Federer Falls To Haas In Stuttgart Grass Opener
by Staff | June 14th, 2017, 7:11 pm
  • 141 Comments

In his first match in months, Roger Federer was shocked by good friend Tommy Haas 2-6, 7-6(8), 6-4 in his opening match at the Stuttgart grass event.

Federer had let by a set and a break, then held a match point in the second set tiebreaker. The Swiss held 7 breakpoints in the third but couldn’t convert, and the 39-year-old Haas converted his lone chance to collect his fourth career win over Federer.

“I thought it was a typical grass-court match today. Rallies weren’t very long and it was decided on a serve there or a return here. If you don’t take your chances like I didn’t, leading a set and a break, you really only have yourself to blame at the end. You’ve got to acknowledge the fact that he was a bit better. It’s quite frustrating, but that’s the way it goes sometimes,” Federer said.

“It wasn’t all bad, not at all. There were definitely some good moments, but I definitely was not as sharp as I was hoping to be in maybe the big moments, or the moment when I had the lead and where I feel I should have been cruising from that moment on. I definitely made some crucial mistakes and judgment errors.

“Tommy definitely played well when he had to. He hung around and was able to push me in the second set. In the third set I couldn’t get up to the level I wanted. I should have somehow broken him once, but I wasn’t able to do that.”

For Haas, it was extra special to get the win in front of his home fans.

“I’m a little bit speechless that I beat him today. It’s been awhile since I have won back-to-back matches and to do it today against Roger is obviously one of my career highlights. It’s a very special feeling,” Haas said.

“At the same time he’s a very close friend of mine so it doesn’t feel like such a celebration in that sense. This is my last phase, so the emotions are different from what they would have been a few years ago. This is sport. Unfortunately, one person has to lose and lately a lot of the time it has been me. I was happy to be out there in front of a German crowd playing against a friend, an idol, a legend, the greatest ever. It’s fantastic.”

Fellow German Philipp Kohlschreiber also advanced as did Luas Pouille and Mischa Zverev.

Tomas Berdych and Grigor Dimitrov are in action Thursday.

In Den Bosch, Mischa’s brother Alex who curiously didn’t play in Germany, was a winner over Adrian Mannarino 6-2, 6-3. The 20-year-old now meets Julien Benneteau.


You Might Like:
Roger Federer And Tommy Haas Play Tennis On Top Of Building In Stuttgart [Video]
Cilic Wins In Den Bosch, Haas Out In Stuttgart; Zverev Bros In SFs
Federer, 0-1 on Grass This Season, Heads to Halle as 8-time Champion; ATP Preview
Rafael Nadal Set To Open Grass Season Today In Stuttgart Against Marcos Baghdatis
Federer Back with Doozy of a Draw on Grass at Stuttgart; ATP Previews

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141 Comments for Federer Falls To Haas In Stuttgart Grass Opener

Humble Rafa Says:

Silence here speaks for itself. People are in shock.


skeezer Says:

At least he played in a grass tourney, did you? Nah, you didn’t want to do your
practice makes perfect thingy.


Humble Rafa Says:

I am in the process of admiring my own greatness of winning 10 FOs. You have a problem?


Sivaji Says:

is it common that Federer loose his first match after break??.. Against Alex before AO and in Dubai and now this one..


Vidzy Says:

Hahahahaha @ HR


RZ Says:

Any opportunity to see Tommy Haas play another match is good for me. :-)


Michael Says:

Well such things happen when you come back after a break. Haas is a very good player especially on Grass Courts although he is now well past his best. I am sure Roger will take this defeat in his stride and will come back strongly.


skeezer Says:

“I am in the process of admiring my own greatness of winning 10 FOs. You have a problem?”
No.
But trust me, you won’t admire yourself for long. Remember? Grass is kryptonite for you. First rounders and wild cards at a grass Slam have had your number. So much for a supposed all time great, no?
Maybe this year you’ll get Dustin Brown in the first rd.


skeezer Says:

^again.
But then again there is always the fishes to go back to.
#catch&release


Margot Says:

RZ: the greatest player never to win a slam?


Navdeep Says:

The greatest player never to win a slam! I would go with Nalbandian


Margot Says:

Navdeep: Alto a fine player, Haas has the edge for me because his career was effectively ended by a terrible car accident. Whereas Nalbandian’s was……ended by a liking for the good life? ;)


Amit Says:

I dont know really what some posters are talking about.. Kryptonite?? Lolzzz!! Actually this word was introduced into the current era by Rafa for Fed,considering the way Rafa vanquished Fed in most of their matches since their first meeting,lol

And yeah grass is surely not so much of a kryptonite to Rafa as clay is to Federer,considering that on the so-called kryptonitic surface Rafa has 2 titles,out of which one has come at Fed’s expense in 2008, and funnily enough it could a been 3 titles at Wimbledon easily keeping in view how close the 07 Wimbledon final was between the master Federer and the so-called grass fearing Nadal,lol and Nadal has as many finals in Wimbledon as federer has in RG,only difference Nadal has done way better in his wimhledon finals than federer did ever in FO finals. If grass were Nadal’s kryptonite,then really it would be Rafa who would have embarrassingly lost a Wimbledon final instead of the “versatile” federer who was routed 6-3 6-1 6-0 in 08 RG..

Seems like Fed has clay,Nadal,weather,food and many other kryptonites over his career,and probably even djokovic has become his kryptonite… Lol😜😜😜😂😂😂


Navdeep Says:

Margot,
Agree with your assessment but I’m going with Nalbandian because he showed that he can win the big titles by defeating the big 4 players like in Madrid and WTF


gonzalowski Says:

ruuners up without a slam I found:

Soderling 2RG
Corretja 2 RG
Philippousis 1WB 1 UsO
Pioline 1Wb 1Uso
Ferrer 1 rG

hmm as best of these I choose… Soda!


gonzalowski Says:

Nabaldian is good too


gonzalowski Says:

Amit agree a lot with you,
I remember a press declaration from Fed saying more or less that his problem wasn’t the clay, his problem was Rafa.
And these last years the problem for Rafa has been grass as surface IMO, because of his knees mainly.


J-Kath Says:

Humble Rafa @ 10.31pm

Star comment of the year – loved it.


Margot Says:

gonzalowski: I saw Pioline in the veteran’s doubles at RG a few years ago and he was FABULOUS!


madmax Says:

A strange, but not unexpected result. Taking 10 weeks off and then playing a tournament – isn’t this Roger’s style of late? A huge wake up call Roger. Time to ditch the breaks and – as he has given his interview – no more breaks for the season where he hopes to recreate another slam possibility and a sunshine double . whichever tournaments he plays.

Halle, come on Roger. Leading to Wimbledon. This has to be his focus now.

I know the practice has been regular, but the intensity needs to be stepped up if he is to be in with a chance. Rafa is on a role, no doubt that Murray will return and I fully expect Novak to be in the mix, even possibly peaking at the right time come Wimbledon.

Not panicking right now, but have so much hope for Wimbledon. Roger had better head the warning against Haas. Whenever he plays and has played Haas, it has always been close. This does note


madmax Says:

Meant to say that, ‘This does not surprise me with Haas’. His swan song, so far, hugely successful and always a player that should never be underestimated.

*a roll* *heed* – too many breaks! :-(


Giles Says:

Fed will be 36 in August!! Does he have another slam in him? Let’s wait and see. Am not writing him off


lylenubbins Says:

Probably a helpful reality check for Fed.


RZ Says:

@Margot – good one to ponder. Haas took so much time off with injury so it’s a possibility, but on the other hand he never reached a final. (Then again, I think he was a better player than many who did manage to reach a final – e.g., Clement). I think Nalbandian might be a better choice. I would be more tempted to go with Ferrer due to his overall consistency, though I could see why Gonzalowski picks Soderling.

However, Haas is the best looking player never to have won a slam. :-)


RZ Says:

@J-Kath – Andy, ever the realist!
I think the fall is more important for Andy than Wimbledon in terms of overall play. Whenever he’s been struggling, he’s picked up his game during the fall stretch.


RZ Says:

@Margot – to add, I would definitely say that Haas is the player with the most unrealized potential due to all those injuries. There’s a reason that Humble Rafa named Tommy the President of the Injury Club.


Josh Says:

Looks like Roger will be in tip top shape for Wimbledon…I thought the time off was supposed to make him sharp on the court.


Willow Says:

RZ I Prefer another Tommy as in Robredo, also Fognini lol ;-) ….


SG1 Says:

Haas didn’t play like a 39 year old from what I saw. He was quite impressive!


Humble Rafa Says:

It will be funny if the Arrogant One loses early at Wimbledon and I “grow to like grass” and go deep in the tournament. Want to do it for Uncle Toni. He has always like cows.


gonzalowski Says:

… in fact now they are playing this ladies’ grass tournament in Mallorca,tournament whose director is Toni.
and so Nadal is training there, these days


J-Kath Says:

RZ

Got it at last!! The “fall” equals Autumn – she who was married to an American should not have had such brain-slippish. It would of course be great if Andy can hold on to No.1 a bit longer – but what the heck – it is time he just relaxes and enjoys each season. Glad to see he is improving but golly, jeepers where is his first serve?

PS: On the Thiem Team – yes, he is a worker and will do well, but reminds me of the wee Spanish David – unless he finds a bit more magic…..not convinced he is likely to seriously constantly challenge the older “big” boys (and I include all of them).


Danica Says:

Davydenko has to be on the list of best players not to win a slam. He won the next best thing though – the WTF.
Also, Rios. Crazy dude with great potential and work ethic that left much to be desired.


chrisford1 Says:

“I remember a press declaration from Fed saying more or less that his problem wasn’t the clay, his problem was Rafa.”
Pretty true.
He was the 3rd best clay player of his time. 1st best was Rafa, then a big gap, then Djokovic. Then a smaller gap, then Fed. And when Djokovic arrived, it really helped Federer’s chances on clay. Because Novak could knock Rafa off on certain days, and even at times when Rafa prevailed against him – Rafa left the match exhausted or injured.
Federinas liked that, and for a while thought of Djoko as Guardian of Feds Holy Records -


Wog Boy Says:

Nalbandian all the way,
Pity he wasn’t taking tennis more seriously, because while he was doing so he was skimming so called “the goat” in his prime. 2002/2003 they played five times and Nalbandian was 5:0 in their H2H in the first five matches, of course Fed fanatics are going to move goal posts and say that it wasn’t his prime, even Nalbandian was younger of two;)


kjb Says:

@wogboy

Feds prime was before he had won any slams? I do agree Nalbandian was awesome though. One of the best backhands in the biz.


chrisford1 Says:

I believe it would be near unanimous that the best player never to have won the big End of Year Championships – is Nadal.


Wog Boy Says:

kjb,

Roger was established top10 player in 2002, finishing #6, they played twice and Roger lost twice. Roger was number one player in 2003, they play four times, he lost first three matches, as I said, Roger prime is very flexible if you ask Fed fanatics, even if they say 2003-2007 it is with “conditions applies” clause.


Wog Boy Says:

^^

Has Nalbandian won any slams when he beat Roger, not once, not twice, but five times in a row, was he ranked above Roger?


Wog Boy Says:

^^
Last thing, I am busy, he was younger than Roger, so you can’t say he beat young and inexperienced Roger.


kjb Says:

Everyone was beating Roger back then. Hewitt, Agassi, Nalbandian, Ferrero, Grosjean… the list goes on, he quickly turned it around by 2005.


skeezer Says:

Novak was an established player in Roddicks era,
But he couldn’t finish matches then, for various reasons. And he was called out for it. Fed, win or lose, was a finisher.


RZ Says:

@Willow – all the better. We won’t have to fight over them. LOL


RZ Says:

@chirsford1 – no arguing with that. This could be the year though.


Daniel Says:

Federer was never #1 in 2003. He first ascend to #1 in 2004 after AO. Roddick finished 2003 #1 in a race with Ferrero.


Raj Says:

Joker was known for quitting.. physically tired to finish off matches.. all of a sudden from 2011, he became very fit … very mysterious…. dont tell me its from gluton free diet..


RZ Says:

I hereby bestow upon Daniel the title of Tennis-X Rankings Specialist.

😊 👏 🎾


RZ Says:

@J-Kath – Thiem hits a bigger ball than Ferrer. I think once the Big 4 are done (or maybe just Rafa), Thiem will win the French Open at a minimum. But you are right about him being a workhorse.


Wog Boy Says:

You see, I told you so, Roger prime is very flexible thing, depending on circumstances, now his prime is 2004-2007, even he finished 160 points short of #1 in 2003 making 9 finals and winning 7 including Wimbledon and masters final..you can bear Fed fanatics when it comes to moving goal posts..


Wog Boy Says:

^^^
..you can’t beat..


Wog Boy Says:

Let me try to translate that in Nole’s case what Fed fanatics are trying to tell, Noles prime was 2011/12 and 2014/15.
We don’t count 2013 as Nole’s prime since he finished #2.
Does it make sense to you, it does to fanatics?;)


Amit Says:

Wogboy:
While i have an issue with you saying that Federer was in his prime post age 30, but I however agree that roger was in his “prime” in 2002. Its just that players like Hewitt and goddamn genius like Nalbandian had upper hand vs Fed back then, and it has more to do with their form than Federer’s, I really like Hewitt and Nalbandian. Fed,back then in 2001 was entering his prime and was in his prime in 2002, was young was fast was playing great,but still lost to Nalbandian and Hewitt. Although credit to Fed,he turned it around and made Nalbandian and Hewitt lose their grounds.
Nalbandian was one heckuva talented player,though not as talented as Safin, and this Safin is IMHO the talent equivalent of Djokovic,Safin too never took tennis seriously or else he might have done what Djokovic did, that is dominate!! Fed and Safin are similarly talented,Djokovic though has similar talent,I like him bit less only coz his style is slightly less free-flowing..

I like players who have smooth playing style actually,means those whose shots look effortless.. That’s the only reason I like Fed.. When he hits shots,he looks effortless, that’s his genius… Safin too hit shots effortlessly; Murray at his free-flowing best,too appears not to exert himself much,and hits effortlessly… Nalbandian hit shorts effortlessly.. Hence I like these players more.. Also players like kyrgios I like,he hits shots well when firing!! If djokovic had just a little more aesthetic appeal, I would have liked him much more… U don’t hate djokovic,though I may sound so.. But his playing style is the reason he just stops short of being among my sentimental faces, or else Djokovic is boundlessly talented…


Truth Says:

Anyone here thinks Nalbandian was far better than a washed up overrated player?
He did the dirty work or Roddick.
Roddick only got #1 because Agassi went away and Hewitt was powerless.
Roddick had clay courters and a weak Agassi in his draws. Roddick was terribly frightened at the prospect of facing Fed, but he destroyed his arm with stupid tennis and choked badly to schuettler at the year end championship.
Roddick avoided tough draws, surrendered on every surface and never stopped choking.
Fed was the real #1 but he only lost to 1 nemesis, Nalbandian, in 2 Slams, so he barely came up short in ranking points.

Nalbandian only showed up for 1 year end final and another year in masters events, 2007.
That’s why he was in the weak era. He still couldn’t improve.
He couldn’t break Roddick’s serve for 8 years and that ’03 us open was a disaster.
Roddick knew his time was up after that Us Open. He was desperately greedy for money so he acted like he was a great ambassador for u.s. tennis. Espn talking heads laughed for 12 years.
If David hadn’t smashed up his wrist, he would’ve been number 1, despite Roddick’s Mickey Mouse ranking points in the laughable grass and summer hard court seasons.
The grass was worthless to Roddick, since he didn’t do anything to improve.
It was just mindless ball bashing, poor serve toss and ball direction.
The creep blamed his fraud serve exhibition losses on Fed.
That was a coward’s easy explanation and pathetic surrender.
People were brainwashed to believe Roddick had great genetics but he was a bratty, jealous fat slob.


Wog Boy Says:

Amit,
Good to know that we agree in something.

Raj,
Absolutely agree with you, the only explanation for Nole’s success story is that he was ing, full stop…


Wog Boy Says:

^^^
…he was doping..


squirrel Says:

Oh Ferrero…now I’m drooling. He’ll get my vote as the greatest to have never won a slam! ;)


squirrel Says:

Above message for Willow and RZ most probably ;)


squirrel Says:

Wow, this one poster is really something, attacking Federer and Fed fans, calling Djokoivc doping..wish all these negativities could go away along wtih that person…one can only hope!


Willow Says:

Squirrel i thought JCF did win a GS,or am i mistaken ?, but hell yeah very nice ;-) ….


Willow Says:

8.40 pm A back handed compliment ….


gonzalowski Says:

Ferrero, by beating Rafter and Hewitt, was the hero to get the 1st Davis cup for Spain, in 2.000.
Then, in 2004, 2nd Davis cup won, Ferrero was reserve (although he had been 1st on ATP ranking on 2003), playing Nadal instead to beat Roddick.


squirrel Says:

Oh yeah Willow, he did! My bad. Haha


squirrel Says:

Thanks gonzalowski for nice facts about Ferrero :)


James Says:

Federer’s peak was 2006 – you can employ any yardstick, that was the year he played his best tennis. That was the only year he was genuinely competitive against Nadal on clay, Rome final was nearly 50:50, then French final 4th set tie breaker. But Nadal was already in his head. After that Nadal camped in there till 2017, perhaps the tent is gone, but Federer will still have doubts in his mind if he plays Nadal at Wimbledon. He needs to win a couple more matches against Nadal to get him out of his head.

This weak era strong era talk is largely bullshit. If 2004-06 was a weak era, then the last few years were even weaker, when geriatrics have won slams.

Truth is – if there is a player who is extremely dominant and wins nearly everything, then by definition others will win hardly anything, and the era will “look weak”. But that would be a fallacy, an error in inference, nothing else. You can’t say that an era is competitive only when there is no truly great player playing (then many players share the honors and it “looks” competitive). Be logical.

Fact is, Federer is the best player ever. Nadal is second, but better than Sampras. In terms of will to fight and game strategy, Nadal is supreme. Skills and finesse, Federer is supreme. Everyone else is not even in the conversation when you compare them to these two.


Willow Says:

The best player to have never won a GS, for me would be Ferrer, one of the nicest, most consistent top 10 players ever, he could always beat the rest of the field, but seemed to come up short against the elite ….


squirrel Says:

@Willow

Then, that means it was never a probability for Ferrer to win because he’ll always have one of the Big Four against whom he’ll never have a chance.

That’s why I’d also voted for Nalbandian as the greatest to have never won a GS because he really did have a great shot of winning, but just falling short.

Having said that, like you, I really liek Ferrer, very nice, very respectful, and so many other great qualities.


squirrel Says:

@James

Very excellently well said!

#weakeraargumentisover


gonzalowski Says:

I think about the ones (unbelieveble players) we are discussing, Nalby have more tournament victories, 21


Willow Says:

Thanks Squirrel, i did love it when i watched Hewitt and Nalbandian when Hewitt won SW19, seeing them standing together chatting away before the trophy presentation, like they were really respectful of each other, same when Stosur beat Serena at the USO in 2011, the only time i did get irritated was when Andy and Novak kept on meeting in final after final, and Andy seemed way too friendly with Novak always practicing with his closest rival, when he should have distanced himself and tried to figure a way to beat him, thankfully Murray beat Novak the last time they faced off at the YEC, maybe Lendel has instilled some hatred in Murray now lol ….


squirrel Says:

Very good ppoint Willow. I remember reading somewhere that at some point, Andy decided to distance himself from Novak and then he went on to beat him at Wimby and US Open. It’s crazy how mental tennis is! And it just goes on to show that Andy is a really nice lad!

Yeah, Stosur and Serena were very friendly after the final match but I felt it was also because Serena was very embarrased after attacking the poor line judge! She was sort of making it up in my mind. What do you think?


Humble Rafa Says:

When you win 10 of something, one or two seems nine or eight less.

#deep thoughts


Willow Says:

Squirrel, Serena has always talked in friendly terms about Sam, the other was Bartolli when she was on tour, shes also good friends with Wozniacki, and Caroline visited her with flowers, cards, and chocolates when she was in hospital from what i gather, about the incident i think Serena shouted come on during a point against Sam, and she was warned about hinderence i believe, and said your a hater and unatractive inside, although someone can correct me if im wrong ?, i believe she said ill ram this ball down your throat to a line judge when playing Kuzzey i think it was, although again people can correct me if im wrong lol ….


Willow Says:

^But none of it was very cool though ^ ….


squirrel Says:

Oh yeah you’re right, that was against the great Kim Clistjers! Wow, you’re strong in tennis knowledge, you’ve corrected me twice already today! I need to go back to tennis history class, haha.

Yeah, indeed, Serena is friend with many players, bff with Caroline Wozniacki, all around, she’s just a sweet person. The only player who’s not friend with anyone on WTA tour is Sharapova. But I still like her as a player :)


Willow Says:

Squirrel lol, no you corrected me actually Kim Clijsters , not Kuzzey sorry, my hubby would say its not very often your right, but your wrong again Alison ha ha ….


Willow Says:

Regarding Sharapova (and i will probably get attacked for saying this Squirrel), what i dont care for is her gamesmanship, keeping her opponents waiting when they want to serve, taking forever when shes serving, her grunts that seem to get louder and louder during points, however i do admire her for her mental toughness and her fighting qualities, and how she says shes not in this to make friends, and i didnt care for the smack talk from the other players, and i do appreciate how good she is for the WTA, and what she brings to the game ….


squirrel Says:

hahaha your husband’s funny :)

Oh no don’t worry, you won’t get any attack, seeing from the amount of support that Sharapova got on this site for her ban and wild card drama :)

But I do agree, she does do these small annoying stuffs to off-balance her opponents. Definitely not very nice.


chrisford1 Says:

James’ 4:59AM post aptly illustrates why the “tard” is sometimes associated with Federer fans.

No such thing as a weak era to James, as he seems inclined to view any time when one player dominates as all attributable to the Greatness of the One – not the level of competition. Which James seems to treat as constant. As suits followers of “The Arrogant One” (homage to our dear Humble Rafa character) – he states it would be a logical fallacy not to conclude that without any strong or weak eras by his belief that it is only one dominating equally good fields of competitors in the Open Era – or no Great One dominating.
And then grandly summing it up as “In terms of will to fight and game strategy, Nadal is supreme. Skills and finesse, Federer is supreme. Everyone else is not even in the conversation when you compare them to these two.”

Alas, for James, plenty are indeed “in the conversation”. Laver. Borg who skipped the Australian when it wasn’t a major that padded up the stats of locals and players after 1980 or so who did play down under. Lendl and Connors were animals. McEnroe a genius.
Andre Agassi was a monster talent. Then of course it is unavoidable to skip over Djokovic, who leads Federer and Nadal in H2H, resented by the followers of the Team Nike Duopoly for forcing himself into the conversation.
Andy suffered from timing coming into form after the other Big 3 did. If he had switched ages with Fed, and had 2004-07 to himself except times on clay with young Rafa??? Maybe he wouldn’t have had 12 Slams chugged out from the 4 weak era years (as I see it), that Fed was free to romp in – but Andy 4-5 years older than Fed, Nole, or Rafa would have 7-8 perhaps even 10 and be called “The Scottish Genius or The 2nd Laver” or something like that by 2007.
If all of the Big 4 had been the same age – Rafa would have had the most Slams, IMO, for the 1st 10 years of the Four’s time. Fed, without all his padded stats, would have fought Novak for #2 Ranking and the 2nd best Slam record. Andy would have had times when he took Fed and Novak on hardcourt and grass. Rafa would have had a few. But only Djokovic might have threatened Rafa’s clay titles…

We are pretty close to algorithms that show how the 4 would have fared had they come up together and fought the Nabandians, Safins, Hewitts and Roddicks. And aged Andre and Ferrero. And Rafa is on top of that hypothetical grouping.
So I don’t argue with anyone that says Rafa is the best of this age, not Federer.


gonzalowski Says:

well said, chrisford!


squirrel Says:

All hypotheses which I respect.

Other people have other opinions. I believe that, had the big Four been born at the same time, Roger would still lead the Slam count (given his all-surface abilities) but by maybe two slams max, and that Djokovic would still be no 3 behind Rafa seeing that Rafa came to his full potential very early. Andy, well, would have had maybe one or two slams max to be brutally honest.

But that’s just my opinion, as all we can do is hypothesize :)


skeezer Says:

“James’ 4:59AM post aptly illustrates why the “tard” is sometimes associated with Federer fans”

“chrisford1 post aptly illustrates why the “church” is sometimes associated with Novak/Failed weak era fans”


Rick Says:

And Federina wouldn’t had won those Wimbledon. If the field are with players like Boris Becker, Richard Krajicek, Stefan Edberg, Guy Forget, David Wheaton and the real grass king Pete Sampras. The courts are so slow these days. Or Federina wouldn’t had won his titles. He doesn’t know how to play the real grass court tennis.


James Says:

Laver – ya, never had to play on hard courts. Imagine Federer or Sampras’s slam count if 3 slams were on grass!

Borg – 4 USO finals, never won one. Not really a dominant force on hard courts. Nadal has a better record on hard courts than Borg – and also on clay!

Lendl – never could win the slam on grass.

Sampras – never even made a final at the French – just one semi.

Nothing wrong with closing your eyes (and brain) and romanticising about the “good old days” and the “good old players” like Connors, and Lendl, etc. etc.

Fact is Federer and Nadal are above any and all of them. Where Djokovic scores over Nadal is in winning the YEC and longer stint at No. 1. But overall, he still has work to do.

And its ignorant to ignore the fact that Djokovic has a 6 year age advantage over Federer – Nadal has 5. When Sampras faced a young Hewitt or Safin, they beat him to pulp at his favorite slam. Age gap matters. Especially in best of 5.

Chrisford, you can call names as much as you like, you would merely be describing yourself. So go ahead, describe yourself some more. Or you can stick to discussing tennis.


Rick Says:

Haas had just beeb beaten. Federina needs to pick up his game. He couldn’t finish his match with someone who is rank 302 in the world.


skeezer Says:

All this Fed talk is laughable coming from rickerina. So much attention on losing one match in a 250. He’s had arguably the best start ever in 2017, winning masters events and a Slam, yet the few Fed haters want to maximize one loss. You want to talk about losses this year? Lets’ talk Novak / Murray. O and by the way:
http://www.latimes.com/sports/sportsnow/la-sp-miami-open-federer-nadal-20170402-story.html. @ 36? Now that is laughable.


Giles Says:

Does anybody know the seeding for Wimby?


SG1 Says:

Best players without a major that I’ve seen:

1) Cedric Pioline
2) Todd Martin
3) Marcelo Rios
4) The Big Cat – Miloslav Mecir


SG1 Says:

Haas is the best No. 302 ranked player in the history of the ATP tour.


SG1 Says:

Fed lost a match earlier in the year the same way and won a major and two Masters 1000′s. I read absolutely nothing into this Haas match. When Wimbledon comes around, he’ll be ready.


monterey Says:

James,

Very well said. The weak era argument is a fallacy on every level, put forth by those who seek to denigrate Fed’s achievements by any desperate means possible. A sad bunch, for sure. I guess then Nadal played in a weak era since his career largely overlapped Fed’s. We should then dismiss his RG titles as having been won in a “weak era” too. Rather sad that some choose to undermine a great champion such as Fed.

I don’t subscribe to the idea of a GOAT, but Fed, Nadal, Djokovic are definitely some of the greatest players to ever play the game.

And, yes, Nalbandian did beat Fed the first 5 times. But take a look at Roger’s subsequent record of almost complete domination. Beginning in 2003, Fed is 11-3 against him. And he also had a very strong record against Safin, 9-2 I believe.


Navdeep Says:

Just relax and enjoy this era guys! We are those few lucky ones who are witnessing possibly the greatest era of men’s tennis. How many era have seen 3 double digit and career grand slam holders! and then their is Murray and wawrinka as well. So it’s better to cherish this time till it lasts!


monterey Says:

Now we know why Roger lost to Haas. He said that he could hear Haas’ little daughter calling out to her father during the match and it made him (Roger) think of one of his own daughters cheering for him in the same way.

And Mischa Zverev said something similar today. He said he was sorry for beating Haas because he could also hear his daughter yelling, “Come on, Daddy”.

Ha, Tommy was using some shrewd psychological trickery on his opponents. At his age, everything’s fair I guess. Cute.


Daniel Says:

Giles,

I posted on another thread.

If Djoko doesn’t play Queens/Halle Rafa stays on top of him.

If Federer wins Halle he gets second seed, Nadal #3 and Djoko #4.
If Fed doesn’t win Halle title: Nadal #2 seed, Djoko third and Fed #4.


Daniel Says:

Cheering for Pouliie in stutgart, had him in top 10 for the Tennis-x contest in beggining of the year😜


kjb Says:

@Rick

“real grass king Pete Sampras”…..you mean the guy Fed beat at Wimbledon when he was 19 and Sampras was 29?


chrisford1 Says:

Skeezer – All Uncle Toni is signalling when he says Fed is the Greatest, Rafa may only be the 3rd or 4th best clay player, that Djokovic is the obvious favorite at the FO in 2011,2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, and 2016 ———-
Is simply Uncle Toni out there pushing Rafa’s buttons.
Anyone who cannot see Uncle Toni’s motivation games is a little dull on the edge.

=====================
I don’t believe in GOAT. Only in GOTE (Greatest of the Era) or BATT (Best at the Time) I do believe the level of competition varies like in any sport, not just on talent but number of competitors at the top level varying with transition to new techniques, training, equipment..medicine keeping some players who were goners in the past up at the top level longer. BATTs can be a half decade long – and they can make the debate on who was tops easy. Fed’s Playground was from 2003 until Rafa developed as an all-court player in 2008. Novak 2011 until 2016.
Sometimes the “Holy Slams” of Fedfan focus come in clusters. Fed got 12 before the other three guys of the Big Four reached full form, and 6 in the 10 years after that. Djokovic 11 from 2011 onwards.
===================================


Giles Says:

Daniel. Thanks.


Rick Says:

If Federina and Sampras are the same age. Federina wouldn’t had won. And Federina was only able to beat an old man in 5 sets. If Michael Stich and Goran are the same age as Federina. He wouldn’t had won his old titles, too. Federina doesn’t know how to play real grass tennis. He doesn’t has serve like Pete’s. Courts are slow these days, players are not serving and volleying. So that Federina is being able to rallying his ways for his titles.


Rick Says:

Didn’t expect Federina to be on another vacation again so soon.


Truth Says:

Funny how when fed fans have no argument, they trash and say goodbye to the reminder of weak era Roddick.

You can see well if you know about domination.
Djoker’s desire fuelled his domination.
He didn’t take 6 month-12 month vacations to avoid getting dominated.
Once he gave up recently, he stopped trying hard. Simple as that.
When he’s on top, he has 5 times the ranking points of Nadal or Fed.
Fed never had that many points in the race because he didn’t dominate in 2008-2017.
Fed was creamed in a French hopes final and reduced to hysterical crying by Nadal, a man who took 9-10 months vacations to avoid Djoker beatdowns.
It wasn’t that great and entertaining in 2003-2006 either.
Weak deceitful overweight Roddick and the humiliated powerless Hewitt weren’t “intelligent crafty geniuses”. They just got lucky and went away for a decade.
Roddick was a protected bully that grubbed for money. That’s why he abused Djoker and played victim. It was pitiful. Then again, the ATP didn’t ban Roddick. There were money hungry and loved that Fed sacrifice lapdog Roddick.

Safin was strong only when he cared. He was pretty stiff and injury prone too.
Weak era muppets usually were stiff.
Not flexible and clever like Djoker.

Anytime Djoker gave up while diving into his brother’s brainwashing sycophant cult, Fed fans cheered for his misfortune. Weak era doesn’t have a guy that racked up 90% of masters events, Year End Championship, and 4 slams in 2 years.
Clearly, Djoker sacrificing his reputation for his brother is the only way the strong era is stopped by Fed. No one but Djoker in the way. Nadal, of course, rides the wave, but doesn’t benefit on grass and hardcourt. Neither does Fed.

Fed benefited from facing cowards like Roddick.
It was based on physical domination against weak minded frauds that shouldn’t have played tennis.
Nalbandian gave up and crawled under a rock. He said he hoped Fed dominated tennis more and more. Sad indeed.


Truth Says:

* They were money hungry


skeezer Says:

“signalling”. LOL Dude, he said it(GOAT)…… he did not give a……. signal. Whats next Mr. Weak Era, sunshine flavored popsicles? You have lost repeatedly the weak era argument, so now you are trying to pick and choose time periods to justify ……what?
You don’t believe in GOAT cause you don’t want to accept the facts, fine.( imo you just can’t handle Fed being the best overall tennis player of all time, period). But don’t throw out the baby with the bath water in trying to debunk the GOAT title.


kjb Says:

I think the fact that there is more action on a thread about Fed losing in a 250 than there was during the whole French open says a lot about the state of all the Djokovic nuthuggers. Green with jealousy, or maybe green because of vegan diet? 18 and counting!


Truth Says:

You had to wait for bloodshed or implosion from Djoker.
Wasn’t that what Roddick wanted?
Weak era was there for Fed to enjoy.

You know pretty Murray isn’t dominating tennis.
Without stupid human misfortune & tragedy that fed floons can pounce on, fed floons wouldn’t be blasting off about how GOATY Fed is.
Hope Fed doesn’t get another surgery for a park injury.
WE don’t desire anymore Davis Cup cancellation…


Humble Rafa Says:

Skeeze,

Continue to promote links where my lovely uncle plays mind games. He know how to win.


James Says:

Djokovic only really started winning once Federer reached 30. Before that, Federer whipped him time and again, on all surfaces (remember FO 2011?), so did Nadal.

Nadal’s game has some unique elements – his forehand, court coverage, will/stamina – Djokovic has more of a robotic game – no weaknesses, pretty good all around, strong will (once he stopped retiring from matches) – but nothing really attractive to watch.

A federer Nadal match on any surface other than clay is probably the most exciting tennis match to watch. Even on clay, Rome 2006 stands out as an amazing match where contrasting styles clash. Djokovic’s matches are mostly like women’s tennis – keep hitting till someone makes a mistake.


James Says:

Also, people can shout as much as they want, BUT:

18 > 15 > everyone else.

If you want to include the two next most important stats (weeks at No. 1 and YEC titles), go ahead.

Seeing the Federer and Nadal of today (a shadow of their peak games though), Murray is already contemplating retirement.


Truth Says:

Robotic? You mean like Roddickbot?!
All-surface geniuses are not “unimpressive” and dull.
Insecure Fed liked insulting far superior players like Djoker. He had no trouble talking about how amazing and great Roddick was. It was quite disturbing…

It’s not Djoker that benefited from Hewitt and Roddick’s robotic crap tennis.

Fed had to do what he had to do. He used his physical superiority to finish Roddick and Hewitt off.
The Fed fawning and intimidation from the media helped Fed immensely every year too.
Safin was predictable. Once his focus broke down, he collapsed.
Laughingstocks were the norm.

Fed comforted Hewitt & Roddick by letting them squeeze in unimportant wins in their last matches. Of course, he praised Roddick like he was incredibly talented and “got Fed beaten in the last match”. LMAO

Lol at the belief that a lucky Slam beneficiary, that beat mental midgets & mugs at Aussie open & us open, was far superior to 95% of the top 100.
Roddick had no clue how to return or serve on clay, outdoor & indoor hardcourts either.
No one thinks Roddick was better than Ferrer and Nalbandian.
Roddick was washed up in 2004.
Ferrer used to hate tennis and Nalbandian stopped fighting to be a Slam contender in 2005.
Wawrinka was superior to Roddick before he won Slams.
Roddick was totally destroyed on grass by Djoker, and Djoker was just playing B level tennis. Old age wasn’t the reason for losing.
Fed needed luck to get past Murray and Tsonga on his best surfaces, hardcourt and grass. Fed wasn’t old in 2008-2011.
Fed isn’t old but why don’t we watch him talk about his old age excuses? So fun.
Gloat like he was some kind of warrior against genius heroes that aren’t Djoker.
After all, he called Nadal a one dimensional player. Djoker didn’t call Nadal one dimensional.


chrisford1 Says:

Skeezer on his hallucinogenic master of debate victory celebration with his cats:
“You lost, you lost, I am but a vessel for persuading all of my idol Federer’s greatness” Skeezer cackles as he doles out teaspoons of puss N’ Boots from a 6 oz can to his grumpy and hungry 4 cats.
“You see Portifos, Orange Tom, Tacowinna, and Miss Mirka…once again I outwitted those who say the competitive level in tennis varies and Fed got padded stats” -as the 4 salivated listlessly ” by saying “Oh yeah? and You’re wrong so there!!” Few are as bright in argumentation, debate, and mastery of selected opinions presented as facts — as your owner Skeezy!”


James Says:

Great display of tennis knowledge by Chrisford1 above!


Wog Boy Says:

^^
Not as good as your post after AO final, commenting Roger’s win, without even watching it, remember? How great was Roger win on “slow high bouncing AO courts”, your words. I called you on that one but you never responded, typical troll.

Fed fanatic can run but can’t hide;)


Margot Says:

Is it me or are a lot of posts on here plain gibberish?
Ok. Ok. Putting my hands up, it’s me.


James Says:

Wog boy, nice display of tennis knowledge on your part too. After all, if you cannot discuss tennis, or keep up with tennis stats or arguments, why not discuss other people, ha?

I state some tennis facts, and then some tennis opinions. Don’t really care if you agree with them or not. Some people here seem to get their panties in a bunch on players who none of us really know.

As for Federer or Nadal or anyone else, I don’t really care one way or the other about them. Nadal has been in Federer’s head – and in some critical moments, Federer has wilted under pressure. He has also been too stubborn to adapt to Nadal. Not really a “Fed fan” type of comment, is it? I call it like it is. can you?


Wog Boy Says:

Sure James, but tell me, was AO court this year fast, slow..or whatever, after all you discussed it like someone who watched it, but it turned out you didn’t have a clue what you were talking about, you were trying to discuss tennis, no…but it’s ok, you are forgiven;)


Wog Boy Says:

Forgot..keep trolling James, and try to watch some tennis before you comment it, no?
Googling stats is not good enough, you just make full of yourself, like after AO final.


James Says:

It was slower than the USO, for sure. the balls are being hit faster over the years, so it gives the false perception of the court being fast or faster. But the speed of the court depends on how much the bounce takes OUT of the speed of the ball coming in. Hotter weather makes a difference too. If you have any stats or any other evidence to the contrary, let me know, I am waiting…. The AO has ALWAYS been the slower of the two hard court slams, for as long as I can remember, and with a higher bounce. Do you not know this? You seem to claim to watch tennis…..

And you seem to have quite a clue about what other people are watching or not watching in their living rooms! Get a life, stop focusing on what other people are doing or not doing.

And for the record, I did watch the match – last hour or so (which turned out to be the most exciting see-saw part). Am even watching the clay tournament going on in Stuttgart right now!


James Says:

Try to focus on tennis, Wogboy, rather than people who you don’t know anything about. That’s called paranoia.

And unless you are a state level tennis pro (Doesn’t seem like that from your comments), I could probably whip you on a tennis court (hard court).


Wog Boy Says:

Sorry James, but you were commenting AO final, remember? You didn’t have a clue what you were talking about, remember?


Wog Boy Says:

Anyway James, that’s ok, you don’t have to justify yourself, it’s only internet, you can BS as much as you wish, that’s all within rules of internet games…and trolling is allowed, as you know.


Willow Says:

Margot no its not just you lol ….


Wog Boy Says:

James, I missed this in your post without realizing that we are watching the same tournament, the only difference is that it is on grass not clay, at least according to my TV set, you might have different TV set that shows same match on clay or you are just as I thought BS artist;)

“Am even watching the clay tournament going on in Stuttgart right now!”

Keep watching Stuttgart on clay and tell me how it finished since I have to go to bed, too boring, yes Zverev vs Lopez, but on grass on my TV, …never mind…haha


Truth Says:

Speaking of gibberish, the Democrat supporter is still talking about how Trump behaved worse than Obama and other evil Dems. Obama and Federer are the greatest and classiest people ever!
Poor Murray fan should stick to gloating about pretty Murray and talking to less intelligent, rabid nasty Fed fans. LOL!
I’m sure you have something in common with them.
Murray sure whines a lot too. Birds of a feather stick together.
NEWSFLASH: An ignored, phony condescending fan supports the dramatically wounded Murray!
No “ignorant, arrogant, disagreeable” fan group drama to worry about, you know! *Heart aches


James Says:

Wogboy, I thought even you would get the pun! the grass at Stuttgart looks all burnt, brown patches, they sprinkle fine dust on it to make the few little grass blades stand up. Nothing like the lush green grass the first few days of wimbledon.


J-Kath Says:

I thought this was a tennis thread, not a boxing match – must have hit the wrong key.

PS: Looks like Queens Draw is out….seen Andy’s.


Margot Says:

No, it’s not me.


J-Kath Says:

Margot:

What did U think of Andy’s draw? He meets 2 Brits…weird.

PS: Read about a Jonny McCoy today – another Brit – supposedly on the cusp of making a leap ….but long way to leap.


Margot Says:

Not too keen on his draw Kath. TBH. Has got Bedene, that’s OK I think but Querry, who is terrific on grass, and Cilic possibly and, if he gets through them, could be meeting with Stan in the final…..EEEEEK!
Am going for a couple of days. The forecast is for very hot weather which is good. Went last year and it was rained off, miserable.


J-Kath Says:

Margot:

Wonderful – do hope you enjoy it all. I’m usually pessimistic re. Andy – especially recently – but believe he has enuf to beat Querry. If both Andy and Stan reach a face-to-face I give it to Andy (who is usually better on a possible 5 sets i.e.GS’s) but I think he is has enuf to take Stan ———–but then – will they manage to meet???


J-Kath Says:

Wog Boy:

So Scotland got their reward vis-a-vis Aussies!!!!!!!!! ?????


Wog Boy Says:

Yeah JK, haven’t seen the game, but read the papers this morning, they are praising brave and hard working Scotts for showing Aussies how you should play for your country, particularly after successive one points defeats, everyone agrees that it was a memorable victory, withstanding a barrage of late attacking raids by Aussies.


gonzalowski Says:

have a good time at Queens Margot!


Willow Says:

Have a lovely time Margot ….


Margot Says:

Thank you very much gonzalowski, Kath, Willow and AM.They’ve made it bigger this year so I’m not quite sure what to expect.
AM: It’s gonna be HOT, HOT, HOT and the stands are really exposed so I shall be wearing a big hat, sunglasses and a long sleeved shirt! Lol, my nearest and dearest won’t even recognise me!


AndyMira Says:

M!…then,i will be searching a chick who wears a “big hat,sunglasses and a long sleeved shirt!Lol!”…Hope i will find it!!Hehehe…


Okiegal Says:

@Margot……All you have to do at Queens is just hold up one simple sign that says “EEK”….lol! Have fun!! 🎾🎾🎾🎾


AndyMira Says:

@Okie!…Hehehe…I like!I like!


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