Nadal Hand-Signals Way to 1st ATP Sportsmanship Award
by Jeremy Davis | November 20th, 2010
  • 177 Comments

As the ATP championships beginning tomorrow, watch Rafael Nadal. But more importantly watch the hands of his coach and uncle, Toni, sitting in the stands.


You wouldn’t think that the world No. 1 Spaniard would need coaching, but Toni sits in the stands during matches giving his ward illegal hand signals. Coaching from the stands is illegal on the ATP tour. But Toni does it, and Nadal looks for it every match. Nadal this year has openly admitted he receives coaching hand signals during matches. The ATP looks the other way. For the most part.

Today Nadal was awarded the Stefan Edberg Sportsmanship award for 2010 — voted on by his fellow players! Players have to remember it’s not the “Nice Guy Award,” ’cause Nadal regularly shows he is one of the most respectful and nicest guys out there. It’s the Sportsmanship award, which last time I looked is in regard to being a good sport and following the rules.

The players voted Nadal the Sportsman, but fans voted Roger Federer the 2010 Fans’ Favorite Singles Player, over Nadal who won three slam titles this year. Maybe the fans have spoken. Nadal being voted the Sportsman is significant not only because he “cheats,” but his award also breaks Federer’s six Sportsman awards in a row.
 
At Wimbledon this year the 2010 Sportsman Nadal was warned by the chair umpire not to receive coaching from or talk to his uncle in the crowd. Yet later in the same match Nadal was slapped with a code violation for talking to his uncle, who was in the player’s box.

No one is making a big deal of this. Am I wrong? I’m no hater either, I like Nadal as a person and love watching him play. Is this just something that is a small thing and should be brushed off? Tell me I’m wrong.


Also Check Out:
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Serena Collects Three WTA Awards; Clijsters, Oudin Also Winners
Right Or Wrong? Kvitova Bumps No. 1 Wozniacki For WTA Player Of Year Award
Rafael Nadal Receives Sportsmanship, No. 1 ATP Awards on Court [Video]
Bolt Beats Federer for Lareus Award; Serena, Clijsters Also Win

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177 Comments for Nadal Hand-Signals Way to 1st ATP Sportsmanship Award

Dave Says:

I agree. I like Nadal a lot, but to give someone who violates a rule flagrantly, even if it’s a “small thing” an award for sportsmanship is a mistake. Surely, there are more deserving players for that specific award.


Benjamin Roberts Says:

what next? paris hilton replacing obama in the white house?

i am guessing uncle toni might have begged all spannish/argentinean and hispanic/latin players to vote for rafaline


montecarlo Says:

I wonder who allowed you to make this post? Tennis-x is down to soooo mediocre levels now?

I hope its deleted as soon as possible. Its more like that post about three years ago by another idiot here who said that Nadal will never be world no. 1 and he is finished. That turned out to be the last topic started by that guy here.

Nadal has been a true gentleman and should have won this award atleast 3 times by now and every year people were surprised why Federer kept on winning this.

Anyway R.I.P Jeremy Davis.

BTW if this topic isn’t deleted by tomorrow I ain’t coming back to this site and I am sure many of the posters here will do the same.


Cynthia Lo Says:

It’s not Nadal’s fault to begin with and I’m no big fan of Nadal. WHO is responsible for this fiasco then?


Val;brig Says:

What a load of rubbish,and what a nasty untruthful thing to print just before they kick off tomorrow.Toni did shout at Rafa once but for the hand signals rubbish.


choices Says:

Not a Nadal hater??? Oh come on – who are you trying to kid. Reminds me of the “some of my best friends are….” line. Perfect timing for a biased article. Bloggers just love their own self-importance don’t you???


montecarlo Says:

http://www.tennis-x.com/xblog/2008-03-29/409.php

That’s the article I was talking about. Poor Guerry Smith was such an idiot just like this Jeremy Davis guy.


Cristina Says:

I agree very much with Montecarlo.
Why people are so jealous of Rafa?
He truly deserved the award, the only thing that Uncle Tony says is “Vamos Rafa”. Have you ever seen Henin been coached during a match?
That is a violation!


JB Says:

Well if you lot believe that, then you’re even more stupid than you sound. Anyone who knows anything about the way Rafa works will know that this is a huge insult to Rafa.


VE Says:

You’re wrong.

I’ve attended the US Open for the last eight years and get to other tournaments whenever I have the opportunity. This goes on all the time.

I once sat next to a certain ATP player’s camp at the US Open, he wasn’t a leading light, but he was in the Top 10 at the time. More importantly, he carried on a full dialogue with his coaches and team during the match. At the time I was surprised, I kept waiting for the umpire to sanction him or at least stop the conversation, nothing.

This is the exact reason the WTA Tour allows on-court coaching. They controversially took the opinion that since it’s happening all the time anyway, we may as well mic them up for the audience.

Remember Oracene Price yelling to Serena, “Get Outta Melbourne,” in reference to her court positioning at the Aussie a few years ago? Ever see Brad Gilbert discuss the ’99 French Open final where he gestured to within an inch of his life to signal to Agassi to leave the court when it started to rain?

Why the sudden outrage? I’d say it’s the Fedal wars. Some Federer fans seem to be looking for any way to discredit Nadal, in a bid to maintain glory for their man. The recent comments I’ve seen would lead one to believe Nadal is the only player to have received coaching, a number of top pros have received similar coaching on the court.

In practical terms, yes, coaching is against the rules, but frankly, it’s been decriminalized. Why? Because hand signals don’t win matches, good play does.


erica Says:

I wholeheartedly agree. Most players on the tour do use good sportsmanship. But Nadal consistently wastes time to throw off his opponents rhythmn, calls convenient medical timeouts for mere niggles that are not truly injuries, and constantly looks to and speaks with his coach. I like the man, but do not respect his tennis etiquette (or lack thereof) To laude this is an embarrassment to the ATP.


Jeb Horton Says:

You’re right. It is an issue. Nadal is too good to resort to coaching. He doesn’t need it and it’s cheating. We should make a bigger deal of this. One of the great things about tennis is that there isn’t coaching (aside from the fiasco on the women’s side), players enter the court and they’re on their own. Toni and Rafa should respect the rules.


contador Says:

his peers voted for nadal. so maybe they all are leaning toward “legal” coaching like the wta allows?

and federer made two mistakes of conduct that we know about in 2009. miami – broken racquet and us open a “s” word and/or the “f” word? i don’t remember what it was. i liked federer breaking a racquet in miami. he was really playing some cr@p tennis that day. bad racquets…

again, peers are voting, not us.

ah, c’mon – be fair…we have fed haters all over this forum now.
considering resident and favored provocateur “fedend,” Benjamin Roberts posts are perfectly fine.

it’s the fedal wars – what else do bored tennis fans do about now.


contador Says:

oh, excuse me, really MC. i thought you were referring to a poster…you mean the writer. yeah. makes for a looooong thread.


Vulcan Says:

BTW if this topic isn’t deleted by tomorrow I ain’t coming back to this site and I am sure many of the posters here will do the same.

I can completely understand your sentiment. I personally am going to have to do some research and make a determination as to whether there is an agenda on this sight of being unfair to Nadal in terms of trying to generate controversy and encourage attacks on his integrity. I do get the impression that there is a bias towards Federer but to what degree that is I have not yet determined. In particular I will have to check and see if Federer’s integrity has been questioned to the same degree as Nadal’s. As a starting point I will want to check and see what articles were written about Federer back when he made his excuses back at Wimbledon 2008…if there were no similar attempts at character assassination directed at Federer as are being made against Nadal above I think one can safely deduce that this site is hostile territory for Nadal fans. I have no problem with the site being a Federer fan site but I do have a problem with it masquerading as being a fair, objective, news source when there is clearly an ulterior agenda. I for one have enjoyed reading your comments regarding Rafa and will be disappointed to see you leave if that is your decision.


Trevor Says:

Obviously, it affects you guys more than it does his fellow peers otherwise they wouldn’t have voted for him. Get that, the ATP PLAYERS THEMSELVES voted for Rafa, so that suggests to me that you guys are the ones making more out of it than it really is, otherwise, why would they vote for him. If his on-court coaching, extended time between points,”convenient medical timeouts” (lol), or other garbage Fedfans like to point out, did indeed bother the other players why would they vote for him? You guys need to chill already.


montecarlo Says:

@Contador: Yeah I was referring to original writer and not some other poster. If somebody is writing an article on front page of a reputed site like tennis-x then the guy needs to be objective.

The question here is not about Nadal or Federer but the article here is in such a bad taste throwing accusations without even a single genuine evidence.

If You are posting bull crap based on coaching admittance allegations which arose from a translated article from some little known media without even exact mention of the reference in which it was said then only God can save you.


mytennis Says:

We were wondering for years,how come Federer with his unbearable arrogance won the award for 6 years.Any way this year deserved player got the award.It was long overdue.Nadal,with his humbleness and grace should have got the award long back.And Jeremy Davis is a big FEDTARD,that reflects in his biased,distorted article.


contador Says:

listen, i am a fed fan but i was trying to point that out: the peers voted for rafa, not us!!

the peers voted for federer in 2009, despite his mistakes that were blown out of proportion and made into blog fodder elsewhere.

but this got my attention. and i had no interest in posting today until i saw it.

very unfair, really.


Vulcan Says:

The ultimate authority on Nadal’s sportsmanship comes from the people that know him best on court and are effected most by what he does on the court – the players – and they have spoken – whatever anybody else says is secondary, tertiary, or as is the case with this article from the vantage point of detractors who seek to discredit Nadal’s character.


Trevor Says:

@VE:

I couldn’t agree with you more.


contador Says:

yeah…like i said. pardon me, montecarlo. i got your point.


sheila Says:

i think nadal deserves this award. he seems humble, respectful & nice towards all his fellow players, but pleez don’t bring this back to a comparison w/federer. “its the fedal wars”. whatever. everytime something is said about nadal in a negative way, federers name gets put into the conversation. they r both gr8 players & both nice.


Joe Says:

the comments r funnier than the article. ‘This is an outrage! Im an important person! If this article isnt deleted Im never coming back to this site. Ive just wet my pants in anger!’

If the players voted him the best sportsmen then he is.


Skeezerweezer Says:

This is not the kind of writing Tennis X should be producing . The article sounds like a post, not an article. I go on record backing the Rafa fans here, as I would be imploding right now if Fed was written about with this style.

As far as the rest of the fodder talk, name calling, CW and Benjamin posts, thank FedWins and rick this past couple of weeks for starting this mess.

At least we could talk tennis before that, and it doesn’t surprise me it will get worse before it gets better. I


Janel Says:

I agree with the article 100% He doesn’t deserve it, he admitted to asking his uncle where to serve during the USO final which as most know is not allowed. This isn’t the first time either he did it countless times during the 06 MC final and on many other occassions. Of course he’s fans are going to see this article as picking at him but cmon now wake up and see what goes on Nadal breaks every rule known to tennis yet gets away with it more or less, add in the MTO he takes for no reason other then to stuff the opponent yeah what a true sportsman Not! For those who think his uncle is saying “Vamos rafa” who are u kidding? lol

For him to recieve this award is wrong pure and simple. An


Duro Says:

What a bad timing for such an article and a completely unnecessary one…


Kimberly Says:

Montecarlo–I must say I am kind of shocked to see this article. None of the writers I have seen before have put up such a blatantly biased post.

First of all, the question of Rafa’s “admitting” to coaching at the US Open is exactly that. A question. It was reported by some spanish newspaper that he said that. No one has a tape or video of such and nadal has not responded that I know of confirmed this. And even though he was fined he denied the coaching claim at Wimby. Am I missing something.

I was so happy to hear Rafa won this award and yes, I expected a few disillusioned extremist fed fan posters to say a few things. But to actually have an article written on the site was quite a shock.

Contador–Benjamen Roberts sounds very much to me like Christopher Walsh reincarnated. If not in actuality certainly in spirit.


Twocents Says:

“Is this just something that is a small thing and should be brushed off? Tell me I’m wrong.”

It IS a small thing compared to the urgent need of hyping-up-Nadal before Fed’s all gone. Fed got 5 SE Awards. ATP better hurry up. LOL! Agree with some poster up here: it’s a fedal war.

But I do feel sad for Djok and Roddick who played thru illness and injuries and gave their opponents full victories, in this year’s AO.


Thangs Says:

I never seen such an ill minded person writing an article like this…Fans giving such biased comments is totally different thing..but, allowing someone to post such an article is totally wrong…

No matter what..Nadal always grows up strong and come back with a bang!


Mindy Says:

Vulcan,

You mean to say that you actually have doubts as to the bias inherent in this site? If you have been here for any length of time, then it would be obvious to you that there is an innate bias on the part of the bloggers that write for this site and the people who post here. I thought this was behind us, but I can see that I was wrong!

This is beyond outrageous! To post somebody’s personal opinion about Rafa, means that this site has lost any objectivity and any pretense of fairness. No wonder Rafa fans get chewed to bits here.

The idea that Rafa needs Uncle Toni, or anyone else for that matter, telling him what to do on a tennis court, is ludicrous beyond measure. It wasn’t Uncle Toni playing on court winning three straight slams this year!

How interesting that it comes out just as the WTF is starting. It’s similar to the accusation of using illegal drugs that was leveled at Rafa on the eve of the USO by one of the people who write for this site. Coincidence? Hardly!


jane Says:

It seems unsportsmanlike to post an article of this nature – perhaps especially now, directly after Nadal has had one of the most dominate year’s in the sport of tennis and after his peers have voted him to be the most sportsmanlike player.


jane Says:

oops – dominant not dominate, and no apostrophe on years.


montecarlo Says:

@Skeezerweezer
Thanks, really appreciate that post of yours.

@Kimberly

Only mention of that so called coaching admittance was in this question (which in itself isn’t certain was ever asked or not)-

P. ¿Cómo le afectó?

R. No sabía adónde sacar. Al ace, al medio o intentar hacer la jugada clásica del saque abierto e intentar jugar de derecha. Me dijeron que sacara abierto y ahí saqué. Antes, en los dos siguientes servicios, sufrí mucho más de lo que lo había venido haciendo, pero mucho más. Él tuvo break point en el 4-1 y en el 5-2, si uno se fija, si ve la repetición, se ve que los dos primeros servicios no los consigo coordinar para nada. Los mando dos metros fuera de largos. ¡Y estaba sacando bien! Aparte, los toco mal. Tocar la pelota bien, es lo mínimo. Puedes fallar, pero no tocar la pelota mal.

I don’t understand Spanish but all those guys whom I asked translate this to “They told me to” or “I was told to” meaning the pre match strategy to go for a particular serve and not some special strategy which was secretly saved by Unlce Tony only for the last few points of the match.


Vulcan Says:

Skeezerweezer,

Classy move on your part…as a true tennis and Roger Federer fan you are showing your true colors.

The fact is there was a single reliable reference that apparently showed that Nadal did indeed violate the rules during the USO final. I have no problem with an article being written about this violation. If this site chooses to focus on the more controversial aspects of the sport than so be it…however, the question of whether that focus is objective and equally distributed among all of the players is another story. Yes, the timing of this article is in very poor taste. The time to write it was back when the allegations originally surfaced…not now when it is basically a half-arsed attempt to rain on Nadal’s parade.


Jean Says:

The most stupid article I have ever read!


TD (Tam) Says:

Shit article. Go back to writing for your school newspaper.


steve-o Says:

Congratulations to Nadal. This article is in poor taste.

There is a discussion to be had on this topic, but now is not really the appropriate time to have it.


Skeezerweezer Says:

Vulcan & Montecarlo,

Thanks :).

Madmax,

Thanks :)

Been traveling so i did not get a chance to congratulate Rafa and Fed, Bryan bros. And the newbies. Kinda wish Novak got something, he has matured positively in every way this year.. Sod is finishing a productive year also.


dari Says:

I posted similar thoughts to a milder degree on the other atp awards thread AS A POST and i thought i was walking a fine line. to see this as an actual article brings down the class level.
and as I, and many others have pointed out, the PLAYERS don’t seem to mind the little things rafa is doing on court (coaching, time delay), so we as viewers who will never see nadal across the net in a match have to let it go.
ON WITH THE TENNIS! T- 20 hours!


Fot Says:

Maybe it would help lf we (the fans) knew what the criteria that the players used when voting on this award? We may ‘think’ we know, but it might be something else? Anyway, if the players voted him for this award – then he deserves it. Roger deserved it when he was voted it 6 times in a row. No one is putting a gun up to the player’s heads to vote. This is truly who they wanted to vote on – so be it! Let’s just congratulate the winners and move on.


Rsutherland Says:

Jeremy – Bitter people are funny. Thanks for the laugh


steve-o Says:

@Vulcan: I think that is a rather warped notion of fairness to have–that just because one player is under suspicion, writers must devote just as much time to suspicion of other players.

It’s as if to say: “Why can’t two and two make five? Nobody complained when they said two and two make four. Why are you being so unfair?”

If suspicion rarely follows Federer, perhaps it’s because he simply doesn’t engage in the kind of behavior which might induce suspicion. He doesn’t spend a lot of time during his service games and he doesn’t look at his box during matches. Ergo, no reason to suspect him of on-court coaching.

And if this is the case, any attempt to manufacture suspicion isn’t “fairness” at all.

If someone acts in a manner that can appear shady, then he should be prepared for scrutiny. Of course he may not be guilty of anything, but you have to expect people to speculate.

Those in high positions have often understood the importance of avoiding even the appearance of impropriety. “The wife of Caesar must be above suspicion.” Federer has conducted himself in accordance with this principle.

Nadal has admitted that his uncle “talks too much.” If he wants to avoid suspicions of on-court coaching, he can tell his uncle to tone it down and travel without him more often. Surely he is capable of this.

If he doesn’t take precautions to avoid even the appearance of breaking the rules, then he can expect the suspicion to continue as long the behavior continues.

But the attitude I am hearing here is very close to “If Nadal is dirty everyone else must be equally dirty.” That’s quite unfair. It is possible that Nadal is dirty and others are clean. It is possible that everyone is clean. (I am not saying anything here on the subject of whether Nadal is dirty or not).


JCK Says:

Congratulation to Rafa for winning the sportsmanship award. He deserves it. He always gives his opponents full credit, before or after a match, win or lose. He never belittles his opponents or gives backhanded compilment. He seldom took offense for things other players said about him. He appears to be well liked by other players.

As for the writer of this article, you conveniently forgot all the gamemanships others are playing on court. Do you have any proof of this hand signals thing? The camera focused on Uncle Toni a lot. Has it ever been caught on tape? If it’s so prevalent as you claimed, it should have been caught on tape by now, given the number of matches Nadal plays every year. You are making accusations without proof. Your objectivity and credibility is seriously questionable.

And for this site, yes, your credibiltiy is questionable too if you publish this kind of biased and inflamatory “article”. I agree with others. Don’t masquerade as a news blog if you are this biased.


JCK Says:

I’ll bet the farm that Birdych didn’t vote for Fed this year. :-) I have never seen any hand signals but I sure heard a lot of less than sportsman-like comments, on TV/tape, from Fed before. That hasn’t prevented him from winning. But of course, a Fed fan would overlook all that and focus on the supposed misdeeds by Nadal instead.


BP Says:

Obviously, one can tell that this author might like Nadal as he pointed out, but dislikes Nadal’s accomplishements. Or put simply, this author only likes the success of Federer. Why would you argue that Federer alone is deserving of this trophy? Don’t you believe other players (excluding Nadal, in this case) have handled themselves respectfully as well? Do not be so biased and contrived that your own words lead readers away from your column. Honestly, this piece of writing is a deliberate ploy to undermine Nadal’s achievements and elevate Federer’s.

I do not say you cannot arge against Nadal’s receiving the trophy, but do so in an impartial and less attacking manner.

BP.


Sean Randall Says:

On this matter, I will say Nadal may not be the most sporting ON COURT. There is the coaching accusation/fine and his delay tactics, but as someone commented, the players voted for this one so it’s hard to argue THEY got it wrong.

Remember Federer was smashing racquets, tossing water bottles last year yet he still won the 2009 award.

So I think the players are also taking into account off court endeavors and with personal attitudes/relationships.


steve-o Says:

It appears that there are other “idiots” on this site who have made ridiculous predictions, and not just against a certain Spaniard, as has been claimed:

http://www.tennis-x.com/xblog/2008-06-15/501.php


Sean Randall Says:

While you are digging steve-o, how about one of mine:
http://www.tennis-x.com/xblog/2006-06-18/62.php

Headline: Why Rafael Can Win Wimbledon before Roger Wins the French

Came true!


mem Says:

Jeremy Davis,

this is a special visit just for you! you are welcome to delete these comments at any time.

it’s a pity that you call yourself a sportwriter with all your pent up prejudices and anxieties. you have been reduced to the lowest of low. are you so hurt that you have to stoop to this level of promoting animosity. your job is not to incite fans to hatred; your job is to report facts whether you like them or not. if you can’t write an article without revealing the dark side of your personal feelings then you probably need to write for an elementary school paper.

first of all, if you want to start a discussing about who deserves what; let’s discuss how roger federer wins an award for six years, and yet he disrespects umpires when he wants to, smashes racquets at will; uses profanity, and whatever else he chooses to do; everybody sits back and look the other way. roger curses the chair umpires out doing his match vs. del potro 2009 usopen and still receives the sportman award; he was fined $1500, but that’s ok, nadal is the only one violates that the rules. truth is, nadal should have won this award long before now.

you’re perfect example of the “blind leading the blind.”

you have got to be the most gullible writer on earth to think out of all these players on the atp tour, the only player that ever demonstrates the essence of this award is roger federer. it’s people like you who have misled fans into believing that roger owns the atp and no other player is worthy; every other player is beneath him; a lot of posters believe this illegitimate crap you write to provoke anger and contempt for nadal. this is what tennis has come to all because people like you want roger to have it all and have the easy way out. you haven’t clue what competition is about!

if any player deserves to be honored, it’s rafa nadal. this award has nothing to do with fist pumping, shouting vamos, toweling off, or playing at a different pace than the opponent. whether nadal stays within the time or outside of time he’s still criticized. that’s the kind of false crap writers like you have fed to these fans and they believe it. roger has received this award six times and he sure didn’t receive because he was perfect in every category. if roger doesn’t have a coach to look at then that’s his choice. if you going to penalize a player every time he looks at his coach, then penalize everybody who looks at their coach. no player is perfect,not even your roger federer. this award is about professionalism, fair play, challenging at the highest level. what player is more fair toward an opponent than nadal. he would rather give the opponent a point, rather than argue. he goes about his task focused and professional.

this is what is dragging tennis down. it’s not the same anymore; when agassi and sampras played each other rarely did you hear anything like the kind of stuff you people say regarding rafa/roger rivalry. this has been brewing every since nadal came along unafraid to challenge roger; every since you people have put forth every efforts to taint his reputation! everytime he looks at his uncle an article is written about him cheating; you writers think you are so clever with a keyboard; you think if you write about nadal being a cheater enough times, roger will look like a saint. well, i have news for you, there are some people who know what you are up to! what i can’t figure out how is federer suppose to be called the greatest ever and yet you, and others like you blame nadal for not putting his career on hold so that roger can have an easy ride into legendary history. nadal didn’t ask for this award; he plays just fine without awards. we all know how roger gets whatever wants without merit; you can fool some people but you can’t fool them all. i’ll never forget that roger received the 2008 espy award for “best male tennis player” when it was nadal who had the best 2008 season. did you write an article about how roger recieved an award he didn’t deserve? did you tell these posters about that? i suppose you missed that little fact! you got the audacity to write an article on nadal receiving an award he doesn’t deserve; give me a break!

your problem is you don’t like nadal because he an example of character and integrity; he doesn’t go around requesting that surfaces to be changed to make it easier for him to win. he faces challenges and makes the best out of situations. yes, nadal deserves it and you don’t have to like it!

you can write whatever you like, all it does is reveals the prejudice and unprofessional person you really are!


Kimberly Says:

Mindy Said: “How interesting that it comes out just as the WTF is starting. It’s similar to the accusation of using illegal drugs that was leveled at Rafa on the eve of the USO by one of the people who write for this site.

++++++++
I actually think this is much worse. Ben didn’t write an article and post it on the front page of this website. He was acting as a poster, in quite bad taste as to the timing (while I disagree, he has the right to his opinions on wheter players use PEDS and he doesnt only suspect Rafa), but he was not acting as a writer. In no why did it appear the site, tennis-x endorsed his opinion. Unless one would say by virtue of him being a writer that automatic assumption of endorsement would apply. But I don’t think so.

I am really surpised at this article. I understand there have been FEDAL wars with posters and I acknowledge I have not been innocent. But for the site to post such an article the day before the beginning of the final is beyond poor taste. SHouldn’t writers for the site be held to a higher standard? Yes or No?

Of course every tennis writer has their favorite. They could not be human if they did not. As someone said earlier, even in the most irrelevant match you will find yourself pulling for one player over the other. But what place should clear bias against a player have an a writer’s article? I guess it depends on the standard of the site and that is what Montecarlo is calling into question.

The Fedend, Rick, Benjamen drama is typical of many blogsites and can range from imflammotary to slighlty amusing depending on one’s mood. CHristopher Walsh used offensive obscenity and I believe is comments were of the sort that a well moderated site should delete, as was done.

I think we should note, that many of the Fed fans agree this article is in poor taste and seem quite surprised as well.

Vulcan, I have been watching this site for about 7 months (montecarlo) and posting only since Wimbledon and really toronto and I think this is the most biased article I have seen to date. But I guess what I am asking, very ineloquently, is what is/should be the standard for the writers?

On a bright note, I think we’ve got eight great players to start watching tomorrow!


nadian Says:

Not to nitpick, but Rafa was not “coached” by “hand signals” as you call them. I was at the Wimbledon match, and the umpire gave him a warning for verbal coaching, not hand signals. And he denied receiving coaching in that match. Where exactly did Jeremy Davis hear that he received hand signals from his uncle during the US open? Or he just jumped to that conclusion? And was it not noteworthy that he admitted that on one point he was blank as to where to serve? The famous interview where he admitted it in, the questioner did not ask him outright: were you coached; he admitted it voluntarily. If that is not sportsmanship …

And to the sportsmanship award: obviously Jeremy Davis (unless I am mistaken) is not a professional tennis player. Yet by virtue of being a spectator he decides he knows more about what being a sportsman than what the professional tennis players who play with each other day in day out think of what sportsmanship is in their sport. Or perhaps they are all misguided, and if only they’d got Jeremy’s definition on time…

As to the fans vote: come on – the difference was 47% to 42% or something like that: close enough to show that there are pretty good numbers of fans for both Federer and Nadal out there.

I also wonder what makes it significant to Jeremy in the post specifically, that this broke Fed’s trend of 6 straight awards? Won’t anyone else winning it have done that? I guess with all his knowledge and experience and voting power in the ATP tour he would have voted for Fed and not anyone else to ensure that the streak was not broken?

And then he ends it by saying he really likes Nadal? C’mon?


Ben Pronin Says:

You know what I don’t get, how come the number 1 player usually gets this award? I mean it’s voted for by the players, is the number 1 guy always the nicest or more sportsmanlike? Because of that I find it weird that Nadal didn’t win in 08. It’s like the players didn’t get the memo that he was number 1.

No disrespect to Federer or Nadal. This was voted for by the players so it really makes no difference what anyone else thinks, just that simple. But because of that I kind of wonder why the players are so inclined to give this award to the number 1 guy.

Anyways, congrats to Rafa. I’ve always felt that this was just another one of those things that Nadal would have a lot more of if not for a certain Swiss guy.


SenorFu Says:

This is a joke. A cruel joke.


dimwitted recluse Says:

It is interesting to see the response to Jeremy Davis’ article. I have divided the 51 posts so far into: 1) pro Davis, 2)anti-Davis Nadal fans 3)anti-Davis non-Nadal fans 3)neutral -in the sense of not addressing the article.

Whereas most of the Nadal fans are well known on this site, with a few (not knowing) I’ve inferred they are Nadal fans by their tone; at any rate, they are certainly anti Davis.

1)5
2)26
3)9
4)11.

If we discard 4) as irrelevant, that’s 87.5% pro Nadal.

Own goal by Mr.Davis? Or democracy in action?


contador Says:

i was wondering the same thing. why is it the #1.

one thought comes to mind…

the #1 deserves it, really. it’s a lot of pressure having a target on your back, having to represent the best in your sport…i mean, unless the guy behaves like tiger woods or something…the guys are going to give it to him. coaching or no, he won 3 slams plus basically the entire clay season. he’s made an impression on his peers. roger and rafa have shown that they don’t mind carrying some weight, that’s for sure.

congrats to rafa. ski hat off to him.


Leon Says:

A tea-cup tempest, really.

Nadal’s time, for sure. Three slams, #1 back, all that. Despite so much whining about so biased site, I don’t see any real attempts to belittle his great achievements, so long-awaited for his admirers. They believed, and their dreams came true. So, kudos to Nadal and congrats to his fans – once more.

No need to go nuts seeing an article like the given one. First, not longer than a year ago, just a similar one was written by cherylmurray on TT (which somebody constantly draws here as an example of non-biased forum) wrt Federer and I remembered no demands of autodafe for the author. Again, see steve-o’s reminder @6.07pm. Other example abound And I for one try to keep the words like “idiot” out of my writings, to be on the safe side, so to say. At least this guy Jeremy puts some arguments. The longer Nadal stays on the top, the tougher are fault-findings. Federer had (and permanently has) plenty of them, often far less grounded. Both are happy enough, nevertheless, God bless.

What really looks interesting and maybe a bit astonishing is that shift in players’ opinions. What was a true reason of that? Their community is hardly changed last years, the voters are practically the same. So are the heroes. Mysterious, if earlier Nadal even was not included in the list of nominees (I could be wrong, but as far as I remember), now he wins such a recognition from his peers. Has he improved his on-court demeanor not to irritate some of them any longer? Not so often delays between points, for example? Maybe. Alternatively, in what department has Federer made worse his exemplary attitude to his peers and to the game itself?

(For obvious reasons, I omit the question why should this award belong to these two only – not to, say, Ljubicic?)

Any truly unbiased and balanced remarks to this will be greatly appreciated.


Mindy Says:

Kimberly,

Your point is well taken in addressing the difference between what Ben did and this abomination. Yes, this is much worse. It implies that this site somehow endorses and agrees with the writer’s point of view. He is saying that Rafa is a cheat, pure and simple. However, somebody made the decision to place this piece front and center on this site.

That person has the responsibility for trashing the #1 player in the world at the start of the WTF. This site has always been biased in favor of Fed, but within reason. This goes outside the boundaries of reason.

Until I hear otherwise, I am going to assume that this is the opinion of the bloggers who write for this site and that this site specifically and wholeheartedly endorses the opinion expressed in this piece.

It’s not an issue of freedom for writers. It’s what this site chooses to put front and center on its blog.


Skeezerweezer Says:

Perhaps Tennis X would do some good for all, including themselves by at least post a “mission statement” for there “tennis” news site as other sites I have seen do……it may help clear things up for some knowing “oh, this is where they come from, or this is what they are about, or this is what they stand for, etc”.

From the Home page, “About”

“…we continue to make Tennis-X.com the best informational tennis website on the internet.”

But maybe they feel they don’t have to. Hey, bottom line is its their site, not ours. The ownership lies with them, we decide whether to partake in it or not.


dari Says:

The ATP really knows how to get a bunch of media together before this huge event.

To lighten the mood, i would suggest any of the videos and interviews up, ESPECIALLY the bryan brothers video logs. You get some candid and funny moments of singles and doubles players, even marko djokovic. If you see how much fun these guys are having just before a pressure-filled event (i’m pretty sure roger tells a dirty joke at the photo shoot), you would think we would all be able to relax a little bit here!

http://www.atpworldtour.com/Tennis/Media/Videos/2010/11-Finals/Bryans-Vblog1.aspx


guy Says:

the bias is so transparent it’s pathetic.

the ‘evidence’ he conspires to cheat with toni wouldn’t hold up in court.
there are in game interactions between players and coaches all over the tour. if you want to badly enough i’m sure you can conjure ‘cheating’ examples for half the tour.

what proves it, the umpire saying something?
i’ve seen umpires warn jankovic for cheating when her mother was cheering her in serbian.
i’ve seen the umpires FINE davydenko for ‘not trying’ because he had the nerve to get beaten by cilic.

and of course i’ve seen umpires sit back and let hewitt and roddick aggressively intimidate linespeople without uttering even a warning.

point is umpires can be just as idiotic as federer worshippers who write articles desperately trying to discredit nadal.


Kevin Kane Says:

I’m surprised by the vitriol that Jeremy’s post produced.

If you ask any tennis fan which player is most known for receiving on-court coaching, Nadal immediately comes to mind. I’m not saying that Nadal receives more mid-game coaching than anyone else, but we think of him because he’s the most successful player that clearly receives coaching from the stands.

When the player who is most famous for violating his sports’ rules is awarded a sportsmanship award, it strikes of irony.

I think everyone would reasonably agree that Nadal is respected by his peers. He is a wonderful ambassador for tennis.

But it’s curious and amusing that he wins the sportsmanship award despite receiving illegal coaching. It shows that his fellow players don’t seem to be bothered by his “cheating” too much. Personally, I don’t think it’s such a big deal, either.


dimwitted recluse Says:

Leon, you’re not alone in wondering that. Here is TP from Tennis Planet of course, and no doubt you have read this:”I cannot imagine that Nadal did not put in a concerted effort to topple Federer for this latest coup. He must have worked very closely with his team to craftily orchestrate the overthrow as it certainly didn’t happen accidentally. Don’t think winning 3 Slams played a significant part but it surely didn’t hurt”.

Of course, you never know with TP, this could be pure tongue in the cheek stuff designed to draw forth all those lazy posters who can’t be bothered to contribute. What’s your view?

The Nadal posters on this site are all in a tremendous huff, threatening to withdraw their labour and even to emigrate to Mexico or something if immediate action is not taken. Others are issuing dark warnings that democracy itself is at stake, and altogether one senses a tremendously enjoyable spirit of righteousness is being generated. Militancy is in the air, an exciteable youth man was heard to urge:”we should go on strike!” He looked around him, as if wondering what might serve to act as a barricade.

One Nadal supporter nudges another: “what about that, eh?” Startled, the 2nd Nadal man says “what about what?” and visibly wilts before the contemptuous look in his comrade’s eye:”Oh, yes, that, of course; outrageous, absolutely outrageous. Fellow ought to be horsewhipped!” He nods his head vigorously before glancing up at his comrades’s stern visage:”er- what exactly is it that this – er- monster – um – has said,” quails before the menacing look he receives and hurriedly adds:”ah, yes, of course. Shocking, quite shocking. Perhaps we could get him arrested?”

From my point of view, the strange thing is the emphasis some Nadal posters are putting on the fact that the outrage is not the effusion of some other poster, but has been written by one of the resident site authors. I don’t always remember to read these, myself, especially if they are not by Sean Randall or Ben Pronin (both of whom I feel I sort of know, like other posters). But also, frankly, so what? Who cares what Jeremy Davis or anybody else says? If you don’t like what he says, say so! It’s a bit like an editorial in a newspaper (I rarely read papers any more). They could thunder away, but I never cared in the slightest, it was certain opinionated bastards who felt they had some sort of divine right to spout forth on anything at all, these were the ones who got up my nose. And in a sense, these journos were like the posters on this site.

I agree it’s a storm in a tea cup. Personally, I think this whole thing about Nadal being coached is a nonsense, and I’m no johnny-come-lately here. It just doesn’t matter. Nadal wins because he is far too good for anyone else, period. There will always be those who want to question this, so what? It’s a rough and tumble. Anyone who figures hugely in the public eye is going to get tomatoes thrown at him – simple human nature. In the end, it will all be forgotten, including the endlessly scurillous attacks on Federer’s character.


contador Says:

Leon -the cheryl murray blog was posted around the time that federer won AO, if i recall. a very popular blog which featured yucking it up about federer getting the award.

it was her opinion, not real journalism. no need to get excited about it but the entire forum had clearly taken a turn and tone toward being an anti federer forum months prior to her writing that particular blog.

from the first time i read TT it felt like ground zero for the fedal wars post AO 09. i made myself fairly obnoxious defending RF, i have to admit. my excuse – “newbie”

found the title: (u made me go looking in TT archives)
“Federer is Sportsman of the Year Again and I Must be Missing Something” 2/17/10 . well over 600 posts.

i think we fans forget what an astonishing achievement winning 3 slams in a year is. federer made it seem common. but their competition understands – it’s huge! the baton is being passed to nadal for real and it’s a big moment, actually. i am not surprised, however.

*************
DR – taking the “anthropologist” approach? lol… xD

i was just reading tennis world posts and some were joking about who was practicing with whom – rumor is rafa is hitting with “evil” soderling and the two are hanging out….. like sure, like to see that! or fed and berdy …


dimwitted recluse Says:

Contador, on Tennis Planet, they have some pictures of Soderling hanging out with Ferrer. Not quite Soderling and Nadal, but still, faintly surprising…


contador Says:

Dari! thanks : )

andyR and nole at the piano…loved it!

have to check out TP, DR. it’s my fantasy ok? i like to imagine soda and rafa hitting for fun and hanging out


Skeezerweezer Says:

Contador,

Didn’t know that about TT, interesting to know, Thanks.

DR,

Good read as usual.


Kimberly Says:

dr, this is my last post on this topic as i am already beating it to death. Is it so wrong for Rafa fans who don’t like the article to want to commiserate with others DR. I know you are more of an overall tennis fan but if their were such a biased derogatory article about fed, djokovic, roddick or anyone else with a fan base I can promise you people would be upset.

The article says rafa does not deserve the award. It calls him a cheater. I don’t know how you wouldn’t see how his fans don’t see that as quite upsetting. And human nature is to want to share anger/disappointment with others you know feel the same.


dimwitted recluse Says:

well, one can have lots of fantasies like this. How about George Bush sharing a joint with Bin Laden? Tony Blair being isolated on a small island for 6 months with Gordon Brown (I suppose only Brits will understand that one). Mindy dresses carefully for a night’s dancing with steve-0. mem ponders whether to accept Skeezer’s anxious request for a date. madmax and Von plan a sisterly outing. Sarah Palin is stuck in a lift with Barack Obama; it is out of order for 18 hours, and rescue finds them hudddled in each others’ arms. Rick pesters Federer for his autograph. And so on…


contador Says:

LOL…..my sides are hurting, DR…!!!


Skeezerweezer Says:

LMAO


contador Says:

your pairings kinda makes soda and rafa hitting and hanging out sound dull….. not sure which one i like best!


Kimmi Says:

ha-ha funny stuff to read. who deserves what? it doesnt matter, they got it.

dimwitted recl- lol to your two last post above.


dimwitted recluse Says:

well, Kimberley, if you read the article carefully, Jeremy Davis doesn’t actually state Nadal shouldn’t be given the award – he raises a question – and he puts the word “cheat” in inverted commas, which implies that the case is not proven. Altogether, when you consider the utterly mad rants that posters from all quarters have gone in for, the article is quite mildly worded. I think the perceived offence is that Nadal should be subject to questioning at all by an editor, as if the whole thing is just unthinkable.

I agree with you, if Federer in particular but others too had been the subject of such an article, a similar uproar would probably have resulted. And that would have been just as much an over-reaction, in my view, and also providing rich material for a satirist.

My own view is that anyone who goes in for satirising – and it can be an irresistible urge – has to be very careful not to imply that HE is somehow above all this sort of thing. Not at all. We’re all a pretty funny lot, when all is said and done. You, b.t.w., always come across as gentle when you get mad about something. I don’t know how you do it, it’s quite a gift!


contador Says:

i was going to post to give Kimberly a *hug*

knowing it does not feel good to have a fave ridiculed-( the blog Leon brought up and i revisited, for some morbid reason )

DR… made me laugh too hard, kimberly. and i didn’t want to butt in, since you posted to him.


Pam Says:

Tell you you’re wrong? Okay…you’re wrong!


WTF Says:

I think whatever Toni is telling him on court is more like pointing out the obvious. As you said he doesn’t need coaching, and it probably wouldn’t have made a difference either way. What many coaches offer when they talk is encouragement more than coaching. The exception is with Hawkeye challenges. Lots of players look up for a yes/no on whether to challenge or not. I don’t think they should, but it’s not like they’re kidnapping children or anything.

I doubt a player can clearly hear what a coach says between points when the crowd starts making noise anyway.

Still, Rafa should not be looking up at his box.


Mindy Says:

Kimberly,

You don’t seem to realize what the mindset is here. Just read grendel, er, dimwitted recluse’s latest treatise. Of course, Rafa fans are all in a huff over nothing. The end of democracy as we know it? This is what is called a “straw man” argument! No one is saying anything of the kind. It’s so annoying when someone else reinterprets your words and you look at it and it’s virtually unrecognizable! Good grief!

God forbid there was something said about Fed, and looky looky, who brought up the link to Cheryl Murray’s blog about Fed not deserving the sportsmanship award! Yes, by all means bring that up and ignore all of her blogs full of enthusiastic praise for Fed. Or should I go back in the archives myself to post links to the beautiful tributes she paid to Fed? Her admiration for him is unquestioned. This is brought up to somehow cancel out what was posted on this site. Typical! Yet again we have to hear more soap opera nonsense about the horrible bias against Fed fans on tennistalk. Yes, the better to incite and inflame people to go there and attack other posters. It’s interesting because there are Nole fans, Murray fans, Rafa fans, Sod fans, Delpo fans even a few Roddick fans and there were Fed fans until Rafa started winning and Fed started losing.

The Fed fans left because they knew that they would get grief because of their trashing of Rafa, how he was done, would get trounced by Sod in the RG final, would never win another slam, etc. Someone even wrote a poem, repeated ad nauseum, to the effect that Sod would beat Rafa yet again and break the hearts of his fans. Funny, but that person disappeared after the final of RG. When Rafa won Wimbledon, the last of the few remaining Fed fans had to leave because they didn’t want to see the Rafa fans exult in his second channel slam.

I am beyond tired of the propaganda that is being spewed on this site, by way of pretending to be the truth. It is an insult to anyone with even the slightest bit of intelligence and awareness. As I said not too long ago, please go read the blogs for yourself. Someone cherry picked one blog in which Cheryl Murray gave her honest opinion and her reasons. About a week or so after that she wrote another blog entitled “Federer Doesn’t Get the Credit He Deserves”. That one was off the top of my head. If I had the time to go digging, I would, but honestly it’s just better for people to try to keep an open mind and not be led like sheep.

Check out ALL of Cheryl’s blogs and make up your own mind!

I simply cannot believe that posting this drivel gave someone yet another excuse to go on about tennistalk. Some people really are obsessed about that site. Also, saying one is new on a site is no excuse for posting profane and abusive posts. People should know that whether they are new or a regular poster on a site. It’s just simple common decency.


Vulcan Says:

Mindy Says:

“there is an innate bias on the part of the bloggers that write for this site ”

When I first started visiting this site back in 2008 as a Federer fan there seemed to be more harmony – with Nadal taking Federer’s place the number of articles and posts that are geared towards second guessing Nadal’s integrity have appeared to grow exponentially in that time.

steve-o Says:
@Vulcan: I think that is a rather warped notion of fairness to have–that just because one player is under suspicion, writers must devote just as much time to suspicion of other players.

When I said that the focus should be “equally distributed” what I meant was that the attention given to a particular issue should be proportional to the degree of controversy surrounding the issue. If Nadal is twice as controversial as Federer it should merit twice as much attention – not 10 times as much.

“If someone acts in a manner that can appear shady, then he should be prepared for scrutiny. Of course he may not be guilty of anything, but you have to expect people to speculate.”

Agreed, but I’m sure you’ll concur that profiling a professional tennis player’s integrity with a guilty until proven innocent approach would not be the modus operandi of a journalist that is concerned with presenting things objectively. I certainly won’t argue that there are many news sources out there that seek to generate controversy via exaggeration and speculation. While perhaps entertaining to read (particularly if you are into digging for dirt) I personally do not turn to said sources for the purpose of elevating my knowledge level in other more substantive areas. This article would be very appropriate IMO if this site seeks to be “The National Enquirer” of tennis publications.

Kimberly Says:

“what is/should be the standard for the writers?”

That all depends on what kind of news source Tennis-X seeks to be. I myself am still trying to gauge what the primary objective here is. I initially thought back in 2008 that the site was fairly objective and not a sensational, fluff publication. In the past I had sensed a very slight bias towards Federer but couldn’t say it was unequivocal. However, articles such as the one above are borderline fanatical. As I stated above if they want to be a tennis tabloid then so be it…but even respectable tabloids have limits on the degree to which they distort things and go for character assasination. Suffice it to say that posting this drivel on the eve of WTF after the guy just won the sportsmanship award is pathetic and not what tennis is all about.


Skeezerweezer Says:

Break news!

WTF starts tomorrow! YAHOO! I now am reversing my earlier position on having a shorter season to a longer one, when there is no tennis we all are cranky. The players should play 52 weeks a year so we all stay out if mischief.


Vulcan Says:

“if Federer in particular but others too had been the subject of such an article, a similar uproar would probably have resulted. And that would have been just as much an over-reaction, in my view, and also providing rich material for a satirist.”

People care about integrity.

I personally do not care as much about the integrity of satirists as I do role models that millions of kids and other people look up to.

Satire is fine so long as the author that pens it does not underhandedly sneak it into a publication whose supposed objective is the presentation of information free of distortion.
If I buy a copy of GQ magazine I do not expect to see pornography in it.


Von Says:

I don’t usually post on Jeremy Davis’ articles and to a lesser extent on Tom Gainey’s, because I think they write out of displaced anger, more than for the sake of spreading tennis news. Added to that, I’m not one of the beloved group of followers — I’m not liked, and the feeling is mutual. However, I’m breaking my rules today by posting on this thread.
_________________

montecarlo: “BTW if this topic isn’t deleted by tomorrow I ain’t coming back to this site and I am sure many of the posters here will do the same.”

Don’t hold your breath about the article being removed and/or many posters will also stop blogging. It ain’t gonna happen. Most are here to win a popularity contest nand won’t speak up not even for the sake of justice. The only way the Walsh post was removed was not due to moderation, but an outcry from the masses = post deleted. Moderation on this site is just for the purpose of a vendetta and to show who’s boss = wrong use of power.

I think you’re a very fair poster and would hate to see you leave, but do what you feel is right as you have to live with your conscience.
_______________
Vulcan: “I have no problem with the site being a Federer fan site but I do have a problem with it masquerading as being a fair, objective, news source when there is clearly an ulterior agenda.”

This site is far from being a fair one. I don’t have on blinders and I suffer as a consequence, because I’m not one for playing the game. When one disagrees with a writer on this site, or I should say, a specific writer, one is a marked target and their posts are deleted and placed under the umbrella of *moderation*, but instead it’s really NOT moderation, just a vendetta that’s in force, as in “I’ll show you who’s boss”. Fairness and openess to another’s opinions is not the order of the day.
___________________
DR: “madmax and Von plan a sisterly outing.

I don’t find this funny at all. Those who seem to find it humorous is due to their names not being mentioned, but what if I try the following:

contador and Vulcan decides to smoke a peace pipe and put their differences aside; DR and I am it, goes for a boys night out at a pub of DR’s choosing, whooping it up for the night; jane, for once will be truthful and tell DR what she really thinks of him, instead of trying to be his side-kick all of the time; Kimberly will be truthful enough to tell her fellow bracket friends how much she actually dislikes Federer, and most of us will tell DR to stuff it with his story-telling. And, last but not least, skeezer will tell mad-max like a good friend, to keep taking her meds, instead of writing “great post” whenever she attacks those of us who are undeserving of her vicious attacks.

I know for a fact, and I’ve seen it done before, DR would be hauling out the Book of lamentations witing a gazillion posts if it were Federer who was being maligned in this article.


Von Says:

I forgot to add, my post most probably be deleted due to what is supposed to be fair moderation. Anyway, it’s your site, so do as you see fit. maybe, someday, i’ll see a bit of fairness shown towaRDS ME UNTIL THEN vON HAS TO SUFFER WITH THE VENDETTAS……


reg Says:

This is rubbish. It’s insult to the players who voted. They are playing against Nadal and they respect him and voted him the sportsmanship which is way overdue. Federer doesnt deserve years ago when he spoit the Australian Open presentation and keep saying condescending comments on Andy Murray and many other players. This blog should be banned


dari Says:

Good night! When I wake up in the morning, it will be WTF! Happy Tennis everybody!


margot Says:

vulcan: “journalist” and “objectivity” in the same sentence, surely that is an oxymoron?
dr: what I can’t stand is “celebrities” being wheeled out to give an opinion just bcos…Culshaw does Steve Gerrard and makes this point brilliantly.
And if we’re talking “unnatural pairings” what about u two sharing a pint at your local “Ferret and Firkin.”


FedEnd Says:

Why so much fuss about an article?
Its good to see such articles before important tournaments.

These articles and the comments from FEDTARDS provide proper antagonism against Rafa’s protagonism.
Any movie will get boring if the villain turns out to be a dud against the hero.

Offlate there is no proper competition against Rafa in the tennis court, especially the world number is 2 is hopeless and turns out to be a dud against Rafa. This makes all those Rafa wins not so much interesting and exciting. I am happy that there is some antagonism atleast on paper which would help us in looking forward to and enjoy Rafa’s protagonism.
Long live the FEDTARDS !!!!!


Skeezerweezer Says:

DR the satirist, why I never knew :). Hidden talents continually amaze me.

Vulcan,

I don’t believe you would buy a GQ magazine in the first place, but I would believe is that you buy “Popular Science”….ok…ok..couldn’t help it..j/k….you left your self open for that one, lol,,,

After some self indulgence and joke aside, I am glad you posted “people care about integrity”. I wish more people would really care about that.

Kimberly,

You are a jewel. Don’t let what you always read turn you into bitterness. Your fav has got 3 slams this year, shooting for a record 4th, and no one can take that away no matter what happens. Been there done that with the Maestro. Barring health issues, the guy is in his prime, enjoy the ride, and if he wins more slams all this stuff will be meaningless.

Good night dari! :)


FedEnd Says:

If Rafa can win this “JUNK” award for sportsmanship after all the court coachings and dopings, it just proves that all other players are bigger cheats and dopes including Federer. I think Federer lost this award this year because of his bathroom break at the AO.


Skeezerweezer Says:

FedWins,

Thanks for opening my eyes, you started this all imo. Now everytime you post I see Fed = GOAT, 16 slams, 23 consecutive GS semi finals and 237 weeks…and there is no minimizing of the MAN that will ever take that away. Thanks for posting, now it makes me feel all gushy inside everytime.

Now, this is a Rafa article, think you can post something about Rafa without Fed in it? Try it, it might make you feel better about things….


dave Says:

Jeremy Davis: “At Wimbledon this year the 2010 Sportsman Nadal was warned by the chair umpire not to receive coaching from or talk to his uncle in the crowd. Yet later in the same match Nadal was slapped with a code violation for talking to his uncle, who was in the player’s box.”

Wimbledon fined Nadal $2,000 after the umpire had to twice warn him for receiving coaching from his coach Toni Nadal, when Nadal was down 2 sets to 1 to Philipp Petzschner. Nadal was given a code violation by French umpire Cedric Mourier.

It is incredible that Nadal gets the sportsmanship award when there are so many other more deserving players. What a bad example it sets for youngsters everywhere to see this type of behaviour as the model for sporstmanship.

This article in the British newspaper is worth reading:

DAILY RECORD: “WIMBLEDON 2010: RAFA NADAL EDGES ANOTHER FIVE-SET THRILLER AFTER FOUL-MOUTHED RANT AT UMPIRE”
http://tinyurl.com/29rfjot

“RUFFLED Rafael Nadal last night lost his cool and aimed a foul-mouthed rant at umpire Cedric Mourier during his titanic Centre Court struggle with Philipp Petzschner.

The usually unflappable Spaniard blew his top after Mourier gave him an official warning for coaching at a crucial moment of the deciding set.

Nadal had received an earlier reprimand from the Frenchman who believed he was taking instructions from his uncle, Toni Nadal, who was sitting in the front row of the players’ gallery.

The world No.1 reacted furiously to the umpire’s accusations, pointing his finger angrily and swearing at the man in the chair.

However, the tournament favourite managed to block the ugly incident out of his mind.

He came back from the brink to overcome the impressive Petzschner 6-4 4-6 6-7 6-2 6-3 in a thrilling encounter that lasted three hours 45 minutes.

Mourier’s second intervention came in the fifth set when Rafa was about to serve at 15-15 with the match finely poised at 2-2.

It could have easily affected the Mallorcan’s focus but he showed great powers of concentration and incredible mental strength to close out a match he had looked in real danger of losing.

Nadal said: “I didn’t deserve the warning. Sometimes in the past Toni talked too much and I got a warning but not today.

“I was angry and told the umpire I will speak to his supervisor. I haven’t yet but I will.

“Toni wasn’t giving me any tips – he was just supporting me.”

Nadal was delighted to turn things round after struggling for long spells and admitted he could hardly cope with the huge-serving German, who blitzed 25 aces past him.

He said: “The match was difficult for me as Philipp’s serving was unbelievable.

“In the end I think I played well. I had problems and had to try to change things a little.

“It was almost impossible for me to return his serves at times but in the end I got there.

“He has great potential and was difficult to play against.

“I said before the tournament it was a difficult draw for me and that has been the case.”

The first week at Wimbledon has been one of the most entertaining in history and while the championships are still waiting for a major shock the big guns appear to be living on borrowed time.

Reigning champ Roger Federer has looked far from serene and almost exited in the first round while Nadal has now been taken to five sets in his last two matches.

Invincible during the clay court season, where he won all three Masters events then added a fifth French Open title, Nadal has looked vulnerable on the grass at Wimbledon.

The Spaniard found himself trailing Robin Haasse 2-1 in the previous round and, while he survived another major scare, the 2008 champion did not seem at ease with himself for long spells of another classic encounter.

More worryingly, the 24-year-old, who was unable to defend his crown 12 months ago because of chronic injury problems, had to twice call on the physio yesterday to treat elbow and knee problems.

The second seed looked in obvious discomfort although he tried to play down allegations of gamesmanship from Petzschener after he booked his place in the fourth round against Paul Henri Mathieu.

He said: “I think I will be fine. I will get checked out but it is not a big problem.

“People can think what they like but I never call the physio if there is nothing wrong with me.

“It’s been a long season and I have played a lot of matches.

“My knee has been troubling me since Monte Carlo but I don’t want to say anything about it.

“I have played two five-set matches here and will have to miss the Davis Cup and get treatment when Wimbledon is finished.

“For the moment I’m just happy to be in the next round.”

A furious Petzschner was gutted not to have claimed Nadal’s scalp and suggested the Spaniard was faking his injuries.

The seven-time Grand Slam winner took a time-out in the fourth set with his opponent in the ascendancy – to the disgust of the German who insisted there was nothing wrong with his opponent.

He blasted: “I’m sad and pretty p****d off. I couldn’t hold my focus after Nadal had the timeout.

“It was pretty clever of him but I’m not happy.

“You have to ask him if there was anything wrong but if I was injured like this I would be pretty happy. I thought he was moving great.

“Everybody knows he has had knee problems but I felt he was running the same for five sets – and could have ran for two or three more. He’s the fittest guy on tour.” “


Ana Says:

Dear all,
This post is not worth commenting at all. Signs or no signs from Toni (btw – Toni is not always present on tournaments and Rafa still wins). Do we all know what is going on during whole season on ATP Tour? I very much doubt it. Who does? Tennis players. And they know what/for whom they vote for far better than all of us do including Jeremy Davis. Hopefully we will never read articles like this one ever again.

Enjoy WTF

Cheers !!


margot Says:

von: just read yours, gr8 minds ;)


FedEnd Says:

Von,
Very good post at 12:42 am. But Im sure it’ll go unnoticed.


Alex Says:

Are you kidding me? Mybe fans voted federer because he is what he is, the best of the best. This comming from a nadal fan. However dont you think, that players on the atp tour know better than a bunch of people who vote, while sitting on their asses by the computer. I dont article shoul say the fans have spoken, it should say players have spoken. And lets just remember federer breaking his recket, him shouting on umpire at is open. And for the record i know a lot about nadal and i have never herd of Toni coaching him with hand signals, are you kidding me. The guy just made that up…. I hope i dont ever have to read such a article again. Nadal fans are always suportive of federer, i think it is time that federer fans apriciate nadal. Coz like roddic sad we sould be very thankful that we live in this time of nadal and federer, the lords of tennis…


dimwitted recluse Says:

interesting responses – but no surprises, except Kimberley’s continual good humour in the face of provocation. One or two might learn from that, but don’t hold your breath…


dave Says:

Two examples of Nadal’s unsporting behaviour at this year’s Grand Slams

- Wimbledon 2010
Wimbledon fined Nadal $2,000 after the umpire had to twice warn him (including with a code violation) for receiving coaching from his coach Toni Nadal, when Nadal was down 2 sets to 1 to Philipp Petzschner.
Daily Record: “Wimbledon 2010: Rafa Nadal Edges Another Five-Set Thriller After Foul-Mouthed Rant At Umpire”
http://tinyurl.com/29rfjot

- US Open 2010:
Interviewer: “You look to your bench, and you are so nervous that you ask: ‘Where?’ ‘Where do I serve?’ Was it so difficult?”
Nadal: “It was in the last game, when I was serving for the match… I didn’t know where to serve. Down the center, to the middle or to try the classic play of the wide serve and then try to hit the forehand. They told me to serve wide and that’s where I served.”
http://tinyurl.com/3ayoto3

It is incredible that Nadal gets the sportsmanship award when there are so many other more deserving players. What a bad example it sets for youngsters everywhere to see this type of behaviour as the model for sporstmanship.

If the tinyurl links above do not work, these are the original links:
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/tennis-news/2010/06/27/wimbledon-2010-rafa-nadal-edges-another-five-set-thriller-after-foul-mouthed-rant-at-umpire-86908-22364710/

http://www.elpais.com/articulo/deportes/he/terminado/historia/elpepidep/20100915elpepidep_2/Tes


Denise Cumberland Says:

I agree with Alex actually, I have most matches recorded on disc and I haven’t seen Toni coach him either. Rafa Nadal is deserving of every trophy and every award he is presented with. He deserves each and every one of them because of who and what he is. He works harder than anybody on tour, he is fitter than anybody on tour and is the ultimate supreme athlete. Coupled with his humble and gracious demeanor, even in defeat. The same cannot be said for Mr. Federer as great as he has been.


FedEnd Says:

Dave,
“It is incredible that Nadal gets the sportsmanship award when there are so many other more deserving players. What a bad example it sets for youngsters everywhere to see this type of behaviour as the model for sporstmanship.”

It means that Federer and others were not even as good as Rafa. Federer started this year with a win against Davy by cheating him (bathroom break).

Last year Federer was breaking rackets, using F and S words at umpires and still went home with the award. Thats the way it is dude. It is a junk award. Dont care abt awards given by a select few and or awards based on popularity polls. That has no meaning. This sportsmanship award lost its fairness in 2004 and never got better.


Val;brig Says:

Randall your an Ass always have been and always will be also Jeremy Davis is as well.Both Go and do an agony aunts column thats just about all your good for the pair of you.


Von Says:

margot: Missed you for most of the week. Thanks re gr8 minds. You’re a source of inspiration.


sarah Says:

Shame on you for using unfounded allegations inaccurate articles to denigrate the honour that the players have bestowed on Rafael Nadal. Why would you not choose to focus on the countless factual demonstrations of Nadal’s sportsmanship i.e. the extraordinary generousity of spirit displayed to Roger Federer at the AO and consistently since then.
Congratulations to Rafael Nadal, whose sportsmanship is above reproach, and who offers evidence of this consistantly on and off court. Ignoring the high quality of his character and behaviour, throughout outstanding achievements and adversity, dishonours and discredits the followers and writers of tennis in general.
It is a sad comment on the writers that they are not able to recognize and applaud the accomplishments and the nobility of character of this young man.


sarah Says:

btw there was no foul mouthed rant at the umpire at Wimbledon. Nadal took exception to the coaching warning as not deserved and told the umpire he would speak with his supervisor. End. Even when bated by reporters at a post match press conference Nadal refused to be drawn into fuelling the controversy, by stating he addressed it to the appropriate officials and would abide by their decision.


sarah Says:

Please, has anyone ever heard directly that Nadal said he was coached at the US Open. I don’t know that the quote came from but there is no evidence it came from Nadal himself. Had Nadal actually said that there would have been many follow up questions from reporters.


fan4tennis Says:

While this blog enjoys smack talk, why not bring up the previous winner of the Sportsmanship Award and his cursing and admitted well-timed for strategy bathroom breaks and above all, the possible fixing of matches gambling fiasco!!!!

Thank you to the fedfans who stated this was a bad article and defended Rafa. To Tennis-X, I wonder about your letting many use multip;e names and I wonder if the author of this article is one of the troublemakers-in-disguise?


fan4tennis Says:

I’d also like to point out that TT has had tons of pro-fed blogs and usually they have high postings but it is evident but it is evident by the ZERO posts on an article about fed’s gambling scandal, that many, including Rafa fans, do not like ‘alleged claims’ being put forward as truth as seems to be the case here.


fan4tennis Says:

HMMM………so that’s what it takes? One, okay 2 mentions of fed gambling scandal (where is the blog on here for that?) to shut some people up? Let me know where the blog is on that so we can start posting on this supposedly unbiased site or maybe we can just wander over to TT and start posting on Lindahl’s article about it.


Vulcan Says:

This article in the British newspaper is worth reading:

DAILY RECORD: “WIMBLEDON 2010: RAFA NADAL EDGES ANOTHER FIVE-SET THRILLER AFTER FOUL-MOUTHED RANT AT UMPIRE”
http://tinyurl.com/29rfjot

This a very appropriate reference to cite for the discussion here as it is from a tabloid – and in typical tabloid fashion the article has a wildly exaggerated headline with no explanation as to exactly what Nadal said that was a “foul-mouthed rant” – it must be nice to be able call all the shots without having do any research or provide any supporting background for statements.


aleish17 Says:

Jeremy Davis, you certainly got a lot of attention with this article. But it’s not going to spoil my day. You can have it your way.

Im just happy that Rafa finally got a SE Sportsmanship Award. Nothing, and I say NOTHING can ever take that away from him. Congrats Rafa!


5setthriller Says:

Keep posting! If montecarlo wants to cry and pout and not play in your sandbox any more, great! Last time I checked, this was America and we had free speech. So, montecarlo, before you demand that someone retract their words or posts, you might want to go look at the Constitution. Said another way – we won’t miss you montecarlo.


Mindy Says:

Fedend,

Why don’t you check out tennistalk and see just how “biased” they really are! From reading this site and the propaganda from the usual suspects, one would think that there is this raging conspiracy to go after Fed fans. They select one particular blog in which Cheryl Murray expressed her opinion that Fed was not deserving of the Sportsman of the Year award because of his profanity-laced tirade and subsequent fine in last year’s USO final. She even prefaced that with a sincere and respectful tribute to Fed as a great champion. If that’s the best they can trot out, well, that just shows you that they are full of it.

One would think that if someone had not been on a tennis site for a year or so, that they would just not even bother to talk about it. From what I have been reading, it appears that some here just cannot let go. I wonder why.

d.r. – If that post in which you included that reference to myself and steve-o, is your idea of humor, then I’ll pass, thank you very much.

fan4tennis,

Thanks for bringing up that article about Fed and the gambling scandal. Talk about self-righteous outrage on this site! One would think that the world itself was about to come to an end.

Some Fed fans can dish it out when it comes to Rafa, but just look at them get up in arms when anyone dares to question Fed.


jane Says:

dari, just saw that link to the Bryan bros’ v-log now. Very funny and good to see. Those guys have great personalities; they seem like they’d be fun to hang out with. Thanks for posting that, or I’d've likely missed it.


fan4tennis Says:

Mindy, you notice how NO ONE still will reference fed’s gambling scandal, which for those not in the know, referred to an fed’s inside info he gave concerning a FO final (that he ended up losing) and lost an executive some $40,000. This fed site HERE, (yes, anyone with half a brain would consider this a fed site and anti-rafa) has shown it’s true colors!


Ben Pronin Says:

What do you mean? There was an article about it when it first happened.


Skeezerweezer Says:

easy fan4tennis, actually Tennis X used the all inclusive trash news site TMZ for that one and as Ben mentions was posted/written up here. Additionally, we had plenty of comments and posts on that already. It has been discussed thoroughly here. Can we get back to Rafa? :)


Mindy Says:

Skeezer,

No, we don’t have to get back to Rafa! That’s why fan4tennis is bringing up something else for a change. We can play the game, too, you know.

If people on here are going to fight dirty by spouting totally false and inaccurate information about tennistalk, then we can respond and at least clear up all the trash talk and make sure that people know what really goes on there. It’s a favorite target for some reason. Maybe it’s because some people opened up their mouths and spouted off profane and obscene comments, were called out for it and warned and now have this unending grudge against the site.

Ben,

The point that fan4tennis is making is that there were virtually no responses, except for the usual umbrage taken by the usual suspects. They don’t want to talk about it. So much better to focus on Rafa being a cheat and getting coached and therefore, not deserving the Sportsman award.

Then there are dave’s endless links posting more dirt about Rafa. You know, just to keep the garbage flowing. He is an expert at putting up links, finding selective stats to bolster his propaganda about Rafa and just keeping up the hate.

Fan4tennis has already debunked his efforts by posting the stats that he conveniently forgot to include. So he picks and chooses only those that make Rafa look bad, while ignoring the complete picture. I learned a long time ago when I took a course in statistics and political surveys, that you can skew the results by how you frame the questions and also cite statistics selectively to support a biased argument.


Vulcan Censored Says:

Well,

It appears that Von was right on target about the censorship that goes on here…several times I have tried to post another comment on this thread and have been blocked…further impetus to find other – more productive ways to spend ones time – when confronted with dishonorable people the best move is to simply walk away.


dimwitted recluse Says:

maybe it’s a glitch. I tried to post something, short and harmless, and that was blocked.


fan4tennis Says:

Skeezer, you want to talk trash and innuendos and UNPROVEN news, then what’s good for the goose is good for the gander. People here want to trash Rafa and call him a cheater, drug user and other unsavory names…………well don’t be surprised when the shoe is on the other foot. Fed won 5/6 Sportsmanship awards (which we were hounded constantly that because it was voted by his peers that it was more important) so, since tennis-x is, by virtue of these blogs, allowing the integrity of that award to be questioned, we can also question how fed could have won it with his curses, fines, strategic bathroom breaks, racket breakings and of course the gambling scandal!


fan4tennis Says:

Skeezer, you want to talk trash and innuendos and UNPROVEN news, then what’s good for the goose is good for the gander. People here want to trash Rafa and call him a cheater, drug user and other unsavory names…………well don’t be surprised when the shoe is on the other foot. Fed won 5/6 Sportsmanship awards (which we were hounded constantly that because it was voted by his peers that it was more important) so, since tennis-x is, by virtue of these blogs, allowing the integrity of that award to be questioned, we can also question how fed could have won it with his curses, fines, strategic bathroom breaks, racket breakings and of course the gambling scandal!


Skeezerweezer Says:

Ok Mindy & tennis4fan, blog on. I already commented on this article and said my peace, moving on.


Von Says:

“FedEnd Says:
Von,
Very good post at 12:42 am. But Im sure it’ll go unnoticed.

November 21st, 2010 at 7:14 am

_______________
Thanks, FedEnd, at least you and a couple of other posters saw it and that’s good enough for me. I’m sure if I were one of Skeezer’s chosen few, who wrote that, Skeezer, would be ready to stamp his macro of approval.

As you can see, a few aspersions were cast my way already, but it’s not going to stop me. The moderators will give the usual assist. And, as MadMax so gleefully has mentioned to me on another blog there is a gang here who have been emailing and complaining about me = the gang/clan rules Tennis.X. Nothing’s a secret with that one, just get her fired up and she’ll spill the beans in an instant. That said, clan members, your secret’s out, I know what’s going on. Hypocrisy and the clan rules this site.

I won’t be surprised if my post is deleted because I’m answering you, only Fed fans, plus a chosen few can say whatever they want, and it’s ignored.
_____________


Von Says:

“Vulcan Censored Says:
Well,

“It appears that Von was right on target about the censorship that goes on here…several times I have tried to post another comment on this thread and have been blocked…further impetus to find other – more productive ways to spend ones time – when confronted with dishonorable people the best move is to simply walk away.”

I’ve had to live with this since I decided to question jane (one of the chosen few) for one of her ridiculous/inconsistent statements with respect to DelPotro some months past, and since then I’ve been in the dog-house. I’ve been ridiculed to no end by Mad-max, who claims she’s been helping jane out wkith her responses. LOL, poor defenceless jane needs help, and when I try to defend myself, my posts get blocked. Now that’s democracy for you.

Please don’t say you are going to stop posting here also — too many of the intelligent posters have left, and it will be more lopsided than ever. You’re a voice of reason, and a strong one at that, so please continue posting, and don’t let the bullies win. My voice has been stifled, don’t let the same happen to you.
________________


Von Says:

DR: dimwitted recluse Says:

“interesting responses – but no surprises, except Kimberley’s continual good humour in the face of provocation. One or two might learn from that, but don’t hold your breath…”

You’ve been itching for a nice mudslinging fight, casting aspersions my way, but I’ve ignored you, however, from past experience (I’ve been harassed for 3 years non-stop by you) I should know you always try to find a way of getting around anything, as you’ve done below:

“dimwitted recluse Says:
well, one can have lots of fantasies like this. How about George Bush sharing a joint with Bin Laden? Tony Blair being isolated on a small island for 6 months with Gordon Brown (I suppose only Brits will understand that one). Mindy dresses carefully for a night’s dancing with steve-0. mem ponders whether to accept Skeezer’s anxious request for a date. madmax and Von plan a sisterly outing. Sarah Palin is stuck in a lift with Barack Obama; it is out of order for 18 hours, and rescue finds them hudddled in each others’ arms. Rick pesters Federer for his autograph. And so on…

November 20th, 2010 at 10:02 pm
________________
You’ve got the nerve to talk about provocation? Who began the provoking? You? I once told you about 3 years ago, if you don’t want to hear talking don’t turn on the radio. BTW, nice move showering praise on Kimberly, I hope she’s not fooled by the compliments, and can see how many Fed fans are trying to win her over to their side. Those sweet words can turn to arrows in a nano-second.

DR: Don’t bother replying, because I’m not listening, but I know it won’t stop yhou, youll keep plugging away until you get a rise out of me, but not this time ….. it ain’t gonna happen..


Von Says:

“Skeezerweezer Says:
FedWins,

“Thanks for opening my eyes, you started this all imo. Now everytime you post I see Fed = GOAT, 16 slams, 23 consecutive GS semi finals and 237 weeks…and there is no minimizing of the MAN that will ever take that away. Thanks for posting, now it makes me feel all gushy inside everytime.

Now, this is a Rafa article, think you can post something about Rafa without Fed in it? Try it, it might make you feel better about things….

November 21st, 2010 at 1:48 am

_____________________
I think you’re way off mark here, and assigning blame to the wrong person. In defense of FedEnd, he didn’t start any of what you’re claiming, it was your good friend MAD-max, who decided to post a super long list (to use her words to me) “an elongated bagpuss post”, a week or so ago, enumerating all of Nadal’s faults — she did the same on TT. It was a nit-picking session IMO, and then FedEnd retaliated. I think skeezer, at times, you really need to show some fairness. It’s alright to show allegiance to your fellow Fed posters, but I’m sure your conscience should dictate otherwise, as everyone I’m sure, is fully aware of mad-max’s intentions which comprise of inciting, instigating and mudslinging, using the most disgusting name calling.


Von Says:

Something very sad is happening here, and it’s not in the least bit ethical. There seems to be a childish war that was begun between some ex TennisTalk posters who are now posting on Tennis.x, and they are ridiculing TennisTalk even though they’ve moved on. It appears as sour grapes to me.

Why is this ridiculing of Tennis Talk allowed to be written here on Tennis.x? I think there should be a code of conduct and respect for each blogging site, even though they are competitiors. And, as such, posts which are inflammatory and inflated against one site should not be allowed by the other. Also, whatever names a poster uses on one site should not be kept private, as they must have a reason for using a different name. hence, why do some have to make that into some sort of a criminal action?

The only way to explain what I’m attempting to state is to come out and speak openly.

Sometime last year, Mad-max decided to begin posting on this site, and since that time, she along with a couple of other ex TT posters, began ridiculing TT. I think those posts should have been deleted as it’s downright unethical. In my profession, regardless of how much one professional has erred there’s a silent code of ethics, that one would not bad-mouth the other. It would be nice to see any badmouthing of TT discouraged on Tennis.x using that same type of ethical conduct exhibited in other professional fields.

At present, we now have this on-going war between some, whereby what happens on TT is brought over to Tennis.x. I belieive what happens on TT should remain there and vice versa for Tennis.x.

Anyway, that’s just my opinion, and as usual feel free to delete same.


contador Says:

Von.

why do you do this? i am a little surprised you let your own “gang” feed you information that is at the least trumped up charges. i am sorry. i don’t actually know if they are your gang, or whom is in on what. i don’t want to know.

it is really rather humiliating and embarrassing to even write a post like this. but…i feel forced into it. if you were on the bracket challenge site, why didn’t you ask me there? if you saw what i said – it was simply the truth.

i am not in a clan or an email group or a phone group….i don’t have time for that. i work. one of my hobbies is tennis. the last thing on my list is getting into arguments on tennis blogs. (however, that is exactly what i did in defense of federer on TT post AO 09 ) as far as you goes, i met you on TT right about the time you had an argument with Duro. i am not going to take sides – one of the reasons why i try to stay clear of you. mindy i stay clear of for the sake of trying to avoid a sermon. and mem -mem is really rather sweet i am thinking, we just clashed over “there.” but wherever you got the idea that i am emailing madmax- rest assured i am not. i like madmax. i don’t dislike you, vulcan or anyone but i don’t want to litter the forums with a personal post like this one. i want to talk tennis and participate in the kimberly’s draw challenge- have fun. but i was never banned from tennistalk. i have read my share of hurtful gossip on TT, i have just ignored it. my posts took 90 seconds to go through instead of the usual. there is so much false information tossed around that i can’t even respond at this point nor do i want to. my issue was with fan4tennis over “there” during wimbledon 09, neither you nor mindy were posting there at the time. i thought it was solved with f4t. i don’t know how many times i have to apologize.

can we not drag this on, please. it’s the very reason i hesitate to post to you…you are an intelligent tennis fan but i am actually afraid, i must admit, to post to you. this is supposed to be fun -i think. i am sorry your friend veno isn’t posting. i remember reading you and veno before i ever posted on tennisx.

and you know? it was a poster from this forum posting on TT and saying this site leaned more toward federer that got me reading it. i was miserable on TT as many fedfans had left and my interests had moved beyond wanting to fight with nadal fans and anti feds. i was actually becoming more of a tennis fan following other players and smaller tournaments by last fall. and this is way too much info abt myself by now…

i come to this forum to read and talk with other tennis fans about tennis, not gossip or…whatever the rumor is. for my part, no emailing, phoning, plans to meet…nothing. it is really all i want to say abt it, i’m begging…


contador Says:

von, i must go to bed because i get up early to work and my car will be frozen…takes time to thaw.

i wish you happiness.


Kimberly Says:

Von, I read all of these posts and went on tennis talk and saw so e more. So let me try to right the ship and excuse my typos.

The bracket challenge tennisx is a public group, anyone and everyone is and was welcome to join. There is a comments section and the members chat inside it.

In no way did Von or mindy interrupt the bracket challenge as was mentioned on another site.

In the comments section there was some gossip mostly about fed end’s recent provocation but I do recall myself saying Von, that I wasn’t thrilled when you told me to can it with the personal comments (which I have tried as much as someone like me can, to do) but that you were very knowledgeable about tennis and quite capable of enjoyable conversation about tennis.

I wouldn’t even know how to email or call anyone on this site nor do I really have the inclination to do so. Honestly I have two kids with the flu and was really turned off by yesterdays article so wasn’t even going to post until I saw all of your posts. I know you don’t like me, but you seem upset so if this post puts any questions you have to rest then it would make me happy.

I don’t love federer, is that a secret? I hope not. And as to roddick, I like him, like manybthings about him. Do not like when he yells at lines people. It turns me off. But he’s a talented paler, has a great fighting spirit (would never do a roll over like soda or berdych in a final) keeps trying to change his game and evolve, is a gracious winner and a gracious and honest loser, he’s American, and one of the best looking as well although the hat he was wearing in the Carlos moya presentation was not my fav. I wish he would play more offensive like he’s capable of and I think he would get a second and third slam.

You are welcome to join the bracket challenges as is anyone else that wants to have fun. I don’t think what was said about you was really derogatory, you can be tough, but you are smart. I repeated some of this below and can’t figure out how to delete it. This post will probably be deleted by tennisx deservedly as it is probably inappropriate but I hope you see it before it is.

Cons name was referenced and the gist of it was I believe that you could be a tough customer, but were extremely knowledgeable about tennis.


Kimberly Says:

A few more things,

I am a member of a private password protected group on the ATP site created by my husband for people at our tennis club that has nothing to do with tennisx posters. The tennis x fan group is public. All one needs is an ATP login and they click join group. Everyone is and was welcome.

I reread the allegations on the other site that the bracket challenge was disrupted by mindy and I am kind of at a loss here. I simply don’t know what that is about. It’s total nonsense.

But in case anyone felt unwelcome, I want to restate everyone is welcome. Unfortunately the next event is Indian wells but if I haven’t thrown in the towel on tennisx by that point I will post a link.


Von Says:

Kimberly: Thank you for taking the time to go over to TT and read. I suppose you can see all the madness that’s being created over there and who has, and is, doing it — Mad-max. It’s terrible and almost nauseating to me as I’m being accused of stuff I’m not doing, or have not done. Why?? I don’t have an answer. I suppose you read my comment why I began posting on TT in the first place? I’m sure the posts you read gave you an insight of what some of us have to deal with on TT. It’s so sad.

I’m glad that you have decided to set things right, and for that you have my sincere thanks. Maybe, as time goes by, you’ll see that I’m fair albeit tough and I can be soft as well. In fact I’m not even tough at all, but i have to make an effort so that I won’t be railroaded. I had to learn to become tough, and fight back (thank you grendel), because I was harassed to no end. Mad-max has picked up where grendel has left off.

I apologize for telling you to leave out the personal stuff, but there was a reason for so doing. In the past, posters were told to cut it with the personal stuff and stick to tennis. Perhaps my way was a bit harsh, but remember you’re a Nadal fan, and that’s not tolerated by some. I was accused of *chin-wagging* because I used to communicate with another poster in French, just bits and pieces, and it was a kind of warning to you, as I felt eventually, the hammer would fall. Anyway, a lot has changed nowadays, and maybe you won’t be subjected to that kind of abuse as I was.

You stated: “In no way did Von or mindy interrupt the bracket challenge as was mentioned on another site.”

Than k you for stating this and clearing our respective names — it’s greatly appreciated. I suppose you are very much aware that the one who stated such was just being spiteful and a liar.

Thanks for the invitation to jolin the bracket, but I’m not one for too much internet stuff, so I’ll have to decline. Would you believe I don’t even visit Roddick’s website? That’s how bad I am with the Internet.

Kimberly, than ks for your help and kindness. I apologize for angering you initially, but now that’s behind us, i hope we’ll be able to move on in a more positive vein.

______________
conty: Thanks and sleep well– no hard feelings here. I rememeber it well about the car/snow/ice, et al., from my days of living in NYC. It’s one of the reasons I now live in sunny Florida.


Von Says:

Kimberly: “I reread the allegations on the other site that the bracket challenge was disrupted by mindy and I am kind of at a loss here. I simply don’t know what that is about. It’s total nonsense.”

Don’t forget it was Vindy = Von and Mindy. LOOOOOL. It’s funny and pathetic isn’t it??


Mindy Says:

I don’t know to whom I should address this post, but maybe it will be to all parties who seem to have weighed in on the infighting going on.

At least contador has recognized that Von and I are not the same person! That is welcome news! I am sick and tired of reading on here and now on tennistalk, that Von and I are one person who is now being called “Vindy”. It’s childish and disgusting to have to read this over and over again.

To contador,

You don’t have to start making comments about Von’s group telling her anything. So now it’s like divide and conquer. Von and I have had our disagreements, as people can and frequently do here, but we are united on one subject and that is maxi and her reign of terror both here and on tennistalk. It has gotten to a point of no return. It’s out of control.

You say that you don’t want a sermon. Well, pardon me for saying how I feel. If it comes across as a sermon, it is not intended to be that way. I am being called every name in the book on tennistalk by your friend maxi. Today I had the shock of seeing her accuse me of breaking up your bracket challenge, as if I even know what that is at all. Do you know how that feels? Whether you like me or not, I have feelings just like you and everyone else. Do you have a clue as how stressful and aggravating it is to go on either this site or tennistalk and read blatant falsehoods about my character. Now maxi is relentlessly attacking me for thinking that I am so “hot” with language. Well, I will tell you and Kimberly and anyone else who is interested, that this is how I actually talk and write. It’s not grandstanding or showing off or whatever on earth some of you think it is. It is me, pure and simple. So now I should apologize and write like an uneducated person to please everyone?

Words CAN and DO hurt! We are all human beings. I try to be strong and defend myself and stand up for what I believe. I have been described as having a sharp tongue, but at least I don’t go around lying about people and defaming their character.

Go and read the garbage that has been posted to me on tennistalk and then come here and tell me that it shouldn’t bother me.

It is a horrible feeling that I would sincerely not wish on anybody.


Kimberly Says:

Von, I look forward to enjoying future conversation, even tomorrow as one of us will be grumpy with rafa/Andy playing each other! But I promise no drama. I am the first to acknowledge Andy beat rafa fair and square in Miami. Let’s hope it’s a great high quality match!


Skeezerweezer Says:

Ya know, I know some of you are hoping that I will come out and post something about the “fodder talk” about me, and I truly feel honored and important, but I am speechless and have nothing to say on the matter. Von, continue. Please don’t e-mail me anymore, it now goes to “spam”.

Out

PS: 

Kimberly

Just so u know I have never posted at TT, and do not visit there ( well, once ), so I am not up to “speed” of the “drama” that goes on there( seems to be plenty of that here, lol). That has been my choice. Knowing that , I am not qualified to comment on what is going on there other than the time I did visit, and that IMO is enough. I so do not care what goes on there. It may be Heaven and others may think differently, it’s all good, I guess. Good luck with your fav tomorrow :)


Skeezerweezer Says:

Contador,

Great post @ 11:29. Sanity in drama land. Libra lives.


Von Says:

To: contador: I don’t belong to an email group, or a gang. I only email to two people on this site, mostly jokes, and now I know one goes to spam.


Ben Pronin Says:

I still don’t get it. The Federer gambling scandal was brought up and discussed here. What’s the problem? Do we need an article that says the investigation is still going on? Federer has claimed his innocence, the former head of IMG has admitted to gambling but denied that he had inside info from Fed. And the investigation is ongoing. What do you want? I’m sure when there is more revealing news to come out of this it’ll be written about and discussed.

I’m not sure whether to be happy or sad about this thread going from the usual Fedal wars to TT vs TX wars. I’d have to go with disgusted. I speak for myself, at least, when I say I do not support anyone coming here to bash TennisTalk or any other site. And of course I would hope people don’t go on other websites to bash tennis-x. I don’t think it’s an outrage to claim that this site is more pro-Fed and TT is more pro-Nadal. The validity of that statement can be discussed. But to say TT sucks or whatever it is that has been said is just ridiculous. And this personal bashing is absolutely unacceptable. Seriously, bash players, to a degree, but draw the line there. We’re discussing a sport here. I’m not going to call my cousin a retarded fanatic for liking the Giants (Manningtard?).


Skeezerweezer Says:

Kimberly,

Who else has access to the ATP challenge posts that you created other than the registered posters BTW?


Skeezerweezer Says:

Ben,

Bit of frustrating here myself, after 120 + comments, went from discussing Rafa’s award ( plus and minus ) to defending another site, “tards”, and “you did this to me and my love and I am hurt” to “validating” it, to “you all need to listen” then to “fedtards” back to “disgusting and childish”, but don’t forget the “reign of terror” and “do you know how it feels”?

Well, I “FEEL” numb,,,,

Sooo glad there are tennis matches tomorrow to talk about. Maniac drama I am not good at, however this is a “dysfunctional” tennis blog, my bad, I forgot. Blog on.
teful venomous stuff” tuh I don’to know…..”WTF?”

Tennis matches can’t come soon enough…..


Kimberly Says:

Terrible insomnia…skeezer, I imagine any registered user on ATP draw challenge site. It is a public group. Congrats on feds win. It was an NFL Day with two sick children so uncaught none of them but thenscoreline looked convincing in both.

Ben, congrats on the eagles. I have to wake up in three and a half hours so hopefully I’m out.


Mindy Says:

Ben,

You know who started it. It’s always the same person. This time it’s gone too far. You have also read the posts trashing tennis talk. Von, fan4tennis and myself have been the only ones trying to set the record straight. Otherwise, I would have no reason to even discuss it.

Skeezer can go on with his usual nonsense and making fun of people and what they say or do. He acts like the critic for this site whenever anyone posts.

Just remember that it only takes one person to create this kind of havoc. Yes, we should be talking about tennis, but it always comes back to good old tennistalk and how the bloggers hate Fed and love Rafa and the moderators go after only Fed fans and it’s all a giant conspiracy to drive out Fed fans. It all sounds rather ridiculous, doesn’t it?

Let’s be real here. If people were just saying that they think there is some bias in favor of Rafa in tennistalk, then fine. However, it has gone much further than that and all you need to do is read the posts to see who starts it all the time. I have had enough of it and believe it has no place here. So when Skeezer laments for the umpteenth time that we are not talking about tennis, maybe he could remind some of his group that they happen to be the offenders all too often.


Skeezerweezer Says:

More “Melrose Place”, for the “umpteenth time”. Post stands. There is tennis to be played, and after 140 plus comments, there is better “tennis fodder” to discuss. This discussion has had more than enough comments and opinions, all mostly well said. You and Von can stay here, I am on to the next Tennis X “Classic” article. See you there :)


Skeezerweezer Says:

Kimberly,

Thanks….ESP…same here. Sweet dreams, go to sleep already,,,,,!!!!!!!!!!!! Niners and Raiders…ugh! Bad NFL day for my favs…..Eagles rock…..Colts/Patriots game of the day..no?


contador Says:

read my posts again, mindy. never do i say TT sucks or “trash” it.

i’m not bashing or ridiculing tennistalk. that’s an exaggeration. i am stating the fact that TT is mostly a nadal and an anti federer site, at least when i posted there. also when i posted there it was moderated with that bias.

that’s a critique not ridicule, trashing or bashing. in fact someone wanting a site leaning in that direction might want to go check it out.

that is how i found tennisx. someone from here went there and said this was too biased toward federer which prompted me to check it out.

please. i have a right to my opinion.

let’s drop it. or you can keep going with it, i am dropping it.


contador Says:

no problem Von. i went “there” to check archives saturday. but after your posts, went and read some threads.

it’s a blizzard here and i cant sleep….have to try.


Harkesh Attri Says:

Nadal is Nadal. Anybody cannot beat him if he is 100% healty. He moves on court like a Tiger. He is really a strong player.


Abbie from Cape Town Says:

Just let it go, Jeremy. The guy speaks Spanish, not English and there is a lot lost in translation. Nadal is a great sportsman and I am sure he would not cheat. Let it rest and lets look at the great things in tennis and stop hammering on the negatives. Long live Tennis and its current generation of great tennis players.


dimwitted recluse Says:

“You’ve been itching for a nice mudslinging fight, casting aspersions my way, but I’ve ignored you, however, from past experience (I’ve been harassed for 3 years non-stop by you) I should know you always try to find a way of getting around anything, as you’ve done below:”

I am familiar with Alice in Wonderland territory from Von, but this beats everything. I have had absolutely no idea how to deal with you over the last 3 years, with your utterly mad ranting, your bland reversals of the truth and so on. And yes, I’ve been provoked into ranting myself – you’ve driven me close to being over the edge – males aren’t supposed to say this, are they, but everything is different when Von is concerned – simply because no rational or reasonable response even can get off the ground with you.

But this beats everything. How dare you? How absolutely dare you? I seriously have to think there’s something wrong, badly wrong, in your mind for you to write such stuff with such apparent conviction.

I’ll explain what I mean for any poster who happens to be listening. For the last few weeks, I have been conscious of Von trying to needle me, making her usual sarcastic remarks about my integrity, but without putting my name on the posts. Paranoia on my part? No, I understand perfectly when Von wishes to have a go at me. I think what started it was a post in which I attempted to debate Roddick with her, she having said something which, in my view, was wrong. This is always a non-starter, really, Von doesn’t do open Roddick discussion, but I (mistakenly) thought that we had got to the stage where we could have a rational and polite debate. The tone of my post was rational and polite. Von did not reply.

But then I got the whole series of little needling insults, and each time I didn’t reply. I absolutely LOATHE arguments with Von. Just hoped it would go away. But then again, another gratuitous insult – this time laughing at my alleged objectivity re Federer and Nadal.

Finally, I was provoked, and wrote a long post, trying to explain where I was coming from in turning from hating – and liking – Nadal into something much more reasonable. I took a leaf out of Von’s book and didn’t mention her name. I may be wrong, but I got the feeling that Von’s posts were a little more reasonable for a couple of days, I even thought she might be slightly ashamed. I’ve never come across anyone less given to shame and recognition of how ugly their behaviour can be, so this was naive of me. But I did.

Von now quotes the comparing stuff I did, spontaneouisly in response to another poster. Yes, it was provocative, but it wasn’t ill-humoured, not the kind of deeply, rancid ill humour which Von delivers when she is of a mind. Although it was off the cuff, I thought long and hard before putting in the bit about Von and madmax. I still laboured under the delusion that Von was a little ashamed, and I could therefore poke a little gentle fun – but no, how stupid stupid stupid of me. Anyone less capable of taking a joke than Von is hard to imagine.

Meanwhile, the truly evil thing which Von does – and I stick by this word, it is evil, the behaviour is evil, not the person – is whenever I ever say anything nice about anyone (unless it is someone irretrievably damned like madmax), I am making it up, I’m doing a nice move, I am manouevring. This is not only sick – and it IS sick – it is about as offensive as you can get. To take Kimberley, I have always been incredibly impressed by how she manages to combine an utter devotion to one player and at the same time 1)remain quite objective about him – she is not one of those who thinks Nadal can never be beaten if he is at his best;2)her generally emollient and goodhumoured tone. Emollience is not – to put it mildly – a strength of mine, and I am always drawn somewhat, in a wondering sort of way, to people who have it. The idea that I could suddenly turn on Kimberley is a sick idea of Von’s. I might make gentle fun of her though, I might do that of anyone in the Universe – but I wouldn’t expect Von to appreciate the difference. She, like me, is what you might call challenged when it comes to “emollience” – difference is, she shows absolutely no signs of recognizing this.

The business with jane, again, is just disgusting, utterly demeaning and disgusting. I have no idea what is at the root of Von’s quarrel with jane, for the del Potro thing is so trivial, particularly when you consider Von’s own propensity to turn 180 degrees (the exception, always, being Roddick)when it suits her – that one assumes something else is at work. That is not my business. But for the record: I do not assume jane likes my posts, though I think she does sometimes – unlike Von, she has a generous mind, and can accomodate that which is not immediately aggreeable -but I think mainly she is aware of how we often used to battle. She is sick of that, and I suspect she is moved by the thought of live and let live where I am concerned. She is not afraid to tell me off, though, if she thinks I’m out of order – one incident concerning Verdasco, I recall, she was very sharp. And I was contrite. She has earned respect. Meanwhile, I also respect the knowledge she is garnered over the years – one would want to be very sure of oneself before taking her on on matters of fact. All of this is trite. Why am I having to say it?

I don’t belive you, Von, not any more, when you say you want no dealings with me. That would be perfect, so far as I am concerned. History suggests that sooner or later, you’re always going to want to have a spiteful little dig at me. Still, try. You may be certain I will respond.


dimwitted recluse Says:

I meant, “try” to keep away from me. And by “I will respond”, I meant to just that.


margot Says:

dr: Oh how I wish you hadn’t gone there! Bad timing my friend. Von and Mindy have been on the wrong end of completely unjustified accusations on tennistalk and I really hoped that Kimberley’s graceful, honest and gutsy explanation and Von’s gracious acceptance would have drawn a line under everything.
For the record, I blog on other sites including, shock horror, tennistalk, which is mostly comprised of erudite, funny and knowledgeable folk- just like here in fact! So no more “site wars” please.
BTW Vulcan Uncensored “erudite and knowledgeable” that’s u Mr., so please don’t go.


queen Says:

Blah blah blah that’s how your article sounds Jeremy Davis. Nadal won get over it. I cannot even read this shit anymore. Mind boggling.


fan4tennis Says:

contador: “my issue was with fan4tennis over “there” during wimbledon 09, neither you nor mindy were posting there at the time. i thought it was solved with f4t. i don’t know how many times i have to apologize.”
I hoped a previous post had let you understand that I had no problems with you. You had stated to another poster here BEFORE I started posting about the Wimby incident and to me, you explained yourself and now it’s done. My problems recently have mainly been with maxi/madmax and her host of other names. She has been the starter of the tennis-x/TT wars and she has literally been hijacking threads over there just to try to start fights (quite a few fedfans have told her to quit it but she never does). The moderators have come back from vacation and have informed us that they are going to start the enormous task of deleting her personal insult-filled rantings.

Von: At the risk of screamed at, please just stop responding to her on TT. She feeds on it and between yours and her posts, we have to scroll forever to get to ANY tennis talk. A group of us has gotten together (fans of ALL different players, not just any one player) and while the initial talk was not of tennis, it served to redirect the conversation to a nicer level and get it back to where it was before fed lost that first set and maxi started.

Mindy, you and I converse mostly elsewhere so you know what I am saying.

Moderators of this site: As long as she continues to trashtalk other sites, people will continue to defend them. If it is allowed, then expect posts to be defended, just as people defend Rafa or fed against UNPROVEN allegations. To try to shut a Rafa fan up by asking them to not mention fed in a Rafa blog is hilarious. Please try to find ANY blog here or elsewhere, where a blog devoted to Rafa OR fed has not mentioned the other.


dimwitted recluse Says:

margot

i know absolutely nothing about tennis talk. I do know that Von has been kind of stalking me here of late – and I rather object to her pretending it’s the other way round. I’ve tended to ignore her gibes – which are serious ones, margot, they imply I am fundamentally dishonest, and nothing I therefore say about federer or Nadal can be taken at face value; on a tennis site, you can’t get much more accusatory – but enough is enough.

If Von is serious about not having anything whatever to do with me – and by serious, I don’t mean an instant gut reaction but something which will last – I can promise to match her.


Sean Randall Says:

OK, further “TT” drama will not be tolerated.

If you want to slam Nadal, Federer, Murray’s outfit etc., go ahead. But this maxi-von-mindy-whatever hubbub ends now.

Please take it somewhere else. Not here. Future posts related to that topic will be deleted.


dari Says:

Thank you, SeAN.


Skeezerweezer Says:

Thank You Sean!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


stu Says:

phew. can we finally talk tennis now?


Von Says:

Well thank you Sean, this should have been stopped ages ago. At least i can have some peace frand know that I am really Von.


Von Says:

Margot: At least you knolw what goes on and thank you for the support.


Mindy Says:

Sean,

Thank you! I hope that it is now clear that I am really Mindy and no one else.


margot Says:

Von: :)


Kimmi Says:

OMG! glad to see Seans post. please keep it real!


zola Says:

This is as shallow as tennis-x can get. Sinking lower than the level of the national enquirer.

I hope team Nadal takes legal action against tennis-x and this joke of a writer. Obviously Nadal or anyone not named Federer is accused of something until proven otherwise. Grow up a bit!


charlie Says:

It should take a whole lot of fair play to be given the Stefan Edberg Spotsmanship Award, and from what I understand Nadal might not be such an outstanding sport after all. The artile asks an honest question, outlining these obvious hand signals from uncle Toni, but none of this is being directly addressed by the critics here.

If you disagree with the article, please try to build an argument!
PS. I very much doubt Edberg received any hand signals from his coach back in the day.


paradox Says:

Federer never deserved sportsmanship awards all these years considering Federer`s outbursts against umpires and ungracious comments about fellow players.It was a sham.


paradox Says:

In the beginning itself Roger was arrogant that after winning couple of slams he claimed that he has beaten AGASSI so many times that he does not fear him.Atleast he should have showed some grace.AGASSI WAS A LEGEND AT THAT TIME.FED WAS JUST STARTING OUT.WHAT A GRACE!


paradox Says:

When Federer won Miami 2005 by beating Nadal,he praised Nadal`s game.But after being beaten in French open 2006,he claimed that Nadal is a one dimensional player!.He claimed that for winning on clay a player need not be complete!.Sour grapes.After Nadal won 2010 Wimbledon,Federer claimed that US open will be the most difficult one for Nadal to win as it is the fastest court.But just after 2 months,when Nadal won US open too,Federer claimed that all courts has become slower!!!.He should be given award for double talk rather.


paradox Says:

This year when Federer lost to Soderling in the French open,he claimed that rain helped Soderling!.During the beginning of the Wimbledon 2010,Federer claimed that he is physically perfect.But when he lost against Berdych,he claimed that he had bach problems!!!.What a master of double talk.He should never have got all those awards in the past years.


paradox Says:

Now let us talk about his grace with umpires!!!.During 2007 Wimbledon final,while arguing wilt umpire he was using expletives and was even asking the umpire to switch off hawk eye!.During 2009 US open final he was FINED for using profanity.He was ordering the umpire to not ask him to keep quite!!!.IN 2009 he even did not shake hand with the umpire after the match couple of times.What a grace!.I WONDER HOW HE GOT ALL THOSE AWARDS IN THE PAST.HE NEVER DEESERVED IT.


Dan Says:

Nadal is amazing; perhaps greatest athlete in the world right now. BUT, he is cheating. It’s flagrant and there’s videotaped evidence in all of his matches. You can all say we are Nadal- haters but the fact is, there are rules and he should abide by the rules, or work to change the rules. Sharapova and tons of other players rely on illegal sideline coaching too, but it does not make it right. It’s unfair and disrespectful to the players who abide by the rules. In sum, it’s unsportsmanlike.


Catherine Says:

Couldn’t agree with you more, Dan. What is really so ‘terrible’ about Jeremy Davis’ post? That he questions something that everyone with two working eyes should have been able to see happening plenty of times? Nadal doesn’t always abide to the rules of the game (and neither do a lot of other players), and hence, he should not have gotten this award. Mind you, before I get the usual FedTard/RafaHata-verdict bestowed on me – I don’t think Federer should have gotten it either, and thought him winning it last year was quite disputable as well. It kind of baffles me to see it going to top players about every time the past 10 years or so, as if the lesser gods aren’t just as ‘sportive’ as them? The SE-award should no longer be a prize for ‘best sportmanship’, but rather yet another ‘most popular player’-award. Which I think it already is by now.


Vulcan Says:

Well,

In the words of my childhood hero Popeye:

I’ve had all I can stands and I can’t stands no more!

It’s time for at least an extended sabbatical for me.

Playing chess against street hustlers is one thing…playing 3-card Monte is another.

As much as I enjoy the neurotic energy that exists on this site I have come to realize that the impartial negativity is beginning to interfere with my enjoyment of the harmony that is so much an integral part of the great sport of tennis. Too often lately I feel like I am bobbing for apples in a port-a-potty when I open up this blog and read its contents.

Although the benign comment that I made regarding the tabloid was finally posted, the research that I set out to do regarding negative comments about Federer after Wimby 2008, revealed, as I expected, not so much as a sliver of criticism of Federer and his using the darkness as an excuse for his loss. Little or nothing was said by the resident bloggers here about his behavior and what many would describe as poor sportsmanship. Nadal on the other hand would fair better on this blog if the editors at “The Globe” were in charge and decided to treat him like a pop icon with issues.

Parting Shots:

Jane: I don’t know how you do it but so long as people like you can maintain their composure and continue to make level headed posts there will be at least one sane person on this blog.

Von: I’m glad we were able to bury the hatchet and I apologize again for some of my mean- spirited comments regarding Roddick. Your’e a very knowledgable person and should make Roddick proud as a fan (I hear he has a 130 IQ). PS: thanks for your kind words persuading me to stick around – I will miss our head-butts.

Margot: Thank you as well for your kind words asking me to stay – I enjoyed reading your witty one liners.

Grendel: Your musings were a pleasure to read – its a very noble thing to try to paint impressionistic murals on subway cars covered in graffiti – regarding our showdown at the OK Corrale I will let Carl Sagan speak for me at 0:18: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pqO1KFV0S8

steve-o: Thank you for posting the references that document the occassions where Nadal has apparently used a couple of his injuries as explanations for his losses. I very much liked your big brother little brother analogy – I think Rafa has a lot to learn and Federer has set a very high bar for him.

Skeezerweezer: Popular Science aye?…great magazine! But I’ll have you know that I have been known to check out GQ on occasion…(remember that issue that featured Hingis on the cover)

Zola: I recall you from the early days and having once been a prolific poster on this site – it seems you have likewise decided that this site is not exactly nirvana for Nadal fans. Let’s hope he can continue to do us proud both on and off the court and that he is able to rise to meet the challenges that go along with being numero uno.

Mindy: You and Kimberly are clearly the anchors on this site for Nadal fans…you both seem to be secure enough to be able to withstand the day-to-day BS that that entails…best of luck to both of you – and lets hope that it’s a Nadal-Federer final for WTF so we can see some great tennis!

Fedend: I have to admit that your diatribes against Federer were often amusing…but for someone of your intellectual caliber I’m guessing that you will realize eventually that you are pissing in the wind. In any event it can be fun to play head games with the 3-card Monte guys!

I am it: I enjoyed our discussions and regret that I was unable to respond to your last post.
Very quickly I will remind you of what I was saying about the flock of birds: When you get a chance – get away from the computer a bit – go outside – and look for a flock of birds – and notice how the flock moves in synchronization. Synchronized movements that would be almost impossible without something that transcends casual explanation. Telepathy perhaps? There have been studies such as the one on the Rockette dancers which seem to indicate that their synchronized movements would be impossible without something akin to telepathy. Whatever it is it seems to imply a connectedness that all living things share.


dunbar Says:

Vulcan – grendel here. re Popeye – didn’t you think there was something curiously alluring about Olive Oyl? At any rate, I trust your sabbatical isn’t too extended although, life being finite, there is this business of moving on.

Sagan (in your you-tube clip)was quite emollient on the question of God – admirers of his (like Dawkins) don’t believe anything essentially different, but boy, is the tone different. I had a look at another of those Sagan clips actually, and I was surprised to see him paying due respect to the ancient Hindu Cosmogony. It is of course poetic, yet almost eerily in tune with some modern scientific thinking. In the end, though, you always come to the big “I don’t know”. I don’t mean about God – I see no more reason to attach significance to that concept than to Father Christmas – no, about origins in general. Sagan was an optimist and believed – I think I am right in saying – that progress (in terms of knowledge) was possible in this area. I don’t believe so. That science can unlock endless wonders is certainly the case – and that is the operative word, “endless”. With every padlock you release, a thousand more spring into being.

Most of what Sagan said in your clip is a bit dated now – the Soviet Union was still extant! But he spoke in the true tradition of noble American optimism. Personally, I feel this is an illusion. Long before this century is out, China will be the pre-eminent power, and that will be very different indeed to the American hegemony, which will seem incredibly benign in retrospect.

b.t.w. if I may intrude in your note to i am it,this business of flocking – synchronization of movement – is seen in shoals of fish even more spectacularly than in birds, I believe there is a relatively simple explanation for it. Basically, none of the participants of the flock or shoal have any concept of the flock or shoal but simply follow the movements of their immediate neighbour. Very tiny effects build up in toto to make a hugely impressive artifact. And after all, this is the basic rationale behind “natural selection” which acts in effect and in the million tiny steps which comprise evolution, as an unconscious designer.

Finally, I wonder if we’ll see a Fedal final. It would be great to see that in the AO. Of course I’d want Federer to win, but I really don’t mind about Nadal now. You heard about the chap who’d said he’d looked death in the face, and found that after all, it wasn’t such a big deal….


Von Says:

Vulcan: I only came back to post because of you, so I hope they let this through.

Yesterday, I also decided silently to call it quits. This is not a place for a Roddick fan, nor for one who bucks the system, so to speak. I’ve never been a favourite on this site and I’ve had one too many character assassinations hurled my way.

I’m sorry to see to leave, but if you will recall when you joined this site in ’08, there were a lot more knowledgeable posters commenting at that time, and sadly, they’ve also left. That said, you’ve joined the ranks of the very perceptive.

Please accept my since apologies also for our many butt-headed arguments, but they were fun weren’t they? I think we both learnt from each other. The important thing is that one has to be big enough to accept when one errs and make a concerted effort to do better the next time. I think we both conquered that deficiency in our personalities, and are better and bigger people. It’s sad that some can and/or never will see life through those glasses.

Take care mon ami, and who knows maybe we’ll butt heads again in cyber space. I leave you to ponder the following by Irvin Yalom:

“Men who accept as an ideal an irrational goal which they cannot achieve, never lift thir heads thereafter — and never discover that their bowed heads were the only goal to be achieved.”

And, from Nathaniel Branden, The Six Pillars of Self-esteem, “If one is to love oneself one must behave in ways that one can admire.” God’s speed to you.


Jules Says:

Jeremy Davis should be fired for writing this slanderous article. Spreading lies from hearsay is irresponsible writing, and is so disrespectful to the dignified exemplary sportsmanlike behavior that Nadal displays on a daily basis. This post is complete and utter garbage and I will not return to this site again. Un-following tennisx now and recommending the same to my followers.


dunbar Says:

Vulcan, I’d like to add one thing to my post to qualify it, in relation to the Sagan link. i don’t know if you are familiar with Evelyn Waugh, who was a great 20th century English novelist who converted to Catholicism in his thirties. Someone said caustically to him that turning to God hadn’t done much for his character. He replied that however horrible he might appear, he would have been a good deal more horrible without the discipline imposed by the Catholic Faith. This was a courageous response – Waugh was a man on the whole without illusion – and yet somehow unsatisfactory.

Carl Sagan – unlike the new tiresomely militant atheists – expressed sympathy for the idea of a benevolent creator, but remarked that the evidence simply doesn’t warrant any such supposition. Is it possible to just believe something because you know it will do you good? Apart from the torturous circular logic entailed, I don’t see how you can get past the first barrier – your mind won’t allow it even if you are willing. But undeniably religion can act as a consolation and a comfort to many, and it would be cruel to try and disillusion such people, even if you could. There’s a real paradox here which the militant atheists don’t properly address, instead, they focus exclusively on the evil which religions also do. That’s dishonest.

On the other hand, I don’t accept Sagan’s idea of the gradual accumulation of knowledge leading to the possibility of Grand Answers (this is the hidden agenda of the militant atheist lobby, mostly scientists and philosophers). More important, I don’t find that idea comforting, either. I find the idea that we can, potentially, encompass reality, absolutely suffocating and claustrophobic.

Into this gap, religion used to move. It can do no longer, for me anyway. The gap remains, though, and it is an aching one indeed.

Von

My sister, like you a Briton who emigrated to America and long ago took up American citizenship, used to deluge me with books by Nathaniel Branden. I am a great admirer of my sister, a good and brave woman, which is why I permitted this bombardment without saying much more than that Branden wasn’t really my cup of tea. Actually, I detested him. I suspect this might explain a good deal about how you and I just couldn’t rub along in any sort of way at all.

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