Australian Open To Use 25-Second Serve Shot Clock, Seeds Going To 16 At Slams In 2019
by Staff | November 21st, 2017, 10:07 am
  • 173 Comments

The ITF announced several major changes in rules for the upcoming Grand Slam season and for 2019.

The Grand Slam Board approved the Australian Open’s request to use a 25-second serve shot clock for the 2018 event, similar to what the US Open trialed during qualifying in August. The current rule is 20 seconds to serve at Slams.

Also, seedings at Grand Slams will revert back to 16 starting in 2019. There have been 32 seeds at Grand Slam events since 2001 Wimbledon. This should create more compelling early round matches.

With a rash of first round retirements, Grand Slams will now give the injured who pull out on site before their opening match 50% of the first round prize money with the other 50% going to the “lucky loser”.

And players who do perform but are unable to finish their first round match will be scrutinized and potentially fined up to the amount of their first round prize money.

Warm-up will also follow a strict time schedule. One minute for walk-on. Five minutes for warm-up and another one minute to ready for the start of the match.

On-court coaching is still not permitted.

These changes apply to the 4 Grand Slam events only and not to ATP or WTA tournaments.


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173 Comments for Australian Open To Use 25-Second Serve Shot Clock, Seeds Going To 16 At Slams In 2019

Daniel Says:

Great initiative.


the_mind_reels Says:

As far as the serve clock is concerned, now players don’t have to worry about umpires not being objective about this regarding both themselves and their opponents. Makes sense.


RZ Says:

I like the shot clock idea.
I also like the plan to avoid the rash of injury retirements.


Tennis Vagabond Says:

Doesn’t actually give any details here that the serve clock changes anything other than going from 20 to 25 seconds. Will it be enforced? Remain arbitrary?


SG1 Says:

Interesting. Never really seen the time between points as an issue. I wonder if there are going to be situations where the fans want to applaud for 10-15 seconds and then both players have to rush because the fans haven’t quieted down yet. Let’s hope there’s still some discretion.

Not a big fan of the change to 16 seeds from 32 seeds either. Over the past decade, the cream has consistently risen to the top of the heap at the end of majors making for some exemplary tennis for the semis and finals. Why would anyone want to mess with the formula right now? Having the Big 4 at the end is ideally what you want. And if someone’s going to bust that up, they really have to earn it.

As for the prize money issue for retirements and pull outs, I’m cool with it.


Humble Rafa Says:

I don’t like the shot clock, obviously.

I am glad they didn’t put a limit on the number of ball bounces before serve.


skeezer Says:

Am on the bar with what you said SG1. Although I am for the shot/time clock, we’ll see. Am sure there will be some hiccups but hopefully the flow of the match will be better. There really is no need to bounce the ball 24 times or watch someone go through agonizing slow rituals before play starts. That stuff is in Golf, let it stay there.


Tennis Vagabond Says:

Not sure, SG1, what I’ve noticed the last few years is that the first week of a slam is boring. I wouldn’t mind going old school to see how it goes. The top players are the top players for a reason. I don’t think we’ll suddenly see a lot of top tenners missing from the 2nd week, I think we’ll just see some better first week matches.


Daniel Says:

The luck of the draw will play major effect and the draw conspiracy theorists will have more to complain.

With 32 seeds you almost elimiate the chance of a top player getting a bad first round match. With 16 seed you can have a top #4 playing a top 30 in first round if he is not pre-schedule a qualy.

It may provide better first round matches, but if a single top player gets 2 “bad” matches in a row in Slams, the conspiracy ones will be spewing: rigged draws ad nauseum.


Dennis Says:

Going to 16 seeds is a bad idea. It is ludicrous that the world #1 should potentially face #17 in the opening match of a 7 round tournament.

Serve clock is good as it eliminates subjective decisions of umpires not to enforce time rules consistently, or to wait until key points to call violations on players who have taken liberties and been allowed to get away with it for an entire match.


skeezer Says:

I think this is a great advantage to those who are losing to WC’s and 100+ ranked players early in the tournament. Now it will be easier for them.


skeezer Says:

Let’s see. for AO we have;

Fast surface (assuming it stays that way)
25 Shot Clock
Less Seeds

That about hits all the checklist requirements for Rafole final.


Dennis Says:

Skeezer: are you being ironic or joking? Maybe it doesn’t come across online, but honestly you cannot truly think a faster surface (though it didn’t hurt Rafa too much last year) and faster pace of play benefit Rafa and Nole!


Humble Rafa Says:

Skeezer: are you being ironic or joking?

Skeeze is in depression. “Happenings” last week have made him sad. So be a gentleman/woman and give him some and his cats some space to vent.


skeezer Says:

How can a fan of a 19 Slam holder be depressed?
HR strikes out again.
#badcomedy


Markus Says:

Get rid of the medical time-out. It’s being abused. It delays the game. If you get injured and cannot play, you retire. I’m tired of athletes stopping to get a massage.


Humble Rafa Says:

These smart people who come up with these useless rules don’t know the meaning of f oreplay. Good preparation is important for every point. Sometimes things take a while to build up.


Humble Rafa Says:

How can a fan of a 19 Slam holder be depressed?

Look at yourself in the mirror. Or ask your cats how you have behaved in the last few days.

#introspection


Tony N Says:

Does Tennis Need a Shot Clock?
At 2014 Wimbledon: “According to my stopwatch, Kukushkin and especially Nadal were in no hurry, while Federer and Giraldo raced through their encounter. Kukushkin averaged 18.7 seconds before serves, and went over the 20-second limit about one-third of the time. Nadal averaged 22.5 seconds before serves, and went over the limit more than two-thirds of the time.
Meanwhile, Federer averaged 15.3 seconds before serves, and went over 20 seconds on just 4 percent of his service points. Giraldo averaged 16.6 seconds, and went over the limit 18 percent of the time.2
The pace of these Saturday matches was particularly relevant because two days earlier, Nadal’s defeated opponent in the second round, Lukas Rosol, complained that Nadal wasn’t penalized for slow play. In his post-match press conference Rosol said, “The referee was not going with the rules.” He added, “Always best players, they’re taking much more than the normal players, you know, and nobody is telling them nothing.” ‘
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/does-tennis-need-a-shot-clock/


skeezer Says:

“Look at yourself in the mirror.”
Ahh now this is something you should do.
Hint; when you do, you won’t see Rafael Nadal. Wisful thinkung. You’ll see bad comedy.
#realityhurts?


Giles Says:

This bloke is obsessed with Nadal! And who can blame him. Lol


gonzalowski Says:

maybe Nadal could get a exculpatory from a therapist, justifying taking 5 seconds more on the serve for their obsessive behaviors


gonzalowski Says:

Rafa, on the issue: “the matches that have been remembered, those with long exchanges and disputed points, where tactics, suffering and the spirit of overcoming came into play; when the points are 20 or 30 hits there is no room to recover. ”

“Those who rule in sport are the ones who decide, if they believe that the fast game and the points with two strokes is what excites the public and attracts the spectator, then continue with these rules”

It has sense, although he is an interested part, not objective, of course.


Giles Says:

Am reading that the shot clock will only be used for the qualifying rounds of the AO, not the main draw. Can someone clarify please?


lylenubbins Says:

Good call on the first round defaults. Big problem at Wimbledon last year


the_mind_reels Says:

@Giles: they trialed it at the USO qualies this past summer, but from what I’ve read, it will be used in the main draw at the AO in 2 months (and likely qualies there too).


Tennis Stud Says:

I think by making it official, the field will be leveled for everyone. Everybody has to stick to the clock and the matches will be shorter and the fitness factor comes into play for sure.


Giles Says:

TMR. Thanks.


SG1 Says:

I consider it suspect for tennis bureaucrats make rules for tennis players. The game is incredibly popular. Why mess with success? Nadal’s ticks and picks and Nole’s ball bouncing are part of who they are. I’d be willing to bet there are folks out there who actually get a kick out of it. These guys are tennis characters. There’s a need over-legislate, homogenize and PC the hell out of everything today. Pretty sad in my opinion.

I see player grunting during play (which I pretty much have no tolerance for) as a much bigger and more annoying problem.


Humble Rafa Says:

I can’t sleep because of this clock thing. How can I play 4 hour three set matches anymore? Our future children may not able to able to see these types of matches in their lifetime. I feel for them.

#Andy’s children


Humble Rafa Says:

Look at yourself in the mirror

I see the most humble, sincere, simple human being happy to be on this planet.

Who do you see? 10 cats beside you?


gonzalowski Says:

HR lol!


Tennis Stud Says:

Hey tennis lovers out there ! We have added tons of trivia/quizzes. Check out : https://www.facebook.com/TennisStud/ and all you have to do is send a message and the bot will respond in less than a second !


AndyMira Says:

LOL HR!Hehehe…Just Andy’s children?No Novak’s?Or Rafa’s?


Tony N Says:

Humble Rafa says: “(Look at yourself in the mirror) I see the most humble, sincere, simple human being happy to be on this planet.”

No, no. Stop looking in your curved mirror… it distorts your image and sincerity.
Skeezer wanted you to look in a flat mirror… this will give you a true reflection of your actual image and sincerity:)

Humble Rafa Says: “How can I play 4 hour three set matches anymore?”

You can learn from this Swiss guy (whom you secretly admire) how to play 5+ hour matches even on clay. This clip is only Part 1… you will learn ‘how to’ by the time you get to Part 5 :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1p212XHbHM


Okiegal Says:

A shot clock???? Eeeek!!! 😱😱😱😱


Okiegal Says:

I was watching a very old match on the sports classic channel the other day. Well, I didn’t watch long ….serve volley point ….serve volley point…….boring! Sorry……but I love the grind!


Tony N Says:

Pancho Segura passed away at 96. He was a tennis great from the 1940s and 1950s, who played with a two-handed forehand as well as backhand. Segura also coached grand slam champions Jimmy Connors and Stan Smith.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/19/obituaries/pancho-segura-dies.html?_r=0

In 1978, tennis great Ellsworth Vines “considered Segura to be the fifth best of these ten great players, behind, in order, Budge, Kramer, Gonzales, and Rod Laver. Segura, however, ranked above Bobby Riggs, Ken Rosewall, Lew Hoad, Frank Sedgman, and Tony Trabert… (Segura’s) two-handed forehand is most outstanding stroke in game’s history; unbeatable unless opponent could avoid it.” Vines should know what he was talking about (the great Jack Kramer considered Ellsworth Vines and Don Budge to be the greatest players of all time… until he saw Federer, whom he said in 2007 was the best he had ever seen play the game).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pancho_Segura


Humble Rafa Says:

I am thankful this day for

1) Uncle Toni, the world’s best uncle and coach
2) Xisca, for her love and how much she cares about me
3) My family, without them I won’t be here
4) 23-15
5) year end number 1 ranking this year
6) 23-15
7) knee machine that keeps me going
8) Being goat owner and being able to care for other goats is an honor in itself.
9) The soul who decided clay was the best surface for tennis
and
10) 23-15


Sivaji Says:

@Humble Rafa

Very funny 23-15


Giles Says:

https://twitter.com/tennislifenews/status/933655474792206337
Confirmed. Shot clock only applies to the qualifying rounds.


gonzalowski Says:

better for Rafa, I suppose;
Although, the rule will remain 20 seconds maximum without a clock, instead of 25 with it, but if a umpire gets strict …


Tennis Magic Says:

The most interesting change is the proposed seeding change from 32 to 16. The dirt-ballers had forced Wimbledon to shift to the 32 seeds format and the retrievers and grinders will not like reverting to the 16 seed format. Nadal and Djokovic are in for a shock in 2019 ….


Giles Says:

^^^ “dirt-ballers” ? Do you mean clay court players??


skeezer Says:

“Shot clock only applies to the qualifying rounds.”
Too bad. What a waste of watching time to watch the ball bounce 24 times and watch players make unnecessary adjustments and wipes and what not. Play Tennis!


skeezer Says:

RIP PS. Two handed FH we will probably never see again. One of the Great Ten.


Giles Says:

^^^ Suck it up, it is what it is.


skeezer Says:

Giles,
If they are trying it out, they know their is a problem. Enjoy Rafa’s tics while you still can.


Tony N Says:

Since you’re obsessed with the GOAT, your wish will be granted…
https://tinyurl.com/y8mqktbj

Actually no soul “decided clay was the best surface for tennis.” A hundred years ago they realized that fully clay courts were the worst surface in tennis (the fully clay courts got water logged by rain and needed a few days to dry before they could be rolled again). So court makers switched to using crushed red brick and particles to make the top surface of so-called clay courts. So you’re really the goat of ‘crushed red brick courts’. Changing the colour to ‘crushed BLUE brick courts’ will cause you to lose to Verdasco… the Swiss guy that you admire so much is the goat of crushed blue brick courts.

It’s not a “knee machine that keeps me going”, it is your doctor’s stem cell injections, growth factor (PRP) injections and growth hormone supplements that are re-growing the worn-out parts of your knee… which allows you to continue playing with your medically unsound game until your knees wear out again and you need more injections and supplements.

For your “year end number 1 ranking this year” you should thank your buddy Federer. Had Roger bothered to play Beijing and Paris, it probably would have been 0-7 instead of 0-5 losses since 2015 Basel as well as nooooooo No. 1 ranking. Federer thanks you for playing the Laver Cup and keeps his promises.

It’s funny that you’re so obsessed with “23-15”. When I searched the Internet, I discovered that “23-15” mostly means: “You hypocrites! You cross land and sea to recruit a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much of a son of hell as you are.” Are you trying to reveal something to us?


Giles Says:

Bravo Goffin for knocking out your hero Faderer! Well done boy. Lololol


Okiegal Says:

My Thanksgiving thing I’m most thankful for…..I’m so thankful I am still getting to watch the King of Clay, grand slam champion and GOAT owner play tennis!

VAMOS!

PS…..Thanks Humble for the reminder….23/15 awesome stat….💕 it!!

VAMOS!!!


Giles Says:

Hahaha but he didn’t play Beijing and Paris! Rafa played a full season, didn’t skip the hard indoor courts which are his worst surface. A fully deserving #1 unlike Fed who missed the entire CC season cos he was too scared to face Rafa.
A fully deserving #2 I would say, no?
# youknow


Raj Says:

It further proves that last year AO was customized to suite Roger.. looks like he has big influence to make changes so Nadal can’t reach his number.


skeezer Says:

“Bravo Goffin for knocking out your hero Faderer! Well done boy. Lololol”
HE also knoocked out Nadull (first). Well done man Lololol
#nothishero.


skeezer Says:

Am thanfkful this year that Fed OWNED Nadal. Too bad Nadal could’t finish the season. Limped to the finish line. Was scared to face Fed…again.
#fishiesmyloves


skeezer Says:

Raj,
And what ,,,,the other times Fed beat Rafa this year was “customized “ too?
Rafa can’t reach his number cause he gets beat by WC’s and 100 ranked players regularly.
#crock
#nowayfedsfault


Tony N Says:

Attn ‘Fed-haters’: Kindly address him as Dr. GOAT, Dr. Federer, Dr. Fed, Dr. Roger, Doctor or Doc from now on.
The University of Basel’s “Faculty of Medicine awarded its honorary doctorate to Roger Federer for increasing the international reputation of Basel and Switzerland, as well as for his function as a role model athlete, who encourages many people around the world to be physically more active and thus contributes to the promotion of health. Also mentioned was Federer’s engagement for children in Africa through his foundation.” The Basel University’s Medicine Faculty (established over 550 years ago) recognized the fair and clean exemplary sports performances of Dr. Federer, who chooses not to benefit from an unnatural advantage from stem cell and growth factor injections.
https://www.unibas.ch/en/News-Events/News/Uni-Info/Dies-Academicus-2017-Roger-Federer-New-Honorary-Doctor.html

Don’t worry, Giles. Dr. Federer might grant your wish to appear on clay next year.
https://www.express.co.uk/sport/tennis/883921/Roger-Federer-Play-Clay-Court-Season-Claudio-Mezzadri-Tennis-News


gonzalowski Says:

Tony, that thing “of who chooses not to benefit from an unnatural advantage from stem cell and growth factor injections” is not from Basel Univ, but yours, don’t lie, man.


Giles Says:

Geez. Busted! Always feeding us with bs. Youknowwho.


Giles Says:

Rafael Nadal was given an honorary doctoral degree by the European University of Madrid in May 2015.


Tony N Says:

Giles: The prestigious University of Basel is 557 years old (founded in 1460) and is ranked among the top 100 universities in the world. Getting an honorary doctorate from such a prestigious university’s 557 year old medicine faculty is, well… prestigious.
https://www.timeshighereducation.com/world-university-rankings/university-basel

The ‘European University of Madrid’ was started in 1995 (Rafa is older); it is a private ‘for profit’ institution that was owned by Sylvan Learning (now called Laureate); this private university is for rich students who are unable to get into a good public university but have the money to pay for a private education. This university is unranked (only the top 1,000 universities in the world are ranked). Spain has 50 universities ranked higher than this private university, according to another ranking system.
https://www.timeshighereducation.com/world-university-rankings/european-university-madrid

Swiss newspapers reported that the University of Basel’s public eulogy on Federer praised him for his fair and exemplary performances in all life situations. So this part is from the University of Basel.

gonzalowski: don’t panic and jump to conclusions. I never claimed “(comma), who chooses not to benefit from an unnatural advantage from stem cell and growth factor injections” was from Basel U. It’s obvious Dr. Fed chooses to compete and win without having to resort to the unnatural advantage of stem cell and growth factor injections. If he used these treatments he would probably be able to play the entire season.


gonzalowski Says:

don’t know about Fed, maybe it’s true what you say. Rafa yes, used that growth factor injections on the knee (curiously took it my hometown, Vitoria-Gasteiz, with doctor Sánchez).
If it’s all like you say, congratulations to Roger, maybe he has more merit than others ; but Basel U. never dispised another tenists.


Giles Says:

“If he used these treatments he would probably be able to play the entire season”.
Lol. Fed doesn’t need these treatments simply because his issues aren’t serious enough. An occasional back spasm does not require treatment as such, but simply appropriate exercise.
Bottom line – fed is old. Next year will be even more difficult for him.
Youknow.


Wendy Says:

ya..so called semi final streak, qtr-final records can’t be broken with 16 seeds draw….facing qualifiers in R1, R2 is something he needs to compromise.


Humble Rafa Says:

Am thanfkful this year that Fed OWNED Nadal.

Understand that cats got all over your keyboard while you were typing this (misspellings, random CAPS, etc). I know you are more educated than this.

Whenever I can correct someone’s English, it makes the entire nation of Spain proud.


t4t Says:

I guess the University of Basle is pleased that Fed used its medical research and technology to have a “miraculous” resurgence at age 36! Fed skipped parts of the whole season simply to deflect suspicion. He could probably have achieved the calendar slam this year. Nadal should be thankful Fed was wise enough to hide Fed’s ” unnatural” powers for part of the season.


Okiegal Says:

I’m also thankful for my good eyesight! I’m able to watch Rafa play tennis mo betta! 👁👁


skeezer Says:

There are those here who have an obsession for Fed. Ot’s ok, the guy is the GOAT. Enjoy it.


Truth Says:

Lol No wonder tennis isn’t popular in the US.
Fed was healthy yet beaten by little guys from age 21 to 31. Still he brags about dominating tennis when Nadal & Djoker are injured. Even fed fanboys thought he was destroying Goffin! How you Fed be badly injured when he benefits from Djoker injury? Fed fakes injury to appear courageous. His fake sportsmanship awards, smug evil behavior and pity for far inferior players don’t make the best of anything.
Nadal is old and that nullifies any Fed deficiency. Fed complains about his own lack of youth. Lmao


Giles Says:

He is not the GOAT but the BOHE.


Tony N Says:

Giles, t4t: Say Dr. Fed or Doctor Fed… now repeat 10 times until it sinks in.

Gonzalowski: Rafa has had more than the growth factor injections (Platelet-Rich-Plasma injections). His coach Toni Nadal has admitted to Rafa also having several months of Mesenchymal Stem Cell injections.
http://www.marca.com/en/2014/11/09/en/more_sports/1415555747.html

To keep regenerating his body (in order to keep playing in a similar way as he did in the past), Nadal is probably using a combination of both stem cell injections (for mesenchymal stem cells) together with PRP injections (for growth factors) together with supplements to increase growth hormone. I myself have had PRP injections.
https://nsistemcell.com/prp-vs-stem-cell-therapy-in-medicine/

In the first link, Coach Toni also continued to make injury excuses for 27-year young Nadal’s loss to Wawrinka at the 2014 Australian Open final. (The appendicitis was the other dubious episode: In Shanghai China, Nadal claimed he had appendicitis, which — if not treated promptly – the pus-filled appendix can rupture/burst, spread infection throughout the abdomen and become life threatening. Instead Nadal chose to remain for several more days in ‘third-world’ China to do sponsor activities and to play a match — which is very risky for someone with real appendicitis and he would risk having surgery in China – before he returned to Spain. Then one week later Rafa goes to Basel to collect his appearance fees and play three matches, which again is very risky for someone with real appendicitis. Then one week later he claims to have had an operation to remove his appendix. If Nadal really had appendicitis in China, the prudent decision would have been to shut down immediately and return to his doctors in Spain).

You can bet that Basel U’s medicine faculty did their due diligence on Federer before awarding him their honorary doctorate (e.g., contacting clinics that provide such treatments). In an open country as Switzerland, it would soon be leaked to the paparazzi and news media if Federer took stem cell, PRP or other dubious treatments.

Giles: Whereas Team Nadal whines like crybabies for an entire season whenever Nadal gets a slight back spasm or knee twitch — and Nadal takes stem cell treatments — Federer sucks up the pain and plays until the bitter end even when he is losing and has no hope of winning. Federer is stubborn about being old school. He is the only player in tennis history to play almost 1,400 matches without retiring from a match even once (I think John McEnroe held the previous record, finally retiring after 800+ matches; Jimmy Connors retired during 14 matches; Ivan Lendl and Agassi each had 11 retirements). In October 2005, Federer tore his right ankle ligaments during practice… his foot was in a cast and he walked with crutches while his ankle head… he withdrew from Madrid Indoors, Basel Indoors and Paris Indoors… with very little practice, Federer showed up in Shanghai, China for the ATP Finals with his right ankle/foot in a brace, won four matches, before he hobbled to play a five-setter final against former World No. 3 Nalbandian 7-6(4), 7-6(11), 2-6, 1-6, 6-7(3). The 386-point match lasted 4 hr 33 min. Federer is such a unique warrior — you simply are unable to understand what he is capable of doing. You know.(Read “When Federer was the Savior of Shanghai” in World Tennis Magazine).

t4t: I guess the University of Basel would be more pleased if only you knew it is not referred to as “University of Basle”. If you didn’t know this, you certainly would not know what medical research and technology it has, duh.

I don’t think that Federer, with his many business activities and family, is motivated to play an entire full season anymore. ATP Tennis is no longer the central focus of his life, even though he loves the game and loves to compete. The truth is that since 2010 Federer has been a part-time player, sometimes showing up underprepared for some tournaments (where he relies on his fighting and competitive qualities to win some matches). Since 2016, he has skipped significant periods of the season and I expect he will do this in 2018 and 2019 as well.


Giles Says:

Awwww. “Federer sucks up the pain……. “.Such a brave warrior. NOT.


gonzalowski Says:

Tony N,
on AO loss against Wawrinka Rafa clearly suffered a back injury, if you remember, you can’t deny it.

“an open country as Switzerland”???? Banking secrecy’s country!!

and, I admire Federer, of course, but your “mister clean” last AO final took an fake MTO, critized by Pat Cash, for example


Wog Boy Says:

Gonza,
So “open” that they openly wanted to keep the money (deposits) of Jewish victims from the WW2 and if it wasn’t for the court case they would never give the money back to rightful owners (survivors), it was well known that they were on pretty good terms with Hitler:

“…the most controversial contention[5] of the Eizenstat report was that Switzerland assisted the Nazis beyond what was necessary for a neutral country, and prolonged the war.”

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Jewish_Congress_lawsuit_against_Swiss_banks

Very, very open country, openly stores the money of all world crooks, dictators and the rest.


Giles Says:

Does fed pay any taxes?


j-kath Says:

t4t: I have lived and worked in Geneva and Basel was always spelt Basle….however, may have become more anglicised. Although it is not one of the top Swiss universities, it does have some important Nobel prize winners on its records.

Giles: There are a number of top tennis players who object to paying taxes for money earned in the UK e.g. Queens has been mentioned specifically….whether there is a legal exception for Wimbledon (being a Grand Slam) – I’m not sure. But tennis players wouldn’t be the only ones to seek Tax-Free Havens…there are some recent revelations about the Royals as well as relations of UK Prime Ministers…..all you need is a good Tax lawyer…..wouldn’t it be nice if that was our personal problems????


j-kath Says:

PS: I agree with Wogboy’s appraisal of the Swiss…. “pas un sou, pas un Suisse” and the folklore story of how God made the world, and when he came to Switzerland?…..that’s why he had to rest on the 7th day…and don’t visit unless you have a rich man’s medical insurance cover…oh yes.


t4t Says:

I agree with Wog boy and jk. Switzerland has a shameful association with war criminals, money launderers….I guess Switzerland should be pronounced shadyland.


t4t Says:

Tony dear what’s in a spelling? I guess Basle is the British spelling though I am not British. But clearly the University was thrilled that its medical research helped Fed to beat Father Time. I guess the ethics involved is not an issue for them. All is fair in love and tennis, at least if you are Fed.


Tony N Says:

Tony N: “t4t: I guess the UNIVERSITY OF BASEL would be more pleased if only you knew IT IS NOT REFERRED TO AS “UNIVERSITY OF BASLE”. If you didn’t know this, you certainly would not know what medical research and technology it has, duh.”

Now we are clear that I had clearly referred to “University of Basel” NOT the Swiss-German “city of “Basel”. So let’s clear up the misconceptions posted.

The Tribune de Geneve spells Basel as… BASEL (not Basle). The Tribune de Geneve is the biggest-selling French-language daily in Switzerland. Work permit holders who actually lived in the Swiss-French city of Geneva should know these facts. However, they may not know much about the Swiss-German city of Basel, which is 250 km north of the Swiss-French city of Geneva.

The University of Basel (or Universität Basel) is the official name on the university’s website and on its signage. An internal search of the university’s website yields 13,000 results with “Basel” (only 4 results have “Basle”… probably written by work permit holders living in Geneva).
https://www.unibas.ch/en.html

The prestigious University of Basel is Switzerland’s oldest university, founded 557 years ago! The world’s top three university rating systems (THE, ARWU, QS) usually rank the University of Basel among the top universities in Switzerland as well as among the top hundred in the world. Its alumni and faculty have included Carl Jung, Friedrich Nietzsche, Paracelsus, Jacob Bernoulli, Christoph Gerber, Werner Arber, Albert Gobat, Tadeus Reichstein, Kurt Wüthrich, Rolf Zinkernagel, Paul Hermann Müller, Roger Federer, among others.
https://www.timeshighereducation.com/student/where-to-study/study-in-switzerland


skeezer Says:

Tony N,
Clearly t4t does not know what a “University” is.
But you already knew that.
—-
“Am thanfkful this year that Fed OWNED Nadal.”
Am thankful this year that Fed OWNED Nadal.
Thanks HR for helping me correct that.
You’re interest in the English language though……baffles me.


t4t Says:

skeezer we are thankful that over Fed’s career he was owned by Nadal 23-15.
Also it is clear that skeezer does not know what a university is. tut tut. But we already knew that. Do you know what the students pursuing PhDs at Universities do? They do research. Many universities have faculty pursuing lifelong research. Obviously the univ must be doing reasearch in medicine and dear Fed probably sponsored it for the magic potion.


skeezer Says:

“Do you know what the students pursuing PhDs at Universities do. They do research.”
Now I know you have not attended one. LOL.


Tony N Says:

gonzalowski: “your “mister clean” last AO final took an fake MTO, critized by Pat Cash, for example”
I had already rebutted your fake argument in this September 5 comment. It does not support your case to keep repeating Pat Cash’s nonsense. Do you have a more credible expert who said the same nonsense?
http://www.tennis-x.com/xblog/2017-09-04/26906.php#comment-730344

gonzalowski: “on AO loss against Wawrinka Rafa clearly suffered a back injury, if you remember, you can’t deny it.”
No need to remember. Let’s watch it carefully from the beginning — this link is the entire 2014 AO final match.
It’s clear that (a) there was nothing wrong with Nadal’s back at the very beginning from the warm-up; (b) from the very start of the match, Wawrinka was out-muscling and out-playing Nadal; (c) Wawrinka’s domination had unnerved Nadal, who was broken by the fourth game of the first set due to nervous or poor play.
Now fast forward to 38:40. Nadal had three break points at 0-40, 3-5 to get back into the first set. But Nadal mentally broke down as Wawrinka’s blistering play won 5 points in a row! Watch Nadal’s back and movement throughout – there was no sign of back injury, just panic, discombobulation and passive play (just like he plays whenever he gets beaten by a low ranked player).
In fact, Wawrinka won 12 points in a row as he went on to break Nadal at the start of the second set (at 0-40 you can see coach Toni Nadal shouting coaching tips to Nadal, while Nadal was shaking his hand signaling that either that nothing was working or he was not feeling the ball); and then Wawrinka reached 40-0 on his own serve. Realizing that Wawrinka was going to win that night, at 40-30 started telegraphing back pain to the crowd. Was Nadal hoping to disrupt Wawrinka’s rhythm when he took a medical time out at this crucial juncture 3-6, 1-2?
If Nadal’s back was injured before the third game of the second set, show us where it seemed to be injured instead of Wawrinka’s incredible dominance.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bywJf5xN38


Tony N Says:

Giles: Suck in this video of Federer in Malawi. Such pre-school education can help you, t4t, Humble Rafa and your buddies. As skeezer noted: “Clearly t4t does not know what a “University” is.” You guys have got to start somewhere…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfYin92D9G8

Wog Boy, gonzalowski, j-kath, t4t: Your Switzerland bashing violates Tennis-X’s Commenting Guidelines to stay on topic and abstain from making non-tennis comments on topics like politics.

In the Economic Freedom Index, Switzerland (No. 4) is certainly a more open and freer country than Spain (No. 69) or Serbia (No. 99). In the Press Freedom Index, Switzerland (No. 7) is certainly a more open and freer country than Spain (No. 29) or Serbia (No. 66): it would soon be leaked to the paparazzi and news media if Federer took stem cell, PRP or other dubious treatments, duh.
http://www.heritage.org/index/ (btw, Hong Kong is not a country, so Switzerland is really No. 3 in the world)


gonzalowski Says:

Tony N,
just saw the wam-up at the AO link you posted, I recognize I see Rafa nervous, but can’t see any injury moment. Maybe I’ll follow later.
The opinion on Switzerland came in response to you saying that Switzerland is an open country, as an argument that one would know if Federer has advanced treatments there.
but they are pirates, man


gonzalowski Says:

the rulers, I mean


chrisford1 Says:

Please, don’t throw slime at the Swiss. Plenty of other nations took advantage of the opportunity Germany offered many nations in Europe to stay out of the clash. Spain, Portugal, Sweden. Denmark lost 16 soldiers and 10 civilians in their mighty 6 hour war with their fellow Aryan neighbors. Norway had a divided population, part welcoming the Germans, while the other half were sympathetic to the Allies, particularly Britain. Finland was using the swastika back in 1918 to ID it’s military gear and troops. The Baltics and Ukraine welcomed the Germans in, initially, based on the Ukraine Holodomor, other famines and liquidations of Christian intelligentsia they blamed the Russian and especially the Jewish communists for. Turkey and the independent Gulf states were neutral. America and most of Latin America started neutral. In Asia, the Soviet Union, Thailand, Tibet were neutral. Poor Belgium begged to remain neutral, again, to no avail. Same with the Netherlands.
The neutrals that made money hand over fist were 1st the Swedes, actually. Next the United States, as a neutral before Pearl Harbor. Then the Swiss. Then the Thais.
If you must bash, don’t single out the Swiss.

Humble Rafa was great in this thread. Lots of laughs. Thanks, HR.

I would rather can all the PEDS accusations than give them the time of day. Present proof. Unlike the French idiot that Nadal just successfully sued for libel/ That means you, t4t, the most. I do not believe that Federer would risk his great legacy with late career PEDS use. Nor Nadal, Novak, Stan, Serena, Murray, Roddick, etc.


gonzalowski Says:

chrisford agree with you, but Tony N. put Switz. as an example of transparency… well, in the end almost no state is like that


Tony N Says:

gonzalowski Says: “The opinion on Switzerland came in response to you saying that Switzerland is an open country, as an argument that one would know if Federer has advanced treatments there. but they are pirates, man… the rulers, I mean… but Tony N. put Switz. as an example of transparency… well, in the end almost no state is like that”

Let’s be honest and admit that you and your buddies clearly understood that I had meant “open country” in the context of news freedom and openness: “In an open country as Switzerland, it would soon be leaked to the paparazzi and news media if Federer took stem cell, PRP or other dubious treatments.” As I substantiated, “In the Press Freedom Index, Switzerland (No. 7) is certainly a more open and freer country than Spain (No. 29) or Serbia (No. 66): it would soon be leaked to the paparazzi and news media if Federer took stem cell, PRP or other dubious treatments, duh.” The Press Freedom Index is assessed by Reporters Without Borders (For Freedom Of Information). In the map, the lightest yellow coloured countries have the most press freedom – click on Switzerland, Spain and Serbia.
https://rsf.org/en/ranking


gonzalowski Says:

didn’t know about this ranking, interesting,
On Transparency International’s 2016 Corruption Perception Index is in a great position, too.


Willow Says:

Sean needs the off topic thread again !


gonzalowski Says:

yes sorry Willow


Tony N Says:

gonzalowski: “Tony N. put Switz. as an example of transparency”
Yes it is true that Transparency International ranked Switzerland (No. 5), Spain (No. 41) and Serbia (No. 72). While no country is perfect, some are better than others.

gonzalowski: “they are pirates, man”
Since Switzerland is a landlocked country, piracy could not have made it so competitive :) The Global Competitiveness Report ranks Switzerland No. 1 in nine of the last ten years! Find out what measures make up the Global Competitiveness Index in the World Economic Forum’s “The Global Competitiveness Report 2017–2018”
http://www3.weforum.org/docs/GCR2017-2018/05FullReport/TheGlobalCompetitivenessReport2017%E2%80%932018.pdf

WogBoy reveals that his one-sided opinions about Switzerland completely (a) depends on his ONE Wikipedia link and (b) ignores what was done by other countries, groups and people. So here are just a few other snippets of that very complex deplorable situation.

Read the book “The Holocaust Industry: Reflections on the Exploitation of Jewish Suffering” (updated Second Edition) available on Amazon.com 4.5 stars review. In Chapter 3 ‘The Double Shakedown’, the author Finkelstein (whose parents were both actual Holocaust survivors of concentration camps) asserted that some of the claims were made on Switzerland were fraudulent; that some Holocaust victim’s assets and bank accounts in the US and Israel were ignored; and some rightful Jewish survivors lost out because payments were made to the wrong groups and people. Raul Hilberg (the world’s pre-eminent scholar and historian on the Holocaust) praised Finkelstein’s book: “I refer now to the part of the book that deals with the claims against the Swiss banks, and the other claims pertaining to forced labor. I would now say in retrospect that he was actually conservative, moderate and that his conclusions are trustworthy. He is a well-trained political scientist, has the ability to do the research, did it carefully, and has come up with the right results. I am by no means the only one who, in the coming months or years, will totally agree with Finkelstein’s breakthrough.”

With respect to WogBoy’s belief that only Switzerland assisted the Nazis, here’s the other side of the spectrum. Read the two books ”51 Documents: Zionism in the Age of the Dictators” and also “51 Documents: Zionist Collaboration with the Nazis” both available on Amazon.com which are both based on historical documents (so check the source documents if you don’t like what the author has written)
https://www.counterpunch.org/2014/02/24/zionism-in-the-age-of-the-dictators/

These are just a few of the many facets pertaining to this complex situation, so let’s not jump to conclusions without understanding the big picture… in order to throw stones just at Switzerland simply because you are envious of one of its tax-paying, tennis-playing citizens.

Let’s get back to tennis.


Wog Boy Says:

Who cares what the other countries did, we are talking about one country and the other countries behavior doesn’t justify that country behavior. Two (three or more) wrongs don’t make one right.

Undisputed facts:

-They kept quiet for 40 years after the WW2 without any intention to give money (with interest) back to their rightful owners.

-They would quietly keep the money (and interest) if it wasn’t for the lawsuit against Swiss banks initiated by WJC in 1995.

-Even with a “fraudulent” claims Swiss banks agreed and paid $1.28 billion.

No need to try to water down this particular case by calling on another cases, everybody takes responsibility for their own acts, and this was a dog act, to make a profit on other people suffering and then to try to sweep it under the carpet, like nothing happened.

One thing (out of many) that I admire with Jewish people is that they don’t forget and don’t forgive until all outstanding bills are paid in full, and we go back to Old Testament where that behavior is approved and desired.

I’ll repeat what I often say to my Jewish friends in Sydney, large and very influential group mainly originated from Russia:
“I know that you are best salesmen, but you really cheated us when you sold us New Testament and kept Old Testament for you.”

Discussion closed.


Okiegal Says:

I’m thankful for smart doctors and stem cell replacement…….THE BEES KNEES!! 🐝🐝🐝. LOL


Wog Boy Says:

Oki,
The knees would be even better if he used medical services of renowned Basle University Faculty of Medicine, just look what happened with 36 years old knee after he missed six months due to “knee injury”, nothing short of miracle..at that age;)


Wog Boy Says:

Last time I checked, Donald Trump had 5 (five) honorary doctorates at one stage, now “only” four, since Aberdeen university revoked its.
Does anybody knows who holds the record for honorary doctorates? 36 years old is after that record too, stay tuned.


j-kath Says:

Wogboy: Enjoyed the early chuckle at 4.52pm.


j-kath Says:

PS: I thought it was Federer’s back rather than his knees…thought Andy had the hips/knees; Nole the shoulder/arm -
and Stan? Kei? Milos – I’ve forgotten.


j-kath Says:

Willow: Sean needs more control of the main thread rather than the off-tennis thread… it’s not “off-subject” wherein lies the problem…


Okiegal Says:

@JK and WB……I chuckled too!
JK…….too many injuries to keep up with!! Lol


t4t Says:

Wogboy @ 4:52pm Nov 27th
Lol! And so true!

skeezer @ 10:02 pm Nov 26th
Poor skeezer, did you drop out in high school?
Ha ha ha !
#Toofunny


skeezer Says:

I’d be careful going after a country without looking at your own countrys problems. Bad subject to lean on.


t4t Says:

skeezer
It isn’t a bad subject for Wog Boy to lean on. Your school probably taught history in the higher grades which you obviously missed. Not too late for you to work on that long delayed graduation, my friend.


Tony N Says:

Wog Boy: This video shows how Dr. Federer withdraws his money from his Swiss Bank.
https://vimeo.com/240972970

What a genuine smile! He’s also a good Swiss citizen who pays taxes to his country and lives in his own country (not a tax exile living in Monte Carlo to avoid paying his due).

Wog Boy Says: “The knees would be even better if he used medical services of renowned Basle University Faculty of Medicine, just look what happened with 36 years old knee after he missed six months due to “knee injury”, nothing short of miracle..at that age;)”

The correct spelling is “University of Basel” — NOT Basle. The city of Basel is in the German-speaking part of Switzerland so German spelling is used: Basel (pronounced BAA-zuhl). You’re obviously someone who is clueless about the University of Basel and its medicine faculty.

Put your money where your big mouth is: Can you tell us the name of the knee regeneration specialist in the University of Basel’s Faculty of Medicine whom you fantasize can provide this medical service to Federer? Does the University of Basel even have a knee regeneration specialist? You don’t know the answers if it’s not in Wikipedia.

Of course 36-year old Federer’s performance seems like a miracle to a worshipper of a player who relies on regeneration and performance enhancing injections and oxygen pods. (In the Press Freedom Index, Serbia is only No. 66. No wonder the Serbian press refuses to reveal what Djokovic took when he was struggling in 2010 to transform from consistently losing almost 20 matches every year to winning so many matches and titles.)

36-year old Federer is able to do what he did because he is unique and exceptional — the greatest sports experts know that Federer is one of the greatest athletes across all sports. The GOAT in ice hockey Wayne Gretzky considers Roger Federer to be among the top four athletes of all-time. “He deserves to be up there with guys like Michael Jordan, Muhammad Ali, Pele. He’s a special man. He’s got charisma, he’s got style, he’s got class. He’s a winner. He loves his sport. He’s got a passion for the game. He’s a little bit like how Gordie Howe was. He’s just a special man… You go back to the McEnroe days and obviously Pete Sampras and Bjorn Borg and people thought, ‘Well, are we ever going to get a guy as good as that guy?’” Gretzky said. “All of a sudden this guy [Federer] comes along and might be as good as all those guys combined.”
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-07-17/is-federer-the-greatest-athlete-of-them-all/8714850


Willow Says:

Usain Bolt, Mo Farah, Tiger Woods, Michael Phelps,Pele, Messi,Sir Steve Redgrave, to say Federer is greatest of them all is OTT, and disrespectful to the other sporting greats, it doesnt seem enough to some of his fans that hes one of the greatest, he has to be seen as thee greatest, however i suppose if tennis is your favorite sport, and Federer is your favorite player ever, chances are you would say hes the greatest ever sportsman anyway, remember some years back, some of his fans going balistic because Tiger Woods won some award that Federer didnt ….


Tony N Says:

Wog Boy Says: “Who cares what the other countries did, we are talking about one country…”

Who cares what you want to talk about when it is not relvant?

First, you disingenuously twisted out of context what I had written in order to bash Switzerland. It is obvious that I used “open country” in the context of news freedom (“In an open country as Switzerland, it would soon be leaked to the paparazzi and news media if Federer took stem cell, PRP or other dubious treatments”) because “in the Press Freedom Index, Switzerland (No. 7) is certainly a more open and freer country than Spain (No. 29) or Serbia (No. 66)”

Second, WogBoy, you are a nobody on this issue. You just parrot what you read in Wikipedia. You have no competence to proclaim “undisputed facts”. Unlike you, Prof. Raul Hilberg was the world’s leading authority on the Nazi holocaust — he refutes your misinformation.

Listen to this clip of expert Prof. Hilberg declare in 2007: “I, myself, was researching actions brought against Swiss companies, notably banks, but also other enterprises in insurance and in manufacturing. And the gist of all of these claims, all of these actions, was that somehow the Swiss banks, in particular, and other enterprises, as well, owed money to Jews or the survivors or the living descendants of people who were victims. The actions were brought by claims lawyers, by the World Jewish Congress, which joined them, and a blitz was launched in the newspapers. (American) Congressmen and senators were mobilized, officials of regulatory agencies in New York and elsewhere. Threats were issued in the nature of withdrawal of pension funds, of boycotts, of bad publicity. And I was struck by the fact, even as I, myself, was researching the same territory that Professor Finkelstein was covering, that THE SWISS DID NOT OWE THAT MONEY, THAT THE $1.25 BILLION THAT WERE AGREED AS A SETTLEMENT TO BE PAID TO THE CLAIMANTS WAS SOMETHING THAT IN VERY PLAIN LANGUAGE WAS EXTORTED FROM THE SWISS. I had, in fact, relied upon the same sources that Professor Finkelstein used, perhaps in addition some Swiss items. I was in Switzerland at the height of the crisis, and I heard from so-called forensic accountants about how totally surprised the Swiss were by this outburst. There is no other word for it. Now, Finkelstein was the first to publish what was happening in his book, ‘The Holocaust Industry’. And when I was asked to endorse the book, I did so with specific reference to these claims.” Go to 2:15 till 6:00
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmpqUcG1zKQ

This article describes how the Swiss were extorted. In addition, “Norman Finkelstein argues that the campaign to reclaim Jewish assets from Swiss banks smacks of hypocrisy and double standards… “For all the righteous indignation about the “perfidious Swiss”, however, the comparable American record is, on all these counts, just as bad, if not worse. Like Switzerland, the US denied entry to Jewish refugees fleeing Nazism before and during the second world war. Yet the US government hasn’t seen fit to compensate them. And, although dwarfed in size and resources by the US, Switzerland admitted just as many Jewish refugees as America (approximately 20,000) during the Nazi Holocaust… The most explosive finding of the Volcker committee went unreported in the American media. Alongside Switzerland, the committee observed, the US was also a primary safe haven for transferable Jewish assets in Europe. The question is, what happened to the dormant Holocaust-era accounts in American banks?… “The United States,” Rubin concluded, “took only very limited measures to identify heirless assets in the United States, and made available a mere $500,000, in contrast to the $32 million acknowledged by Swiss banks even prior to the Volcker inquiry.” In other words, the US record is much worse than the Swiss record… the Financial Times reported that “unlike countries in Europe, Israel’s banks and Zionist organisations are resisting pressure to set up independent commissions to establish how much property and how many dormant accounts were held by Holocaust survivors, and how the owners can be located”. In October 1998, an Israeli newspaper stated that the WJC and the WJRO decided “to refrain from dealing with the subject of assets in Israel of Holocaust victims on the ground that responsibility for this lay with the Israeli government”. The writ of these Jewish organisations thus runs to Switzerland but not to the Jewish state. ” “
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2000/jul/13/extract.features11


Willow Says:

J-Kath true, i just find it strange that somebody accuses others of going off topic, yet does that exact thing, hypocritical ….


Wog Boy Says:

Wikipedia Warrior lost it completely, calm down, take a deep breath, take some valium if necessary or any other medication prescribed and approved by renowned Basle University Faculty of Medicine and I promise I won’t do it again to you, I don’t want to see you again in such distress and so incoherent on the verge of nervous breakdown.
Also, make sure that your carer is always handy in a case of emergency, you are in nursing home, aren’t you? You can always request around the clock monitoring.


Tony N Says:

Willow says: “it doesnt seem enough to some of his fans that hes one of the greatest, he has to be seen as thee greatest”

So you believe you know more than the hockey GOAT Wayne Gretzky does about who are the greatest athletes of all time? Since 2009, there has been discussion about Federer being one of the greatest athletes of all time. This is nothing new. Federer has long since passed Tiger Woods, who nowadays is rarely mentioned as the GOAT of Golf (it’s been back to Jack Nicklaus for several years now). Read the 2009 article “Doug Robinson: Federer just may be the greatest ever” regarding Tiger vs Federer. Also read “Wimbledon 2017: Roger Federer shades Ali, Nicklaus, Pele as greatest” . And “Kelly: Roger Federer makes the short list of truly legendary athletes” . And also “Oliver Holt debates: Who are the greatest sportsmen of all time?”

Top 20 sports stars of all time: how does Roger Federer compare to other greats?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/tennis/rogerfederer/5758572/Top-20-sports-stars-of-all-time-how-does-Roger-Federer-compare-to-other-greats.html

Opinion: Roger Federer deserves to be rated as one of the greatest sportsmen of all time
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/tennis/opinion-roger-federer-deserves-to-be-rated-as-one-of-the-greatest-sportsmen-of-all-time/news-story/3f74778e2eece5230e44139a979417de

Seems like you’re going ballistic and getting jealous because Federer is held in such high regard as one of the greatest ever athletes/sportspersons… and your favourite player is not there?


Tony N Says:

Wog Bog: Willow finds it strange that you keep going off topic and behave hypocritically.
Valium was invented in New Jersey, USA by Leo Sternbach, duh. Every drug you take is not invented in Basel.
http://www.njinvent.org/awards/Awards89.html
You’re the Wikipedia Warrior who loses it completely and sounds incoherent as you keep getting spanked again and again. Can you not write something based on solid facts?

Doug Robinson: Federer just may be the greatest ever
https://www.deseretnews.com/article/705315532/Federer-just-may-be-the-greatest-ever.html


Wog Boy Says:

“..take some valium if necessary or any other medication prescribed and approved by renowned Basle University Faculty of Medicine…”

Wikipedia Warrior, even your reading skills are failing you, I never said valium was invented in Basel, read it again and again and keep taking deep breath and repeating “I am ok, I am ok..” it might help until help arrives, ambulance is on its way.


gonzalowski Says:

Wog boy I agree with many of your assertions, but I just read Australia has his proper tax haven, you correct me, please: Cocos Islands


gonzalowski Says:

perhaps it is that Switzerland is an icon (well deserved) of the evil part of capitalism, but in the end everything is on the same wheel


Giles Says:

He’s completely out of control!
Youknowwho.


j-kath Says:

Willow @ 2.11am

Absolutely.

and to Giles: Ditto.

Hi to Okie & WB and Others: The condition is actually serious – I’m not joking – I do think Tx should intervene.


t4t Says:

There’s no tennis so I guess the warrior of the Cult is seizing the opportunity to recruit more members by advertizing his idol. Worship here and ye shall rule all tennis forums! Tons of Fed posters have been ordered for the Winter training to practice the ritual which Jane mentioned. In the meantime the idol is no doubt receiving attention from the U of B. I think next season he will decide to win only the French Open. Double career slam and beat Nadal on his favorite surface thereby removing all doubts about who is the GOAT.


Tony N Says:

Wog Boy: “take some valium if necessary or any other medication prescribed and approved by renowned Basle University Faculty of Medicine”

Are you telling us that the University of Belgrade’s medicine faculty “approves” and “prescribes” medications for you and Djokovic? The University of Belgrade is Serbia’s top university, ranked between No. 800 to 1,000 in the world.

In the entire developed world, is there any good university’s medicine faculty that has authority to “approve” and “prescribe” a medication? If so, show the evidence (Serbian universities and university hospitals not accepted).

Any way we try to interpret your gibberish, it remains… a never-ending stream of gibberish.

It’s strange to see the same gang encourage and support each other’s gibberish or nonsense that disingenuously takes the thread off topic. When one of the gang’s nonsense is refuted as false or erroneous, by evidence or argument, the gang accuses the rebutter of going off topic or not playing by their double standards. You won’t see J Kath, for example, making an effort to apply her double standards to Giles, t4t, Wog Boy, HR, etc. Now this condition is actually serious: monumental hypocrisy.

Have a wonderful holiday season, everyone.


Willow Says:

Wrong Toni. N im not jealous, i just dont feel the need to take things to the absolute extreme, if thats alright with you ? and im more than delighted with my favorites achievements in tennis, as i dont live and breath all things tennis, Roger Federer can be the tennis GOAT for all i care, im satisfied my favorite is a great that is and always will be good enough for me, i never claimed that he “Federer” wasnt held in high regard to the rest of the sporting world either, i merely said it was OTT to say that Federer was “thee” greatest ever sportsman, hes “one” of the greatest, but they are IMO all amazing in their own particular fields thats just my opinion, and im not a hater either, i just dont do fawning worship either ….


Willow Says:

One of “the, rather than “thee” said in the last paragraph at 2.57 am , absolutely right , never said otherwise ….


Willow Says:

And BTW Toni.N i wasnt reffering to Wogboy in my post @ 2.11am, so please dont put words into my mouth as i dont appreciate it ….


Giles Says:

“Have a wonderful holiday season, everyone”.
I think that sounds like his last post for 2017.
🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼


skeezer Says:

Happy Holidays Tony N!


Tony N Says:

Willow, I was sarcastically outing your double standards. It was strange that you failed to rein in Wog Boy or Giles or t4t for going off topic. It’s monumental hypocrisy when you fail to apply your double standards to people whose views you espouse or tolerate.

If any the great athletes/sportsmen offer their expert assessment that Federer is the greatest ever sportsman/athlete then that is their expert assessment to make. You lack the sporting qualifications to criticize their expert assessment as “OTT”. (BTW, you believe Mo Farah deserves to be considered among the greatest sportsmen of all time — but he has so far failed to be awarded even one Laureus World Sportsman of the Year award, as voted by a jury of almost 50 great sportspeople; in other words, the sports greats do not consider him one of the greatest sports people of this era, certainly not all time or in history).

No one is forcing you to read anything they post — if you choose to read, then it’s your choice to read their well-reasoned arguments and facts. As well, no one is telling you how you should perceive your favourite players — so it is hubris to tell others how they should or should perceive their favourite players. However, if someone initiates a nonsensical post about a certain player but then gets rebutted for false or erroneous comments and their favourite player is questioned, too bad.

Finally, don’t read this link as it contradicts your standards: Roger Federer stands above Cristiano Ronaldo and Lionel Messi as the greatest sportsman, writes Boris Becker
https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/tennis/Wimbledon/roger-federer-stands-above-lionel-messi-and-cristiano-ronaldo-as-the-greatest-sportsman-writes-boris-a3589321.html


t4t Says:

Giles @ 11: 13 am.
Lol!
Happy Holidays everyone, not excluding the Cult which would now be preparing to assemble for the Annual worship of its Lord! skeezer and Tony N would probably be the Chief priests.I wish I could be a fly on the wall to watch the proceedings. On second thoughts, no. Ewwwwww!


Tony N Says:

Super Happy Holidays, skeezer


Giles Says:

Eeeeek I was wrong. The beat goes on and on and on! No respite.


skeezer Says:

Happy Holidays Giles……yes…….even you :)


Willow Says:

Toni.N many people go off topic me included, but you were the first to make an issue about it nobody else did ….


Markus Says:

May the holiday season bring peace and harmony to everyone in Tennis-X…until the Australian Open.


Willow Says:

Toni. N, god talk about beating an argument to the absolute ground, ok here you go then “All hail Roger Federer”, he is not the greatest ever tennis player that ever lived, he is also the greatest sportsman that ever lived, hes also the greatest human being that ever lived, so they you go, is that enough praise, worship and fawning over your favorite player ever, and your favorite sportsman ever, and your favorite human being ever ?, i mean forget everyone else they suck, they shouldnt ever be mentioned in the same breath as lord god almighty “ROGER FEDERER” lol ….


Willow Says:

Markus and to you too ;-)


Willow Says:

” HAPPY CHRISTMAS and NEW YEAR to all TENNIS-X posters XX ;-)


Okiegal Says:

Seasons Greetings to all TXers……that means Merry CHRISTmas and Happy New Year! Peace and goodwill to everyone around the globe!!
I hope that 2018 brings good health to all…posters and players! Healthy knees, elbows, backs, necks, etc…….


Okiegal Says:

Thanks posters for the good wishes! Oh and I forgot an ailment……. diarrhea of the mouth…..I hope that clears up too! Lol


Okiegal Says:

Hey Skeezer…..what about me…..I’m a loyal Rafa fan too??? Lol


j-kath Says:

And to Okie – I wish you and everyone all peace and joy including the mouth-piece. I live in hope that he will return with New Year resolutions, e.g. not to be so one-dimensional (and boring)and damaging to poor old Roger who can choose his friends but not his fans.


gonzalowski Says:

Happy Holidays to everyone on Tx 💕


skeezer Says:

OK,
Ok u too🎄😀


Wog Boy Says:

Gonza,
Trust me, even if it is tax heaven you wouldn’t like to be there, it is in the middle of Indian Ocean with hardly any population where first thing you want to do when you wake up in the morning is to kill yourself for being there. Any ordinary cunami and atoll is gone.

Why would you go there when there is much better tax heaven in the middle of the Europe with a beautiful view of Lake Zurich, you are guessing right, it is Canton Schwyz in Switzerland where 36 years old moved from his native Basle in order not to pay tax in his native Basle , same as he avoided doing compulsory military service for his country due to bad back;)

You can search more about it, just a hint:

“Located about 20 minutes drive from Zurich, and an hour from Basel, Wollerau is one of the lowest tax municipalities in Europe and the liberal tax structure has attracted other multi-millionaires.

Formula One drivers Kimi Räikkönen and Felipe Massa and the former UBS chairman Marcel Ospel have all chosen to live in the canton.”


Wog Boy Says:

Since I just entered, as of yesterday, six weeks Christmas lent where we abstain from eating any food of animal origin, but more importantly trying to clean not just our bodies but souls too in order to prepare for Christmas, since that is impossible to do on TX, I’ll leave you all in peace until January the 7th.

God bless you all….doesn’t apply to cult members since they are antichrists.


Okiegal Says:

@JK 2:25…. A good belly laugh!! 🤣🤣🤣

@Skeezer……Thanks…….I was confident not sending me a “personal” season’s greeting was an oversIght!….LOL You have a fantastic holiday season too!
🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸


chrisford1 Says:

Tony N – You can’t begin to say Fed is better than Tiger or MJ or Messi, or Serena or Steffi for that matter – because it is apples and oranges. You may not be able to say it even about Fed and other tennis players.
What IF the Big 4 had all been the same age and started their pro careers at the same time at 18? And there was no weak era? I’m a Djokovic fan 1st, but I would have to say after 10 years Rafa Nadal would have the most trophies. Because he was precocious, owned clay. After that, Fed and Djokovic may have gained ground because Rafa would have his medical absences from the Tour. But Andy would be a lot closer to the other 3 in accomplishments because he would have been less intimidated by the other 3. And Fed would have less trophies in that scenario than he does, due to competition.


chrisford1 Says:

Before we celebrate Christmas, I wish to encourage our non-Americans to consider doing the American Thanksgiving feast. If they never have.
We also had a holiday for the deer and birds.I deboned a Turkey and not bothering with giblet gravy, either we were left with a bag of guts and skin and bones and the back part of the turkey that should go in the trash, but I decided to toss it out in the back yard and see what it might attract Thanksgiving morning. No bear or mountain lion to fret about. Put it out just before the sun came up, expecting crows. 1st visitors were 3 deer, a doe and two yearlings. One yearling ate the turkey liver and gizzard (interesting!), while the other 2 deer ignored and kicked leaves off grass they grazed on. Next came a rough legged Arctic tundra hawk (they winter in the USA), then a Red-tail hawk. Both pretty big. Three crows came by, yelled, and the hawks ignored them. They flew off, no turkey for them. Next was a visitor bigger than both hawks, a female bald eagle I had to check with a guidebook to verify. She hopped around, trying to nose in, but was chased off to the edge, then ignored. Happened again and she stayed, then darted in and flew off. Eagle got the turkey neck, I think. 10 minutes later, two monster turkey vultures landed and chased the hawks away easily. They picked away at their leisure for half an hour it seems, also ignoring the crows that came back. Watched one take 6-8 minutes fighting to get a turkey leg with most of the meat cut off but all the bony tendons on the drumstick still on, down in one piece. Turkey vulture – named because they are as big as a wild turkey Tom, simultaneously beautiful and super ugly.

For those wishing to try the human version – it’s not so much about the bird as which of the 500 side dishes and desserts and appetizers that can appear. Too much to comment on, so I will just say deep fried whole turkey is the best, and never ever get cranberry jelly as a side. Make or get whole berry cranberry relish. And in the upper Midwest, the ethnic Poles, besides making a special Easter kielbasa also make a Thanksgiving kielbasa full of pork, turkey, sage, mustard seeds and wild rice that is worth a try.


Willow Says:

I Have to say for once im in agreement with Chris Ford 1,in his post @ 7.22pm but only the first sentence, you cant begin to say Fed is better than Tiger, MJ, Messi, Serena or Steffi, because its apples and oranges, spot on well said !


gonzalowski Says:

Willow: and Cristiano!
Wog boy 😀


Willow Says:

Gonzo True there are so many sporting greats, not just the one ….


Okiegal Says:

@CF1….. The men in my family always deer hunt on Thanksgiving Day……and so do I. We have a cabin on our acreage in Oklahoma. I always fix dinner and take it to the cabin…… brisket is the meat of choice always. Tom turkey graces our table at Christmas. I know what you mean about the scavengers who clean up the land. You can gut a deer and the guts are gone in an hour…… we’ve checked this out before…..the buzzards start circling very quickly! We never have any pie left to throw out, however!! Lol. Best holiday day wishes for you! Okie


t4t Says:

I had Thanksgiving dinner at a restaurant. Stood in a long line and there were many families with their parents. Some of the parents were in wheel chairs with tubes in their noses but they all looked cheerful. My experience isn’t in the same league as CF1 or Okie’s ( I really envy you guys) but I got to see a lot of families looking happy!


Willow Says:

Its not something we do in GB im quite jelous of Okie ;-)


Willow Says:

Jealous


Okiegal Says:

@t4t………Being with family is what’s important…..whether at home, in a restaurant or at a cabin in the woods. I love taking the meal to the deer woods. We had a campfire and sat around it all cozy…..when I evening set in so did the chill in the air. I love to pile the fallen leaves into the fire and listen to them crackle! It’s our family tradition…….my favorite holiday of the year!

@Willow……… My father-in-law had a massive Indian arrowhead collection…… most of them found on his 200 acre farm. Byron found one a few months before he he died…..it was perfect. I was going through some of his stuff the other day and came across a matchbox, opened it up and there was a perfect teeny tiny arrowhead…….for birds……he said. It was stark white…….beautiful!! Byron’s younger brother got the collection…….spoiled brat!! 😡😡😡


gonzalowski Says:

Okie that’s worst than all the Switzerland or doping stuff!!! 😱 😱


Tony N Says:

chrisford1 Says: “Tony N – You can’t begin to say Fed is better than Tiger or MJ or Messi, or Serena or Steffi for that matter – because it is apples and oranges.”

You can’t begin to discuss this issue of greatest athlete/sportsperson if you believe that Tiger Woods is the GOAT of golf or Lionel Messi is the GOAT of football. If your understanding of these sports’ histories does not go back to at least Bobby Jones in golf and Alfredo Di Stéfano in football, you can’t begin to discuss this issue. Read on PGA.com: “10 Greatest golfers of all time” . Golf Magazine: “No. 1 Player of All Time: Jack Nicklaus” . Also read Links Magazine “Who are the Best Golfers of All Time?” . Also read ESPN: “Nicklaus wins ‘greatest player of all time’ debate over Tiger, hands down” . Then read “Is Lionel Messi the best player of all time?” in World Soccer.
http://www.pga.com/news/golf-buzz/10-greatest-golfers-all-time

Regardless, it is arrogant to believe that you or I are qualified to make the comparisons between the greatest sportspeople. Let’s agree to leave the judging on greatest athlete/sportsperson to qualified sports experts who understand sports better than you or me.

The Laureus World Sports Academy is the ultimate sports jury, who vote in a secret ballot each year to decide the winners of the Laureus World Sports Awards. The Laureus World Sports Academy is a true Sporting Legends ‘Hall Of Fame’ of 65 of the greatest living (retired) sporting legends. The great hurdler Edwin Moses was a former chairman of the Academy, now it is New Zealand former rugby player Sean Fitzpatrick. The link lists the sporting legends on the Laureus World Sports Academy. Former academy members included Michael Jordan, Pelé, Sugar Ray Leonard, Niki Lauda, Jackie Joyner Kersee, Michel Platini, Bill Shoemaker, Severiano Ballesteros, Greg LeMond, Yasuhiro Yamashita, etc. This is the most distinguished panel of global sports experts who vote each year on the most outstanding sportspeople, who are nominated by top sports journalists around the world. They understand professional sports better than anyone else – certainly much more than you, Willow or me.
https://www.laureus.com/academy/members

The Laureus World Sports awards give an objective experts’ indication of who are the greatest sportspeople since 2000, the first year it was awarded. Federer has won the most prestigious sports award in the world — the Laureus World Sports Award for Sportsman of the Year a record four times (out of six nominations). Usain Bolt later equaled Federer’s record of four awards (seven nominations). Tiger won two times (out of seven nominations). Messi never won (nominated five times). Nadal won only once (from three nominations) and Djokovic three times (from three nominations). Serena Laureus World Sports Award for Sportswoman of the Year three times (out of four nominations) against a field of sportswomen who are clearly weaker than the men’s field that Federer faced (pole vaulter Yelena Isinbayeva was next best after Serena).

So every year the Laureus Academy’s sporting legends (experts) compare the best sportspeople across different sports and decide who are the most outstanding performers that year.

In a similar way, a jury of the greatest living sports legends can debate and vote on the greatest sportsperson/athlete of all time. No need for you and I to engage in moot arguments.

On another issue, the top 1,000 male pro tennis players of the relevant eras would probably beat Margaret Court, Serena Williams and Steffi Graf, over 90% without dropping a set. How can Serena or Steffi be the greatest athlete of all time if you get thrashed by another player? The WTA rulebook expressly forbids male players from competing against women (but the ATP has no such rule). It’s ludicrous to compare male and female professional tennis players, then you’ll have to apply the same standards to include and compare all the other tennis categories (wheelchair, etc.).

chrisford1 Says: “What IF the Big 4 had all been the same age and started their pro careers at the same time at 18?”

It’s irrelevant to stop there. Since the issue is who is GOAT of tennis, why not have the top ten greatest male tennis players of all time all at the same age and start their pro careers at 18.

Federer will still probably end up with the most majors, the most year end championships, most weeks and year-end at No. 1, the most titles, etc. relative to the other ten players. The greater competition will stimulate his natural talent to rise to the challenge. The reality is that soon after 2007 Australian Federer started losing a bit of his motivation after three years of unparalleled dominance, yet his natural talent still allowed him to dominate 2007, then the mononucleosis in 2008 sucked a lot out of him. Since 2010 Federer has probably been cruising through large parts of most ATP seasons underperforming due to under preparation, relying on his natural talent and fighting spirit to win matches much of the time. Between 2011 US Open and 2012 Cincinnati Federer with the old smaller-head racquet won over 12,000 points to return to No. 1 again, broke the 300-week No. 1 barrier then lost interest… allowing Djokovic to end the year No. 1. Federer probably spends much less time practising on court than Nadal (and Djokovic) — something that Marat Safin recently eluded to. If Federer was more driven, both Nadal and Djokovic would probably have won 4 to 8 less slam titles in the past seven years as well as less year-end No. 1 because Federer would have won more. What Djokovic/Nadal fans fail to realize is that Federer’s generation started playing in 1998, so Roger feels that his primary competitive years were 2003 to 2009. Since 2010 Roger has been attending to his other business and life activities — the ATP tour has become a smaller part of his packed life than it was before. If he wasn’t so naturally talented, he would have dropped out of the top five a long time ago.

Willow Says: “All hail Roger Federer”, he is not the greatest ever tennis player that ever lived, he is also the greatest sportsman that ever lived, hes also the greatest human being that ever lived.”

Stop talking gibberish and fawning over Federer. He is not the greatest human being who ever lived.


Tony N Says:

35/36 year-old Roger Federer: “Best Points of 2017 Under Pressure”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jj9ofhZFPkA

“Roger Federer has elevated himself above his peers to be the outstanding sportsman of the era…
For the completeness of his athleticism, skill set, playing style, longevity and temperament, Roger Federer is the outstanding sportsman of the 21st century so far and it is hard to imagine anyone challenging that in the foreseeable future.”
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/15421816.Roger_Federer_has_elevated_himself_above_his_peers_to_be_the_outstanding_sportsman_of_the_era/


Willow Says:

Stop fawning over Federer, well if thats not the pot calling the kettle black lol


Tony N Says:

I ain’t no pot and you ain’t no kettle, lol :)

Once again, happy holidays, magnificent celebrations and all those good things to all: Have a wonderful Christmas, Hanukkah, Kwanzaa, St. Lucia Day and/or Omisoka. Stay safe.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIbt4rM5Odc


Willow Says:

Toni.N ok lets agree to disagree, lifes too short, HAPPY HOLIDAYS to you, BTW i love Ally McBeal and im actually watching the entire boxset as we speak, so many thanks for the link ;-)


Willow Says:

I Love this one best chrustmas song ever IMO https://youtu.be/j9jbdgZidu8 ….


Willow Says:

christmas


j-kath Says:

Okie: I still have “hubbie’s” arrowheads from his geological work in Alaska and Libya.
Was before we met – some are framed – don’t know what to do with them??.
First time I made Thanksgiving for friends of his I left the plastic bag inside the turkey!


Okiegal Says:

@JK…….You are not the only one I have heard that’s left the giblets inside the turkey! Lol We live and learn!

About your arrow heads……they would require a study about age and kind……but I suppose I suppose it’s possible Walter knew these things. Some are very valuable……keep them and have them appraised….you never know!


Okiegal Says:

@Gonzo……What are you referring to that’s worse than Switzerland and doping??? Enlighten me please…OK??


gonzalowski Says:

😀😀😀 I was just kidding, with the stuff that of this brat and the arrows.


Willow Says:

Regarding the giblets in the turkey me too lol and yuck ….


Tony N Says:

Willow, you’re welcome. Enjoy the Ally McBeal. Thanks for the wonderful Irish Christmas song, hilarious lyrics.

You have much to be happy about with Rafa Nadal under Uncle Toni. They kept putting in the hard work and maximized on his talent.
http://metro.co.uk/2017/11/27/marat-safin-explains-why-rafael-nadal-is-far-more-impressive-than-roger-federer-7110944/


Willow Says:

Toni.N Thankyou for the reply, theres no right or wrong answer for me, as far as im concerned both Federer and Nadal are amazing players, we are lucky to have both, again HAPPY HOLIDAYS to you ;-)


Okiegal Says:

@Gonza…..Oh, Ok…… I’m slow……in more ways than one! LOL!! Season’s greetings to you!!


gonzalowski Says:

ok, I did’t explain myself.
Same to you, vamosss!!!


Okiegal Says:

@Gonza…….Yes sir eee!! VAMOS!! 2018…..HERE WE COME!! Hope Rafa has another stellar year! But I will have to admit I am worried about him health wise…..we will see what unfolds down under!! I am thinking with the long rest Novak and Andy have had …..they will both be ready and chomping at the bits to get revenge!

VAMOS!!


gonzalowski Says:

yes, it would be good, for Rafa’s chances, that both are not yet completely tuned in January.
Bye!


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