Federer Seeks Sixth Basel Title; Murray Beats Ferrer, Closes In On London Berth
by Staff | October 25th, 2014, 6:32 pm
  • 135 Comments

Roger Federer will bid for a sixth Basel title Sunday in Switzerland against surprise finalist David Goffin. Federer advanced to his 11th final in his hometown after dismissing Ivo Karlovic in three sets 7-6(8), 3-6, 6-3.

“I’m relieved, always in a match like this against someone who can serve as big as Ivo,” said Federer who survived a 33 ace afternoon from Karlovic. “It was a good feeling get out of it as the winner. I thought it was impressive how big he served. I didn’t expect the break in the third set, so I was happy to get that and bring it home.

“I never thought I would be this successful at this tournament. I’m hoping to enjoy the final and that the crowd will be as good as it was today. It would mean the world to me to win in Basel. It’s going to be an exciting but a tough match.”

Federer also has the No. 1 ranking in his sights. A win tomorrow puts him in striking distance (490 points) of Novak Djokovic next week in Paris where 1,000 ranking points are up for grabs.

Goffin, who’s been red hot of late, also went three sets ousting rising 17-year-old Borna Coric 6-4, 3-6, 6-3 to win his 11th straight match.

“I’m really happy today, but it was a tough match,” said Goffin who is playing in his first 500 final. “I’m really tired and it was tough to focus today. I made a lot of mistakes on easy balls, but I’m really happy to win today.”

In Valencia, Andy Murray virtually locked up a London bid beating rival David Ferrer 6-4, 7-5 to reach the final against another Spaniard, Tommy Robredo.

“After the US Open I was aware that I would need to win a lot of matches to try to reach the [Barclays ATP World] Tour Finals,” said Murray. “So it was important for me to try and get as many matches as I can against the top players between now and the end of the year.”

Murray will seek his third title this fall against Robredo who was a winner over Jeremy Chardy to earn his 500th career victory.

“It’s going to be a tough match,” Robredo said. “He’s in great form, but we’ll see who starts better and who holds their ground. I hope to play a good match.”

A win for Murray will move him into 5th position in the London Race, virtually assuring him a berth in his home event.


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Federer Seeks Sixth Basel Title Sunday Against Del Potro; Ferrer In Valencia Final

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135 Comments for Federer Seeks Sixth Basel Title; Murray Beats Ferrer, Closes In On London Berth

Gordon Says:

Fed has reached the finals of this tournament 11 times, and that’s with a 4 year gap between his 2nd and 3rd appearance.

Here’s the stuff that dreams are made of for Federer fans -

And there are a lot of “If”s here -

If he wins Basel, Paris and goes undefeated at the YEF, his first singles match at the DC Final will have him going for his 1000th career match win.

If he loses 1 of the round robin matches OR goes undefeated but loses the YEF final then his second singles match at the DC Final will see him trying for his 1000th single win.

All scenarios above would have him finishing the year end at #1, even if Djokovic were to defeat Fed in the final.

But like I wrote – a lot of “If”s.


Gordon Says:

I should say, that’s even if an undefeated In the round robin Djokovic were to defeat Fed in the YEF Tournament.


skeezer Says:

@Gordon,
Nice “ifs” ;)


Daniel Says:

The last sentence is not true. You are not assumung in your scenario that Djokovic can reach Paris final.

If Fed beast Djokovic in Paris final he reduces the difference between them to 90 pts (Djoko has 9010 plus 600 = 9610). Fed with Basel and Paris (8020 + 500 + 1000) = 9520.
So of Djoko beats Fed in London final he is YE#1 even if he loses one round robin.

For Fed to be #1 with no Londo title Djokovi would have to lose first roudn Paris to gain only 10 pts entering London with 9020 ao the max he could add is 10520 if winning undefeated. This way Fed would need to go to final undefeated and they would tie at 10520 pts. If DC points count Fed #1 if not don’t know the ceiteria for tie.

But you are wrong in saying regardless pf
djokovic because you probably forget to count hos Paris result.


Toilet Break Says:

What if Djoker looses in the first round of Paris ? Will Fed become #1 straightaway ??


Gordon Says:

Thanks for that Daniel. You are correct.

That brings up another crazy “what if”-

If Fed wins Basel and Paris, defeating Djokovic in Paris, their points totals going into London would be -

Djokovic – 9610. Federer – 9520.

Suppose they both go undefeated in round robin in London but both lose in the semi finals (unlikely, but just for the sake if this scenario) then Djokovic would still be 90 points ahead of Federer with only the Davis Cup to go.

By winning both matches at the Davis Cup final (should Wawrinka also win his first round DC match OR Switzerland wins their doubles match, Fed could possibly – by winning the Sunday match – do the following -

1) Clinch Switzerland their first Davis Cup
2) Finish the year end #1
3) Win his 1000th career match.


skeezer Says:

Fed has just broken in the 2nd ( won the 1st ). Methodical.


Polo Says:

The Basel crowd is very well-behaved thus time. Roger is up to breaks and now serves for the match. It’s in the bag now.


Sienna Says:

I believe criteria for tie is h2h


Sirius Says:

The guy said that his goal was to win at least 5 titles this season. Goal achieved. Well done, fed


Sienna Says:

could also be lesser tourneys played, slamwins etc but h2h is down the line a dealmaker for #1


Humble Rafa Says:

What happened to the coffin?


skeezer Says:

Great tourney and run by the Maestro. Muller, Istomin, Dimitrov, Ivo. No QF nor W/C in his path. Well earned! Congrats!


Daniel Says:

Congrats Fed on another Basel title!

5th title indeed as target.
If he wins one of the next 2 and DC that would be a #1 year in my view.

Go Fed!!


NK Says:

“Suppose they both go undefeated in round robin in London but both lose in the semi finals (unlikely, but just for the sake if this scenario) then Djokovic would still be 90 points ahead of Federer with only the Davis Cup to go.”

Wrong. Djoker won the WEF title last year, so he loses points if he does not win again.


Daniel Says:

2500 ranking points ans 490 separating Djoko from Fed.

The battle is on. Any match this two play from now on could be vital.


I Love Tennis Says:

Congrats Roger … Well done.


Polo Says:

I won’t be disappointed if Roger does not end up number one this year. I’m happy enough the way his year has turned out so far. But I could still be happier.


Brando GOAT poster Says:

Congrats to Goffin on a excellent run and continuation of good results.


steve-o Says:

Congrats to Federer on his sixth Basel title! Tough tournament with some quality opponents (Istomin, Dimitrov, and Karlovic) along the way. But he made it. Bravo!


Daniel Says:

Now go Murray and win valencia and get almost in for London.
Effort reward winning 3 titles out of 5 tourneys played.


Humble Rafa Says:

Great tourney and run by the Maestro. Muller, Istomin, Dimitrov, Ivo

Your point is….beating midgets and claiming to be the King?


Sienna Says:

E. Ties. When two or more players have the same total number of points, ties shall be broken as follows: 1) the most total points from the Grand Slams, ATP World Tour Masters 1000 man- datory tournaments and Barclays ATP World Tour Finals main draws, and if still tied, then, 2) the fewest events played, counting all missed Grand Slams, ATP World Tour Masters 1000 tournaments and Barclays ATP World Tour Finals they could have played (as described under A. above) as if played, and if still tied, then, 3) the highest number of points from one single tournament, then, if needed, the second highest, and so on


Hippy Chick Says:

Congrats Federer and fans Polo,Michael,Jatin etc,didnt see the match and sorry as i had no desire to either,not with the way the crowd treated Ivo yesterday,IMO not proper tennis fans,merely hero worshipping glory chasers….


Sienna Says:

so i thought head2head was in there somewhere….. but there you go that is how much atp gives weight to h2h

nothing


Perfect fan Says:

First of all, many congratulations to fed for his 6th basel title and “5th of this year”.

Well now, I have to make an important announcement. I have been waiting for this moment for quite some time. Well! if you guys remember what Roger said right before the start of 2014….that he would try to win at least 5 titles. At that time, one of our fellow poster “WTF” (one of my pal, though he/she doesn’t think that way)immediately pounced on Federer….going to the extent of saying that “fed is delusional” and “old age is catching up to his mind” and that “his comments are laughing stock” and “he should start thinking of retiring rather than dreaming fantasy dreams”. Well, when I tried explaining and elaborating what fed said….that he is just setting a target and goal for himself after his disappointing 2013 season and that he is backing himself to do better at 2014, my pal WTF came out with another shocker stating that “he should think and speak rationally”, “say which he is capable of” and “he should set goals that are realistic, otherwise better keep his mouth shut”.

Well, thank you roger for meeting that target and for making my pal disappear….probably to hide that egg-stained face. As a matter of fact, the guy is hardly seen here this season….understandably so, as this has been a great season for fed with a 66-10 W/L ratio so far, 5 titles, a shot at YEN1, a shot at DC title too;).

I tried my best to convince that person that all big things are results of big dreams only….but the guy was too rigid, probably a very realistic guy….WHATEVER.

# ProudOfYouRoger
# ProudToBeYourFan


Hippy Chick Says:

Perfect Fan many people here should think about what they are saying,for fear of been left with egg on their faces,some dont believe in the expression wait and see,congrats for the win BTW,and also a pretty good year….


Perfect fan Says:

hey thr HC, thanx :)

BTW, what a match going on at the Valencia finals….onto the decider, with andy dodging 2 MPs already….phhheeeeww!!

Andy’s form of late is giving me a lot of hope for him, the upcoming season….who doesn’t want to see him back in the 2013 wimby form :)


Hippy Chick Says:

Perfect your welcome,and yeah even though im not actually waching the match as hubbys watching Chelsea v Man UTD in the football,im still on tenderhooks,Robredo is a very good tennis player,capable of going toe to toe with Andy,neither player giviving an inch :-))….


Hippy Chick Says:

Perfect your welcome,and yeah even though im not actually waching the match as hubbys watching Chelsea v Man UTD in the football,im still on tenderhooks,Robredo is a very good tennis player,capable of going toe to toe with Andy,neither player giviving an inch :-))….


Hippy Chick Says:

Excuse the double post,dont know why?….


Hippy Chick Says:

Would love to see Andy back in that 2013 Wimbledon form….


FedExpress Says:

robredo choking big time

had MPs again, lost again the TB.

broke in the third, but rebreak next

funny, all murrays title this year came through chokes

robredo and ferrer must had beaten him. what fluke titles. should have been titleless. would have been a fairer reflection.


FedExpress Says:

last year robredo was clutch

this year he blewed so many matches

against warinka, isner, twic now againt murray

wow


Hippy Chick Says:

But surely its upto players to close out matches,they all have an element of luck at times,how about all the times he was unlucky….


FedExpress Says:

yeah, but murray was thrice lucky in finals this year

rafa won 4 titles, murray will win 3 titles soon

but who deserved them more


FedExpress Says:

now murray wasts one MP

would love it if murray loses now


Skeezer Says:

Humble Rafa stated he is shut down and going under maintainence the rest of the year. Apparently not. Crazy is still in session.


Hippy Chick Says:

I dont buy that argument,they all have their fair share of luck,and i dont really know what this has to do with Rafa?


Okiegal Says:

Congrats to all Fed fans I know everyone is busting their buttons right now…..and rightfully so…..#6 for the 33 yr old. Can he win another slam? I’m excited to find out. What the future holds for Fed is exciting stuff for faithful tennis fans in general and not just Fed fans. If he knocks out Novak for the number one spot……what can I say….wow, just wow……proving age is only a number!!


Hippy Chick Says:

Carefull Okiegal been that nice about Federer wont go down well with Rafa fans,as i have found out too often….


Hippy Chick Says:

Murray in a lot of both saving those MPs,what guts there….


Kimmi Says:

WOOOOOOW! Murray did it again. What a match ;)


FedExpress Says:

hahhahaha

the middle finger from robredo

what a choker


Perfect fan Says:

Congratulations to the MURRAY CAMP!! :))

This win’s gonna HUGE for both ANDY’s confidence as well as his prospects for the rest of the season.

WELCOME BACK MUZZA


Ben Pronin Says:

Andy freaking Murray. He might have to skip Paris due to exhaustion after this.


FedExpress Says:

what a joke

won three titles by flukes


calmdownplease Says:

it’s you that’s the joke dude :)


Perfect fan Says:

Now suddenly the “Nole-Muzza” qf matchup at bercy has spiced up nicely…. :p


calmdownplease Says:

World Number 5 and on the way up!


calmdownplease Says:

Had Andy lost that in 3 he could have been out for the WTF.
A d.ISASTER
He surely won’t make more than 2 rounds
Surely?


Hippy Chick Says:

LOL Love the middle finger from Robredo,and the embrace between him and Murray,i get annoyed when they cut the ending off before we get chance to see the presentation….


calmdownplease Says:

In Paris that is


the DA Says:

i’m completely destroyed after this match. Andy showed the heart of a true champ. Haven’t seen that from him in a while. WTF is practically assured now. Margot are on a respirator? ;)


Daniel Says:

Another title over Robredo saving multiple match points back to #5 on the race and as Paris poins will drop Ferrer will drop as well.


calmdownplease Says:

I would have been cool with Tommy winning it.
They both deserved it.
I know that is a redundant statement but, whatever.


Hippy Chick Says:

Congrats CDP amazing match,its upto the opponents not to choke,so just ignore the sour grapes….


Brando GOAT poster Says:

Well done Andy! I think he’s pretty much qualified for WTF so it might be a good idea to skip Paris since he does seem like he’s close to exhaustion. He won’t though. Either way: glad he’s going to qualify on merit and is a proper top 8 player looking closer to his best. Much more to improve and he will I am sure.


Giles Says:

Some poster on here is being provocative and really does need a lambasting!
SHUT UPPPPP!!


Andrea Says:

Nice work Roger. A 46 and 52 minute match at the same tournament. Bring on Paris!


Perfect fan Says:

Winning matches after dodging multiple MPs is Champion’s stuff….not a kid’s play.

It is not just that the opponent chokes….but some sublime n impeccable returns under pressure, that makes all the difference. Its not easy at all playing points when your back pinned to the wall….fighting MPs.

Well done Andy


calmdownplease Says:

I think now that Andy has played himself back into pre Back surgery form.
He believes again too.
However, there’s one final test to pass.
A scalp from the big 3 (2)


Hippy Chick Says:

Margot come out,what a match,and what a pair of balls shown by Andy,one of the matches of the year IMO….


calmdownplease Says:

Stupidity shouldn’t be ignored HC
I feel I’m just helping out the less fortunate by taking notice (for a few seconds).


Hippy Chick Says:

Perfect Fan exactly….


Margot Says:

You lucky, lucky neutrals! What a match! Didn’t think either deserved to lose tbh. And spent most of the time thinking it was a match too many for Andy.
@ Hippy
Lol that was something else!
Andy Murray! You little beauty! Silencing all the critics in some style.


calmdownplease Says:

`..it might be a good idea to skip Paris since he does seem like he’s close to exhaustion..`

He certainly is
He’ll probably play within himself & not `lay it all down on the line` in Paris.
And if his opponents are good enough to take him,
fair enough.
But there’s still 2 weeks till London.


calmdownplease Says:

of course i doubt there much to `lay down on the line` right now haha


Margot Says:

@the DA
As I watched most of the match from the garden, no need for a respirator…;)
@ Perfect fan
Cheers
@CDP :)No 5 now in race to London.


Hippy Chick Says:

CDP please stick around,i love your no nonsense approach on this forum,you definetly know how to give as good as you get,Murray fans need you to fight our guys corner….


calmdownplease Says:

@Margot

Yeah Baby Yeah!

vroom vroom


calmdownplease Says:

Is a fight required here HC?!
I thought this was a Murray fan website?
;)


Hippy Chick Says:

CDP yeah baby,Murray fan website ;),i wish there were more Murray fans on this site,the other fan groups all seem to have an axe to grind with each other….


Perfect fan Says:

@ Margot: cheers mate ;)
I know, I m gonna sound selfish here….but I rly want andy to play in bercy too. Have to say, the qf matchup with nole is too mouth-watering to give a miss :(….esp. at this stage, when andy is in a hot streak and nole is off practice due to family time.

But nole knew, its now or never as roger is rly breathing down his neck. He will be on a mission from here on. Whatever…. its all exciting times ahead till the end.


calmdownplease Says:

Yes HC!
We just need to eliminate the embarrassing fed fans that pollute the site, like what’s his face up the thread.
The (majority) of good Fed fans here must surely hate their reputations being dragged though the mud like this.
No doubt he was in Basel the other day too for the Karlovic match, doing his bit…………
:)


Margot Says:

@Perfect fan
Lol I think Andy will need a wheel chair to get to Paris!


Hippy Chick Says:

CDP LMAO,i think all fan groups have ones that are lets say over zealous at times….


Hippy Chick Says:

Perfect Fan when Andys at his best,he is a good match up and also has the game to trouble Nole,and in this form it could be quite exciting providing Andy aint too knackered….


Perfect fan Says:

Chic, yeah exactly that was my point too….

Andy rly matches up the best against novak…..his BH is almost identical to nole’s, thats the reason nole’s fav shot (cross court BH) gets often neutralized by andy. Though andy’s FH is not that good as Nole’s….but he compensates that with other goodies like his better serve n slices.

The only problem atm I could notice in andy is that he is a touch slow in reflexes due to lack of confidence, which was exactly fed’s problem last year at this time. In fed’s case, it was back injury….in andy’s, its the recuperation post surgery.

PS: I m very confident andy will regain his peak form, come AO ’15.. :)


Hippy Chick Says:

Pefect Fan well our pyschic friend reckons Andy will win Wimbledon next year,hope hes right,be spooky if he was…


calmdownplease Says:

`Though andy’s FH is not that good as Nole’s..`

mmm I would have agreed with that a few years ago, but now I’m less sure. At least there’s much less in it now than before as Andy can really unleash on it.
But still, there were a few more UE’s still going around this week.


jane Says:

“Andy rly matches up the best against novak”

i agree they have a lot in common game wise and their matches are super tight, but going by h2h, andy almost seems to fare better vs fed, and match up well with him.

11 to 11 andy / fed
8 to 14 andy / nole

having said that, and to be fair to andy, he’s lost 2 times to fed this year and 3 to nole so the comeback from surgery has affected things.

prior to this year he was ahead in his rivalry with fed, and closer with nole at 8-11.

of the other top 4, it’s rafa he’s clearly / historically had the most trouble with, though i can’t figure out why that’s so??


calmdownplease Says:

we’ve had that discussion about nadal before Jane
And we nailed it.


Perfect fan Says:

@cdp: the FH was one of the big reason, he lost to dimitrov this wimby….that day his FH was actually on a vacation (as serena said the other night) ;)


jane Says:

oh yeah… bromance was it? ;)

but tennis-wise, it doesn’t make sense that it’s so lopsided methinks.


calmdownplease Says:

Yeah, but Murray didn’t show up for Wimbledon versus Dimitrov.
There was no weight in his shots full stop.
It was Dimitrov that felt this and said it afterwards.
The weight should be all but back now and if it isn’t yet will be after training again in December.
The hunger to win has definitely returned now.
After Today, I think that, at least, is safe to say!


Perfect fan Says:

@ jane: I was actually talking in terms of the playing style (not h2h wise), in which nole n andy while playing sometimes look like mirror images. On h2h basis, nole is ahead coz he stormed into the scene and reached his peak earlier than andy. But of late, they r almost at par.


calmdownplease Says:

He’s bad on clay Jane, and was often drawn (and for quite a few years actually)against Nadal in his formative years
Nadal was an early bloomer,
Murray was a late one.
The psychological issues built up through the defeats, it gets difficult not to carry it.
It’s why Berdych can also beat Murray whom he started off better with, but doesn’t seem to have much chance at all against Nadal/Novak.
Beaten before he gets on the court.
And while its not quite so bad in Andy’s case he still needs to break through something there.


Hippy Chick Says:

I still maintain that Andy needs to be less friendly too with his biggest rivals….


calmdownplease Says:

that was what the `Bromance` line from Jane was about dear..


jane Says:

cdp, yeah the clay thing, but out of their 20 meetings andy and rafa have played only 6 times on clay, less than a third.

whereas in their 44 meetings, nole and rafa have met 18 times on clay, which is getting close to 50%.

so i am not sure it’s down to clay for andy/rafa, or even just mental. methinks there must be a match up thing too? i don’t know. andy and rafa both can counterpunch quite a bit, so maybe that’s it, that rafa outgrinds him? that could explain the match up with andy/ferrer too.


Hippy Chick Says:

CDP sorry not following….


Brando GOAT Poster Says:

Bromance?

LMAO:

Judging by his record v the elite players then Rafa must have a bromance going on with all of the top players if that’s the cause for his winning h2h against them!

LOL! Does anyone not find it funny that:

- Clay: Rafa has achieved more than Andy on this surface.
- Grass: Rafa has achieved more than Andy on this surface.
- Hardcourt: Rafa has achieved more than Andy on this surface.

Most Tennis observer’s:

Rafael Nadal is a top 5-atleast- all time great Tennis player to have played the Sport.

Andy Murray:

For many a year has called one Rafael Nadal the greatest of all time in his opinion.

Now with all of this could it just be that:

The superior player out of the 2 produces the better Tennis consistently and that leads to him winning the majority of the time when they clash.

You know that old fashioned, common sense:

The other guy won since he produced the better Tennis. And when the other guy- Rafa- is of the level that he is on all surfaces then maybe, you know, it should kind of be expected to a degree.

Bromance?

A factless notion pushed by some as a comfort excuse for the h2h that should the ultra competitive Andy Murray hear as the cause for his losses to Rafa he more than likely- with good reason- would call it as a stupid explanation. And the ultra competitive Nadal would likely dismiss it as a insult to his performance against a player that many neutrals expect him to beat the majority of the time as he does since when you compare the 2 as players, their results on all the surfaces across their careers:

Such a h2h is hardly a shock worthy outcome. Especially when you consider Rafa has done even better against superior players like Federer.

Put simply:

I love Andy. But the cause for his losses to Rafa is hardly due a bromance. LOL. (Clearly a condition that only affects him in losses right since when he wins v Rafa I guess the bromance was low no? LOL.) It’s for the simple reason that:

Rafa- more often than not- has just been the better of the 2 when they have met. And considering his pedigree in the game, against the top players, performance on all surfaces then:

It’s hardly life’s greatest surprise to see him win more often than not.

Ditto when Andy wins: on those particular occasions he’s just produced the goods in a better manner than Rafa.

No great mystery here folks just a case of:

Arguably the superior player- Nadal- beating the other the majority of the time as his pedigree, performance in the game suggests he should do so.

Andy’s class enough to acknowledge it: time others should follow suit and not push these random notions of bromance that actually insult both performers: suggesting one’s too weak to put friendship aside and others not as good as his record suggests.

Ridiculous when you think about it.


calmdownplease Says:

I know it’s not just about clay, but remember Nadal was a slam winner at 19 and had already been on the tour for 4 years.
Although only a year older, Nadal was well ahead in match wins, slam wins over both Novak and Andy. Due in no small part to his exceptional prowess on that surface which gave him the platform to make an assault on Fed on other surfaces.
He moved well beyond both of them.
Novak was the one that grew up most quickly to address the issues and could have the belief that he might pull it off on clay (a psychological boon)as he played on clay from the start.
But really Nadal dominated both of them for quite a long time.
It was only until Novak’s 2011 white heat period that the breakthrough was truly made.
Andy hasn’t had that (might still but time is running out).
Nadal overall is a better player than Andy too if you look at the stats. So if he does want to make inroads he’s also just going to have to believe in it more and play the key matches better than he did while maturing.
Players are maturing later now anyway and yes and Andy is still not quite the complete product, even at this stage.
Its a path he’s yet walk (number one, multiple yearly slam wins Nadal), but could be close, or it might not happen at all.
Oh and You clearly haven’t been watching Valencia if you think it’s due to being `outgrinded` lol


calmdownplease Says:

`A factless notion pushed by some as a comfort excuse for the h2h that should the ultra competitive Andy Murray hear as the cause for his losses to Rafa he more than likely- with good reason- would call it as a stupid explanation..`

Oh Please,
Don’t be so sensitive, the Bromance angle is obviously not the only reason but Andy is certainly too friendly with Nadal.
The dynamics of the Novak Nadal relationship certainly changed once Novak started beating him consistently.
Andy looks up to Nadal and that a psychological advantage for him.
Sport at this level always has a mental component.


Brando GOAT Poster Says:

‘Nadal overall is a better player than Andy too if you look at the stats.’:

Thank you.

Love Andy but:

When 2 players meet and one of them has superior careers results on Clay, Grass and Hardcourts with that player being regarded as a top 5 GOAT and the other not quite in such conversation then:

Who do you expect to win most of the time?

I like Andy but:

Quite clearly he’s losing to the superior player most of the time. One he himself regards as GOAT. So he’s hardly losing to a lesser player. And even if he say hated Rafa as opposed to be friends with him:

Would you honestly believe that would change the h2h given the talent, superior career performance and regard for Nadal over Murray?

I think most intelligent individuals would say correctly that it would not make much of a difference if at all.

In conclusion:

Andy can and will beat Rafa in the future. He needs his A game not a end with his friendship with Rafa for that. But inevitably he will also lose some. Possibly more. And the records of the 2 players will indicate it’s more of a Tennis thing as opposed to a bromance affected thing.


jane Says:

agree with your assessment cdp: early development is part of it, the friendly aspect another, and then the statical performance another. nadal has generally been more consistent as well, which is another factor.


Brando GOAT Poster Says:

‘dynamics of the Novak Nadal relationship certainly changed once Novak started beating him consistently’:

LMAO:

So should one infer that Novak’s performance improved v Rafa becayse he cooled off their contact? LOL, a comical notion to hold if one would even do such a thing!With Rafa and Novak it was as such, as most believe:

They have always been on good terms and still are. But NEVER were they ultra pally at all. Ditto with Andy and Rafa. Andy even said recently they do not practise as much pre events as they used to.

This whole players being overly chummy has been blown out proportion since ultimately:

they are professional competitors who ALWAYS put numero uno first beyond others.

Novak and Rafa’s relation ONLY changed after the 0-7 NOT before, prior or during it.

There is no such evidence to suggest as such. And even then:

Novak admit’s it’s not like they suddenly became frosty with one another post 0-7 it’s just that all of a sudden they were top 2 rivals and their relation became like…………….

Nadal and Federer in the past: very respectful of one another, but because they are top dog hardly out together on a Saturday night!

A respectful, natural distance was kept due to them being top 2, but in reality the change in the relation was hardly much different at all from the past! If anything:

Novak only recently said they became closer than ever in the 2013 off season and yet he won twice this year 2 v Rafa: I guess being cool with Rafa is not the hindrance to success as some make it out lol!

Put simply:

The mental component matters. True. But that’s about having the courage to play the right Tennis at the right time in a match.

Novak Djokovic is known for this talent. Check his record in the big matches v top players.

Andy Murray- in many observer’s opinion- does not have it in the same level. And that’s not because he’s a friend of Rafa:

But because in the right moments v the top players he’s struggled most of the time. Check his record v the likes of Fed, Nole and it will show it at one time or another.


calmdownplease Says:

Stop saying you like Andy but..all the time.
I don’t give a toss who you like and calm down
please :)
But no, Rafa is not more `Talented` than Andy. Oh no, that I don’t buy. Unless you mean as a champion than tennis skills.
Then I buy it.
Better yes, overall. But not more `talented`.
As to the rest of what you are saying, well I’m sure you could have made the exact same claims about Novak versus Nadal right up till 2010.
But it would ring pretty hollow if you said it now, wouldn’t it?


calmdownplease Says:

Whats it with all these spaces, good grief!

`So should one infer that Novak’s performance improved v Rafa becayse he cooled off their contact?`

Well, no.
One should infer that Novak grew up a bit & got more serious about what is was all about however.


calmdownplease Says:

`Andy Murray- in many observer’s opinion- does not have it in the same level. And that’s not because he’s a friend of Rafa:..`

You’re overdoing it dude, the points were made clearly before you got all hysterical.
I don’t think even Xisca would throw her toys out the pram like this (unless she was paid perhaps)


Brando GOAT Poster Says:

‘I don’t give a toss ‘:

Which makes your requests of calming down and calling others sensitive the stuff of idiocy in light of your unnecessary foulness.

Well done for showing yourself up there doll!

-’Oh no, that I don’t buy.’:

Who asked you to buy anything? And a matter of fact: who would care to know?

-’But not more `talented`.’:

LOL. Nadal’s talent saw him at age 15 pushing world number one Carlos Moya to saying he struggled against him, Pat Cash saying he saw at age 14 this guy was going to win Slams. Ditto Boris Becker.

His talent saw him statistically surpass match Boris Borg’s performances as a teenager and been a Slam winner for 10 years straight.

And yet his talent as a Tennis Player is lesser than Andy Murray’s? Ok. If CDP say’s so it must be then!

-’have made the exact same claims about Novak versus Nadal right up till 2010.’:

ONLY the foolish would say the dynamic of Nadal v Djokovic in their career pre 2011, post 2011 or at any point has been the same as Nadal v Murray.

I’ll leave to decide if you are such fool.


calmdownplease Says:

`I’ll leave to decide if you are such fool..`

?!
You’re unhinged. I don’t even understand what that means. I figure you fancy yourself as quite the smarty pants but I’ll be gentlemanly and just assume you’re on your period.
So, I think my theory about some Nadal fans liking Andy as if he were a pet has been confirmed here.
But i’m not smug about it & I’m not meaning to write of all Nadal fans (of course).
Just the ones with no character (or life).


Brando GOAT Poster Says:

LMFAO:

Accusations of being hysterical, sensitive, being told that one does not give a toss (okay i guess) all in the face of another who has broken down their ridiculous assertions point by point.

Am I surprised? Not much.

Best leave this child alone now who has nothing much to offer other than baseless assertions which when challenged and broken down in a manner that display’s the weak ground on which they exist all one get’s in return is childish remarks of the most abject, adolescent level.

Pay heed to your user name I suggest and:

calm down child.

Then try conversing with adults, as your petulance is not conducive to dialogue when they reasonably destroy the weak theories you put forth.


calmdownplease Says:

You’re an Idiot
A bloviating one at that.


Polo Says:

Nadal is special. When you are special, there are no standards with which you need to be measured by or another person to be compared with. You just shine on your own regardless of how and what the others around you do.


Brando GOAT Poster Says:

Yep I am possibly dealing with a child!

Accusations of being on a period, having no character or life, being sensitive, throwing toys out of a pram etc all in the face of a reasoned arguement…………. yep I am dealing with a adolescent, a child as only that could possibly explain the unfortunate happening of such ridiculous personal remarks that are uncalled for anyhow being flung towards a poster who all that they have done is tackle a theory which they consider baseless in a reasonable manner!

It’s shameful behaviour but I am glad you have shown your manner in it’s fullest in this exchange.

This exchange is at an end and you can continue indulging in your childish ways should you wish as I have no care for what you have to offer.


jane Says:

sorry to have had this conversation blow up into a big deal, but i actually think it did clarify that there are a number of factors in the rivalry between andy and rafa, and whether or not we agree that the mental/psychological one of looking up to a rival might be a factor doesn’t necessarily negate that it’s certainly possible – one amongst the other things discussed, like earlier development, consistency, statistical performance, etc. and unprecedented excellence on one surface in particular that was then parlayed into success on the others, no doubt.


alice Says:

@Polo…thanks very much for that great comment about Rafa.
I really misunderstood you when I first posted here and I can see now you are very fair. My apologies!


calmdownplease Says:

I think that Brando believes if s/he posts enough… we’ll simply give up due to the fatigue of enduring the avalanche effect of his hundred line + spaces posts.
Only bothered with the last bit of them myself (a tip!)
And do you really feel that you are the `GOAT poster?!
What’s the matter with you?
tsk tsk.


Brando GOAT Poster Says:

@Jane, Hippy Chick:

Recently you both labelled others as bullies for certain comments. i am sure you had your fair reasons for doing so.

Jane even complained to admin about it. Fair enough.

So I have a question to put forth to you both seeing as you have notions on this topic:

When a poster calls another:

- A idiot
- Being on a period
- Not having character
- Not having a life

Does that qualify them as a bully for saying such uncalled for personal remarks in your book?

And is it cause enough to complain about it?

Or:

It depends on which poster makes the comment and who is at the receiving end of it?

I am curious:

I won’t complain since it’s not my nature to do so, but I am curious to know if such qualifies as bullying behaviour in your eyes and whether you would want to complain about it as you have done so in the past when you see what you perceive as ‘bullying’.


calmdownplease Says:

@Jane

Don’t expect to have very reasonable discussions with real FANS of a player too often.
Fan is appropriated from the word `fanatical` after all.
;)


calmdownplease Says:

Brando the GOAT
you could start a fight in a empty house
I was `bullying` you?!

pathetic.


Brando GOAT Poster Says:

@Polo:

Great comment.

Quite obviously being a superior Tennis player by virtue of the superior career performance is not reason enough for some to accept how their keeps on losing to another player.

It’s a tough one to accept.

So baseless theories have to be conjured. The kind which when the player they root would hear he’ll likely comment that it’s a load of BS that they are believing. Oh well:

If you cannot accept reality, then make a fairy tale that helps you got to sleep i guess!


Josh Says:

Keep it going, guys – this is some great entertainment :D


jane Says:

cdp, i am aware of the etymology! anyone who blogs must be.

brando, i think there are times when a number of people act bully-ish on here without using personal insults or ad homninem attacks, which i don’t like no matter who uses them.

for instance, in this conversation, i think when someone’s ideas are referenced as “LMAO” stupid, ridiculous, etc, it gets the person who made the original statement immediately defensive. which can then degenerate from there.

surely there are ways to converse and share differing opinions without belittling a person’s idea/theory OR without names, etc.?

that’s just my take. and it’s not a freaking polly-anna take either, to be clear. it’s merely the desire for simple manners and basic logic.

my two cents. spend em or toss em. up to you!


calmdownplease Says:

You’re projecting like an IMAX theatre
Anyway, you’re not even worth arguing with now
But were you ever?
hahaha


Brando GOAT Poster Says:

And know I am also ‘pathetic’ according to a poster earlier championed as a great one according to some.

I wonder what Jane and Hippy Chick think about such comments being flung at a poster when in the past calling another a dork was reason enough for them to complain in a exchange that did not involve them.

What’s worse:

Being called a dork

or

Pathetic, no life, no character, idiot, on a period and some more.

Does the latter qualify as bullying when considering the former did so Jane?

I wonder whether Jane will complain this time seeing such behaviour that could be called ‘bullying’……..


calmdownplease Says:

Look Brando I was having an adult conversation about tennis (not an argument, just an exchange of ideas) with Jane. YOU butted in with your nonsense, ignored the points that didn’t suit you so you could win a few points (in your head)and offered your usual repetitious opinions when none were solicited from you, or desired.
Next time you might want to think about not barging in such an ungracious manner?


skeezer Says:

Congrats to Andy and his fans today, fabulous win over the double middle fingered Robredo, who was really saying, “dang you Andy, did you have to wind up the winner?”, all in good fun. Was hilarious.

Gotta say this was a “scroll down” day on the this site, errrrr……thread. This should be talking about Andy’s talent and recent success, not about someone who isn’t playing or competing.
Go Andy!


Brando GOAT Poster Says:

@Jane:

Thank you for your response and also exposing your hypocritical double standards.

In one exchange a poster called another a ‘dork’ (that too against a poster who in the past, unprovoked, called the other poster way nastier things- no complaints from you then though!)- which did not involve you- but you labeled it as bullying since it happened to a favourite of yours on here.

Here: similar deal. But with a twist.

Now another poster in a exchange that, again, does not involve you get’s called way worse and yet you say …………… nothing.

No complain, no cause for telling off etc. All because it’s a poster you don’t get on with.

Comical.

I am glad you addressed the comment since quite clearly such things- i.e. complaining, accusing others of bullying- is only something you indulge in when it suits you. When it relates to those you are fan of or not.

Some may consider that hypocritical, double standard ridden, not being principled but rather toeing lines of favoritism either way:

I am glad you played ball and I think atleast now folks can see that in future when you complain it may have less to do with principle but more to do with who is the offender and recipient.

Thank you playing ball!

PS:

CDP- eloquently- just throw the unprovoked comment of nonsense, butted in (something you did in the dork exchange some could say seeing as it had no relevance to you no) care to comment on this latest development of possibly bullying or does it not bother you this time as it’s a non-fav?


skeezer Says:

Jane,
“freaking polly-anna”..??
Wow. You can talk dirty ;).
I am surprised!


jane Says:

oh sigh brando, you are hard to reason with.

as i said, i don’t support ad hominem attacks.

BUT neither is it okay to insult a person’s ideas by calling them stupid, ridiculous, LMAO funny etc… if you had joined in the discussion between cdp and i in a more friendly manner maybe it wouldn’t have degenerated into what it did.

also, you were attacking hippy chic the other day, you’ve attacked contador, myself, and now cdp.

why?

you can speak eloquently and make good points about tennis, so why the need to pick all these fights? seems highly unnecessary.


jane Says:

skeezer, what the freaking? lol.


Skeezer Says:

Jane,
Lol. ;)


Okiegal Says:

@Chick 2:25

LOL…..I don’t really care….Roger got his 6th title at Basel…..and that’s something to crow about! Sure, I would have loved for Rafa to be in the finals with him, but not to be.

Congratulations to all the Fed fans and Andy fans too!! Moving on, next tournament please!!

Speedy recovery for Rafa regarding his impending surgery!!


Hippy Chick Says:

Agree with Jane,i think we all need to calm down a bit,Brando and CDP need to stop attacking each other,and Brando you need to stop attacking everyone else personally because they dare to disagree with you,and Brando i did apologize to you for the Laurel and Hardy comment,and i too apologize to Giles,so you both either accept it or you dont,its entirely up to you….


Giles Says:

Cdp. One boisterous dude! Time to change your moniker!!


Hippy Chick Says:

Polo @5.50pm October 26th,fantastic post,you have really made my day after reading that….


Hippy Chick Says:

To add fans dont need to put down the achievements of others,to make themselves feel better about their favorites achievements either….


Brando GOAT poster Says:

Wow. Quite clearly its one rule for some and another for others. The hypocritical, double standards applied by some is beyond pathetic. Yep: —- em. Got no use dealing with posters who’s contributions anyhow tepidly arise above miopic at best in their views of the game, a silly bunch who subscribe to warped, nonsensical beliefs on their precious favs and toe along the path of pallying upto those who like their fav, are of their gender and then cowardly apply a different standard to others who are not. What a weasel like bunch. Out.


calmdownplease Says:

@HippyChic

I wasn’t in the least bit `not calm`.
And I’ll decide how I deal with some of the creatures on this site.
And the moderators can decide whether to do something about it.
Not you.


Hippy Chick Says:

CDP oh dear sorry i spoke,just to say i like your posts and i like Brandos too,as you both put across some good points,i shouldve kept well away,and i will in future,no harm was meant on my part anyway….


Okiegal Says:

There hasn’t been this much excitement on TX since I said that Roger was a spoiled arrogant brat…..not to bring that up again……just an observation!!

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