Federer Wins Cincy; Bryans Blow 8 Match Points in Loss
by Staff | August 23rd, 2009
  • 200 Comments

World No. 1 Roger Federer defeated No. 4 seed Novak Djokovic 6-1, 7-5 on Sunday for his fourth title of the year at the Western and Southern Financial Group Masters in Cincinnati.


It was Federer’s eighth win in 12 meetings against Djokovic. The 28-year-old Federer is the fourth player to win at least three titles at Cincinnati in the Open Era (since 1968). He has won 16 ATP World Tour Masters 1000 titles (16-9 overall), second only to Andre Agassi’s 17.

Federer saved one set point at 4-5, 30-40 in the second set, converting four of 15 break point opportunities.

“I think the special part [is] winning for the first time as a dad. It’s a great thing. Gets me going emotionally a little bit, because I know it’s been a wonderful summer,” Federer said. “I really had the feeling today I could mix it up the way I wanted to. That then gives me a lot of confidence. I was playing great from the beginning to the end.”

Federer said he is also free of some of the pain he was suffering earlier in the year.

“It’s good to know that when I need a good serve I can hit it, whereas maybe last week [at the Rogers Cup in Montreal] I still had some muscle pain just from coming back on tour,” Federer said. “I got the muscle pain out and got used to hitting big serves again. I have no back problem and pain, so that allows me again to play freely and focus on the way I want to play and not the way I have to hit the shot. That’s a big difference today than a few months ago.”

Djokovic fell to 13-11 in career finals.

“He was just too good in the first set. I didn’t start very energetic, and my body language wasn’t [what] it was last night [against Rafael Nadal],” Djokovic said. “I found the rhythm [at] the start of the second set. I thought I would be able to hold on, but he just put too much pressure on my service games. If you play against Roger without the first serve, I don’t think you have a lot of chances.”

“Overall, it’s [a] final and it’s been [a] great week for me, and I got a lot of matches in before the US Open. I’m satisfied. I didn’t start that great the tournament. I had some slow starts, but I had some big servers for opponents. I will try to work in these seven days before US Open on things, on a better approach to the match and being aggressive from the start. If I manage to do that, I think I can get far.”

In the doubles final the top-seeded Bryan brothers failed to convert on eight match points, losing to No. 2 seeds Daniel Nestor and Nenad Zimonjic 3-6, 7-6(2), 15-13.


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200 Comments for Federer Wins Cincy; Bryans Blow 8 Match Points in Loss

sports fan Says:

While this was not vintage Federer it was the closest he’s been to that in 2 years……He is starting to find that game that he had for 5 years before he got the mono……He could become vintage Federer very soon, but we will see……I hope Nadal picks it up so we can see them play in New York…


Voicemale1 Says:

Sports Fan:

Respectfully disagree. Federer looked today like he has at any time in his career. Every player’s form drops during the course of a match – even Federer’s. Margaret Court used to say she wanted to be twice as good in the warm up/practice than she needed to be because she knew her level would drop during the match. It does for everyone. That he recovered from that and resumed his level afterward is as good as just about anything he’s shown. Djokovic was in good form and is an overall decent player. Federer made him look ordinary. And Djokovic had no answer to Federer’s pattern of shots that continually forced Djokovic back. In effect, Federer did to Djokovic what Djokovic did to Nadal last night: play nothing but defense.

Nadal has almost no chance to actually win the US Open. If he can stay steady through the first week, the only way he could win it is if a rash of upsets took hold. Federer, Murray, Djokovic and Del Potro would all have to either lose or be shaken up by some long matches & be ripe for the plucking for Nadal to win there. We probably won’t see his best form until maybe the YEC in London, and Australia in 2010. I’d love to see him with the Open and complete his conquest of all four Majors. But he’s up against it. The only good thing is that when he is up against it is usually when he plays really good tennis.


jane Says:

“Djokovic fell to 4-6 in career finals.” I don’t get this statement; sorry to sound clueless, but Djoko has 13 titles, so how can he be 4-6 in “career” finals? Is this supposed to read “masters series finals”? Hmmm… has he been in ten masters series finals? (this year alone, he’s been in Miami, Monte Carlo, Rome, Halle and Cincy finals; he also lost an IW final to Nadal in 07. And he’s won Miami, IW, Rome, Canada). So, I assume what this stat means is that he’s 4-6 in Masters Series finals, not “career finals”.

I do worry that when Djoko gets to the “big matches” he doesn’t quite, how shall I put this, “bring it”. He needs to believe and go that one step further. If he can be in that many finals, he should be able to win more of them. Except maybe against Rafa on clay; even Fed hasn’t really overcome that hurdle often.

Voicemale1 I said almost this exact same thing during the final today “Federer did to Djokovic what Djokovic did to Nadal last night: play nothing but defense.” Fed had Djok on his heels from the get-go just like Djok pinned back Nadal last night. If Fed’s going to attack like that these guys need to match it or practice their passing shots and take care of their own serves. Honestly I thought Djoko returned quite well today (and against Rafa also), but he could’ve went for more outright winners on the second serve returns, and not get stuck in rallies with Fed. Djok also made more unforced errors than last night – and his UEs outnumbered his winners, even though he did hit a number of winners. So I agree that Djok was in “good” form but not his best.


fadingis Says:

jane, halle is not a master series.


the_mind_reels Says:

@jane — Yes, the comment about Djokovic’s record in finals is a little unclear. As you point out, it should read that he’s now 4-6 in career Masters Series finals, since he does indeed own more than 4 tour level titles to his name.

Agreed that Novak doesn’t really “bring it,” as you say, when the pressure is on and the big matches are on the line, and his play at the Open in the last two years against Fed doesn’t bode well either. He was ultra nervy in the finals in ’07 (granted, his first major final) but also didn’t look tremendous in last year’s semi against Roger. I think he’s looked relatively flat this year in grand-slam play, so let’s hope that the form he’s showed up late will carry through to the Open.

As for Roger, well, he’s pretty much rolling right now. He’s playing very freely and not looking too pressured at all. His two wins yesterday and today should give him a nice confidence boost going into Flushing Meadows, and considering that he was serving at a pretty low percentage both days (56% and 55%, respectively) AND won with relative ease, that’s gotta feel good. Regardless of how the draw shapes up, I like him going deep if not winning it all.


i am it Says:

in his yesterday’s interview djokovic did not sound he could win today plus some other facts.
Q. So what specifically do you need to focus on to beat Roger tomorrow?
NOVAK DJOKOVIC: Well, he’s a different kind of player from Rafa. Rafa runs more and, well, gives you more time to do the things maybe you like.
With Roger, the points are shorter, so if he plays the way he was playing in most of the year so far, it’s gonna be really difficult.
But, well, obviously I will have to be focused on each point. He’s gonna put a lot of pressure on my service games and he’s gonna go to the net.
As well as he played today, I hope we can have an interesting match tomorrow.

Q. I heard that there was a possibility for you and Rafa to play doubles here in Cincinnati; is that true?
NOVAK DJOKOVIC: Yeah, that’s true. Unfortunately he wasn’t ready physically to play singles and doubles, so he just decided to play singles. Maybe we have chance in the future.


David Says:

sports fan:

You didn’t think Federer played close to his very best in last year’s U.S. Open final? I thought in fact that it was better than his performance in the 2007, 2006 and 2005 USO finals. In those, he won despite not being at his very best, imo.


David Says:

the mind reels:

Totally agree about Roger playing pressure-free. He was noticeably tense throughout the Wimbledon final I thought, what with all the legends on hand and going for #15. Now that he’s accomplished everything, look out. If he’s going to go out there and swing away freely, he’s got a great shot at the “Roger Slam” I never would’ve predicted that after the AO final.

By the way, bold prediction there that you think Roger will “go deep if not win” the USO :) I guess his results in the last 21 Slams have you pretty confident about your prediction.


sports fan Says:

I agree to some extent David……Does anybody think Rafa can beat Federer at the US Open if he gets Federer in the semis….I actually think Federer could choke that one away.


David Says:

It’s hard to see how Rafa’s form is going to be good enough to beat Fed at the USO. I’m not real convinced he can even get to the semis. But you make a fair point. If there’s anything that could make Fed nervous it’s a match against Rafa. You know Rafa’s record against Fed overall and in big finals is still eating at him despite all of his accomplishments.


jane Says:

fadingis – thanks, yes I know Halle is not a Master Series (I am not sure if Monte Carlo is anymore either); I was merely writing out which finals he’d been in this year that he hadn’t won – kind of thinking aloud.

the_mind_reels – throughout 07 and into 08 I thought Djoko played pretty well in the bigger events -masters and slams- but this year there’s been a definite dip in form. I think he got off on the wrong foot with the new racquet and AO retirement, and his confidence took a beating. Since he’s hired the new fitness coach he seems better (very few trainer calls, no retirements, conditioning seems good), but nevertheless he was flat at RG and nervous at Wimbledon. I hope he can build on the pretty good play at Cincy and play better at the USO. The addition of Todd Martin to his team may help him improve in areas like second serve, at the net, etc. We’ll see…


sports fan Says:

ANY PREDICTIONS FOR THE WINNER IN NEW YORK?


David Says:

I don’t see how you can pick against Fed at this point. Murray and Roddick are the only other two with a shot imo.


sports fan Says:

FAVORITES FOR THE US OPEN 2009:

1. ROGER FEDERER
2. ANDY MURRAY
3. J M. DELPOTRO
4. NOVAK DJOKOVIC
5. RAFAEL NADAL
6. ANDY RODDICK
7. FERNANDO VERDASCO
8. NICKOLAY DAVYDENKO
9. IVO KARLOVIC
10. MARION CILIC


David Says:

I don’t think Delpo is fit enough or experienced enough to go through 7 matches at the USO. Hopefully he lives up to his seeding, but I don’t think he’s done enough to deserve to be put ahead of Djoke, Nadal and Roddick.


jane Says:

There’s also Tsonga; remember, he just beat Fed, he’s beaten almost all of the other potential contenders at least once (except JMDP, I think), and he’s been in a hard court slam final. He’s a dark horse at slams, imo. You never know with him.


David Says:

Since the USO went to hard courts in 1978, every single winner on the men’s side has been No. 1 at some point in his career. It’s really not a tournament where crazy upsets are likely to happen. Especially not when the 5-time defending champion is in great form, and the world No. 2 is going in strong having just won an MS title.


sports fan Says:

jane…….you are exactly right…….i totally forgot about tsonga…..i would put him at 7th favorite after roddick and before verdasco….


sports fan Says:

dave…..the reason I put delpotro at 3 is because he made quarters of australia, semis of french, won washington by beating roddick, and than bea nadal easily in montreal after the first set….so i actually do think he belongs there…..you are right though about fitness, but after winning washington, and than getting to finals of montreal the next week I would say he is fit enough……what is going to be interesting is the quarter that roddick, delpotro, tsonga, and verdasco fall on…..if delpotro falls in nadal’s half it could be a war to get to the semis…..verdasco has beaten murray in a major on hardcourts as well…..tsonga has also beaten nadal badly in the semis of australia 2008…..going to be great us open, but i want to see federer vs nadal…..


tenisbebe Says:

Hi Jane. I’m pooped and will sleep well, thanks. Sar & I watched the Rafa/Djoko match together Sat nite which was great fun – really enjoyed hanging out together. It was their 1st tournament so they were drinking in all the drama – all the Serbian flags, screaming fans, packed stadium – it was fun to see their reaction to it all. Nice, nice couple.

Yes, TV rules the roost. Sometimes this works against Fed in Cincy when he has to play in God aweful heat in the afternoon but not so this year. The weather was fantastic & he gained 8 hours more recovery time over Novak.

Duro, Jane: Congrats on Nestor/Z’s win! What a crazy match! As Nestor said in his trophy speech, they pulled that one out of their ***. But I suppose that’s only fair as the Bryan’s did the same thing Sat nite in the semi after losing the 1st set 6-0. This was Z’s first major title, yes? He stayed out on court after the trophy presentation signing autographs and talking to fans for 15 minutes (Nestor, who’s won many times headed to the locker room). It was touching, obviously very special for him.


tenisbebe Says:

USO – Delpo definitely is in the mix as is Tsonga. I was so pissed at him for losing that match against Guch (Gucchione! Who went thru qualies no less and is 124th) after losing the tiebreak 12-10 – he completely submarined in the 2nd set. Dammit!

I’m hoping Simon makes it deep. I made sure I saw all his matches, cheering him on. He showed grit in the match vs Niko having given up a break at the end of the 2nd set, losing it, by staying calm & focused & coming back to win the 3rd 6-1. ALLEZ!


blah Says:

I want Simon to make it deep as well. If Gasquet never resurface, he’ll probably become the number one guy I root for. Hopefully he can do something in 5 setters.

As for USO favorites- I’ll do a list of ten but I think only the top six has a realistic shot of winning.

1- Roger Federer- pretty obvious
2- Andy Roddick- His game has improved greatly this year, USO is his home field, and it’s played in 5 sets. I believe he could beat both Murray and Del Potro in five sets.
3- Andy Murray- His passive style might not be as good for five sets, which is why he’s behind Roddick.
4- Juan Martin Del Potro- Lack of fitness and experience, but he played Murray tough last year and I wouldn’t be surprised to see him in the final.
5- Rafael Nadal- Not only is it because of his form- but I don’t know whether he’s at 100% health, USO has been his worst slam, it’s a faster surface than AO, and he’s more vulnerable now than ever.
6- Novak Djokovic- Why is here even though I picked him to beat Fed in Cincy? well, him being here doesn’t have that much to do with the final- it’s just that I don’t see him winning a slam right now. He might fade away or get upset by a veteran.

————————————————–

7- Fernando Gonzazlez- He retired with injury from Cincy- but if his injury isn’t serious, he has posted good results this year, is a veteran, has been to the semis, holds his service games, is fit enough.
8- Marin Cilic- I think he’ll do well and continue to move up the rankings.
9- Lleyton Hewitt- I really don’t think he will win a slam, but I think he might get into the Quarter finals again. He will fight every match out and has been there, and who knows, if he gets a good draw and the top guys take each other out. Still a lonnng shot though.
10- Jo Wilfried Tsonga- He has to catch lightning in a bottle like he did in AO, he has the game to win it, but again, a lonnng shot that he stays in top form for all 7 matches.

————————————————–

Now, who I will be rooting for to win the slam-

1. Andy Roddick- he deserves to win another with the changes he has made to his game.
2. Gilles Simon- pretty unrealistic but I am a pretty big fan. Cool guy on and off the court.
3. Novak Djokovic- I don’t know why, but I want him to win a slam now. I used to dislike him a lot, but since then he’s become a little less arrogant, cut down on the ball bouncing, and the guy has a sense of humor. Though I hope he won’t abuse injury timeouts/retirements please.
4. Andy Murray- I hope he plays more aggressive and wins the slam, and employ that style more from now on.
5. Marat Safin- Lol. Will never happen in a million years but god I want to see him go out with another slam.


madmax Says:

blah – i like your comments in your post above – USO – favourites.

wasn’t roger s-u-b-l-i-m-e in cinny last night. and i know what you mean about novak. he has become someone i really admire, much less arrogant than he used to be, so much more charming and friendly – a credit to the game – with a wicked forehand.

I love roddick too – it would be great if he won a slam this year – he has worked so hard.

Roger all the way tho’.


The Binocular Says:

It will be interesting to see how Federer plays the majors now since there is no longer any pressure for him to win.


WTA needs a look at the ranking system


David Says:

madmax

Just to add to your thoughts about Novak. Another reason to pull for him is that you know he’s a guy who’s not going to get any breaks from tournament organizers. Since he’s not American, British, French or Australian, or a global icon like Fed, organizers aren’t going to hesitate to jerk him around with the scheduling at Wimby/USO. For me anyway, that gives him loveable underdog status.


Dan Martin Says:

Tenisbebe – I agree Simon is a real fighter and is mentally very tough. I think we could see him on Super Saturday if the draw works out favorably. The draw is going to be key as 1 side of the draw really could have 4 of the consensus top 6 players making the other two a lot more likely to take the crown.

Nice meeting you tenisbebe. I tried to come by during Gonzo-Berdych but the match ended early and I missed you.


David Says:

Dan:

I don’t care what the draw looks like. There’s no scenario where someone other than Fed is more likely to win the tournament. Let’s say Nadal, Roddick and Del Potro are in his half of the draw. That could end up working out fine. Delpo could take Nadal out for him and then he could have Roddick, Delpo and then Murray or Djoko in the final.


jane Says:

David, are you joking re: the scheduling and Djok? I don’t think one has to be “American, British, French or Australian, or a global icon” to get a decent schedule by any means! :) It probably does help to be number 1 and/or to be playing at home – as organizers must want to accommodate players who’ll draw a big crowd, either on the grounds or on t.v. But who knows how they work all that out. There must be a kind of “rotation” system for Center courts, with trying to give the top guys all some matches on there. But as for day/night, I’ve always wondered how that is worked out, and according to tenisbebe, t.v. does have a lot to do with it, which makes sense. As she put it, “money talks.”

—————————————

Blah – I like your “root for” list a lot! I’ve never been a huge fan of Simon but I don’t dislike him either. He’s a hard-working player, and he can and has challenged pretty much all the guys ranked above him right now, so it’s not improbable that he will have a good run at the final slam. Last year he had a tight R16 match with Murray -or was it JMDP?- at the USO, and this year a tight one with Rafa at the AO. He’s beaten Fed (and I think Roddick) on hard courts in 3 setters. And he’s beaten Djoko once too. Gilles has a lot of variety and can last, so 5 setters shouldn’t be a problem either. He could attack a bit more, as he can be a bit passive at times, like Murray. Sometimes that works for him but not always.


David Says:

Jane:

Maybe I’m being overly cynical. But I do think guys like Djokovic are at a slight disadvantage. If everything goes according to plan and there’s no rain or no brutally hot weather, then it isn’t going to matter. But I remember back to 2003. From what I recall, after several days of rain, when they finally started play again it was only Roddick and Agassi who went out for the night session matches. Guys like JCF were forced to play something like 4 days in a row to try to win the tournament.

So as as example, if there’s a record heat wave in New York, I do fully believe that Roddick would get an extra night match, while a guy like Djoko would be given one afternoon match after another. I’m sure plenty of people would disagree with me on that though.

I also remember in 1987(?) Edberg and Wilander staged a little mini protest over the scheduling.

All I’m saying is that Djoko’s a more accomplished player at this point than Murray and equally as accomplished as Roddick in terms of Slam wins, yet there’s no big tournament in the world where he’s going to get any special treatment. Just accident of birth.

But I think he should use that as special motivation like Lendl did, maybe fuel him to work harder to beat the “fan favorite” guys. And I think Djoko plays better when he has that chip on his shoulder. But he doesn’t seem to have it right now.


Kafu Says:

You guys are in a lot of discussion who really is gonna have a chance winning 2009 USO. I see it as a waste of time….speculating and assessing different top players…BUT

I do not see anyone other than the legendery ROGER FEDERER who would take the cup. End of discussion.

Kafu from Toronto


jane Says:

David, I just couldn’t tell if you were being serious or sarcastic in your post.

“Edberg and Wilander staged a little mini protest over the scheduling.” Really? That’s interesting. I’d love to read/hear more about this.

Wimbledon 2007 was a classic example of rain/scheduling problems for some of the players, those on the bottom half in particular; Nadal, Djoko and Gasquet all ended up playing back-to-back difficult matches because of the rain delays/scheduling and the fact that Wimbledon would not have play on the second Sunday to try to even things out.

I have made comments about scheduling here before, but usually people think I’m being a conspiracy theorist. LOL. Yet there HAVE to be some vested interests in how the schedules are arranged, so I don’t think it’s cynical to comment on it at all.

As for Djoko, I don’t know if I want him to play with a chip on his shoulder, or with the crowd against him, but definitely he could use such issues as motivation to prove and improve himself, like Lendl did.


David Says:

Jane

Here’s a link to that protest. Again, the cynic in me says the scheduling change in that instance it was done for Connors’ benefit.

http://articles.latimes.com/1987-09-13/sports/sp-7507_1_protest-time-change


jane Says:

David I found a link on the Edberg/Wilander protest:

http://articles.latimes.com/1987-09-13/sports/sp-7507_1_protest-time-change

It talks about popularity and also the control of the media. Weather was a factor too – so basically all issues related to scheduling almost. But it was protested as well because Edberg had played doubles late the night before and then had to come out and play a very early semifinal.


jane Says:

LOL We were obviously googling the same thing simultaneously. Anyhow, thanks.


Dan Martin Says:

David,

I agree the #1 player and 5 time defending champion is going to be the favorite and always have a plurality if not majority of the percentage of chances at victory until someone beats him. Federer is the favorite and likely gained some mental momentum in various rivalries and also personally this past week. I do think the other guys in the top 6 all have some interesting story lines and that the draw is going to be a factor in the event.


Voicemale1 Says:

David:

The schedule change was done for the benefit of CBS, period. In the US, the three largest American Networks (which means their $$$ to the USTA for broadcast rights) dictate the schedule. The networks insist on broadcasting sports events on weekends – that’s their “prime time” for sports (with rare exceptions like Monday Night Football). So when CBS says we can broadcast on Saturday & Sunday only. It’s about the networks, not the players.


David Says:

Voicemale1

Yeah, point well taken. I’d just add that it’s those same networks who want the McEnroes, Connors, Agassis, Sampras, Roddicks in the final of the tournament. I’m sure Wilander and Edberg were well aware of that. No doubt Lendl was too and took special pleasure in blasting Connors later that day.

By the way, I know some people complain about Fed getting the benefit of the schedule sometime. The way I look at it, if you can do what he’s done from some small country like Switzerland, you deserve it. He would be jerked around like Mats and Edberg were if his brilliant play and unprecedented record didn’t earn him a higher status.


David Says:

Kafu

I tend to agree. I think some people are understandably getting a little sick of Fed winning everything year after year. I myself would like to see anyone else win. But no one else has the game, fitness, experience and current run of form. If Fed does suffer a shocking upset, then I think Murray or Roddick would take it, but putting guys like JMDP or Tsonga in the mix is just wishful thinking, imo.


NachoF Says:

I would hate it if Nadal ended up on Fed’s side of the draw… these two are made to play epic finals against each other.


sensationalsafin Says:

Tsonga might be wishful thinking but how is JMDP? And I don’t understand how you can say Federer is winning everything. Last year, he won ONLY the US Open. Nadal won almost everything else. And this year started with Nadal winning everything in sight.


Von Says:

Blah:

Love your list of preferences to win the USO. Hopefully the stars are aligned favorably to those your wishes encompass. I Am also happy to see you are attempting to move on from Gasquet to Simon (but don’t give up on Gasquet yet) as your fave. It always makes the tourney that much more interesting when one has a fave for whom to root. I remmeber when Sampras was on and off the tour with his back problems, I found myself becoming somewhat disinterested in some matches, and then I began rooting for Roddick and, six (6) years later, here I am, still rooting for Roddick. I also like the fact that you don’t feel it’s necessary to root for the top players and one who wins all of the time, but just for one you like. When Roddick began losing to Federer many of his fans jumped ship and latched on to Nadal and Djokovic, and since his run at Wimby we see some of those same fans returning and backing Roddick. LOL. Here’s hoping that Simon will remain in the top 10 and give more meaning to the USO for you.
__________________
Jane: Simon has never beaten Roddick.


Von Says:

Since I’m not one for predictions and post match post-mortems, I’m just hoping that those players I like will go deep and make some noise at the USO. I hope the QFs, SFS and finals will all be competitive and exciting matches and may the best man end up holding the trophy.


sheila Says:

i think roger is definitely favorite to win on paper, but there are lots of other players that may pull the uso win off. murray, djokovic, roddick, nadal, del potro, and, of course, roger. if roger can play as well as he did against murray & djokovic in cincy, plus pickup his 1st serve % then he is definitely the fvt. for me, when roger is moving well, hitting his forehand well(not looping it all the time), and his 1st serve is on, i still think hes unbeatable.
i’m glad he finally won murray again. finally played murray by attacking his 2nd serve. geez y don’t more players attack murrays 2nd serve. that seems 2b his achilles heel. also federer seemed to flatten his forehand out more which i think he needs to do more often against players like murray, nadal & djokovic. well, being a very loyal roger fan, i hope he pulls off the win @ uso.


tenisbebe Says:

NachoF – Rafa WILL be in Fed’s half. 1&3, then 2&4 if past draws are anything to go by.

Dan Martin – I very much enjoyed meeting you too. Yes, Gonzo went over to his chair after losing the 1st set, said “I default” to the umpire, grabbed his bag & strode off court before you could blink. There didn’t appear to be anything wrong with him – just being petulant – but who knows with injuries. Needless to say, the crowd was not pleased as it was one of the best matchups of the day imo and on grandstand – a plus for the non-boxholding fans. I took a break during the lull and must have missed you.

Simon showed me his mental toughness & poise at Cincy this year. I was impressed & happy as I like him alot & hope he does well at the Open but would be too much to ask to see him in the finals.

Jane – It’s all about TV and who’s the biggest draw in their television market. btw they put Djoko on Grandstand court for his match vs Chardy on Thursday while Nadal, Fed & Murray were on Center court. Due to the nature of the layout & the conditions that day, it was quite gusty on grandstand that day while not so much on center & he was having a little trouble, particularly with his toss because of it but in the end handled Chardy beautifully.


FedFan_2007 Says:

Scheduling definitely favors The Fedster because he plays such an efficient style he always is ready to turn around in less then 24 hours for the final. Whereas, his opponents are usually knackered due to more physical style of play. Advantage Federer!


jane Says:

hey tenisbebe, are 1 vs 3, and 2 vs. 4 a guarantee? I had thought that only the 1 and 2 spots were a lock in the draws (one on top half, two on the bottom) and the rest of the spots were drawn. I say this with some experience since Djok was number 3 for a long time and I always wondered if he’d end up on Rafa’s or Fed’s side of the draw.


Von Says:

Voicemale1: “Nadal has almost no chance to actually win the US Open.”

I mentioned on the other thread that Nadal would most probably get to the SFs, but I doubt it will happen due to his newly developed stomach tear.
_______________
tenisbebe: I can’t let this pass, but it seems that you’ve become a huge Djoko fan. Seems like Sar’s fanship rubbed off on you. LOL.


Von Says:

“Yeah, point well taken. I’d just add that it’s those same networks who want the McEnroes, Connors, Agassis, Sampras, Roddicks in the final of the tournament. I’m sure Wilander and Edberg were well aware of that. No doubt Lendl was too and took special pleasure in blasting Connors later that day.”

Come on, the tournament is on American soil and if they favour their own can you blame them? I’m sure the Swiss would put Federer on at prime-time in lieu of an Smerican, so why can’t the Smericans be allowed to favour their players at times, considering who pays for the air time. I think they are fair because Federer and the top guys are given preference at times over the Americans by showing their matches in its entirety and only show a few minutes of the matches the Americans play.


Von Says:

Smericans s/b Americans


Dan Martin Says:

I enjoyed interviewing Simon or being in the post match presser. I did that twice last year at Indy so it was nice for me


Dan Martin Says:

Tenisbebe,

Did they move your station on the grand stand court during the Simon-Andreev match – I watched the whole thing near the gate we met at


David Says:

Sensational Safin:

Saying JMDP can win the USO is wishful thinking because he’s yet to win anything of note – no MS titles, let alone Slams. I guess Hewitt won the USO back in 2001 as his first big title, but it’s a pretty rare occurrence.


David Says:

Von:

I know it’s the way of the world. It’s not the American players’ fault if they get some breaks here and there with scheduling, or if Murray does at Wimbledon, etc. I just think that’s a reason to root for players like Djoke or JMDP. No USTA official or TV exec is going to be particularly pleased about them winning the USO.


Long Live the King Says:

Only 1 and 2 are a lock. Rest all are, pure luck.A Roger-Rafa semi is 50-50.


jane Says:

Hey Von, speaking personally I never felt that I “jumped ship” with regards to cheering for Roddick. I only added more players to the boat. LOL. I still rooted for RoddicK long after Rafa and Djoko appeared, and have always been happy with his successes and sad for his losses. I was heartbroken after the USO 2007 quarterfinal loss, as I felt Roddick played so well; same with this year’s Wimby. And I was thrilled when he won Dubai last year, beating Djoko and Nadal on the way. For me, as new players arrive (Nadal, then Djoko, then Murray, then Tsonga – also JMDP/Cilic/Gulbis – etc.) I just take a liking to them (or not) and so I root for them too. There are so many players I like that it keeps it interesting; I don’t feel “latched” on to 1 player.

By contrast, it will probably be difficult for some fans, particularly some intense Roger and Rafa fans, when their favorite retires. Will they lose interest in tennis altogether? I wouldn’t doubt that some of them will, which is really too bad.

Like you, I’ve been watching this sport for a long time, and therefore favorites come, go, and even multiply, but tennis doesn’t stray. Hallelujah for that!


tenisbebe Says:

I’m back. Am watching the baby this afternoon & had to feed him & put him down for a nap. Took a little siesta with him myself as it is a gorgeous day & have all the windows open. A siesta is a beautful thing.

Dan Martin – Yes, I flipped to gates 15 & 16 for the Simon/Andreev match as I needed to get out of the sun for a while. Darn – didn’t know you’d returned as would have looked for you. Oh well, next year.

Jane – well they put place the top eight seeds on the board first at Cincy & then draw the rest of the players names for placement. They are going to televise the USO draw ceremony on ESPNNews on Thursday at noon EDT so perhaps we can watch it & have our answer.

FYI: “Prior to the draw ceremony, No. 3 men’s seed and 2007 US Open finalist Novak Djokovic will be appearing at the NASDAQ Marketsite Studio in Manhattan with USTA President Jane Brown Grimes as they will open the day’s trading.” Jane this should be on CNBC live at 9:30am EDT Thursday morning. How cool!


Von Says:

jane: I was speaking in general with respect to people changing and jumping ship, which is normal for some, as many like to back a winner and not a ‘loser’ IMO, and that’s fine if they feel the need to do so. I believe Long Live mentioned the same a few weeks ago with respect to some Roddick fans doing just that. I don’t know why you feel it was necessary for you to defend your position as to whom you root for and your faves in general, because my comments were not written with you in mind in the least bit. However, since you’ve mentioned the following, I’ll address it:

“There are so many players I like that it keeps it interesting; I don’t feel “latched” on to 1 player.”

Judging by the all out defense, concern, happiness, and sorrow you demonstrate with respect to Djokovic all of the time, I’d say you’ve pretty much latched onto him securely, and I’m speaking from my observations here, where I don’t see the same energy and enthusiasm devoted to the other players whom you say or deem as part of your fave list. For instance, you say you root for Roddick, but I don’t see the same defenses on his behalf when he’s attacked and/or the post-mortems about his match play, etc., when he loses. For instance, when Andy lost v. Querrey, he was sick, but to me there wasn’t any interest there as you’d show if Djoko had a similar situation as when he can’t breathe. And, now with the draw, you’re not concerned in whose QF Roddick or any of your other faves would land, but you’re very concerned for Djoko as to where he’d land. Hope you see the difference, so, yeah, I’d say you’re very latched onto Djoko as the No. 1 player on your list whether you acknowledge it or not. Anyway, thanks for the discussion, and I again reiterate my comments were made in general and your fanship was not in the least bit in my mind when I wrote them.


Von Says:

David:

“I just think that’s a reason to root for players like Djoke or JMDP. No USTA official or TV exec is going to be particularly pleased about them winning the USO.”

I don’t know about USTA officials being displeased about which players winning the USO because the media only cares about the news and will exploit whomever wins to make headlines. Both Federer and Nadal receive a lot of attention from the US media and fans in general, and their matches are always shown in its entirety on our TV stations, even if on delayed broadcasts. Many times I don’t even see a glimpse of roddick and the Americans, and sometimes only a few minutes of their matches are shown. Additionally, both Djokovic and Murray also are given a lot of attention by our media, especially when Murray played at Wimby. Unfortunately, due to Djoko’s outburst at the USO last year, I doubt he’d be received as warmly by the ‘crowd’ as the other players, but that’s the crowd and not the media, but that’s a whole different can of worms. I’d just like to see whichever matches they choose to t are feature be shown in their entirety and not a few minutes here and there flipping and flitting by the TV stations between them.


Von Says:

correction @ 3:32 pm: “I’d just like to see whichever matches they choose to t are feature”

s/b whichever matches they choose to feature


Von Says:

It appears that baghdatis is really going down the tubes and at an accelerated pace too. he just lost to Fredericko Gil 6-4, 6-3. Too bad for Marcos as he’s got so much talent, an infectious and warm personality, not to mention his beautiful smile.


David Says:

Von:

When I said TV execs, I wasn’t referring to the media reporting on the matches. I was referring to the particular network that has the rights to cover the tournament. It would most certainly be in that network’s interest to have the American star do well. Of course Fed and Nadal because of their incredible success in recent years can also bring in the ratings.

As far as the USTA, it’s got to be embarrassing for them for there to have been such a long drought without an American player winning a Slam and no one really coming up on the horizon. It’s certainly in the USTA’s interest for Roddick or someone else to win the USO.

Again, I’m not bringing this up to take credit away from Americans who have done well in the past or anything of the sort. It’s just that for me personally, I see a guy like Djoke as an outsider, someone who is never going to be the fan favorite or the organizers’ favorite at any Slam. And for that reason I see him as an underdog worth rooting for, even if he has had him moments of immaturity in the past.

I see him sort of like Lendl, but the difference is that Lendl wouldn’t settle for second best. I’m not so sure Novak has that need to be No. 1. I especially don’t like his comments about being born in the “wrong era.” Instead he should be focused about getting better and being ready to pounce when Fed’s game starts declining.


Gordo Says:

This is a test


Gordo Says:

Isn’t it good enough that we have talented blokes like Federer, Nadal, Murray, Djokovic and up and comers like Simon and DelPotro to thrill us with their play? Really, who cares if they are not American other than Americans?

So what if the US is so insular that the only way they support something en masse is if one of their own is excelling in it?

I’ll bet only a tiny percentage of Americans had heard of the Tur de France until Armstrong came along. That doesn’t mean the tour wasn’t grand.

And tennis in the world is doing just fine, imo.

If Americans choose not to watch it because their players are not doing well – and Roddick is doing his best to be in the elite group – then it’s their loss.

Those USA citizens who do love tennis are still a large number and I am sure they are not too bummed out that it is not followed like football.


David Says:

What do you all think? If Fed wins the U.S. Open, will he be SI Sportsman of the Year? Arthur Ashe is the only male tennis player to win the award, and that was for his humanitarian pursuits. Chris Evert and Billie Jean King also have won it. No non-American has won the award since 1998 and that was Sammy Sosa as co-winner with American Mark McGwire. Wayne Gretzky is the last American to be sole recipient of the award.

But in Fed’s favor, Tiger Woods had a lousy year (for him). I don’t think there’s any baseball player that has stood out that much, or American football player for that matter. It’s not an Olympic year.

The one guy that would probably beat him out is Kobe Bryant, but it might be a close vote.


tenisbebe Says:

Von – “tenisbebe: I can’t let this pass, but it seems that you’ve become a huge Djoko fan. Seems like Sar’s fanship rubbed off on you. LOL.”

Well, not really. I said before Cincy began that my 1st pick was Rafa to win, second Djoko (Murray won Montreal after all) so I think I’m consistant. I was actually torn when Simon played Djoko in the qtrs as really like Simon but from a tournament standpoint, it was fantastic having the top 4 in the semi’s. I believe beginning of Wimby I said I wanted Roddick to win that (Murray 2nd) and Rafa to win the USO. I don’t have a diehard fave right now like you and Jane but one things for sure: as of the French, I’m done with Fed. Love Rafa, Roddick, Tsonga, Haas, appreciate Murray but can’t completely warm up to him yet, appreciate & enjoy Djoko’s playing only I have warmed “back” up to him since AO ’09 loss to Andy R. I’m off his back and rooting for him at selective times/tourney/opponents. Saw all of his matches at Cincy & at each one he overruled a bad call in his opponents favor. This was particularly important on his match played on grandstand as there is no Hawkeye. Showed very good sportsmanship. Not a fan of Delpo per se – the kid is a dangerous opponent. Truly I pick who I root for match by match through a tournament, many times picking the underdog of the top 10.

Von – the Blake/Matthei DC match has been on TC all afternoon. You have mentioned this match several times as being a pivotal one for Matthei’s demise & having never seen it, I can now see why. Was so glad PHM started to look like his old self at Cincy – another journeyman I like.


tenisbebe Says:

Von – Re: Baggy. I watched him lose his 1st round qualifying match last Saturday to Kendrick. So sad.


Eric Says:

The American media is hardly the xenophobic monster y’all seem to think. True, when Roddick was big news before Federer came along, he made headlines a lot, but we’re all perfectly happy to see Federer, Nadal, et al. making most of the news these days.

It’s just that tennis isn’t that popular – football, baseball, football, hockey, and football are the only sports that are big deals in the US. And swimming now that Phelps is famous. Sure, if Roddick won the USO, it would all over the place for a while, but what country’s media isn’t like that? Give me a break. We’re a FAR CRY from the nonstop blowjob the British media gives Murray.

(BTW, David, Wayne Gretzky is Canadian.)


Gordo Says:

I think David meant that Gretzky was the last non- American to be named SI’s SotY.


Eric Says:

I realized that must be what he meant about 10 seconds after I posted. Good catch.

Anyway, my point is that we American tennis fans don’t really like Roddick any more than we like other good, entertaining tennis players like Roger, Rafa, or their ilk (or, at least, I don’t; and neither does anyone else I know).


David Says:

Eric

I think serious fans like us, who are into it so much we post on blogs, don’t care about the players’ nationality. We just want to see great tennis, or a certain style of play have success. But there’s also the amorphous mass of sports fans who are pretty much are only going to tune in if an American, or maybe Federer, is playing. The networks know this and no doubt would love to rig the draw if they could to help ensure the ratings-friendly players win. Since they can’t fix the draws, the other thing is the scheduling.

At the end of the day, though, a guy like Djoke or JMDP simply has to expect that things are going to be against them at all 4 Slams. They need to be doubly fit and mentally tough to know they might finish at midnight and then get a 11:00 match the next day (if there have been problems with rain earlier in the tournament). I don’t know if that’s happened, but they should expect it because they’re definitely not any organizer’s or TV exec’s priority.


tenisbebe Says:

Agree with you Eric. Gordo – I think the point that people were trying to make is that the major network exec’s make the decisions of who to air when based on what will attract “the masses”, not the true American tennis fans. For all the flack ESPN gets from the bloggers here, they did listen to us & changed from showing American players almost exclusively, whether it was going to be a blowout or not, & are showing much more of the competive journeymen matches in the early rounds. Of course with the advent of ESPN360 & DirecTV, this becomes less important.


tenisbebe Says:

David – great minds think alike? LOL


Prince Tennis Says:

@David: “What do you all think? If Fed wins the U.S. Open, will he be SI Sportsman of the Year? Arthur Ashe is the only male tennis player to win the award, and that was for his humanitarian pursuits. Chris Evert and Billie Jean King also have won it. No non-American has won the award since 1998 and that was Sammy Sosa as co-winner with American Mark McGwire. Wayne Gretzky is the last American to be sole recipient of the award.”

No, and it’s unfortunate that tennis is often overlooked in the media.

Federer is reminiscent of Tiger Woods in golf in terms of each player’s distinct dominance of their respective sports. It’s ultimately a good thing for tennis, as we can see that dominant players in every sport not only inject the sport with energy to grow the fan base, but inspire upcoming players to work twice as hard at becoming great. MJ inspired Kobe and Lebron, Montana and countless greats inspired Tom Brady, and the list goes on.

Also, I’d like to end with a final note. Prince Tennis is actually running a promotion right now to celebrate the upcoming U.S. Open by giving you the chance to test your tennis IQ and even win new gear. All you have to do is go to DoYouKnowPrince.com , take a tennis quiz, and be entered to win a chance at getting some new equipment. You can also join us on Facebook (http://www.Facebook.com/Official.Prince.Tennis) and Twitter (http://www.twitter.com/prince_tennis) for more daily opportunities to win complimentary Prince equipment and be recognized by Prince Tennis at the U.S. Open.

It’s a great time for tennis.


jane Says:

Von, Djoko’s been my top fave for a while, as you know and as I freely admit and pretty much everyone here knows. But that doesn’t negate what I said above, which you quoted above –”“There are so many players I like that it keeps it interesting; I don’t feel “latched” on to 1 player.” For example, when Djok loses I am not depressed, and I simply keep watching tennis! I always watch matches with many other players.

As for my recent concern; well, he just played in a final so a few people were talking about him and I joined in.

You know that I always root for Murray and often Rafa too. I’ve been cheering for Safin for ages when he plays, and Roddick too.

In addition, I’ve defended Rafa against Sean re: faking his knees; Murray for his supposedly “bad manners”; I’ve defended Roddick post-Wimbledon and in the past on these boards (for example recently when people made comments re: Brooklyn).

More specifically, since you bring it up, when he lost to Querrey I did indeed comment on his sickness – I agreed with both FoT and Abby that he seemed unwell (that he hunched over and asked for the towel between points) and I posted that, and also that it’s good he’ll get some rest pre-USO. It’s all on the relevant threads.

I did not mention concern over the USO draw; I was responding to tenisbebe’s comment that Rafa and Fed will be on the same side for sure, by noting that Djoko, when he was number 3, landed on both of their sides so it didn’t seem locked.

When I do comment on draws on these boards, I comment on many player’s positions and nemeses.

I wrote my post to you “speaking personally” even though I know yours was a general comment to blah. It was just a post I felt like addressing as there are many types of fans is all.

Anyway, sure I’ll leave the discussion behind.

Thanks for posting those links on Nadal and Djoko b.t.w. – both were interesting. I do hope Nadal is in the mix at the USO, since he could do something historic and then be back in the race for number 1 if he were to win it. But there are others I’d be happy to see win too.

It should be a lot of fun, this very “open” Open.


David Says:

Jane

The Open only becomes “open” if Fed loses. Otherwise it’s about as open as maybe the 1999 Wimbledon was.


jane Says:

David:

I just posted something about Fed/ the Open on another thread, but will reiterate it here. I agree that Fed is swinging freely, and more importantly, accurately. He’s also looking to attack. That said, Fed lost to Tsonga in Canada, and he was on the ropes against Ferrer in Cincy – David was up a set and a break and he HANDED the break back. Feel free to find the match and check it out; he played a really, really bad service game after getting the break. Also, while Fed won the French, he wasn’t “imperious” there, and nor was he in the Wimbledon final, which clearly could’ve gone Roddick’s way.

So it all depends on the day and the opponent. And I think it’s quite possible Fed could be upset. He’s obviously the betting favorite, but I am hoping someone else wins it.

Please, don’t close the door to the possibility. S**t happens you know. Maybe Fed’ll eat some bad chicken? ;)


David Says:

OK, I’m open to the possibility of an “open” Open :)


Von Says:

Eric @ $;26 pm bang on! The non-American tennis fans make a big deal over our TV coverage, especially the Canadians, and I feel if they want to see more TV tennis coverage of their faves, then the answer is simple, get their own independent feeds and stop relying on the US to provide for them.

I live in the US and I can tell you I see more of Federer and Nadal on my TV than I’ve seen of Sampras, Agassi, Roddick and any other Americans when they played and/or play. Roddick was a finalist at Wimby this year and not a darn bit of TV time is given to him in a commercial or anything related to that event, but at every turn I see Federer.

It’s unfair what the rest of the world wants from us, and the unjust criticisms are unjustified IMO. I’m sure in Switzerland, Spain, Serbia and the United Kingdom, their players are paraded non-stop and not as much as a shadow of the American players, so why is it wrong if our players are given some attention in their own country? Every country should take care of their own first, so why is the US being criticized? The answer is simple, because there are some who love to criticize the US for everything, as in their minds the US is such a bad country. And, the same goes for our US tennis players, they are hated a lot because they are Americans, and nothing else. sheesh.

I have to watch live streaming here in the US in order to watch an American play most of the time, but I can see Federer any time he plays. What’s wrong with this picture? I would suggest to all who are disgruntled about the TV coverage in the US to find live streaming and use it instead of complaining because the American tennis fans have to do the same. Do I like it? No, but it’s better than seeing nothing.

Tennis is a small part of the sports-world in the US and as such is given very little attention by the media. That lack of attention has got nothing to do with Americans not wanting to watch the sport or certain players. The same goes for the SI covers, we have too many sports and players to feature so if tennis players are not on the cover what’s the big deal? The foreign tennis players should be featured in the magazines of their own country, and I’m sure they are, hence why is it so important for SI to feature them also?


Nole's fan Says:

I’m impressed with Simon in Cincy, he toughed out his own frustration to win R2 and R3. But I’m not going to expect too much from him, as his knee tendonitis is bothering him much, he could barely run the later half of the 2nd set against Novak. It was hilarious (not in a amazing way) for a Nole fan like me. Simon was standing still and just trying to hit winner from wherever he was standing to end points and still, Nole couldn’t break him until 6-5. Even Nole played a very determined match against Rafa, he fell back to the uncertain player he was in the final. I’m not sure if Nole is mentally prepare to win anything big. Simon is physically hampered, his result will depend on how his knee fares.


Von Says:

tenisbebe: I was only kidding around with you on Djoko. I wanted to add that maybe I should spend a week with you too and get you over on roddick’s side for a while. LOL.

I’m so sory to hear about Baggy. As I said so much talent that’s not put to use.

Glad you saw what I was talking about ref. Mathieu. Poor guy he’s suffered a lot emotionlly due to his many DC losses. From his on-court persona, he appears to me as a very sweet and quiet guy, not to mention a rather handsome one also. LOL.


Von Says:

jane;

“I wrote my post to you “speaking personally” even though I know yours was a general comment to blah. It was just a post I felt like addressing as there are many types of fans is all.”

Thanks for the reply. I hope you understand that my comments were in no way meant for you but just airing my thoughts in general of how much I see fans shifting, and that’s all it was meant to convey. Anyway, onward and upward to the ‘open’ USO.


tenisbebe Says:

Von – sorry am babysitting and just now got back on line. Deal – we can spend a week hanging out talking tennis & perhaps I’ll become a Roddick “convert” LOL.

PHM – spoke to him once as he sat down next to me, asking first if the seat was taken in lovely French-accented English. He was very sweet but not exactly shy and even more handsome up close. Wink.


tenisbebe Says:

Nole’s fan – I didn’t know Simon had tendonitis. SO that’s what happened to him vs Novak. A proper epidemic.


Nole's fan Says:

Unfortunately for Simon, he’s been carrying this injury for 3 mths and it’s not getting any better. He probably needs a long break like Rafa, except that he can’t afford to since he has so many pts to defend. Tendonitis is the swine flu in the tennis world.

And speaking of scheduling, I really hope Nole can do something in this USO to improve his media power (or popularity). He’s definitely falling off the map in that catagory. He got the grandstand instead of center court and ESPN2 shown all the QF matches except Nole’s (they couldn’t have predicted that Benneateau and Ferrer both put up a fight though, could they?). He’s playing tournaments after tournaments under the radar, which is not a problem for me except it means his matches aren’t on tv no more. It’s not easy to be a Nole’s fan these days.


jane Says:

Nole’s fan: I usually get to watch most of Djoko’s matches because there are so many excellent streaming sites online. And I find the commentators to be quite positive about Novak. He has dropped to number 4, which may have something to do with his being put on the grandstand for his matches, or even court 14 at Wimbledon. But none of that should matter in the end. All he needs to do is return to his winning ways and that will help. He may’ve lost some popularity because he hasn’t had a great year in 2009 (compared to 07/08 anyhow), but he still seems to have a number of supporters. Let’s hope he can improve his results through the rest of the season, and win another title or two.


tenisbebe Says:

His match was last up on the day schedule quarterfinal day Friday (first Murray, then Fed, then Djoko, Nadal had the evening match) so am not too surprised that ESPN2 chose to air Murray, then Fed & then later that night Nadal. There were ALOT more Serbian fans this year that came in from all over the Midwest for Ana, JJ & Nole’s matches. It was fantastic because it heightened the international flavor of the event.

Thank for the info on Simon Nole Fan. Too, too bad!


Von Says:

tenisbebe:

You saw Djoko’s match on Sunday, did you know about the kecler as per the below article? Ii didn’t see anything on TV:

http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/115990-djokovic-gets-into-it-with-heckler?eref=fromSI


Von Says:

oops, kecler s/b ‘heckler’


margot Says:

blah: liked your picks and comments!
everyone: isn’t Simon a less good Andy M? Think TMF will go into USOpen supremely confident and difficult to stop. Don’t think it’ll be Rafa’s year.


jane Says:

hi margot – funny you should post just now as I was reading an article on Andy M. It’s not entirely glowing, but it chooses him as one of the ten reasons to watch the USO:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=4420981&name=espntennis

I think Murray and Djoko should hook up in NYC and hit about 1000 second serves to one another, hey? :)


jane Says:

Fed said this after his win over Murray when he was asked about how he did in Cincy vs. Montreal:

“I definitely think Ferrer and Hewitt, who are both baseliners gave my better rhythm for the semifinals today, for instance. Whereas maybe last week I wouldn’t have been so consistent off the baseline yet because I came through different type of players. You know, Tsonga who’s mixing it up a lot and doesn’t give you that much rhythm.”

I wonder if there is a little hint here? Don’t give Fed a chance to get into a rhythm? Don’t hang at the baseline but mix it up more? I don’t know but it seems like at least a possibility.


margot Says:

jane hi! thanx 4 link. Also just posted you on thread “Fed wins Cinci” Had to laugh at Longlivetheking’s letter from Rog., in a painful way…….


Skorocel Says:

“Maybe Fed’ll eat some bad chicken? ;)”

That was pretty cheap, jane


Skorocel Says:

Eric: „We’re a FAR CRY from the nonstop blowjob the British media gives Murray.“

David: „The Open only becomes “open” if Fed loses. Otherwise it’s about as open as maybe the 1999 Wimbledon was.“

LOL and LOL! :-)


jane Says:

It was a JOKE Skorocel; hence the wink I put after it. If you read the rest of my post to David, not to mention other posts I’ve written since Cincy, you’ll see that I am totally aware of the threat Fed that is to the rest of the field (I’ve said he’s the top fave to win the USO), but you also know I’d like to see some other guys win at the slams, and so I threw that comment in as a “last resort” joke. I wouldn’t truly wish illness on ANYONE.


jane Says:

Besides which, how come Eric’s comment about the British media & Andy Murray, which is far cruder than what I wrote, isn’t “cheap”?


Skorocel Says:

jane: If you really didn’t wish Fed these things, you wouldn’t have even written that sentence in the first place – wink or not.

About that Eric’s comment… Yes, it does sound a bit crude or vulgar, I agree. But then again, didn’t he write the truth?


jane Says:

No Skorocel – what Eric wrote is not the truth. I have read British articles that criticize Murray; I think there was one just recently about him by Barry Flatman. If anything, I think the pressure that country puts on him to win a slam is a detriment.

And about the Fed joke -feel free think that I would wish food poisoning on one of the best tennis players ever, if you’d like. But I know in my heart it was said in jest. I am happy for Fed that he looks so happy lately – in the Cincy ceremony he seemed so relaxed and blissful, like a new dad should. That doesn’t mean I wouldn’t like someone else to win the USO and so I cracked a joke because clearly Fed looks formidable at the mo.


jane Says:

But let me nonetheless apologize if what I said was not thought out in terms of how it might be taken – my bad and no offense intended.


Von Says:

jane: “No Skorocel – what Eric wrote is not the truth. I have read British articles that criticize Murray; I think there was one just recently about him by Barry Flatman. If anything, I think the pressure that country puts on him to win a slam is a detriment.”

I think you are straying from the crux of Eric’s post and some things are being taken out of context. If you were to back-track you’ll see he was merely defending the many criticisms of the TV coverage here in the US that US TV only favors the American players in its TV coverage, and it was to that he made a comparison of the Brits/Murray. In essence, Eric’s remarks were not an attack on Murray per se, but just the British media’s bias vs. the American TV coverage. Hence, your reference to the perceived pressure on Murray to win a slam by journalists/writers is not in any way, form or fashion pertinent to the real issue of Eric’s comments.


Eric Says:

Well, Jane, if you were offended by my comment, I apologize. And of course there are going to be critical articles every now and then, but I stand by my comment. I often follow tennis on the BBC website’s game-by-game update, so I visit their tennis news section quite often. Even now, for the past few days, they have had a special feature about how awesome Murray is:

“The following morning, the ATP ranking list was released and Murray saw himself sitting pretty at number two. He is the first man other than Federer or Nadal to get to number two since Lleyton Hewitt more than four years ago. Incredible…….Can he get to number one? Absolutely he can.” etc etc.

This, even though the whole world knows (as, to be fair, the article goes on to briefly acknowledge) that Murray’s rise to number 2 only happened because of Nadal’s injury. And in my view Djokovic too is a significantly better player, even if he hasn’t shown his potential this year as much as one might like.

Anyway, I did not mean to be too critical since there’s nothing wrong with celebrating a countryman’s sporting triumphs (even though I think it’s a bit silly to care about nationality in an individual sport), but I do object to all the misguided negativity directed towards US sports coverage and was merely pointing out that other places can be much “worse.”


jane Says:

No worries Eric; I wasn’t offended, hence I didn’t comment on your post earlier (most of which seemed fair enough to me – the context re: the USA press/coverage, which certainly doesn’t sing Roddick’s praises as much as they could, made sense).

I was merely trying to point out to Skorocel that my joke wasn’t really any worse that your comment about the “continuous blow job” in my opinion, and yet he laughed at yours and criticized mine.

And yet, admittedly, and in hindsight, what I wrote was more directed at the player rather than the media, and so I’ve offered an apology to any who care/were offended/will accept. I wrote that post in haste (was reiterating a comment from another thread) and the last bit in jest –thus I didn’t really think about how it could come off.

As for the BBC – I rarely go there. The comments on that blog (the one with the numbers … 606 is it?) are rabid! LOL.

I was talking more about the Times or Telegraph, reputable papers that’ll call Murray out for being too passive etc. Those same papers will rightfully praise the winner of a match too.

Anyway … moving on.


huh Says:

“jane Says:
There’s also Tsonga; remember, he just beat Fed, he’s beaten almost all of the other potential contenders at least once (except JMDP, I think), and he’s been in a hard court slam final. He’s a dark horse at slams, imo. You never know with him.

Very true.

“NachoF Says:
I would hate it if Nadal ended up on Fed’s side of the draw… these two are made to play epic finals against each other.”

Don’t understand this , what’s the problem if they face each other before finals? Even if Fed and Rafa lose in the first round at any slam, it doesn’t mean the slam would automatically become unworthy of being watched. Anyone can be our favourite, like mine is Fed, but that doesn’t mean Murray/Djokovic/Roddick/Tsonga/Del Potro can’t give me or others a great slam final. I mean, some matches may look lopsided like the 2008 AO semifinals, but both the semis of AO 08 consisted of tennis of highest quality, and I for one marvelled at the level of play of Djokovic and Tsonga to trounce Fed and Rafa respectively over there. So I don’t think a final sans Fed/Rafa may not give us an epic, especially if the guys like Murray/Djoko/Roddick/Tsona/Del Po play to their potential, which is pretty incredible, strictly speaking. The heavens would remain undisturbed even if Fed and Rafa face each other before a slam final, in my humble opinion.

” Von Says:
It appears that baghdatis is really going down the tubes and at an accelerated pace too. Too bad for Marcos as he’s got so much talent, an infectious and warm personality, not to mention his beautiful smile.”

Completely agree.

“jane Says:
Besides which, how come Eric’s comment about the British media & Andy Murray, which is far cruder than what I wrote, isn’t “cheap”?”

Exactly… Eric’s comment re: Murray and British media is very very cheap.


Von Says:

I don’t know, but it seems that some things are selectively being blown out of proportion here with respect to the US TV media and a comment made using the British media’s bias concerning Murray as a comparison, which some find to be offensive and cheap. What’s more of a concern to me is the selcctivity of what’s cheap and what’s not in the eyes of some posters.

This discussion began with a complaint on the US TV coverage of tennis and its perceived bias by some towards American players vs. non-American players. In some discussions the US TV organizers were overly criticized and a comment was made, which to me, was a gross insult toward the American sports fans and Americans as a nation on the whole, concerning our perceived and/or alleged ignorance of the Tour de France. However, that comment was selectively overlooked and only a comment made in a comparison of the British media’s coverage featuring Murray incurred the ire of some posters and umbrage taken with respect to the remarks on that comparison. What’s wrong with this picture?

Let’s weigh the facts: On one hand we have American TV organizers being accused of bias towards American players. Added to that, the insulting remarks on a whole nation being perceived as ‘ignorant’ with respect to the existence of the Tour de France. Then on the other other hand, we have a comparison in passing, of the British media’s ad nauseam reporting on Murray. I’d like to ask which scenario is worse and/or cheap if we want to be fair and/or noble?

As a US citizen, and one who is cognizant of the many sports in the world, I take umbrage to the remarks on the perceived ignorance of the US citizens with respect to the Tour de France. How relevant and/or of what significance was this remark to the discussion of limited TV coverage of non-American players? Was this remark necessary? Hardly likely, and was a very cheap shot at a whole nation. IMO.


Veno Says:

Hey Von:

I have a good book you should read:
I think you’ll love it. It’s about human behaviour, in particular what determines their decision -making :)

It’s called: Predictably Irrational written by Dan Ariely

And for anyone who likes to see some pics of Cincy…see link below:

http://picasaweb.google.com/chinekwu/CincyTennis?feat=directlink#


Skorocel Says:

jane: Even if you viewed it as a “last resort” type of scenario for the other players to win the USO, I can’t help but state it was kind of unnecessary… I mean, if I wanted (or better said “welcomed”, or “didn’t mind”) a scenario where Fed had injured or poisoned himself, I would still be perfectly aware that no matter who would win the trophy, he would have that question mark of not beating Fed, or at least not beating the player who beat Fed, or the player who beat the player who beat Fed, and so on. In other words, I would be aware of the fact that Fed wasn’t playing, which would automatically devalue the winner’s success a bit (at least in my mind certainly). Or, to put it in other way, it wouldn’t bring me that much of a joy when someone else than Fed had won a tournament in which the Swiss wanted but couldn’t compete as opposed to a scenario where someone had beaten him fair and square.

I know Roger was, is, and will be the last player who you’ll root for, but come on, why he had to be poisoned? Because he’s just won Cincy by beating Murray and Djoker, and thus “made” almost everyone think he’s the undisputed No. 1 favourite for the USO? LOL! You may think so, but I don’t think he’s played THAT great in Cincy. It was a very solid effort, but nothing spectacular. Heck, I would even go as far as to say that his performance in Montreal up until that 5-1 score in the 3rd set against Tsonga was pretty much the same. Yeah, he beat Andy and Novak, but both of these matches could’ve easily gone into 3rd set – where, as we all know, Fed’s anything but stellar in 2009…


sar Says:

Q. I heard that there was a possibility for you and Rafa to play doubles here in Cincinnati; is that true?
NOVAK DJOKOVIC: Yeah, that’s true. Unfortunately he wasn’t ready physically to play singles and doubles, so he just decided to play singles. Maybe we have chance in the future.

They have the same manager so I think they will put this together someday. Maybe that’s why they are appearing together at NASDAQ. Besides, Rafa and Novak have friendly relations.

Congrats on Nestor/Z’s win! What a crazy match! As Nestor said in his trophy speech, they pulled that one out of their ***. But I suppose that’s only fair as the Bryan’s did the same thing Sat nite in the semi after losing the 1st set 6-0. This was Z’s first major title

Tenisbebe:This was z’s first Cincy title. All the others won this a few times before. Terrific match.

Since he’s not American, British, French or Australian, or a global icon like Fed, organizers aren’t going to hesitate to jerk him around

David, so true. Jane, Novak was the only one of the top four who was on grandstand.

both of these matches could’ve easily gone into 3rd set

Skorocel, true, they both had set points.

I thought Fed at the final was very nice when he asked the crowd to applaud for Novak. I don’t think they hate each other anymore. This was a fantastic tournament since the top 4 were all there at the end. Nice meeting Tenisbebe. She made it all fun. We had never been to a tournament before and she showed us the ropes. We are going back next year.


jane Says:

Skorocel – Trust me, I would love to see the other guys beat him “fair and square” with no reasons or asteriks.

I was joking before, please believe me!!! I honestly have no “major” problem with Federer; I just don’t root for him. Admittedly, he’s not my favorite guy on the tour; admittedly, I don’t like some things he says and does. But so what? I don’t like some things Djoko or Murray say and do either. But for whatever reason I just like them better and root for them. I don’t know why except that I never really “took” to Fed even as far back as 2004, and eventually, I tired of him winning everything, so then I definitely didn’t cheer for him and cheered for the guys who’d at least step up and challenge him.

I agree with you, actually, that Fed didn’t play *that* well at Cincy (e.g., against Ferrer).

HOWEVER, this is why I’d pick Fed as the top fave for the USO.

Federer is one of the BEST guys at toughing out mediocre matches and saving his BEST for LAST and particularly at the SLAMS. I have truly noticed this about him, ever since last year’s USO.

For example: he was on the ropes at the USO 2008 against Andreev, but he came through and when he needed to play his best against Murray in the final, he did. At the AO 2009, he was on the ropes against Berdych, but again, he toughed it out and was conquered only by Nadal in the finals. At the French, both Haas and especially JMDP had him on the ropes, but once again, he toughed those matches out and beat Soderling fairly easily in the final. At Wimbledon, he was up against it with Roddick, but he won anyhow. And at Cincy, Ferrer had him down a set and a break, but Fed nevertheless found his way through that match, and really upped his level for Djoko and Murray.

So basically, Federer seems to be the best player right now in big matches, at least until Rafa is 100% better. He doesn’t crack and he bides his time, rides out the rough patches usually. So while he wasn’t the best ever throughout Cincy (though he looked excellent imo vs. both Murray and Djoko), given that he has won 5 US Opens in a row and that he has confidence and momentum right now, I do think he is easily the favorite.

Still, I won’t rule out the possibility of an upset of course; there are a number of good players right now and if they get their acts together and hang tough – who knows? Maybe they can beat a healthy, happy, confident and free-swinging Federer. You say ” Fed’s anything but stellar in 2009…” but surely he’s been pretty stellar since Madrid? He’s won every tournament he’s entered except Canada, including two master series (Madrid and Cincy) and two slams (RG and SW19) – that’s STELLAR to me! : -)

Listen Skorocel – I respect both your opinions and you as a longtime poster here, and I am sincerely sorry I made that joke in hindsight, but that’s all I can do is apologize; I didn’t mean to offend you or any other Federer fans.


jane Says:

sar – it’s great to hear that you and tenisbebe had such a nice time. I agree with you; it seems like Djoko has earned respect from both Fed, and Rafa, and by turns he speaks very highly of them in his interviews. Novak is maturing before our eyes in many ways.


David Says:

Skorocel

“If you really didn’t wish Fed these things, you wouldn’t have even written that sentence in the first place – wink or not.”

Come on. That’s being a bit harsh, no? She was responding to my comment about the Open being Fed’s to lose and was just saying that strange things happen in sports. Saying someone “could get food poisoning” is NOT the same thing as saying “I hope that player gets food poisoning.”


David Says:

Jane:

I think there’s a strong argument that Fed is not only “one of the best” at toughing out mediocre matches, but possibly “the greatest” at toughing out mediocre matches across every surface in the history of tennis.

I mean 21 freaking consecutive Slam semifinals?!?! In this day and age?

His consistency truly is mindboggling.


jane Says:

David – “mindboggling consistency.” How does he do it? It freaks me out, and it makes me a little aggravated since no one else can win! Sheesh!


sensationalsafin Says:

Thank God for Roger Federer! I was watching the Nalbandian-Roddick 03 USO semi where Roddick came back from 2 sets to love down to win. Wow, tennis was in pretty bad shape that year. Both players weren’t even half the players they’ve become. Even though Nalbandian is much tougher mentally, I’ve seen him play some perfect tennis in his day. I mean awesome defense, offense, serving, volleying, etc. Yet in this match, he just got balls back. He had a pretty big arsenal but he simply counter punched. Now I see why it’s so insulting to call Murray or even Simon a counter puncher. I guess you can say counter punchers have come a long way. Then there’s Roddick. Wow did he suck. His technique from forehand to net play was atrocious. He had no game plan except for blast forehands; forehands that were either too hard for Nalby to return or forehands that hit the back wall. His serve was HUGE, but that’s all it was. Watching Roddick play now is like watching a COMPLETELY different person. I’ve said it before, 03, when Roddick won his lone slam, it was a completely different era. Roddick deserves a slam in this era simply because he’s become incredibly good. But back then. Both of them. Jeez. Thank you Roger.


africanck Says:

JANE
Really loved your observations JANE on Fed’s toughness.
Its great to read someone who is really into tennis. And yes that dude needs to lighten up..about the bad chicken joke(and yes his comment was extremely crude), that’s maybe one of the few things that could throw off Fed. What about lack of sleep? due to his new twins?

Great examples
{For example: he was on the ropes at the USO 2008 against Andreev, but he came through and when he needed to play his best against Murray in the final, he did}. At the AO 2009, he was on the ropes against Berdych, but again, he toughed it out and was conquered only by Nadal in the finals. At the French, both Haas and especially JMDP had him on the ropes, but once again, he toughed those matches out and beat Soderling fairly easily in the final. At Wimbledon, he was up against it with Roddick, but he won anyhow. And at Cincy, Ferrer had him down a set and a break, but Fed nevertheless found his way through that match, and really upped his level for Djoko and Murray.} —-Why did he play so well against these guys and so crap against Ferrer who he has owned in his carreer?

How does he do it with all the Semi-final appearances?
I also understand peoples frustration with him winning so many slams. I would love to Tsonga or Simon or Novack win one or two. Simon is an awsome player and has beaten Nadal a couple of times when Nadal was at his best.
But Fed is a true gentleman , and now that he is more relaxed he might be tougher to beat. But I would say either Murray or Novack in this final with Fed or Roddick


Von Says:

Veno:

“I have a good book you should read:
I think you’ll love it. It’s about human behaviour, in particular what determines their decision -making :)

“It’s called: Predictably Irrational written by Dan Ariely”

Thanks for this information. I googled it and it seems very interesting — Ill try to purchase a copy. Conicdentally, a few chapters of one of my texts books on human development, focused on the decision making process and why people engage in irrational behaviour; it’s quite fascinating really. Also, what’s the underlying motive when we praise and/or criticize others.


Von Says:

Sar: “Since he’s not American, British, French or Australian, or a global icon like Fed, organizers aren’t going to hesitate to jerk him around

“David, so true. Jane, Novak was the only one of the top four who was on grandstand.”

Do you guys actually believe what you’re saying? I’m hoping you’re not serious. Take a look at Wimby and on what courts Roddick played. Also back track to Madrid and the FO and check out on which courts Roddick and Murray were scheduled to play on (they didn’t even practice on those courts and were ticked off). Added to that how little recovery time Roddick was given between his late 11:00 pm match and his the next day’s match where he had to play during the day. Additionally, at the FO, Roddick had to play on the outside courts and one of his matches in the dark, even though he said he couldn’t see the ball, he was told he had to keep on playing. Both of these guys (Roddick and Murray) are from the countries you mentioned, so your conspiracy postulation does not hold true, IMO.

I’ll agree that he Nos. 1 and 2 players do get preferential treatment, but it’s due to their ranking and nothing else (this wasn’t so for Nadal at the FO) For instance, when Roddick was ranked 3 and 4 back in ’07, his name was hardly ever mentioned by the tennis world, because only 1 and 2 matters. Djoko and Murray are mentioned all of the time. I remember in Toronto ’07, Jason Goodall stated with respect to Roddick in his match v. Djoko that they (the commentators) only seem to dwell on the top 2, and at times, forget that Roddick is the No.3 player. Then Jason asked a question out loud (which floored me) “I wonder why”? I know Sar says they are very critical of Djoko (even being pro-Polansky at Montreal), but did you ever listen to them in ’07 through pre-Wimby how very critical they were of Roddick? It was very difficult to listen to them and I muted my TV many times. John McEnroe praises Djoko all of the time and lavisly criticizes Roddick, and guess what, David, Roddick’s American, the same as John McEnroe.

I think Djokovic gets a lot of mention by the commentators and he does receive equal treatment, with respect to playing on some courts, for his status similar to the past Nos. 3 and 4 players (one being American), and to me even more than they did. However, everything is a matter of perception and you are all entitled to your opinions, but I’m sorry I’m not buying it, because it’s not really true in the grand scheme of things. I’d think if your perceived slights is indeed the case with Djoko, it should give him an added incentive to win and then demand the respect you all feel he should be given by letting his racquet do the talking. I’d think the time scheduling of matches should be of pivotal importance, but not the court on which he plays, because if a player is to win, he’ll win on any court. Anyway, to each his/her own.


Von Says:

I watched the TC broadcast of the ’03 Roddick/Nalbandian SF also. Didn’t Nalbandian beat Federer at the ’03 USO en-route to the SF? Then if Nalby and Roddick were supposedly that bad, what does that say of the other players’ level of play during that period?


Von Says:

correction: @1:53 pm,

“but did you ever listen to them in ‘07 through pre-Wimby how very critical they were of Roddick?”

should be: but did you ever listen to them in ’07 through *’09* pre-Wimby ….


jane Says:

Von says “I’d think the time scheduling of matches should be of pivotal importance, but not the court on which he plays, because if a player is to win, he’ll win on any court. ”

I mainly agree with this statement Von; it’s the timing and turn around that is more difficult for the players to adjust to. Playing in twilight/darkness, consistent heat, or having a very short recovery time, switching from day to night, day to night. That sort of thing is MUCH worse than where a match is played, imo.

However, I do feel what Wimbledon did this year with deciding who played on center court for the women’s matches -i.e., looks over ranking – was despicable and sexist. YUCK!

For the men’s, the “grandstand” matches are fine with me, as the court and space around is basically the same, even the atmosphere is still very good on the grandstands or court two venues it seems to me.

It’s when the players get onto the further outside courts, especially after playing most matches on center court and/or grandstand, that the shift in size/atmosphere *might* be a factor. For example, there is less space for running/retrieving on those distant courts at the FO, so a player like Rafa may (?) be affected. Or not…

As Von says – a player SHOULD be able to adjust to these sorts of things. Djoko was put on the SW19 court they call “the graveyard of champions” this year, but he survived just fine. LOL.

The scheduling/timing for recovery etc will be more of a factor for the players generally.


jane Says:

aficanck asks “Why did he play so well against these guys and so crap against Ferrer who he has owned in his carreer?”

This is what I’ve wondered many times about Roger; why did Berdych, Tipsy, Andreev, JMDP not pull out those wins? Most of them, at one point, had the upper hand in their matches.

As you can probably tell from my posts, while I appreciate Fed’s accomplishments, I am not a Federer fan, so I am always trying to figure out “how does he do it?” rather than ‘basking in the glow’ like many. I am quite critical when I watch his matches.

So a couple theories:

1. Sometimes Fed just ups his level when he needs to, when he knows he’s on the ropes.

2. Sometimes he just hangs tough and waits/hopes for the other guy to crack … which brings me to:

3. Sometimes it’s “aura”. I do think there is something about “aura” and Fed; when he has that unbeatable aura around him (i.e., when he is taking a dominant H2H into a match), the players sometimes “crack” under the pressure/shock of realizing how close they are. So they’re winning and may think, “I can’t beat Federer”, can I?

Case in point: Ferrer at Cincy. Ferrer was out-playing Roger that day, as Fed had come out pretty flat, but knowing he’d basically dominated David in their 8-0 record. But David had come to play. And he was winning, and in my opinion, SHOULD have won that match, but he got up a break in the second set after winning the first 6-3, and I believe it’s quite possible he got tight and he had a ind of mental collapse; in other words, he couldn’t believe he was finally so close to turning that record in a different direction! He absolutely BLEW his next service game to consolidate the break.

Berdych at the AO is another classic example; I think he really unraveled in that match. He should’ve won it.

JMDP and Tipsy were closer affairs that could’ve gone either way probably all the way through.

Against players like Murray and Djok at Cincy, it was clear to me that Fed came onto the court knowing that they had beaten him before and recently, so he may’ve been more ready/prepared for the match. It’s like when he meets Roddick – even though he has a great record against him, many of their matches were SUPER close and could’ve gone the other way so Fed brings his best generally.

Anyhow, this is all mere speculation / ideas in answer to your own pondering.


David Says:

Jane:

Excellent post. I agree totally with what you say about Roddick. Fed knows he’s got to bring his best game against Andy because Roddick – despite the h2h – is never going to accept that he should lose. Obviously, he’s got that great serve too and that always makes him dangerous.

But I’d contrast Roddick with say Ljubicic, who also has a great serve. But you never get the sense from Ljubicic that he ever really wanted these big titles the way Roddick does.


Von Says:

jane: “Djoko was put on the SW19 court they call “the graveyard of champions” this year, but he survived just fine. LOL.”

The ‘graveyard’ court has been refurbished and it’s a very nice court now. Roddick had to play on that court many times in the past and so did many other top players. I’ve heard Roddick state this year that he didn’t care where they put him because he’s not in the conversation. Sampras was put there to play toward the end of his career and he didn’t like it, because his ego got in the way, and he lost.

I only addressed this topic of which court a player is scheduled to play on due to the argument that’s being used now of Djokovic’s perceived ‘jerking around’ and ‘underdog’ treatment due to his nationality, and I honestly think that this is not a valid argument as it happens to most players. If anyone had a legit argument it would be Nadal at the FO, but for anyone else, then it’s par for the course.

Another important point with respect to the USO and preference given to the Americans, doesn’t this happen in France, and Spain, where there players are given preference, so why is it the Americans are being singled out?

**************
I don’t know but I find so many topics are being re-worked and re-hashed over and over ad infinitum. It’s one of the reasons I don’t comment very much on player’s match play, and players pressers, because we hear this stuff from the commentators when the match is being played, and then it’s written in articles by tennis writers. And then, when we come here to post, we see the same details mentioned in posters’ comments, and some of those comments seem to be taken verbatim from the commentators and articles, and just transplanted here in some posts, which leaves me wondering how many of us really know the sport and or watch it intently. Maybe, I’m just becoming bored with posting. Anyway, onward and upward for the time being and hopefully we’ll have an injection of some new and fresh ideas ….


Von Says:

David:

“I agree totally with what you say about Roddick. Fed knows he’s got to bring his best game against Andy because Roddick – despite the h2h – is never going to accept that he should lose. Obviously, he’s got that great serve too and that always makes him dangerous.”

Myself and NachoF and a few other posters had this same discussion way back, where NachoF made the same observation that Federer brings his ‘A” game when he plays Roddick. At that time i mentioned to NachoF that’s a huge compliment to roddick from Federer without Federer even saying so. It’s one of the reasons Federer plays Roddick so tough, because he knows at the back of his head that one slip, and Roddick could win. Moving on ……


jane Says:

David:

I think the reverse is true occasionally with Fed – particularly against Nadal, but even against Tsonga in Montreal, and sometimes against Djok, Murray, any threats. Fed has “cracked”, or whatever you want to call it, against these guys at times, too, when they have refused to go away. They’ve hung tough too; for example, when Fed was up a set and a break over Djoko at Rome, Novak didn’t give in but stayed with Fed, and, eventually, won. Or that crazy final with Nadal at Monte Carlo last year when Fed was winning the second set, what, 5-1? But Nadal comes back and wins it 7-5 or something?

Part of that is just down to Nadal – I mean, I NEVER say he’s lost a match until the final ball is struck; he is way too focused and mentally tough for that. That IW match with Nalbandian this year, or against Tsonga in 2008, same venue – it was just insane how Rafa hung on and wons those matches by fighting for the break and raising his level when he gets momentum. Players should know they just cannot take the pedal off the gas until they’ve crossed the finished line against Rafa. “Forget-about-it!”


jane Says:

Von I think the lull causes some of us to rehash, review, or whatever. Also the arrival of newer posters brings up repeated conversations (like africanck is new I think? David are you new? ;))

But it’ll be nice when the matches begin again so there are on-going things on which to comment.


David Says:

Von:

I was talking about Roddick (possibly) getting preferential treatment at the USO only. Murray at Wimbledon only. I’m sure Hewitt would at AO, etc.

Again, as I clarified above, no type of scheduling favoritism will even matter if conditions are normal, meaning there isn’t rain over several days or a record heat wave.

And I also mentioned somewhere that guys like Djokovic and JMDP who can’t expect favoritism of any sort at any Slams should be using this as extra motivation, not to make excuses, even if only to themselves.

Anyway, it’s funny how some little side comment fuels a multiple post debate. The only reason I said it was because I just find the players who aren’t the darlings of the tournament organizers/sponsors to be likable underdogs. But that’s just my opinion.


Von Says:

David: “Anyway, it’s funny how some little side comment fuels a multiple post debate.”

So very, very true! I felt badly for Eric, who does not post here very often, and it’s why I chimed in (plus the slight on the Americans’ lack of Tour de France knowledge indicating we’re somewhat ‘dumb’ in that regard), because all he did was make a comparison between the US and Brit media, and was pretty much lambasted for using a ‘cheap, cheap’ remark’. LOL


sar Says:

Yes, people are going to perceive “injustices” in their own way. There is nothing we can do to alter these “slights.” Let’s just agree to disagree.

I think this Rafa/ Djokovic appearance will do them some good. NASDAQ and then future doubles?


David Says:

Jane:

I have posted here before, but it’s been a while. I certainly didn’t mean to get the American tennis fans riled up by suggesting that American players could get favored by organizers. I’ll stay away from that topic in the future! Anyway, if there ever has been favoritism, like maybe that 1987 semifinal with the Swedish protest, the same thing could have happened at another Slam to favor some other nationality. I didn’t mean to single out U.S. tournament officials.

I should also add that the guys that do win in their own country deserve a lot of admiration for dealing with all the pressure and attention. It would certainly be incredible if Murray can win Wimby, for example.


Von Says:

David:

footnote @ 3:29 pm, Roddick has *on-court presence*, Ljubicic does not.


David Says:

Von:

For me Roddick is one of the great underrated competitors of his generation, right up there with Fed and Hewitt. Nadal I suppose stands apart.

He may not have the talent of some other guys, but he gives the fans their money’s worth every time out.

But if his competitiveness his underrated, I think his forehand is one of the most overrated shots in tennis. I don’t know how many times I’ve heard some commentator say Roddick has a big forehand. And I’m thinking to myself I can name 20 other players with a better fh than Roddick.


Von Says:

David:

True, Roddick’s FH is not the very best, but it’s a weapon nonetheless that he has and can use it very effectively if he so chooses. Back in ’03 his forehand was a formidable weapon, but after that he seemed to only care about bis serve and he let that weapon do most of the winning. It’s the reason why he fell off so badly, but with the advent Stefanki in the picture, Andy’s beginning to incorporate a bit of everything back into his game, and as such, he’s again back in the conversation.

I like to watch Roddick play for his ‘presence’ ‘swagger’ and the ‘electricity’ he brings to the court during his matches. You can deduce that I like players with a bit of spice, and boy do we see ‘spicy’ Roddick on display at times. LOL.


africanck Says:

Jane

Thanks really appreciated your thoughts and the ‘aura’ one really made sense. It seems that if he has owned the player he walks on the court knowing the percentages are in his favor(and that most of the guys go into the match thinking man I hope I can beat this guy!, too much fear) and even if he plays mediocre he still wins most of the time. But with Nadal even Murray and Djoker they have all beaten him more then once so he really knows he has to play well. But still it is tough to figure the guy out. But I really like your thoughts.
Even if your not a Fed fan as I have noticed from your past comments as well, at least you appreciate how good he is. I also agree it would be nice to spread the grand slams around to some of the other guys as well.


David Says:

Von:

It was really evident to me during Roddick’s match with Querry that Sam’s technique is much better on the forehand side. He’s got that loose whip action with his arm and just effortlessly creates a ton of power. Whereas with Roddick he does tend to muscle the ball just a little bit and that’s what Fed, Nadal, Gonzo, Verdasco, Andreev, etc. don’t do and why their forehands are such huge weapons. I worked with a coach a few years ago who tried to get the stiffness out of my arm on the forehand, but it really is difficult to do. Hewitt’s another one who I think doesn’t have the greatest technique on the forehand, but it’s not something you can develop once you’re on the pro tour. You’ve got to learn that as a junior.


Von Says:

David:

We need to send Roddick to a Parisian culinary arts school learning to crack eggs, and that might loosen up his wrist as in souffle’. LOL. As they say in France, ‘it’s all in the w[r]ist’. The loose wrist is one of the reasons Federer’s FH and strokes appear to be so easy/loose because he played squash.

I think Sam’s and DelPotro’s FHs are very powerful/strong as in strength, and I’ve noticed that Roddick’s FH power has been slowly diminishing throughout the years. Now, I’m just speculating, but I’ve noticed that ever since Andy hurt his shoulder last year (’08), there has been a subtle drop-off in his serves (amount) and his FH. And, I’m not trying to make excuses for him, but it’s just a personal observation and could be way off. I also believe that Andy is cognizant of this fact and it’s one of the reasons he’s decided to change to an all-court game, since he’s unable to crack those powerful serves and FHS as he’s once done …. pure speculation …..


Skorocel Says:

jane: Allright, I accept your apologies. And no, I’m not offended :-) Why should I? Federer’s not my brother, nor do I owe him something, so I’ll leave it at that.

Agree that Fed is tough to beat in slams. The fact is, since the year he’s won his first slam (i.e. 2003), he’s decisively lost only 4 times in slams (against Horna at FO 2003, Kuerten at FO 2004, Djokovic at AO 2008, and Nadal at FO 2008), which pretty much speaks for itself. Still, though, I wouldn’t be that sure about his „almost guaranteed“ triumph at the forthcoming USO – especially if he meets someone like Murray or (most importantly) Nadal. I badly want him to face the Spaniard, as it will more or less give us a clue as to who’s the best player in 2009.

P.S. You probably misread my last post. I didn’t mean „Fed not being stellar in 2009“. I meant „Fed not being stellar in the deciding sets of a best-of-3-sets matches.“


Skorocel Says:

Correction: Should’ve added “in 2009″ to that last sentence.


David Says:

Von:

I’m surprised you’d say Roddick can no longer “crack those powerful serves.” And we’re only how far removed from that Wimbledon final, in which he held serve about 30-some-odd straight times? :)

But I’m telling you that forehand is overrated and it always has been.

But getting back to technique, I agree with what you say about the wrist, but it’s part of an overall looseness in the arm. That arm needs to be like spaghetti going through the zone (my own culinary contribution to this debate). You can be a top player without that. Even Ferrer’s arm is a bit stiff, but guys like Verdasco who can cold-clock forehand winners from five feet behind the baseline have the technique in the arm and wrist down perfectly. Del Potro I wouldn’t put in the same league in terms of loose power. Better than Roddick, but not a top-tier forehand either.


jane Says:

Skorocel: Peace, man. I think there are MANY who’d love to see a Nadal vs. Fed SEMI – seems so weird to say that – SEMI! I suppose it could be a final too, if they are not on the same side of the draw. Still it’s tough to say if Nadal is 100% well and whether or not he’d make it that deep for that to happen. You might have to wait until the YEC to see that match up again?

Re: “I meant „Fed not being stellar in the deciding sets of a best-of-3-sets matches.“” – I guess this is true, but he didn’t have to play them in the semi or final at Cincy (nor vs. Rafa in Madrid), so maybe he’s aware of that particular issue and that’s why he’s come out of the gates so strongly attacking.

——————————————-
africanck: “I also agree it would be nice to spread the grand slams around to some of the other guys as well.”

Especially now that Fed has 15 of them, and likely more to come.

——————————————–
Von says Eric “was pretty much lambasted for using a ‘cheap, cheap’ remark’. LOL”

I hope you’re kidding! I surely didn’t “lambast” Eric. I just (a) thought the “blowjob” comment was a little on the vulgar side and (b) felt that it’s not entirely true, since Murray, while heavily supported by the British media no doubt, is also pressured and criticized by them at times too; media attention cuts both ways – one day the hero; the next day the villain/wimp/failure, etc.
Anyhow, I made it quite clear to Eric that I was not overly offended by his remark, and that the context of my remarks were otherwise directed (i.e., towards my conversation with Skorocel).

———————————————-
David says “That arm needs to be like spaghetti going through the zone”

You can indeed see this looseness in Querrey’s forehand; I’d sure like to see Sam break through and win a masters title or something.

How would you rate Cilic’s and Djoko’s forehands?


Veno Says:

I, Jane, for one am a fan of Novak’s fh. It’s a pity he doesn’t always move forward through the flat ones he hits inside-in, but when he rips one of those wowzersssss. He had 2 after 10+ strokes against Fed which were sublime. Would like to see him use the shot more.


Veno Says:

And Cilic’s reminds me of JMDP’s fh. They both don’t arc the arm movement through the ball(think of Nadal swinging the after swing over his head and down) but they hit in almost a hrizontal plane through the ball when hitting it. That’s why imo they both have difficulties hitting inside-out winners with their fhs.


jane Says:

Thanks for your take on Djok’s forehand Veno; he used it as a weapon in that one slam win over Fed at the AO, even targeting Fed’s forehand in the process. But it’s tough to gage since he was, for all intents and purposes, kind of “in the zone” that night. Painting the lines, hitting corners, and so forth.

BTW, I looked up the book you recommended to Von. It sounds fascinating: the “economics” (!) of decision making, how we’re not in control when we think we are, etc. And there’s a youtube video in which the author talks too.


David Says:

Jane:

I haven’t seen that much of Cilic, but he seems to slap at the ball a little bit and I don’t think he imparts enough spin to be able to use his forehand as a consistent weapon. Like I said, though, I need to watch him play a bit more. JMDP’s is a more consistent reliable shot, but he doesn’t have enough racquet head speed I don’t think to really have a big weapon. Djokovic’s is obviously one of the best. Again, maybe not quite the racquet head speed of Fed, Nadal, Verdasco, but he’s up there.

Interestingly, besides harping about not muscling the ball, that same coach I mentioned was really big on what he described as “tracking the ball,” literally watching the ball into the strings. Of all the players, the only one I notice (in photos) doing that on both forehand and backhand are Fed and Nadal. Is that just a coincidence? Even Djoko, Murray and Roddick are not looking at the ball at contact on their forehands.


Veno Says:

Ah Jane, I do recommend reading the book if you like those kind of topics.

And I for one am hoping Novak will make further steps during the Open to get back to his top level. I like his demeanor better and he seems to learn to be more “in balance” on court. I hope get’s rid of the negative body language though. It’s better than it was, but he still has to improve there(shaking his head, rolling his eyes, muttering and looking at his team in the box)

Let’s face it, the guy is unbelievably talented(far more than Andy Murray, but then again, Andy has a stronger mentality and I suspect is more willing to make the sacrifices…then again, it’s easier for Murray because he hasn’t won a slam yet)


Veno Says:

Nice to read your insights David, and you make some interesting points. If you look at the slo-mo clips on you tube of Fed you’ll see how remarkably long he keeps his eyes on the hit-point after the ball has long left his racket.


Veno Says:

Hey Von: Sam Q won his 1/8 final match against Bjorn Phau in straights and reaches the quarters at Pilot Pen. This means Sam Querry wins the 2009 US Open Series.


Von Says:

David: Roddick does not bring the heat as he used to and rarely does — his serves used to be up in the 140s now it’s around the low 130s. If you remember in that Wimby final he was out-aced by Federer.
_______________
jane:

“Von says Eric “was pretty much lambasted for using a ‘cheap, cheap’ remark’. LOL”

“I hope you’re kidding! I surely didn’t “lambast” Eric.”

What you didn’t do, others did — you started the ball rolling by using it as a comparison, and then you had a chorus echoing you.

“I just (a) thought the “blowjob” comment was a little on the vulgar side”

It had nothing to do with your discussion with Skorocel and you used it as leverage to make a comparison to detract from the heat on yourself.

“. and (b) felt that it’s not entirely true, since Murray, while heavily supported by the British media no doubt, is also pressured and criticized by them at times too; media attention cuts both ways – one day the hero; the next day the villain/wimp/failure, etc.”

Here, again as you’ve previously done, you’re deviating from the crux of the subject matter which concerned the American media being criticized for not broadcasting enough of non-American Players’ matches and the British media was used as a comparison of its airing of Murray’s matches, et al. To reiterate and recap, the discussion was NOT about the “American players” it was about the “American media” not showing enough of non-American players’ matches.

“Anyhow, I made it quite clear to Eric that I was not overly offended by his remark, and that the context of my remarks were otherwise directed (i.e., towards my conversation with Skorocel)

You should not have been offended period by the remark since it was meant as a comparison to the British media, and should have not even been referenced because the two matters were like East and West. Further, he American media/British media had nothing whatsoever do do with yours and Skorocel’s discussion which featured ‘bad chicken’. I think it’s best to leave it alone.


Von Says:

David: “Even Djoko, Murray and Roddick are not looking at the ball at contact on their forehands.”

The deficiency in most players is hand/eye coordination and their inability to keep the ball in their line of vision until they connect to it with their racquets. Nalbandian has that type of eye/hand coordination.

I’ll make a joke here, but in some ways I think it’s true, Roddick has poor vision — he thinks he sees what he doesn’t see and vice versa. LOL.


Von Says:

Veno: Thanks for the info on Sam’s USO points. However, in order for Sam to collect any money on the points he needs to win, be a finalist and/or a semi-finalist (I could be wrong here). Anyway, I don’t see Sam making it to the second week of the USO, but we’ll see.


David Says:

Von:

It is true that Roddick hasn’t hit any 152 mph serves lately. But I wonder if he always got 70% serves in. Maybe the reduced mph is part of a strategy to maximize his effectiveness.

As far as being outaced by Fed, I think he’s been outaced by Fed in just about every match they’ve ever played.


jane Says:

Von says “you used it as leverage to make a comparison to detract from the heat on yourself.”

No, I used it as a comparison because I thought it was interesting that Skorocel thought the “blow job” comment was funny whereas my “bad chicken” joke was cheap. In any case, I’ve apologized to Skorocel for whatever “heat” I brought onto myself for the joke.

And Eric wasn’t lambasted by anyone as far as I can tell.

“you’re deviating from the crux of the subject matter”

No – I don’t feel that I am. Eric raised the issue of Murray being continuously pleasured/praised by the British media, so the subject matter was about “media bias” (American, British, Australian, or whatever – all of these raised by David) at least in part.

“You should not have been offended period by the remark ”

Umm – well, we all have different things we’re offended by, and while I wasn’t horribly offended by the remark, I nonetheless thought the “blow job” reference was a little vulgar, and it was my prerogative to mention it during my conversation with Skorocel.


Von Says:

David: Roddick has always served 70% or higher, except for the occasional off-day where he’s not as effective. I think he’s trying to preserve his arm to hang around longer on the tour and is thus using viable alternatives, e.g., his legs, BH et al.


Kimmi Says:

“Let’s face it, the guy (Novak)is unbelievably talented(far more than Andy Murray,,,”

Veno, i think this is debatable. Murray might not have the shot that stands out (I think BH is magnificent though)..but he has one of the best tennis brain out there, he knows how to utilize the whole court, great anticipation….the mixing of pace, great defense, great defense to offense. I know his 2nd serve needs improvement and the fact that he engages into defensive mode sometimes but this is what he needs to work on, it’s only a year now since his break-thru.

I remember Fed also commented on Murray being talented than Novak I believe at wimbledon this year? Which I very much agree.

For Murray to win a GS is just a matter of time.


Von Says:

jane: Answer me truthfully, had Skorocel not picked up on your ‘bad chicken’ joke, would the ‘blow job’ comment have bothered you? Be careful now ….


Veno Says:

Actually, he’ll collect a bonus even when he loses first round, however, it will be very low.
R128 for Sam means $15,000
R64 means $25,000
R32 means $40,000
R16 means $70,000
QF means $125,000
SF means $250,000
F means $500,000
W means $1,000,000

For Andy Murray it will be half the bonus and for JMDP it will be half of Murray’s bonus :)

Von Says: “If you remember in that Wimby final he was out-aced by Federer.”

Ehm, true, but in total A-Rod had more unreturned serves :)


Von Says:

jane: “No, I used it as a comparison because I thought it was interesting that Skorocel thought the “blow job” comment was funny whereas my “bad chicken” joke was cheap. In any case, I’ve apologized to Skorocel for whatever “heat” I brought onto myself for the joke.”

Case close, you’ve answered my question. Translation, your discussion with Skorocel was not in any way, form or fashion connected to the discussion on the American media. Apples and oranges.


jane Says:

Yeah, I tend to agree with you Kimmi; I think Novak and Murray each have their strengths and weaknesses with regards to talent. Murray has amazing touch/wrists and he does some to be mentally tougher nowadays. Djoko maybe generates a little more power on many of his shots though, except Murray first serve has become quite strong and his running shots are excellent.

David – Cilic does seem a little “slappy” which results in more sloppiness. He can hit a lot of errors in the course of a match. But sheesh he looked good versus Querrey and Haas at Wimbledon this year. I am always wondering what it is that holds guys like him, Querrey, Gulbis from breaking through into the top: inconsistency seems like the main culprit, but also, esp. in Gulbis’ case, desire.


Veno Says:

We agree to disagree then Kimmi.
You’re describing Murray in the sense of getting more out of the natural talent that is given him by working harder on fitness, on the tactical element and his confidence he can beat everyone on court. But let’s be honest, the more natural talented player imho is Novak. He is a much more naturally gifted athlete than Murray, just not as focussed and metally prepared as Andy Murray is to get the most out of his “gift” which is tennis.

The same could be said comparing Rafa and Fed. Fed is by far(and I mean lightyears) the most naturally gifted tennis player in the current field and the only way Rafa could get so close to Fed and even surpass him is pure mentality(also talent of course) discipline and will to be the best he can be.


Von Says:

Veno: Thanks for the breakdown of points/money for Sam’s USO points. Roddick won that thing about 2 times and then runner-up twice, which means he collected some mucho bucks in addition to his prize money.

I see Roddick veering away from aces per se and concentrating more on his serve placement. To me his first-serve was more or less like an ace because it’s unreturnable most of the time.


Veno Says:

And ladies….I luv ya both(J and V) but way too long lingering on the “blow job” comment.


jane Says:

Von, you can close the case at your end if you’d like since you were the one who put me on trial. Ha ha.


Von Says:

Veno: I said case closed. I dropped that topic several posts/hours ago with David, and don’t care to rehash it, period.


jane Says:

Veno is was a “continuous” blow job don’t you remember? But yeah, you’re right. End of topic.


scineram Says:

Roddick outaced Federer thrice and they tied twice, I think.


Veno Says:

Just busting your choppies Von(grant me my little pleasures :)

Andy has had the best US Open Series record, but Fed hit the Jackpot in ’07 winning the series and winning the USO for a combined prize money of 2,400,000 buckaroos!!!

Kim Clijsters in ’05 did even better, as I recall, she won bot for 2,500,000 smackerinos


jane Says:

Oh I just saw your question Von – well, when I read the comment Eric made, I did bristle and I thought about saying something re: vulgarity but decided not to bother. So no, I probably wouldn’t have mentioned it had Skorocel not “LOL’d” his and “cheaped” mine.


Von Says:

jane: @ 9:06 pm, you proved what I was saying, you used it as levarage to get yourself out of a ‘sticky wicket’ situation, but it backfired on you. FYI, I didn’t put you on trial, you put yourself there by rehashikng the same thing over again. As I said, case closed, period. I’m serious!


jane Says:

Veno, why do you think Novak is the more talented between him and Murray? I see them as equal but with different strenghts and weaknesses.

Actually the same with Nadal and Fed – Nadal may even be the more naturally gifted “athlete” in that comparison (after all he could’ve been a soccer star too) whereas Fed is the more naturally gifted at tennis/shot-making in particular.


jane Says:

Von “case closed, period. I’m serious!” Gotcha! Cased closed.


Kimmi Says:

Veno, Amen, we will agree to disagree as I still think Murray is talented than Novak.

BTW, the way Novak has been playing recently its hard to see “that” talent but Nadal match in cincy shows some promise, and I must also admit I am dying to see that old Novak.


Von Says:

Veno: I think Clijsters earned 2.1 million bucks. Roddick had won the USO series also, but got knocked out by Giles (the monster) Mueller. I wanted to smack Mueller for depriving Andy of his USO bucks, et al. Giles lost in the next round.


Veno Says:

Veno, why do you think Novak is the more talented between him and Murray? I see them as equal but with different strenghts and weaknesses.

Actually the same with Nadal and Fed – Nadal may even be the more naturally gifted “athlete” in that comparison (after all he could’ve been a soccer star too) whereas Fed is the more naturally gifted at tennis/shot-making in particular.

You make a compelling point on both comparisons, and I’m not disagreeing, however, I’m looking at it from a general stand point. That is the naturally gifted tennis player(not the natural physical ability or naturally having a stronger mentality) I would even put Novak tennis-talent wise slightly above Nadal, yet Nadal is physically stronger, mentally stronger, has matured faster and is a better all round athlete than Novak.

Look at it this way…. There are a lot of athletes in a variety of sports who are naturally very talented, however they won’t make it to the top because of the lack of mental strength or strong demeanor(it’s easier to be a little less talented, because your path is always the same and very clear, Nadal is the prime example…that is not to think and just squeeze every drop of juice out of the possibilities you have gotten at birth) With this I’m not stating Rafa, Murray and other top athletes aren’t hugely talented, because they are. Without any talent you won’t make the top anyhow. And of course every player has natural strengths and those differ across players and these can be attributed to natural talent too. However, how well you develop those natural strengths is mostly conscrued by will power, determination and discipline to work hard at improving them.
But if you would look at overall natural talent(so put in the equation not only the natural strengths, but also the weaker sides) I would place the top 4 as follows:
1) Fed
2) Novak
3) Rafa(very close behind Novak)
4) Murray

Also, looking at Marat, I would have to rank him between Novak and Fed, naturally talented-wise.


Veno Says:

Furthermore, as a side note concerning Murray:

Although a very good tennis player, the fact he uses his tennis brain so much, playing passively, hoping his tactical game will rattle his opponents and make them UE a lot of times is not a natural talent. It is something he has developed as a game plan or even a personal development project, after realizing he had to become physically stronger to be able to be a top contender. He knew that when physically stronger he could retrieve so much more shots to make the opponenent play those extra shots and getting them out of the comfort zone. I’m really impressed by that. But it has been a way for Murray to be able to beat the top players as compensation for the lack of that missing 3% natural talent.
Generally speaking(totally arbitrary of course) A naturally gifted tennis player would in most cases have an aggressive, pro-active game, where as slightly less naturally gifted players would most likely become defenders and counter punchers.


Veno Says:

Yeah, it was a little less, Clijsters won 2,200,000 dubloens in ’05


Kimmi Says:

Veno, Love your post @ 9.25 pm…I understand what you say about natural tennis talent but my question here is what do you see in Novak to put him above Rafa and Murray. I can only guess here..is it his BH because i know he can change directions on it very beutiful but Novak is lacking good technic IMO on his net play and his movement is not as fluid as lets say Fed and Murray

PS


jane Says:

For some reason Von, I thought Roddick had won the USO series in 2006 when he got to the finals but lost to Fed in four sets. I am pretty sure he won Cincy that year, and maybe was he in the finals of Indy? Can’t remember but I thought he did earn a little extra cash that year.


jane Says:

And did you see this Von? Like with Murray, the write at ESPN picked Roddick as one of the “Top Ten Reasons to watch the USO”:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=4418512&name=espntennis

I posted the link on Murray yesterday I think.


Veno Says:

Hey Kimmi, I agree that Novak’s net play in the past year has been below par, but go back to the end of ’07 and the beginning of ’08. He was dynamite(see what confidence can do)

Murray has good hands too, that’s why I’m surprised he doesn’t move to net more.

Again, stating my opinion(which is by nature arbitrary and subjective) drawing from 25 years of following tennis, 15 years of playing tennis and a great variety of other sports.

Murray’s first serve tops Novak’s, but Novak’s second is better. However Murray has improved his first serve, Novak’s has become a little weaker.
Murray has an incredible BH down the line and his running FH cross court is amazing(both these shots have become so much better because of his improved leg and arm strength. Novak imo is the better natural mover and unbelievably nimble.
Novak’s cross court BH is a joy when it’s on, especially the ones bouncing up high. I really love his upper body turn through the ball pushing it down. Also, imo Novak’s inside-out and inside-in fh’s are slightly better than Murray’s.
Physically of course I’ll take Andy.
If I were to take Andy Murray’s best showing in a best of 5 and put that against Novak’s, the pure tennis quality would tilt in Novak’s favour. But of course, at their level we’re talking amazingly small margins of course.
Again, both are very talented with a great variety of strong shots.


jane Says:

Veno – indeed a very interesting post @ 9:25. There are a myriad of factors that have to come into play to make one a success. That’s why saying someone is the “best tennis player ever to pick up a racquet” bothers me as I feel there are too many variants to make such an all-encompassing statement.

This is also an intriguing statement, if perhaps contentious to some: “A naturally gifted tennis player would in most cases have an aggressive, pro-active game, where as slightly less naturally gifted players would most likely become defenders and counter punchers.”

Kimmi asks a good question though, re: net play and movement. Although I think generally Novak is a good mover, his net play is below the touch/level of Murray, Fed, Marat, and Nadal.

Nature vs. nuture is, in a way, the root of this debate – and such a rabbit hole I do not want to fall down, so I tread carefully. : )


Von Says:

Jane: I know Roddick won the US0 quite a few times, and he did win $500,000 in ’06. And, yes, he won Cincy in ’06 too.

I saw that ESPN article in my email on Roddick and another one from another tennis email, but didn’t post them because of what happenend the last time I posted a link on Roddick. As a matter of fact, there was a Johnnie Mc article also picking Roddick at the USO. LOL. I laughed at it thinking poor Johnnie Mc he’s trying to save face after Wimby. LOL.


Veno Says:

Jane says: “Nature vs. nuture is, in a way, the root of this debate – and such a rabbit hole I do not want to fall down, so I tread carefully. : )”

Words of the wise Jane!!!

I agree in disliking the phrase: “best player to ever pick up a racket.” Heck, someone who decided not to play tennis after having picked up a racket could have been the best player if he had decided to persue a tennis career :)


Von Says:

Let us leave Veno alone for his health, it’s way past his bed-time and he won’t shut down if we keep asking him questions, he’ll be more energized LOL. Goodnight Veno.


Veno Says:

Ok, point taken. I know when I’m not wanted somewhere. I bid you all a good night.

a hundred hours to go


jane Says:

“I laughed at it thinking poor Johnnie Mc he’s trying to save face after Wimby. LOL.” Oh Johnny Mac has a lot of face-saving to do Von; it would take another life-time! Not only for that, but for the mics in faces & “who’s the GOAT?” fiasco as the players had only stepped off the court and the legends had to sputter out answers to the millions watching. One thing Mac has never had bucket loads of is tact!

And sure, I’ll gladly leave Veno to his beauty sleep.


Kimmi Says:

Veno, it was a good debate and interesting points from you…though I still need to ponder about few technicalities. Enjoy your beauty sleep.


jane Says:

I am not sure this is the article to which you referred Von, but in it J-Mac picks Roddick and Murray as the USO faves and P-Mac picks Federer but, speaking from personal knowledge of baby twin daughters, he says it might be a challenge for Fed. It’s an interesting article for anyone interested, so I’ll leave you with the link:

http://www.tennisweek.com/news/fullstory.sps?inewsid=6638050


Von Says:

Veno: You know I’d love for you to stay, but let’s face it, it’s now about 4:00 am your time, and I think you’re way past your bed-time (according to maman), so please go to sleep and have sweet dreams. When you awaken it’ll probably be about 94 hours to go, so sleeping helps to pass the time away, me thinks. Anyway, only 10 more hours to the USO draw.
_______________
jane: No, it was an SI article, but pretty much the same thoughts.


Von Says:

I bid you all adieu, bon soir, good night.


i love fed Says:

“Still, though, I wouldn’t be that sure about his „almost guaranteed“ triumph at the forthcoming USO – especially if he meets someone like Murray..”
————
Skorocel:
He’s already met Murray. Just last week for example. Federer already beat Murray at the USO last year.


jane Says:

tenisbebe, Von’s note to me above made me go have a look at S.I., and in Wertheim’s mail bag I found this – which pretty much backs up what you said:

“Regarding the Cincinnati Masters, why was the men’s second semifinal match played so late at night? It seems like that gives a distinct disadvantage to the night-time winner.
– Kris, Norwalk, Conn.

Agree. And you could make the same point regarding the first “Super Saturday” being at a distinct advantage for the Sunday final at the Open. But TV calls the shots.”


africanck Says:

I think Jonny mac will really have to eat humble pie again, since last year he said Federer was finished and he then won the USO. Then they were saying Fed can’t win the French and he won it. Now Jonny Mac is saying either Andy Roddick or Andy Murray is going to win.
When and ‘if’ Fed wins again Mac is really going to look like an idiot.

Predictions anyone.
I say it will be Murray and Fed in the final.
Fed takes it in 4 sets.
Fed knocks our Nadal in semi–and Murray knocks out Roddick in the other semi.
No Djoker he usually chokes in the USO

Your thoughts? your predictions?


africanck Says:

by the way Jane
if everyone was in such good shape as Fed they won’t worry about the time the game is played. Even if it is a late game, they need to give into the TV scheduling since that’s were so much money is generated from. When Fed lost to Nadal in Wimby he couldn’t even see anymore in the last game or two. He didn’t cry about it. Plus if people are in great shape they need to play and that is a test not only of their mental ability but their stamina. Which Fed really rules and Nadal also. Novak and Murray are not at there level yet. It is a great test of greatness even to win when you are at a slight disadvantage in scheduling.


Skorocel Says:

Kimmi said: “Veno, i think this is debatable. Murray might not have the shot that stands out (I think BH is magnificent though)..but he has one of the best tennis brain out there, he knows how to utilize the whole court, great anticipation….the mixing of pace, great defense, great defense to offense.”

Agree. Besides, which of Djoker’s shots can be named as a “standout shot”? I can’t think of any.


Skorocel Says:

africanck: “When Fed lost to Nadal in Wimby he couldn’t even see anymore in the last game or two. He didn’t cry about it.”

Of course he didn’t. Why he had to? The conditions were the same for both of them ;-)


africanck Says:

What I mean is most guys would whine and complain, it seemed that Nadal was winning so Fed could have said hey I can’t see lets stop the match, be he didn’t a true sportman


Von Says:

For Voicemale1 and Nadal fans: Expert optimistic on Nada’s fitness for the USO

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/26082009/58/open-expert-optimistic-nadal-fitness.html


i love fed Says:

J Mac is nuts. LOL Andy bloody Murray.


Cancune Says:

When is someone going to write about that incredible doubles master, Daniel Nestor?


sar Says:

I love him. I hope he and Z win the career slam together in the next two years. I hope they can win the USO. The Bryans have already done the career slam.

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