Rafael Nadal Presser: It Was Very Important For Me To Break My Losing Streak To Novak
by Staff | April 23rd, 2012, 9:56 am
  • 192 Comments

In his biggest victory in 11 months, Rafael Nadal defeated Novak Djokovic to capture his first title since the French Open at the Monte Carlo Masters. Nadal had lost to Djokovic seven straight times until his 63, 61 win yesterday over the World No. 1.

Nadal’s title was his 8th successive at Monte Carlo where he’s won a record 42 straight matches. Rafa now turns his focus to Barcelona this week.

Afterward Nadal hit on topics including his phenomenal play in Monte Carlo, his knee, his availability for the September Davis Cup tie against the U.S. and of course his big win:

Q. Do you think you played the perfect game on serve and return today?
RAFAEL NADAL: I think never nothing is perfect. That’s the true. I played a very, very good first set, in my opinion, very solid after he start very good in the first game. He had 15 30. The second game, the serve was very important. The three serves saved my game in the second game.
After that I’m happy how I played the first set. My serve worked very, very good. Sure, I had a few free points with the serve. But most important thing, after the serve, I had the chance to go inside with my forehand a lot of times, so this makes a big difference, no?
First set for me was very, very important. I played a very high level. Second set he had much more mistakes than usual.

Q. Nobody would like to take anything away from your eight wins in Monte Carlo, which is a great achievement. But today didn’t you feel that Djokovic wasn’t the real best Djokovic?
RAFAEL NADAL: No, Djokovic wasn’t the real best Djokovic. In other finals that I played against him, I wasn’t my real best, too. But the real best are both. My real best is when I play well and when I play bad. The real Rafa is not only when I play my best. The real Rafa is when I play well, when I don’t play that well.
If I take that for myself, the same for the others.
Djokovic had amazing one year and a half, having always perfect, no mistakes. Today, yes, he had more mistakes than usual. I won 6 3, 6 1. Win 6 3, 6 1 is for sure not normal to win against the best player of the world today. But happened. Very happy for my victory. Sorry for him. But that’s sport. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. Sometimes you play fantastic, sometimes you play normal, sometimes you play worst.
Today I played a very good first set. In my opinion, he didn’t have a very bad first set. In the second, yes, but not in the first.

Q. It seems to me that you put more speed on your first serve. Do you agree with that?
RAFAEL NADAL: I had the right feeling on the first serve. I served a little bit more wide than usual. The speed was between 178 to 198 almost every serve. If you have the right percentage, that’s enough. If you put the balls to the right places, is enough speed. And today was a very high percentage, in my opinion, very good directions, no? So I’m very happy.

Q. What is the secret, you have won many tournaments, but you win one tournament eight times? What is the secret about Monte Carlo? You have wind, soft ground. Is this the reason you play every year on such a high level?
RAFAEL NADAL: I always loved this tournament, seriously, since I was a kid. One of my dreams was play here. Is a historic tournament that you see all your idols when you are a kid playing here. Is a tournament that I think everybody wants the right to play.
To have eight victories, the first thing that must happen is lucky because you have to be in the right way, no injuries, perfect conditions for eight years in a row. That the first thing.
Second thing, you have to be playing almost perfect to win eight titles in a row, especially in a Masters 1000. Best players of the world play always. You have to win against the best. If you see the finals I win here, all the finals are against probably top six players. That’s something that makes the victories even more difficult, no?
So a few facts must be unified finally to happen this very special situation, and happened, so very happy. Just can say thank you very much all the organization, all the people who came here support me year by year, all the people who make possible this tournament. Is fantastic because probably is one of the best organizations of the world.

Q. In what time during the final did you feel you were going to be the winner?
RAFAEL NADAL: With the 5 1, 40 15. That’s the feeling. But when you lose seven times, when you are in Australia have 4 2, 30 15, easy backhand down the line, that stays in your mind, no? So to break this confrontation about the seven loses, you have to be very focused all the time, no?
Even with the 5 1, before the game, I didn’t know if I going to win. I know I am in a very good position to win, but always with the humble, with the calm that everything can happen.

Q. You have a lot of reasons to be happy today. What is the biggest reason for you to be happy? The fact you beat Novak or that you won this tournament again?
RAFAEL NADAL: The first thing for me is I win Monte Carlo. The Monte Carlo is the more beautiful 1000 tournament for me. To start the clay court season winning here is amazing feeling. I said before, but this tournament is very special for me. That’s the first reason.
Second reason, my level of tennis was high during the last four matches, since the second round. My level of tennis was very high. Today the first set was the higher moment during all the week, no? For that reason I must be very happy.
Sure, the last win against Novak in final after a few ones losing is for sure important result for me.

Q. You’ve had to withstand quite a few upsets in finals recently. How satisfying is it to beat the world No. 1 and win one of these trophies again psychologically going into the rest of the year?
RAFAEL NADAL: Sure, is important, very important break the bad (losing streak). So is important to break that situation. Is important to win the tournament another time. Especially what tournament is. Is not same one tournament than another. Break that situation, winning Masters 1000, one of my favorites, is everything perfect today.
Tomorrow will be another day practicing in Barcelona to be ready for the tournament. Very happy for that. The only thing that can give me this victory here is the positive energy to keep working hard, to keep try my best every day.
Right now just start the clay court season better than possible without losing a set. But next tournament, have a tough draw in Barcelona, a lot of good players there. Have to be ready for that. I have to try.

Q. You came into the tournament a bit worried about your knee. Do you feel totally happy with the knee now?
RAFAEL NADAL: I am very happy because my knee is not limiting me no one movement. I can run 100% of conditions. That the most important thing. I still feeling little bit. You have pain, but you feel you can run to every ball, the pain never is a problem. Today, that’s the situation, and I’m very happy.

Q. Do you plan to train more light for the upcoming weeks?
RAFAEL NADAL: I plan to keep practicing like always usually. Normal practice, try to be ready for next week. Going to be important week for me. Always play in Barcelona is a special feeling. Try to have just little bit of practice tomorrow and a good practice on Tuesday and try to be ready for Wednesday.

Q. Six wins in Roland Garros, eight wins in Monte Carlo, what stands out more first? Today when you broke Djokovic five times, he never reached deuce. How do you explain this?
RAFAEL NADAL: I said before, if you want I repeat, but my serve worked well.

Q. On his serve.
RAFAEL NADAL: Okay, I didn’t understand the question.
I said yesterday in the press conference that I have to return a little bit more aggressive, I have to return a little bit longer. I did. I did a very good backhand return, very long ones. After that, against his forehand, try to not opening a lot the court. When you open the court to him, against most of the players you are in a good situation, but against him not, because he’s able to open you more later with the next shot.
So try to hit long, but more to the middle. Then I try to have the control of the point with my forehand. Understood that he didn’t serve perfect, but when I was able to return the ball, my returns was almost every time very good, no? The few important ones very high, along with my forehand against his backhand, in the advantage position. After that I felt that I can change the directions.

Q. Yesterday you said it was a little bit too early to face Djokovic. Actually it was not too early to face him.
RAFAEL NADAL: Finally not (smiling). But that was my feeling yesterday. I am not lying you. I told you what I really feel, no? I felt that against Simon I played very long points and I felt a little bit more tired than usual because I didn’t practice a lot my fitness for the last three weeks. That was my feeling.
But today I played aggressive. I had a few long rallies. But at the same time I tell you the match against Wawrinka and Simon helped me to be more fit for the next matches because play long points, your body does better.

Q. Have you made a decision if you want to play for the Davis Cup?
RAFAEL NADAL: Remain a lot of months to play the semifinals of Davis Cup. I cannot think about that having the Barcelona tournament next week.

Q. You will make the decision later?
RAFAEL NADAL: I will make a decision. My body will take the decision. I was thinking to play maybe in the second round against Austria at home, because was a great week for me to prepare the clay court season, practicing one week there with the best players. But my knee says not.
I cannot predict the future. I don’t know how I gonna be after the US Open. Let’s go day to day. If all the situation are the right one, hopefully I will be there. But depends on a lot of things.


Also Check Out:
Federer vs. Nadal XXI
Roger Federer Presser: Give Andy Credit, I Didn’t Get The Lucky Break Today That I Got In Indian Wells
Rafael Nadal Presser: It’s Happy Day To Win The Rome Title Another Time
Nadal Saves Best For Last, Destroys Djokovic For 8th Straight Monte Carlo Title
Novak Djokovic: “Andy Played A Great Match, He Was The Better Player”

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192 Comments for Rafael Nadal Presser: It Was Very Important For Me To Break My Losing Streak To Novak

Humble Rafa Says:

I will make a decision. My body will take the decision. I was thinking to play maybe in the second round against Austria at home, because was a great week for me to prepare the clay court season, practicing one week there with the best players. But my knee says not.

I also promise going forward that my misbehaving body parts will not give interviews on their status. All announcements will come from your Humble Highness himself.


Milos Says:

@Humble Rafa:
My favourite quote:
“I know I am in a very good position to win, but always with the humble, with the calm that everything can happen.” :)


Oleg Says:

Humble Rafa, I appreciate your attempts at comedy, but you’ve got a lot to learn from:

http://twitter.com/#!/pseudofed

Now that guy is funny :)


jane Says:

^ I saw that pseudofed twitter. Very much in the style of Humble Rafa.

My favourite Rafa quote is this one: “But the real best are both. My real best is when I play well and when I play bad. The real Rafa is not only when I play my best. The real Rafa is when I play well, when I don’t play that well.”

Will the real slim shady please stand up, please stand up, please stand up? :)

I love it too when Rafa says “that’s the true.”


Dave Says:

Revealing to read Nadal’s ‘humble’ answer to the direct question: “But today didn’t you feel that Djokovic wasn’t the real best Djokovic?”
Nadal: “No, Djokovic wasn’t the real best Djokovic. In other finals that I played against him, I wasn’t my real best, too. But the real best are both. My real best is when I play well and when I play bad. The real Rafa is not only when I play my best. The real Rafa is when I play well, when I don’t play that well. If I take that for myself, the same for the others. Djokovic had amazing one year and a half, having always perfect, no mistakes. Today, yes, he had more mistakes than usual. I won 6 3, 6 1. Win 6 3, 6 1 is for sure not normal to win against the best player of the world today. But happened. Very happy for my victory. Sorry for him. But that’s sport. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. Sometimes you play fantastic, sometimes you play normal, sometimes you play worst.”

No acknowledgement from Nadal of Djokovic’s tragedy. As Tennis Magazine’s Richard Pagliaro noted of the Djokovic-Nadal match: “Still coping with the loss of his beloved grandfather, Vladimir, who died hours before his third-round comeback win over Alexandr Dolgopolov, an emotionally-depleted Djokovic struggled to find his range and never looked fully emotionally engaged in the second set.”

It would have been interesting to compare what Nadal said after his beatdown of Djokovic in Monte Carlo (winning 54 of 86 points in 79 minutes, with Djokovic making 25 unforced errors to only 11 winners)…

…with what Djokovic said after his 6-2, 6-3 beatdown of Nadal at 2009 Paris indoor Masters 1000 (winning 55 of 88 points in 77 minutes, hitting 31 winners… about twice Rafa’s winners in Monte Carlo). Unfortunately I can’t find a full transcript of that 2009 match except for this newsmedia quote of Novak: “There’s not much to say about today’s performance, except it was perfect… [It was] exactly the way I wanted it. I have done, tactically-wise, everything that I imagined to do and planned to do before the match. I was very aggressive… [I] took the early control of the match over my opponent, and it paid off. I was hitting winners from all over the court and really trying to keep that momentum going throughout the whole match. I didn’t give him many chances to come back into the match.”

So here are Federer’s comments after his 6-3, 6-0 beatdown of Nadal at the 2011 World Tour Finals (winning 54 of 81 points in 61 minutes).
http://www.asapsports.com/show_interview.php?id=76175


skeezeweezer Says:

Slim shady…lol jane.

Some real quote gems here. I could really critique this Interview (again) but for the sake of our decent Rafa fans here at Tennis x I will be silent. Lets just say it stands on its own;).

Everyone knows this was a huge win for Rafa. If he lost it would have been way worse looking forward.


jane Says:

Fed’s use of the word “derails” is a good one – “sometimes it just derails for you’” sounds accurate. And the train is coming fast from the other side while you’re going off the rails. Those ones you just take on the chin and move on I guess.


Kimberly Says:

skeezer, appreciate it. After all, is it nadal’s fault novak played a shit match?

Dave, do we need to keep bringing up the wtf final beatdown? But since we do, here’s an oldie but goodie:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvwaQqQgaUM


Dave Says:

Kimberly, I know for the sake of our decent Rafa fans here at Tennis X you would prefer me to remain silent… but for the sake of the Truth it is important for someone to bring up the facts, in this case the content of the interviews relating to the beatdowns (as opposed to the beatdowns for their own sake… you do realize the difference, no?).

This is important because Federer, as in the example below, tends to get taken out of context and criticized for saying the truth. E.g., “I always think he (Nadal) plays a bit better against me than against other players” at the Australian Open (indeed Nadal played better against Fed in the semi than he did against Novak in the final). Indeed, when you read the full context of Fed’s full comment, what he said was entirely appropriate and true. Yet the news media and some opportunistic Nadal fans took Fed’s partial comment out of context to cast him as a sore loser.

Q: “We have heard what Rafa thinks of the rivalry. What’s your take on it after a game like that tonight?”
Federer: “We have had good matches over the years. I enjoy playing him. The crowd really gets into it, which is nice. We have a lot of respect for each other, which is good, too, I think. I hope it inspires future generations or other players, you know, being nice to each other on the court and all that stuff. You know, works as well at the highest of levels. Yeah, we also kind of, you know, play well against each other. I always think he plays a bit better against me than against other players, but that’s good for him.”
http://www.asapsports.com/show_interview.php?id=77084

Nadal, however, rarely gets criticized for worse comments and is even portrayed as “humble”. Personally, few comments cross the line, but it’s unfair how double standards are used to continually misrepresent Fed’s comments out of context.

As for your “oldie but goodie”, I hope you finally realize after all these years that it was an incredible feat for Federer just to reach the 2008 French Open final — who was still recovering his game from a bout of mononucleosis in 2008 (Roger was always 2 to 3% less in 2008 as a result of his illness, according to his respected conditioning coach Pierre Paganini) — and that according to the rational writer SI’s Jon Wertheim probably tanked the third set once he realized he was not going to win the match from two sets down (in order to conserve his compromised body for the grass season). So woo-hoo to Nadal for beating down on a compromised Federer, whose game and body were not 100%. How many other tennis players — or even other athletes — have been able to reach the final of a major after suffering mono, or even play with mono?

In comparison, there was probably nothing wrong with Nadal at the 2011 World Tour Finals, given he had taken 6 weeks off after losing Shanghai in straight sets to Florian Mayer. Oh, of course, surely Nadal must have given his routine pre-emptive injury excuse before the WTF or run to the toilet or something. What was it that Fish was unhappy about during their round robin match?


Kimberly Says:

he ran to the toilet during the match because he had some sort of indigestion I think, like Ana Ivanovic did in a match. I don’t recall him giving any excuses in the WTF “beatdown” v. Federer other than that if Federer played like that there was nothing he could do to win the match on that surface. Just like in the oldie but goodie Federer said “when you cannot play your game, and he plays exactly like he wants from the baseline you end up with scores like this.”

Listen I love Federer’s interviews. I think them the most eloguent of all the players and if he says a few arrogant things he has certainly earned the right to do so. Rafa may be my favorite player but I personally like Feds interviews the best, as rafa’s often seem like canned speeches which is probably because his english is not great.


Ajet Says:

”Q. Nobody would like to take anything away from your eight wins in Monte Carlo, which is a great achievement. But today didn’t you feel that Djokovic wasn’t the real best Djokovic?
RAFAEL NADAL: No, Djokovic wasn’t the real best Djokovic. In other finals that I played against him, I wasn’t my real best, too. But the real best are both.”

WELL SAID RAFA!!! VAMOS!!!


Dave Says:

Kimberly,
See, you referred to Federer as saying “a few arrogant things”. But fact is, we can apply the same double standards to cherry pick what Nadal or Djokovic says in order to cast it as ‘arrogant’ or ‘an excuse’ or ‘sore loser’. You cherry picked positive things that Nadal said, but as we can see from below, you omitted to mention other things he said after his WTF beatdown that could be used to show another side of not-so-humble Rafa:

- Nadal did remind us that he inflicted a beatdown on Federer at French Open final and that this was only a round-robin match: “When I beat him in the final of Roland Garros, the similar thing was the result; the different thing was the final of a Grand Slam and here is round robin match. That is the only difference.”

- And Nadal did remind us once again of his never-ending injuries: “You know, playing one hour without the right conditions, physical conditions, I had the problem in my shoulder a few weeks ago at home…With that problem yesterday, I wake up with a problem on the shoulder another time, so I had to work a lot yesterday on the recover on the shoulder. Seriously yesterday I didn’t know if I gonna be ready to play today. I tried to practice, and I didn’t had that chance.”
http://www.asapsports.com/show_interview.php?id=76176

Having said that, yeah Nadal’s English is understandably not good so we should be thankful he even gives interviews in English.


Ajet Says:

Dave:

i frankly feel arrogance is ”the element” of all champions, without it they wouldn’t be great.


Ajet Says:

its clear as heck though that federer is the most honest and least arrogant(in words or in attitude) from among the top-3, no arguing it…


Ajet Says:

arrogance and self-belief are almost twins.


Kimberly Says:

Dave, i’m not trying to pick on Federer. They all say a few arrogant things. I can’t imagine a top ten tennis player that does not. I told you, I like Federer’s interviews better than anyone else’s even if he is not my favorite player.


jane Says:

It also must be really tough giving the pressers when the players know quotes will inevitably taken for stories, so they try to be measured in their comments. I think it is kind of funny when the players express a little bit of exasperation, like saying “I already answered but I’ll repeat it” or “i just finished the match half an hour ago, so I haven’t reassessed the whole season yet.” lol, it must get tiring, and these are young men. I think they do a good job all things considered. After years of reading them, i have come to the conclusion to try to read them with an open mind and/or cut the guys some slack. They don’t want to sound too down on themselves, but nor high on themselves; they want to assess how they played and at the same time give credit to the opponent. It is a bit of a juggling act methinks.


Dave Says:

Kimberly Says: “Dave, i’m not trying to pick on Federer. They all say a few arrogant things. I can’t imagine a top ten tennis player that does not. I told you, I like Federer’s interviews better than anyone else’s even if he is not my favorite player.”
Ajet Says: “Dave: i frankly feel arrogance is ”the element” of all champions, without it they wouldn’t be great.”

Yes, agree. As I said, few comments really cross the line, most are acceptable and understandable despite the press sensationalizing things. And what’s ‘arrogant’ is mostly confidence. After all they are supposed to be winners, and this is how winners are supposed to think. Sports psychologist Dr Saul Miller’s book “Performing Under Pressure: Gaining the Mental Edge in Business and Sport” is a good read. And this is a good summary:
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/soac/2006-09-21-introduction-cover_x.htm

Ciao, gotta go. Have fun


dari Says:

You’re right Jane.

I don’t even know how they manage what they do, an hour or less after a match, especially if they are the loser?!

Have you ever had a coach, friend, Sig other ask you about the match in the car after you lost? Not pretty, and I don’t even get paid to pay tennis nor have I invested all my life in trying to play at the highest level.

( I also haven’t had media training ;) ) but seriously, I’m gonna try not to make judgements about these pressers any more, its gotta be so tough…

Kimberly, its cool to hear from non-roger fan that you like his comments in the press- reminds me that I just don’t have on the rose glasses as a fan- he is quite entertaining off the court as well

I really miss watching that guy play- and its just a month break! What about when that grease retires!!!


GiveItaRest Says:

My god, Fed fans are truly bitter. Rafa did acknowledge what Novak was going through in a previous interview. They hugged and spoke at the net also. I believe Rafa said that he had talked to Novak and given him a hug a few days ago. I don’t know how anyone, other than someone who simply burns with hatred for Nadal, could find anything horrible about that interview. Dave, I think I’ve seen you on other sports sites, and you simply say the same things over and over. Nothing new, no real insight, just “Rafa is the devil” again and again.

Your opinions, based upon parsing interviews given by someone with sketchy command of English, are childish, simplistic, and quite frankly unbecoming of someone who claims that Federer is so classy. I wonder how someone as classy as Federer is attracts so many fans who lack that very attribute.


skeezerweezer Says:

^ Oh here we go again, Fed and his fans are to blame for Rafa’s interview. I thought he just won a tournament, that is not enough?

How many poster names do you want to use? Same ole same ole lingo…and makin up sh!t cause you are blinded by Love…..haters, hatred, bitter…”rafa is the devil”….and who said the interview was horrible??????

As far as Fed fans goes…take a look at ATP and find out how many years Fed has been the Fan fav….wait….oh…that’s right….its a conspiracy.

Why would a true Fed fan be bitter….LMAO….so silly. Oh that’s right…cause Rafa did it. You mean the same way Djoker has slayed the Beast 7 times in a row? C’mon girl!

If a Fed fan is bitter after all time 16 GS titles…he/she is delusional. Ridiculous stuff.


Kimberly Says:

Lol harry


skeezeweezer Says:

What is that thing? Never seen one. In all fairness, I am sure someone can pick a lookalike animal for Fed….hehe or Djoker/Murray?


Steve 27 Says:

. Dave, I think I’ve seen you on other sports sites, and you simply say the same things over and over. Nothing new, no real insight, just “Rafa is the devil” again and again.

Your opinions, based upon parsing interviews given by someone with sketchy command of English, are childish, simplistic, and quite frankly unbecoming of someone who claims that Federer is so classy. I wonder how someone as classy as Federer is attracts so many fans

Agreed, poor vision of perspective, drowsiness by a player, repetition of views, misunderstanding of the facts, links with disinformation, there is little to say kind of fundamentalist fanatics, it is best to ignore and ignore, lest his followers condescending, kicked out all the foam by mouth.


Skeezerweezer Says:

Steve 27

And where is your facts and links to refute what your accusing of a poster? Instead of a generic accusation this and that, why don’t you show everone why Dave is so wrong? It would be only faiir since Dave goes to great lengths to back his argument with documented facts and links.


Legend Says:

LOL, the fed tards supporting each other, nothing new.
Well, Dave is a great poster who “proved” with “documents and facts” that Rafa was responsible for Federer’s loss to Roddick.

Well its impossible to refute Dave’s claim with facts and links. The only option is worship the Federer and fet tards and diss Rafa. Way to go.

Funny fed tards !!


Bella Says:

I love fed interviews the most, just because he’s so honest. He just tells it like it is. I can remember some people calling him arrogant when he said: “I’m just extremely talented” when asked how he was able to produce that between the legs shot against novak, but I just don’t see it that way. He just states the truth, thats what I love he doesn’t do fake humbleness.


Bella Says:

@legend isn’t it childish to call people fed tards? Besides I don’t think anyone besides dave said rafa was responsible for feds defeat.


Steve 27 Says:

Skeezerweezer you are fan of the swiss, that clouds you, you lack objectivity to say something, if you look closely all the columnists, journalists say the same of this or that player, there have preferences for any of them and their opinions are based on beliefs and rarely what they say are true . so it is best to ignore the fans always say the same thing, the only thing that changes is their nick, and their bases are biased concepts that do not feed the controversy but adapt it to what they think ranting the opinions of others . They are dogmatic fundamentalists, and as you know, it is impossible to talk to such people to withdraw into themselves and see nothing more than their navels. By.


Legend Says:

Bella Says:
I love fed interviews the most, just because he’s so honest.
April 24th, 2012 at 12:41 am

Federer has always been very honest when dissing others players….for example when calling Rafa as one dimensional.

But he has never been “honest” about himself.
For example has he ever said:
Nole and Rafa are better players than me.
I am a bit old now and half a step slower.
Rafa is in my head.
I won so many grandslams mainly due to homogenisation of surfaces.
I got to beat Nole in FO SF only because of the faster conditions and new balls.
etc.


Legend Says:

Bella Says:
Besides I don’t think anyone besides dave said rafa was responsible for feds defeat.

April 24th, 2012 at 12:43 am

There were a couple of other fed tards (madmax) too who blamed Rafa for that.

Dave blamed Rafa for Federer’s loss and all other fed tards worship him saying that he is an “objective” poster who always backs his claims with “facts and links”.


Bella Says:

@legend Well you always have fans who go over the top in there liking and dislinke of certain players. Your an perfect example of this. I would not call dave objective perse as he clearly dislikes rafa and likes fed, but atleast he does support his opinion, unlike you who says stupid things like:
“I won so many grandslams mainly due to homogenisation of surfaces.” He may have or may not, but I’m sure there are way more obvious players this would imply to then someone like fed, who is an allrounder and actually has a game better suited for fast.
I got to beat Nole in FO SF only because of the faster conditions ” Really ? based on previous result I would say fed is a better gravel player.

Which is based on absolutely nothing except your disdain for fed.


Skeezerweezer Says:

A Legend that never was,

“Federer has always been very honest when dissing others players….for example when calling Rafa as one dimensional.”

Uh……yeah. He is…..so?

Does he S&V? Does he chip and charge? Can he? Does he transition? The list can go on……

Look, no disrespect, but Rafa is one dimensional. Problem is, he is so damn good at it that he beats everyone with it( or maybe that is not a problem…hehe )

And I don’t call making his serve a bit faster automatically makes him multi dimensional.

Legend,

Your makin up stuff too. Post some links dudette. Where did Fed ever say that when he lost a match he was still the better man? Your other accusations are a joke and typical of your type.

Wow from a Rafa interview to Fed and Fedtards…..love the attention!!


andrea Says:

haven’t been around for the past couple of weeks, but nothing much changes here re: the posts. well, congrats to nadal for finally winning a match in almost a year. lord knows he must lie in anticipation waiting for the clay season to come around.
what is going on with soderling? still out with mono?
i’m still in shock that our hockey team has already been ousted…fu**.


Dave Says:

GiveItaRest: “They hugged and spoke at the net also.” Lol, we can see what actually happened at 1:24 in this clip below: Nadal celebrated loudly like it was a huge title, oblivious of Djokovic who played with a heavy heart. Nadal’s hug of Djokovic was nothing special or unusual for a European — in fact, Djokovic had given Nadal a bigger and tighter hug after the Australian Open. They spoke at the net, lol — can you lip read and tell us what they said that was different from what players normally say at the net?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuO-BQXJQwA

GiveItaRest: “Rafa did acknowledge what Novak was going through in a previous interview… Rafa said that he had talked to Novak and given him a hug a few days ago.” Nadal NEVER said he gave Djokovic a hug a few days ago, so you’re making it up. The only thing Nadal ever said about Djokovic’s tragedy was four days earlier on April 19, 2012, in response to a leading question from a reporter. Rafa’s initial response seemed rather dry and he then rationalized how mentally strong Djokovic was and his effort on the tennis court until he finally expressed sympathy near the end and praised Novak’s attitude. What comes out of your mouth first tends to indicate what you are thinking.
Q. “A sad day for Novak today. I don’t know if you heard about his grandfather. Do you think he was brave to play today?”
Nadal: “These are personal things. I cannot have a real opinion that because you have to be in the position. Depends how the thing happened. It depends is something you are expecting for a long time and you can imagine. But always when happen is tough, no? So I think he made a fantastic effort today. That’s mean that he is very strong mentally today. So just congratulate him for what he did this afternoon, no? I’m sorry for him. I’m sorry for his grandfather. Well, I tell him in the locker room. Is difficult to say something in this situation. Just congratulate him because his attitude was very positive.”

GiveItaRest: “someone who claims that Federer is so classy.” Give us proof — when did I ever say “Federer is classy”? You are once again making things up.

Nadal may have a sketchy command of English, but he is one of the very few players who have a full time PR manager, Beneito, who coaches him what to say. So Nadal is more media savvy than you give him credit for.

GiveItaRest, time for you to give it a rest. I’ve seen you on dozens of other sports sites, and you simply say the same childish, simplistic things over and over. Nothing new, no real insight, just “Dave is the devil” again and again. No facts to back up your claims.


andrea Says:

i mean ‘winning a title’….too much red wine.


Steve 27 Says:

legend, funny but true

recognize the superiority of others, it’s Men. But narcissism and the Ego is impossible to cure. By the way, Carl Gustav Jung was a Swiss, and unlike the player, knew how to recognize its limitations.

Psychoanalytic say in words that has a large complex that is called Rafa Nadal. That’s why he dream about being left handed, whining and complacency that prevents you admit the truth: someone is better than me. So I think we saw the real Federer, the most authentic, when it collapsed in the remembered Final in Australia. His mask of the perfect tennis since then, was finally broken. It was really a relief.


Bella Says:

@legend btw why do you dislike fed so much? What did he do to you? Did he perhaps achive greater things then your fav?


Skeezerweezer Says:

@bella,

No worries they are just trying to divert the undefensable Rafa interview, which is what this topic is suppose to be about, it always ends up this way with them…….they can’t help it. When all goes wrong…. Bring Fed into it …lets talk about how bad Fed is….its Feds fault Rafa is the way he is……..


Bella Says:

@skeezerweezer Unfortuantely you right, which is kind of sad. I never get why people waist there time on hating and ranting like an idiot.


Dave Says:

Steve 27: As I’ve proven in repeatedly debunking your lack of understaning of soccer, your massive ego drives you to make up gibberish to try to look smart. OK, time to put your money where your mouth is: give us facts and sound arguments to prove your ludicrous claims about my comments: “poor vision of perspective, drowsiness by a player, repetition of views, misunderstanding of the facts, links with disinformation…”

Drowsiness by a player, hahahahaha

Instead of giving us facts and good arguments, Steve 27 ranted like a fundamentalist fanatic, confused and without substance: Steve 27: “Skeezerweezer you are fan of the swiss, that clouds you, you lack objectivity to say something, if you look closely all the columnists, journalists say the same of this or that player, there have preferences for any of them and their opinions are based on beliefs and rarely what they say are true . so it is best to ignore the fans always say the same thing, the only thing that changes is their nick, and their bases are biased concepts that do not feed the controversy but adapt it to what they think ranting the opinions of others . They are dogmatic fundamentalists, and as you know, it is impossible to talk to such people to withdraw into themselves and see nothing more than their navels. By.”

Fundamentalists simply peddle absolutes: since skeezer is a fan of Federer, therefore he lacks objectivity and what he says is biased and not true… and skeezer is addicted to admiring his navel (hey skeezer, the girls want to know: are you an innie or outie?). Those who do not see what fundamentalists like Steve 27 sees, speak what they speak and act as they act become targets only of conversion or eradication, to serve their own fears or self-aggrandizement.


Skeezerweezer Says:

@Dave

Innie…. But Dave that is not for your knowledge, only the girls ;).


Steve 27 Says:

HAahaha young Dave, when you said: As I’ve proven in repeatedly debunking your lack of understaning of soccer, you only demonstrates narcissism and your lack of understanding with others, think you know that you know something about a sport but only gross ignorance and latent aggression.

As you mention a thousand times, but you’re stubborn and willful as a child, you point links always say what you want to believe what you say as accurate to the truth, but it is not. Exaggerate everything good for your idol and denigrate everything bad on the contrary it repeatedly wins, you only see black and white, but no gray in your little head, but it’s really boring to argue with you because you do not accept that someone is against what think and do not accept that others may have more validity than your unfortunate and biased comments. ready, young Dave, you’ve proven again that you lack empathy and tolerance. You can not go due to the other, when it does not support the statements and opinions on a blog like this. Democratically speaking, you’re a bigot.
The claim of unanimity often becomes “intolerance”, ie an attitude that seeks to reflect an attempt to understand the reasons and the rights of others, but is dominated by the arrogance and the arrogance of having the “truth” hegemonic. Just the unfinished work of democracy is to banish a set of dogmas and discrimination that not only limit the aforementioned rights of freedom, but also – which is worse – nullify the rules of democratic life.

The fight against dogmatism and fanaticism can not be terminated. Contemporary democracies must engage resolutely try to minimize expressions of intolerance, promoting a new approach based on tolerance and persuasion. The expansion of democracy also involves open-mindedness towards the different, which tends to limit and often eliminate the dogmatism and the “truths” preconceived.


Dave Says:

Legend: LOL, the fed haters keep demonstrating their inability to comprehend a simple argument, nothing new: “Well, Dave is a great poster who “proved” with “documents and facts” that Rafa was responsible for Federer’s loss to Roddick.” Duh, I did not say that Nadal’s public resignation as Player Council vice president was the only and/or primary factor that led to Federer’s loss, but it was almost certainly one of the factors that mentally distracted him before and during the match.

If you think these Player Council issues do not affect a player’s performance on court, you obviously lack experience in management jobs with responsibilities for 2,000 people. The responsibilities, issues and work activities will distract the player. For example, Ivan Ljubicic performed well in 2005 and first half of 2006. After he became Player Council president in June 2006, his performance on the ATP Tour suffered. In August 2008, after his stint as president, Ljubicic was elected European player representative on ATP Board. Just five months later he resigned from this post was because the work distracted him from focusing on tennis and he wanted to give his full attention on playing.

As Player Council president, Federer is responsible for dealing with the fallout of Nadal’s public resignation that inspired players like Stakhovsky to put their ignorant spin on what happened. We don’t realize just how much work Federer is doing as president, and the impact of Nadal’s behaviour on his work. For example, at Indian Wells, despite being sick Federer organized the Big Four players — acting as representatives of all players — to meet with representatives from the four Slams. It was a major victory just to get the Slams to meet with the players. As we heard recently, the French Open has agreed to increase prize money with the biggest percentage increases happening in the early rounds. Such things require leadership and organizing.

The London Times’ tennis correspondent Neil Harman: “Top players increase pressure on ‘majors’ to raise prize money… In a move that could have far-reaching consequences for the future pay of the world’s leading professionals, the grand-slam tournaments have met the four top-ranked players in the men’s game to discuss the revenue share at future championships, The Times has learnt. Roger Federer, the president of the ATP player council, along with Novak Djokovic, Rafael Nadal and Andy Murray, talked to representatives of the “majors” in an attempt to avert the prospect of a boycott of one of the leading events, which has become a much-discussed player tactic. The French Open delegation has become increasingly anxious that any revolt will affect its field in May. Alarmed at the levels of acrimony among the men, who are pressing for a greater share of the revenue of the grand-slam events — about 12 to 15 per cent — each of the four sent emissaries to Indian Wells, California, last week to try to reach a resolution. They were: Philip Brook, the chairman of the All England Club, in the company of Tim Henman, who is a member of the management committee; Gilbert Ysern, the French Open tournament director, with Guy Forget, who has taken over as tournament director of the Paris Masters; Gordon Smith, the USTA executive director; and Steve Wood, the chief executive of Tennis Australia, with Craig Tiley, the Australian Open tournament director.” (excerpt from the London Times, March 23) Also see Neil Harman’s “Roger Federer puts the ball in Tour’s court over better deal for players”
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/archive/index.php/t-417939.html

Nadal’s resignation and his leaking it to the media created a messy situation that must have wasted Federer’s time to deal with. After all the hard work that Federer put in to show the four Slams that the top players were united in one voice on the prize money for early round losers, here was his vice-president telling the world that the players were disunited — all because of aniother issue about two year ranking issue that was Nadal’s main interest. Nadal’s selfish motives could have easily derailed the prize money issue.


Dave Says:

Bella: “dave said rafa was responsible for feds defeat.” Read my post to Legend. It’s simplistic to think that a defeat occurs because of one factor (several fators are usually at play).

Bella: “I would not call dave objective perse as he clearly dislikes rafa and likes fed”. First, the dangerous presumption in your comment is that you feel you are in a position to decide whether or not someone is objective or lacks objectivity. Second, if I “clearly disliked” Nadal, why did I support him on the blue clay issue… or say that Djokovic would probably gain a greater unfair performance advantage with his CVAC machine than Nadakl woud with his injections? Just because my understanding of the issues and facts leads me to certain conclusions does not necessary mean I like or dislike a player. I can’t help it if you don’t understand the isssues at the level I do. For example, just because I debunked with facts your argument “you really can’t call messi the best ever… (until he has) peformed well with argentina” does not mean I like Messi. What I said is consistent with the majority of great players and coaches.


Dave Says:

Steve 27: Young Steve, you need to focus your gaze on skeezer’s navel. Eventually you might achieve the first step to enlightenment. As I’ve shown in our soccer debates (see link), I’ve provided sound rational arguments backed by facts, logic and intelligence that leave you overwhelmed. Instead of addressing my arguments with sound counter-arguments, you retort with childish attacks on posters and confused bluster. I waited for a single intelligent argument from you, but alas you have proven incapable. What you lash out at other posters is what you are most guilty of.
http://www.tennis-x.com/xblog/2012-04-10/9291.php#comment-265501


Bella Says:

@Dave I didn’t really meant to start an argument with you as I have seen from you previous debates that it would most likely go on and on and I just don’t feel like spending that much time to it. On top of that it would be kinda pointless as it seems that sometimes you believe that their is only one truth and that is your view. Take the messi debate for example. Yes there are players and coaches that say he is the best ever. But the majority? I don’t know an neither do you, even though you claim they are of that opinion. But correct me if I’m wrong I don’t believe there has ever been held a poll or something like that to see if the majority feels like you claim they feel. I’m sure plenty still think maradonna holds the crown. But whatever think whatever you wanna think as long as that makes you happy.


Steve 27 Says:

Young persons like Dave, they should admit that no one but several truths in life, the road to reach the truth is thorny but rewarding.
Here is an article for you and now, goodbye.

Democracy and the intolerant

While the supposed tolerance is an essential factor for democracy: can not be expected in a democratic regime in the absence of tolerance, as it is not possible that this occurs without a minimum margin of democratic, inclusive and mutually a prerequisite for the other. The tolerant spirit of a society, regularly accompanies a democratic regime understood its meaning beyond political science, but rather defined as the Mexican Constitution, in Article Three: democracy as a “way of life.”

Educating for tolerance is to educate for a life-oriented desire for democracy, in which differences between individuals are not grounds for discrimination, bigotry, violence, segregation and harassment. So-called “democratic values”, tolerance is perhaps the most and which represents more irreplaceably paid to its development and consolidation if we understand that the main task of democracy is precisely to extend and deepen what liberals Mexicans called the “moral improvement of the people” and that there is nothing that overcoming prejudice, bigotry, ignorance and all the remnant authoritarian block (back to the third article, when he mentions that education “… fight against ignorance and its effects, servitudes, fanaticism and prejudice “).

Intolerance is the main sign of moral backwardness. Taken to the extreme reaches of violent overtones intransigence especially when based on the dogmas, ideologies or doctrines of any kind, in a speech that usually appeals to moral orthodoxy, political or traditional. Incites fear, promotes the privileges, breeds apathy and disdain for the other, clouds the mind, justifies the violence and, finally, turns against its own exegetes, who regularly accused of not being consistent enough to then subjecting them to massive purges or any other mechanism of censorship and repression.

Almost anything is grounds enough to implement the tools of intolerance (some subtle, others openly aggressive) sexual preferences, the ideological, religious beliefs, race, differing opinions, and so on. This bigots resort to a cunning ploy supposedly democratic studied argue with falsehood: they argue represent the majority, and that only statistical calculation-even granting that it were true – it is enough to assume possession of the truth and the right to overcome to the “few”, the “less”, the “different”, the “strangers”.

It is somewhat paradoxical and somewhat disconcerting that the intolerant, for their purposes, protect them in democratic tolerance (as opposed to the flat one that quantitative criterion to appeal to majority, preserves and guarantees the right of minorities to dissent , to be, to speak). Indeed, tolerance and respect must consider including the intolerant, just as democracy recognizes the rights even of those who undermine it, but that does not prevent denounce and warn the public of its pernicious work: it is likely that Agnes Torres, transgender activist killed last weekend, has suffered first hand the cruelty and the fear of those intolerant, believing safeguard the “decency” and “morality” have no qualms about resorting to reprehensible acts of hatred and of violence.


Ajet Says:

came to relax here after reading, but political science lectures going on here!
gotta flee, LOL. ;)

however, i gotta say: it was damn funny to see Legend wanting fed to say that djoker/nadal are better than him. nadal/djoker better than fed??? and fed should himself even say that??? LOL! ;)

this made my day! ;)


Mark Says:

@ Dave. Your exhaustive posts have truly exhausted me. Just want to say that if u followed Twitter Rafa DID say that he gave Djoker a hug. Keep up.


Kathy Says:

Dave said, “No acknowledgement from Nadal of Djokovic’s tragedy. As Tennis Magazine’s Richard Pagliaro noted of the Djokovic-Nadal match: “Still coping with the loss of his beloved grandfather, Vladimir, who died hours before his third-round comeback win over Alexandr Dolgopolov, an emotionally-depleted Djokovic struggled to find his range and never looked fully emotionally engaged in the second set.”

How many times does it have to be acknowledged? Rafa answered a question about Djokovic’s personal tragedy.

“A sad day for Novak today. I don’t know if you heard about his grandfather. Do you think he was brave to play today?”
RAFAEL NADAL: “These are personal things. I cannot have a real opinion that because you have to be in the position. Depends how the thing happened. It depends is something you are expecting for a long time and you can imagine.
But always when happen is tough, no? So I think he made a fantastic effort today. That’s mean that he is very strong mentally today. So just congratulate him for what he did this afternoon, no?
I’m sorry for him. I’m sorry for his grandfather. Well, I tell him in the locker room. Is difficult to say something in this situation. Just congratulate him because his attitude was very positive.”

Djokovic chose to play, he could have withdrawn at any point. He and his brothers could have chosen to attend their grandfather’s funeral, but they didn’t. Djokovic expexted to win the final. This is what he said to the |Serbian press after his semi-final win.

“Svestan sam da je Nadal u prednosti što se tiče terena. Takođe on ima seriju od 40 pobeda. On jeste najbolji igrač na šljaci, ali ja znam kako ću da igram protiv njega. Nadal je poslednja prepreka na putu do trofeja Monte Karla i ja verujem u pobedu” – izjavio je Novak Đoković pred finale sa Nadalom.

Which translates like this,
“I know that Nadal has the advantage in terms of terrain. Also on a series of 40 victories. He is the best player on clay, but I know how I’m going to play against him. Nadal is the last obstacle on the way to Monte Carlo trophy and I I believe in victory ”

Djokovic managed to beat Dolgopolov and an inform Berdych when his emotions were much more exposed. He beat Berdych on the day of his Grandfather’s funeral.
Djokovic was stunned in the final, rather than emotionally depleted. He played well to start, but the turning point came when Nadal hit a backhand passing shot down the line. He had thought he was in for an easy victory, at that point he realized that it wasn’t going to happen and so the Djokovic that we have seen many times before, surfaced. i.e in his loss against Nishikori.


Mark Says:

@Kathy. Great post. The Rafa haters will always find an excuse to demean him. ENVY – such a tragic word but that is the word I would use to describe them. VAMOS RAFAAAA!!


Wog boy Says:

Kathy,

What did you expect him to say, “I don’t believe in victory”?

The last part of your comment speaks about your agenda and yourself knowing all comebacks and matches that Novak produced in the last 18 months, that all fair posters, regadless of the club colours, acknowledged.
Considering that you are quite familiar with Serbian language and you are more than likely speaking one as a mother tongue just on the other side of fence I can tell you this:

“Lupas kao otvoren prozor”

P.S. For the other posters, it is not a swear word.


Mark Says:

@Wog Boy. This is an English speaking forum. Pls do us the courtesy of speaking English and not some foreign mumbo jumbo. Thnx.


Wog boy Says:

Mark,

Do you have a problem?


Mark Says:

@ Wog Boy. Yup big problem. Don’t speak or understand Serbian!!!


Wog boy Says:

Mark,

First, I wasn’t talking to you!

Second, it is not nice to call the other people languages mumbo jumbo, learn to respect other languages and other cultures.
Are you of Anglo-Saxon backround? I don’t think so, and in that case you are insulting your parents and grandparents.

Third, “Vamos” is not English!

Fourth, “Sedi u cosak i prestani da dises klosaru, ucinices uslugu covecanstvu”!


Senthil Says:

Djokovic’ Grand father must have loved him so much – Died to give a reason for loss to nadal. It is a mental Game.


Skeezerweezer Says:

Mark,

“@ Wog Boy. Yup big problem. Don’t speak or understand Serbian!!!”

Put the word “Spanish” in the place of “Serbian”.

Still have a problem?


Skeezerweezer Says:

nadalista,

Thanks for the link. Another Bodo classic. :)


jane Says:

Yes, that is a good article nadalista. Thank you for the link.


Daniel Says:

PELE is the greates soccer player of all time. Please, Maradonna don’t come even close, neither Messi. He may surpass, but not with what he is acomplished now. I am Brazilian, so I am not biaside:)


nadalista Says:

You’re welcome people…………

As a dyed in the wool “Nadal partisan” I have had Bodo in my Rafa-hater column for quite some time now………..

Felt quite sheepish after reading this latest piece of his……..if he keeps this up I may have to remove him from that list!


Mark Says:

@skeez. Yup still big problem. You r angling to discover my nationality . You asked me previously. Nosey old chap aren’t you??


jane Says:

I have been ruminating over Nadal’s “slim shady” quotes (real Rafa, real Nole…real Madrid? ;)) and Bodo’s echoing of those Rafa words here:

“But this surprising result raises the question, which is the real Nole? Is it the fun-loving impersonator and dancin’ fool who finds inspiration only in fits and starts? The terminator we beheld in 2011? Or has he moved on beyond both those identities, recalibrating his competitive compass to put him on a course where he hits all the peak moments in his best form and doesn’t really sweat the small stuff? I’m inclined to think the answer is the latter”

We often say so-and-so can’t beat so-and-so at his best, etc. And perhaps that is true. But Rafa raises an interesting point, which is that whatever the form a player is in that particular day, on that surface, in that particular match, etc, is still *that player,* “really.” Of course there are sometimes extenuating surfaces in a loss (health, conditions, etc) but the result stays the same, and it is what matters. It’s also quite difficult to actually “calibrate” what someone’s “best” is. I mean we can see it definitively sometimes but I think it’s not often this obvious (for e.g., Rafa at RG 2008, Fed at Wimbledon 2006, Nole at AO 2011). However, most of the time, someone’s “best” only comes in fits and starts, in some matches not others.

On top of that, someone’s “best” can change! After all, life IS change. What was someone’s best in 2009 may not be his/her best in 2011. Players can improve – or they can worsen. That’s why Rafa’s right when he says in losses or wins, that’s the “real Rafa” or the “real Nole.”

We can rationalize losses, we can be hypothetical too (oh but if so-and-so was playing his best, the other guy would’ve lost, etc) but *the bottom line is what’s REAL.* What REALLY happened. Reality is what remains at the end of the day. What I mean is that it’s reality that shows up on those record books and history pages I’ve been looking at in the past 24 hours. All the other stuff flies out the window, including asterisks. I didn’t see any on those pages.

Rafa has won Monte Carlo 8 times, and he beat the world number 1 soundly. Nole has won the only slam this year as well as a Masters. Fed has won a Masters and a couple of other events. Muzza won Brisbane and reached finals at Dubai and Miami. That’s it.

As Bodo says, ” This was the 18th time in the past 19 Masters tournaments (and the 12th straight) that the winner was one of the Big Four who occupy the top of the ATP rankings, so it’s a safe bet that we’ll be seeing more of these two characters in the coming weeks. And that “contender gap” appears to be widening.”

The gap between the top four players is narrow in the sense that they are always there, “contending.” They have good days and bad days, but for the most part, their consistency is astonishing.

They are the REAL thing. ^_^


jane Says:

“extenuating surfaces” – Freudian slip. I meant “extenuating circumstances” of course, lol. Although there may be “extenuating surfaces” but that’s another topic. ;)


Skeezerweezer Says:

jane,

Been preaching to the choir your 5th paragraph, but fans for there fav most often cover there ears. All in all a very well thought out post. You can really put it out there when you want to.

The REAL thing ;)


Skeezerweezer Says:

nadalista,

Nice to know you are a little open minded ;)


Dave Says:

Steve 27: I think it is time to stop gazing at skeezer’s navel. I was hoping you’d be enlightened. But your gibberish is definitely not good for democracy. Go find Prof Sheldon Wholin’s articles “Inverted Totalitarianism” and “A Kind of Fascism Is Replacing Our Democracy”. Even you might be terrified.

Mark: Duh, you need to comprehend what you read. GiveItaRest referred to Nadal’s “previous interview”, nothing about Twitter. Twitter is for Rafanatics like you to follow and keep up with. Did Nadal say he hugged Djokovic because of the tragedy… or because of Djoovic’s victory? The rest of us read what he says in his media interviews and see how much effort he puts in his victory celebrations compared to his hugs. If I had beaten someone who suffered a personal tragedy yet stayed around till the final, I’d have muted my victory celebrations.

Kathy: Don’t cherry pick my comments and take it out of context (see link). Clearly I was referring to Nadal’s interview on Sunday April 22 after his victory over Djokovic (I even fully quoted the relevant question and answer that gave Nadal an opportunity to acknowledge Djokovic’s tragedy in the contex of that current question). Furthermore, I had already posted and analyzed the full quote of what Nadal had said four days earlier on April 19, which you probably cut and pasted into your post. Regardlessof what he said four days earlier, Nadal had an opportunity to acknowledge he did not beat “(today’s) Djokovic wasn’t the real best Djokovic” probably still affected by the tragedy, but instead Nadal’s selfish concern was to emphasize that he had a valid victory over the real Djokovic. For a player who is adept at reminding the world — whenever he loses — that he is injured, this shows Nadal’s character which I find rather selfish, cold and calculating.
http://www.tennis-x.com/xblog/2012-04-23/9392.php#comment-265417

And it seems your attitude about Djokovic fits ritght in with Nadal’s. Don’t cherry pick a few statements Djokovic made to the Serbian press while leaving out other comments. And let’s not forget that Djokovic previously had a 8-1 winning record over Berdych and a straight sets win over Dolgopolov, yet lost two first sets to both.


Dave Says:

Bella: stop passing judgments on others based on your personal opinions that are unsubstantiated by any evidence. You’re no neutral arbiter on the truth. You’re just another countless person who believes his/her unverified opinions are the truth yet are quick to excuse yourself from any debate intended to verify whether or not what you say is valid. For example, take your opinion “I’m sure plenty still think maradonna holds the crown”: Really, Maradona hold the crown? Before the Messi era, a general consensus of expert and media polls ranked Pele as the greatest footballer of all time, not Maradona. Unlike you, I provide evidence (unless you have counter evidence better than this, your opinion means little). For example: the great and thoughtful Franz Beckenbauer: “Pele is the greatest player of all time. He reigned supreme for 20 years. All the others – Diego Maradona, Johan Cruyff, Michel Platini – rank beneath him. There’s no one to compare with Pele.”
http://www.rsssf.com/miscellaneous/bestbest.html


nadalista Says:

Skeezerweezer Says:
nadalista,

Nice to know you are a little open minded ;)

……….nobody’s perfect!! It’s the true, no?


Skeezerweezer Says:

^ yes…lol…got that,

And may I add always difficult and almost impossible ;)


Skeezerweezer Says:

Dave,

Please leave my navel out of it already, I’m starting to feel violated. Oh my…..


Bella Says:

@Dave the funny thing is that your critizicing me of passing judgement yet you do the exact same. I never believed my opinion is the truth as it’s an OPINION. Opinions are higlhy subjective. Something you don’t seem to get. You say you back everything up with evidence, then fine give me the evidence (and not just some quotes) that the majority of experts and players call messi the best of all time.


Humble Rafa Says:

No acknowledgement from Nadal of Djokovic’s tragedy.

How am I supposed to acknowledge? Give him 2 games every set to acknowledge the loss?

My parents got divorced, my body is broken in many places, Xisca fights before the match. Do I expect others to acknowledge that? No, I bring it up myself and discuss all the relevant particulars. May be the Egg Lover should do the same.


Dave Says:

Bella: what’s even funnier is that it was you who first started passing judgment on me, yet you are defensive when judgment is passed on you for passing judgment, lol. When you pass judgments on others and you claim that opinions are subjective, what you don’t seem to get is that — in order draw such conclusions — you have assumed the role of self-righteous arbiter on the truth. This you are not. Stop wasting our time. And stop passing judgment — otherwise expect judgment to be passed on you.

And you need to improve your comprehension before you continue pontificating: I did not say what you claim I said: “the majority of experts and players call messi the best of all time.”

What I actually said was: “just because I debunked with facts your argument ‘you really can’t call messi the best ever… (until he has) peformed well with argentina’ does not mean I like Messi. What I said is consistent with the majority of great players and coaches.”

And the evidence about polls on Pele and Maradona was in the link I had given in my previous post (reproduced below). The Beckenbauer quote was not the evidence of the polls.
http://www.rsssf.com/miscellaneous/bestbest.html

***

Skeezerweezer: lol, I think I might have inadvertently influenced steve to obsess about your belly. That’s worse than a violation.


Oleg Says:

Ah Dave, I see you’re still busy trolling the boards and “enlightening” us with your brilliant logical analysis!

Funny how all that “analysis” always leads to two conclusions:
- Federer is the nicest, most likeable, and most talented human being that has ever lived.
- Nadal is the devil incarnate (selfish, cold and calculating etc etc).

We get it. You love Roger. I hope you get to meet him someday, and it can be the highlight of your life. Just stop all the BS pretending that you are objective and being logical. I’m sure Günter Parche thought he was being rational when he stabbed Monica Seles.


Dave Says:

Humble Rafa: No you did not bring it up yourself and discuss all the relevant particulars on “Xisca fights before the match”. Stop exaggerating. If you did, Egg Lover would have hugged you tighter than he did even at Australian Open. And, had he won the match, he would keep his celebrations quiet and not rip off his t-shirt as well as acknowledge in the interview about your distraction from fighting Xisca. He would also have given you advice on how to make up with Xisca.


Dave Says:

Oleg, I see you are still furious that — after your first communication with me was to irrationally attack me as “delusional” and “deranged” — I debunked your comments and put you in your place. As Rave said: “Oleg, so why are you getting so mad when others express their opinion that does not agree with yours?” It’s clear you think too much about your irrational opinions, and in the end I proved Stakhovsky was just another a-hole, as evidenced by his snarky reply on twitter to Tom Gainey. I think you see Günter Parche in the mirror, don’t you?
http://www.tennis-x.com/xblog/2012-04-10/9291.php


Steve 27 Says:

Young Dave, it seems that still does not understand, what I try to explain without any desire to boast, but it looks like another opinion seems to bother him and out of proportion. I see you not bear to be replicated and answer all trying to impose on what you, mistakenly, as I said, youth is a hurricane that does not see the whole dimension of things, believes intuition is always right . Humbly I say, make an effort tolerance and try to open your mind a bit, you will do well and you will make a person more sensitive to the opinions of others.
In closing, I leave another article where I would reflect on what I am saying and not close to a single view of things, in other words, the narcissism of the ego, which you inadvertently falls again and again.
Well I leave it to think a little:

The dogmatists AND DOGMA
THE DOGMA AND DOGMATIC

Dogma is the expression of thought that wants to impose an intellectual interpretation and raise the level of absolute and unquestionable truth. Dogmatic are those who are possessed of a fearful mind, which adopts the dogma to have a bra that often make a crutch to lean intellectually and psychologically to avoid fear. The dogmas are found in almost all systems of thought: religious, political, philosophical, social, scientific, and both modern mental fallacies, who hold the record of intellectual speculation, psychology and economics.
All intellectual speculation and interpretation of a fact, that postulates how truth is a lie. It is based on dogma. Make a fact or a personal experience, intellectual interpretation and try to turn this analysis speculative truth, is the dogma itself is dogmatically correct.
Dogma is insurmountable, only the dogmatist can be saved. As the tradition established dogma, propaganda and culture of the society through versions of visual, auditory and written, which make up the communication and education, dogma becomes obsessive inevitable publicity seeing, hearing or read, which means the influence and constant subjection of mind to the truths revealed or interpreted.
Everything is basically a fundamentalist dogmatic in terms of, minimally, psychological and intellectual, which exposes the mind of dogmatic to be potentially a being who is predisposed to kill or die for their cause. So yes politics, religion and every expression of thought, has not been dedicated to expanding its dogmas, does not exist fundamentalist is not it, that is, terrorists, guerrillas, nationalist, patriotic, religious, spiritualist, economists, political , scientistic or psychologists who propagandize their intellectual speculations and deductions in order that those who accept them, bring it into their sect, knowing the true owner [?].
The petrified dogma and crystallizes the mind in a fixed point of view, schematic, static, dead, immovable, which only allows the evolution of the mind through the extension of the same arguments to justify the more certain the truth of the dogma. In other words, the mind evolves into a vicious circle based on the true purpose of making their own lies.
When the mind perceives the lie as a lie, it is clear that it is possible to accept the lie as truth, so that the false acceptance will be the effort and the work of the mind to show with new arguments, analysis and interpretation that this is true. This is the task of the mind slave to the vicious cycle, treat, in what is believed, will become true.
The desire to be true, what they believe, is what strengthens the criterion gives the dogma of absolute truth, which means that this is the stone that man has to lay his head, being that desire for truth which should be protected, sheltered, and nothing can beat as many arguments, analysis and justification, so that the structure and mindset that allows for the dogma, not be destroyed in any way; the danger that this means for the mind-pink fears she can not live in freedom.
The dogma that contains all doctrine, belief, ideology, is the stone which supports the fearful mind of man to escape the madness that feels to have when your mind is how the Son of Man, which has no stone to lay his head mind is, no doctrine, belief, ideology, theory, any argument to support their intellectual freedom, psychological, emotional, sentimental, ultimately, the freedom of his mind. Obviously this makes it a poor spirit.
The dogma adopted makes anyone who accepts a millionaire illustrated in possession of intellectual wealth, a man belonging to the status-quo culture, that is, makes it a superior man belonging to the class of brain-scholars. Only that for reasons unknown to the poor of spirit are the owners of the kingdom of heaven, or that face this dilemma the dogmatist has two options, or believe in their theological or ideologues believe in Jesus Christ … Right?.
The dogmatic advocates do not know what that is and how he thinks, or defends his doubt and raises the level of truth, which means that the only truth that has to defend the fanatic, fundamentalist, dogmatic, which has indoctrinated mind is your question. This makes it necessary to put all their trust in such doubt ever really materialize, so all you have how real is the hope and self-conviction, self-conviction which has the task of trying to conquer and subdue the doubt to confirm psychologically in a state of truth. Doubt is necessary to elevate the level of truth, and this is only possible by dogma.
The dogma is the intellectual expression that shapes psychological truth breaking in doubt. When the psychological background is satisfied by the intellectual interpretation is when there is the self-conviction that doubt is true, and at that point is where dogma is crystallized in the mind, with the resulting posterior fanaticism and the vicious cycle of thinking .
When the class raises their dogmatic doubt, is also when unwittingly seals his mind, with intelligence and understanding the first expelled from home, so the thought creates psychological interests, intellectual, emotional, material, around the truth dogmatic, opening the mind only to intellectual understanding that is relevant to the accepted dogma as truth.
Fear is the engine that drives the mind to identify with the dogma, in order to escape the insecurity, and find in that particular thought system security that will sustain the sense of a psychological nature that gives the feeling when belong to something. The dogmatic feeling that something belongs to cling to his new condition and evidently convinced that you should protect it, protect it. This gives rise to the violence that is exercised through advocacy.
Man accepts the dogma of fear, that is, in order to escape insecurity and dip ends to hide the fear in the depths of his conscience. In the outermost layers of the mind is present the appearance of security, which is the image that sells security-minded man dogmatized. This appearance is one that encourages the mind to love the dogma, as the shaper of a sense of order in thinking.
The dogmatic is this sense of order in thinking when it adopts one of the many individuals and groups dogmas that are on offer in the marketplace of ideas offered by society: political, religious, scientistic, economic, psychological, social. The need to give some order and guidance to the mental obsession, working quietly through the incessant chatter of the mind, which is similar to madness, is the main motivation to predispose to the adoption of any dogma that meets the anxiety psychological and the imperative to halt the irrationality of the internal conflict that creates chatter.
The danger of dogma is that when achieved brainwash any vestige of doubt and produce the psychological security that the dogmatist is right, that he possesses the truth. From there, the mind is immersed in the disposition and such disposition is what produces pleasure in the opportunity offered by thinking may be deposited in one obsessive idea. When you close the mind to a unique perspective, sectarian, dogmatic is accepting the evolution of violence as normal and necessary. Normal so it must be defended and necessary because it deserves to be protected can not disappear, so that the application of violence is justified by the goal always justifies the means. The violence is the reaction to the defense of a particular dogma or collective, whether for the defense of particular dogma wounded ego-defense, or doctrine, belief, dogma collective-country-and that end justifies everything and any means sectarian and violent. This is the dogma in action, this is the pleasurable danger of dogma, this is the end product of dogma.
The mind to interrelate the intellect with dogmatic thinking, it becomes inherently violent expression under external or internal, being slave to the ideological trench, commanded the defense of truth. This constant state of defense of truth is what draws the mind to the marginality of alienating alignment, with the resulting state of paranoia he sees as an enemy anyone who does not accept its postulates how truly unique and exclusive, so that Violence becomes a tool as useful as the argument, and that violence is the inevitable response that causes the necessity defense should be turned into a lie truth.
The dogma has the possibility of freedom from dogma, but dogma does not have the quality of being able to teach man to be free. When the dogma speaks of freedom, in reality this subject the mind to the slavery of the lie which is all verbalístico concept, since the word freedom is not freedom, as the word is not the thing itself.
The ideal of freedom contains both obscurantist dogmatism how dictatorial and despotic ideals, because every ideal, doctrine, theory, a system of thought based on the belief, and what one believes is not but mere creations of thought, intellect, ie dogmas.
The ideologies that underpin how principles of equality, justice, brotherhood, freedom, love, goodness and virtues to cultivate and goals to conquer, expressed ignorance of their ideologues to the misunderstanding that have to understand that everything that is virtue can not be cultivated, trained, idealized as everything is idealized concept dogma and belief, not fact, precisely the virtue is a reality outside of any intellectual verbalization.
The ideology of brotherhood, love, freedom, equality, fraternity is not, love, freedom, equality, is simply the unconsciousness of the ideologues of what it is. And it is the misunderstanding of what it takes to become dogma ideologues anything that is outside the orbit of thought, what the mind can not catch.
The intellect, thought, consciousness, memory, or mind, has the ability to turn into dogma whatever she wishes, intends or considers to be translated into the speaking intellectual, so that when the intellect structure certain virtues in doctrines, it is obvious that corrupts these virtues to turn them into idealizations dogmatic, which is corruption because every virtue untouchable by thought.
The mind corrupts virtues and purest values ​​in life by turning them into ideological dogmas that can be designed, analyzed, interpreted according to the particular point of view of each, and it is clear that no virtue can be interpreted by the thought because it is what it is, therefore, lies outside the sphere of thought and what the mind can catch, capture, save and record, and that none of it is a memory. Virtue is a living substance, which has the quality of action over words, which means it is a fact rather than an idea, so that their idealization is the destruction of virtue, how made, and this is the perversion of doctrinal dogma.
It is obvious that every mind is indoctrinated dogmatic, superstitious, crazy, sectarian, alienated, or isolated in its own ideological system of thought, that is, in its absolute truth, or belief in its miraculous, that is, in its absolute certainty, that is, is a mind that guarantees the misery of violence and the resulting power.


Dave Says:

Steve 27, here this video might help cure you of your dogmatic afflictions. If not, heaven help us.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QULE0x3wy8


Oleg Says:

Dave, when you look in the mirror you probably see Roger Federer. That’s because you’ve got a poster of him taped there.

You haven’t debunked squat. The only people you’ve convinced are the ones you’ve created to post under different names. That still adds up to one, by the way (in case your math is as good as your logic).

Keep on trolling buddy.


Bella Says:

@Dave When did I ever assume myself as the self righteous arbiter of the thruth? When I said that I didn’t consider you objective? or when I didn’t agree with you that messi is the best? I’m sorry but if there is someone who tries to make every opinion of his appear as the sole truth it’s you. You represent almost everything you say as facts while they are actually just your opinion or interpretetions on certain things or just opinion of other people. At the end of the day it are still just opinions and people will have different one which is okay.


Steve 27 Says:

españolinglésfrancésAlpha
Finally a little humor about you people who want to believe that their truth is the only valid:

The problem is that the English, being an island, have a continental perspective.

The point of view not only depends on the position where you are physically, but mentally in the situation that you have. A person abandoned.

The monologue was invented one that did not allow other points of view. A supporting actor.

They say that religion is the opium of the people, then football must be the “ecstasy”.

The history books are the point of view about what happened a few.

The Spanish do not have views on things. Only indisputable opinions.

The best age is that we are experiencing now.

No one can say that we know or only have one point of view of us, and it’s yours.

The Eskimo first saw a fridge thought the white family lived in very close

My best picture is in the eyes of someone who loves me.

For a homosexual, heterosexuals are those of the street

If the employer and the workers had the same view of what the unions would live?

Hunger does change many views. (An African)

They say that the face is the mirror of the soul, then the makeup was invented by the hypocrites.

The happiness of others upset when our point of view she is unhappy.

Grow as people admitting that nobody has the absolute truth of things and that the relative becomes a constant in life when you trespass that spring is youth, giving way to that peace that is maturity.


Dave Says:

Oleg, having a poster of Federer ON a mirror is safer than seeing Günter Parche IN the mirror whenever you look at a mirror, lol.

What’s ludicrous is your delusional claim that I am a Transformer who morphed into over a dozen different posters whose views were different from your flawed views. It’s ok, you can call me Optimus Prime if you really want.

On the other hand, you sound exactly like the irrational poster “queen” who ranted expletives that should have resulted in an immediate ban.

Bottom line, I proved that the Ukranian Stakhovsky is a rich a-hole… and that many of his comments fail the test of scrutiny and facts especially when applied to him. And Federer proved that his way in dealing with prize money issues was better than Stakhovsky’s way.

You never did admit whether you are a Ukranian or Russian.


Dave Says:

Steve 27, obviously you need more help, so try this next… and stop thinking and talking with yourself… you are feeling calm, calm, calm…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2yN_fbaoq0


Dave Says:

Bella: And here you are once again proving your tendency to act as the self righteous arbiter of the truth and passing judgment on others: “@Dave When did I ever assume myself as the self righteous arbiter of the thruth?…if there is someone who tries to make every opinion of his appear as the sole truth it’s you. You represent almost everything you say as facts while they are actually just your opinion or interpretetions on certain things or just opinion of other people.”

What I said before still applies to you: First, the dangerous presumption in your comment is that you feel you are in a position to decide whether or not someone is objective or lacks objectivity. Second, if I “clearly disliked” Nadal, why did I support him on the blue clay issue… or say that Djokovic would probably gain a greater unfair performance advantage with his CVAC machine than Nadakl woud with his injections? Just because my understanding of the issues and facts leads me to certain conclusions does not necessary mean I like or dislike a player. I can’t help it if you don’t understand the isssues at the level I do.


Oleg Says:

Dave, it’s not too difficult to see that you’ve used other names to post under in different posts. You could’ve at least had the courtesy to vary your sentence structure and vocabulary when doing that.

Again you’ve never “proved” anything since all you do is take people’s comments and interpret them in a way that fits your arguments.

It’s hard for people to take you seriously when you keep coming to the same conclusions. The only way you could be more obvious is by having an RF tattoo on your face a la Mike Tyson.

p.s: I’m neither Russian nor Ukrainian which is another example of how you foolishly jump to conclusions, probably after searching for “Oleg” on Google. Oleg is short for “Ole Gunnar”, my favorite football player.


Steve 27 Says:

Oleg did you know Ukraine?


Bella Says:

Dave, Well I guess you would be the best to know when someone acts selfrighteous or is passing judgments on others, considering you do that all they on this site to other poster or tennis players.
Just like you interpret certain actions/comments from players (mainly nadal) certain ways I interpret your comments a certain way (anti-nadal far from objective even though you believe you are). You don’t have to agree with how I vies your comments just like I don’t have to agree on alot of your views doesn’t mean we can’t make them.
“I can’t help it if you don’t understand the isssues at the level I do.” Really? Get off you high hoarse.


Oleg Says:

I know about Ukraine, I can place it on a map and have knowledge of a few random events about it (post world-war2 history, Chernobyl incident etc).

That’s about it, I haven’t been over there and I wouldn’t consider myself knowledgeable about the country.


Dave Says:

Oleg: It is hilarious — given the substandard level of your writing and comprehesion — that you delusionally believe you have the skills to analyze syntax and vocabulary: “Dave, it’s not too difficult to see that you’ve used other names to post under in different posts. You could’ve at least had the courtesy to vary your sentence structure and vocabulary when doing that.” Your ego drives you to think too much of your abilities, and clearly your comment is an absurdity. Like other posters suggested, your arrogance drives you to anger when your opinion is contradicted by what other posters say. You have failed to counter what I said with facts and sound arguments, while I debunked those claims of yours that I read.

Blogs like these are full of over-sized egos eager to pontificate but who don’t practice what they preach. You are just another example.

If people did not take me seriously, they would not be religious reading everything I posted.

You gave another example of how you foolishly concluded that what I said was “another example of how you foolishly jump to conclusions”. Duh, in the other blog on Stakhovsky, I never jumped to conclusions. I asked you a question whether you were Russian nor Ukrainianin in a context: “Oleg, given your name, are you Ukranian or Russian? Can’t you read simple English? Can’t you stop your disinformation? Your claim is delusional as I never said Stakhovsky wants to kick Roger out as Players Council president.”

Betre å vite litt for mykje enn altfor lite.


Dave Says:

Bella: Put your money where your big mouth is, and answer these questions: Who posted to whom first? Who self-righteously passed judgment on whom first? You did. Don’t pretend to be the hurt part cuz you can’t take what you give others.

If you disliked my interpretation of Nadal’s actions/comments (others say I dislike Stakhovsky or Djokovic or whoever…), then have the courtesy of challenging me on what I commented instead of whining about it now.

And it is high horse, not “high hoarse”. You haven’t shown us that you have any deep understanding of the issues, other than spewing one superficial dubious opinion after another


Oleg Says:

“Blogs like these are full of over-sized egos eager to pontificate but who don’t practice what they preach.”

Dave that’s the best thing you’ve ever said on this board. That’s like the pot calling the kettle black.

“And it is high horse, not “high hoarse”.”

And really? you’re going to stoop down to correcting other people’s spelling/typos? (by the way let’s casually mention your spelling of “Ukrainianin”). Now that’s the true sign of a troll.


Bella Says:

Dave you do realize right that you posted to me first? The things is that the oh so briliant you doesn’t get is that I don’t really have a problem with the stuff you say about nadal, do I agree with it no, but I also don’t really care. This whole situation started because you couldn’t stand someone being of the opinion that your not that objectice and dislike nadal. Thats how it all started. You made a big deal out of absolutely nothing, what the hell do you care what I think about your comments. There’s no need to be so uber sensetive. But then again someone with your ego probably needs to hear how wonderfull he is to feel happy. So here it goes.

You right. Your the smartest and most objective person I have ever come across with. Everything you say is true and if someone has another opinion thats just because they aren’t on your high level. Happy now? Good then it’s all settled and I can continue with my life and you can continue educating all us idiots.


Legend Says:

Dave,

You are delusional. You want proof ?

Read below…

Delusional disorder is an uncommon psychiatric condition in which patients present with circumscribed symptoms of non-bizarre delusions, but with the absence of prominent hallucinations and no thought disorder, mood disorder, or significant flattening of affect.[1] For the diagnosis to be made, auditory and visual hallucinations cannot be prominent, though olfactory or tactile hallucinations related to the content of the delusion may be present.[2]

To be diagnosed with delusional disorder, the delusion or delusions cannot be due to the effects of a drug, medication, or general medical condition, and delusional disorder cannot be diagnosed in an individual previously diagnosed with schizophrenia. A person with delusional disorder may be high functioning in daily life as this disorder bears no relation to one’s IQ[3], and may not exhibit odd or bizarre behavior aside from these delusion. According to German psychiatrist, Emil Kraepelin, patients with Delusional Disorder, remain coherent, sensible and reasonable[4]. The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) defines six subtypes of the disorder characterized as erotomanic (believes that someone is in love with him/her), grandiose (believes that he/she is the greatest, strongest, fastest, richest, and/or most intelligent person ever), jealous (believes that the love partner is cheating on him/her), persecutory (believes that someone is following him/her to do some harm in some way), somatic (believes that he/she has a disease or medical condition), and mixed, i.e., having features of more than one subtypes.[2] Delusions also occur as symptoms of many other mental disorders, especially the other psychotic disorders.

The DSM-IV, and psychologists, generally agree that personal beliefs should be evaluated with great respect to complexity of cultural and religious differences since some cultures have widely accepted beliefs that may be considered delusional in other cultures.[5]

The following can indicate a delusion:[6]
1.The patient expresses an idea or belief with unusual persistence or force.
2.That idea appears to exert an undue influence on the patient’s life, and the way of life is often altered to an inexplicable extent.
3.Despite his/her profound conviction, there is often a quality of secretiveness or suspicion when the patient is questioned about it.
4.The individual tends to be humorless and oversensitive, especially about the belief.
5.There is a quality of centrality: no matter how unlikely it is that these strange things are happening to him, the patient accepts them relatively unquestioningly.
6.An attempt to contradict the belief is likely to arouse an inappropriately strong emotional reaction, often with irritability and hostility.
7.The belief is, at the least, unlikely, and out of keeping with the patient’s social, cultural and religious background.
8.The patient is emotionally over-invested in the idea and it overwhelms other elements of their psyche.
9.The delusion, if acted out, often leads to behaviors which are abnormal and/or out of character, although perhaps understandable in the light of the delusional beliefs.
10.Individuals who know the patient observe that the belief and behavior are uncharacteristic and alien.

[edit] Features

The following features are found:[6]
1.It is a primary disorder.
2.It is a stable disorder characterized by the presence of delusions to which the patient clings with extraordinary tenacity.
3.The illness is chronic and frequently lifelong.
4.The delusions are logically constructed and internally consistent.
5.The delusions do not interfere with general logical reasoning (although within the delusional system the logic is perverted) and there is usually no general disturbance of behavior. If disturbed behavior does occur, it is directly related to the delusional beliefs.
6.The individual experiences a heightened sense of self-reference. Events which, to others, are nonsignificant are of enormous significance to him or her, and the atmosphere surrounding the delusions is highly charged.

[edit] Types

Diagnosis of a specific type of delusional disorder can sometimes be made based on the content of the delusions. The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) enumerates six types:
Erotomanic Type (erotomania): delusion that another person is in love with the individual, quite frequently a famous person. The individual may breach the law as he/she tries to obsessively make contact with the desired person.
Grandiose Type: delusion of inflated worth, power, knowledge, identity or believes himself/herself to be a famous person, claiming the actual person is an impostor or an impersonator.
Jealous Type: delusion that the individual’s sexual partner is unfaithful when it is untrue. The patient may follow the partner, check text messages, emails, phone calls etc. in an attempt to find “evidence” of the infidelity.
Persecutory Type: This delusion is a common subtype. It includes the belief that the person (or someone to whom the person is close) is being malevolently treated in some way. The patient may believe that he/she has been drugged, spied-on, harassed and so on and may seek “justice” by making police reports, taking court action or even acting violently.
Somatic Type: delusions that the person has some physical defect or general medical condition (for example, see delusional parasitosis).

(Lippincott, 2008).[7]
Mixed Type: delusions with characteristics of more than one of the above types but with no one theme predominating.

[edit] Delusional disorder: Somatic type – A real life example

A 40 year old woman lost a significant amount of weight over the course of 2 years. She originally weighed 60kg. She dropped down to 29kg body weight, which can be unhealthy and potentially life threatening. Initially the doctors diagnosed her with anorexia nervosa, as she was malnourished due to her undereating. A further examination of the patient revealed that she was delusional and convinced that eating food would harm her body. Thus, she decided to stop eating. The doctors decided that she didn’t suffer from anorexia nervosa, but rather a somatic delusion disorder. She was later treated and the doctors were able to help her get back to a healthy weight. [8]

A teenager named Dean Fick suddenly gained major delusions regarding his life and the people around him. He began to believe that he was part of an elite group of people called the Illumnati, claimed to be friends with multiple celebrities, and had huge thoughts of grandeur regarding his physical state. It first seemed that he was just lying, but through several months of observation, doctors saw severe cognitive dissonance, to the point where he actually believed what he was saying, although they were obvious lies. A longitudinal study is currently being conducted through monthly sessions, however treatment was never sought out because of depth of his dissonance, and Dean continues to suffer from a major delusional disorder. [9]

[edit] Causes

When delusional disorders occur late in life they suggest a hereditary predisposition. Researchers also suggest that these disorders are the result of early childhood experiences with an authoritarian family structure. According to other researchers, any person with a sensitive personality is particularly vulnerable to developing a delusional disorder.[10]

Although its exact cause is unknown, it is believed that genetic, biochemical and environmental factors play a significant role in the development of delusional disorder.[11]

[edit] Diagnosis

The symptoms expressed by a delusional disorder can also be part of a much more serious problem, such as bipolar disorder or schizophrenia, therefore diagnosing the delusional disorder is conducted partially by process of elimination. This occurs because delusions can be part of many other illnesses including dementia, schizophrenia and schizoaffective disorder. They may also be part of a response to physical, medical conditions, or reactions when drugs are ingested.[12]

Interviews are useful tools to obtain information about the patient’s life situation and past history to help identifying the delusional disorder. Clinicians may review earlier medical records, with the patient’s permission. Clinicians also interview the patient’s immediate family. This is a very helpful measure in determining the presence of delusions. The mental status examination is used to assess the patient’s memory, concentration, and understanding the individual’s situation and logical thinking.[12]

Another psychological test used in the diagnosis of the delusional disorder is the Peters Delusion Inventory (PDI) which focuses on identifying and understanding delusional thinking. However, this test is more likely used in research than in clinical practice.[12]

[edit] Treatment

Treatment of delusional disorders includes a combination of drug therapy and psychotherapy although it is a challenging disorder to treat for many reasons such as the patient’s denial that they have a problem of a psychological nature.

Atypical antipsychotic medications (also known as novel or newer-generation) are used in the treatment of delusional disorder as well as in schizophrenic disorders. Some examples of such medications are risperidone (Risperdal), quetiapine (Seroquel), and olanzapine (Zyprexa). These medications work by blocking postsynaptic dopamine receptors and reduce the incidence of psychotic symptoms including hallucinations and delusions. They also relieve anxiety and agitation. When these drugs are tried but the symptoms do not improve, other types of antipsychotics may be prescribed. Some examples are: fluphenazine decanoate and fluphenazine enanthate. One very effective drug in delusional disorders is also pimozide.[13]

In some cases agitation may occur as a response to severe or harsh confrontation when dealing with the existence of the delusions.[14] If agitation occurs, different antipsychotics can be administered to conclude its outbreak. For instance, an injection of haloperidol (Haldol) can decrease anxiety and slow behavior, it is often combined with medications including lorazepam (Ativan).

In cases when severely ill patients do not respond to standard treatment, Clozapine may be prescribed although it may cause drowsiness, sedation, excessive salivation, tachycardia, dizziness, seizures and agranulocytosis.[14]

To treat long term symptoms, an oral novel antipsychotic is often prescribed on a daily basis. Antidepressants and anxiolytics are also prescribed to control associated symptoms.[13]

Psychotherapy for patients with delusional disorder include cognitive therapy which is conducted with the use of empathy. During the process, the therapist asks hypothetical questions in a form of therapeutic Socratic dialogue.[14] This therapy has been mostly studied in patients with the persecutory type. The combination of pharmacotherapy with cognitive therapy integrates treating the possible underlying biological problems and decreasing the symptoms with psychotherapy as well. Psychotherapy has been said to be the most useful form of treatment because of the trust formed in a patient and therapist relationship. [15] The therapist is there for support and must not show any signs that implicate that the patient is mentally ill. [15]

Supportive therapy has also shown to be helpful. Its goal is to facilitate treatment adherence and provide education about the illness and its treatment.

Furthermore, providing social skills training has been applicable to a high number of persons. It should focus on promoting interpersonal competence as well as confidence and comfort when interacting with those individuals perceived as a threat.[16]

Reports have shown successful use of insight-oriented therapy although it may also be contraindicated for delusional disorder. Its goals are to develop therapeutic alliance, containment of projected feelings of hatred, impotence, and badness; measured interpretation as well as the development of a sense of creative doubt in the internal perception of the world. The latter requires the empathy with the patient’s defensive position.


Legend Says:

Wow…i am proud of myself.
I am now competing with the great dave with equally long posts.


alison hodge Says:

Dave,Legend,Bella,Oleg,no offence you all make great points in one form or another,but can i ask a question though,please can you all shorten your posts,some of us have to get up to go to work in the morning?


Skeezerweezer Says:

Legend,

You shouldn’t be. At least give us the link to the read, not copy and paste a friggin Novella!! Can’t believe that got through, what a waste of space.


Dave Says:

Legend: Wow, we are all so very proud that you plagiarized and copy pasted from Wikipedia (see link)… and then clearly demonstrated you have symptoms of delusional disorder by pretending that it is your post (by omitting to mention your source), declaring you are proud of yourself, and having the delusion that your copy-pasted post competes with my original posts. In other words, you’ve proven to us that you have a delusional disorder, rotfl.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delusional_disorder

As I said, those people who pass judgments on others are usually the biggest culprits themselves. Unfortunately for you, I actually have written several Wikipedia articles in the past, so I recognized the source immediately.

***

Bella: If you really “don’t really care” you wouldn’t have cared to pass judgment on me, so stop denying. When you pass judgment on or about me — and I’m here without having posted to you or made a comment about you or your comment — then you’ve posted to me first. And stop being dense: the issue is not that I couldn’t stand your opinion about me, the issue is that you need to learn that when you pass judgment on somone then that person has every right to refute your judgment (it is not for you to decide how the object of your judgment will react to your opinion about him ). It’s clear that you and your ego don’t like it when the object of your judgment rejects your opinion. Your loss of control can be seen in the deterioriation of your writing in certain of your posts. If you weren’t so sensitive and didn’t want to make a big deal you would not have responded to my admonishment… so it’s really you who need to practice what you preach.


Oleg Says:

“Unfortunately for you, I actually have written several Wikipedia articles in the past, so I recognized the source immediately.”

Dave, if you are writing articles for Wikipedia, we should all be very worried. I hope you haven’t spent all your time editing the “Roger Federer” page.

I’m comforted by the fact that I’m not alone in thinking that most of what you say is pure drivel. It’s now well publicized that you have zero credibility.


Dave Says:

Oleg: the Günter Parche in you — or should I say the Anders Behring Breivik in you, if you are Norwegian — has long degenerated beyond a blackened kettle or troll. You actually claim “(to be) SURE Günter Parche thought he was being rational when he stabbed Monica Seles”. You actually claim to be certain how Günter Parche thinks, lol. No one intelligent would believe anything you say.

Unlike you — who dreams about Günter Parche — I was one of the thousands who actually did something positive — we were in the stadium specifically to cheer Monica Seles in her first tournament after the stabbing.

Don’t be jealous Oleg, your diary of a madman wouldn’t be published even after you do Günter Parche II.

The Roger Federer page is in excellent hands and does not need my input. No, my articles are on other subjects…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddy_Guy


skeezerweezer Says:

Oleg,

Guess you are now going to live a worried life…..

Dave,

Buddy Guy? Awesome artist!


Steve 27 Says:

Silence, the best soccer player in the history, failed an important penalty shot today against Chelsea. I remembered that shot of Federer against Haas three years ago in the French open, was his opportunity in that moment Nadal had already been removed a day earlier against
Soderling. Would it have been the Swiss declared the best of the open era had it not won Roland Garros?, Federer knew that this was his chance and squandered it. Against Nadal did not have the slightest chance of winning in Paris.
Federer did it, won the right to be called the GOAT, but that’s always debatable.

But back to Messi, at age 24, doing nothing remarkable in the selection of Argentina’s largest, with poor performances in the World Cup, the Copa America held in his country, with all the tabloids, with the media as an icon worldwide, with the euphoria of the years of domination of Barza, with multinationals decided to exploit the mark Messi to the universe and beyond, with agencies such as the UEFA determined to protect the Barcelona, hurting teams like Chelsea in 2009, all this, as not being declared the best ever, if this is always what counts in football, in life, always. Young people need icons, idols which be reflected, so are most susceptible to the message as well Laswell said a century ago. the medium is the message. No context information and know nothing of the background precipitating claims, makes the information becomes disinformation, therefore, the meaning is lost and a half-truth information is not true. Appreciate that we have internet, we have libraries, to always return to the governing of things, there will a great source to achieve the desired truth.


Oleg Says:

Nice tirade Dave.

Actually, you win points for the Buddy Guy reference. I’m a fan and play a lot of his licks on the guitar.

And if you really went to cheer for Seles in her first tournament post-stabbing, good on you. She deserved the support. The fact that Günter Parche got away with zero jail-time is a travesty of justice.

Now if you could stop the accusatory BS, blatantly pro-Federer propaganda, and ramblings about logic/rationality, I’d almost be inclined to consider you capable of intelligent discourse. That’s asking a lot from you though :).


Dave Says:

skeezerweezer: “Buddy Guy? Awesome artist!”

And what a humble guy in person even though so many great guitarists from Metallica’s Kirk Hammett to Jeff Beck to Eric Clapton idolize him. Here’s Buddy Guy and Stevie Ray Vaughan doing an impromptu jam (it’s a 1989 bootleg off the soundboard). Buddy is the louder and crazier guitarist who starts first, even though the SRV fanboys on the site think that’s SRV. It was Buddy’s Legend’s club in Chicago so everything is set up for him and Stevie just came in (I think he just flew in that night for Buddy’s birthday), so his guitar wasn’t properly set up and he probably didn’t have his guitar tech.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uJ14M3C5js


Dave Says:

Steve 27: You keep cherry picking. Over the last four years with Messi and Guardiola, Barcelona won 13 of the 16 possible titles they could have won — that’s unprecedented in modern soccer. So what if Messi and Barcelona are tired, injured and hit a wall at the wrong time? They have won plenty. What Messi has done by age 24 in modern soccer is phenomenal. Maradona never won Copa America, even when it was held in his country in the 1980s. Ronaldino never even played in Brazil’s Copa America winning squads. The World Cup is no longer considered the gold standard in football and everyone knows that all the talent in the world cannot make up for a weak Argentina team and poor preparation. As for the rest of the stuff you’re mumbling about, I can’t understand what you’re trying to say.

Oleg: So is this your way of admitting your hope of victory in a debate with me is fading? One needs intelligence, facts and logic to understand the difference between propaganda and a reasonable version of the truth. That’s asking a lot from you though :)

Buddy Guy: 74 years young
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doBxLZJzLsE


Oleg Says:

Dave, once again allow me to remind you that appending the words “intelligence, facts, and logic” to a sentence does not make you any more credible. You seem to have trouble understanding that. It’s like listening to a parrot (parrots like you, like to repeat the same words they’ve heard from other posts).

Your soccer analysis is as flawed as your tennis critiques. Not too surprised there. Messi can’t be considered the GOAT until he’s won the World Cup. Sorry, but it remains the golden standard. Ask any player what they dream of winning the most and it’s the World Cup.

And Argentina are not “weak”: Messi, Mascherano, Aguero, Higuain, Milito, Zanetti would be starters in most international squads. They’ve also been in the top 12 teams of the world since 1998, according to the FIFA rankings.

For tennis (this is a tennis board despite what some people might think), you’ll be happy to know that I think Federer is the GOAT. But unlike you, I accept that not everyone may share that opinion, and that it is perfectly acceptable/arguable to think that Laver or Sampras or player X is the GOAT.


marron Says:

Oh, Dave, you go on some. Somebody a bit pissy now that Rafa’s finally won a tourney again? That’s what I read out of all this griping and arguing. LOL


King Federer Says:

Dave,

Keep posting. It’s too bad not many people can appreciate your well-supported arguments. I don’t agree with some things you say, but there is no denying your presentation and research on the topic at hand. too bad, most rafat@rds try to cherrypick one or two points and try to accuse you on a personal level rather than discuss the topic. but then again they are RAF@tards. so, cannot expect them to understand logic/numbers. such low-life should only be responded to in the language of their choice “personal abuse and name-calling”.

good to see the raf@tards crawling out of their caves/holes. they have been itching to do so but unfortunately rafa doesn’t play south american clay season.


rave Says:

Legend, you can post what you want from any book you want about diagnosing a delusional disorder,but, if you have never worked in that field nor had any clinical training to diagnose and treat mental illness you do not have the right to try to dx Dave.

I wonder where this irrational hatred for Federer comes from. Hmmm! I wonder if the DSM V (which I understand should be out soon, or maybe it is already out) would have a DX and treatment plan for this disorder.

Dave, love reading your posts even. Always brings a smile to my face.


Skeezerweezer Says:

Dave,

Same here. Let it be known that Fed fans don’t always agree with you, and you knew that, but you at least take the time and effort to back up your arguments, while your opponets mostly spew personal attacks at you and try to get you to lower your reasoning to there lower IQ level.

Yes the Rafa fanatic armada is out. And why not? There was alot of built up steam just erking to get out. We are talkin a major built up of sexual tension with the Rafa Loves.

Rafa just won his first title since when? And of course it was on the most favorite tourney and surface.

Thank the powers that be that he finally won and broke a seven streak all time losing record. Now, he is unbeatable, lol.

Too bad they continue to lower the mans greatness by there comments…


Legend Says:

Wow the fed tards are really smart.
They have found out the source….oh what a surprise


Skeezerweezer Says:

^and whats that? C’mom Legend, why what where when?

U types yelp out “tard” when you can’t refute the argument. U give a “classic” example. Well done.


Legend Says:

Cool down my dear old lady.
Me refuting you doesnt change the slam count of Rafa Federer.
Sleep peacefully…..dreaming about your old man.


Skeezerweezer Says:

Legend

Night night ;)


Ajet Says:

glad to know that i skipped the long posts(reading very very little portions of each) or my day’d have ended!

but boy, are these guys out against dave??!!
i apprecate the support shown to dave by skeezer and king federer against the non-stop attack and/or counter-arguments by a pack of posters; but then again, knowing dave from my previous smackdowns with him, i can say that dave is an untiring and relentless defender as well as good offender, lol. ;)

however, i can say that football world cup is by far the biggest thing in football. other tourneys don’t hold acandle to it. and unless you’ve led your team to one victory in waka waka, forget about being counted as among the greatest.

and yeah, THE GREATEST IS PELE!!!


nadalista Says:

http://www.atpworldtour.com/News/Tennis/2012/04/Features/Nadal-Serve-Forehand-Analysis.aspx

This is what people should have been talking about re: Rafa’s presser, his match tactics not whether he mentioned Nole’s grandpa,…….

but that would be to assume they are capable of serious technical anaysis, which I doubt for the most part…………


alison hodge Says:

Ajet just read your brilliant post twice and still cannot stop laughing hilarious,as well as tennis footballs my other great passion,last night i watched chelsea beat barcalona in the champions league semi,to get to the final,even though it was one of the worst and one sided games ive ever seen chelsea play,fortune favours the brave eh,and the look on messis face after the match was absolutely priceless,and just to say i agree pele greatest footballer ever,no one else comes even close.


Wog boy Says:

Nadalista,

Thanks, I liked it but there is one thing that they should talk and that is deep balls with high bounce. If you don’t take them early you are in all sorts of trouble with Nadal. I said on the other thread that I don’t think that Nole with his top game would be able to win against Nadal in MC. Eight titles speaks for themselves, if you are able to beat all the players, including Federer and Nole few times, that means that MC is custom made for your game. If he does the same thing to Nole, if they are to meet, in Madrid and Rome than I can agree that new tactics is working, until then this is just one off on Nadals favorite tournament.
You are right, nobody has the right to take credit from Rafa for beating Nole, as Nole himself didn’t do it.


nadalista Says:

Wog Boy,

The deep balls with high bounce issue…….I think this tactic worked against Nole precisely because Nole could not take the ball early enough because of his court position! By pinning Nole to the back, Rafa gave himself plenty of time to adjust and get into position to unleash his weapon of choice, the forehand……

It then follows that Rafa was the architect of his own downfall, in part, in their previous meetings, those short balls were manna from heaven for Nole…….

Can’t wait for Nole’s counter-tactics…..

Your move, Nole…………..


alison hodge Says:

great link from Nadalista,but a great and fair post also from the wogboy,simply put Rafa was the better player and deserved to win the trophy, end of story.


Wog boy Says:

Alison,
Chelsea deserve to go through if for nothing, then for what they did to Chelsea in their previous match when they gifted victory to Barcelona, you know which one I am talking about. It is far to early to talk about Messi as GOAT. He is still well behind Pele, Maradona, particulary when you see players that he play with in Barcelona. Wait until and if he change the club or when they change the club. He is great but not greatest. If Real makes I will be cheering Real and Ronaldo, since my club is not doing well, Liverpool;(


Dave Says:

Oleg, what you seem to have trouble understanding is that you’re out of your league and lack credibility to pass judgment on anyone. It really doesn’t matter to me that you don’t understand what I write, because the smarter ones here do get it (i.e., most others except you). Even though you vacillate between dreaming of Gunthar Parche and listening to parrots, you wouldn’t be able to substantiate your claim that “(I) repeat the same words they’ve heard from other posts” in more than 5.5% of my posts (come on, put your money where your big mouth is and try to prove me wrong… you have to spend time on a statistical analysis though, lol). On theother hand, you simply parrot your tired superficial opinions.

Your flawed opinion on Messi and the World Cup does not matter. Your idol is Solskjaer got it wrong when he predicted one year ago “without a doubt” Man U would beat Messi and Barcelona at Wembley”. A far bigger Manchester United star Wayne Rooney was more intelligent: “”Messi is a joke. For me the best ever”. If Solskjaer is your idol, maybe you are too young to know serious experts like Graeme Souness, Ruud Gullit and Terry Venables, who “also agreed that Messi was world football’s best player of all time – at the age of just 24…. Liverpool hero Terry McDermott tweeted: “I played in a great LFC team of the late 70s and early 80s which ruled Europe but I must say I think this Barcelona team would batter us.” Pele’s teammate Tostao: “Even if you do not take the cold numbers of how many trophies he has won and how many goals he has score into account, I have no doubt about it that Messi is already better than Maradona…he is more complete, more consistent, more spectacular… He is reinventing the game – a mix of the real and the virtual” If you haven’t watched Tostao, do so. Tostao scored 32 goals in Brazil’s 1970 World Cup campaign and he’s a brilliant passer, yet you never hear him saying Messi can’t be considered the GOAT until he’s won the World Cup. Wake up: fewer people consider the World Cup the gold standard today.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1095693-poll-lionel-messi-pele-or-diego-maradona-who-is-the-greatest

When George Best was in his prime in the 1960s, some felt he was as good as or better than Pele in genius (Best is often considered one of the 10 greatest footballers ever) — yet Best and great goalkeeper Pat Jennings could not take Northern Ireland into even a World Cup Final. Had Best had a few better Northern Irish players, it’s likely his name would be alongside Pele, Maradona, Cryuff, Platini since the World Cup was the gold standard in the 1960s (no longer now). Bottom line, you could put any of the world’s great footballers in a tenth place team today and unless you have a great coach and a handful of players who find form, you’re not going to win the World Cup. You say “Argentina are not “weak”… They’ve also been in the top 12 teams of the world since 1998, according to the FIFA rankings.” Well Argentina are now tenth in the rankings. Ahead of them: Spain, Germany, Uruguay, The Netherlands, Portugal, Brazil, England, Croatia, Denmark. Messi can’t do it by himself and he can only do what his coach and team allows him to do.

When arguing whether tennis player A or player B or player C is GOAT the issue should be not whether “it is perfectly acceptable/arguable to think” any player can be GOAT… the point is which arguments for the different players stand up best to scrutiny. On this, I have every confidence that I can debunk the best arguments of tennis historian-writers like Raymond Lee or Joel Drucker, etc. Most others simply fart a set of superficial opinions as if they are right then get super defensive when those opnions are tested against facts and logic.

Thanks Marron, King Federer, Rave, Skeezer, Ajet for your support, but these pack of wimps are just fodder — despite their attacks, eventually they all fall flat on their faces.


nadalista Says:

^^^^thanks Alison.

But there is one thing Wog Boy (and many others) brings up which is: “I don’t think that Nole with his top game would be able to win against Nadal in MC.” Why not? What is it about the MC Centre Court that makes Rafa unbeatable?

I have a hard time buying this argument because it’s the same argument that was used to justify Rafa’s winning streak at RG……until it was broken by Sod. Who can forget how Sod lapped up those short balls from Rafa?

So, for me, it’s tactics, not the court texture etc, etc, which explains Rafa’s dominance.


alison hodge Says:

wogboy yeah your right i do know which match your talking about,luck evens out sometimes probably bad karma for Barcelona,and i have never said messi is the football goat,i agree with Ajet pele gets that honour imo,i would be delighted for chelsea if they win the final,and i hope liverpool win the FA cup as they are also my team,and a cup double would be great and not too shabby for king kenny on his first season back in charge at the kop.


alison hodge Says:

Nadalista yeah completely agree.


Wog boy Says:

Nadalista,

But how come that tactic doesn’t work in Madrid not to mention the other surfaces, when we compare number of titles? That is what I was talking about, I am not saying there is anything wrong with that, just that suits him perfectly.


alison hodge Says:

^Nadalista some fans feel the need to have to justify there favourite players defaets though.^


Wog boy Says:

Alison,

I know you didn’t say Messi is GOAT, just my thought about Messi :)


alison hodge Says:

^sorry wogboy above post not aimed at you,just an overall generalization^.


jamie Says:

Pelé is the soccer(football) GOAT.

Messi can’t even help Argentina win ONE World Cup.


Wog boy Says:

Alison,

No problem:)


nadalista Says:

Wog Boy,

I think Madrid is what you would call an outlier as far as clay court tournaments go. It’s not just the thin clay coating, there’s the altitude as well. Could be some players adapt better to those conditions better than Rafa, upshot being he fails to execute his game plans as he might at other venues………just saying

There is no denying that Rafa is grumpier at Madrid than he is at Monte Carlo…….could be this affects his game……….


Wog boy Says:

Jamie,

It is football, not soccer, it has always been football:)

Don’t you think that it is strange to call games in which they use hands to get the ball football, on the other hand you are calling tha where you cannot use hands, unless you are goolkeeper, soccer?


Steve 27 Says:

What does this remind me of Messi: Nobody is as good as when you win or as bad when you lose. Messi is now the world’s best. But I have inflated to infinity (ie q q is best Maradona and Pele – would like to see Messi in the era of Pele when there was no yellow card). He was the spoiled child, not even he ever gets criticized when the leg (spit at the Bernabeu, etc..) Everything is perfect with it. Delay but life puts everything in its place: Messi is not the best criminal charging (but has put a lot of goals q to beat CR), the Barza plays for his goals (and the other what? Be lame). Anyway, this is a lesson: there is no end of cycle (maybe just look over from Pujol. I look in the mirror of Iron), and Messi is better: stop being the spoiled child, be a man-footballer as the other (good: the best of all without consent)


jamie Says:

BTW, great to see Barca mierda getting some taste of karma yesterday after they cheated Milan a few weeks ago.

Well done Chelsea.


jamie Says:

Pelé, Maradona, Zidane, Cruyff, Ronaldo, Müller, Platini are all better than Messi.

Messi is a bottler when he plays with Argentina.


Skeezerweezer Says:

nadalista,

Thanks for that link that was a great read


jamie Says:

Some footie predictions:

Real Madrid wins La Liga.

Bayern München wins the Champions League.

Spain wins Euro2012 but Germany has great chances as well.


jamie Says:

World Cup 2014 in Brazil will be won by either Uruguay or Germany.


Steve 27 Says:

Ronaldino never even played in Brazil’s Copa America winning squads. The World Cup is no longer considered the gold standard in football

Actually he does, in 1999. But the most absurd is what you mention in second place.
Your few neurons that make you say, boy. Ask any player, coach, manager and fans if they prefer their team to be champions of the UCL or champions of the world cup. By god, do not keep continue fooling people with your uninformed post, followed only by your faithful and irrational squires. But to expect of young people now do not get that much with the great information we have and release the first thing that comes out.

I try in vain to you learn something. but your poor mentality continues you back. Poor boy, you see, trying to get attention. may not do well in what he does.


Dave Says:

Lionel Messi could have easily won 2 to 3 World Cups with Spain — he got Spanish citizenship in 2005… but turned down the invitation to play on the Spanish national team. Messi continues to play with Argentina, of whom former England international Gareth Southgate (57 caps) said the “(Argentinian) team that works around (Messi) hasn’t been quite good enough to provide him with that platform to go and play.” (Go to 38 min in clip of British TV documentary on Messi). In any case, as we will see, Maradona did not win the 1986 World Cup on his own as he was marked out of the final by West Germany.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v08hvGWJlnk

It’s one thing for a casual fan (layperson) to watch a few football games and jump to conclusions to opine that Pele or Maradona must be better than Messi. It’s a different level of credibility when a former opposing player who actually played against Maradonaon the same soccer pitch and who analyzes thousands of football matches for his job tells us that Messi is actually better than Maradona as well as the best ever. Alan Smith, former England international and Football Columnist: “I had the pleasure of once sharing the same pitch with Diego Maradona. Up until now, he is the best player I had ever seen. Yet Messi takes things further. Not only is he incredibly talented, his steady temperament makes him a much more dependable teammate. Without question the best ever.” This link summarizes views for and against Messi, but the polls show that 54% consider Messi the greatest of all time.
http://tinyurl.com/7wku65e

Chelsea skipper John Terry said two weeks ago: “And, quite clearly for me, (Messi is) the best ever. He’s a great individual, a great person as well and a credit to the sport. “For me, he’s got everything. He is magical.”
http://tinyurl.com/7x2asmy

Retired Nigerian footballer Segun Odegbami: “Through my personal experiences, I have a fairly good idea about what constitutes good football. I have never seen a team play the way Barcelona do. Their play is a perfection of the total football concept introduced by the Dutch in the early 1970s and orchestrated by Johann Cruyff and company. My opinion is shared by many other football followers and commentators. The team has such fluidity of movement and passing, speed of play, comfort on the ball, ability to keep possession even in tight corners, individual dribbling and shielding skills, creation of goal-scoring chances, goal scoring ability, fighting spirit, humanity and sportsmanship, even when the team is occasionally losing. What makes Barcelona the team it presently is, also defines the national team of Spain, the current World Champions and the No 1 ranked team in the Fifa list for some years now. It is not surprising that there are at least six Barcelona players in the Spanish national team. Even in this football orchestra, one man stands out. His presence has illuminated the game of football like no one else in this generation and arguably in history. I saw the great Edson Arantes de Nasimento (Pele) play. Physically, Pele is the most complete player ever. Maradona came slightly after my time in football but I watched him play through most of his career for club and for Argentina. He was an artistic genius also. I also watched Johan Cruyff, Michel Platini, George Best and Zinedine Zidane; all at their best. However, with the ball at his feet, I have not seen any player consistently do magical things from match to match the way Lionel Messi, the little Argentinian who plays in the heart of Barcelona’s attack, does. Still only in his early 20s, the world has been watching some of the most brilliant football ever put up by a single player. Some argue that, unlike Pele, Maradona and Zinedine Zidane, Messi has not led Argentina to winning the World Cup yet. True. I do not, however, think that takes away anything from the little genius’s consistent, commanding performances every week.”
http://tinyurl.com/6nbc6by

British newswpaper: “Whether we like it or not club football has now left international football behind and, as a result, the Champions League is at least as important as the World Cup. That is why Leo Messi’s domination of the European Cup is every bit as significant as the mark Diego Maradona left on Mexico 86… Messi owns the Champions League, at the age of just 24… Injuries allowing, he will finish his career having won the Champions League, and scored in it, more often than any other player. The World Cup question will have to wait until Brazil 2014 but, in the meantime, two myths about Messi, Maradona and World Cup finals needs debunking: one is that Messi did nothing in 2010 and the other is that Maradona won Mexico 86 on his own. Brilliant individual efforts from Jorge Valdano and Jorge Burruchaga beat West Germany, albeit with the latter strike coming from a Maradona pass. Diego was for the most part nullified by Lothar Matthäus in the Azteca Stadium and without his team-mates he would not have lifted the trophy… Separating them as players is difficult. It is true Maradona made Napoli champions and thrived in an era when flair players were largely unprotected. But Messi moving to a different country, aged 13, was a character test which Maradona never had to pass. And as the defenders bouncing off him every week prove, Messi hardly needs the match official protection he and all players now receive.”
http://tinyurl.com/72u7lye

Maradona’s international teammate, Ossie Ardiles, believes that Messi has already eclipsed these two legends of the game. “I think he’s certainly the best player of his generation. And I definitely believe not only that but he’s the best player in the history of football.” Ardiles adds, “To be perfectly honest, I thought I would never encounter anybody in the same league because Diego was a genius.”
http://tinyurl.com/cfcdzfh

55% consider Messi the GOAT. Video clips of Pele, MAradona and Messi in action
http://tinyurl.com/7r283x3

57% consider Messi the GOAT
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/poll/2012/mar/08/lionel-messi-greatest-footballer-all-time


Ajet Says:

Dave:

I am surprised that you think football WC isn’t the most important, but actually the kind of importance footbal WC occupies in the sports world, only olympic is greater(but then again olympic has so many sports in it, so in that respect, football scores over it as it is so relevant despite being just about a sigle game)! I don’t have words to descrbe the hype football WC creates even in India, knwing that India is stil a nobody in football, which is just amazing, and speaks volume about the importance of football WC…

and those who couldn’t lead their teams into WC victory falied to do so becuase of the fact that they were not just inspiring enough to be able to motivate their team mates to rise to the occasion. I dunno anout messi, whether he’ll be able to do so in the future or not, but if he is indeed an inspiring footballer, he should be able to do that. just loook at zidane, he almost led france to WC final snglehandedly whe nobody was actually giving much chances to his team, and the team was almost in shatters with his mates like thierry henry far form their best! still zidane singlehandedly did it, and if it weren’t for the cheating by italy to irk zidane, france may as well’ve won it! that’s the thing that separates an individual performer in football from a team player and legend like pele/zidane/platini/maradona/ronaldo. so if messi is good enough, and by that i don’t mean just talented(which he’s certianly is in tons), but also inspiring, then he should be able to INSPIRE his team in WORLDCUP to victory or at least take it to final single handedly like zidane did and not just score goals in places like copa america/la liga/bundes liga/english premier league/european championship/italian championship etc. messi has still time on his side, so may be he’ll do that(do something great in WC) and etch his name alongside the greatests of game. but until then, he’s just a very successful and popular and even a great footballer, but the greatest title’d elude him by a long shot.

with due respect to the domestic football leagues so popular worldwide, the hype, the attention and the relevance of football WC is universal in planet earth while others’re just regional. india is no football superpower, it’s below 100. and yet majority of indians who’re avid fans of different sports can never afford to miss watching two things,
1.cricket WC final if india is there, and
2.football WC: no matter what!


Dave Says:

Steve 27′s one tiny neuron is doing the Samba. Ronaldino never played in Brazil’s winning squad in the 1999 Copa America final, not even as a substitute, against Uruguay. Rivaldo (top player), Ronaldo, Roberto Carlos and Cafu were the big Brazilian stars in the 1999 Copa America. In 1999, young 19-year old Ronaldinho was not yet a key or consistent member of Brazil’s first team. When Ronaldinho was in his prime, he did not play the 2004 and 2007 Copa America.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_Copa_Am%C3%A9rica_Final


Ajet Says:

On a special note Dave, I agree with you about George Best, he had definitley the potential to match Pele, but too bad he spoiled his life by over-drinkng and womanising. And Pele, George Best and Zidane are my favourite footballers. my most favourite player is zidane actually, don’t care where he stands among the great/greatest, I simply love his play and his heart THE MOST!

I like Germany and England teams the most. Brazil is also ok with me kind of. SPain and Italy are my least favourites.


Steve 27 Says:

Why exalt you, kid?
Although it not has played the final in the Copa America, he and made a goal against Venezuela. Was it not, a participant of the winning team of that Copa America. Do not you know the differ the facts?
Poor Anglo-Saxon, junk food will be doing damage, and his little brain does not let you comment on other things other than trivial as sport. A frustrated and incompetent journalist.


Ajet Says:

btw, thanks alison, for being nice as always. :)

in fact, that gunter parche mirror comments were cracking me up like anything, lol ;)


Dave Says:

Steve 27, the Brazilian team that won the 1999 Copa America final (and therefore title) did not include Ronaldinho as starter or substitute. Young Ronaldinho was not a key member of the 1999 Brazilian team — or even appeared consistently on the first team — so even if he had played, it would not have been as a key member. But he did not play the final and so Ronaldino never even played in Brazil’s squads that won the Copa America trophy.

Wow, Ronaldinho scored one goal against Venuzuela. You forgot to mention that Brazil won 7-0 against Venuzuela, so even if Ronaldinho did not score it would not have mattered. How many games did Ronaldinho appear as a substitute in the other Copa America games?


Dave Says:

Ajet, I too love Zidane, consider him one of the 10 greatest footballers and rooted for France in 2006 — though France started slowly (in the first round, France drew its first 2 matches when Zidane played… but won its third match when Zidane didn’t play due to suspension), but Zidane improved from the second round and ended up the best player of the tournament. But bear in mind that the French team and the world knew that the 2006 World Cup was 34-year old Zidane’s last tourney before he retired from football, so emotions and love for Zidane was sky high.

I’ve been watching the World Cup since England won it, so I’ve probably seen more World Cups most. It is not lightly that I said the World Cup is no longer the gold standard in football. And a British newspaper takes it seriously when it writes: “Whether we like it or not club football has now left international football behind and, as a result, the Champions League is at least as important as the World Cup.” I have quoted famous footballers — who won or featured in World Cups — saying the same thing. Most casual fans have not caught up on this issue.

Despite excitement the World Cup still generates today around the world through modern TV and the media, in recent decades the actual level of performance of the best WC national teams tends to be lower than the best UCL club teams. The WC used to be considered — by far — the greatest football competition on the planet in the 1960s, 1970s and 1980s… than it is now. Part of this is because before the 1990s, the world cup was the only way to see the world’s best players compete with each other as most domestic club leagues around the world used mostly domestic players. So the English First Division were mostly English players, Spanish La Liga mostly spanish players, Brazil’s leagues mostly Brazilian players, German Bundesliga mostly German players. Because of the prestige of the WC, the powerhouse countries prepared well and the best players were less tired from club football and really wanted to win this tourney (as I said, there were teams with great stars like Northern Ireland who still failed to even qualify). Today, however, almost all the greatest footballers on the planet can be found in European club leagues and clubs like Barcelona are favorites to beat any national side (even Spain). So the UEFA Champions League today provides the only way to see the best club teams compete — and these club teams are better than the best country teams. Furthermore, in recent World Cups, many of the best footballers failed to shine because they were injured or burned after from long, tough club seasons, their teams were poorly coached and prepared, etc.

I’m going to re-post below what I tried to post earlier but it has been stuck awaiting for moderator’s approval because it had many links. Read at least the next paragraph.

British newswpaper: “Whether we like it or not club football has now left international football behind and, as a result, the Champions League is at least as important as the World Cup. That is why Leo Messi’s domination of the European Cup is every bit as significant as the mark Diego Maradona left on Mexico 86… Messi owns the Champions League, at the age of just 24… Injuries allowing, he will finish his career having won the Champions League, and scored in it, more often than any other player. The World Cup question will have to wait until Brazil 2014 but, in the meantime, two myths about Messi, Maradona and World Cup finals needs debunking: one is that Messi did nothing in 2010 and the other is that Maradona won Mexico 86 on his own. Brilliant individual efforts from Jorge Valdano and Jorge Burruchaga beat West Germany, albeit with the latter strike coming from a Maradona pass. Diego was for the most part nullified by Lothar Matthäus in the Azteca Stadium and without his team-mates he would not have lifted the trophy… Separating them as players is difficult. It is true Maradona made Napoli champions and thrived in an era when flair players were largely unprotected. But Messi moving to a different country, aged 13, was a character test which Maradona never had to pass. And as the defenders bouncing off him every week prove, Messi hardly needs the match official protection he and all players now receive.”
http://tinyurl.com/72u7lye

Lionel Messi could have easily won 2 to 3 World Cups with Spain — he got Spanish citizenship in 2005… but turned down the invitation to play on the Spanish national team. Messi continues to play with Argentina, of whom former England international Gareth Southgate (57 caps) said the “(Argentinian) team that works around (Messi) hasn’t been quite good enough to provide him with that platform to go and play.” (Go to 38 min in clip of British TV documentary on Messi). In any case, as we will see, Maradona did not win the 1986 World Cup on his own as he was marked out of the final by West Germany.

It’s one thing for a casual fan (layperson) to watch a few football games and jump to conclusions to opine that Pele or Maradona must be better than Messi. It’s a different level of credibility when a former opposing player who actually played against Maradonaon the same soccer pitch and who analyzes thousands of football matches for his job tells us that Messi is actually better than Maradona as well as the best ever. Alan Smith, former England international and Football Columnist: “I had the pleasure of once sharing the same pitch with Diego Maradona. Up until now, he is the best player I had ever seen. Yet Messi takes things further. Not only is he incredibly talented, his steady temperament makes him a much more dependable teammate. Without question the best ever.”

Chelsea skipper John Terry said two weeks ago: “And, quite clearly for me, (Messi is) the best ever. He’s a great individual, a great person as well and a credit to the sport. “For me, he’s got everything. He is magical.”

Retired Nigerian footballer Segun Odegbami: “Through my personal experiences, I have a fairly good idea about what constitutes good football. I have never seen a team play the way Barcelona do. Their play is a perfection of the total football concept introduced by the Dutch in the early 1970s and orchestrated by Johann Cruyff and company. My opinion is shared by many other football followers and commentators. The team has such fluidity of movement and passing, speed of play, comfort on the ball, ability to keep possession even in tight corners, individual dribbling and shielding skills, creation of goal-scoring chances, goal scoring ability, fighting spirit, humanity and sportsmanship, even when the team is occasionally losing. What makes Barcelona the team it presently is, also defines the national team of Spain, the current World Champions and the No 1 ranked team in the Fifa list for some years now. It is not surprising that there are at least six Barcelona players in the Spanish national team. Even in this football orchestra, one man stands out. His presence has illuminated the game of football like no one else in this generation and arguably in history. I saw the great Edson Arantes de Nasimento (Pele) play. Physically, Pele is the most complete player ever. Maradona came slightly after my time in football but I watched him play through most of his career for club and for Argentina. He was an artistic genius also. I also watched Johan Cruyff, Michel Platini, George Best and Zinedine Zidane; all at their best. However, with the ball at his feet, I have not seen any player consistently do magical things from match to match the way Lionel Messi, the little Argentinian who plays in the heart of Barcelona’s attack, does. Still only in his early 20s, the world has been watching some of the most brilliant football ever put up by a single player. Some argue that, unlike Pele, Maradona and Zinedine Zidane, Messi has not led Argentina to winning the World Cup yet. True. I do not, however, think that takes away anything from the little genius’s consistent, commanding performances every week.”

Maradona’s international teammate, Ossie Ardiles, believes that Messi has already eclipsed these two legends of the game. “I think he’s certainly the best player of his generation. And I definitely believe not only that but he’s the best player in the history of football.” Ardiles adds, “To be perfectly honest, I thought I would never encounter anybody in the same league because Diego was a genius.”

Several European polls have 50% to 60% considering Messi the greatest of all time over Maradona and Pele. Of course some ofthis is due to the recency effect, but still…


alison hodge Says:

Ajet your welcome as always.


Legend Says:

Fed tards are everywhere now.
In every irrelevant thread their objective is to prove that Federer is God


Dave Says:

As my post (see link) shows, Legend plagiarizes and copy pastes his posts… and even clearly demonstrated to us that he has a delusional disorder according to his own post. As I said, those people who pass judgments on others are usually the biggest culprits themselves of what they accuse others of. I guess the wise saying is so true: once a tard, always a tard, but only one can be a legendary tard and always a legendary tard :)
http://www.tennis-x.com/xblog/2012-04-23/9392.php#comment-265645


Ajet Says:

Dave:

Messi’s resume without world cup will be INCOMPLETE. There’s never in any history a GREATEST EVER who hasn’t won THE GREATEST THING EVER. ANd to be honest, there’s a hel lotta money involved in club football, that’s why the hype, otherwis we all know which tournament’s more important. british newspaper can say and write everything, but the world says WC is the gretaest. Moreover, it’s premature to declare anybody as greatest until the end of his career. Yes, messi is magical, but pele was also no ordinary. Moreover, media always runs after recent hype. them saying messi is greatest is like some people starting to say nadal is better than federer. I


Ajet Says:

I couldn’t care any less about the hype behind messi. he may have the potential to become one of the greatest ever. But I have to wait till he retires/or at later during his career to pass judgement on him being one of the greatest/greatest ever.

moreover, federer is greatest because everyone starting from laver to borg, sampras and connors, jmac, lendl an wilander etc etc. say so! similarly the day even maradona and pele and everybody else declares him as the greatest ever, is the day when we, even the casual fans, would believe that after reading their statements. moreover, fans may be casual, but at least they’re fans coz they care for and understand the minimum basics about any game including football, e.g football WC is still greatest event on earth re: football. and no fan really has any doubt about pele being the greatest, him being super genius as welll as most accomplished. the day someone finally surpasses him, we will all know it pretty clearly. not much space will be left to argue(just like the tennis fanatics like us as well as casual tennis fans are all unanimous that federer is the greatest, taking the example of tennis; or taking the example of cricket: it’s sir don bradsman; in golf: tiger woods; in boxing: Ali; in swimming that american guy; in F1: michael schumacher; and the list goes on). Until then, it’s just what it is: PELE IS GREATEST…


Ajet Says:

Dave:

In honour of messi, I’d lke to say one thng though. I definitely feel that Maradona was over-rated and Messi IMO is actually a more gifted and consistent player. Messi is also my fave among current lot, though my all time fave is Zidane followed by George Best. Pele comes third. the ranking is based on my sentimental attachment to these players besides their natural greatness.

And I sure feel it’d be a travesty of justice if Messi doesn’t become a part of a world cup winning team.


Ajet Says:

my other fave football players’re michael ballack, oliver kahn, thierry henri, beckham, wayne rooney and lionel messi.

BTW, HUGE CONGRATS TO ALL THE ENGLISH FANS ON THEIR SIDE CHELSEA’S VICTORY OVER BARCELONA!
Even though Manchester United is my fave football club team, I like all the english teams in general.

And importantly, Nothing makes me happier than seeing real madrid/barcelona and the italian clubs losing, hehehe! :D


skeezerweezer Says:

Legend re ; 3:29 post

Errr. ….didn’t you post something about delusional( or copy and paste a book on it ) ?


Dave Says:

Ajet, it is totally not true that “there’s never in any history a GREATEST EVER who hasn’t won THE GREATEST THING EVER.” I’m not sure when you started watching football or how much you know about football history. But before Brazil’s Garrincha and Pele, the GOATS were Alfredo di Stefano and Ferenc Puskas (see link) — both never won the World Cup. Di Stéfano never even played in the World Cup Finals, even though he played with three different national teams during his career: Argentine (6), Colombia (2) and Spain (31). Puskas reached the final in one World Cup Final, but lost to West Germany.
http://wiki.ask.com/FIFA_Player_of_the_Century

If the vast majority of great players and coaches (who understand the place of the World Cup in football) declare Messi the greatest football player of all time, Messi’s resume will be considered complete as far as what’s considered important… it does not matter if he does not win a World Cup, that his career is ongoing, or whatever else casual fans such as you are unhappy about. Already the many great players and coaches (including many World Cup winners) consider Messi the greater ever without winning the World Cup.

As a casual fan, you do not know whether “the world says WC is the gretaest” even though you believe it does. I’ve followed the World Cup long enough to know that one of the big knocks on the World Cup has become, too comercialized, “the hel lotta money involved (in the World Cup)” as well as FIFA corruption.

Almost all fan polls that I’ve seen over the past 15 months had over 50% picking Messi as the greatest of all time. It isn’t media hype behind Messi that’s driving this. There have been authentic accolades coming from many past and present greats (e.g., Wayne Rooney twittered his comments). Why would these great players and coaches frivolously give that accolade if Messi’s resume of achievements did not supercede a World Cup and merit being considered GOAT already? As more greats become cheerleaders for Messi, the tide of support will continue to grow. (few experts expect Pele to willingly concede Messi is the GOAT)

Against Messi, the key aspect for Pele remaining the greatest’ in is longevity of career. Pele is Santos’s all-time top goalscorer by age 35 in 1975, but Messi becoming Barcelona’s all-time top goalscorer by only age 24 playing today in the technically most proficient league in the world is what impresses the greats. Already Messi has won 18 trophies with Barcelona as well as three consecuitive World Players of the Year awards.

Have you actually seen Pele play complete 90-minute matches with Brazil, Santos and NY Cosmos, other than watch a few minutes of clips on You Tube? In the Brazil team, Pele was blessed with an extraordinay ensemble cast: Garrincha, Rivellino, Jairzinho, Gerson, Didi, Vava, Nilton Santos, etc, etc. For example, in 1962, Brazil won the World Cup without the injured Pele (injured since the second game of round one).

Nadal clearly isn’t considered a better or more complete tennis player than Federer (although he is extremely effective at what he does) by most of the greats. However, Messi is clearly a better and more complete footballer than Pele. Alfredo Di Stefano once said “Pele can do everything in the book with a ball. Maradona has his own book” meaning that Maradona could improvise magical things that’s outside the imaginary book of what to do with a football. Messi is like Maradona in that. Do you know who are the root inspiration behind the magical playing of Maradona, Messi, Ronaldino and Cristiano Ronaldo’? Garrincha and Rivellino, much more than Pele.

You failed the GOAT test, badly: Jack Nicklaus remains the Golf GOAT. Ayrton Senna remains the FI GOAT (in 2009, a poll of 217 current and former Formula One drivers conducted by the British magazine Autosport named Senna as “the greatest Formula One driver who ever lived”). Sugar Ray Robinson remains boxing and fighting GOAT. And for cricket is it Don Bradman — not “Bradsman” — or Sachin Tendulkar. Your privilege to choose Pele as football GOAT is revoked.


Dave Says:

Video clips of Pele, Maradona and Messi in action. After watching, vote: who is the greatest ever?
http://tinyurl.com/7r283x3


Ajet Says:

Dave:

Firstly: I’m 22 and I watched football since 1998. but i also have watched the old football matches which i thought were marvellous.

Secondly, as i said: messi has time to become greatest. until then, it’s Pele.

Thirdly:

I’m sorry about writin tiger woods as golf GOAT. I just couldn’t recollect the name of Nicklaus. I knew i was wrong somewhere here and you rightly pointed it out, good for both of us..

Fourthly: coming to Bradsman, sorry for the typo error. I know it as Bradman much better than you would like to believe, and I’ve even given references to bradman here before, if you may remember; so your correcting me is a nice clerical correction by you, kudos to you again, lol! ;) And speaking of tendulkar, he’s the biggest choker in crucial moments/under pressure. so no comparison between him and other match winners like ponting, lara, sobers, steve waugh, viv richards, miandad etc.

Fifthly:
As much as I appreciate the greatness of senna, it canot be disregarded that he’s 3 times world champion while schumacher is statistically the most accomplished ever.

Sixthly:
We shouldn’t fool anybody round here including ourselves by claming anybody else as greater fighter than Ali. The whole world knows, including expert and layman(and even children):
ALI IS THE SPORTSMAN OF THE CENTURY!!!
Actually I offended Ali by calling him just as the greatest fighter, he’s much more than that!!!

Last but not the least:
Much as the importance of football WC may’ve diminished understandably due to so muc money being put in various domestic leagues and players giving it all to run after the domestic league caps for the sake of money-minting, football, as per your own admisson still involves the maximum money, publicity and attention, and that’s simply because WORLDCUP IS GREATEST, it doesn’t matter what a club enthusiast like you ir a british newspaper says! good luck with selling your ideas about football WC not remeaining relevant anymore, but there’e overwhleming eveidence to the contrary! We may as well put the eleven best players in a club team, but it doesn’t mean anything when comparing its glory and satisfaction with the glory and satisfaction of a WC wining football team. I bet you think spain would be more delighted about having barcelona team than having the WC with it, lol! ;)


Dave Says:

Those unfairly putting down Messi for the recent matches should remember that he has played — by far — the most matches (53) and most minutes (4,592) on his Barcelona team this year.. that’s even more than the second best player who is the goalkeeper! The next best player after the goalkeeper played 17% less minutes than Messi. Xavi played only 3,378 minutes, Iniesta only 2,752 minutes.

We tend to jump to conclusions on players based on watching only a tiny amount of their games. Nobody is perfect, but Messi has given Barcelona far more good times — this year Messi scored an incredible 63 goals (and counting) in the world’s most advanced football leagues today. In Pele’s very best year for his club Santos, he scored 66 goals in 1958 (all scored in state leagues [58] and regional leagues [6] in Brazil, as there was no national league there until 1971 when Pele in decline at 31 years). Indeed, almost 70% of Pele’s 757 official career goals (Pele’s exaggerated 1280 goals includes non-official friendlies and exhibitions) were scored in the Sao Paolo state league in Brazil — which is not a national league like Spain’s La Liga or a continental league like the the UEFA Champions League. The level of competition that Messi faces and his consistent high performance is why so many great players and coaches have said Messi is the greatest of all time.

After the match, Barcelona’s coach Guardiola reminded everyone about Messi’s contributions: “We have got this far thanks to this kid. More than ever I want to thank him for what he’s done. My admiration for him knows no limits. He is an example for all of us, his competitiveness inspires us. He’s daring, he’s brave and he plays fantastically well in all kinds of different conditions. I don’t doubt he will have a few bad hours now but sometimes you smile and sometimes you are sad and it’s our turn to be sad. Someone else is going to the final in Munich and we have to come back next year.”

Barcelona’s recent three games are probably a blip: Barcelona looked a little tired and burned out and couldn’t reach their highest level… not surprising after playing so much and winning so much under coach Guardiola (winning an unprecedented 13 of 16 available titles in the past 4 years). some months ago, the great Johan Cryuff — a former Barcelona coach himself — criticized the Barcelona club management for overplaying the players even in the off season for the sake of making more revenue.

Even Real Madrid lost their UEFA Champions League semifinal as well… and its coach explained the strain of playing three consecutive huge games this late in the season caught up with both Barcelona and Real Madrid. Jose Mourinho believes the extra strain put on his Real Madrid players from beating Barcelona on Saturday, whilst Bayern Munich rested a host of players in their 2-1 win over Werder Bremen, proved decisive. He said, “We deserved to win, mainly because the matches were very even and it is a completely different situation when a team plays for a championship against a side that doesn’t. I had the same situation when Chelsea played Liverpool in a semi-final. Liverpool were 30 points off the top and played a reserve team at Fulham whilst Chelsea fought every game to win the championship that season. If we weren’t playing to win the title, we would have had fresher players, but the team were fantastic in terms of their physical condition. Barcelona played the Clasico (game between Barcelona and Real Madrid last Saturday) and then two days later lost to Chelsea, this has incredible value. You only have to look at the UEFA Champions League final which will be played between the fifth placed team in England against the second placed team in Germany, both of which used second choice players at the weekend.”
http://www.thenational.ae/sport/football/jose-mourinho-laments-barcelona-game-after-champions-league-loss


alison hodge Says:

Ajet my team liverpool play chelsea in the FA cup final,could be cup double for either club,BTW manchester united are the best football team in england,although i thought at one point city would go onto win the league,i think its uniteds to loose now.


Dave Says:

Ajet, so you think you know more than the F1 experts — the F1 drivers themselves? So your choice of Schumacher as F1 GOAT supersedes… the choice of Senna chosen by a poll of 217 current and former Formula One drivers who consider Senna as “the greatest Formula One driver who ever lived”? Have you even been close to an actual F1 racing car or been to a single F1 race?

F1′s greatest drivers: No. 1 Ayrton Senna
http://f1greatestdrivers.autosport.com/?driver=1

Autosport: “Drivers vote Senna greatest ever. Three-time world champion Ayrton Senna has been voted the greatest Formula 1 driver of all time by a unique poll of 217 of his fellow world championship drivers conducted by Autosport magazine. Senna beat Michael Schumacher and Juan Manuel Fangio to top spot in the unique poll, which is the most comprehensive survey of F1 drivers ever conducted.”

Just because someone has better stats doesn’t necessarily make Schumacher the greatest ever. It wasn’t just the stats that made Federer the greatest ever.

I have a signed Michael Schumacher cap and have been to two F1 races, so I take these things seriously.

What was it you said about casual fans being so smart and right to unanimously know that someone is the greatest? (Ajet: “coz they care for and understand the minimum basics about any game… casual tennis fans are all unanimous that federer is the greatest, taking the example of tennis; or taking the example of cricket: it’s sir don bradsman; in golf: tiger woods; in boxing: Ali; in swimming that american guy; in F1: michael schumacher; and the list goes on”).

I wanted to respond more to the rest of your post (Ali, corruption in World Cup, etc.) but sorry gotta go.


Dave Says:

Ajet, on behalf of 1.2 billion people in India and the only 741.5 people who still play criket in the world, let me say it was monumentally disgraceful of you to say “Bradman (is) much better than you would like to believe… And speaking of tendulkar, he’s the biggest choker in crucial moments/under pressure. so no comparison between him and other match winners like ponting, lara, sobers, steve waugh, viv richards, miandad etc.” This is sad, so very sad.

You just have to Google [greatest Bradman Tendulkar] to realize more people are considering Tendulkar greater than Bradman, even Australians.

“In the never-ending debate on who among Sir Donald Bradman and Sachin Tendulkar is the greatest batsman of all time, former England captain Naseer Hussain said his vote goes to the iconic Indian. “Sir Donald Bradman was great but for me the greatest batsman to have ever played the game is Sachin Tendulkar,” he said. Hussain rubbished the recent spate of criticism (from Ajet :) of the Indian cricket team after their humiliating defeat in England and Australia, saying that the sub-continental giants were still a force to reckon with… The former batsman, however, pointed out that the main reason for India’s dismal show in England and Australia was excessive cricket. “What I saw in England a few months after India’s World Cup triumph was a team that was not well prepared. They were not quite ready for England. “While a lot of the players were undercooked, most of the Indian players were overcooked. There was too much cricket being played (World Cup was followed by almost a two-month long IPL),” said Hussain. “The difference between the two sides was England were well prepared while India were not,” he added. Hussain said there was a need for the cricket board to give adequate rest to the seniors…. “Wins and losses are part of life. We did not bat well in Australia and we lost the series. But we are faring well in the ongoing Asia Cup,” Sehwag said. “We need to be positive and support the side. Support is vital.”

Australian Economist: Sachin Tendulkar greatest, ahead of Don Bradman.
An Australian researcher Nicholas Rohde cited statistics to argue that Tendulkar is the greatest batsman of all time…Tendulkar holds a very slim lead over Bradman but both players are far ahead of their rivals. The two players are so closely ranked, the lead position could switch repeatedly before Tendulkar retires.

Rohde said that by applying economic principles to batting performance, he has been able to rank players back through time… As a part of his calculation, Rohde took the total number of runs a batsman has scored in his entire career, and subtracted the number of runs that an average player of the same era would have scored if he had played the same number of innings. He constantly updates the figures and calculates new ranking tables. “Bradman has been No. 1 until recently, but Tendulkar for the time being is just a little tiny bit ahead. No ranking system is definitive and people are always free to disagree, although I do feel it’s a fairly sensible and intuitive way to rank the players,” he said… 1. Sachin Tendulkar (Ind) 2. Don Bradman (Aus) 3. Jacques Kallis (SA) 4. Rahul Dravid (Ind) 5. Brian Lara (WI) 6. Gary Sobers (WI) 7. Allan Border (Aus) 8. Sunil Gavaskar (Ind) 9. Steve Waugh (Aus) 10. Javed Miandad (Pak)

…Experts like Tony Greig, Ian Chappell and even India’s most hated coach Greg Chappell have argued that since Bradman had proved his greatness only in England and Australia and wasn’t subject to such intense video-analysis and scrutiny, Tendulkar could stake claim to being the greatest. Add the fact that the Don didn’t play one-day internationals and that argument isn’t without some merit…

Bradman, despite never having played a single Test on Indian soil, was eulogized in pre-independent India (as well as by Ajet :) because the colonized Indian public felt his mastery over English bowlers made the Indians feel as if Bradman was waging a war for them. In fact, Bradman had himself admitted that the maximum fan mail he got was from India (including from Ajet :). Probably such hero worship till the time he passed away in February 2001 didn’t quite make the Indian public realize how great Tendulkar was. Rohde endorses that. “I don’t see it as entirely trivial, but it isn’t an indisputable result either; it’s somewhere in the middle. My feeling is that devotion to Don Bradman probably robbed India of a national icon a little bit. And if you wanted my personal opinion on who was the better of the two, Bradman or Tendulkar, I would say that it was perhaps too close to call,” he said.

Is Don, is good? How Tendulkar eclipses Bradman
http://theconversation.edu.au/is-don-is-good-how-tendulkar-eclipses-bradman-4875


Ajet Says:

Dave:

tendulkar actually seriously chokes in the semis and finals or even QFs of worldcups when he plays against quality bowling. We all know how tamely he gave in against AUS in 1999 WC qrs, in 2003 WC he again was superflop against mighty Aussies, and the same old story again in 2007. Even in 2011, tendulkar’s centuries came in the opening two matches both of which India didn’t win! You find out how manycenturies tendulkar has actually made when the team is chasing big targets. and you also find out what tendulkar has done in the second innings in test matches. Add to that, his centuries never came at the right time in WCs, never when facing pigeon Mc Grath! Fact is fact. Colonial mindset who cares! fact is more important.

You knwo India has actually world beating sportsman like Vishwanathan Anand, Geet Sethi, Pankaj Advani, Abhinav Bindra, Mary Kom etc. But this sachn guy takes away sheen from everyone. He has lots of 100s, but not one when team needs most in the WC!

In fact the centuries by de silva/ponting/gilchrist in WC finals and that world cup saving turning point century vs proteas by Steve Waugh are always gonna be remembered more, of course sachin fanatics/worshippers would never admit it as they can’t see a thing beyond sachin! SLAVISH MINDSET I’d say!

BTW, I’ve never sent any mail to any player except federer! ;)

And you know Dave, to tell you the truth some Indians consider their country as a real superpower and what not, but come to real rural India or to even the more humble urban areas, the truth is crystal clear! I cannot be a chauvinist! I can’t be the Indian who thinks every nation starting from east to west are destroyed by the inflation and depression crisis and only India has survived the catastrophe, lol! I’ve come in touch with the very ground level and therefore would never believe in such hogwash by some who think India’s on top of the world! Until it happens, I can’t admit it!

Better to be grounded and stay in India to contribute to its growth with the knowledge I got than leave India searching for stuff and yet claim as if NATO is our pet! ;)

—————

alison:

BTW, i was thinking of remeining neutral in this match. But knowing that you’re supporting chesea, for your sake, I hope they win! :)


Ajet Says:

Dave:

i don’t think i know more than F1 experts! i just opined my different view, am entitled to it. nobody can stop me from it.

i only responded to your claim that my GOAT list failed, but then again, so did yours when you claimed someone else as better than ali in boxing or that tendulkar is better than bradman!

you know what, nobody’s perfect including you, even though you might not agree!

And don’t be surprised if tendulkar arranges matches with afghanistan, bhutan and mongolia and reaches 200 centuries so that blind sachin fanatics, who behave as if their life depended on sachin’s mercy, get satisfaction and proclaim him GOAT! ;)


Ajet Says:

Dave:

there was a time from his career start upto 1998 sharjah that tendulkar really played fearless and attacking cricket like don, nobody came even close to sachin then, he then really used to play like the best batsman ever, but it was very shortlived! nevertheless, that was the sachin I used to love like mad! but then sachin got injured, was forced to make his batiing stlye and make it more defensive! since then he has still played great, but not the way the best ever would play!

nobody more talented than tendulkar, I’d still maintain this! however, it is a very well know fact that sachin dosn’t have as carefree/fearless a mindset as gilchrist or waugh. he has many times wavered under pressure, and he has received a lot of criticism for it. and even now, he’s receiving a lot of criticsm, but for a different cause, i won’t go to that!


Ajet Says:

Dave:

if stating fact is to be taken as criticism, so be it!

and while you’ve pointed out the opinion of some experts confused between tendulkar and don, i’d like to say one thing here: guys like sobers and mc grath, who’re nothing less than golden greats, they consider Lara as better batsman! now, go figure! and have you heard about graeme pollock? ;)


Ajet Says:

add sangakarra, ian chappell and muralitharan to the list of the heavyweights who’ve opined that Lara’s a tougher guy than sachin! and there must be many more!


Dave Says:

Alison, your club Liverpool was once the greatest football club in Europe, and has only one less league title than Man U (my fav British club). Liverpool won an incredible 4 European Cups (UEFA Champions League) from 1977 to 1984 as well as won an incredible 11 English league titles from 1972 to 1990. Did you have a chance to watch them then?

Alsion and Ajet: Listen to this clip on a debate on this clip about Messi’s place among the greats. Liverpool hero Graeme Souness — who played against both Pele and Maradona — said said Messi is “the best ever player”. The intelligent and thoughtful Souness is the oldest gentleman in the left-center (he has incredible experience from both playing in and managing great football clubs). Former Manchester United captain Gary Neville is the moustached guy on the right-center who argues why Messi should be considered the greatest ever despite his age and not having won the World Cup. Souness half-joked that Messi had hit the goalposts (“woodwork”) 10 times in the last World Cup. The idiot on the far right is former Liverpool player Jamie Redknapp, who as a player was a level below Neville and certainly Souness. Redknapp answers first, Souness second, then Neville.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQqk9Y14J-4&feature=related

Liverpool hero Terry McDermott tweeted: “Messi is the best ever. I played in a great LFC team of the late 70s and early 80s which ruled Europe but I must say i think this Barcelona team would batter us.”

Graeme Souness and Terry McDermott have not only seen both Pele and Maradona, but have played football at the highest levels of their eras. They were great Liverpool mifielders in the 1970s to early 1980s (Souness was also Liverpool captain from 1982 to 1984). The brilliant Souness has been inducted into the English Football Hall of Fame, Glasgow Rangers’ Hall of Fame and Scottish national team Hall of Fame and is on the Football League 100 Legends list. Since 1986, Souness has managed-coached Liverpool, Rangers, Southampton, Benfica, Newcastle United, Blackburn Rovers, Torino, Galatasaray. McDermott, who also played for England, was the Professional Footballers’ Association Players’ Player of the Year in 1980.
Gary Neville won 1 UEFA Champions League title, 8 league titles and 3 FA Cups with Manchester United. Jamie Redknapp won only secondary titles with Liverpool: 1 League Cup and 1 UEFA Super Cup.


Dave Says:

Ajet, so you admit you stalk Federer but your inferiority complex from a colonial mindset keeps you from appreciating an Indian gem like Tendulkar. You think those great cricketers who consider Tendulkar greater than Bradman haven’t considered all those negative issues you did, but realized that in the bigger picture Tendulkar has even more positives? Now you’re telling me that India’s growth is a mirage that hasn’t improved the plight of rural areas. Geez, your negative attitudes are not contributing to growth in India (take a look at Singapore, a resouceless country that had an average income (per capita GDP) lower than resource-rich Ghana in the 1960s, but now is one of the top five countries in average income).

Ajet: “i don’t think i know more than F1 experts! i just opined my different view, am entitled to it. nobody can stop me from it.” Just like nobody can stop us from educating you on the facts and logic to give you the choice to improve your ‘different view’.

Ajet: “(your GOAT list) when you claimed someone else as better than ali in boxing or that tendulkar is better than bradman!” Even Ali agrees that Sugar Ray Robinson is the greatest. You obviously do not understand that there is a difference between “sportsman of the century” and “greatest boxer of all time”, and that you can be one without the other. It is correct to state that there are other athletes who are better in their chosen sports than Ali is in boxing… as well as state there are other boxers who are greater in boxing than Ali — indeed, many insist Sugar Ray Robinson was even better in the ring than Ali (some are saying that of Manny Pacquiao now) — but nobody else has managed to transcend sport quite like Ali.

I never claimed that Tendulkar is better than Bradman. All I did was ask a question (and correct your spelling :) “And for cricket is it Don Bradman — not “Bradsman” — or Sachin Tendulkar” and presented evidence that the experts were divided.

Ajet: “tendulkar really played fearless and attacking cricket like don… while you’ve pointed out the opinion of some experts confused between tendulkar and don” Lol, these experts were not “confused”, they were clear about their choice, and they realize that Bradman’s feats were limited to Australia and England, while Tendulkar played under more diverse conditions.

Ajet: “don’t be surprised if tendulkar arranges matches with afghanistan, bhutan and mongolia”. Unlike Bradman, who was terrified to play outside Australia or England.

Ajet: “nobody’s perfect including you,” To assess perfection, you’d have to be perfect. This you are not. So how can you appreciate me?


jamie Says:

Alison is supporting Chelsea?

Too bad since they will be destroyed in the final by Bayern München.


Ajet Says:

Dave:

inferiority complex it is not but simple reality! and you’re showing that feudal lordship mindset by wanting each and every one to concur with your own views irrespective of flaws in your views!
and trust me, if i had inferiority complex, then i’d have flown to some US/UK educational institute for doing my higher studies and made a bee-line and not instead remained committed to complete my study in the university of my home state orissa and yet have the courage to do well in my job no matter where in india! that’s my element, those who know me, know it.

”Now you’re telling me that India’s growth is a mirage that hasn’t improved the plight of rural areas”
you’ve seldom been more correct than this! ;)

”take a look at Singapore, a resouceless country that had an average income (per capita GDP) lower than resource-rich Ghana in the 1960s, but now is one of the top five countries in average income”
care to ponder why so? and why india couldn’t instead be above singapore??? do your research in field in india if you’re interested, and you’ll atutomatically find out the answer!

and nobody’s saying sachin isn’t like a gem, but he’s definitely not the brightest gem like you think, see the difference!

and stop drooling over your clerical correction, so much joy over removing typo error(bradsman) of mine, hahaha! you’re obsessed! ;)

and please, don’t tell me what you know about grassroot reality in india! it’s laughable! to educate you a little bit our gvernment to cover up its failure to remove large scale inequality prevalent here, was mooting through a committee to lay down that one who spends half a dollar per day shouldn’t be considered below povety line! is it enouhg for you to understand india??? hope so!

and to burst your bubble, you know, being a 22 year old graduate, just joined the bar and acting for securing justice to others as an advocate is my job. from justice, springs equality and non-discrimintion and that leads to growth! i’d rather speak the truth about the drwabacks of my country and work for its progress than talk big and make others believe that india is ideal place and evade responsibity or gobble up resources in name of doing development and make my nation further debt-ridden!

you’re probably older than me, so anything educative, i’d accept from you instead of hitting back at you with the way i did previously in avoidable way, but i’m happy not to receive your misinformation re: WC not being most important/messi being greatest!

”Ajet: “don’t be surprised if tendulkar arranges matches with afghanistan, bhutan and mongolia”. Unlike Bradman, who was terrified to play outside Australia or England.”
we all know bradman told you so about himself! ;)

”Ajet: “nobody’s perfect including you,” To assess perfection, you’d have to be perfect. This you are not. So how can you appreciate me?”
are you perfect???!!! of course you’re in your own opinion, which is fine! I don’t mind! ;)
and funny to know you wanna be appreciated by one and all, but your partial truth and misinformation from time to time prevents you from being appreciated by one and all. and if only you were a bit less boastful about your supposed perfection and spent a bit lesser energy for thrusting upon others your ownn views, then your life could be a lot easier here!


alison hodge Says:

Ajet your probably right,but you never know fortune favours the brave well sometimes anyway lol,but im hoping also that liverpool will win the FA cup,and to be honest id be more happier with that.


alison hodge Says:

Dave great post and thanks for the link,apart from tennis footballs my other great passion,however i do love liverpool but my significant others from coventry and i used to work there as a steward on match days,for my sins i also watch lower division and non league rubbish,and i have to say i was there at that match when 2nd division york city beat manchester united 3 0 in the coca cola cup,sorry but it was a great night for us.


Dave Says:

Alison, OMG 0-3 at Old Trafford too. Come on, you cannot possibly hold Man U to defeat in (only) a League Cup game in which half the team was a B-side (they played without Peter Schmeichel, Eric Cantona, Gary Neville, Roy Keane, Paul Scholes, Andy Cole… and Steve Bruce came in as a sub) . Anyways, York did well to survive the full Man U team in the return leg to win on aggregate and… you have been paying for enjoying this sin ever since :)


Dave Says:

Ajet: If I were a feudal lord, I wouldn’t be interested in your views… I’d simply chop off your head like any decent feudal lord does for a pastime.

It doesn’t take much courage to remain in India; it takes more courage to succeed outside your comfort zone in a globalized world (e.g., at Shanghai airport, I once met three Arab men dressed in Arabic thwab (robe) who had arrived to study how to converse in chinese and do business in China… now, that was courageous).

You, on the other hand, fool yourself that you are completing your studies in an Orissa university, but clearly you keep making a bee-line to Tennis-X and other Westernized X-rated sites to enhance your development and mind.

There’s no need to ponder or research why India — with all its resources and history — isn’t 10 times richer per capita than Singapore. Having interacted with you here indicates to me that Indians from India (especually Orissa) are perennial whiners, excuse makers and have a big ego :)

So I’ve found a very smart Indian from Singapore who can be a beacon for your learning (and don’t treat him like a cheap synthetic gem the way you do to poor Tendulkar). Prof. Kishore Mahbubani has served two terms as President of the UN Security Council — simply put, he’s about 98 times smarter and wiser than you, so listen humbly. Clip of Mahbubani on BBC’s Hardtalk (this is the first part of three clips).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwRQjlGXlS8

Continued…


Dave Says:

Ajet, Mahbubhani has excellent books “Can Asians Think” and “The New Asian Hemisphere: The Irresistible Shift of Global Power to the East”. One chapter is is on “Following Singapore’s lead on the road of development” (see link) — it’s 11 years old, but still relevant in providing a frame for pondering why India hasn’t risen above Singapore. He’s also written a 2009 article “Can Singapore fail?” which you can find on his website mahbubani.net in the sections on ‘Articles BY Kishore Mahbubani’. There are several articles relating to India as well.
http://www.singapore-window.org/sw01/010115et.htm

Goodness, you’re a newbie lawyer who actually believes idealistic crap about “acting for securing justice to others as an advocate is my job. from justice, springs equality and non-discrimintion and that leads to growth” blah, blah and blah. You’re headed to being part of the problem in India.

Learn from a better example. Read Lee Kuan Yew’s book “From Third World to First: The Singapore Story, 1965-2000″. Singapore’s Lee graduated with a rare ‘double-starred first’ in law from Cambridge University, but instead of wasting his life in a legal career and pontificating like you… he became a politician and led the transformation of Singapore.

There are also excellent books/articles on Corruption in Asia and Public Administration in Singapore if you’re interested. Singapore is just one model of development, albeit chockful of great ideas.

That you believe my views are flawed shows a fundamental, deep flaw in your mindset. To someone like me — who has watched Pele, watched Maradina play, has watched many World Cups, watched Ali while he was still Cassius Clay — you have no idea how comical it is to read judgments from posters like you such as “your misinformation re: WC not being most important/messi being greatest!”. The first step to learning and wisdom is to have the humility to accept that you don’t yet have the necessary experience and wisdom to give you context on issues like Pele is the greatest or Muhammad Ali is the greatest, blah, blah. So when someone becomes defensive about their opinions that they really know little about, that’s ego talking.

I didn’t say I was perfect or wish to be appreciated. You did. But a sharper lawyer would have realized that most of the time I’m polemic simply to bust up the misconceptions of big-ego posters who initiated contact or passed judgment in order to foist or defend their flawed views over my posted views. (my life is here is easier than you realize :)


Dave Says:

Ajet, if you want to productively ponder on ways to reduce large- scale economic, social, political, etc inequality and reduce discrimination in a way that leads to quicker, sustainable growth and development… then it’s worth listening to leaders who actually did it by defying the norms and odds. A key factor is to have an infrastructure of the most talented leaders possible, like any good big company has.

Here’s Lee Kuan Yew talking with university students on “Singapore – the next 50 years” (Part 1 of 3 Parts). He’s the former prime minister of Singapore, about 86 years old at that time yet his mind is extremely sharp. Imagine if he remained only a lawyer — what an entire nation of people would have not gained.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVRW9yb6mdk&feature=related

I know that — as a blood-sucking lawyer — you’re terrified of “evade responsibity or gobble up resources in name of doing development and make my nation further debt-ridden”. But if managed well (as Singapore learned by trial and error), such risks are reduced and the returns to local people are maximized. In the Part 3 clip, Lee Kuan Yew refers to a joint Singapore-China economic project in China named “Suzhou Industrial Park” which is the size of a small city. It’s average annual growth rate apparently exceeds 30%, which is incredible. It’s used as a model for growth (based on learnings from Singapore) in other parts of China. Similar ideas can be applied in India.
http://ic.ruc.edu.cn/english/displaynews.asp?id=1739


alison hodge Says:

Dave yeah your dead right i know that,but whichever way you look at that game,york were not expected to win and were the underdogs either way,and man utd still had 6 england internationals in there side,man utd were still the side that was expected to win,york cannot be held responsible for a side man utd decided to field,they should not have underestimated the opposition,york showed alot of heart that night,but your right they have been paying for it ever since lol.


Ajet Says:

Dave:
i feel sorry for you as you don’t know that a role, howsoever small, is important. Anybody can contribute within his own limits to his country. Some more and some less! And if joining politics was the only way to transform, I’m sure you’d join it sooner or later, presumably, as it seems you believe in what Archmides said: Give me a place to stand, and I shall move the earth!

And am i as good and intelligent as two times prez of UN Security Council? no! but am i misleading as you? Thankfully not either! ;)

and to be honest, tennis-x is a good site for my pastime and i come here to relax myself, not to listen to your ill-advice/misinformation! great that you’re so full of love for india, but so am i in my own way(and oh, i do like other countries for their respective greatness and beauty too, hehe), which you’d never realize. your ignorance and your audacity as well as liar mindset, which you showed by accusing me of being blood-sucking lawyer, is enough indication of it! It must be fun for you to throw dirt at others, no? ;) I mean Your credibility is as good as or even may be better than those who accuse you of posting under multiple names! ;)
you never accept that the world is a lot bigger than your tiny mind! and the fact that you’ve no shame of falsely accusing others of doing things they’ve not done clearly shows your mind is messed up BIG TIME!
and speaking of proving myself in the world, I am fine with ‘’thinking globally and acting locally’’ for the time being! And at the beginning of my professional life, I’ve no reason to believe that I should stop marching to bigger and bigger responsibilities that’re bound to come in my life, even though you would vehemently disagree! Thankfully, my life doesn’t depend on what others think of me! ;)

”Prof. Kishore Mahbubani has served two terms as President of the UN Security Council — simply put, he’s about 98 times smarter and wiser than you” POINT TAKEN! :D
i hope you can understand the difference between mahbubani and yourself, hahaha!

LASTLY: ‘’Ajet: If I were a feudal lord, I wouldn’t be interested in your views… I’d simply chop off your head like any decent feudal lord does for a pastime.’’
Now that’s some logical and polite way of answering, as osama bin laden would subscribe to, lol! ;)

NOW RELAX YOURSELF, you must be tired of waving your virtua sword at me! ;)

TAH TAH!


Dave Says:

Alison, York displayed its heart not once but twice: whipping Man U at Old Trafford, then — having woken up the sleeping giants — in the return leg at York dealing with the full power of the full Man U team to beat the red devils on aggregate. Not Ferguson’s finest hour. But you’re right, the Man U side still had several quality players on the team, surely the replacements used would have been good enough for a good team in second division at least, and it must have been scary for York to play in Old Trafford. York probably plays before about 5,000 fans at home. And Man U still won the two biggest domestic trophies — league title and FA Cup that season.

As for Barcelona, it all now makes sense: Barcelona’s coach resigned today, despite the club’s efforts to keep him. Guardiola explained “Four years is an eternity as coach of Barca… Time wears everything down, I feel drained and I need to replenish.” Apparently Guardiola had already decided to leave the club months ago. No wonder several key players close to Guardiola such as Messi, Xavi and Iniesta seemed and played unusually moodily over the past week. Guardiola inspired team unity and spirit. Heartbroken Lionel Messi was unable to bring himself to attend press conference announcing Guardiola’s departure, and said he wanted to hide his grief from the press.

So it was not just the players who were burned out it was also the coach.

I had said earlier that “Messi and Barcelona are tired, injured and hit a wall at the wrong time…Barcelona looked a little tired and burned out and couldn’t reach their highest level… not surprising after playing so much and winning so much under coach Guardiola (winning an unprecedented 13 of 16 available titles in the past 4 years). some months ago, the great Johan Cryuff — a former Barcelona coach himself — criticized the Barcelona club management for overplaying the players even in the off season for the sake of making more revenue.”

Guardiola has probably achieved the most successful four-year runs any coach has ever achieved at any major football club, and he leaves as the most successful coach in Barcelona’s history :

– In his four seasons, Barcelona has lost just 19 times in 239 matches (just 10 in La Liga and five in the Champions League). Barcelona’s seven losses in 2008-09 were the most in a season. Barca lost four games in 2009-10 and six in 2010-11.

– Barcelona won an incredible 13 trophies under Guardiola (out of 16 possible at the time). Barcelona will have a chance to win 14th title under Guardiola when it faces Athletic Bilbao for the Copa del Rey on May 25 in his farewell game.

– Barcelona achieved perfection in 2009, winning six trophies in all six competitions it entered that year: La Liga, Copa del Rey, Supercopa, UEFA Champions League, UEFA Super Cup and FIFA Club World Cup.

– Barcelona won five trophies in 2011. The only trophy it did not win was the Copa del Rey. It fell to Real Madrid, 1-0, in overtime in the final.

– It captured three straight La Liga titles, the first time a team won three in a row since Barcelona’s Dream Team of the early 1990s.

– It has won at least two trophies in every competition except the Copa del Rey. Barcelona will have a chance to win its second Copa del Rey title on May 25.


alison hodge Says:

Dave thanks york play to 5,000 fans at home, yeah that would be on a good day try 3500 lol,which now is a bumper crowd, and they are considered a big club now they are in the conference,as you say not SAFs finest hour,not Everton boss Joe Royals finest hour the following season either when we did the same thing to them,thats the giant killers for you who have nothing to loose,same to a lessed extent for chelsea who aint expected to win inthe champions league final either.


alison hodge Says:

^sorry lesser not lessed excuse the typos duh.^


alison hodge Says:

Dave BTW the york players said they were relishing playing man utd,and yorks manager at the time said im going to enjoy this match and let SAF do the worrying as my boys have got nothing to loose,the ground is amazing not one bit of litter anywhere,and a fantastic atmosphere,all our players dived on the grass after the match after the match together to raptuous aplouse,and the team got a standing ovation from the man utd fans,a fantastic night,you had to be there.


Dave Says:

Alison, I just checked the figures — York had almost 10,000 fans when Man U came for the return leg! York did it to Everton as well? Incredible giant killers… and they must have made enough revenue to cover their tavern visits for years, lol.

Yes, I think Chelsea is the team of destiny here. It would be something to beat Bayern Munich in Germany. And it’s not as Chelsea doesn’t have very good (albeit old and out of form) players in goalkeeping, to defence to midfield and attack. Drogba got a lot of attention but Petr Čech saved a certain Messi goal in the second half.

No worries about the typos, I make lots of it as well and there’s no edit function.


Dave Says:

Ajet: There are many ways to chop off heads without a sword :) But in jumping to your conclusions, you’re missing the bigger picture: I never said that a small role has no value — so don’t try to go Gandhi on this — I was challenging you to be all you could be and have a greater purpose than what you have limited yourself to. I dangled a few keys to help you contribute more to your country (the info on Mahbubani and Singapore is only a tiny fraction of what I have to offer) while I also simultaneously pushed you — to test whether you would have the desire to seize the opportunity or whether your noisy ego would put a priority on childishly responding to my banter (and it was just over-the-internet banter, duh). Unfortunately, your disappointing response was to talk about putting limits to your contribution to your country and to waste your time childishly retorting to what I wrote (do you get the TV show “House” over there?). Your analysis and emotions, as shown in your postings, is not impressive for a supposed law graduate (you are either lying that you’re a lawyer or else you really need to re-do your law studies at a better law school such as National Law School of India University… before you attempt to help your injusticed clients, heaven help them). I know enough Jessup Moot winners to have an idea of a sharp and controlled legal mind.

Before you can hope to succeed even as a lawyer “within his limits”, I’d suggest you first meditate on how to develop much more humility, emotional control and intelligent thinking… than what you think you have. You’re still very young and obviously lacking in wisdom, knowledge and experience whose big ego and over confidence drives you to talk big about things you do not know. Like I said, it’s comical for a pup like you to presume I have a “tiny” and “ignorant” mind when you so obviously lack the capacity and basis to assess me (pretending you know things is no substitute). At this level, you’re probably not going to achieve a fraction of what Mahbubani or other successful Indians have accomplished in their lifetimes… you possibly might not amount to much even as a lawyer (but you will likely rationalize it as contributing “within [your] own limits”). You’re just 22, it’s not too late for you to take a different path.

Remember, you were the one of those who repetitively challenged my views on the World Cup and Messi — and i have proved that bona fide great football minds agree with my views. There’s no point wasting my time on this unproductive discussion with you since it’s clear you’re more interested in having your big ego stroked… so quiet your ego now and think about what I said. Gotta go, bye, bye.


Ajet Says:

Dave:

I like this last post of yours, because here, instead of coming down heavily on me, you actually made your tone mild, and gave me some bonafide suggestions and good advice, with a softer tone, which i obviously liked. :D
that’s the way you should talk to a 22 year old like me. and, looking at your last post, i genuinely feel you want me to improve upon my current limited knowldege, which’s what actually a well-wisher would suggest me! you’re most welcome, and i hope i could make you happy someday by achieving something that i’ve set my sight on, and thereby, do something good for myself as well as for my people! :)
good end to a bad story of us. :)


Dave Says:

Ajet: my biggest suggestions for personal development is to (a) find a few mentors who are (at a level) able to add to your life and guide your development; and (b) find many different people in different fields from whom you are able to learn (whether directly in person or indirectly over the internet, etc). E.g., there is a huge load of information on Mahbubani and Lee Kuan and Singapore in their books, Mahbubani’s website and the youtube clips… it is a start as there are many others — choose those whose views are different from yours. And use that self-confidence: don’t be shy to eventually contact them and speak with them personally.
http://mahbubani.net/articles.html

You don’t have to be a politician to have impact on people. Gandhi wasn’t, and there are many other roles. If you do achieve something worthwhile to you or others, then it’s you and them who should be most happy… don’t worry about my happiness, though I appreciate the sentiment :)

I’m glad you chose well. Though it’s important remain curious and focus on learning…. instead of being distracted by “tone”/approach. We are each personally responsible for finding a way to learn so we can benefit and grow… others are not responsble for spoonfeeding us in a way we will like. Knowledge, wisdom and intelligence is relative between people (actor James Woods supposedly has an IQ of 180, go figure), though everybody’s knowledge and intelligence is ultimately limited to only a very tiny fraction of all knowledge in the world and in human history.

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