Tsitsipas Too Good For Federer, Will Meet Thiem For ATP Finals Title; Who’s The Pick?
by Sean Randall | November 16th, 2019, 11:51 pm
  • 95 Comments

Two players who I didn’t even have making the semifinals are in the title match of the ATP Finals on Sunday. The last tournament of the 2019 season will feature Dominic Thiem taking on Stefanos Tsitsipas after both enjoyed comfortable straight set wins today.

Tsitsipas, who beat Daniil Medvedev and Alexander Zverev during his round robin week, got over once again on Roger Federer. A day after falling in three to Rafael Nadal, the Greek showed no signs of that 3-hour battle with the Spaniard, outslugging Federer who was well-rested and in-form following one of his best performances of the year Thursday against Novak Djokovic.

Like in Australia where Federer went 0-for-12 against Tsitsipas on break points, today, Roger was just as bad going an awful 1-for-12.

Tsitsipas was simply too good in all departments and really took it to Federer during the cross-court one-handed backhand battles.

Bottom line: The 17-year age gap showed.

“I remember myself being one of these kids here, watching the event and..I could never picture myself standing here, but it did happen,” Tsitsipas said. “Dreams do come true.

“Sometimes in matches like this, you wonder how you overcome all these difficulties, all these break points down. It’s really a mental struggle, so I’m really proud that I managed to save so many break points today,” Tsitsipas added. “I was trying not to give an easy time to Roger. He was playing good and shout out to him as well. He did pretty well this week.”

Federer’s exit means on Sunday there will be a new ATP Finals champion for a fourth straight year.

“I thought that he played really well. He took the ball early. I know he does that. I thought I returned pretty good on the first serve,” said Federer.

“But for the most part, I wasn’t quite getting into the rallies the way I wanted to,” he said. “I think I have to credit him for pushing me to not play at the level I was hoping to today.”

Tsitsipas was up on the baseline and Federer just couldn’t hit through the youngster. And once Federer was on the run, he got in trouble.

So Tsitsipas will now get Thiem who won a tight first set then hung on to eliminate defending champion Alexander Zverev 7-5, 6-3.

Zverev has been plagued by serving woes all year and it surfaced again today late in the first when he doubled to give the set away. While he was pumping the first serve well, the German star struggled on his second and that cost him. As did some mangled overheads!

Thiem didn’t serve great, but fought through some tight moments in the second and as he’s done all week, all year and all his career, he just ruthlessly pounded ground strokes.

“This is just a big, big dream coming true for me,” Thiem said. “It is one of the best tournaments all year, one of the most prestigious tournaments all year, and I’m getting the chance to play the final tomorrow. It’s unreal to me. To beat the defending champion, a good player, an unbelievable player, this is always a great achievement and I’m very, very happy.”

To the final…

Dominic Thiem v Stefanos Tsitsipas
I’m not surprised the Greek got here. He beat Medvedev and earned his way in. And I’m not stunned he beat Roger today. He’s had a great year and he deserves this final.

I am surprised that Thiem was able to get through Federer and Djokovic in his group. Federer had a great win over Novak. But Djokovic wasn’t right for whatever reason and Thiem took advantage. And did so on arguably his worst surface – a quick hardcourt.

Looking at this match-up, Thiem leads 4-2 with all meetings since the start of 2018. Thiem won recently in the Beijing final in three sets last month and I’m going to give him the slight edge here.

Thiem seems to be in better form of late, has the experience and has the head-to-head advantage.

That said, I think this quick court might be better for Tsitsipas and I think the Greek is more dynamic than Thiem. Stefanos has got a better serve and a little more variety.

“This does feel, in a way, like a Grand Slam, because all eyes are here. Everyone knows this event. Everyone who watches tennis knows what the Nitto Finals are,” Tsitsipas said. “For me, it’s a great new start, great new beginning to be here, playing in the Finals. I would compare it almost as a Grand Slam, for sure, but you have less matches. It’s really very difficult to be in that position I am in right now, and it counts a lot.”

But this match is going to come down to who pounds the ball better and I think Thiem is just a bit stronger in that category.

“One-handed backhand final. We are both very offensive players, he’s very attractive to watch. I love to watch him, so I’m really looking forward to playing,” Thiem said. “I’m so happy and also lucky to get another chance to play in front of this amazing atmosphere.”

If Dominic stays up in the court, gets some errors from Tsitsipas, then he’s the champion. Regardless, it’s a hell-of-a run for both guys, especially for Tsitsipas who was winning the NextGen final this time last year. Now, they each seek their biggest career title. Who gets it tomorrow?
The Pick: Thiem in 3

ESPN2 will have live coverage at 3pm ET. It’s weird without a Big 3 in the title match, but welcome to the future.


You Might Like:
Tsitsipas Overcomes Zverev, Will Meet Thiem In Beijing Final
Thiem Tops Tsitsipas For Beijing Win
Rafael Nadal v Stefanos Tsitsipas In Australian Open SF #1, Who’s The Pick?
Tsitsipas Tops Thiem In A Thriller For ATP Finals Title
Tsitsipas Seeks To Get On Track In Marseille Title Defense; Medvedev, Shapovalov Lurk

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95 Comments for Tsitsipas Too Good For Federer, Will Meet Thiem For ATP Finals Title; Who’s The Pick?

Old School Says:

This match up is good for tennis & will produce some great play. Two younger players, evenly matched going head to head. Right now both believe they can win. Will prevails, DT slight edge.


chrisford1 Says:

Fair to think we are at the beginning of a changing of the guard, though Novak might be in the mix for another 5 years if he ditches his nutty diet and occultism, Rafa maybe 2-3 years. Though none of the younger stars won a Slam yet, they are showing results in Masters and ATP Championship play and close losses at the Slams.
Are they as talented as the Big 3 plus Andy, able to make as big an impact on the sport in their careers as those guys? No, I don’t think so. But their time is coming and Slams and stardom are coming, too.


Van Persie Says:

Go Thiem!


Van Persie Says:

CF1,

I am sure the youngsters will win slams next year.


chofer Says:

I think Thiem is the btter fighter.

But I like Tsitsipas’ tennis better.


chofer Says:

Tsitsipas should try the lob instead of passing shots. Thiem is so close to the net it wouldn’t have an option. Thiem natural top-spin is more adecuate for lobbing.

Good match so far.


chofer Says:

The “Big 3” fandom it’s annoying since nobody bothers to see a gret match when none of them is playing (?) Where are you people?


Van Persie Says:

Chofer,

Well, I like intensity and endurance 🙂


chofer Says:

@Vp

Naturally, being a Djoko fan. But Thiem seems to me more a one handed version of Rafa:)


fred stone Says:

Well the Greek blinked and Thiem takes set #1.
The three Goats will be missed but time moves on.
Two one-handed backhanders playing in a big final, that’s a rare one this decade.


chofer Says:

Tsitsipas needsto improve that BH. Then again, Thiem didn’thave that BH either at 21.

The Austrian is a very good big match player. Let’s see if he can handle physically a Slam in Hard Courts. Like Rafa, it takes a lot out of his body. Clay comes more naturally to grind it out.


chofer Says:

First break. This is good for the match.


Van Persie Says:

Thiem is kind of a combination btw Rafa and Wawa. Rafa’s topspeen, one handed BH like Wawa.

Med smacks the FH a bit like DelPo, has the endurance but lacks Nole’s deep return, accuracy, backhand an is not as flexible as Nole. But Med can be stubborn like Nole, otherwise I do not see many things in common in their game.

P.S. I prefer Rafa to Roger😁

Tsitsi could be compared to Roger, but we are wrong when comparing them to the giants 😎


chofer Says:

Thiem reminds me of Rafa on HC in the sense that he relaxed a little, lose a bit ofintensity, and the serve is gone.

He needsthe intensity like water in a desert.

Tsitsipas is more natural on this surface.


chofer Says:

Med smacks the FH a bit like DelPo

No. Delpos FH has a cleaner mechanics than the Russian. It’sbetter. Med BHs is his more natural and sounded stroke. He’s stubborn, though.

Idon’t compare them to those giants, but it’seasy to see how the Greek molded his tennis after Federer. He has a better IQ than Dimitrov, too. Which bodes well for his future.

Needs toimprove on big matches. He gets a little tentative o big points. Unlike Thiem, who goes for broke, even if he lands his ball 3 feet out.


Van Persie Says:

Yeah, about intensity, I like Rafa a lot, but can get tired by seing him playing each point, as it is a match point, no matter the opponent.

Nole suits my life philosophy more: give your best in crucial moments😁. even if he changed a bit lately


chofer Says:

The Greek shots have a safest margin ratio than Thiem’s.

And his mechanics are more sound. But coming to a third set, I like Thiem’s endurance and fight. He’s so strong and has much torque on the grip he tries to bully you into errors. Much like Rafa.

Let’s see. As I said, his intensity dropped, the Greek profited.


chofer Says:

Nole suits my life philosophy more: give your best in crucial moments😁. even if he changed a bit lately

Nole is by far the better mover. That’s why hard courts are no problem to him. Even if he’s grinding it out.
He covers the baseline better than rafa. It’s Rafa intensity and willing to adjust on HC that separates him from the rest. Thiem surely saw videos of rafa on hard courts. But he’s willingto come forward more lately. Something Rafa took a long time in realising imo.


chofer Says:

Anyway, it’s not like Rafa didn’t have success on them either. Credit to his self-believe.


chofer Says:

Look for Thiem to recover his intensity on the third set.

And even the match again.

But you see what happen on this surface when the intensity wanes. Even in that trait Thiem reminds me of Rafa.
He needs staying aggressive. Meaning playing closer to the baseline. Something he has learnt, but it’s not natural to him.


chofer Says:

In a way, this match is so far like countless Fedal on hard courts.

Staying aggressive and taking time away from opponents is the Greek’s structure. Like Federer himseld.

Once he improves his BH down the line, watch out.


Van Persie Says:

Well, I did not tell Rafa could not beat them, he’s a bit to intense (also when it is not the case, for my taste)

about Nole:when he does not face a dangerous opponent, he does not spend too much energy, but plays brilliantly when it matters, and boy, he could endure a lot 😁, but this happened more in the past.

Fed playa very smartbut never had the stamina of Nole or Rafa. Very good temnis player, but not the best athlete.


chofer Says:

This is,tactically, like a Fedal. Thiem looking Tsitsis BH. Tsitsi playing behind his FH.


Van Persie Says:

Thiem really challenged on his serve


chofer Says:

Fed playa very smartbut never had the stamina of Nole or Rafa. Very good temnis player, but not the best athlete.

That applies to evry NATURAL I’ve seen:McEnroe, Mecir, Nalbandian,etc.


chofer Says:

To annoy with the comparisons even more: Who is the “silent” type and who’s not?


Van Persie Says:

chofer,

well, I think Rafa and Nole were natural aswell. Stamina was a bonus. They used this advantage properly


chofer Says:

As for the “best athlete” thing, Federer is doing quite well at 38. He hasn’t needed to cover the courts like the others do because he playes well inside. That extends a career, too.

I think he trains, too. No?


Van Persie Says:

Looks like clay specialists cannot be silent lol


chofer Says:

VP

I think “stamina” is a more aproppiate description than “athlete”.

Rafa and Nole has had this in spades. And themental fortitude to back it up.


Van Persie Says:

chofer,

see, I touched a nerve. Ibknew yiu were a Roger fan, as much as yiu want to look neutral. You do not have to hide it 😉.

Well, Febdis doing very well with 38, but still think:peak Nole or peak Rafa are beating peak Roger.

I did not speak about longevity, I spoke about stamina.


chofer Says:

Looks like clay specialists cannot be silent lol

Ithink it has more to do that he requires a more extreme motion to his shots. And,in a way, screaming is a psychological way to keep up the intensity going.

Thiem won’t go away with a fight. That’s the only sure thing now.


Van Persie Says:

sorry for the typos, typing from my phone 🙂


chofer Says:

As much as this surprise you, I wanted rafa to get closer to Roger in GS the last few years. So I was rooting for him.


chofer Says:

Like I said about Thiem…


chofer Says:

In this match,however, I want the Greek to win.

Difficult now. He had the chance to pull the trigger. Like in Shangai finals. Deja vu.


Van Persie Says:

Well, you are not a fanatic Roger fan, in this case 🙂


Van Persie Says:

match far from over


chofer Says:

Well, you are not a fanatic Roger fan, in this case

That’s right.

The match it’s not over but Tsitsipas tends to break a little more under pressure. Let’s seeif he can keep his serve, Thiem, as usual, will go for broke here.


Van Persie Says:

Yes, chofer, forgot about the mental fortitude. Think only Borg has this like Rafa and Nole in the past. Looks like mental fortitude goes with the endurance.

Will we have a TB here?


Van Persie Says:

dramatic match😁

let’s see if Thiem can brat Tsi now


Van Persie Says:

break, not brat


chofer Says:

The thing is that Tsitsi had this on his serve.

That should play on the back of both minds. The psychological advantage is for Thiem now. At the very least, he has the Tb secured.


Van Persie Says:

TB it is.


RZ Says:

This has been a good match to close out the ATP year.


chofer Says:

Tsitsi couldn’t allow to be tentatibe when he has the adv.


chofer Says:

Oh well…


chofer Says:

YAYY!!


Van Persie Says:

Oh well,. Tsitsi won it.

Congrats, chofer!

Sorry for Thiem. He was so close.

Fantastic match


chofer Says:

Wasn’t it clear the always pro-Roger crowd was after?
People see what I see there.

The real Baby Fed is HIM.


Anto Says:

What a fantastic match. Congrats to Tsitsipas. To think that he won in his very first ATP Finals.


chofer Says:

Sorry for Thiem. He was so close.

By a hair. Best match after Thiem-Djoko.

And for being a final, I think this was better.


RZ Says:

Disappointing last point to an otherwise fantastic match.

Big congratulations to Tsitsipas, who’s been so impressive this year. While I’m sad for Thiem, I think 2020 will be an amazing year for him.


chofer Says:

Lasy year’s Next Gen Masters winner, this year’s ATP Finals winner.

That’s improvement.

Twothings he nedds imo: better approach shots and a most stable BH down the line.

He corrects these things and he xan be very difficult to defeat.

One more thing: He grew up on clay. So, after Rafa, Djoko and Thiem, he can do damage there, too.


j-kath Says:

Thiem looked very pale throughout – is that true or is it my TV ? But think he was “under the weather” the second set kind of indicates it. Anyways – it was a good final. Well done both of them. Next year I’m hoping to London for the finals, before it re-locates elsewhere.


skeezer Says:

Congrats Tsitsipas. Great all around game and fun to watch. Theim great run also. One handers rock!👍


chrisford1 Says:

On a little too early to see live in the USA. Would have liked to see the match as it happened, but I can watch it on tape. From the lefty rag The Guardian blow by blow text and comments here, it sounded like a great match. I don’t mind knowing the winner. It is secondary to watching two guys play great tennis.
In the coming year, I’d like to see Thiem take clay season, but have Novak win the French Open as an exception – for my selfish reasons. That said, Djoko needs some fixing if he is going to continue to go at more of Fed’s records.
As for Tsitsipas, great season and you saw him get stronger, better, tougher, with more stamina than in 2018. Good things await him after this fine ATP Championship win.


chrisford1 Says:

And congrats again to Rafa on a well-deserved #1 ATP Ranking for the end of the year.
The Bryan Brothers just announced 2020 will be their last season. Doubles does not get the attention of singles, but the two qualify in my mind, along with the Big three, to be placed in the “Legends” category. An amazing career for the American identical twins.


Colin Says:

The Guardian is a “lefty rag” is it?
My hackles rise whenever I see “lefty” or “liberal” used as terms of abuse. Most of the other UK papers are rightwing rags,notably the Daily Mail, which is known for good reasons as the Daily Heil, since it supported Hitler’s Germany throughout the nineteen-thirties. Its owner, Lord Rothermere,
exchanged back-slapping letters and cables with both Hitler and Mussolini. Well, chrisford, I hope you’re happy with the mad blond’s finger on the button! You seem to share his view of the world.
Meanwhile, I am still missing Andy. Since the final was clinched by the doubles, I wish Jaimie could have been paired with his brother. They just might have managed to beat the Spaniards. Mind you, I suspect Andy will be crippled in middle age if he continues stressing that metal hip.


Wog Boy Says:

Go Boris, go Brexit, down with a dictatorial EU.
What a disaster for Labor (read communists), same happened in Australia this year, they lost unlosable election.


Alison Hodge Says:

Wogboy completely agree, while im no Tory voter, ill be happy to see Brexit delivered once and for all ….


j-kath Says:

UK’s Trump is a total cheat. I originally voted leave but realising the damage it is already doing to the UK, and especially Scotland it is unforgivable. Brexit will not be delivered any time soon – and the UK will never be the same again.


Alison Hodge Says:

Whichever you cut it basically we are screwed ….


j-kath Says:

Colin – Absolutely agree with you re. the Daily Mail….it is a disgrace to balanced reporting.
Alison: Yep.
If anyone is interested this is an article/letter I sent to my local press which was printed –
“JUST ADD WATER”: says BORIS.

It’s no wonder that Boris Johnstone says: “Just add water”, even though he knows that England is set to run out of water within 25 years. So where will Boris get the water for his “pre-cooked oven-ready BREXIT? Ah, he’s not telling! So let’s see if we can guess:
Darn it! It’s that same country that he wants to punish for not bending to his will; who had the audacity to force him and his “Yes, Sir, No Sir, 3 bags full Sir” companion to take to their heels in Edinburgh. Yes, it’s Scotland!

Scotland has more than 31,000 fresh water lochs PLUS LOCH NESS which on its own has more water than all of England and Wales combined…..and climate change is coming.
Yes, Scotland has been blessed: An abundance of natural resources for agriculture, mineral, including zinc, iron, oil and shale. Forests represent 15% of its total land area. Last year Scotland’s exports rose to 5.6%; Wales 4.2%; England 2.1%; NI 1.9%. It has its own “Silicon Glen” employing 45,000 people producing electronics & related goods. In 2006 it produced 28% of Europe’s PC’s more than 7% of the world’s PCs and 29% of Europe’s Notebooks. Excluding intra UK trade, the EU and USA were its largest export markets.
Renewable Energy: Scotland is endowed with some of the best energy resources in Europe and is already a net exporter of electricity. In the face of climate change, it has significant potential for further development of renewable energy source i.e. abundant wave, tidal and wind power. Currently renewables provide Scotland with 35% of its electricity production with onshore wind generation and has plans to increase windfarms including one of the world’s largest onshore windfarm on the Isle of Lewis together with harnessing major wave and tidal developments around Scotland with LIMPET energy converts which already produces power for the National Grid.

There’s loads more information re. Scotland’s work under the SNP but I’ll leave it here because sadly there are many aspects of economic and fiscal policies that remain a matter for Westminster and which has a direct negative impact on the economy of Scotland. So please, we voted 63% to Remain so don’t let Boris Johnstone take us out of the EU. If he succeeds Brexit will also give the Westminster Parliament competence over Scotland’s trade, making it dependent on trade agreements struck only by the UK Government.
If you originally voted to LEAVE – as I confess to doing – there’s nothing wrong with changing one’s mind.
Name and Address supplied


chrisford1 Says:

Don’t have a stake in this, but having the freedom to call the Guardian and Daily Mail rags on the opposite sides of the spectrum means I can always pipe up about Brexit. It’s another sign of changing times. Open rebellion against elitism, globalism, the Left. Against the Labour Party and EU apparatchiks flipping their middle fingers at the voters the last 30 years in multiple countries.

It almost toppled Trudeau and had Canada been party to the EU and all the Diktats coming from Brussels, he would have been toast.

I’d like to see the yuuuuuge! trade deal Trump is promising. If big enough, and fair enough, it may make the EU breakaway more palatable. Right now it is the Scots and Londonistan claiming they get screwed by Brexit. I want to see if anything changes in their attitudes when the US/Canada/UK trade negotiations start. Norway, Ireland and Germany wish to attend as observers. For different reasons.

If nothing else, if Brexit doesn’t deliver, the British will have a great bargaining position with the German EU Masters and their appointed Eurocrats – should they seek a return to the Deutchesfold at some point.


Colin Says:

Chrisford, you really do like mangling the meaning of what you are trying to say. Just what do you mean by “Londonistan”?
If anyone is claiming to make sensible remarks in English, Trump is the last person whose style he should copy.

Even at this late date the Donald persists in his claim that there are places in the UK which are effectively under Sharia law, where the police are scared to go. I, the least heroic of people, travel sometimes to Aldgate East tube station, which was closed for a while after the London bombings of 2012, and I do not feel in the least nervous. The shops in the area are mostly run by Muslims, and the supermarkets sell
alcoholic drinks. This, and the presence of pubs in the district, prove that Sharia Law does not apply. When Sadiq Khan became Mayor of London, the internet was awash with idiots claiming he would institute Sharia law. Khan is not some kind of terrorist, or even a Communist. He is a genuine Socialist, and the son of a bus driver.


chrisford1 Says:

Lets pick up this discussion, if need be, around pre-Wimbledon time. When Queens, Halle, Boodles, Eastbourne are going on. Big events are being set in motion by Labour’s historic losses and how the UK, Scotland, The Continent, and USA will deal with the Brexit affirmation vote.
Yes, j-Kath, water could be a problem south of Scotland if Open Borders and worst case climate projections happen. I think England will sort it out, somehow, like the US Southwest has done as 10s of millions of illegals and their “anchor babies” moved in. Andit rains a whole lot more in England than it does in Arizona. Gray water is recycled for use in agriculture, car washes, after processing out contaminants, lawns use dry grass breeds or no grass at all. SoCal keeps water rates very high to discourage excess use.
Water shouldn’t be a deal-breaker for Brexit. Scotland will be happy to sell it’s excess water down south if need be. Who else are they going to sell to? And England can build some of the reservoirs that have been recommended over the years, if need be.


j-kath Says:

Chrisford 1:
England struggles to find available land space even for house-building. Water is linked to other factors re. England vs. Scotland, the latter moving faster on climate change…wind power etc. However, the wealthiest “region” in the entire UK is still S.E. which appears to subsidise the majority of all other regions of the UK. At the moment Scotland lies in the middle – neither a drain nor a cash cow i.e. roughly pulls its weight – however, one huge burden is FasLane Nucleur.

As far as GDP per capita, Scotland is the 6th richest country – it is stifled by England under the guise of the UK by many factors: e.g. Oil, Whisky, DNA research; video gaming, etc. which contribute more to England’s GDP than to Scotland. We still have more oil than Norway yet the latter has $1 trillion surplus fund while we have to share England’s £2 trillion greed based debt while having approx. 200k children living in poverty.


j-kath Says:

Colin: Yes, I have great regard for Sadiq Khan. Rory is after his job as an Independent London Mayor….he is also a good guy…..but he ought to return to main stream and challenge Johnstone via main Parliament.


Wog Boy Says:

I am EU sceptic and my dislike for EU is also personal, but let’s put that aside and look at the facts.
Since Treaty of Lisbon UK is basically just another EU member country that can be and will be outvoted by countries that even haven’t existed until recently.

Do you really believe that any UK ideas and suggestions that is not liked by Germany and their junior partner France can pass in EU parliament?
Absolutely not, all Eastern and Central European countries will vote as frau Merkel requests and how many Western European countries will vote in favor of UK? Very few.
Haven’t we seen that with millions of illegal immigrants invited by frau Merkel, the only 2 countries that stood their grounds and refused to accept them are Hungary and UK, furthermore Hungary had guts to expell the most evil and dangerous man atm in the world and his sons, George Soros, my outmost respect goes to Viktor Orban. He was declared dictator just for protecting interests of his country instead of bending over to Germany and their junior partner France like other EU countries are doing, UK excluded.
Question for UK citizens, do you know that UK had to sacrifice their political and particularly economical connections with Commonwealth countries because of EU and their protectionism?
Do you know where natural resources are and where is the money? I’ll help you, in Commonwealth countries.
UK is on the verge of signing trade agreements with USA, Canada, Australia, New Zeland, SAR … which will be more beneficial for UK than any existing EU deal.
My mother use to tell (and she never put her foot outsude Serbia):
“England thinks 100 years ahead”, whether we like England or not they proved this saying time and time again.
This is perfect timing for UK to get out of EU, outdated overbotoxed old lady.
I hope Scotland will be smart enough to rush from one union to another in which it will be even more controlled and regulated than in this one.
I’ll give you (in sperate post) UK and Australia benefits from BREXIT, you can multiply that with other Commonwealth countries plus USA.


Wog Boy Says:

“not rush from one union to another..” should say.


Wog Boy Says:

Ok, these are advantages for Australia and UK of BREXIT:

https://fx-australia.com/advantages-of-brexit-for-the-australian-economy/


j-kath Says:

Wog Boy: I hope Scotland gets out of its very unhappy union led by Boris Johnstone – because it isn’t a union in any way whatsoever. Scotland knows the EU – there is no country within it or collectively who can bully Scotland to the level currently happening here.

I don’t know much about Australia except it appears to be one of the countries that is not as committed to climate change as Scotland is……and this is extremely important to me. Far-flung countries like USA/Canada/Australia who could offer trade would need to deliver day-to-day perishable goods e.g. food by air – an additional challenge to climate change.

On beef, chicken etc. there is already a resistance here to non-British grown food…..alas, it is the very poor in the UK who buy the cheaper imports as others who can afford home produce will not touch imports – even if they carry an EU sticker…..and much less likely to buy “treated” US chicken. We have seen on TV the lack of strict hygiene regulations currently accepted in the US…..and I can bet my entire bank account that Boris Johnstone doesn’t eat the US-products even if he will congratulate himself for bringing it in.

Wogboy, probably you need to be living in the UK to understand how deep the anger goes throughout the 4 nations of this blighted so-called Great Britain & Northern Ireland.


Wog Boy Says:

JK,
I was careful not to interfere with whether you should leave or not Union Jack, that’s entirely up to Scottish people, my point was why would you leave one union to join another one, if Scotland is that rich as you mentioned and compared it with Norway why would you join EU, you can stay out of EU, Norway is not EU member neither is Switzerland?!

As for climate change I will disappoint you, I don’t believe in it and it’s the biggest con in recent history started with Al Gore and used as political and economical weapon by powerful lobbies.
We do not really know climate cycles, do we? We have records for the last 100-200 years and this planet exists for millions of years and had and has climate cycles that we (humans) don’t have clue about.
Now, do the humans damage and polute this planet, of course they do, but that’s different from climate change as it is represented,
You probably can see on TV that Australia is struggling with the biggest draught on the record, Sydney is on 40% water reserves and hypothetically, if it doesn’t rain until the end of 2022 we will be completely out of water, but that has nothing to do with climate change, it’s the weather cycles that we know nothing about and overpopulated city (when I arrived here 30 years ago population was 2,9 million and now is 5,5 million people using same water dams, same as we are talking about luck of food in Africa but not about population that quadruple in the last 40 years).
We have huge bush fires that are raging in the last two months, but 9 out of 10 are caused by humans not by climate change.

As for living in UK to know what they think and how they feel, trust me no need to leave in UK having so many British expatriates here, very vocal ones when it comes to politics, furthermore, I work with British tourists, just two weeks ago I had 4 couples from England who got of the Cruise ship and did 4 days extended tour of Sydney and NSW, 2 couples from London (Indian background) an 2 couples from Devon, all 8 of them were die hard Brexiters, the most vocal ones were, you are guessing, British Indians from London.
Good luck with whatever your Scottish people decide, I love Scottish people, and I love Glasgow Rangers FC…and they love Union Jack;)


Wog Boy Says:

“live” not “leave”, “lack” not “luck”… but you get it.


j-kath Says:

OK Wogboy – My last posting on this subject.
Sorri but I don’t equate knowing Brit. expats and/or occasional tourists to what it is like to living in Scotland, etc. As for climate change…..wow! – the science is clear – you can choose not to believe it if you like.

As for Norway and Switzerland: Norway has a 64pc higher than UK and is as close to the EU, especially on trade as it can possibly be….and is in EFTA as is Switzerland (40% higher than UK) + Iceland & Liechtenstein – (although EU wants to use “equivalence” in trading which Swiss are challenging).

And Glasgow Celtic? As for “Rangers” – let’s wait to see how they feel after Boris decimates Scotland. Enjoy 2020 – it’s later than you think. Bye – seeyah when Tennis re-starts.


Van Persie Says:

Wanted to stay out of this topic, but the US would be the only one to benefit hugely, should Brexit take place.
Should the EU fall(which I really doubt, it will happen) , US would be able to have more control over Eastern Europe, which I really do not want to happen. Germany, France are not perfect, but they are more interrested in having peace in the East, than the US does. Not to forget, China is crushing the West, economically speaking. US is more desperate then ever thatvthe EU could trade more and more with China.

UK is no longer the power, which was decades ago, time to admit it.

Ok, Happy Holidays to everyone! :)


Van Persie Says:

WB,

Things are really complicated atm, and I no not trust tabloids and newspapers anymore🙂

As for George Soros, yes, he is a danger for Eastern Europe, but I really do not think Trump wants to get rid of him for Eastern Europe’s good. If Soros disapears, another jerks will replace him. Do not let you fooled by the apparences, that Trump and Putin might be in good relations. Putin (and Trump) is really aware of Russia’s resources 😉

Am just trying to figure out, which of the dangers, is a smaller danger for me🙂


Wog Boy Says:

I like you both girls, let’s have a drink and listen to good jolly music, it’s a jolly time after all:

https://youtu.be/YJ8wo8hde0c

P.S.
Glasgow Celtic? Glasgow Celtic wasn’t established by native Scotts nor his fan base was Scottish, were they?;) I bet they voted and will vote again to leave UK.
Don’t they wave other country flag instead of Scottish or UK flag during the matches?
Same as Hibernian and Hearts in Edinburgh?
What is my point, big possibility of sectarian war like in Northern Ireland, am I right?


j-kath Says:

Van Persie: Agree – UK not the power or has influence as in the past despite the apron strings of the Commonwealth. Like a flashy magazine with infantile text.

Wogboy: I only mentioned the other Glasgow team in response to you – and yes, one is more N. Irish than the other – and yes, they are competitive, as are their fans – but not politically (all Glasgow constituences voted for SNP and Remain). Sectarian war in NI possible but no signs of that in Scotland who are fighting Boris also on the fact that majority of EU citizens living in Scotland MUST be allowed to remain.

My sister, Angela & hubby have lived in France for over 10 years and also recently bought in Spain – she’s coming “home” mid-January to see if she can be listed as having a close enough Irish relative to re-establish in the EU (her hubby had an Irish grandfather).


Wog Boy Says:

VP,
This one is for you, I know he was popular in the Balkans (I didn’t like him because all the girls liked him then) he still can fit in the same pants he wore 40 years ago, I cannot in the ones I wore 10 years ago;)

https://youtu.be/dXzGboF2rps


Wog Boy Says:

JK,
Let’s wait and see, Scottish people are very pragmatic people, particularly when it comes to money;)
I am sure they will get a good deal with Boris and settle everything in favour of Scotland.

Go Rangers, go Gerrard….this Sunday, the biggest derby of all.


Wog Boy Says:

Girls,
the people where I am coming from are very, very loyal people. I don’t appreciate when someone is rubbishing Queen since I gave my Oath of Allegiance to Australia and Queen as my head of the state 30 years ago when I got my citizenship:

“I swear by Almighty God that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Elizabeth the Second, Queen of Australia, Her heirs and successors according to law, and that I will faithfully observe the laws of Australia and fulfil my duties as an Australian citizen.”

I am going now to open my last bottle of Dimple and toast to Queen:
God save the Queen…..and the rest of the world…but not George Soros…


Alison Hodge Says:

Wogboy lol its not Brexit but hope you enjoy Liverpool going into the new year 13 points clear https://youtu.be/iPUVHaxWGO0 XX :-)


chrisford1 Says:

I would like to talk about how much Scotland has played a big part in America from two not so commonly known ‘facts’. 8 of the 12 moon walkers had Scottish ancestry. 35 of the last 45 Presidents had Scottish ancestry. Bill Clinton might be added to the list and as President, two other Americans that became President were Sam Houston of the Republic of Texas and Jefferson Davis of the Presidency.
They are all through the various lists of accomplished Americans of all ilk.
j-kath, like Wogboy, I don’t see great urgency about Global Warming and believe that the natural holocene warming cycle plays a predominant part. CO2 from man worries me in the sense that carbon production is greater than carbon removal due to human CO2 generation. No longer in equilibrium. But it is hard to be alarmed when worst case ocean rise is 1.2 meters by 2150. And when the bulk of the rise appears to me to be natural and part of that holocene warming cycle. I believe the Europeans whipped themselves up to Green craziness, as with GM crops, and it is good Trump gave them a reality check. By 2150, I think that thinks will be addressed without hair shirt, virtue signalling of Greener than Thou put in more realistic perspective. Overpopulation and development and modern infrastructure taking over 3rd world countries is the driver. Not some poor Scot whipping herself with a cat o’ 9 tails because people still use peat for heating up there. 130 years for pandemics, war, and use of a gradual transition to renewables and fusion-fission power plants should eventually stop the rise.
I believe that Ireland saw some benefits from EU – great financial and business growth before that went up in smoke – and now EU is thought of as not so great for the Irish. Which is why Americans and Canadians with close ties to the Motherland are seeing Irish interested in following the UK if it means they get their sovereignity back from the Germans and French and can join in trade pacts with the USA, in particular.
And Norway is interested.
And even Trump haters can see that a trade pact with N Europe and N America has Greenland in the middle of it’s geographic location. So Greenland and Iceland might be eventual partners and a new offer to buy Greenland is possible.
VP – I think Trump’s election campaign to withdraw from the US being global cop and fighting Forever Wars of Nation-Building to pivot to the China an N Korea threat demolished the viability of the Neocons as a continuing political force. The idea of the Ukrainians and Georgians joining NATO is a dead issue now with the demise of the neocons and Trump telling Euros that they will pay the price in defense spending for their aggressive drive to push NATO eastwards, not US taxpayer.
And Trumps goal is not to be so hostile to Russia that we drive Russia deeper into alliance with China, even though any intelligent Russian knows a superpower China is a bigger threat to Russia than any NATO threat, long term. Soros is a sinister man in the middle of the E European muddle, wants mass immigration of Africans and Muslims into E Europe.. It’s the partisan Democrats that invented a non-existent “collusion” with Trump&Putin, and voters, not just Trump have zero interest in fighting Russia over Crimea after 93% in a UN monitored plebiscite voted to return to Russia, or, with getting involved over a border war with the Ukraine over predominantly ethnic Russian areas that got persecution from the Ukraine Nationalists.
I just can’t get into soccer. Not my sport. I respect the sport and it’s fans, but it’s boring to me. Rugby is great. I’ve enjoyed being at a cricket match. Even Scottish-Canadian curling is fun to watch (and play). But not soccer. It could be, but it needs rule changes like eliminating the offsides rule to increase organized attacks with better scoring odds and eliminate stall plays and those off-putting flops.
In a few more weeks, pro tennis comes to life again. At this point, Rafa is the true #1, better than vegan Djokovic. Who might not win much of anything in 2020 now that people know he is weaker, longer to recover from injury, and his stamina fades by the 3rd set. Feed the dumb f____ some fish, I say.


Wog Boy Says:

Alison, sorry for late reply, Dimple got better of me, it’s a jolly season:)
Yes, so far so good with one game in the hand, too early for celebration, YNWA.


Wog Boy Says:

CF1, very good points, all factual.

As for soccer, for me it was social thing (I was and am basketball and rugby man), you go with your mates to game, afterwards to pub and teasing ones that lost over the bottle(s) of Riesling wine cut with pressurised soda water.
English premier league was something different, the vibe, passion and never die attitude, three things were religiously watched in my house back in the days, Final of the FA cup, Oxford vs Cambridge rowing race and San Remo festival (me and my father were not happy with the last one, but women ruled;)
I still don’t know why we got hooked for that rowing race, maybe scenery, young people efforts, sunny day and English people casually strolling on the banks of the Thames or just having picnic.

As for passion for the club, you cannot beat this, and this was in Melbourne few years back, not even in Liverpool, you can see captain Gerrard on 0:45, todays Rangers manager, good man and legend:

https://youtu.be/Go-jJlGd1so


j-kath Says:

Chrisford 1:

There are lots of famous people from many nationalities and yes, Scotland is certainly one country who has played a role in the USA….Carnegie being amother – and loads of scientists and inventions in today’s world. When I stop being furious about the cheating Boris, I might make a list.

Meanwhile – don’t delude yourself – climate change is here. If you watch David Attenburgh’s series – you’ll be secretly glad and guilty that you are an adult today – and not be around for future blighted generations to blame.

I cried when I saw the following series – I challenge you to watch it without a feeling of guilt.

https://www.climateforesight.eu/future-hearth/sir-david-attenborough-gives-us-the-facts-on-climate-change/https://www.climateforesight.eu/future-hearth/sir-david-attenborough-gives-us-the-facts-on-climate-change/


Van Persie Says:

CF1,

Am not a fan of Soros, don,’t get me wrong🙂. Also not a NATO fan, due to their politics during the last decades.
If Trump somehow destroys the missils in Poland and Romania, that would be great. And Eastern Europe would no longer be obliged to pay money to US for that s#it and for other obsolete weapons, US is trying to get rid of. I am really sure, Russia is not greedy to have a war. Why do we really need EXON (US) in RO at the Black Sea?
Also think the EU needs to reform and Brussels would no longer dictate, as it does at the moment.
Just for my part, as Eastern European I feel more pressure from the US, than from the EU.
We have not many refugees in Eastern Europe, as theyr target is Western Europe.
As for China, I am really happy with the Huawei. Apple ist too expensive and I would have to pay for each application. 🙂
Am just exposing some pragmatic points.

Am just tired to hear, how the West is “helping” Eastern Europe without no benefit.


Van Persie Says:

JK,

regarding the climat change, I agree with you. It will happen.
Trump knows it as well, but you do not want to have panicated people or you need idiots from around world to sell good land. Denmark refused to sell Greenland to Trump, by the way ;)

I attached something interesting bout the importance of Arctic ocean, in the future:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wx_2SVm9Jgo


Van Persie Says:

One more, from NASA official Youtube channel:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XKYdSqf2ss


j-kath Says:

Van Persie: Alas this is one of the days that “youtube” doesn’t allow me to sneak in without signing up.. (and I’m paranoid about my privacy). As for Trump – yep he’s hoping it won’t be too obvious if he wins another Presidential contest next year – after that it will be someone else’s problem. However, it’s not all bad news from USA as some of the individual States are beginning to make changes.

As for the EU….the larger countries have the larger say – but what I like about the EU is the adherence to standards, e.g. food, beneficial rules for workers; strength of numbers and unity on many important issues.


j-kath Says:

Yes, Van Persie – I did read Trump wanted to buy Greenland!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He’s probably still wondering why they wouldn’t. For him – it’s all about money and power….


Alison Hodge Says:

Wogboy lol no problem, i dont like counting my chickens either, and we know Mr Klopp wont, but with a chance to go 17 points clear if they beat Wolves today, put it this way, i dont think they will get a better chance, only they can f*ck it up now , HAPPY NEW YEAR YNWA ;-) ….


Andrew Miller Says:

Still a best of 3 set tourney :) However, I think the final line rings true, “welcome to the future” – Medvedev made waves in the US Open by shredding the field on the way to the final and making Nadal fearful he “might” lose (until, early in the fifth set, he remembered he was in fact Rafael Nadal). Pretty fluid, but these guys need to get better at best of five sets.

Maybe the surprise of the year that Tsitsipas knocked Federer off twice – once at the beginning of the year at the Australian Open QF and now at the year end finals. I’m not sure what else to say as the big guys still have the slams under lock and key.

Maybe not in 2020. It’s been a crazy run for the monopolists of the slams.

Top story: Djokovic Cruises Into Dubai QFs, Will Meet Khachanov; Monfils Keeps Winning