Electronic Line-calling Malfunction Costs Ljubicic at Indian Wells Tennis
by Staff | March 19th, 2009, 6:01 pm
  • 45 Comments

A replay call during a match between Andy Murray and Ivan Ljubicic on Thursday at the event in Indian Wells brought into question the accuracy of the “Hawkeye” instant video replay line-calling system.


Serving at 5-7, 4-4, ad out, Ljubicic apparently won the point when Murray’s high lob landed wide near the net. Murray then signaled to use one of his replay challenges, which digitally showed the ball landing in the middle of the line. The actual review showed the ball landing well wide.

Upon a second look, it appeared the replay system acknowledged the second bounce when the high lob originally bounced wide, but the second bounce landed on the line.

After losing the replay point, Ljubicic lost the next point to lose his serve, walking to his chair for the changeover while the Indian Wells crowd booed the electronic line call. Ljubicic had argued to no avail with the chair umpire that the make the electronic line-calling system had made was “ridiculous.”


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45 Comments for Electronic Line-calling Malfunction Costs Ljubicic at Indian Wells Tennis

zola Says:

but can’t the umpire rule out the hawk-eye?

I remeber this happened in Rafa-Youzhny match in Dubai and also in a Mauresmo match. I think sometimes also with the intense sun, it can give errors.

Rafa proposed to try hawk eye on french open ( or clay courts) to see how it works. I think that would be a good way to calibrate the hawk eye.


tenisbebe Says:

It has been shown that shadows tend to fowl up HE’s readings although it didn’t look like there were shadows interfering in this shot.


zola Says:

I didn’t see the match, so I don’t know about this call, but there have been very mixed views about hawk-eye.

I think if the umpire or the TV camera can clealy see the call is wrong ( and even on hard courts the ball can leave a mark), maybe it is good to over rule it. Something else for ATP to work on.


margot Says:

Players will always get bad breaks, life isn’t perfect and nor is tennis, nor is technology coome to that. And I was really pleased to see Andy M raise his game just when it mattered. Still areas of his game he can improve too, which is exciting and yes, he drives me nuts at times but hooray it’s a new kid on the block!


jane Says:

Yeah, I thought that the umpire could’ve overruled that shot, but the umpire said that he “has to go with the machine.” But you’d think if they could see taped replays they could’ve done something. It was surely a crucial point. In a way it’s probably good that Murray got broken back to put them back on even ground for the tiebreak. I felt better about his win then.


Ra Says:

That wast just HORRIBLE. I mean, I’d have been absolutely shocked if Ljubicic had bested Murray in the end, but I really can’t decide if that makes the bad call easier or tougher to swallow.


Von Says:

tenisbebe:

It was the same ‘useless’ umpire who didn’t over-rule the linesmen a couple of days ago and then he did the same in Roddick v. Ferrer. He sits there like a bump on a log, staring into space.

HE has messed up many times before, but Roddick/Tsonga in Paris was the worst.

Even though I’m happy Andy M. won, I’m so sorry for Ljub since today was his birthday and he also wanted to make this tourney a good one because it bordered on the deciding thought in his mind whether he should retire from tennis altogether.


sar Says:

Did anyone else notice the Gimelstob love fest with Murray today? I mean gushing. At the end Gimelstob interviewed Murray on court and asked how he liked going to dinner with him the other night and the ride home. Hmmm I get the feeling that the new PR firm Murray hired to get him known globally is starting right now in the US with Gim.
During the match,Sam Gore remarked to Gim that Murray was trying to overtake #3 and Gim said he knew it would happen before Wimbledon.
Also, they showed a graphic with the names of the top 10 players and Sam asked Gim to comment on their backhands. Gim went down the list commenting on everyone of the names EXCEPT Djok. I guess the push is in to “shun” Djok on Murray’s behalf. Any comments?


Von Says:

sar:

I saw that chart they showed on FSN and heard some of their comments — I was half asleep most of the time, but Gimel sure is on a roll to promote Andy M. The interview at the end with Gimel’s mention of dinner and the ride home, is Gimel’s way of trying to become familiar with the players and leading the public to believe he’s so personally acquainted with the players. I’d bet he initiates the dinner get-togethers.

Last night Gimel was speculating as to when Roddick would get married. It’s obvious to me from that speculation he’s not as close with any of the players as he would like us to believe, because if he was, he’d know something as to when Roddick would be married, don’t you think? The guy is just an attention seeker and is always fishing for compliments. poor thing, he must have deep psych problems of rejection.


deltox Says:

i would love to get a link that says hawkeye is fooled by shadows.. to my understanding hawkeye is a laser system.. lasers or infra red are not fooled by shadows ever. please correct me if im wrong


Von Says:

I’ve seen some comments where some speculation of the shadows was mentioned, but there have never been definitive findings. Also, some claim the heat throws off the system, and that I can buy, because of computers having to be maintained at a precise temperature, but then again, the HE is in an air-conditioned room, hence, I don’t see a positive correlation, who knows there could be some truth to all of it though.


tenisbebe Says:

Von says:
“It was the same ‘useless’ umpire who didn’t over-rule the linesmen a couple of days ago and then he did the same in Roddick v. Ferrer.”

I thought that who it was. I had the sound down in the Roddick match cuz I couldn’t stand to listen to Gimelslob slobbering all over Andy but he was useless in that other match – wouldn’t overrule his incorrect linespeople when the ball landed right in front of him, all he did was keep score. Hell I could have done that – ever the Brits commented on it.

Anyway congrats to Murray!!


tenisbebe Says:

They just verified that HE picked up the SECOND bounce of the ball on that disputed point, not the first. Apparently, Looby got an apology from the tourney. Wonder if he’ll get something more?, $$$ or points? probably not.


Von Says:

Fed/Verdasco match is now underway. These commentators are sensationalism personified. they speak of Federer as the ‘Swiss Maestro’, and tonight Verdasco is the ‘Spanish Maestro’.

I’m not a Fed fan, but I wonder how he feels about Cahill being in Verdasco’s camp now that he’s shown Cahill some of his game. If I were he, and there was a thing as “conflict of interest” in tennis coaching, I’d surely ask for Cahill to be removed from their match, considering how soon after their interaction he’s coaching Verdasco. Verdasco has an inside on Fed’s game — an upper-hand. Just my silly musings.


Von Says:

Federer is mixing up his serve but is also missing his first serves and double-faulting.

The commentators on FSN are amazed at the amount of bulk Verdasco has achieved. If only his hair would cooperate. Looks like he’s having a very bad hair day. Ha, ha.


Von Says:

First set to Federer 6-3. Hot Sauce is looking out of sorts. His FH is misfiring badly.


Von Says:

tenisbebe:

“Wonder if he’ll get something more?, $$$ or points? probably not.”

Probably some money, but I don’t think we’ll see that umpire at MS tourneys in the future. He’s been embroiled in a few issues already.


tenisbebe Says:

Whatever it is Von, we won’t hear about it. It will be “hush, hush”, ya think?


tenisbebe Says:

Ezzorra & Tam are posting the nando Fed match on the other link: Tennis handicap should we switch?


Roddick is a donkey Says:

Djokovic will have donkey for lunch tomorrow :) comon novak! slay the evil donkey!


sar Says:

I would like a Djok win but it’s a toss up. BTW they gave Novak the day match instead of prime time.


tenisbebe Says:

Sar:

Do you think they did that so that it can be viewed in Serbia in prime time? Tournements have been known to do that at the request of the players home country. Just a thought.


Shan Says:

Chair umpires should overrule any absurd call made by Hawkeye


tenisbebe Says:

I don’t think this particular umpire was comfortable with doing that, perhaps he wasn’t sure if he could overrule the hawkeye call according to the rule book. He said to Looby “We have to go with the machine.” I’d be curious to see what the rule is with regard to this situation. On things is for certain, the Hawkeye people have a little egg on their faces. The system, which is expensive to install & also maintain, is only used for 10 days a year at IW so it should work properly for that brief period.


JDC Says:

The whole clay marks vs Hawkeye issue bothers me. Clay marks are not perfect themselves .. they only indicate where the ball hit hard enough to leave a mark. The very edges of the ball do not leave a mark (the tips of the fuzz on the curvature of the ball that did not completely flatten upon contact). Granted, this only amounts to millimeters, but that’s the typical argument (unlike this second-bounce issue).

Since the marks do not fully indicate the entire surface of the court that the ball touched, you cannot calibrate Hawkeye against it.


Shan Says:

Yes it was interesting to hear him say “We have to go with the machine”. Does that mean that he’s saying “I’m not allowed to overrule Hawkeye” or does that mean that he’s simply saying “My call would have been the same as Hawkeye, so we have to go with the machine”. Hehe, semantics.

Re clay, Hawkeye doesn’t make sense, I completely agree with and respect Gayle Bradshaw’s decision on it. Of course it’s been debated a million times already and every argument has already been heard, but personally for me it boils down to one reason why I think clay + Hawkeye are not necessary. The mark that the ball leaves is tangible to both players whereas they can’t see where the “Hawkeye mark” is. In this case I’d rather choose what the players and chair umpire can tangibly see.


fedster Says:

This ‘Roddick’s a donkey’ is surely a mad man. Somebody out there to take him to a mental hospital?


zola Says:

Shan, Joe,

I guess a clay/Hawk-eye is just an experiment to see if calls as obvious as this one could be mistaken by Hawkeye. For example by the effect of shadow. Some mistakes were really off. The one with Mauresmo, the one with Rafa , and this one with Ivan I did not see, but seems an obvious one.

Surely on clay the mark is deep enough and the player/judges call should be used, but it will be good to have a hawk-eye in one ofthe tournaments (a sunny one perhaps) to see how many mistakes it makes.

Right now they say the hawk-eye error is 5%. While the error by linespeople is 35% and by players 65%. So it is still a good option. But the umpire should be able to over-rule a wrong hawk-eye call, similar to over-ruling a bad line call.


sar Says:

tennisbebe:
So people in Serbia can watch in prime time? Yikes! How simple. I never even thought of that. But wouldn’t the homeboy Roddick want prime time too? Anyhow I hope it’s not HOT today or Djokovic will wilt.


Von Says:

Sar:
The Homey has had prime-time for some of his matches so he is surrendering prime time to the No.1 player — mighty generous of him, if I might add. (sm)
_______________
The HE problem did not occur because HE was inaccurate; it was an HE operator problem. They showed on review the wrong shot and the idiot umpire, if he were doing his job as he’s supposed to do, instead of staring at, and assimilating nothing, should have noticed they reviewed the wrong shot. Had the umpire been lucid, he would have been able to assert himself and emphatically demand the correct review, instead he took the coward’s way out about going with the ‘machine’. Lazy and inept.
_____________
Margot:

Ha,ha. You can have Gimel any time in exchange for one of your Brit commentators — I’d be in heaven, instead I’m suffering listening to that moron. My money’s on Andy M, so fret not.
_______________

FSN will not be broadcasting the Roddick/Djoko match. It can be found on live-streaming at 6:00 pm US EST on ATDHE.NET, and the other match with DelPotro will be on at 10:30 pm on FSN, hopefully.


tenisbebe Says:

“FSN will not be broadcasting the Roddick/Djoko match.” Von are you sure? My guide shows the broadcast beginning at 4pm – 7pm est showing both men’s matches and then again at 10:30est for the women’s match. I think they didn’t show the women’s match last nite because Bammer pulled out due to injury.


sar Says:

Djok comment on Roddick match-

He said about his quarterfinal match: “It’s never easy playing against Andy in [the] States, that’s for sure. He loves playing on these hard courts. We had a lot of really tough matches in last year, year and a half. Really close ones, so I wouldn’t rate myself as favorite in that match for sure, but it could go either way. It will be a big challenge for both of us.”

http://www.bnpparibasopen.org/1/news/newsarticle_2663.asp


Von Says:

tenisbebe:
Did you check your TV for the program guide ref today’s programming? If not, check, you’ll see “Poker World Tour” in the 4:00 pm slot. I’ll tune in, and hope. Also, the Roddick/Djoko match is slotted to begin at 6:00 pm EST which is at 3:00 pm IW, and in view of that little detail it would be somewhat silly for FSN to be broadcasting at 4:00 pm EST, don’t you think? Unless they will be showing a WTA match from 4:00 to 6:00 pm and then pick up Roddick/Djoko, but then they’ll end at 7:00 pm which would be smack in the middle of the match, doesnt make sense to me but we’ll see.


Von Says:

I’m looking at FSN, both stations, and I’m seeing POKER.


tenisbebe Says:

Von – the women match is on now.


tenisbebe Says:

sorry – hit the send button too soon:

Von – the women match is on now on one of my FSN channels.


Von Says:

Well too bad, it’s not on in my area. I’m watching the Tennis Channel broadcasting an old match Venus played a few years ago.


Duro Says:

Hi Von, Tenisbebe, Sar… Where is dear Jane…? It’s one hour 15 min to go!!!


Von Says:

Hi Duro: Yes, not too much longer now. Enjoy the match.


jane Says:

Hi Duro,

I don’t know if I can bear to watch this match! I suspect it’ll be tight and nailbiting stuff… but I wouldn’t be too disappointed if Andy beats Novak because Andy is my older favorite; I used to visit his website all the time! It’s just that Novak has title points to defend, and I believe Andy has already bettered last year’s results here.

Anyway, let the best man today win!! = D


jane Says:

If A-Rod wins today I hope he or Murray win the title. If Novak wins today I hope he wins the title.


sar Says:

For me, it’s anybody but Federer.


jane Says:

sar, I just figure Rafa and Fed have been splitting the most of the spoils for so long now, I’d rather see others win some money and titles too. I wouldn’t be disappointed if somehow JMDP pulled it off, but he won’t.


zola Says:

Jane
If other players want more of the spoils, they need to work for it the way Rafa and Fed do. I don’t think it is just talent. It is also hard work and dedication.

I think JMDP with all the potential, still needs some time. I don’t think he has a winning record against any of the top 4. So unless someone else beats them, he is still behind.

I wouldl put Murray and Roddick’s chances over JMDP’s.

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