Serena Was Wrong, Ramos Was Wrong, Osaka Is The Undeniable Champion
by Sean Randall | September 10th, 2018, 2:13 pm
  • 141 Comments

The ITF, which oversees the Grand Slams, just put out a press release in support of chair umpire Carlos Ramos for his actions in the hot-button topic of the US Open women’s in which Serena Williams got hit with three second-set violations during a loss to Naomi Osaka.

The statement reads, “Carlos Ramos is one of the most experienced and respected umpires in tennis. Mr. Ramos’ decisions were in accordance with the relevant rules and were re-affirmed by the US Open’s decision to fine Serena Williams for the three offences.

“It is understandable that this high profile and regrettable incident should provoke debate. At the same time, it is important to remember that Mr. Ramos undertook his duties as an official according to the relevant rule book and acted at all times with professionalism and integrity.”

So the ITF is backing Ramos.

The WTA isn’t. “Matters that need to be looked into that took place during the match,” they wrote Saturday. Then last night following the men’s final, WTA head Steve Simon had this to say:

“Yesterday’s US Open final resulted in the crowning of a deserving new champion, Naomi Osaka. The WTA applauds Naomi for her tremendous accomplishment.

“Yesterday also brought to the forefront the question of whether different standards are applied to men and women in the officiating of matches. The WTA believes that there should be no difference in the standards of tolerance provided to the emotions expressed by men vs. women and is committed to working with the sport to ensure that all players are treated the same. We do not believe that this was done last night.

“We also think the issue of coaching needs to be addressed and should be allowed across the sport. The WTA supports coaching through its on-court coaching rule, but further review is needed.

“Yesterday’s match showcased one of tennis’s new stars as well as one of the greatest players of the game. We look forward to more thrilling matches between these great athletes and hope that what we all witnessed yesterday never happens again.”

So let’s back up. This isn’t a men v women thing as Serena and the WTA seems to think. Men’s get penalized all the time for breaking racquet, coaching etc. However, you don’t see the top guys like Roger Federer, Rafael Nadal and Novak Djokovic take it so far because they know better, and especially not in a Slam final! Serena has taken that far in the past as we saw in 2011 and in 2009 at the US Open. She’s a champion, she should know better. And now the WTA (and the USTA), which owes so much to Serena, almost has to back her here. She’s their main attraction.

Serena also has to accept her actions. Her coach admitted to coaching which is against the rules. Maybe everyone does do it – like speeding – but DON’T GET CAUGHT. Her coach did, end of story, and she rightly got hit with a warning.

Yeah but Sean, it was so minor. True, but perhaps Ramos saw him coaching earlier in the match or earlier in the tournament and at that moment in the second set he felt he had had enough. We don’t know.

And while it was a ticky-tacky call, the result ONLY A WARNING. Just like a getting a serve clock time WARNING. You accept it and move on. And afterward it did seem to fire up Serena who broke Osaka’s serve to go up 3-1.

Then, after she lost her lead, Serena destroyed her racquet. Clear as day, that’s a violation, and since she had already been hit with a warning, by rule that led to a point penalty.

And then 10 minutes later it was complete chaos as Ramos hit her with a game penalty for verbal abuse. Watching what was going on, I knew Serena was getting a little overboard with her attack, but I never thought Ramos would actually take it that far. But he did, and per the rules (it’s a judgment call), he’s well within his right to do so. Hence, why the ITF backs him up. Ramos went by the book.

But as we see in Super Bowls and NBA Finals, and in the biggest sporting moments the umpires/referees wisely take a step back and let the players determine the outcome. This wasn’t the first round, this was for one of the biggest titles in the world, and Ramos should have let it slide, at least a little longer.

Then again, I don’t know – nor does anyone but Ramos and Serena – the real history between the two or what was said earlier. As ESPN stated in their audio playback, they couldn’t hear all the words that were exchanged.

As for Serena, nobody made her coach make those signals and nobody made her smash her racquet and nobody made her continue to berate Ramos. That’s all 100% on her. She has to keep calm, recognize the situation (Osaka was going to beat her anyway). And if she wants her coach not to coach her during matches, then she should have told him. She’s freaking Serena, he would listen! (And maybe he will be out of the job, we’ll see.)

And no, her being a mother, her being African-American, her going for a record, her being a champion, all that is irrelevant.

What is, is that 1) she broke the rules and 2) Ramos failed to recognize he was in a massive event that didn’t need his direct involvement unless it was egregious. And this was not egregious.

So I’m guessing if both could do this over, Ramos would not have called that verbal abuse penalty (or waited longer) and Serena would have kept her cool.

The only person who did in this whole mess was Osaka who calmly put the hammer down on Serena and the tennis world and somehow served it out.

I also wonder what would have happened if Osaka was called for the coaching violation (remember her coach Sascha Bajin was a long time member of Serena’a camp)? That crowd would have reigned fire down upon that 20-year-old. And there would have been no statements and no calls for making coaching legal. Well… That is unless Serena lost, and isn’t that what this whole thing is really about anyway?


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141 Comments for Serena Was Wrong, Ramos Was Wrong, Osaka Is The Undeniable Champion

mta Says:

Well said. My only quibble is that, while Ramos has some level of regret, Serena, not even a little.


skeezer Says:

Great read Sean & spot on.


Humble Rafa Says:

Sean,

What is this? I expect more from you.

Do you not have any career plans to work in American media? This will kill your career (and you will not be able to jinx anyone with your calls).

Your esteemed colleagues know this and toe the “American” line.


Czarlazar Says:

If someone’s having a bad day on the court and loses it because it’s her first (and possibly only) chance at a grand slam title, that’s one thing. But Serena has won 23 of them and competed in many others so she’s well used to the stage. Even if at risk of losing, she’s probably going to have several more chances at adding to her GS total. That’s one knock against her outrageous lack of composure and aggressive verbal abuse of an umpire who was enforcing existing rules. But the other is precedent: she behaved similarly (even worse) both in the 2009 semi-final against Kim Clijsters and the 2011 final against Sam Stosur, so she’s a repeat offender and hothead when things don’t go her way. Coincidentally, each time she decided to “go medieval” on an umpire is when she was losing. Afterward she comes up with lame justifications for it, such as standing up against sexism — puhlease! Just own it, apologize and move on. Above all, don’t take away the shining moment of a 20 year old who was thoroughly outplaying your ass. That’s just selfish and unattractive and the people standing up in your defence should give their heads a shake.


skeezer Says:

For the Novak Fans who have a “passion” for Serena(posted on another thread):

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2018/09/10/he-did-change-the-course-of-the-match-novak-djokovic-sides-with-serena-williams-in-u-s-open-incident/?utm_term=.d3211ad4fe4e

Yeah Serena misbehaved. So did the Ump. You cannot be selective in your rule enforcing, and there was a GS final in play, He handled it…..poorly…… and let Serena get to him. Obviously, He could have handled it in a way as to not disrupt the outcome of the match. Which is exactly what he did.


skeezer Says:

“Which is exactly what he did.” Meant “he didn’t”.


Jack Lewis Says:

“Yeah Serena misbehaved. So did the Ump.”

Sure the ump enforced the rules and did not take kindly to being called a thief, if that’s misbehaving, I hope he does it some more.

The one thing I believe he somewhat missed a chance with, is that he should have explained to Serena after her repeated “I don’t cheat” stuff, is that the coaching violation was not about HER cheating, but her COACH… and he even admitted it.
The “everyone else is doing it” defense was rather lame too… but not as bad as using the sexism card.
This notion that she was owed an apology… wow, talk about having your head up your own ass.


Czarlazar Says:

Ramos didn’t misbehave at all, except in your imagination. He enforced existing rules, which is his mandate as umpire. Serena on the other hand behaved like a colossal boor and was penalized per the rules. You say he didn’t have to issue the warning for coaching, which is true. But had Serena left it at that, there’s no problem and the match goes on. However, she elected to smash her racket (possibly to distract her opponent or possibly because she has poor self control), and after being correctly assessed a point penalty she then calls the umpire a liar and a thief. Her behaviour was weak, as is your defence of her behaviour. What the repeat offender got from Ramos was richly deserved and wholly appropriate.


Wog Boy Says:

Typical reaction of the cult member, just because you accept everything your idol says like a Holly Bible doesn’t mean the other fans do the same.
For a difference of The Cult members Nole fans make their own mind and they have their own mind.
Nole didn’t have a choice but to say what he said and I am happy he finally learned the lesson. Nole knows how much he is “loved” in the western world, particularly in America (even Navratilova had to say something about American behaving towards Nole the other day) and didn’t wanted to make it worse particularly being in America and seeing how they backed Serena in this case.
Nole is very wrong in saying that it changed the course of the mach since Osaka was thoroughly outplaying Serena until that moment.
I can give you the link from Serbian papers and TV where Nole’s opinion was posted, 9 out of 10 people disagreeing with him but 9 out of 10 people are happy he said it that way and not making any waves unnecessarily, particularly being in America where he is “adored”.
So now go back to your temple, ring the bell, it’s a prayer time.
BTW, try to find Navratilova interview from few days ago about why Americans “love” Nole unreservedly, like the “loved” her and Lendl, even after they become American, I would just add Monika Seles and basically any other Eastern European, fact!!


Wog Boy Says:

Czarlazar,
Good to see you, don’t waste your breath, he knows all of that.

Good to see you, not a bad few months in the office for Nole, btw, you and me know why Nole said that for Serena even he doesn’t really think so;)


skeezer Says:

Czarlazar,
I do not know if you are directing your comment at me, but if you are, note I said “Yeah Serena misbehaved”. Did you read Novak’s comment? This is my point I was pointing out.


J-Kath Says:

Apologies for posting the terrible cartoon of Serena – but if you scroll quickly you’ll see one of Kyrios which is hysterical.

http://www.dailyedge.ie/kathy-griffin-and-jk-rowling-were-among-those-furious-at-a-racist-depiction-of-serena-williams-in-an-australian-cartoon-4228779-Sep2018/


Czarlazar Says:

Skeezer: You also said “So did the Ump,” which I totally disagree with. And I did read Novak’s comment, which was obviously written by a PR consultant and he dutifully read it verbatim. Fluffery which means nothing. BTW, Nole has had his run ins with Ramos, as has Nadal, but they didn’t entirely unravel and make asses of themselves. Unlike Serena, who goes unhinged time after time after time. How many times does she have to do it before people like you stop defending her?


Wog Boy Says:

“ And I did read Novak’s comment, which was obviously written by a PR consultant and he dutifully read it verbatim.“
Spot on, every Nole fan knows that’s not what Nole thinks, but we commend him for finally learning the lesson and not making the comments that reporters will jump on immediately, this way they are off his back.


Czarlazar Says:

WB: glad you’re back commenting also and it’s always refreshing to read common sense input such as yours. I am so happy that Nole is back winning on the court but happier still that he’s kicked out the weirdos and losers from his inner circle and turned his life around. Also, now that he’s back on top, I’m sure Jelena will stop philosophising, enjoy the ride, and concede that Nole is the one who wears the trousers in the family.


skeezer Says:

Czarlazar,
And I disagree with you regarding the ump. Furthermore, it shows you are not open to a comment approved by the man you following tennis, and think it was “Fluffery”. I do respect your point of view, so no harm no foul there. And again I am not defending Serena, she could have handled herself much better for sure. But this ump imo doesn’t deserve a pass, he was given the authority to manage and officiate this match without affecting the outcome, and he did. He has his part in it also.


Wog Boy Says:

Czarlazar, thanks and agree, but first we have to say thank you to Agassi and Stepanek for rightfully dumping Nole after his stupid behavior with his guru entourage during northamerican spring tours and then special thanks to Vajda for laying down the rules of engagement before he accepted to come back, No more gurus in any visible vicinity and no more veganizam, we all saw results within six weeks as that Swiss dietitian predicted, Swiss was right, sometimes they are right;)

So ones more, Thank You Vajda for saving Nole’s career, the best tennis player of his era.


Wog Boy Says:

JK,
Thanks, I’ve seen them and they are hilarious. Aussies have good sense of humor and go hardest on their own, not like some others. I credit that to their British background, my experience is that British accept jokes about them, do them themselves on their own experience but also come back to you with jokes about you.
The problem is, there is strong PC police, as of lately, and even with these cartoons the first card they played was racist and sexist card, which becomes annoying.

So PC police, leftists, junkies and dole bludgers came out in force to declare them racist and sexist…but they lost, Aussies likes good healthy jokes.


chofer Says:

Political corrections id the number one obstacle for art whivh, by definition, is FREE.

Amazing cartoons both.

No apologies.


chris ford1 Says:

J-Kath -
I am glad you ran the cartoon of Kyrgios – that was priceless! And the same cartoonist that held Williams to account. The problem with any cartoon of a misbehaving black person has to pass through the Left’s hyper-racial sensitivity test.
Why the left-leaning media had such caution over Obama cartoons after a half decade of showing Bush as a stupid chimpanzee – is duplicated in other arenas. Had a cartoon of Obama surfaced as a clueless chimp – well, shock! outrage! firing! would not have been enough for the usual game played by the perpetually offended activists and media.
Because he was black. That would “feed a stereotype”, so the cartoonists smartly avoided any such cartoon about Obama in the Highest.
And with respect to any depiction of misbehaving blacks consumed with rage – it is automatically racist. Because, as I guess, that feeds “stereotypes”
And why PR consultants to people like Djokovic and Murray say defend the belligerent black party no matter what, or remain silent.
If I worked in the media, I would be falling over myself with praise for Serena’s conduct as “groundbreaking, righteous anger” – in the name of job security.


Margot Says:

The cartoon depicting Serena was disgusting. And how hilarious, not, that Osaka was depicted as a white woman with a blonde pony tail. I believe this is called racism. The man is a Neanderthal.


Wog Boy Says:

Actually Osaka has colored pony tail and that’s how she was depicted, check the facts and photos of Osaka, she was not depicted as white, I was waiting for someone to say that like that idiot who tweeted that in that link without checking that Osaka has colored pony tail, excatly like in the cartoon.
Besides, Osaka is half white, Asian white and represents Japan, anything wrong with that?


Van Persie Says:

Totally agree with those ones explaining, why Nole “defended” Serena. Does not mean I have to agree with Nole.
Nole got also punished by the same unpire at FO 2016 for a gesture, which was interpreted by Carlos as “bad attitude”.

I like Martina’s point of view here:

http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2018/09/10/martina-navratilova-criticizes-serena-williams-behavior-at-us-open-final.html

More on umpires below:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/umpires-may-boycott-serena-williams-matches-after-outburst-at-us-open-final-fwgv97swz


Van Persie Says:

I added a link on another tread, whit what happened with an umpire in 1979 due to Nastase’s poor sportsmanship during the match vs. Mc Enroe. A shame that the umpire’s career was ruined after that.
To add, Nastase was more “gracious’ in defeat towards Mc Enroe, he invited John Mac to dinner afterwards;)

I do not like Nastase, but he did not play the “racist card” during his career, the way Serena did, starting an “activist war”. Oh, and he was called “gipsy” soo many times.

We normally do not like umpires, but they deserves also respect. They are only doing their jobs and they have also families.


Van Persie Says:

Nastase was at least not an hypocrite. Serena is an hypocrite.


Van Persie Says:

Serena has faced racism at the beginning of her career, totally agree on this one, but she also admitted, she had never imagined, she might marry a white person once. So, she was also racist in the past, one can say, no?


Wog Boy Says:

Don’t say that about Nasty, I loved him, every bit of him and his character:)) He is the man.
What I am really pissed off with continuously bringing Serena’s “tough” upbringing, really?
9 out of 10 Eastern European players had far harder upbringing and hardship growing up than Serena, plus they have to fight for respect in the west and yet you never heard them complaining.
Now they want us to feel sorry for Serena and her childhood, why? Was she hungry, did her parents risked their civil liberties by playing tennis and traveling abroad, did they have passports and could travel freely and so many things that Eastern European players were denied by their governments and yet they soldered on.


quadrangle Says:

When a player has already lost twice before in the late stages of the US Open because of epic tantrums, why would they ever risk it again?

Only reason I can think is it’s a next-level power move – I have 100% support of a large partisan crowd and I’m so legendary I can afford to throw away grand slams to win an argument. I’m gonna get you booed off court for defying me.


Margot Says:

So Wog Boy, are you also defending that image of Serena? And don’t call me a “some idiot” please, merely because we have a difference of opinion.


Van Persie Says:

WB,

well, when I see some videos with him from the past, I have to admit, I am laughing at some of them. :)
But he did some mistakes


Wog Boy Says:

Firstly, I didn’t call you idiot but the person who stated Osaka was depicted as white and you just repeated it.
Secondly it is not about difference in opinion but making false statment as I proved to you.
Lastly, yes, I don’t see anything wrong with Serena’s cartoon, everybody is depicted with some personal characteristics, Nole with the ears that can make sunshade for two people, and Serena screaming and jumping on her racquet with her muscular body, big mouth and curly hair, what is not right there?


Van Persie Says:

“Now they want us to feel sorry for Serena and her childhood, why? Was she hungry, did her parents risked their civil liberties by playing tennis and traveling abroad, did they have passports and could travel freely and so many things that Eastern European players were denied by their governments and yet they soldered on.”

If Serena had been a black person coming from Eastern Europe, we would not have this discussion here for sure.


Van Persie Says:

Racism will never die completely, not in this millennium, but Serena will not bring “peace in the world” with her attitude. She will make it worse. She’s not exactly Nelson Mandela.


Wog Boy Says:

We all do VP, if I can bring time back I would do some things differently but that’s my life and my cross that was given to me and I have to carry it.
I lived life for probably two if not three people, but as I got older the words from my late father keep ringing in my years every single day, I wish I understood them then.
They were
“Make sure when you get in your fifties you don’t regret what you were doing in your twenties”,
I dismissed his advice, I wish I didn’t. He was wise enough to see that was going “wild” way and wanted to slow me down, that was when I got out of high school.


Wog Boy Says:

^^ this was regarding Nasty’s antics, btw, hiw many kids he has, quite a few?


Van Persie Says:

WB,

5 declared, do not know if with the same wife. Lazy to check


Wog Boy Says:

How can you not love this man, come on:
—————
Maxim has placed Năstase at number 6 on its top ten “Living Sex Legends” list, as he is reputed to have slept with over 2500 women.[44] Năstase’s own guess, which was at 800–900 women, was too low for the writer of his biography who wanted a larger number, to improve his reputation, as it evidently did.[45] After hearing this, his third wife, Amalia, said that she was happy to have conquered such a man. Năstase met Amalia at a Sting concert and married her in a Greek Orthodox ceremony on 5 June 2004 followed by a Civil ceremony in July of the same year. They divorced in February 2010, after six years of marriage.
——————


Wog Boy Says:

^^^ Wiki


Margot Says:

Wog boy: She is depicted as a toddler having a temper tantrum, complete with dummy on the ground. There is a long, long history of the infantalism of black people as a justification of treating them as an inferior race and that fits right into that stereotype. I agree with the comment about Osaka, I did not parrot it.
VP: I don’t agree with you about your comment that a stereotype a black person from East Europe would not be challenged. Racism must be challenged wherever it raises its ugly head.
I do agree with you about Serena not exactly helping her cause tho. TBH I don’t think this incident was “manufactured” however. I just think she, for whatever reason, was distraught. The USOpen had assumed a significance beyond itself. Also agree with you from ages back, and Sean here, she should not have brought her daughter into it, nothing to do with the issues at all.


Van Persie Says:

Lol WB,

and he was not racist, Nastase slept also with black women. Well , Serena went a step further, she married a white guy :)
They are both “peace makers”

OK, off to work now.


Van Persie Says:

Margot,

“Racism must be challenged wherever it raises its ugly head.”
It is hard to call each case and to leave only for this. I am sure it will take mileniums until it will disappear. Same with Xenophobia. We have to be realistic, in order not to get ridiculous and see racism and xenophobia when it is not the case. We have many cases of positive discriminations, not ok either.

Am really off now.


Truth Seeker Says:

There are various ways to do this story, and Sean’s is one of them. If I could go back in time and if I were Ramos, I would have an option to pretend the coaching did not happen. On the other hand, if I were ITF/ USTA authority, I would assign a less rigid referee in anticipation that there would come an occasion to make a call that would favor Serena. But as an ethical person, I would do neither.
If I were to pen an article, in the aftermath, fully aware that we cannot go back in time, I would detail all 4 instances where Serena caused uproar irrationally.
Most importantly, I would highlight the fact that each time it happened in America, US Open in particular. IfI would pay close attention to what Serena said to the 2011 finals referee Eva Asderaki: “We were in America last time I checked. Don’t look at me… You’re a hater and you’re unattractive inside. What a loser.” I would underline the most significant fact of Serena’s claim of having more rights than others in America due to her subconscious sense of Nativity and xenophobia.
In my opinion, it is Serena’s sense of entitlement that provokes her into the type of behavior that has made the women’s US Open finals look really bad, 4 unexcusable times now.
First incident occured back in 2004 when Chair Umpire Mariana Alves overruled a line judge’s call, Serena argued with Alves: “I don’t need to see the replay. I know my shots. Not only was it in, it wasn’t even near the line.” This one was in the quarter finals. If Serena had been disciplined properly the first time, she probably wouldn’t get worse in the finals of 2009, 2011, and 2018.
In 2009, facing match point against Clijster, line judge Tsurubuchi called a foot fault, making it a double-fault. Serena threatened to shove a racket or ball into the line judge’s throat and choke her (reportedly, she said, “I swear to God I’ll fu *king take the ball and shove it down your fu *king throat.” Serena was fined $10,500, and most tennis experts agreed she should have been suspended at least for a few months.
Third was in the finals against Stosur in 2011 when Serena yelled “come on” while the ball was still in play and chair umpire Eva Asderaki ruled the point wasn’t over and so awarded it to Stosur, as Serena, according to the rule book, hindered her opponent’s ability to complete the exchange. Serena abused the umpire calling her hater and implied that the umpire had less rights because of her national origin. Serena was fined $2000. It should have been much more for repeat offense.
You all saw Serena not only called Ramos a thief (Ramos is known around ATP/ ITF as the man with utmost ethical integrity) but also threatened his job as if he were her employee. She berated and insulted Ramos for half an hour. The $1700 fine would only encourage her to do worse in the future especially if she reaches the finals at the US Open or elsewhere in America.

Sources:
Videos of Serena’s abuses in the past: https://apnews.com/a2b9dec43bed447ebfc621bbad374d59/'Always-something‘:-Serena-Williams’-past-US-Open-episodes
Navratilova’s New York Times article: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/10/opinion/martina-navratilova-serena-williams-us-open.html?action=click&contentCollection=opinion&region=rank&module=package&version=highlights&contentPlacement=1&pgtype=sectionfront
Guardian article on the 3rd incident (2011): https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2011/sep/12/serena-williams-us-open-tennis-fine


kriket Says:

The cartoon is accurate in depicting the situation. Mind you it’s not about the other player and the judge, so they don’t have to be portrayed accurately, it’s artistic freedom.

Americans have to stop holding the rest of the world to their own, slaveowners-past standards. We did not have African slaves, we don’t owe them any special treatment just because Americans did enslave them. That’s on America. They shouldn’t try to visit their responsibility on us. I don’t have to feel guilty because you had slaves.


Wog Boy Says:

“She is depicted as a toddler having a temper tantrum, complete with dummy on the ground.“

But that’s excatly what she did, she wanted her toy back, USO trophy, but thankfully she didn’t get it, much better player got it.


J-Kath Says:

I have to say that I was shocked by the cartoon of Serena. I did try to cut and paste the Kyrios cartoon on its own and failed……I thought the Kyrios cartoons were fabulous.

As for Serena – I don’t believe her motivation was in any way rooted in a genuine belief that female equality was being violated – her anger was at such a level that it had to be personal, and yes, the hurt of racism in her early years could well have risen to the surface…and that I can understand…but not much else.


Wog Boy Says:

JK, but is somebody wants to go the way minority on this thread are going than Kyrgios cartoon is racist too, he is not anglosaxon nor he is white, his father is a Greek and his mother is native Malay, so anglosaxon cartoonist is definitely racist, no? Load of crap if you ask me and I live here.
Both, cartoonist and the paper are well respected here, that’s what matters, not some UK (former colonial power) snobs complains.


J-Kath Says:

WogBoy: I did say I was shocked by Serena’s cartoon – but I didn’t say any of the cartoons were necessarily racist I said Serena’s rage at the GS was fuelled by festering racism from the past…(and not by women’s rights).


Wog Boy Says:

One more thing, slavery hasn’t started by Americans since they didn’t exist then, but by English in their colonies, namely Virginia in the beginning of 17th century, Americans inherited slavery from English.
My advice to Serena, boycot Wimbledon.


Wog Boy Says:

JK, I know you didn’t, I just addressed you as the last poster, sorry.


Wog Boy Says:

JK, one more clarification, “UK snobs” meant the complainers in the link posted by you, not the posters on this thread.


Wog Boy Says:

And just to finish, just watched the news and Mark Knight, the cartoonist was in news saying that his wife and daughter had received death threats, is that the way this world is heading?!

He was honest and asked “How you are suppose to depict African American than as African American”?

Question for those idiots, whichever movement they belong, obviously leftist / junkies / dole bludgers movement, who give you the right to behave like that?!


Margot Says:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_slavery
The British did not invent slavery. Slavery has always been a by- product of war. They did turn it into a cruel and barbaric economic enterprise, of course.
In fact I think the Romans first introduced slavery to Britain, using slave labour to aid their conquest.


Wog Boy Says:

I was talking about America.


Wog Boy Says:

I hope now everybody is happy because wife and daughter of the cartoonist can’t walk down the the street without watching over the shoulder fearing some idiot might slash their throats?!


kriket Says:

It doesn’t matter who invented slavery, obviously it existed before, but in modern times, the most vocal racism argument stems from America. They don’t understand that most of modern countries never had slavery, never abused Africans, don’t feel any inherit guilt towards them, so the racism argument is therefore irrelevant. I don’t necessarily know the history of racial abuse in America, and I don’t wanna know. Why should I have to feel guilty for their bullshit from the past.

I treat African people the same way I treat everyone else, no special treatment, no feelings of guilt.


kriket Says:

Same goes for Britain and all the other abusers who try to visit their own guilt to the rest of the world who has absolutely nothing to do with it.


Margot Says:

OK Wog Boy, understand now what you meant re slavery.
I think it’s awful that this guy’s wife and daughter are being abused, they have nothing to do with it, that’s life in the age of the internet alas, but likewise it has nothing to do with the rights or wrongs of the cartoon.
kriket: Are you saying that you think it’s just American people shouting, “racism?”
I think all the time, regardless of this incident we must come back to the issue of rules being applied consistently and fairly and players, both men and women, being treated even handedly.
Umpires are just like you and me, they like some players, I think it’s safe to say for example that Mohammed has a soft spot for Nick, and don’t like others. But they must be seen to be impartial.


kriket Says:

It’s mostly American and British, on social media of course. And if there are others, they are just repeating what they heard from those mentioned, jumping the bandwagon.

Of course, I agree with you, but this whole issue of Serena bullying the Ump, playing dumb (like she thought the first warning was dismissed just because she complained), ruining everything for everyone, worst of all Osaka, and then trying to paint it as something noble – fight for equal rights to abuse the ump – is just stupid. And you can read about it all over the so called “liberal media”. It’s so much bullshit that someone who hasn’t seen it happen with their own eyes, can’t tell facts from bullshit. And that’s exactly their goal. Mission accomplished.


Wog Boy Says:

Kriket, if this means anything to you, last time we spoke, we had bad fallout, really nasty one, but after reading your posts I have nothing but respect for you.

Margot, you are wrong, the situation about Mark Knight was fueld by intolerant people from the left wing organizing witch hunt on the people who they deemed enemies, typically communist ideology, been there done that, has nothing to do with internet but with brainwashed outdated parasites who are breeding like a rabbits.


Margot Says:

Thanks for your response kriket. I agree with a lot of what you say. It’s the downside of the internet I think, people find a bandwaggon and leap onto it. But not just the people shouting, “racism” people with a racist agenda are leaping on too.
I personally think Ramos is a pernickety,authoritarian twerp without an ounce of commonsense in his body, and absolutely no idea that a grand slam final is a bit of an occasion, but whether he’s a sexist, racist twerp, I really don’t know. As far as I can say he’s upset players of both genders. I’d have to look up his umpiring history. But I’m not going to do that as this is my last sentence on the topic,promise.


J-Kath Says:

WogBoy: I’m fine.


Daniel Says:

Shocekd by Serena’s cartoon. Osaka has white fearerus, a nose and a hon he doesn’t has and hair totally blond, not just the points.
Serena with a big noise and exagerare mouth (ontendo to make her look like a 🐵), no need to make her face like that. I am black and this the same thing with people complaining that everyhitnf is SJW bs. Only white person with a shady racism or not carrting so much for it wouldn’t take offense with it.

Its like when rich people say they don’t carr about money. Consescending much?!

That’s why racism will never go away in the millenium or ever. While people keep thinking its just a joke.

In Kyrgios cartoon he choose ears who basically offend none.
Trully Pathetic!!


Wog Boy Says:

Response from executive Chairman, though luck Daniel if if you feel that way, that’s your problem:

Exec Chairman of News Corp Australasia. Fan of creativity, great content and tech innovation. Passionate about good sport, good times and making a difference.
Sydney, New South Walesnewscorpaustralia.com

Michael Miller
@mm_newscorpaus
Criticism of Mark Knight’s Serena Williams cartoon shows the world has gone too PC & misunderstands the role of news media cartoons and satire. Poor behaviour in any sport needs to be called out.


Van Persie Says:

Daniel,

I really fail to see the resemblance with a 🐵.
It looks like a non-attractive, overweight and black lady behaving like a spoiled child. Really. Nothing racist for me there.
I can only see Serena’s characteristics exaggerated, but that is what a caricature does.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caricature


Mystic - Willow Says:

I Dont for a minute condone Serenas behaviour, but that cartoon was offensive and racist, but i feel for the guys family that could also suffer the repercushions ….


Wog Boy Says:

The irony is that wealthy black man from Brasil gets upset with Australian cartoonist (for no reason) besides all the hardships of black people in Brasil.
Why don’t you address your problems before you point finger to another country, I guess you can’t being rich black man in Brasil and part of establishment?!


Van Persie Says:

And sorry, Serena Williams is not very attractive. Sloane Stephens is an attractive black lady.
Now: Carla Suarez Navavarro (I like her very much)is a non attractive white ady. Maria Sharapova is an attractive white lady.

The caricature was more about Serena’s behaviour, than about the looks. The caricature shocked me as much as she did on Saturday with her antics, so very appropriate.


Wog Boy Says:

VP, I don’t know racial background of Keys but she is stunning, long legs, perfect skin, tall…I stand next to her in Sydney and I was tempted just to touch her, just one tiny touch, but I resisted;)


John Springer Says:

Some are saying it was more a case of #MeMeMe than #MeToo
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45471619


Daniel Says:

VP,

I find Serena attractive, more so than Venus. Her smile is beautiful. But to each its own

Agree about CSN


Wog Boy Says:

VP, just opened you link, no way Serena has a big mouth and lips;)


kriket Says:

Ramos is a hardass, but he’s a golden badge, meaning he already served as an ump on all 4 grand slam finals at least once.
And if we are talking about leaniancy, I’d expect less leniancy in a grand slam final, than in some common tennis match. I’d hold a GS final to a higher not same or lower standard.

She not only tried to humiliate him by calling him names, she also tried to intimidate him (in an “I’ll have your badge” manner). That’s completely unacceptable behaviour in a GS final, and I don’t see that he could have done anything different given the circumstances.

Re. cartoon: what I see when I look at it is a big baby Serena throwing a tantrum on court while losing. I don’t see a black person drawn in a derogatory manner, I don’t see the similarity to racial cartoons from 100 years ago (which I’ve never even seen), I don’t see any impropriety. I just see an angry Serena. And that’s what the artist was going for. He is not from America and I’m sure he does not have any racial agenda, just like I don’t.


Van Persie Says:

Daniel,

When smiling or being sobre, Serena is charismatic and she is also pretty. But I would not say, she is beautiful. But, this is subjective.

When she is angry, she looks ugly, and each of us can have moments of ugliness.

WB,

:)


Van Persie Says:

I am only afraid, the word “black” will be erased from vocabulary, with so much PC.

Am off now


Daniel Says:

I will condone racism any where I see it, any media, any form!


Mystic - Willow Says:

Sometimes people dont look attractive in work wear, but you can put ladies in a nice dress, wearing make up, or put a man in a suit, and its a complete transformation ….


Mystic - Willow Says:

Daniel eh you will, was that mis- spelling on your part ?


skeezer Says:

To me all this stuff is another conversation so staying out of all the stuff. This is about Tennis right? The heart of the matter is the ability to take away a critical game in one of the biggest matches the womens tour has to offer, and single handily change the direction and course of the match. Rules, and how to govern them, need to change. I mean why not default her then? They had the power to do that also according to the ATP rules. Unacceptable.

Should a player berate a ump? Go on and on? No, but they never really addressed the situation since the 70’s when it evolved. They had decades to figure it out and they are still stuck in the stone ages. Rules are suppose to change, shift as the game grows and changes. Players in all sports will always find ways to push the rules boundaries.


Wog Boy Says:

@8:43 am

Spot on article.


Daniel Says:

I tend to type fast M-W and don’t read back;-)


lylenubbins Says:

Good post Sean.


J-Kath Says:

Rounded, neutral, article posted by John Springer.
There’s one more article to post (if I can find it) re. instructions given to Ramos following the OTT occasion re. Kygrios.


Giles Says:

Wow. Serena looks really scary in those pics VP posted. 😱


J-Kath Says:

OK – couldn’t quite find the specific article….so am posting as below which does discuss the situation to some degree – this is my last posting on this subject:

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/sep/11/tennis-umpires-union-serena-williams-us-open-final-carlos-ramos


Mystic - Willow Says:

Giles in my link of the wedding pictures she looks beautiful though ….


chris ford1 Says:

Margot, the problem with white liberals such as yourself is that whenever a black is criticized, or a cartoon is drawn of a black person, a fairly significant percentage of white liberals eagerly protrude their racism antenna – much like their sexism, LGBTQQ, Islamophobia antennal.
Hoping, hoping, hoping!!! to find a new cause and to express their shock, outrage! to other guilty white liberals. In the virtue signalling ritual they love to do. Often these days, white liberals and for sure hard left whites form electronic lynch mobs to go after anyone they thing Offends! PC.

Cartoons involve exaggerated facial features. And these days it is nearly impossible to do a cartoon of any black person’s most prominent features that will not get a “this racist must be fired, family get death threats” white liberal/leftie lynch mob going.

After almost 30 years of the liberal/leftist/black activist politics of shock!, outrage!, and social justice lynch mobs going after offenders – it’s time to pull it back. Give it a rest. All it does is divide people into Balkanization by identity groups. And that heads to real conflict eventually, the type the Balkans have suffered from for millennia.

It’s not like the cartoonists, going back to ancient times in Greece, China, Egypt, the Roman Empire did not regularly depict whites and Asians as having apelike features, as savages, being corpulent and lazy, depicted as angry with facial features amusingly (in the cartoon) distorted by anger. Or low life Asian and white women depicted as ho’s with a gaggle of motley miscreant kids surrounding them. So the hypersensitivity by the usual PC police crew for blacks is actually patronizing.

Bush as chimp, Trump as orange ape – no problem with the cartoonist. Obama as ape – firing offense. A black thug and white goon in Londonistan depicted as a monkeys – disgustingly racist – Labour & Marxist stalwarts claim for giving the black thug monkey features. But no problem with the white Brit depicted as a goon…

Criticism is the same – you can criticize whites, Asians, and Hispanic people for a range of negative traits or behaviors – but none such negative attributes can be used to criticize a black person if they “feed negative stereotypes”, which are generally the same negatives since blacks are also human beings with the same flaws and foibles as other races.


Humble Rafa Says:

Serena Williams is not very attractive. Sloane Stephens is an attractive black lady.
Now: Carla Suarez Navavarro (I like her very much)is a non attractive white ady. Maria Sharapova is an attractive white lady.

VP,

Asking for myself. What about Xisca?


Mystic - Willow Says:

Theres a problem with racists, most of them dont even realize they are one ….


Mystic - Willow Says:

Humble Rafa shes gorgeous, your girlfriend actually has a look of my best friend ….


SG1 Says:

Agree with Sean except for him saying Ramos was also wrong.

Serena has managed to twist this into something it’s not thereby obfuscating the fact that she’s both a liar and a cheat. Despite denying that she ever cheats, it’s clear from Mouratoglou’s statement that she clearly does cheat. A real “leader takes responsibility and shows contrition. She’s turned into just another entitled tennis brat with pockets so deep she’s thinks she’s bigger than the sport. If I hear one more ESPN commentator fawn over her and call her the GOAT, I’m going to toss my cookies. The GOAT is still Graf (at least in my mind).

Singles tennis is a one-on-one sport and coaching doesn’t belong in it at game time. For those who believe in equality, what’s so fair about a 23 time slam champion with zillions of dollars for coaching playing someone who can barely afford a coach let alone an elite one? At least let the on-court battle be the equalizer.

Speaking of equality, I remember Johnny Mac getting ejected from a match in Australia for crossing the line back in 1990 or 1991. He just kept after the umpire until the umpire had enough. And for those who say Serena’s not Johnny Mac, that’s true, but she’s not Mother Theresa either.


Daniel Says:

For Nadal fans:

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/tennis/1014895/Rafael-Nadal-injury-update-Spain-star-Davis-Cup

Sidelined for at least 1 mont, out of DC and Beijing. May return for Shangai but I doubt it.


Mystic - Willow Says:

Thanks but no thanks Daniel , i think ill give it a miss sorry, especially if its the press having another dig, Nadal fans stomach enough on that score ….


Daniel Says:

No M-W, its just an update saying he is not attending DC and is out for 1 month and the type of injury he had on his patellar tendom.


Van Persie Says:

HR,

Why do you ask? Need my approval? I thought Oncle Toni gave you his blessing already ;)


Humble Rafa Says:

Why do you ask? Need my approval?

I don’t look at other women like you do, just Xisca. Since you appear to be an expert, I thought I would get your esteemed opinion.

Uncle Toni is a great uncle, he sometimes says things to make him happy.


Van Persie Says:

“I don’t look at other women like you do, just Xisca.”

Well, since Xisca can look at other women, like I do, you might ask her then :)


chofer Says:

If I were American, I would be A WHITE LIBERAL. No question that. That’s for sure.

As a LIBERAL, I will allow freedom of expression. That cartoon of Serena might be offensive to some. Deal with it. The author is allowed to express himself. That’s what I think a real liberal would like, even in disagreement.
Taking this to the extreme bring some cultural issues I think I’m not confident enough tom discuss here,due to my limitations with the language.

I don’t see racism in there Margot. I see a woman having a tantrum for the ages, while other woman asking the ump to “let her win” to stepthat tantrum.

Perhaps the way Serena is “drawn” might stir the issue.

I’m color blind. I saw an unnecesary tantrum. One I would have criticized the same if a white boy (McEnroe, Djokovic, Federer, Del Potro, whoever) had protagonized.

I wonder what would happen if one of them (or Naldal,too) would have been in the same shoes as Serena.

Would have brought out the discussion of racism?

I don’t think so.

Everyone of us would say that the ump wouldn’t know how to handle that and about the player “what a jerk” with reason.

It’s more simple to me. Serena has had a history of bad temper before. She’s no different than Alize Cornet, McEnroe, Nastase or other woman/man regardless gender/color infamous for those situations as well as famous for being inarguable champions.

To bring all the fault on Ramos to me seems unfair and especially hypocritical. He had his fault for giving her a harsh penalty instead of warning her before by word. So did Serena, for not accepting a penalty she did know couldn’t be overturned and stir the audience with his shouting to the court authority regardless of who were right or wrong. She’s no rookie. She should have known better. It was uncomfortable to see for all of us. Imagine her opponent.

The only “victim” here was Osaka.


Andy Mira Says:

Daniel….Thanks for the link!…Yeah…i already can guess he will DC,Beijing & i hope if his knee is not well enough skip Shsnghai or even Paris…or better still shut down his season & concentrate on rehab & come out for warm up tourney in Dubai…but,that’s just my wish heh heh….


Humble Rafa Says:

Apparently, umpires want to boycott the Big Lady’s matches due to lack of support from the USTA. Wow. Never heard of that.


Django Says:

ChrisFord
Exceptionally spot-on opinion piece.


Wog Boy Says:

Channel 7 has done survey, big one, with a one question:

“Was the cartoon depicting Serena’s tantrums racist?”

Results were, 85% of Aussies said “No, it wasn’t racist” and 15% said “Yes, it was racist .”

Using thoe logic of some posters we can say with “certainty” that 85% of Aussies are racist.

On the other news, Mark Knight and his family got protection around the clock.


Django Says:

Wog boy
Around -the -clock protection because of a cartoon of a tennis player?
Amazing.


Wog Boy Says:

Yes Django, because he received death treats and his wife and daughter received them too, over one cartoon?!


Wog Boy Says:

Certain groups of people, I won’t name them but you know who they are, now resemble ISIS of the Western World.


Humble Rafa Says:

Around -the -clock protection because of a cartoon of a tennis player?–
I would think Patrick would need 24 hour protection also. I have been worried about him since Saturday.


Wog Boy Says:

^^^ Agree, he is dead man walking…if he is still walking?


rognadfan Says:

Damn! conservative pundits giving sermons about how racism and discrimination is a liberal agenda, in a tennis site. No doubt some of these are renowned gay haters too, and Drumpf is their superhero.

Why wouldn’t blacks be offended if they are depicted as chimps, that how your ancestors referred/treated them, and then traded them like what you now do on petsmart.

Of course Serena threw tantrum that was way beyond the line. Her coach did coach; it was not even borderline, it was more like blatant. So, Ramos in that match was right, if you ask me. It was too much to even watch at that point, really. It was culmination of continuous berating that she got that third violation.

But that’s not because she is black; It is one person’s nature not the black person’s nature. Just because she is black,she shouldn’t be depicted like an animal.That’s what was racist about that Australian cartoonist.

Some one correctly pointed out earlier. The sad part is that Serena doesn’t seem to have an iota of regret on what happened on Sunday.


rognadfan Says:

Wow, 85% of Australians said not racist (I guess every Australian participated in that survey). A channel poll is as good as its owner’s agenda. Like in the US Fox says 95% approve Trump msnbc says only 15% say they approve him. ISIS like factions exist in every corner, most of them are deeply conservative & religious who just hate another religion.
Australia is surely slowly marching to the direction of what those 85% said not.


Wog Boy Says:

“Australia is surely slowly marching to the direction of what those 85% said not.”

Says who, person with split personality?!

Go to 2:42 to find out who those 85% are:

https://youtu.be/mLHFqsUgwsk

One more thing, I dare those socialites who insulted Mark Knight and called him racist to go to Lakemba Sydney suburb where Mark was born and grew up and is very proud of his roots and tell residents that he is racist. They would be running for their lives. For the record, Lakemba is suburb with 60% islamic population of Lebanese, Pakistani and Bangladeshi origin, they know him very well a how big “racist” he is.


Mystic - Willow Says:

So he should shut down the season even if he is fit to play, whys that then ?


Bekir Emre Says:

Best article regarding the subject. Well done Sean. If all umpires acted like Ramos not many matches would continue up to their natural ending. Umpires are there to keep a match going and not act as if they are game-keepers. These guys on court are human and not robots or androids. And so should be the umpires. They should show some emotion/feelings. Lahyani’s conduct (re Kyrgios) might be unconventional…But it was human. This is what people who love tennis expect. This is a sport for human-beings. I dont want to watch robots directed by robots. And so should be their related institutions. Cheers…


chico Says:

Just putting it out ther in the chaos, one for equality between the genders.

1. Naomi Osaka, thank you for showing what the culture and heritage of the land of the samurai can bring out in an individual. Classy, focus on the ball, let the chips fall where they may. Let the best win and take it honestly – because when you fight fair, the loser can always learn, and make the whole stronger. (And this is not a punt against Serena, see below)

2. You do not build equality in the long run by forcing the issue. Even if you could smash your argument through with force, there is always going to be a backlash. So I call for you ladies and gentlemen who feel, like Serena, that you need to stand on a wall and fight this great evil to all costs, to look at Serena’s behavior, and distinguishing between Serena the bully, and Serena the feminist. You don’t lose a step for the fight for equality, quite the opposite, by condemning the bully. Advocating for the bully, just because she is also a feminist, erodes the base for the argument of equality. And that is why, if Serena really would like to make a point for equality, she would make a statement where she in her own words distinguishes where she believes she went wrong. Best to her abilities, no one can ask more. Let the progress go from there.

3. And Ramos, I truthfully cannot see how you could say he was in any way doing anything else than what a rule and order governor should do. Serena was clearly not only harassing him (even though she thought she was doing it for the cause, it was still harassing, plus a judge do not have the freedom to argument back in that situation) but also disrupting the environment of a Grand Slam final, where years of honing skills is to be compared by hitting a furry ball, not by words. We are talking about Osakas first and potentially only final, if eg. a turn of tide would cause a mental wound that would take a who knows how long time to heal. So thankfully, great job Naomi!


Truth Says:

When Serena’s father spewed about racism and she shouted sexism, maybe the issue was feelings of inadequacy.
She said she felt guilty being a mother while travelling tourneys. No one experienced anything harder than her. Her attitude & outfits are ugly, but it’s ‘not’ problem. It’s always someone else’s fault.
Osaka conducts herself with intellect and graciousness.
Her talent is too big for Serena.
Not anything common as the poor WTA servers.
Her life doesn’t revolve around money, hate, lies, male vs. female and crayon skin color labels.


Truth Says:

* to tourneys


SG1 Says:

If we see Nadal before the AO, I’ll be surprised.


SG1 Says:

Between now and next year, I believe Nadal’s going to need to find a way to add some speed to his first serve so he can get some more free points. 2 of the 4 slams are on HC and it doesn’t seem possible that he can run corner to corner for 4 hours per round and still be healthy enough to pull through at the end of the hard court slams. Even more so now with Novak clearly in the picture. The final was already 3 hours long. What if Rafa had made it to the finals? Each set could have easily ran 75 minutes or more.


Mystic - Willow Says:

SG 1 Geez not you as well, cant his fans just watch him win or lose with no expectations, and surely 17 GS is still an amazing achievement ….


Van Persie Says:

I hope Rafa will play the entire season. Do not want him to fresh for clay season ;)


Mystic - Willow Says:

Van Persie thats months away hun ….


Madmax Says:

Wog Boy Says:
Typical reaction of the cult member, just because you accept everything your idol says like a Holly Bible doesn’t mean the other fans do the same.
For a difference of The Cult members Nole fans make their own mind and they have their own mind.
Nole didn’t have a choice but to say what he said and I am happy he finally learned the lesson. Nole knows how much he is “loved” in the western world, particularly in America (even Navratilova had to say something about American behaving towards Nole the other day) and didn’t wanted to make it worse particularly being in America and seeing how they backed Serena in this case.
Nole is very wrong in saying that it changed the course of the mach since Osaka was thoroughly outplaying Serena until that moment.
I can give you the link from Serbian papers and TV where Nole’s opinion was posted, 9 out of 10 people disagreeing with him but 9 out of 10 people are happy he said it that way and not making any waves unnecessarily, particularly being in America where he is “adored”.
So now go back to your temple, ring the bell, it’s a prayer time.
BTW, try to find Navratilova interview from few days ago about why Americans “love” Nole unreservedly, like the “loved” her and Lendl, even after they become American, I would just add Monika Seles and basically any other Eastern European, fact!!

Boorish man


SG1 Says:

Mystic – Willow Says:

SG 1 Geez not you as well, cant his fans just watch him win or lose with no expectations, and surely 17 GS is still an amazing achievement ….

—-

Being a fan means having expectations…doesn’t it?


chris ford1 Says:

Djokovic, Simon learned their lesson about speaking truth or honest opinion with respect to feminist PC Even though other sports that have different men and women leagues are paid vastly different sums of money as the men’s game is far more popular – when the two players said that men should be paid what the market demands and if more revenue comes into the ATP – that is how it should go.
That led to a firestorm of shocked and outraged professional feminist activists calling for the firing or sanctioning of any male player guilty of such thoughts, threatening companies that they have endorsement deals, with and at least “re-education courses.” Which of course led to the PC defense which is to have “feminist icons” , “racial icons” Djokovic and other players were on good terms with, show up to hear apologies and then officially forgive them for their misguided words, which of course will – never, ever, happen again.!!!!! if they know what is good for them!!!!

After that crap, the fear of the Fascist Left targeting careers led to reflexive support for Serena.

As Madmax writes, Serbs understand the game (perhaps from years of communist rule) that as democracies become more intolerant and totalitarian and anti-free speech – it is important to say only what you are expected to say, and people caught up in the same system approve because they know the person doen’t mean what they say but are hapless souls just like them navigating the totalitarian/fascist system.


chris ford1 Says:

Margot – Serena is an American. So is Nagata (dual US Japanese citizen). Delpo and Nole are not Americans. So who do Americans want to watch?
But when you look at the global market viewership and what revenue comes in and what power of endorsements are worth, you can see why the women do not want to split the cash kitty up based on what portion of that cash comes from the ATP side and what comes from the WTA side.
It is not as bad as what the market shows for woman’s basketball and football being worth, and it’s a little better than the LPGA – but it is still a smaller sport with less money coming in.


Wog Boy Says:

Last time I checked there are other continents besides America, N. America is not the world?!
These viewing figures were for America, were they the same in Europe or South America, I doubt it? You don’t make conclusions on one isolated example and one geographical area, rather you take longer period and entire World (America is about 3-4% of World population), like last ten years for example. What were the figures for Penneta vs Vinci 2015 USO final? I know for sure they were pretty good in Italy.

Instead of saying “The first myth debunked.” which is highly inaccurate I would rather say “The exception proves the rule”.


skeezer Says:

2017 AO Final
“Serena Williams’ seventh Australian Open victory in the women’s final delivered a peak domestic TV audience of 2.42 million, and was the most watched program that day, beating men’s Big Bash Cricket final by 360,000 combined viewers.

Around the world both ESPN USA and Eurosport celebrated record figures, with the men’s final dubbed the most-watched tennis match of all time by Eurosport, while the Williams sisters spectacular drew the biggest AO women’s audience on ESPN since moving to a 3.00am ET start time”

http://www.tennis-tourtalk.com/17861/australian-open-smashes-tv-ratings-records-around-the-world


Wog Boy Says:

So how this:
“Serena Williams’ seventh Australian Open victory in the women’s final delivered a peak domestic TV audience of 2.42 million, and was the most watched program that day, beating men’s Big Bash Cricket final by 360,000 combined viewers.”

…compare to this, same article:
“On Sunday night (29 January), more than 3.5 million people in Australia tuned in to watch the historic final between Roger Federer (SUI) and Rafael Nadal (ESP), with the audience peaking at 4.4m and making it the most watched Australian Open match in more than a decade, beating the combined shares on Channel Nine, Network 10, ABC and SBS.”

That’s what we are talking about no, 4.4 millon viewers to 2.4, now go to Sean and ask cry and ask him to delete and ban me.


Wog Boy Says:

Men final 4.4 millon and women final 2.4 millon, so what excatly is your point, besides, I see I am moderated, fair enough, that’s the only way instigateor can “win” discussion.


skeezer Says:

“…now go to Sean and ask cry and ask him to delete and ban me.”
Quit blaming others for your woes. Apparently you created your own moderation, which is news to me. I didn’t. Go ask Sean yourself. Geez already.


Wog Boy Says:

Give us another link that proves our opinion, it looks like you have a problem with reading and understanding articles, I mean, who in their right mind would post that article to support Margot’s post. If I am her I would ask you never again to come to my aid.
As for going to Sean and asking for posters to be banned and complaining about posters, after 10 years of being here I can say with absolute certainty that you are well known crybaby who is doing that.
Now, another link to support Margot’s claim, please, I love them hahaha.
If you are my solicitor and we go to court, we would both end up in jail, that’s how good you are in representing your case.


J-Kath Says:

As VP said this topic will run for quite a while. For what it’s worth:
https://sports.ndtv.com/tennis/male-tennis-players-punished-more-than-women-report-1917206


Madmax Says:

Wogboy, you are so boring to read these days. Always ready to attach others who disagree with you. What is more noteworthy is those friends of yours who support you, say nothing. A bit like the republican party.

Wogboy, no one needs to provide evidence to your alternative facts. Do your own dirty work.


Madmax Says:

What will heal you Wogboy is watching the Wimbledon 2008 men’s final. Then you can cry with happiness.


skeezer Says:

WB,
It is an absolute certainty I did not “cry” to tennis x about your moderation. Apparently you did that yourself. Please quit with the bullying tactics.


Wog Boy Says:

Forget about being crybaby and complaining to Sean, we all know you are doing that, you didn’t answer my wuestion, what was the point of your 8:49pm post. If it was to prove that men’s tennis generates more interes and consequently more money, even when sisters are playing final, you proved it, but domething tells me that wasn’t your real intention, no?

I will have to educate you about one more thing dince I see you got carried away with this:
“…beating men’s Big Bash Cricket final by 360,000 combined viewers.”
evan I know, and I don’t follow cricket, that Big Bash Cricket is not real cricket, it’s ona day cricket invented 15 years ago to fill up season between test matches which lasts few days, if it was was test match (Australia vs England or India) nothing would beat then, not even Fedal since Cricket is still #1 in Australia, nationaly. I hope you got it since I had to break it down for you, as of lately you have a problem in understanding the thing, but that’s ok.


Wog Boy Says:

^^ to many spelling mistakes, but you will get it…somehow.


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