Of Course Rafael Nadal Wants More Clay Events

Some valid points but some BS too. Can’t totally agree with him!

March 3rd, 2015 at 10:17 am

yup the agenda is showing.

lets face it monte carlo shouldnt be called a master tournee. A 500 serie is wat it is.
non mandatory pfff.

Nadal screaming and whining but he himself gave away presidency in playerscouncil. so what is this guys problem?
only commentating from sideline is terrible leadership.

March 3rd, 2015 at 10:42 am

He has a point about the injuries, but there are still plenty of clay tournaments. I wish there were a few more grass tournaments with a longer grass court season. We get one more week starting this year, but that puts the weeks of grass court tennis at a total of 5 (post-French Open through the Hall of Fame tournament)

March 3rd, 2015 at 11:05 am

“You can check on the tour (statistics) that many players have injuries…”

I think we’d all like to see these stats but they don’t exist. Not only that, but they don’t exist for previous years and generations, either. So even if we know how many players are injured this year, there’s nothing to compare it to. In other words, there’s really no proof for this claim. Nadal is talking about personal experience.

On the opposite end of the spectrum, Murray might want less clay events since playing on the surface results in HIS injury (back).

March 3rd, 2015 at 11:11 am

Can people read? ALL he’s saying is that we must protect clay events. That’s it. At a stretch- points out clay events are lessening and HC events increasing: a simple fact. But that won’t get the headlines. I know what will: Nadal demands more clay events. Even though he has not said that here. A lie of a headline that will gains hits from haters who care not for accuracy in reporting but more about b——g about Nadal.

March 3rd, 2015 at 11:13 am

@Brando……Deaf ears and blindness….:(

March 3rd, 2015 at 11:32 am

@Brando

Would we ever see this headline? “Of Course Roger Federer Wants More Grass Events”……NOT! I wasn’t going to elaborate on the “bleeding” one, too graphic for my taste……it rates up there with “Rafa Wets His Pants”…….. (eyes rolling)

March 3rd, 2015 at 11:44 am

Such a misleading headline but not surprising at all. He’s not advocating for more clay events just not to lose existing ones, like the Buenos Aires event – which was the subject of the question he was responding to.

Don’t become another TMZ with clickbait articles or a site where the readers are better informed than the content authors.

March 3rd, 2015 at 11:49 am

Roger only wanted a variety of courts and speed levels. He uses the proper tools for players to keep pointing ATP bosses on possibilities and better quality for all players. his agenda is for tennis and players. Nadals agenda is solely nadals

March 3rd, 2015 at 11:52 am

Where is this quote from Nadal that says Nadal wants MORE clay events??? He says the trend to convert clay to chard courts is a concern. That is a different statement. Careful how you read there.

Also, Nadal’s career is over in another two years. You really think he’s taking care of himself? Really? I’d look in the mirror on that interpretation.

As far as stats go, the information is readily available if anyone cared to look. Just look at lucky losers per tournament (i.e., players that entered because others pulled out). Add this to walkovers and presto – injury stats. Not really rocket science.

Hardcourts are obviously the most difficult on the body/joints. There is relatively no shock absorption for the joints compared to other surfaces and no give when feet are planted and knees/ankles are pivoted. Grass is bad on the back because you have to stay so low to the court. Clay has a higher bounce so you can stay higher to the ball that takes stress off the back.

Nadal is saying that variety helps. Having a mix of surfaces keeps interest in the game worldwide. Also not a difficult concept to understand.

Finally, the best players in the world developed their craft on clay. If you have a solid foundation on clay, it enables you to become great on other surfaces like Nadal, Federer, Djokovic and Murray.

This is why Americans are struggling today and Sampras could never win the French.

March 3rd, 2015 at 11:59 am

@sienna, why should Monte Carlo be a 500? Considering how many players live there, I think they like a hometown masters.

March 3rd, 2015 at 12:09 pm

True dat DA @ 11:49…..

March 3rd, 2015 at 12:09 pm

@Elina 11:59

You have hit the nail on the head with this one! Great sensible informative post.

March 3rd, 2015 at 12:16 pm

“Also, Nadal’s career is over in another two years.”: is that what tea leaves tell us? Folks- I think Jamie has competition in the ability to read the future when it’s oblivious to all including the players in question.

March 3rd, 2015 at 12:24 pm

Well, we don’t know when any career will be over, but I can see why Elina might elude to that. Our Rafa isn’t in the best physical condition when he starts playing tournaments on a steady basis. We will have to see. I hope he plays for many more years, but being an open minded person with what his past has been, with injuries and all…..I want to be optimistic, but I’m gun shy, I’m sad to say…..

March 3rd, 2015 at 12:51 pm

Emily
non-mandatory

March 3rd, 2015 at 12:57 pm

Pfff

Americans are struggling on every tour level, every surface and every court speed.

March 3rd, 2015 at 1:03 pm

Nadal got injuries not because of the hard courts but because of his stupidity style of play .How come Roger, Novak and Andy has so many successes on hard courts or play more matches than him has not complained about injuries because of hard courts. How lame. Even Jimmy Connors played more matches than Nadal on hard courts and never complained about the injury cos of that. Nadal knew less clay courts mean less chance for him winning the titles. He hardly win on hard courts or even grass courts lately.Ego ego ego. Speak for himself.

March 3rd, 2015 at 1:19 pm

People should read The DAs post@11.49am, tells people what Rafa is really saying here,rather than what posters want to interpret,seems some people are so ready to believe the worst….

March 3rd, 2015 at 1:27 pm

Sienna granted this is a Rafa thread,but you spend more time talking about him than you do about Federer whos supposed to be your favorite well apparantly?….

March 3rd, 2015 at 1:38 pm

I root for Djokovic, but I solidly defend Rafa as saying what is good for the sport in his mind, and not being self serving. Yes, the variety of surfaces, especially traditional clay, should be defended.
Occasionally, Rafa will whine that the O2 Arena for the year end championships are unfair and location and surface and indoor/outdoor changed…meaning he wants to win one and thinks it unfair he has not had an outdoors clay or even slow hardcourt opportunity.
Credit to Rafa, he has come close on 2 YECs, but had the misfortune to meet Federer and Djokovic in the Final when his 2 rivals were on their fast court A game and while Nadal played great, he was toast.
NO ONE! would think for an instant of attacking Roger for saying the perpetuation of grass courts, especially at Wimbledon was vital for the sport.

I also believe, like many, that early kid and junior player development needs to happen on a mix of clay and hardcourt. It’s vital. You can see the clay influence when not just Rafa, but Fed, Andy, and especially Djokovic play hardcourts.

March 3rd, 2015 at 1:39 pm

“his stupidity style of play”: lmfao- a 14 time major winner, career grand slam winner, 65 titles winner and a consistently regarded as a top 5 player of all time gets accused for having a ‘stupid’ style of play. Lol: I have seen everything now.

March 3rd, 2015 at 1:40 pm

Complete and utter lack of comprehension skills on the part of some ignoramuses OR deliberately misinterpreting what Nadal said. Follow DA’s explanation.
This is Tom Gainey’s fault in the first place with his controversial headline.

March 3rd, 2015 at 1:49 pm

March 3rd 1.19 pm. IDIOT!!

March 3rd, 2015 at 2:10 pm

brando, that statement from BK was just baiting. A “stupid” style of play that has given him more success arguably than at least 2 of 3 of the other players he mentioned.End of.

As far as Rafa whether it is 2, 3 or 4 years isn’t’ the point. Point is regardless, whether they continue to move more tournaments from clay to hard, at this point in his career, it doesn’t matter for his legacy. That is all. You don’t get that?

chris ford1 well said!

March 3rd, 2015 at 2:52 pm

Emily well said,Rafa has still won more GS than two of those players put together….

March 3rd, 2015 at 3:02 pm

Sorry meant Elina….

March 3rd, 2015 at 3:04 pm

@Elina:

I don’t think your an idiotic poster or anything. So i’ll preface my comment below with that belief stated on record. With that said my issue is:

I just personally dislike when anyone speaks definitively about the future. Period.

Hence the dislike of that comment. Beyond that small point though: yeah agree with pretty much most of what you have said.

Bottom Line:

Rafa could call time now on his career and universally he’ll be regarded with comfortable ease as one of the 5 greatest players of all time.

Beyond that: some what argue is 2nd or 3rd? But again they’ll agree: in his time he faced the GOAT and he undeniably showed how his Tennis skills matched up on that front.

He’s a certified legend.

March 3rd, 2015 at 3:43 pm

@chris ford 1

My post at 11:44 touched on Roger and grass…..we actually agree on that point!

March 3rd, 2015 at 5:24 pm

Nice to see Rafa letting us know the size of his fish.

March 3rd, 2015 at 5:28 pm

@Sienna……No he’s saying “I’m this far ahead of Roger in h2h count”…..bwahaha! :)

March 3rd, 2015 at 5:57 pm

Don’t you just love it when Nadal says something then suddenly the blood of some part of the population starts boiling?

March 3rd, 2015 at 7:17 pm

If players like Nadal are truly worried about the wear and tear on their bodies, they should schedule themselves mo judiciously and not be lured in by large appearance fees and exhibitions.

March 3rd, 2015 at 8:58 pm

Agree with most posters here. Complete misquote by TMZ, err TX. Disdain of anything Rafa way too obvious… Apology from Gainey is in order.

March 3rd, 2015 at 9:32 pm

If CLAY is traditional surface,so is GRASS!!
Why is there only smaller tournaments on grass than clay?

Halle[Garrey Weber] & Queens club have been elevated as ATP500
Only this year.

When will we have ATP 1000 on Grass ?

March 3rd, 2015 at 10:16 pm

^YES! Why not???? Too much Clay/Mud/Dirt/Ugly already.

March 3rd, 2015 at 10:27 pm

Unfortunately, $ buy everything, including the integrity of some reporters.

March 3rd, 2015 at 10:38 pm

^It’s a conspiracy!

March 3rd, 2015 at 10:48 pm

I don’t have a problem with more grass…. :)

March 3rd, 2015 at 10:51 pm

@Jeez
I find it hilarious over the years Rafa has defended Clay, and, yes, wants more Clay court events to prevent injuries, etc., but yet not said one iota about increasing Grass courts, which is very comfortable on the “Bod”. Funny…no?

March 3rd, 2015 at 10:51 pm

funny? is not.

You should send a letter to the ATP to increase the tournaments on grass, after all is not about the money, right?

March 3rd, 2015 at 10:56 pm

Or maybe you should send the a letter to the ATP to increase the tournaments on Dirt/Mud, no?
I am just voting for equality in surfaces, not because it “suits a player”.

March 3rd, 2015 at 11:13 pm

maintenace on grass cost much more tan hardcourts, you know?

Since late 80s, hc tournaments are easier and cheaper for the ATP and the benefits are greater for them, and you know.

March 3rd, 2015 at 11:18 pm

With all the money the ATP tour has your sure they are worried about $ in surfaces? How about the $ they spend in the past to slow down the HC and Wimby?
They can afford to maintain Grass as much as Clay, you know, no?

March 3rd, 2015 at 11:46 pm

I dont know if you are a fool or you want to create controversy, but grass is much expensive to maintain than clay and even more than hc and again, who is against more grass tournaments?
Obvously the ATP and organizations around the world want more and more tournaments in that Surface and why?
Because the profits are grater for them.
ATP is the same all corporations: to win money and reduce cost is essential to increase productivity, ergo hard court is the future and clay and especially grass, are seen as something from the past and it is important that these two surfaces do not dissapear from the tour. That is why the doublé RG Wimbledon is so special, even in these times.

March 4th, 2015 at 12:27 am

“I dont know if you are a fool”: is that even a question in regards to that poster? I think we all know by now he ain’t the brightest bulb about- certainly a bit dim when it comes to matters regarding his obsession Nadal.

March 4th, 2015 at 5:04 am

Just listen to him, he is right. His injuries occurred when playing on hard courts and have been nursing the same since. Note Roger’s back problems happened during the hardcourt season. Clay is tougher to play on but one can slide. It is a tell-tell scenario in this debate in the future. Rafa left the vice presidency because he did not agree with decision making. It seems all changes made today are in favour of Roger. That ridiculous time penalty. Vamos Rafa!

March 4th, 2015 at 8:06 am

Just as grass courts disappeared around the world so too will clay unless tennis increases its popularity. No one is changing their courts from clay to hard to defy tradition; they are doing it because these clubs have to be operating year round and the cost of maintaining a clay court is way more expensive than a hard court.

Perhaps Rafa should walk into a stadium during a first or second round of a tournament – any stadium where someone other than he, Djokovic or Federer are playing and see how few people are in the stands.

It’s straight economics. Tennis is at best a second tier sport in popularity. The 50th best player in the sport struggles to make ends meet and cover the costs of playing, while the 50th best player in basketball, golf, hockey, football (both types) and baseball make more in a season than every tennis player except two, and in some if these sports the 50th best make more in a season than any tennis player makes in his or her career.

There was a huge uproar when both the Australian and US Opens went to hard courts permanently but that’s just the way it is. Nadal is being a little self serving in his comments but so what? He just happens to be the best player in the world on a surface that is more expensive to maintain. Come back in 20 years and see how many clay tournaments are still around. Or for that matter, how many tournaments are still around.

March 4th, 2015 at 8:20 am

Without clay, real diversity and talent in the game will suffer. Tennis will become too one dimensional again. All the great players today have a great foundation on clay in their tennis formative years.

This is why we have a golden era now because great players realize this. One of the main reasons American tennis has fallen behind.

As usual, Nadal is right.

March 4th, 2015 at 8:47 am

Monte Carlo is deserving of a 1000 designation. All of the top players enter there except for the Americans. And they should play there too considering the success they had a few years ago against France in Davis Cup.

Views are spectacular and I personally like better than Rome or Madrid.

March 4th, 2015 at 10:04 am

Clay court tournaments outnumber all other surfaces and grass court tournaments are the fewest. So yes, Rafael is being completely self-serving IMO.

March 4th, 2015 at 10:16 am

of the clay 1000 events, i love monte carlo best, next would be rome, and my least favourite is madrid – in terms of atmosphere, etc.

March 4th, 2015 at 10:47 am

LOL now Monte Carlo isn’t master series standard? Only an idiot would think that. Just look at its attendees last year: Nadal, Federer, Djokovic, wawrinka, Ferrer, dimitrov, berdych, raonic etc. This kind of draw has been provided for years. It’s one of the few events outside slams that has a 100 plus years history. All this screams 500 point event doesn’t it? LOL- only a total idiot would question it’s MS status. In this case it’s only one thankfully: one recognised by all as a special prize chump.

March 4th, 2015 at 10:58 am

Without Grass, real diversity and talent in the game will suffer.

March 4th, 2015 at 11:02 am

Matador,
Grass is not “much expensive to maintain than clay”. Both require there own type of maintenance that comes with the added costs HC does’t need. Clay has to be swept ( Labor ) before each time of play( Tournaments several times during a match ). Regular court material replacement is required also ( did you see 3-4 guys digging up the dirt near the net during the Argentina final and placing it in the back court wear they were complaining they couldn’t slide? ), leveling, and, requires routine watering like grass. Grass needs to be mowed and striped routinely and the regular care you would need for any other grass as well. Before you call someone a “fool” make sure you can back it up.
I agree with Rafa specifically that turning a Clay event to HC would be a travesty. I for one would hate to see Clay and Grass lose there ground on the tour. However, my beef is he is worried about losing Clay courts and seemingly not worried about Grass, which IS easier on the body also. In fact, there should be a few more Grass tournaments on tour, and they DO have them btw….yes they are already built and maintained….saying only Clay is better on your body than Grass is ludicrous and self serving imo.

“When I finish (my career) I would like to be able to play a game of football with friends but playing so much on hardcourts complicates that.”

What is Football played on?

March 4th, 2015 at 11:21 am

How about adding blue clay events, a la Madrid 2012? I remember the players loved that. (Yes, I am joking).

March 4th, 2015 at 11:23 am

i too think a grass masters 1000 would be great. because for as much as players use 250s and 500s to get ready for slams, they also use the masters 1000s for that purpose: for example the 3 masters on clay and the 2 hard court masters before the us open too. queens or halle could be converted accordingly, especially because there is now an extra week between the FO and wimbledon.

March 4th, 2015 at 11:26 am

Lol the IQ is in the minuses with some here considering what they are suggesting. Absolutely farcical.

March 4th, 2015 at 11:28 am

@Jane – I agree, but I don’t see it happening as the ATP Tour would have to choose between Queens and Halle (unless they opened a new tournament to be the 1000).

March 4th, 2015 at 11:44 am

As legit as the suggestions for a grass court masters are, it sounds exhausting. Do the majority of players want to play all the clay masters, a slam, another masters straight away on grass, and then Wimbledon? It’s certainly doable on paper, but have the players suggested it? So many of them seem to skip the other grass court tournaments as it is. Did Novak play at Halle or Queens last year?

March 4th, 2015 at 11:46 am

Exactly what grass tournaments are being lost for Rafa to defend?

In fact Stuttgart just recently switched from clay to grass and moved before Wimbledon as a tune up event.

Football is played on grass. With cleats (convenient detail left out).

Without cleats, grass is quite dangerous. Just ask Raonic who required hip surgery after slipping at Wimbledon.

Also, grass (with its low bounce) requires players to stay lower to the court putting undue stress on back and knees.

I know sometimes facts can get troublesome as they tend to get in the way of a good story.

meh/mew, take your pick.

March 4th, 2015 at 11:58 am

elina,
Have you played Tennis on Grass? Sounds like you haven’t. Grass is only dangerous when it gets too wet. As far as bending your knees, yes, in tennis you need to bend them. The injuries occur because they play in surfaces that require different skills and technique, and in fact if they played more on Grass then these injuries your bringing up would go away. Its the adjustment that is causing most of them from one surface to another. Clay requires less knee bendin as thr ball bounces high. And cleats? Have you seen the tennis shoes they wear for grass? I would harly call them “cleats”. Football cleats, now those are cleats, and another story why.

March 4th, 2015 at 12:17 pm

I think that most of the people here and also most of the players agree: diversity is good! I agree with Rafa. ATP shold not convert the clay tourmants to HC event. There are enough HC events already.

However, if we are talking about traditions and diversity ATP should definitely increase the number grass court events. Nowadays there is grass tennis availabe on tour only for one month, and there are no masters events on grass, which is weird in my opinnion. Converting Halle and London to ATP500 is definitely a step to right direction.

I’m also a bit sad that there are no indoor carpet tournamens anymore. The ternd is clear. Even indoor tournaments are getting slower and slower. For example last year Paris Masters and WTF in London were extremely slow despite being indoors tournaments. I personally don’t understand this trend. Big servers are not dominating on tour anymore so why this trend?

Then what comes to injuries on diffrenet surfaces. I think all surfaces have their own pros and cons. Hard courts are the worst ones for the joints, on clay you can easily roll an ankle and the grass is very silppery. My personal opinnion is that HC is injurywise the worst one. Clay and grass are basically on par. Low bounce on grass causing injuries is just plain non-sense. You need to stay low and use your knees on every surface if you want to be successful.

March 4th, 2015 at 12:24 pm

I think that most of the people here and also most of the players agree: diversity is good! I agree with Rafa. ATP shold not convert the clay tourmants to HC event. There are enough HC events already.

However, if we are talking about traditions and diversity ATP should definitely increase the number grass court events. Nowadays there is grass tennis availabe on tour only for one month, and there are no masters events on grass, which is weird in my opinnion. Converting Halle and London to ATP500 is definitely a step to right direction.

I’m also a bit sad that there are no indoor carpet tournamens anymore. The ternd is clear. Even indoor tournaments are getting slower and slower. For example last year Paris Masters and WTF in London were extremely slow despite being indoors tournaments. I personally don’t understand this trend. Big servers are not dominating on tour anymore so why this trend?

Then what comes to injuries on diffrenet surfaces. I think all surfaces have their own pros and cons. Hard courts are the worst ones for the joints, on clay you can easily roll an ankle and the grass is very silppery. My personal opinnion is that HC is injurywise the worst one. Clay and grass are basically on par. Low bounce on grass causing injuries is just plain non-sense. You need to stay low and use your knees on every surface if you want to be successful.

March 4th, 2015 at 12:24 pm

I would prefer some of the hard court masters to turn to grass. Right now, we’ve got 6 ATP masters played on hard-courts: 5 outdoors, 1 indoors. May be turn 2 out of the outdoors ones to grass ? We basically have three hard-court Masters swings: IW and Miami, Tor/Montreal and Cincy, Shanghai and Paris. One of the three could be turned into a grass court combo. The most redundant one seems to be IW and Miami. This I say because the two masters are not tune-ups for a grand slam or a 1500 point event. The other two swings are.

I really don’t see why they would want to cut down any of the clay events because they are already not a whole lot. Grass is even more rare.

March 4th, 2015 at 12:33 pm

emily, nole’s been using boodles to get ready for wimbledon for a number of years now.

but in terms of exhausting, a lot of players play halle or queens already, and that’s been as such with one week less between FO/Wimbledon. so they’re already playing. i guess, too, it would allow players who are good on grass the chance to win a masters/more points? right now, all they have is a 500 and wimbledon and that’s really about the max they can earn on grass. by contrast there are considerably more opportunities to garner points on clay and esp various types of hard court too.

all that said, i guess the difference is that masters are mandatory whereas 250s/500s aren’t. perhaps they could make the grass event like monte carlo – a 1000 pointer but not mandatory?

i doubt it’ll happen though. with monte carlo it was due to its “demotion” – even though the top guys mainly play anyhow.

March 4th, 2015 at 1:17 pm

@ Jane/ Thank you for your post yesterday ( I was in bed already…).I have same as you preference regarding clay tournaments-I love Monte Carlo and hopefully I will go this year or next.Apparently view is amazing.

@ skeezer: Grass can be very dangerous.Did you watch movie ‘Happening’ of M. Night Shyamalan?

March 4th, 2015 at 1:24 pm

courban,
LOL! I cannot operate a lawn mower since then, ewwww.

March 4th, 2015 at 1:28 pm

Yes of course grass is more dangerous when it is wet. When grass is new, the water content is high and it is inherently wet and slippery to different degrees depending on recent weather which Wimbledon cannot control.

I already said the ball bounces higher on clay in my earlier post at 11:59 (which is one reason clay is more forgiving to the body).

I stand by everything I’ve said specifically:

1. Grass is hazardous during the first week (especially if the spring has been particularly wet) and staying low on the ball is difficult on the back and knees.

2. Hard court is relatively very hard on the joints.

3. Learning on clay improves your overall game and Americans have suffered for not making it a priority the way the Top 4 have in their developmental years.

March 4th, 2015 at 1:47 pm

Obviously Nadal would love the whole tour to be on clay but that won’t happen. Variety is the best. I highly doubt a bunch of clay tournaments are suddenly going to become hard-courts, and they shouldn’t. I wish grass had a season like clay does, but it doesn’t. It’s a tragedy that there are 3 TMS on clay and zero on grass. It’s too bad that indoor carpet is gone as well since that was my favorite surface to watch.

If Nadal wants to cut down on his hard-court play to “save” himself, so be it. But there’s no empirical proof that hard courts cause injuries. Plenty of players are mega-successful on hard-courts and aren’t having a ton of injuries (Fed and Djoker, for example).

March 4th, 2015 at 1:48 pm

Elina, the variety of surfaces encourages a well-rounded game. There are plenty of players who don’t have injury issues despite playing on grass or hard courts or clay. Nadal is injury prone and has bad knees. So it is up to him to tailor his schedule to lessen the chance of injury. But just because he has issues doesn’t mean the tour should change things just to suit him.

March 4th, 2015 at 1:54 pm

Rafa aint asking for more CC tournies,hes just asking the ATP to protect the ones we already have,i agree about adding more GC tournies though,as the season is way too short,looking forward to seeing how the extra week between FO and W,and what impact it has on the players the advantages or disadvantages as the case may be….

March 4th, 2015 at 1:58 pm

monte carlo is not aan real master.
Non mandatory forum aan very long time.

3 master to lead up to aan slam is also aan bit much they outweigh the slam on ranking points.
so logica tellen us to cancel or downgrade MC making 2 masters equal the slam. making 8 masters equal 4 slams.

pure logic.

March 4th, 2015 at 2:01 pm

Grass is also dangerous for the players,i remember all the injuries and retirements that the players suffered in 2013 at W….

March 4th, 2015 at 2:02 pm

I don’t see the players salivating for more grass events due to higher risk of injury. I don’t see them wanting a mandatory 1000 event that is grass added, or converted from an existing 1000 event.
I believe it would be very hard to build new facilities than cannot be utilized for other events save grass court tennis in season, and removing other uses at a facility NOT owned 365 days of the year by the ATP is not an option.

I think a few players can be asked the hypothetical and agree to it in theory. Sure a new grass event would be neat if not mandatory. Sure, why not have a 10 million dollar Indoor Carpet event (return of a Classic Surface!!!) where 64 entrants are guaranteed 50,000 USD just for the 1st round?

Realistically, what seems more in line with player and the business side of the ATP wishes is:

1. Transfer of the Year End Final from O2 arena in the UK to Latin America on a new surface, clay or slow hardcourt.
2. Elevation of Dubai to a 1000 event. And making Miami the second optional 1000.
3. Creation of a fully supported, guaranteed the big names will show up, new ATP 500 event in India.
4. Further reform on prize money and publicity the “lower players” outside the Top 5 get from the ATP.
5. And a more reasonable profit-sharing distribution between talent, reg staff, and the suits now getting most of it.
6. Rafa is not the only one wanting clay courts to be preserved, even expanded.
7. The Gem of Indian Wells. Many believe it a candidate for being a “super-Masters” even Slam level upgrade.

March 4th, 2015 at 2:40 pm

Roger moves with the grace of God so he could play on a bed of nails. And even then he had a back problem for the better part of 2013 and flared up at WTF O2 and the final had to be cancelled.

Monfils has been battling knee problems. Raonic has had knee problems. Pospisil has a bad back. Nishikori has had injury after injury.

Sampras, Agassi, Nadal, Murray all have back issues.

Just to name a few off the top of my head.

Nothing is going to change significantly for the rest of Nadal’s career. He knows this and it is too late for him.

He speaks for the game’s future, not himself at this stage in his career obviously.

March 4th, 2015 at 3:06 pm

“Plenty of players are mega-successful on hard-courts and aren’t having a ton of injuries (Fed and Djoker, for example).”

this is true. i don’t know if we can say one surface causes more injuries than another, but maybe we could say one causes different types of injuries. hard courts maybe joints more so? grass maybe back/knees more so? clay maybe back and arm joints – absorbing topspin could affect wrist/elbow/shoulder, and grinding/long rallies could affect back/knees. some players also twist their ankles sliding.

nole and fed havent been injured much, but some of this may be down to genetics. they both have a slimmer, leaner build. fed has superior movement, and nole has superior flexibility.

in other words, it’s not all down to surfaces when it comes to injury. it’s also genetics and scheduling/adjusting, too.

March 4th, 2015 at 5:18 pm

Fed has superior movement? Well, yes, compared to most players. But not, if we are to be honest, superior to Rafa, Kei Nishikori, Novak Djokovic, Muzz, Gael Monfils.
Roger is near the top, if not at the top, in court positioning and his footwork is stellar if not the best of his generation.

March 4th, 2015 at 7:17 pm

@Jane 5:18

I believe you are so right about genetics. I’ve said many times that Roger has the best athletic genes I’ve ever seen. After Novak got his respiratory issues taken care of, he too has been quite the healthy specimen for awhile now. How fortunate for those two. A 33 yr old Roger waltzing around all over the court like he’s 20 is amazing. You are right about their builds…..totally different.

I wish I could have played this sport so I could understand more clearly the issues of knee, back and other injuries relating to the different types of sur-fraces (Rafa lingo). LOL.

Bottom line on this discussion……Rafa isn’t wanting more clay. I don’t think he would mind more grass b/c you all seem to agree that it’s better on the body than hard court and he’s up for anything that’s healthier for the body imho…. :)

March 4th, 2015 at 7:48 pm

chrisford1, yeah; so maybe footwork? i dunno. but people always talk about how fed is ‘light on his feet’ so perhaps this helps him to avoid injury. that’s what i was getting at.

thanks okie. yeah i think it’s related to build too and how much weight the joints carry.

in the case of andy murray, he was born with a split patella. i think rafa has a genetic issue with his foot? maybe these things also contribute to further problems for them?

March 4th, 2015 at 8:03 pm

@Jane….Weight on joints? Yeah, I can relate to that……lol

March 4th, 2015 at 8:08 pm

Federer looks so fluid because he knows the best place to hit the ball and if his opponent is able to return it, he has an uncanny sense of anticipating where his opponent will hit the ball. Nadal beats him because he never gives up any point, moves fast and has more power. It’s Nadal’s power and tenacity that give him the edge. And the five year age difference does not hurt either. They are both great. I couldn”t have wished for two players to watch play against each other than these two. And then there’s Djokovic. A huge bonus. Tennis will never be the same again when any of these three leave the game.

March 4th, 2015 at 8:55 pm

chris ford1,

I think it depends what you mean by movement. If we’re talking about the mechanics of movement as they cover the court, then I’d put Federer above anyone I’ve ever seen play. If we’re talking about the ability to cover court distance, then Nadal, Djokovic, and Murray (as examples) can get to balls Federer can’t. If we’re talking about the ability to maintain functional balance while in a contorted position, I’m gonna have to give that to Nole hands down.

March 4th, 2015 at 8:59 pm

Don’t see don’t see the players salivating for more Clay events either.
Regarding all this injury nonsense caused by Grass, that is just cherry picking for your fav. As mentioned players get hurt on all surfaces. Not having the proper technique on any of the surfaces is going to help get you get injured. You need to prepare physically for the surface your going to play. This is what makes Tennis so special than other sports.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tennis_court

“The grass surface, however, is the most compatible with the human body because of its softness. “

March 4th, 2015 at 9:02 pm

Even Wimbledon agrees with this so-called “nonsense”…

http://www.wimbledon.com/en_GB/news/articles/2013-06-26/201306261372250074812.html

autoFilter/Markus, well said.

March 4th, 2015 at 9:11 pm

Where in that article they saying thats nonsense?
Do you really want to go into a link war regarding this topic? I can google injuries on Clay too, so? My goodness, the longest match in history was played on that surface. Guess what? Nobody got hurt.
Grass Courts origins go back to the 1800s, they will stay in the game, and hopefully one day get more play on the Tour. There are way more enough tournies on Clay.

March 4th, 2015 at 9:40 pm

@Gordon 8.20am 4/03
Alas you are right. Tennis is very much a minority sport in the UK, some way behind darts, lol. Of course Wimbledon generates mucho interest but quickly fades. Also it’s kind of part of a “Summer Social” which includes Ascot and Henley. For the posh monied of course I’m talking. B4 the results of the official Wimbledon ballot was out, tickets on the net were for sale from £500+
Might go some way to explaining our lack of success.

March 5th, 2015 at 1:31 am

@Skeeze
I laughed at the thought of my second favourite sport, rugby, being played on anything except grass. OMG the injuries those 14/15/16 stone guys would get, hitting the “hard,” would resemble a very nasty horror film. Pretty nasty as it is!
Football and cricket are played on grass too. In Winter the pitch being churned up is part of the fun. In fact the thought of cricket being played on anything except grass, makes me want to cry! But in USA most sports are played on concrete/plexy are they not?
I think some clubs/stadiums have a kind of “false” grass.

March 5th, 2015 at 1:47 am

Nonsense.

surface has far less to do with inkruipen then the player himself.
the ability to adapt and know limitation or pushing how far you can go.

movement in gras, clay or HC is different. timing is different. so there in lies biggest challenge for players to adapt.

but when you play to the limit and stretch every facet of the game, body and mind injuries are inevitable.

March 5th, 2015 at 2:11 am

@Margot…..Our grass on football fields is called
Astro Turf, I believe. Our local college just replaced theirs with the artificial stuff. I have always wondered what the indoor carpet consists of. Isn’t it still on some courts?

March 5th, 2015 at 2:56 am

In response to the the variety of interesting opinions above, I would add that understanding the concept of movement is as complex as understanding the concept of athleticism because both have many features which define them and of course, they are inextricably linked. It’s easy to use them as blanket terms but much more difficult to apply them to specific individuals. For example, there’s more to ‘superior movement’ than speed. Sadly, it’s often the case that incessant running is a desperate counter action to an opponent’s superior court positioning, accurate stroke play and court craft but of course they all do it, even Roger. You could argue that this adds another dimension to our fascinating game. Added to that, advances in racquet technology enable players to finish off the point from sometimes seemingly impossible positions.
As an aside, I would suggest that one of the reasons why Roger has had significant and frequent success against C Ford’s pantheon of ”superior’ players is because he has a combination of the requisite movement requirements. Also, just because he has a long- stride doesn’t mean he isn’t as fast as the Murray/Nadal school of tiny steps. That’s just an illusion. I haven’t seen him any more incapable of reaching and playing shots than the above re : autoFilter.

March 5th, 2015 at 4:54 am

Margot lol i wouldnt have put you down as a rugby fan,i always thought of you as been quite sophisticated,and rugby is quite rough,football would be my favorite sport other than tennis,lower division crap unfortunatly….

March 5th, 2015 at 5:00 am

Purcell,

I think lately (as in for the past 3 or 4 years) Federer has been slightly less capable than than those guys, but before that I couldn’t say definitively. For sure he’s played countless unbelievable highlight reel gets, and I would agree that there’s an illusion factor as well. Also, I think he spent so much of his career quickly positioning himself with such accurate anticipation that it has often looked like he barely needs to move play the ball. As he’s aged, I think he’s maintained his fluidity (and perhaps increased it through decisiveness), but I don’t think he’s quite as quick as he was. At least not in general. When I look at his matched circa 2006, he’s got quite a bit more of a scurry to him, and it seems like after every shot he hits, he’s back to center court almost as soon as the ball has cleared the net (okay, not really, but you get my point).

I absolutely agree with you that movement is complex and multifaceted.

March 5th, 2015 at 5:46 am

^When I look at his matches circa 2006…

March 5th, 2015 at 5:48 am

@Hippy
Well, you know the old saying, something like, “Rugby is a ruffian’s sport played by gentlemen and football is a gentlemen’s sport played by ruffians!” ;) 6 nations on at mo., bliss!
@OK
Ah yes. I’m sure we have astro turf in the UK too.

March 5th, 2015 at 7:10 am

Margot lol never heard that expression but it certainly makes sense,could never get into it to be honest,as i dont really understand how it works,where as footaball is quite simple,i used to love watching Thierry Henry till he retired,whom had some gorgeous skills as a footballer,and the good looks to match IMO,ah bliss ;)….

March 5th, 2015 at 7:43 am

@Hippy
To be honest I like watching most sport, if its played well. But I hate the “professional” fouls that seem to go on in football, much more than other sports. Hence quote I suppose.

March 5th, 2015 at 7:48 am

Margot yeah me too,when i was a young girl,i loved Netball,and had ambitions of been a pro at one point,maybe in my next lifetime lol….

March 5th, 2015 at 8:03 am

Yes nobody got hurt in the longest match in history because there weren’t any rallies. I wouldn’t be surprised if the number of aces/service winners made up more than half of the points.

Comparing football played with aggressive cleats to lawn tennis played with nubs is comparing apples and oranges.

Besides, grass is not the real problem. We’ve gone off on a tangent.

I agree that transitioning from one surface to another can contribute to injury.

However, the increase in hard courts at the expense of clay is the real problem (especially when combined with the evolution of the game becoming more agressive, racquet/string technology, etc. – which are good things).

Nadal is of course right as usual.

March 5th, 2015 at 9:25 am

Nadal and family have been pressing to change the WTF venue to clay as it would improve his chances to win the year end championship at least once in his life. It’s ridiculous to expect players to gin up their games for fast indoor tournaments all fall and then switch to clay for one event.

Truth is, Nadal is no longer the future of tennis. Players are increasing their skill sets and developing tactics to end points quickly. Less and less want to spend their life on the baseline playing soccer instead of tennis.

If Nadal wants to ensure a long term committment to clay court events, he should buy one.

March 5th, 2015 at 9:39 am

I’m surprised the author did not suss out any stats to either corroborate or refute Nadal’s claims about the ratio of injuries on hard v clay courts. Context is everything.

March 5th, 2015 at 9:50 am

@Margot 7:10

I played basketball and my coach was a woman. She always told us she wanted us to act like ladies but play like boys. Lol

@Elina……We have gone on a tangent…..The thread was wrong from the get go, Rafa just wants to protect the clay tournaments already in motion. But as per usual, anything he says gets blown way out of proportion…..another mountain created out of a mole hill……sigh….

March 5th, 2015 at 10:13 am

Geez! So much insight from Molly, it’s mind boggling! NOT!

March 5th, 2015 at 10:16 am

Thank you for your response autoFilter. I too am not sure if Roger has slowed. There’s been an assumption as time has passed that this is bound to happen due to ageing. If he’s lost a step, then he’s maintaining his ranking by upping the other things in his arsenal……guile, net play, bigger racquet, experience etc which makes him even more fun to watch.

Just to get back to the clay problem, it seems that individual surfaces can present difficulties to individual players and each surface, in equal measure, can make players prone to injuries. The players need to time to make adjustments and some have distinct surface preferences. It’s just as important for players to prepare for court differences and subsequently play effectively and safely on them as it is for there to be an equal balance of tournament surfaces for all slams, thousands, five hundreds etc etc. A player who can adjust style to purpose gets my vote every time.

March 5th, 2015 at 10:40 am

Molly : I’ve been reading some very interesting articles on court surfaces and there is a consensus, not necessarily a general one, that no one surface is more injurious than another. Style of play, predisposition to certain injuries and existing medical problems should all be taken into account in the ongoing debate. I agree with you that players are increasing their skill sets and that’s fascinating to behold. I guess however that not all players are able to do that.

March 5th, 2015 at 10:50 am

The headline is indeed misleading. It doesnt seem that Nadal is advocating for more clay courts, but preserving existing ones. It’s a fair position, IMO, but because of Nadal’s prior history of demanding changes that benefit him (2 year ranking…) it’s hard not to look at this as yet another self-serving statement by Nadal.

If Nadal really wanted more variety, shouldnt he be advocating for more grass courts? Somehow we never hear him say that.

March 5th, 2015 at 11:09 am

addicted: your first para is fair comment….sadly it’s just human nature to be sceptical and the stuff Nadal and his camp have come out with regarding a variety of subjects is now coming back to bite him in certain quarters…….oh dear ewwwwwgh

March 5th, 2015 at 11:27 am

^^^ “certain quarters” meaning Federer supporters.

Let’s just not limit the amount of self-serving bias to Nadal to be fair then.

March 5th, 2015 at 11:43 am

“Shouldn’t he be advocating for more grass courts”. Rafa’s complaint is that the clay tournies are disappearing into HC. He is not advocating for any one surface, just asking that the clay tournies be protected. With regard to grass, the ATP calendar is pretty full without adding more tournies. Yes, if they remove a few HC’s and substitute with grass that would be fine. But will they?

March 5th, 2015 at 11:47 am

Purcell, Purcell, Purcell, same old, same old, same old.
Give it a rest!

March 5th, 2015 at 11:50 am

Elina exactly,very fair post,im not saying Nadal always gets it right far from it in fact,but people are always so quick to believe the worst of him,or simply want to,thats why theres no point getting into it when people have already made up there minds anyway….

March 5th, 2015 at 12:39 pm

Exactly Hippy Chick, besides it’s laughable to believe that Nadal is feeling the bite from certain quarters that mainly stem from interweb fan sites.

Let’s not take ourselves so seriously please?

March 5th, 2015 at 12:45 pm

As far as Rafa and grass, he’s got two titles and three runner ups at Wimby (ahem some early knock outs too) plus a title at Queens. If it got down to more hard or more grass, he’d choose the green stuff…..imo. But this isn’t gonna happen, if anything is changed, the change will be from clay to hard surface. And Rafa knows this. Hey, my guy ain’t too shabby on HC either. I don’t how he’s done on indoor hard, but I’ll check it out. I mainly just keep up with slam counts, total titles and H2H.

March 5th, 2015 at 1:26 pm

Okie exactly,i wish he would call it a day at Halle,and comes back to Queens,i just think it was a bad idea to play there,and the contracts up this year i believe?it seems every year since playing there hes gone on to do crap at W,not good prep at that tourney,doesnt suit him,bad omen etc lol….

March 5th, 2015 at 1:37 pm

“If Nadal wants to ensure a long term committment to clay court events, he should buy one.”
Lol…classic!
Wonder which surface Fed would want in his backyard? probably all ;)

March 5th, 2015 at 1:44 pm

Rafa is done with Halle, contract over. I guess he will play Queens if he wants any grass practice. Let’s see.

March 5th, 2015 at 1:44 pm

Giles i read something quite different in that he is/was playing Halle this year,but i hope your right and the contracts up,and also that he doesnt renew it?….

March 5th, 2015 at 2:03 pm

HC. Halle contract definitely over.

March 5th, 2015 at 2:16 pm

Fed probably wouldn’t want one in his backyard unless it had a roof lol. :)

March 5th, 2015 at 2:24 pm

I doubt that Nadal will play Queens. He stopped playing there due to high taxes in England on his earnings.

March 5th, 2015 at 2:27 pm

^i’d like to see that link, nadal says he won’t play queens becauses of taxes? Lol….
All this fodder ralk about Fed and roofs lol. Fed doesn’t need no roof.lol He has won plenty of slams and titles without them. Lol. Nadal and Clay however are married. How many slams would he have without that one surface? Lol

March 5th, 2015 at 2:45 pm

Skeezer he would still have 5 GS,thats good enough for any all time great,then why is it not good enough for Rafa,i just dont get it??….

March 5th, 2015 at 2:48 pm

Yeah Rafa’s Halle’s contract is up.

And I don’t see Queens happening either. The tax rate is kinda high here.

I’d see maybe Halle again or somewhere else at a bet: don’t see Queens happening.

We’ll see.

March 5th, 2015 at 2:51 pm

‘How many slams would he have without that one surface’:

Well how about the 5 Grand Slams he has won for a start. Maybe more should he get lucky and face Federer on repeat at the business end of Slams. No?

5 slams without one surface: not bad.

Take one surface from Federer- say Hardcourts- and what do we have?

8 Slams. A difference of 3. Just like it is as present.

Let’s cut to the chase:

Rafa’s a winner. He rolls on anyhow and does what he does best: try his best and usually win. Haters going to hate no matter what. If it ain’t Clay it’s another problem with Rafa.

But really the problem for them ain’t Clay it’s:

Rafa handing their idol too many beatdowns. Making him a mockery in his own time.

That’s the real problem. It ain’t Rafa’s fault that their guy is easy pickings for him and ain’t upto snuff.

Talk of clay? Nah- Rafa’ kicked their fav’s behind in big ones on Grass, HC even indoor. LOL: i’ll show them mercy mention not those infamous matches.

Shut yer trap and stop hating like a petty idiot. Life’s short: don’t waste it b——g about Nadal cause he ain’t ever going to hear nor care for a keyboard nobody!

Move on!

March 5th, 2015 at 2:58 pm

I wish he would surely he cant go to W cold turkey,wouldnt be wise,i suppose with an extra week between RG and W it could benefit him who knows??….

March 5th, 2015 at 3:01 pm

I would still be delighted with his career even without the FOs,he would still have 5 GS,for some reason people fail to notice that,and see it as inferior,i suppose compared to Federer it is,but why cant he just be given credit for what he has achieved rather than lambasted for what he hasnt??….

March 5th, 2015 at 3:12 pm

@Skeezer, Elina is correct. Here is the link on Nadal choosing to play at Halle over Queens due to UK’s tax laws. http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2011/oct/13/rafael-nadal-uk-tax-queens

I don’t blame Rafa for that decision. It’s one thing to tax prize money won in the country, but they shouldn’t be trying to tax sponsorship money that comes from other countries.

March 5th, 2015 at 3:13 pm

^BTW, the UK made some tax changes so Rafa may opt to return to Queens.
http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/tennis/17469453

March 5th, 2015 at 3:15 pm

For those not familiar with the new-fangled Google…

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphillipserb/2011/10/14/nadal-declines-to-play-in-uk-tourney-citing-tax-laws/

As far as Roger winning slams without roofs, not this decade.

Besides, I’ll admit lack of roofs are not Roger’s biggest problem winning slams. That honour would go to Mr. Nadal.

mew? :)

March 5th, 2015 at 3:17 pm

elina & RZ
Thank you. Just wanted to see more info on that as I was unaware of that.
BTW, nothing against UK, but after reading all that…….that is one tough tax law! Hope they change it also…

March 5th, 2015 at 3:40 pm

Maybe he’ll play some Exo matches in the Hurlingham Club and even Boodles.

March 5th, 2015 at 4:08 pm

Nadal is getting more and more opinionated as time goes on, but I have to say that his opinions really reflect what is good for him, not what is good for the game. I don’t think there is more of a demand for more clay in the game. One third of all events is more than enough. This also reminds me of his dispute with the selection of a female Captain for the Spanish Davis Cup team. Uncle Tony comes out against her selection, then Nadal attacks her when she tries to defend herself. The Nadal clan is a bit too insular to be making recommendations for the game of tennis

March 5th, 2015 at 5:22 pm

@Elina

“That honor would go to Mr. Nadal”
Right on Sista!! Which brings us back to all of his
wins on clay, which will always set Rafa back to not being a real champion?? This is just crazy……A tainted resume??? There are tennis fans that obviously think this. How do I know?? Because it is brought up on this forum continually.
RICICULOUS!!

March 5th, 2015 at 5:49 pm

What is wrong with Rafa having an opinion, may I ask?? This forum is full of opinionated people….and that’s a-okay. Same goes for Rafa.

March 5th, 2015 at 9:32 pm

^Problem? Most of the time Rafa’s opinions appear to some “self serving”.

March 5th, 2015 at 9:47 pm

@Skeezer^^^¥ Okey dokey…..but I’m under the opinion that he isn’t……..What we have here is the old Mexican stand off…………. LOL. :)

March 5th, 2015 at 11:10 pm

^ok.. Quesadiilas, Enchiladas, or Tacos?

March 5th, 2015 at 11:30 pm

@Skeezer……We like it all…..but my personal fav, enchiladas!

March 6th, 2015 at 12:30 am

@Skeezer…..I was scrolling way ahead on my tv at espn and they are going to carry the tennis match at Madison Square garden between Roger and Grigor. You probably already knew this but if not, here ya’ go. I will be watching it.

March 6th, 2015 at 1:20 am

Okiegal its as i said to Elina Rafa doesnt always get it right far from it,so people are quick to believe the worst or want to so theres no reasoning,and no point trying to either,the context of the thread wasnt about Rafa wanting more CC tournies,he merely wanted to protect the ones we have.

I also said to Skeezer why isnt 5 GS good enough for Rafa when it usually is for any other all time great?and i would think any player would think that a fantastic achievement,i would think Rafa would too,but why take out clay which is a legitimate surface,but it all fell on deaf ears,theres no reasoning with some people so its pointless?….

March 6th, 2015 at 5:24 am

Why would any Rafan want to consult skeezer who is a confirmed Rafa critique no matter what he does or says???

March 6th, 2015 at 5:29 am

Brando @ 2.58 PM,

It is 9 slams and not 8 (5 US Open + 4 Aus Open).

Just a correction !!

March 6th, 2015 at 7:31 am

Hippy, Nadal gets it right the vast majority of the time.

Trust me, if Nadal had the majority of slams on hard courts with only one win on clay and Roger had nine clay slams, then clay would reign supreme for “certain quarters”.

Nadal complains about dwindling clay courts and Roger complains about courts playing too slow. Depending on whose fan you are, they are either looking out for the game or being self serving.

To each their own. You will never change that and reason doesn’t enter into fan debates.

In other words, the fans themselves are as self serving as the players (which is why I won’t call the players self serving). ;)

March 6th, 2015 at 8:21 am

@Michael: no worries.

March 6th, 2015 at 8:21 am

Here are two examples…

“LONDON — With the top defensive players increasingly getting the better of him often in recent years, Roger Federer would like to speed up the game of tennis.”

http://espn.go.com/tennis/story/_/id/8625576/roger-federer-wants-faster-courts-encourage-attack

http://www.tennis.com/pro-game/2013/05/federer-wants-more-extreme-playing-surfaces/47357/#.VPmqQvnF8TU

So the more (for lack of a better word) “passionate” fans will either claim that Roger is either being self-serving or looking out for the game.

I prefer the latter view (but it may just be a combination of the two). We are only human.

March 6th, 2015 at 8:34 am

“…looking out for the game”
Correct, it is well know the court surfaces slowed down FIRST, we all discussed this when it was going on, and now it seems some of the courts on coming getting faster, balancing it back somewhat. Too bad though what they did to Wimby….

“Roger had nine clay slams, then clay would reign supreme for “certain quarters”.”
No. He would still have 8 Slams on other surfaces.

March 6th, 2015 at 9:39 am

Michael i think the point is why belittle one players achievements in favour of anothers?….

March 6th, 2015 at 9:53 am

Quelle suprise that Roger is “looking out for the game” and Nadal is “self-serving” from one passionate fan.

QED.

March 6th, 2015 at 10:08 am

@Elina 8:21 & 8:34

You nailed it again! I’ve often had that same thought about “if” Roger had the 9 cc titles, what then?? As Hippy says, all legitimate arguments fall on deaf ears…..on both sides…..Like you, I want to think all players are looking out for the game, but it very well could be a combo. I remember both of those links.

@Hippy…..Yes, this thread has gotten way out of kilter and taken out of context. But nothing new when it comes to Rafa. We can argue about these things til’ Roger’s Swiss cows come home, all for naught!

March 6th, 2015 at 10:20 am

These semantics result in one player is the good guy and the other is the bad guy. I think they have very similar motivations, but the title of this entire thread was trying to get a Fedal argument going. Nothing wrong w/ keeping a clay tournament clay, keeping hard courts fast, or anything else. If a player has an all around game, which both Fed and Nadal do, they’ll be successful regardless.

March 6th, 2015 at 10:22 am

Read and re-read the comments made by Rafa. Confused why so many comments have been made against Rafa in this forum.

March 6th, 2015 at 10:27 am

elina, based on the above link this is what Roger has said

“I think some variety would be nice, some really slow stuff and then some really fast stuff, instead of trying to make everything sort of the same,” he said

Basically he wants different surfaces, not just faster or slower. I think you have misunderstood the point.

March 6th, 2015 at 10:30 am

Oops…..I was so slow getting my post on….writing between coffee and morning hubby chat…..Skeezer came to the rescue and straightened it all out about the clay court “if” scenario…..good job Skeeze, we can always depend on you! LOL…

Giles, where are you???

March 6th, 2015 at 10:35 am

Not at all NK. Perhaps you’ve misunderstood mine?

I said that I prefer to give the player (whether it be Roger, Nadal or whomever) the benefit of the doubt.

It would be too self-serving of me to accuse a player (that is not my favourite) of being self serving.

Capiche?

March 6th, 2015 at 11:08 am

And also, NK, Nadal is saying the same as Roger in terms of variety being better for the game when he says and I quote:

“Clay is a traditional surface of our sport, we need to protect that. Sport is bigger when you combine new and show events with traditional events.”

Yet to passionate fans of both players, one is self-serving whilst the other is looking out for the game.

This is my point.

March 6th, 2015 at 11:14 am

Nice posts Elina and Nirmal Kurmar….

March 6th, 2015 at 1:28 pm

Rafa has 65 titles, with 46 of those titles being clay.

That’s 71% of his titles coming on clay. A pretty damning majority which is NOT in favour of being an all rounder.

I remember last year, when Roger won a 250 event, Giles came on and said, “Pah!” A 250 event, what’s all the excitement about?

Rafa just won Buenos Aires, a clay, 250 event. Anyone would think he just won a slam.

March 6th, 2015 at 1:43 pm

I would never belittle Roger to make me feel better about Rafa,and im not getting over excited about him winning a 250 either,but the two points i get p*ssed about is why clay is considered the inferior surface,and why Rafa is torn to shreds because most of his tournies/slams are on clay,and why even though 5 of his GS are off clay thats not good enough,even though it usually is for almost any other all time great?i would never pull Novak to pieces because 6 of his 8 GS are on HCs,so why do people do it when its Rafa,im not saying hes better than Roger only an idiot would say that,but the guys career aint too shabby either with multiple GS on all surfaces….

March 6th, 2015 at 1:55 pm

Nadal has 2 Wimbledons, 2 USO, 1 AO to add to his 9 French. That sounds like a great all-around, all-court player. Greatest on clay but nothing short of great on any other surface. Who else has a record nearly as good as that? Only Federer. And we all know what happens when they play each other…on any surface.

March 6th, 2015 at 2:14 pm

madmax, I will of course give you the benefit of the doubt and count you as one of those “passionate” fans then whose attempts to minimize Nadal’s accomplishments are purely looking out for the historical accuracies of the game.

I’m sure that they are not self serving. (Unless you are, and I’m just taking a wild guess, a Federer fan?)

QED

March 6th, 2015 at 2:15 pm

Markus exactly,he is an all rounder,not as much as Roger obviously,but an all rounder never the less….

March 6th, 2015 at 2:17 pm

“so why do people do it when its Rafa”

Hippy, shouldn’t it be obvious?

It is because they are, as purcell pointed out, from “certain quarters” lol.

March 6th, 2015 at 2:19 pm

So Nadal is not a allrounder because he’s won 71% of his titles on w1 surface? Neither is a player then who’s won 69% of his titles on 1 surface also then! Wanna know this one surface jockeys name? I’ll give you a clue: Nadal has famously kicked his butt on Ll surface. He’s made him his plaything on the other guys favourite surface. Not bad for allegedly one surface player rafa. Not bad at all.

March 6th, 2015 at 2:48 pm

PS: Djokovic has won 77% of his career titles on one surface also. I guess he too is not a allrounder according to the logic of the above idiot.

March 6th, 2015 at 2:52 pm

Well not to pull Novak to pieces,but one could say without HCs he has 2 GS,and without clay Rafa would still have 5 GS,but again why take out a legitimate surface for any particular player,we dont do it with Novak and we shouldnt either,so why do it with Rafa,why the double standards??

March 7th, 2015 at 1:13 pm

I remember that any clay court specialist could play all year on clay if he wanted to. I looked up that in 1995 there were 35 clay court tournaments and this year we have 22. So you can’t say that Rafa is totally wrong on the subject. The season is hardcourt dominated, you really can’t deny that. Why the double standard? It’s pretty clear, clay is not a real surface to some people.
But do we really need the irony, everytime Rafa opens his mouth and turn it into more than he actually said?

March 8th, 2015 at 4:36 pm