Roger Federer v Rafael Nadal In The Basel Final, Who’s The Pick?
by Sean Randall | October 31st, 2015, 2:44 pm
  • 259 Comments

While the year-end Chase for No. 1 and the Race for London both turned out to be duds, we do get a very nice late season treat (hopefully not trick) tomorrow in the Basel final as Roger Federer clashes with Rafael Nadal in the resumption of one of the great rivalries in all of sport.

Both guys aren’t what they used to be – no Roger isn’t what he once was nor is Rafa – but since they haven’t played in almost two years, we’ll take it and we’ll enjoy it.

Nadal leads 23-10 winning the last five most recently at the Australian Open semifinals last year. Federer hasn’t beaten Rafa since the 2012 Indian Wells semifinals.

In their 34th meeting – they first meet all the way back over 11 years ago in 2004 Miami when Nadal stunned the Swiss, and this is their first showdown in Switzerland – a lot has changed since their last meeting.

Nadal is no longer the dominant force that he once was. While he seems to be about as healthy as ever, his forehand isn’t as lethal, his serve has lost some pop and his court positioning remains an issue.

Federer has since added another pair of twins, gone to a bigger racquet and developed a new SABR shot which he used today.

So if it looks like Federer has grown and Nadal regressed, it’s true. The match, though, still boils down to Nadal’s forehand to the Federer backhand, and the Swiss’s aggressiveness.

Looking at this week, obviously Federer’s the pick here. He’s playing on his best surface, in his hometown where he’s now made 10 straight finals and he has to be the fresher, more confident of the two. And the indoor court should really help Roger especially with that troublesome Nadal forehand to the backhand routine.

Roger was pushed by David Goffin and Phil Kohlschreiber, but he blew out Jack Sock (a player with a similar game to Rafa) so he should be fit and ready.

“This is the first time we play each other in Switzerland,” said Federer. “It will be an amazing atmosphere tomorrow. This is a dream final for the fans and the tournament director.

“I’m very delighted. It’s a great feeling. You always hope at the beginning of the week that you will be part of the last two players there and have a chance to win the trophy again in your hometown. It’s nice to re-live that dream again this week.”

Nadal was pushed to three by Lukas Rosol, Grigor Dimitrov, Marin Cilic and today in his win over Gasquet should have gone three again but the Frenchman was unable to serve out the second when he had the chance. Therefore, I do wonder if Rafa might be feeling a little weary in the legs. He has played a lot of tennis – and some of it good tennis – this fall.

(Interesting that today Rafa played Baby Fed and Federer faced Baby Rafa Sock!)

“We’ve played a lot in important matches. This will be another special match against an amazing player,” Nadal said of Federer.

That said, this would be a huge confidence win for Nadal who lost to Novak Djokovic in Beijing and JW Tsonga in Shanghai. It’s something he really needs as he restores his place at the top – a big four win!

But Roger’s the choice here. Dimitrov should have beaten Nadal, Federer will now finish him off. It’s good to see Rafa playing decent again, but even at his best it would have been a big ask for Rafa to beat Roger indoors in Basel in Federer’s backyard.

The only question I have is will we see Federer do the SABR against Rafa?
The pick: Federer in two

Tennis Channel will have live coverage of the final at 8:30am ET.

SUNDAY BASEL SCHEDULE
CENTRE COURT start 12:00 noon
[3] J. Murray (GBR) / J. Peers (AUS) vs A. Peya (AUT) / B. Soares (BRA)

Not Before 2:30 pm
[1] R. Federer (SUI) vs [3] R. Nadal (ESP)


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Poll: Roger Federer v Rafael Nadal At Indian Wells Wednesday, Who’s The Pick?
Exhausted Rafael Nadal Withdraws From Basel
Rafael Nadal Out Of Basel Due To His Left Knee
Federer Seeks Sixth Basel Title Sunday Against Del Potro; Ferrer In Valencia Final

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259 Comments for Roger Federer v Rafael Nadal In The Basel Final, Who’s The Pick?

nits Says:

Pro federer post, not giving an iota of chance to nadal


Ben Pronin Says:

Federer will have to win fast if he wants to win. Nadal hasn’t been hitting the ball as well as he could be but he’s been biding his time in matches and taking the chances presented to him. All week he’s been on the ropes and has grinded out wins. He can do, as he has done tons of times before, the same to Federer. So Fed’s gotta win fast or he’ll lose in a long one.


RZ Says:

Sock is considered Baby Rafa?


jane Says:

i haven’t had a chance but to see only some of fed/goffin this week. rafa beat some decent players it looks like, in dimitrov and cilic.

this is a tough call: you’d think because it’s a home match, it’s a fairly quick indoor hard court, fed’s been the form player all season, that this is a chance for fed to finally get a win again over rafa.

BUT then you have the match up issues, rafa’s gaining confidence, his hunger and relative freshness, and suddenly the waters are less clear.

i know people call this a “great rivalry” as sean did again in this piece, but it hasn’t been a “great rivalry” for a lot of years (maybe even since as far back as 2009?). some of the matches have been downright brutal in recent times, “contrasting styles” aside.

let’s hope the mitigating circumstances this time make the match more even and we have a battle of old – a close and well contested final.


Travis Bickle Says:

Fedal is as relevant as Kardashians. It can happen now only at these small, unimportant tournaments…


Gregoire Gentil Says:

For the west coasters, Agnieska at 2:30am, Roger at 5:30am. Tough!!! Long night in perspective… I’m even not sure of the clock change – should be in the middle of the Aga match.


Dave Says:

It almost doesn’t seem to matter what form Federer is in these days and what form Nadal is in. It’s a mental issue for Federer and he hasn’t been able to overcome it. Because Nadal always wins in the mental matchup and contrasting styles match up, I don’t see Federer winning. I hope I am proved wrong tomorrow. Federer shows a fear against Nadal and at times it seems like he is in fear of losing to Rafa again instead of just accepting that he could lose and fully going for it and playing without fear. Regardless of their styles, if Federer can play without this fear inside of him that I have seen so many times against Rafa, he will win hands down.


elina Says:

Nadal’s drop in level and the indoor confines should level the playing field to allow Roger his 11th win in 1000 tries.

Federer in two is the pick.


RF Says:

Roger in 2 !


J-Kath Says:

I think both Fed and Natal will see this match as definitive (Fed. hopes he’ll establish his superiority: Nadal will want to prove he can still conquer OR be close enuf to prove he’s a breath away from where he was).

Fed. will go out blasting from the outset and Nadal will have to withstand the storm -but will be determined to display a very credible opposition….and maybe, be heartened enough to believe he can come thru next time (should he lose)…..

…..As Jane indicates, it is not quite the rivalry as it once was, but it is perceived to be and this gives it significance..


RZ Says:

The thing about this match is that Rafa has nothing to lose. He’s not had a good year by his standards (though still not a bad year). Indoor had been his weakest surface/season in past years. He owns Roger so he isn’t scared of losing the match (and if he loses, he still would have a 23-11 record over him).

Fed has much more to gain/lose with this match so there is more pressure on him. He’s in front of a home crowd at a tournament he’s won many times. He should be considered the better indoor court and in-form player. But it’ll be Rafa on the other side of the net and there’s a lot of history of “should’ve, could’ve” there. Fed will need to hold it together mentally to win.

Having said all that, I think Fed will win but I won’t be at all surprised if Rafa take the title.


skeezer Says:

Rafa has little or no chance. It will be almost impossible and extremely difficult. He will just be happy to be on the same court with a the great one and be a wanna be practice partner. Rafa has been winning “ugly” and has been mentally injured. But if by chance he should miraculously win by chance from this nearly impossible feat and always very difficult match, he will humbly say he was lucky even though he will most probably claim injury of some kind.
Now excuse me I need to go hurl.
Pick? Rafa all the way.


elina Says:

Nadal’s level to beat Roger in the 23 matches he has won has been much higher than it is today.

Nadal is 1-4 indoors with his lone win in 2013 when Nadal was at his best and Roger was at a career low with a bad back and a kiddie sized racquet.

Unfortunately, that is not the case at the moment.

Right now Roger is No. 2 and Nadal is No 6 or 7 whatever it is.

And there is a reason for that.

If Roger loses under these circumstances, it will be a massive surprise.

This one is all too easy to call.

So far Nadal has been playing mental minions that choke under the slightest pressure (I refer you to Gasket’s two double faults when serving for the second set as Exhibit A).

He won’t be able to rely on that against Roger.

Too many unforced errors (counted or not) will be Nadal’s undoing.

As is usually the case in the matchup, this is Nadal’s to lose. And he will. Between the ears.

Roger in two.


skeezer Says:

Not fooled. Rafa in 2.


Ben Pronin Says:

“kiddie sized racquet.”

No.

“it will be a massive surprise.”

No.


elina Says:

Correction to my earlier post, Roger is currently No. 3 in the world. Not No. 2.

Apologies to Andy who is of course No. 2.


Dave Says:

Federer is 3 in the world and Nadal is 5th in the world according to points earned this year so far. Federer hasn’t looked all the good this week. In fact he has looked nervous at times. The crowd being behind him hasn’t seemed to help much lately because he had a much bigger crowd behind him at the U.S. Open and we all know what happened there. This mental thing has gotten worse as time has gone on. Rafa is 23 and 10 against Federer, but is a more dominant 15 and 4 against him in the last 19. Rafa himself says that Federer always seems to bring out the best in him. Today Rafa showed in some points how he picked on the one handed back hand against Gasquet. Look at match point today. That was vintage Nadal. I will say this again, it’s a mental block for Federer against Nadal and can make all the difference in the world. Nadal in 3.


Dave Says:

Federer is 3 in the world and Nadal is 5th in the world according to points earned this year so far. Federer hasn’t looked all the good this week. In fact he has looked nervous at times. The crowd being behind him hasn’t seemed to help much lately because he had a much bigger crowd behind him at the U.S. Open and we all know what happened there. This mental thing has gotten worse as time has gone on. Rafa is 23 and 10 against Federer, but is a more dominant 15 and 4 against him in the last 19. Rafa himself says that Federer always seems to bring out the best in him. Today Rafa showed in some points how he picked on the one handed back hand against Gasquet. Look at match point today. That was vintage Nadal. I will say this again, it’s a mental block for Federer against Nadal and can make all the difference in the world. Nadal in 3.


elina Says:

Preach it Dave. You nailed it.

Shamooooon


jane Says:

^ but i thought you said fed in 2 elina; thus don’t you disagree with dave? or am i not picking up the sarcasm?

“He won’t be able to rely on that against Roger. [...]
Too many unforced errors (counted or not) will be Nadal’s undoing.”

i don’t know. i think i have seen fed choke leads against rafa a few times over the years, and fed had more errors than winners in the goffin match.

“but is a more dominant 15 and 4 against him in the last 19.”

exactly, which is why it’s no longer a “great rivalry” right?

—-

i still say this one is tough to call. i could see it going 3 tight sets, and i could see a more lopsided win … from either side!! i think i would feel more confident on a pick if i had seen more matches.

rz makes a good point about pressure – who has it and who doesnt in this match.


elina Says:

Haha jane, no, just a tribute to a devout fan of mine rotl lmao.


jane Says:

oh, okay. i gotcha. so still fed in 2 for you. :)


Chrisford1 Says:

Fedal doesn’t happen much anymore, so when it comes, and it happens where Federer has to be the favorite, lot of fan interest ensues.
That rivalry is looking to be the 3rd best since 2000, with the matchup of the two guys against Djokovic shaping up to be better career rivalries,


skeezer Says:

Hey you guys! Dave nailed it.


jalep Says:

Is that the Dave that was here before? I wonder…

He’s right on @ 4:07.


Dave Says:

This is the first time I have ever commented on this site. Thanks for the compliments.


elina Says:

You guys, Jason Goodall actually said before today’s match that Nadal had a slim chance of winning the title.

Unreal.

I mean sure I’m saying it but I’m just having a laugh. I think he has a 30-40%% chance but that’s more than a slim chance.


Ben Pronin Says:

“with the matchup of the two guys against Djokovic shaping up to be better career rivalries,”

I’d say the shapes are pretty well formed.


Wog Boy Says:

Since I have no dog in this fight I’ll be watching the match without pressure and hopefully enjoy it. I am just worried that we don’t end up with comple anti climax match, which is quite possible looking back in their matches.
My tip is Rafa and I’ll tell you why. I already said that Rafa was building his confidence and game nicely since he started Asian swing in Bangkok with Nole. I watched almost all his matches and the way he played it was obvious to me that Nadal team didn’t put priority on results but on his game. He is not panicking when he is game or set down and just keep grinding his oponents and sticking to wath he and his team were trying to improve (change) in his game (plan). Look at him in all of his matches in Basel, he is set down and the break down but you can’t see any changes on his game or expression on his face, he just keep puting extra pressure (extra ball) on his opponents knowing that soon or later they will crack and he immediately takes control for the match. I know that all of his oponents choked in Basel;) but you have to make them choke, no?
As for Roger, he just doesn’t look fresh in Basel, not at all. The reason could be that he actually hasn’t played proper tournament since USO, just one match in Shanghai, he played a lot this year and such a long brake in competitive matches at his ages can have negative effects, he needs more when he is 34 years old to get into the matches and finds his range. The man that usually doesn’t sweat starts sweating after first game in the match and his neck becomes red like a lobster, thats what happens when you are 34 years old and don’t play competitive tenis in a few months.
Rafa in three, possibly two with anticlimax match.


Wog Boy Says:

^^ disregard spelling and othe mistakes, please.


Markus Says:

Federer vs Nadal. Same old, same old. It does not matter what form Federer is in, put Nadal in front of him and he shakes. Federer will be Nadal’s reset button.


Dave Says:

I totally agree with you. I am impartial in this battle as well. The only match that I thought Rafa could have lost was the Rosol match. I have watched most of his matches this year as well. It almost seems like he is toying with the opponents. He doesn’t panic at all when he goes a break down in any set and like the old Rafa, you expect him to break back and that’s what he has been doing. Rafa actually has the second best results since the U.S. open of the top players. Federer is having a bit of a post U.S. Open drop off. I know this next statement might seem a bit bold. But having seen Almost every Federer vs Nadal match, I can’t possibly see Federer beating Nadal in a major again unless Rafa gets injured during the match. Best out of 3 is the only chance for Federer to beat Nadal. Nadal is so far in Federer’s head especially in majors. Federer looks like a broken man inside that has no answers. Watching there most recent major encounters and it became more and more obvious everytime they played each other. As someone who has watched tennis for a long time, you always hope that both players play at their best with no fear and no mental issues. It makes for a better tennis match. I hoped at some point Federer would overcome these mental issues against Nadal, but to be honest, they are showing up against Djokovic in the past few years more and more as well. And Federer’s game matches up better against Djokovic than it does Nadal. Neither Federer or Nadal are my favorite players so I am just looking at it the way I see it. It’s just what I have been observing over the years.


nits Says:

It’s fedal war again living it


Humble Rafa Says:

It’s all about match ups. Still no backhand after all these years. This is going to be a good one for the Humble soul.


Humble Rafa Says:

If you are faint hearted, I recommend you call the ambulance beforehand, just in case.


jatin Says:

I don’t know how to predict the outcome of this match.
On one side, you have Roger Federer “the Swiss mastero” who has changed his game, his racket, his tactics and his attitude on court since they last meet. And on the other, you have Rafa “the spanish Bull” who has always been Roger’s kryptonite.

I still remember, roger was coming with sky high confidence by beating the likes of davydenko,raonic, tomic and andy murray when he faced rafa in the semi finals of the Australian open 2014. Everybody was talking about his new found confidence, his new racket and how sharped he looked. But there was this other guy who didn’t played that good whole tournament, only to lift his game to new heights against him. Aside from the first set tie breaker, it was all Rafa, one of the best grandslam match he has ever played.

Fast forward almost 2 years. The situation has changed now.
Rafa is not That rafa anymore and roger is not that roger anymore.
Lets examine the things which are in favor of roger.
1) Indoors -> His biggest advantage, he is 4-1 against rafa in these type of courts.
2) New Racket -> Well its old news now but roger has only played once against rafa with his new stick and he is used to it now unlike the last time.

Surprise Tactic -> SABR … Sneak attack by roger.
He used this tactic excellently against novak in cincinatti finals and defeated him quite comfortably there. He Used it again in the 2nd set on USO against him to shift the momentum in his favor for a while.

Things which are in favor of rafa.
1) His opponent -> It may be surprising but whenever he sees roger at the other side of the net, he smells blood.
2) Mental Edge -> He has a huge mental edge over Roger and even if he is down he knows he could make a comeback.

Surprise tactic -> Huge topspins on roger’s forehand to keep him guessing. (Executed it well in his lone win against roger in Indoors)

When you ignore all these things and just look at the current form of the players and how they fared this year, then the prediction becomes easy.
Its Fed in 2 sets.

But one thing is sure, Fed will definitely comes out with his all out attacking plan like he did in Indian wells 2012. Hope he executes it well. Would love to see him win again.


FedExpress Says:

rafa in three


RF Says:

I repeat: Roger in 2 !


Margot Says:

@Wog Boy
Sorry :( The AMs were simply awesome as the yankees say.
@TB 3.33pm
Made me laugh. V. brave putting your head above the parapet like that.
Oh my. Ground hog day.


Margot Says:

@Wog Boy
“AMs”!!!! Dear God, who’ve I got on my brain!
ABs I should say, but expect you got my drift.


Wog Boy Says:

Margot,

Thanks, but they are just too good, I thought Aussies had a chance after that second half come back (17 : 21), but Kiwis went another gear up and Aussies had no more gears left, they gave their best shot but trans tasman rivals are just on another level.

AM? I think I know who was on your mind:)


Wog Boy Says:

“but even at his best it would have been a big ask for Rafa to beat Roger indoors in Basel in Federer’s backyard.”

Well, he can always ask Nole and Delpo for a tip, they beat Roger in three Basel finals, combined.


Michael Says:

Rafa in three !!


Vinod Says:

Roger in 2 !!!


madmax Says:

Dave Says:
It almost doesn’t seem to matter what form Federer is in these days and what form Nadal is in. It’s a mental issue for Federer and he hasn’t been able to overcome it. Because Nadal always wins in the mental matchup and contrasting styles match up, I don’t see Federer winning. I hope I am proved wrong tomorrow. Federer shows a fear against Nadal and at times it seems like he is in fear of losing to Rafa again instead of just accepting that he could lose and fully going for it and playing without fear. Regardless of their styles, if Federer can play without this fear inside of him that I have seen so many times against Rafa, he will win hands down.

October 31st, 2015 at 4:07 pm


madmax Says:

Dave,

You show surprising insight – first time on this site? Are you not the “old” Dave who used to post here?

I think Roger should give this to Rafa.

Help him re-establish himself on the “come back trail!”. :)


madmax Says:

Federer in 3.

But I’m edgy.


Mastan Reddy Says:

Vamos… RAFA!! Its Spaniard in 2…

I agree with Jatin’s Analysis, though I cant agree with him on Fed’s winning :-)


senorita Says:

Sock has a similar game to Rafa, Lol. You heard it here first.

Forget how many times Rafa has dropped his serve in Basel or how imperious Federer has looked; this is a whole different ball game. Federer has gone through draws not dropping a set before until he comes up against his road block who is Rafa Nadal and he doesn’t look as imperious anymore.

I think the emphasis put on court surface is overdone. OK, this may be Federer’s best surface and Rafa’s worst, but that’s only by degrees, it doesn’t guarantee the outcome by any means.


senorita Says:

Sean selectively didn’t mention the fact that Rafa beat Roger in their last indoor match at the WTF in 2013. Why let the facts get in the way of a good story?

Sock is knackered, playing doubles and singles in every tournament; he nearly lost to Young so was there for the taking by Federer. Rafa had a tough
draw seeing off 3 big hitters.


Shaun Says:

I tend to agree with the author. Fall season and indoor fast hard court, make Federer the favorite.

But Federer too is not at his best in Basel this year. Fingers crossed.


madmax Says:

senorita,

You are right.

It’s all about mindset and mental approach…

Roger can try all he wants against rafa, right? Everyone still gives rafa the edge, and why shouldn’t they?


Okiegal Says:

I wonder why Rafa is electing to serve when he wins the toss? This is a change of pace for him. The crowd is getting fired up early…during warm-up anyway.


Okiegal Says:

The two sharpest dressers on the circuit…..I’ll have to say! Nike is the bomb and these guys rock it!


Daniel Says:

Wow, what a gam by Fed to break, BH crosscoirt winner and FH DTL winner. Nadal too many second serves in that game as well


nits Says:

Nadal gets broken


Daniel Says:

30-30 Fed serving. Time to consolidate the break.


Daniel Says:

Wow, what a shot to save BP, Nadal retunr landed in by a hair deep and Fed was on the run. Nice.
Adv Fed and he does it, 4-2. With seen Rafa come
Back before so I hope Fed gets an inssurance break and build on this momentum


Daniel Says:

Perfect BH volley below the net. Amazing stuff


Daniel Says:

0-40. Triple set point Roger


Daniel Says:

And he breaks to love. See, everybody broke Nadal’s serve at least 2 times this week. Fed already with two breaks and start serving second set. hope he doesn’t lose intensity


Okiegal Says:

Not a question who will win this…..indoor hard Rafa’s worst sur-frace….but I can hope for a miracle…….


Okiegal Says:

Getting the first set, Roger can now be more relaxed than ever….another plus for him.


Okiegal Says:

Being a set down will not deter Rafa…..He will dig in but will it be enough today? The Basel crowd is doing their job…..


Daniel Says:

Nadal with MTO to band his right knee again. Hope is nothing serious for his future. Last thing he needa is his knees flaring up again.
2-1 Roger.


Daniel Says:

3-2 Fed with two straight aces to close the game. He had a few chances in Nadal’s serve games second set but made some mistakes. Time to clean his return game and go for it. The sooner he break the best for him as late in the set one bad game can cost a set and put Nadal back in the match, just like he likes it😜


Daniel Says:

C’mon Fed. Good game to break, had BP. Nadal holding his own, 3-3.

Hold tour own to Federer and make it 4-3. Start losing the point after a great return from Nadal


Daniel Says:

At least Fed is having a lot of free points on serve, fast courrs and Nadal’s return is not that effective with some short balls.


FedExpress Says:

Hi guys. couldnt watch anytthing so far. was changing tyres with my dad.

looking for fed i suppose. how is it going?


Dave Says:

Federer is taking a page out of the Djokovic book today. He is picking on Rafa’s forehand to open up the court or cause errors and it’s really been working. The second set is huge. Rafa wants back in the match so badly, will Federer let him back in? We will have to see.


Daniel Says:

4-4, another game Fed could force deuce, hope he holda his own, crucial time of the set


FedExpress Says:

as soon as i start watching thr match fed making silly mistakes


Daniel Says:

Wow, FH DTL on the run signature Nadal, 0-15


FedExpress Says:

will the missed chances bite fed in the end?


Daniel Says:

Fed serve is imperiois today Fedexpress. He had a BP second set but Nadal served great, a few games went 30-30 on Nadal serve but Fed couldn’t make it.
5-4 him and now time for him to not misse and break. He is winnijg more points on Nadal first serve than second, oddily


Daniel Says:

5-5, Nadal playing better this last few games


FedExpress Says:

what a miss


Daniel Says:

Nadal not making any mistakes anymore and more solid at the back of the court getting BH errors from Fed. 30-30. C’mojnFed make it 6 to at least guarantee tiebreak


FedExpress Says:

BP nadal. shiit


Daniel Says:

Silly mistka by Fed going for too much. bp


FedExpress Says:

break nadal


Daniel Says:

Thought Fed would win on two, now seems Nadal will grow, force a third and most likelly wik in 3. Fed start making too many BH errors this set which he was not making.


Daniel Says:

FE, it’s your fault, everything was going fine until you show up. Kkkk


FedExpress Says:

just like the cincy match 2013

disgusting


Markus Says:

There’s the GOAT choking again against Nadal. Whoever thought this match would be any different from the usual?


Daniel Says:

Nadal sensed Fed was not killing the match the point he won at 4-5 0-15 gave him the belief. Fed needs to hold now and compose himaelf. Also he lost last game by love which wasn’t happening all match.


jalep Says:

Only watching the score. So far it’s not much different than Rosol and Cilic matches.
Rafa let it unfold the 1st set, remained calm and let’s the match come to him. Dimitrov was easier 1st set (but) Dimi got the 2nd set, no worry, Rafa still won in 3.


FedExpress Says:

disgusting moonballing from rafa


Daniel Says:

Game Federer, now let’s see if he relax and resume playing the way he was and pressure Nadal more.


Daniel Says:

BH driving that was opening the courr for a short ball is not working anymore and he is missing a lot. Again, his BH breaking down. Even silly volleys he is missing now which he was flawless.


Daniel Says:

2 straight 40-0 game by Nadal and Fed was broken and than 30-30. Maybe is time for him do a Nadal on Nadal, win close games and wait for a drop😜


FedExpress Says:

why federer why?

all my favs losing this weekend. and they were 5


Daniel Says:

Great 40-0 qyick hold by Fed, 2-1


FedExpress Says:

come on fed


FedExpress Says:

this moonballing from rafa to feds BH is disgusting


FedExpress Says:

BP fed come on take it


FedExpress Says:

ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

vuckkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk


Daniel Says:

Unfuck$$believable that he made this passing shot BP dwon. Damm


FedExpress Says:

the point was so well constructed


FedExpress Says:

now see fed getting broken


Daniel Says:

That passing shot on BP, why didn’t he missed it?


jalep Says:

The question is can Federer hold it together in the 3rd set or will he let old insecurities take over.

@ Jatin 1:49. Really thoughtful post – enjoyed your point about Roger not getting to use his new stick – had not picked up on that.

One difference might be about putting emphasis on yearly form vs current form. Rafa would have been a better match-up for Federer earlier in the year…maybe. But I think in their case, looking at Rafa’s build-up this fall is a key point.

We’ll see, match isn’t quite over…


FedExpress Says:

he saw fed daniel, hence


Daniel Says:

That was the game to break, Nadal made 2 UE and a df


Okiegal Says:

The Basel crowd has the claps! :)


Daniel Says:

At least Fed is holding with authority now, 2 40-0 games. Let’s see if he can create more chances, second set he also had BP first and was broken latelly. Now sane thing.


FedExpress Says:

vs nadal fed forgets to think


Markus Says:

If it isn’t obvious yet to anyone, it should be after this match, Federer breaksdown mentally against Nadal. There is no cure for it.


Daniel Says:

Another BH error.


FedExpress Says:

remove the net. fed loves it


Okiegal Says:

I realize how tennis fans detest servebots…..but oh I how I wish Rafa could be one just once in awhile….I would love more free points on Rafa’s serve occasionally……


manish Says:

Roger is a great player but he has some mental issue when he plays nadal..he seems under lot of stress,probably fears losing to rafa…and so finds difficult to produce his best tennis.My pick is rafa in straight sets.


FedExpress Says:

fed is so close to brealk nadal more than nadal is but nadal needs only one bad game and its done


Daniel Says:

Still 3-3 3 nore holda by each, let’s see who breaks dwon first


Markus Says:

The closer it gets to the finish against Nadal, the more Federer succumbs to his fear of Nadal.


FedExpress Says:

wtf was that fed

15-30


Daniel Says:

Fed unluck in some shots now, he wrong footed Nadal and he was able to win the point even so


FedExpress Says:

clutch. now break him


Daniel Says:

4-3 Fed. Now let’s see of Nadal feels the pressure.


manish Says:

roger may need a bit of advice on mental strength before facing Nadal…i guess.Its not the game of nadal..its the attitude of Federer..which makes him loose against rafa


FedExpress Says:

cracking BH

0-30

this the chance (maybe last)


Okiegal Says:

Now they have the waves….


FedExpress Says:

i cant forget the 3rd set at the AO09 where fed had triple BPs and couldnt take any of them


FedExpress Says:

this is so predictable


Daniel Says:

30-30. This is it


FedExpress Says:

torture


Daniel Says:

0-30 and he is unable to break, nadal will break next and close 6-4,


Daniel Says:

BP, if Fed breaks serve for the macth, if Nadal saces Fed will collapse.


FedExpress Says:

BP fed


FedExpress Says:

Break fed

come on come on


FedExpress Says:

yes yses


Daniel Says:

Nadal felt the pressure, BH miss, Fed to serve for the match. Hope he gets some great serves in without drama


FedExpress Says:

0-15


FedExpress Says:

15-15


Okiegal Says:

Roger just won his how many is it Skeezer???


FedExpress Says:

30-30

oh man


Daniel Says:

2 more points, 30-30. C’moj Fed. Serve


FedExpress Says:

match ball fed


Daniel Says:

ACE!!!!


FedExpress Says:

oh no obverrule


FedExpress Says:

wtf

deuce


Markus Says:

For some reason, I’ve been enjoying watching Federer make this silly shot selections to keep losing advantage over Nadal.


Daniel Says:

Wtf on MP
nadal. Really?!


FedExpress Says:

oh yesssssssssssssssssssssssss


skeezer Says:

Fed won ugly today, not his best, and probably had an injury but is not the typical type to whine or complain about it. It was a miracle @34 he won against a player in his prime age. So glad Fed overcame his “mental injury” of playing Rafa and still managed it all in his grandpa years. Nearly impossible and always difficult.


Markus Says:

There it goes. All my angst so quickly resolved.


Daniel Says:

Yeah. That was tense!!😜


Okiegal Says:

Oooh…Roger said 2 ugly words…and on Sunday too..


FedExpress Says:

relief


Daniel Says:

There is a reason Nadal os titlest in HC for almost 2 years, there is always someone berter than him on HC. Can’t see him winning Paris or WTF agaisnt the field.

Hope Fed gets another chance In WTF to make it 12. The more he plays this Nadal on fast HC the better for him.


Okiegal Says:

88th title if his career….Skeezer the commentators just answered my question! Congrats to the Fed fans but I’m still very proud of Rafa, he’s had a better last half of the season than the norm. How many points does Rafa gain, if any?? Don’t know much about the point system and how it works.


RZ Says:

Thank goodness…Thought Fed was going to give that one away.


FedExpress Says:

@skeezer

injury? did i miss something?


RZ Says:

Now just 12 more to go to even out the rivalry


Okiegal Says:

Pomp and Circumstance being played at the awards ceremony. I haven’t heard that since my son’s graduation exercises. I love that musical piece. Very fitting for this occasion….


Daniel Says:

Nadal can’t beat Fed 6 straight times hehe. Their HXH still keeps the 2-1 advantage Nadal, 23-11. There was ond point it was 8-6 Nadal at the end of 2007, can change that now but if Fed can get more wins and avoid playing Nadal on clay he will have his chances. Nadal is still playing short, a few DF, and his serve is weak overall


Okiegal Says:

I think Rafa is pleased with his year end results. I mean,the first half wasn’t much…..so he shouldn’t be too disappointed.


jalep Says:

Congrats to Fedal fans: Wog Boy, Daniel ;)

Congrats to Federer fans!


Okiegal Says:

Great support, but today a little bit less, I understand….Rafa smiling. He is always so sweet and humble!


FedExpress Says:

how on earth ferrer has 5 titles


Dave Says:

Looking at the positives from this match, I loved how Federer caused so many errors to the Nadal forehand with the serve out wide. Federer anticapated where Nadal was going with his forehand at deuce in the last game. Yes Federer showed his nerves at times, but didn’t give up and kept fighting until the end. Even though Federer made some errors at the net, his improved net play has added a whole new dimension against Nadal that he can use in future matches. In my opinion Federer needed this win over Nadal way more than Nadal needed it just to prove to himself that he could beat Nadal again after 5 losses in a row. To me it doesn’t matter what surface it was on today. A win is a win and anything can happen on any given day. The better player won today. Simple as that.


jalep Says:

Thoughts about Rafa.

Being ultra sensitive to sensations in his knees on hc, especially, I’d think it’s a preventative measure, not dangerous; but it’s good he’s so cautious.

The main objective is AO. Basel title would have been an extra boost for Rafa but can’t imagine any of these fall tournaments are worth risking anything. What matches he does win — good for confidence and have really enjoyed watching Rafa lately. I know, strange as it is for me. A short-lived emotion, I should think?

AO he’ll go all out – 100% if he makes the final there, even if sensations aren’t exactly perfect.

Also guess is Rafa’s not going to get into a big battle with Novak or Andy for Paris indoors. Andy isn’t going for a big battle there either, so…

WTF should be the same approach as Rafa’s taken all fall but everything depends on sensations to body parts.


Okiegal Says:

Uncle Tony congratulating Mr Federer, nice gesture.

They are now playing Simply the Best, in honor of Rafa for the winning head to head against their guy……. Kidding, if course! Roger does have some catching up to do on that issue.


jane Says:

congrats to fed.
i missed it, as too early!
imagine if fed/rafa had met all those other times this season; was it three times that rafa lost the round before they could meet?
looks like rafa’s getting closer though. back to his best – or close?


Giles Says:

Dave. THIS IS INDOOR HC in case you hadn’t noticed. This match has no bearing on their future encounters. 😳


Margot Says:

I enjoyed that!
Congrats to Fed and fans. Played very enjoyable, great aggressive tennis.
Commies to Rafa fans. I thought he really upped his level as the match went and, considering he hasn’t been playing that well and this is his worst surface, lots for him and his fans to be cheerful about.


Margot Says:

And as a NB to what I just read from Dave, I thought Rafa served really smart today, lots of body serves and out to Fed’s backhand. Didn’t get any aces, as opposed to Fed’s 12, but got him lots of points.


jalep Says:

Wow, Sousa! Big win for him in Valencia over Bautista-Agut. Congrats, Sousa fans.


FedExpress Says:

guys, is there any replay from todays play on sky? i missed 1 1/2 set of the beginning


jane Says:

i read that fed used a lot of wide serving too, causing a lot of errors on rafa’s forehand side? given that i missed it, can’t comment. but it sounds like they both used their serving strategically based on your comment margot. rafa was using the body serve vs novak in china too.

jalep, i am happy for sousa! he can be fun to watch.


Gypsy Gal Says:

Only saw the 3rd set because of work,but pleased with the way Rafas played this week,as its not his best surface it was amazing he made the final,so winning the title wouldve been a bonus,i had no great expectatins and Roger had played the better tennis this week so it was richly deserved,i hope Rafa builds on this for the remainder of this year and the next….

Nothing more to add,other than big congrats to Federer and his fans Skeezer,Madamax Daniel etc,but especially Jatin,Rishi,Michael and Squirrel,it was lovely to see these two greats playing each other again in a final whatever the result….


Giles Says:

FedExpress. You can catch the replay at 6 pm UK time on Sky Sports 5


Okiegal Says:

@Jalep…..I noticed in yesterday’s match Rafa got out of sorts real quick when his knee caused him a problem. Even with the win he was still a little let down and not celebrating like he did the day before. He was apprehensive with his knee today too. I agree with you 100% about him being sensitive regarding his knee…..but there will be some that won’t see it that way….they’ll be like “what injury”?? lol


Okiegal Says:

@FedExpress……I have come across replays before just by accident. I’m thinking it was Sky. I know for sure espn3.com does but if you are in Europe that would be out for you. I googled live scores one day and found some old tennis matches.


Okiegal Says:

Fed X…..Giles beat me to the punch, knows for sure where you can watch it.


skeezer Says:

Fed played well in the beginning, thouroughly outplaying Rafa in the first.
2nd set Rafa and Fed got into longer rallies, and Fed started making many more errors. Lets face it, if its a slow topspin baseline game they play, Rafa is going to be tough to beat(Novak excluded).
3rd set was played decent on both sides, but what mattered today imo is Fed is more match tough lately than Rafa, which historically is not the case. Fed was steadier in the end with important needed shots. Rafa is almost there, just needs some more tight matches under his belt.
Rafa might be setting himself up to have his best fall/winter season ever.


Okiegal Says:

@Skeezer….A special congrats to you! I did laugh at your last comment……thanks for that….the kind of stuff on this forum I was referring to the other day on another thread….It takes more face muscles to frown than smile??? Not sure I believe the person who came up with that….but I choose to smile and find humor whenever I can. Have a good day in sunny California!!


FedExpress Says:

thanks giles


Okiegal Says:

@Skeezer……Your post at 11:47 I’m referring to..u slipped another one in…..slow typist!


madmax Says:

Markus,

It’s great to see you so chivalrous in defeat!

The match – Yup. I said 3 sets to Fed. But, I was edgy.

It was 3 sets.

I was edgy.

Fedexpress, you are sounding more like gannu when you watch Fed’s matches.

Well done to both players for making this as tense as ever.


Okiegal Says:

I think a lot of the difference today too was Roger getting free points on serve. Rafa just doesn’t do that very often. Once in a great while he might come up with 7 or 8 aces, but it’s rare


tennisfansince76 Says:

The most important match in their storied rivalry once and for all establishing fed’s goatness!


jatin Says:

What a great victory for fed. Rafa was playing amazing at the end of the second set and even the whole 3rd set, and that passing shot when he was down a break point in the decider was a “Typical Rafa” – a shot only he can produce. I was shaking the whole time during the 3rd set. Roger played with authority in clutch moments, especially that point when he was down 15-30 and rushed himself all the way to the net. It was a Daring move.
He hit a whopping 42 winners or something.
This match is again a prove that why this rivalry is just something to be cherished. I thoroughly enjoyed this nail bitter. :)

Sorry for rafa fans – Gypsy gal, okie, giles etc but your guy is BACK. It could very well be his best showing in indoor season this year, who knows.

And I am glad you enjoyed my post Jalep. His new stick definitely helped him tonight with very little shanks and was solid with his backhand.

Very happy today. This victory is special :)


the DA Says:

@ tennisfansince76 – huh? Last time I looked it’s still 24 -11 and 6 -4 in finals. Also, a match on Roger’s fav surface in his home town and he still needed 3 sets. I think you’re a little overexcited at his first win in the last 6 meetings.


jatin Says:

And yes, cheers to all fellow fed fans, especially madmax, skeezer, fed express (I hope you are happy today with this sweet victory)


Tom Says:

Glad to see the battle for #2 heating up. Too bad this rivalry is slanted with the 13-2 edge Rafa has on Feds because of clay. The other problem is almost 2 1/2 years of not playing each other? That too has skewed the numbers causing that gap. It’s the most misleading gap in a rivalry I’ve ever seen because of various circumstances. At least Djokovic-Nadal is where it should be (and Fed-Djokovic).


jane Says:

i am pretty sure tfs76 is being sarcastic? :)
i think it’s 23-11 for rafa. but not sure about the finals stat…


Giles Says:

TF76. Lol. Do you really believe your post?


Gypsy Gal Says:

Jatin thanks your man deserved it no questions or qualms about it,i dont know how much mileage there is left in this rivalry,but IMO they are still the big draw in tennis regardless of their rankings even if both are past their best,something Roger alluded to during the trophy presentation, seems Fedal can still produce some classic battles even now….


jatin Says:

Gypsy
Thanks a lot. Yeah, it was a really high quality match with both players serving over 70% and smacking a lot more winners than UE.
We can just cherish these times as they could probably be retired after 2-3 years, who knows. True LEGENDS.


Okiegal Says:

@Jatin, thanks for remembering Rafa fans with your condolences regarding Rafa’s loss. I’m really proud of him, his game is looking up imo!


jatin Says:

Its fine okiegal. I know you are a true rafa fan and yeah he has really lifted his game again.
How are you doing these days ?


Okiegal Says:

@jatin…Thanks for asking! I have good days and some not so good. It has rained at my home for a couple of days…..I was weepy those two days, just very gloomy for me. But the sun is out today and I feel a lot better. I didn’t go to church this morning, my sciatica is acting up in my hip, but it will get better…..I have faith!!!


jatin Says:

It will be Okie, it will be.. Just keep going and have faith.

Hope to see you soon again during paris masters. I wish you all the very best and hope you will have a lot more of these good days with some sort of sunshine.


jalep Says:

Couldn’t agree with you more, Tom @ 1:40 pm.

Overall career H2H is very deceptive in the case of Fedal. And it’s annoyingly used, as has weak era been, to slam RF. But h2h and conveniently timed weak era is all they got for quite some time now — those ‘objective’ and stalwart anti-feds. Gotta give them points for dogged persistence and creativity.

All this nonsense, years of sand box fighting and invention of arguments comes down mostly to how irritating media hype gets, plus, the problem of GOAT. Fans of other players and Anti-feds have had Roger = GOAT shoved at them constantly for over a decade. Yes, yes, Federer is great – the greatest for his fans; Rafa is greatest for his fans, ect…

TF76 – lol, having some fun, nothing more, I imagine ;)


Gypsy Gal Says:

Hi Jalep,did you see the final,or didnt you care to watch it just curious?….


tennisfansince76 Says:

@jalep yes indeed I believe that is what the young people of today refer to as trolling. I should have made it more subtle so as to stir things up some more. Actually the tennis-x breakdown said it best. Neither is what they used to be.nadal’s serve is much less effective than it used to be. He makes many more ue on routine groundies and he is much less able to generate ridiculous passing shot winners on the run. As for fed he still serves great but if you can make him move you can get him.


FedExpress Says:

hmm still waiting for the HL. sky sports 5 wanred to show it 1 hour ago but showing a football match instead


jane Says:

tom is right that the rivalry is skewed.

the novak/rafa rivalry was skewed, too, much like the fed/rafa rivalry, but only until around 2011 when novak started to turn things around.

rafa had numerous wins on clay, and indeed still leads 14-6 on clay, but novak was able to counterbalance that by leading 15-7 on hard courts.

by contrast, nadal leads fed on hard courts 9-7. that hurts their h2h almost as much as they clay lopsidedness.

i think it helped that vajda and novak came up with a strategy to beat rafa during the 2010 off season (vadja has talked about this) – open the court by using down-the-line shots to rafa’s backhand – very much like how toni/rafa came up with a strategy to beat fed in earlier years – go to the backhand with topspin.

if fed had adjusted his strategies and changed racquet sooner, i wonder if he may’ve been able to get more wins on hard court and perhaps even clay, thus evening up the rivalry moreso? it almost seems like he waited to long to switch the racquet, and also that edberg is his best coach in terms of employing strategy?

but fed fans could say more on that than i could.


jane Says:

also it doesnt help that during fed’s bad season of 2013, he and rafa played 4 times, but in 2015, rafa’s bad season, they have met only just once… so that helped rafa’s h2h but hindered fed’s chances to improve his side of things.


jalep Says:

Hi Gypsy. As you know, I’m solidly anti-fedal for years now due to being hammered with how I’m supposed to love it. Was awake at the time, not quite fully awake, but decided to follow the score — already in a very good mood after realizing that Agnieszka had won Singapore.

Followed Fedal score to the end of 2nd set, then tuned into Tennis Channel. Rafa seemed to be following a pattern. I thought he’d win, given Federer’s insecurities. Was completely fine with Rafa whatever, (except for a ton of crap likely coming with through interwebs). Rafa’s recent on court persona is appealing. It helps cut the cr@p and appreciate his greatness at this point.

You have reason to feel optimistic about Rafa’s 2016 being better than 2015 — that’s how I see it. His knees are always a worry but time has shown he’s become patient and wise — there’s no panic about managing those issues.


Gypsy Gal Says:

Jalep ive never cared much about H2Hs myself personally,thats why i dont talk about them very much,i look at matches in isolation,and although Rafas my favorite,i thought Roger played the better tennis over the week,thats why i thought he would win and he did,anyway win or lose im just enjoying seeing Rafa play with confidence been aggressive going for his shots again,whatever happens next i just want him to play like that,and we will see what happens….


Giles Says:

FedExpress. Try again at 10 pm UK time on SS 3


J-Kath Says:

As long as there is no “knees” problem there aint’t much left for Rafa to do to be his greatest self again.


the DA Says:

@Jane – well spotted with the finals mistake. It should have read 6-4 in HC finals. Significant nest pas?


jalep Says:

It’s nice to see Federer can overcome his mental and match-up issues vs Rafa on indoor hc in Basel, Gypsy. But it’s unreasonable to expect him to win that match-up in other times of the season. It’s still advantage Rafa.

jane is right, imo. Federer didn’t solve his issues, work specifically to win v Rafa at all times from the beginning, or update his equipment soon enough…guess Federer wasn’t reading the interwebs in the right places, why didn’t he consult with me? anyway…

Rafa’s going to keep priorities directed at winning GS’s – imo. Catching and passing Federer remains possible and Rafa doing all he can about sorting out what he needs to do vs Novak to make it happen. So, we shall see…

Everybody has an agenda and their side of the story. Whenever Federer gets a win over Rafa and Rafa over Federer there’s been 2 sides to the story – it’s not quite as simple as “Rafa owns Federer”

Tennis is not just about ATP and the top ten – I get bored with that. My interest is on young guns and possible dark-horse outliers when looking tournaments, mostly; except FO. I’ll save tally of records and GS count of the bless-ed Legends to others.


Chrisford1 Says:

Nadal will likely be known as the best clay courter ever, but only Djokovic has beaten him at all the big clay court events (3 Masters and Roland Garros). That is not saying that Djokovic is going to be remembered as well as a “clay court Legend” – but he is the only one Rafa and Uncle Toni have feared for many years at clay events. Going back to the Madrid epic semi of 2009.

Of the big 4, I guess only Roger and Djokovic show top ability on all surfaces, indoors and outdoors. Nadal was a clay player so talented he was good enough to win on most hardcourts and grass, though he remained mediocre indoors. Andy until this year basically sucked on clay.

Federer was in the Top 10 in the Open Era in winning percent on each surface, and in games played indoors and outdoors, until he dropped out of clay with his bad 2013 year. Federer is close to making it back into the Top 10 in clay winning %, though.
Djokovic is solidly in the Top 10 on all those measures now.

Roger and Nole make their case as the two best all-around players in the Open Era in terms of likelihood they will win anywhere they play.


Chrisford1 Says:

Good for Roger he has ended his 3 1/2 year drought against Rafa.


Humble Rafa Says:

It was a miracle @34 he won against a player in his prime age. So glad Fed overcame his “mental injury” of playing Rafa and still managed it all in his grandpa years. Nearly impossible and always difficult.

You don’t know my real age. It is 42.


Wog Boy Says:

Congrats to Roger fans, but congrats to Rafa fans too, your man is playing well, heading in right direction and not far from his best which will happen late January as Nadal team planned. I have no doubt in my mind that Rafa will keep practicing after WTF and won’t take any holiday until Abu Dhabi and Doha.

I haven’t seen match, it was too much of the ask after night before and rugby final that finished after sunrise, but I recorded the match. From what I read here it was good match and well deserved win by Roger. Somebody mentioned out wide serve by Roger, yes, Rafa was always vulnerable on out wide serves (and angled shots) due to his positioning when receiving serves or during the points, Gasquet tried that too day before, the thing is how often and consistent one can keep hitting them, you have to be really good in that business to be able to that and Roger is more than good, and Nole is not bad either. Rafa is now playing and trying to play closer to the line in order to neutralize those shots, it is not an overnight process, but he is almost there.


elina Says:

Nadal played better than expected. Bodes well for next year but e’s taking the long road if you ask me.

Roger? Undisputed indoor GOAT. He played a great match. Other than some unforced errors at critical moments, so did Nadal.

As I said, this result (other than being close) was really no surprise.

For those that picked against the heavy 3:1 favourite winner, better start working on that topspin and cut down reading. Or you can just ask me.

Congrats to the good fed fans here (you know who you are).


Wog Boy Says:

elina,

Can you give me a tip for Melbourne Cup (biggest horse race in Southern Hemisphere), which is tomorrow? I need to make some money and I need it fast:)


Markus Says:

Wow! How mightily Nadal has fallen. Even Federer beats him now.


Gypsy Gal Says:

^Or the winning lottery numbers^….


Gypsy Gal Says:

Sorry post for Elina,but for the record,i also thought Federer would win too,but it doesnt make me Nostadamus….


Gypsy Gal Says:

Nice to see Markus here again….


Bosque Says:

Undisputed indoor GOAT.

McEnroe says Hello!


elina Says:

GG agreed. Not exactly rocket science. I’ve been trying not to read and to be more presumptuous (if that’s even possible). Maybe that’s it.

WB haha!


Markus Says:

Hi, Gypsy Gal. Thank you. I thought there was no life after the US Open and then this happened. Nadal lost but he seems to be transitioning from hell. He has now moved up to purgatory but looks poised to glory in heaven next year. There’s a lot to look forward to next year.


Tennisfan Says:

It was so great to see Fedal play each other again! And a nice surprise that Fed won for once Lol. I’m glad Rafa is getting better though- it’s not as exciting when any of the big 4 are down.


jalep Says:

Right, elina. If there comes a time that you are here humbly posting and sounding shy to give your opinion, not your normal sassy/cheeky, that’s the time I’ll worry you are unwell. Don’t scare any of us, okay? :D


elina Says:

That’s cool jalep.

I hear Radiohead is back in the studio for their next release.

Look out next week. Nole is in the house.


jalep Says:

Yep, I’m looking out alright. Very happy Novak is in the house. The boss is back!


jane Says:

ha ha bosque… yeah you’re right. j-mac IS the undisputed indoor goat… :)

http://www.atpworldtour.com/en/performance-zone/win-loss-index/career/indoor/all/


jane Says:

it takes all kinds: those who are sassy and “assured of certain certainties” like elina; and those who sit on the fence and deliberate, like me. at least we’re self-aware. :D


Wog Boy Says:

“Undisputed indoor GOAT.”

It is good to know that my man has positive indoor H2H against “indoor GOAT”, 3:2 plus one WO.


jalep Says:

Speaking of scary, this does for me.

https://instagram.com/p/9GimeZohiO/?taken-by=andymurray

Fence sitting is strategic, not shy. You aren’t shy, jane.


skeezer Says:

GG,
Nailed it 6:39 post….ROFL!


skeezer Says:

Undisputed indoor GOAT?. Again, made up nonsense.
That is why there is none. What there is is the most complete winning player on ALL surfaces combined…that is what makes GOAT.


Daniel Says:

Nadal’s 3 titles this year were when he was top seed. Overtime there were seeded players better ranked than him he lost. Expect the pattern to continue in Paris and WTF. He probably will make a move on clay next year. AO with Djoko, Murray and even Wawa can’t see it happens well, his serve is too inconsistent this days, Fed won more points on his first serve than second.

Also the knee is concerning now, tow straight matches where he needed to bad it, hopes nothing serious and he can revere after London.Is him and anybody else laying exos this December?


Wog Boy Says:

“Indoor GOAT”,
I didn’t say that, I just copy/paste somebody else’s opinion, don’t shot the messenger, please:(


elina Says:

Just a matter of time WB.

Should they meet next week, Nole will most likely become the second player with a winning record vs fed with any significant number of matches played vs the so called GOAT.


Wog Boy Says:

Daniel,

I don’t who is “laying” exos this year, but I wouldn’t mind seeing likes of Sharapova, Pironkova, Hingis ..laying exos;)


Wog Boy Says:

^^ “I don’t know..” should say


skeezer Says:

WB,
I know full well who that was, not you, no worries.
By the way, give Nole a couple more years like 2015 and they’ll be a uncontested new one!


Angel Says:

I’m glad you clear that out Wog Boy. I was about to destroy you badly.


jane Says:

daniel, it’s interesting, though, that rafa has now made two of the last three finals playing higher seeded players; and this is on his less successful surface. it must suggest he’s rounding back into form, no?


elina Says:

If he wins the next two slams to hold all four, he already will be.


elina Says:

Jane, no doubt.


jane Says:

yes, i would agree skeezer, that all court prowess matters the most. although we do tend to acknowledge kings of surfaces/greatness on specific surfaces too. and fed is certainly “up there” with some of the best indoors.

wog boy, novak’s not doing too badly. :) novak and andy in the top 10 of indoor greats. but if you look at the likes of j-mac, connors, etc, they have so many more wins. i wonder if that’s partly because there were more indoor events back then? i am not sure…maybe someone else can enlighten us on that. plus, of course, career longevity.


Angel Says:

Elina when your boy wins 7 more slams then we could start talking about a different GOAT. Historically all the great player win 3 slams at the most after they turn 29 years old so I’d say your guy it’s running out of time. Good luck.


jane Says:

elina, yeah i am on board with you, jalep and wog boy on that one: i suspect rafa’s 2016 will be much more successful. providing the knees, etc, hold out.


jalep Says:

The negative side of longevity: some stat’s and h2h’s are bound to suffer vs younger players. Some records do improve over time. The positive: still getting good enough results to be in top five and keep die-hard fans happy.

There’s nothing for Federer or his fans to be ashamed about in losing his h2h lead to Novak. It’s a credit to Novak to catch up and pass Fedal.

flinging it around in the sand box = normal.


elina Says:

Hahaha Monfils winning seven slams would be something wouldn’t it?

I’d take one.

History schmistory.

The average age of Top 10 players has gone up by six years compared to 20 years ago.

What’s Serbian for goo goo g’joob, does anyone know?


elina Says:

Connors and McEnroe could all play at any tournaments they wanted, often different ones.

So they could run around playing all sorts of smaller indoor events paying appearance fees. Novak has to play mostly mandatory events against all the top players all of the time.

There were much fewer mandatory events.

That said, Novak and Roger are better indoor players. Today’s game is simply superior to the 70′s.


Wog Boy Says:

jane,

I am not sure if it was Ben Pronin (?) who once elaborated on those j-mac, connors etc records and saying that it was much more (indoor) tournaments in America in those times so they use to move from one to another tournament week in week out.


Bosque Says:

Nadal should tank Bercy to be ready and fight for the WTF the only major trophy missing in his career.
But he needs to fix his serve ASAP to have a chance against better players in this kind of surface like Djokovic and Federer. Toni needs help if he wants to improve his nephew’s game plan for 2016. A big change, indeed.


elina Says:

WB and against much lower ranked players on average compared to Nole and Fed.

Connors and Mac great players but apples and oranges compared to Fedole.

Nadal doesn’t “tank”. He said this week that he is using the rest of the year to be ready for Australia.


Wog Boy Says:

Yes elina, that was roughly what I read few years ago.
As for translation, I know the meaning but I can’t think of proper one in Serbian, I’ve never learned proper English but I managed to forget Serbian:(


elina Says:

Maybe John Lennon knew.


Okiegal Says:

@Bosque….
Agree, he needs to work on that serve…it’s killing him. His first serve percentage is lame!! Uncle T better come up with some new stuff…..maybe an extra head in the mix could come up with some new stuff!


jalep Says:

Nature and type of titles on offer per season and skipping or averaging format changes skew records over time. The longer the span of time being compared, the weaker the validity in general.[Further exceptions occur when smaller spans of time produce key factor changes, whereupon closer examination, numerous identifiable, clustered, changes have produced compromising effects]

Clever statisticians, given the assignment, will take liberties and defend their math but in fact, can’t make the compromised conclusion true, unless the reader wants to believe and agrees with their method and subtext. In other words, it’s a non-fact.

And yes, I have been drinking a little, it’s my days off, and completely made that up — PUI = posting under the influence.


Chrisford1 Says:

Bosque – “Nadal should tank Bercy to be ready and fight for the WTF the only major trophy missing in his career.”

Well, Bercy is a big event as well, one of the few Master’s 1000 events Nadal has never won. But like the WTF, it is indoors and on hardcourt. The two worst things for Rafa.


jane Says:

i liked it jalep ;)

“The average age of Top 10 players has gone up by six years compared to 20 years ago.”

elina, and i think this is so for many sports’ top players, not just tennis.

also agree about the competition and types of opponents; now they have to play certain events in which all the top seed have to be entered. it could be why novak’s record vs top tens is so great. but it’s also because his team chooses not to play many 500s and basically no 250s. they focus on peaking for the top point events: masters and slams. 68% of his titles are from those events. that’s a lot, higher than any other active players. now, this might change over time, as jalep – wisely posting under the influence – intimates. :)


Margot Says:

@jalep
As they say, there’s lies, damned lies and then there’s statistics.


Alexandra Says:

If people like it or not, Rafa will always get his chance when he plays Roger. That’s just the way it is. Much different rivalry than Fed/Djoker or Rafa/Djoker.
Rafa did quite well considering he played indoors, better than most people expected him too. It’s his worst surface and Fed’s best. Basel was a match Federer just had to win. His surface, his home. If he doesn’t win that, where is he going to win against Rafa?
I will really miss Fedal when all is said and not, not the fan wars though.


elina Says:

cf1, indoors yes, hard court just no.

He has two US Open titles and an Australian. Six finals in HC slams.

He’s 2-2 vs Novak in HC slams.

Nice try though.


Bob Lewis Says:

What if both Djokovic and Nadal pass Federer? Wouldn’t that be something? Djoker 20, Nadal 18, Federer 17.

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