Andy Murray Says Ivan Lendl Will Help Him Beat Novak Djokovic
by Tom Gainey | June 14th, 2016, 10:19 am
  • 111 Comments

Andy Murray says having Ivan Lendl back on his team will help him get over the Novak Djokovic hurdle. Murray has lost to Djokovic in the last two Grand Slam finals – including the French Open – and overall in five of seven Major finals.

Speaking to the Guardian, here’s what Murray said.

“I don’t think it’s just mental,” Murray said. “Novak is playing great tennis, simple as that. There are many different parts of tennis: the psychological aspect is one, the physical aspect, technical, tactics. There are many things that go into the matches. The last few matches I’ve played against him they’re not all negative, there have been a lot of positives there and I think I’m getting closer, which is good and I think there’s a few things … Ivan can help me with that as well.

“The goal is to try to win the major events and right now Novak holds all four,” Murray said. “So to win the major events, you are more than likely going to have to get past him. That will be a big part of [Lendl’s job], but it’s about developing your game to a place where, when you do come up against the best players, you’re ready to do it. You don’t just play a different way the whole way through the tournament and then try to change your game style in the final.”

Djokovic leads Murray 24-10 winning 13 of the last 15. He’s also beaten Murray five times in seven tries in Grand Slam finals and overall is 8-2 against the Scot in Majors.

Murray begins his quest for a fifth Queen’s title later today against Nicolas Mahut. Rain, though, has delayed play.


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111 Comments for Andy Murray Says Ivan Lendl Will Help Him Beat Novak Djokovic

skeezer Says:

Does anyone now what Murrays H2H record was when he was under Lendl?


Dave Says:

I’m not sure what the exact time period was for Lendl coaching Murray was. If you go by 2012 and 2013, it was 5 to 4 for Djokovic.

In majors it was 2 to 2. Andy won Olympics. So it was almost completely even.


J-Kath Says:

If anyone is interested No. 2 seed at Queens is out. Can’t believe it. Stan was there with his new Celebrity Coach Richard K. Hope Andy doesn’t crash out too!!!


skeezer Says:

Thanks Dave


jane Says:

lendl joined murray at the end of 2011 and left after miami in 2014. during that time period (beginning 2012 through miami 2014) the h2h was 6-4 for novak, but obviously andy got his big wins over novak during that period.

he also got his only slam win over fed in 6 tries while he was with lendl – at the AO 2013 in the semis – and he won the olympics final over fed, too, of course. their h2h during the lendl period was 4-3 for fed.

finally, during his entire time with lendl, nadal played murray only ONCE, and murray won, at miami in 2012.

which is weird, because during fed’s time with edberg, i believe rafa played fed only once [or maybe (?) twice] during that time too.


Baa Says:

He has a great smart explanation.
He faces tough talents, not guys who just talk about
how great they are
with money (Tomic, Roddick).
Murray’s already a real champ.
He is not clueless. He tweeted that fed fans were uptight
because Fed got upstaged by novak.
He’s the opposite of the 2002-2004 clowns, who desperately
tried to look heroic but couldn’t play champion tennis.

He’s making decisions not because the media makes him
look good when he hires 5-10 coaches
or pretends to save the career to please the family & home fans.
Unlike the extremely annoying flukes like Gasquet and Roddick.


chrisford1 Says:

Jane as a longtime, knowledgeable tennis fan knows that past results do not guarantee future tennis success, something it took certain Fed fans 8 years to accept. (with some still holding out).
If Lendl comes in, does the same good job, no guarantee that Andy will revert back to winning the big ones a la the 2012-2013 time period. Federer has come off the horrible 2013 he had and won 5 straight against Andy. Novak has significantly improved his game in several skill areas, notably serve and net play, since 2014.
I know the argument others made that were fans of Andy that he has not regressed, others just got a bit better. There is definitely some truth to Andy having his own improvements – clay court play especially. But since Lendl left, he has been hammered by Nole and Fed. 13-2. and 5-0.

And even with Rafa hurting starting in 2014, he is 4-2 against Andy since then. And of course Nadal has a 17-7 record even with Andy avoiding a good chunk of matches with him in peak Rafa times (once in 2012, no matches in 2013, and 3 matches back in 2010)

For tennis overall, it would be best for the sport if Andy ups his game and becomes a real challenge for Nole again with Fedal already in their twilight years before a 32-33 year old Djokovic is checked by present rising players. Andy, of course is Novak’s near same age. And is a great, talented player better than anyone not named Novak at this moment – and an authentic person with “A level” character and conduct off court.
I hope Andy starts winning some big ones again, in 2017. For 2016, for me though, it’s Nole I wish gets all the big stuff. Which includes YEC and Cincinnati.


mat4 Says:

In that span, Andy was 17-16 against the top 10, 9-9 against the top 5, and 33-19 against the top 20.

He didn’t play Nadal, it was a walkover; 4-6 against Djokovic, 3-3 against Federer.


Anki Says:

Good move by Andy. I think he is the favourite for Wimbledon. After reaching last two slam finals, he is due to win one. Novak will be bit subdued I guess after winning the Djoker slam. He said his main goal next is the olympic gold medal.


jane Says:

oh, i didn’t realize it was a walkover versus nadal, mat4. thanks for clarifying that. it’s hard to say what the lendl effect will be, murray did get his biggest results while with him so i can see why he went back. however, i do hope mauresmo’s work on andy’s movement (clay mainly) and serve (first and second) don’t get overlooked.


mat4 Says:

In sport, nobody is due to anything. He has his chances, but he was the favourite last year too, and two years ago he was one of the main favourites.

Novak is a champion that plays every tournament to win. I don’t think he will be “subdued”, whatever it means. The Wimbledon trophy is the most coveted in tennis. Can’t imagine Novak skipping it for the OG.


mat4 Says:

Sorry, under Lendl Fed was 4-3 against Andy. Didn’t count well.

To gauge better this period, Murray won 7 tournaments, 2012: Brisbane (vs Dolgopolov), the OT (vs. Federer), the USO (vs Djokovic); 2013: Brisbane (Dimitrov), Miami (Ferrer), Queens (Cilic), Wimbledon (Djokovic).

He lost 5 finals, all to Djokovic and Federer.


mat4 Says:

Just a few stats. In about two years of work with Lendl, Andy won 7 tournaments. In a bit more that two years working with Becker, Djokovic won 24 tournaments:

- 6 slams,
- 2 WTF,
- 13 MS1000.

Not to mention the non calendar grand slam.

The Becker effect.


James Says:

I don’t think Lendl will be able to do much with Murray now. He can’t change his game at this stage. Even Fed, even with the racket change and so many coach changes – fundamentally his game remained the same, more reliant on a strong serve and punishing ground strokes. He could never retool his one weakness – the backhand – to hit it on the up, and generate power like Stan. That backhand has cost Federer many slams.

Djokovic has perhaps the most complete game ever. Doesn’t have as good and attractive attacking shots, but he has no weaknesses. And yes, mentally (and physically) he is stronger than anyone else.

Murray just can’t put it together like that.

Nadal lacked the shots, but more than made it up by his strong will, stamina, and that vicious lefty forehand.


J-Kath Says:

Not disputing any of the above except there ought to be recognition that Murray DID have a back operation. It was needed prior to when it took place, during and after.

Was he at his best before or immediately after? Look at his earlier H2H’s. Hence can any realistic slack be applied i.e. apres Lendl; during Amelie? Now he needs to be re-assessed as fully fit. A clean slate? Not suggesting by any means that he would have surpassed Nole or challenged Fed. or Rafa if this had not happened. But suggest we are now on an even playing field.

Others are not attacked e.g. Del Potro. Perhaps a tiny portion of similar fairness should be applied to Andy.

Just saying.


mat4 Says:

A little walk through Wikipedia, and a few articles from 2010, 2011, and you see that, at the time, the definition for “Grand Slam” was the official one, adopted by the ITF in 1982, that winning the “Grand Slam” was holding the four majors titles at the same time. Martina Navratilova even got a bonus of 1M for winning it (she won six slams in row, btw, but not four the same year).

Officially, then, Novak won the Grand slam. But while it would be the Grand slam if Rafa had won it, now, it’s a… career slam.

Here is what Paul Newman wrote in the Independent:

“If Nadal were to take possession of the full set of major titles what nobody would dispute would be the enormity of the achievement.”

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/tennis/nadal-this-will-be-my-only-shot-at-doing-the-grand-slam-2183008.html

O tempora, o mores! Just five and a half years later, and “the enormity of the achievement” was hailed by Steve Flink, noticed en passant in one line by Steve Tignor, while all the other great tennis journalists… what do we hear? Crickets… Just like in the ESPN video?


jane Says:

“That backhand has cost Federer many slams” – james, would you say that this is mainly due to his losses to nadal, since nadal’s lefty forehand, which bounced up so high, exploited fed’s “weaker” backhand wing in particular?

ironically. i thought he was hitting his backhand quite brilliantly in the last couple of years with edberg, but we never got to see a big rafa-fed match up during that time stretch of mid-2014-mid-2015 — just to see the match up with the new racquet, fed’s more aggressive tactics of coming forward with much more frequency, and a little more solidity on that backhand wing.


SG1 Says:

It’s true that Novak isn’t getting his due in this regards. TSN was way more hung up on the career slam than him winning 4 in a row. Winning four slams in a row is more rare. Particularly in the open era.

The media doesn’t understand and basically doesn’t care about tennis. I don’t see Novak’s 4 in a row as the text book definition of a grand slam but:

1) Novak doesn’t care what I or we think (..can you blame him) and
2) Winning 4 in a row is a slam of some sort, just not a grand slam


mat4 Says:

J-Kath:

You can check Andy’s stats in 2012, 2013, 2014 and 2015 on tennisabstract.com. The difference are very tiny, and the only season where he fared a bit worse is 2014.

The stats are almost identical in 2013 and 2015.

There is nothing here directed against Andy, but mostly against the hype of the “Lendl effect”, which was mostly irrelevant tennis wise.

Andy was playing good tennis, and he would have won a slam one day or the other. He needed a bit of luck, and it was bound to happen one day or the other.


mat4 Says:

@SG1:

OFFICIALLY, winning four in a row IS THE GRAND SLAM.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Slam_%28tennis%29#Non-calendar_year_Grand_Slam

1984: “but, as Lloyd gracefully acknowledged, Martina’s victory was also historically significant. By winning the French Open, Navratilova, 27, had become one of only five players in tennis history to win the Grand Slam of tennis: consecutive victories in the world’s four major tournaments, Wimbledon, and the French, U.S. and Australian Opens.”

2011: “Most traditionalists insist that the “Grand Slam” should refer only to winning all four titles in a calendar year, although the constitution of the International Tennis Federation, the sport’s governing body, spells out that “players who hold all four of these titles at the same time achieve the Grand Slam”.”

Footnotes 9, 11 for quotes.


chrisford1 Says:

Quick ode to Nadal referencing James saying lacking the shots save his forehand. One skill set among many that deserve tribute to Nadal is his on the fly defense to offense passing shot. No one could hit those on the full run to the corners, moving back at the same time, painting the other sides lines passing shots Rafa could.
A combination of raw strength, artistry, speed, and touch. Maybe no one ever had a better one of that sort….as good as Borg, Connors, Lendl, Djokovic, and Murray were with it….Nadal was better.


jane Says:

mat4 i have always understood it like this:

1. a career slam means *at some point* within one’s career, potentially years apart, the player wins one of each of the four slams.
2. a calendar slam is when a player wins each of the four slams from january through september in the same year, holding all four at once in this order: AO, FO, Wim, USO.
3. finally, a grand slam is when a player holds all four grand slams at once; however in this case the order of winning them can vary.

when rafa was going for it in 2010-11 it would have been FO, W, USO, and AO (which he didn’t win). when fed was going for it, each time it would have been W, USO, AO, and FO but he always lost at the FO, and of course both times novak was going for it, he was following the same sequence as fed, completing “the grand slam” this year.


mat4 Says:

@jane:

That’s the official definition of the ITF, so you understood perfectly.

I was afraid to be biased as a Novak fan, so I was making the difference between a Grand slam and a Non calendar slam. But the Grand slam doesn’t have officially to be achieve the same year. So, it is the Grand slam, and the Calendar Grand slam.


chrisford1 Says:

Mat4 – It is consistent with other ITF sanctioned records that acknowledge streaks are not confined to those in only one calendar year.
Makes sense. Why say, for example, that a hardcourt win streak can only start on January 1st, or must end Dec 31 while it continues across years?
I think this Slam bit is also one of those records that was subject to overdefinition in the amateur era when tennis and golf did have seasons – somebody did it, and stats nuts added extraneous requirements that had nothing to do with the actual difficulty, and called it “more prestigious”.
Tennis actually borrowed this term from golf, where it was invented as a term by some hack journalist in 1934 trying to find the most grandiose words for Bobby Jones, a Fedlike worshipped amateur, for capture of the biggest 4 events in Britain and America. Bobby had done the grandest of feats, the hack thought, and slammed the door in the face of other competitors, ergo: GRAND SLAM!!!

Coming back to today, it is a bit hilarious to see the length Fed worshipping hacks went to to ignore Novak’s non-calendar year Slam.
One reason why I want to see him get Wimbledon just to hear the same writers sniff that 5 Slams in a row is really a meaningless streak and the real glory would be only satisfied with 4 Slams in 2016..which of course Novak will fail and choke on just like Serena because neither are as courageous and resolute as Fed.


skeezer Says:

Observation; hardly ever seen a post by u that doesn’t have the name Roger Federer in it.
Infactuation, love and admiration. Keep it up.


Vami Says:

@ skeezer
I’ll keep it up. Roger never won a grand slam.


skeezer Says:

Vami,
Sounds good. I’ll keep it up too..
Neither did Novak. And he never won a masters either ;)


Anki Says:

@mat4 I just feel he might go in to a minor dip in form after winning almost everything. Who knows how motivated and driven Novak will be for wimbledon.


Dave Says:

I have to disagree. Novak’s drive will be super high for Wimbledon. The pressure is released from winning the French Open. I actually wouldn’t be surprised if Novak swings more freely this year and wins Wimbledon more comfortably then in times past.


Ronn Says:

I agree, Dave. All the pressure is off Djoko heading to Wimbledon and he is on cloud 9. Depending on the draw, he should really breeze through this year although he always has to be careful if he meets a big server in the early rounds. Federer is sub-par and Rafa won’t be playing and Stan looks out of form. And I just don’t see Murray making it to 3 MAJORS finals in a row (when has he ever done that?)and he might get kncked out early.


chrisford1 Says:

Meanwhile, Djokovic follows his different path of skipping buildup grass competition. Instead, lots of vacation time, meet Becker and practice a bit, do Boodles, a little more practice, then Wimbledon early rounds.
On his vacation phase now, posting vid of his wife Jelena’s boisterous 30th birthday party back in Sebia. Wife is no shrinking violet either, not afraid of the stage. Sing along with Novak and the band leader loud, demonstrative Balkan/Russian style. Make speeches

blob:https%3A//www.facebook.com/9a32a518-0cb0-47e4-b984-ef89fc6b39c8

BTW – Boodles is looking good. Delpo and Nole, plus I am sure organizers and Nole want a little playtime with the promising newcomers invited – Coric, Zverev, Kyrgios.


chrisford1 Says:

Hmm, that link is bad too. Well, it’s on Djokovic’s social media sites. He is acting like a guy with all the pressure off him.


danica Says:

I don’t see why Andy wouldn’t be in the finals at Wimbledon. The fact that he never accomplished it before really has nothing to do with the possibility of playing 3 in a row.


J-Kath Says:

Mat 4

The changes are in the H2H especially with Nole. Most comments are fine, except for those who are constantly dismissive of any player that they themselves don’t support. I think this is why a number of regular supporters of Tennis-X are leaving.

Are you watching Queens and Halle?


Anki Says:

Haha, Novak and Jelena are hilarious. Happy, fun loving, full of life. Would be a historic achievement if Novak could win the Wimbledon, depends a lot on his draw and mindset he is post winning french open.


mat4 Says:

Here, I’ll come back to the assertion “that the media doesn’t care about tennis”.

There are tennis sites, specialized press, etc. On Eurosport, Laurent Vergne wrote a long article dedicated to the “Noleslam”. There were three articles, an infograph among them. Flink wrote about it too, although less. But Eurosport — where Vergne works — retransmitted the FO. The Tennischannel too.

In the other media, we saw different reactions. British media mainly acknowledged the Noleslam, In general, English tennis journalists are good. They are biased, but in a normal way. It’s quite normal that they root for Murray, and that’s what the public wants too.

So, it’s quite strange that Tignor didn’t emphasized it. Usually, in big tournaments, he doesn’t write about Djokovic until the end — semi or final. But a grand slam — even a Noleslam — deserved a paragraph. Not a line and a half.

He wrote that Djokovic copied and passed Murray in the following article about Murray. Murray deserves a long article, it’s quite OK, but anybody who follows tennis knows that Novak was always in front of Andy. Hiring tennis greats as coaches is fashionable today, but, when it started, these were all individual decisions, based on a gambit: players assessed how much these stars could help them. Andy chose Lendl because they had a similar career, Federer hired Edberg because they had a similar style, and Vajda hired Becker because he thought he could help on multiple aspects, and, especially, because all other coaches wouldn’t or couldn’t work with Novak. Some nuances are necessary, from time to time.

Tignor spend most of his time speaking about Thiem in the following podcast, and he repeated his assertions from the Andy article. Not a word about a Noleslam. At least, I didn’t hear it.

I believe that all of this is a PR job. A good one. Google searches about Novak give the four, five first results about Andy, even when you exclude such results from the search. Negative articles from unknown journals are on the first search page. No Noleslam. There are rumours about Novak changing his management company, for… Federer’s. I don’t know how much it is important now. Some of his big endorsement contracts are expiring. Is it only a fight for money?

So, what’s happening?


mat4 Says:

@J-Kath:

I thought about my comments mainly.

Yes, I know, some posters are… difficult to read. I even begged you not to read some of my answers to a few posters because I will perhaps write something I don’t mean, and certainly wouldn’t write in other occasions. But I decided to completely ignore them from now on, so I guess my post will be palatable.

Yes, I watched Mahut-Murray yesterday. Perhaps if I have some time today. I would like to see Raonic and Kyrgios, the third set. I am interested by their return game.


mat4 Says:

… my posts… return games?…
——————————–

I believe we should behave they do in marketing: praise our player, avoid other players. But I am the first not to do it.


mat4 Says:

The foundation of Novak’s recent success from 2014 is his serve. He finished 5th of 6th in the % of holds in the last two years. It was a weakness, and has become a strength. His first serve is more precise and very difficult to read. Federer acknowledged it after the WB final 2014.

There is really no secret where Novak improved: open stance FH, serve, better patterns after the serve, improved transition and net game. A bit here, a bit there.


Colin Says:

The quote from The Independent posted by Mat4 proves something unrelated to tennis: that Mister Newman is not as literate as one would expect from someone writing in a respectable paper like the Indy.

He thinks “enormity” refers to size, but it doesn’t. It means, according to my dictionary “the quality or character of being outrageous;extreme wickedness.

The good news is that it looks as if play will at least start today. It’s dry so far, and there are patches of blue sky. Plenty of clouds too, but they don’t look all that threatening.


Colin Says:

Needless to say, I betrayed my own claim to literacy. I missed the quotation marks at the end of the dictionary definition.


mat4 Says:

@Colin:

It’s a loanword from French from the late XV century, and the pejorative meaning is the original one. But I guess that, since the meaning has evolved in French, Newman used it as a “false friend”. It’s just like “réaliser” in French, where the meaning “to understand” comes from English, and is not appropriate.


nesh Says:

Andy can win if Lendl starts to play.


Ronn Says:

You could be right, Danica, but Murray is no Djoko. Making it to 3 straight MAJORS finals would be quite an accomplishment but his form on grass looks a little spotty from what I’ve seen of his few matches.


mat4 Says:

Noleslam revisited: Tignor wrote a paragraph about the Noleslam, not a line and a half. I reread it to be sure.


Okiegal Says:

Enormity…..living larger than life???


chrisford1 Says:

Matt4 – There were some side mentions in Anglosphere papers of the Nole Slam, but the cognitive disconnect to me was writers focusing on the career Slam and the Roland Garros monkey off Djokovic’s back – much more than covering and celebrating that Grand Slam achieved.

And it was nothing like the amount of ink and broadcaster breath devoted to Federer’s withdrawal from the French and Rogers Slam consecutive streak.


mat4 Says:

@CF1:

You described it much better than I am able myself. It’s all a question of proportions, indeed. (While I fight a terrible war with your language, I am losing it, unfortunately.)


Giles Says:

https://twitter.com/nbcsports/status/742888132660461569
Read comments. It may enlighten joker fans. Lol


Dave Says:

mat4,

I was thinking about something the other day and wanted to get your thoughts on it. It’s just my opinion, but a strong one. I actually feel that Nole’s main focus is surpassing 17 slams. I think that’s what he so completely focused towards acheiving. That’s why he won’t take his foot of the gas right now. This year and next year are his big years to get closer to the mark. If he win Wimbledon, I don’t see him feeling pressure at the U.S. Open. He will look at it as adding another slam to his career total and getting 1 closer to Federer. Even if he were to win 6 or 7 in a row, Nole feels that he needs to break the 17 to surpass Federer. Nothing else will do for him. This is just my opinion. But I do feel strongly about it at this point. Even if he win 6 or 7 in a row, it’s not like he will get the recognition anyways. Which is totally fine.


mat4 Says:

@Dave:

We will have to wait and see. But the guy is a freak of strong will, work discipline and motivation. He has reworked his basics at 28, changed his serve motion, changed his stance on the FH…

I believe he wants the slams record, the weeks at no 1, the MS1000 record, everything. He won 12 MS1000 finals in a row. I wouldn’t be surprised if he makes 10 slams finals in a row, and wins 9 of them.

But it is wishful thinking, I guess.


Giles Says:

” Even if he win 6 or 7 in a row……..”. Daniel you are so amusing sometimes with your BS, really.
Maybe you think joker is the only active player ATM ?
Lendl is back, so let’s see.


Dave Says:

Mat4,

The other stuff becomes automatic when you are winning majors. Weeks at number 1 will go hand in hand with winning majors. He definitely wants the other records as well. For sure. But I feel he has extra motivation at the slams. There are only 4 per year up for grabs. There are 9 masters 1000′s. He already has that record and will continue to add to it. The slams are what he wants the most. No question about it in my mind.


Anki Says:

6, 7 in a row??? Wow far fetched. He is 29, be great if he could win 2 or 3 more grand slam titles


SG1 Says:

Mat4,

My blog was intended to praise Djokovic for doing something so rarely done.

In any case, journalists don’t decide what a grand slam is (or isn’t). As I had mentioned, Novak’s 4 in a row is a type of grand slam but not an actual “GRAND SLAM”. To call Novak’s 4 major’s in a row a “GRAND SLAM” is to devalue what Rod Laver did. Winning all 4 majors in one year is more difficult because of the added constraint of time. Any time you add a constraint to a task, it becomes more difficult.

I am disappointed that the media hasn’t given Novak more attention. 4 slams in a row is an incredible accomplishment we may not see again for a very long time.


Willow Says:

I wonder what Dave wouldve thought /said, the other Dave as in Fed fan, not the one whos here now ? ….


calmdownplease Says:

‘looks a little spotty from what I’ve seen of his few matches.’

well, he’s only had the one!
(not that you watched it)
And he was fine, straight sets against someone coming off a title is not too shabby.
Andy getting to the final at Wimbles would NOT be a major achievement either ‘Ronn’
hehehehe


calmdownplease Says:

‘I don’t think Lendl will be able to do much with Murray now. He can’t change his game at this stage’

Irrelevant.
It’s not about the tennis, it’s a mental lift, nothing more. But that is everything that he needs
Lendl can do that for him for verily he has done it before.


mat4 Says:

@SG1:

Sorry, but written words are sometimes treacherous. The tone wasn’t meant to be “that one”. My knowledge of English is passable at best, so misunderstandings are to be expected.

Just like I wrote, the ITF decided in 1982 that any “four in a row” would be the Grand slam. That’s official. And just an hour ago, a few tennis journalists tweeted that the fact that the “four in a row”, however it is called, has been ignored, had nothing to do with fans and the audience.

One can just wonder why.


mat4 Says:

@Willow:

Don’t mention the other Dave, please. I argued once with him about Rafa (I maintained that he was the greatest clay court ever, while he was for Borg; futile dispute, since it’s not the same game, the same tennis any more), and I still remember it.

But he was always ready to give facts, and he was perhaps biased, but in a acceptable way. The problem was that he could lose patience after two posts.


Willow Says:

Mat4 he was a very clever and knowledgeable poster no question, and did back up his posts with facts, however it was very heavily Federer biased, and from a Federer fan point of view, and god forbid you were aloud to disagree with him on anything, and Federer was the best, but no other players were aloud to be given credit for their achievements, or aloud anything at all in fact, it was all about Federer, everything was in his eyes, his way or the high way ! ….


Daniel Says:

Giles,

It was Dave who said 6, 7 in a row. I don’t think I have even posted in this thread. LOL
Obssession much?! 😉


Dave Says:

I don’t actually think Nole will win 6 or 7 in a row. I’m saying if he did, he wouldn’t get the same recognition as other. Which really doesn’t matter.


Daniel Says:

I think of he actually does the Grand Slam this year or the Golden Slam as Graffi did, no way press will be quiet. He would win hands down the sportsman of the year, 14 Slams and some would already consider him GOAT


Dave Says:

So if you think he wins 6. Than why wouldn’t he win in Australia? Which is by far his best slam?


Giles Says:

Daniel. Lol. Please accept my apologies.
Dave. My post to Daniel should be redirected to you.


Daniel Says:

No Dave, I just think that if for this year he actually pull of the Grand Slam / Golden Slam media will have to “fall at his feet” per se. There is no way the coverage for that be any smaller than the coverage after French Open.

Australia is the Slam where he is 6-0 in finals. Also think he will be huge favorite for RG next year as well.

The thing os this Wimby and next USO. Wimby, even with his last 3 finals in a row he seems more vulnerable and USO seems there is something there that bothers him (past experience, crowds, whatever). I think the next two will be harder for him than this AO-RG combo. But I stikl think at least one of them he wins this year also, as I thought since beginning of the year.


elina Says:

Novak will be G0AT over Roger only if he can win 17 slam in a row to make up for his non-Fed like qualities but only if Roger does not make the top 20 this year end for the 16th consecutive time.


Daniel Says:

If Novak wins Wimby-Oplympics-Cincy-USO he will have 14, Golden Slam, Career Masters (30 masters) and ony records between and Undisputed GOAThood will be total weeks as #1 and 17 (3 nore Slams). With thise titles even if he finishes with 15-16 and Roger doesn’t add anynore he will be GOAT in my eyes. Most complete resume ever and if one of his 15-16 are another RG for double career Slam, case is closed for good.

This nect two months are THE most important ones Djoko will play after the pressure of RG is out.

But qunning back to back Olympics, Cincy and USO in 30 days will be very hard to do.


Dave Says:

It wouldn’t surprise me if Nole skips Cincy this year. If he is super tired after the Olympics, it’s wouldn’t surprise me at all. He will pick rest over being burned out. Although if you put things in perspective a bit, he is really only playing 2 weeks in a row. Then a week off, than U.S. Open. So after Wimbledon, doesn’t get get 3 or 4 weeks of rest? Don’t you think he will skip the Rogers Cup this year? I also really don’t see him playing Davis Cup at all.


Van Persie Says:

WB,

If you read this. 1-1 RO vs Switzerland

Some more off the topic: I like CDP a lot. He’s blunt.

Mat 4,

Every poster from here has his own sensitivity. I do not think, we have sociopates here. Perhaps some of the posters are more polite then others. That’s all.


Van Persie Says:

Am not enthousiastic about Lendl and Murray, because I do not care about that atm. I am still glad, that Novak got the FO.


Daniel Says:

Dave,

Agree, ge should skip Canada and get rested for Olympics. Depending on how it goes and how taxing it is skip Cincy.

Olympics is R64, so is 6 matches with final best of 5. Basically similar to IW with Miami with one more set needed in finals and first rounds have a day rest.


Okiegal Says:

I am still glad that Rafa has nine French Opens!!


Willow Says:

Rafa did the channel slam twice, in 08, 10, he also went unbeaten on grass in 08 when he also won Queens as well as SW19, IN 2013 Murray also went unbeaten on grass winning Q and W B2B, Fed also won the channel slam in 09 ….


J-Kath Says:

Nesh@7.30am

“Andy can win is Lendl starts to play.

Was funny and clever – even though I am an Andy fan I had a laugh.


J-Kath Says:

“if” not “is”.


chrisford1 Says:

Mat4 – No need to ever be self conscious about any limitations you have with English. And it not being your 1st language. No one has any problems here understanding you. And appreciating some of the in depth tennis knowledge you have and your ability to analyze a player’s weaknesses and faults in similar depth. You might be the best regular commentor here for those matters.

You have no idea how horrible my French is, but in France they seemed to understand me on things past the standard tourist phrases on visits, as painful as it was to their ears.


Vami Says:

“The bias problem in tennis”
https://goo.gl/13kbcw


SkeEZER Says:

Vami,
I find your comment and link, ignorant and offensive. Tennis is bias? It is one of the few Professional sports that has global participants.
The link? It is obviously a bias in itself.
Getting tired of seeing same ole repeated complaints that Novak doesn’t get enough love, and the nolefanatics are spamming every thread with it. Well, it is what it is. I feel confident his answer to it all is keep winning, get 5 in a row, get 20 Slams, etc.
That is the ultimate statement and answer.


jane Says:

that blog is written by a fed-fan, in his words: “I am not a writer nor do I have any pretensions to being a journalist. Just a lifelong tennis fan, a big Borg, Edberg, Sampras, and Federer fan”

this particular piece is about a western perspective/bias in tennis.

not sure if you read it skeezer, but it covers sharapova, navratilova, lendl, ivanisevic, kafelnikov, safin, cilic, troicki, djokovic, myskina, kuznetsova, jankovic, berdych and others. and it’s quite interesting. it’s not about novak being unloved; that’s not it’s focus. it’s a very broad point of view.


SkeEZER Says:

I read it. And yes its bias is against the west, why, you got me. Where is all the other countries? Italy, Spain, Swiss, American, Aus, etc,etc. I don’t care what fan he says he is a fan of, its what he wrote that makes his bias known. Easily seen.


SkeEZER Says:

Hope Lendl takes Murray to the next level, wanna see that big FH I know he has and a locked in service game.


jane Says:

i saw that earlier skeezer, but that blog is not focused only on doping scandals. it’s a wider lens than that. anyhow, it get it. you don’t agree, which is fine.


mat4 Says:

@skeezer:

The country that covers the most its athletes are the… US. Carl Lewis (got a pass after being found doping), Marion Jones (the Balco case was so big, she couldn’t be covered any more), Florence Griffith, Armstrong (read Tyler Hamilton book, “The Secret Race”), etc.

The US are the Mecca of doping — but you won’t find it in the NY Times.

What the author of jane’s article wrote are things that are widely accepted outside “the Western world”, especially countries that still have free press (something that doesn’t exist in the US, or France, or Britain, where the press is controlled by a few men or corporations).

I was myself victim of the myth, the hubris of our Western world: our hubris that we are the one that defined civilisation.

All these doping affairs, the Russian hooligans in France, the FIFA scandals, are a movement directed to obtain that the Word Cup is not organized by Russia, but by the US. Photos of Russian hooligans at the EC in France are telling (nobody has been arrested so far, btw) about this subject.


mat4 Says:

When I came in the communist East, intellectuals had the habits to read in reverse any news they found in the press. If the press wrote that… de Gaulle was bad, they knew he was good. You should develop the same habit: when the press says something — try to think the opposite. It’s very often much closer to the truth.


mat4 Says:

BTW, skeezer, are you also SKeEZER or is it somebody else using your moniker?


mat4 Says:

@skeezer:

We know that people don’t accept informations that are outside their world-views. You need a lot of training to just read such contents. Why don’t you try to go point by point, and say what’s false in that article?

Just to notice: the author didn’t mention the case of the Serb Monica Seles, who is very interesting in many ways. From her origins (hidden in her Wiki page in English), to the fact that Günther Parche walked free after the stabbing.


mat4 Says:

@VP:

“Mat 4,

Every poster from here has his own sensitivity. I do not think, we have sociopates here. Perhaps some of the posters are more polite then others. That’s all.”

Sarah, you obviously didn’t argue with the “old Dave” (not the Dave posting now). I don’t understand well to which posts of mine you refer.


Van Persie Says:

Hi Mat 4,

Example: your last paragraph from 14 June, 11:15 am, thread Andy Murray is back with Ivan Lendl.
Was not the first time, that U used that word.

Question: do you think there are sensible and “non”sensible posters on Tennis X? Many other posters use the “sensible” word, for poster, which they like. Tbh, I find this funny :) That’s all.

I am sure that CDP or TB (I apologize to both for using them as “samples”) are also sensible persons, they just use another manner of “speech”.


mat4 Says:

@VP:

Sarah, I don’t understand you here. Did you misunderstood sensible for sensitive?


mat4 Says:

I don’t use this word for posters which I like or don’t like.

AndyMira is a Rafan, and I never commented her posts so far. I don’t see how (s)he would qualify for a poster I like, nor for a poster I don’t like.

Skeezer is a Fedfan. We often disagree, but he has his arguments, I have mine, and it’s all fine. We both post here for years, and I’d be sorry if he left.

Travis is very ironic, and yes, I like him. I also like your posts most of the time. But I don’t make differences between AndyMira, Skeezer, Travis and you.


mat4 Says:

When I use the word “sensible”, it’s for posters that write insightful comments — even when I don’t agree with them.


Van Persie Says:

Mat4, No worries. I did not feel discriminated, because you did not mention me in the first place. Sensitive, sensible…quite the same for me. My point was more, every poster is sensible.


mat4 Says:

@VP:

Because it’s the same word in Romanian, sensibil.

I don’t agree with your point. Not all men are the same.


danica Says:

Vami,
great article about bias. Spot on!

And please, please, do not even go there that the article is biased in its own right. I happen to agree with the blogger 100%. If for no other reason because it was also my own experience.


mat4 Says:

Hi, danica, you, sensible poster! And sensitive…


Van Persie Says:

Ok Mat4, I respect your opinion. Just saw, that many posters use that word on this site, quite often. My point was more, all posters are sensible, especially when it comes to their favorites.


Van Persie Says:

P.S. good article, Vami. Thanks for sharing


mat4 Says:

@Sarah:

I repeat I don’t agree, especially in the case you describe.

BTW, why should you feel discriminated? I read your posts. I am aware when you write on a phone and when you do it on your computer or tablet. While I don’t know well your country, I respect it, and know at least a bit of its history and its culture.


mat4 Says:

You write in excellent English, you speak German, and from some of your posts, I can guess your high level of formal education. Your last question was also a legitimate one, although the examples you gave were not well chosen. So it was all ok.


Van Persie Says:

Mat 4,

I just explained, that I did not feel discriminated…I talked to you about your post from 14 June, and today you gave examples, who you might consider sensible. See post from 6:20 am. And it was not about, if you respect me or my country :) Just wanted to understand, why so many use the word “sensible” so often here. Not more, nor less.


Van Persie Says:

P.S. for Mat 4,

Sensible has his origins in word “sensitive”, I see that now. It does not mean the quite the same anymore.
In German and Romanian : sensibel, sensibil means sensitive.

Given the meaning of sensible: practical, realistic, and so one, I cannot totally agree with your examples from 6;20 AM. But I respect your point of view.


mat4 Says:

@VP:

In grammar (and therefore logic), there is a thing we call “presupposition”. When you address to me, even when you write “many posters”, the presupposition is that I am one of these posters. When you write “I don’t feel discriminated” — although you were not mentioned — it means you could feel discriminated.

So, I tried to answer the best I could to the questions you asked, and also those you didn’t ask but that were presupposed in your posts. I couldn’t know if it was the “foreign language” effect or not, so I wanted to make things clear.


Van Persie Says:

Yes Mat4,

Of course I meant you among the many posters, since I mentioned one of your posts. I did read many times the words “sensible posters”. Tbh, I thought it is more about being sensitive. t was not my wish to

“When you write “I don’t feel discriminated” — although you were not mentioned — it means you could feel discriminated.” I am a “direct” person, but you cannot know that. I would have told you, If I felt discriminated.:)


mat4 Says:

@VP:

If you meant Skeezer, you’re wrong.

Skeezer is first and foremost a Fedfan. He has always shown respect for Novak, until recently, when he got provoked post after post and insulted from time to time. Then it all got out of control.

I feel sad that he argues with Nolefans I like. I would understand verbal passes against Travis — they both are funny, but it got worse.


Van Persie Says:

For me Skeezer is sensitive, but not sensible. See, it is all subjective. I might be sensible for you and not for Skeezer.

Am off now. Have to work :(

Have a great day


mat4 Says:

It’s not subjective. I post here for years, and I know Skeezer better.

Have a good day.

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