Fedal Wars: In The GOAT Debate, Are Nadal Fans Rooting Against Federer To Win His First Davis Cup?
by Sean Randall | November 22nd, 2014, 3:41 pm
  • 133 Comments

One of the few things missing from Roger Federer’s resume that is on Rafael Nadal’s is the Davis Cup. Now Federer, the current GOAT, is just three sets from finally getting his Davis Cup trophy.

Reading these boards, it’s clear the thought of Federer with a Davis Cup title is making a good number of Nadal fans restless. Why? Because Federer winning the Davis Cup absolutely adds to his legacy and GOAT candidacy, as it should. The Davis Cup is a massive achievement in this sport, far bigger, I think, than say an Olympic gold which really only came into prominence in the last 15 years or so. (Both Nadal and Federer have golds already, Federer’s though is in doubles.)

That said, Nadal can score big GOAT points in January. A second Australian Open title, thwarted by Federer’s friend Stan Wawrinka this season, would give Nadal TWO career Grand Slams. That’s pretty darn good. But so too is a Davis Cup.

Warning: If you don’t want to talk “Fedal”, go somewhere else. In keeping with the spirit of this debate, this is an almost-anything goes thread.


You Might Like:
Fedal Wars: Nadal Well Ahead Of Federer In Masters Titles, But Does It Matter In The GOAT Discussion?
Roger v Rafa Fandom: The Fedal Wars Rage On
Fedal Wars: Federer Admits Nadal Could Catch His Grand Slam Total “Quickly”
Fedal Wars: Agassi Puts Nadal Ahead Of Federer On The GOAT List, Is He Right?
Fedal Wars: Chardy Says Rafael Nadal Will Pass Roger Federer In Grand Slams

Don't miss any tennis action, stay connected with Tennis-X

Get the FREE TX daily newsletter

133 Comments for Fedal Wars: In The GOAT Debate, Are Nadal Fans Rooting Against Federer To Win His First Davis Cup?

Hippy Chick Says:

LOL A good old fashioned GOAT debate,wheres that been,havent had one of those in months?anyway going over posts on the other thread,i only saw posts from one Rafa fan restless about Federer winning the DC,the rest dont seem to care,still some will still want to create an argument out of nothing i suppose,i think the Swiss team will win the DC,and this is coming from a Rafa fan that doesnt care about the GOAT debate….


rogerafa Says:

@ Sean

The Swiss team wins the DC if it ends up winning it. It is a team competition and no single individual wins it for himself. Tennis is primarily an individual sport and, at best, Roger would be part of the winning squad in case of a Swiss win. DC’s importance has gone way down over the years. The five set format is the only saving grace. The atmosphere for the final with a word record tennis audience is great though. Roger has been booed on both days and I am sure the third day will not be any different. It was a nice change from the normal and I actually enjoyed it.

I personally do not think that winning or not winning DC or singles gold changes anything. Andre’s DC or singles gold have not helped him climb up the list of all-time greats. Here’s a related article:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/tennis/2014/11/19/roger-federer-davis-cup-switzerland/19279607/


Giles Says:

It wasn’t too long ago that fedfans were denigrating DC saying it wasn’t important that a DC win was missing from Fed’s CV. Seems they have changed their minds since fed is so close to achieving this now. Oh, the irony of it all. Lol
Rafa has FOUR!!!
Don’t compare a Doubles Olympic Gold to a Singles Olympic Gold. Chalk and cheese!! If you do then let’s add all Rafa’s doubles titles to his Singles! That would be fair, no?


Emily Says:

If ever someone wanted to start a debate on a message board, this is it. As Sean suggested to those who aren’t part of the Fedal debate, I’m staying out of it, but I just want everyone to be as respectful as possible.


RZ Says:

I think Davis Cup adds to a player’s legacy, but really doesn’t add much in terms of the GOAT debate, mostly because it’s a team competition and some counties (Spain, France) have much deeper teams to field than others.


TennisVagabond.com Says:

I’m sure the Davis Cup means an incredible amount to the players, and it is a great thing for fans to point to as part of a player’s accomplishment. But tennis is an individual sport and DC is a team event. When you have a great teammate, as Rafa has had with Ferrer who has been ranked 4-5 for many years now, then it would be disappointing not to challenge for the Cup. Wawrinka has not been an elite player until the last year. The context is everything. Dan Marino is considered an all time great quarterback with zero championships- and that is a team sport day in day out.
At the end of the day, no once considers Berdych an all time great because he won TWO Davis Cups- two more than Fed so far, one more than Novak.
Its a great accomplishment, but not what we judge the greatest players by.


mark Says:

Spain has more depth than Switzerland, so that explains why Nadal has so many. The DC shows the pride they have for their country but adds little to any personal achievments. Federer is greater than Nadal but IMO there can’t be a greatest ever because the technology of the today makes tennis just a test of who can last the longest. Federer’s game is amazing to watch. Nadal can win more slams but for me Federer will always be greater because he did equally well on all surfaces. If Rafa was in a different era Federer could possible have 2-3 calendar year grand slams. Nadal is a great clay court player and Federer is just plain great. None of the weak era arguments please. Because of Federer others had to find the will to raise their own games to challenge him. He’s the reason they sacrifice so they can challenge his legacy. That is why he is great.


Peter Says:

Federer has been a great player and an excellent ambassador for our game. If you’re talking GOAT, you’d be comparing him to people like Borg, Sampras, McEnroe or Laver. But you don’t have to go that far. There’s someone in his own era who is 23-10 against him. That means Federer has lost to him more than 2-1 and in his prime. How can you be the greatest of all time in a sport when you’re not even the greatest in your own time. How can you have a massively losing record against someone and be considered the GOAT. It doesn’t make sense. Federer is the most successful slam winner in history. Before Federer won that many slams, the leader was Sampras yet I don’t think many considered him the GOAT. There’s nothing wrong with being a fan, even a big fan. Obviously the GOAT conversation is pretty lame in general. You can never put all those people from different eras with different equipment into the same tournament. It’s subjective. But if you’re being honest, a true GOAT should on paper at least, be able to theoretically beat anyone else from all time. He’s losing 2-1 in his own time. Great player – yes. Most successful slam winner ever – yes. GOAT – sadly no.


NK Says:

“But if you’re being honest, a true GOAT should on paper at least, be able to theoretically beat anyone else from all time.”

True. By your own logic, you might be tilting the argument in Fed’s direction. Put Fed in the 70, 80s or 90s, and with his all court game, finess, S&V skills, I don’t see anyone else (except perhaps Novak) from today’s generation being on top in those eras.

Nadal is truly a product of this generation — with slower high-bouncing courts, today’s raquet technology allowing for unbelelievable amount of top spin, etc. In fairness to him, he more than anyone else leveraged best what today’s technology offered him, but frankly with the faster grass and hard courts of the 80s and 90s, I am hard pressed to see how he could have won a non-clay title back in the day.

Which is why GOAT debates are meaningless. No one could have done what Federer did with his talent. And no one could have done what Nadal did with his determination and grit. Each of their achievements stands alone and requires no asterisks of any kind. As I write this, there is Novak knocking on the GOAT debate as he is still a few grand slams away, but he surely does have the all-round skills that had made Federer great.


Ben Pronin Says:

What constitutes a Davis Cup title for an individual player? How does Nadal have 4 if he’s only played in, I think, 2 or 3 finals?

I don’t remember any Federer fans saying Davis Cup isn’t important. It’s just not something that’s “oh my god! what a horrible hole in his resume!” Federer established himself as the GOAT and everything he does now is bonus. Nadal is one of the 3 greatest players of all time and he can’t be considered the GOAT unless he passes Federer. But all of his other records are just bonuses.


Bob Lewis Says:

I define greatest as the most successful. Greatest doesn’t mean perfect, and the slams aren’t the only measure.


Dc Says:

There are only two records in any sport
- major tournaments won
- time spent as no 1

All other so called records are merely stats collected as part of the endeavor to achieve these two records
No one , absolutely no one in any sport would say that he is happy beating his competitors in favourable conditions ( nadal on clay surface during Feds prime)but not winning major tournaments.Fed during his prime has a h2h advantage over nadal on grass and HC – two of the three surfaces on which tennis is played.
So the h2h number talked about by various posters do not reflect a true picture if th rivalry.

One could therefore strongly put forth the argument that federer is the goat.

Nadal though ridiculously awesome hasn’t proven that he is the goat – he matches Sampras in terms of major tournaments but his weeks at no 1 is really low .


Michael Says:

I am wondering how a Davis Cup victory would solidify one’s GOAT status ? We need to figure out how come a Team’s victory be equated with individual glory ? Nobody can win Davis Cup single handedly. The one player I remember who nearly did it was Bjorn Borg who individually took his Country to Davis Cup Victory when the Swedish Team was handicapped by lack of good players and Borg single handedly and exceptionally filled the void by his radiating brilliance. Fortunately, for Roger, the Swiss Team is quite strong hosting two of the best players in the current juncture and that makes your job more easy. But, still the job is tough and yet to be completed by the way. As I maintained many times before, the whole GOAT debate is pointless and a mere academic exercise. Three can be no conclusive evidence where everybodys views would synchronize to descend on a single player. May be when there is a consensus on the existence of a GOD, we might find a way to find out the real GOAT. But, as it is, it appears to be a futile exercise with little head way. For every Tennis critic, the evaluation and yardsticks would be different and ofcourse everyone will have their own bias and prejudice while analysing the profile of the privileged select few. For some, Laver would be the GOAT, while a few would even hold the flag for Pancho Gonzalez for his immense talent. Not to mention Bjorn Borg too who would also be in contention for the GOAT status. So, the discussions would just be endless and meaningless. Right now, all that can be said is Tennis is really blessed to have two of the Greatest Champions parallely namely Roger and Rafa who have brought glory to the Sport by their sheer excellence and provided added glamour, charm and been an excellent Public Relation Executives for the Sport. In short, they have been an inspiration for the younger generation which Novak too has quoted often in his after match interviews. He has unequivocally stated that Roger and Rafa have made him the player he is today. What more honour do these Champions need than these words ?


roy Says:

federer could have had at least one if not multiple davis cups by now if he’d committed properly. stan has been a top 50 player for a long time.

i don’t think anyone believes federer wasn’t capable of winning this.

remember what berdych and stepanek did.

yeah fed and stan lost to the czechs, lost the americans. but if you play enough you eventually get good draws and home ties on your preferred surface.

there were a few years he clearly just didn’t commit too much and hung stan out to dry.


chobbs Says:

@peter, its a considerable head to head advantage ar 23-10 but take out clay and nadal only passed him on h2h at the end of last year, so only as fed passed the age of 32 has nad passed him. I’m a big sampras fan but if he had reached more clay finals against agassi then their h2h would be much different I think,fed has been good enough to reach four RG finals v nad and seven plus at masters series level on clay. He’s the best ever on clay but take away brick dust wins and its not looking so balanced


chobbs Says:

And by balanced I mean overall titles etc , in terms of h2h it would be pretty balanced


Okiegal Says:

As a faithful Rafa fan I’m gonna have to put my two cents in…….Rafa has proved he’s an all court player……I guess he’s over done it when it comes to clay…….LOL They’re both awesome and so is Novak…….but he’s got lots of catching up to do. Still say it should be GOTT and not GOAT because there are so many great players prior to these two…..I just don’t think it’s fair to them.


nadalista Says:

Sean Randall is an idiot.


Okiegal Says:

@Peter 8:13…..I missed this post so I more or less echoed what you said here. I totally agree with you….penned nicely. I too think it’s a moot point, too many greats of yesteryear…..do we just forget about them and their accomplishments?? Makes no sense to me. Greatest of all time?? When does the
“all time” cease? I say when the world is no more…..looking at it from that standpoint…really stupid discussion imo!


skeezer Says:

“Are Nadal Fans Rooting Against Federer To Win His First Davis Cup?”
Really? Why give credence to one jealous poster that has been spewing this anti-Fed stuff since the DC finals began?
There is no war here, Fed won it a long time ago and when his career is finished there will be an exclamation point, not a question mark. He doesn’t need a DC title to claim anything.


Giles Says:

@nadalista. You forgot to include skeezer.


Hippy Chick Says:

I really dont care about the GOAT debate or the H2Hs,but im just wondering why the old cliche with posters saying without clay whats Rafa got,and the H2H would be very lopsided,since when was clay not considered a perfectly legitimate surface?….


Gordon Says:

Nadal will be terrifyingly good in 2015, and so much lighter now that his appendix has been removed.

And did you see the size of it? Now considered a national treasure by all of Spain, the extracted organ has been bronzed and is on display under a glass cover at the Mosque–Cathedral of Córdoba.


Hippy Chick Says:

IMO Rafas 14 would be better than Petes,and his resume is more even, granted Pete has way more weeks at number 1,more USOs,Wimbledons,yet Rafa has multiple GS on all surfaces, plus the career GS,where Petes only done it on two,and has no career GS….


Margot Says:

Can’t see Rafa fans being too bothered one way or the other tbh.
And whether Swiss win or lose this one Fed’s legacy will neither be enhanced nor diminished IMHO.


Nirmal Kumar Says:

Imagine Roger loses both his matches in the finals and still Swiss win the Davis cup, will Roger be called GOAT because he has davis cup title to his name?


Gordon Says:

Well Nirmal, you may not realize it, but it is not only a team competition, but the team has to win 4 ties in the year and Federer did extremely well in the other 3 ties so yeah, he can hold his head high and bathe his twin boys in the trophy.

Goodness that thing is huge.


Gordon Says:

nadalista Says:
Sean Randall is an idiot.

November 23rd, 2014 at 12:29 am

••••••••••••••••••••••••

This is like discovering the Holy Grail – in 5 words nadalista embodies everything about being a troll – doing nothing but pointlessly attacking an administrator of this site.

The adage is “Don’t feed the trolls,” but in 5 words he/she/it has elevated himself/herself/itself to the pinnacle of trolldom.

His/her/its mother must be so proud.


brando GOAT poster Says:

@Margot: spot on post. It’s like Federer said ‘Davis cup does not mean as much today’ or Djokovic recently said ‘winning it does not add much to feds legacy’. Personally speaking: Davis cup is a moot point in this fedal debate. In a conversation between 2 individual players why on earth does a team competition become a decisive point? It doesn’t matter at all in my opinion. I mean Rafael having 4 DC to Fed’s 1- does that give a advantage, of course not. Berdych winning 2 did that raise him in the esteem of others? I think not. As for nadal fans being anti Swiss: lol, look beyond Nadal fans and you’ll see most non Fed fan’s rooting for France. Guess they are all haters too right? Lol, let’s not make a mountain out of a molehill.


Giles Says:

Gordon. Why are you insulting @nadalista? Did she address you in the first place? I certainly don’t think your mother is proud!!! Pfffffffffft!!


Hippy Chick Says:

Margot well said….
Brando true even Skeezer,TV,Rogerafa have all alluded to the fact,that as much as they would love to see Federer winning the DC,it doesnt have any bearing on his legacy one way or the other,also Wogboys pulling for the French and hes a Novak fan,so im thinking it might just be possible some people actually would like the French team to win because they happen to like them,and not because they have some ulterior motive,but then again some people like to find a quarel thats not even there….


Gordon Says:

Giles – my mother has long passed, but at least I knew who she was. 😛

Typical that if anyone was going to defend someone who insulted the admins if this site it would be you.


Hippy Chick Says:

I wasnt bothered either way about who won,i only wanted to see some great tennis,so in that regard ive not been dissapointed,as Federer has played fantastic,Richie has alot of talent,but theres not much any player can do when Rogers returning like he has in this match,the thing im dissapointed with will be not seeing Stan play Gael,as i think that match wouldve been a cracker….


Hippy Chick Says:

Gordon that was uncalled for,lets not bring posters families into things?….


Hippy Chick Says:

Ditto Giles ….


Nirmal Kumar Says:

Gordon, I understand. You navigate through the ties, but it’s not always in your hand. My point is, DC cannot be linked to individual players achievement. Its great to have, but that’s not going to decide Roger’s career.


Giles Says:

HC. Thank you.


Gordon Says:

Nirmal – you are right and everyone is going a little over the top with this, probably partially because of the drama of last weekend that the media hyped to get to this, and partially because damn… That’s it for tennis for awhile.


Hippy Chick Says:

Im ready to be laughed at ha ha ha dont care,but IMO Rafa was the player of the year,reason is he won the FO for the 9th time,and also a GS for the 10th straight year,in both cases no players ever done either,i expect Sienna and Anna will blow a blood vessel,oh the very idea,ha ha ha dont care….


Alexandra Says:

It’s pretty simple to me, There is No GOAT!

Federer needed Stan to win, so how can it be that important for his single achievements. It may add to that, but not more than that. Roger and Rafa are two of the best tennis player ever, that is enough to know. How do you even compare with other generations? There is too much going into it.


Hippy Chick Says:

Its pretty simple to me too actually,some people cannot be completely happy unless they are making others completely miserable,seems the norm on this forum….


caleb Says:

You’re an idiot.
Nadal is clearly greater than Federer, even at non-ATP events. Olympic singles and Davis Cups No Nadal fan cares if Federer wins one Davis Cup, Nadal has 4.
Also all that superficial style debate going on in tennis about Federer being greater because his classicism and effortlessness is so passe. Efficacy is the main factor and Nadal has the highest winning percentage in a career in the whole Open Era. Add to the fact that Federer’s style differences being possible because he came 5 years before Nadal on the circuit, and that Federer had a relatively weaker era, shows that Nadal is the GOAT.

Even that underlying surface debate going on is baloney: That Federer is so versatile coz he won 7 grass court slams and 9 hardcourt slams. Those surfaces of the earlier era can be put into one typology: Very fast and low-bouncing. So I really dont see any versatility trumping Nadal there either. Federer has just one plexucushion slam (Aussie Open 2010) and one clay slam. The rest all fall under that one-dimensional category. (just like you’ll Federer fans downplay Nadal’s clay and medium hard court domination)

Djokovic is the crux of the matter. The weak era one. If not for Djokovic, Nadal would have had a five in a row slam, and 17 slams.
Also, he has more titles than Safin, Hewitt, Roddick and Nalbandian, combined. So there’s no question about the weak era being fake. Even Murray has better stats than any one of those 4,


skeezer Says:

^a belieber.lol


Okiegal Says:

@Giles 11:53……Thanx 4 that link….LOVED IT!!

VAMOS!!


Giles Says:

Okie. You’re welcome. :)


Polo Says:

Even though Nadal has 14 to Sampras’s 15, I will still put Nadal a couple of steps above Sampras who is a step short of crap on clay.


Polo Says:

I have a feeling that people who call others idiots are not very smart. Only idiots start out an argument that way. Nobody will take you seriously.


Giles Says:

Polo. Rafa is tied with Sampras at 14.


PK kim Says:

I think Nadal is clear clay court GOAT. There is no one in history who dominated clay courts like him.

Federer’s 17 slam open era record will be broken soon by someone.
If not Nadal, someone truely dominating player will do.

In pre-Open era, if you count pro slams, guys like Laver, Gonzalez won 20+ slams. It’s just 70s-90s when it’s harder to win many slams.

Neither Nadal nor Federer was truly dominating player.
We will have a true dominating player who dominates nearly a decade.

The true open era record to break is Sampras’ 6 straight year end #1.


Okiegal Says:

In a recent interview the interviewer made mention about Fed and Novak becoming parents……”And you, when”?. Rafa: “I’m a family person, love children, want to have more than two, but nowadays is a matter of timing, preferences, how life flows. I am still living with my parents”. Interviewer: ” Well, it’s about time!” (Like this was any of his business, Okie said this) Rafa’s answer:”Without having a stable life, everything is a little more complicated. It’s also necessary to know the mentality of Mallorcans who are very much family people and be lucky enough to find a partner who understands you and goes in line with your way of thinking. I have been that lucky. My partner has never put pressure on me for anything that could alter what I think is best for me, for my career and for our relationship. My girlfriend is younger than me. She also has to work for her personal motivations, and luckily her personal motivation has not been to be the girlfriend of Rafael Nadal, but to be herself and be competitive in what she has done, which is to study”.

I thought this was interesting and strictly for Rafa fans. I put it on this thread because Rafa’s name was attached to it…..now to get around to the GOAT aspect of the issue at hand…..Roger is the GOAT OF parenthood……two sets of twins, WOW! For Rafa to get top billing on that issue, well…he would need to have two sets of triplets! Lol

I would have done this with a link, but not savvy enough. Sorry it was long, but I’ve seen longer!
I apologize to non Rafa fans for the length of the post.


Polo Says:

Oops! That’s right. Nadal is tied with Sampras at 14 which makes Rafa even farther ahead of him in my book. Thanks, Giles, for pointing that out…and for not calling me an idiot which would have been well-deserved.


Hippy Chick Says:

Okiegal Rafa has said that he wants marraige and kids etc,but is focused on his career for the moment,and Xisca is studying for a Unniversity buisness degree,they seem to share a comfortable and happy life supporting each others careers without the need to live in each others pockets,Xiscas very indepandant and doesnt exist as Rafas girlfriend,she is very much her own person,Rafa and the whole Nadal family support that….


Hippy Chick Says:

Polo nice post,Rafa as i pointed out earlier has multiple GS on all surfaces,and also a career GS,something Sampras as great as he is never did,if Rafa gets to 15 GS it wont even be an issue anymore?im not greedy but i have my fingers crossed….


sienna Says:

i like rafa a lot, but he will not be player of the year.
perhaps in bedroom when xisc finaly gets her c levels.

player of the year will be djokovic.

but performance in a single tournement will be Marin Cilic.
The level at which he played 2nd week of USOPEN was the highest a single player has ever performed. So far he hasnot been able to show us that level again, maybe it will return down under.

Nadal has his treatment, but it is perfect time to refill all the necessary boodvalues. he can unlimitless take again his blooddope which gave him his 2013 comeback.
Nadal will be hard to stop at AU Open.


Max Pinto Says:

GOAT should be based on consistency: weeks as ATP#1, slams across various surfaces, which slam is the most highly respected, as confirmed by a Google search, year-end ATP titles, H2H, how players would have fared with technological help in terms of rackets, how they would have performed on the faster surfaces of the 70s and 80s, etc.

Davis Cup wins are the result of TEAM effort. Gold medal winners are awarded with 1000 points = a Masters 1000 title.

Injury problems shoukd be solved by the person who suffers injuries.

Consistent time violations constitute cheating and should be duly penalized.

Need I say more?


Hippy Chick Says:

I was clearly kidding in my earlier post about Rafa been player of the year,but as usual people get their knickers in a twist,clearly Novak was player of the year although even he didnt actually dominate as nobody did,all of the top guys did well at different times,so each set of fans has reason to be happy about the way the year turned out,but i think we should leave players sex lives out of it all getting rather personal,and Xiscas also a clever lady studying for a Unniversity degree,not that its anybody elses buisness….


Bob Lewis Says:

At least one adjustment is needed in the “Tennis Records” section. Nadal is 1-2 in Australian Finals.


Bob Lewis Says:

@Hippychick:

It’s not that the clay results don’t count. It’s unfair from the standpoint that many key opponents, Federer in particular, haven’t had quite the same number of matches on surfaces that are more suited to them. For example, only three matches on grass. However, it’s difficult to explain away the 2-8 deficit on outdoor hard courts. Last year, at least people can point to the back injury for those losses. It was his worst season (only 1 title).

The two key swing matches from the Fedal h2h: 2008 Wimbledon and 2009 Australian. Had those just gone 1-1, it’d be Federer 18, Nadal 13 in the slam race. It would be a different picture. However, it’s difficult to say how other results might have changed. Maybe Federer fortunes take a turn for the worse at the French Open and ends up with no titles there. That would be worse.

As-is, I don’t think 17 to 14 isn’t quite as close as it seems. Federer still has a significant advantage at 3 of the 4 slams, and on 2 of the 3 surfaces. 16 to 5.


Giles Says:

@Polo. Lol. I would never call you an idiot because you don’t deserve that tag. Can’t say I feel the same about some of your compatriots though! :))


Brando GOAT Poster Says:

Re Polo:

Polo and idiot just do not go together at all.

Those familiar with my posting history fully well know:

IF Brando thinks as such, he’ll say. And if he thinks your a chump- he’ll definitely say it!

I have p***** off many here. Water off a duck’s back.

Been praised highly by many. Cool: but I ain’t the kind fishing for a pat on the back.

Divisive reactions: part of the deal for doing your own thing.

Therefore, with that track record I can safely say:

Polo is one of the few posters on here who is GENUINELY impartial. NOT lip service impartial like some here, who pedal along the basic narrative of the game, but a intelligent individual who’s reached a level of self assured to appreciate thoae beyond their fav.

Polo is a Fed fan: but a rare one who actually recognises and admires the phenomenon that is Rafael Nadal.

I’d add Tennis Vegabond and Michael in that bracket: they can seperate their emotional attachment to their fav and still appreciate others.

Many cannot do that, only a few truly can. They are one of those few.

So yeah, idiot is a far fetched notion to apply to such posters. I can name a few others who best suit that label, but i’ll save those names as a christmas present post! p


Daniel Says:

Questions for next year:

- Federer
1 – Can he win another major? Which?
2 – Can he get back to #1 at 33/34?
3 – If he doesn’t win a Slam for the third straight year and being 34 what’s to play for in 2016 after Rio Olympics?
4 – Will he continue late form and be able to finish 2015 top 5 or recent back injury reocur and damage his year as 2013? Can he replicate 2014 form?
5 – Will he ever beat Nada again? He is on a 5 match losmg streak now. And can he do it in a major?!

- Nadal
1 – How fit and how long will take him to get back to his former self?
2 – Will he win another major? Improve his own record for 11 straight year and can he win another major outside RG again?
3 – Will he win another RG for his tenth?
4 – Can he get back to #1?
5 – Judging by his last 3 years will he be bale to play all 4 majors or will he miss another major in 2015? In case of yes, which major?

I know Djiko is not part of Feda, wars but be can have the most impact on the questions above so relative to this devate

- Djkovic
1 – Will he win another major in 2015, which?
2 – Can he have another multiple major in a year winnning more than 1 or what happened in last 3 years continue?
3 – Will he win RG 2015?
4 – Will he continue to dominate #1, pass Nadal and get closer to top 5? Can he finish another year as number 1 surpassmg Nadal and 1 shy of Federer and Connors?
5 – How will rivalry with Nadal and Federef unfolds, can he beat Nadal in a major again? Will he still keep the rate of 2×1 as last years and revert both HxH?


jane Says:

interesting questions daniel; i know this is the fedal wars thread, but i’d be curious to know your questions/thoughts about some of the other top 10: stan, andy, grigor/milos/kei. and what about delpo? lots of possibilities/shifts could happen next year, with more break throughs – after all stan and cilic won slams this year – or order could be restored if nole and fed continue to play as well as they have at the end of this year, and if rafa and andy get back to their best shape and form. we could have the big 4 again. hmmm, hard to say.


Okiegal Says:

Of the four slams, which one would Roger want the worst? Likewise for Rafa and Novak? Just curious about some thoughts on the matter……


Hippy Chick Says:

Bob Lewis @5.24pm November 23rd i get what your saying,my point was more to do with Sampras rather than Roger,as Rafa has multiple GS on all surfaces,something which Sampras lacks….


Hippy Chick Says:

Okiegal Rafa has nought to prove at the FO, if he were to win it again then great but no big deal if he doesnt all gravy as Skeezer would say,so personally i would love to see him win another GS somewhere else,another AO would be fantastic for a second career GS,Roger and Andy i believe both would love another Wimbledon, Novak wants to win the FO,but i think thats more to do with completeing the career GS rather than the FO itself….


madmax Says:

Sean, you cannot say that Davis cup is better than Olympics. Why? Well, firstly no doubt in terms of Olympic Gold that Rafa tops Roger there. Davis cup is TEAM EFFORT. Meaning the rewards are shared. It is NOT an individual achievement. As Fed said, it is for the boys, the team, his country. Without Stan and Stan without Fed, they would not have won the Davis Cup.

Equally same goes for the Rafafans who argue that Rafa has won Davis Cup. No. Rafa AND his team mates have won Davis Cup. Can’t be argued.

Rafa tops Roger with the Olympic Gold, individual, Roger and Stan top Rafa with the Olympic Doubles Gold AND Roger with the Silver. And we could go on and on couldn’t we?


Okiegal Says:

@Chick, you are right about Rafa…..I figure too that he would prefer another career GS and dang it, I just knew he was gonna win AO this year, but denied…..I think Roger would like another FO….just because and Novak a FO for sure. If Rafa should get number 10, well, all I could say is WOW! Of course that run will end at some point, they always do! I’m looking forward to 2015 to see what unfolds. We all hope for healthy players….DelPo should be back, hope Rafa, Andy and Rogers ailing backs are better…yeah, looking 4ward to the coming year!! Have a good week, Chick!


Felipe Says:

Federer is head and shoulders above Nadal acomplishment wise, and that is a fact:

Federer: 302 Weeks n°1; 237 Consecutive Weeks n°1; 5 Year end Number 1; 82 Titles; 17 Slams; 6 WTF; 23 M1000;

Nadal: 141 Weeks n°1; 56 Consecutive Weeks n°1; 3 Year end Number 1; 64 Titles; 14 Slams; O WTF; 27 M1000.

Feel free to think that head to head and the Olimpic gold in singles are meaningful stats, but in my book, the above stats define greatness, and till today, they are not even close.


Giles Says:

Hey Felipe. Why can’t he beat Nadal then??
23-10


Giles Says:

https://mobile.twitter.com/pauferragut/status/536842214476095489
Good luck Champ! Hope your Tennis Academy turns out to be a roaring success’!
Vamos!


Giles Says:

Tennis X. Maybe you can open a thread on Rafa’s Tennis Academy?


Felipe Says:

And with respect to Davis cup and the myth that Nadal has 4, let me remind you that in 2008, Nadal did not played the final in Argentina, that in 2011, he did not traveled to USA to play the most difficult tie, in which David Ferrer and Feliciano carried the team by beating Fish and Roddick in Texas, that in 2009 he did not played the quarters against Germany and the Semis against Israel.


Giles Says:

https://mobile.twitter.com/pauferragut/status/536847560175276033
Hundreds of people at the launch ceremony of Rafa’s Academy.


Hippy Chick Says:

I dont pay much attention to H2Hs,but the Olympic gold medal is a significant achievement,as its for your country Rafa has one Murray has one,and Roger has one in doubles, or are we now not counting Rogers Gold medal because its in doubles,if its so meaningless then why even bother with the Olympics??i repeat its simply because its a high accolade for your country,and it only comes around every four years,thankgoodness for Michael,Tennis Vagabond and Madmax who are Federer fans that dont see the need to belittle another player,to prop up Rogers achievements….


Hippy Chick Says:

Giles thanks for the links,and i agree about having a thread about this,will it been in the interest of the future of the game….


Hippy Chick Says:

Roger is arguably the greatest player there is or is ever likely to be,but that doesnt make Rafas career one of the total failure that some make it out to be….


skeezer Says:

“Hey Felipe. Why can’t he beat Nadal then??”
Why, does he have to?
No.
Tennis is not a H2H competition, even though that is the only stat you want to dignify.
BTW, Is this a Fedal thread, or a Rafa Academy woo hoo thread?


Giles Says:

HC. Nobody said neither would they dare say that Rafa’s career is one of total failure. What do you think all these Fedal wars are all about? Rafa is the threat they fear hence all the childish bickering and vague attempts to undermine his career. They won’t succeed, try as they may!
Can you not read and understand all the jealous comments especially from skeezer?
Hey skeezer –
23-10


madmax Says:

Giles,

I think that the greatness of Federer is that he has never retired from a match. Never. I think that accomplishment is incredible and a bloody miracle actually!


Giles Says:

madmax. And then he goes and spoils it all by retiring from the final of the second most important tourney, WTF, after the slams. Tsk tsk!


Okiegal Says:

I will have to agree with madmax on this one. He has played this sport for years and all the practice it takes to remain on top, and never has any type of illness or injury, with the exception of mono, which is a nasty disease. I guess we can ask Sod how bad that stuff is. The back has troubled him some, but all in all he has pretty much stayed fit as a fiddle for the majority of his career, it is a miracle! That doesn’t happen with very many athletes. Yes, he has been blessed by having the best athletic genes I’ve ever seen in my life time! Maybe he is drinking lots of that good old Swiss cows milk…..the health books of yore used to tell us that you would have good bones if you drank lots of milk. Has he ever even had a sprained ankle? Every athlete has turned an ankle at one time or other. Yes, it’s got to be the milk in his diet. If he hates milk, then that blows that theory out of the water…..lol……He is one lucky dude that he has been able to play his sport year after year injury free. Having said that, he also knew the importance of managing the fitness of his body and not to overdo it…..which has aided him in having this long career and still playing great tennis at 33!! WOW!!!!


Brando GOAT Poster Says:

@Giles:

Thanks for that a most welcome bit of news regarding a great champion.

It’s amazing what he has done there giving back to the game that’s given him so much.

The most wonderful gift a player can give back to the sport:

Affording others the chance to enjoy a passion that he adores so much!

And Rafa’s done this great act:

Vamos Champ and I look forward to seeing on court hopefully in the very near future!


Okiegal Says:

@Giles…..just now looked at the links you posted, thanks for keeping us posted on Rafa and his Academy. I love the logo too……sharp!!


elina Says:

Sean says, “Nadal can score big GOAT points in January.”

I think I read last year that Sean was about ready to give the GOAT to Nadal had he won the Australian Open.

With an extra slam under his belt since that time, I wonder if he still feels that way should Nadal accomplish the double career slam.

Perhaps Fed’s new sparkly DC title has upped the ante.

For me, if I want to buy into this whole concept of GOAT, I am content to wait for these two greats to retire when their GOAT resumes are complete.

For now, I will stick to goat cheese.


Yin Nooy Says:

Two GOAT players – they have been running around together for over 10 years with many happy and memorable moments that both will remember for the rest of their lives, including their fans. Similar in character and although not close friends because of distance and place of residence, they are friends nevertheless when they are on tour and respect each other. I love Rafael Nadal and I respect Roger. Go GOAT players!!


Giles Says:

According to Rafa’s doctor, Dr Cotorro, he will be doing some physical workouts this week and play tennis next week.
Vamos Champ!


Okiegal Says:

@Giles……This is soon in my estimation, but doctors know best! I hope he gets things back in order, I would love for him to win the first slam of the year!

VAMOS!!


jane Says:

fun fact for nole’s fans which sort of pertains to fedal wars in the way daniel brough him in above:

“In 2014 Nole finished in the Top 3 for the eighth straight year.

He has already surpassed Nadal who ended the year in the Top 3 for seven consecutive years (2005 to 2011). Federer finished the year in the Top 3 for 10 consecutive years (2003 through 2012).”


Hippy Chick Says:

Jane Novak will surpass Rafa with weeks at number 1,which im cool with,nice that they all have different records of their own….


Hippy Chick Says:

Jane didnt Rafa finish in the top 3 in 2012,sorry am i missing something?….


Hippy Chick Says:

Yin Nooy lovely post,i wish there were more people like you ;-))….


Okiegal Says:

@Jane……Your guy might not have as many slams as R & R, but he’s the hottest thing on the market at the moment……and he’s not done by any means! He’s rockin’ it health wise and that’s a great position to be in…….#1 in the world and healthy as a
horse, that’s got to feel good!! Good luck to Novak for the coming year. I’m anxious for tennis to get down to the nitty gritty…….as in clay!! Lol
Good luck to all…..Roger,Stan, Andy, DelPo, David etc Ready for tennis 2015!!!


Okiegal Says:

I don’t worry about rankings that much. I’ve always thought Rafa plays better lower ranked. Being #1
is accompanied with lots of extra added pressure, imo.


Hippy Chick Says:

Okiegal no me neither,its nice to have,but hardly the be all and end all,this is Not to belittle Novak who has certainly earned the right to be at number 1,unlike the WTA who has had some very poor world number 1s,thankgoodness for Serena….


jane Says:

oh gosh you’re right hippy! i should never just believe what i read. :O thanks for pointing that out. it probably came from that land of misinformation: twitter. ;)


jane Says:

^ no!! i take that back :) nadal was number 4 at the end of 2012 but got back to number 1 in 2013. the writer who wrote that fact was referring to consecutive years in the top 3.


Bob Lewis Says:

I think it’s good having Nadal (and others like Djokovic) around to neutralize and get the better of Federer. It makes tennis more interesting. Otherwise Federer is walking around with 22 or more slams. I’m hoping Federer can come up with some solutions to get the better of Nadal. Playing more times at Wimbledon and the faster hard courts would be helpful. Being armed with Stan’s nuclear BH would be nice too :)


Hippy Chick Says:

Bob Lewis im hoping Murray has a turnaround in his rivalry with the big three,especially Novak as those two have met quite alot recently,which has become as one sided as the Serena/Maria one lately….


eelco Says:

GOAT discussions are meaningless. Numbers are meaningless. Nadal vs Federer 23-10

GS titles Federer vs Nadal 17-14

Take away their best titles (to get a more balanced picture):

Federer 17-7 (Wimbledon) vs Nadal 14-9 (French Open) = 10 vs 5

Masters titles Federer vs Nadal 23 vs 27

End of year Masters Federer vs Nadal 6-0

Etc. Etc. Seems to me that is simply is a question of:

1. Who is your favourite player?
2. Pick your stats.

I like Federer more than Nadal. But I also do believe that Federers best stats are more meaningfull The only really bad stat that Federer has is the h2h.

But: can anybody explain to me why (for example) a victory of Federer in the 2012 Wimbledon finals has any less significance just because Nadal did not show up? Or vice versa, why Nadal’s victory in the 2014 French Open should be considered less because he did not face Federer in the final?

17 vs 14, 6 vs 0, 10 vs 5. I feel that the difference at the moment is quite huge.


frank frankovich Says:

Roger has rafa 16 to 4 on surfaces other than clay case closed!


elina Says:

And 10-0 in matches that Roger won, an even stronger argument.


Giles Says:

Here’s a stat I was unaware of : only two men have done the Canada-Cincy double, Roddick and Nadal.


Hippy Chick Says:

Giles thats fantastic,A.Rod never did get much credit for his achievements in tennis,as for Rafa well it goes without saying how amazing his career has been,great IMO that so many players have the own individual achievements and success in the sport….


Okiegal Says:

It will probably take an accomplished tennis player to answer this question for me. I don’t want anyone to think I’m being a jerk but how is it that Rafa and Fed have met 33 times and Roger has only managed to beat him 10 times? What is it about Rafa’s game that troubles Fed? Does anyone have an answer? Not understanding the mechanics of the game I would like a little insight on this. I believe it’s a legit question……just curious…..I mean, he’s going down in history as being the best player of all
time and has only beat his biggest rival 10 times, a very lopsided stat. What does clay have to do with it? Shouldn’t a GOAT be able to fix the problem he has against his biggest rival? I’m not intending to be hateful about this just would like for someone that knows tennis tell me why??? Shouldn’t the head to head be reversed if he is the greatest of all time?? Don’t come down on me too hard please, it is not my intention to rub salt into the wound…….


Polo Says:

Okiegal, answer your question with what makes you happy the most. You are fishing for something you wish to hear. There is no need to pretend all innocent about your “curiosity”.


elina Says:

Ignore Polo’s cynicism okiegal.

Nadal’s high topspin forehand bounces too high for Roger’s single handed backhand.

Roger has to play too aggressively with lower margin tennis (his words) which eventually leads to unforced errors.

Other reasons too such as Nadal’s mental toughness but this is the biggest reason.


Okiegal Says:

@Polo I know you don’t know me from Adam, nor do I know you. You have no idea about me as a person……whether I’m a fraud or honest. I did hope I would get a response that could tell me this, in all honesty…..but I see I failed. Am I surprised??? Yes, I am because I put a lot of thought in my comment not to sound mean spirited or gloaty and really tried to be nice about the whole thing. I’m not fishing for anything other than an answer to a question asked out of sheer curiosity……nothing more nothing less! As usual, I’m sorry I brought it up……excuse please….acting all innocent about my curiosity…..yeah whatever……you just enjoy picking on me…..me thinks!!


jane Says:

i would add, too, that this rivalry may’ve gotten into roger’s head after a while, and the losses began to bother him and affect his play/concentration. on more than once occasion, roger has had the lead in a set but then he’s lost it. examples that come to mind are the 2008 final at monte carlo, or the roland garros 2011 final, where fed was up maybe 5-2 in set one and still lost it. i think he doubts, and then unravels. roger has had a tough time converting break points versus rafa too, but someone else could probably explain better why they think that is. interesting rivalry but definitely one of the most lopsided ones between all the big four rivalries.


Okiegal Says:

@Elian……I just now read your post and I did get an answer. You obviously play tennis and thanks for responding…..appreciate it a bunch. I see what you are saying about the bounce off of the top spin….makes perfect sense. Like I said, don’t play but was curious why Rafa’s game troubles Roger. The one thing I do know about Rafa is his mental toughness….. I have the AO 2014 match between R/R recorded and I’m going to watch it tonight and pay closer attention to the finer points of the match….Thanks again!!


Okiegal Says:

@Elina and not Elian…..so sorry…..thought I’d proofed everything, obviously not!!

@Jane…..that’s a great response also, and I think you are probably right……just like Rafa was against Novak. He too had a mental block and made no bones about it. He made a comment in an interview once that Novak was in his head, “He knows it and I know it”! Anyway…….R/Rs h2h is lopsided, but Novak and Rafa are neck and neck…..go figure?? Not sure about Novak/Roger stat, I’ve heard but can’t remember off hand. Enjoyed your read, Jane and thanks for the feedback!


Hippy Chick Says:

Im a Rafa fan,but i have to admit,i would prefer it to be the other way around,and Rafa have Rogers 17 GS,and Roger with the positive H2H,but life aint like that….


Hippy Chick Says:

As for the Rafa/Novak rivalry well its 50/50,either can beat the other on any given day,they are momentum players that are both deadly when confident,i give Novak the slight edge when facing Roger if hes at his best he will win,the Murray/Djokovic rivalry is dismal its become so one sided ATM….


jane Says:

murray/rafa even is more one-sided. look at the french open semi; now that was dismal. at least nole/andy matches are usually very tense/close even if nole has come out the victor in their meetings this year.

the most lopsided of the “big four” h2hs seem to be fed/rafa and murray/rafa. nole has managed to make it closer with rafa in recent years, but for a long time he was behind too. agree with you that theirs seems to go on momentum.

with roger/nole it’s always 50-50. i honestly never know. roger/andy have a very even h2h, too, but andy’s typically fared better in their best of 3 matches and fed at the slams.


jane Says:

okie, you’re welcome. rivalries are fascinating to talk about. i don’t know enough about the technical end, but the history, the mental aspects (that seem to be the case, because again, we can’t really know) all make for interesting conversations.


Hippy Chick Says:

Jane the only reason that the Novak/Andy one sprang to mind was because they have met much more these past couple of years,however i agree on the Rafa/Andy finals,and clay aint Andys best surface anyway,Andy hasnt won a set against Novak in their last gazilion meetings since Wimbledon in 2013,its begining to feel like Serena and Maria well IMO….


madmax Says:

Giles Says:
madmax. And then he goes and spoils it all by retiring from the final of the second most important tourney, WTF, after the slams. Tsk tsk!

November 24th, 2014 at 2:07 pm

Giles, I only just picked up this comment. I must say, I do love it when you get things wrong.

There is a big difference between retiring and wihdrawing Giles. You don’t seem to know the difference. Check the rule book please.


jane Says:

hippy, just an fyi, andy took a set off nole at the us open in their match this year. their matches have been close.


Hippy Chick Says:

Jane i apologize about the USO then,and he also got a set of Rafa on clay this year,but it still doesnt change the fact that he hasnt gotten a win over either in a gazillion tries,and i repeat in thats its getting like the Serena/Maria rivalry,yes hes probably played them close,maybe winning or losing a set on a close TB, but i would prefer to see him win matches,tournies,GS titles,not pats on the back,friends,accolades,and endless hard luck stories,about how great and talented he is,yes im rather crankey and bitter about his rivalry with Novak especially,like i was about all the defeats Rafa suffered to Novak in 2011,Rafa has turned it around and he now matches up better with Novak,not saying he will always win obviously,so i will unfortunatly be exactly the same till Andy too get some wins over Novak and feel bitter about it,i will admit to not enjoying the rivalry at all anymore,but i enjoy tennis so i watch, and hope for the best,only to end up dissapointed,probably the reason i dont share your enthusiasm about them been on opposite sides of the draw,as i would rather not see them meet in a final,and see Andy picking up the RU trophy yet again sorry,excuse the long post but im just putting myself out there and been honest….


jane Says:

ha ha, hippy. you exaggerate a little no? it’s only 4 tries since andy beat nole. not a gazillion. nothing too drastic. by contrast maria hasn’t beat serena in 14 tries and for years!! andy’s 4 losses were all this year. andy also lost to fed 3 times this year. but as we know, he’s been coming back from surgery. i get that you’re not bitter about his losses to rafa because he’s your fav, but seriously; that’s the worst one for andy. he’s won only 5 matches in 20 tries!


Giles Says:

@maaaaadmax. Fed let his fans down big time who paid big bucks to watch him play! The stadium had a capacity crowd of 17,000 (?) who were deprived of a final! That’s the bottom line really. You can spin it any way you like, ok?
PS. FYI Rafa has never ever retired or withdrawn from a Final!! Just so you know!


skeezer Says:

^Lmao Fed let his fans down. He just won the DC for his country! Don’t try spinning Rafa issues with Fed. Rafa stands alone with that stuff.


Giles Says:

Comprehension skills in question AGAIN!! Reference was to WTF as you should have realised. Yes, fed let his fans down big time in London. Oh well, he had a “bad back” that recovered miraculously 3 days later!
Superman!!


Giles Says:

“He just won the DC for his country”. That’s right, at the expense of the London fans and of course the ATP who together lost big bucks ecause of his withdrawal. He didn’t really have a “bad back” did he? The word is “fatigue”.


Giles Says:

BTW he didn’t win the DC single-handedly, “cry baby” helped him out = team effort.


TennisAce Says:

straight out of the horses mouth.. this is going to fun to read now..

Aunt Toni’s new disclosure that Fed fans have said all along:

“With all the titles he has won, there is no doubt that Federer is the greatest,” said the elder Nadal.
“Rafael has won more titles than Novak Djokovic, but speaking merely about tennis and about the game, Rafa has to be considered slightly lower than Djokovic. The Serb is such a good player that he is as close as you can get to Roger Federer.”


Giles Says:

So nice to see happy fans!
Suddenly Uncle T has become the oracle. Lol


TennisAce Says:

Look.. Toni is a senile old man who has been caught coaching during matches.. it is shameful..

But the point is, even he is smarter than those here on the topic of “who is the greatest tennis player ever”

now, what does that say about those wont accept it.. jealous much??


Hippy Chick Says:

Jane @2.32am fair enough, but i think you missed my point in my earlier post,which in a nutshell as i said,is i dont share the same enthusiasm for a Murray/Djokovic match up sorry….


W J Fortner Says:

Rafa is the stud tennis player on clay-nuff said.. Samprass is the stud tennis player on grass.. Federer is the stud tennis player on all surfaces by being consistent and by no. of wins achieved.. Federer wins the GOAT debate by a mile .. NO CONTEST..

Top story: Federer, Djokovic Lead Heavily Favored European Team Laver Cup This Weekend