Federer, Murray Lead Grass Events Next Week at Halle, Queen’s
by Staff | June 11th, 2016, 6:21 pm
  • 172 Comments

GERRY WEBER OPEN
Halle, Germany; Surface: grass


Seeds: Roger Federer, Kei Nishikori, Dominic Thiem, Tomas Berdych, David Goffin, David Ferrer, Viktor Troicki, Philipp Kohlschreiber

Floaters: Borna Coric, Marcos Baghdatis, Alexander Zverev

Notes: Potential tough starts for (5) Goffin vs. Coric, (4) Berdych vs. the veteran Baghdatis, and (7) Troicki vs. the German riser Zverev…Wildcards were awarded to American Taylor Fritz and Germans Dustin Brown, Jan-Lennard Struff and Zverev…Gael Monfils withdrew from the tournament…Ernests Gulbis is the top seed in the qualifying, with Lukas Rosol, Sergiy Stakhovsky and Rajeev “Rampras” Ram also attempting to emerge…Thiem shocked Federer last week in the Stuttgart semis on grass…”We will experience lots of extra-special matches in the first round,” said Tournament Director Ralf Weber. “The power density is as high as never before. Sensationally, we have five players of the 11 best in the world.”…Former champs in the field are led by the eight-time winner Federer (2015-13,’08,’06-03), with Kohlschreiber (2011), and Berdych (2007).

AEGON CHAMPIONSHIPS
Queen’s Club/London, England; Surface: grass

Seeds: Andy Murray, Stan Wawrinka, Milos Raonic, Richard Gasquet, Marin Cilic, Roberto Bautista Agut, John Isner, Gilles Simon

Floaters: Nicolas Mahut, Feliciano “F-Lo” Lopez, Sam Querrey, Nick Kyrgios, Juan Martin del Potro, Fernando “Hot Sauce” Verdasco

Notes: Six of the eight seeds have challenging starts with (1) Murray vs. Mahut, (5) Cilic vs. F-Lo, (6) Bautista Agut vs. Querrey, (3) Raonic vs. Kyrgios, (7) Isner vs. Del Potro, and (2) Wawrinka vs. Hot Sauce…The all-Brit wildcard allocation went to Kyle Edmund, Daniel Evans and James Ward…Pulling from the event were Rafael Nadal, Leonardo Mayer and Jo-Wilfried Tsonga…Brits won the first 15 editions of the tournament, but the U.S. (33) has the most titles to Britain (30) in second…Former champs in the field are led by the four-time winner Murray (2015,’13,’11,’09), along with Dimitrov (2014), Cilic (2012), and Querrey (2010).


You Might Like:
Rafael Nadal Is Returning To Queen’s This Year, He Makes The Wimbledon Final Everytime He Plays There
Nadal Wins, Federer v Raonic In Halle; Tsonga Injured At Queen’s
Andy Murray Sets Record With 5th Queen’s Title; Florian Mayer Denies Alexander Zverev In Halle
Federer Wins Grass Opener In Halle, Haas v Gulbis Thursday; Murray Rained Out In Queen’s
Federer, Djokovic Returns To Action Thursday In Halle, Queen’s

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172 Comments for Federer, Murray Lead Grass Events Next Week at Halle, Queen’s

Travis Bickle Says:

As I stated numerous times here I am against censorship. But frankly, I am starting to feel that Tennis X moderator exhibit systematic bias against some of us. I ask the moderator(s) as well as all posters to consider the following examples:

Giles posted this on the “Rafa withdraws from Wimbledon” thread:
“Lol Daniel. The last 2 lines of your post at 8 35 am are really pathetic as are most of your posts. Joker fans will hate fed cos right now fed has 17 and joker 12. Quite simple really. Nadal doesn’t need pity from the SCUMBAGS who call themselves joker fans.
Here’s hoping joker does not win another slam. He has too much already, undeservedly so.”
(June 10th, 2016 at 8:49 am)
It went through moderation rather quickly and appeared on Tennis X.

Some time later I posted this on the “Forbes – Highest Paid Players in Tennis” thread:
@jane,
You’ve explained #2 seed.
However, who will be the #1 seed?
PS
For what it’s worth, I like Djoker and Murray and am neither Serbian nor Scottish…
Also, I like our own Giles and am definitely not Jane Goodall!
(June 10th, 2016 at 4:34 pm)
My post went through moderation and did not appear in almost 24 hours when, of course, no one could find it due to sheer amount of post accumulated after it.

Isn’t this a clear example of double-standards in moderation here? I also read today that another Djoker fan (George) complains about being moderated for really no good reason – all the while he was responding to the malicious poster called “mem” who posts about Novak Djokovic cheating, doping, schooling Nadal and Federer, etc… without any evidence (except of schooling part – there is plenty of evidence about that…)

I think Tennis X is one of the better and fairer tennis forums and truly expect this awkward moderating policy should be fixed somehow – right now is biased to say the least!


Wog Boy Says:

Talking about double standards, I am going to use wird Noletards in this post and it will ho through, I’ll try the same eord for Fedfans in my next post and let’s ser if it is going to be moderated?


Wog Boy Says:

Noletards got through, but Fed7ard with proper spelling is under moderation, good job Sean.


Wog Boy Says:

I tried Rafa7ard with proper spelling and is under moderation too. Conclusion, you are all allowed to insult Nole fans knowing we can’t return the favour, unless we jiggle it around, again, good and fair job Sean.


Okiegal Says:

Why do we feel the need to insult anybody? These three men are amazing tennis players in their own right. I can’t believe an avid fan of tennis would not appreciate these three men and what enjoyment they each have contributed to this sport….they’re all amazing. I know I love every rivalry each of them have had with the other! If you love watching tennis, it’s been ride….a wild exciting one!!


Okiegal Says:

Btw….I hate any word when “tard” has been added as a suffix….I know children who are mentally challenged….so I take the reference personal.


ABerg Says:

I feel *tard is insult to fans, not the player.


Wog Boy Says:

kjb,

It doesn’t seem that he is ripping any benefits apart of being embarrassed tournament after tournament this year, but as long as he is happy with his performance and using them as informal tournaments I am happy for him to stick around as long as possible so No1e can build even better head to head.


Wog Boy Says:

Sugar..wrong thread.


Giles Says:

Hot off the Press – Murray to start working with Ivan Lendl from tomorrow.


theDA Says:

So, in case anyone has missed the momentous news Lendl has reunited with Andy *FISTPUMP* I’m overjoyed. This could be the final piece of the puzzle. Hope you’re ecstatic Margot. Also looking forward to Mat4′s creative explanation of this occurrence especially as he so often insinuated that Lendl left because Muzz didn’t pay well enough “like a Scot” ;P


calmdownplease Says:

Lendl is B.A.C.K!
(for Muzz!)
weeeee I can’t wait for Wimbles!


Jun Says:

They’re back together again! Wimbledon just got more interesting, although Ivan never won it. I thought Andy was doing well with JamieD, but Ivan is Ivan.


calmdownplease Says:

Indeed, Ivan is Ivan the right type of personality to guide his rather emotional charge to his best (and most effective)tennis
Ivan might not have won it himself, but i do remember him helping someone else over the finishing line
If only we could wipe away the last 2/3 post surgery years but this is perhaps the next best thing…..
;)


calmdownplease Says:

I actually though Andy was the slight favourite for Wimbledon anyway
despite ‘the GOAT in waiting’s persistent dominance (yawn)


Wog Boy Says:

Boris Becker never won FO, but he guided Nole masterfully to one. Ivan and Boris know what it takes to win a Slam. I am glad Andy didn’t get Ivan before FO..;)


Jun Says:

Not sure about the timing but, didn’t Andy hurt his back on Ivan’s watch?


Jun Says:

From the Telegraph website:

Murray said: “I had two very successful years working with Ivan, he’s single minded and knows what it takes to win the big events.”

It is thought the partnership could run until the end of this year’s Wimbledon championships.


Jun Says:

Lendl said: “I enjoyed working with Andy in the past. Andy and I have always stayed in contact so it should be fun to be part of his team again.”


skeezer Says:

“Boris Becker never won FO, but he guided Nole masterfully to one. Ivan and Boris know what it takes to win a Slam.”
Federer won multiple Slams and titles, including one year a 73-6 match win season, without a coach. No crutch needed.


calmdownplease Says:

‘I am glad Andy didn’t get Ivan before FO..;)’

Probably wouldn’t have made a god damn difference WB
The weather is even more powerful than the Lendl
You’re really supposed to go into a final having played LESS than Novak, not more.
Andy had exactly 2/3rd of a set left
It was a very nice 2/3rd, however, so I am not TOO worried.
But if Novak wins over Andy at Wimbles
I’m sitting the tour out for a while
Maybe a long while.


calmdownplease Says:

@SLEEZER

‘Crutch’
I’m tempted to take up this one but as it is utterly irrelevant I’ll let it pass
This time.


calmdownplease Says:

I meant skeezer but mmm


calmdownplease Says:

‘didn’t Andy hurt his back on Ivan’s watch’

Long term issue that reached breaking point.


calmdownplease Says:

‘It is thought the partnership could run until the end of this year’s Wimbledon championships’

It’s tentative it seems, but i doubt that will be the end of it or why bother otherwise?
Lendl as star coach has again got Andy just at the right time and thankfully the next two slams speed up and were incidentally the ones he won under Lendl’s watch


skeezer Says:

CDP,
Actually a good move for Andy currently., Lendl has been great for him. However, have always thought Andy would do fine without a Coach, if he committed to it, he’s his own man.


calmdownplease Says:

fair enough.
And yes, if Andy wins Wimble, Lendl will get the credit, but I have no probs with that at all.
Let’s face it Andy is a little somewhat immature compared to Novak and he has Becker and the another coach so..just in case!
Every little helps at this level.


James Says:

Edberg must feel awful – the best student in the world, and not a single slam won. Becker used to kick his ass when they played (Becker was 25-10 on him). Now his student kicked his student’s ass. Though this time there is a 6 year age gap, which matters a heck of a lot.


theDA Says:

Contrary to most opinions at the time, it did not end acrimoniously. This reunion refutes that. Rather, it was an initial disagreement about whether Andy should proceed with surgery. Ivan wanted to maintain the momentum achieved in 2013 and thought it would be a mistake. Andy’s slow progress in getting back to form was the deciding factor – Ivan isn’t known for his patience ;) The headlines said he didn’t want to travel but that was the underlying reason. Lastly, spare a thought for poor Berdy 😂


AndyMira Says:

Hope this ‘new’ partnership will bear fruit soon..it’s about time to add more slam andy!


BBB Says:

That’s funny Skeezer. Because Federer hired Roche to win the FO. He just couldn’t beat Rafa, it seems. Not a problem Djokovic had; maybe Federer should have hired Becker instead of Roche?


BBB Says:

And congrats to Andy fans. This is very good news for his chances of winning another major.


chrisford1 Says:

Skeezer – “skeezer Says:
“Boris Becker never won FO, but he guided Nole masterfully to one. Ivan and Boris know what it takes to win a Slam.”
Federer won multiple Slams and titles, including one year a 73-6 match win season, without a coach. No crutch needed.”

===============
But the signs the times they were a changing in 2007 had turned to big losses at the hands of Nadal and Djokovic, Andy was beating him to. So as a new competitive era formed, Roger alos cast about for a crutch.


elina Says:

none of the Big 4 in their prime would really need a coach from ’04’07, let’s be honest. Are you kidding me?

LMAO


jane Says:

a very good question: why does this pass moderation? it is a personal insult, calling novak fans “scumbags” – seriously t-x? this should just be deleted, straight into the garbage. no need to even publish this.

Giles posted this on the “Rafa withdraws from Wimbledon” thread:
“Lol Daniel. The last 2 lines of your post at 8 35 am are really pathetic as are most of your posts. Joker fans will hate fed cos right now fed has 17 and joker 12. Quite simple really. Nadal doesn’t need pity from the SCUMBAGS who call themselves joker fans.
Here’s hoping joker does not win another slam. He has too much already, undeservedly so.”
(June 10th, 2016 at 8:49 )


Jun Says:

jane, I have a feeling that Giles is a member of the t-x “family”.


Jun Says:

For Nole fans, I highly recommend Ru-an’s blog.

http://theultimatetennisblog.com/


skeezer Says:

Posters need to quit the hypocrite game and the “someone else’s fault.” Take responsibility for your own posts, READ THE GUIDELINES, and if you feel insulted or attacked complain with facts to Admin.
I do not work for Tennis X and wish they would comment on all this but if you read the guidelines and follow it you won’t be moderated. Oh and by the way, I was moderated before so its not like I don’t know why you get moderated.
It seems some here don’t take the time to read them, So I posted the link:

http://www.tennis-x.com/pages/commenting.php


mat4 Says:

theDA:

I didn’t insinuated, I guess I wrote it, and quoted my sources.

Will it make a difference? How? Murray played a F, and 3 SF in 2011. He was bound to win a slam some day. He’s probably bound to win another, now when he is in great form and there are no Nadal and Federer to face — we know that he never beat two “big three” in a row in a slam. Novak can’t beat him each and every time — the season is long, and one can’t keep the same level from the beginning to the end. Lendl chose well his moment, after Andy played two finals in a row, won a master 1000, and after an excellent 2015. Murray was one of the favourite for Wimbledon anyway, where he plays well.

But it won’t change much in the long run. Novak is an all time great, Andy belong to the second tier. The H2H is 24-10 (8-2 in slams), slams 12-2, MS1000 29-12, and Novak made a grand slam. I don’t see Andy winning 10 slams in the next three years, nor 15 MS 1000, although it could be possible.

In fact, I am very happy Lendl came back. I hope he won’t stay only to phagocyte Mauresmo’s work, who seemed to have helped Andy a lot with his movement and serve, and that he won’t left after the first or second bad result by his protégé, like he did before.

Let’s wait and see, anyway.


Wog Boy Says:

Brown noser strikes again.


Wog Boy Says:

^^ @8:00pm


mat4 Says:

I don’t agree that a player doesn’t need a coach. There are perhaps a few exceptions, but in general, a good coach is worth a lot.

Federer played without a coach after Roche. He stopped improving, and needed some time to find Annacone, who did a fine job with him.

Tsonga fired Winogradsky, and played well for almost a year on the basis of the work they had done together. But the catastrophe arrived after that.

Dimitrov is a good example of not finding an adequate coach. Monfils too, but he tends to make things complicated for anybody to work with him.

On the other side, Gasquet and Raonic benefited from Piatti’s work, Vajda did a lot for Djokovic, Petchey and Maclagan for Murray.


J-Kath Says:

When I first read Lendl would be available for Andy thru the grass season, I was pleased. This euphoria has since faded. Second chances don’t always suceed. As it is supposed to be only through the grass season, I think this puts an extra pressure on Andy, e.g. if Lendl doesn’t see measurable effects from his input, he could buzz off after the Grass for good.

In my view, Andy doesn’t have to beat Nole at a “biggy”to be recognised as a very successful player. If he remains in the top 4 for the next couple of years, that’s great. But then, I’m only a fan and this may not be what Andy wants. Ah well. We shall see.


mat4 Says:

If I remember well, Federer hired Higuerras for RG.


mat4 Says:

J-Kath:

Andy will win at least 2-4 slams more. He still has the game to make a deeper mark.

And I was answering to theDA — don’t read these posts, please. It’s a long story.


BBB Says:

I did enjoy this tweet from Pseudofed:

My work account @rogerfederer must not be working, I will therefore use this account to congratulate @DjokerNole on the #NoleSlam


skeezer Says:

mat4,
Fed won 3 Slams with no Coach, proof that you don’t need no Coach, unless you need the crutch or a lesser player.


mat4 Says:

@Skeezer:

I followed carefully what happened then. First, Fed still had Severin Luthi somewhere near. But he needed a vision — how to improve, how to make another step. He tried working with Higueras for the FO, but Higueras was a different kind of player — his conception of the game was different. That’s why I think that — despite winning three slams — a Roche or an Annacone would have had helped him very much.

It’s open for debate, and unfortunately Annacone wasn’t working with Fed any more when his work gave finally his results — but imagine for a moment Federer playing in 2011 the way he did in 2014, with the missing 2% of speed and 10% of stamina? 20 slams? IMHO, certainly more than 17.


skeezer Says:

No their are times when the right Coach could have helped, but my point is Fed, at times, winning big titles with no Coach, was so good, better than anyone playing today, that he could without a Coach and he did.


mat4 Says:

E.g., I don’t see how he would have lost the USO 2009 had he started to be more aggressive and shortening points. He had won the FO, WB, and the following AO. He had a Fedslam on his racquet.


BBB Says:

It’s kind of strange that someone would win 14 slams with a coach, and 3 without, and the conclusion to be drawn is that a coach is nothing but a crutch.


skeezer Says:

BBB,
Just shows how much a GOAT he is to do mutiple titles and Slams with no coach. Who else has done it in the top 4?

0


mat4 Says:

@Skeezer:

I am not denying that Fed is a great player. But to find the right coach, sometimes you need luck. He was also very unfortunate with his change of racquet, that came too late. Hopefully, this hasn’t harmed his career too much, although I believe it has.

But, like always, it’s easy to be clever a posteriori.

I have to add that I disapprove the fan war and bullying that is happening now, and that you don’t deserve it not only from Nolefans, but from anybody. You’re a true Fedfan and it is something to respect. Unfortunately, it seems that lately many have gone that way — even some I wouldn’t have ever suspected, under false monikers, and whom I trusted very much.


skeezer Says:

Thanks mat4, appreciate the comments. Always read yours.
“posteriori”
Clever. ;)


Willow Says:

I never have used false monikors, if i use a new one, i will still always be honest about who i am, if / when people ask me, thats all, hate bullying, and have been on the wrong end of it at times on this very forum, Sean and the staff IMO really need to step up to some people, and what on earth has a players sexuality got to do with anything ? ….


Michael Says:

I do not know why Novak is skipping up these warm up tourneys ahead of Wimbledon ?

Nothing is better than match practice and to switch over from French to Wimbledon which hosts completely different surface with dramatically different playing conditions will not be a smooth transition. Moreover, it is the first time, Novak has won Roland Garros and I think if he successively wins Wimbledon, then that will add another feather to his glorious cap and accomplishment of a feat which he hasn’t done before. In that sense, I would feel this round of Wimbledon will be a little bit special for Novak and emulating the lies of Borg, Roger, Rafa, Laver etc., will be very much in his mind.

I feel that participating in a warm up tourney ahead of Wimbledon would have done him a world of good. But, Novak has other ideas and ofcourse he managed to win Wimbledon in the past without participating in the warm up tourneys and may be, this startling fact has made him a bit complacent.

Nevertheless, although Novak and his Team enjoy a great deal of reputation when it comes to scheduling, yet participating in a warm up tourney ahead of Wimbledon would have been a great idea and can only smoothen the road ahead.


theDA Says:

“I didn’t insinuated, I guess I wrote it, and quoted my sources”

Sources? About the break being due to money? Nope, you never did. As you’ve probably ascertained, I have a long memory. I’d love to see them – they must still exist ;)

“For Nole fans, I highly recommend Ru-an’s blog”

LOL. The guy who worshipped at Roger’s altar and then ditched him when he started losing finals? He jumped on Novak’s bandwagon faster than you could say “fair weather fan”. Serious lack of integrity there folks.


J-Kath Says:

Mat4

If Andy does win another 2-4 GS’s that would be excellent. My concern is what will happen to his confidence if Ivan flies the coop too soon. The current arrangement appears to be based on a (trial?) re-union during the very short grass season.


calmdownplease Says:

Reading Mat4′s posts, am I the only one senses the absolute dread permeating them about any possible improvement in Andy’s performance on the tour?
Well Mat4, he IS improving again and will continue to do so at an ever more rapid pace now.
It’s plainly evident.
Novak had a long time being only opposed by one tennis player in a Fed past somewhat by his sell by date
He’s not getting his own way any longer and the sport can only benefit.


mat4 Says:

@J-Kath:

Nothing will happen to his confidence. Just like now, the last time Lendl came when success was almost guarantee, and left when it suited him.

Andy is the clear no 2, he made two GS finals in a row, had a great clay season and the work done with Mauresmo is showing. It’s not like he’s a failure. It’s not like he needs Lendl. And the inner calm and focus to win a slam — if it is what he needs — he will have to find them in himself.

Andy Murray needs Andy Murray, not Ivan Lendl.


Jun Says:

If the definition of integrity is being beholden to one player and one player alone and above the game of tennis itself, then yeah he doesn’t have it.

That you doubt somebody can grow out of their Fed worship spell and continue to enjoy and support tennis and it’s current top players, that’s your problem not Ru-an’s.


mat4 Says:

@CDP:

Of course he has improved, mostly his movement on clay and his serve.

But for other things — he can’t, and, in fact, he doesn’t need to.

His most obvious problem is his forehand. But here, you should know a bit about Andy’s racquet. His racquet has even more swing weight than Djokovic’s. It helps very much when you are returning. It helps absorb the power of opponent’s shots and gives you a lot of power, but it requires more time and strength to hit with it.

But when you realize that Andy’s spin is 1/2 of what Federer and Djokovic produce, you have to think that the wrist weight of his racquet is high too. Then, you should find some clips on YT and watch Andy playing his FH, and compare with Fed’s FH. The key here is elbow and wrist pronation. I don’t believe he changed his motion under Lendl in 2012-3.

The fact here is that Andy can’t generate enough spin, and without enough spin, when he’s a bit tired, he makes more UE, especially on lower balls.

So, he has to be very aggressive, shorten point, and use to good effect his flat FH. He’s powerful and has good hands at the net, it shouldn’t be a problem. In fact, he has to take the same road Djokovic did — Novak went 40+ time to the net in their last match.

In the past, he was able to do it for a set, even two. In the USO QF 2014, he did it with good effects in the second set, but he tired in the third. It was a high quality match, where Andy’s main problem was outline — his weight. He’s big, muscular, and very heavy. Against Djokovic, who is very aggressive and defends very well, he has to be ready for a long fight. I believe that the choice he made in 2008 was partly good, partly bad. He got more power, but he tires more easily. Perhaps Andy should lose a few pounds, but it’s difficult to say.


mat4 Says:

@theDA:

I am so glad you’re back, with you’re usual humility and good-natured posts. We all missed you very much, especially after the AO final, and the FO final, to friendly discuss tennis. I enjoyed a lot of Andy’s matches very much, btw, especially at slams.

@CDP:

Is the truth in the eye of the beholder? I guess you read what you want to read, and see what you need to see. It speaks more about yourself than about anything else.


BBB Says:

Mat, I wonder the same about Andy’s size. He’s obviously fit, but he himself doesn’t seem to think he can beat Djokovic in a 5-set match. I know some felt that Andy flagged at the FO because of his early five-setters, but it seems to me that enough time passed, with easy matches in between, that the early five-setters were not relevant at that point.


Wog Boy Says:

I don’t want to rain on Andy fans parade, but I am always worried about those reunions and I think Delgado was doing great job, I really liked him, bit I am not Andy fan so I guess they know better.
The truth is, as much as some Andy fans don’t want to admit, that Lendl dumped Andy, literally so, Andy didn’t see it coming. You can spin it any way you want, but that’s what happened. If I am Andy I would’ve never hired him again. Same as wife that takes back husband who cheated on her, if did it once, he’ll do it again, works the other way around too:)


mat4 Says:

@BBB:

That’s a question of choice, but it has to be a coherent whole. I don’t think the can lose weight now, so, the point would be to use his power and speed the best he can. And it’s not in long wars of attrition.

He wasn’t so tired in the FO final. He had enough time to recover (he played a five setter ten days before…), and, btw, Novak was the player that played four days of five, in very heavy conditions.

He lost because Novak was/is the better player, and, in retrospect, he would have lost in Rome too, was it not for Novak’s brutal schedule.


BBB Says:

I’m out of my depth, mat, but Andy’s game is primarily defensive, no? That seems a tough combination – defensive plus bulky. But, I have zero majors to my name, so who am I to say.

I mostly agree with you about Rome, but I’d add in that Djokovic’s attitude was terrible several days running. As I said at the time, that loss was probably good for Djokovic, as it made him take Andy more seriously in the FO.


mat4 Says:

@Wog:

I made repeated Google searches. Very often, when I type “Novak Djokovic”, results about Andy Murray pop on top. After that, you have a few horrible articles about Novak, and then, only, a few affirmative articles about the world no 1.

When I choose a country where Novak successes are viewed very positively — India, e.g., I still have articles about Murray from GB, and articles from New Zealand — you know what I mean.

While in France a lot of journalists have written about the non calendar grand slam — a feat in itself — on tennis.com, Tignor dedicated one line to the subject. On T-x, they wrote more about the WTA than about the grand slam.

So, the hype has to hype. Let’s wait and see.


mat4 Says:

BBB:

You’re completely right. Andy prefers to defend, while all his game is tailored for attack: flat, powerful FH, good net play, etc. That’s his main problem.

But even if he changes his game, Novak is still the better player on most surfaces.


mat4 Says:

Wog:

Hopefully, Novak’s results speak for themselves. A non-calendar grand slam, a career grand slam, 12 slams, most MS1000, highest level of opposition ever, highest mean opponent, highest median opponent, most top ten wins per year, toughest opposition in slams, highest rating ever… With a little bit of luck, top 2 in the Open era (he needs two slams more). Great career already. No frustration. No need to throw his anybody under the bus, no need for hype.

I’ll quote Gans, a poster from another site:

“The true greats are those who give it all and never let the results have an impact on them.

– To hug the opponent after they beat you requires a deep understanding and courage. Learn from Novak.

– To not think that one is superior after winning so much requires humility. Learn from Rafa.

– To be calm in the middle of a storm. Learn from Roger.”


calmdownplease Says:

‘truth in the eye of the beholder? I guess you read what you want to read, and see what you need to see. It speaks more about yourself than about anything else.’

No it doesn’t.
Purleeze, you have been ON like this for ages!
hahaha and HA


mat4 Says:

Sorry:

No need to throw anybody under the bus, no need for hype.


calmdownplease Says:

@mat4

‘blah blah blah blah’ says Mat4 in a rather excited manner.

too long Mat4!
I know you are a pensioner but i am not and I am rather busy right now
keep succinct, old chap!


mat4 Says:

@CDP:

You can repeat a lie as many times as you like. It won’t make it a truth.


anki Says:

Thiem wins yet another title, how many tournaments does this guy play? And then I see Novak who is in full on party mode. I wish he would participate in some grass tournaments ahead of Wimbledon apart from Boodles exho. I don’t think he cares much about Wimbledon now that he has won French open


Wog Boy Says:

BBB,

Nole’s atitude in Rome was fake, trust me, it is Boris, street wise Boris coaching street fighter Nole, deadly combination.


Wog Boy Says:

mat4,

Humble Rafa said everything in his post after FO final, if certain one managed to do what Nole did this site would crash, but Sean swiftly moved to WTA tournamens;)

I’ll quote you old Serbian saying:

“Ne pada sneg da pokrije breg već da svaka zver pokaze svoj trag”

You are free to translate to these pricks (haters) on TX.


theDA Says:

“I am so glad you’re back, with you’re usual humility and good-natured posts”

And you continue to preside with your integrity or lack thereof. ;)
So no sources/quotes about Lendl leaving due to pay? Some things never change.

“We all missed you very much”

And you were very much missed at Rome this year & Toronto last year. Occasionally I do miss your draw conspiracies but life offers more riches. On my part it is very much good natured. It’s just a game where you sometimes hit the ball over the net better than the other guy: not life or death. I wish I sensed the same sentiment on your part.

@CDP

A tip: take much of what Mat4 says about Muzz with a huge pinch of salt. Occasionally he’s right but so is a stopped clock twice a day. One of my all-time favorite bits of Mat4 wisdom® is criticizing Andy for hiring Lendl instead of sticking with Miles Maclagan :D Come to think of it, it *does* make some sense that Djokovic fans wished he’d stayed with Miles ;)


BBB Says:

WB, I don’t know about that…. And he came dangerously close to a default during the FO itself….


Wog Boy Says:

Sorry theDA, but what excatly Andy achieved agains Nole or compared to Nole achievements? Yes, Nole is yet to win set against Andy on grass, but Andy is yet to win three Wimbledon titles, no? What is better? Andy is yet to win another GS titles to reach Nole and another five WTF titles and… What are you trying to say to us?
Some of you suddenly are behaving like Andy already won Wimbledon, just by hiring person who, btw, dumped him like an used …I don’t want to say what.


Wog Boy Says:

BBB,
Trust me on that one.


anki Says:

I agree with Wog Boy, hilarious how so many people read too much into that Rome defeat. That was so not like the usual Novak. I am sure most of the Novak fans were least bothered by the defeat plus his cranky attitude.


calmdownplease Says:

@mat4

‘You can repeat a lie as many times as you like. It won’t make it a truth.’

Advice you would best absorb yourself.

@theDA

sure, but he is so hilariously transparent!

As for the Rome defeat..
SHUT THE F UP!
Or what about the RG defeat?
Is it only Novak that gets off being tired
Because that’s exactly what that particular match looked like to me as well.
Very selective.
Anyway, the whole French Open fiasco is OVER and a far superior non french tournament is now on the horizon. One with actual roofs and in the 21st century and looking to the future, despite its gilded history.


calmdownplease Says:

‘Andy fans don’t want to admit, that Lendl dumped Andy, literally so, Andy didn’t see it coming’

I’m not one of the some
Of course he did, but Andy did have that surgery and so you can’t blame him as he knew what would have occured (and did)
I would think that him returning is also a good thing, a sign from Lendl thinks he has potential again.
Lendl; is about the mental side it will work well of that i am sure.


Wog Boy Says:

“I would think that him returning is also a good thing, a sign from Lendl thinks he has potential again.”

CDP, I would think that Lendl is very pragmatic person and thinks that he can top up his bank account, Andy comes handy for that purpose?


Wog Boy Says:

Just for the record, I promised RZ Wimbledon and USO, I keep my word, so I am neutral and won’t cheer during Wimbledon (unless Andy doesn’t make final), I am not greedy, I wonted FO and I got it, Andy can have Wimbledon and USO (if Nole wins gold in Rio), so peace Andy fans.


calmdownplease Says:

then why did he not stay last time?
i get your cynicism and you might yet have a point
the bottom line in Andy really likes him they get on well and he helped him a lot or he wouldn’t have rehired him
Lendl is probably not just in it for the money but for the glory (hence the departure).
He won’t want this to fail.
Anyway we will see as it is going to happen.


Giles Says:

This creep from down under talks as if he engineered the outcome of the French Open. That’s right, joker lifted the trophy cos ” I wanted FO and I got it” . As I said they’ve all gone bonkers ( the joker fans and this one in particular). At the moment I detect a bit of nervousness on their part as a consequence of the return of Lendl. LMAO


RZ Says:

Thanks Wog Boy – I appreciate it! :-)


mat4 Says:

@theDA:

On one side, you have my arguments. I am perhaps right only two times a day, but on the other side, there’s nothing. It is your word, against my explications. And while my explications can be wrong, your word is worth less than nothing.

And no, at least here you are right, you were not missed after Rome too. Your emptiness is so easy to fill.

@CDP:

So you haven’t yet learn to read? How could I forget that more than one sentence was too difficult to understand for you.

@both: I won’t read and won’t answer your posts any more. Waist of time.


mat4 Says:

@WB:

I guess we are at peace with Margot, RZ, J-Kath and a few others. And just like you, I am not greedy either, and I will watch the following tournaments in peace, just hoping for great tennis.


calmdownplease Says:

it’s ‘waste’ dear boy, not waist

a ‘waist’ is that thing (allegedly) under you’re pot belly, that probably no one believes you possess anymore…..


mat4 Says:

@CDP:

I am sure you know French as bad as I know English.


chrisford1 Says:

Michael – “But, Novak has other ideas and ofcourse he managed to win Wimbledon in the past without participating in the warm up tourneys and may be, this startling fact has made him a bit complacent.

Nevertheless, although Novak and his Team enjoy a great deal of reputation when it comes to scheduling, yet participating in a warm up tourney ahead of Wimbledon would have been a great idea and can only smoothen the road ahead.”

===================
Remember Becker is there. He lives at Wimbledon. He knows something about winning there obviously, and has said his best work is when he is helping prepare Novak for the surface, conditions, and strategies there. More than any other event. And if Becker had a problem, he just doesn’t say yessir boss Nole will do it your way. Boris is the coach. One thing both guys have mentioned is that Boris found Novak hated to practice in high heat. Boris said, “and that makes you sometimes wilt in high heat in competition, so you will practice in high heat. Djokovic showed up in the hottest part of the day, then put down his racket and wouldn’t play “too tired and too hot”. So Becker said if you do almost nothing, I might as well enjoy myself with stuff in high heat off court because I am bored watching you do nothing. And booked golf time in the UAE and Indian Wells, Novak told to just follow along in the desert and watch. A couple outings, and Novak went back to scorching heat practice courts and worked hard. And handles heat better in big matches.

Becker has reserved a private court in past years, gets many practices in on the main venues. Novak also loves the Boodles exo.


theDA Says:

@Wog Boy

Hi, long time no chat. You were always one of the good natured Nole fans and don’t let your ego get in the way of a good debate. Hope you are well :)

“Nole is yet to win set against Andy on grass”

That’s true. 2 matches, 5-0 sets. I think it’s time for a rematch. Novak has something to prove. Should make for a great match.

“Some of you suddenly are behaving like Andy already won Wimbledon, just by hiring person who, btw, dumped him like an used…”

I’m certainly not behaving like that. I’ve been watching tennis for 35 years and know better than most *never* to raise my expectations. Novak is the No. 1 seed and 3-time holder and is expected to win, not Andy. Good luck to your guy and, if they should meet, may the best player win :)

As for whether Lendl “dumped him” – that’s an interesting perspective & choice of words. Lendl was against back surgery and was frustrated at the long process back to full fitness – btw, a period where Andy’s H2Hs against Roger & Novak became so lopsided. Ivan hinted at his impatience in his explanation for “dumping” him, but why not check the man’s own words said (note Mat4 – a source) :

http://www.givemesport.com/497765-ivan-lendl-reveals-why-he-split-with-andy-murray

“It is your word, against my explications”

When challenged, I back up my word with facts/quotes. Your “explications” usually lack them, quel dommage!


RZ Says:

@Mat4 – we should all be at peace always. Everyone has the right to their opinions, to cheer for whomever they want, to claim the GOAT is whomever they believe it is, etc. (I just hope that they share all that information respectfully). However, unlike you and Wog Boy I am greedy – I want Andy to win it all! :-)


RZ Says:

Quick “programming note” – I’ll post a link to the Wimbledon racquet bracket on Thursday or Friday of next week.


mat4 Says:

@theDA:

“When challenged, I back up my word with facts/quotes.”

What facts? What sources? What quotes?


skeezer Says:

Thiem has more victories than Novak.
The kid can play.

http://blog.mytennislessons.com/its-time-you-got-to-know-dominic-thiem/


Dave Says:

The only way I see Andy beating Novak in a best of 5 set match is if he plays aggressive all the way through to shorten the points. Lendl cannot help Andy when he literally always gets tired during a best of 5 set match against Novak. Andy can’t keep up with Nole. It’s as simple as that. He will always tire Andy out because he can hit more consistently and more precise from corner to corner throughout the match. Also, I don’t get why CDP is going off on Mat4 when Mat4 predicted 2-4 more slams for Andy. That is a very generous amount of slams to give Andy. I wouldn’t give him that many. I feel like we are in the stage again where people were wondering when Andy would win his first slam. We are in the same kind of stage, when will Andy win another slam? Andy will need to be more aggressive all the way through against Nole, or hope for a Nole upset on the other side of the draw. That is the only way he gets another slam.


calmdownplease Says:

‘Also, I don’t get why CDP is going off on Mat4 when Mat4 predicted 2-4 more slams for Andy. That is a very generous amount of slams to give’

Are you illiterate?
I didn’t do anything of the kind for the reason stated.
As usual, there is a cherry picking of facts and events to suit one’s opinion/delusion.
Get a job!


Dave Says:

Mat4 Is a fair poster. And see how you are resorting to attacks on me now? Get a job? If you have to attack people that don’t agree with your opinion, that’s up to you. You won’t be sucking me into that with you CDP. I’m sure you have many good qualities CDP. I hope one day you can get along with us. I have had a few decent discussions with you in the past. Hopefully that can happen again soon. I hope you are having a good day today. I saw that Nishikori got injured again. Federer didn’t look in the best form. But is still working his way into action.


calmdownplease Says:

Then don’t accuse me of motivations I don’t have!
Good grief, if you think I am cyber-bullying poor little Mat4, wait till i really get started
I’ve never seen so much whining on a blog as from Novak Djokovic’s fans either.
I’m sorry but I am not interested in indulging any of you.
I feel a slight incline in relations that might become precipitous fairly shortly
Seen it all before with entitled Fedal fans so I have to chuckle a little at this one.


Dave Says:

when you have to nit pick to the point where you are correcting someones English waste, waist, and swearing at other using the f word, that would be considered attacks. Have you ever made a spelling mistake before when typing in a language that wasn’t your first language? Like I said, it’s your choice to attack people. I hope we can get along though.


Willow Says:

LOL No offence CDP, but your not very good at living up to your monikor, you need to (AHEM) Calmdownplease ;-P ….


AndyMira Says:

@Dave 10:52 am..again i’m in the same bandwagon as yours..totally agree with what you said..Andy has no other choice other than play very aggressive if he wants another slam..unleash the shots a la wawa..a nothing to lose shots..wham bam left right thank you sir unpredictable shots that would left novak speechless[if this word exist in his life that is],i know it is hard for andy to adapt this kind of style but he had to in order to win another slam..it’s interesting to see how he’s gonna fare under Lendl’s new touch..hope he can mold andy to be a champion again like he once was..


calmdownplease Says:

who asked you?
And i am perfectly calm and very bored of dimwits trying to be witty with that particular line
NEXT


calmdownplease Says:

@dave

Mat4 can look after himself, he doesn’t need you.
I won’t even go into this any further.
Now, with regards to yourself;
You said I attacked him because of the slams he said Muzz would win, which is just BS (I hadn’t even read that), and that is what drew my response.
I don’t like being mischaracterized by whiny babies, that’s all.


jane Says:

he can play for sure skeezer, but he should learn to count and schedule, because so many of the points he’s earned this season are non-countable. he has something like 700 points that don’t count in the race. too many small events!

Juan José Vallejo ‏@jjvallejoa 21h21 hours ago
2016 ATP match wins:

Thiem: 45
Djokovic: 44

2016 ATP titles:

Djokovic: 6
Thiem: 4

2016 Ranking points:

Djokovic: 7950
Thiem: 2760


madmax Says:

CDP is a bully. We all know that. The sooner the moderators do something about her, the better.

Don’t suck up to her Dave, Willow, Mat4. No need to make friends with the bully.


calmdownplease Says:

Oh good grief another mental midget trying stick their oar in
go away Madmax, go back to the vacuuming or whatever it is an airhead like you does
You surely were not missed before with your vapid fed nonsense
(And It’s a ‘he’ actually)


Willow Says:

MM i wasnt, it was just an observation ….


Dave Says:

CDP,

You took what I said out of context. I meant that Mat4 saying Andy could win 2-4 more slams is a pretty nice thing to say. It’s rare for people to say such nice things about Andy on this forum. So I find in confusing that you would go after him in general. But it seems you aren’t here to make friends. I understand.

Madmax,

I am not sucking up by any means. I like to get along with people in general. It’s makes life much easier. Some people don’t ever want to get along, and that’s fine. I will give everyone the opportunity to get along. If I see that they just want to fight, I will leave them alone after that and let them have their fill.


calmdownplease Says:

and who are you then ‘willow’, who is it this time?
changing your moniker doesn’t make you anymore interesting or less wet you know


Willow Says:

^If you want to insult me go ahead i couldnt care less carry on if it makes you feel better ^….


calmdownplease Says:

‘I meant that Mat4 saying Andy could win 2-4 more slams is a pretty nice thing to say.’

You’re full of it.
What, I’m to be nice to Mat4 becasue he said a nice thing about Muzz eh?
Are you serious?!
Who do you think you are talking you, eh?
You’re treading on very dangerous waters now….


calmdownplease Says:

@willow
OR you could just not get involved in other people’s arguments?


Willow Says:

Its an open forum my dear ! ….


calmdownplease Says:

we weren’t discussing tennis
I dare you to try it again in, similar circumstances, and just see the acid bath you’ll get in return, me old mucker :)
Smart people stay out of others fights and mind their own


calmdownplease Says:

Oh, and did I tell any of you that you were idiots, yet?


Willow Says:

I dont care ….

Anyway im really excited to see if history will repeat itself for Murray, and Lendel will help Andy towards winning another GS ….


calmdownplease Says:

fine,
(but you were warned).
Anyhoo, I think you are not the only non Muzz fan that is ‘excited’ about that prospect, at least judging from here it seems…….


jalep Says:

hahahha…my favorite of the provocateurs, CDP.
Everyone has a favorite, right? 😁
He can’t be serious…it’s too funny.

Margot where are you? At Queens? Full report, please?


jalep Says:

Where did the WTA thread go?


Willow Says:

Jalep lol, you just went all John McCanroe on us, you cannot be serious ! ….


Willow Says:

As for the WTA thread hmm ? ….


jalep Says:

I’m getting a bit edgy, Willow. All my favorites are losing to serve-bots right now. Delpo, Nick, and now I see Aga’s being botted by Coco.

Tennis-x doesn’t ‘pin’ or ‘sticky’ threads — so I’ll have to go dig the latest WTA one out of the archives


calmdownplease Says:

@jalep

I must admit J, that I am perhaps feeling a bit…ungrateful about everything now, you see! ;(

;0)


jalep Says:

Do not despair, CDP. Andy’s going to win Wimbledon…I mean, there is a better chance than in a too long a time is my guess. Anyway, I’m cheering him. Go Andy! I promised to cheer him if Nole ole got FO 😉👍


calmdownplease Says:

Well, Jalep dear…
Do you think?
Wimbles would be rather sweet even for a non fan, fan like myself
It’d certainly make a change that’s for sure
I’m in the UK while Wimbledon is on (despite the sh*t weather) and have been provisionally invited to a couple of do’s there. But i don’t know when I’m going yet so I am hoping first Monday and obviously the men’s final
But it could be the women’s double’s 2nd round
I’m usually WAY too pi**ed to notice the tennis anyway, it has to be said.
if Andy is in the final, however, I will make sure I am THERE.


calmdownplease Says:

*2nd Monday!!!!!!


jalep Says:

Yes, I do.

And as a fan of the game, I definitely think Andy winning Wimbledon is a good thing for tennis. Hoping you and Andy make it to the final!

Now I have to go stick pins in a Coco doll or something she just about to beat my dear Agnieszka.. Aack!


calmdownplease Says:

Aggie needs more weapons but good luck!


Willow Says:

Jalep i like that summary on Murray winning SW19, and before everyone screams hater!, hater! (YAWN), im actually a fan, and a bit sick of all the smugness of some posters thinking everything should be about Novak, and everyone should be his play things, GO FORTH AND BLOODY HURL,AS I DONT BLOODY WELL CARE, GOT THAT ! ….


Willow Says:

Jalep sorry just to clear it up, the last line of that post wasnt meant for you, just one or two others ….


calmdownplease Says:

Well don’t hold back Willow
you should tell us how you REALLY think
(I do agree however)


mat4 Says:

@Willow:

Calm down please! Just do as I do: don’t read the works of art of some posters. Focus on your friends. Skip posts even when you see your name. It’s not difficult. Nobody has to root for Novak, nor Andy, nor Fed, nor Rafa. Anybody can root for any of them. It’s quite OK with most of the posters you interact and who respect you.


jalep Says:

I’m a Rafa fan, remember? And my sock puppets are lakie, mem, and Brando 😂


Willow Says:

Jalep sorry Aga lost,as i think her games better suited to grass ….


mat4 Says:

As a fan of the game, I think quite honestly that Novak making not only the Grand slam, but the calendar Grand slam and winning 17+ slams would be great for the game. The public want to see great stars, be part of history. And Novak, after making the Grand slam on three/perhaps four different surfaces, is definitely part of tennis history.

But if he doesn’t make it, fine with me. My wishes are fulfilled already. And he made it the hard way: beating the greatest clay courter on clay, the greatest grass player on grass, overtaking them both in the rankings when they were at their peak. So, there’s nothing much left to ask for.


calmdownplease Says:

you’re all my sock puppets
you just don’t know it yet….;0)


jalep Says:

“Aggie needs more weapons but good luck!”

Her serve isn’t big enough. Her best weapon is being mentally quick, defense, shot selection using her guile and great hand/eye skills…should I continue? no, probably not. She’s not going to win a GS without a bigger weapon…probably.


jalep Says:

@ 2:17 LOL … Yes, that’s it. I’m CDP’s sock puppet
you’re a clever one. Can you imagine? And doing it all from
the insane asylum hahahahaha….


ulysses02 Says:

It’s a good thing Thiem is playing so much. He might sprain something at some point, but the risk (small chance of serious injury) is worth it (front-loading career to build winner’s mentality confidence and earn his way to playing less / favourable tournament treatment in future). He reminds me of Stephen Curry in a way.


elina Says:

While I’m in awe of what Nole iOS achieving, he certainly did not pass fedal at their peak and he beat Nadal at RG in his absolute trough.

Revisionism is rampant

It’s simply Novak’s time now. Not rocket science and no need to diminish the truth by embellishment.


Okiegal Says:

@Ulysses02……No, Thiem isn’t cocky like Curry….but I guess if I was as good as Curry…I’d be cocky too! I am liking Thiem a lot…..he’s got it going on……..


Okiegal Says:

calmdownplease the puppet master??? NOT!!


mat4 Says:

@Elina:

He passed Nadal at Nadal’s peak, in 2011. The previous year, Rafa won 3 slams. In 2011, he won one, and made the finals in two others. He was 71-10 in 2010, and 69-15 in 2011. When you don’t count his matches against Novak, he would be 69-10 and 69-9…

The DR is very similar, and all the stats are similar for that year. So, why wasn’t Nadal at his peak?

And Novak beat him on hard, on clay (2x) and on hard.

From 2007 (Novak’s first victory), until the USO 2010, the H2H between Novak and Fed was… 6-6. and until the USO 2011, it was 10-10. So, don’t tell me he didn’t beat Fed at his peak. Before that, Novak was too young, after that, Fed was physically post-peak, although he improved his game.

I don’t need to romance anything, whatsoever.

And to be clear: I am a not a very clever person, so I trust the pundits: in 2014, Federer was the favourite to win WB. In 2015, Federer and Murray were the main favourite, but Fed played the match of his life and beat a great Andy in three, while it was Novak who wasn’t in good shape. Even Roger declared that he had never played better. Who am I to say Federer how good he played?


elina Says:

Federer’s peak ended in 2009.

Nadal’s peak ended abruptly with back injury February 2014.

Novak beat Roger at Wimbledon after his peak era and certainly he beat Rafa at RG when he was a fearful shadow of himself.

Novak is very close to being G0AT if he isn’t already(I wouldn’t argue) but you’re out of your league yet again mat4.

Noles massive achievement to be best ever doesn’t require your revisionism and embellishment.


elina Says:

However to be fair to mat4, Nole did beat Rogers best level on grass at Wimby last year (just not during his peak era) and he was very close to beating Rafa’s best at RG. Oh so close.


mat4 Says:

@elina:

I don’t believe in GOATs. Tennis changed too much in recent years, and it is a different sport. But that Novak is among the best ever already, yes.

How do you know when Fed peak was over? 2009? Ok, let’s say you’re right. From Novak first win to the end of 2009, their H2H was 5-5 and they didn’t play on grass.

I agree that Nadal peak finished somewhere in 2014. But not because he had a back injury — he played injury free until the end of the year, and the whole 2015 — but because 2014 was the year Novak improved his serve and forehand, and the year when players discovered the best game plan against him. His mental frailty did the rest, bit by bit. He still won the FO that year.

But it’s not a question of POV — and it’s not me. Just listen to the very serious commentaries of Sebastien Grosjen and Fabrice Santoro in this year Doha final. While I agree I don’t know much, let’s also agree that those two, who both played against Rafa — know a bit more that both you and me. Just listen to Grosjean’s technical explanations — not the gibberish you can hear from Wilander — he’s the best commentator out there.

So, to write that Nadal wasn’t at his peak at the FO 2015 — when players last longer, and a Wawrinka wins the FO at 30 — just because he lost to a much improved opponent he used to beat, isn’t really fair to Novak.

I didn’t write that in 2013, Rafa cherry-picked his tournaments and that Novak was “injured in the mental” after the FO. Be fair to your fav. His massive achievement don’t require your revisionism and embellishment.


jane Says:

fed’s 2009 was stellar: he reached all four slam finals, won the french open and wimbledon (the channel slam), and only lost the AO and USO finals in 5 setters to rafa and delpo. arguably his 2009 was better than 2008, or at least it’s debatable? he began 2010 really well, too, with an AO win. maybe in 2011 his level dropped a bit, as the main battles were between nadal and novak. but then fed reached number 1 again in 2012. i’d say fed’s biggest “valley” form-wise was 2013.


mat4 Says:

@jane:

Indeed. Had he beat DelPo, which was in his reach, he would have made the Grand slam in 2009-10.


calmdownplease Says:

‘calmdownplease the puppet master??? NOT!!’

Oh no I didn’t mean you,
I wouldn’t go near you.
Er, who ARE you again?


elina Says:

mat4, I have ADD so I didn’t read past that you don’t believe in G0AT which I don’t know how that’s relevant.

Novak is potentially already best of all time. I won’t debate that.

While he beat Nadal on clay at Nadal’s peak era in BO3, he was a shadow of himself with anxiety disorder at RG last year. Nadal said he had trouble controlling his ability to breath FFS. Almost anybody was beating Rafa in BO3 and BO5. Berdych and Fognini in slams even.

So don’t give us that revisionism. Just stop it. You do yourself a disservice.

While Roger was not at his peak era, Novak did beat him at Wimbledon at his very best level (and certainly would likely have beat him in his hey day 0-4-07, but there are no “woulds” in tennis).

Similarly, I won’t pretend to claim that Novak wouldn’t have beaten Rafa even if he was at his best in 2014.

Nobody knows.

So let’s not diminish what Novak is doing with claims of peak Fed and peak Rafa.

Novak’s accomplishments stand alone, many of them unmatched IMO.

I am a fan.


elina Says:

sorry 2015 not 2014.


mat4 Says:

@elina:

Nadal lost to:

Youzhny, in the QF of the USO 2006,
Gonzalez, in the QF of the AO 2007,
Ferrer, in thr 4th round of the USO 2007,
Tsonga, in the SF of the AO 2008,
Rosol, in the 2nd round of WB 2012,
Darcis, in the 1st round of WB 2013.

So it was nothing unusual for him to lose early against an outsider, even in his best year. I didn’t wrote here when he lost to any of the big four, or the winner of the tournament.


mat4 Says:

You mentioned GOAT first. I didn’t know how relevant it is, so I made clear my POV about the topic.


mat4 Says:

“he was a shadow of himself with anxiety disorder at RG last year”

Nadal has always been anxious. Read his biography. It didn’t stop him playing well.


elina Says:

Cherry picked to support a flawed position.

First three are one-ofs when Nadal was 20-21 yrs old and Nadal can’t play on grass post 2011 due to knees. Common knowledge among casual fans.

Last two years? Dolgo X2!!!, Mugro, Brown X2!!!, Klizan, Lopez, Coric, Berrer, Fognini X3!!! Verdasco X2!!!, Cuevas, Dzumhar.

Dzumhar!!! Really?

C’mon mat4, you seriously believe your own words? Really?

Man please. Your digging yourself deeper and credibility is falling faster than gravity on Jupiter. Stop before you make it even worse.

Nole deserves better than that from his own fan (even if he’s just an ex-pat fedfan no less).


elina Says:

mat4, please learn the difference between anxiety and an anxiety disorder and get back to me. No, on second thought please don’t.

You have your opinion.

And then there is the truth.

Let’s agree to leave it there.


elina Says:

My point was that I have the highest respect for Djokovic.

You had no point as far as I could tell regarding not believing in the term. Irrelevant in this context.


mat4 Says:

“he certainly did not pass fedal at their peak and he beat Nadal at RG in his absolute trough.”

Don’t agree.

“He had anxiety disorder.” Of course.

“You have your opinion. And then there is the truth.”

That’s what I wanted to write to you.

There’s always a reason why Rafa lost


mat4 Says:

Anyway, this debate started from nothing and leads nowhere.


elina Says:

I normally don’t respond to blatant strawman arguments like your last sentence but whatever. Here goes.

To start with, there’s always a reason everyone loses.

Novak beat Rafa seven times straight starting in 2011 when there was nothing wrong with Rafa except he wasn’t as good as Novak.

So that shoots down that.


elina Says:

@11:43, we can agree on that for sure.


Okiegal Says:

@calmdownplease 10:25

I am Jan Rowsey from Ada, Oklahoma and you are???? Lol

@mat4…..Yes, there is always a reason Rafa lost…..he got outplayed……..


mat4 Says:

@elina:

Let’s start afresh.

Comparing Federer and Djokovic is difficult: they peaked with a ten years difference, when tennis changed a lot. Their careers overlapped, but they belong to different generations.

About Rafa and Novak. They are almost the same age. They both had health problems for years. They peaked in different seasons.

So, what make you say that Novak couldn’t beat Rafa and Roger at their peak?

And what revisionism are you talking about?

@Okie:

I forgot to delete that last sentence. It has no point.


elina Says:

“So, what make you say that Novak couldn’t beat Rafa and Roger at their peak?”

I said that????

Not to my knowledge. Why couldn’t he.

Oh wait, another strawman argument.

Fool me once…


mat4 Says:

In the last post, I used “peak” in the meaning of “results peak,peak achievement, peak season”, not in the meaning of physical peak.


mat4 Says:

It’s definitely leading nowhere, or it is a misunderstanding from the very beginning.

“elina Says:

While I’m in awe of what Nole iOS achieving, he certainly did not pass fedal at their peak and he beat Nadal at RG in his absolute trough.”

I understood the sentence as: “his game is not yet at the level of Fedal’s, at their physical/gamewise peak”. “he beat Nadal at RG in his absolute trough.” made me think that this meaning is the right one.

If you wanted to say that, when their results were at their peak, his results were worse, and their rankings were better — it goes by itself. Just like when his own results peaked, their results and ranking dropped.

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