Novak Djokovic: If There’s No Proof Tennis Is Not Clean, Then Tennis Is Clean!
by Tom Gainey | April 20th, 2016, 10:02 am
  • 230 Comments

After winning this third Laureus Sportsman of the Year honor, Novak Djokovic responded to Andy Murray’s claim that there’s doping in tennis, making it clear he didn’t share the Scot’s view.

“As long as we don’t have proof that game is not clean, then it is clean,” Djokovic told the Telegraph. “I’ve read what he said, I have great relationship with Andy, I’ve spoken to him, he didn’t mean specific individuals.

“It’s tricky for tennis,” he added. “There’s many stories that go round – betting, match-fixing, doping – it seems the weight has come down on tennis. But I think it all comes down to anti-doping agencies, governing bodies; they need to come out with proofs, if they don’t it’s only rumours. I’m proud to be part of a sport that is clean.”

So Djokovic has already talked to Murray about the claim? What a conversation that must have been.


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230 Comments for Novak Djokovic: If There’s No Proof Tennis Is Not Clean, Then Tennis Is Clean!

nits Says:

It’s good they had a talk


roy Says:

yes, tennis is the only high profile, lucrative sport that is clean. because that feels nice. there’s absolutely no way of micro-dosing, masking etc.

to be honest, novak is basically the most suspicious player on tour as far as doping. if you followed his career from 18yrs, you’ll know he suddenly became an iron man and mental iron man after being physically and mentally suspect.

he even made nadal seem to have stamina issues in comparison. i remember when nadal could barely stand after the AO final and novak was having some kind of sixth wind at the end. that’s after playing a 5hr match with murray 2 days earlier.

now, nadal could have been using, as could any of them. but keep in mind nadal was always physically and mentally tough, nothing changed. novak suddenly completed changed. notice murray, super fit, suddenly couldn’t keep up with novak either, fading first all the time.

or perhaps novak is just a genetic freak. but i remember when the rochus’ were in disbelief at nadal’s stamina. novak has been a level above that for some time and nobody says a thing. it truly is suspicious how he suddenly became an iron man. and as for magic gluten … no.


Margot Says:

Absence of proof is not proof of absence.


Markus Says:

Margot has the more logical statement.

About Andy and Djokovic, they just happen to have different opinions. They are both levelheaded guys so there should not be any problem between them.


elina Says:

“As long as we don’t have proof that game is not clean, then it is clean”

So what he’s saying then is that the game isn’t clean.

Unless he’s had his head in the sand re Odesnik, Cilic, Troicki and Sharapova.


gee Says:

Lol suspicious? Talk about sour & ignorant.
Novak beat rafa & neighborly Swiss ballet dancer Fred, so he is the anti-athlete.
He’s the best player ever.
It’s not his fault that he’s so beautiful inside & out.
A comedian as well as tennis elegance & brutality.

The true freaks are fed & nadal, who couldn’t play each other at the us open, the place where the crowds supported darrhea mouth Roddick.
Their us open meeting would’ve been perfect for the sociopaths & bitter clown audience. Lmao


django Says:

I think he’s saying -if you have proof, show it. Until then, don’t accuse.
If I had to eyeball someone without proof I might look at Serena.


senorita Says:

Andy is just a bad loser. Why can’t he just accept that he is simply not in the same league as the other 3 in the Big 4. Nearly ALL his victories over Rafa have an asterisk by them. How can he throw his toys out of his pram when he loses to the King of Clay on clay? S Andy beat A struggling Rafa in Madrid last year, everyone but the man from Mars knows that Rafa lost to just about anyone on any surface last year.

This is what Stan had to say about his loss to Rafa in MC:
Wawrinka, on losing to Nadal: “If you play against Rafa in Monte-Carlo in the quarterfinals, you’re allowed to lose those matches.”


Humble Rafa Says:

You guys are too tough on people wearing skirts. It’s not necessary. The Lady Forehand just whines, it’s in his blood.


anki Says:

Andy Murray should just STFU and be more graceful after losing in his Press conferences. What a sore loser, unwanted trouble for Novak this loser is.


senorita Says:

Murray is a hypocrite. He has complained about drug testing a lot now he wants to stand on the moral high ground.
*******************

Andy Murray claims over late-night drug tests at Australian Open mystifies International Tennis Federation

The International Tennis Federation is mystified by complaints by Andy Murray that he was woken by drug-testers in the middle of the night.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/tennis/andymurray/8293881/Andy-Murray-claims-over-late-night-drug-tests-at-Australian-Open-mystifies-International-Tennis-Federation.html


RZ Says:

I’m posting this article in the Washington Post not to rile up the debate here (even though the article has a pretty contentious headline) but because there’s one statement that the author makes that I think many of us would find absurd. Who will find it first? :-)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2016/04/19/novak-djokovic-isnt-accused-of-doping-but-he-sounds-eerily-like-lance-armstrong/


Green Lady Says:

Andy has a valid point, nothing to do with the other 3 been more successful, thats neither here nor there, and besides its not as if he singled Rafa, Roger, Novak out anyway, he said ” PLAYERS” ie PLAYERS been the operative word, and im afraid it doesnt actually work that way Novak, as much as we would all love to think theres nothing fishy going on, unfortunatly its the world we live in ….


Margot Says:

I read the article from The Telegraph, published in 2011, and I notice, nobody denied Andy was woken at 4am. He also suggested players should be tested every single tournament and in the off season, in all about 30 times a year.
Really sounds like someone trying to dodge drug testing….not.


RZ Says:

@seniorita – he’s not copmlaining about the fact that he is being tested but rather about the timing of it (middle of the night). He was almost late to Buckingham Palace a couple of years ago when he was going to receive an award from Prince William because the testers showed up right before he was going to leave to go there. It’s fair to complain about that.


assia Says:

GL

Excuse me?? Everyone thinks he’s referencing Novak and Rafa because of his comments about the capacity for some players to win long matches and seemingly not tire. He directly cites this as suspicious. So who do you think he’s talking about?? Tennis fans think he’s talking about Novak and Rafa and so do the journalists including in reputable newspapers such as the Guardian.
If he makes such comments then it’s tantamount to pointing the finger.


Green Lady Says:

^ Well there you go then, then press can put their own interpretation into anything to get a scoop, and some other people can also get hold of the wrong end of the stick, as the saying goes, never let the truth get in the way of a good story ^….


assia Says:

GL What truth?? He’s pushed people in that direction through his own words. You haven’t said anything which explains away why he said what he did about players winning long matches and not going away. People are drawing their own conclusions through logical inference not fantasy.
It’s you who are talking in cliches.


Giles Says:

I do not believe Andy was woken up at 4 am. It would mean the tester would probably have to wake up at what 2.30 am? to make his way to Andy. I remember him complaining a while back that the tester knocked on his door at 6 am.
Exaggeration much!
🙄😳😫😠👀


senorita Says:

Andy has no business pointing the finger if he is not prepared to name names, that said, I don’t follow Nole’s logic especially as players have tested positive; one big tennis icon, Sharapova, is still waiting for her disciplinary hearing and players like Odesnik and Cilic have actually been suspended.

It seems as if testing is not consistent and depends largely on the local agency. Apparently, the guy in charge of testing in Switzerland is a friend of Roger’s and when Roger is in Dubai, where he spends a lot of time, he says he has only been tested once in 10 years.

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/sport/tennis/article4721171.ece


MMT Says:

Djokovic’s statement is illogical – the absence of proof of doping doesn’t mean there’s no doping. Furthermore, there HAS been proof of doping, it’s just never been elicited by anti-doping controls (e.g. Wayne Odesnik).

This is different from Becker’s statement, by the way, which was self-serving and hypocritical to say the least, and hyper-sensitive and suspiciously indignant for no reason other than he can’t stand being out of the limelight.

BTW, after providing an out for those caught with meldonium in their system, the ITF apparently have scheduled a hearing where a decision could rendered before Wimbledon.

http://espn.go.com/tennis/story/_/id/15277232/itf-president-says-hearing-scheduled-maria-sharapova-case


jane Says:

django, indeed. i am sure that’s essentially what he meant. it’s the same as what fed said about the match fixing story. don’t throw innuendo out there; instead, provide proof.

rz, “pretty contentious”? please, that’s close to libel imo.

as for how early in the morning testers come, i guess it is quite early. i know novak was tested twice during AO this year and once very definite before 8:00 am.

w.r.t. to rochas’ comments i don’t know who they were directed at but andy responded to them here:

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2013/jan/17/andy-murray-defends-doping-allegations?CMP=share_btn_tw


senorita Says:

Is Andy talking with forked tongues, this is what he said about the Rochus comments:

Anyone can see the amount of hours of training and practice that go into what we do. [Murray has just come off a five-week winter training bloc in Miami], and there are other sports that, endurance-wise, are far more challenging than tennis. No, the guys can’t just play five or six hours and then come back the next day and run around like rabbits.

“When guys play five or six hours in the slams like we often do, we have a day’s rest. I was told that after our semi-final here last year that Novak [Djokovic] on the day off [before the final against Rafael Nadal] didn’t practice, didn’t hit a ball, didn’t get out of bed until three in the afternoon.

“Providing you put the work in, it doesn’t mean it hurts any less when you have to play a couple of days later after a five-hour match – but I would not say it is impossible.”

That’s completely from what he told the Mail on Sunday.


senorita Says:

corr:
That’s completely different from what he told the Mail on Sunday.


jane Says:

btw, i agree that novak’s statement isn’t completely logical, which is clear because some people have been convicted of (are those the right words?) doping. but i think he means in general the sport is clean, not like it’s never happened that someone has been caught. of course he knows there have been cases.

maybe it’s relevant to remember where he was when asked about murray’s comments. he was at the laureus awards, where he’s an ambassador for the sport. what’s he supposed to do? start talking about how tainted the sport is? i got the impression he was trying to be positive. this is more from his statement:

“It’s tricky for tennis. There’s many stories that go around—betting, match-fixing, doping—[and] it seems the weight has come down on tennis. But I think it all comes down to anti-doping agencies, governing bodies—they need to come out with proof. If they don’t, it’s only rumors. I’m proud to be part of a sport that is clean.”

essentially it’s a call for evidence and not rumours. however, he does state the sport “is clean,” which he should have qualified by saying it’s “mostly” clean or something.

novak has said before he doesn’t care if he’s tested 20 or 30 times a year.


Green Lady Says:

assia, Andy mightve been talking specifically about the top 3, i dont know, as he didnt actually use those names?, the point is alot of players play long matches, and hes actually one of them too ….


RZ Says:

@Jane – it is definitely an unfair comparison and I can see why (and others) would consider it close to libel. I’m surprised this headline made it to a Washington Post article as they are not that sensationalist.

The part of the article I thought was completely absurd was where the author said that Agassi was arguably the GOAT. But really much of the article was absurd. The discussion is of doping and a lot of the “evidence” included has to do with recreational rather than performance enhancing drugs.


bojana Says:

Novak did the same as Federer for betting but MMT did not find Federer illogical then.He is first to attack BB and Novak, of course we know why.


elina Says:

You guys, I don’t take issue with Murray speculating in general about doping in tennis but I do take issue with his insinuations of who he obviously thinks it is.

How many five hour matches has he or any player played as he’s claimed they “often” do?

FOS IMO.


assia Says:

GL er which players win long matches against Murray? Which have been famous for winning back to back long matches in slams? I can think of 2 in particular who have had a habit of winning those and ‘not going away’ (his words). He’s stirred up a hornet’s nest where these words can now be used against 2 of the greatest players of all time. So excuse me if I take issue with that. Actually it’s a masterful technique to put the cat among the pigeons without naming names and then run away.


Daniel Says:

In a way Boris does like the spotlight, the obly other coach that gives as many declarations as he does is Uncle T. We didn’t see Lendl, Edberg, Annavone, not even Gilbert or Boletierribeing this much in evidence as Becker. Of coirse he is the coach of the reigning World Number 1, but even so, he sure does like to be in evidence. His coleagues formes tennis stars are way less vocal.


Humble Rafa Says:

The internet is full of stories that the Egg Lover sounds like Doper Armstrong. That’s funny as hell.


assia Says:

I also think Novak should be cut a lot of slack for what he said. He was in a very difficult position and chose to be diplomatic. That’s fair enough as he’s the world number one and the figure head for the sport. And a very classy guy to boot IMO. (A lot classier than Murray).


Green Lady Says:

assia OK fair enough ….


assia Says:

HR Yeah funny as hell I don’t think. Thanks Andy.


Green Lady Says:

assia sorry hit the submit button by accident, meant OK fair enough, its most likely Murray is indeed talking about his biggest rivals, but i still do believe he has a point, i have found it fishy that they dont seem to get tired after such long matches, and as much as i would like to believe our sport is clean, i dont believe it completely is sorry, and by the way i dont know if your new here, or have been here before with another monikor, but Rafael Nadal is my favorite player, and the one people accuse the most of doping, and i would be shocked and bitterly dissapointed if he were to be found doping, as i would with any of the players, but i wouldnt be entirely surprised as its the world we live in unfortunatly ….


jane Says:

ah, okay rz. thanks for clarifying. :)


assia Says:

GL I would be utterly astonished if either Rafa or Novak were doping. In fact I just don’t believe it for a second. There is a huge logical fallacy in Murray’s argument anyway as he too is famed for being extremely fit. If they are in the frame then so is he. Gradations of fitness at the very top between these athletes are tiny (I include Roger here) so saying one is fitter than another is pretty meaningless. I absolutely do not believe that any of the big 3 (Novak, Rafa and Roger) are dopers.
If you are a Rafa fan (who has endured so much spite and abuse on this issue) then I am very surprised that you have been defending Murray.


J-Kath Says:

To Thread Mates:
I think they’ve all got a right to their opinion – and I mean the PLAYERS – secondly, possibly the fans (although the fans don’t use a level playing field and argue about old articles, the length of a particular match, and who is so-called implying xyz).

There has been enuf tennis players officially called to account to indicate “dopers” exist – you all know their names.

Length of matches: I have offered a comment on this previously and I still believe it is not simply a case of Mr. X has had to play (or not play)5 GS rounds v Mr. Y but that the lack of a level playing field factor is something beyond the control of players, e.g. weather etc. (as said I mentioned this as a probability a bit more fully on a different thread.

Andy M. did not make his comments without being pressed; he did not say them just because he had been beat by Nadal, Nole and/or Fed. He’s friends with two of them. He was at Nole’s restaurant opening…he wasn’t beat the next day by Nole. As for Rafa, he is suing the French Sports Minister so why should Andy enter that fray.

I don’t care if you don’t like Andy, but watch this space – and the culprits will not be his main competitors. And why should he name people? By the time anyone follows it up they will most likely have cleared their habit.


Green Lady Says:

assia im defending the guy, because i think he has a point, the other three are more successful than he is, and i think thats exactly the point, and exactly the reason why people might find it fishy, wondering how the hell have these guys been so consistent for so many years ?, there are some cynical people around that will always ask that type of questions, especially the lesser players (no disrespect ), or Murray and Stan, who are amazing players, but again (no disrespect ), just below the top 3 tier ….


Green Lady Says:

J-Kath great post my dear ;-)) ….


assia Says:

GL Sorry but that is utterly illogical. If you follow that train of logic then all the greatest players are the most likely dopers as they have the greatest success. So Laver, Sampras, Borg, Lendl &tc are all in the frame as dopers along with the big 3??
Also I am getting confused with your moving the goalposts. ‘there are some cynical people around’ also seems to include you as you say yourself that it’s fishy and are therefore pointing the finger at your favourite player along with Novak and Roger.


Dave Says:

Why would Andy Murray be complaining about the guys that he has been beating in a 5 set match. They didn’t manage to get tired, but he still beat them anyway. I just couldn’t see him complaining about them. So that really only leaves 2 guys left. Rafa and Nole. The great thing is that Rafa and Nole will both use these comments as huge motivation and it will be interesting when if ever that Andy beats either of them again in an actual match. I think Andy shot himself in the foot for saying these comments. Even if this is how he genuinely feels, why give your main rivals more motivation? Not smart.


Dave Says:

If Novak and Nadal ended up dopping all of this time without getting caught and it ended up coming out in the open, I honestly wouldn’t need to watch tennis again. It would be like baseball is at this point, a joke. Baseball has lost all credibility because of this. Tennis would have the same issues. I wouldn’t believe that anyone wasn’t somehow getting an extra edge if this actually was true. So if what Andy is saying is somehow actually true and the top players are cheating, I’m done with tennis. Until there is actual proof of any of the top players doping, I will watch it. It’s about the top players and no one else. No one will pay attention if guys that never got to the top were the ones doping.


assia Says:

Good to see you here Dave. The amount of prevarication, double-speak, wilful ambiguity and obfuscation from some Andy defenders here is ridiculous. If people are going to defend him then defend him at the level of what he said, don’t pretend he said something quite different so that you can buck the argument.
If my favourite or rather favourites had said the same as Andy I would be annoyed with them as well.


senorita Says:

If the players are not expected to play 5 set matches every other day then why make slams best of 5 sets so the potentially have to win 7 best of 5 sets in 2 weeks? Obviously, the powers that be don’t think it’s impossible to have a day’s rest in between 5 set matches and still continue to play well, so what’s Andy’s problem?

There have been players who have struggled through the draw, winning 5 setters until the business end of the tournament, should they all be under suspicion?

Murray often fakes exhaustion often giving the impression that he can hardly stand up, apart from clutching various body parts, but always able to compete to the end. Murray s the King of gamesmanship.


Wog Boy Says:

Look who is coming here to call Boris narcissistic and other names, just for coming out to say what he should say as the coach of one of the players who Andy was aiming at in his interview, which honestly looks like he let a big stinky out and then left the room for others to suffocate. There is one very narcissistic player for sure, active one, but that poster will never ever point finger at him, but instead is always coming to say something on Nole, or member of family or team, something not nice.
I commend Boris for what he is doing for Nole on and off the court, and jealous people can only suffer and go green like a Grinch, even Grinch became good hearted person at the end so there is a hope for them tio.
One more thing, I can see few posters here are calling Boris on what he said about Muster when he lost to him in MC in five sets after being two sets up conviniently not mentioning what happened ti Muster day before. Muster almost failed to finish his match day before, spent all night in hispital on drip and yet got out of hospital stright to play Boris next day went two sets down and came back to win, any reasonable person would be suspicious, but “narcissistic” Boris is not allowed..maybe because he is the coach of The Best player in the world and is doing bloody good job with him!


Okiegal Says:

@Wog Boy^^^^

💩💩💩……the big stinky….😷……I refuse to breathe…..leaving the room! I laughed out loud on that one…..thanks, Wogi…..I needed a laugh!!😜


Wog Boy Says:

My pleasure Okie.


J-Kath Says:

I usually see Wogboy’s point of view but not on what he says about Boris – totally agree with MMT’s comment on that aspect.

Sorri Wogboy.


tennismonger Says:

Hilarious.

Yes, I remember the Becker/Muster affair like it was yesterday: Becker going for the second serve ace match point up resulting in a…double fault, Nick burying his head in his hands…and we know the rest.

Pot, meet kettle.

@ RZ – Yes, the “Agassi as GOAT” comment was a bit jarring in the WP article; have all the editors in the world been fired?


bojana Says:

Wog Boy,

We are 100% together on this one.I see the point but it is not surprise that other do not see it.


elina Says:

You guys, I for one applaud Becker for stepping in and speaking out for his player like Toni does for Nadal (as opposed to meek coaches afraid to say boo).

He is looking out for his player which is a coach’s job.


Gary Says:

Djokovic wasn’t on my suspicious list before, but not only is now on it, he’s made top ten.


Wog Boy Says:

“Djokovic wasn’t on my suspicious list before, but not only is now on it, he’s made top ten.”

That’s good to know, can you give us the names of the other nine?


James Says:

Djokovic’s statement actually makes me suspicious. He didn’t have to say that. But he did. What is HE hiding? He’s a marathon man too – and that too suddenly, after double digit retirements prior to 2011. And ya, I know, he puts it all to Gluten.

Same way Nadal makes me suspicious. So many times he has taken months, even six months off. Seems like the right amount of time to clear these things from your system. And then suddenly his knees are totally fine.

Both of these guys have shown super human stamina. Super human means its not human. Djokovic open just said – if you can’t prove it, its not there. Perhaps he knows his substances are ahead of the curve.


elina Says:

I know right James? Just look at Roger “Bad Knee Rules” Federer. Out for silent “surgery” for months and suddenly returns at 35 looking sharp as ever. He must be No 1 on that list of yours.


Jun Says:

He said this… he must have meant that.
Oh wait he said what?… well he probably meant, hmmm, nothing.

Keep them coming, folks! This is fun.

Andy and Novak are probably laughing their asses off right now. Boris, too.


jane Says:

ha ha wog boy. ;) yes, let’s hear the other 9!

elina, Becker also said positive things about fed, murray, and stan in his impromptu interview at the laureus awards, but he seemed to be especially complimentary of rafa and his recent monte carlo win.

for the record, nole didn’t have “double digit retirements prior to 2011.”


Okiegal Says:

This is all much ado about nothing….let’s call a truce! 😯


chrisford1 Says:

Margot Says:
Absence of proof is not proof of absence.

Donald Rumsfeld 2004 – The absence of discovery of the hidden WMD in Iraq is not proof of their absence.

MMT – Djokovic’s statement is illogical – the absence of proof of doping doesn’t mean there’s no doping.

—————–
Sorry, in terms of logic, Djokovic is the logical side to take.
The Margot, Rumsfeld, MMT side is the “true believer” side that argues that no amount of evidence will prove things they believe in striongly are wrong.
In law, this is called the Argument From Ignorance. A logic fallacy. Business wrestles with it it as well as science, military. Anywhere probability and stats come into play. Most have to get past the hunches, the convictions of some and call on Baye’s Theorem – essentially, if the coin flips go heads 500 times in a row it is logical given accumulating odds this is not a normal heads-tails coin, to assume you have a two-headed coin in play. But if you cannot look at the other side you never have absolute proof beyond any shadow of a doubt, that it is in fact a two=headed coin.
The failure to find “vast quantities” of WMD in Iraq is not absolute proof – just given evidence, it makes it extremely highly unlikely that undiscovered WMD stockpiles are out there.

Djokovic’s argument on proofs and in the absence of any proof, based on the accumulating test evidence, one must assume no big doping problem is likely by any reasonable standard – is the precise means you rebut an Argument From Ignorance.

It’s pretty clear Djokovic is a bright guy. Not that the others are dummies and many are fairy smart in tennis – (like Fed, Becker, Lendl, Gulbis, Bartoli) – but Djokovic is sharp, analytical, sometimes eloquent. Sometimes he steps in it, but usually what he says is on mark.
So far, extensive testing is showing no real pervasive doping problem in tennis. Until the proofs to the contrary come in from those making claims and the burden of proof is on the disputing parties – they are just rumors used to smear.

PS – James uses the Carl Sagan end-around the Argument From Ignorance.
Which is that lack of any evidence, any proof of alien life from signals analysis and astronomical observations – does not mean aliens aren’t out there. We may just be using bad tests.
In that crowd of “PEDs are rampant1!!” proclaimers – you always hear all the testing and independent test negative results mean nothing because ‘the tests don’t look for the secret new stuff only doctors know about”. (Which ignores that well paid doctors advise Olympis, NCAA, the sports bodies that have multimillion dollar contracts and teams worth billions of dollars. The testing authorities CAN, and HAVE tested on medical experts advice for new substances claimed to boost performance but not yet on any banned list, certain breakdown metabolites that would signal a new substance was in use with several athletes..They knew all about meldonium use for years, they were looking for it. And whether or not to ban it at the Olympics and other venues.)

The takeaway is until there is proof tennis or a certain athlete has a drug abuse situation- you must go on the premise it doesn’t. And look for others to start doing as Nadal is doing – sic lawyers on the accusers who have no proof to substantiate claims that otherwise are simple slander and about inflicting economic losses by slurs that damage reputations.


skeezer Says:

“know right James? Just look at Roger “Bad Knee Rules” Federer. Out for silent “surgery” for months and suddenly returns at 35 looking sharp as ever. He must be No 1 on that list of yours.”
What a p!ss poor pathetic accusation.
Jealous much?
Meanwhile, Gaels needs a stamina lesson. Workout more, party less.


Margot Says:

There’s not even “absence of proof” CF1, as quite a few players have been “done” in recent years.
But totally agree with Okiegal @ 11. 03.
Enough already.


Margot Says:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/apr/20/the-guardian-view-on-victoria-wood-funny-northern-female-ours#comment-72780288

And you guys and gals across the pond have probably never heard of her, but us Brits are incredibly sad at the mo. Tennis is only a game.
RIP Victoria.


Okiegal Says:

@Margot….u r right, had never heard of her, but she sounds delightful! Sorry for the loss of this great lady….yes RIP…..


J-Kath Says:

Yes, Victoria…rest and laugh.


senorita Says:

James Says:

“Same way Nadal makes me suspicious. So many times he has taken months, even six months off. Seems like the right amount of time to clear these things from your system. And then suddenly his knees are totally fine.”

Not according to the ITF:

ITF 2014 Doping Report: Roger Federer, Novak Djokovic Tested Over 14 Times, Nadal Over 11
by Tom Gainey | February 4th, 2015, 9:22 am

“Rafael Nadal, who missed a lot of time with injury, was tested 4-6 times during events and another 7 plus times out of competition. Serena Williams was similar to Nadal.”

http://www.tennis-x.com/xblog/2015-02-04/18347.php


Green Lady Says:

Margot yeah indeed sorry for the loss of our gal Victoria Wood, a true comedy icon, didnt actually know she was so ill, a very sad day indeed :-((….


Purcell Says:

Victoria Wood:
‘I’m on fire, with desire. I could handle half the tenors in a male voice choir.’
Rest in peace lovely lady.


Margot Says:

@ Purcell. Wonderful, so many gems we could fill tennisx but here’s another:
Susie Blakes, newsreader, “We’d like to apologise to viewers in the North, it must be so awful for you.”


Green Lady Says:

Margot lol ;-)) ….


Green Lady Says:

Okie @ April 21st 2.35am, if youve never seen Victoria Wood, i suggest you have a look on You Tube, you would love her, you have a similar sense of humour ;-)) ….


Green Lady Says:

^BTW Agree on the whole lets call a truce, as its much ado about nothing, Novak doesnt think tennis has a doping problem, but Andy does ??, or words to that effect, both are entitled to their own individual opinions, which happen to differ is all ^….


Tennisfan Says:

Djokovic has a knack for saying the wrong things during controversies lol. You would’ve thought he’d be more careful after the Indian Wells debacle.


Green Lady Says:

Margot did you see in the newspapers, at Sir Ronnie Corbetts funeral, on his coffin there was four candles lol priceless ?, i also remember on Spike Milligans tombstone it said, i told you i was ill ! ;-)) ….


bojana Says:

Tennisfan:Djokovic has a knock for saying wrong things during controversies.

No, he has knock because he is the best tennis player for long time now and it is hard for many to accept.


Van Persie Says:

^^ completely agrre with comment from 06:08 am


Wog Boy Says:

“Djokovic has a knack for saying the wrong things during controversies lol.”

Namely what did he say wrong?
He was spot on in both situations. He didn’t say anything different from what Roger said during AO which is “you can’t go around and throw accusations about match fixing if you don’t have a proof”but nobody came after Roger for saying that, even we know there match fixing is happening. Same juicing, you can’t go around and throw accusations unless you have a proof, basic principle of “inocent until proven guilty”.

Don’t worry Bojana and VP, that’s typical reaction of butthurted Roger fan, one of the most stupid comments on this thread.


Tennisfan Says:

Ha, I love it. People calling others “butthurt” should have a look in the mirror.It’s incredibly naive to think that just because no one’s been caught yet it means that tennis is completely clean. That’s not how the world works, especially if the stakes are as high as they are on the professional tour. Hence, that’s not the best thing to say during this kind of controversy, just like talking about hormones wasn’t the best thing to do during the IW controversy. That’s my opinion and you can take your defensive, unrelenting fanboying elsewhere. Also Wogboy if you possessed any comprehension skills you would realize Roger wasn’t saying the same thing as Novak- Roger was asking for proof in response to allegations, Novak was assuming the whole sport is clean because there’s no evidence otherwise.


Tennisfan Says:

Ha, I love it. People calling others “butthurt” should have a look in the mirror.It’s incredibly naive to think that just because no one’s been caught yet it means that tennis is completely clean. That’s not how the world works, especially if the stakes are as high as they are on the professional tour. Hence, that’s not the best thing to say during this kind of controversy, just like talking about hormones wasn’t the best thing to do during the IW controversy. That’s my opinion and you can take your defensive, unrelenting fanboying elsewhere. Also Wogboy if you possessed any comprehension skills you would realize Roger wasn’t saying the same thing as Novak- Roger was asking for proof in response to allegations, Novak was assuming the whole sport is clean because there’s no evidence otherwise.


Wog Boy Says:

Tennisfan,

You obviously don’t have a mirror, that’s the difference between you and me. You are butthurted and you know that otherwise you wouldn’t come with such a stupid comment after Nole since he said nothing wrong in either case as most people agreed on TX, even Sean agreed after IW, check the threads, and don’t be so defensive.


Green Lady Says:

Wogboy off topic, did you see it last night,LVC beating Merseyside rivals Everton 4-0, always great to see your favorite team giving its biggest rival a good hiding, YNWA FAN – BLOODY -TASTIC, YIPEE ;-))….


Wog Boy Says:

“It’s incredibly naive to think that just because no one’s been caught yet it means that tennis is completely clean.”

As far as I know, some had been caught, but you can’t accuse all because of few, not without a proof, same as for match fixing, what happened to your comprehensive skills, you are not doing well in that department and don’t be so defensive, Roger fangirl.


Tennisfan Says:

Wogboy I don’t think you even know what the word “defensive” means. Because the irony is it applies to you. Look on every Novak article on this site- you literally trash anyone who even slightly says something negative regarding him. It’s kind of sad- don’t you have anything better to do with your time? I thought we’d agreed to ignore each others’ posts. I don’t want to engage with someone as arrogant, close-minded and ignorant as you.


Wog Boy Says:

GL,

I haven’t seen the match, actually watching it right now on FOXsports still 0:0 after 33min, but checked the result this morning and was happy:)


Wog Boy Says:

Tennisfan

Thanks for compliments and don’t be so defensive..btw, by the mirror, you can find cheep one in “two dollar shops”,no?

One more thing, I’ll go after you when ever you rubish Nole, CAPISH??!!


Wog Boy Says:

^^ “buy the mirror” should say


Wog Boy Says:

GL,

Ignore my civilized conversation with Roger fangirl, this is more important. Specially for you, 95,000 Liverpool fans on the most sacred stadium in Australia singing YWNWA, ManU was here too but never had such reception, there is only one Liverpool FC, enjoy it:

http://youtu.be/KvYADPcqMXY


Jun Says:

Let’s just enjoy the tennis, and how historic this era has been…

From wiki…

Match record % W–L*
1. Serbia Novak Djokovic 82.83 714–148
2. Sweden Björn Borg 82.74 609–127
3. Spain Rafael Nadal 82.54 785–166
4. United States Jimmy Connors 81.84 1257–279
5. Switzerland Roger Federer 81.60 1069–241
6. United States John McEnroe 81.55 875–198
7. Czechoslovakia/United States Ivan Lendl 81.51 1071–243
8. Australia Rod Laver 79.58 456–117
9. United States Pete Sampras 77.44 762–222
10. United Kingdom Andy Murray 76.98 565–169
* minimum 450 wins


Jun Says:

Appreciate them while they’re still playing…We might not see another era as good as this one.

More from wiki…

Playing Top 10 Opponents

Match record % * W–L
1. Sweden Björn Borg 70.0 63–27
2. Serbia Novak Djokovic 67.6 167–80
3. Spain Rafael Nadal 65.6 139–73
4. Switzerland Roger Federer 65.3 198–105
5. Germany Boris Becker 65.1 121–65
6. Czech Republic Ivan Lendl 64.0 119–67
7. United States Pete Sampras 63.6 124–71
8. United States John McEnroe 56.9 83–63
9. United States Andre Agassi 54.8 109–90
10. United Kingdom Andy Murray 52.8 85–76
* minimum 50 wins


Green Lady Says:

Wogboy cheers for that, i have goosebumps, and tears in my eyes ;-)) ….

Jun and thanks for those stats, these guys are amazing ….


Jun Says:

The Big Four = The quadruple-S, Scotland, Serbia, Spain and Switzerland. This should be reason enough for a re-vote and make Scotland independent. :)


Dave Says:

Nole said nothing wrong in his comment. Until there is proof, it is clean. That’s how it works in life. You need proof. again, as I said earlier, no one is going to care if the players on the challenger tour or barely in the top 50 or top 30 are the ones doping. It’s the very top guys that are going to matter in the end. That’s why baseball records are not respected today. The home run records that were broken when homeruns were being hit at an incredible pace. Mark Mcguire, Sammy Sosa, Alex Rodriguez and Barry Bonds. These are some of the top players in baseball to play the game. There always has to be real proof. If there isn’t, why keep stirring the pot if your a player? This has been a tough year for tennis with so many distractions this year in the media. If Andy Murray has REAL proof, say something about it specifically. Say who it is specifically. And yes, Roger was saying the same thing. He believes the game is just as clean as Nole does. They are in agreement on that. He wants to see proof as well, or don’t say anything it all about it. It’s just one big distraction to the game itself. The sad thing is, the players shouldn’t have ever had to get involved or had to say anything about this. Other people should be doing there jobs properly to keep the sport clean.


Dave Says:

And in any topic that is ever released in all news around the world by almost any news broadcast, when have most stories been accurate? There is an insane amount of propaganda that goes on in the NEWS today. People always getting paid to say this or that. The media is always looking for a story. Always, and will go to any length to find it. If tennis is a dirty sport and everyone is doping, bring it out in the open with proof. And if that is the case, I will stop watching tennis. Until then, why believe all the stories that really aren’t getting into specifics?


J-Kath Says:

Jun …Thanks for the reminder….I had forgotten about the quadruple SSSS.

Independence for Scotland?
The EURO Referendum will decide that. The SNP are committed to staying in Europe. But, given the huge population of England, the English will decide the EURO outcome.


Tennisfan Says:

Dave I feel like you were maybe addressing some of your comment to me so I just want to clarify my point. The problem I have with the idea that no-one being caught somehow means the sport is clean is that there are so many reasons players might not be caught. I’ve learned about one of the methods they use to try and detect illicit growth-hormone (its an isotope-based method) and it has a lot of limiting factors which make it easy for athletes to get away with doping. The science is improving but its still not as stringent as should be. My point is that its disingenuous to make absolutist statements about a sport being completely clean just because players haven’t been caught doping. If Novak had stopped at saying that allegations shouldn’t be made without proof then I agree as well- but I think its problematic that he made a sweeping statement about the whole sport being clean. That’s the distinction for me between what Roger said and what Nole did. Roger didn’t say (at least to my knowledge) that there is no match-fixing happening in the sport- he just said that if people are saying its happening, then they should give proof. But if he had said the equivalent of Nole then I would think he’s wrong too. But I agree with you that people that make those accusations without proof just distract from the sport and should be able to back their claims.


MMT Says:

bojana: which statements about [match-fixing] from Djokovic and Federer are you referring to?


skeezer Says:

Right on @ 7:09. But this is the ever ongoing typical “jealous of Fed” statement from the St. nole man.


MMT Says:

chrisford1: The Argument from Ignorance is indeed a legal expression (argumentum ad ignorantiam), but it applies to Djokovic’s statement not mine: namely, that the absence of proof that there is doping means there is no doping. You have attempted to discredit my contention (which you’ve mischaracterized) but you have in fact discredited Djokovic’s.

My contention is that there is evidence that tennis is not clean – the case of Wayne Odesnik is a good one – but that doping controls DON’T CATCH people trying to cheat.

By your logic, and Djokovic’s (I might add), by putting your faith in doping controls which in the case of Odesnik proved to be woefully insufficient, and the case of so many other “caught” by doping controls to be uselessly draconian, there is in fact an incentive to make doping controls woefully insufficient, precisely to make valid the logical fallacy of argumentum ad ignorantiam.


Wog Boy Says:

What do we have here, cavalry is coming as a backup, the The Keeper of St Roger legacy is riding into the sunset.
BTW, I noticed The Keeper hasn’t congratulated to his fellow American Serena for winning the most prestigious sports award which is good for “tennis exposure “.
Let me guess why…of course, if he congratulated Serena he would have to congratulate to Nole too, his “second favorite”, since the news is on the one thread..


MMT Says:

bojana: Djokovic admitted to having been approached to throw a match, thus one could hardly conclude from that that he is contending that tennis has no match-fixing, which is what he concluded concerning doping.

I didn’t criticize Djokovic OR Federer for their statements about match fixing, because those statements made sense. Neither drew conclusions about the existence of match-fixing based on the absence thereof.

In other words I did not treat Federer and Djokovic differently when they said the same thing – that would be evidence of the same thing. I treated them each individually based on what the individually said. It is YOU who expects Djokovic to be treated the same for saying two different things.

In other words, no matter what he says in two different statements, your expectation or desire is for him to be treated the same – that is the very definition of a bias towards someone.


MMT Says:

Let me also correct your comparison with the search for WMD in Iraq – there was a search for WMD in Iraq by the UNSCOM, it was invasive and thorough and it discovered no WMD. I assume they were competent (i.e. they did everything they could to find WMD).

But if, after all that, following the invasion of Iraq, if the US had found WMD, would I STILL conclude that the searches were competent? I wouldn’t.

And that is precisely what I concluded about doping controls, given that they missed the Wayne Odesnik, and the fact that the only ones they seem to catch are people who have/had no intention of cheating.


MMT Says:

Tennisfan @ 8:39am: Couldn’t agree more.


elina Says:

The Rogerator is so easily summoned. (See below.)

“So far, extensive testing is showing no real pervasive doping problem in tennis. Until the proofs to the contrary come in from those making claims and the burden of proof is on the disputing parties – they are just rumors used to smear.”

Isn’t that what was said about cycling?

“My contention is that there is evidence that tennis is not clean – the case of Wayne Odesnik is a good one – but that doping controls DON’T CATCH people trying to cheat.”

Sharapova, Troicki and Cilic disagree.


Dave Says:

The Troicki case is not a fair case, because tecnically there was no proof. I used to teach a doctor English and asked him about the fear of blood or blood tests. I have had a fear of needles and blood tests and seeing blood from cuts since I was little. Some people find blood and cuts to be interesting and have no reaction whatsoever. It all depends on the person. If Victor was feeling light headed and asked for permission to do the test later, and they said yes, than no big deal. Cilic wasn’t taking anything that was actually helping him on the tennis court. Sharapova was taking this substance that wasn’t even banned until this year for so many years. These aren’t huge cases of doping really helping the players. Give me something like the top players are injecting themselves with epo for endurance constantly. Give me a case of something that significantly helps a player perform better and have more endurance in their matches. Give me something big. The cycling doping was huge. What they took helped so much, that you had to take it just to be competitive. We aren’t dealing with this in Tennis at this point. Unless it just hasn’t come out yet.


bojana Says:

MMT

No, MMN every thing You said to me is You.
If I remember Federer said:Give me the names of the tennis players who are betting.

Novak said almost the same and guess what You were firs to attack NOVAK.

Or we could go by Your words:Novak did not contend that tennis has mach fixing which is what he contended concerning doping.
I did not see Federer said that fixing existed and I did not see Novak said that doping is not exist.He is asking Andy and others when they accuse somebody to have the proof the same as Federer. You are much better in playing with words then me but truth is You will never say any bad thing about Federer but will be first to throw the stone to Nole even if they say the same thing.


Tennisfan Says:

@MMT

Cheers! I agree with your post @9:21 too


elina Says:

“Unless it just hasn’t come out yet.”

Such was my analogy to cycling before it all came out. Hope this helps.

bojana nailed it.


MMT Says:

bojana: Djokovic and Federer said the same thing about match-fixing and I didn’t criticize either of them. Name names, and I agree with that.

Djokovic did not say the same thing about doping – he said if there’s no proof, then the sport is clean. But Wayne Odesnik was doping and he wasn’t caught. Players are given soft bans and that information is not disclosed until/unless the ban becomes official.

These would constitute evidence that the sport is NOT clean, that you might NEVER have under certain conditions. Therefore, the conclusion that the sport is clean because there’s no evidence is illogical as chrisford1 (accidentally) pointed out with his argumentum ad ignorantiam.


Tennis Vagabond Says:

Margot summed it up best in the third post.
The other 100+ are just noise.


bojana Says:

MMT

Name names in my head means give the proof.
So Novak said give the proof that means give the names.
By the way I never said Novak is right and Federer is wrong.That is what You are doing.I said that You and other who can not accept that Novak is the best will always attack Novak no matter what he said.


Tennis Vagabond Says:

Meanwhile, actual tennis is being played…


gee Says:

To be fair, murray was amused & shocked that the retired, washed up roddick tried to be trim & fit while doing runs around the track in England.
Murray definitely was laughing at the weak players of 2003-2006, and he saw fed’s vulgar insult at him at the aussie open match.
He fears novak, not because he’s a jerk, but because he’s the best player & true pal.

Maybe if roddick had the sharapova dope, he could’ve had a real tennis career.
Maria was so helpless against Serena that she didn’t mind ignoring drug ban lists.


bojana Says:

Tennis Vagabond

I would say that You and Margot are right only if You could say that accusing others do not make You innocent.


Tennis Vagabond Says:

bojana, if it makes you happy, consider it said!


Van Persie Says:

TV,

That is what Andy achieved lately…only noise.


Tennis Vagabond Says:

Actually, Andy won Davis Cup, was a finalist in the most recent Slam, won 2 Masters last years, got married and had a kid. You would have to be a pretty high achiever to consider being the second best in your field in the world, while starting a family, ‘just noise’, but sure.

I’m not even an Andy fan, but it seems a strange outlook on life to consider anyone outside 1 person IN THE WORLD a failure.


ratcliff Says:

Van Persie did you see Sascha’s match v Jaziri?

I missed it.


Van Persie Says:

you are right, but he haid higher expectations, I guess…no GS since 2013, therefore more noise then good results.
I do nkt judge him for this noise, he gotta let the frustration out…if it helps him, he should do it more often.


ratcliff Says:

Oops – wrong username for Tennis-x – ratcliff is jalep


Vami Says:

@ Dave 10.32
Spot on. It is ridiculous to compare Shitstrong and Sharapova and what they’ve been taking but for simple minded people everything is on the same level.

I mean, this is another worthless topic while we’re waiting on the next tournament. It’s a click bait and nothing else. Novak was asked an ugly question (no-win situation) and he replied (and English is not his first language). Whatever he said would be attacked by certain people regardless, he simple couldn’t win this one.

Andy was under totally different circumstances when he was asked a similar question. And he didn’t handle it well, unless he can prove or is willing to try to prove that people that beat him take something he better shut up.

It’s different when I say that Nadal is a PED machine. My opinion is worthless to the world, it’s only mine and a lot of folks would not agree with me. And I don’t have any proof either (but it’s fun to say it). Andy on the other hand may actually know something but all he does is to act as a pussy and sore looser. Well, I do feel sorry for him for losing to the PED machine the other day, go figure.


Van Persie Says:

Ratcliff,

Have seen only the results,…was at work. Have not seen any match from him this week :(


Van Persie Says:

I knew you are Jalep ;)


jalep Says:

VP
I’ve not been able to watch any of his matches either but glad got the Birthday win vs Bellucci.

Was hoping he’d make QF’s this week.


bojana Says:

Thank You Tennis Vagabond,not that I am happier but I think that is right.


MMT Says:

bojana: Djokovic didn’t say name names – he said, “…as long as there is not proof[s] that somebody is doping, the sport is clean.” That ignores the very real possibility that:

1) there is proof that is being concealed or
2) the doping controls are insufficient.

For this reason alone, his statement is illogical and more importantly, naive. By this logic. the weaker the doping controls (and thereby the fewer drug cheats identified) the cleaner the sport is. I don’t even think he believes that, but that is the logical extension of his statement, and that’s why it’s being criticized…by me anyway.

That Novak is the best tennis player in the world has no bearing at all whatsoever on the logic of his statement – maybe it does to you, but I would argue this compromises your interpretation. I suffer from no such compromise, because I don’t give a rat’s who says it – if it doesn’t make sense (whether it’s Djokovic, Federer or anyone else for that matter) I criticize.


Van Persie Says:

I was also happy for him yesterday, and surprised…Belucci is good on clay. Was sure he could beat Jaziri today, perhaps he had a party last night :)…Tbh, Do not know, how he played today


MMT Says:

Here’s I would have said it, if I were Djokovic:

This is professional sports, and there’s a lot of money and fame at stake, so there is an incentive for people cheat and/or profit from that. For this reason I think it’s important, not only that we have controls in place to prevent this, but supervision and review to ensure that it is effective, and transparency in the process to avoid the appearance of impropriety.

That’s why I think it is reckless to make generalized claims of cheating without specific evidence, because in the absence of specifics, the integrity of the entire sport is unnecessarily, and I think unfairly, called into question. That doesn’t do any of us any good.

If there is evidence, it should be brought forward, and where that evidence is compelling, those identified should be punished severely, but in the absence thereof, we have to be careful with accusations and how they are treated.


Van Persie Says:

RIP Prince


Van Persie Says:

It’s raining purple…


jane Says:

goodbye sweet prince; may choirs of angels … :’ (


jane Says:

mmt: “Here’s I would have said it, if I were [insert x person]”

wow, i can think of about a hundred things to put in this equation for many different people.

but, you know, we aren’t them.
and we weren’t and will never be in their circumstances.
and that can make it really comfortable … for us.

it’s always fun to play “what if” though.


J-Kath Says:

Jaziri won today.


J-Kath Says:

Yes, Rest with Music.Prince. Very Sad.


Tennis Vagabond Says:

Jane, if I were you, I would have said it differently. Probably in a lower voice also, though I am going out on a limb a bit with that.


J-Kath Says:

“World anti-doping Agency founding President, Dick Pound dismisses claim tennis clean.”

Second half of the article: “Pound also rounded on football.”

stv.tv/sport/1351457


jane Says:

^ careful it doesn’t break, TV


jane Says:

dick pound, it’s difficult to take anyone seriously with that name.
seriously.


Van Persie Says:

Exactly: Wada and ITF is authorised to say if Tennis players are clean or not. Andy and Novak are not in charge with that


Van Persie Says:

As long as nothing is made public, Novak has the right to believe that tennis is clean


bojana Says:

MMT
I said what I think You said what You have, neither change the point.I will stop here.


J-Kath Says:

We can call him Dollar if you like Jane…(He’s not on my Xmas card list)

PS: Not too comfortable an article for anyone….possible footballers get the “hardest cheese”.


Tennis Vagabond Says:

I had to watch Dick Pound speak at my brothers graduation- I think he was principal or chancellor of McGill U at the time. Man, that guy makes Ben Stein look like a dynamo!


Daniel Says:

Bellucci cracks under pressure, give on him long time ago. Can’t recall a single tuff match where he come out on top.


Daniel Says:

Tennis is not clean, Daniel Korelev and many other have being banned form the sport that is the proof. Also we got the Agassi case and many others.

Djoko just happened to respond a question in a wrong way, maybe not being able to say properly what he wanted to say, maybe he feels that nowadays tennis is cleaner, but his choice of word was a dichotomy in itself, no sport is clean, period.

And I believe everybody here agree with it. The rest is just noise as some dislike a few, some will protect their favorite regardless, and use the easy way answer: If you don’t like may player anything you say is discredit; but this is a two way street because anything said by the ones who blind defend one said is discredit as well. So…

Tomorrow Nadal and Fognini resume their recent rivalry and I am very curious to see if Fabio will come out to play and or if the “new old Nadal” will allow him to bother him.


Okiegal Says:

Rafa will come out nervous……there is something about Fabio’s game that is a real aggravation for Rafa……..the old Rafa better show up imo!

🐂🐂🐂


Green Lady Says:

R.I.P Prince, Purple Rain was one of my favorite all time songs :’(( ….


Green Lady Says:

Tennis Vagabond @12.45pm fantastic post ….


Green Lady Says:

Okie yeah completely agree with your post, BTW did you see my earlier post, the one about googling Victoria Wood ? ….


jalep Says:

+1 Daniel
4:15 pm

The Night Prince Walked On Water
http://www.mtv.com/news/2871506/prince-super-bowl-walked-on-water/

RIP 🌈☮💃
What I’ll remember most…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYVOrzv61Yg


Green Lady Says:

Jalep many thanks for that loved the guys music ….


jalep Says:

Even more apropos 😇

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emq3NFnL4kI

Get ready to get up an’ dance, GL
My pleasure…


Green Lady Says:

That videos not there im afraid though Jalep, anyway i never found Prince to be all that good looking, but he was as sexy as hell, if that makes sense ? ;-)) ….


jalep Says:

Video not there for Let’s go Crazy? GL?

Yep, sexy as hell, but I’d never admit it!


jalep Says:

Maybe here? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJDuGjMwsow

But go to youTube and search for the original recording of Let’s go crazy – It has him talking with the organ music intro…it’s the best! Party like it’s 1999, too.


jalep Says:

Prince interview with Larry King re: his name change 😎 dig this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4NOBr9Kdf4


Green Lady Says:

Jalep many thanks, got it now, just watched the videos, sexy as hell, but id never admit it !, err sorry but you just did !, LOL sorry couldnt resist ;-)) ….


Okiegal Says:

@GL……No…..I missed it…..had been out a lot….I will track it down……


Green Lady Says:

Okie you will love her ;-)) ….


J-Kath Says:

Margot

21 Sept. Andy is playing at SSE Hydro, Glasgow (holds about £10,000 people). He plays Monfils and then Andy & Jamie play Monfils and Henman. Ticlets £20 to £25. Is a charity event for Young People’s development and for children across the world.

The article is on ATP if you are interested.

PS: Evidently Andy and Boris have had a wee chat and they are “friends”? again……or should I say reconciled????


MMT Says:

bojana: that’s fine, but I would like to say that this is the second time you’ve accused me of commenting out of “fandom”. In the other thread, where you leveled that accusation, I gave a list of links to occasions I’ve criticized Federer and received in response, very similar responses to what I’ve gotten here.

The only thing that changed was the name of the player being critiqued.


MMT Says:

“Wog Boy Says: Look who is coming here to call Boris narcissistic and other names, just for coming out to say what he should say as the coach of one of the players who Andy was aiming at in his interview, which honestly looks like he let a big stinky out and then left the room for others to suffocate.”

Becker is a narcissist in my opinion but the objectivity of his response to Murray’s comments is hypocritical given that he himself made similar accusations against Muster. If he is simply saying what a coach should say, rather than an objective comment, then we can all disregard it altogether.

And if your previous comment about the cavalry was directed at me (hard to tell because the reference is obtuse), then I would point you out to the same thing I said (directly) to bojana: I critique when I think critique is called for. I don’t do it based on who says it.

And Murray made no reference to Djokovic – I myself was thinking of other players, not him, because his improvements (as far as I can tell) were technical. I’m not convinced that his fitness issues weren’t exacerbated by his technical limitations. As such I’m not convinced that the improvement in his results over the last 5 years, are exclusively down to his improved fitness.

But I think it’s telling that you, like Becker, seemed to have jumped on the insinuation that the only player who fits that bill is Djokovic. In all likelihood it is down to your bias towards him. Djokovic, for his part, didn’t take the bait in this comment at the Laureus awards. He referred to the sport, which suggests he may not have taken it personally: a good sign for someone who isn’t cheating is that they don’t take obtuse insinuations of cheating personally.

You, on the other hand, jumped in with two feet. You should have (wittingly or otherwise) more faith in your beloved player.

And as for that ridiculous point about not congratulating Serena, presumably because I would HAVE to congratulate Djokovic for winning the same award? I am not in the habit of congratulating players on a blog for a few reasons, not the least of which because I’m guessing he’ll never read it. Nor am I in the habit of congratulating their fans – after all, what on earth did they do to be congratulated?

Your attempts to discredit me continue to be vapid and they only point back to you own myopic view of Djokovic, which even he doesn’t seem to share.


bojana Says:

Hi MMT,

It look like You do not like to be critiqued but You like to do that to other people.I will do that every time that I see things differently then You.


Margot Says:

@Kath
Yes, saw that. I think Andy’s spreading himself far too thinly this year, but there you go. Realistically has only a couple of years left to get another slam, needs to make the most of his limited time.


Margot Says:

@MMT
@ paragraph 7. Such a good point and while I always do it, I always wonder why I do it. It is nonsensical if you think about it.
But it does seem to be a blog convention, not just here.


jalep Says:

MMT’s Paragraph 7 describes something that does bug me. It’s become a habit to congratulate winner and fans – not natural for me. I’m not that nice in reality. I do it out of peer pressure here. Whether I do or don’t congratulate — I feel guilty. 😄 ah, now that I got that out.


chrisford1 Says:

MMT – Again you miss key detail. Boris reacted because Andy’s remarks as reported could slight Nole, but he specifically made reference to Murray appearing to attack and disparage Rafa.

As for Djokovic, he is a champion and speaking as one in defending his sport as clean with a solid testing regimen.(A sport which has come under attack on doping, match fixing, gambling). And made a “some people hear/say” attack on the sport as with a serious PED issue – and Boris and Nole took the contrary view (As did Federer, and obviously Rafa is not happy Andy’s remarks appeared to come right after Rafa whipped his butt in the Monte Carlo semis.)

It comes down to what Djokovic said defending his sport, and people in it, as good champions do. Which is – If there is a problem, given all the constant testing, where are the culprits?? Lack of such proofs of dirty top players with positive tests leads Djokovic to conclude pro tennis is a pretty clean endeavor.


chrisford1 Says:

PS – Some remarks from the Laureus athletes on Djokovic.

“A very poised and articulate young man. A natural leader and thinker.”
“As a champion, he represents his sport as well as Federer does, having met both.”
“Impressed how he came across. No ego. More interested in Niki Lauda and others here. Very pleasant and personable guy. Perfect for the Award and perhaps being on the Committee some day.”


Daniel Says:

Also not a fan of congratulation fan and stuff, only congratulate the players when they win something big, when a big achievement is accomplished., more like out of respect because we do know players don’t read this blog, or do they?!


MMT Says:

bojana: I have no problem with critique – critique what I say (or do), not your own biased mischaracterization of it.


MMT Says:

“chrisford1 Says: MMT – Again you miss key detail. Boris reacted because Andy’s remarks as reported could slight Nole”

I addressed that in detail – Murray’s comments could have been about anybody. It is only one’s myopia concerning Djokovic would one assume he was referring to Djokovic. Becker and Wog Boy especially.

And whether Murray called out Djokovic or not (he did not), the last person who should comment about the unfairness or dangers of calling someone out without evidence is someone who did exactly the same thing when was on tour – i.e. Becker. One of the many transgressions in his career, but I digress.

And you have missed the salient point that you yourself have made – just because the testing doesn’t elicit any “evidence” doesn’t mean the sport is clean. Those two things are not mutually inclusive. The testing could be flawed (Odesnik) or the evidence withheld (Agassi…although that drug was not performance enhancing, so it was a silly test to begin with). And by his logic, there is an incentive to have both so that people conclude (incorrectly I might add) that the sport is clean.

That was your “argumentum ad ignorantiam”.


J-Kath Says:

Chrisford 1

I very much doubt that Nole is desperate to get on to the Committee…but you did say some day (perhaps some day 7 years from now).


elina Says:

Congrats to jalep, cf1, margot, bojana, MMT wogboy, J-Kath, Green Lady, Okiegal, Giles, TV, VP, jane, vami, mmt, nits, roy, jalep, markus, gee, django, senorita, Sean, staff, Tom Gainey, assia, HR, anki, RZ, Dave, Nadal, Roger, Andy, Stan, sponsors, officials and all the ATP/WTA players.

Hope I didn’t forget anyone.


Margot Says:

And elina can I congratulate you on your congratulations.


RZ Says:

@Jalep – what about commiserations when our favorite players lose? (I’m just stirring up trouble)


Daniel Says:

elina, me;-)


elina Says:

And to those who think clay is one-dimensional and all surfaces are too slow and homogenized, I give you the best writer in tennis, Mr. Steve Tignor…

“Clay tennis is often derided as a one-dimensional style that favors grinding consistency rather than daring creativity; hence the term “dirtball.” But watching the men shift from the hard courts of Miami to the clay of Monte Carlo, it’s clear that in reality clay extends the game into three-dimensions. Where hard-court tennis is mostly a straightforward clash of serves and ground strokes, on clay a more varied game is needed. As Simon and Dimitrov showed, on dirt you’re more likely to see drop shots, squash shots, lobs, and cat-and-mouse exchanges at the net. The proficient clay-courter knows how to use all four corners of the court.”

Nailed it yet again Steve. Shamoooon to you Sir.

http://www.wimbledon.com/en_GB/news/articles/2016-04-22/surface_issues_in_praise_of_the_clay_game.html


Green Lady Says:

I always send congrats to my favorites rivals, and i always conratulate their fans, but i make sure i single out, only the ones i like and get on with, and i dont really know why i do it either ?, probably out of politeness, or because its a nice thing to do ? ….

And i do commiserate the losers too ….


elina Says:

No Daniel, I said people I FORGOT to mention but commies to you. ;-)


bojana Says:

MMT

I see.You think You are always right,You never mischaracterized,You know what is right to say what is wrong.I am just thinking what You are doing ,this is wrong place for person like that.


jane Says:

i guess i missed why i am being congratulated but thanks! i’ll take it and return it in strides. :)

for novak fans someone did write an interested rebuttal to that libellous – or close – washington post piece. it’s here if you’d like to read it

https://sportsguyweb.wordpress.com/2016/04/22/washington-post-sportstennis-piece/

also it’s nolefam day :)

but MOST IMPORTANTLY – it’s earth day and nothing is more important than our gorgeous planet. we should be kinder to it!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cgfa_EbUYAEckSe.jpg


jane Says:

MMT, as far as i can tell, the media were the ones who yoked what andy said about suspicious 6 hour matches to novak. i mentioned here before that andy said the comments after his semifinal loss to rafa who was also in that ONE 6 hr long match with novak. so was andy implying them? one? both? he said he wasn’t speaking of specific individuals. however, there were immediately articles in the guardian, the daily fail, etc that linked andy’s comments to novak, and of course novak was immediately asked about those comments at the laureus awards – whereas, strangely none of rafa, stan, fed, or others were asked about andy’s comments – only novak. this is strange especially because that rafa won monte carlo so was doing plenty of press. there were opportunities to discuss this with other players but only novak was asked as far as i know.


Markus Says:

I don’t understand why some can be so bothered with the way others post especially if such posts are not at all negative or derogatory towards anyone. And why the compulsion to insult a person who’s only being nice?


Wog Boy Says:

MMT,

It looks that you are narcissistic person, very in love with yourself and your linguistic and writing acrobatics, trying to put other people down by showing your superiority in writing skills, which is not hard to do against Wog Boy or Bojana whose English is second language but not so easy to do against likes of CF1 or mat4 (even english is his second language). So get of your high horse, arrogance can take you only so far, I was not referring to you in my post, read it again and you might find out who I was referring too, but somehow I think you know my post wasn’t for you but needed the reason to address me. Don’t bother replying, you keep repeating yourself time and time again trying to convince us how good and witty writer you are, you might be good but too dry and boring for my liking, but don’t worry, you will have plenty of support on TX as long as you keep rubishing Nole, like your fellow fedfanatic whose my original post was for, the post that you “mistakenly” thought is for you.


Wog Boy Says:

jane,

Thanks for sharing tha article, I really liked it.


J-Kath Says:

Jane
Can understand why you are highly irritated, I would be too, but take it as a compliment…is it not part of the equivalent of being “top of the class” – I seriously think it is all over and done with- AT LONG LAST (for 5 minutes- till the next nonsense arrives).

Next Nonsense is: Why is Nole signalling he won’t play Davis Cup ….and this is followed by Andy Murray’s hesitation to do so also?


Wog Boy Says:

This is what Andy said just now, I have Serbian version so I’ll translate:

“Pričao sam i sa Borisom (Beker) i Novakom, i između nas nema nikakvih problema. Treniraćemo zajedno iduće sedmice u Madridu”

Andy:
“I spoke with Boris and Novak, there are absolutely no problems between us. We will practice together next week in Madrid”.

JK,
Where did you get from that Nole is in doubt playing DC, I can’t find it in Serbian news, but I can tell you one thing, if the play and kill each other they are just doing favour to others, don’t forget it is in the middle of July, HC season. I don’t know how Nole can get away with not playing since it is in Belgrade and on just recently open (few days before Serbian election;) Tasmajdan stadium.


jane Says:

j-kath,
to your first point, sadly with novak it’s never over. he was yoked directly to the match fixing story, to the “sexism” scandal” and now to doping innuendo. it never ends. this is not the case with the others. probably the closest would be rafa, for having innuendo thrown his way, but novak is an outsider in a lot of ways, regardless of being #1, so he’ll always face more flak.

it’s just dumb that he and becker were asked about this – and only them – at the laureus awards of all places. and yet the other coaches and players weren’t. just as lance armstrong’s words are being linked to novak, so were raymond moore’s. it’s standard fare that nole fans are used to.

“i i were novak” i would plead the 5th every. single. time. and just continue to let his racquet do the talking. ;) but he is a jovial, giving sort, and he always willingly answers questions only to see them negatively spun against him.

and no. i don’t believe in the illuminati. i don’t believe in chemtrails. i don’t believe in conspiracy theories generally.

but i do believe a lot of tennis media is biased. there, i said it.

as to your second point, well that makes complete sense to me. they have such heavy schedules as it is this year! probably novak will play if murray does or vice versa – or maybe not. but i get it. they have wimbledon, 2 north american masters, us open and olympics all jam packed. moreover, to go from grass, back to clay for the rubber, and then over to hard, that’s a lot of surface switching in a short amount of time, which could be slightly dangerous – i.e., if injuries are more likely to happen in surface switches.

sorry for my long-winded response. :O !


Purcell Says:

Read this a few hours ago and yes MMT, para 7 caught my eye. Paras 123 etc etc are pretty good too.


Purcell Says:

6:03 Hyde
6:14 Jekyll


chrisford1 Says:

The timing of the Davis Cup confrontation between Serbia and UK is awful. For Djokovic and Murray, the nations – I believe Olympics has to be a higher priority. Disagree with Wog Boy on that. Something has to give in the schedule. Djokovic has already said Olympics singles and doubles (with Zimonjic) is a priority of his on par with the Slams.
The ideal solution would be for Andy and Nole to agree both will pass this stage of Davis Cup. Let a fairly evenly matched “B Team” go at it. That preserves both for Olympics and US Open, and both would be available for later on with DC, depending on who wins this stage….

J-Kath, I agree. Down the road, Nole is a good fit for Laureus Committee. Certainly not during his playing days.


Wog Boy Says:

CF1,

You have nothing to disagree with me, I didn’t say he should or should not play, just that I don’t see how he can get away with not playing without damaging his status in Serbia and wider in the Balkans. I know for the fact that the people from few surrounding countries are pulling all possible strings to get the tickets for that match. I am absolutely sure that more or less most of the tickets already have the owners. They might keep 1K ticket for public just to make few people happy and not to cause the riots. The moment they open ticket office the remaining tickets will be sold. The atmosphere is already building. I just can see him not playing unless he is really injured which nobody wants.


Wog Boy Says:

^^^ “I just can’t see him not playing” should say


MMT Says:

bojana (and Wog boy): I don’t mischaracterize things with intent or malice. Nobody’s perfect, but I’ve never done that intentionally. And I have admitted I was wrong about Marian Vajda and Becker as coaches, they’ve both left their mark on Djokovic’s career.

Unless they’re patently hypocritical (like Becker) I don’t discredit people as counter argument – to me that’s a failure of rhetoric, and as Wog boy (laboriously) noted, my writing is one small measure of vanity I allow myself.

But that’s precisely what you and Wog boy have done here and on that other thread about Srdjan Djokovic. I find it ironic that you give yourself the right to show me the door, when you (and Wog boy) put me in your crosshairs in the first place. Well you reap what you sow.

So, fasten your seatbelt.


MMT Says:

Wog boy: if you don’t like my writing that concerns me very little. If you attack me, or try to discredit me, do so with your shield up, because that I won’t accept that and won’t back down from that. So strap in.

And your diatribe against me does nothing to make more salient or more logical your concurrence with Djokovic’s statement, which was overreaching and counter productive.

Call for more testing, better testing, harsher punishments, more transparency and for names to be named. Those all make perfect sense.


bojana Says:

MMT

I did not show You any door,but it is obvious You are very angry,and You are threatening me.
You were discrediting Srdjan and Novak that is why I started writing the comments.
When people start threatening others to me that is the worst thing and I have to say to You only:GOOD BYE FOR EVER.


Wog Boy Says:

“So strap in.”

Did you mean “strap on”? No I don’t need strap on, I can do you without strap on, I am properly equipped.


Wog Boy Says:

Bojana,

That’s what he wants, to get you upset, just ignore old fart.


jane Says:

mmt, regarding novak’s statement at the laureus awards? i still say context is very important here. he was not asked about this after a match; he was asked about this at a place of celebration in sports and success therein. it wasn’t a work day. it’s like asking him about doping at a party – same with becker. both were put on the spot there and then. it was an odd situation.

why ask none of the other players? coaches? isn’t it kind of odd? why did the media single out only novak?

but back to novak’s statement: you said “Call for more testing, better testing, harsher punishments, more transparency and for names to be named.”

imo, novak’s statement did call for “more transparency and names,” essentially, here:

“…it all comes down to anti-doping agencies, governing bodies; they need to come out with proofs, if they don’t it’s only rumours.”

in previous interviews, within more appropriate contexts, he’s also called for further testing, and so on. he also slammed lance armstrong back in 2013.

now you may criticize novak’s logic, but overall, considering the context and circumstances, he only might’ve corrected his statement to say “we need to do our best [/more] to keep the sport clean”. but that’s the “if i were…” game, and it’s easy to say. novak was there as an ambassador of the sport which is maybe why he tried to keep things positive.

as for becker, you may loathe the guy, but i reiterate that he did not link murray’s comments to novak, and nor did novak’s fans – the press did that. here’s part of what becker said:

“There’s been rumors about Rafa [Nadal] over the years, there have been to a lesser extent about Novak,” “I find that incredibly disrespectful to both players. They are legends, they are super athletes, they live and breathe tennis. “I would find it equally disrespectful to Andy if somebody claimed he only won Wimbledon because he took a pill. I think that’s wrong and that shouldn’t be allowed. So that was my comment and I stand with it because it’s about the integrity of tennis. I felt that I needed to defend it a little bit.”

so Becker isn’t saying “murray should not have said this **about novak**”

he is saying “murray shouldn’t say this about tennis without proof” because he feels it hurts the sport, which he cthinks is “clean” (at least in terms of the top guys he mentions in his full statement).

Becker was talking more generally about potentially slanderous allegations that have been made in the press about a guy like rafa and now perhaps novak — how he feels it’s disrespectful.

and isn’t he right? i mean, unless a player is caught should the media be implying someone is guilty of doping? isn’t that kind of a low journalistic ploy?

you do your research – fully – and you provide a well-researched piece. instead we have tennis writers comparing the players to “Caped crusaders” and villains from marvel comic books – i am not kidding! this passes for “journalism”.

moreover, why do only some players face such innuendo and not others who also play very long matches and who are even older than than, say, rafa and novak?

there’s so much going on here that’s it’s tough to unpack. but it’s not just a simple black and white, bad logic thing. there is all sorts of context and bias worthy of analysis.


bojana Says:

Wog Boy,

He did not upset me I just do not need to communicate with people like him.


MMT Says:

jane: I will concede one thing – Becker’s response did seem to come on top of Murray’s comments, almost as though he had been asked for comment before publishing. I still think he’s a hypocrite, and separately it was bad PR to respond the way he did. But that’s what happens when you love having a microphone in front of you, which I believe for a lot of reasons he does.

And interestingly, the Daily Mail does appear to have removed the article with Murray’s comments and replaced it with comments about Sharapova, so perhaps I’ve underestimated Becker again.

For his part Djokovic answered those questions generically (which was good) but the logic of his conclusion left something to be desired. I suspect Nadal and Federer have not been in pressers since then, whereas Djokovic was at the center of the sports glitter/glamor of the Laureus awards where it seems only natural that he’s asked about it.

But I reiterate that I don’t think Djokovic is doping – he’s fitter and stronger than ever before, but I think that’s normal for a player his age.


jane Says:

fair enough mmt. frankly, i agree that novak seems very fit. as for strength i am not 100% sure. i think he’s lost a little weight and there are some rumours that he’s vegan now. my impression is that he’s a very fastidious and professional man, but i hope he doesnt take his diet/regime too far. he must have people who ensure he gets the nutrition he needs. and at least he is very flexible through all the yoga.

as for whether the others have faced press, you could be right about fed, but rafa definitely could have been asked about the comments as they were made after the murray-rafa semi and rafa went on to win the event – thus plenty of opportunity to ask him about it.

maybe becker does like to hear himself talk (perhaps a little too much), but i do feel that’s the case with many of those ex-players, esp the ones who went on to become commentators, like j-mac and wilander, too, for e.g. they all have big egos.

anyhow, i think i’ve talked this subject out.

off to watch some hockey!


Van Persie Says:

Lol..it was pretty clear for me to whom WB adressed with his post from 21 Apr. 09:16.
MMT misunderstood it, like he “understands” so good what tennis players mean. Waste of time to read MMT posts


Van Persie Says:

MMT’s posts


django Says:

Jane
Yes Nole has it harder than anyone else and don’t forget they conveniently forgot to show his tribute to hewitt at AO. When they asked Nole about it he said in the presser that he made a tape for it but doesn’t know why it wasn’t shown.
Then the transcript with that answer was mysteriously deleted.


Okiegal Says:

@Wog Boy 10:25

Strut you son of a gun, strut! 🐴>>>>stud horse…
😊😊 …..Skeezer sent you a 🐐 for old times sake and here’s more 🐂💩 from humble Rafa! Cheers from 🆗 🍻!


Jun Says:

To take literally what somebody said in a second language is bizarre and a head-scratcher. Really. Word by word in a second language.

If you don’t like the person, just say it. It’s your opinion. But to belabor this and to continue to dig yourself a deeper hole trying to look like you don’t dislike the person is comical and sad.

Enough already!


J-Kath Says:

Just returned to this thread…. but apologies to anyone who thinks I’m ignoring them…(time differences between UK and elswhere)

everybody has moved on now so will move on too.


jalep Says:

What’s up with elina? 😂 you go girl, 💃


MMT Says:

“You were discrediting Srdjan and Novak that is why I started writing the comments.”

To discredit means to discourage taking someone seriously in one text because of something they’ve done or said in another. I didn’t discredit Srdjan, I criticized his specific comments at messianic. I didn’t discredit Djokovic, I criticized his comments as illogical.

But somehow you take that as an attack on them that you need to defend by doing what? Discrediting me as a fanatic who’s just out to get those two.

Why don’t you try to articulate a problem with specifically what I said – argue the point, rather than the person.


elina Says:

Congrats to Van Persie for knowing who Woggers was obviously referring to.

Commiserations to MMT.


Van Persie Says:

Lol Elina, you are on fire today
Thanks for the congrats :)


jane Says:

true django: that was so… weird! (not to mention the name spelling.)

elina, lol @12:21. i get it; i read up the thread.


Wog Boy Says:

jane,

Really funny, AO officials didn’t know how to spell five times AO champion name, tell me about that:) ..and match fixing hysteria aiming at who..?;)


Jun Says:

We congratulate the winning player for winning a match.

We congratulate the winning player’s fans in a tennis forum such as this, as we would in any social setting.

We try to be nice even/especially in defeat, because that’s what most people feel is the right thing to do.

Sportsmanship it is called, because even though we aren’t the sports-men/women in this setting, we associate with our faves and feel/share their joy in victory and their agony in defeat.

Plus… the top players, with their sportmanship, are great role models for young kids. One more reason to appreciate this tennis era.


Jun Says:

Or we can all be sore losers… No thanks.

Congrats and commies to all!


Wog Boy Says:

Yes, it is called nice manners, or (le) bon ton as we called it growing up in Serbia.
For example, my grandmother use to smack me with the wooden spoon ever single time I put my elbows on dining table saying “to nije po bon tonu” meaning “bad manners” or if I write my birthday or New Year card (we didn have Christmas cards at the time since God was executed in 1945) it was must to put your name last (since you are writing it) and all females first, because “”to je po bon tonu” or “that’s nice manners” as my grandmother would say, and don’t even think of not obeying her rules, you ears would be ringing for a next few days, she always had that big wooden cooking spoon in her hands, and was mighty quick to use ..not just for cooking…


Margot Says:

But…but.. but in real life, if Andy played well my friends/family don’t “congratulate” me on my support, they’d say something like, “Gosh Andy played well didn’t he?” And, if he’d lost, they’d say “Shame Andy played badly” or perhaps tactfully they wouldn’t say anything.
Because however Andy does, is actually nothing to do with my support for him.
The virtual world ain’t real, who knew?…..and I don’t think you can draw analogies. However, I do try to write anything I actually wouldn’t say to so, face to face, that’s a good rule.


danica Says:

Re: Davis Cup
I will be in Belgrade at the time and was really looking forward to seeing the match. However, I do think it would be a bad idea for both Nole and Andy to play it considering higher stakes this year. I don’t think anyone in Serbia and surroundings would be mad at Nole (and really, who cares what they think?) for not showing up if he wins a medal (or even better, gold) at the OG.

Also, if it’s true that the match will take place at the little stadium at Tasmajdan, I think that’s a horrible choice of a venue. The capacity is what, a few seats? In mid July, the temperature in Belgrade can be over 40C. Who needs roasting on clay without shades when preserving energy for bigger things is certainly more important? I understand that clay and heat probably suit us better than the Brits, but still.


danica Says:

RE: Novak’s comments.
Well, ha was not asked about doping, he started talking about the topic himself. Having said that, I don’t think he said anything suspicious. Everyone is innocent until proven guilty. He wants the governing bodies to be transparent and come out with their findings and names.


danica Says:

RE: Andy’s comments.
By mentioning guys who “play six hours matches” I immediately thought of only two: Nole and Rafa. He didn’t say “five hour matches”, he specifically said “six”. How many 6 hour matches do we know of in recent history? The 2012 AO. Now, Nole played a 5 hour match against him and won. He won a 6 match afterwards. Who knows, maybe the 6 hour match WAS a consequence of a previous long match? Maybe Nole would have won sooner had his semis match was a two and a half hour affair? What Andy should do? Work more on his stamina.

Now, I have a personal story to add. I used to practice track and field at the stadium of Red Star Belgrade soccer club. I competed in short distance races. At the time, the Red Star tennis hopefuls were coming to practice with us to gain speed and endurance. Two of them would become Davis Cup players in the 90ies, one of whom I am still in contact with. Since those were tough years for Serbian athletes, they didn’t have much chance to prosper internationally. The one who is still my friend used to practice in Florida during winters in the same camp with Jim Courier. Anyhow, he also used to go with us to the high altitude camps. His workload was always half the load we had to “endure”. If we had to run 10km, he had to run 5km. He was saying how tennis practices were nothing in comparison to ours. The premier newspaper in the country, “Politika” (my fellow countryman will know), run a story at the time that the 14 year old girls of the Red Star track and field team have more stamina than the senior, professional soccer players who won so much in those years (google the achievements of Red Star soccer team). One of the links in Novak’s success is the employment of Gebhard Phil-Gritsch who is often marginalized in stories of Novak’s renaissance. I firmly believe he introduced a rigorous and hard regimen for his pupil.

PS: Allegations that Nole was faking tiredness in the finals of the AO, again from personal experience – I had it numerous times happen to me but I learnt that this crisis would come to an end. I just needed to be patient and continue running. Say, I had to run 10 km. Around the 5th km, I would feel tired, deprived of energy, breathing heavily… But I knew that my main problem was mental and that I shouldn’t stop to rest. In time, that crisis would pass and I would then run somehow invigorated and energized. So, when a player shows signs of fatigue mid match and then starts running and playing like crazy, I don’t see it as unnatural and suspicious.


MMT Says:

elina: Commiserations? For what? Let’s assume (for a moment only) that all the slander of Wog boy and bojana are accurate:

Does it change the absurdity of Djokovic’s statement? Has anyone given a logical refutation of my contention, other than to essentially change what he said?

Of course not, because it was so plainly illogical.

Lyndon Johnson had an expression, “Son…you cain’t shine @#!^” You should save your commiserations for those trying to do just that.


skeezer Says:

MMT,
Spot on.


chrisford1 Says:

MMT – the goading and smearing is on your end, not the Serbs reacting to you and others of the more nasty Federer fan type. The slander is from you and your obtuse semantics.
Djokovic was quite logical. So far the testing in tennis has not shown the massive problem that idiots at WADA imagined…..so if testing is not showing a huge problem, the sport should be prmoted as a lot clener than some sports and a presumption of innocence be the fair due of each and every ATP/WTA player.
The problem is more with your thinking than Djokovics. I used the brainless quest for WMD where the absence made believers assert that the ar was even more necessary than 1st believed, because the Iraqis were so clever and devious hiding them. And now we have the retired WADA bumbler , Dick Pound back at it saying that testing only uncovers <2% of those tested so the sport is not clean because the mindset at WADA believs 10-20% of tennis players are PED users. Nothing from the fool that all his WADA testing might indicate his 1st estimates are far in excess of the actual PED problem in tennis.
And how Djokovic is sadly mistaken if he thinks a sport is clean when testing people right and left isn't showing much at all. Troiki had no drugs in him, Cilic was accidentally given the wrong glucose pills, Maria DECLARED meldonium was one of the drugs she was taking on her AO entry documents. And Gasquet and Hingis were shown to have barely detectable levels of cocaine – levels far below any regular workplace or DUI threshold And coke doesn't improve sports performance.
You argument, a logical fallacy – to use another example besides WMD – "There is no compelling evidence that UFOs are not visiting the Earth; therefore, UFOs exist, and there is intelligent life elsewhere in the Universe."

Hopefully Djokovic will walk away from this PED debate and focus on clay and a resurgent Rafa. He did his bit to defend his sport as clean and his advocacy that players should be considered innocent until proven guilty. The burden of proof is on the accusers, not the accused. Dick Pound thinks 20% of tennis players are dirty based on his cycling sport extrapolation….Fine, Dick! test away since the evidence doesn't match your beliefs. Change the testing if you think it faulty! Keep scanning, a UFO is sure to flit by one of these days. Keep digging in the Iraqi desert. Mass qantities of WMD have to be buried in the next sand dune!!


danica Says:

CF1,
Spot on!


bojana Says:

Cf1,

Thank You for stepping up for Serbs.

For the comment: SPOT ON!


skeezer Says:

So this is a Serbian thing? Whoa!


MMT Says:

cf1: Slander is slander – it doesn’t come from semantics. And if you consider criticizing a statement that I find to be illogical slander, you’re even more biased than I imagined.

Your WMD example highlights the danger of taking some action without evidence, but nobody is suggesting any action be taken other than change the testing, which you accidentally, but nevertheless correctly, suggested.

In cycling doping was rampant, but your (and Djokovic’s) proposition could just as easily have been used to assert that cycling was clean – with commensurately logical basis and actually useless effect. It was precisely because of the possibilities of insufficient testing and suppressed evidence, that you accidentally invoked with your argumentum ad ignoratium, that rampant doping persisted, without significant evidence, for years.

And I agree that the players you listed who were “caught” doping had no intention of doping. I have stated as much here and on my blog. http://tennis-column.blogspot.com/2013/03/the-only-dope-is-anti-doping-believer.html That would lead an objective observer to allow for the possibility that testing is insufficient, not necessarily that the sport is clean. It is this contention (and this contention only) that I have criticized – which you, as if by some script devoid of objective analysis, took as an affront to Djokovic.

You have also misconstrued your example of UFO’s: nobody is arguing that the sport is not clean BECAUSE there is no evidence. That is yet another straw man. The argument is that the absence of evidence of doping doesn’t prove the absence thereof.

But you did (unexpectedly) make one argument that Djokovic did not, that I agree with: “Change the testing if you think it’s faulty.” The case of Wayne Odesnik and the avalanche of dopers in cycling does suggest that WADA doping controls are frequently behind the curve.

When you want to prevent hacking, you go to the best hackers in the world. I would suggest that WADA do the same with the best dopers in the world and I believe the players professing to want to keep the sport clean (including Djokovic, in my opinion) would be in favor of that.

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