Federer, Baby Federer Seek Grass Titles Sunday; Ivanovic In Birmingham Final
by Staff | June 14th, 2014, 8:01 pm
  • 92 Comments

Roger Federer will seek a seventh title at the Halle Gerry Weber Open tomorrow against Colombian Alejandro Falla. In semifinal play, the 32-year-old Federer knocked out the fast-improving Kei Nishikori 6-4, 7-6.

The match offered some late hi-jinx when the Swiss forgot the score, not realizing he had won the match. Despite the memory lapse, the father of four is pleased with his week.

“I’m very happy that things are going so well for me here this week,” said Federer. “I only played a few matches and I’m in the final now. I wasn’t sure whether it’s a good thing to get a walkover in the quarter-finals because I was really lacking matches on grass. Playing against somebody like Nishikori is a big test.

“I’m extremely happy with the way I played today. I think I played really aggressive, I served well when I had to and I was able to keep the pressure on Kei and at the end I think I deserved to win. I played a good tie-break as well to get back into it and now I’m in another final here at the Gerry Weber Open. I love this tournament. I’ve won it six times before. So I’m hoping to make it seven.”

Federer has beaten Falla in all six of their meeting including a two-set comeback at Wimbledon in 2010.

Federer will also play in the doubles final with partner and countryman Marco Chiudinelli as he tries to become the first person this season to win both singles and doubles at the same event.

“Every match is different. Roger knows me well,” the lefty Falla said. “So, it’s going to be a very tough match, a different match. He beat me here 61, 64 or 61, 62 the same way we played in Wimbledon. So, you never know. He’s playing well and it’s going to be very tough.”

In Queen’s, Baby Federer Grigor Dimitrov advance to his first grass final after beating Australian Open champion Stan Wawrinka 6-2, 6-4. In the title match the Bulgarian will face Feliciano Lopez, a straight set winner over Radek Stepanek.

“It’s a good feeling,” said Dimitrov. “I always wanted to be in a final out here, stepping on there on Sunday means a lot to me, especially out here. I don’t know why I have such a strong intuition about this tournament. It has always been one of the biggest events for me, for some reason. There’s nothing better than to be in the final. I’m sure I’m going to go out there and give 100 per cent from myself.”

The ladies are in Birmingham where Ana Ivanovic continued her return to form. The former No. 1 who dropped outside the Top 60 four years ago is back to playing Top 10 tennis. This week the 26-year-old seeks a third title of the year and first on grass of her career against Barbora Zahlavova Strycova tomorrow.

“I mean it would mean a lot for me to have title on grass,” Ivanovic said. “It’s been – not to mention my age – ten years on tour and I have never won a title on grass. That would definitely be something special.”


Also Check Out:
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Li Shows Sharapova Grass Exit in AEGON Classic Final at Birmingham
Live Blog Here During U.S. Davis Cup at Tennis-X
Grass Preview: Nadal, Federer Heat Up Halle This Week
Oudin Beats Jankovic, Wins 1st Career Title Monday at WTA Birmingham

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92 Comments for Federer, Baby Federer Seek Grass Titles Sunday; Ivanovic In Birmingham Final

queen Says:

What is he playing for? A cow?


Gordon Says:

It’s interesting/odd to note that of the only 6 times Fed and Falla (who is 30), 4 of those matches were on grass. The last time they met was in the Olympics in 2012, where Falla took 1 set. Of the other 5 matches, 4 were Grand Slam events – 2 RG and 2 Wimbledon.


Dan Martin Says:

I have my predictions for Halle and Queen’s Club up at http://tennisabides.com – I think Federer could start his 2nd half of 2014 with a bang if he defends this title. 2-3 in finals is a lot better than 1-4


Michael Says:

Falla is a pretty dangerous player who has tremendous variety in his game and one may recall he took Roger to the edge of precipice in 2010 when Roger recovered from a hopeless position. I think Roger needs this Halle title big time ahead of Wimbledon where expectations are much greater this time around. Every one is hoping that he will give that one last final push to reclaim that Wimbledon title and kiss the Crown for the 8th time running. The path is thorny and it is not going to be easy for Roger. He needs a favourable draw plus some major upsets along the way of big players to attain what he aspires to achieve. But, Roger still need not give up hope for he is playing in his favourite surface and if he somehow discovers his sublime form of the late 2000s, then there is no stopping him.


Michael Says:

As regards Lopez Vs Dmitrov, I am picking Lopez to lift the title for he is playing some swashbuckling grass court Tennis which has captured my imagination and captivated my hearts. I wonder where Lopez hid his talents all these years ? But he seems to be one of the great Grass court players looking at the way he is serving with grace, ease and power and also the way he cross court volleys and follow-ups on his serve. He is sure to be a major threat at Wimbledon.


Margot Says:

Gorgeous Grig v Delicio Felicio…..I mean who can a gal possibly pick…..
#Conundrum…;)


madmax Says:

Two pretty boys Margot.

queen Says:
What is he playing for? A cow?

June 14th, 2014 at 8:58 pm

What if he were queen? Would it matter? Being in another final, as Dan Martin said, is success.

Doesn’t success breed success. Ask Rafa.

Really good luck to Federer today.

That momentary memory loss, can’t have too many of those during a match now! Funny, but NOT recommended!

Falla is a strong player and with nothing to lose, will go for broke.

Federer definitely needs to be on his guard.


metan Says:

I am going to root for the handsome Feli and the king of grass papa Fed.


Daniel Says:

Does anyone have a I’ve stream where you don’t need to register? Sportslemon is not working for me.


calmdownplease Says:

`Gorgeous Grig v Delicio Felicio…..I mean who can a gal possibly pick..`

Oh Margot, lol
The fuss over these two (and shreikapova for the women) indicates to me that tennis is not one of the bettter looking participant sports out there.
One only has to look at Stepanek for a second to have an indication of this.
If you can handle it.


calmdownplease Says:

Dimitrov Raonic Nishikori do not have masters between them. Although Kei certainly would have, had he not taken on one of his many many injuries.
At this stage I don’t see any of them as slam contenders until we hit a weak era with the top 4/5 all retired.
They’ll just have to sit tight and improve until then.
But it could be a long wait.
I personally hope for the retun of Del Potro to fill the void, also sadly rather brittle but much more of a champion than any of the above.


Okiegal Says:

@Daniel

You might try Livescore Hunter live streaming. I use that one all time but haven’t tried it today.


squirrel_0209 Says:

Federer is playing so badly now..he was lucky to get the first set

Now I’m worried for his Wimbledon bid :(


Okiegal Says:

@calm down

……..but she’s not looking at Steps……She is gazed in on Fel and Grigor, and who can blame her….hubba bubba!! You go girl……hubby always said you can look but you better not touch. You can guess why he said that!! Lol


squirrel_0209 Says:

His movement is definitely off!


Okiegal Says:

Roger took first set in tiebreak, this is a tight match. Roger can wrap this up in two!! If so …..one more title under his belt!


calmdownplease Says:

@okiegal

Er Yeah, I don’t think you got the gist of my message at all did you?
Anyway nice brisk match, if rather serve orientated.


squirrel_0209 Says:

Yeah, but he should have won it 6-3 for the first set. Though he’s looking good now on the tie-breaker for the ttile! Go Fed!


squirrel_0209 Says:

Congrats Fed! :)


Colin Says:

Who the heck designed Dimitrov’s shirt? In closeups it looks as if he had terminal dandruff!

Oh – the tennis? With all this quick play and big serves, I’d expect someone to say it was boring, as they did in the days of Sampras.

And another thing: Lopez is keeping up a nonstop tirade at his box, but Messrs. Lloyd and Castle are not condemning him for it. If it were Andy they’d be pontificating about his bad behaviour.


Daniel Says:

Congrats Fed on his 14 title on grass, an all time recorded.

His form was not excelent but at least he is winning tiebreaks on grass as he should.

Now onto Wimby and see what draw he gets and the state of other contenders. First week as we saw past few years they can be upset so, who knows…


calmdownplease Says:

`Lloyd and Castle are not condemning him for it. If it were Andy they’d be pontificating about his bad behaviour..`

They can’t speak spanish I assume.
Castle seems a little jealous of Andy too.
But jesus both remind me of;

http://www.why-not.nu/expeditions/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/muppet-show5.jpg


calmdownplease Says:

ooooh very tight, calmdownplease boys its only a 250!


Humble Rafa Says:

We now have a favorite the “Tournament for Cows”. Having successfully beat grass court genious and future Hall of Famer, Falla, the Arrogant One has proved he is so far ahead of his competition, it’s amazing.

#3rdroundexit#


Margot Says:

Bit of a servefest that. Gorgeous Grig needs a bit more practise against lefty servers. Would’ve been more interesting tennis wise, if one of the great defenders had played Lopez, who would’ve choked anyway, I guess.
@clampdownplease
Look at Steps? EEUK! Why? Trying to think….I suppose cricketers are good looking? In Rugby, my other favourite sport, the players are worse….except Leigh Halfpenny, who is a real cutie :)


Margot Says:

@CDP
Next year Queens is a 500.


calmdownplease Says:

I know Margot, perhaps the promise of winning a tourney going places ramped up the pressure eh?
Or maybe its more to do with them not having won too much of anything.
Given he is nearly 10 years the senior I really wanted Feli to win.
Dimitrov makes even Andy’s early promise hype machine seem anaemic by comparison.
And the Sharapova merger seems very..fake, can’t quite put my finger on it, but it does.
Anyway, it rally for bally time.


Giles Says:

And Fed falters with 3 match points losing the doubles!
Oh dear!
#MaybeTooTired
#GettingOld
#NoStamina


Andrea Says:

After crashing out in the second and first round in the past 2 years nadal would be thrilled to at least make it to the third round.


Margot Says:

“Rally for Bally” such a gr8 event. Vika in fine form, showing quite a different, fun side. Such a shame she didn’t deck that commentator worse than Castle! From Eurosport I think, what a bleep!
And Hingis too, showing us glimpses of fabulousness.
Brilliant from them all!


Patrick Says:

I am not amused at the way the Fed-Falla match was ‘produced’.
The moron in control of switching between camera shots must have been on drugs or drunk. At least a dozen serves were ‘missed’ while we, the viewers, watched a replay of the previous point or a shot of someone in the crowd or whatever.
Highly paid TV producers are just not doing their jobs.
Just show the tennis and leave your ‘creative’ talents for something else.


madmax Says:

Giles Says:
And Fed falters with 3 match points losing the doubles!
Oh dear!
#MaybeTooTired
#GettingOld
#NoStamina

June 15th, 2014 at 1:32 pm

giles, you are right. It was disappointing, but at least he got to the finals for this one, and won the singles eh?

I guess you must still be disappointed that rafa was turfed out in the first round by the dreadlock destroyer?

Oh dear!
#MaybeTooTired
#GettingOld
#NoStamina

Halle becomes an ATP500 tournament next year!

Whoo hoo. That should please you?

A shame really the grass season is way too short and there should be more of ‘em during the year. At least ONE grass court 1000 masters tournament!

Well done fed today! Proud of you!
Hang tough! Stay healthy! Vamos Fed!


Okiegal Says:

@Calmdownplease

@Okiegal

“Er, yeah, I don’t think you got the gist of my message at all did you?”

Obviously not, I will try to do better in the future. I’ve been called out before on this very thing. Maybe I have followed Rafa and all of his interviews too long and I have a language barrier with folks on TX! LOL Sorry I didn’t get your “drift”……please forgive. Oh and I read it over and still came up with the same thing…..LOL


Okiegal Says:

Those two finals……every set in both matches were decided by tiebreaks. How exciting….I love to see a good tiebreaker……just makes my day! Didn’t get to see either match, however.

Congrats to Roger fans and to that other guy who won and sympathy to the fans of the losers! Better luck Next time!


madmax Says:

Oki,

Yes,strange matches indeed. All tie breakers! Too tense for my liking, got to say though, really enjoyed the second tiebreaker in the Falla game, because Roger just charged out, meant business, no room for error, three straight points, bosh, bosh, bosh! That’s more like it Roger!


Okiegal Says:

@MM^^^^^

I probably wouldn’t have thought that was so great if Rafa had been playing! Lol Tiebreaks can definitely tie your stomach up in knots…..very tense points!! Yeah, for sure!! I’ve just talked myself out of liking them! LOL


Humble Rafa Says:

Great champions playing in these finals. Unbelievable quality of players.

#inmatesrunningasylum#


Dc Says:

Humble Rafa Says:
Great champions playing in these finals. Unbelievable quality of players.

#inmatesrunningasylum#

June 15th, 2014 at 8:38 pm
——————————-

Yes .. Very high quality of serve n volley tennis.. a style of tennis which is very effective on fast grass .. Champs who can’t play this variety of tennis generally get knocked out in the first round.


WTF Says:

It’s hard to believe that since Cincinatti 2012, Fed has only won 3 titles, 2 of them being Halle (250) and a 500 title. Not even a 1000.


Gorgeous George Says:

Dc, as opposed to those that do play that S&V style of tennis which got them all the way to getting knocked out in the second round.

Rafa had knee problems. Fed had back problems.

These are the real reasons. Nadal’s “style” got him five Wimby finals in five consecutive attempts including two titles.

Really? These champs “generally” get knocked out? Or is it the exception?


tennismonger Says:

Pretty nasty typo w/Sampras’ name @ bottom but otherwise pretty gobsmacking data -

http://www.ibm.com/smarterplanet/us/en/sports/media/pdf/WimbledonServe&VolleyInfographic.pdf


Lulu Says:

People are being ridiculous lately with all the Fed vs Rafa BS! Rafa just won his 9th(!!!!) French Open and Fed is looking good for Wimbledon. Both are obviously great champions with long careers. Unfortunately, time has made them both more susceptible to upsets. I realllly want Rafa to win another Wimby (and dear Lord, please let him make it to the quarterfinals at least!) but if he can’t, I wouldn’t mind seeing Fed lift the trophy for an 8th time.


Purcell Says:

Congrats to Fed and Dimitrov for their victories. Only saw a recording of Halle final so, in reference to Patrick, I can’t comment on the camera work. The most bothersome thing for me, although importantly, it clearly didn’t affect the players, and was probably not an issue for spectators, was the wretched shadow across the court which made TV viewing very difficult. Halle does seem to be the worst affected of the stadiums where a roof or canopies are in evidence.
Saw Ivanovich win in Birmingham. It was a bit of a rout but oh dear, what dreadful overheads. She waved her arms in triumph at the only one she succeeded in putting away. The Rally for Bally was by turns, hilarious and touching. Judy Murray came on to coach Henman and Keothovong, Navratilova raised a large sum by auctioning off her racquet, as did Tim, and James Ward put in a surprise appearance in place of Jamie who was of course, in the dubs final at Queens. Elena…..a true inspiration, on and off the court.


Gordon Says:

Patrick is dead on; the coverage was dreadful.

On top of lingering and missing first serves, at each change over the camera would stay on Fed or Falla sitting down for 10-15 seconds before breaking for 2 minutes of commercials. Because neither of these guys are major ball bouncers, bum pickers, hair strikers, ball choosers etc., invariably we would return to the match and the first point had already been played.

It could have been a little smoother all around.


ertorque Says:

@tennismonger

Thanks for the link. Interesting info indeed


Daniel Says:

Interesting details. Federer’s most successfull tourneys are the ones where he met Nadal the least while in Nadal’s most successfull toruney he faced him several times:

Federer
- Wimby 7 titles, 67-9 faced Nadal 3 times, 2-1
- Halle 7 titles, 46-5 never faced Nadal
- Dubai 6 titles, 42-5 faced Nadal once, 0-1
- WTF 6 titles, 44-11 faced Nadal 5 times, 4-1
- US Open 5 titles, 67-9 never faced Nadal
- Basel 5 titles, 51-9 never faced Nadal
- Cincinati, 32-8 faced Nadal once last year 0-1

Note that 3 of Nadals victory was after 2008

- RG 9 titles Nadal, Fed faced him 5 times losing all
- MC 8 titles Nadal, Fed faced him 3 times losing all
- Barcelona 8 titles Nadal never faced Fed
- Rome 7 tites Nada, Fed faced him 3 times losing all
- Madrid 4 titles Nadal, Fed faced him 2 times 1-1

My point is had they faced in the tournaments Fed was do inating the HxH could be more even, nit that Fed would have a postivie one, this is always a match up issue and Nadal was able to beat him in more different courts but had they played more often on grass or fast hard Fed would defintely had more wins.


Michael Says:

Roger certainly received a shot in the arm with this win at Halle. He badly needs this win to boost his sagging morale ahead of the Premier event. However, it is too early to know where Roger actually stands in terms of his form. But just looking at Halle and his play over there, one gets a feeling that has still miles to go to be realistic of winning Wimbledon. Nevertheless, what should be comforting Roger is the fact that he has started on a winning note compared to his rivals who have struggled.


Nirmal Kumar Says:

Daniel..on the other hand, he could have ended with less titles in those tournaments if Nadal had been successful. We never know.


Michael Says:

As regards Lopez Vs Dmitrov, I did fancy Lopez to lift the title. But unfortunately despite holding a series of set points and match points in his favour, Lopez couldn’t complete the job. He did break early in the third set too but he squandered them all much to the relief of Dmitrov who is lucky to have won the event. It should be a pretty disappointing outing to Lopez who was just within striking distance of the finishing line. Lopez in a way resembles the indomitable John Mcenroe, particularly the way he serves that wide one with vicious top spin and then approaches it with a cross court volley and thereby unsettling the opponent. This is a dying art in today’s modern Tennis where skills, finesse, touch and elegance have given place to brute power. Despite the loss, I think Lopez would pose a formidable threat at Wimbledon, a week from now. What I didn’t like about Dmitrov was he didn’t care to mention Lopez name in his speech at the prize distribution ceremony. Just consoling the loser is sportsmanship spirit and moral code of ethics, but Dmitrov totally forget it all amidst his surprising win.


madmax Says:

Daniel Says:
Interesting details. Federer’s most successfull tourneys are the ones where he met Nadal the least while in Nadal’s most successfull toruney he faced him several times:

Federer
- Wimby 7 titles, 67-9 faced Nadal 3 times, 2-1
- Halle 7 titles, 46-5 never faced Nadal
- Dubai 6 titles, 42-5 faced Nadal once, 0-1
- WTF 6 titles, 44-11 faced Nadal 5 times, 4-1
- US Open 5 titles, 67-9 never faced Nadal
- Basel 5 titles, 51-9 never faced Nadal
- Cincinati, 32-8 faced Nadal once last year 0-1

Note that 3 of Nadals victory was after 2008

- RG 9 titles Nadal, Fed faced him 5 times losing all
- MC 8 titles Nadal, Fed faced him 3 times losing all
- Barcelona 8 titles Nadal never faced Fed
- Rome 7 tites Nada, Fed faced him 3 times losing all
- Madrid 4 titles Nadal, Fed faced him 2 times 1-1

My point is had they faced in the tournaments Fed was do inating the HxH could be more even, nit that Fed would have a postivie one, this is always a match up issue and Nadal was able to beat him in more different courts but had they played more often on grass or fast hard Fed would defintely had more wins.

June 15th, 2014 at 11:53 pm

Daniel, not that interesting. Particularly when Nadal was knocked out! Reason why he didn’t meet fed! D’uh!


Michael Says:

It is a bitter truth which all Roger fans should admit including myself. Roger simply doesn’t have the confidence to face Nadal on any surface except may be indoor hard where he holds the edge. Rafael Nadal has dominated Roger the way he has handled Berdych. Sad, but true. A Great player short of confidence to face another great player of his generation. May be one can argue that if Roger had faced Rafa more on hard courts and grass during his year of Prime, things could have been different and their H2H could not have been so embarrassing as it is today. But, we can feed only with what is on table and what is staring is 23-10 which looks nauseating whatever way you look at it !!


Michael Says:

In outdoor hard court outings, Rafa is leading 8-2 and so the perception that the H2H could not have been so one sided if they met more on hard court and grass court falls flat.


madmax Says:

Michael, when someone is dominant mostly on one court, clay, I would say that Roger, having been there 5 times in 5 finals and won one of them, has been the most successful adversary out of all tennis players bar the ultimate winner, Rafa.

It is no shame in reaching the final and losing it. May have been a while ago, but Rafa faced the same in Roger at Wimbledon, losing twice in the final.

We know the difficulties he faces against Rafa, that has been documented plenty.

In door hard and grass are Roger’s best and he has nothing to be ashamed about.


madmax Says:

Daniel, of course that doesn’t include clay, but your statistics are not balanced.

My point is, you cannot discredit Roger because Rafa was knocked out in the same tournament prior to reaching Roger in the final.

How does that one work?


Michael Says:

Madmax,

I am in no way trying to denigrate the Great Roger who is a phenomenon by himself. What he has achieved transgresses generation. But he has one faultline in his glittering career and that faultline unfortunately is his arch rival. If Rafa had not been another great player, we could explain away with bad match up factor. For instance, Borg has a losing record against Borowiack. However, Rafa has a winning H2H against most players including Roger. May be Davydenko is the only player who holds the edge against Rafa by a whisker. If there is one player who has dominted Rafa on hard courts, it is only Novak and that is manifested by their H2H which stands at 15-7 in Novak’s favour. All the other players, Rafa has dominated including Roger and Andy on all courts. So, we cannot just be like Ostrich digging our head in sand and we have to face harsh facts. Roger has problems in encountering Rafa’s top spin game and that is well recorded. Not just Roger, most players in the circuit face this problem.


skeezer Says:

Fed wins singles and finalist in doubs!
Rafa? Out in first round against who? O, thats right, he was just practicing? Warming up?…LMAO!
#needstopracticeharder
#anotherexcuse


Sirius Says:

The h2h would have been 8-10 if federer was like sampras


Sirius Says:

Michael @ 12:55,

completely agree, that theory falls flat! 8-2 you say, no? 3 of them happened since 2013, when fed was 200% physically,mentally at his peak. 1 was in miami 2011 against much fresher younger 29+ year old roger federer on very low bouncing lightning fast court. And fed actually doesn’t have anything to hurt rafa on grass. The very lopsided wimby08 final indicates that. So, i agree with you, federer in his prime at his physical, mental best would never be able to score a competitive h2h against rafa in this planet on any type of court :)


Okiegal Says:

@Sirius^^^^

I agree with you and Michael…..it really isn’t that hard to digest……Rafa is better than Roger….pure, plain and simple!

#h2hsaysitall


Sirius Says:

Okiegal,

h2h wise davydenko is better than nadal. Digest that!
even in that h2h clay saves him. (5-1 on clay but 0-5 on hard)

Rafa has been the best player ON CLAY for the last 12 years or so. Outside of it, no. Look at their achievements outside of clay :

Roger

- 5 USO, 7 Wimbledon, 4 AO Titles
- 6 cons USO finals, 7 cons wimby finals, Overall 5AO finals (2 back to back in 2006-07) , 9 cons USO semis, 11 cons AO semis,

Rafa

- 2 USO, 2 Wimbledon, 1 AO Titles

-2 cons. USO finals, 3 cons. And then 2 cons. Wimby finals (2006-08 & 2010-11), Overall 3 AO finals

talk about success and consistency. Rafa may match the success though unlikely , but the consitency wise he is nowhere near roger


madmax Says:

Sirius,

Yes. But this is a never ending argument which will not be resolved.

Oki, It really is not as simple as that, but there is no point in arguing this which has been done to death.


Sirius Says:

@madmax,

so it seems.


Michael Says:

Well if there is a glitch in Nadal’s armoury and that is his hard court H2H vs Davydenko. But even that can be explained away juxtaposing it with the Borg vs Borowiack tussle where the later held all the aces. With no intention to discredit Davydenko, he was in the top three only sometime around 2006 and after that his career nosedived only to revive for a brief period in 2009 when he won the Master series title and looked invincible for a while and then his career yet again stumbled and he was never the same player. So, you can never equate a player as inconsistent as Davydenko with top league players like Roger, Rafa, Novak and even Andy. Just because Davydenko bests Nadal in their H2H, can you define equations as below :-

Rafa Roger
Roger Davydenko
Davydenko > Rafa but < Roger

This looks plainly ridiculous. So Roger's deficit against Rafa cannot be compensated by the fact that he has a better H2H against Davydenko.

You can look at Rafa's H2H against Davydenko in isolation. Afterall Davydenko's H2H against Novak and Andy are not inspiring either.


Sirius Says:

@michael,

i don’t care about h2h. It was for okiegal’s post ( see the hashtag #h2hsaysitall). To win any tournament you have to play against the field, not just one particular player

anyway, you were talking something else in your 12:55 pm post


Bob Says:

Michael: you just cherry-pick where h2h counts. It’s never meaningful. If Federer was a poor player on clay, his h2h stats vs. Nadal would be better.


Michael Says:

Sirius,

Well, consistency wise, Roger is better than Rafa atleast in majors whereas the overall success rate tells a different story altogether. That may be attributed to Roger’s advancing age and Rafa being in his prime. So, we need to wait where they stand and that will be known only in a few years during the post prime years of Rafa. You are right that Tennis is not about individual bouts like heavy weight boxing. It is against an competition and an array of a vast field. You need to traverse through it again and again to stamp your consistency and class. So, your contention that H2H need not be the sole criterion to judge a player has some validity. However, has there been in any other era where the rivalry has been so much lop sided as the one between Roger Vs Rafa ?


Michael Says:

Bob,

You got me wrong. I do not cherry pick. I am just stating facts. Although I am too a dedicated and sincere fan of Roger. You would appreciate what I say if you had been in this forum for long when I have all the time defended Roger in the strongest manner possible. It hurts me as a fan to watch the Great Roger just give up matches to Rafa without a fight. It seems he is almost reconciled to defeat when he faces Rafa. That is not the tenacity, grit and fighting qualities you expect from a Champion. No matter howsoever we try to hide or erase, the stain is visible and glaring. Is any commentator giving even a faint chance to Roger when he faces Rafa ? The result of the match is known even before they play. Does that in any way enhance the stature of Roger ? Granted, Rafa is in his prime and Roger past his best. But still for the past two years, Roger has not been able to defeat Rafa even once. He has lost all matches and too badly at that whenever they have played. You say that if Roger had been a better player on Clay, things would have been different. The fact is that Roger is the second best player of Clay but may be now the scales have titled for Novak who has managed to beat Rafa a healthy four times on Clay, two more than Roger in his entire career.


Sirius Says:

Probably NO. But you have to see the facts -

roger vs rafa 10-23

total 33 matches
15 of which are on clay (45%)
3 of which are on grass (9 %)
rest 15 are on hard (45%)

rafa nadal is a clay colossus. Only 3 active players have multiple wins against him on clay. Highest number is 4 (lol) by djokovic. Fed and ferrer (he had 1 win 10 years ago but this year somehow managed another) have 2 each.

So the lopsided-ness is due to clay, 13-2. Overall rivalry is 23-10. Rafa has won 13 more and 11 of which comes from clay

now, why djoko-nadal rivalry is 23-19?

They have played 18 times on clay (42%) . Rafa leads 14-4

3 times on grass (7%) rafa leads 2-1

21 times on hard (50%) djoko leads 14-7

rafa leads on this rivalry too with his clay wins. Nothing against rafa, nor against clay, i love the clay slam. But he is too good on the surface and also good on the others. Just not as good as on clay. While roger and novak are great on hard courts and grass (may be novak not that great, but still good), they are not monsters on the surfaces like rafa is on clay. Hope i made myself clear

p.s. Rafas 4 wins on hard court against roger came since 2013

p.p.s. I’m getting tired of the arguments. Anyone could see that lopsided h2h can be decieving if they tried to see it from a neutral perspective


Purcell Says:

Okiegal: because of the exclamation mark at 4:02, I’m inclined to think you’re having a joke. My dad’s better than your dad and all that.


Okiegal Says:

Rafa is my favorite…..no secret there. I believe I can look at the Roger/Rafa topic in a neutral manner. Roger is probably the better player against every player on the planet with the exception of Rafa….the lefthander’s game is troubling for Roger. I can see Roger’s greatness and Novak’s, for that matter!

I also think this topic has been poured over way too many times, but was bored and thought I would jump in. I don’t get a lot of responses on TX……but the mention of h2h brings the boys to the yard!! LOL

Congratulations to Roger fans on his latest title……don’t really care if it’s 250….500….or 1000, it’s a title that Rafa wasn’t able to get past the first round…..is that neutral enough for you??

#rafaudaman


Bob Says:

Michael: you’ve got me wrong, I’ve written that if Federer were a poor player on clay, the h2h against Nadal wouldn’t look that bad. That’s because they would never have met on clay, Federer loosing in early rounds and their good rankings preventing early confrontations. I prefer that Federer has had an unmatched consistency to reach the final rounds of all gc during many years, winning more than anybody else, even if that means that sometimes he’s met Nadal and lost.


Okiegal Says:

@Purcell

Yeah, however you want to interpret my post, is good by me. I love a good joke. Love to disperse a little humor whenever I can. A lot of folks on TX way too serious…..in dire need of anger management therapy…..LOL. Seriously, there are a lot of mad, bitter people on here.

#lightenup
#standsbyherman


Gorgeous George Says:

Yes a matchup issue indeed against Nadal, Murray and even Djokovic over the last few years since he got his game together. Djokovic is 10-5 vs Fed, doubling him the way Rafa always has. Murray has also always had a positive h2h.


Purcell Says:

I don’t think most people on here are either mad or bitter, two distinct issues of course, but I acknowledge there are many contributors, including myself, who are irritated by the barbs and insults thrown at fans and players by admirers of ‘the special boy.’ To respond in kind is to lower standards even though it’s so, so tempting. I expect the chief offenders will be sharpening their somewhat limp sabres as they prepare to battle with real fans.


Giles Says:

I don’t really know why some posters need to patronise the fed fans. They are a cult, they look after their own. Plain and simple!


Gorgeous George Says:

May have been the case in the past but over the last few years it’s been more a case of Roger going out or not being there to meet Rafa on hard or grass courts.

Last year Montreal (didn’t even play), IW, USO ) lost to Robredo. Rafa schooled him in WTF indoors even.

2011: IW Rafa was in Final but Fed was out, Wimbledon, USO

2010: Doha Rafa in final, Fed out, IW fed out 2nd rnd, Wimbledon fed out early, USO final where was Fed,

So this argument perpetuated that Nadal always goes out before Fed on grass/hc is just tired and obsolete.

Fed had the age advantage but it is now gone the other way.

That’s all.


Okiegal Says:

@Giles

You left out “pure”………just saying…

@Purcell

Roger is “the special boy” for his fans.
Rafa is “the special boy” for his fans. People who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones. Both fan bases do this……beating their heads against a brick wall……neither fan base is budging. Kind of like my dad’s better than your dad, so to speak.


Giles Says:

@Okiegal. “Pure”? Sorry, don’t understand.


Okiegal Says:

@Giles

In Okla we say “pure, plain and simple”……read my post on the 16th at 4:02. I didn’t mean anything derogatory…….”pure” just puts a little more emphasis on a point you’re trying to make. It’s an Okie thing……wasn’t meaning to be rude!!


Giles Says:

@Okiegal. Ah I see. Just didn’t know where the “pure” fits in.
I’m with you now. Maybe I’m a bit slow today.
It’s all good. :)


Okiegal Says:

Giles, there could be some things people might say about you, but being slow isn’t one! LOL You’re rather quick on the trigger with your comebacks on this forum…..nah, not slow at all. You should change your moniker to “Speedy Gonzalez”……that one could work for Skeezer too…..he possesses a hair trigger!! Lol


Giles Says:

@Okiegal. Lol.


Daniel Says:

Also, you say lopsided HxH bu Fed is the only other player who has 10 or more wins against Nadal, the other one is Djokovic.

As much as part of the result is on Fed’s head you have at least 2 arguments to justify, when you look beyond the numbers:

1 – Fed’s too good on clay.
Had he achieve half those finals he would have half the loses, even removing one of his 2 wins away. you could remove 7 loses on clay and 1 win and the HxH would be 16-9

2 – Nadal was not too good on other surfaces (specially the ones I mentioned in my post before 2008). Note that by the end of 2007 theyr rivalry was 8-6 Nadal. That year (2008) changed everything, the year Fed declined and Nadal rise. Pretty simple. Nadala got the bulk of his wins in his primes when Fed declined and continued to do so. Nadal is on a 5 match winning streak (the most he got in their rivalry), with Fed after 30.

But also, Nirmal is right, we would never know if Nadal achieved those finals he would win more. There is more to it, but of course, a win is a win and is what matters the most in the end. But as pointed by the Davydenko analogy, HxH is not the main factor.


Gorgeous George Says:

Yes agreed Daniel. Nadal is simply better than Fed (except indoors).


Daniel Says:

GG
And grass, don’t forget grass;-)


Gorgeous George Says:

Well 2-1 is just too small a sample especially with Nadal winning the last one but sure if you insist as I’m aka Very Generous George!


Michael Says:

If Roger had not made those finals at Rolland Garros and Master series clay tournaments, his H2H would have looked better, well it may be the case. Similarly, if Rafa had not made those World Tour finals and other indoor finals his H2H also could have titled the scales much in his favour against Roger. But you cannot look at their match up in such a narrow perspective. The point is a great Champion like Roger comes to a match against Rafa with a negative mindset. He loses the match in his head even before they head to the court. He makes lot of silly UEs and shank shots and volleys which he normally makes at ease against Rafa. That just goes to show the inferior mindset of Roger against Rafa which is definitely not adding him any value.


Daniel Says:

Michal,

Actually Nadal only made 1 final, in 2010, all the other 4 times were semis or lower, with Fed wining 3 and Nadal 1 (the latest last year) plus the final where Fed won.

If you think that they are together in top 10 since 2005, having met 5 times in 9 years is low, having in mind that Nadal only played 6 times out of this 9 years (skipped 05′, 08′ and 12′) and only won a set against Fed in 2010 (his best year to date) and last time they played. Had he played 05 and 08 I bet Fed would win 1 more or both.

Similar with Cincinati last year, the only time they played there and it took Nadal 3 sets in a close match with Fed not on his prime and Nadal in his best HC form.

The past is past and we can only speculate, but it’s very convenient for Nadal to be playing Fed on fast courts after he turned 32.


jonathan Says:

It is convenient to say Fed lose to Nadal because he’s “in his head” as it puts the match on Fed’s racquet.

No. In actuality, Federer makes more UEs against Nadal simply because Nadal forces Federer out of his comfort zone and to go for less margin on his shots.

Up until the last few years, Federer owned everybody indoors, not just Nadal. He was simply unplayable.

Similarly, Djokovic was never in Nadal’s head (to the point where it had an impact on the result). Djokovic was simply too good in 2011.

Once Nadal turned all of 22, all Fedal outdoor matches were on Nadal’s racquet.

When the top four meet, the mental edge is simply overrated.


jonathan Says:

In addition, Nadal has won the last four slam meetings with Novak.

While I don’t believe Rafa is in Novak’s head, I do believe that the moment/opportunity is (which is why he hired Becker).


Purcell Says:

Correction Okiegal, Roger is a special man to his fans.


Okiegal Says:

@Purcell^^^^^

I’m glad you feel that way about him……I know he would be honored.


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