sean,once again,you’ve provided a thorough and fair analysis of the federer-nadal matchup at roland garros and I personally thought that nadal really didn’t have it that easy considering the fact that roger made way too many errors and wasn’t able to convert on so many break point opportunities….I don’t think we should read too much into this match once again in terms of what it means for nadal going into wimbledon,but the way he prepares himself mentally really indicates he’s hungry for more than just the french open so he’s going to give it his all to try and arrange a repeat of last year’s wimbledon finals….I think players like hewitt,roddick,dkokovic,gonzalez can all turn out to be real threats to federer in the wimbledon matches if theyr can get their act together and apply some serious mental pressure of federer who really has all the records and a legacy that is still a work in progress….if you remember the davydenko-federer match,federer himself admitted that he might have gotten away with some below par performance…davydenko could so easily have put away federer if his nerves didn’t betray him…anyway,still a lot of tennis to be played at wimbledon before we can hope for a nadal-federer final especially as nadal is going to be more defeatable on grass and has to be counted as the underground anywhere beyond the round of 16…

federer seems to be going the way Borg and Lendl did - Borg could never win at the US open (4 finals and 1 semi), Lendl could never win at Wimbledon (2 finals and 5 semis). Fed so far has 2 finals and 1 semi at the French.

However, lets put it in perspective. At least he is not like Sampras, who made just one semi. Its better to have tried and lost, than never to have had the chance to try.

There is unnecessary hype about Fed and the French Open, and unnecessary criticism of him not winning it. Just because he always comes so close. Sampras never got criticised so much since he always lost early, then everyone was just saying - oh its the french, doesn’t really matter.

Fed knows he gagged. Too bad.

Major burnout risk for Fed. His motivation is all negative from here on out this year - - don’t lose Wimbledon, don’t lose the Open. Not fun.

I really felt sorry for federer.He did play some patches of brilliant tennis but he didnt do it on the important points.Nadal was too strong and too fast for him.First of all in federer’s case there is too much emphasis on him winning the french to be the greatest ever.First of all there is no specific criteria for being the greatest ever.Even if there is in my opinion it should be just a combination of the number of slams and how close the guy has come on his tough surface that should count.I think he already is the greatest ever with 10 grandslams ,8 grand slam finals in a row and 3 more in his favour.Nobody has managed to win on all 4 different surfaces except agassi.When laver and budge won it, it was just grass and clay.So is Agassi the greatest ever? No…and it shows that greatest players need not win all 4 slams….

I think that we are very fortunate to be watching two of the worlds best Tennis players of out times. Federer is a complete tennis player on three of the Grand Slams surface and Nadal has mastered the Clay. When Roger plays Nadal or visa versa they bring the best of out of eachother, which is GREAT TENNIS. And I would like to make mention also that both Roger Federer and Rafael Nadal are Class Champions.

yes, the slam of laver and budge is overrated. 3 of the 4 slams were on grass then. Borg would have won several slams if the US open was on grass!

plus the sport is physically much more demanding today than 30/40 years ago. so much power due to racket techonology, requires so much more speed and stamina. fat players with a paunch sometimes used to reach the quarters and semis of slams in the 60s and 70s.

and its actually nearly 4 different surfaces now, since the AUS open is quite a bit slower than the hard courts of the US open.

BTW, why is agassi NOT the greatest ever? he has won each slam, and reached at least 2 finals on each slam (so it was not a fluke that he won each slam once).

of course, this thing about winning slams is pretty arbitrary. Is anyone old enough to remember Mecir? He was nowhere near winning a slam. Yet in some ways, he was the most talented player of his day. Just like Santoro is today - a memorable player, I’ll never forget him. He just doesn’t have the tools to beat the big hitters. But in his way, he’s just as skilful and as entertaining as Federer. Then take Agassi; certainly a great player. But who was it again he beat in the French? Better to lose to Borg than to win against a robot like Vilas…But then the stats everyone refers when pointing to records don’t make these distinctions.

Agassi beat Andrei Medvedev at the French final when he was down 6-1 6-2 and a rainbreak interrupted play. I don’t know what happened during or after the rain, but it obviously helped Agassi. He would have got to speak to his coach. He came back to win in 5 sets.

It really is unfair to Roger that Pete is often considered the greatest despite having not won the French, while people like John McEnroe insist Fed must win the French in order to take over that title. Even worse is that a lot of commentators were basically, we’ll he’s MERELY one of the greats. Oh yeah, what a failure.

Unlike just about everyone else though, I really wanted Rafa to win. I think he had more that he needed to prove, whereas Roger, no matter what the commentators to say, really doesn’t have to prove anything to anybody. And while nobody is writing Roger off, everyeone was all too ready to write off Rafa had he lost.

So I hope they play each other again in London and New York. And I hope Rafa wins at least one of them. Roger deserves a real rival that challenges him to be a better player year round and not just on clay. Rafa is ready for a breakthrough outside Roland Garros to be that player in both halves of the year. It will enhance both their legacies and benefit those of us lucky enough to witness the Roger-Rafa era.

Also, if I’m not mistaken, Borg played the US Open on grass, clay, and hardcourt. And while he lost on all three surfaces, I believe Jimmy Connors won it on all three.

Take heart Homo Sapiens. We will return. It is difficult to overcome the technologically, chemically enhanced Homo Erectus in a sport that has become a test of brute strength, grunts, gaintesses and clubbing against intelligence, skill and finesse. In time the powers that be will realise that players like Nadal don’t actually have a backhand and that the game isn’t baseball.

Meanwhile, Mark McGwire is rumoured to be the next gen. anthropologically recessed endothil, micro-half-life steroid morphed slugger, using a titanium fibre strung graphite-Superball (pat.) composite racquet, flubber coated footware and energy-transfer fatigues beneath leggings. He sounds like quite a player.

This kid McGwire has attended the higly praised ScreamingModelTennis school but there is gossip that its’ owner and McGwires’ coach had a falling out. Coach Hommer reportedly was overheard yelling “D’uh” at which point Sarapova shouted “OUT”. McGwire being exceptional bright recognized these words and received the schools outstanding Ki-ai award for his ingeuity. Even though it contains 2 syllables he decided his tournament exclamation will be “D’uh-OUT”!

It’s really a matter of “cheating” and simple physics about why Federer may never beat Nadal on clay. I have worked out 2 hours 364 for 5 years at the Y and Nadal could pound me into the ground with one hand. And, no I’m not Barney Fife. You can form your own opinions on what I infer (testing for X,Y,Z at ?ppm). Clay being a plyable surface “springs” the ball to a higher point than other tennis surfaces. From this height a player can use a full force baseball style swing and keep his line drive in court. Not only that but he is accorded better control since his complete torso is involved. His opponent can only hope to reach the ball and not even consider making a play.

It’s not really cheating or the rules wouldn’t allow a two fisted grip. I for one think this grip should be outlawed from professional tennis, but then I’d like to see wooden racquets make a come back. Faster is not always more enjoyable!

mick

Sean,

thanks for the article and your fair analysis. One thing that I have to say( just because you often listen) is that why do we use the term “animal”? Just because Rafa, the 21-year old kid is so good on clay? doesn’t lose to the 25-year old Federer almighty?

Rafa plays intelligent tennis. He picks his shots. He holds perfectly at important moments. He is becoming a better player, so let’s find some (non-offensive) word that describes him as the champion he is.

I agree that the conditions in HAmburg with the best of 3 suited Federer much better than the fast clay of RG. Besides it was a NAdal day. Sunny and warm that allowed the ball bounce everywhere and it was a best of 5.

We should give Federer credit for not giving up. It is almost impossible to win even a set off NAdal in RG. But fed is trying , at the expense of huge disappointments like this. I can’t imagine how he felt during the award ceremony and then reading all the criticism pouring on him, telling him to do slice, dropshot, this and that next time….

I wrote this somewhere else, but want to repeat it here. We are in an ear where the No1 has over 7500 points and No 2 has over 5200 points. when was the last time this happened?

And who can tell Fed can’t be the greatest of all times if he wins 6-7 more slams? even if not including FO? He is doing much better than Sampras and I totally agree that comparison to Laver and Budge is just irrelevant.

well.. why cant Fed be the the greatest of all -time… just because he has probabaly the greatest clay courter to contend with during his era. Whom did Agassi lose to in his french open finals??? Gomez and courier.. and finally overcame Medvedev when he reached the age of 30. Well.. that doesnt make him the greatest. he dint have someone like Nadal who wins alomost everything thats on clay.

And Federer - Nadal matches on clay always go the distance (except for the 2 straight setters this year)

We should give credit to Federer atleast because he dint play too defensively and really took the attack to Nadal … even though it resulted in far too many un-forced errors and finally lost on his terms.

Well.. i always keep wondering why doesnt Federer try playing slice instead of top-spin to Nadal’s backhand.. because anything above waist high, Nadal just hits hit flat cross-court with his 2-fister. And when every Fed slices it to Nadal’s forehand… Nadal can really put some heavy spin of the ball and get the ball away from Federer.

Anyway.. we are witnessing a great rivalry … something which is not one-sided with Fed winning 3 of their last 5 matches(losing only on clay).. even though overall H2H favours Nadal because of his earlier wins on clay.

And its also came as a surprise when Fed said “I did the same thing to Roddick in Wimbledon,” Because that was exactly what i had feared before the finals thinking that its turing out just like Roddick’s run from 2003 to 2005… just hoping that it doesnt turn of that way for Fed …anyway … great chmapions have also lost many great matches.

Federer is not the greatest of all time. He has faced a weak field of players. Who were his rivals over the last few years? Hewitt, Roddick???
Sampras, Agassi, McEnroe, Becker, Edberg, Lendl, Courier- they all would have beaten Hewitt and Roddick. Plus, back then, there were players who had all kinds of different styles. Sampras was facing players like Krijek, Rafter, Agassi- all had very unique ways of playing. Now, all the players play the similar game: from the baseline.
Think of the players that Lendl had to face on a regular basis:
-Wilander
-McEnroe
-Becker
-Connors
-Edberg
-Chang
And vice-versa. They all had to face each other. Federer is great, but not the greatest. Not his fault he’s playing a weak field.

Samprazzz

we should have a scale or a criterion for the greatest of all times. we can’t just throw thoughts that Fed is a lesser player than sampras. you can’t say the field is weak, just because Fed or Nadal don’t let them play their games.

maybe you can take the highest ranking points of a player and normalize it according to his opponents somehow. Right now the criteria is the number of slams, ranking points and weeks at No 1 and Fed easily passes many GOAT candidates on those.

Lets put it this way….If roger wasnt playing in today’s era who would be no.1…..Rafa.And why would he be number 1? Because he is the fittest player on tour.Thats exactly what todays tennis is all about.It’s not about how well you can hit the ball but how hard you can hit the ball that matters.Or atleast thats what gives players like rafa the edge over his opponents.I guess before tennis players were athletic and now athletes are turning out to be tennis players.It’s sad to see roger getting thrashed just because he does not have a physique like Nadal’s.

Let us suppose that federer was not playing in this era.Then who would be number 1 in the world.It would be rafael nadal.And why would he be number 1 in the world?Because he is the fittest player on tour.Tennis has really become like boxing these days.The stronger you are the better.It was sad to see roger getting thrashed by nadal just because roger does not have a physique like nadal’s.The only way nadal can be beaten on clay……..
Bring out the strongest man in the world and teach him how to hit the ball as hard as he can and to serve well.
It’s funny how serena williams was saying Nadal was an animal on clay.What was serena williams all about?
She was also another animal during her days.Maybe another species.

sorry i posted twice…..I didnt my first message immediately after i posted it.

I can’t really agree with you Samprazzzz. Is the fact that he has no rivals supposed to be a bad thing? Those players are great players, their just not good enough. I mean, put them against each other and you’ll get some amazing matches! I’m not saying that he is THE best of all time, but you only have to watch his calm behaviour and spectacular shots to see he is something special.

I dont think Fed’s opposition is any worse or better than any other era. But He’s beating every claycourter other than Nadal and thats a huge achievement. He’s run into the one of the best claycourters of all time and come up short. Not a big deal in my opinion. So I think he takes the title of being the greatest rather well. Also think how dominant he’s been on other surfaces.

BTW, Ryan I am afraid your knowledge of tennis is truly embarrassing, in the light of your comments. Fit Rafa might be, but the superbly top-spun forehands, the deep shots arent just about Strength. The fabulous spun forehand down the line that was well out and Flew in, during yesterday’s is proof of that.

And his serve has come a long way (He’s just 21, something we always tend to forget). Its not a flat smashed serve but an excellent kick serve. There is considerable skill involved. He has a super drop shot too. Fed’s backhands are perhaps the hardest hit on the tour(other than davy). Rafa doesent actually put that much power into his forehands. He uses it to run the opponent deep. Thats tactics in case you understand such things exist in tennis. Fed’s retrieval skills are perhaps just below Rafa’s. What price the fitness then?

And “Bring on the strongest….”
Is this some sport you invented Ryan because it sure as hell aint workin’ in tennis?

i also wonder as did Tejuz why Federer didn’t play much backhand slice. Especially in the beginning of the 1st set, Fed is almost hitting topspin at all shots thrown to his backhand; times where I feel he would have normally played the safer slice. It’s as if he’s trying to prove that he is capable of trading topspin groundstrokes with a double backhanded person (where it is generally accepted that the double-backhand is a more controlled and stable shot compared with single-handed backhand).
All in all, I think he did a good job with his top spin backhand, one of the best if not the best in today’s game.

I am also surprised that Fed claims he felt he was less ‘overwhelmed’ by Nadal in the finals last year than this year. I thought he held up better against Nadal this year than last. We all know that, had he converted just one of his numerous break points in the first set, things may have turned out differently. Yeah, I know
the match had ended and I can say whatever I want to but one can’t help wondering about this possiblity especially when Fed had so many break points in his favour.

Sure I wanted Fed to win but I also gave a 60-40 chance in favour of Nadal given the latter’s prowess on clay.
The consolation for me in Fed’s loss is his attitude and taking everthing in positive stride.

In his own words:
“I feel my window (to win FO) is definitely not getting smaller,”
“The French Open has been very good to me the last few years. And I’m confident that I can win here, and that’s the most important. If I’m going to do it, time will tell.”
“Not winning it now but later only makes victory sweeter” (or something to that effect)

well.. its nice to see both Nadal and Federer coming out in defence of the other during thier post match conference when questions are raised about their greatness and their inablity to win on their worst surface. Even good to see Nadal’s uncle Toni applauding a breathtaking shot from Federer backhand. They really appreciate the other’s game and certainly take their losses in their stride.

I am a Fed fan.. and wud love if he wins all his matches against Nadal. But sometimes i feel these losses against Nadal keep Federer on his ground and make him seek for improvement. This loss against Nadal will only make Federer all the more hungry for his 5th wimbledon title.

Losses in consecutive finals will only make the eventual win all the more sweeter. Goran Ivanesevic lost 3 finals before lifting his 1st wimbledon. Agassi lost 2 consecutive FOs before winning 9 yrs later. Sampras’s 5th US Opne title came after he lost 2 finals (safin and hewitt) which made it all the more sweeter. Fed will have more chances at French Open than Nadal at wimbledon for sure. If Nadal faces couple of big servers on his side of the draw… am pretty sure he wouldnt reach too far. Lucky, he dint have any during his last stint at wimby.

Tejuz: Well said, well said!

Samps….maybe it is your knowledge of tennis thats pathetic.I have seen a lot of times when nadal just uses raw power on his forehand wing.So please dont give me that bulls**t that he just gives it a lot of spin.Federer could have beaten any great clay courter out there even if the guy uses a lot of spin on his forehands.He could have even beaten nadal had he not been so strong.Besides top spin does not work as well on other surfaces as it does on clay.Then how the hell did nadal reach wimbledon final last year.Dont tell me he has federer’s skills on grass as well.It’s just his raw power that gets to his opponents plus maybe he’s determined as hell.Federer can probably never beat nadal on clay.Thats because he can never be as strong as nadal.No matter how many slams nadal wins he can never be as talented as federer and if nadal turns out to be the greatest ever then it means that tennis has become a joke.

To Zola: calling Nadal an animal can be either abusive or complimentary - depends on the context. When commentators like Peter Fleming call Nadal an animal, they are smiling, shaking their head at the impossibility of it all. Consider the phenomenon of Nadal. You couldn’t invent him! You couldn’t dream him up! He makes Jimmy Connors look like a fairy. And -sorry, Ryan - he is amazingly skilful, too. And, Tejuz, just what big servers did you have in mind? Roddick might beat Nadal, but I wouldn’t bet on it. I think Nadal is likely to claw his way through to the Wimbledon final, and Federer is likely, but not certain, to beat him.

8 Straight Grand Slam Finals in a row is the reason why Roger is the greatest of all time.

Nadal is a beast, his season is over, just like last year.

Give him another couple of years on clay. He has to play at 100% to win. 90%, and he loses to many, even on clay. run run run, can’t do that for too long.

Oh sorry! I meant the Backhand!Typo! The forehand has massive power no doubt! The backhand is often quite a defensive shot in terms of power and is hit deep.

Oh btw Ryan, Nadal is Not as skillful as Fed no doubt. But he is still Very skillful, more than most of the players. BTW have you seen Borg’s game? You’ll find there the vestiges of what Rafa is now. Tennis will be a joke if Rafa wins loads of slams? I disagree and find your rhetoric rather silly. If Borg can be one of the greatest, so can Rafa. And he’s Only 21! There is no way of telling what he will or wont do.

Actually what changes for Rafa is his determination. Its Both physical and mental. He makes up for that there. Roger’s flat forehands are hit with as much venom as Rafa’s. How many people hit harder than Fed both forehand and backhand other than Rafa(who’s backhand is weaker)?

And its likely that Rafa wont make the final but is it really on evidence of last year? I mean WHICH player troubled Fed in last year’s Wimby other than Rafa? More than the road to the finals, it was the final itself which was a sign.

Also, the mutual respect in the players is great to see.

well.. big servers like Roddick, Murray, Djokovic, Berdych, Blake, Youzhny, Safin, Phillipoussis .. any of ‘em can beat Nadal on grass.. not to mention even on hard courts. These guys would love to even get a set of Federer in every alternate grass/hard matches. None of them came in the path of Nadal last year in Wimbledon.The only notable player that he beat on the way was Baghdatis who was overwhelmed by the occassion. Well.. yes, Nadal did take the attack to Federer after the first bagel set and all credit to him.. but well, Fed was on a 5 match losing streak to this guy.. and it certainly played a little bit. Since then, Fed has beaten Nadal in straight sets on 2 more occassions, hard and clay.

Even a guy like Ivo Karlovic or Mahut could beat Nadal on grass.

Fed’s opponents last year were Gasquet, Henman, Mahut, Ancic, Berdych etc.. any of them could beat Nadal on grass.

If he reaches the quarterfinals this year again, i’ll agree that he has what it takes to go all the way on grass. Lets see…

But well.. that doesnt make his achievements on clay any lesser .. hez motivated and willing to improve his game. He still has lots of years ahead of him.. but i just wonder.. like how Federer pointed out.. if Nadal tries to change his game, he might become beatable on clay as well.

Once again, Davydenko is getting the short shrift in a discussion. As was pointed out, Fed lost to Nadal because Nadal is better than he is on clay, but this talk about how poorly Fed played against Davydenko is garbage. Davydenko almost beat Nadal in Rome. He has serious game on clay, taking the ball earlier than anyone else and aiming for the lines. Unlike Djokovic, a tremendous talent who is not ready to win a grand slam title, Davydenko probably would have taken a set from Nadal if they had played.

Federer is the greatest, no matter what the commentators say. Commentators were players in their times. They could not achieve what Roger Federer has achieved. So they must not lower Roger’s superior status. They should look unbiased at the history and compare Roger with the rest. One will find that Roger is the greatest. Does not matter if he gets French open or not. Remember it is the quality of ease with which he removes others in the circuit, says how great he is. While it is easy for me to say but it is important that Roger must not look too much into French Open defeat. He now must gear up and take the other three slams which he is more than capable of doing. Good Luck Roger and thankyou for showing us the quality of tennis you produce.

I have a tough time considering Roger the “Best Ever” if there is another player on tour that has an 8-3 winning record on him. Rafa has won on the hard courts against Roger and played in the final at Wimbledon on grass. Think about it?

Tennis has always been a physical sport regardless of what era you compare. I don’t if anyone remembers Todd Nelson, but he makes Rafa look like Johnny Mac. It still takes brains to win tennis matches. Unfortunately, not to many players can do that. Even Roger has a tough time making the necessary adjustments against Rafa. How different did Roger play Davy than Rafa?

I’m going to say it and I’ll probably get hate mail. I think that Roger is farther from being considered the greatest ever.

I have a really difficult time even considering Roger the “Greatest Ever.” Rafa has an 8-3 winning record on him, has beat him on the concrete, and met up with at the Wimby Final. When is the last time you saw a Spaniard in a Wimbledon final? They are usaully unseeded and boycott the tournament. Rafa owns Fed and the kid is only 21. Sorry Anis or is it Mirka?

haha lol well said jason aufrey

Tejuz Says:
well.. big servers like Roddick, Murray, Djokovic, Berdych, Blake, Youzhny, Safin, Phillipoussis .. any of ‘em can beat Nadal on grass.. not to mention even on hard courts.
*****

Tejuz,

was Indian Wells played on clay or was that not Roddick losing to Rafa ?

Phillipousis lost to Rafa in USopen last year.

How long since you last watched tennis?

Surely Nadal beat Phillipoussis Wimbledon 2005 first round? He looked stronger than Hewitt at Queens last year until he had to withdraw through injury. Hewitt went on to win the tournament. Borg wasn’t by any stretch of the imagination a grass court player. And yet he won 5 times in a row, when grass really was grass and everyone (except Borg) did serve and volley. How did he do it? Well, apart from being an unusually good tennis player, he had this indomitable will, which primarily allowed him to concentrate for long periods. That’s what Nadal can do, and Federer can’t - which is one reason the Swiss is more popular. The ability to concentrate for very long periods in any field of activity is most unusual, and we tend to regard people who can with suspicion. Of course if someone like Berdych has a good day, he will beat Nadal - but how often is Berdych (one of my favourite players, incidentally, another Safin, in bad ways as well as good) on top form? The likelihood is Nadal will wear him down. If Roddick is on top form - and he was looking formidable against Stepaneck today - then I would back him to beat Nadal on grass, but nobody else except Fed. I would also back Roddick to beat Federer if Fed hasn’t managed to get his defeat at the French out of his system. When Fed has not been at his best, Roddick has come extremely close to beating him. b.t.w. figures, as always, can be misleading. It’s true Nadal has 8 - 3 winning record on Federer. But that is partly because Federer has been good enough to reach more claycourt finals than Nadal has been able to reach non-claycourt finals - and of course finals are the only place they can meet. Worth a little ponder that one, don’t you think, Jason Alfrey?

Oh, U.S.Open was it, that Nadal beat Philly - I remember the match, but for some reason couldn’t remember when it was or even where it was. I stand corrected, Zola

Grendel, I agree Nadal has the will and ability to concentrate for long periods. Also he has that intensity which Fed sometimes lacks or doesnt show.. which is why hez the best clay court player right now. Clay he has the time to wear down his opponents into submission… but in grass its all about Serves, service returns, slice and hitting winners rather than just counter punching. Also he isnt able to slide as he does on clay which makes his movement slower. Yest I watched his wimb finals with Fed from last year.. he was not able to move well on grass, slipped a few times and wasnt always in control of his shots.

If he had the draw that Fed has last year.. do u still bet that he would have reached the finals?? I sure wouldnt.. Someone like Ancic or Berdych wud have surely taken him down.. or even Tim Henman or gasquet.

grendel,

Roger is No one on every other court than clay. and would have been on clay if Rafa was not there. I try to pull away from Roger-Fara discussions. It is pointless to diminish the achievements of these champions.

Clay is a hard place to start and many clay courters did not even bother to play on hard. So , Rafa is trying and so far he has been better each year. I hope he stays healthy and then we can see how far he can go.

The mental strength and ability to concentrate, I am with you and I think Fed can do it to. Just against Rafa there is too much pressure. He gets one break and he loses it. It happened in Shanghai too. But then he pulled it together. In FO , it was harder.

On top of that there is this nonsense pressure of GOAT . As if Fed has achieved nothing if he doesn’t win the French Open. I bet if he could play with a more relaxed mind he could give Rafa more trouble on clay. Not that I want him to, but that’s what I think.

Zola.. i am sure Nadal will win wimbledon someday… but i dont think it will be in the coming few years. He is still young and will certainly improve as long as he stays healthy and also probabaly learn to shorten his points. But i just wonder if that would make his clay court game suffer. somehow i feel… its a very difficult task to win both French and Wimbledon at the same time. Borg acheived it for many years. Fed and Nadal came to within 2 sets of ahciving it last year .. Lets see if they can match it again this year. But i feel its unlikely. Nadal was certainly looking a bit tired during the final. I feel he should have skipped Queens just like Fed skipped Halle. Even someone like Fed alomost came close to losing few times in last year’s Halle championships. No wonder he pulled out of this one.

“If he had the draw that Fed has last year.. do u still bet that he would have reached the finals?? ”

if Fed had Rafa’s draw at French, would he still reach the final??

I’m a 4.5-5.0 player with a 1 handed backhand. I am comfortable with both a top spin backhand or a slice depending on my opponent’s shot. I used to play exclusively on hard courts until last November. Last year during the French Open, I wondered why Federer did not use his great slice backhand more. After playing now for 7 months on Har-Tru almost exclusively, which is faster than red clay, I get it. Unless you hit the slice backhand perfectly, it just sits up for your opponent begging him to hit a winner. I play probably 70/30 top spin to slice on clay and the reverse on hard courts. Federer was hitting top spin to avoid balls sitting up for Nadal. It is not easy for a righty to hit good slices against the heavy lefty top spin that Nadal generates. If Fed floats it ever so slightly, he most likely loses the point. I thought Fed had a good strategy in this match by really working the Nadal backhand like never before, but Nadal is just better on clay. Fed will need a Nadal injury to win the French.

hoha… comon mate.. “if Fed has Nadal’s draw at French” … well.. Fed has reached the finals of French twice already and also a semi previously.

This year he has beaten the likes of Devydenko, Robredo, Youzhny this year…

Last year - Nalbandian, Ancic, Berdych

2005 - Moya, Gonzalez, Almagro

Most of them are Clay specialists … he has also beaten the likes of Ferrero, Ferrer, Moya, Almagro time and again on clay even in other tournaments. Reached 6 finals out iof 7 clay tournaments in last 2 years and lost only to Nadal in 5 of them. So i guess u just cant question his game on clay.

I have already stated that if Nadal again reaches the quarters(if not semis) this year in wimbledon and Queens .. i agree he will be a threat on grass in future but no way the same threat that Federer is on clay. One dream run can be a fluke just like Brojkman’s run til the semi’s last year .. luck of a draw. But if Nadal does it time and again on grass… then i agree. Otherwise.. he still has a lot to prove.

Mark.. i agree that using a slice on clay is not as effective as it is on hard or grass court. but then its always good to put in some variation in the game.. especially agaisnt Nadal just to disrupt his rythm. I believe, Fed should have used a lil bit more of slice.. along with his is top-spin backhand .. escpecially down the line to Nadal’s backhand rather than going cross court to his forehand. I know.. its tough to slice a Nadal forehand… but then if someone is capable of it.. it has to be federer.

A topspin backhand comes upto waist high for Nadal which is in striking zone with his 2-hander. But the slice stays a lil lower which would make Nadal reach for the ball and really cant hit it back flat.

Also Fed shud have exmployed some slice drop shots on Nadal’s backhand corner rather than his forehand corner…

Mark
what a nice insight. I am more of an observer and a casual player. so I enjoyed reading your analysis. I know in RG the topspin makes it almost impossible for Federer to hit the ball. I wondered why he wouldn’t go around it and hit a forehand. I think Nadal is just so aggressive that makes it impossible. About the slice, Rafa is very good at hitting a winner off his shoelaces. Hewitt said after his match with Rafa that on RG it will be very hard to beat Rafa because the ball “flies everywhere”.

Tejuz,
you wrote:***as long as he stays healthy and also probabaly learn to shorten his points. But i just wonder if that would make his clay court game suffer***

I think if Rafa makes a radical change for the case of grass or hard courts, his game might suffer. but the small changes that he madeduring last year, actually made his clay court game more aggressive and helped him finish points earlier. he did not give away a set in FO and won very decisively. So, I think he is learning.

Roger is doing a fantastic job at not over-playing and has been able to stay injury-free, which is very smart and part of the reason he is such a great champion. On the other hand, Rafa needs more time on grass otherwise he will be wacked at the first round in Wimbledon. Roger is a natural on grass, Rafa is not. So hopefully after Wimbledon he should take some time off.

Zola, i agree Nadal is good at hitting winners off his shoe laces.. but thats from his forehand wing where he viciously top-spin the ball over the net. But if its low on his back hand side.. he cant create the same spin with his 2-hander and would marely try to loop the ball back in play and Fed could gain a upper-hand in the rally. Anyway.. easier said than done.. its very tough to slice a ball which is flying away from you.

Well.. Nadal certainly looks tired after the French Open final.. and the amount of effort and concentration that he puts in his matches will surely take its toll in the remainder of the season. Only the fact that, hez ahead of the race by a fair margin and a slight oppurtunity to overtake Fed for year end No-1 might motivate Nadal for the remainder of the season. But then Fed would be as motivated to deny Nadal that chance just as he was denied the French Open.

Lets see .. its a still a long season ahead.. and well Fed can always choose to play Paris Masters and other tournaments which he missed the last couple of years if hez in desperate need of points. But looks like this year is gonna be closer than the last few years and Fed might just edge ahead in the race.

or we could even see Djokovic overtake Nadal for the No 2 spot if Nadal burns out.

Samprazzz,

I am personally a huge fan of pete sampras and as amazing as the guy was,I have to wonder if he could ever elevate his game to the unbelievable standards that roger has so successfully done…sampras was an exceptional player who was basically a “creature of habit” doing his routine stuff and surely never demonstrated the capability or the unique skills federer displays..you make the argument that sampras played in an era chracterized by greater competition,but looking at federer’s game you can pretty much imagine he would have killed almost any one of those guys you mentioned in your list…agassi even said that you could be playing well and still lose a set to sampras 6-4 while with federer you could easily lose it 6-2…that statement itself speaks volumes about the true difference in quality between sampras and federer…since 2005,federer is,if I am not incorrect 199-7 against everyone else,and could it just be the cold truth that his superiority in talent has lead to him bullying all his opponents…look at what he has utterly destroyed players like roddick,hewitt,nalbandian, and pretty much everyone else he’s played barring nadal who seems to be a rarity in a field of tennis players whose overall confidence and skill level have been deeply affected by the demolition subjected by federer….these guys throw everything they have at federer and still they come up short big time barely making an impact and not even consistently managing to take a set from this guy…..critics point out federer’s struggle to win at Roland Garros,but he is so consistent and has been to the finals in back to back years and to the semi’s the year before and all 3 defeats have come against nadal…that surely indicates that barring nadal,he’s disposing of every other tennis player,clay-court specialist or not…sampras was as good as it got while federer was not in the scene,but looking at federer’s amazing records and his consistent exhibition of pure talents like no other really makes a huge statetment as the best tennis player ever…it’s not if but only a matter of time before every player and critic acknowledges that FACT….

i agree with zola. i don’t know where all this talk has come from about having to win on all four surfaces to be considered the greatest of all time - particulary when they are comparing the possible federer slam to men who won all four on fewer surfaces.

this is whipped up in the press and they latch on to it and all the questions federer gets faced with is ‘are you still good even if you don’t win the french?’ (or variations on that theme). for a male player to win 10 grand slams in three years - who knows when that will happen again?

imagine your head if all you ever got asked were questions that asked you about your complete-ness and effectiveness as a player, even though you are dominating the sport, save for one tournament. at some point it has to get to you.

i think roger played the french this year with way too much loaded on his mind and it showed.

good for rafa though for his strong play and three in a row. the thing about sport is that someone has to win and someone has to lose…every time.

Probabaly we should say it the other way round… that having beaten Federer(the 2nd best claycorter of this era and the world no 1) on all the three occassions Nadal should be considered as one of the best clay courters of all time..

But then.. just because Federer wasnt able to beat the best claycourter on his favourite surface at RG shouldnt diminish Federer’s acheivement…

12 consecutive Grandslam semis, 8 cosecutive grandslam finals … 16 finals of the 17 in 2006, 24 consecutive finals won, …….. wow… those are some amazing records.

and all that most of uslook at is that he wasnt able to overcome a guy who had a record 81 match winning streak on clay on his favoured surface.

“In time the powers that be will realise that players like Nadal don’t actually have a backhand and that the game isn’t baseball.”

You’d think Federer would exploit that by hitting forehands to his backhand wouldn’t you…

even when he was the guy who snapped that streak … in astounding fashion… a bagel set 6-0.

“Lets put it this way….If roger wasnt playing in today’s era who would be no.1…..Rafa.And why would he be number 1? Because he is the fittest player on tour.”

If that were the case, then Davydenko would be #1.

well.. Roger is the reason why i started taking interest in tennis again … after the Becker-Edberg-early Sampras era.

and Nadal-Fed rivalry is the reason why i started talking interest in clay court tennis.

Oh please!!!Giner…. Are you telling me that Davydenko is the fittest player on tour.He’s so wiry and he’s just 70 kg.He himself stated that he can’t run a lot because he will end up being even more wiry.Nadal is the fittest player on tour with 85kg and a 6 pack.And to samps…ok lets see if rafa can become the greatest player ever like borg.But he cannot be that if he keeps winning only the french.By the way in last year wimbledon, federer had a 1-6 head to head against nadal.And he probably did not even remember how he beat rafa that one time.That is why that wimbledon final appeared a lot tougher for federer than it actually was.But now their head to head is 4-8.And he knows how to beat him on other surfaces and maybe he could do it in 3 sets this time.For federer doing the slice against nadal on clay…….look no matter what the guy does he will lose to rafa on clay as long as rafa is not physically or mentally exhausted..Plain and simple.Otherwise how the hell did rafa get away with 16 out of 17 break points in their french open final.Federer is someone who gets away with break points if he is given a slightest chance.So like Wilander said there is not way federer is winning against rafa on clay no matter what he does.And please dont say hamburg because nadal was physically exhausted in that match.

Ryan you have a reason for everything in favour of Federer apparently. “Otherwise how the hell did rafa get away with 16 out of 17….” Deja vu in the Fed-Davy match?
Your general notions of what Fed “does normally” are irrelevant when Rafa is considered from past experience. Fed against Rafa on clay is no different from Davy against Fed. In each case one of them is mentally stronger. Fed did not save all the breakpoints against Fed, Davy fluffed many. So what u are saying is “If Davy was slightly more fitter, physically and mentally…Fed would have had it…” right? The Fed-Davy match inspite of being in straight sets was closer than the Rafa-Fed match, in my opinion.

Also, regarding Rafa’s backhand, its an excellent defensive shot and against Fed he hits it back very deep to Fed’s backhand which makes it very effective.Also he makes few errors on the backhand unlike Fed In fact everytime Fed would hit one to Rafa’s backhand he’d hit it deep to Fed’s backhand usually in the corner making it decently effective even though there isnt a lot of spin on it. He does hit quite a few crosscourt winners of it.

Federer and Nadal’s H2H records against top 26 players

Davydenko 8-0 2-0
Djokovic 4-0 4-1
roddick 13-1(9-0) 2-1
Gonzalez 10-0 3-3
Robredo 8-0 4-0
Blake 6-0, 0-3
Murray 1-1, 0-1
Haas 8-2 (7-0), 2-0
Gasquet 5-1 , 3-0
Ljubicic 11-3, 3-1
Berdych 4-1 2-3
Youzhny 10-0, 4-3
ferrer 7-0, 4-1
hewitt 11-7(9-0), 3-4
canas 1-3, 3-0
baghdatis 4-0, 3-0
Ferrero 8-3(6-0), 5-1
Chela 4-0, 3-1
Moya 7-0, 4-2
Niemenen 7-0, 3-0
Ancic 4-1, 2-1
Safin 7-2, 0-0
Nalbandian 8-6 (8-1), 0-0

The ones in the brackets denote the H2H since start of 2004. That explains why Fed is the best ever …

who cares. everyone knows Fed is the best anyway.

Anyone think anyones got a chance at wibledon apart from Fed???
Roddick or Hewitt maybe? Or is it 100% win for Federer?

Moya! Certainly Roddick or Hewitt. But, I’ve just been watching Nadal at Queens. He looks even more at home on grass than he did last year. Dunno how he does it, make the transition from clay to grass so quickly, but he does! It’ll take someone with a very cool nerve indeed to beat him.I said last year, after watching him at Queens, that he was a good outside bet to win Wimbledon. Everyone laughed. I now think he’s one of the hot favourites. I say this with no pleasure - but evidence is evidence, and cannot be denied. And I don’t think you’ll hear too many people laughing

New poster here, so I’ll keep my first post short and simple. No one is unbeatable on any surface. Just as Federer certainly had a chance against Nadal at the French, Nadal has a chance against Federer at Wimbledon. That being said, if I had to bet my mortgage on Federer or the field, I think I’d take Federer at this point.

Tejuz,
you just come back to comparing Rafa and Fed and saying how great Fed is. Who is disputing that? The ranking points are there.

I am just amazed that some Fed fans can’t take the FO defeat as Fed himself does. He wants to come back and fight and tha’s why he is a champion. So is Rafa who wants to take chances in wimbledon. If Fed just said he didn’t want to play in FO or Rafa said he didn’t want hard courts, their lives would have been much easier.

I am inclined not to speculate. Let’s see results and then talk about them. I don’t care if Rafa is ever No 1 or wins wimbledon etc. I only care that he is healthy and plays well and won his first match on grass. i want to follow tennis the way he plays. point by point, match by match!

Tejuz: What’s Feds H2H against Nadal? Not too good is it?

BTW I didn’t know davis cup matches were counted

tejuz nadal-murray is 1-0 not 0-1, he beat him at the Aussi Open for the first time…get ur facts straight

All these players (Pete, Roger, Nadal)are great champions with different attributes. However, I’m just having a difficult time crowning someone “The Greatest Ever” when there is another player on tour who owns him. I know there are a lot of bloggers out there, explain it to me.?

“but well, Fed was on a 5 match losing streak to this guy.. and it certainly played a little bit. Since then, Fed has beaten Nadal in straight sets on 2 more occassions, hard and clay.”

Fed has NOT beaten Nadal in straight sets on clay. He did win in straights in Shanghai, but those were two very close sets.

“Oh please!!!Giner…. Are you telling me that Davydenko is the fittest player on tour.He’s so wiry and he’s just 70 kg.He himself stated that he can’t run a lot because he will end up being even more wiry.”

He plays more tennis than ANY player on the tour, and never takes a week’s break. Everyone else pulls the fake injury excuses to give themself rest. If that isn’t fit, I don’t know what is.

hmmm H2H between Fed and Nadal is
clay is 1-6 ( 8 - 18 sets)
non-clay 3-2 ( 9 - 5 sets)

so total - 17 sets - 23 sets …. which is not a huge differece really …

And since last years french open loss… their head to head record is

clay 1 - 2 (3 - 6)
non-clay 2 - 0 (5 - 1)
Total 3 - 2 (8 - 7)

so.. its not totally one-sided as it seems .. and certainly doesnt mean that Nadal owns Federer.

how about Blake, Berdych or Hewitt owning Nadal …

Coming to Hewitt.. Hewitt and Nalbandian certainly owned Federer during their intial years… but look at the way the tables have turned .. 9-0 and 8-1 to fed in their last 9 matches.

So am pretty sure… If Nadal gets better on other surfaces and reach finals consistently.. we will see Fed overturning the H2H record soon.

btw.. just got a chance to watch the French Final again. This time was more concentrating on shot selection..

Everytime Fed sliced to Nadal’s back hand corner he won the point or gained a upper hand in the rally .. atleast 11 out of 12 points he won ‘em in the whole match. Nadal couldnt control the short slice to his back hand side or he would run around it to hit a forehand which wud leave the court wide open for Fed to hit a winner.

Wish he had done more of it…

Sampras was “owned” by so many clay courters, its not even funny. take bruguera for example. so by that reasoning, sampras was nowhere near the greatest ever.

actually he wasn’t, so no dispute there. otherwise he wouldn’t have been so miserable on clay against ordinary clay courters.

Nadal, on clay, is borg like. only on clay though. mcenroe never faced borg on clay, he is thankful for that. if mcenroe had met borg twice on clay for every non clay match, ….

Tejuz, what an interesting comment. Let’s assumne your analysis is correct; d’you think Fed is aware of the situation? Do players go over videos of their matches? You wouldn’t think they had the patience. I suppose that’s what coaches are for. Since Fed hasn’t got a coach, perhaps you should send him an email……