Thank you, Tom Gainey, numbers don’t lie.

#Humble

March 15th, 2013 at 10:12 am

Numbers are skewed because djokovic and federer are much better on clay than nadal is outside it.

out of a possible 25% common tournaments on clay, federer and djokovic have played 50% of their matches on their worst surface and nadal’s bet.

outside of clay, even guillermo garcia lopez and his mom have beaten nadal.

It is similar to sampras’ winning record against agassi. They never played much on clay, where agassi would wipe the floor with sampras.

Similarly mcenroe and borg. borg never got to play mcenroe on clay, which is borg’s best. but being a quitter, borg left when his h2h was 7-7 with mcenroe.

Fed on the other-hand braved this anomaly of having a losing record to a one-surface player like rafa and has added 6 more GS than borg and much more weeks at no.1 than borg could ever achieve.

March 15th, 2013 at 10:22 am

Federer and Djokovic are better players than nadal because they have better record than nadal at 3 out of the 5 big tournaments every year [4slams and year end championship]. In Federer’s case it is 4 out of the 5.

4AO to 1, 7Wimbledon to 2, 5usopen to 1, 6 year ends championships to 0. 300 weeks to 100 weeks at no.1

oh you can look at atp fan favorite awards, laureus awards, atp sportsmanship awards and the like.

Nadal’s numbers are muster like, too dependant on clay – a surface not considered very important in the developed world [uk, us, australia, germany etc]

March 15th, 2013 at 10:27 am

did you know murray has a higher winning % on hardcourts than buttpicker?

March 15th, 2013 at 10:43 am

Agree with Andrew Tennis.

March 15th, 2013 at 10:47 am

Great Achievement Rafa. Keep going champ.

March 15th, 2013 at 11:05 am

The statistics put out there just shows who is the GOAT. It is Rafael the BULL. Statistics do not lie. If you are really a GOAT, you must be unbeatable by the top players. Take the supposed GOAT (Ha Ha Ha) Roger. He has a negative H2H against Rafael (obviously), Murray and nowadays even Berdych is making a mincemeat of him. Against Djokovic, he is barely ahead which means he is not the best player out there !!!!!

March 15th, 2013 at 11:31 am

OK, so some fans cannot handle the FACTS that these numbers paint- sour grapes i guess.

Let’s entertain their misery for a while. So Rafa v the top players, h2h, is the topic of the thread and the miser’s are miffed at the success against their fav’s- aw…. you poor thing, let me console you with a clear BREAKDOWN of it all- just so that your confused minds do not distort the obvious:

1- Rafa v ROGER FEDERER:

The FACTS are:

1- Rafa LEADS the OVERALL h2h: 19-10
2- Rafa LEADS all FINALS: 13-6
3- Rafa LEADS all GS MATCHES h2h: 8-2

(On a 5 MATCH WINNING STREAK in that regard)

4- Rafa LEADS fed 2-0 at AO and 5-0 at FO. They have NEVER played at USO
5- Rafa LEADS GS FINALS: 6-2
6- Rafa LEAD in MS MATCHES: 10-4
7- Rafa LEADS in MS FINALS: 6-3
8- Rafa LEADS in BEST OF 5 MATCHES: 10-3
9- Rafa LEADS in 5 SET THRILLERS: 3-2
10- Rafa LEADS in 3 SET MATCHES: 9-7

SURFACES:

11- Rafa LEADS on CLAY: 12-2
12- Rafa LEADS on OUTDOOR HC: 6-2

Rafa LEADS fed in virtually all departments so far.

However, NO RIVALRY is 100% one sided when it comes to the legends. Fed ONLY leads in:

1- Grass: 2-1 in his favor.

In this regard, Rafa beat fed in the match many consider the best of all time.

He lost his first grass final aged a MERE 20 YEARS OLD to fed in a 4 set match. Fed NEVER had been in a Wimby final as Rafa had at that age.

He lost to Fed in a 5 SET MATCH in 2007, were Fed said ON COURT that he was LUCKY TO WIN. Rafa had BP chances in the 5th set in that match and ONLY lost 2 sets in TIE BREAKS.

Aged a MERE 21 YEARS OLD- Fed had NEVER played a wimby final at that age.

This shows how CLOSE Rafa was to Fed in those encounters for a VERY, VERY YOUNG contender!

2- Fed LEADS Rafa 4-0 on INDOOR COURTS.

CLEARLY FED is dominant in this environment and is better than Rafa- in fact he is the BEST EVER on INDOOR.

THAT’S IT!

CONCLUSION:

BAR INDOOR, RAFA has CLEARLY shown that he can more than push Fed on ANY surface in any format, best of 5 or 3.

To KNOCK Rafa’s performance as purely Clay based based would be sheer IDIOCY and quite simply put: IGNORANT.

These are the FACTS- CHECK THEM if need to be!

2- Rafa v NOVAK DJOKOVIC:

The FACTS are:

1- Rafa LEADS the OVERALL h2h: 19-14
2- Rafa LEADS the ALL FINALS: 8-7
3- Rafa LEADS the GS MATCHES: 6-3
4- Rafa LEADS THE MS FINALS: 5-4

SURFACES:

1- Rafa LEADS on CLAY: 12-2
2- Rafa LEADS on GRASS: 2-1
3- Rafa is LEVEL on INDOOR: 2-2

The ONLY aspects in which DJOKOVIC leads are:

1- GS FINALS: 3-2

Had rafa won a 2 MERE GAMES at AO, Novak’s best slam, he would be leading in this regard.

CONCEIVABLY Rafa could meet and beat Novak at FO at make it 3-3. It’s a possibility.

2- ALL MS MATCHES: 10-8

Rafa is behind by a MERE 2 matches here. Not bad.

3- OUTDOOR HC: 9-3

Rafa has BEAT Nole at the USO FINAL, IW FINAL, OLYMPICS SF at CHINA OPEN venue.

He was 2 MERE POINTS away from beating nole in MIAMI MS FINAL in straight sets in 2011.

He was 2 MERE GAMES away from beating Nole in AO FINAL in 2012.

CLEARLY Nole is better on OUTDOOR HC, BUT Rafa has shown that he can be COMPETITIVE v Nole in this regard- he certainly has a shot against him than many other players not named FEDERER or MURRAY on this surface at least.

CONCLUSION:

BAR OUTDOOR HC, Rafa is doing well v Nole- CLEARLY. And even on OUTDOOR HC he is COMPETITIVE to a degree- even at Nole’s best HC events:

AO- Pushed him to the brink
MIAMI- Pushed him to the brink
USO- BEAT HIM
IW- BEAT HIM
CHINA OPEN Surface- BEAT HIM

SO he can be competitive v Nole on this surface- even though nole is the better HC player, of course.

BEST from the rest: ANDY MURRAY:

FACTS here are:

1- Rafa LEADS in the OVERALL h2h: 13-5
2- Rafa LEADS on CLAY: 4-0
3- Rafa LEADS on GRASS: 3-0
4- Rafa LEADS on INDOOR: 1-0
5- Rafa is LEVEL on OUTDOOR HC: 4-4

CLEARLY Rafa matches up well v MUZZA. FACTS suggests as such- OUTSIDE CLAY!

BOTTOM LINE:

I am NOT saying Rafa is superior OR inferior to FED, NOLE, MUZZA or OTHERS.

What I wish to point out is that rafa is COMPETITIVE v the top players- even OUTSIDE CLAY on the other surfaces.

To say he is ONLY A CLAY SPECIALIST, IMO is WRONG and quite IGNORANT of REALITY!

My 2 cents on this front!

March 15th, 2013 at 11:31 am

PS:

NO ONE ever takes out a surface when one looks at h2h between players- so WHY the DOUBLE STANDARDS v Rafa?

IF players are concerned about their h2h v Rafa and think clay screws them over then they should simply not turn up- as clearly they must turn up thinking they have a chance!

Rafa fans NEVER feel compelled to take out surfaces v other players, so fans should respond in kind.

BOTTOM LINE:

FACTS are FACTS.

SKEWING THEM in order to paint a favorable picture or a BIASED AGENDA is NOT going to change the REALITY of them!

March 15th, 2013 at 11:36 am

Well put out Brando !!!! Federer fans are incorrigible lot to put lot of excuses for his pathetic defeat. Even Federer denied that his back problem played any role in his overwhelming defeat.

March 15th, 2013 at 11:36 am

@ Sean Randall:

I am a Rafa fan and it brings a smile to my face!

:-)

FACT is Rafa is going on to be 27 and he LEADS and ALWAYS has done so v FED, NOLE, MUZZA- that is a TREMENDOUS ACHIEVEMENT IMHO.

It DOES NOT say he is better than them- Rafa HIMSELF doesn’t say that at all.

It just shows that he is COMPETITIVE v those guys.

And this chart indicates that he is COMPETITIVE v other’s too.

As a fan of his, i find that to be an AWESOME achievement by Rafa!

VAMOS CHAMP!

March 15th, 2013 at 11:39 am

@Borg:

Thanks.

I RESPECT FED completely.

LIKE RAFA- i think Fed is the GOAT.

NO DOUBT about it.

HOWEVER, SOME (not all) of his fans need to be like their fav:

ACCEPT THE H2H LIKE A MAN and NOT WHINGE ABOUT IT!

The FACTS are the facts- NO POINT making x,y,z number of EXCUSES!

March 15th, 2013 at 11:42 am

Brando !! These Federer fans are the most silliest lot I have ever seen. If Rafael beats Federer in Indian Wells or Miami they will say it is slow hard courts which plays like Clay. If Rafael beats Federer at Wimbledon, they will say the grass has slowed down. If it is on Clay, nodoubt they will not even consider this as a surface which is ridiculous considering that Clay is the natural Tennis surface and most of the club matches are being played on that. If Federer is not able to play on Clay, hard courts and Grass where he will be able to play him ? On indoor courts. May be. It is only there Federer is looking like a better player but in all other venues, he is looking like a roasted lamb out there with Rafael chewing it.

March 15th, 2013 at 11:47 am

@Borg:

LOL, take it easy my fellow fan.

IMHO: YES you are right- there are some SERIOUSLY IGNORANT fans that call themselves fed fans.

We have one such example already on this thread.

Yet the TRUTH is some fans of such caliber even say they are RAFA, NOLE, MUZZA fans too.

IGNORANCE is NOT EXCLUSIVE to just one set of fans or a particular player’s fan club.

Best thing is to IGNORE the obvious haters and mix with the rest.

There are some genuinely awesome fed fans on this site- MANY of whom who have great insight about the game, and can call a spade a spade- so you won’t hear any excuses from them.

March 15th, 2013 at 11:57 am

I think Andrew has made a very valid point.

Why is nadal playing djokovic and federer 50% of the time on a surface that holds only 25% of their common tournaments in a year.

Logic dictates that is because rafa is more of a one-surface specialist than Federer or Djokovic.

Again, there is nothing wrong with it, Rafa is good on clay. Federer/Djokovic are better than Rafa on grass, hardcourts and indoor hardcourts.

20years from now, no one will ask how many times Djokovic or federer beat Rafa, they will see how many titles/slams and that shows a very lopsided record for nadal.

I am rafa’s fan, but unlike others I can see how his h2h against federer/djokovic do not convey he is better than them.

Like andrew said on another thread

at AO, USO and WTF, djokovic is a better player than rafa. Like it or not, they are bigger tournaments than barcelona, vina del mar and other clay tournaments.

Roger is also the king of THE most important tennis tournament in the world – Wimbledon.

I would rather rafa have those 7 wimbledons rather than that inconsequential h2h. That is obvious for anyone who knows tennis and is not a dumb@$$.

March 15th, 2013 at 12:01 pm

@ brando,

u were A BIT biased when u said that rafa was only 2 games away from winning AO12 against novak, but completely avoided the fact that fed was only 1 game away from winning WIMBY08.

Not a big deal though. It’s past already

March 15th, 2013 at 12:02 pm

Brando, aren’t you the duffer who doesn’t even know what prime time is?

Maybe you should leave stats to the more knowledgeable.

March 15th, 2013 at 12:03 pm

@Sirius:

My ONLY reason for pointing out such a FACT is to show that rafa is COMPETITIVE v those guys.

Such a FACT suggests as such.

There is NO NEED to prove Fed is competitive v rafa on grass when i have already STATED he leads Rafa on this surface.

LMAO- no need to point out the obvious when it it’s already been stated and understood!

I hope!

March 15th, 2013 at 12:05 pm

All that blabber and verbal diarrhea and you still have not answered the primary questions.

Out of 16 common tournaments that top players play, only 25% are on clay.

Why then do djokovic/federer end up playing 50% of their matches on clay? [the surface on which their one-dimensional rival has a lopsided record - 75% titles on a surface which has only 25% of the tour tournaments]

Anyone who is sensible and not got his head stuck up rafa’s rear end will know that the answer is because federer/djokovic have not lost to jokers like dodig, istomin or rosol or garcia lopez on clay, while rafa ends losing to such clowns on hardcourts.

March 15th, 2013 at 12:09 pm

@Indian Whinger:

‘Maybe you should leave stats to the more knowledgeable.’

So that completely rules you out then!

Glad we, or rather you, have cleared that one up for us.

A TRUE rafa fan as any i have ever came across on this site.

March 15th, 2013 at 12:10 pm

Indian Ninja:

Yes! it was Brando the dolt:)

March 15th, 2013 at 12:11 pm

@ brando,

i get it now

March 15th, 2013 at 12:12 pm

Indian Ninja:

Get this, true rafa fan means you have to have your head stuck up rafa’s rear and blindly keep chanting that rafa is a more complete player than federer/djokovic.

March 15th, 2013 at 12:14 pm

@Sirius:

No worries.

Shame that some ignoramus seem to fail to comprehend the seemingly obvious.

Oh well, that’s the ignorant for you!

March 15th, 2013 at 12:15 pm

@Brando, don’t waste your breath, Indian Ninja and Andrew Tennis are one and the same poster.

Remember: Don’t mud wrestle with a pig, you will both get dirty, and the pig will love it.

March 15th, 2013 at 12:18 pm

@Nadalista:

‘Remember: Don’t mud wrestle with a pig, you will both get dirty, and the pig will love it.’

LMFAO- SPOT ON!

Your right- i’ll let those fools speak out loudly….to themselves!

My friend scroll down say’s hi to their bile!

March 15th, 2013 at 12:21 pm

One cool stat for Nole’s fans – he has now tied Edberg for 10th all time in weeks at number with 72 weeks. The the next milestone is Hewitt who is 9th and has 80 weeks. It would be nice if Nole could get there, anyhow. Above that there are Agassi 8th 101 weeks, Rafa 7th 102 weeks, and Borg 6th 109 weeks.

March 15th, 2013 at 12:43 pm

@brando,

that was a bit harsh

March 15th, 2013 at 12:54 pm

@jane,

unless something really bad happens to nole’s game or to nole himself, u might just see him at that spot for this whole year

March 15th, 2013 at 12:57 pm

Interesting. For all the talk of how Rafa owns Fed (which I won’t dispute), Fed has the 2nd best record against Rafa.

I hadn’t realized that Nadal had played more matches against Djokovic than Federer.

March 15th, 2013 at 12:59 pm

Indian Ninja. With Rafa fans like you who needs enemies. You are as much a Rafa fan as I am a fed fan!! Nuf said!!

March 15th, 2013 at 1:07 pm

Indian Ninja i wouldnt say Novaks a better grass court player than Rafa,when Rafa has been in 5 Wimbledon finals and won two,where as Novaks been in one final and won one final,hes a better HC player granted when you count the overall titles fair enough,but the only GS where Novak has the better of Rafa is the AO,although at the USO they are 1 GS a piece,although Novak has been in more finals,no harm or foul just saying.

March 15th, 2013 at 1:12 pm

My friendly favor to all the Fedt@rds:

Gelusil antacid and antigas tablets relieve heartburn, sour stomach and acid indigestion.
http://www.gelusil.com/

March 15th, 2013 at 1:16 pm

This is specially for my favorite fedt@rd geezer (a. alex/andrew/skeezer)

March 15th, 2013 at 1:22 pm

These stats, and Brando’s are incredible.
Rafa’s dominance against his peers is undoubted. Really unparalleled in history against players of this quality. He’s an incredible big match player. So whats his problem? Why does he have fewer slams than a player he dominates 1 on 1? Its not like other top players dominate Rafa in turn, no one does.
Rafa has a problem against the field that I think Roger doesn’t have. If we can say Rafa is a great big match player, maybe the corollary is that he is not a great small match player.
Seriously, with his big match results, why does he have so much trouble winning hard court tournaments?

March 15th, 2013 at 1:26 pm

Fleischer. LMAO!!

March 15th, 2013 at 1:28 pm

The stats show that Rafa is the real #1. The 52 week ranking period really doesn’t actually show the ladder of overall achievement it’s a transient ladder. The overall ranking should be over a period of more than one year.

How can Rafa be #5 best player in the world with those numbers?

March 15th, 2013 at 1:34 pm

@Alison: Right as usually my darling (I’m in a good mood-I’v been taken 3 star Michelin restaurant tonight by client-hmmmmm ).
Rafa 2 Wimbys, Novak one.Very simple-Rafa better.
And as I think that Novak is great clay player ( but there is Rafa always on the other end ) also Rafa is very good Hard court player but had Fed and Novak on other side.
Anyway, I’m sure you know all this-by the way, congrat on Rafas win.
By the way, you are frequently mentioned as a best rafa supportet.What a honour to know you!( what is a shortened for light hearted sarcasm?LHS? )
I think and Rafa and Novak are training how to outwit each other.rafas prefers to take time off and do it of court (I think his injury was real but not 7 months of healing, couple of months he trained ) and Novak does on the court ( in first three rounds of tournament )-very often when he wins one set (and he thinks is confident to win whole match )and then he experiments and tries different shots in second set ( and thats way often he loses second set ).Off course, I could be completely wrong but I somehow think is like that.What you think?

March 15th, 2013 at 1:37 pm

I didnt see the match,as real life got in the way unfortunatly with work,so i recorded it to watch it at some point,i didnt expect Rafa to beat Roger so i wouldnt have been dissapointed,so i was pleasantly surprised when i saw the result,its clear to see Roger was not at his best when he played Stan so kudos to him for been so loyal to his fans for carrying on playing,as for Rafa hes exceeded my expectations already by making it this far on his 1st HC tourney back,one thing that always gets annoying is every time these two greats meet threads turn into warzones,or if your objective your not considered a true fan of your favorite,why do things have to be so black and white all the time? Rogers the greatest ever,Rafas one of the greatest ever,cant we just admire and appreciate them both they wont be around forever?its only a game when alls said and done.

March 15th, 2013 at 1:39 pm

Tennis Vagabond Says:

“Rafa has a problem against the field that I hink Roger doesn’t have. ”

Overall Winning percentage against the FIELD:

1.Rafael Nadal 82.94% 598–123

2.Bjorn Borg 82.72% 608–127

3.Jimmy Connors 81.78% 1243–277

4.Ivan Lendl 81.76% 1071–239

5.John McEnroe 81.55% 875–198

6.Roger Federer 81.52% 891–202

7.Novak Djokovic 79.77% 485–123

March 15th, 2013 at 1:39 pm

Nole is tooooo crafty!

March 15th, 2013 at 1:40 pm

@ rafaeli; Because he did not play for 7 months?Ugh
Over period of 2 years maybe?OK, then what about this:
Novak won how many slams in the last 2 years? Five.
Rafa?One.
Come to think of it, Davydenko has beter H2H with Rafa so he should be No1…(Great Davy-you must be proud)
Think about this and came back to me.

March 15th, 2013 at 1:41 pm

Well written Andrew Tennis..agree with you.

March 15th, 2013 at 1:42 pm

Another staggering stat:

Rafa has the least number of losses before the QFs in grandslams among the big 4 players.

March 15th, 2013 at 1:42 pm

tennis vagabond, Rafa doesn’t have problems winning h/c tournaments. The % of winnings for the Big 4 on h/c are

Roger – 83%
Nole – 82%
Murray – 78%
Rafa – 77%

They are all pretty close.

March 15th, 2013 at 1:43 pm

H2H record among the big 4:

Federer beats Nole
Nole beats Murray
Murray beats Federer

Rafa beats everyone….period

March 15th, 2013 at 1:44 pm

How can Nadal be number 1 when he’s literally 1-1 in the last 3 slams?

March 15th, 2013 at 1:44 pm

courbon, you obviously didn’t get my drift. I don’t have the patience to explain further.

March 15th, 2013 at 1:45 pm

Nadal has 2 slams in the last 2 years.

March 15th, 2013 at 1:45 pm

I agree with alison. Fedfans, I’m sorry your guy lost to Rafa, but no matter how many stats you post, it doesn’t turn that into a win. Why can’t we just accept that we have 4 dynamic, great players in one generation that we can watch and enjoy?

March 15th, 2013 at 1:47 pm

tennis vagabond “Rafa has a problem against the field that I think Roger doesn’t have.”

It would help if you took the trouble to check the records before jumping to conclusions.

March 15th, 2013 at 1:48 pm

Courbon lol faaantastic post,and glad your in such a good mood mee tooo,to be honest i didnt expect that result in a million years,Rafas already exceeded my expectations even getting this far,anything next is a bonus,anyway Noles the best player in the world and is still the man to beat,and im sure he will only go from strength to strength whatever the surface this year,Rafa been back in the mix will add to the excitement of it all,as for been the best Rafa fan i appreciate that honour but honestly im just been me warts and all,i think i would give that honour to Lulu Iberica(not around at the moment unfortunatly)or Kimberly,or Brando,and Nole has the best fans on this forum IMO pound for pound your good self,Wogboy,Mat4,Harry and the lovely and classy lady Jane.

March 15th, 2013 at 1:52 pm

Overall Winning percentage against the FIELD:

Allround all court players:

Roger Federer 81.52% 891–202

Novak Djokovic 79.77% 485–123

One dimensional clay court player:

Rafael Nadal 82.94% 598–123

March 15th, 2013 at 1:53 pm

Ben Pronin Says:

Nadal has 2 slams in the last 2 years.

March 15th, 2013 at 1:45 pm

Nole has 5 slams

Murray 1
Federer 1

Rest all ZERO

Whats your point Ben ?

March 15th, 2013 at 1:56 pm

Ben Pronin. “Rafa has 2 slams in the last 2 years”. He also DID NOT play 2 slams in the last 2 years!!!

March 15th, 2013 at 2:01 pm

I haven’t heard an answer to the question: why has Rafa won so few hardcourt Slams and Masters compared to Roger and Novak?

March 15th, 2013 at 2:03 pm

Just to say i think it was pure class from Rafa at the net after the match,when Rafa asked Roger about his back,and also acknowledging that Roger was struggling,mind you i suppose the haters will say he has some ulterior motive(sigh).

March 15th, 2013 at 2:06 pm

For Courbon :-))),as i forgot to put a smilie on the end of my post.

March 15th, 2013 at 2:08 pm

TV,

The answer is on similar lines to the answer for the questions below:
Why fed has only 1 clay slam ?
Why Nole has zero clay slam and only 1 grass slam ?

March 15th, 2013 at 2:09 pm

TV. Allow me to answer your question with a question. Why has Roger and Novak won so few clay court Slams and Masters compared to Rafa?

March 15th, 2013 at 2:10 pm

Giles, the answer to that is clear: Rafa is a far superior clay court player than ROger and Novak. No doubt.

But look on hard court and grass: Rafa has amazing records against ROger and Novak, but less success in big tourneys. Why?

March 15th, 2013 at 2:17 pm

TV, the answer is easy, his serve is not a main weapon in this surface, that complicates against the likes of Novak or Andy. And his position against the second serves of his rivals on hardcourt is very defensive. If he had a chance to win a GS or Master 1000 he has to impoved in this areas and more consistent with his BH like yesterday.

March 15th, 2013 at 3:23 pm

Great serve = Free points. Asked Sampras or Federer the importance of serving in this surface. Why Nadal has only 1 UO? (AO is different history) Be agressive like in 2010 is the path has Nadal to follow to be victorious in fast courts. A grinding style only causes injuries. Let see if Nadal and Djokovic will meet in the final and the spaniard adoptes a new strategic against the serbian.

March 15th, 2013 at 3:49 pm

Yes Steve, I agree, but then why has Rafa been so dominant against Fed on hard courts? The H2H is still lopsided for Rafa, but the SLam and Masters count lopsided for Fed. So someone other than Fed has been stopping Rafa at these events for almost 10 years. I’m interested in how Rafa can beat one of the best hardcourt players ever, but he himself doesn’t win that many hardcourt tournaments.

March 15th, 2013 at 4:30 pm

Wow, my son is so good against top 10 players!

Logical dictation is that Your Great Davy is actually the Greatest. Is anyone having a winning record against Rafa other than me?

March 15th, 2013 at 5:50 pm

Jane,

Passing Hewitt for Djoko (80 weeks) is a given. Even if he loses Miami firts round, I don’t think is mathmatically possible for anyone (Murray) to pass him in next 2 motnhs. Fed will not play next 2 toruneys: Miami and MC, and defend Madrid; Nadal even wining IW and Miami adding 1280 can not gain further in clay swimg, only Madrid; Murray is too fa behind he would have to win IW, Miami and MC (don’t know if he is playing) to have a shot and depemd on Nole’s result.

Basically Nole is safe on #1 until RG where he defends 1200 pts. I think Ranking can only shit after RG if Murray makes an assault. Beacuse Fed not playing Miami and MC will not be a treat (only maybe post US Open if he plays decent on clay and defend Wimbledon and Djoko not winning RG). Murray is Nole’s target right now, until Nadal finishes clay swing and we can evaluate his status again and check if he will make a push for it at the end of the year (if he gte back to #1 without playing AO after 7 motnhs off, that would be something, not very likelly).

So things looking good for Djoko and nithing better for him to have another go at Murray and win, further stablishing himself as topd dog.

I think Murray can and wiill be #1 for a short period this year maybe in e end of the year where Djoko defends more points. But it all deoends on clay. This whole season will deoend on clay (will be most exciting clay season in a long, long time). Will Badal sweap everything again, will Djoko complete career Slam, will Murray improve his clay results an win a Masters to spice things up, Can Federer break his title draught on clay?!

And Nadal and Murray’s result will stablish competiton for Nole or not. Otherwise he can finally be #1 for a whole calender year, someing few have made and go up to 5 or 6 all time on that list.

March 15th, 2013 at 6:14 pm

Those numbers “look” great but it is a fact that 4 out of his 21 masters titles and 7 of 11 majors are on clay. That surely says something i.e. Rafa is a great champ, the clay GOAT and very good outside clay. With the stats posted above, one would expect not only more masters and major titles but also expect not so skewed numbers towards one surface.

March 15th, 2013 at 6:31 pm

Novak does not look like he is letting go of the top rank this year. If he is fit the whole year, there is no way he is losing that top rank. I do not think Andy can get it this year. Only Rafa has an outside chance if he wins the channel slam.

March 15th, 2013 at 6:39 pm

” 4 out of his 21 masters titles and 7 of 11 majors are on clay.” I think something is off here rogerafa – the first number.

March 15th, 2013 at 6:42 pm

Daniel thanks for the updated scenarios; i have never been good at calculating potential ranking switches but I know you are good at it. I would love to see Nole reach 100 weeks for sure. That would put him in some nice company historically. Once you hit top five longest at number 1 it makes a big jump. I think even J-Mac was 170 weeks so that’s a more difficult week count to reach. Fed and Sampras are out of the range. But he could get up there with Borg, Rafa and Agassi if he reaches 100 weeks.

BTW, you made some hilarious typos in your post that I HAVE to point out. heee heee ;)

(1) ” I think Ranking can only shit after RG” ha ha, exactly.
(2) “Beacuse Fed not playing Miami and MC will not be a treat ” – especially not a “treat” for Fed fans. ;)
(3) “Will Badal sweap everything again” – Badal? Or Madal? :D

March 15th, 2013 at 6:47 pm

@ jane

Yes, maybe it is 5 out of 21. The last hc masters he won was IW 2009. He is looking good here though. If Novak and Andy “kill” each other in the semi, Rafa’s chances would improve considerably.

March 15th, 2013 at 7:01 pm

@Alison:I just got back from dinner and…Wooh!Novak already finished match.I think he stop ‘practising’ (it’s quaterfinals ) and just playing 100% from now.
I would love to see Novak -Nadals final but there is a small problem…Andy Murray.He can get Novak, so we will see.
I’m even in a better mood after dinner I had (pan fried pigeon-delicious ).
I said before but I’ll say again-I’m glad that Rafa is back regarding of consequences on Novaks carrier path.Speak to you soon

March 15th, 2013 at 7:07 pm

rogerafa, I think you worded it as though 4 of his 21 masters are on CLAY, but I think you meant HC? Anyhow, I agree with you about his form and chances here. He looks very strong.

March 15th, 2013 at 7:09 pm

Yep, it should be 16 or 17 out of 21 masters. Too lazy to check. Thanks for the correction.

March 15th, 2013 at 7:18 pm

My bad for tyoos, I already tend to type fast and not check with bad eyes it’s getting worst:)

March 15th, 2013 at 7:23 pm

Oops, sorry: I don’t mean to sound like a “correctionist” guys – I was just catching up on reaching some of the posts after an appointment that involved the signing of a lot of forms, so I had to have my “hawk eyes” on I guess.

March 15th, 2013 at 7:30 pm

@Rafaeili: Fair enough

March 15th, 2013 at 8:31 pm

So now you guys are accusing Indian ninja because he/she has not shoved his head up rafa’s rear like you guys.

By your logic – brando, giles, nadalista, rafaeli and other rafa trolls must be the same?

The question still remains – why has nadal played roger/novak 50% on a surface where they have only 25% common tournaments [3 Masters and FO].

Answer : Rafa is more of a 1 surface specialist than the other 2.

Even in his worst years like 2008, Federer makes clay court tournament finals – monte carlo, hamburg and FO.

But in his worst years, rafa sits home sobbing like in 2012 or in 2009.

In his worst form, rafa gets banged by guys like dodig, istomin and federer gets to play rafa only when rafa is really on top of the game [except yesterday's match, where both were not at best].

If Rafa was not a clay court specialist, why does he have 0 titles outside clay in 3years? Federer is in a much bigger decline and has still won titles on grass, hardcourt, clay – in these 3 years. Same for djokovic.

This is the truth : Any statistic of Rafa’s you put up has a very lop-sided clay results. Ofcourse, rafa is not a clown like muster on hardcourts/grass, but surely his results are more lopsided on an inferior surface.

Clay is an inferior surface compared to Grass. 7 wimbledons are much more valuable than 7 FO. You can crow any amount on the H2H, but the fact is Federer has nadal beat real bad on the 2 statistics that matter most. GS wins and no.1 ranking weeks.

Nadal has spent more weeks being no.2 to Roger and then novak than at no.1. I cannot think of another supposed GOAT who spent majority of his career ranked no.2 in the world.

March 15th, 2013 at 10:48 pm

Not surprised at my record. The 28% of the time I lost is mostly due to injuries. Those losses need to have an asterisk next to them.

March 16th, 2013 at 12:16 am

Humble Rafa : dont forget the other reason you clowns use – dada stopped boinikin my mama! LOL!(to explain away madrid 2009-miami 2010 results)

March 16th, 2013 at 1:12 am

“Why Nole has zero clay slam and only 1 grass slam ?”

Yada friggin yada…

Dude, why did Rafa lose 7 finals in a row to Nole? Does that make him great or a laughing stock of the tour? How many different ways is everyone posting stuff to make it turn out there way? Only easy to do.

All this kinda stat sh!t is meaningless. Toss it, twist it, tango it, blend it, manufacture it, bone it, swish it, turn it.

Ask or read the players past and present on tour. What is the DEFACTO stat in all time greatness? Slams. Tennis history has stamped. Yes, it matters, yes it still is the benchmark of “the best”.

17. The most complete resume on all surfaces combined.

Simply, the best.

March 16th, 2013 at 1:19 am

Jane @12.43

I think Novak is in for a very long haul as No.1 player in the World. In my opinion, he might surpass Nadal’s no of weeks as No.1 with consummate ease. There is no player right at the moment to upset his applecart with a fading Roger, physically challenged Nadal and inconsistent Andy.

March 16th, 2013 at 1:42 am

Michael, perhaps, but Fed had it for a while last year, Andy is becoming more consistent all the time, and I am not sure how physically challenged Rafa is? But it would be great if Nole could, over the next third of his career, get that 100 weeks mark and maybe beyond.

You never know – I am already thrilled with how much he has achieved as a player. :)

March 16th, 2013 at 2:27 am

Jane, Completely agree with you. I am in awe of Novak as a player. I have never such a fighter like him to the last drop of his blood. He is more mentally stronger than even Nadal. Roger himself pointed out that in one of his interviews. After a long stint at No.3 and playing second fiddle to the Fedal era, Novak finally steered his own destiny to become the No.1 player in the world and it is remarkable that he has been able to maintain that position for the past two years 2011 and 2012. I would say 2012 was the real challenge for Novak to maintain his No.1 status because in 2011 he was in such murderous form that he won everything in sight. Now 2013 would be a little bit easy for him to maintain his status. I am sure he is destined for more glory and would win atleast 12 majors in my opinion.

March 16th, 2013 at 2:37 am

Andrew Tennis GEEZER. The H2H is now 19-10, beat that in mind!! #BornInTheGutter

March 16th, 2013 at 5:55 am

^ bear not beat

March 16th, 2013 at 9:13 am

“developed world” … I never thought I could read that here regarding any surface or any country holding a tournament… so sad

March 16th, 2013 at 9:52 am

“Dude, why did Rafa lose 7 finals in a row to Nole? Does that make him great or a laughing stock of the tour?”

Kinda funny how @skeezer has become the standard bearer for Novak’s 2011 beat-downs on Rafa, not Nole fans. But then again, he could also be a Nole fan, no?

#enemymine

March 16th, 2013 at 10:29 am

^uh?

#nosense

March 16th, 2013 at 10:31 am

^^

#Googleisyourfriend

March 16th, 2013 at 10:37 am

I am a fan of Nole! Is that a problem?

March 16th, 2013 at 11:42 am

Mais non, monsieur!

Explains your standard bearer role.

#Humble

March 16th, 2013 at 11:53 am

….not a judgement, just an observation.

#Thanks

March 16th, 2013 at 12:07 pm

And here’s me thinking skeezer the geezer was a fan of the ole man!! #TwoFaced

March 16th, 2013 at 12:21 pm

And the geezer had the temerity to say Rafa was scared to play IW cos he didn’t want a beat down similar to last year from his ole man. The beat down happened, but this time in reverse order! H2H now standing at 19-10!! I like those figures. Hahaha

March 16th, 2013 at 12:29 pm

It seems to me that the fed fans are in complete disarray ever since Rafa returned to the tour. They are skating from one camp to the other not knowing who to support. Geez one fed fan even says “I am a fan of Nole….” #TwoFaced

March 16th, 2013 at 12:40 pm

Fed will be in hibernation for the next two months and these people who supposedly are his fans will be at a loose end aiming to annoy the Rafa fans for want of something better to do. Bring it on, we are waiting. Fed returns to defend his blue clay tourney. Oops sorry, no more blue clay, it is proper red clay this year!!

March 16th, 2013 at 12:45 pm

Not 2 faced, just not one dimensional. Love the game, not infatuated with a person.

March 16th, 2013 at 12:55 pm

They are fascinating statistics, but they obviously don’t tell the whole story, because if this were the whole story, he should have been #1 for much more than 100 weeks, and had way more than 11 majors.

Don’t get me wrong, 11 majors is nothing to shake a stick at and he’s one of the all time greats – but 7 of them are at one tournament and with this supposed dominance, he should have a much better record at all the majors, but he doesn’t.

I think the genesis of this article, and reason why there are so many comments on this, is the modern obsession we have with the H2H record. The reason we have this obsession is that there are more Federer fans out there than any other player, and the one historical thorn in their side is his H2H with Nadal.

But H2H records are merely a means to an end of winning tournaments – namely majors. The idea is that if you have a better H2H against all of your contemporaries, you should be more likely to win tournaments – all of them. In and of itself, it is a meaningless statistic if it doesn’t translate into more majors.

If he ends up with more majors than anyone, then we will all point to this statistic as meaningful, but if he doesn’t, it will be the same case against everyone else, as it is against Federer…a statistical anomaly.

March 16th, 2013 at 12:59 pm

MMT, nicely put the fact

March 16th, 2013 at 1:10 pm

Stats are stats!!

March 16th, 2013 at 1:12 pm

Bile,

Try this stat.

17

March 16th, 2013 at 1:17 pm

“stats are stats”, only when they’re the stats of someone’s fav. Double standards

March 16th, 2013 at 1:17 pm

@skeezer,

that stat seems to be invalid, only 1 of 17 was in clay. Thus its meaningless :|

March 16th, 2013 at 1:20 pm

@MMT says;

“11 majors is nothing to shake a stick at and he’s one of the all time greats – but 7 of them are at one tournament and with this supposed dominance, he should have a much better record at all the majors, but he doesn’t.”

So if this is a damning indictment of Rafa’s achievements i.e. the fact that 7 of his Slams are at one tournament and that he should have a better record at ALL the majors, the same damning indictment applies even MORE to Djokovic, no? After all, of his 6 Slams, 4 are at one tournament, 5 on one surface and has none on one of the Tour surfaces, an even worse predicament than Rafa’s!

So thank you for enlightening us, Rafa and Novak are nothing in the game.

March 16th, 2013 at 1:26 pm

skeezer/geezer. Try this stat 19-10!!

March 16th, 2013 at 1:31 pm

After seeing Federer cry in Aus Open(Hard court)2009, i wonder how people like Andrew come up with such comments against nadal.

March 16th, 2013 at 1:33 pm

Has anyone bothered to read the stats highlighted in this article by Tom Gainey?

March 16th, 2013 at 1:40 pm

Djokovic has been a top 3 player for the last 6+ years and universally accepted by the fedt@rds as an allrounded all court player and a true successor for Federer.

But he has 1 non HC slam and just 2 outside of AO.

Why is it so ??

March 16th, 2013 at 1:52 pm

@butt-flosser( Flieshter )

“universally accepted by the fedt@rds”

And there ya go again makin up sh!t. Wanna post the fact to back that up? Desperate eh? This is the one that matters most. Rinse and repeat.

17.

——-

@Bile

Ask Rafa which “stat” is most
Important. Ask Laver, Sampras. I like to hear it from the source. Meanwhile, if u and butt-flosser want to continue with re doing moniker names here guess I’ll join in until it stops.

Look I know you guys have been playing with yourselves the last 7 mos and need to shout out Rafa love, but there is no need to piss on Fed while your doing it.

March 16th, 2013 at 2:09 pm

I am sure he is destined for more glory and would win atleast 12 majors in my opinion.

If Federer could obtain “only” 6 majors after 25 years, how shit will make it a better Djokovic with his style of game more physical than of the Swiss.

March 16th, 2013 at 2:26 pm

Skeezer the Geezer:
Try some gelusil….ROTFL

March 16th, 2013 at 2:27 pm

Geezer,

The number 17 is no big deal. Rafa can easily win atleast 4 more FOs and if somehow he can find a way just 2 more non clay slams in the next 4 years he would get to that number.

But obviously once Rafa reaches that number you fedt@rds will bring up a different number.

Historically the records amassed by Rafa are brushed aside as trivial and the records of fed are hyped up like anything by the fedt@rds.

You guys can simply not digest the fact that after such a loong break Rafa comes back and sets the pace on his worst surface.

Try gelusil…your digestive system will function better.

March 16th, 2013 at 2:34 pm

I know that question isn’t for me, Fleischer.

The debate between Fedal fans aside, and speaking just as Nole’s fan, I do think it’s pretty clear my fave is an all-court guy.

He was the youngest player *ever to reach the semis or better at all of the different grand slams, clay, grass, and fast & slow hard.

Definitely, to anyone, it’s clear to see that he’s best on hard courts. They really suit his game. He should – imo – have more than one USO given his record there; he’s been in four finals and hasn’t lost before the semis since 2007. I hope he gets another title there someday.

Anyhow, he has been in a FO final now, and he’s beaten the best player ever on clay in Rafa. His first 2 titles as a pro in 2006 were actually on clay and hard. So he’s no slouch on clay.

He has a few clay masters and 7 clay titles total. And he’s been in 5 finals of clay masters losing only to Rafa every time. He’s also lost to Rafa 4 times at RG (06, 07, 08, 12). So, like Fed, if Rafa weren’t there, it’s not outrageous to think Nole would have won a Roland Garros by now, and probably a couple more clay masters titles. Rafa is just too tough on clay, as you know.

Nole’s worst surface in terms of success is clearly grass, but he’s won the grass holy grail, in Wimbledon, and he’s been in a couple of grass finals at Halle and Queens, even winning a doubles title at Queens. Given that he’s stopped playing the warmup grass events the last couple years, he’s now cut his chances for grass titles, especially due to the paltry options of grass tournaments on the tour. :/ So I don’t know what’ll happen in terms of Nole and grass success going forward.

Nole at Wimbledon is kind of like Rafa at the USO: he reached one final and he has won it. On the flip side, Rafa at Wimbledon has been in 5 finals and won 2; Nole at USO has been in 4 finals and won 1. So similar trajectories at those 2 venues. Plus both were stopped by Fed at those places a number of times. That’s why Nole’s wins over Fed in 2011 and 2012 at the US Open are so spectacular, because he’d lost to him the 3 years prior, much how Rafa’s 2008 win over Fed at Wimbledon was so awesome, because he’d lost to Fed the 2 years prior. So they were both able to overcome their greatest foe at those slams.

Why does Nole have only 1 slam outside the slow and fast hard courts? I don’t know. There are some possible reasons: a few inconsistent years, mucking around with coaching experiments, his serve and his racquets; the undiagnosed Celiac disease, and so forth. Plus he’s only been in 1 final at the FO losing to Rafa, the king of RG, and 1 final at Wimbledon, which he won. He has 3 losses at the USO – all to the other top 3: Andy, Rafa and Fed.
Rafa has 2 losses to Fed and 1 to Nole at Wimbledon, 1 loss to Nole at AO and 1 loss to Nole at USO.

Clearly these two guys are making the finals. It’s just that there’s some tough competition – not only in each other, but in Fed, Andy, and others.

March 16th, 2013 at 2:35 pm

@ ‘Humble” Rafa

“Not surprised at my record. The 28% of the time I lost is mostly due to injuries. Those losses need to have an asterisk next to them.”

MOSTLY due to injuries?? ALWAYS due to serious, life-threatening injuries. Actually the 72% wins should have a special asterisk to them. They are positively miraculous since they came despite your “humble” highness being beset with humble injuries.

March 16th, 2013 at 2:38 pm

Jane,

I wholeheartedly agree to your post.

I know you are a fair poster.

So I request you to apply the same yardstick and tell me whether Rafa is a better all court player or not.

Compare Nole minus AO and Rafa minus FO and tell me who has better credentials.

March 16th, 2013 at 2:43 pm

“Is anyone having a winning record against Rafa other than me?”

I think Hrbaty has a winning record against the ‘GOAT’ and the ‘GOAT owner’. He is the ultimate “GOAT”. The GOATEST! :-)

March 16th, 2013 at 2:44 pm

Agree with @Jane 2:35pm and @Fleischer 2:43pm. Respectfully request that Olympic medal achievements be included in these computations.

Thank you.

March 16th, 2013 at 2:52 pm

“Clay is an inferior surface compared to Grass.”

That is unfair in the sense that grass was a pretty specialist surface for a long time before being modified by making it slower with more predictable bounce. Wimbledon may be more prestigious than RG but they all count as majors. I think hard is the most competitive and fair surface. Rafa has a career slam and that is stupendous even in this age of lack of extremes. He is a great, great player but not as great as the fanatics or those stats would have us believe.

March 16th, 2013 at 2:53 pm

@butt-flosser

Try gelusil? You mean the stuff you been takin the last 7 mos?
No thanks.

17.

March 16th, 2013 at 2:54 pm

Geezer,

Dont worry…most probably Rafa may lose without winning this title. Federer can always go to estoril or some other 25o tourney and win it.

And you can really enjoy that and have fun, since you believe that a 250 win is greater than making a GS final…let alone making a MS final.

March 16th, 2013 at 2:58 pm

Geezer the butt lover,

Where are Andrew and Alex ?

You are much more funny when you post as Andrew or Alex….but your love towards Rafa’s butt remains the same…ROTFL.

March 16th, 2013 at 3:00 pm

Fleischer, it’s obvious that so far Rafa is more successful than Nole. It doesn’t really require computations. :)

It’s also interesting that Fed, Nole, Rafa and Andy all have Olympic medals too, rogerafa (golds, silvers and bronzes amongst them). Delpo jumps in as a 5th guy, with a slam and an Olympic medal too.

But the top four are truly fantastic. Andy’s had less wins at slams so far, but he’s been knocking at the door for a long time, since 2008, and the vast majority of his losses in slams have been to the other top three, which applies, really, to all of them.

Their consistency across surfaces and over a long stretch of years has been nothing short of remarkable. Fed set the bar really high; Rafa rose to it; Nole rose to that bar and complied a fabulous 2011 with a history-making streak; Andy broke through last year, winning two Olympic medals, reaching 2 slam finals (and another this year for 3 straight) and winning his first slam.

I mean, the question maybe shouldn’t be who’s stats are better; perhaps it should be why are we complaining and bickering instead of drooling at this bevy of brilliance?! :)

March 16th, 2013 at 3:12 pm

^ oops sorry, it was nadalista who mentioned Olympics not rogerafa. Then there is Davis Cup successes too. (But since that involves others and availability of depth, maybe that should be left out of it.)

March 16th, 2013 at 3:14 pm

^ whose stats, not who’s.

March 16th, 2013 at 3:15 pm

Jane,

As expected a fantastic post from you.

My initial post was directed at the fedt@rds who claim that djokovic is a better all court player compared to rafa.

March 16th, 2013 at 3:17 pm

@jane, good post.

March 16th, 2013 at 3:20 pm

Fleischer. Did you ask Geezer the butt lover whether his tattoo of Rafa’s butt is still in place?

March 16th, 2013 at 3:25 pm

Giles,

LOL….he loves it….Im sure its still intact.

March 16th, 2013 at 3:38 pm

Butt-flosser,

I am not those posters, i don’t hide behind other monikers like u.

“The number 17 is no big deal. Rafa can easily win atleast 4 more FOs…”

The key word is “can”, meaning, he hasn’t.

Fed has.

17.

March 16th, 2013 at 5:45 pm

nadalista: From your name I know this will be lost on you, but do you know what a strawman is? It’s a sham argument set up to be defeated.

You said Nadal and Djokovic are nothing, not me. Even the “quote” you cited shows I gave credit where credit is due, and I wasn’t even talking about Djokovic, so I don’t know how he got in the conversation – probably to create the illusion of objectivity on your part, but I don’t know why you bother…I mean, just look at your name.

The author suggested Nadal has dominated of all players in the top 10 and that this is ominous for the field, but somehow this has not translated into dominance at all the majors, so clearly there is a disconnect and I’m merely trying to explain it.

It’s your hypersensitivity that has turned, “one of the all time greats” into “nothing”, so congratulations for denigrating your own favorite player.

March 17th, 2013 at 1:02 am

@MMT, I’ve always thought of you as among the fairest of posters since I began reading this site and now posting, and the most respectful, not to mention the most knowledgeable and respectful of posters, if I may say so. You always give credit where it’s due.

This thread has so many twists and turns which made it very difficult to comment on anything, because of the many contradictions. One thing is clear though, it’s an official war zone.

March 17th, 2013 at 1:31 am

i am sick an tired of the bull crap analysis. Rafa has proven he is a champion that is admired by every player he has beaten and been beaten by. Every commentator has only praise for him and many of the woman tennis players would marry him. There will always been statistics to push around one is that Rafa has won on every surface for a grand slam, not every player can say that. He pushed himself to do this and been successful. For any of you to bash him makes you an ignorant jackass. There is always an excuse as to why he wins or justification as to why he loses. He is a great champion and deserves the same respect for the other players fans that he gives to your player. He has always said Roger was the greatest player even though he owns him and praise Nole’s accomplishments. He has proven he deserves better than your petty pathetic comments.

March 18th, 2013 at 10:37 pm