Novak Djokovic And Andy Murray Will Battle For The Final Masters Event Of The Season In Paris
by Sean Randall | November 7th, 2015, 7:12 pm
  • 257 Comments

No major surprise, the top two players in the world, Novak Djokovic and Andy Murray, somewhat fittingly finish the 2015 Masters season battling for the last prize in the series Sunday in Paris.

The two arrive into the final in relative comfort.

Earlier today in the semifinals, Andy Murray outlasted David Ferrer 6-4, 6-3, in the opener. It wasn’t Murray’s best performance – he was broken in both sets – but he did just enough to beat up on Ferrer who at his age is still playing some great tennis.

“I do think I played some good tennis today,” said Murray. “I managed to shorten a lot of the points. There was some variety in there with the way the points finished, which was pleasing for me.”

Murray had never made the semifinals before and now after four really good wins he’s clearly in excellent form having now reached his fourth Masters final of the season.

“It’s been a good year,” Murray said. “I think most of the Masters events I played a pretty high level. There are a few matches I feel I could have done a bit better. But for the most part it’s been very good. This is a tournament I’ve struggled at in the past. It’s nice to come here, put a few good wins together, and I think a few very good performances, as well.”

But across the net Sunday will be his longtime rival Djokovic. The Serb’s set streak finally ended but his dominance continued.

After splitting sets against Stan Wawrinka, who was a little sluggish playing on short recovery, he crushed the Swiss in the finale 6-3, 3-6, 6-0 for his 21st straight victory. Only three players – Murray, Ivo Karlovic and Kevin Anderson – have won more than three games in a final set against Djokovic this year. That’s how tough he’s been at the end.

“Credit to Stan for playing a great second set and coming back, winning five games in a row,” said Djokovic who improves to 19-4 against Stan. “He was obviously serving more accurately, playing more powerfully from the baseline, getting more balls back and it worked for him. He played very well. But I still felt like I was hitting the ball well. You know, with this kind of feeling and approach, I got to the third set and played the best set of the tournament so far. Psychologically, it’s the most important part of the deciding set, any set – starting well, trying to make an early break (…) and make your opponent feel he’s under pressure.”

Afterward, Stan admitted to exhaustion having to finish off Rafael Nadal well past 1am last night when Djokovic was probably fast asleep.

“The beginning [of the third] was important,” said Wawrinka. “Unfortunately, he started to play well. I did a few mistakes, first three games, and then he started to relax and play too fast. I had no more energy to come back at 0-3. He started to play his best game when he played really fast and went for winners. Then it was really tough.”

Despite the losses, both Stan and Ferrer should be primed for strong showing at the ATP Finals.

So in the final, it’s Djokovic and Murray. It’s their 30th meeting with Djokovic enjoying the big edge 20-9. And Novak’s won 9 of the last 10 losing only in Canada.

“Should be an interesting match, that one. I think what he’s done this year has been exceptional,” Murray said. “I feel like this year I have pushed him close and beaten him once. But I think, two of the matches in Indian Wells and the last one in Shanghai from my side weren’t good. But apart from those I have been close. So it’s up to me to learn from the ones like the ones in Shanghai to make sure they aren’t as lopsided as that.”

The problem is this is a slow hardcourt which sets up well for Djokovic who won it the last two years, three times overall! So it’s a big advantage for Novak before you even factor in the head-to-head and their recent one-sided history.

Djokovic, though, is cautious.

“Never know what’s going to happen,” Djokovic said. “It’s always a special kind of challenge because we have a rivalry that goes back a long time. We played recently in Shanghai. I played one of my best matches against him. I’m sure he’s going to try and do something different. We push each other to the limit, and I don’t expect anything less than that.”

And I think it will go to the limit. But this has been Djokovic’s season; Murray will have his time in a few weeks in Belgium.
The pick: Djokovic in three

Tennis Channel has live coverage at 9am ET.

SUNDAY PARIS SCHEDULE
COURT CENTRAL start 12:15 pm
V. Pospisil (CAN) / J. Sock (USA) vs [2] I. Dodig (CRO) / M. Melo (BRA)

3:00 pm
[1] N. Djokovic (SRB) vs [2] A. Murray (GBR)


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257 Comments for Novak Djokovic And Andy Murray Will Battle For The Final Masters Event Of The Season In Paris

Ben Pronin Says:

“He started to play his best game when he played really fast and went for winners.” – Stan.

I wish Novak played like this more often. He was passive against Berdych and for long stretches against Wawrinka. It was like, once he lost the second set, the switch went on. He was getting by with some poor play this week and it finally caught up to him. Good way to respond, but Murray won’t be as tired as Wawrinka was.

It’ll be close, this time. These two Masters are mirroring IW-Miami a bit. Djokovic demolished Murray in the semis of IW and then they played a ridiculous final in Miami. Kinda expecting the same tomorrow, although the outcome is a little murkier especially since Murray does have a recent Masters win.

I hope Djokovic wins, but this court does Murray some favors, too.


James Says:

I don’t think Murray has much of a chance today against Djokovic.

Murray is highly overrated. In response to my post in the previous thread – no, there is no big 4″. Federer, Nadal and Djokovic all have double digit slams with triple digit weeks at No. 1. Murray has two slams and never been No. 1. And unlike 5 years now, he is 28 now, so time is not on his side, certainly not more than 1-2 years for peak level tennis. Murray has bad H2H against all the 3, on pretty much all surfaces – despite being 6 years younger than Fed and 1 year younger than Nadal. Even a 34 year Federer is a better player than him today.

Djokovic is playing at a whole different level. I can’t see anyone taking the No. 1 ranking from him in 2016. After that, its anyone’s guess. 2017 is likely to see Fed retiring, Nadal retiring or close to it at 31, and Djoke/Murray both past 30. I think that’s when someone new will break through. Just don’t know who.


jalep Says:

Maybe one of these guys, James.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHQEHE4vH38

Trying to keep my Formula One addicted Greek-American friend interested in tennis, I offered him that.


Pauly Says:

New breaking through ?
Who dimitrov ?
Theim ?
Raonic ?
Who there is no one !!!

Nadal will retire end of 2016 most likely aged 30
Federer will play till 2019 he’s body isn’t as broken as Nadal’s
Murray will play till 2020
Djokovic will play till 2021 chasing 18 majors which on current form he might well get
Wawrinka will play till 2018 he no spring chicken actually older than Nadal

The rest of them who cares they are not good enough


Pauly Says:

There was one very interesting post on Facebook recently saying Djokovic will be the greatest player ever the true GOAT
not Federer nor Nadal … But only if Djokovic ends up with more majors than Federer !
Well most would disagree considering Federer is widely regarded as the most gifted tennis player in the modern era but grand slams is what counts !
My opinion I believe Djokovic will have 17 majors by 2019
Nadal will have 15 majors end of career but retired by 2016
Federer won’t win another major unfortunately but that’s just my opinion
Murray might get a few more so will Wawrinka but who else will win slams ?
Hard to say ???


Tennisfan Says:

Well a lot of people don’t consider Federer the GOAT even though he has the most slams. The whole debate is subjective and people use whatever metrics they want.


Pauly Says:

Tennisfan

I agree everyone has their favourite player but if you look at the head to head records of all the top 4 clearly Murray is losing all H2H battles …. Federer Nadal Djokovic top 3 with only Federer & Nadal having poor H2H record against eachother ! Clearly Djokovic will overtake them both in H2H before his career ends which will be good for Djokovic fans
But my opinion is this always has been
Federer
Nadal
Djokovic
In that order


James Says:

Djokovic first needs to win the French to be in contention for GOAT. I believe he will do that soon.

I have a hard time seeing Fed win another slam – though if he doesn’t have to face Djokovic, he could. He needs the kind of luck Sampras had in 2002 USO when he won never having to face a top 5 player. But this era is different – never before have even 2, let alone 3 double digit slam winner played together. Fed has the big age disadvantage against the other two.

The limitations of Nadal’s game are finally showing, much as many predicted. If he cannot run at 100% speed for many hours, he suddenly becomes vulnerable since there is only so much so you can do with defense.

This has been Murray’s biggest problem – lack of offense. This is something Djokovic is already trying to fix by hiring Becker. I must stay it must sting Edberg – he used to lose to Becker quite a bit, now his student is losing to Becker’s student quite a bit.

I think Djoke has a better chance of reaching 18 slams than Nadal, even though Nadal is ahead right now. Djoke could also threaten Fed’s 302 weeks at No. 1, and 6 YEC titles. Nadal can’t threaten either of the two.

So if Djoke wins the French and a few more slams, he legitimately threatens Fed’s GOAT status – and Djoke WILL end up with a positive H2H against Nadal (and Fed – Murray of course is a pigeon for all three).

But father time is harsh – doesn’t spare anyone. Djoke is 28+ right now. Once he hits 30, even he will slow down, body won’t be that flexible, reflexes slow down just a touch – look at Nadal. Then what? Its no surprise that slam winners are rare above the age of 30, especially these days.


James Says:

Another point – after Agassi and Sampras broke through in the early 90s, it took a decade before another legendary player broke through and won a slam (Federer). In the 80s, many more such players broke through, starting with Lendl and Wilander in the early 80s and Edberg and Becker in the mid 80s.

After Federer, Nadal broke through a few years later, followed by Djokovic another couple of years later (I am going by first slam as the breakthrough year).

Since then, its been nothing – its been almost 8 years since Djoke won his first slam, and we don’t seem to have ANY young player who seems to be capable of joining that league.

I hope a new great player shows up soon – ain’t gonno be raonic, or dimitrov, or tomic, or anderson, or kyrios. Coric, Goffin? difficult. Nobody out there with the game (Dimitrov had it, but lacked the mind, and its too late even for him now).


Pauly Says:

James

Great point about Nadal running … If he can’t run like before he loses many matches . Watching younger version on Nadal compared to now it’s obvious he’s much slower !
But I still feel Nadal can win another French open next year if his game can get close to 2013 ?
Time will tell ?


James Says:

Ya, Nadal could still win another French. Again, if he doesn’t have to face Djokovic. In a best of 5 on clay, he still is the favorite against the rest of them.

This is how it starts. they lose more, lose to lesser players, matches are longer, lose more sets even in matches won. Those are clear signs of decline.

That’s why Djokovic is really at his prime right now – not only is he winning, he is performing even better in deciding sets, which are rare since he is winning most matches easily.

But time won’t spare him either.


montecarlo Says:

Nadal ain’t retiring by 2016. Mark my words. He will definitely play 2020 Olympics.


Pauly Says:

James
It won’t worry Nadal who he plays in Roland Garros if he can get back his top form … Djokovic won’t worry him he never has been able to beat him at Roland Garros until this year when Nadal was at 60% level !
In Paris hot weather Djokovic dusty clay is no match for Nadal at his best plus Djokovic is suspect to the humidity which worries him A lot …
Nadal has Djokovic ‘s measure in Paris if in good form ?

As for Nadal playing till 2020 great humour


Chrisford1 Says:

Some people will use only “Slamcount” as a metric, while I think, given tennis is a fast evolving game, that the ‘scoring’ of a player’s career will be more holistic.
“Slamcount” overlooks competition, overlooks Laver being banned for 6 years between his two Grand Slam seasons, Borg skipping the Australian Open almost all his career…Borg retiring at 26.

It overlooks Olympics, Davis Cup contributions, year end championships, weeks at the Top, Masters won, degree of dominance in a strong era, ELO, etc.

And if “Slamcount” is al that matters, how do you assess the careers of outstanding players that never won or only one, etc??

And the other thing, the insistence that no one can be Great unless they get all 4 Slams, is slightly absurd given how Borg, Mac, Connors, Sampras, Lendl never did so.


James Says:

Winning and being consistent year round is also important for being a great player. And if you are really so super skilled, you should be able to win slams on all surfaces. Why is that absurd as a criterion for greatness? Of course other things matter, but these matter too.

Sampras was a greater player than Agassi because he applied himself more during his prime years than Agassi did, who goofed off with Brooke shields for 2 years at his prime. Even though Agassi won all 4 slams and Sampras never even made a French final (just one semi if I remember correctly – Sampras had a miserable French open record of 24-13). So Sampras is still great. And greater than Agassi IMO. But not the greatest – and the miserable record at the French Open is a big reason for that.

Mcenroe, Connors and Lendl are not even in that conversation (of GREATEST, not of GREAT). Borg never could win a hard court slam. So even with 11 slams, its not the record of someone who could be greatest. And he never (or just once) made the effort to play the AO.

That’s why, even though I barely like Nadal’s game, I admire the effort he has put in, and admire his results – his 14 slams, I believe, are superior to Sampras’s 14 – because Nadal proved himself on every surface, in every slam. Why is that absurd?

Same way Nadal’s inability to win the YEC is a small question mark – again, if he is such a great player, why can’t he perform well on fast indoor courts? Having a game that can win on all surfaces is bloody damn important. But then you also have to prove it many many times to be considered greatest.

Federer has 5+ finals in every slam, max number of slams, 6 YEC (9 finals), 302 weeks at No. 1 – that pretty much seals it for now, unless Djokovic can better several of those numbers.


James Says:

It takes a lot of courage to lose close slam finals to a younger opponent but keep coming back. Borg won the French in 1981, then lost two close finals (Wimbledon and USO) to Mcenroe – and just quit! He was just 26, was obviously still pretty close to his top game and No. 2 in the world. He didn’t display the courage to regroup and come back. A lot of players play when the going is good. Few keep coming back when the going is not that good.

Fed has had some heartbreaking losses – So many key 5th set losses – Wimby 2008, AO 2009, USO 2009, Wimby 2014. Heck he has lost two slams finals to the same player this year. All losses have been to players 5-7 years younger, all losses happened once he was 27 or older. Yet he keeps fighting and coming back, even at 34. Why is that not another aspect of greatness (so a clear Plus to Federer on this one, and negative to Borg). So its not just about slams won.


Pauly Says:

James

Nadal is better than Sampras !
Sampras was a great server but never a truly all round player
No French not even reached a final in Paris !
Agassi had Sampras’s measure if only Sampras serve was slightly off … Serve Sampras one of the best of all time !


Viki Says:

I always wish if Nadal has better. If it has better serve then he can won many more slams but he never improved it.

From baseline, Nadal is always best closely followed by Djoko and Murray and it shows in their matches.

But now Djokov miles ahead of others because first he improves his serve then improves his serve and volley. Now he is also coming to net also if he is good position in rally but others are still at there old self.

Yesterday night, if djoko does not attack the net yesterday he will loose the match because from baseline he was losing.

Because of this improvement, i don’t think now Murray, Wawa or Nadal can beat him because he changed his game.


Viki Says:

Now want to tell why i think Djoko is able to improve himself in those areas.

Simple answer he has to beat Federer and he can’t do it on regular basis if he does not improve in above mentioned areas. Nadal does not improve this facet of his game because he was winning against Federer.

Also, if other person is coming to net then only two persons are there who can make great passing shots, those are nadal and djoko and that is also because of only person who does it now days is Federer and to beat him they have to be good in passing shots. One more great advantage for Djoko now is beside Nadal nobody else knows how to make great passing shots consistently.


Viki Says:

Because of this improvement of coming to net play and inability of other player to play passing shots when other player is at net. Djokovic is going to win against wawa and Murray. Anybody can observe it today in the match.
Murray will win baseline battle but because of serve and volley and coming to net Djokovic will win the match.


Viki Says:

And also he already improve his lob shot to handle federer at US open and in Paris open i am seeing he really making effort to improve his Drop shot. By seeing all this, i think he will be GOAT and win everything.


Margot Says:

Oh here we go. Another recruit to the “even Murray”
brigade on tennisx. Just what we need. Not.
Perhaps Andy should give back his 2 slams, Olympic gold and silver and 35 other titles. And his amazing stats which stand up over time.
I mean it’s soooo easy to achieve all that.
Jeez.


Pauly Says:

Viki

If Nadal had a serve like he did in 2010 US OPEN
Or he had a better serve all round … Nadal would’ve won 20 slams


mat4 Says:

John MacEnroe has won 18 slams. He’s the goat.

Rod Laver, sorry, has won 19 slams. He’s the goat. He has won more than 200 tournaments, btw. But Pancho Gonzalez has also won 19 slams. Laver leads in the H2H, but he was younger.

Even_Murray could be the goat if he wins


mat4 Says:

… 17 slams more before he retires…


Margot Says:

@mat4
Bored! Bored! Bored with GOAT.
Just wish people wouldn’t diss players in order to promote their favourite.
NOT talking about you BTW.


J-Kath Says:

Margo –

Run-off-at-the-mouth opinions presented as facts!!!!!,,,,…..Time for the Turd Wars to return, me thinks.


Wog Boy Says:

I think it is little bit premature to talk about Nole’s future slams and status. He is writing his own legacy atm, he can comfortably mix with the greatest of all time and be member of the top shelf of tennis history, future will bring what ever is meant to bring, this fan is happy with what Nole already achieved (against all odds) in the golden age of tennis. There is always chance for more as long as he is healthy and motivated, but the others are also playing good tennis and want to win too.


Viki Says:

Margot and Mat4,
When you improve so much and other player are not improving much then you really have great chance to achieve everything to become GOAT.

At present, Only federer is close to Djokovic who can compete him well if he improves his backhand which he can’t. Otherwise it can be improved as wawa single handed backhand improve.

For all other players, they need to learn lots of thing which will take time so he has good chance to win all.


Travis Bickle Says:

Watch for Murray doing his usual tricks today trying to disrupt Novak concentration on serve return!
Murray tosses the ball, Novak is fully concentrated and prepared to react to the incoming serve, then Murray lets the ball drop and starts over his service motion while mumbling “sorry” to Novak.
It could happen occasionally to everyone, but watch it when two of them play – it happens too frequently that it’s easy to conclude Murray is doing it on purpose. It is the tactic suggested by Lendl to Andy and it works to a certain degree – it disrupts Novak return and reveals which side he is leaning during the return…
Someone should review their previous matches and count how many times this “randomly” happened to Murray – I guess it is around 10 times per match – way too many times to be accidental.
However, good on Murray for finding a way to improve his chances against a superior opponent – the tactic, although rather cheap, is not punishable by the official rules…


Gypsy Gal Says:

Agree with Margot,too much GOAT talk already,boring….


Margot Says:

@Kath
Thank goodness you’re here! :)
@TB
Andy does that all the time. Did it aagainst Ferrer yesterday. Perhaps you don’t actually watch him play, except when he’s playing Nole?
Far from being a “cheap trick” it’s more a “nervous tic.” Much like prolonged ball bouncing, I suppose.


J-Kath Says:

@ Travis Bickle

I would buy an umbrella if I were you – but also good idea to have your eyes checked…the one-eye syndrome is operable these days.


Gypsy Gal Says:

Wogboy your always sensible when talking about your favorite,simply enjoying the here and the now,anything else is for the future quite right….


Gypsy Gal Says:

J-Kath/Margot its called selective memory loss….


Travis Bickle Says:

Margot,
Count how many time he does his “nervous tic” against Novak and compare with the count against others (e.g. Ferrer yesterday). You’ll be surprised by the difference.

On the other hand, prolonged ball bouncing is punishable by rules – simply if one bounces ball for more than 25 seconds, umpire calls a penalty – so that manifestation of nervousness is costly.

Murray’s “nervous tic” is effective against returner and doesn’t cost Murray a penalty. You’re free to disagree, and you are generally quite reasonable poster, but this time your fandom got in a way of objectivity… :-)


Gypsy Gal Says:

Viki its entirely your opinion,and everyone has a different one when it comes to that particular topic,although some of us dont give a rats wotsit either,and are merely happy with the notion of having a number of all time greats instead,each to their own i suppose….


Travis Bickle Says:

J-Kath/Gypsy Gal,

You talking’ to me?

Be careful what you wish for – you start being personal talking about my eyesight/memory, etc… I love that game – I really know how to be personal to posters like you – consider this a friendly reminder…


Gypsy Gal Says:

TB you dont scare me with your idol threats,this is the internet so i will simply scroll,others find you funny which is their call,the rest is for the moderators….


J-Kath Says:

TB – Still worried about your eyesight – just a friendly reminder – PS: Threats – my goodness…
Ciao


Gypsy Gal Says:

James i was curious to know if you were the same one that posted here before,but he was a Rafa fan,and you said you didnt care for Nadals game so i guess not?….


Giles Says:

“Watch for Murray doing his usual tricks today trying to disrupt Novak concentration on serve return”. LMAO.
Let’s talk about joker’s ” usual tricks” instead shall we?
1) Fake MTO’s
2) Oscar winning performances at feigning fatigue
3) Boisterous racquet smashing
4) Chatting with his box during a match
5) Hand signals from BB which btw has been admitted by BB
In short, he is a cheat.
Nufff said.
😡😡🙄🙄😣😣😨😱


James Says:

Gamesmanship is all over the place – Djokovic and especially Nadal slow down the points, take 30-45 seconds between serves, or take MTOs. Djokovic also used to bounce the ball too much – has reduced it now. that way Fed does the least – plays quickly, hardly takes breaks.

Djokovic is really improving his game in anticipation of decline with age – really smart. Fed started a bit late with racket change and net play. He wasted too much time with coaches like tony Roche and even Paul Annacone. He should have hired Edberg in 2011.

Murray improved SO MUCH under lendl – and now we can see where he is. Coaches matter.

Nadal hasn’t changed his game enough – if he doesn’t hire a proper coach and makes big changes, he will never get back to slam contention.

Federer needs even more net play to have any shot of winning wimbledon (not much chance in any other slam any way). Somehow, even if the courts and balls are now different, he has to realize he can’t keep up from the baseline for 5 sets. Maybe for 2, that’s it. He needs to just come to the net almost every single first and second serve and take the chance, and every chance he gets on return games. Right now, even when he is aggressive, he is at the net maybe for 30% of the points, of which he wins 60-70% (against the topmost players). He needs to double that – if he is at the net 60% of the points (For Sampras this number was higher than that) – and wins 60% of the points, even if he wins 40-45% of the remaining baseline points (which he does, since he is a top level baseliner anyway), he is done. Its a mindset issue – and Edberg has done a good job in getting him to the net 30/40/50 times in a match now.


Giles Says:

“If he doesn’t hire a proper coach”. ???? What the hell do you mean by that statement?? So what is a proper coach – perhaps you mean a CELEBRITY COACH eh?? Rafa has won FOURTEEN GS’s under the guidance of Toni Nadal. And now he needs a “proper coach”??? LMAO.


Margot Says:

@TB
You say “cheap trick.” I say “nervous tic(k).”
You say “tomayto.” I say “tomarto.”
Whatever
@viki
Of course re GOAT but surely at the mo. it is a fairly pointless and tedious exercise? Shouldn’t we wait till Raf/Rog/Nole have all retired and then just count the slams?
Simps.
Or too simps for some?


calmdownplease Says:

`The problem is this is a slow hardcourt which sets up well for Djokovic..`

But, but, but I thought it sets up well for Andy!
mmmm?
hehehe
Tedious thread this one, filled with Djokovic Bandwagon jumpers and various other ne’er do- -wells.
Was NOT surprised at all that Wawa didn’t have enough in the tank after Nadal.
Muzz should, however, so he will have a shot as long as he plays/serves very well (of course)
AO might NOW be fast enough for Wawrinka to blast Novak off the court, but on a slow court even if he had been fully rested, I think it was going to be a very tough ask.
The court is so slow which definitely favours Novak, but Andy is no slouch on them too.
IF he is aggressive, uses his lob game to deal with the Novak net rushes, & comes in himself as much as possible.
Also, variety and a constant change of pace.
It goes without saying that he needs his A Game to even have a shot here.
SO bored of Novak winning everything!
C’mon Andy, SAVE tennis from this rabble!


Gypsy Gal Says:

Margot GOAT is a tedious exercise,DAMN right….


Gypsy Gal Says:

Ive no issue what-so-ever,with players any players been called out for gamesmanship,but what does get really annoying is the double standards that go on around here….


madmax Says:

Did Roger get back to number 2 in the world rankings when he won the Basle title?

If he did, then we do not have the top two players playing in the final.

Hoping for a brilliant match. Think Andy will give it his all, but think that Novak will get this – again.


J-Kath Says:

@ CDP
Yes, we all have our reasons for wanting Andy to win today …some are fans; some looking for some excitement; none of these reasons are because we don’t like Nole…just looking for a bit of variety….and Nole can go back to his winning ways at WTF.

However, even if Andy brings an A+ game he will also need A+ determination and that’s the worrying bit – will he be able to completely forget the DC? Sadly, I doubt it.


calmdownplease Says:

`will he be able to completely forget the DC?’

Masters shmasters
Yes indeedy, the DC is the BIG one.
Only a slam would be better (or maybe a Gold Medal).
And mentally he really isn’t the most ‘present’ of the top players so, therefore, I would have to say…
NO.
No he won’t forget it, not at all.
But it’s sport, look at the heroics of Scotland during the RWC
Who was expecting that?
They should have made it to the finals really but for Joubert’s rather unfortunate decision.
Playing Novak Today might just be like playing the AB there.
Let’s hope, however unrealistically, that an upset is ON.
And it’s not THAT unrealistic.
;0)
As for not liking Novak, well, I must admit I have gone off him a bit.
But its his newer generation of fanbois I can’t stand.
Maybe that’s what has caused it.


James Says:

Slow courts don’t favor Murray (I don’t think any courts favor Murray) – If I recall, Murray have never won a clay title. If he was so good on slow courts, he should have done well on clay.

The problem is almost everything that Murray does, Djokovic does slightly better. Maybe if Murray is ripping his forehand (which is rare), he can trouble djoke with that. he (Murray) is good with strategy. But he goes through phases in every match where he becomes very passive and defensive – you can’t beat Djoke like that, not even Nadal can. The only way to beat Djoke is out and out offense – unless he is having an off day himself. Djoke is like a human backboard who is now developing good offensive weapons. Scary.

As I said earlier, Murray is more of an improved Ferrer, 6 inches taller with a clearly better serve.


calmdownplease Says:

There must not, however, be another meltdown from Andy, that is unacceptable and will be very problematic for 2016.
If Andy is going to make more of a mark it’s going to have to be soonish.


J-Kath Says:

Madmax

Andy is No.2 now …rankings on Monday reportedly will reveal.


calmdownplease Says:

`As I said earlier, Murray is more of an improved Ferrer, 6 inches taller with a clearly better serve.`

Well fortunately we can ignore your absurd posts going on after this gem.
A 6 inch taller Ferrer?
hehehe
Then Nadal is a 5inch taller version as is Djokovic for similar reasons,
In fact more so.

(W.h.a.t a dingbat!)

‘If I recall, Murray have never won a clay title. If he was so good on slow courts, he should have done well on clay.’

As is already apparent, you don’t know too much.
He beat Nadal in Madrid for a Masters 1000
It wasn’t that long ago to recall FFS!
But then, you are not exactly a master of your subject, are you?
These are opinions formed at quite the distance.
The speed of the courts is not the argument to use for why he can’t win on clay more often either.


J-Kath Says:

James

He has won a clay match (could actually be 2) – if you recall he nearly killed himself last year to qualify for WTF…as far as WTF goes he needn’t have bothered …but yes on Clay (can’t be bothered looking it up..but you will find I am correct).

Don’t agree with the comparison with wee Ferrer, but yes on your Nole section.


Gypsy Gal Says:

If its a well contested final ill watch,if not then ill put the football on instead Aston Villa v Manchester City….


James Says:

calmdownwhatever – no need to be so defensive and offensive. We are all commenting about players here, no need to get personal and hurl abuses. If you disagree with me that’s perfectly fine.


Gypsy Gal Says:

James i guess your not the same James then James?….


calmdownplease Says:

Stupidity and Ignorance are things I will not tolerate.
Smart opposing views I will, and with pleasure.
You need to up your game a bit when I’m around JAMES.
For verily, if you think that was abusive, you aint seen nothing yet.


mat4 Says:

We already had a few times the GOAT discussion. I thought that some points have been made quite clear so far: that the development of tennis itself, the different technological shifts, have heavily impacted the longevity of different champions.

Then, the importance of certain events has changed with time: the structure of tournaments, of the tour in general has been different in the eighties. The ATP world tour has found a certain stability from 1990 onward, while it was changing from year to year before.

I thought that the improvements in physical preparation, in nutrition, are also difficult to quantify.

So, when we get back to zero in this discussion, I really can’t understand it. I really thought we have gone through all the questions about greatness, and then I see that most of the things we have written before are completely forgotten.

Then, there is that confusion between “point of view” and “ignorance”. Only a fan that has watched Borg play, and has himself played with a wooden racquet — and a new modern racquet, with synthetic guts — can gauge how much the game has changed, and who is a more talented player. Who of the many posters know that players weren’t allowed to move their front leg when serving? 5% at most. But Borg learned to serve in those conditions. McEnroe, 4 years younger, learned to serve after a rule change. It influenced their respective games until the end of their careers.

So, enough. It just doesn’t make sense. I wrote about that JMac won 18 slams — which he did — and nobody mentions it. Laver won 31 slams, when one includes his results as a pro, and in doubles. If we only count slams — why not in doubles?

Counting only slams win doesn’t make sense for the sixties, nor the seventies.

I watched tennis from 1975 — and when somebody writes that Agassi is a “great” of the game, ok, I can understand it, but he is nowhere near Lendl, or Wilander, or JMac, or Connors. I know it — because I watched him. I don’t care only about his results. It’s not only numbers.

It’s not only a question of numbers.


mat4 Says:

@James:

Just skip his posts. He’s probably drunk.


J-Kath Says:

GG – Oh no, Gypsy, you and your crystals will be needed…tell you what you can leave after 3 sets????????????????????


Margot Says:

Oh shame about Sockit and Poppit. Really like them. :(
@mat4
Wasn’t being entirely serious. Just fed up with endlessly repeated points and endless squabbles.
As I said, let’s leave the discussion until the current contenders have retired.
Hoping Andy gets a set, at least. so ta Sean, I’ll take that! ;)


courbon Says:

…6inch taller version of Ferrer???
That is so funny.James keep writing, please!
I can see right now Margot making a voodoo doll with “james” writen on it and poking angrily needel’s,CDP responded in his usual subtle way all we need now response from certain Scotish lady…
I was watching Muppet Show with my kids up to now, but this way much funnier


Margot Says:

@Kath
Ask your crystals for Andy to have a terrific first serve % , because he hasn’t got a chance without it.


Margot Says:

Lol courbon, I do love you even if your wife doesn’t…
*innocent face*
Now could you please send me that lock of James’ hair you promised…;)


Giles Says:

Andy will do some serious butt kicking today!


calmdownplease Says:

`@James:

Just skip his posts. He’s probably drunk.’

What, are you his boyfriend or something?!
Stay out of other’s arguments and mind your own business!
Although, I can see why you would relate to him from space.
You have a similar level of opinion on the game.
Which is why I ALWAYS skip yours.

`I watched tennis from 1975 ‘

A-ha!
So might senility be creeping in a bit?
If it is I apologise, I do automatically respect old people a lot, even when they don’t deserve it, as is your case.


courbon Says:

Margot-deal! ( she talks to me today…probably because she needs me to cook tonight -she is doing Yoga tonight..ahhh…all I need her to start collecting crystals and I have Gypsy Gal for a wife…)

James-I have a odd habit of collecting others people hair.Could you send me lock of your hair please?


Gypsy Gal Says:

Margot i talk to my crystals so i already have,people here will think im barking mad,but its true….


Gypsy Gal Says:

Courbon your wife and i have alot in common,as i also do Yoga,and Tai Chi….

J-Kath i cleanse my crystals everyday,in salted water,and leave on the window sill for the sun to charge them….


Daniel Says:

Is all about perspective. I like both, will be happy whoever wins today (if Murray wins twoMasters finals over Novak this tear out of 3 played this year would be a great result for him), but the possibility of Djoko winning 6 Masters this year (something I don’t think will ever happen again) makes me want him towin more. This is the first time a players is playing for a 6th master in a season and we are si used to Djoko einning everything this year that it’s not gettingthe attention it needs. Mark my words, we are never going to see it anytime soon (unless he repriduces this year in 2016). This is a remarkable feat in tennis.

As fir Fed, he doesn’t have a provlem with other players right now, specially for Slam, he has a Djoko problem. So if he keeps the form we saw from halle to USO and he doesn’t play Djoko I take his chances.

Nadal has to get back to Master finals contention before he can be a force in Slams again and by the looks of it, it doesn’t look good at all. He okays short, not defend as before and hos serve is weaker than before. Heis refressing so to speak while other are improving, my twocentes: age! And he can’t stip that with the way he played. Glimpses of great serve in 2010 ora more inside the court aproach as 2013 NA HC swing were not the norm for him.

The real question to challenge Djoko is Murray and today he can show us if he will be up to it.


calmdownplease Says:

`J-Kath i cleanse my crystals everyday,in salted water’

Is this a euphemism for something?!
What are you all on about?
Honestly, this thread has been mostly incomprehensible
;0)


calmdownplease Says:

And also, in case I didn’t make it clear;

Ferrer is F**k All like Andy Murray!


Gypsy Gal Says:

CDP crystals are said to have positive healing properties,i have a bag of different crystals and a book on how they can help,they can balance out positive energy,i cleanse them to get rid of negativity,if you think this is hocus pocus fair enough your entitled to your opinion,but you did ask so….


AndyMira Says:

Truth be told,it’s a little bit annoying reading some people predict the future like they’re God..it’s not anyone bussiness but God okay?What is this Novak the goat?Please the guy only got 10!Why don’t we wait until he got at least 15 then it all make sense..


calmdownplease Says:

I was joking GG
I kinda knew but I must admit I’m not exactly convinced
maybe a bit too subtle for my needs unless I got some the size of boulders!


Gypsy Gal Says:

CDP LOL No unless you live in my world,or lead my sort of life its most unlikely….


FedExpress Says:

murray is a laughing stock vs nole

the match at the shanghai masters 2012 changed the dynamic in the match up. its like the nadal federer match up

break to love


Daniel Says:

s all about perspective. I like both, will be happy whoever wins today (if Murray wins twoMasters finals over Novak this tear out of 3 played this year would be a great result for him), but the possibility of Djoko winning 6 Masters this year (something I don’t think will ever happen again) makes me want him towin more. This is the first time a players is playing for a 6th master in a season and we are si used to Djoko einning everything this year that it’s not gettingthe attention it needs. Mark my words, we are never going to see it anytime soon (unless he repriduces this year in 2016). This is a remarkable feat in tennis.

As fir Fed, he doesn’t have a provlem with other players right now, specially for Slam, he has a Djoko problem. So if he keeps the form we saw from halle to USO and he doesn’t play Djoko I take his chances.

Nadal has to get back to Master finals contention before he can be a force in Slams again and by the looks of it, it doesn’t look good at all. He okays short, not defend as before and hos serve is weaker than before. Heis refressing so to speak while other are improving, my twocentes: age! And he can’t stip that with the way he played. Glimpses of great serve in 2010 ora more inside the court aproach as 2013 NA HC swing were not the norm for him.

The real question to challenge Djoko is Murray and today he can show us if he will be up to it.


Daniel Says:

Djoko already breaking Murray to love with very agressive play by Novak making Murray run. Let’s see if he hold


FedExpress Says:

hahahahha. murray u mug


Gypsy Gal Says:

CDP i have a Novak vodoo doll which im sticking pins in as we speak,kidding of course…. ;)


FedExpress Says:

one lineswoman is so cute


calmdownplease Says:

short balls and whack
no short balls please
actually be PERFECT Andy
;)


calmdownplease Says:

well I hope your crystals are more effective dear!


Daniel Says:

Perfect drop by Murray


FedExpress Says:

murrays serve is a weakness


Daniel Says:

Quality match, almost all shots are ending with winners or almost winners. No bad unforced errors.


FedExpress Says:

drop shot mania


FedExpress Says:

murray is an UE machine


FedExpress Says:

hahaha

3 winners 10 UE+1UE


FedExpress Says:

poor quality so far


FedExpress Says:

what a joke this surface is


Daniel Says:

This tourney Djoko’s cross court angled FH is killing everybody


Gypsy Gal Says:

Well Daniel thinks its a good quality match,and Fedexpress thinks its a poor quality match?….


FedExpress Says:

nole picked his game up

murray is poor


calmdownplease Says:

42% is not going to cut it
Andy is just waiting for another break with that!
But it has to get better
Ominous 4th game from Novak


jalep Says:

Omg, cdp, has me laughing about boulder-sized crystals…i want a pair too ahhahahaha

Come on Andy get a set, man! Both these guys have a shed load of masters titles.


calmdownplease Says:

being a slow starter but not having to lose the first set is a bad combination!


FedExpress Says:

murray is a joke


calmdownplease Says:

well that’s the set then
What is the response
will he collapse further?
or wake up & make a match of it?
inquiring minds want to know


Gypsy Gal Says:

Jalep ha ha,glad you liked it….


Gypsy Gal Says:

Hmm same old predictable pattern im afraid :(….


calmdownplease Says:

Andy can’t seem to hit a BH a FH or serve
Novak is Mister Consistent as ever
Oh well
Another boring match between the two
Bodes well for 2016!


Margot Says:

same old. Same old. Alas.
Andy needs time to settle and, of course, Nole doesn’t give him any.
Collective group hug for all Andy fans, wherever you are.


Daniel Says:

Match over, we all know Murray can’t beat Novak after losing first set. There is always a first, but not look like it will be today, Djoko on top form.


jalep Says:

Gypsy, does size matter when it comes to crystals?


calmdownplease Says:

I can see it from Pronin already;
MY GAWD, NOVAK BEAT ANDY ON THE SURFACE PERFECTLY SUITED FOR ‘EVEN MURRAY’!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Daniel Says:

I thout it was a good quality math until 3-2 Djoko. Nice rallies, Murray saved BP with authority but now it beacame mental once again and Murray can’t produce.


Margot Says:

Lol jalep
Size matters. The end. ;)


Gypsy Gal Says:

Agree about this match up,promises so much but doesnt live up to the hype anymore….


jalep Says:

Yep, they need to take the “degree of difficulty” back to where it was before the “golden age” and at least have the final in masters be best of 5 sets.


calmdownplease Says:

Novak can keep him in the rallies knowing he just can’t help it with the shanks
Its time he got a PROPER coach as well
Leave Amelie to her diaper duties.
Buh-Bye


Gypsy Gal Says:

Jalep lol no,fraid not….


calmdownplease Says:

I remember when Andy used to be the ‘Masters Monster’,
JUST
Long time ago that one
Poor Lad.


calmdownplease Says:

Andy has too much to catch up with now.
he’d need a 4 month training block judging from this and most recent matches against Novak since the surgery.


calmdownplease Says:

Novak got way over the top there!
Its only a point!


calmdownplease Says:

if you are playing against the best player in the world, it’s perhaps best NOT to score so many own goals with such avoidable UEs!


Daniel Says:

Replay of first set.


calmdownplease Says:

6-2 6-2 ANYONE?
Sigh


Daniel Says:

Murray break back to love. Interesting!


Daniel Says:

32% second serves win for Murray won’t cut it.


jalep Says:

Gypsy, seriously the 5 set format for finals in masters would make tennis harder and the masters mean more. Federer already has a tough time winning these except for Cincy but having it be hard for thirty-something’s? oh well. Younger players would have a physical advantage if they worked for it, thus it would give them an area to improve their ranking and be in better shape for GS’s earlier.

That’s how I see it, anyway. The big 4 dominance of these masters events has become ridiculous. Would like the entire masters series in every round to be best of 5 but…too many would complain and it doesn’t fit into TV broadcasts.


Okiegal Says:

Question?? Can Federer at his best, being the undisputed GOAT and all, beat Novak at Novak’s best??


Margot Says:

Just seen how insanely well Andy has to play just to break Nole’s serve :(
@jalep
I think Andy has a better chance in best of 5. More time to settle etc.


calmdownplease Says:

trying for another gear…..


Okiegal Says:

Good patience,Andy….when playing Novak you’ve got to be patient…


Margot Says:

@CDP
He’s trying to be more aggressive, which we’ve all been egging him on to be. Bound to be more UEs. But at least he’s trying.
And before you get there…yes very, boom, boom.


Daniel Says:

This set quality is high again


Daniel Says:

Murray went a gear up but Nole rase the level as well, this game Murray played to break but still Djoko hold.


calmdownplease Says:

‘I think Andy has a better chance in best of 5. More time to settle etc’

He is not used to competing with the intensity that fed and esp Novak bring
He was out and trying to catch up for a long time and clearly it is too long
Playing Novak this year is simply a STEP UP
And Muzz can’t quite handle it at all


FedExpress Says:

0-30 and murray the mug cant take advntage


Daniel Says:

2 great returns by Djoko after first serves and is double Bp


jalep Says:

Okiegal, why do you bring up such a topic? You are joking, right ;) #notgoatagain


calmdownplease Says:

Margot
Yes but you know he should still not be making so many UEs!
He should be more aggressive anyway
At least this set is a bit better


calmdownplease Says:

125-40!
did i speak too soon?


mat4 Says:

Novak seems very tired.


Daniel Says:

And he break, Murray serve 8 times and was broken 4 times so far. Can’t keep it up like this


calmdownplease Says:

15-40 and now broken
We are ALL very tired Jalep!

;)


calmdownplease Says:

This is an abortion-omnishambles for Andy!


calmdownplease Says:

Well, at least he is doing better than Rafa at the moment
but then he does have 14 slams to his name
hehe


Margot Says:

Yes CDP Andy 2o winners 30 UEs. Nole 11-11
Think that’s right. Clearly won’t cut it.


calmdownplease Says:

I’m done.
CIAO for now.


Okiegal Says:

@Jalep…..I wanted to see if anyone would respond to me!! Lol Okay, take the goat word out of my comment….I would still like to know if anyone
thinks if Roger at his best could beat Novak at his best?? I don’t think so…..Nole is a beast at this time in his career, just curious what tennis fans think if they faced each other at their best, the outcome. I regret putting the goat word in my comment, because I hate that issue too! Sorry!


jalep Says:

I’m not sure what favors Andy at this point in their match-up, Margot. Clay, maybe? Andy had an exceptional clay season this year – perhaps he can repeat that and up his level there in 2016.

And yeah, I don’t enjoy this anymore. Would like Nole to win Cincy but geez he has enough masters already. Best of 5 would at least make Nole win 3 sets – give Andy a chance to get a set and build from there.


Daniel Says:

Congrats Djoko, record 6th Masters inna seaon, 1 wtf title away from the best season in tennis ever.

26 Masters title, next year almost sure to be leader, step by step writen hos name in tennis history books, possibly to be the greatest in a few years.


FedExpress Says:

he wont be the greatest ever


Gypsy Gal Says:

Jalep yeah i completely agree with the 5 set format in the Masters even if its just the semis or the finals,anyway i gave up after the first set and put the football on im afraid,same old story….


Margot Says:

Congrats to Nole, again, again again!
@jalep
Grass.
@kath and GG
Do you know, I didn’t see Andy use that “cheap trick” dropping the ball tactic once. Perhaps I need to go to spec savers.
Or perhaps I don’t.
Onwards and upwards to the Davis Cup. Another milestone.


Okiegal Says:

Beast has done it again! Congratulations to the Novak fans….he’s just freaking awesome! I think he could when with one arm tied behind his back and a leg in a cast. Lol. Sorry to Murray fans….wish he could have won! I was pulling for him. Can anyone out there beat this guy?? Me thinks NOT!!!


jalep Says:

Okiegal…always glad to see you posting and hoping you’re doin’ okay.


Travis Bickle Says:

Sorry for nice Murray’s fans here (Margot & co), really sorry.

Confort could be that Andy loses against the guy who is clearly superior player to him – it’s much easier to take loses when that happen that way.

Murray fought hard as always, some clutch first serves at break points, few “nervous tic” repeated ball tosses (5 or so), and some great drop shots. But, Novak is simply so much above the rest of tennis field today that taking a set from him should be seen as an achievement.


courbon Says:

And, yeah-I do enjoy this a lot!
Commis to Andy fans, what a year this have been…Wog Boy, time to open that Jameson.
Mat 4, open that Burgundy.Jane, open…herbal tea? What a heck, have a whisky as well!


Tennisfan Says:

Roger right now gives Novak trouble so why wouldn’t he beat Nole when at his best?
GOAT stuff is a waste of time imo. Fedal are still the benchmark for many records atm- and I don’t doubt that Nole can surpass those and set some of his own too. Anyways grats to him for another M1000.


Travis Bickle Says:

And yes, Margot you need specs. Andy used his “nervous tic” more than once today – rematch the tape if you don’t believe me.
No specs needed, just a bit of objectivity…


Ben Pronin Says:

CDP, you must have me confused with someone else. I have no reason to downplay Novak’s chances just to boast about him later. I expect Novak to win everything.

I said the surface suits Murray’s game, I never said he was the favorite to win against Djokovic.

Surface doesn’t matter against Novak, he’s simply better.

I thought Murray looked tired today. Djokovic picked up where he left off in the third set against Stan, playing fast and aggressive. He had some weird games in the second set, particularly when he got broken, but otherwise he didn’t give Murray much time to get settled in.


courbon Says:

Oki, Margot-thanks!
Well, nothing last forever so 2016 will bring different winners


jalep Says:

Margot, don’t you think Andy’s been practicing on clay? Belgium is going to regret clay, methinks.


Vami Says:

The “talented guy” is now 09 – 21 in h2h. The reality is that he needs Novak to have a bad day to have any chance of winning. It didn’t happen today.


Giles Says:

Best of five was tried and tested in case you guys have forgotten. It’s best of 3 now and to stay!!
WTF should be best of five, at least the finals but nobody seems to want a change there. 😡😡


Gypsy Gal Says:

Congrats to the decent Novak fans out there,streets ahead of the rest at the moment….


Okiegal Says:

@jalep….Thanks, good days and bad. I’m having a sciatic problem with my left hip, I’m in the bed atm. Hopefully when I take all the steroids I’m supposed to, it will get better. Also taking a muscle relaxer which makes me sleepy. Thanks for your concern.


Giles Says:

Joker can hang his wife’s earrings on that trophy. 😛😳


jalep Says:

PospiSock :/ Really hoped they’d win the Paris Final.


Gypsy Gal Says:

Courbon my crystals and voodoo doll didnt work this time,anyway big congrats to Novak and all the NICE AND DECENT fans out there especially you….


Okiegal Says:

I would not want that trophy placed somewhere the sun don’t shine!! Lol…..odd looking trophy…..the tennis Tree of Life???


Travis Bickle Says:

Murray and his fans will be fine!
Who I feel sorry are these miserable Rafanatics. It’s OK for them to be delusional and believe that he is not finished forever – no problem in that. But showing up here day by day and hoping for Novak loss, and being disappointed 99% of time borders on insanity…


Okiegal Says:

@Courbon, u r welcome!!


Okiegal Says:

Novak , don’t poke your eye out. It kind of looks like a bunch of deer antlers…


Gypsy Gal Says:

Hi Okie nice to see you here,sorry to hear your not feeling too great….


J-Kath Says:

Perhaps this is not the right time to ask a question however:

the overall H2H Murray v Djokovic for masters is very much in Murray’s favour – I’m now asking myself if that is true!!!


Giles Says:

Earlier mat4 said joker looks tired. LMAO. He nestles in his EGG to avoid tiredness.


Okiegal Says:

Rafa fans are fine also…..We’re resilient!!


courbon Says:

Perhaps I should not answer, however:
It is not true.
12:8 in Novaks favour

http://www.stevegtennis.com/head-to-head/men/Novak_Djokovic/Andy_Murray/

(-:


Ben Pronin Says:

J-Kath, their Masters finals h2h is now tied 4-4.


Gypsy Gal Says:

Okie true,more bounce than zebbedee…


jalep Says:

Was just looking at the Andole h2h, J-Kath.

Masters used to be in Andy’s favor (I didn’t count it) but think it’s in Novak’s favor now. 21-9 overall after today.


Okiegal Says:

@GG, thanks! Not being able to walk without moaning is no fun!!


J-Kath Says:

Margo: Left Andy to it today as he refused to respond second time of asking….not speaking to him for a while. Also thought Gypsy was watching football and I was on my tod.

Courbon: I presume I am the “certain Scottish Lady”.
How did you know I was royally honoured? I have kept my high ranking to myself so that nobody thinks I’m stuck-up. Now that you know please mind your “P’s” and “Q’s”….In the meantime you have my permission to get moving pronto into the kitchen.


J-Kath Says:

Jalep: The head to head is as you say but according to what I read today Andy still leads on the 1000-Masters….I’ll see if I can find the article again.


Travis Bickle Says:

“but according to what I read today Andy still leads on the 1000-Masters”

I suggest stop reading “Cuckoo’s Nest News” and transition to the world of sane folks…


jalep Says:

http://www.atpworldtour.com/en/players/fedex-head-2-head/novak-djokovic-vs-andy-murray/D643/MC10

Here you go, Kath. I ran out of fingers and my eyeballs rolled – lost track.


elina Says:

Three slams – six Masters titles and two Finals. 14 consecutive finals.

WTF win or lose is just icing.

Best. Year. Ever. Of all time.

Congrats to Nole and his great fans here Woggy, jalep, jane, courbon and those I’ve missed.


Margot Says:

Gosh TV, do you have a heart after all? ;)Thought you were the tin man there for a mo.
Yes, us Murray fans will be fine. Continual disappointment is our friend and constant companion and is so very, very, character building….:’(
Bah!


jalep Says:

Thanks, elina. I don’t stick to party lines for anyone. And probably won’t be cheering for Novak to win masters that he’s won multiple times unless it’s against Federer or Nadal. But, do hope to see Novak break Federer’s #1 record, so…yeah, glad he won today, every win that keeps him #1 is good for that.


Gypsy Gal Says:

Im one of those Rafa fanatics who believes he has a chance,even if that theory is misplaced somewhat,but then again im bi-polar anyway,and see that the earth is flat and the moon is made of cheese,its almost medication time,and time for my straight jacket i think?….


Ben Pronin Says:

If Novak goes 0-3 at WTF, it is no longer the best season ever. He still has a lot to play for.


Gypsy Gal Says:

And One Flew Over The Cuckoos Nest is one of my favorite films,also love Girl Interupted which is like a female version,go figure….


Margot Says:

Meant TB not TV obviously. A very different person.
Lol just thought us Murray fans are like that kid’s toy you knock over, but just comes bouncing right back up, smiling cheerfully. We’re saints, we are.
Wellllll….maybe not all of us…..


J-Kath Says:

Jalep: Thanks for the link …but it only gave the events where Andy and Nole met. I couldn’t find the earlier article but I checked elsewhere and as far as the Masters go Nole has 26 and Andy 11…No wonder I was surprised by that article….if I ever find it again I’ll bookmark it…..Ugh.
Thanks for your time.


Gypsy Gal Says:

Jalep what about the GS,am i right in thinking that you once said you didnt really want Novak winning anymore AOs?….


J-Kath Says:

Margot – There’s a pretty nasty smell is there a Turd or two around?


elina Says:

Dream on Ben. Presumptuous as usual.

He’s already two better than Roger.


Vami Says:

@TB 11:26
You’re really funny. Keep it up.


jalep Says:

J-Kath, you have to click the events breakdown and count on the ATP h2h site.

But I believe what courbon says – 12-8 is probably right for Masters h2h with Novak at this point.

courbon posted a link for steveG tennis – that’s a good place for h2h.


Chrisford1 Says:

6 Masters in one year is going to be a record very hard to beat. Same with just making the finals in 8 of 9, even if you play all 9, and are not 8 for 8. (plus 4 Slam finals).

Djokovic passed Lendl (22) and Fed (24) this year, and is within 1 of tying Rafa for the most ever. Andy is unlikely to challenge this with 11 won so far in his career – and there really isn’t anyone on the horizon.

Only thing left in Masters 1000 play for Djokovic, besides passing Rafa, is Cincinnati, and that may not happen in 2016 at least because of the schedule pressure the Olympics adds. Coming between Canada and Cincinnati right before the USO. Something has to give. Sorry, Cincinnati folks – but anyone making the medal round will be unlikely to attend your tournament!


Gypsy Gal Says:

To each his or her own i suppose….


Travis Bickle Says:

These SkySport commies are hilarious, especially the ugly stiff guy (Fleming, I think). In the post-match discussion, they contemplate how Novak is currently untouchable and ponder can he be beaten. Then the ugly/stiff guy comes with the brilliant scenario – he says if Novak was given draw that he meets Rafa in QF and wins but Rafa runs him around for 3 hours, then in SF he gets Wawrinka and has another 3-4 hours match, preferably late night match, and then finally reaches the final where fresh Federer or Murray wait for him and play their best – that is how Novak will be beaten according to the SkyFart expert!

I love it, bring more analysis like that! That guy must be writing for the newspaper J-Kath reads, which claims Andy leads Novak in masters 1000 H2H…


courbon Says:

Ben, j-Kath question was in masters H2H, not master finals
H2H in overall master matches is 11:5 ( my mistake, not 12:8 )
Finals 4:4


jalep Says:

Gypsy, I’m very enthusiastic about Novak increasing his GS count, though many Novak fans, especially the anti-feds, don’t use that antiquated metric.

He can win 7 more AO’s for all I care. And never win a French – or, any combination of the GS to put him over 17 and that will do just fine. It will put the goat debate to bed. lol…

Nole has a talent for being #1 and dominating the field — making it look weak is the only way to accomplish breaking Federer’s record there. I’m prepared to defend Novak to weak era theorists even if I’m sick of him winning at that point! lol……


elina Says:

Murray can clinch No. 2 year end with two wins at WTF or a win and a Davis Cup title.

Roger has to win the WTF to have a mathematical chance.


courbon Says:

Jalep, am I back in your good books? Or shall I keep my head down for a while?


elina Says:

jalep what would be the point.

You won’t convince weak era theorists and they won’t convince you.

Prevoncieved notions.


jane Says:

jalep, do popsi and sock make the WTFs? i was hoping they’d win too.

giles, that’s actually funny about novak’s wife’s new earring tree. lol that trophy is a love/hate proposition.

margot, the da, and others, just think DC!! i am sure andy and co will win it. he destroyed goffin earlier this week, which is a good sign. commies re: today but good sign andy’s sharp.

elina, thanks!

all novak’s fans here, big hugs, a tremendous season. not much else to say really. just happy novak seems really happy and seems love the game.

still WTFs, of course, but next yr will have and extra charge to it, with the olympics coming up.


Ben Pronin Says:

You’re telling me if Djokovic goes 0-3 at WTF, ending the season with 78-8 record and losing 3 straight matches against top 10 to end the year it’ll still be regarded as the best season ever? No, it absolutely will not.

No idea how I’m being presumptuous. I doubt it’ll happen, I expect Novak to win. But you’re being presumptuous in your declaration. He still has a lot to play for. It ain’t over till it’s over.


Vami Says:

12-8 in masters can’t be right. Andy beat Novak in 2 slam finals and at olympics, that’s already 3 wins out of 9 so at best he could have 6 wins against Novak in masters. The stated number for Novak looks okay if not on the low side (21 wins altogether).


jane Says:

“It will put the goat debate to bed. lol…”

ha ha, jalep, that’s a pipe dream. :) that’s the never-ending story.


Gypsy Gal Says:

Jalep im confused by your post,i thought you wanted Novak to win a FO?….


courbon Says:

Vami, 11:5-my mistake


elina Says:

And now I’m in moderation because I said BP was presumptuous. I guess Ben calls the shots around here. I won’t be responding to any of his digs in the future.

elina Says:
Novak will likely tie him next year.
October 21st, 2015 at 10:41 am

Ben Pronin Says:
Always so presumptuous.
October 21st, 2015 at 10:52 am

What’s the difference Ben? You can dish it but you can’t take it LOL.

mew!


Ben Pronin Says:

No idea what you’re talking about, I have no control over the moderation.

What’s with all the back and forth about the records? Just look here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Djokovic%E2%80%93Murray_rivalry#Analysis


madmax Says:

Elina, calm down.

Was there any real doubt that Novak would win today? It is an amazing performance by him this year.


Chrisford1 Says:

Ben – After Beijing, Novak declared himself totally stoked to go for his best at Shanghai, Paris, and the WTF. After Shanghai, he said the same about the remaining two events.
Now? I think he has “man on a mission!” level focus on the WTF.
It’s not just going for the best year ever. Djokovic attaches huge prestige to the championships. He has 4, inc 3 in a row. Tied with Lendl. Sampras in his sights with 5. And who knows, if he wins this year, matching or exceeding Roger Federer’s 6 is quite possible.
(Whereas if Fed beats him there or wins in some other scenario, he has 7 and Novak has 4 and it’s game over. Roger will have that record a long, long time.)

Stakes are high for both Nole and Fed. And of course the 6 others with no WTF titles – should any of them win over the two Titans, it is a great career moment.


mat4 Says:

@Travis Bickle:

TB, not so long ago, after the hype created when Murray beat Novak in Montreal, when forecasting the result of their match in Shanghai, Marcus Buckland tried to make Peter Fleming say that Murray was close to Novak now. Fleming answered immediately that Novak was undeniably clearly the better player.

Peter Fleming usually speaks his mind, and he was clear this evening too: Marcus tried to make him say that Novak’s domination was bad for the sport, he refused, and argued the opposite. So, when Marcus made the point that the WTF could be boring, Peter answered that under certain conditions… [the one you mentioned] you never know.


courbon Says:

Ben: “What’s with all the back and forth about the records? ”
Nothing-It’s called blogging…
and off course that everything is on Wikipedia. Maybe we should stop sending kids to school also?


Travis Bickle Says:

But you’ve got to admit, mat4 that those “certain conditions” are beyond wishful thinking – I actually liked it a lot when I heard him say it. He seemed desperate – all three of them in the studio did.


jalep Says:

I do want Novak to win FO, Gypsy. But in case he doesn’t, 8,9,10 more GS will do, just get him past Fedal. My favorite time reading these blogs is when the isn’t a GOAT debate, a weak era anti-fed spouting, and there’s a few fans around that don’t just think ATP, golden age, big 4, ect… there wouldn’t even be tennis without the overlooked other hundreds of players.

Or, maybe we just have some sort of over-hyped one on one contest in tennis like in Boxing. Dispense with the rounds and draws — those tournaments are useless, boring, remnants and fillers show up.

You get my point? I do love watching Nole ole ole. But to have him break #1 Federer records and GS records he will have to win, win, win and dominate, dominate, dominate. He can do it — he’s that good. Will I be cheering for him the entire way? Not sure – but I won’t be not cheering for him because I don’t want him breaking Federer’s records — quite the opposite.

Overall it’s not natural for me to cheer for one player; or, a player because he/she is from my country in any sport. Does that make sense, or no? I’m odd, Gypsy. There isn’t a mold for it. My democratic friends are mad at me because I won’t get on the Hillary Clinton bandwagon. But I can’t back anyone who voted for the war in Iraq.


Giles Says:

jalep. Don’t hold your breath dear. Joker won’t win the FO and joker won’t pass Fedal. 😜
Don’t be mad, just be happy joker has come this far.


jane Says:

when is the election jalep? i hope it turns out well for you guys. i didnt watch SNL last night because they had on the Chump. do you like bernie?


jalep Says:

Bernie Sanders is my man, jane. And I don’t watch anything that Trump is “on.” It flabbergasts me that anyone takes him seriously or gives him the time of day, wtf?

The election is a year from now – Nov. 2016. My friends who were here Thursday, Friday, and half the day Sat. all like Bernie but think he can’t win …so were plying me to get on board. I did that for Obama – can’t do it. Bernie is the only one making sense.


mat4 Says:

Travis:

It was pure but veiled sarcasm…


jane Says:

i like bernie best too jalep, based on what i’ve head from all the candidates. he’s no nonsense and seems the most honest to me. i hope, as i say, it turns out well. you’re our neighbours after all!


Margot Says:

@jalep
I feel the same. Here in UK we have a new Labour leader, Jeremy Corbyn. He is anti war, didn’t vote for the Iraq war, anti renewal of Trident etc. He hasn’t a hope in hell of being elected PM in 5 years time, but he is certainly shaking things up nicely. The mainly right wing press is apoplectic with rage, which is most excellent.


Gypsy Gal Says:

Jalep lol yeah got it,makes perfect sense in a most (no offence)but bizzare kind of way…. ;P….


Gypsy Gal Says:

Politicians meh,a much of a muchness….


Chrisford1 Says:

Jalep – A small digression into US rooting and US politics isn’t a bad digression as it is a break from GOAT talk…and we need that now and then.

I have US citizenship and find it natural to root for US teams in international competition or US individual athletes at the Olympics, but there are exceptions even there. I rooted for the interesting Aussie snowboarder Torah Bright over her US competitors at Vancouver, for the Argentinian Olympic basketball team….

In tennis though, having traveled enough that I can see the merits of foreigners from different cultures, see them as individuals, I don’t root by the flag….though if Delpo, Rafa, and Nole were American by chance I would root for them even more. Maybe Jack Sock or Taylor Fritz will be a future fave of mine…but right now, no Americans occupy my “fave” list for tennis, except the Bryan Brothers. Even Andy, with all his angst and Scot choleric ways…is more appealing than zzzzzzzz – John Isner. Or Querry. Or Donald Young…

As for politics – I hate pols with a nepotic sense of entitlement. Or blatant race, sex, gender identity politics pols. ie:

“My Daddy was Pappy Bush, now it is my turn.”
“All blacks have a duty to vote for me as I identify as all black, not 50-50 white-black.”
OR:
“I deserve the Presidency because I married Bill Clinton and because as a woman, it is our turn.” (Even though I have more baggage than went down on the Titanic, was a mediocre wife and US Senator, an awful Secretary of State, got rich and lived high on the hog from my powerful friends and spouse’s influence, and of course lost my inevitable nomination to a black who ranks higher in moral superiority in Democrat Party thinking than an ‘oppressed’ white woman.)

I like Bernie Sanders because he is exactly who he says he is, rose on his own merits, gets things done, and is an honest guy. Despite him being a lifelong socialist and embracer of PC. Probably wouldn’t vote for him, but I admire the guy for lacking Hillary’s mendaciousness and duplicity in smoke-filled backroom deals.


courbon Says:

Chris Ford-Thanks for educating me on Southern Fried Food-bizzare but probably delicious


jalep Says:

Thanks Gypsy. I’ve been called far worse, lol…at least you sorta get it.

You’ve never been in trouble with me, courbon. Being anti-fed is not bad. It can taint posters in a perverse direction sometimes, but your posts are far more enjoyable than not – your heart is gold.


jalep Says:

Well, I took you for a Trump kind of guy all along, CF1. We have too many differences to think otherwise,lol… ;) Don’t take me too seriously.

PC – is necessary. It’s called civility and tact.

But your side is bound to win, no doubt.


Wog Boy Says:

Congrats to my Nole fans for another record this year, he is writing his own tennis legacy at this very moment, let’s enjoy this moment, nobody knows how long it will last, cheers.

“your heart is gold.”
jalep be careful, you don’t know boys from that part of Belgrade, they’ll do anything to get under the women skin, they’ll behave like a lap dog just to get what they want, that’s friendly advice since I like you very much.

Frenchie, you are not wrong, 12 years old Jameson is waiting for me but I first have to put my “Turkish coffee” thing, let the cat out of garage, do the white coffee for my darling wife and wake her up since she has to work (somebody have to) and than enjoy the match, but first of all I have to get out of the bed, I just woke up with this nice news…”Djokovic won record sixth masters”
BTW, where is that closet Nole fan Angel(a), didn’t he/she said something here on TX just yesterday?


Wog Boy Says:

^^ commiserations to Andy fans


courbon Says:

Jalep-Just joking, I know we are Ok.But in all honesty-I do like Fed and Rafa for that matter but sometimes to respond to anti Novak post, I use the same weapon ( probably I should not go to their level but it works!They back off! )
USA Politics?? What I followed so far I can see that Trump is clown, Carson dangerous clown, Hillary hypocrite..Sanders looks like a decent candidate. Unfortunatelly, best man not always wins..


courbon Says:

Wog Boy-Good morning sunshine.
That’s the way to do it-send wife to work and then put up your feet and watch the tennis.Open Jameson, get drunk and day will pass like a dream…Rock’n’ Roll brate!
P.S; When you finish your Turkish coffee, can you have a look at the mug and see if predicts Nole winning Atp WTF?


Gypsy Gal Says:

I predict Nole will win ATP WTF title,as i just dont see how anyone else will….


Wog Boy Says:

Actually Frenchie, once upon a time, when I was employed in Belgrade, I use to tell the girls that I can see the future by looking in coffee mug after they finish their Turkish coffees so they use to come to my office and I did exactly what you said..needless to say who did I see as their next date;), those were good days:))


Gypsy Gal Says:

Some people will never learn i guess,seems Angel was way off the mark,then puff gone,say no more….


Wog Boy Says:

GG,

That’s correct, and thanks all for congrats.


jalep Says:

You summed it up very well — except both Trump and Carson are dangerous clowns, courbon, each in their own way, as are most democrats. Noam Chomsky is a guiding light and voice of wisdom for English speakers:

http://www.democracynow.org/2015/9/22/noam_chomsky_on_trump_we_should

Ah, you’re all sunshine here — WB, GG, courbon


Gypsy Gal Says:

Wogboy your welcome,your a cool bunch of fans to be honest,but theres maybe just one or two that get under my skin,so i will give as good as i get….


Bob Lewis Says:

Battle? hehehehe.


J-Kath Says:

A touch of politics eh? A difficult subject these days in the UK. The most important is the vote on stay/not stay within European Union…the result of that vote will trigger an absolute sea-change within the “UK nations” in a way that Trident will not in itself feature or easily alter the status quo.

There are two female leaders in the EU and both are likely to stay the course. If anyone is seriously interested in Scottish affairs there is a top Scottish monthly with over 100 aclaimed international authors involved – at least their contribution transcends (at least appears to) transcend the pettiness occasionally posted on Tennis links.


mat4 Says:

@jane:

See on your account #thenarrativemustcontinue… Unfortunately, how right you are!


Chrisford1 Says:

At the risk of indulging in too much politics, Trump isn’t my sort of leader – he might reform, but has done a great job “damaging his brand” by beclowning himself for PR, fun, and profit..You can have civility, but the fascist Left’s idea of civility is you have to be civil by agreeing with them, and PC is a way to threaten dissenters for stifling them. Classic Stage II brownshirt tactics…which the Bolsheviks, National Socialists, and various “internal security organs” of despots take into stage III and IV of political correctness. You know, camps, mass graves….

Noam Chomsky could only exist in a nation that is willing to send people to fight and die for his beliefs that they are evil oppressors. Not too many nations like that have existed in history. Typically, the Chomskys meet a grim fate.

Cuisine – Courbon, hope you do someday travel to the South of the USA and try some of the unique regional treats out for yourself and friends on tourist visit. Research what is offered and where. Avoid dangerous parts of America – they obviously exist in Northern inner cities, but also sections of the South, Southwest.
Besides fried stuff, you have the South as home to 7-8 distinct “schools” of barbecue.
And Louisiana is always ‘unique’ sometimes for the good, sometimes for the bad. Fine mix of Creole, French, classic Americana recipes. And it’s own local unusual fare like sassafras flavored gumbo, 6-7 great varieties of Boudin, inc. alligator. The origin point of hypodermic needle injected seasoning of pork, turkey, chicken – then launched into a deep fryer.


Vami Says:

@Jalep 2:32
“Noam Chomsky is a guiding light and voice of wisdom for English speakers.”
I just couldn’t resist to state this one more time as I love the guy.


Wog Boy Says:

It is up to American to choose their President, but considering American influence in the world politics I am scared of thought that Hillary Clinton can become next US President, that woman is dangerous, even Roger Waters agrees with me:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/roger-waters-fears-hillary-clinton-could-be-first-female-president-to-drop-a-nuclear-bomb-a6709916.html


courbon Says:

Chris ford:Thank you for write up on Southern Food-I love grill ( bit less deep fried stuff, but I like to try everything ) so maybe one day, I will visit that part of the world…
Politics, eh?I have real problem fitting and suporting political parties because while I’m naturally more Right, there is lots of ‘Socialist’ agendas that I support.But I can not stand Euroeean Socialist on the other hand…and then depends on the countrys-Ok or French centar right are kind of OK with me, while USA Republicans are almost extreme right in my opinion.( and hence too much for my taste )..confused? I’m confused myself …(-:


jalep Says:

Cheers, Vami :) Are you in the US?

Have no clue what CF1 is talking about — he’s not describing Chomsky. Chomsky advocating war? quite the opposite. Complete misinterpretation CF1. Good luck with that.


jalep Says:

WB, Hillary would take longer to drop the bomb on Iran than most Republican candidates, but only by a matter of months. She’s already proven to be of the same ilk of the Republicans and Democrats who do absolutely nothing to stop international terrorism. That’s all I’m going to say. This could get ugly between CF1 and myself.


Chrisford1 Says:

Jalep, you misread. The only reason Chomsky is free to be subversive and try and bring down the West is because the West fought and beat various nefarious rivals that would have given Mr Chomsky a very short lifespan.
That is not implying that Chomsky supports any war the US finds itself in


jalep Says:

It’s best we not get into it, CF1. See, I’m unwilling to argue with you about whether or not Chomsky’s positions are subversive and a threat to the West — that debate will go no where but muddy a tennis forum. We disagree deeply on political issues and that’s what I figured. Calling a truce. Not the place for this debate.


Vami Says:

@Jalep
I’m in Canada.
I’m glad to see that the old man still alive and kicking. Gondry in his movie “Is the Man Who Is Tall Happy?” wasn’t sure if he was going to make before the end of shooting and that was 2-3 years back!


J-Kath Says:

WogBoy

“Screams in the Dark” by Anna Smith ….maybe you’ve read it? If not maybe you’d recognise a lot of the locations? Her other location is Glasgow and the refugee/asylumseekers situation she writes about is bang on.


Margot Says:

I found such an interesting article, nicely embracing court speed and conspiracy theory.

https://www.perfect-tennis.com/tennis-court-surfaces-and-court-speeds/

In it the writer says, about hard courts: ” if the owners want a Nadal/Djokovich final they make the surface rough and sticky so the ball bounces high and slows down. There is nothing to stop them doing this either, which I find bizarre.”

Well, given the court conditions in Paris fit this descrition nicely, he got one finalist right!


J-Kath Says:

Read that Margot…so its your balls that count! I think I might remember that….

PS: Put an article on the other thread re. the dearth of the top 4 replaced by the No.1….thought it was quite interesting.

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