Djokovic Saves MPs In Thrilling 5-Set Win Over Federer In Wimbledon Final
by Sean Randall | July 14th, 2019, 6:26 pm
  • 181 Comments

Who would have believed the last of the 254 singles matches played at Wimbledon this year would be the one that would finally make use of the new 12-all tiebreaker. But that’s tennis these days when the Gods of the Game routinely play epic, timeless matches that will be re-watched and re-examined for many years to come. And so today…

Novak Djokovic met Roger Federer for a fourth time in the Wimbledon final. The Serb was trying to win a fifth title on the lush lawns but more importantly close within four of Federer’s 20 Grand Slam titles.

On the opposite end, Federer was trying to add distance between himself and Djokovic and Rafael Nadal on that all-time list, and become the oldest champion in the Open Era.

With that as a backdrop, the top two seeds and longtime rivals put on another incredible show, and in just under five hours, Djokovic did it again, denying another rival in a thrilling 7-6(5), 1-6, 7-6(4), 4-6, 13-12(3) nailbiter over the Swiss who held two match points in that fifth set.

“In these kinds of matches, you work for, you live for, they give sense and they give value to every minute you spend on the court training and working to get yourself in this position and play the match with one of your greatest rivals of all-time,” Djokovic said.

“I’m just obviously thrilled and overjoyed with emotions to be sitting here in front of you as a winner. It was one shot away from losing the match, as well. This match had everything. It could have gone easily his way.”

Said Federer, “I don’t know if losing 2-2-2 feels better than this one. At the end, it actually doesn’t matter to some extent. You might feel more disappointed, sad over angry,” he stated. “I don’t know what I feel right now. I just feel like it’s such an incredible opportunity missed, I can’t believe it. It is what it is.”

Federer hadn’t beaten Djokovic in a Slam in seven years, so a quick start would be critical.

Federer had break chances early in the opener but failed to pull ahead. The set eventually wrapped up in a breaker. The first set being so important – Djokovic had only lost to Federer once from a set up – and it was Djoko getting up quickly then winning the last four points for the lead.

Djokovic couldn’t add to the pressure inexplicably getting broken immediately to start the second. Federer broke again as Djokovic all but tanked away the set lead. Much like Friday in Federer’s win over Nadal, the momentum shifted in a blink.

Other than a set point saved by Djokovic at 4-5, 30-40, things went the server’s way in the third which ended in another breaker. Federer, though, failed to connect on his shots once again, handing a quick 5-1 lead to Djokovic who closed it out to go back up a set.

For the first three sets, Federer seemed to be the better player. He had more winners, was better on serve but his game left him in the breakers where the errors crept in.

With Djokovic starting to finally make inroads on the Federer serve early in the fourth, it looked bleak for the Swiss who was twice two points from dropping serve.

But out of nowhere, a pass, a double fault, an error and Federer would draw another break. He would break again before Djokovic finally got a throwaway break. A fifth was ahead as the crowd roared.

After no break chances the first three sets, Djokovic finally broke in the fourth and in the fifth, you could tell he was finding the range on the Federer serve, which also eluded him in Paris last fall.

Federer avoided peril at 1-2, 15-40 but under pressure again, he couldn’t handle a Djokovic pass at 2-3, 30-40. Djokovic would drew the first big blow going up 4-2. But the lead would be shortlived as with the shadows creeping across the court, Federer came right back in stunning fashion breaking to level.

Serving 5-6, Federer escaped a 15-30 deficit but otherwise things settled down while the tension built.

At 7-all, Djokovic was serving 30-40 when he saw a Federer forehand winner go by bringing the crowd to a fever frenzy. The break was his. The lead was his. All he had to do was serve it out!

Federer quickly and confidently went up 40-15 after ace-ace. With two match points, this should be it! Federer, though, would miss-fire a routine forehand and then Djokovic coolly came up with his own forehand pass on the second matchpoint. Novak won the next two points to break and level.

Wow. 8-all! Is this really happening?

Djokovic was down break points again at 11-all but survived (Federer missed a scary-close slice backhand pass) and then Federer held, we finally had our first singles 12-all tiebreaker at Wimbledon.

Could Djokovic win a third straight breaker over Federer?

He would again get the early lead then a finished it off after Federer errant shank ended the day.

“It was probably the most demanding, mentally most demanding, match I was ever part of,” said Djokovic. “I had the most physically demanding match against Nadal in the final of Australia that went almost six hours. But mentally this was a different level because of everything.

“I’m just obviously thrilled and overjoyed with emotions to be sitting here in front of you as a winner. It was one shot away from losing the match, as well. This match had everything. It could have gone easily his way.”

The first set was good then things went weirdly sideways for Novak in the second. The middle section of the match wasn’t great tennis, but the last 90 minutes was the most exhilarating, pulse-pounding drama on a tennis court you will ever see. And Novak was just too strong in those tiebreakers. Federer was just too error-prone. That was the difference.

Afterward, Federer admitted missing those chances was tough, but he tried to look on the bright side.

“I was still happy to be at 8-all, 9-all. I don’t remember what it was. You’ve got to try to see the positives, you try to take it as a good thing that you’re not down a break or that the match is not over yet,” Federer said. “If I could have picked it before the match to be at 9-all in the fifth, that wouldn’t be a terrible thing. You just always try to push yourself to see things on the better side. But it was definitely tough to have those chances.”

And of course the comparisons will be made the Federer’s crushing loss to Nadal in 2008 Wimbledon final.

“Like similar to ’08 maybe, I will look back at it and think, ‘Well, it’s not that bad after all.’ For now it hurts, and it should, like every loss does here at Wimbledon,” Federer said. “I think it’s a mindset. I’m very strong at being able to move on because I don’t want to be depressed about actually an amazing tennis match.

“This one is more straightforward maybe in some ways because we didn’t have the rain delays, we didn’t have the night coming in and all that stuff. But sure, epic ending, so close, so many moments. Yeah, I mean, sure there’s similarities,” he added. “I’m the loser both times, so that’s the only similarity I see.”

Meanwhile, Djokovic now has wins over both Nadal and now Federer in epic 5-set Slam finals. And he’s has now won four of the last five Slams and it doesn’t look like anyone is going to beat him other than himself.

“If this was not the most thrilling and exciting finals I was ever a part of, then definitely it’s top two or three in my career against one of the greatest players of all time – Roger,” Djokovic said. “I respect him a lot. Unfortunately in these kind of matches, one of the players has to lose and, as Roger said, we both had our chances. It’s quite unreal to be two match points down and to come back.”

For his age, Federer played extremely well and will rue those two missed match points. But he showed that he can still bring it. After all, he beat Nadal — something few thought he could do — and came within inches of another Slam this afternoon.

And his body held up just fine after a very tough win Friday over Rafa.

Will he get to 21? I don’t know. With Novak and Rafa both playing well, it’s going to be tough. But looking out over the men’s tennis landscape, all you can see are the Big 3.

“We’re making each other grow and evolve and still be in this game,” Djokovic said. “Those two guys probably one of the biggest reasons I still compete at this level. The fact that they made history of this sport motivates me as well, inspires me to try to do what they have done, what they’ve achieved, and even more.”


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181 Comments for Djokovic Saves MPs In Thrilling 5-Set Win Over Federer In Wimbledon Final

Joshua Says:

Congrats to all No1e fans. Let us all continue to hope for more victories for our Champ. The following trends follow every No1e Wimbledon victory:

1. He wins all but one US Open afterwards

2. He ends the year as World No 1

3. And he wins Aussie Open the following year.

So, come this time next year, I expect No1e as per history to have nothing below Rafa in any metric for greatness.

Go No1e, the inspiring Champion!!!!!


Andy Mira Says:

Didn’t c the whole match last nite..but it sounds fantastic like i xpected!…

Much much congrats to Nole & fans VP,WB,BBB et al…insyaallah he will win many more if he’s healthy & in this kind of form…

A very hearty commies to all Fedfans…Esp.my buddies Squirrel & Amit…Hate to c him lose…but..yeah..
Best of luck to Rog for the rest of season & onwards…


Andy Mira Says:

I win the Bracket RZ?Didn’t check it yet…but thanks for the congrats RZ!…

Hey!..thank u so much for setting it up for us all k?Much appreciated RZ!..👍🖐❤


Michael Says:

It would be too harsh to say that Roger choked at Championship points, but it is what it is and his tragedy against Novak continues reminiscing his tough US open losses in 2010 and 2011, both being two match points up, the former on his own serve. Novak is a undoubtedly a great fighter, but an unknown factor named luck is on his side in such close matches against his two formidable rivals. Roger would be definitely very angry, despaired and ruined because at 40-15 especially at Wimbledon, he had no business to lose. All that he needed was one well placed serve and that somehow didn’t transpire perhaps by the curse of destiny. And losing three tie-breaks in a single match is also preposterous. It would be fair to say that Roger had the match on his racquet and yet couldn’t utilise the opportunities that came his way and it was surreal. The only silver lining for him is that at almost 38, it is an incredible achievement for him to be the superior player for most of the final against a Champion like Novak in contrary to the prediction of most commentators and pundits that it would be the inverse with Novak holding all the aces against a drained Roger. So, the pile-up of Roger’s agony and misery continues unabated despite holding match points on his own serve and coming so soon after that loss to Del Potro. Afterall, even Great Champions are left at the mercy of God’s of luck.


Michael Says:

And what can you say about Novak ? Well this man has tremendous guts and believes until the last point that he would somehow win, and most of his opponents catipulate at the tenacity, resolve and determination of Novak. But for this match, I wouldnt give any credit to Novak because he was the inferior player who won perhaps due to the choking of opponent and winning those big points at tie-break again due to the shanking of his opponent.And to struggle so and being humiliatingly outclassed against a 38 year old does him no credit either. But he is now 16 in slam count and just two short of Rafa and four of Roger. He definitely has the age, attitude and game to pile-up more slams at his will as there is no one in sight. He will probably end up supreme on the final slam count when his career ends provided he is fit.


Michael Says:

“IF” doesn’t exist and so Novak is the Champion of Champions.


Truth Says:

Novak created his own bad luck. He piled the misery and passiveness onto his own shots, Fed was never leading the sets won and never won the important points.
Novak played a lot of deuce points and that added to Fed’s so called huge point count.
What matters is the ending. Not what cute shots and number of points you won.
Stupid retired players and floonatics can cry about luck but Novak won the points even when he played at 75%. Fed won nothing even at 90-100%.
The one with luck on his side was Fed. Roddick and injured Novak? LOL
Novak won match points and never had easy draws at Wimbledon, unlike
It’s not his fault that the floons & media overrated Fed.

He manipulated Nadal because Nadal had no game and was slow because of “age”. The match up excuse for Fed doesn’t work at all.


Ftoma Says:

Michael calm down. There is no consolation in losing whether you are geriatric or a toddler. That attitude reveals sour grapes making Nole fans only happier.16 and counting


FedExpress Says:

Hurts. Hurts a lot.

If Fed doesnt win another slam this will be the worst and saddest way to remember his last slam final. At his favourite surface.


Old School Says:

Some responses are self indulgent, selfish and ignorant. From one who had seen Pancho and Trabert live in the 50’s, I want you to cast aside your petty observations and understand what you saw today.Two titans of tennis, two men with skills we never seen before. It can be argued that Rodger Federer is the greatest male that ever played,and he threw everything at Novak Djokovic that he could, everything. And Novak won. If you cannot understand what Novak do today, if you cannot understand the significance of what Novak did today then you cannot understand the power of will.


Patson Says:

Best article I’ve read about the match, and about Djokovic.

https://www.theringer.com/2019/7/14/20693870/novak-djokovic-roger-federer-wimbledon-final-2019

The highlight of the article: “He’s learned to rely on himself because he can’t rely on the crowd. Of course this is all speculation—I can’t see inside Djokovic’s mind—but it has explanatory value during matches like today’s, when he wins in ways that seem to defy all tennis logic. It also has an irony that feels Djokovician in its essence. He wanted us to love him and we didn’t, so he figured out how to overcome us as well as his opponent. We helped him learn to win by wanting him to lose”

That is so poetic.


Van Persie Says:

I still do not know, how Nole managed to win with that serve… and Fed was brilliant.
Had Nole lost, I would have avouded to tell it: but I was very concerned yestarday, he might be injured again. We will know more in the next tournaments. Nole did never serve that bad in a final in the last years. Did not want to accept this before the final. What Nole did yesterday against Federer, who played lights out, is beyoud HUGE!

So, so proud of Nole!

Federer and his fans are proud for sure about the way he pushed Nr. 1 yesterday. But I am sure it hurts to know, you have done all the possible best, and did not manage to win against Nole, who was far from 100% an played not to lose.


Daniel Says:

Indeed Patron, the thing that posed the eyes the most was how cooled “Federer cold” like Djoko was throughout all the match.Hence why he said was the most mentally demanding match henplayes. He hardly over celebrate, didn’t raise his arm asking crowd support, he was just focused all match.Even after that awful 2nd set he didn’t change his body language.

Amazing attitude and commitment he brought to this match and it payed of winning a match he was behind in all stats ebbed longest rally was won by Federer.

1 point we can also say there is an element f luck but his demeanor was insane and indeed seems Fedal makes him lay better.

Having won 4 of the last 5 Slam, with Nadal only winning RG (so far) last 2 year, seems is just a matter of time for him to catch and surpass Nadal as Joshua mentioned. Than Federer’s final numbers will be on his sight.

If neither Fedal wins USO, 1 more masters and a few semis and finals should be enough for him to secure year end #1. He can only lose #1 ranking around Asian swing and that depends a lot, so he has at least 10 more weeks for 270, safe.


Van Persie Says:

AM,

Thank you 🙂


Tennis Vagabond Says:

Epic match. One for the ages. Fed was great, and Novak still pulled through. Novak is a champ. He has run up some really amazing victories over Fed and Nadal on the biggest stages the last few years. He now owns 4 of the last 5 slams, and he will be by far the favourite in the next two (US and OZ).

By next spring, he could have 6 of last 7.


Van Persie Says:

and wow, what an opportunity wasted by Fed,… 1 of that MP’s converted, and we can tell, he would have won perhaps the match of his career, hard to say as every won final has it,s moment and importance.
I agree here with Michael, it would have been humiliating… do not want to think what the media would have done of this.. The pressure was on Nole for sure

So, once again, thank you Nole!
Nole is now 3-0 against Fed in Wimbledon finals 🙂 Huge achievement


RZ Says:

No one plays as well as Djokovic when down match point in close matches. He often lifts his game and comes up with magic.


Van Persie Says:

Skeezer,

Nole beat Fed yesterday with his mind, which you should appreciate😉


chrisford1 Says:

Trends are good, but at some point they end. Roger owned Rafa off clay – until he didn’t in 2008 and was reduced to crying in anguish when Rafa also took the AO from him the next year. Then Rafa was injured and Fed ruled the roost again. Then Rafa came back in 2010 perhaps his best form ever with a truly scary serve – that he couldn’t sustain without more wear and tear on his knees and shoulders. But still he had no idea his trend would end with Nole 2.0. And for 5 1/2 years, Djokovic was on top, more or less.

I don’t think anyone expected the collapse of Djoko the 2nd half of 2016. But it as great in a sense that Andy Murray was able to get it together and get another gold, another Slam, year end championship and 41 weeks at #1…..and so on. Fedal was briefly back, then Djokovic returned in mid 2018..

The point being, I don’t know how long trends will last, like this one Novak seems to be on again.

However, two or three omens bide well for Novak….
(1)Fedal – Roger has played a full, intense season. He has talked often about how he needs to rest his body, ration his energy and mental intesity. He will take time off. Starting with Toronto, he said today. Sometime, in 2019, Rafa will finally get married. I think that will discombobulate him from his tennis focus a bit, even if they have been together…14years…no?. Also, he dreads Djokovic on hardcourts.
(2) The rest. NextGen is sure having their troubles. Andy is being smart, I think, slowly working his way back. I just don’t see him as a threat yet.
(3) Djokovic wants it. He is focused, Befote the 2nd week of Wimbledon, he said his goals were to play as long as Roger, get several more Slams, and “be the Historical #1”.


Wig Boy Says:

@Ftoma
You misunderstood Michael, he is very fair and balanced poster, I would even say with warm spot for Nole.
I keep reading his posts for ages here, doesn’t post as often these days, we had our disagreements, but always in a polite manner, what I cannot say about salty kilt members.


chrisford1 Says:

Van Persie – I hope you are wrong about Novak’s serve, and I think there is some evidence to support that things are OK. .

No one was talking about injury. Thanks to the powers above.

Becker said before the match that Federer has bothered Djokovic more than just about any player, because in some matches he can read Roger, other times he is almost just guessing.

Historically, that has been what many players have said – Roger has just about the hardest serve to read.

Post match, Djokovic said Federer out-returned him, not a usual thing, but he had issues figuring out what Fed was going to do with his serve, and right after, while Roger read him pretty well and had the better match on the return.


Van Persie Says:

CF1,

I really hope I am wrong, but compared to AO, Nole served pretty bad. Nole relied mostly on ROS (excepting TBs)and do not forget that his serve was a reliable weapon in the last years.
Of course, if I would be right, Nole would have not mention a possible injury before the match. No one would mention an injury before a final: would look like an excuse, in case you are losing, but you also do not want to send signals to the opponent. But I can tell, Fed smelled the blood, he could not only take the advantage.


Van Persie Says:

correction , should be: Fed smelled the blood, but he could not take advantage of it


Van Persie Says:

One more thing: no champion is brutally honest to tell in a press conf everything what happened during a match


Van Persie Says:

and Nole’s FH was also a weakness


Andy Mira Says:

VP…..u’re most welcome!

Nole’s mental toughness is legendary!…He proved it many times in the past that this 1 aspect & his physical toughness always brought him the success…He’s been called a human wall with a good reason!

Full full credit too to Rog for spectacular tennis that he still shown to us at the age of 38…


chrisford1 Says:

You may be right, VP. You’ve been right on many other things. :)
I hope though, Djoko is just fine!!

I just can’t conceive there will ever be a men’s final at Wimbledon where the two players have a combined 12 Wimbledon titles at the start of the match. That’s a record hat may stand, unless the 2 play again next year, which I hope for.

Jeff Bezos was there with his new girlfriend the reporter, Sanchez. His wife, who got 31 BILLION in the divorce settlement, was back in the US adjusting to being the most desired single gal in the nation. Bezos scored the royal box invite. Might have threatened to buy England if he wasn’t given tickets. 31 billion lost is not even enough to hurt him

Novak’s Mom looked great and it was awesome how she was back once again at a Fed match, jumping up and down, rooting her heart out. Somebody loved Novak in the SW19 crowd…

Djokovic showed up stag at the Champion’s dinner, wife at the hotel with his daughter and son. Think his parents went along. Simona Halep was at the dinner, looking very nice, said to reporters outside as she arrived she was a little terrified Novak would ask her to dance in front of everyone. Rod Laver guest of honor.


Van Persie Says:

Something what I like and dislike at Fedole: the 2 respect each other, but it is obvious, there is not much chemistry between the 2: that provides, for me at least: the most beautiful and tense rivalry of this decade, and am happy that my fave lis better ;)


Van Persie Says:

CF1,

thank you for the info, did not see anything in the media, if they danced or not.
It was a very though and exhausting match for Nole, and tennis pundits did not make it easier for him. It was so obvious, they made it tougher for him, so, I think he was not in the mood anymore to dance :)

Nole beat some omens yesterday:
1) I was afraid of Nishikori omen: this did not help Fed yesterday :)
2) I was afraid he might lose the match like Rafa at AO 2017, after not holding after breaking
3) when it comes to slams: when Halep does well lately (not necessarily winning, but going deep into a tournament), Nole does bad: not happened yesterday


j-kath Says:

Van Persie: Phew! I was holding my breath – if I’d been you I’d have had to go to bed. It was Set 2 and Nole’s meltdown that stunned me. Thought it was all over. Roger was on a high and the crowd were even louder. How on earth Nole came back from that I’ll never know. But he did – he showed stamina, perseverance and a bunch of other virtues right down to the last ball. An old Scottish adage springs to mind – in English – “Who dares meddle with Me.”

And Roger – he’s tough, committed, and brilliant and was no mean opponent.

Andy Mira: Well done lass – WINNING THE BRACKET!!! I want to know when are you starting your Betting Shop?


Van Persie Says:

J-Kath,

It was really exhausting..like I wanted to leave and to forget about it, but I was not able to do it. It drained me. lol

One observation, when I said Fedole is my fave rivalry, no disrespect to Rafole, but the fact, that I like Rafa, makes me digest loss to Rafa much better :)
But I have great respect for what Roger did in tenis, and is still doing


Andy Mira Says:

Hahahahaha….Thanks so much for the congrats JK!…
Bout betting shop…urgh!!…it’s shame it’s haram in Islam,if it’s halal i open it long ago!hehehe….


Wog Boy Says:

@Ftoma,

I am pretty sure you misunderstood Michael’s post. He is pretty unbiased poster, has been around for a long time but doesn’t post as often lately, and have a soft spot for Nole, imo.
We had our disagreements, but he never crossed the line of nice manners from the difference of me (not against him but some other posters.


Wog Boy Says:

VP,
Agree, Nole was, at best, 85% and even that Nole has beaten best ever 37 years old.

One question, my ears were burning last couple of days while I was settling in Beograd,
I am pretty sure someone was rubbishing me, if so can you please point the thread where that happened, I would like to have a word with those gutless creatures, thanks in advance.


Van Persie Says:

Haha WB,

Come on, it was only a bit of “teasing” :) Just ignore it.
What Nole did yesterday is already enough. Nole fought for you :D


Wog Boy Says:

Best article, it’s pity you can’t understand it, google translate can’t justify the quality of article but give it a go, and it was written by our neighbors Croatians who are not exactly our biggest fans (understatement):

https://www.index.hr/mobile/clanak.aspx?category=sport&id=2100900


Wog Boy Says:

AM,

Thanks, just for the record, I expected and wanted Rafole final, wasn’t in position to watch it, but what I hear, Rafa underperformed for whatever reason:(


Wog Boy Says:

“Novak Djokovic met Roger Federer for a fourth time in the Wimbledon final. ”

Let me help you out Sean, it was Nole’s sixth final, three against 37 years old (100% success), one Rafa (won), one Andy (lost), one Anderson (won).
So, it’s a three finals with 37 years old, one SF (lost).

3:1 on grass against third best grass court player ever, if we use cult members criteria that only GS titles (on grass) matter, not too bad not too bad.


Andy Mira Says:

You’re welcome WB!…Hahaha…Yeah!…i thought Rafa will meet Nole in the final too…based on his perfomance the last 5 matches b4 SF…but,like AO final, i suspect nerves & anxiety kicked in & everythings just fell apart& he start played passively,serves not working when he serves really well all tournament..do u know b4 SF,he serves 47 aces compared to Fed 42?…That’s unbelievable stats coming from Rafa coz he’s not known as a great server…

On 2nd thought,i was ok he lost to Roger too coz if he meet with Nole in the final,i am pretty sure he will lost again..


Michael Says:

Wog Boy – It is nice to learn that I enjoy your confidence as a fair and mannered poster. Thank you.

Novak fans should have completely misunderstood my post in the context it was made. I am a great fan of Novak, who is the first amongst equals in my fandom glossary. Whatever comment I made is not to disparage Novak in any manner. It is indeed remarkable that he played much below his best and yet was able to win, ofcourse at the munificence of Roger at crucial junctures of the match. Statistics don’t lie and in this particular match, Roger reigned supreme and if he was a little lucky without shanking some easy shots could have even won in straight or 4 sets. But then Novak had other plans; he found his steadiest times at crucial points in the match and stole not one, but three sets from right under Roger’s nose. What proved to be the ultimate difference deciding the outcome of this match was the magical forehand pass to save the second match point which will probably go down as stuff of legend. Still Roger could have won at deuce, but he choked helping the cause of Novak and if at Wimbledon, Roger couldn’t hold service where else he will ? To sympathize with Novak, the crowd behaved in the more uncouth and unruly manner and loathed him. Novak, apart from Roger was ranged against the crowd too distracting his game and testing his patience. But he took it in his stride. It is most unfortunate that Novak is painted as a villian when he deserves the highest respect. He is a potential GOAT in making in terms of holding all kinds of records : number of master titles, head to head against all his opponents, holding all slams simultaneously, dominance in two different surfaces, years as No.1 and holding positive head to head against two of the Greatest Legends this game has known. He is also the only player apart from Soderling who beat Rafa at Rolland Garros and he has given Rafa a run for his money on Clay too, a feat impossible for Roger who succumbed to the inevitability of Rafa’s dominance. It is also churlish on my part to dismiss Novak’s ability to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat as lady luck, it is not so because Novak does it more often to many players, but Roger has felt the heat more than anybody. All said and done, all ifs and buts cannot change the definition of victor and the fact is Novak has grabbed crown no.16 and poised to break the records of both Rafa and Roger.


Giles Says:

Federer blinked and lost the match. It was on his racquet so to speak.


Madmax Says:

Old School Says:
Some responses are self indulgent, selfish and ignorant. From one who had seen Pancho and Trabert live in the 50’s, I want you to cast aside your petty observations and understand what you saw today.Two titans of tennis, two men with skills we never seen before. It can be argued that Rodger Federer is the greatest male that ever played,and he threw everything at Novak Djokovic that he could, everything. And Novak won. If you cannot understand what Novak do today, if you cannot understand the significance of what Novak did today then you cannot understand the power of will.

July 14th, 2019 at 11:02 pm

Patson Says:
Best article I’ve read about the match, and about Djokovic.

https://www.theringer.com/2019/7/14/20693870/novak-djokovic-roger-federer-wimbledon-final-2019

The highlight of the article: “He’s learned to rely on himself because he can’t rely on the crowd. Of course this is all speculation—I can’t see inside Djokovic’s mind—but it has explanatory value during matches like today’s, when he wins in ways that seem to defy all tennis logic. It also has an irony that feels Djokovician in its essence. He wanted us to love him and we didn’t, so he figured out how to overcome us as well as his opponent. We helped him learn to win by wanting him to lose”

That is so poetic.

July 14th, 2019 at 11:34 pm

Best two posts on this thread.

An awesome match. Novak proved everyone right. That he would win Wimbledon. And it will be a match which will be remembered forever. Novak deserves the credit just for hanging in there, under pressure at the most critical moments. It was definitely all about mindset and he was able to hold strong.

Hope that his son too, though young, will remember his father’s face and the game – I am sure he will, as will Federer’s sons and daughters.

A match with the finest of margins but so, so exciting.

So very proud of Federer.

Sean, remember, Federer’s age, nothing to do with this. It was all in the mind. He was as strong as Novak yesterday, was winning when you look at the score.

Federer had/won…

More overall points (218-204)

Higher % of 1st serve points (79-74)

Higher % of 2nd serve points (51-47)

Higher % of points at net (78-63)

More break points (7/13 vs. 3/8)

More winners (94-54) And lost.


Madmax Says:

Old School, what we forget is that Novak has matched Borg’s score and remember when that was first done, and then surpassed, there was huge accreditation.

Well done Roger, for the match of the century. Only another 350 days to go before Wimbledon and I hope the result will be different for Federer.

FedEx, I hope today you are feeling better and listened to Federer’s interview. Whatever anyone says about Novak and Federer rivalry, there is deep respect between them both, they don’t have to be best friends, but I was proud of the things Roger said about Novak yesterday, in the most difficult of circumstances.


Madmax Says:

Borg’s five slams, what an achievement that is in itself! Federer surpasses this, and now Novak matches it.

Incredible journey.


Madmax Says:

But we have to move on from this now. It is done. Novak will have huge celebrations when he returns to his home country. As he should.

Federer, won’t mourn his loss for too long when he is on a beach sipping Margueritas I am sure! I suspect will not only miss Montreal but also Cincinatti, just a feeling….and then perhaps practise leading up to the USO…but any expectations of him winning this, are think are hopeful.

It is Novak’s to lose. Perhaps one of the ‘New Generation’ will break through, but haven’t we been saying that for years now everyone?


Van Persie Says:

WB,

I will try to google translate that article later, have to qork a bit. Was soo lazy today.

Regardung the crowds, yes, a shame ot is like this, but they did not beat USOpen 2015 final, fortunately 😂

The media with the demonizing articles have a huge impact. Heard of people, who did almost never watch a tennis match saying, they did not like Djokovic. If ine keeps on reading how unloved and boring he is, compared to the others 2,it gets inflicted in his brain, and nowadays, with Internet and tabloids, it is so easy to manipulate…

I do not wonder anymore and am glad, he has the power tomove on, as hard it would be. He is not loved by the majority, but he has his millions of fans 🙂


Van Persie Says:

correction’have to work a bit


lylenubbins Says:

Brutal match for Roger, I was rooting for him.

My take is that Novak’s top level is just better than Roger or Rafa and he plays as hard as he has to win. That is why he wins the tie breakers.

Sure seems like Novak is destined to get the all time Slams record. When he said Roger inspired him to play until he is 37, my heart sank and I bet Roger’s did too.


Giles Says:

VP. “ Nole beat Federer with his mind which you should appreciate”. Lol. You’ve been reading too many articles!


Wog Boy Says:

VP,
Yeah, agree.
Btw, when you get organised let me know how you are going with those catching up dates.


Giles Says:

Lol. Joker fans saying real goats eat grass.


fred stone Says:

Yes Nubbins.
So what if Djoker plays til 37, Fed’s going to play until he’s 40-42 and still be in the top 10, at least.
He’s proven too many people wrong over the years and he’ll do it again.


RZ Says:

Apparently the only area in which Djokovic outperformed Federer in the key statistics was the number of unforced errors. He had 10 fewer. I read that Federer made 11 unforced errors in the 3 tiebreaks and Djokovic none. That decided the match. https://www.wimbledon.com/en_GB/scores/stats/1701.html

I’m going to work on decreasing my errors…


chrisford1 Says:

Madmax – In Federer’s after match interview, which is up on You Tube, he said he decided with his team not to play Tornto week ago. But he said he will play Cincinnati.

VP -Djokovic was not at his awesome best, that’s for sure, but he did well enough in that latest Wimbledon classic that you can’t say he won ugly. And because writers and fans will still love Federer 20 years from now, the story will be written that it was one of the great clashes, Roger was magnificent as always but Djokovic played well enough to win and it will all come down to 2 match points Roger had bad luck on. They can’t throw shade at Djokovic or the Final because it will be one of the final, if not the final, Legendary Great matches of Roger. Yet more proof he is Mr. Tennis.

When I posted about the Champions dinner, all the news seemed to stop with arrivals and photos of it. I only looked because I was curious if Novak and Simona danced or not. Nothing was up.


RZ Says:

This was lost in the excitement of the men’s match yesterday – and most likely I’m the only one who cares – but Hseih and Strycova won the very much delayed women’s doubles title. They didn’t drop a set throughout the tournament, the first time that’s happened since the Williams sisters 20 years ago. Strycova, who at age 33 is pondering retirement, got her first doubles GS and has become the new #1 in doubles for the first time.


Czarlazar Says:

VP said: “Had Nole lost, I would have avoided to tell it: but I was very concerned yesterday, he might be injured again.”

Funny you’re the only poster who mentioned it, but I had the same feeling yesterday, and watched virtually every point (bathroom and snack breaks at changeovers). It occurred to me when he very bizarrely fell off in form in set 2 rather than stepping on the gas for a straight sets win, and he did almost the same thing in set 4, with intermittent spurts. That behaviour implied an injured athlete trying to conserve energy for the most important moments, especially the tiebreakers. Other red flags were the uncharacteristically high # of double faults and losses of serve, and also the difficulty he had to hold serve promptly after being up 30-love or even 40-love — including when he served at 4-2 in the fifth. I hope it’s not true but it’d be optimistic to think the elbow injury he had for a year or two went away last Spring and will never return.
My other comment is it’s funny how after each Grand Slam, many abandon rational perspective and extrapolate on the winner (usually Nole of late), scores more GS titles for the foreseeable future. Let’s be realistic, and I say this as a Nole diehard who cannot be happier with his renewed dominance and escape from cult influence: it’s not sustainable to win the majority of Slams on an ongoing basis, no matter how good you are. Nole has won four of the last five and is now at 16. To get to 20 or 21 as a 32 year old is not as simple as turning on a compound interest calculator. If he stays healthy it will be possible but that’s a huge IF. Rather than counting our future chickens, I say let’s savour this man’s gifts for as long as they last and feel thankful we were fans during his prime and those of his great competitors (Fed, Rafa, Murray and Stan). For Nole fans, his victories have given us joy beyond our expectations and even if 16 Slams is the final count, we’ve been blessed and can now die in peace.


NachoF Says:

Federer choked. It was embarrassing for everyone.

It is slowly becoming true that when it’s all said and done, Federer will be number 3 in total Grand Slams.


Truth Says:

Novak is always emotional and sometimes the stubbornness and desire to party and goof around destroyed his decisions & (mental & physical) health.
You still can’t count him out, as Fed witnessed many times.
Fed spent so much energy to get back to even so when a tiebreak came, he was annihilated. Novak saved most of the energy for tiebreaks.

With Nadal, what you see is what you get. If he’s really down, he usually can’t bounce back in Slams. He can’t really serve out of trouble or block flat winners back.

Age is just a number for Novak and he’s physically flexible so he recovers fast when he’s in bad shape. That really angers the evil Fed fans in the crowd.


Truth Says:

Nacho. Fed wasted match point but he already did that 21 times before.
More losses from lucky match points than anyone else.

Novak is different. He was the one that gave Fed too many free points and he kept calm because he could handle that problem & raise his level.
He already tanked from 4-2. He wasn’t going to tank again.


SG1 Says:

Objectively…Novak won the match…and he deserved to. He’s the best player on the planet without any doubt. He kept his wits about him in the tie-breaks whereas Federer simply didn’t. When Federer had his match points, he didn’t play the right shots. Even when he lost the match points and it was deuce, he was still serving (…and serving well) so he should have had a 85-90% chance of winning the match…but he didn’t. All credit to him for not folding up his tent after that. He got it to the tie-break even with those match points buzzing in his head.

My issue is with Novak fans who don’t see the small element of luck that came into play here. Federer, one of the best servers of his generation, on grass (arguably his best surface), couldn’t win a service game from 40:15 up and couldn’t win the game when it got to deuce when he still had a good chance to win it. The guy’s serve had barely been touched leading into the 5th set. One more service winner, one more ace…anything like that and the match is over. Novak didn’t have control of that. All credit to Novak because once the ball was in play, he played the big points better but the ball was on Federer’s racket. In order for Novak to win this match, he did need a little luck. He got that small stroke of luck and like a great champion, made Federer pay for letting him of the hook.


SG1 Says:

Even great players need a little luck sometimes.


Milos Says:

@SG1 All of that is true, however, Federer also had luck, since Novak was up a break in the 5th. One good service game and it would have been 5-2 in the 5th…


Van Persie Says:

Giles,

I was a bit sarcastic, there was a discussion btw Skeezer and Dave on another thread, where it was impled, only the mental factor would matter.

WB,

5 August would be ok?

RZ,

As a matter a fact is true🙂. Errors are very important, actually avoiding them. Should I design a phone and sell at at a very good prize, would me. amazing for the businezs. But if it explodes as I did aomething wrong, I would lose more money and phame as well. Just ask Samsung, so yes doung something properly is important.

Halep has been told toplay like this against Serena: try to return the 1st and 2nd ball from Serena, and the 3rd will not come back. Halep made the fewest errors in a GS final:3.


Van Persie Says:

Sorry for the typos. You will understand, I hope.


Van Persie Says:

SG1,

Well, Nole did not win with luck 3 sets, let’s get serius 🙂


Dave Says:

I just want to point out one thing for people that are saying that Djokovic was outplayed this match. I have a bit of a different spin on things. Set 2 when Djokovic tanked, Federer won 14 more points. There are your 14 more points. Actually in the first set according to points won, Djokovic won 5 more points than Federer did. So because he won the tie break 7-5, that means Djokovic had won 3 more points than Federer going into the breaker. So actually Djokovic didn’t get outplayed in the first set. If you combine the 3rd and the 5th sets, they actually won the exact same amount of points. So it could have gone either way. I’m not saying Djokovic wasn’t outplayed at times in this match. But it wasn’t as lopsided with this points thing as people think.


skeezer Says:

SG1,
Respect your post as it comes form an objective poster and fan. And, it is spot on. I actually stopped watching after he wasted those two match points. Knew that was the end. Some say Novaks FH passing shot was the difference, not true. Feds approach shot sucked, was not deep enough by a mile and let Novak set early enough for the pass.
I agree about his serving chances. Dude, he is on grass, his best serving service, and you have TWO chances to get the match over. should have at least got a easy next ball if he couldn’t serve an ace. Ugh.
@Milos,
Feds “luck” if you want to call it was at two match points that would have ended the match, not just a break or during anytime otherwise.


Van Persie Says:

Czarlazar,

Very nice perspective from your side, a chilling one. I think the same, for now I enjoy this huge win. Am also not obsessed with reaching 20. For me, he’s the GOAT already and Fedfans would consider Fwd the GOAT, even if Nole had 30 slams. Same with Rafans with theyr fave. And each fanbase can decide on theyr own criteria.


Dave Says:

And I’m not trying to be pessimistic or anything. But for the few that feel there might have been something wrong with Djokovic,I totally agree. I have never seen him like that in a match. He was barely hanging on at times. I do actually think there might be an injury. I’m not saying it’s major. But he wasn’t 100%. This takes nothing away from Federer either. If it was Federer in the same situation, I would say the same thing if it looked like there was something defintely wrong. And when I say he was barely hanging on at times, this didn’t feel like the time against Murray in the Australian Open finals in the 3rd set when they were tied a set all and I think Murray was up a break. When Murray got angry and said: You always do this, and Djokovic looked like he could barely stand up. This felt different than that time and other times. I really thought the match was over in the 3rd set. I really did.I still can’t believe he hung on to win this match. Amazing


chofer Says:

From a non partison POV, in NO way this match surpasses the 08 Wimby final.

The fact tha Nole won it keeps me in awe and scratching my head. ALL the stats were against him. I say he might be not be the most thrilling player to watch of his generation but hge surely is the most clutch one.

Still, Federer played the important points better in his match with Nadal. It was nadal that won it. It was Roger that lost it this time around. I know this sounds cruel but that’s the way it is. This one will hurt more than the 08 final. Much more.


Czarlazar Says:

VP: regarding your comment that “Fedfans would consider Fed the GOAT, even if Nole had 30 slams.” That’s absolutely true, and btw, Nole would have 30 Slams today had he had a five year “Weak Era” period of dominance like Federer had from 2003 to 2008. Must have been agony to mentally prepare for GS finals against Philippoussis, Roddick, Hewitt, Safin, Baghdatis and Fernando Gonzalez — and then prevail against all odds! LOL! All Djokovic had to do was get by Fed, Nadal and Murray over and over again, which obviously pales by comparison .


Woodpecker Says:

Novak somehow survived, don’t understand how he did it, it was a miracle though. Being his fan, I suffered during all 5 hours together with him. Another thing, being anti-Federer person, I was AMAZED how F managed to serve THAT good through all 5 hours of the match. Credit to him, he played better, and even more credit – he did it at the age of 38 and after one exhausting match against Nadal. Loved Novak’s behaviour after the last point, hope he’ll keep having this level of composure also in the future. Poor kids, both Novak’s and Roger’s, they had to watch something they definitely couldn’t understand and appreciate in the right way. Wonder why proud parents do not consider their children’s young age when deciding to put them though this kind of torture.


fred stone Says:

” All Djokovic had to do was get by Fed, Nadal and Murray over and over again…”

08 AO Tsonga
18 Wimby Anderson
18 US del Potro

19% of Grand Slam victories came against these chumps, right?
BTW Fed’s opponents were not qualifiers or players with no victories/titles on tour, same as Djoker.
Your blind bias has clouded your thinking.


Daniel Says:

At one point (French 2015) Djoko was 8-8 in Slam finals, now he is 16-9 withe the sole loss coming to the same player who beat him in Rg 2015. Wawrinka USO 16.

And since Wawrinka most likelly won’t ever reach another Slam final, the questiuon remains: who can beat Djoko in a Slam final again? Myabe Nadal in RG and that is about it.

Also after Ao 2018 the Slam total was 20 / 16 / 12. 6 Slams went by, Federer won none, Djoko 4 and Nadal 2. Its like Djoko is in a path only going up in catching up.

We know tennis is a what have you done for me lately sport and it can turn any time (after Rg 2016 we all know what happened), but if Djoko keeps this pace, he can surpass Nadal next year, surpass Fed´s #1 records next year and who knows what his limit will be.

Agree, he won Wimbledon more on sheer will and an exclelent draw where he wasn´t m,entally testeed till the final. Maybe the victory over Nadal took something out of Federer right for those important points and Djoko was able to stay in for 5 years preciselly because he was “mentally rested” througout the tournament.

If he wins USO this year, having won 5 of the last 6 Slams, I think there is a 70% chance he catches Federer in #1 records and Slams.

But as I said, things can change pretty quick.
– Nadal wins USO and the GOAT debate will be all about him and an RG 2020 victory for #20
– Fed wins USO and he reaches 21 and the taling will be all about him again.
– A youg won wins USO and Djoko will be “on hold” and this new champion hyped as the next big thing.

We are in cautions territory not, but there is a sense in the air we are pretty close to the finish line and third act big finale!


RZ Says:

@Dave – in terms of the match stats (and I’m being a bit redundant here), the key was the unforced errors. Fed made 11 UEs during the 3 tiebreaks. Cut that number in half and he could have won the match because he might have won one of those tiebreaks. But as you point out, there is always more behind the numbers. I complained yesterday that Fed made 3 dumb errors early in the final tiebreak, but most likely it was less a case of UEs (which are somewhat subjective by definition anyway) and more along the lines of “forced errors” because Djokovic was forcing him to go big and Fed missed.


skeezer Says:

Dave,
Not to be otherly pessimistic, But for the few that feel there might have been something wrong with Fed, I totally agree. He had a mental issue, it was obvious, as he should have easily won the match with 2 MP on his racket. ;)


Czarlazar Says:

Fred Stone’s not impressed with three of Nole’s GS titles, specifically:

08 AO Tsonga (TSONGA SWEPT NADAL IN THE SEMIS, 2,3 AND 2, SO HIS PLACE IN THE FINAL WAS WELL EARNED. FOR HIS PART, DJOKOVIC ALSO WON HIS SEMI 3-0, AGAINST FEDERER HIMSELF)
18 Wimby Anderson (ANDERSON BEAT FEDERER IN THE QUARTERS, WHILE DJOKOVIC — THE 12TH SEED — BEAT NADAL IN THE SEMIS. SOUNDS WELL DESERVED TO ME)
18 US del Potro (DJOKOVIC HAD AN EASY DRAW THE FIRST FOUR ROUNDS BUT WOULD HAVE FACED FED IN THE QUARTERS HAD ROGER NOT BEEN UPSET BY MILLMAN. AS FOR DEL POTRO, WHO YOU CALL A “CHUMP,” HE’S ONE OF THE BEST PLAYERS OF THE LAST DECADE, WHO BEAT FED IN THE 2009 US OPEN AS A 20 YEAR OLD. HAD IT NOT BEEN FOR INJURIES, DEL POTRO MAY HAVE DISPLACED MURRAY OR STAN AS ONE OF THE TOP FIVE OF THIS STRONG ERA)

Fred closes by lashing out: “Your blind bias has clouded your thinking.” TURNS OUT MY REASONING WAS CLEAR AND FACTUAL, BUT YOUR REBUTTAL WAS A FAIL, SO SHARPEN YOUR PENCILS AND TRY AGAIN, FRED.


Wog Boy Says:

“08 AO Tsonga
18 Wimby Anderson
18 US del Potro”

08 Goatkovic beat 37 years old in SF
18 Goatkovic beat Rafa in SF

If you don’t know how to spell “mental midget” then check the name of the person that played 20 finals against Goatkovic and lost 16 of them, fake SIXTEEN!
As of today


Wog Boy Says:

^^
lost 14 of them, faken FOURTEEN.

As of two days ago it’s 26:22 h2h in favor of Goatkovic, it hurts to be Chokerer fan these days, doesn’t it?


Wog Boy Says:

VP,
Fifth it is, just to work out how to find you, where you will be staying. In a two days times I will be in Russia.


Wog Boy Says:

Czarlazar,
You beat me to the punch, I don’t mind it;)


Wog Boy Says:

Last but not least, Chokerer played 20+ more GSs than Nole and he is only 4 (FOUR) ahead of him, think about that?!


Wog Boy Says:

VP,
Is there any chance we can move it one day forward, 4th?


Van Persie Says:

WB,

4th is ok, we will stay in touch then. :)
Have not decided yet where I will stay, I have chosen only the date.


Wog Boy Says:

VP,
👍


chrisford1 Says:

Is Fred (Flint)Stone a troll or just someone that was dropped on his head as a baby, perhaps a few times.
Who does Fred think Djokovic had to go through in the semis of the 2008 Australian Open , 2018 Wimbledon. and 2018 US Open?? Why were Jo Tsonga, Kevin Anderson, and JMDP in the Final? Because they upset Rafa or Fed in the other half of the Draw.


FedExpress Says:

Excited to see how Fed responds after this.

If he doesnt let this devastating loss ruin his confidece he will have chance at USO 19, AO 20 and Wim 20. But the question is how much does he have left in the tank?


fred stone Says:

Let me explain, again.
Czarlazar gloatingly mocks Fed’s opponents as “lesser” tennis players in slam finals as compared to Djoker who had to beat “only” Fed, Nadal and Murray.
The error of Czarlazar’s claim was that Djoker “ONLY” faced big four opponents in slam finals.
Anyone outside the top four as an opponent was a “chump” or a nobody according to Czarlazar.
He/she left out the three players I mentioned who must be nobodies as per their “logic”.
That was my point…” …these chumps, right?”
According to Czarlazar “anyone” outside the big four is a cheap opponent because that’s who Fed faced on occasion.
That comment was just a Fed hater venting.

Fed’s opponents earned their way to slam finals, same as Djoker’s.
I was “not” trashing the 3 non-big-four players Djoker faced, Czarlazar was, by inference/omission.

chrisford1
Please reread czarlazar’s putdown of Fed’s opponents, which was very unfair and disrespectful.

And ,gee, thanks for being so civil.


Giles Says:

https://twitter.com/97inthe5th/status/1151101482785300481?s=21
Come on you losers now is your chance, maybe…… lol


Truth Says:

Speaking of venting. Roddick, the worst returner with 21% of return points won, must be proud. He mocks the GOAT Schmovak Schmockovic.
Poor cowardly Fed fans lose, even when they’re not playing tennis.

Novak fans aren’t the ones flooding the votes for Novak to win Wimbledon and crowding the scoring thread with god worshipping posts. 🤣🤣🤣🥀


SG1 Says:

SG1,

Well, Nole did not win with luck 3 sets, let’s get serius 🙂

——————–

I didn’t say Novak was outright lucky to win the match. I stated that he fully deserved the win. Please re-read my post.

I only said that with Federer serving at 9-8, 40:15, the fate of the match was no longer fully in Novak’s hands. At that point, he needed a little help from Federer to escape and Federer obliged.


SG1 Says:

In men’s tennis in particular, the man holding the ball has a decided advantage over the one returning. I’d be interested in knowing how often the Big 3 lose a service game from 40:15 up. I’m willing to bet it doesn’t happen very often. The fact that it happened when it did is still kind of shocking.


SG1 Says:

Both players deserve a ton of credit for managing the roller coaster of emotions. There isn’t a single good reason for anyone to bash Federer or Novak. This match showed that there’s very little that separates them. If you’re going to bash either one because you’re a fan of the other then you’re only diminishing your own guy’s achievements.

These guys are both are on tennis’ Mt. Rushmore along with that Spanish guy with 12 FO’s and 6 other slams.


SG1 Says:

Both players have made amazing strides given that they’re not in their 20’s anymore. Novak has overcome some pretty serious injuries as has Federer. Federer has adjusted his game and added variety as has Novak.

Federer has found a way to reverse some of his pain against Nadal by winning 6 or their last 7 meetings. He still has a losing record against Rafa but its not nearly as lopsided as it once was.

Novak had that period about 6 or 7 years ago when he lost a bunch of slam finals. Now, he’s the most mentally tough guy on tour (off the red clay).


Wog Boy Says:

“ I’d be interested in knowing how often the Big 3 lose a service game from 40:15 up. I’m willing to bet it doesn’t happen very often.”

Well, Nole did it 3 times to 37 years old in GSs and all 3 times he was serving for the match and lost the match(es), is that often enough.
Obviously there is something that makes him uncomfortable when serving and that is not called luck, it’s the fear when facing best returner ever.


chrisford1 Says:

Apologies Fred Stone. I was trying to be funny, but it could appear mean to you.
I think Czarlazar, who BTW put up some other fine posts I agree with strongly with, and enjoy his insight – conveyed a meta truth that Djokovic never had a weak era, he had to go through the other Big 4, (with Stan and Delpo as big a challenge at times when they were in good health and zoning). And the obvious broad conclusion – to win anything, Djokovic had to go through them. Saying it was only Finals as you did implies that beating the other guys in semis, QFs, a 4th Rounder with Stan at the Australian Open doesn’t count.
There is a reason why the most played rivalries are Djokovic vs. Rafa, Fed, and Andy Murray (with FEDAL in 3rd) – he had to go through one or two Big 4 players every tournament if he ended up winning.
There is a reason why Djokovic has a record that probably will never be broken. 4 years stuck as the #3 player. In 2007-2010. He typically had Rafa and Fed to go through, sometimes if he was “lucky” Andy might snipe one of FEDAL in an upset in the other half the draw , so he’d get Andy instead of both Rafa and Fed. FEDAL were better players than Novak and consistent during those years.

I agree with Czarlazar that fans will stick by their guy and Djoko winning 30 Slams won’t affect the more rabid Fed and Rafa fans from moving the goalposts and adding GOAT must be aesthetically pleasing, the most popular with fans, be fluent in either Spanish or German.
But people looking in 20 years from now will be more objective. They will count in somehow H2Hs. They will factor in how loved they were. Who had the best record outside the Slams. Best record at the 4 “big” tournaments. Who was the most balanced player in terms of wins on surfaces, indoors and outdoors.) Who was the smartest, funniest, best-looking (to me, Rafa in his sleeveless pirate costume days) By what version of ELO exists 20 years out. By algorithms fans can plug stats into. How many Edberg/Federer awards they got. By philanthropy. Who has the best autobiography. What other players both active and long retired think of each Big 4 player 20 years from now


FedExpress Says:

Wogboy, wtf are you talking about? If you dont know the dont comment. Spreading false facts.

At the USO 2010 Nole defended the MPs on his serve.


Daniel Says:

2010 USO semi final both MPs Federes had were when 5-4 up on Djokovic’s serve.

In 2011 USO semis, Fed indeed had 2 MPs on his won serve, serving 5-3 40-15 up.

And now again in Wimbledon. So this is the second time Djokovic wins a MP saving MP’s on Fed’s serve. Nadal never did it, only saved MP’s in Rome 2006 on his serve as well.

Indeed SG1, the rate of Big 3 winning 40-15 games outside clay, must be around 90% or higher. But closing out matches and sets have extra pressure and we’ve seen them many times fail to do so.


fred stone Says:

Pretty crude and mean comment, could be funny in another context, but OK, apology accepted.

The original czarlazar comment was specifically aimed at finals; semi-finals were never mentioned, so my reply never mentioned them either.
Being misunderstood around here is a common occurrence.
Hey, if my little comment confuses or perplexes you, quote (“….”) the part you are so offended with.
I may use a phrase or slangish idea, so ask first, shoot later.
You’re welcome.


Daniel Says:

I don’t think this “Fed is GOAT even with Djoko with 30 slams” bs will hold true, bar a few very xiita fans.

Federer already is the most aesthetically tennis player to have ever picked a racquet, for quite some time. He also has the longevity records and consecutive streaks in Slams, finals, semis etc… that may not ever be beaten.

But Djoko has a body of work (still in progress that has the potential to be undeniable GOAT).

*What he still can achieve in short time:
– This year (as its almost sure with 2 Slams) he can equal Sampras 6 year end #1 record, co-leader above Federer
– By mid next year he can surpass Federer total weeks as #1 above 310, being sole leader.
– By the end of next year he can have 20 or 21 Slams (or a 2nd career Slam wiht RG 2020 that will be unprecedent).
– He can win another WTF this year and be co-leader along Federer, 2 more and he will be sole leader in 2020 or 2021.
– He can also pass the 100 titles mark sometime in 2022, maybe even target the 109 (connors and Federer current 102 very likelçly to increase) depending on his longevity.
– He can win Olympic gold next year on HC
– End this year as leader with total Masters as he is just 1 shy of Nadal and has better odds of winnign all 4 remaining than Nadal has

*What he already has:
– He already has the HxH against both Fedal (hard to see that change)
– He alreayd has the Masters sweap (something Fedal won’t achieve)
– He already havs Djoko Slams, winning for in a row (something Fedal won’t achieve)
– He has a better rate of winning Slams in last years than Fedal and is 1 year younger than Nadal and favorite and 2nd favorite (RG) for evey Slams he plays

Meaning that if he at least equals Federer’s total Slams (which is the most important stat), plus the #1 rankings stats that will soon follow, He doesn’t need to win everyhting I highlighted.

But imagine if he indeed does all of that, what will be left to argue?!


Daniel Says:

But, Federer’s body of work is also undergoing:

A Cincy / USO win plus Basel and WTF (all tourneys he will be favorite or co-favorite to win) and he may end year as #1, increase his total weeks, tie Sampras 6th Year End #1, incresase his major tally to 21, almost sure to surpass Connors 109 titles (that will end him the year with 106) and further establihs himslef as GOAT.

A USO win in 7 weeks time, quickly recovering from this Wimbledon loss will be huge.

Yeah, Djoko may still catch him in the end, but with this potential strong year will be that mnuch harder. Federer is still in great form, he has reached 5 consecutive finals of the last non clay tourneys he played (Dubay / IW / Miami / Halle / Wimby) and un less that final crushed him, there is little to thing he will decrease his level out of knowhere in a fast HC part of the season and indoors.

Some stats Federer won’t change, like the 2 HxH with Nadal and Djoko, he may even ie the Djoko one. Nor will he end with most Masters or win an Olympic singles gold (maybe). But these are all “secondary” stats to what he alreayd has and the most important ones.

There is still a lot to be achieved by the Big 3


Daniel Says:

Actually, rectifying!

If Djoko with 4 less slams and 50 less weeks as #1, and there are a lot of his fans saying his GOAT already, Fed will have the same luxury, so Djoko will need to win 24 Slams and 360 weeks as #1! 😜


FedExpress Says:

One bloody ace Daniel just like in RG 2011 and we would have a whole new debate.

Saw the CPs again. Shouldnt have approached on the 2nd CP. And at Deuce onwards he panicked.


Van Persie Says:

Daniel,

No negociation here. Nole is GOAT for Nole fans…. well, maybe if Fed wins 3 more GS, but beating Nole in on finals or semis, we might reconsider 😂


Daniel Says:

Indeed FE, also another thing that was bothering me since Nadal match is that he was trying to “wrong foot” them many times when he had a short ball, instaead of going open court, possibly afraid of on the run passing shots. That FH on MP was a classic case, going for BH was safer, instead he went to Djoko’s FH not deep enough and he was able to execute (all merit to him) a perfect passing shot with spin.


Wog Boy Says:

FE,
Is somebody shaking your cage?

Calm down, it’s not the end of the world, I know he choked, but it’ll be another final…and another loss, 15th;)


Dave Says:

Skeezer,

You are right about the mental thing for Federer. I watched the whole match yesterday on youtube and have a different outlook now. Djokovic wasn’t injured. He just wasn’t at his best and had to deal with that and deal with the crowd. Also, Federer did a great job in exposing how poorly Djokovic was returning on the forehand side especially. I actually think Djokovic hit his backhand down the line well for the most part. I also think Federer has found something against Djokovic now. Even though he has lost 5 in a row. The last 2 matches Federer has slowballed Djokovic at times like Simon has done as well. The difference is that Federer has more power to explode with a really hard groundstroke at any time during the rally and catch Djokovic off guard. Federer really needs to break this streak and get a win for his belief and confidence when facing Djokovic. I have to say something as well that I was happy about and credited Federer with. He was really graceful and not sour grapes at all during the press conference. He was respectful. He reacted so much better than the 2011 US Open after losing to DJokovic. So I have to say I was super impressed with that. Especially because it was a harder loss this time. Also, I want your opinion on something. I seem to have a different opinion than others on this. And Pat Cash and another former pro said that This loss is really going to hurt Federer. I actually feel that even though Federer says he will be fine, I don’t think he is just going to bounce back into peak form for awhile. I think this is going to take time. I’m curious to know your thoughts on this.


Madmax Says:

Wogboy talks about errors and then writes Wigboy!
Giles and Wogboy such losers on this site. Such disrespectful pranksters, fakers — who crawl out to mock others showing their spite. Firstly where were you hey — tough guys? No comments during a Novak match. Just scaredy cats who come out to gloat never getting involved in the passion of a high intensity match because the nerves are too frayed and then write incendiary posts to try and degrade and distract from a legendary match. One for the ages. So pathetic. FedEx you were right to pull up WG on his discrimination. Pretends to support Novak when he wins yet crucifies Fed and defames his name when he loses. Really tough guys? Makes me laugh.
Wow. What a guy. What a bully.Then pipsqueak Giles puffs up his chest and pretends to be able to form a sentence that remotely shows his lack of tennis knowledge.

God guys is this your mission in life? You can’t even enjoy the titanics of this match. For the record Novak said in his press conference it was the most mentally challenging match he had ever played. Rafa was the more physical opponent but Federer was more intellectually challenging. But then I realised both of you wouldn’t understand the way in which Novak couldn’t read Fed’s serve or couldn’t appreciate what an amazing athlete you would have to be in order to beat Federer let alone Novak.

I fully realise how entirely warped your mindset is. How you thwart and ridicule Federer at every opportunity you get. You will simply never get it because your mind doesn’t understand an intellectual approach. Its not capable of fully understanding the richness and beauty Federer brings to every match. Jealousy kills.

FedEx, I’m pretty sure Federer will return healthy..mentally healthy. There’s nothing to suggest otherwise. He’s played at an incredibly high level throughout the year and he is still in with chances for the remainder of the season. 2020 is a new year a new schedule. We wait.


Wog Boy Says:

^^^
Somebody is shaking your cage too?!


skeezer Says:

FE,
re; 4:08 post…that’s what I said! ;)

Dave,
Kinda feel the same. He is 37, not 27. Felt as though if this happened in his prime years, being that he still has a lot of tennis years left, he would get over it and actually win some more matches against Novak. But time waits for no one and his time could come at ANY time.
I appreciated your objectivity even though you are a Novak fan and want to talk tennis rather than country and culture of it all, as others here clearly carry Djokers unceremonial “chip on da shoulder”. and have a jealousy factor form wasssy back ;)


Dave Says:

Skeezer,

I honestly really didn’t even know that Federer had this kind of tennis in him. It caught me totally by surprise. i picked Nadal in 4 sets. Federer came through. I honestly thought Federer would lose to Djokovic in 4 sets, maybe even a slight chance at 3. I never ever thought Federer would have had 2 match points on his serve. So my whole opinion on Federer’s chances to win has been thrown out the window after these last 2 matches. I won’t ever pick Nadal over Federer again in non clay matches. And I won’t just assume that Djokovic will beat Federer in any match ever again. And this is the strange part for me. I was actually disappointed in Djokovic’s performance, even though he won. It was mind boggling that he couldn’t even manufacture a break point until late in the 4th set. Actually, I was so surprised how many love 15 games Djokovic had on the Federer serve and couldn’t do a thing with. Everytime Djokovic had that look in his eye like he was going to pounce, Federer came up with something amazing. Federer just didn’t allow Djokovic to gain any momentum. It was the first time at a major against Federer in a long time that Djokovic wasn’t able to really play on his terms and just had to hang in there. So after this match, it shows me how vulnerable Djokovic can be even in a grandslam match where he just couldn’t tap into peak mode, which in this case had definitely something to do with how Federer played. After Cincinnati last year, I didn’t think Federer was ever going to be able to put himself in a position to beat Djokovic again anywhere. So this match really shocked me in a lot of ways.


Czarlazar Says:

Though I realize the “Weak Era” references arouse passion in Federer fans, I didn’t quite expect Fred “manos de piedra” Stone to come out fists blazing like Roberto Duran in his prime. I won’t recycle the cast of tier 2 rivals from said Era, as we all know their names or can look them up on Wikipedia. The fairest way to evaluate it is Fed won 12 GS titles from 2003 to 2007, the heart of the Weak Era, which at the tail end saw the beginning of resistance from Nadal (Wimby finalist in 2006 & 2007, French champ from ’05 to ’07) and Nole (2007 US Open finalist) to King Roger’s reign.
However, from 2008 to last Sunday’s Wimbledon final — heart of the Strong Era, which is ongoing — Fed has won just 8 Slams, three of which (AO 2017/2018 and Wimby 2017) he snagged while Djokovic was in crisis, physically and mentally. Novak has 16 majors during the Strong Era, Nadal 15 and Murray/Wawrinka have 3 each. I won’t insult Fed with the age card, as he proved he can hold his own against anyone in the world at almost 38. Furthermore, he’s been virtually injury free most of his career, thanks to good luck and commitment to physical conditioning, and that’s why he’s still playing and winning.
As great as Federer has been in a magnificent career, he’s not quite as good as his two main professional rivals the past 11 years. And that’s not an opinion but the cold, clinical stats, which make our opinions and emotions completely irrelevant.


Dio Says:

^^^ @Dave…

I totally agree. I also picked Novak to win in 4 sets and was a bit disappointed with the way the final went since Novak didn’t dominate as I thought he would. Credit to Federer who played surprisingly exceptionally well IMO. His serving was just phenomenal for the most part. Thought it was over when Roger had those two MP’s. The match had my heart racing. So much pressure. I couldn’t eat until much later. Was relieved to see Djokovic come through at the end.


Dave Says:

A Statistic I just found out about which is impressive. Djokovic had Zero unforced errors in all 3 tie-breaks. Zero. He refused to miss and was locked in for the tie-breaks.


Wog Boy Says:

It’s well known that Novak is most frustrated and struggles when he cannot read opponents serve and that’s excatly what happened. By doing that Nole’s strongest and best part of the game is taken from him.
It’s obviously they studied thoroughly Nole’s game, I would say Ljubicic, and came out with different serving patterns, Nole couldn’t read his serve until well into 4th set and it wasn’t about aces, 25 aces in basically six set match is nothing, Nick served 25-26 in two sets in Acapulco when beat Nole. It was placement and off/on pace.
Nole tanked two sets and was waiting for his chance in TB, where the most important thing is to stay positive and hold your serve and hope that opponent won’t be serving ace after ace. That’s cold mental strength and not luck, to beat third best player of this era in the three TB in GS final is a huge mental challenge and Nole proved once agai whay he is the best player of his era.


Wog Boy Says:

@Dave,
Haven’t seen your post nor knew about your statistic, but your post proves excatly what I said, it was abou 37 years old serve, and while you can afford to lose point here and there during one game you can’t afford to do that in TB, Nole knew that and played three perfect TB, just look at TB results, just look at them, all finished in 7 points without giving a sniff of chance to win them.


Van Persie Says:

Dave,

No doubt, Federer speculated Nole’s weaknesses very good in this final, still, I am not yet sure, Nole was only caught by surprise here…. I still cannot forget how bad he did serve, compared to other big matches in the last years.
The match was very thrilling, indeed, I still think the Wimbledon final from 2015 is above this one, as quality, only it was not an epic.
If Fed can think of scenarios, where Fed could have hit an ace at MP, I can also speculate, that this final would have not been an epic, had Nole served better.

Just had a cup of coffee with one of my colleagues, hardcore fan of Federer, we avoided to talk about it until today, as I saw he was in pain because of this loss, and he admitted: Fed did not deserve to win this match, when he was not able to convert one of the opportunities.
Fed had everything: the serve percentage, the crowds supporting him….really no excuse for this loss


Van Persie Says:

as strange as it would sound for many Federer fans, Nole won this match partly with is name, same as Fed does it many times, against player he dominates


Michael Says:

What would be more calamitous and profoundly discomfiting for Roger is his inability to take good advantage of Novak’s dip in form. One would have expected Roger to seize the occasion and laugh his way all to the bank. But that was not to be as Novak confiscated the clutch moments to deny Roger his rightful due. Actually, Roger if he was a tad lucky could have won in straight sets. The turning point of the match came not in those lost Championship points, but the set point in the third set which Roger failed to capitalise with an unforced error and that proved to be his nemisis in the end. This loss would hurt Roger more than what he wish to conceal at a superficial level. This will deny him sleep for several days and nights.To recover, recoup and resurrect after this nightmare will be a tall ask.


FedExpress Says:

The first TB was the killer. Led 5-3.

And that FH miss on BP. Plus Fed was 0-30 up on Noles serve when he led 5-4.

As soon as he got the chance to be ahead in the match
he got tight


Giles Says:

Skeezer. Very moving story.


Michael Says:

So many missed opportunities, but then we can contrive nothing else to describe this shattering defeat except quote the doctrine of Fatalism. Somehow on those crucial moments in the match, Roger always blinked to make life easy for Novak. After this morale shattering loss, I can never conceive a situation of Roger besting Novak in future. If it cannot happen at the manicured Green lawns, where else it would fructify ?


Van Persie Says:

Michael,

Who knows?, I hope it will never happen :), but it does not work like that. I am sure Fed will fight every time he faces Nole.

Daniel wanted a Djoko-WAwa semifinal. Wawa was never a power on grass, but maybe he would have beaten this Nole (which I repeat, was not at his best)? Wawa is a bit in Nole’s head when it is about GS finals, and had Wawa prevailed, then Wawa would had no chance against Fed most likely. Wawa would not have beaten Fed on grass for sure. Wawa is totally intimidated by Fed…
Oh, boy, these matchups :)


Giles Says:

^^ Sorry wrong tweet


Van Persie Says:

Giles,

Haha, I liked the 1st tweet, about Rafa “cheering” for Nole ;)

Regarding the 2nd tweet, a funny one :)

Well, it is hard to be very nice after how the crowds behaved.
I was exhausted from my couch, while hearing them, honestly, so that I appreciated Nole’s attitude, like: “Take this, you Motherf*ckers!”


Van Persie Says:

Before Nole saved the 1st MP, some Fed fans wagged the finger, I saw it on replay, some advised Fed to behave like at the RG 2011 :) Well they got a finger from Nole. He was classy enough not to use the middle one :)


fred stone Says:

Still floating the weak era, czarlar?
No such thing. It’s called men’s professional tennis for a reason.
If you can’t accept that, there’s no use conversing with you.
The conventional measure of greatness is simply this:
20-18-16.

And stop thinking you can get away with utilizing your bully pulpit without being challenged.
That doesn’t work around here.

Signed,
Hands of stone


fred stone Says:

czarlar = you know who ;)


GP Says:

Some very good commentary here and I am enjoying the quality of discourse, except for one thing: I wish people would stop all this adulation about Fed’s age without mentioning PEDs in the same sentence. Come on people, let’s think deeply here. He spanked Nadal like a young pup in that semi – and in the final, he was all over the Djoker like a cheap suit – and that is not easy to do. He didn’t lose that final because of anything physical ! His performance was nothing short of mind-blowing – so, what gives …… ?

Let’s get real: It is physiologically impossible to play at that level he displayed on Sunday at his current age, without “assistance”. And for 5 sets no less ! And he’s been doing it for the last 6 to 8 months ! The tennis IQ is all his. The clever shot selection is all his. The aesthetic beauty of the ground strokes is all his. But the STAMINA to go through the draw, the SPEED with which he’s running down balls, and the ENERGY expended throughout a gruelling 5-setter: well I think those 3 three things are not entirely his. I’d argue that he got ‘assistance’ with those 3 things.
Natural aging in the human body simply does not allow for this type of performance at the current stage of his athletic career. As we age, mitachondrial energy output declines, quality & speed of sensory signals along nerve pathways declines, cell sensescence sets in, inflammation increases and the list goes on and on and on… This is Grade 11 Biology – and it is undeniable.

But if you are not scientifcally minded, let’s use commonsense. How many other athletes do we see CONSISTENTLY dominating their rivals in other non-team sports at that age? I am hard pressed to think of any: so why would it be the case with him? (please don’t bring up Golf – it is not a sport ! ) Michael Jordan: retired at 33. Usain Bolt: retired at 31. You think these people retired because they got tired of the million dollar payouts and endless celebrity? No. They retired because they were slowing down, and could not consistently dominate like they used to. Maybe they could have gotten “assistance” but the anti-doping protocols in their sports are way more stringent than on the ATP tour.

5,4,3,2,1…….. I am just counting down until the insults and hate start pouring in, but in case you think I am picking on Fed – not so ! Basic biology and commonsense suggest ALL of THEM are juicing to some extent, and I am willing to overlook it and forget about it (just like the ATP does), except that the media and people who ought to know better won’t let up with this 38 year old nonsense. Biology is biology – period ! Human physiology is what it is – period ! So please, let’s give at rest……….


Wog Boy Says:

“The conventional measure of greatness is simply this:
20-18-16.”

Only brainwashed cult members, mentally challenged people or people whose IQ is not bigger than their shoe size can say that 37 years old is better player than. We are not talking who is most successful player, that well known, but who is better player between two of them, one on one. Every single result and statistics points Nole way:

26 : 22 h2h
——————
10 : 6 GS matches

4 : 1 GS finals

14 : 6 all finals

3 : 2 WTFs

11 : 9 Masters

2 : 4. ATP 500

0 : 1 DC

Since you love numbers I spaced them, as you can see the only advantage in their rivalry 37 has in ATP 500 and one in DC when he wonted tu bully youn Nole calling him openly in interview “he is a joke” well that young kid grep up in most complete player in the history, best player of his era and certanly better player than 37 years old.


Wog Boy Says:

There are some interestingly stats in this article that points out who is the weakest link, mentality, out of big 4.

For example, 37 years old lost 22 matches after having match points, Rafa 5, Nole 3.

He lost all 9 GS matches where he was 1:2.

Even worst, his record in the finals matches decided after TB is 1:9, that one victory was against Ljubicic in Rotterdam 2005 final:

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www.telegraf.rs/amp/sport/wimbledon/3083153-surova-statistika-koja-otkriva-kako-federer-nema-sampionske-nerve-da-izdrzi-pritisak

Sorry for spacing sentences, but it’s obvious some posters need it spaced;)


Giles Says:

I Joker still using the EGG?


Wog Boy Says:

@GP,
Some of us were saying that since his 2017 AO come back after 6 months lay off due to an “injury” and almost 5 years without GS title. Suddenly he was running faster, hitting harde, lasting longer (don’t about Mirka’s experience). Person with medoicre 5 set record suddenly was playing 5th set like it is 1st set, though I think that last year he made a brake in juicing (results showing it) but this year he is on double dose. Novartis is working overtime.
Obviously, agree with your post, very much so.


Czarlazar Says:

WB: directing stats/facts at entranced cult members is pointless because their idol is the best ever and that is that. So let’s pretend tennis-x has private messaging and I’ll direct something to you and other open-minded people who actually believe the earth is round: Novak won his second GS title at AO in January 2011 (beating Roger 3-0 in the semis) and became world # 1 that summer for the first time. Since 2011, he’s won 15 Grand Slams, 4 Tour Finals, more Masters1000 titles than anyone else and has the best winning percentage of anyone. Compare that to Nadal (9 GS and 0 TF) and Fed (4 GS and 1 TF). Then throw in the HTH since 2011 against Fed (21-9) and Nadal (21-10).
Conclusion: Novak Djokovic has faced the stiffest competition in tennis history from day 1 of his professional career and has not only prevailed but dominated the second and third best players of all time. That clearly and uncontroversially equals “GOAT”, but let’s keep that between us so as not to ruffle any more feathers.


Wog Boy Says:

Czarlazar,
I received private message, will not tell anyone.
Over


Van Persie Says:

WB,

nice stats. :)
Question:just saw 4 August got complicated. Not possible for my husband. Next weekend, Saturday would be fine? If not, 10 or 11 August?


Van Persie Says:

TX staff or Sean,

Would you please be so kind to send my email adress to WB, so that we do not bother you with this anymore?

Many thanks in advance.


Truth Says:

Novak didn’t depend on aces or ball bashing to escape & please the crowd. Fed can’t survive, even with aces.
Nadal keeps pounding everything, loses options and gets exhausted.

Novak had 4-2, a bunch of deuces and break points but let Fed escape, so let’s not ignore all that to make Fed look the best & prettiest of all time.
The ex-players, media & you Fed fans can’t predict & label Novak, so his wins are so much more satisfying to him!
When he reaches tiebreaks & gets 2 match points, he wins with no need for aces!
The more junior trick shots, the better! He’s not receiving ESPY awards but hey, who needs ESPN, Brad Gilbert, Cahill, Pat/John McEnroe, Cliff Drsydale, etc.


Wog Boy Says:

VP,
Unfortunately, after 5/8/19 our every day is booked, driving around, visiting places and people since I am leaving week after. 27/28 July is still ok?
Worst case scenario, you are coming to Sydney in January to watch Nole in the final of the ATP cup, reason why Nole is not playing RL cup this year, you and you husband will have free accommodation, food and not too bad local guide;)


Wog Boy Says:

VP,
I’ll get back to you on this thread if they don’t send me yours or mine email to you in the next 24 hours or so, keep an eye on this thread please, we’ll work something out not to bother other posters.


Van Persie Says:

27/28 July is perfect, WB:)


Van Persie Says:

Looking forward to it, WB, we have a lot to celebrate 🙂
Will look on this tread tomorrow, if no email from you


Giles Says:

There are a couple of posters missing from this thread.
Skeezer and Madmax – you can come out of hiding now. Lol
Oh sorry forgot Fed Express.


chrisford1 Says:

Fred Stone – ” Still floating the weak era, czarlar?
No such thing. It’s called men’s professional tennis for a reason.
If you can’t accept that, there’s no use conversing with you.
The conventional measure of greatness is simply this:
20-18-16.”

====================
You don’t know much about sports if you think the quality and intensity of the competition is the same consistent level in the pro ranks year in and year out. You have strong eras and weak eras. For individual and team play.

As for the measure of greatness, conventionally, only being about Slam Count, that has been slowly being abandoned except by journalists and writers that have to keep it superficial and shallow to feed casual fans one metric. Like umber of Superbowl rings a football quarterback has (the only position worth discussing they imply), how many medals and cups the American female soccer players won with few nations having the inclination to fully fund a woman’s team that all know will be inferior to male juniors play.


Van Persie Says:

Hey WB,

No email from you, so I assume you did not get my address from TX. I will create an address and post it here for youin the next days, just for this. Ok?


fred stone Says:

“You don’t know much about sports…”
“…keep it superficial and shallow…”

No dropping on the head but you’re still crapping on me for an opinion.
Well done, champ.
And now team sports enter the fray in discussing tennis.
Sure, why not, it’s a free country.
Hey, I didn’t invent the Grand Slam metric to determine who is the best of the bunch; that’s been the measure for decades.

There are better sites to discuss tennis without the bullying and hate.
Here’s one:

http://www.tennis-prose.com/


skeezer Says:

fred stone,
Thanks for that link, excellent tennis talk!


Czarlazar Says:

“There are better sites to discuss tennis without the bullying and hate.”

Fred: describing the mild disagreements over Fed’s Weak Era GS titles as “bullying and hate” is a bit of a stretch. Chris Ford and I, among other informed commenters, don’t buy your “it’s all about the Slam count” view because it’s simplistic and weak. It’s called diversity of opinion, in this case delivered with complete civility. If mild dissent throws you into such despair, maybe this isn’t the site for you.


Wog Boy Says:

VP,
+381665020428, I got it today (you can get them here for a few dollars without ID already active) and will discard it on four weeks time, I don’t answer the calls on that one, just messagees if I know who are they from, make sure I know it’s you, so I can weed out other TX ftiends;)


fred stone Says:

“…maybe this isn’t the site for you.”

Do you own this site?

“…delivered with complete civility.”

Surely you jest.
So all the smarmy comments and piling-on fits your definition of “complete civility”?

How’s the suggestion that ‘you’ leave this site.
How about asking giles to leave with all his stfu and pos comments?
What are your standards of admission to this seemingly exclusive site, open to members only?


Van Persie Says:

Morning WB,

I just texted you and I mentioned my name. Please do not mention it here


chrisford1 Says:

What goes in one ear of Fred goes out the other. Czarlazar, myself, many others agree and disagree on the matter of the Weak Era and Slam Count being the only thing that matters.
What we get from you is passive aggressive attacks of the sort campus leftists love.
Disagreeing with you is “bullying and hate.”
Other’s words are “smarmy”, “piling on”.
Why ask Giles to leave the site because he offends you. He has been offending others here with his lame Rafa fanboy stuff for at least 3 years. But it doesn’t really bother anyone.
Next thing you are going to say you need to get to a safe place where a teacher can give you a blankie and crayons & paper. Thn send you to that safe, quiet place and bring you a warm cup of soy milk once you’re settled in.
I go back to Fred Flintstone when I think of you, because he was cast on that funny old cartoon show as a bigger infant than anyone.
Stop your whining Fred, and fetch me a Brontosaurus burger.


Wog Boy Says:

I like that site, even the blogger who wrote Wimbledon final thread agree with CF1, Czarlaza and few of us about extremely strog 2003-2007 period:
For the third Federer vs Djokovic Wimbledon final in a row, the exact same pattern played out. Both played champion caliber tennis but once again the same man emerged as the victor.

Like two race horses battling for the triple crown with the same thoroughbred prevailing each time by a NOSE, Djokovic barely survived and narrowly beat Federer again by a whisker. In 2014, Djokovic won 6-4 in the fifth. In 2015, Djokovic won 6-3 in the fifth and today Djokovic won 7-3 in the fifth set tiebreaker after a 12-12 draw.

It does not get any closer than that in tennis or any sport. You have to consider Fed vs Nole one of the greatest rivalries in the history of sport. The Serbian now leads the head to head 26-22.

Each was playing his game into the fifth set and neither seemed to have an edge but I had a gut feeling that Djokovic would win again based on the mental edge from having beaten Federer so many times in big matches in the last five years.

But it’s folly to bet against a man like Federer, especially a desperate Federer hellbent on revenge on his most frustrating antagonist.

Federer was spectacular again and struck the break and then had two match points, rather championship points on his serve at 8-7 . But he played two conservative points and lost both, missing a forehand wide and Djokovic connected on a forehand passing shot.

Later in the set, Djokovic saved a break point with another brave execution winner. His reaction may have changed the flow of the epic duel. Djokovic smiled broadly and fiercely, the only smile of the entire stressful fifth set. It was no simple smile though, it was an omen. And it spoke volumes. I interpreted this Djokovic smile to be saying, “I’m the MAN. I’m the best, now I’m going to prove it.”

They kept batting to the 12-12 tiebreaker, a new rule for Wimbledon.

Djokovic sped ahead in the breaker and won 7-3. I felt that smile changed the match and I told the crew of players I was watching it with at the Polonia Open in Packanack Lake in Wayne NJ. ‘That smile was the turning point,’ I declared.

And it was. It showed Djokovic was more confident and relaxed than Federer who had a frozen look of focus for the whole match. Federer didn’t have that extra gear of confidence to express a signal to Djokovic and the world that the match was his. It was more like Federer just kept trying and trying to find a way to win. It was Djokovic who knew he was going to win and that smile helped him make it reality.

After the win Djokovic sat down and smiled again and nodded a few times, as if saying, ‘See, I told you I’m the best. I knew it and I proved it.’

For me, this match was won by a smile. The Djokovic smile won him his fifth Wimbledon title and 16th major overall.


Van Persie Says:

Fred Stone,

Look what Mats Willander says:
I have copied/pasted some paragraphs as well

https://www.foxsports.com.au/tennis/wimbledon/tennis-legend-criticises-roger-federers-tactical-moves-in-wimbledon-final/news-story/a0ca18c0116b73aca9423dd04f41060f

“In those vital moments, Federer was paying for the years between 2004 and 2007 where he dominated his rivals so much that he never had to play an important game,” Wilander said.

“He was not tested enough then, it was too easy for him, so he did not improve tactically.

“Nowadays, however, he’s faced with guys like Rafa Nadal and Djokovic, who are the masters in these tactical matters, and he does not play the important points correctly.”

With other words, he kind of says, Roger did not have the greatest competition in 2004-2007. Not to take anything from Fed, as I am not really sure Nole would have done better then Fed btw 2004-2007. Nole is frustrated when the media and crowds are against him, but he also gets the extra motivation to prove them wrong. We will never know.


Van Persie Says:

and yes, Fed owns the GS numbers: 20, but it does not mean he is GOAT.
To be honest, I said it several times, I do not think we should have a GOAT, we can only have all time greats, or best of a decade.


Van Persie Says:

Correction: Wilander, not Willander


Wog Boy Says:

Actually, I wanted to copy paste his answer to one of the posters not a full article, here it is, fully supported CF1, Czarlazar, mine and growing numbers about how 37 years build up his GS legacy:
———-
Scoop Malinowski · July 15, 2019 at 6:52 am

Leif, Feddy was magnificent in defeat, no major finalist was ever finer. This had to be the closest margin of victory and defeat in a major final in history, the closest to a dead heat. It’s a shame Federer has lost three Wimbledon finals to the (future) greatest of all time, Federer was born at the wrong time, it’s too bad he could not play more guys like Philippoussis and Pioline in his finals. Thanks for the details on the smile, I was watching it on a laptop screen with ten others for the whole fifth set with a bunch of others at this Polonia Open tournament. All Fed fans. I won $20 by daring to bet on Djokovic early in the fifth. I knew that smile was the sign and said it and even the staunchest Fed fans didn’t protest this observation. They knew too.
———-

I love Scoop Malinowski, good man;)


Wog Boy Says:

To highlight the important part for the people with reading disabilities:

“…Federer was born at the wrong time, it’s too bad he could not play more guys like Philippoussis and Pioline in his finals…..”

When someone gives you the link that supports your view not his and shots himself in the foo


FedExpress Says:

Wog Boy, stop stating facts. Those are so flawed. In 2015 they didnt play a fifth set


chrisford1 Says:

Thing with Roger is that coaches and friends started telling him in the Weak Era that that kid Rafa was eating his lunch with the high bouncing shot to Feds one-handed backhand and he needed to take the ball early, shorten his stroke, get a slightly heavier racket to better punch and chip it back and Fed refused.
It would impact the aesthetic value of his ballerina pirouette backhand finish.
Arrogance.
He was also dismissive of Djokovic as a walking hypochondriac and Andy as a mental midget when the “big game” was contested between the two. He lost years when he should have adapted, only getting serious around 2012, had a terrible year after that
He’s more talented than either Novak or Rafa, but they are more athletic and mentally stronger.
I like Andy, his getting impossible shots, his dry humor. I like all of the Big 4. It’s been a treat to watch them and people like Gael Monfils, Delpo, David Ferrer, Berdych, Hot Sauce. And you watch them you see many foibles. “You can yell, no Rafa, don’t do it! Please, get the camera off him” because when he sits down part of his OCD ritual is to move his junk around and then sniff his fingers. Kyrgios should have respected Novak more, but all the shots he took had an element of truth to them. And another flaw with Djokovic is he keeps telling the story about how he made Wimbledon trophies as a boy, out of foil from the kitchen and bits and pieces from his room. A really charming story the 1st 25 times he told it. Now it is just Djokobot boilerplate.
I’m happy to watch them, especially play against one another.
Wimbledon’s over, the impact on Roger, Rafa, and Novak has been thoroughly analyzed. On to Toronto, see if Novak can pick up points there, defend Cincinnati and the USO. He wins Cincy, he has a Double Masters Sweep. And the insane thing is that if he could manage an extra Monte Carlo and 3rd Cinncy title before his career ends, he will have a Triple Masters Sweep. No idea when, or how much time Rafa will take off for wedding and honeymoon. Or if – he leaves Xisca at the alter. Murray could have a comeback triumph at a major or the championships or at a Masters. Djokovic is playing Japan. Chasing the year end #1 and Championship to tie Pete and Roger respectively. Rafa early next year will chase the Double Career Slam.
All sorts of good things await men’s tennis.


Van Persie Says:

“And another flaw with Djokovic is he keeps telling the story about how he made Wimbledon trophies as a boy, out of foil from the kitchen and bits and pieces from his room.A really charming story the 1st 25 times he told it. Now it is just Djokobot boilerplate.””

Haha CF1, laughed on this one …Yes I thought the same, and he was so natural at the end with the nonconformist celebration. When smirking at the crowds, he was so himself, like in the good old days :)
I will joke a bit, should Fed hear this story from Nole one more time at Wimbledon , he will get soo insane, that he will use it himself, if (BIG IF)winning the trophy. :)


Giles Says:

Oye Freddie. Live with it dude!


j-kath Says:

Fred Stone:

Thanks for posting an alternative tennis site – it was fine – but I’m not won over by it’s presentation – it’s a bit slow…however is a useful comparison.

PS: I don’t agree that there is hate and bullying on this site – yes, there are differing views sometimes strongly stated verging into being “personal”- but hey – what a dull world it would be if we all became robotic?


Wog Boy Says:

FE,
Somebody is shaking your cage again, naughty people.

Pay attention when you read, I didn’t state anything, just copy/paste the thread from the link your mate Freddy the Stone posted.
Besides, what difference make that the writer of the article, Scoop Malinowski, said 5 instead 4 sets, result is the same, 37 years old lost another final to the player that owns him, no?

I’ll come over, to Deutchland, to tell those naughty people to stop shaking your cage…or at least to drop some food in to calm you down;)


fred stone Says:

Oh yes, love is in the air.
I can feel it.

You’re welcome, to those who’ve never heard of the Tennis Prose site and appreciate it.
It brings a different meaning to the word “discussion”.

PS
Have a nice day, haters. :)


skeezer Says:

‘…37 years old lost another final to the player that owns him, no?”
Just a heads up about the game of Tennis: Losing 13-12 in a 5th set TB over a 37yr old is not “ownage”. Ownage is consistently having a winning H2H against another player. Djoker is what, 26-22? Far from that over Fed. Ownage would be like Fed over Roddick 21-3, something like that.

Fred,

You’re right about the bullying tactics, biased twisted stats, etc, and don’t see that @ TP for the most part. More civil for sure.

VP,
I read that also about Wilanders take, this was what I agree with him on for sure:

“Wilander, who won seven grand slams but never made it past the quarterfinals at Wimbledon, questioned Federer’s decision to go for big serves up the middle against the Serbian when he had match points.

“Djokovic would never have gone for it,” Wilander told L’Equipe. “It is basic, serve at the weak point of your opponent.”

Totally agree. But it is easy for anyone to say woulda shoulda coulda at this point.


Wog Boy Says:

“ownage” Is when you consistently beat someone in the finals, where it matters, something like 14 : 6

Freddy the Stone, you are behaving like a mouse caught by cat, running around knowing your minutes are numberd,from, from the difference of mouse who was unwillingly caught, you brought yourself into this situation, that happens far to often to you main supporter here, two faced sleezer.


Wog Boy Says:

“..far too often to your..” should say

PS,
You will be better off changing support team;)


skeezer Says:

Twisting stats again. Excuse me, how many times have they played each other overall?

Fred, you’ll notice when they start calling names and bully stuff they are out of knowledge of an intelligent conversation ;)


fred stone Says:

I get it, Skeezer.
The mud-slinging, bad-boy, tough-guy shtick is tiresome but typical of the uber-arrogant Djoker crowd.


Dave Says:

A few talking points. From a purely movement standpoint, It seems athletes are able to keep their foot speed later on into their careers. It actually quite amazing that Justin Gatlin is still one of the fastest runners in the world at 37 years old. Federer still seems to be moving very well at 37 also.

Another point that I find interesting. This whole grand slam debate wouldn’t even be going on right now especially between Federer and Djokovic if it weren’t for the last 4 head to head finals at grandslams. Think about this. If Federer goes 4 and 0 against Djokovic in the last 4 finals it’s 24 to 12 Federer. He is sitting on Double the grandslams. Instead Djokovic is 4 and 0 in the last 4 head to head finals and it’s 20 to 16. That is a big turning point in why the odds of Federer getting passed by Djokovic and or Nadal are much higher than without this big factor. Of course their are other factors as well. Like Nadal missing grandslams with injuries. Djokovic coming along in 2011 and stopping Nadal from passing Federer. It’s quite interesting how these head to head matches change things in this race. And of course if their are anymore, they will have a huge effect on how this plays out.


Dave Says:

Also,

Nadal is less than 500 points ahead of Federer with 1000 points to defend to Federer’s 600. That number #2 seed for the US Open is going to be big for either player. It will be difficult for Nadal to repeat in Montreal again. Of course he will be able to go to Cincinnati and get more points if he needs to.


Wog Boy Says:

When Fedfanatic calls someone arogant?!


Daniel Says:

Dave,

Agree ref HxH. Another point most people miss is that in tennis any match loss or won count as 2.

Example:

Fed and Nadal played 40 times. On paper, for a perfect even HxH, their numbers were supposed to be 20-20. But in reality its 24-16 for Nadal. You look at this number and say: “Nadal has 8 more wins than Federer”, but the direct aspect of tennis actually means Nadal won 4 more matches than he “should” have.

Had Federer won 4 more mathces, Nadal would have lost 4 more matches and their HXH would be a perfeclty even 20-20.

Similar to what you wrote about the latest 4 GS finals between Fed and Djoko.

Their HxH is 26-22, meaning Djoko won 2 more matches than his supposed 24 each (out of 48 matches played).

Had Federer won the latest match, the Slam tally would be 21-15 (6 more) instead it is 20-16 just 4 Slams difference. Every direct match weights 2 times in the Big 3 dynamics, as a win also nullifiy a pontential increase by the other.


Dave Says:

Daniel,

One more record that will either be shared by Federer and Djokovic or Djokovic will sit alone is most Majors won in a decade. It’s tied at 15 with only the US Open left in this decade for Djokovic to add.


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