Congrats Rafa. Well deserved award. Your fans are very proud and hope you will return soon.

September 18th, 2012 at 4:04 am

Rafa may be #4 in the rankings atm, but he is the real #1 having the highest % of winning records against the top 4 and the top 10, leading the others by a mile.

Winning % against the top 4: Rafa – 63%, Roger – 47%, Nole – 45%, Andy – 42%.

Winning % against the top 10: Rafa – 70%, Roger – 64%, Nole – 55%, Andy – 52%.

So, if Rafa is the greatest of this era, how can Roger be the greatest of all time? It doesn’t add up, does it?

Come back soon, Rafa. There is no sparkle in tennis without you. I am tired of watching the under studies play the principal part because the lead actor is injured.

September 18th, 2012 at 4:15 am

@Everyone … opinion

Rafa is not the greatest of this era.
Exatly, it is only your opinion.
He had had the most shoked defeat in tennis history.
You chose statistic which suit you.
It seems that you forgot obout others…

September 18th, 2012 at 5:14 am

Rafa will go down as the greatest runner up in tennis.
His consec. ranked #2 streak is maybe the greatest of all sports for someone being a #2.
How can he be the greatest in a era where he was so long the #2?

September 18th, 2012 at 6:20 am

@ Max “he had the most shocked defeat in tennis history” . Not a shock really considering he was playing whilst injured !!

September 18th, 2012 at 7:24 am

@ Giles

With all the respect to you …Rafa is always injured when he badly losing, don’t you see that ?

If he was injured after French Open why he played in Halle???

I read his interview after match with Kohlshraiber (in Halle)and he said that everything was ok.
Then at Wimbledon he lost in second round to nr.100 player and … he is injured :-)

Don’t get me wrong … I respect Rafa and I think he is important for tennis but he is funny sometimes with his statements.

September 18th, 2012 at 7:54 am

Max. It is common knowledge that Rafa had MRI scans at the start or just before Wimbledon. The knee injury actually started towards the end of FO.

September 18th, 2012 at 8:00 am

Giles. It is common knowledge that Rafa had MRI scans after Indian Wells at every tournament he participated.

Halle is tournament after FO … why he played there ?

Is it smart play tennis with injury before (one week) Wimbledon?

Ok. I don’t want make bad things here and I wish him speed recovery truly.

September 18th, 2012 at 8:09 am

@Everyone

Maybe they should build him a clay hut for all his clay trophies. His percentages are badly skewed by his clay dominance so shut up

September 18th, 2012 at 8:40 am

So what if Rafa’s dominance is dueto his clay dominance. Roger’s slam count is due to too many hard court slams and the weak era. Clay is the most difficult surface to play on, you have to be very talented and fit to do well on it.

Yes, Rafa was injured after IW. He actually pulled out of Miami in the SF because of his knees. He was also injured after RG.

Rafa is a better player than Roger, but for his injuries he would have more slams.

September 18th, 2012 at 9:24 am

Rafa reminds me of Nole…wen tired he retired…Rafa never loses a metch unless he is ‘injured’

September 18th, 2012 at 9:32 am

“Rafa is a better player than Roger, but for his injuries he would have more slams.”

There is an obvious problem with this comment. Rafa’s injuries are a direct result of the huge pressure he puts on his body. He therefore takes very big risks. On balance, he is probably right to take those risks – a Rafa who didn’t play with his particular kind of intense energy would not have been anything like so successful, maybe he would have won no slams at all. His game can look surprisingly simple (imo) when he is not in full flight, in a way that isn’t true of the other top players. Nadal himself – so I have heard from commentators – regards himself as less talented than his immediate rivals, which is why he feel he needs to practise more.

It is reasonable to say then,on this view, that Rafa has maximised his chances. He still has the opportunity, of course, to overtake Federer. That remains to be seen; but if in the end he fails, he cannot logically attribute that to a succession of injuries.

September 18th, 2012 at 9:44 am

Rafa’s balding like hell if we are to take this picture serious. He looks like hispanic bowler out of the movie The big lebowski.
Who dances on hotel california by the gipsy kings.

Remember what he was called?

September 18th, 2012 at 10:07 am

Lets face the music. Rafa is the biggest overachiever in the history of tennis.

The man has won 2 non clay slams against an injured and wounded Fed and he was given another fast slams because some big anamoly in the time flux.

September 18th, 2012 at 10:27 am

grendel, it’s because of Rafa’s humility that he praises the others. Roger’s game sends me to sleep. When I watch tennis, I want action.

Every reasonable person will admit that Rafa is the one player that puts the icing on a tennis tournament.

September 18th, 2012 at 10:41 am

Sienna, why do you care so much about Rafa’s hair?

September 18th, 2012 at 10:43 am

Rafa is the greatest injured player of all time.

September 18th, 2012 at 10:52 am

@ EIETMY

You really take your moniker seriously, don’t you? Anybody who does not agree with your opinion can not be reasonable. It seems you visit tennis talk quite frequently. You should call yourself “Everyone is entitled ONLY to my opinion” ;)

September 18th, 2012 at 11:15 am

Polo,

LOL!

———

“Roger’s game sends me to sleep. When I watch tennis, I want action.”

What puts me to sleep is a 6 hour tennis match and 35 + seconds in between every point.

Feds game is like Disneyand fireworks, mixed with Michaelangelo’s paint brush on the tennis court. I am hypnotized and awestruck at the same time. Tennis at its finest.

September 18th, 2012 at 11:15 am

It’s like the commies said “the USO is like a football match without a ball” referring to Rafa’s absence. For me it certainly was a lack lustre GS.

September 18th, 2012 at 11:18 am

Polo. And that is because he has chronic tendenitis and now there are other complications. Without the injuries Rafa would certainly have matched Fed’s GS if not surpassed them. Get well soon Rafa!

September 18th, 2012 at 11:23 am

Roger has a chronic back problem which flares up every now and then. Without that, he would have won 40 majors. Every reasonable person will admit that;) Of course, Rafa would not lose a single point if he were not born injured and fatigued. Every reasonable person will admit that too;)

September 18th, 2012 at 11:31 am

“Without the injuries Rafa would certainly have matched Fed’s GS if not surpassed them”

I suppose it’s bad form to quote oneself, but I did make an argument above (at 9.44.a.m.) as to why I don’t think this kind of statement makes sense. It’s not a particularly original argument – but it is a sound one, I believe. To summarise: Rafa would never have got so many slams as he has had he not taken huge risks with his body and health. The converse of this is: had he not had the injuries, then he would not have played the incredibly intense game he has done(which is naturally productive of injury),and without this kind of intense game, he certainly would not have matched Fed’s haul in slams, possibly would have got none at all.

September 18th, 2012 at 11:32 am

So… after reading all this above it seems Rafa and his uncle are crazy !!! ( or stupid simply).

If he felt “something” in his knees in Indian Wells why the hell he played doubles ???

If he felt “something” in his knee after Miami why the hell he played in all clay tournaments ?

If he felt “something” in his knee after FO why the hell he played in Halle ???

You Rafa fans are biased and can’t stand that Rafa will be always nr 2.

You may always said “Without the injuries Rafa would certainly have matched Fed’s GS if not surpassed them” … Good luck.

September 18th, 2012 at 11:36 am

Seriously, cannot believe the injury excuse. Just stop it rafa fan, EIETYO…just accept it. He has had problems, he may return better, he may not. Who knows? It’s a lot of training in the making for a comeback though.

If anyone can do it, he can.

and to say the following:

Everyone is entitled to my opinion Says:
grendel, it’s because of Rafa’s humility that he praises the others. Roger’s game sends me to sleep. When I watch tennis, I want action.

You want some action? Go watch the millions of youtube links that show you Roger in flight. Full flight. Like no one has ever seen.

May be you should become a boxing fan. All the grunting really gets on my nerves. The time inbetween points is way too silly to be called anything other than”it should not be allowed”, but it is.

So if you don’t like Roger, then don’t watch him. Watch reruns if you miss rafa so much (I understand that), but there is no need to be so blindfolded.

Rafa isn’t the greateest. How can he be? Try to look at the facts and dont fudge them because you miss him.

I don’t understand the award for man of the year, I would have thought that would have gone to Murray.

Now I have re-read the article, I understand it was a spanish vanity fair, so that figures!

September 18th, 2012 at 11:43 am

grendel,

forgot to say, nice to see you back!

September 18th, 2012 at 11:43 am

@Everybody ….. opinion
He said that he “felt something” in february not after Indian Wells (march).

September 18th, 2012 at 11:51 am

skeezer Says:

“Feds game is like Disneyand fireworks, mixed with Michaelangelo’s paint brush on the tennis court. I am hypnotized and awestruck at the same time. Tennis at its finest.”

Except when Rafa his kicking him in the proverbial.

September 18th, 2012 at 11:56 am

Rafael Nadal: His Legacy Is Cemented Regardless of Latest Injury Outcome
By Matt Fitzgerald
(Featured Columnist) on September 13, 2012

“The world will never know how great Rafael Nadal could have been without the knee issues. To be matter-of-fact about it, his potential was somewhat staggering to fathom.

That is why the contorting, electrifying Spaniard with unprecedented topspin has already written his legacy in the sport of tennis, regardless of what happens in the latter part of his career.

It wouldn’t even be a sideways argument to assert that Nadal could have been the very greatest ever if not for his frequent knee troubles.

Think about it: who is considered the greatest champion in the history of the sport? Roger Federer.

Nadal’s career record against the Fed: 18-10, including 8-2 in Grand Slam action. Everyone knows that Nadal owns the all-time series lead, but what’s most impressive is not the fact that he has has beaten Federer, but rather the way he’s done it.”

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1333810-rafael-nadal-why-his-legacy-is-cemented-regardless-of-latest-injury-outcome?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=tennis

September 18th, 2012 at 12:01 pm

Everyone is entitled to my opinion says,

“Except when Rafa his kicking him in the proverbial.”

You mean like at this years IW? Oh wait…or is this another injury loss?

September 18th, 2012 at 12:05 pm

Number99 Says:

@Everybody ….. opinion
He said that he “felt something” in february not after Indian Wells (march).

Rafa actually pulled out of the Miami SF against Murray with knee injury AFTER IW. Go and check your facts.

September 18th, 2012 at 12:06 pm

madmax, I simply haven’t got the time or inclination to watch a video of Roger, not one jot. He bores me to tears.

September 18th, 2012 at 12:08 pm

@ Enerybody …. opinion

Yes, I know that but in his interview after Wimbledon he said that he “felt something” in february and since that moment he has “bad knee”

September 18th, 2012 at 12:11 pm

Number99 Says:

@ Enerybody …. opinion

Yes, I know that but in his interview after Wimbledon he said that he “felt something” in february and since that moment he has “bad knee”

So what? Does that mean he the injury did not get worse over time?

September 18th, 2012 at 12:16 pm

Congrats Rafa.Wish you a complete recovery.Hope that you will play atleast 6-7 years more at the highest level.Tennis needs Rafa.

September 18th, 2012 at 12:31 pm

Madmax. “I don’t understand the award for man of the year, I would have thought that would have gone to Murray”, then you realise it is Spanish vanity fair. Rafa was given this award for inter alia, his historic 7th French Open victory. So far as Murray is concerned the English vanity fair could have done the same but obviously didn’t think he was deserving of such an award. Well done Rafa!

September 18th, 2012 at 12:36 pm

For the uninnitiated -

U.S. Open seems a little flat without Rafael Nadal
BILL DWYRE
August 29, 2012

Weeks after he pulled out of the Olympics, Nadal is sitting out the Open because of a nagging injury. That’s a loss for the game, and for fans, who miss his power and aggression.

This year’s U.S. Open tennis tournament is a party without the balloons. They are serving cake with no frosting.

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/aug/29/sports/la-sp-dwyre-us-open-20120830

September 18th, 2012 at 12:38 pm

Congrats rafa- and get well soon!

September 18th, 2012 at 12:43 pm

madmax, watching Roger play tennis is as good as watching people knocking up in the park.

September 18th, 2012 at 12:44 pm

Apparently Rafa was also supposed to receive the Man of the year “Madrid Award”, but he could not attend the event because he had previously committed to attend the Vanity Fair Awards, so he recorded a message that was shown during the Gala. Well done Rafa, keep the awards coming! Get well soon!

September 18th, 2012 at 12:51 pm

@ Everybody … opinion

He should play less or at all… healing his knee.
Do you think playing doubles (additionally) when injured is good and normal?

But I want to explain samething.
I think Rafa is great Champion. I wish him speedy recovery and return to the top form.
He isn’t the greatest…. One of the greatest.

When I saw Open Ceremony at Olimpics and Djokovic carrying national flag I had tears in my eyes and …I was sad.
Becouse I thought about Rafa. I knew how much it means to him and how much he wanted to be there.
I want healthy Rafa.

I know that he has “something” with his knee but I’m sure that it is not exactly like he said and I’m sure that he is not 100% honest with us.

I think:
30% knee
30% confidence (after he lost to Rosol)
40% hurt ambition

…and he knows that he must reeeeeeeeest becouse he play like he play

September 18th, 2012 at 12:52 pm

Rafa is the man! Full stop. Also of the year.

September 18th, 2012 at 12:53 pm

Matt Fitzgerald may be a featured columnist (whatever that means) but that doesn’t mean he is thinking straight:“The world will never know how great Rafael Nadal could have been without the knee issues. To be matter-of-fact about it, his potential was somewhat staggering to fathom.”

You might as well say: the world will never know how great Federer could have been had he taken a calculated risk with his health, especially his back, by upping the pace of his serve to, say, 130 -133(a fast serve for Fed is 125-127). The greatness of Fed’s serve is to do with placement, spin, variety and change of pace. Add actual pace and it is at least plausible to suggest that he would have been virtually unbreakable, including by Nadal. Not always, of course, but maybe enough times to turn around the h2h.

This is speculation, and not worth much, but it is worth as much as the speculation of Giles, Everybody is entitled to my opinion and the columnist (featured) Matt Fitzgerald.

Nadal has taken grave risks with his health and, in terms of his ultimate legacy, this may have been justifiable. Let’s see how he feels about it when he’s 50 or so. But in the process, he has pushed his body beyond the limit. It’s irrelevant to wonder what might have happened had his body been stronger. You might just as well wonder: what if Federer’s single-handed bh had been better able to cope with the shoulder high bouncing ball, as Almagro’s is for instance. A person’s body and mind, their sets of skills and so on are as they are and all go towards making a person the player he is.

You can’t pick and choose from a player’s attributes and say:oh, if only such and such had been the case, and then attempt to deduce something meaningful from that. Like Nadal would have won more slams than Fed…..

September 18th, 2012 at 12:54 pm

So number99, Rafa loses to Rosol and he riskis losing his ranking by taking 6 months off? Does that mke sense to you?

Do you not think that the ATP has to be satisfied that he is legitimately injured to allow him to skip mandatory tournaments?

Are you serious?

September 18th, 2012 at 12:55 pm

“U.S. Open seems a little flat without Rafael Nadal”
BILL DWYRE

That most people will surely agree with. In particular, the Djokovic/Ferrer semi was weak, and Nadal was badly missed at that stage.

September 18th, 2012 at 12:58 pm

@ Everybody … opinion

“Officialy” Rafa is injured :-) and ATP must accept that :-)
Rafa lately said that he must think about his future not about ranking.

Rafa was number 2 when lost in second round to number 100 Rosol.
That fact is seen as most shoking defeat at GS history of tennis.
Knowing Rafa and his ego it wasn’t nice :-)

September 18th, 2012 at 1:08 pm

It doesn’t matter what you think. Rafa knows he was injured at Wimbledon, so whether you believe him or not is irrelevant.

September 18th, 2012 at 1:15 pm

@ Everyone … opinion

Ok.
Have a nice day.

Regards,

September 18th, 2012 at 1:21 pm

Skeezer—-You are so wrong. We don’t have an injury excuse for Indian Wells this year. I have a bunch of other excuses though—–personally I am blaming the wind and the rain, and he appeared out of sorts so I suspect he had a fight with either Tony or his girlfriend prior to the match!

Joking!

However, what confounds me about Rafa current injury is it just came out of nowhere, he played great, save one set, the entire french open. Great. Lets face it, the tournament result was never really in doubt from the Juan Monaco match on. Then he plays horrible in Halle, but we figure the transition from clay to grass, letdown after winning RG etc etc etc. Wimbledon, Plays terrible against Bellucci but seemed to be moving ok. Rosol, the fifth set can’t be blamed on his lack of movement, few would have survived the onslaught of winners I saw. Had the roof not closed, lets say he pulled out that fifth set. What would have happened? Would he have ultimately pulled out of the tournament if he went deep? I just don’t understand how you go from winning 4 tournaments in two months, looking so strong, to your career possibly being over without a dramatic/tramatic injury like Derrick Rose or something.

I mean, the Ferrer semi final and the Rosol loss are a month apart. I believe there has to have been a tear that was thought to be tendonitis or something. It seems just too dramatic.

I guess I just don’t really understand what happened.

September 18th, 2012 at 2:05 pm

@ Kimberly

Quite funny about the excuses :)

I agree about the dramatic turn of events. In fact, Rafa’s serve appeared quite scary in the Rosol match and had he survived that, he would have been very tough to beat in my opinion. Rosol’s freakish performance especially in the fifth set was just so unexpected. It was one MASSIVE upset for sure.

September 18th, 2012 at 2:15 pm

^ he had pain killing injections at the FO so I guess it all triggered off from there.

September 18th, 2012 at 2:31 pm

Rafa did his best not to blame injury or anything for his loss even if he knew himself that he wasn’t that fit. However, he went to see his doctor the very next day, I think, so he had been nursing an injury even if he didn’t know at the time what it was. Having his wisdom teeth, all 4 of them, taken out made the treatment for the knees ineffective because he was run down.

Anyone who wants to define Rafa’s career by that loss needs their heads examined. The same conversation went on after Rafa lost to Sod at RG in 2009.

September 18th, 2012 at 2:40 pm

Baghdatis used to make the point that anyone can beat anyone. It was actually quite a wise point. We’re so used to seeing Nadal battling back against Federer and other great players, and winning, that it doesn’t seem to make sense when out of the blue a Rosol or even a Soderling beats him. So people start rabbitting on about injury – as if every player isn’t generally nursing some kind of injury.

In fact there is no need to go for the injury theory. Very occasionally – just as Baghdatis said – a great champion is beaten, fair and square, by a lesser player. Upsets happen, always have, always will. Even to Nadal. Live with it, I suggest, it’s more dignified.

September 18th, 2012 at 2:50 pm

Grendel—he is out, missing play. Maybe he wasn’t injured in the match but got injured dancing in a restaurant? I’m not saying his injury caused the loss, even healthy I can’t see what he would have done to beat the onslaught of winners from Rosel, but the fact is he is not playing tennis.

September 18th, 2012 at 3:08 pm

http://sphotos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/533565_10151111090576026_829718060_n.jpg. Rafa enjoying the footy in Madrid!

September 18th, 2012 at 3:19 pm

Everyone is entitled to my opinion

Face it Rafa is a loser. He is scared to play tennis. He ducked 5 or 6 early exits in the last tourneys.
There is no injury. It is well documented and proven that he is not injured.

Roger is already turning the h2h remember he is 2out of the last 3 meetings. If Rafa has the balls to ever step on a tennis court again and if he has the means to reach the latter part of the tourneys Roger will get mideaval on his ars. So you can have a good look at it.

Rafa is a pokerstar not a tennisplayer.

September 18th, 2012 at 3:25 pm

Rosol imo would have beaten anyone that day. Fed was laughing how ridiculous it was( and not in a bad way ). I agree. Happy Fed wasn’t playing Rosol that day…..

K,

There is no doubt Rafa has a history of being injured. Its obvious. But its how he uses his injury excuse card in his tennis that is confusing.

I have looked high and low through pre Wimby transcripts by Rafa and cannot find him saying he was not 100%. However there is a strong pattern of him is saying he is injured well AFTER losses.

I am confused and perpexed abut it all also, and is one of the reasons I can’t get behind the guy.

Regardless, he is a stud (with the Ladies ), so if that attracts them to watch tennis, its a good thing for the sport, no? Just have concerns of how the sport is represented on the playing field. My imo.

I do sincerely hope he makes it back, Tennis is slightly mis-colored without him.

September 18th, 2012 at 3:55 pm

Is it true that Verdasco was runner-up for Man of the Year in Spain by Vanity Fair? Nadal would probably win it again next year. Unless Verdasco wins a match then it would get really close.

September 18th, 2012 at 3:57 pm

Sienna, Roger can get lucky against Rafa in a best of 3 but he can’t beat Rafa in a 5 setter.

Rafa has never said he lost at Wimbledon because of injury. Federer is the one who always makes excuses for his losses. Instead od accusing Rafa of making excuses, perhaps you should take a look at your idol’s penchant for being a bad loser and making excuses.

All Federer fans, take a look at this:

Roger Federer Piles on the Excuses After Wimbledon 2010 Loss
By
Sam Haddad
(Correspondent) on June 30, 2010

Roger Federer is no stranger to making excuses to cover losses to his rivals.

Months after losing to Novak Djokovic at the Australian Open in 2008, he said he was ill throughout the match.

After losing to Nadal at Wimbledon in the same year, he blamed the lack of light that occurred towards the end of that match.

After losing to the same player at last year’s Australian Open, he said the better player does not necessarily win a five-set match, with the last set being all about momentum.

Federer blamed the wind for another loss to Djokovic in Miami in 2009, never once mentioning this player’s achievement.

As he loses more and more matches, one character flaw is becoming apparent: Federer is a sore loser.

He seems gracious when he leaves the court after a defeat. But when interviewed afterwards, he rarely praises his opponent’s game, rather laying blame on certain factors like the weather or a physical disability.

Federer’s interview after his loss to Berdych, however, was in a league of its own. It certainly surpasses all other news conferences in which he has engaged, with regards to the sheer number of excuses dished out by the Swiss.

Several times in the interview, he mentioned that he was struggling during the match. When asked to explain his losses to some of the tour’s bigger hitters, he said, “if I’m healthy I can handle those guys.” He mentioned a stiff back and a sore leg.

In fact, Federer mentioned everything but the fact that his opponent was simply better on that day.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/413685-federer-piles-on-the-excuses-after-wimbledon-loss

September 18th, 2012 at 4:21 pm

I think although they are such great players,they and their fans have a hard time sometimes having to stomach the idea that maybe just maybe its possible that the better player won on the day,IE Rafa lost to Rosol at Wimby because he was beaten by the better player and not because he was injured,Roger lost to Rafa at wimby because he also was beaten by a better player not because he had mono,you win some you loose some,it is what it is,you cant change whats already been and gone,and no amount of excuses can alter whats in the past,it just suits some posters to believe what they want to believe rather than facing upto reality.

September 18th, 2012 at 5:12 pm

Everyone here knows Bleacher Report is the Tabloid of Tennis. If you are a Rafa hater, you can find plenty of “Stuff” there also on the man. Unreliable and speculative.

September 18th, 2012 at 6:11 pm

All champions are sore losers. Some let this be seen in public and Federer, rather endearingly, has belonged to this class – though he seems to be tidying up his act, these days. Others are rather more aware of PR. So they’re nice and sweet to the camera and kick the cat when they get home. Judging by some of the naive utterances in this thread, the PR boys know what they’re doing.

September 18th, 2012 at 6:21 pm

very well said skeeze!

and to add to it, I’m not the least bit surprised by the age rafanatic theories of ”only rafa having the right to make excuses in a clever way” n ”every fact that fed says about himself must called as an excuse for his loss”.

and moreover there’e many reasons why nadal not the greatest like

1.the slowin of courts favoured nadal

2.he only won after fed lost his form n confidence trigerred by mono. if loss of valuable practice time hadn’t happended, the loss of form n confidence hadn’t happend; if loss of form and confidenc hadn’t happened, RG 08 hadn’t happened even thou rafa woulda won the match, and if RG 08 hadn’t happened, fed woulda won wimby again in 08. it’s noteworthy how crappy fed was palyin in wimby 08, by his standards, n yet nadal almost lost

3.nadal was lucky to face a five year older rival

4.rafa obviously can’t do much damage to the same-aged rivals if they play their best in HC or Grass

5.Rafa is average indoor player

6.rafa hasn’t wonsome mportant titles on HC/indoor and the

list goes on…

and it was an embarassment to see nadal shakin in his boots whil facin the 2011 nole, even on clay, lol ;)

September 18th, 2012 at 6:26 pm

federer is the best and nadal does not deserve it

September 18th, 2012 at 9:56 pm

Huh,
Good points!

September 19th, 2012 at 12:08 am

grendel

..kick the cat when they get home.

Lol….

September 19th, 2012 at 12:10 am

So let’s stop the Rafa bashing and name calling because as has been shown, Federer is a master at making excuses and is well known for being a bad loser.

September 19th, 2012 at 2:55 am

Everyone is entitled to my opinion Says:
So let’s stop the Rafa bashing and name calling because as has been shown, Federer is a master at making excuses and is well known for being a bad loser.

But I do not mind Fed being a bad loser. I would be devastated if he would accept defeat and rol over like a puppy.

But and take good care in trying to get a grip on reality and understand what I am saying.

Fed wil find excuses for his losses but he never will try to trick an opponent during match, he never will stole time, he never will take fake MTO, he never will bump into an opponent. He never will call out an umpire for his opponent who is just trying to receive a service.

What he will do is make a stand for himself. Like when opponent is taking 45 seconds to call een hawkeye replay! 99.9 % of the time he uses hawkey as it is supposed tot. Never looking up or trying to gain a point by using it in a unfair matter.

Those are pretty good measurements of the Champion and they also show the lack of within RAFA. Who clearly uses all those sitething to try and gain advantage over his opponents…

September 19th, 2012 at 4:20 am

Huh. Did you actually see Rafa shaking in his boots or was it just a mirage??

September 19th, 2012 at 4:47 am

What this means? You no haven’t considered me for the greatest players in this era?

September 19th, 2012 at 8:07 am

Nadal sucks! Nadal just wants to make money from publicity. He just doesn’t want to play tennis. He always gives this “not ready to compete” excuse. NADAL SUCKS! Nole has always been a much better player than Nadal. Nole has never quit from a match. Nadal refuses to say when he’ll play tennis again because he does not want to play! Nadal just wants to make money, and he wants publicty! SHAME ON NADAL! Nole is the best player!!!!!

September 19th, 2012 at 8:37 am

“let’s stop the Rafa bashing”

You mean the Fed bashing you started? Right?

You created your own mess.

September 19th, 2012 at 8:42 am

Laura Robson serving for the match against Zheng Jie. 6-3, 5-1, 15-40

September 19th, 2012 at 9:34 am

30-40 now

September 19th, 2012 at 9:34 am

Deuce

September 19th, 2012 at 9:35 am

match point

September 19th, 2012 at 9:35 am

40-40

September 19th, 2012 at 9:36 am

advantage Zheng

September 19th, 2012 at 9:36 am

game Zheng. She now serves at 2-5. Oh, well. Be a good test of Robson’s nerves.

September 19th, 2012 at 9:37 am

Nadal won’t be in WINNING mode at the slams until mid-2013. You heard it here first. Might as well not play the AO, which will be won by Murray anyway. Nadal should come back during the SA clay season.

September 19th, 2012 at 9:41 am

Zheng holds to love. We always knew she was gritty. One break back. If Laura holds, she wins. She has a reputation for being composed. Let us see. I don’t feel at all composed.

September 19th, 2012 at 9:42 am

Laura 30-0. Looking good? Hmmm!

September 19th, 2012 at 9:42 am

Exactly. 30-15. Calamity looming?

September 19th, 2012 at 9:43 am

30-30. Oh, well – isn’t that just what you expected?

September 19th, 2012 at 9:44 am

Match point – on her serve! But come to think of it – so what? The gremlins are around.

September 19th, 2012 at 9:44 am

By George (as Rex Harrison said in My Fair Lady) She’s done it!

September 19th, 2012 at 9:45 am

@Sienna

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6H9-bj7vb8

September 19th, 2012 at 9:48 am

@Sienna

Yes. Nadal is the biggest overachiever in tennis. Even more than Agassi…

September 19th, 2012 at 9:51 am

Wish I could have watched this match. Zheng Jie is a very good player, with a wonderful bh, 22 in the world but, like Goffin, will probably never get to the top on purely biological grounds. Even so, an excellent test for Laura Robson following her US Open adventures. Very encouraging that she has come through in such an apparently convincing manner (and the one hiccup actually turned out well – good experience) and really, one can see no limits to this young woman’s progress.

September 19th, 2012 at 9:52 am

Nadal barely won once at USO/AO like Agassi who barely won once at FO/Wimbledon. Both also won twice at their second best slam, USO for Agassi and Wimbledon for Nadal. Agassi won 4 times at his best slam but he never even played at the AO before 1995. Nadal has won 7 times at his best slam and might win 1 more RG in a very long 5 setter final where he will barely beat Djokovic next year. But everybody is a hardcourter now which helped Nadal overachieve at the FO…

September 19th, 2012 at 10:06 am

Next up for Robson is Shuai Peng – a solid player who once swept Kim Clijsters away. Now that Bartoli has unfortunately been forced to withdraw, the highest ranking player left is Cirstea at 30. The other remaining players are in the 30s and 40s. But actually, this is perfect competition for Laura Robson. She can’t spend her whole time playing former grand slam champions, and she needs to get in among the top 50 and prove that she can live there easily. She broke Zheng 3 times in the first set, but still only won 6-3 – which means her own serve must have been very fallible. It’s potentially a great weapon, though – she needs to hone it in the fire of competition. Once she’s got that sorted – top 5, look out.

September 19th, 2012 at 10:20 am

skeezer Says:
“let’s stop the Rafa bashing”

“You mean the Fed bashing you started? Right?
You created your own mess.”

Mess? What mess? I just wanted to give Rogerfans a taste of their own medicine.

I have been reading tennis-x for years but chose not to post often because of the bile and hatred poured over a great player like Nadal, as if that affects his greatness or his standing in the world of sport. Sienna is always going on about Rafa losing his hair and predicting his baldness, ad infinitum. There is a lot more going for Rafa than just his hair, for pits’ sake.

September 19th, 2012 at 11:45 am

Its funny when you hear someone trying to make a solid factual argument, to prove there player, is the best. And yet you hear words like lucky, injury, he went to see a doctor the next day…are you kidding me!

It sounds like a kid that needs a doctor’s note for when he goes back to school.

Wisdom teeth?

You can’t be serious.

Whats it gonna be next?

Eietmo,

Sorry but your argument are nothing but weak-sauce.

Oh wait, you banged your foot this morning when you got out of bed or did you forget to floss?

No worries, you can visit the doctor and get a note. That will explain your crappy posts and you can use the note for future excuse making.

September 19th, 2012 at 11:59 am

No one ia greater than Rafa. Roger doesn’t come near him in strength, energy, bombastic verve and joy. Roger is a dull old man. Rafa is a God. Long Live Rafa, Roger be gone. Sandy A.

September 19th, 2012 at 12:56 pm

I like Nadal and I think he brings something great to the game with his tenacity, left-handed play, and heavy topspin. But whenever GOAT conversations arise Nadal fans seem to conveniently forget two points, always: (1) fitness, health, and consistency are part of being a great tennis player and (2) consistent greatness on all surfaces is part of being a GOAT.

You might say that he got dealt a bad hand genetically, but every player has strengths and weaknesses. With this awareness, if Nadal had managed his career more like, for example, Serena Williams (playing to peak at Slams) then he might have more GS titles. Or maybe he could have adjusted his training somehow. Or, most pointedly, adapted a style of play more similar to how he played at the US Open he won–bigger serve, flatter ground strokes, a little more net play. If Nadal made that adaptation he’d regularly have shorter points.

As to the second point: The consistency of Fed on all surfaces relative to Nadal is what skewed the head-to-head. Federer was present in more clay finals (and semifinals), while Nadal was only a real rival to Fed’s hard court and grass court dominance for a couple seasons. This inevitably skewed the numbers, and you can’t rationally deny that. Fed held up his end of the rivalry more by simply always being there, and his remarkable streak of finals, semifinals, and quarterfinals attests to that.

September 19th, 2012 at 2:14 pm

Sandy Aptecker Says:

“No one ia greater than Rafa. Roger doesn’t come near him in strength, energy, bombastic verve and joy. Roger is a dull old man. Rafa is a God. Long Live Rafa, Roger be gone. Sandy A.”

Spot on!

September 19th, 2012 at 2:16 pm

Only me is entitled to my opinion,

Re -read 11:59 post from that poster.

Then re-read again.

Repeat, until cured.

September 19th, 2012 at 2:40 pm

“Rafa is a God”

Errr….no comment.

____________________________________

“Fed held up his end of the rivalry more by simply always being there”.

Exactly. Part of the game. History doesn’t care if you were hurt, dinged, injured. You can’t make records and wins if you can’t play.

If”s are for wannabes that come up with false reasoning to justify there place among the greats.

September 19th, 2012 at 2:48 pm

Stefannski im a Rafa fan,and i think your post makes perfect sense,i would have loved to have seen him carry on playing that style that won him the USO,flattening out the groundstrokes,more net play,shorter points,and he used a heavier raquet that gave him more pop on his serve,however that serve also injured his shoulder and unfortunatly he was not the same player after that,the stats were good also that year and he didnt loose serve much either if i remember rightly(wonder if Grendel knows),and only lost one set to Nole in the final,would it have made any difference if he had carried on with that style of play who knows?anyway as a fan im more than delighted that Rafa has what he has,Rogers the greatest ever and ive never had a problem with that.

September 19th, 2012 at 2:57 pm

hehe

It seems like the posters from TT are here to cause some trouble. I reckognize some idioms or mantras they are portraying. Also their interaction is alike.

I also noticed that it is like a ghost place over there. Hardly any reactions are given on the articles.
So in bordom with Rafa out they come here to play.

September 19th, 2012 at 3:03 pm

http://www.sportpulse.net/ Nice article here for Rafa fans.

September 19th, 2012 at 3:07 pm

Giles,

Not a big Rafa fan, but that’s was a good read for anyone interested in the Game. Good stuff. Thanks for sharing that.

September 19th, 2012 at 3:18 pm

@ skeezer. Cheers.

September 19th, 2012 at 3:25 pm

There was a nice article – about tennis and the mind in that little collection from Giles’link. But in the article on Nadal, once again we had this mythmaking:”It wouldn’t even be a sideways argument to assert that Nadal could have been the very greatest ever if not for his frequent knee troubles.”

Look, by the time Nadal retires, possibly he will have accrued the greatest slam record, although that’s unlikely. But if he does, he will get the credit he deserves.

But he can’t get that by sneaking through the back door. To repeat for the umpteenth time, Nadal’s injuries form an integral part of his game. He plays a certain way which gains him great success – but at a cost, namely:injury. If he didn’t play in that particularly intense and muscular way, then he wouldn’t have the injury problems, but he wouldn’t have won nearly so much either.

That’s the deal.

Injury, grandslams; non-injury, no grandslams.

That’s how it works.

It is understandable that in a harsh world, people want their hero to have both choccies AND flowers. But part of growing up is facing reality, and understanding that that is not on offer. It is one or or the other, not both.

That is nature’s deal.

September 19th, 2012 at 3:54 pm

grendel,

You are ( as usual ) more astute than me, I just read ” about tennis and the mind ” and didn’t know there was another article on Rafa there. The article I read mentions Rafa, but was more on the title of the subject than the man.

September 19th, 2012 at 4:28 pm

I just find John’s post at 11.59 a little bit childish and unrealistic. Roger’s fans think that only they are entitled to qualify Rafa’s dominance of Roger because of mono etc. but cannot accept extraneous circumstances for anyone else.

Rafa still owns Roger. No ifs no buts. Rafa is a more talented and watchable player than Federer.

September 19th, 2012 at 4:51 pm

alison, as often you give me credit I can’t claim to. I have no systematic statistical knowledge of anything really in tennis – I have more what you might call quirky knowledge, based largely on memory. Different people have different strengths. Someone like Dave might have the knowledge you want, or perhaps a knowledgeable rafa fan like Brando, certainly Voicemail1 – but he doesn’t post here any more. I can only go on common sense, which you yourself have in abundance. As you rightly say, Nadal’s fast serve when he won US Open apparently resulted in shoulder injury. At any rate it was abandonned. Perhaps a certain style of play was lost with it. After all, he got the reward he wanted – the US Open title. Perhaps he relaxed after that into the style of play he was more at home with. Only natural.

September 19th, 2012 at 4:52 pm

“Rafa is a more talented and watchable player than Federer.”

The second proposition – “more watchable” is completely subjective. Some people prefer Roddick, others Ferrer, then there’s Nalbandian – get the idea? Not about two players.

First proposition:”more talented”. There is an element of the subjective here, but not too much. If you take Federer’s game, stroke for stroke, and compare to Nadal’s: well, I would be content to leave the judgement for which overall is more suggestive of talent or even genius to, say, Uncle Toni. He understands the relative strengths of the two players as well as anybody.

A much more difficult comparison, I’d say, would be between Federer and Safin at his best.

September 19th, 2012 at 5:00 pm

“Roger’s fans think that only they are entitled to qualify Rafa’s dominance of Roger because of mono..”

This is not a true statement, maybe by one fan, but not his legion. Federer fans don’t need excuses. He did not find excuses on his way to 17 Slams. He earned them. He is by far the best of this era or any era. You can opinionate delusional love thoughts all you want and hug hard onto Rafa’s win’s over Roger to make a mini claim. For the umpteenth time, H2H does not maje the record books, and Tennis”s format requires that you play against a field of players. Whoever wins consistently over the field wins Tennis tournaments, Titles, and Slams . Having a better record against 1 guy is not gonna make u the better “Tennis player”. If that is the case Rafa is but a shadow of Novaks superioirity this past year overall.

September 19th, 2012 at 5:59 pm

Rafa is Better. No Roger is Better. No Nole is Better. You all sound like school children on the playground arguing. Can we not all agree that all 3 players are GREAT tennis players and any one of them can beat the other on any given day. Just enjoy the matches and stop with this nonsense. Sheesh.

September 19th, 2012 at 8:19 pm

@womenfly

Yes all 3 are great, but Fed is GOAT……. not hard to argue the facts.

Schoolyard tactic starts with posters like EIETMO. Spitting on Fed and trying to make a claim that Rafa Is the greatest of this era is laughable. Rafa has claimed Fed the best ever and now, Rafa, in his prime, and unable to play. WTF?

This was a thread about Rafa, fair enough. He is Vanity Fairs man and Ladies wet dreams. But spitting on Fed to make Rafa some “God” is unacceptable. The world knows who is the best ever and respect should be given, not make up “if” Fairy tales so there Love God has accomplishments comparable to the best ever.

September 19th, 2012 at 9:48 pm

@ skeezer

I think who is the GOAT is in the eyes of the beholder firstly, and secondly, greatest of all time presumes no one will ever be greater than Fed, ever. I think that’s a huge presumption and probably not true, but that remains to be seen in future generations of tennis players.

My point is, everyone is entitled to their opinion, including you and EIETMO. You two differ and that’s fine. My opinion is that on any given day, any of the top 4 can beat each other, on any surface. But this senseless bickering is annoying and childish. Opinions are just that, and can be stated in a non offensive, mature way. :-)

September 19th, 2012 at 10:19 pm

ok..firstly..have u guys read RAFA..where rafa says federer was born to play tennis?I believe that.how can any player compete with that..any player playing in the last decade or so is unfortunate that they play alongside the one man who is perfectly designed to play tennis…and rafa is also competing against him..that he can match roger to this extent is a huge tribute to his determination,will power and never-say-die attitude..im a huge rafa fan but i have immense respect for roger..that man plays like is creating a work of art..who cant appreciate that?they are both greats..guys who sustained year after year in a gruelling schedule..and lets hope they can lay on a little longer…we live in the best era of tennis ever

September 19th, 2012 at 11:02 pm

Someone said, “Rafa is a more talented and watchable player than Federer.”

How can Rafa be more watchable when we can’t even see him play?

September 19th, 2012 at 11:43 pm

Polo,
Your recent posts have been pure Gold ;)

———————

@womenfly

Its obvious you types Love Rafa”s hot bod no matter what. Just come out of the closet already. If he played Bocce ball he would be the best ever in your eyes.

17 Slams is not an opinion nor Feds all time record. Its a hard fact. So is Nole’s 7 consecutive final wins over Rafa, an all time record embarrasment. You, along with other Rafa loves, want to say Feds records is currently “temporary”. Then Rafa’s accomplishments are the same, “temporary” . Sorry to dissapoint, but Feds wiki stats surpasses not only this era, but all time. And he is STILL not done at 31! You see you types twist the moment for your pleasure, but today and until further notice, Fed is all time GS the holder and #1 in the world. When was the last time Fed was #4 in the world? Look that one up. Wake up and smell the Fed rose, its red, and it smells “Winner”.

September 19th, 2012 at 11:58 pm

Federer’s game does nothing for me whatsoever. Nothing any of his followers say will convince me otherwise. I just don’t get all this artistry and elegance in his game. Tennis is a sport for goodness sake.

Why should just stating the facts that Rafa’s winning % over the top 4 and top 10 far out weighs those of the other top 4? Those are the facts. Live with it.

Here they are again

Winning % against the top 4: Rafa – 63%, Roger – 47%, Nole – 45%, Andy – 42%.

Winning % against the top 10: Rafa – 70%, Roger – 64%, Nole – 55%, Andy – 52%.

September 20th, 2012 at 2:10 am

To be the GOAT, you have to dominate on ALL surfaces.

September 20th, 2012 at 2:11 am

blah blah blah

September 20th, 2012 at 2:24 am

Polo Says:

Someone said, “Rafa is a more talented and watchable player than Federer.”
How can Rafa be more watchable when we can’t even see him play?

That is why he is missed so much when he is not playing, as Bill Dywre puts it the

“U.S. Open seems a little flat without Rafael Nadal

This year’s U.S. Open tennis tournament is a party without the balloons. They are serving cake with no frosting.

Much of the game around him, and across the net from him, is vanilla. Nadal’s game is chocolate strawberry pistachio, an abundance of flavor that has become an acquired taste for tennis fans.”

September 20th, 2012 at 2:37 am

rafa hasn’t dominated anybody on any surface except clay. so get over it! and good grief about not enjoyin federer’s game, most of the others do!

skeeze

good replies to womenfly n EIETMO! hope they’re able to see the facts instead of puttin anti-fed glasses all the time!

September 20th, 2012 at 3:41 am

EIETMO. 2.37 am Great post

September 20th, 2012 at 3:44 am

This is an article about Rafa Nadal, another player doesn’t care.

September 20th, 2012 at 3:58 am

Totally agree with Womenfly at 10.19 pm. Opinions should be stated in a non offensive way.

September 20th, 2012 at 4:18 am

Huh Says:

“rafa hasn’t dominated anybody on any surface except clay.”

At least there is no argument that Rafa has dominated on clay, no one can say Roger has dominated on any surface.

September 20th, 2012 at 4:23 am

“(1)Federer’s game does nothing for me whatsoever. (2)Nothing any of his followers say will convince me otherwise.(3) I just don’t get all this artistry and elegance in his game.(4) Tennis is a sport for goodness sake.” (EITMO)

(1) Excellent. We are talking about taste, here – and can you imagine a world where everyone has the same taste? Not a world I’d want to live in.

(2) Also excellent [see response to (1)]. Note:these statements of preference are made publicly, and therefore call for correction where necessary. No attempt, of course, is made to convince the author of such corrections. Apart from being impossible, it is also undesireable (see responses to (1) and (2).

(3)Here, we wander into the subjective realm of taste, again. Therefore, once more, my inclination is to say:”excellent!”. To clarify by illustration from another field: I happen to admire the poet B####. Johnson over here can’t stand B####. I say: excellent. Who wants a world in which everyone adores B####? One might add parenthetically here, with a quick glance over the shoulder, that to find oneself in agreement with Johnson would be quite frankly something of an embarrassment. But that is by the way.

(4) Now we get to the nub. Here, an attempt at definition is made, and it is woefully inadequate. Wrong, in fact. For sport is a spectacle. It is therefore designed to be entertaining. What is art? Vast tomes have been written on this subject (mostly to keep the professors out of the dole queue), but whilst there will never be consensus, these days most sensible people agree that if art is not in some sense entertaining, it has failed to communicate and has therefore failed. So there is one crucial overlap between sport and art.

What are the ingredients of entertainment? Again, whilst of course there is not identity (for instance, art is NOT meant to be competitive, even if artists usually are, whilst sport IS) there is overlap between art and sport. To cut a long story short, aesthetic pleasure is taken in the production of patterns and the flow of movement. That is common to sport and art.

And all people who genuinely enjoy sport feel this aesthetic pleasure (among other things, of course, including tribal hatreds). Nadal is not excluded from the feast. On the contrary, he presents a magnificent spectacle. A very different one from Federer, however.

And that is all we are saying. Federer and Nadal represent different poles of artistic and sporting endeavour, and on the whole, it is not to be expected that those who enjoy the one will enjoy the other. And in any case, this business of enjoyment is complicated by the aspect of sport which is absolutely not artistic. Because once you identify with a hero, it is very hard to be fair to another hero who threatens his dominance. That can’t be helped. But talking nonsense can.

September 20th, 2012 at 7:11 am

Personally i think its a matter of opinion,as to whos the most talented,has the most watchable game,more watchable doesnt necassarily mean more talented,and more talented doesnt necassarily mean more watchable,Rafas my favorite but i will admit Rogers more talented due to the effortless style of play,and the way he makes the game look so easy,personally i prefer Rafas style his fighting qualities and the never say die attitude,and i also have the emotional investment in Rafa,although i enjoy watching Roger i dont have the emotional investment that i have when watching Rafa,both are fantastic players in their own unique ways,and both are very watchable in their own unique ways,but both are very different players its a matter of preferance JMO.

September 20th, 2012 at 7:16 am

@grendel and everyone else who keeps bringing up Rafa’s injury “excuses”. Here are the facts. His injury problems are a result of his just taking to the court to compete. Not his style of play as much as the fact he is playing at all. Something he was told he wouldn’t be able to do at all because of a congenital foot problem that had him considering a change of career to golf because of how unbearably painful it made playing tennis. Until a 2nd medical opinion told him he could play with a customised orthopedic shoe, BUT, the payoff of this would be undue pressure on his knees and back. The physical deck has been stacked against him from the very beginning; he has been living in the professional tennis world on borrowed time all along. Nobody takes this into consideration when blaming his injury problems on him. So yes, the ‘what if’ question is quite vaild

September 20th, 2012 at 7:21 am

As so often, alison, you get to the nub of the matter, weaving through the obstacles and logjams without fuss.

September 20th, 2012 at 7:22 am

@Lenny

If what you say is true – and I imagine there are qualifications – you have presented a remarkable case.

It will sound harsh, but it is nevertheless, strictly speaking, irrelevant. For it is not a matter of excuses in the slightest. It is a matter of logic. Whatever the base from which Nadal starts, the fact remains that his style is conducive to injury – further injury if you prefer. But that style is also a condition of his success. Therefore, you have a clash of priorities. Lessen the intensity of the style, and you help on the injury front but obstruct the likelihood of success.

The what if thing is not valid. What if Federer increased his service speed by 7 or 8 m.p.h., rendering his serve even more lethal than Sampras’ – unfortunately, there would be a cost: namely, back injury.

And so on.

September 20th, 2012 at 7:33 am

And come to think of it, there is another,and on the face of it surprising, area in which the “what if” scenario falls down.

It might be that just because of the appalling injuries Lenny describes that Nadal developed his notorious fighting spirit. If Lenny is correct, it will have taken a huge application of will power to surmount the obstacles and play tennis professionally. Obviously this will power will have been of inestimable value in Nadal’s career – and so it has proved.

In other words, without the shocking obstacles to radically impinge upon Nadal’s mind set, he would have been a much less formidable player.

Do we know this to be true? No, of course not, but it is a perfectly plausible scenario, and no doubt there are others too.

This is why it is no good going in for the “what if” business – and in fact it is just then that you start to fall into the quagmire of excuses.

September 20th, 2012 at 7:59 am

Well, well – Laura Robson 5-1 against Peng Shuai with set point. Score now? 5-5 deuce on Peng’s serve.
Now this sounds more familiar to a Brit….

September 20th, 2012 at 8:01 am

Everyone is entitled to my opinion Says:
madmax, I simply haven’t got the time or inclination to watch a video of Roger, not one jot. He bores me to tears.

September 18th, 2012 at 12:08 pm

Are you bored with your life?

also,

A bit of advice about all this rubbish you are posting about Federer. Bleacher report, correspondents? These are not tennis experts, but people who choose to write on a forum about their favourite, or their non-favourite. It is absolutely obvious that the people whose links you are posting detest Roger. Why? Why do people detest the opposing player?

It can only be one thing. Jealousy. That will not go away….you need to work on your own reasons why you enjoy the plight of others. On the way hand you expect people to show more empathy towards Rafa and his situation, and yet, on the other, you degrade Federer’s accomplishments.

You are the one who is boring and repetitive.

I for one, think that once you go onto the tennis court, you make the decision that you are fit and healthy to play..whether you have a few niggles here and there, is the price you play for being at the top of the game…but just don’t go on about it when you have an injury. No one can argue that rafa does that a lot. A lot, so much that he loses the credibility and that’s just the way it is.

If he played by the rules of the game with the ball bouncing, stopped going on about his injuries and his knees…and just got on with it, he would have so much more respect not only from tennis fans but from players themselves who have stated that the injury time outs are just disruptive for the game and the opponent.

September 20th, 2012 at 8:10 am

Everyone is entitled to my opinion Says:
Huh Says:

“rafa hasn’t dominated anybody on any surface except clay.”

At least there is no argument that Rafa has dominated on clay, no one can say Roger has dominated on any surface.

September 20th, 2012 at 4:23 am

You are right…Roger has dominated ON ALL SURFACES…save for clay and that APPLIES TO EVERYONE ELSE…

Thanks for bringing that to everyone’s attention.

To be in the strongest, most powerful era ever and to dominate on all surfaces, just shows how magnificent the might of the fed is.

Nice one.

September 20th, 2012 at 8:14 am

Well, after all, Laura wins 1st set 7-5. 2-2 in the 2nd. Even so, this is true Henman/Murray territory – “welcome to Murray land” says the commentator, meaning that Murray is in the process of turning what looked like an easy victory into possible defeat. And here, Murray was merely following in the footsteps of the master, Henman. Is Robson, then, to be the latest recruit to this tradition of anguish? God, I hope not.

September 20th, 2012 at 8:32 am

alison Says:
Personally i think its a matter of opinion,as to whos the most talented,has the most watchable game,more watchable doesnt necassarily mean more talented,and more talented doesnt necassarily mean more watchable,Rafas my favorite …..

What you think is irrelevant because whatever you think is wrong. That is a fact and not an opinion. Watchability of a player is not a subjective measurement. It is not up to you if Roger style is the most enjoyable to watch. It is a fact.

The reason you think it’s not is because of youre hatred towards the Mighty and your funloving itch towards Rafa.

September 20th, 2012 at 8:34 am

Laura 3-2, and serving. I’m off. I can’t bear it. Robson breaking forms part of a new logical construction. If Robson breaks….then Robson will be broken….This edict has been sanctified by the holy duo of Henman and Murray and can only be overturned at grave risk to the stability of the universe….

I’m off….

September 20th, 2012 at 8:39 am

Just to say that the edict has been confirmed, Robson has been broken, the score is 3-3, the stability of the universe is therefore secure, but I don’t care about the universe and am livid, and therefore really am off.

September 20th, 2012 at 8:41 am

The pinch hitters have all come out to bat for Rafa since he stopped playing. At least Federer hits for himself.

September 20th, 2012 at 9:14 am

^no hits, plenty of strike outs. Score?…… 17-11.

September 20th, 2012 at 9:39 am

Everyone is entitled to my opinion Says: “…as Bill Dywre puts it…“U.S. Open seems a little flat without Rafael Nadal”…This year’s U.S. Open tennis tournament is a party without the balloons. They are serving cake with no frosting.”

It did not feel that way to me and to a majority of tennis fans who don’t fancy a phantom player. In fact, Nadal was news only at the start of the tournament but was quickly forgotten as the tournament went on. This is not just my opinion, unlike Bill Dwyer, I have facts to back me up.

Read this news: http://www.atpworldtour.com/News/Tennis/2012/09/Feature/US-Open-Reaches-Millions-Of-Fans.aspx

To summarize what it said: The 2012 US Open, driven by two of the most compelling singles finals in the tournament’s 131 years, was one of the most successful years in the tournament’s history. The men’s five-set thriller, in which Andy Murray captured his first Grand Slam victory by defeating Novak Djokovic, was seen by 16.2 million viewers on CBS Sports — the most viewers to watch a men’s singles final since 2007.

September 20th, 2012 at 9:39 am

^for the pinch hitters

September 20th, 2012 at 9:40 am

Yes, but if Rafa was there the viewership would have been higher.

September 20th, 2012 at 9:50 am

Everyone is entitled…did you read the article?

It said, “the most viewers to watch a men’s singles final since 2007.” That includes all those years that Nadal played in the finals. Wait, I have to check how many there were.

September 20th, 2012 at 10:00 am

@grendel

I will concede on Pt 2. Knowing he has limited time in the game was most probably the hugest factor behind his mental fortitude. So it could definitely be argued that it’s been a blessing in disguise and made him a player he may not otherwise have been.

But. Again. The style of play that has contributed to his success has NOT been the major contributor to his knee problem. From what I’ve read, it’s the shoe – in being designed to take the pressure off his foot, it’s adding more to his knees. Maybe he would still have had knee issues from his style of play, but they probably wouldn’t have been this severe this early.

September 20th, 2012 at 10:20 am

Nadal has only been in the finals twice how many times has Fed been there since 2007? It was a novelty this year with Murray having the most realistic chance of winning his first slam for Britain in 76 years. History was being made.

Madmax, domination is over 90% winning record not 83 or 87.

September 20th, 2012 at 11:50 am

Twice only? You mean Djokovic has an even better record with 3 finals appearances? Need I mention that Federer had been to 6 finals and won 5 of them? Since 2007 as you asked, Roger was in 3 finals, won 2 of them (2007, 2008). That’s better than Nadal’s 2 with 1 win, isn’t it?

Nadal has not done as well as the current top 2 men at the US Open. He was not missed much because the US Open has been doing quite well for so many years without him, this year included.

September 20th, 2012 at 12:32 pm

EIETMO

let’s face it: you’re jealous over federer’s utter dominance on grass, hard n indoor for years at a stretch and therefore find it hard to get a grip on the fact that your guy lags far behind in this regard..

Who’s been overall more dominant can be best gauged from the fact this simple fact:
Take away his favourite French opens from nadal, he is nowhere near all-time greats!
But in fed’s case, take away all of his wimbledons, n he still remains an all-time great with 10 slams!

Lastly,no year end title, just one AO n USO, n 2 wimbledon for your guy. compare it to fed n keep lamenting for the rest of your life..

September 20th, 2012 at 12:34 pm

@Alison: as Grendel mentioned, excellent post. And I agree with you fully.

September 20th, 2012 at 12:48 pm

Thanks Lenny. It’s been well documented that Rafa’s knee issues are a direct consequence of his corrective shoes which he wears because of the congenital bone disorder in his foot. If anyone cared to read his doctor’s recent account they would know that. People just prefer to blame Rafa’s style of play.

At the end of the day, I just want Rafa better and back playing as soon as possible, because I and millions find tennis dull without him. Perhaps they might design a different type of shoe for him that wouldn’t put too much strain on his knees.

September 20th, 2012 at 1:52 pm

grendel

fantastic posts about the ‘what if’ scenarios of nadalites.

alison

great post! it’s fair to say that the syl of both guys’re quite unique n excitin! tennis’d definitely be a lot lot poorer if any one of fed/rafa hadn’t ever played. they both bring a great deal to tennis n r priceless in their own right.

September 20th, 2012 at 2:11 pm

a tennis purist will almost always prefer fed’s styl over rafa’s, but the new age tennis fans definitely may like rafa’s styl a lot more! fed brings perfection to tennis whil nadal brings change, both’re important elements for the game!

September 20th, 2012 at 2:14 pm

Thanks Brando.
Sienna 1st of all i do not hate the mighty Fed,i like him,but hes just not my favorite thats all sorry,i appreciate his game,and all his achievements,and unlike you i dont do hate,i leave that in the real world i dont bring it into the world of sport,or onto an internet forum,2nd of all your right its a fact as i already stated Fed is more talented than Rafa,but watchability is a matter of opinion not a fact,you find Fed more watchable and thats your opinion and fare enough your entitled to it,Rafas more watchable for me and thats my opinion,and guess what hell im entitled to it,but it has nothing to do with my funloving itch for Rafa.

September 20th, 2012 at 2:21 pm

http://www.atpworldtour.com/Matchfacts/Matchfacts-Landing.aspx. Some interesting stats here on 2012 1st serve return points won.

September 20th, 2012 at 2:38 pm

^ wrong article printed. Search the 2012 1st serve return points won on ATP site.

September 20th, 2012 at 2:45 pm

Federer fans should not feel the need to denegrate Rafa to extol Federer’s greatness, they are both two sides of the same coin. Federer’s profile and tennis in general were enhanced by the arrival of Rafa. Had there not been the intense rivalry between the two of them, a lot of people would have got bored with total dominance by one player and that was beginning to happen until Rafa provided competition.

Watch this video and hear the tennis pundits say just that:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOE5ofdtVOU&noredirect=1

I don’t believe that talent has anything to do with style. Tennis is not rocket science, the whole idea is to place the ball where your opponent can’t return it within the lines, that’s all it is in a nutshell.

When Roger is playing against Rafa/Nole or Murray he has to put more effort into his game and he doesn’t look effortless then. It’s easy to look effortless when you are not being stretched.

September 20th, 2012 at 2:51 pm

Lenny – fair enough

EIETMO – “At the end of the day, I just want Rafa better and back playing as soon as possible, because I and millions find tennis dull without him”. That sounds reasonable in a way, although a little sad in another – tennis is bigger than one man, whoever he may be. Get too attached to one individual, and you end up making the kind of unreasonable statements which I have tried to expose.

Sienna:”watchability of a player is not a subjective measurement. It is not up to you if Roger style is the most enjoyable to watch. It is a fact.”
This is actually quite a tricky one. I was first inclined just to dismiss it until I realised that taste is not entirely subjective. Some books, films, acrobat shows, shitting contests, dances, songs and so on just are better and easier on the eye than others by any standard of measurement you care to bring up. That said, once the standard of songs, novels etc becomes high, opinion automatically starts to split. There is no longer universal consensus. Taste starts to matter.

Why does one like so and so rather than such and such? It can’t be just a matter of quality. Something about a particular player connects with your wires in a way which is frankly incomprehensible so far as I can see. And unfortunately, this works for dislike, too, which is rarely entirely rational.

In this kind of situation which is so emotional, alison’s stance seems to me to be measured and sensible. Even so, there is a place for extremes: “What you think is irrelevant because whatever you think is wrong. That is a fact and not an opinion”. I don’t suppose alison enjoyed that very much, but it is pretty funny.

September 20th, 2012 at 2:59 pm

Well, Robson won the 3rd set 6-2. In the last month, she has now beaten the top 3 Chinese women. I expect she is gathering quite a profile in China. She remarks:”..I’m trying not to focus on anyone else’s expectations, just focusing on improving and listening to my coach.” That’s the thing – expectations on her are going to be increasing exponentially. How she deals with that will tells us a lot about how her career will go. She’s pretty laid back, so i suspect she’ll be ok.

September 20th, 2012 at 3:07 pm

“I don’t believe that talent has anything to do with style. Tennis is not rocket science, the whole idea is to place the ball where your opponent can’t return it within the lines, that’s all it is in a nutshell.”

That is a misunderstanding. Style is an expression of talent, that is all. Style of course is not aimed for as such. And yes, indeed, the goals of tennis are simple. The miraculous thing is, within this simple framework, executions of staggering complexity are performed by the great – including Nadal.

September 20th, 2012 at 3:11 pm

Grendel brings up an interesting point about taste. “Tastes” in the sense of something one likes/dislikes individually is subjective. But yes, whether something is ‘good’ or ‘bad’ is often objective. And, it’s possible to like something even if you know it’s bad. I adore 80s music (oops, my age is showing) and B-grade horror schlock, but I am also more than aware of how awful it is. In that sense, I can say my taste for these things is bad, but the fact that I like it is up to me.

Back to the topic at hand, from a purely aesthetic standpoint nobody – whatever you think of the man and whether or not you support him – can fault Federer’s game. Yet, personally, I have always been drawn to the fighters and characters – and head cases, I lurve me a good headcase :P – so support Rafa over Fed.

I prefer watching and supporting Rafa, but there’s no way in hell I can say his game is better to watch, objectively speaking. It’s not. Plain and simple. Federer is a cat. Rafa is a puppy chasing a tennis ball :) (Funnily enough, I’m a cat person, not a dog person)

September 20th, 2012 at 3:14 pm

Prejudice and personal opinios aside, but the bulk of Rafa fans are: woman (all ages), children and people which didn’t like Fed for one reason or another (arrogant, too dominant, too cool on court).

I play tennis and frequent the brazilian circuit (whihc is pro clay) once and a while, and I don’t know a single male person (who follows tennis for a few years, play, practice or whatever), above 20 who prefers Rafa than Roger, they may like both. I know several like this, but never have I ever found some one with a litle tennis background in this scenario. Not even in tennis tourneys around the globe, went to Wimby, US Open and RG this year. And is every time the same, with people you talk around the globe.
Try to run a pool with people you know around you, chose 20 who know who Fed and Nadal are and spread them in this cathegories: woman, children, Fed is not my thing (those who will say: yeah, his not my style) and adult male.

Here in this site is like this. I want to know who is a male above 20 Rafa fan, not counting on Djoko, Murray and other fans?!

September 20th, 2012 at 3:16 pm

Damm Lenny, you just broke my statistics:)

September 20th, 2012 at 3:18 pm

Grendel great post,and on the contrary Siennas entitled to say whatever she wants,and im not the type of person to get annoyed over what someone says to me on an internet forum(well sometimes when it borders on personal insults i do),but i can appreciate she has alot of passion for Roger,but i believe sometimes our passion can cloud common sense and rational judgement.

September 20th, 2012 at 3:21 pm

^ Lol. :-)

September 20th, 2012 at 3:32 pm

My lol and :-) is for Lenny!

September 20th, 2012 at 3:34 pm

@Daniel. Hahaha. I’m female, actually. But I still break your stats, because I’ve never been a fan of Rafa’s for his looks / physique if that’s what you were implying. Not my type :) But while I’ve been watching tennis since Becker-Edberg, I don’t have a playing background myself. So you may have a point there.

September 20th, 2012 at 3:34 pm

It’s a paradox that men prefer the so called ‘elegant’ Fed whilst women and children prefer the physical Rafa. I would hazzard a guess that men probably think it’s sissy to like a man who appeals to women so they opt for Roger who doesn’t, on the whole. Because of Rafa’s looks, men don’t want to be seen ‘liking’ him.

I am generalising here, of course, because I’m sure there are women who do like Roger and grown men who like Rafa.

My preference for Rafa has nothing to do with his sex appeal or his biceps, I just find his style enthralling. I’ve just watched his match against Berdych in the 2012 AO Qtrs and the spirit with which he fights his battles in just overwhelming.

I do think it’s unfair to think that fans of Rafa’s know nothing about the game that they watch him and not tennis. Nothing could be farther from the truth.

September 20th, 2012 at 3:38 pm

EIETMO,

But the point is, the main thing about it is “the way” Fed plays, as Alison said above.

I think we Fed fans (or, male and female with any tennis background, tennis comunity per say,..) are a litle arrogant in this regard, because it amuses us how can someone who likes tennis don’t like Federer playing.

And than, when you relaise that so much people, who likes and watch tennis, at least who spend time on this forum about the subject don’t like him and than you start cathegorizing, and it has a bit of fundament.

You do have a point of men not wanting to associate with Nadal’s “manhood”, but I am male, straight (until proven otherwise:) and I actually think Fed is sexier than Rafa. Of course, Nadal has the body, but overall, I prefer Fed’s figure. An example, looking at Fed’s rolex advertising and Nadal’s Armany underwear one, Fed’s represent more my taste.

September 20th, 2012 at 4:20 pm

@Daniel:

I am male, age 25 (share the same b’day as rafa- so vamos on that one rafa, lol!) and yet i support rafa.

I know of plenty male supporters who root for rafa- not for any other reason than simply liking his game and watching him play!

I think it’s just far too easy to dismiss rafa fans as being a collection of women (all ages), children and those who dislike fed for whatever reason.

It’s too simplistic, redundant and prejudiced to a degree.

Especially the women section of rafa’s fans. Far too many simply get dismissed as liking rafa for whatever ‘sex appeal’ he has.

I mean come on now: i am sure more than a fair few like rafa for his tennis. God forbid the notion that some women just like him strictly for his tennis, and no other reason at all!

So i have to disagree with you in the main on that one Daniel. Yes some do like him for those reasons, as you have seen noted but others do not- they quite simply like him for his tennis!

I want to ask you this question Daniel: what do you say to the idea that most fed fans are glory loving supporters, who jumped on the bandwagon when roger was dominant without any challenge to his throne, and are a bunch of raging idol worshiping fanatics who have to shove their viewpoint down the throat of others even if they disagree (which is their right) as to whether he is a GOAT or merely a fantastic player?

Food for thought isn’t it?

LOL, i’ll end by quoting you this Mark Twain quote which is somewhat appropriate in this case:

All generalizations are false, including this one.

September 20th, 2012 at 4:26 pm

Another one of,
I have an uncle who loved tennis to the core, he trained my cousins, mand and woman (she was too lazy, but so talented). He was a Sampras guy, and he can’t stand Federer, simply because Fed shattered Sampras, and everytime we get together we argue about it, he is senior so I have to hold on.
He doesn’t even like Nadal either, but everytime he comes up with the HxH thing, just to denegrite this aspect of Fed’s game and entitle Sampras. He doesn’t even enjoy this era that much (whihc is a pitty), because his fandom of a person were bigger than the sport itself. I think he will only cheer tennis again as I remember when Fed and Nadal are out. I think their ascend was too soon after Sampras for his taste.
I hope that doesn’t happen to me:)

September 20th, 2012 at 4:27 pm

grendel Says:

…
Sienna:”watchability of a player is not a subjective measurement. It is not up to you if Roger style is the most enjoyable to watch. It is a fact.”
This is actually quite a tricky one. I was first inclined just to dismiss it until I realised that taste is not entirely subjective. Some books, films, acrobat shows, shitting contests, dances, songs and so on just are better and easier on the eye than others by any standard of measurement you care to bring up. That said, once the standard of songs, novels etc becomes high, opinion automatically starts to split. There is no longer universal consensus. Taste starts to matter.

…

Grendel your wrong.

We think we have many choices in life but halas we do not have choices. it will alle trickerdytrick the way it is planned out. No religion or luck is in the place just plane old evolution.

The sheer over powering billiance and abillity of TMF makes it true.

So evolution is a proven science and religion has been put to rest in the normal and intelligent world of people. Alison is a religious person about this I am a scientist and the facts are proving my case.

September 20th, 2012 at 4:27 pm

actually it’s a proven fact historically n socio-behaviourally that men like tough stuff whil women like soft n cozy things, so no wonder many men like federer who’s really tough n elegant player! men’ve higher style element too, nobody can claim women’re more stylish! not only in respect of looks, but also in terms of tennis player choice! good or bad, but fed’s game is elegant!
sexy is a different thing n i don’t wanna talk about people who become fan of a partcular player due to sex appeal. sex appeal doesn’t decide tennis matches! elegant game however gives you injury free n may give longevity in career which is important n fed’s got it.

now @Lenny

your fed-rafa cat-puppy analogy post was ONE OF THE GREATEST POSTS I EVER READ! :D

and finally yeah, i also think rafa fans know lot about tennis n rafa’s also quite a tennis player himself. even steffi likes rafa more than fed, so rafa fans’re not ignorant at all!

n i like cats too, so we’ve at least somethin in common!

September 20th, 2012 at 4:35 pm

Daniel, I can think of two: a nephew who is in his early 20s (his faves are Rafa first then Murray) and an uncle who is in his 60s (favours Rafa, but still likes Fed also).

I prefer Nole’s figure. ;)

Fed’s talent on the court is pretty much undeniable, whether you like him/don’t, think he’s the GOAT/not, think he played in weak era/strong one, etc. His movement, his serve and his forehand are top notch, to this day. His backhand can be a liability, though. And as other more astute posters have mentioned, when his timing is a little off, it can throw a lot off.

What’s truly amazing is how long he’s played, and how deep into every event he goes (almost always), and how well he’s held up in light of that.

Rafa’s movement is admirable in a different way, for his explosiveness, and his forehand, too, is stunning.

Nole’s movement is amazing because of his gumby-like stretch and flexibility; he literally seems to shrink the court. The depth on his shots is great as is his anticipation on the return. Murray’s movement is lightning fast, and sometimes you don’t really see how fast because he anticipates incredibly well, so he’s already on it mentally before he is physically, if that makes sense. His first serve can be a real weapon too. Both have fabulous backhands.

Anyhow…just rambling.

September 20th, 2012 at 4:36 pm

Brando, I swear you were a woman all this time. LOL I think I am getting to old for this sh$$%&. You just surprised the hell out of me coming out:) I didn’t recall a single male Rafa supporter in here, from the last 6 years

Regarding the ones you describe in this part
“I want to ask you this question Daniel: what do you say to the idea that most fed fans are glory loving supporters, who jumped on the bandwagon when roger was dominant without any challenge to his throne, and are a bunch of raging idol worshiping fanatics who have to shove their viewpoint down the throat of others even if they disagree (which is their right) as to whether he is a GOAT or merely a fantastic player?”

they are not genuine fans, and just bandweagon, the ones who spend time on this forum to discuss tennis, are not those ones, they may be facebook fillers, but not on here. When I open this website some of my friend look at me wiht that judgemental face: tennis blog?!?!?!?! Really?!?!!?

An the same goes for Rafa fans, as Fed came into the scene first, some are just agaisnt Roger just because they are the: I don`t go with the majority type.

You know, those people who doens’t go to a movie when it is realiksed than the movie bangs, everybody is talking about it, the word of mouth is huge, and the ones who haven’t watch still, start disliking the movie just because everybody is talking about it, kind of, I am superior to the mass thinking. ANd them they actually see the movie and come oyt with that: don’t know what wass the fuss about, usually same people who is always negative to any change or technological development, they judge and criticise first, just for the pleasure of it. Lost count of how many times I saw that.
Lost the point in here, but the Fact that Fed came first, he set the standard for Rafa fans to come, and yes, you can generalise. We would nevber know how it would be, if they came in the scene in the same year or if Rafa came earlier. But the point that rafa came later, challenging Fed the way he did, set the tone for vast majority of his fans to be. You guys are associated to Fed in this particular case, weather you like or not:)

September 20th, 2012 at 4:39 pm

”Brando Says:
@Daniel:

I am male, age 25 (share the same b’day as rafa- so vamos on that one rafa, lol!) and yet i support rafa.”

i knew before this that great men only think alike, but i never knew that great men even born in the same day! ;)

September 20th, 2012 at 4:42 pm

“I hope that doesn’t happen to me:)”

I think that’s unlikely, Daniel. What you say about your uncle rings true. The advent of first Federer and then Nadal and now Djokovic so soon after the demise of Sampras is pretty astonishing. There’s absolutely no sign of anyone comparable coming up. Who knows, maybe 20 years or so before we see someone comparable to Sampras/Federer/Nadal.

By then, the tennis world will be ready and gasping for a new icon…..

September 20th, 2012 at 4:43 pm

Jane agree,
Murray has the best anticipation of them all. He is the least wrong footed player on top. I remember one match where Fed was wrong footing him a lot and I was very surprised, but in the US Open final, you could see him anticipoating Djoko’s balls a lot. Maybe it’s just with some players, the match up thing.

September 20th, 2012 at 4:43 pm

I have never been interested in any player simply for their looks,i mean come off it are we all that shallow,and if i was theres players out there just as good looking or even better,i worked with a girl years ago and asked her which football team she supported,and she replied Manchester United because they have the best looking players especially David Beckham(YAWN),to which i thought how old are you 12? and TBH ive seen better looking men walking the streets, now im probably in a minority saying this but ive always thought DB IS highly overated looks wise and as a footballer,i always thought Thierry Henry was better at both but hell that might be just me,different strokes for different folks as they say.

September 20th, 2012 at 4:47 pm

Jane,

I have a cousin that loves Djoko and Nadal just for their behinds. She even has this theory that Rafa’s under wear “get in” because he has a big but:)

September 20th, 2012 at 4:47 pm

@Daniel:

LMAO- with a blog name like Brando, how on earth did you jump to that conclusion?

Or did you do the maths like this: rafa fan= a women with a crush, or a teenager who likes his tennis players to have muscles like his favourite comic book character!

LOL, just kidding, but it is funny that you thought otherwise!

I agree with you though about how some are not fans of the player, fed, rafa or otherwise, but moreso a fan of the players success. That happens quite alot though- across most sports.

September 20th, 2012 at 4:49 pm

It should be OK to like Federer without hating Rafa and vice versa.

I don’t dislike Federer, but I don’t agree with all the accolades like him being the GOAT. I just don’t think he is.

It’s true that I don’t find him entertaining to watch, but that’s just me and it’s not because I don’t understand tennis. What’s there not to understand? In fact, I really enjoy watching Federer when he is tested.

What I don’t like is the indoctrination by tennis commentators on all things Fed. I can see for myself, and I am able to judge for myself how good he is. I don’t need anyone to drum it into me whether I like it or not.

When people dismiss Rafa as only being good on clay, they fail to acknowledge that you have to be a complete player to be good on clay because you can’t win easy quick points. You have to work harder to win on clay.

September 20th, 2012 at 4:49 pm

@Huh:

LOL, that’s why you are my fav fed fan on here- you give credit where it is due, and you recognise greatness where it lies. :-)

September 20th, 2012 at 4:52 pm

The problem with clay is the repetition of the same point over and over again.
But totally agree with you. Clay specialist are not afraid of a batlle at all, and they will come out to play, regardless. And you need a solid foundation to be good at it. Thats why both our guys started playing on it, me too as well, even if I prefer hardcourts:)

September 20th, 2012 at 4:53 pm

alison, totally with you re D. Beckham. I just don’t get the adulation. It’s a typical case of hype taking over reality.

I love Rafa’s tennis, the fact that I like him as a person as well is just a bonus.

September 20th, 2012 at 4:55 pm

Daniel:” I didn’t recall a single male Rafa supporter in here, from the last 6 years”

When I first came on this site, 5 or 6 years ago can’t recall, there were 2 fans constantly bickering, Samps and Agassi Fan. Samps was a Nadal supporter and I think male, and Agassi Fan a Federer supporter. Then there was Voicemail1 – a huge Nadal supporter, and surely a male?

September 20th, 2012 at 4:57 pm

Brando

Thanks for your super-nice compliment!!! :D
and you again proved that great men think alike! B-)

September 20th, 2012 at 5:00 pm

completely agree with alison re: david beckham! most overrated player, lucky to be born in england, that’s all! i’d take thierry henry anyday to watch over beckham, he’s surely better imo!

September 20th, 2012 at 5:11 pm

@Huh:

Thanks. As an Englishman, i agree with you wholeheartedly about David Beckham.

His legacy will be one of a marketing phenomenon, less of a footballer who was a genuine talent, as one of whom you mentioned, the great Thierry Henry.

September 20th, 2012 at 5:20 pm

http://www.tennis.com/news/2012/09/umpire-goodman-has-submit-dna-test/39497/

Strange story.

September 20th, 2012 at 6:03 pm

http://blogs.tennis.com/thewrap/2012/04/catching-the-tape-at-home-with-andy.html

Intriguing stuff on the young Murray.

September 20th, 2012 at 6:17 pm

There is quite a few women who have male poster names, why is that? There chance to be a man? Mmmmm

Daniel brought up a great point. Like him, I am a male who has played alot of Tennis, and plays well enough to know what hitting certain shots are like. I find that most tennis players who actually play the game think Fed is the most gifted player they have ever seen. Knowing how difficult some of the shots are he makes ( and has made throughout his career )and the ever easy gliding footwork are something that makes a regular tennis player gasp. It has nothing to do with it or him being sexy or not, good looking, personality, etc. He just has simply produced the most amazing tennis shots making ever created.

There is no question who the GOAT is. I will continue to trust and respect the one who are best qualified. Not a poster, but pro tennis players past and present, and the pro tennis coaches in the ATP.

Worshipped? Not. Idol? Not. The best ever? Yep.

September 20th, 2012 at 6:17 pm

@ Skeezer & @ Huh.

I never made any comment about who I believe is the better player because I don’t go there. In fact, I said, “on any given day any of the top 4 can beat each other.” There have been matches where I throughly enjoy watching Fed play. Same with Nole. Same with Rafa. And same with Andy. There have also been days that I think Fed sucked. Same with Nole. Same with Rafa. And the same with Murray. So Skeezer, your “hot bod” comment is infantile & lame as most of your comments seem to be. I enjoy a good match, no matter who is playing it.

September 20th, 2012 at 6:31 pm

Not agreeing with Cat Fed vs. Puppy Rafa analogy. To me it’s more like Ostrich Fed vs. Panther Rafa, if we have to choose animals. Gangly legs, longish torso, chicken wings – ostrich. Proportionate and fluid in body and movement – panther.

Federer’s movements are too jerky, he holds himself as if he had swallowed a broomstick whether he stands, walks or runs, even when he walks between points he moves like a chicken or indeed an ostrich, kicking his legs forwards from his hips and stomping flatfooted with each step, his whole body slightly shaking on impact. Very unpleasant to watch.

He only manages to get to the balls due to his excellent anticipation and huge first step, not due to any supposedly elegant and smooth movement. (And I’m not talking nowadays, when he lunges about really ungainly – I’m talking about top Federer.) He’s anything but elegant – he’s stiff and gangly, looking basically like a big hairy black spider: all thin limbs and a pot belly.

So, yes, it is possible NOT to enjoy watching him. Rather the opposite.

September 20th, 2012 at 8:05 pm

Thangs, Wade and another poster named R-something-or-other are (I think) male Rafa fans – not around much. But all have posted here. And Voicemale1, as grendel notes.

Peter is a male name – perhaps here is another male Rafa fan?

Steve27 and Brando are male Rafa fans. Borg is a Rafa fan and seems to be male.

Seems like there’s a fair amount of both male/female Rafa fans??

September 20th, 2012 at 9:33 pm

A great article about Bjorn Borg the pre Nadal in spanish http://www.jotdown.es/2012/09/guillermo-ortiz-bjorn-borg-el-hombre-que-no-quiso-dejar-de-ser-un-adolescente/

September 20th, 2012 at 9:38 pm

Peter,

the thing with Fed is that sometimes since he doesn’t want to arrive “ugly” in a ball. Kind of over stretching and so. That’s why I few years ago when Djoko made his impression of Fed, Fed chest up, the head facing up , serious face and the flair hair in the wind. It was just one of the most amazing Djoko’s impression, the best for me was Nalbandian belly and Djoko saying right after: He is gonna kill me, he is gonna kill me:)

September 20th, 2012 at 10:30 pm

You right grendel,

Forgot about voicemale1!

September 20th, 2012 at 10:31 pm

grendel, that is a strange story, re: the coffee cup murder and its connection to tennis. I think it came up once before on these threads but thanks for the update.

Also thanks for pointing out Tignor’s piece on Murray. I had missed that but there is lots of great stuff, as usual, in his work. This bit about soccer and tennis was interesting:

“Footballers turned tennis players: In that, Murray is a lot like Federer, Djokovic, and Nadal. There must be something about the sport, which forces you not just to move quickly, like basketball, but to create with your feet, that goes with the modern tennis game. More so, obviously, than throwing sports like baseball and American football.”

What struck is that the Euro players do tend to be known more for their movement, flexibility, speed, things we might associate with soccer, whereas Tignor points about throwing sports in the USA, which made me immediately think of serving in tennis, and how players like Roddick, Isner, Fish and Querrey all have strong serves. I don’t know if there is actually a direct correlation, but it struck me none the less.

September 20th, 2012 at 10:34 pm

points *out (not points *about…)

September 20th, 2012 at 10:36 pm

Daniel,

“I have a cousin that loves Djoko and Nadal just for their behinds.”

Seriously? That’s all? LOL! :) Oh well, I suppose some men might be fans of some female players strictly for their looks/bods.

Surely it’s much better when it all comes together: i.e., you get to like a player’s tennis, persona/personality (so far as we know), and perhaps even admire them aesthetically as well. Then it’s the whole package.

September 20th, 2012 at 10:40 pm

@Peter

I had a good laugh reading your post. At first I took offense , but I see its what you see, not what is technically correct in a swing.

But I mean ostrich, really? LOL…

If you look at both comparable FH’s, Rafa is by far the most ugly between the 2, and most on the tour. Thing is, Rafa is very unorthodox and with his “buggy whip” finish behind his head. Not pretty. Saw Roddick in an Exho mimicking Rafa’s stroke and never LMAO so hard. We could call that stroke all kinds of funny names but I will digress. Lets not get into other “tics” of Rafa’s on court, shall we? Soderling has done his best imitation a time back in Wimby……hehe.

Now with that “Buggy Whip”, he can create superman like topspin, quite more than anyone on tour. So in the end what does it matter what it “looks” like for both players? Both have more Slams than anyone, but there is no doubt Fed is the Maestro on the court. He uses his stick like a wand commanding notes from his symphony, not like someone wielding a Bat trying to swat flies in the air and trying to hit anything, anyone and everyone in sight.

Fed hits a technically pure and graceful one handed slice ( and chip ). Rafa can only produce a chop, and still doesn’t know how to hit a slice BH. Fed’s one handed BH, although picked on, can be a great weapon. Andy Murray made that mistake int the last AO finals by constantly going to his BH. What happened? Fed won another Slam and hit BH winners left and right.

If you think Fed is reaching for is FH, think again. You need room to swing that liquid whip FH, hitting a ball to close to your body is only good for 2 handed Backhanders, and Rafa doesn’t have a good BH ( technically ) either. Lets not forget that his BH is a weak link picked on just like Feds.

Peter you mention imo in your post more about what FED looks like to you ( ostrich, cat, chicken, broomstick, etc ).

If you want to start on the subject between Rafa and Fed in regards to what they look like on the court as they move around, lets give it a go, I am game :). However, I am afraid some idiot types will chime in and spoil the fun. They usually do. :(

Rafa is a great tennis player, one of the best ever. His best achievements are his Master titles ( I believe in the end he will own the most Master titles when his career is over ), his record 7 FO titles ( and counting ) and his Slam count (11). These are the things he will be remembered by and very well earned. But when fodder talk begins with his fans and start comparing to Feds achievements and GOAT to the best #2 ever ( ok,,,,,greatest present and past…..not future as it has not been written yet ) this is one poster that will protect the mans historical achievements matched by NO ONE.

______________________________________________________

@jane

I have found more than not( disclaimer; not always ) that Rafa fans who post as men are actually women. My take. I mentioned this before but no response. Why?

Never seen or was told a guy posting as a woman…….

______________________________________________________

@womenfly,

After re-reading things I may have got you in the crossfire with the infamous EIETMO posts. My apologies. I am with you on the topic that if the top 4 guys are playing a good tennis match in a final, it is good tennis no matter what.

______________________________________________________

Voicemale1 is a great poster, and will take shots and praises at anyone, including his own fav at times. Now that is what some would call “fair play”!

out.

September 20th, 2012 at 11:27 pm

sorry womenfly, my apologies for gettin lost somewhere in between n mistakin u for supportin EIETMO.

voicemale was definitely GREAT poster!

and mrs jane

your post about fed, rafa, muzz n nole was top-notch n i’ve never perhaps seen u praisin fed as much as you did in that post! ;) that post gave credit to all the players that was due. SPOT ON n BRILLIANT POST! :D

and EIETMO

be it finishin a tennis point or the university syllabus, whoever does it sooner is more talented! and fed is the king of finshin points swiftly, so more talented!

September 21st, 2012 at 2:56 am

Peter @ 8.05, thanks for putting it so succinctly.

September 21st, 2012 at 3:12 am

Rafa is loved all over the globe by men, women (both young and old) and children. For me, the man has oodles of charisma and a magnetic personality, something which very few of the other players on tour or indeed other sportsmen have. That is one of the main reasons, I think, that make him so loved/ liked. Not to mention his fire power on court!

September 21st, 2012 at 3:18 am

Great post, Skeezer. I’ve complained before we don’t see enough of your tennis expertise – it whets the appetite when you do so favour us: more, please.

Sienna says:”So evolution is a proven science and religion has been put to rest in the normal and intelligent world of people.” Would that you were right, Sienna. Alas, religion holds sway still in large parts of the world, including even parts of America. And by the way, you can’t attempt to reason religion away ,it is far too emotionally rooted for that. In time, we may hope it will wither away. But I really don’t see what this has to do with the matter of taste.

jane

Also, in the Murray clip, we have a shy 18 year old (responding to a query)opining that being clever on the court is one of his strengths. It was not boasting, he was already coming to understand himself, which of course will include a little bit of perversity Murray being Murray- thus the forehand (along with the drop shot) was offered as his favourite shot. Fascinating to see, though, the embryonic master. Amusing, too, to see him downplaying his Junior US Open win – this was not modesty, false or otherewise. It was the sober appraisal of a very ambitious youngster. Like Laura Robson (though in a different way), Murray was always a star in the making.

b.t.w.About the football and movement, that may be a legitimate point. But definitely the serving/throwing as it relates to Americans, I wonder if anyone’s ever made that point before – very interesting, and almost certainly a correlation I’d have thought.

In your earlier post, you wrote re Federer:”His backhand can be a liability, though. And as other more astute posters have mentioned, when his timing is a little off, it can throw a lot off.” About the bh – I don’t know. It is a liability w.r.t. Nadal’s high kicker as everyone knows, but perhaps you mean more than that? I don’t have the expertise to analyse tennis strokes, but speaking as a spectator, I don’t know of any singlehanded bh with anything like so much variety. His slice is by far the best around, surely, whilst his majestic bh drive down the line is right up there with Haas, Almagro, Gasquet and Wawrinka. His shortangled bh chip again is outstanding and maybe unique. His bh volley off his feet is a joy to behold and the best since Henman’s. His bh smash rarely misses. There is a kind of defensive bh he employs in some extended rallies which actually looks quite ugly (he appears to be a little tucked up) – I’m never quite sure what is going on here (perhaps Skeezer will enlighten us). Is the stroke a response to heavy spin, and is he in turn applying some heavy spin?

About the timing going off. It’s always been my belief – how justified, I don’t know – that Federer’s game has little margin for error. He treads a tightrope, and sometimes, inevitably, falls off. That, I took it, was the meaning of his wry post match comments after his Berdych defeat:”….So many moments I thought, Man, it’s just not happening for me….”

What you say about Murray’s speed and anticipation: I’ll never forget some examples of this in his match with Raonic, which left the Canadian simply gasping in amazement. In the Djokovic match, it was more subtle, wasn’t it. That was quite a chess match, in parts. In some of the longer rallies, Djokovic would be hitting the ball harder, but Murray was living with him precisely because of this speed and anticipation – and very sure hands sometimes. It felt to me that it must put a lot of strain on Murray – concentration has to be at peak all the time whilst this onus is not quite so strong on Djokovic since he has the luxury of the harder hit ball. In this respect, Murray is conceptually so to speak if not in style, a little bit like Federer. He takes big risks with his soft/hard style of play and if he wins many grand slams, boy will he have earned them.

In your earlier post, you wrote:”

September 21st, 2012 at 3:54 am

Laura Robson’s match yesterday was over 3 hours – that’s a long time for a woman’s match. She said afterwards:”I am pretty tired right now but I’ve had a massage and an ice bath so I’ll be fine for tomorrow”. Ths is virgin territory for her, so I don’t really see how she can know that. Gonna be a tough semi – but, all of this is a tremendous learning experience.

September 21st, 2012 at 4:01 am

Giles – excellent post on why you love Rafa.

September 21st, 2012 at 4:06 am

There is a kind of sexism in the classification of tennis fans. There is an assumption that women are shallow and are unable to see beyond looks so that’s why Rafa is their favourite player. This kind of prejudice also implies that Federer has no sex appeal and that’s why he doesn’t attract women fans on the whole.

It is deemed unmanly to be a Rafa fan just the same as it is deemed unmanly for a man not to like football. One poster went as far as saying that some of Rafa’s female fans use male pen names, simply because he cannot fathom any ‘man’ being a fan of a sexy tennis player.

It’s all prejudice.

September 21st, 2012 at 6:22 am

Huh Says:

EIETMO

“be it finishin a tennis point or the university syllabus, whoever does it sooner is more talented! and fed is the king of finshin points swiftly, so more talented!”

Why did Federer take 5 hours+ to lose to Rafa in the 2008 Wimbledon final and the 2009 AO final, and it took Rafa less than 2 hrs to dismiss Federer in the 2008 RG final?

September 21st, 2012 at 6:29 am

jane – further to the point about American servers. I suppose citing 4 Americans is not quite enough to indicate correlation, although it is telling that they are the best Americans of the day, along with Fish – no slouch at the fast serve himself. But the history of American tennis is replete with hard serving serve and volley merchants – so I think it is reasonable to cite correlation.

The more interesting question then becomes: is the correlation causal? Not necessarily. There may just be something in the American psyche which is predisposed to macho type s and v, in fact there almost certainly is in my opinion, though that sort of thing is very difficult to prove. However, given the established link between throwing and serving – the action is apparently the same – it seems quite likely that there is a causal link. Such a causal link might be re-inforced by the Texan style macho stuff alluded to above. I don’t despise that, by the way, despite my use of the word “macho”. It’s part of the whole American energy thing, which any European visitor to America tends to be favourably aware of.

September 21st, 2012 at 6:31 am

While I am a Federer fan, my wife is an even bigger Nadal fan. She refuses to continue watching any tournament if Nadal is not entered or if Nadal loses prior to the finals. When they play against each other, I keep my mouth shut the whole time to preserve peace and harmony in our house. She used to like Djokovic but started hating him in 2011 and we all know the reason for that.

September 21st, 2012 at 7:30 am

Polo. Your wife has good taste! Lol

September 21st, 2012 at 7:32 am

Polo, and your point is?

September 21st, 2012 at 7:33 am

Grendel
… But I really don’t see what this has to do with the matter of taste.

Grendel If evolution is a fact then bad taste will be banned out. So most people wiil strive for the best and biggest it cant come any better and bigger then Roger.

So you migth think taste is subjective but evolution will make it objective.

September 21st, 2012 at 7:54 am

Everyone is entitled to my opinion Says:
Nadal has only been in the finals twice how many times has Fed been there since 2007? It was a novelty this year with Murray having the most realistic chance of winning his first slam for Britain in 76 years. History was being made.

Madmax, domination is over 90% winning record not 83 or 87.

September 20th, 2012 at 11:50 am

There is plenty more I could post from you “Everyone”..but seriously, am bored.

Why is it that you think that Fed fans hate Rafa. Count me out please. You know nothing.

You have no points regarding the GOAT. I understand you are missing your man, I understand. So go to a nadal (purely nadal) love site, then you won’t miss him so much.

So when you have something positive to say, I will read it. For now, there isn’t much which hasn’t already been said. You keep repeating your jaded views and expect Federer fans to “get it?”.

Roll on to the WTF.

September 21st, 2012 at 8:20 am

grendel, regarding Fed’s backhand, that’s mainly with regard to Rafa, sure. It can be an absolute weapon, too, as skeezer pointed out in his long post. Perhaps sometimes the backhand chip return can be taken advantage of – I think I’ve seen both Delpo (USO) and Nole (AO 11) come in on that and take some control of the rally by doing so. BUT that chip return is also sometimes equally a weapon, clearing the net short and catching a player off guard, or allowing Fed to pass the opponent when he comes in. Maybe that’s an example of that fine line you speak of? I thought of you when I mentioned that timing comment before, as I knew you were one of the posters who has made that observation about Fed, and now Murray too. Although Murray maybe has more margin for error as he will play counter-punch style a little more.

w.r.t. the serve/throwing thing, I wonder about just “growing up” playing a certain sport(s) – even really young, 4-7, say – and how that might develop certain affinities. Like MurFedalovic growing up “creating with their feet” as Tignor says and how that translates to strong movement in tennis. The same could be said, possibly, of American players growing up tossing a football or playing catch – all that emphasis on arm action could easily translate into a powerful serve. Makes sense, really.

September 21st, 2012 at 8:57 am

Looks like Nadal will not come back until the AO 2013.

http://sphotos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/420965_10151113927376026_537128746_n.jpg

September 21st, 2012 at 9:02 am

“I have a cousin that loves Djoko and Nadal just for their behinds.”

LOL.

September 21st, 2012 at 9:08 am

To EIETMO re: “Polo, and your point is?”
Do I have to explain everything to you?

To Giles re: “Polo. Your wife has good taste! Lol”
That’s why I married her. Although I cannot explain the vice versa.

September 21st, 2012 at 9:08 am

One thing the Federer and Murray fans can say is looks is not the reason why they are fans…. LOL…

September 21st, 2012 at 9:10 am

It is not surprising that EIETMO salivates at Peter’s knockabout post. Oh, if only I could write like that, Ettie sighs (swooningly). But let us take a little look at Peter’s post.

Federer (we are told)reminds us of an ostrich, or at any rate of a chicken. Actually, come to think of it, why not throw in both for good measure,eh and for that matter what about – well, hang on, better observe the proprieties. I know, we’ll wait to the end, when they’ve forgotten about the chicken/ostrich thing (although underneath, it’s all simmering away nicely) and we’ll throw into the mix a nice black spider, big and hairy, with thin limbs (oh, wait a bit – spiders don’t have limbs do they; never mind, metaphysically they do, that’s what counts).

Now, what is it about these comic opera spiders, you know, like Shelob in Lord of the Rings that terrifies poor old Frodo – yes, that’s it, they’ve got great big bellies, haven’t they? Now, how can we fix this onto Fed, eh, let’s see now – ‘course, silly me, pot belly! That’s the job! Federer hasn’t got a pot belly? Now don’t be so pedantic. This is poetic licence. If Federer hasn’t got a pot belly, he deserves to have one, he certainly looks as if he ought to have one with those chubby cheeks (he doesn’t have chubby cheeks? now don’t start on that one again…) – morally, lets face it, he has got a pot belly. In fact, I think you could plausibly argue, no, musn’t be so mealy-mouthed, you are obliged as a morally upright citizen to argue, to insist that those who deny Federer has a pot belly are guilty of spiritual blindness and are, indeed, factually misrepresenting what is the true, the underlying situation.

The essence of the pot belly is embodied in this ghastly Swiss, the very gestalt of the pot belly envelops this unpleasant individual and the fact that you can’t actually see it is in fact proof of its existence. For a mere optical registering of this gaseous anomaly could not do justice to the sheer potbelliness of the potbelly. It can only be left to the imagination to grapple with such a surreal excrescence.

Now, what do black spiders remind you of, what is the implied evil in Lord of the Rings? Nazism, of course! How do Nazis walk? Why, they strut! Got it, got it! Let’s give him, this ostrich-chicken-spider thing a kick from the hips and a stomping flatfoot! The perfect Nazi strut! Throw in for good measure a few suggestive images like “jerky” “broomstick” and so forth, and the analogy is complete.

Gotcha!

September 21st, 2012 at 9:29 am

jamie Says:

Looks like Nadal will not come back until the AO 2013.

http://sphotos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/420965_10151113927376026_537128746_n.jpg

What a picture!

September 21st, 2012 at 9:52 am

madmax, you are under no obligation whatsoever to read my posts, believe me. By all means skip them; it wouldn’t matter to me at all.

September 21st, 2012 at 9:57 am

I am beginning to get the picture. Rafa is not taken seriously by male tennis fans because he has sex appeal just like Roger Moore says he wasn’t taken seriously as an actor when he started out, because he was too good looking.

Men are also jealous of someone with Rafa’s appeal beating the hell out of their ‘macho’ Federer. The men who do like Rafa as a player are afraid to ‘come out’ because it is deemed to be effeminate for a man to like someone like him.

I get it!

September 21st, 2012 at 10:06 am

Everyone is entitled to my opinion,

Re; sexism. Be careful what you say. You assume too much, deem too much. Peeps like you go right after that card without studying the real content of the matter. Hit a button?

——————

@jane

You are eight in pointing out Feds chip(ROS). It worked in the early era of career when guys were used to a banging rhythm from the baseline, it through them off. Nole (and Rafa) overcame that and now simply smack the ball in return and take control of the point. His chip return when hit deep is just a floater, which turns into a sitting duck nowadays for the likes of Novak and the other big hitters.

Thankfully he has changed his return somewhat in you’ll notice he hits out on the return (when he can), now starts the point in neutral, rather than “feeding” his opponet a sitter to smack him around with.

———–

grendel thanks.
I can’t get what you saying about Fed’s BH. Maybe its his BH flick? This amazing shot, that only he can do, is usually off a well driven ball pushing him deep to the BH side. He uses a FH grip (yes, FH grip, not BH grip ) to employ this shot.
If he can get to it, usually very late, he picks it up immediately right after the bounce, and gives it a flick of the wrist with an extreme cross court angle that 99% of the time is a winner. There is little or no backswing and uses his opponets power to get the shot back. Magical.

September 21st, 2012 at 10:10 am

Grendel re; 9:29 post

You sure your not Tolkien? You have writing skills like the great one for sure.
“gaseous anomaly,”? LMAO. Fantastic fun reading that post.

September 21st, 2012 at 10:18 am

skeezer, yes I mentioned that bh flick you describe so eloquently, only stupidly called it a chip. Sampras mentioned it, you know, after he played Federer in those exhibitions – and was most impressed by it.

Sorry I can’t be more specific about the “workaday” bh – afraid I don’t have the vocabulary/knowledge to describe it accurately. But, for what it’s worth, it is Federer at his most prosaic – but perhaps that is deceptive (spin on the ball etc).

September 21st, 2012 at 11:08 am

“Federer hasn’t got a pot belly? Now don’t be so pedantic. This is poetic licence.”
Not at all. A 5-minute googling can get you this:
http://s8.postimage.org/q4jskgq0j/roger_federer_shirtless_mediterranean_05.jpg
http://s18.postimage.org/pa7ojcriv/Roger_Federer_ABN_AMRO_World_Tennis_Tournament_A.jpg
http://s12.postimage.org/bxgcbthh7/Roger_Federer_Olympics_Day_5_Tennis_0kf6_P_i05fal.jpg
http://s9.postimage.org/4lb1axcsd/b7fcc488abe1554cc66cff0546050b41.jpg

September 21st, 2012 at 12:11 pm

Have one more (because your flowery prose, or Tolkien-like “writing skills” deserve it):
http://s18.postimage.org/lgct0jivr/120531095149_roger_fed_t1a_t1_wide.jpg

September 21st, 2012 at 12:18 pm

EIETMO,

Male man don[t like Nadal beacuse he playues ugly. Simply as that, efficient, whole Yeah! Break down opponents, mind, game, selfs aasurance, right again. But execution wise, not that much. That’s why tennis community is so excited when he loses to Rosol likes, more than when Fed loses. Beacuse it’s a thing of beauty to see someone play an attacking offense tennis beat the best defensive player ever, those player who will retrieve anything. Occasionally high risk tennis will prevail.

Not saying Nadal doesn’t have talent, but you if you ask male in general, who’s game they will prefer to play, they will prefer Federer than Nadal. A few like to play like him and have the weapons and mind discipline to employee the same tactic over and over every single point. That’s why he is the single active player to have a comanidn HxH agaisnt Federer, and that’s what makes him so unique.
Try to play into the guys backhand the whole match for +2 hours. I can last a set, but eventually you start distributing balls around the court and forgot what you should do.

Another point, people keeps brings this “personality thing” but to me Nadal may have more personality on court (he transforms himself), but off court Federer’s is way more appealing and interesting, in almost every aspect, my opinion.

September 21st, 2012 at 12:30 pm

I’ll take a pot belly and 17 Slams. A olympian physique not required ;)

September 21st, 2012 at 12:48 pm

Peter,

Federer has a pot belly on top of solids abs. If you look at all pictures, you can see the obliques muscle on top of his hips proemint, the same muscles that goes in “V” format towards a man personal parts:)
All tennis playes has to have a solid abs foundation, even if you have some acumulation of fat on top of that, even Nalbandian had it. Not all are “cut” with the six pack showing, beacuse they have to have some reserve in the tanks when they need it.

September 21st, 2012 at 12:52 pm

@Daniel

Further proves love fans desire of watching Rafa over Fed, it’s all about the looks, not the game.

I’ll take a pot belly and 17 Slams. A olympian physique not required ;). Shotmaking is :)

@Daniel re: abs. Ya!

September 21st, 2012 at 1:01 pm

grendel, American Justin Gimelstob, in a new ATP article, confirms what we were correlating earlier: ““Serving is a lot like pitching in baseball. People get obsessed with speed, but it is the sum of all parts that makes a great server.”

Only he uses it, ironically, given the focus of our discussion, to describe Fed. But the correlation is still there.

The article is about “The Fantastic Four” – with lots of stats and such; here’s the link for anyone interested:

http://www.atpworldtour.com/News/Tennis/2012/09/Feature/RICOH-MatchFacts-Federer-Djokovic-Murray-Nadal-In-Own-League.aspx

September 21st, 2012 at 1:11 pm

Why, thankyou Peter – although personally, I’m not a fan of Tolkein. Looks like you are, though, with all that camp crypto Nazi imagery.

Potbelly? My dear man, just a bit of flesh for the missus to get hold of when she’s in the mood for a bit of the old how’s your father. Know what I mean, eh? Meanwhile, you want to see a pot belly, you come round and have a look at our local cricketers. Splendid bellies, they sport – ornaments of the nation!

But you can’t quite make your mind up, can you sunshine? What’s it to be – some Nazi marionette (but we’re careful not to mention the N word, maybe just a wee bit on the other side of acceptable even for the adoring faithful) but that’s alright, just pull out a few neat little slurs by association. Or is it to be some hairy slob probably dripping saliva and snot and whatnot. What a shame you had to choose – and then, genius! Combine the two!

jane

Yes, almost certainly correlation. But causal? That depends on the timing, I guess.

September 21st, 2012 at 2:15 pm

Peter Says:

“Federer hasn’t got a pot belly? Now don’t be so pedantic. This is poetic licence.”

“Not at all. A 5-minute googling can get you this:”

That’s why Armani wouldn’t sign Roger. Nalby or Roger, who wins th.e ATP Award for pot belly.

September 21st, 2012 at 2:20 pm

^Not quite. You must be referring to his ATP Sportsmen of the year award that he has earned a gazillion times.

Armani? What’s that? Is that related to PokerStars gambling site?
Fed is signed with Benz, not Kia, Fed is signed with Rolex, not Jumbotron watch, Fed is signed with Lindt fine chocolates, not cCrackers.

September 21st, 2012 at 2:37 pm

skeezer, don’t you worry. When Rafa comes back he’ll eat his quelys with some swiss cheese.

September 21st, 2012 at 2:54 pm

^ You are too funny. Keep posting. Lol

September 21st, 2012 at 3:08 pm

Sienna for the last time i already said Rogers more talented than Rafa,and in your opinion more watchable and your entitled to your opinion,just like i am entitled to my opinion when i say Rafa is more watchable in my eyes,but granted less talented,but its up to every individual as to who is the most watchable not a fact,and it has nothing at all to do with me hating Roger which as ive already said i dont,or my fun loving itch for Rafa,whom i like however although im not some heroworshipper though,and i have to ask what the eff has religion got to do with anything,and for the record religion means squat to me anyway,im not religious im an athiest.

September 21st, 2012 at 3:08 pm

Geez, grendel, you claimed Federer has no pot belly and you spluttered about Nazis.

I showed he does – and you spluttered about Nazis some more.

Give it a rest. Your fave is simply ugly to look at, both on and off court, where he often thinks he’s a teenager:
http://s18.postimage.org/lazwmu1k7/Av1nr0l_CAAAix_KL.jpg

As for his texbook game style – boring. He plays the way a sideshow magician does his tricks – wooden and pompous.

Tennis is a sport. Its beauty comes from unrestrained athletic effort, not from selfconscious posturing.

September 21st, 2012 at 3:10 pm

Peter, you put it so well.

I don’t understand how a sportsman can be derided for playing sport in a physical way whilst the so-called elegant ‘sportsman’ is admired by those who think they own a monopoly on how tennis should be played.

September 21st, 2012 at 3:14 pm

^”Tennis is a sport. Its beauty comes from unrestrained athletic effort”

YA!

Enter Roger Federer.

September 21st, 2012 at 3:17 pm

Just because Armani didnt sign up Roger does not make him any less off a player or person,niether does it make Rafa any less of a person or a player because he did,anyway besides both have their own endorsments,does it really matter who does what,seriously the Fedal wars are getting so tiresome lately.

September 21st, 2012 at 3:21 pm

Roger can’t be ‘elegant’ and athletic at the same time. Roger plays tennis with his hair intact throughout unless when Rafa roughs him up. He even admitted that it’s killing him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZZ6QK52aic

September 21st, 2012 at 3:25 pm

IMG_0104.JPG

September 21st, 2012 at 3:38 pm

@Alison: ”
Just because Armani didnt sign up Roger does not make him any less off a player or person,niether does it make Rafa any less of a person or a player because he did,anyway besides both have their own endorsments,does it really matter who does what,seriously the Fedal wars are getting so tiresome.” excellent post Alison. Unfortunately I believe that your voice of reason will be received by deaf ears by some here. This fedal thing will seemingly go on forever I fear- as for some it seems to be the only thing that matters!

September 21st, 2012 at 3:42 pm

EIEIO

You come from another Alien world. Roger is BOTH elegant AND Athletic. Still moves like a dancer at 31, but his dance floor is the Tennis court.

According to all you idiots, Roger has won 17 Slams by being Lucky ( my favorite one ), by having a pot belly, not being athletic, elegant, etc.

Its funny how you types NEVER want to discuss Mr. Rafael Nadals habits, his weaknesses, his 7 all time record consecutive losses in finals, his last H2H against Fed = LOSS. Go ahead and pick on Fed. I am smiling with the current #1 in the world and 17 Slams, and it air up here is fine :). You’ll never take his all time achievements away by your banter and jealously

out

September 21st, 2012 at 3:52 pm

”Everyone is entitled to my opinion Says:
Huh Says:

EIETMO

“be it finishin a tennis point or the university syllabus, whoever does it sooner is more talented! and fed is the king of finshin points swiftly, so more talented!”

Why did Federer take 5 hours+ to lose to Rafa in the 2008 Wimbledon final and the 2009 AO final, and it took Rafa less than 2 hrs to dismiss Federer in the 2008 RG final?”

thanks for askin me 2 good questions to make my job easier, lol ;)

the ans to 1st question is its coz rafa wasn’t good enough to beat fed in straight sets despite fed playin quite subpar n fed was even mentally unsettled! still rafa choked the 3rd and 4th sets, lol ;)

the ans to 2nd question can be given to you by askin you to refer to the USO 09 semi of Rafa v. Delpo, lol ;)

have a nice time! ;)

September 21st, 2012 at 4:03 pm

Huh. Am going to but in here. USO semi ’09 Rafa v Delpo – Rafa played with a torn stomach muscle against Almagro, then Gonzales (if I remember correctly) and then Delpo. He did very well to reach the semis.

September 21st, 2012 at 4:11 pm

Giles

i know it, but the end result is the same. like the torn stomach affected rafa’s form, but then again, any objective fan would acknowledge that the mono has wreaked havoc with fed’s momentum n confidence n have similarly affected fed’s form during 2008. i hope you remember the scar on fed’s cheek in that RG 08. it’s not like rafa was playin in wheelchair exactly. in fact he destroed gonzo just before JMDP match!

if one brings up torn stomach thing for rafa, then he can’t deny fed’s problem either! both fed n rafa had been compromised at different points of their career, that’s my point only! regards.

September 21st, 2012 at 4:18 pm

”skeezer says

I’ll take a pot belly and 17 Slams. A olympian physique not required ;). Shotmaking is :)”

LOVE IT!!

” again skeezer says

Both have more Slams than anyone, but there is no doubt Fed is the Maestro on the court. He uses his stick like a wand commanding notes from his symphony, not like someone wielding a Bat trying to swat flies in the air and trying to hit anything, anyone and everyone in sight.”

SUPER-LOVE IT, particularly the swaating flies thing, LOL ;)

YOU’RE ON A ROLL SKEEZE!!! :D JUST LOVIN IT!!! ;)

September 21st, 2012 at 4:31 pm

Lourdes Garzón interviews the “Vanity Fair” Personality of the Year and discovers the Nadal factor: a combination of talent, intelligence and perseverance.

That’s enough for me. Whatever Federer has going for him doesn’t affect who Rafa is.

September 21st, 2012 at 4:37 pm

My poor Peter, you must learn to read English if you wish to conduct yourself in that language. No, I didn’t say Federer had no pot belly, I mocked your attribution of one to him. I know the difference may be a little subtle for you, but it will be alright. Just say to yourself every night before you go to bed:”every day, in every way, I shall become a wiser and cleverer Peter”. Repeat ten times, and I feel sure Peter that within a month, or possibly in your case a year, all sorts of things which were a sort of mist to you will start to take shape, and you will clap your hands and jump with joy.

Now, back to pot bellies. You see Peter, we’re not talking about statues here, or the statuesque for that matter. Real human beings, as opposed to gymn generated zombies, have flesh on their frame. Now Peter, listen carefully, if they have a great deal of this flesh hanging over their belts, we say: they have pot bellies. But if they have just a bit, we say they’re normal Peter, we don’t say they have pot bellies. We reserve that term for those with a massive excess of flesh. That’s how we use English – now I know that’s tricky, but remember your bedtime mantra Peter, and I am sure all will be well. In time.

And now, spluttering about Nazis. Well done, Peter, that’s quite good. Let me tell you just how, all the same, it doesn’t work. We don’t make direct attributions of Nazism, do we Peter, because, well it sounds silly doesn’t it, and we definitely don’t want to sound silly. So we root around in our little minds to try and find the most offensive imagery we possibly can – but always being very careful not to mention Hitler or anything like that – and we come up, by associations of ideas which are largely unconscious (don’t worry about that word Peter, I’ll have a word with you in private later and do my best to explain it to you)which oddly enough have their provenance in fascism. Shall we stick with fascism rather than Nazism Peter – a bit less grandiloquent, don’t you think? The spider as adduced by you is pure Tolkein and it is associated with a very dark side of life, Peter – a side which we generally recognize as fascistic. But of course this is a modern term, and anyway, we don’t want to get too hung up on names, do we? It’s the idea, Peter. And then those stomping flatfoots and high kicking legs, oh Peter, Peter, such a giveaway! But I tell you what. Let’s forget about nazism, you couldn’t help it -for one thing, I hadn’t given you your mantra yet – lets just say it’s a John Cleese silly walk, you know, from Monty Python.

That would, after all, go hand in hand with the very silly things you say about Federer. You do know, don’t you Peter, that one can’t really be expected to argue against them. They are, after all, from the kindergarten, and we know, don’t we Peter, how some children like to draw attention to themselves by saying things which they themselves know very well are the exact opposite of the truth.

You see Peter, if you don’t like somebody, the grown up thing to do is not to invent all sorts of silly lies about them, because that will come back and hurt you in the end. Oh, we must not tell lies, must we. We just have to face up to our dislikes, Peter, we all have them, it’s quite alright, you don’t have to be frightened – Peter, some people get very frightened by their negative feelings for other individuals – you just accept that this is how it is and move on. And we recognize, Peter, that when we are animated by spite – and we are feeling just a little bit malicious, aren’t we Peter, mmn? – that we are really not in the best position to understand even in the slightest that person who has somehow got under our skin.

And now Peter, don’t forget your mantra. I am sure it will be very healing for you.

September 21st, 2012 at 4:43 pm

”Polo Says:
To EIETMO re: “Polo, and your point is?”
Do I have to explain everything to you?”

well said polo!!!

—————————-

”Everyone is entitled to my opinion Says:

Lourdes Garzón interviews the “Vanity Fair” Personality of the Year and discovers the Nadal factor: a combination of talent, intelligence and perseverance.

That’s enough for me. Whatever Federer has going for him doesn’t affect who Rafa is.

That’s enough for me. Whatever Federer has going for him doesn’t affect who Rafa is.”

and not to forget the vice versa!

September 21st, 2012 at 4:44 pm

grendel, super great post @September 21st, 2012 at 9:29 am! thanks for puttin poor peter in his place! :D

Daniel fantastic post @September 21st, 2012 at 12:30 pm!

and you’re right skeeze, EIETMO n Peter r green with jealousy, lol! :D

September 21st, 2012 at 5:05 pm

only a person bored n frustrated with his/her own failures would say that fed is ugly lookin, not elegant or unathletic! SUPER LOSERS, HAHAHA!!!

September 21st, 2012 at 5:07 pm

”That would, after all, go hand in hand with the very silly things you say about Federer. You do know, don’t you Peter, that one can’t really be expected to argue against them. They are, after all, from the kindergarten, and we know, don’t we Peter, how some children like to draw attention to themselves by saying things which they themselves know very well are the exact opposite of the truth. ”

SO VERY WELL SAID GRENDEL!!! completely agree, that peter guy’s totally postin super crap n bumper lies!

September 21st, 2012 at 5:19 pm

grendel suggested the ”perfect mantra” for peter! :D

September 21st, 2012 at 5:21 pm

Huh i would take Roger any day over some prima donna,over paid,over hyped,over rated,bed hopping footballer with the morals of an alley cat.

September 21st, 2012 at 5:29 pm

alison

you’re welcome to do that, good decision imo! :D

September 21st, 2012 at 5:33 pm

Huh a fortune teller once told me,that i would have 2 children but would only be pregnant once,even though i dont have children my father in law is a twin,so it runs in the family,should Roger ever get fed up with his lovely wife Mirka(which i very much doubt that he will),er anyway draw your own conclusions LOL.

September 21st, 2012 at 5:42 pm

alison ;)

September 21st, 2012 at 6:35 pm

alison

similarly i assure u that so long m there(no matter single or not!), girls like sharapova, ivanovic, kirilenkko or my darling robson can stop worryin about loneliness! m always avaliabl for any gal anytime! spreadin love, LOL ;)

September 21st, 2012 at 6:38 pm

When did tennis become a beauty contest? Anyway,
put Nadal side by side with Marat Safin then let the girls take their pick.

September 21st, 2012 at 7:18 pm

Who is the best #4 in the World?

Rafael Nadal.

September 21st, 2012 at 9:03 pm

Who is the best in tennis history in beating roger federer?

Rafael Nadal.

Who in the top 4 is the one who most adores the challenge of playing the man labelled the GOAT?

Rafael Nadal.

Who is the one who is disliked the most by the fans of roger federer, since he committed the oh so rotten, hideous, evil crime of beating him on far too many occasions in so many big matches?

Rafael Nadal.

And finally, who is the one who is out injured, inactive and yet has a thread that is dominated with the fans of roger federer talking about everything from his looks, popularity with women to his tennis shots?

Rafael Nadal.

September 21st, 2012 at 10:34 pm

Brando,

With all due respect this thread started by ….

“So, if Rafa is the greatest of this era, how can Roger be the greatest of all time?”

Fed was being pissed on from the very start of this thread.

If you continue to read the posts form E-I-E-I-O you can plainly see why she belongs on the farm of Rafa and the rest of the animals chimed in.

If it(the thread) stuck to Rafa the man, the legend, his OWN accomplishments, then I would find it hard to believe that most sincere Fed fans would have chimed in to counter. They don’t need justfication value based on Rafa. He has accomplished 17 Slams against the whole field of players on a complete varety of surfaces which includes Rafael Nadal. I believe Rafa plays in Feds ERA, No? Along with Murray, Nole, Sampras, Agassi Safin, Hewitt, Delpo, Guga, all who have won Slams in Feds playing ERA. Who has come out on top with Slam counts?
Why does Rafa fans find it of neccesary value to step on Fed while climbing the justification ladder? They always have to point that out, insecurity and jealousy. And Wow, to me then, Fed must be the greatest ever. They never want to talk abut the whoop ass Novak gave him in 7 consecutive finals in a row. No value in that right? Never a comment about that, but a constant yell from the rooftops about how Rafa has a h2h against the tired, old, ugly, pot belly, boring, has been Fed(wait….forgot…he’s still#1 at 31…. How can that be? Dang! Lucky again! )

But I cannot speak for everyone else, only myself. I try my best to defend the man when attacked unjustly, then the offense is o.

September 22nd, 2012 at 1:05 am

“So, if Rafa is the greatest of this era, how can Roger be the greatest of all time?”

That’s a valid question that no Fedfan wants asked because they don’t like the answer.

September 22nd, 2012 at 2:06 am

Polo have to say as a female i couldnt pick between Rafa and Marat as both are equally good looking IMO,however i have to say i would pick the gorgeous James Blake over both,absolute class and such a gentleman.

September 22nd, 2012 at 2:14 am

@jane
Very interesting point u made about how early involvement in a national sport might later influence a tennis player’s style.
Will now ponder…;)
Most gr8 sports players can turn their hand to other sports quite easily it seems eg Rafa and Lendl and their golf.
Which reminds me of a once upon a time poster who, very amusingly, used the moniker “Golf Is Not A Sport.”

September 22nd, 2012 at 2:29 am

@Polo 7.18
The media plus celebrity culture, I’d guess. And some of the female stars have made a lot of money out of their looks, so I suppose that encourages the “beauty contest” element.
@Jamie
lol your comment re Andy. No, it’s certainly not his looks that make me love the way he plays…..but there again, shallow moi? Oh surely not…;)

September 22nd, 2012 at 2:35 am

it’s only maniacal jealous n frustrated nadal fans who think nadal is greater than fed. they definitely need their pills to heal! ;)

how can nadal be great when he’s beaten in 7 consecutiv finals by nole?

how can rafa be greater than fed when rafa has negativ record against his 2 main rivals fed n nole on non-clay??

how can rafa be great when he gets beaten in straight set by unheralded tsonga, ferrer n gonzalez??

how can rafa be greater than fed when he’s made just two finals each at AO/USO??

nobody’s more skewwed performance in all surfaces than nadal!

how can nadal be great when unseeded players kick his butt?

how can nadal be great when he can’t beat davydenko even, that too only once at HC? ;)

how can nadal be great without winnin year end championship? ;)

September 22nd, 2012 at 3:20 am

nadal greater than fed only in dreamland, not in reality, n not in planet earth! :D

September 22nd, 2012 at 3:22 am

alison!!!

james blake over safin n nadal???????????

what???????????????

no!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

September 22nd, 2012 at 3:23 am

@Huh
ur 3:20 am post was great. U have brought down some great points. But unfortunately u are going to get some lame excuses from SOME rafa fans and others might try to change the topic, again, with some lame logics :)

September 22nd, 2012 at 4:00 am

As John McEnroe astutely pointed out,

“it’s hard for Federer to be considered the greatest player of all time when he’s lost to Rafa nearly twice as many times as he’s beaten him. He might not even be the best player of his own era.”

September 22nd, 2012 at 4:32 am

I like McEnroe. One of the reasons he is so engaging is that he can contradict himself ten times before breakfast without battering an eyelid. Point out to him that he just said the exact opposite 5 minutes ago, and he’ll give you a bit of Irish patter with an engaging grin, and within seconds you’ve both forgotten what it was all about. He can’t stop talking, but that twinkle in the eye does suggest he doesn’t take himself too seriously. Some people might learn from that. Although, on the other hand, that might be a little much to ask…..

September 22nd, 2012 at 4:39 am

grendel, that’s interesting as it was McEnroe who first mooted about Federer being the greatest of all time before the whole thing got out of control like a bush fire.

September 22nd, 2012 at 5:53 am

And McEnroe will again say Federer is the greatest of all time. And on another occasion he will say that it doesn’t make sense to talk about the greatest of all time. And on a third he will say Nadal is better than Federer and on a 4th he will say the h2h’s are skewed and actually Federer is better than Nadal but anyway Djokovic is better than both and on a 5th he will say Federer is better than Djokovic who is better than Nadal but meanwhile it looks like Murray is going to be better than all of them – and meanwhile, what about a double whisky?

September 22nd, 2012 at 7:27 am

McEnroe has a tendency to be over the top in praising any player in any match that he is commentating on. Everybody becomes the best of something when McEnroe is on the mike.

September 22nd, 2012 at 7:54 am

grendel you’ve made the point very well that because the talk of GOAT came from McEnroe in the first place no one should have run with it.

September 22nd, 2012 at 8:40 am

Mac has been sayin that for years, nothing new here, why are you still groping and moping GOAT Fed?

Post Wimby 2012

John McEnroe put it right after the match, “We’re talking about the greatest player to ever step on the court.”

http://www.atpchampionstour.com/news62.html

http://www.jockbio.com/Bios/Federer/Federer_they-say.html

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Roger_Federer

In 2011 received Stefan Edberg Sportsmanship Award for the seventh time and selected as ATPWorldTour.com Fans’ Favourite presented by RICOH for a record ninth consecutive year.

Laver wrote on the 100 players of all time, Fed was #1

EIEIO

Please pick a Rafa topic, this is his thread. We can give Fed more praises on a Fed thread. Thank you.

Now, what is the Spanish Vanity Fair thing?

September 22nd, 2012 at 10:33 am

Post Wimby 2012

John McEnroe put it right after the match, “We’re talking about the greatest player to ever step on the court.”

http://www.policymic.com/articles/10879/roger-federer-wins-record-7th-wimbledon-title-confirms-he-is-the-king-of-tennis

September 22nd, 2012 at 10:36 am

OK. Enough about Federer on Rafa’s thread.

September 22nd, 2012 at 11:25 am

@Skeezer:

-’With all due respect’: It’s mutual first and foremost. I read your posts as your a ‘house poster’ who’s been posting here alot longer than I, but most importantly has seen the game, played the game and understands the game ALOT better than I. So i noticed your post, as I value your opinion.

Truth is, i did not read or (or do i ever read) Everyone is entitled to my opinion posts- i mean with a name like that you just know the type of posts that are going to be contributed.

-’ then I would find it hard to believe that most sincere Fed fans would have chimed in to counter. They don’t need justfication value based on Rafa. ‘:I absolutely agree with this statement- and I have to say most sincere rafa fans (the likes of Alison, Kimberly and i ope even myself) WOULD NOT disrespect fed or is fans unnecessarily. Any sincere fan on either side would not.

- ‘all who have won Slams in Feds playing ERA. Who has come out on top with Slam counts?’ Fair point. The way i see it is that tennis- as in other sports- sets records that are meant to be broken. Now Fed’s records are quite clearly the best, hence when people INCLUDING rafa himself call him the best ever (and so do I) then it’s a pretty sound thing to say. In all honesty,I never look at rafa and his achievement’s in comparison to fed since UNTIL/ UNLESS rafa were to level fed’s slam count, it would be unfair on rafa to compare the 2. He has to LEVEL fed’s slam count first before an argument can justifiably begin. Until then- I personally doubt rafa will ever get 17 slams- it is unfair on rafa to compare him to fed, and somewhat disrespectful to fed, comparing him to someone who has achieved not enough as him. Especially silly, when both are still playing the game- as we do not know what their end will be.

- ‘ They never want to talk abut the whoop ass Novak gave him in 7 consecutive finals in a row. No value in that right?’ LOL, thankfully nole’s fans rarely, if ever, bring that one up The way i see that is: sure nole beat him 7 finals in a row, but rafa has beat him 5 finals and matches in a row in the past- and presently is 3 in a row. He also leads the h2h in all categories EXCEPT HC, where he was 2 games away from beating nole in his favourite slam (AO) and a game away from beating him in his favourite MS event in straight sets , Miami masters. So there is hope for rafa on that front. Ultimately though, credit has to be given where it is due- and sometimes you have to admit that the other guy is just quite simply playing the better tennis and is the better player at the moment, and nole CERTAINLY WAS the better player in those matches. As rafa said himself- he simply was too good. No shame in losing 6 matches to a player who ONLYlost 2 matches in the yeartill that point: one a retirement and another due to a certain Roger Federer (he’s an OK player at times right?) who, IMHO, gave the best ever clay performance that i have ever seen from him in order to beat novak- which is saying quite alot given fed’s talent. So IMHO, rafa was up against a beast of player in frightening form- so there is no shame in losing to nole at time, in that moment. Heck, rather be RU in finals than out in R64 or whatever else right?

- ‘ Never a comment about that, but a constant yell from the rooftops about how Rafa has a h2h’. Again fair point. When trolls use rafa’s h2h v fed, they use it for the silly, inane purpose of trying to belittle fed- the h2h quite smply is not good enough for such a purpose, but trolls think it is so. They are foolish for thinking as such. But if sincere rafa fans mention it, it usually is for a reason- and ultimately let’s face it: having a positive h2h against the GOAT is a fantastic achievement for rafa, IMHO. It’s something to cherish- and i think his peers, fans and critics respect him for it since it is a tough thing to do- beating Roger Federer in a tennis match- for anyone. Even at the age of 31, which speaks volumes about roger’s talent.

-’old, ugly, pot belly, boring, has been Fed(wait….forgot…he’s still#1 at 31…. How can that be? Dang! Lucky again! )’: LMAO- ANYONE who think’s fed has a pot belly is quite simply an idiot. I’m soory but they have no idea what a pot belly is, since does not have one at all. As Daniel said, fed has a perfectly fine V shaped chest, especially strong upper body. ONLY the blind would think otherwise.

- ‘But I cannot speak for everyone else, only myself. I try my best to defend the man when attacked unjustly, then the offense is o.’: That is fine and completely UNDERSTANDABLE- and i respect the fact that you defend your fav as such. Skeez your an excellent poster, as Grendel has noted, and the house posters recognise you as such. My only wish is that you do not mix in and duke out posts with the silly fools who look to belittle fed at each and every oppurtunity, since that is what they are- silly fools. It’s a waste of time, i have found, and it usually stops you from adding quality posts to the topic on hand- which you very often do, bringing great insight to the debate.

So i a apologise for the length of this post ( must be as long as one of Dave’s posts right) but i hope it clears everything regarding this particular area of the game. Upwards and onwards i say.

September 22nd, 2012 at 11:57 am

grendel

great post about jmac n his vacillations n mood swings!

secondly, i agree with skeeze that the criticism which EIETMO meted out to fed should’ve been on a fed thread instead of a nadal thread so that at least the praises of fed woulda been on federer thread instead of nadal’s. EIETMO is totally responsibl for all this criticism of nadal on a nadal thread. he should be ashamed of himself.

it’s really unfortunate that such bitter(but JUSTIFIED) criticism of nadal had to be made on a nadal thread. nadal certainly deserved not to be overshadowed by fed discussion, at least on a nadal thread.

but when you’ve jealous n pathetic anti-fed arguers like EIETMO who try to distort facts n spout absolute nonsense n lies, this was bound to happen.

and i’ve not even talked about the character lacunaes of nadal out of pure respect both for rafa n also for absolutely fantastic n fair rafa fans like brando n alison.

ENOUGH ABOUT FEDERER INDEED ON A NADAL THREAD. I’M OUT.

September 22nd, 2012 at 11:57 am

one thing though i want to make clear that i DO NOT ENDORSE AT ALL some of the baseless accusations n criticisms of nadal that sienna makes… only god knows why!

and it makes absolute no sense to me when all that people have to do is to pick up nadal’s hair to criticise, i mean WTF!

September 22nd, 2012 at 12:02 pm

@Huh:

‘one thing though i want to make clear that i DO NOT ENDORSE AT ALL some of the baseless accusations n criticisms of nadal that sienna makes… only god knows why!

and it makes absolute no sense to me when all that people have to do is to pick up nadal’s hair to criticise, i mean WTF!’

I’m with you on that one Huh- so that makes two of us on that front!

September 22nd, 2012 at 12:32 pm

Brando,

No apologies necessary, Thanks and great post! You made may day and I try to play better ;)

September 22nd, 2012 at 12:48 pm

Great post Brando and i agree with what you say about Rafas H2H against Roger,any sensible fan would say thats a fantastic achievement,for Rafa to have such a great record against the GOAT,however that should be the only reason for bringing that up,not to bring it into a discussion merely as a way to belittle Rogers achievements.

September 22nd, 2012 at 12:50 pm

Let me finish this and add “Congratulations” to Rafael Nadal’s Man of the Year award by Vanity Fair.

“The magazine said they chose Rafa not only for his French Open title but also for his brilliance, talent and intelligence.”

Vamos!

September 22nd, 2012 at 12:50 pm

Let me finish this and add “Congratulations” to Rafael Nadal’s Man of the Year award by Vanity Fair.

“The magazine said they chose Rafa not only for his French Open title but also for his brilliance, talent and intelligence.”

Vamos!

September 22nd, 2012 at 12:50 pm

^ Sorry for the double post…..a Rafa fan made me do it!

J/K

September 22nd, 2012 at 12:51 pm

skeezer. A generous comment deserves to be posted twice! :-)

September 22nd, 2012 at 1:28 pm

A Lovely post from Skeezer well done,and well said.

September 22nd, 2012 at 1:41 pm

@Skeezer:

Thanks for the kind words. Glad you liked the post. And as Alison and Giles mentioned, thanks for the generous praise regarding rafa.

September 22nd, 2012 at 2:11 pm

@Alison:

Thanks as ever- I try to see the game as clearly and fairly as you seem do so easily Alison. Love your posts!

September 22nd, 2012 at 2:14 pm

Brando thanks to you too,and right back atcha love your posts too.

September 22nd, 2012 at 2:21 pm

that’s very nice n graceful of skeeze, n i’d also like to join to CONGRATULATE RAFAEL NADAL, THE MAN & TENNIS LEGEND, for his vanity fair award…

felicitaciones rafa nadal!!! :D

September 22nd, 2012 at 6:11 pm

Missing pre Wimby 2012 hype, last time we knew for sure top 4 would play:(

Now we can even make a pool on what will be the next tourney where top 4 will play? Any guess?!

September 23rd, 2012 at 1:43 am

Daniel, do you know when Rafa is coming back? If b4 the end of the year, it could be WTF? But if not, guess will be AO.
Seems quite strange put like that, but seem to remember Rafa didn’t play that much towards the end of last year, either.

September 23rd, 2012 at 2:12 am

Big thanks from Huh too,nice when you hear such positive things about your favorite.

September 23rd, 2012 at 2:16 am

This injury time out will be another notch on Rafa’s credentials as a great athlete who can overcome adversity because of the strength of his character.

It’s easy to walk by still waters but overcoming rough patches is what makes you a winner.

September 23rd, 2012 at 12:25 pm

^ Well said!

September 23rd, 2012 at 1:02 pm

Maybe for now we can have some more flavor in mens tennis, not so much pong and extended time periods to hit each ball and to change sides. Back to some spicey variety and flair, thats what the game needs!

Blandness and forever “just get the ball in play” twill be behind us, no?

Grip and rip, chip and charge, take a chance, have courage, less defending, more attack and reward. Never been a bettertime than right now!

October 1st, 2012 at 1:05 am

Thanks guys! Happy to get the get the award while recuperating. Will be back stronger than before.

October 5th, 2012 at 2:52 pm

RAFA IS THE MOST HUMBLE SPORTSMAN I HAVE EVER SEEN . WHOEVER SAID HE MAKES FUNNY STATEMENTS PLEASE REMEMBER ENGLISH IS NOT HIS FIRST LANGUAGE. THE WAY HE SPEAKS WHEN HE LOSES IS ALSO VERY GOOD . JUST LOOK AT THE WAY HE LOST TO HIS MATE DAVID FERRER AT THE AUS OPEN ,THE MEDIA TRIED TO TELL RAFA WAS IT BECAUSE YOU WERE INJURED, THEN RAFA TOLD THEM TO F OFF AND TOLD THEM FERRER PLAYED BETTER THAN HE DID.

October 14th, 2012 at 9:13 pm

The Award was man of the year, he won it not just for the French open title but for his talent brillance and intelligence.
Why dont the critics understand that the award was not for greatest tennis player of all time so why do some of you say that some players were better. Even if the critics are correct it is not relevant.
I am extremely biased towards rafa and I dont think he is the greatest player of all time but i do think he is the greatest Roland Garros player of all time that doesnt stop me being a rafa fan and it doesnt stop me thinking he should have won the award and it doesnt stop him being my favourite player of all time.
Lets put this another way If I say “I totaly dislike Justine Henin” why do people say she was and still is a top player . It is absolutely true Justine Henin is a very good player but i was saying I dont like her and even though I agree she was and still is very good I still think she is a pain in the neck.
so next time you want to criticise please read what the award was for .
Good luck Rafa gratz on the award and I am looking forward to you proving even myself wrong and show us all you are the greatest player of all time even though I think you are in the top 5 greatest players of all time.

October 14th, 2012 at 11:22 pm

Hey Roger’s fans.

Remind me, when was the last time Federer beat Nadal in a Grand Slam? Sorry, it was so long ago, I cannot remember. It was in, like, 2007 or something, right?

And who did Federer beat for winning half of his Grand Slams that you guys are so proud of? Safin? Roddick? Hewitt? I mean the period 2003-2006.

Who did Nadal beat for his 11 Grand Slams that you guys say thay they are overachieved? Federer, of course. And Djokovic, Murray, Del Portro.

Aaah, Roddick and Hewittt, at their best, are no match for Federer or Djokovic at their best, right?

October 22nd, 2012 at 12:50 am