Rafael Nadal Says Maria Sharapova Should Pay For Her Failed Drug Test, Says He’s “Completely Clean” [Video]

For the record, I don’t believe Nadal has ever doped…

March 10th, 2016 at 11:52 am

You guy can´t talk abou doping!

March 10th, 2016 at 12:04 pm

Sure, I believe him. But that does not mean he is not taking a supplement or medication that may be banned tomorrow…

March 10th, 2016 at 12:09 pm

MMT, the rumours will always circulate around Nadal. Everyone is aware of them. There will always be rumours.

This interview from Rafa, I thought was quite emotional. He is tired of the rumours, and clearly doesn’t want any more questions about his recovery.

Please help me though. He is right. About Sharapova. If she was doping. She should be banned. No question.

He also said he has always been very open with the press, and he has. But I just don’t understand what the difference is between PRP and Stem Cell Therapy – which he mentions in his interview. Yes, I know what they are and what they do, but surely, they help him to recover from injuries more quickly – right? Therefore, is this not ‘enhancing his performance?’

http://uscenterforsportsmedicine.com/is-platelet-rich-plasma-therapy-blood-doping/

Anytime a new treatment is used–and it’s extremely successful–people are suspicious and want to know if it’s legal. In fact, one of the most asked questions is this: “Is platelet rich plasma blood doping?” This is answered in the above reading. However, how can PRP therapy be legal? As it states, ‘it is one of the best ways to heal sports injuries without resorting to traditional methods like cortisone injections and surgery and the side-effects and long-term recovery periods these treatments demand’.

But then, how can it be that WADA or the ITF don’t question this procedure. It is accelerating the healing process and surely is questionable?

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/undetectable-stem-cell-treatment-
could-be-the-wave-of-the-performance-enhancement-future.html

It seems to be a very fine line to me.

March 10th, 2016 at 12:14 pm

MMT, the rumours will always circulate around Nadal. Everyone is aware of them. There will always be rumours.

This interview from Rafa, I thought was quite emotional. He is tired of the rumours, and clearly doesn’t want any more questions about his recovery.

Please help me though. He is right. About Sharapova. If she was doping. She should be banned. No question.

He also said he has always been very open with the press, and he has. But I just don’t understand what the difference is between PRP and Stem Cell Therapy – which he mentions in his interview. Yes, I know what they are and what they do, but surely, they help him to recover from injuries more quickly – right? Therefore, is this not ‘enhancing his performance?’

http://uscenterforsportsmedicine.com/is-platelet-rich-plasma-therapy-blood-doping/

Anytime a new treatment is used–and it’s extremely successful–people are suspicious and want to know if it’s legal. In fact, one of the most asked questions is this: “Is platelet rich plasma blood doping?” This is answered in the above reading. However, how can PRP therapy be legal? As it states, ‘it is one of the best ways to heal sports injuries without resorting to traditional methods like cortisone injections and surgery and the side-effects and long-term recovery periods these treatments demand’.

But then, how can it be that WADA or the ITF don’t question this procedure. It is accelerating the healing process and surely is questionable?

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/undetectable-stem-cell-treatment-could-be-the-wave-of-the-performance-enhancement-future.html

It seems to be a very fine line to me.

March 10th, 2016 at 12:14 pm

madmax: Although this is a moral argument (and the issue with Sharapova is one of rules) one could argue that the procedure he allegedly underwent to help recover from his knee issues is (presumably much more expensive and not readily available to all of his contemporaries) is more unfair than the substance Sharapova took (which apparently can be acquired rather leisurely in some places).

But I would prefer to avoid the moral argument for precisely what you’ve pointed out – there is a lot of grey area and opinion wrapped up in the question of fairness. As for the penalty for Sharapova, I think it would be draconian, simplistic, and altogether way too convenient for the hammer to be brought down on her for this.

Let them drop the hammer on someone who was obviously trying to cheat (like Wayne Odesnik), not someone who clearly didn’t know she was cheating because she didn’t check her email. All crimes are not the same – intent matters and should factor into the punishment.

March 10th, 2016 at 12:23 pm

Problem is that all players are afraid of WADA so they avoid any confrontation with the organization. The only one who was brave enough to openly support “fallen” players is Djokovic (cases of Troicki, Cilic and now Sharapova). WADA should be accountable to fully justify every presence on the list with hard scientific evidence. Situation where if you take a well-established compound on midnight December 31st you are OK, but if you take it 5 mins later you are crucified is unacceptable.

March 10th, 2016 at 12:23 pm

“I worked so hard during my career that when I get injured I never take nothing to be back quicker.”

Yeah, as you guys have mentioned, obviously Nadal has done stuff to get back quicker. Does that mean they’re illegal? Not at all. I mean, if you have a cold and take tylenol, you’re just trying to get healthier quicker.

Anti-doping measures have been around for a long time now, before I was around. So serious question, why does anti-doping exist? Is it to prevent cheaters or to prevent athletes from harming themselves with unknown or dangerous substances? I can understand trying to preserves players’ health. But is drinking a protein shake cheating? Is training in high altitudes cheating? Is having surgery to repair your knee or wrist or whatever cheating?

Yeah it’s morally gray. But if doping is against the rules then it should the rules should be respected. As far as what WADA is doing, well, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.

March 10th, 2016 at 12:36 pm

MMT,

I agree – moral argument or not though – it is not fair that some procedures are ‘allowed’, and yet, by definition, enhance the performance of any athlete –

It is ridiculous, and becoming moreso in my view.

Wayne Odesnik. Yes. Exactly.

March 10th, 2016 at 12:37 pm

Ben,

It is not okay what they are doing. (WADA) It just isn’t. It is unclear, grey, hazy, muggy, maybe, perhaps.

How do you define Performance Enhancing? It’s important.

Honest mistake is a defence in criminal law. What laws are WADA and the ITF following?

An honest and reasonable belief in a state of affairs which, if they existed, would render the defendant’s act innocent affords an excuse for doing what would otherwise be an offence.

March 10th, 2016 at 12:44 pm

@Ben Pronin: In your post, you asked all the right questions and this is what WADA should have answered long time ago, but they did not. Instead, they have grown up into inquisition-style institution that is non-transparent and non-accountable. It is ridiculous that athletes are afraid to take routine medicines (see today’s statements of Radwanska, Quarry etc.) as they are anxious what may show on their tests.

March 10th, 2016 at 1:03 pm

WADA is often quite absurd. Caffeine is presently on the 2016 “watch list”. What a joke. So in the future a player might not be able to have coffee with breakfast? Was Wawrinka “cheating’ when he drank a cappuccino during his match at Bercy last fall? Already too many routine over-the-counter cough medicines, decongestants, and cold remedies taken by millions every day are banned for athletes as being PEDs. There needs to be more scrutiny over how WADA operates and arrives at its conclusions.

As for Nadal, the blood-spinning stuff he did, while not banned, was probably more of a performance enhancer and aid to recovery than anything Sharapova took, so why is it ok, but people are now calling Sharapova a lifelong “cheater” even though for almost the entire time she took Mildronate it was not banned? At most she took it for a few weeks once it was banned. Hardly a major infraction, especially given how little evidence there seems to be of any major benefit to taking it. For it’s worth, contrary to those who think she’s lying about not knowing of the new ban, why would she continue to take it if she knew about the ban, since it was certain it would then show up in her next test?

Another thing about Nadal: If he can prove the former French federation head is lying with regard to her claim to know for certain that he failed a drug test in 2012, why does he not sue her for defamation and clear his name once and for all? Perhaps there is indeed evidence that he’d rather not have come out in a public trial?

March 10th, 2016 at 1:24 pm

Any supplement can be banned tomorrow; any treatment can be banned tomorrow; hell, yoga can be banned tomorrow if people think it gives unfair advantage. The more important thing is that the day anything IS banned, you should completely stop using it.

March 10th, 2016 at 1:25 pm

RF, but in Sharapova’s case, she’d been using meldronium as medication for 10 years. If we believe her, then she can’t just “completely stop using it”. That’s not fair to her and her health. It proves WADA gives no shits about players’ health.

March 10th, 2016 at 1:29 pm

^And the Mic drops. Boom.

March 10th, 2016 at 1:32 pm

I think currently, WADA’s position seems to be any external substances should not be used to enhance performance.

Now Caffeine and Vitamins are also external substances which one could argue, are performance enhancers, but because they are found in natural foods, it is a gross over-reach to put them in the same category as PEDs.
Stem cell and PRP is different from this, but still does fall in an interesting category; they are performance enhancement treatments, but because the patient’s own blood cells from other parts to rejuvenate the damaged tissues, so far it is considered legal. This is not to say it will not be banned tomorrow but for that to happen, they’ll have to make the case that taking your own cells from your own body from another part through artificial methods is a wrong way to enhance performance, and therefore should be banned.

But one has to realize that there is no end to it: if research shows that having caffeine and vitamins can potentially boost your performance, one could also make the case that caffeine and vitamins (and all these energy drinks which players drink during the match) should be banned because, irrespective of whether they are natural or not, they are performance enhancers. So player X can eat a banana 2 hours before the match but he can’t during the match; you can drink a Gatorade 3 hours before the match but not after that, etc. It would be a ridiculous thing to do but it is conceivable.

March 10th, 2016 at 1:41 pm

RF Says:
Any supplement can be banned tomorrow; any treatment can be banned tomorrow; hell, yoga can be banned tomorrow if people think it gives unfair advantage. The more important thing is that the day anything IS banned, you should completely stop using it.

March 10th, 2016 at 1:25 pm

Yeah RF, no one is disputing that! BUT, the drug – it was

a) under a different name – how could she know this?
b)unfair advantage, now there is the thing!

PRP?

Stem Cell therapy? That IS an advantage to any player?

Surely?

Too many grey areas and too many classes where the distinction is just not clear.

March 10th, 2016 at 1:45 pm

RF, why is supplements that can be found in food OK, but HGH and IGF1 and blood doping and all that stuff is illegal? Growth hormones are generated by our bodies. Blood doping is just that, using your own blood. PRP is using platelets from your own body. Is this not natural? Is condensing nutrients into a pill any different than that other stuff? I really don’t think it is. Is it more dangerous? Quite possibly, and that’s what we should be concerned with.

March 10th, 2016 at 1:54 pm

Clenbuterol steaks are okay, I think.
Sorry, couldn’t help it.

March 10th, 2016 at 2:03 pm

@BP

> RF, why is supplements that can be found in food OK, but > HGH and IGF1 and blood doping and all that stuff is illegal?

I see your point but see this: Imagine that person A’s diet may enhance his performance more than person B’s because he has certain natural nutrients in his diet. May be vegetarian diet from the perspective of nutrition value is inferior to non-vegetarian diet. If this is true (hypothetically speaking), then does the person who eats a non-vegetarian diet have an advantage over the vegetarian ? Absolutely. Does that mean eating meat should be considered illegal because it gives illegal advantage ? In a world where 99% of the people have turned to vegetarianism, it would make sense, most people will abide by it, and it would be enforceable. But in the world today, it won’t be.

I’ve constructed this hypothetical case to showcase the difficulty and making a coherent and workable all-encompassing doping framework.

March 10th, 2016 at 2:05 pm

By the same token, do we ban players over 6’5 because it’s not fair they can serve out of trees?

Everyone is born with inherent advantages and disadvantages, physiologically speaking. Djokovic can’t eat gluten. In fact, by omitting gluten from his diet, his physicality and therefore performance is enhanced. Do we make it a requirement to eat gluten, then? Or do we ban everyone from eating gluten?

We can go back and forth all day and I agree that it’s extremely hard to create an all-encompassing doping framework, as you put it.

But that’s why, imo, instead of wasting time and money on “catching cheaters”, WADA and other organizations would be better served in researching all of these external enhancements and making them safe for athletes, and hell all people, to consume with little to no adverse side effects. Everyone is allowed to take tylenol. It works quite well when you have a headache. But it can still obviously be dangerous if you take too much, as with any medications. But it’s as safe as can be given what it’s used for. Why not apply the same research to PEDs?

March 10th, 2016 at 2:15 pm

@ Madmax

Sorri to contradict you but ignorance of the law is never a justification. (4 Detectives in my family).

That said, an honest mistake may mitigate the consequences of breaking the law.

I learned that personally on a rainy, blowy day when I legally parked outside a building where Walter had to go for an appointment. I locked the car and did a couple of fast bits of shopping nearby. When I got back I had a parking offense ticket on my window (totally soaken) for £100 offense because my Tax Disk wasn’t displayed clearly.

It had slipped out of the pocket and was lying on the ledge and you couldn’t see it because it had dropped on to the ledge.

I appealed, was told I ought to have ensured my disc was secure….irrespective of conditions…finally I got a reduced fine.

March 10th, 2016 at 2:20 pm

RF, caffeine is in fact now on the WADA watch list (which just proves how absurd their process is and how subjective claims of performance enhancement can be).

All athletes do what they can to aid recovery time, ease pain for nagging injuries (back pain etc.). Sure most do it within the rules, but some banned substances are often natural and over-the-counter things that millions routinely take and can’t reasonably be put in the truly unethical PED category. WADA certainly over-reaches with regard to many substances it claims are PEDs.

Radwanska today said when she gets ill she is afraid to use anything other than aspirin for fear some other medicine (even if just over-the-counter cold or flu stuff) may contain a banned substance. That is truly a ridiculous situation for athletes to be put in, and it is certainly not looking out for their health.

March 10th, 2016 at 2:50 pm

When the Arrogant One returns from his pre-planned injury and the subsequent miraculous recovery, you should ask him about drugs.

#whyme

March 10th, 2016 at 3:02 pm

Some intersting comments from heavyweight politicians, Lavrov is saying the same as the doctor who discovered Meldonium, that they shouldn’t have put Meldonium on the list at the first place, since there is no proof it PED and he is asking WADA to come out clean with their research, results and why did they declare Meldonium PED!
You will have to use google translate:

http://www.rts.rs/page/sport/sr/story/38/Tenis/2240773/Lavrov%3A+Nije+
trebalo+zabranjivati+meldonijum.html

March 10th, 2016 at 3:04 pm

No. Ben. We put the Giants in their own category, remember?

Idealistically speaking, I agree your opinion about this:

“But that’s why, imo, instead of wasting time and money on “catching cheaters”, WADA and other organizations would be better served in researching all of these external enhancements and making them safe for athletes, and hell all people, to consume with little to no adverse side effects.”

In addition to safety, and protecting our young, as a main point, there is also this, imo:

SportsDoc March 8, 2016 at 6:14 am
“Dear Che: The fundamental issue is a level playing field for all competitors in all elite sport. This is essential to maintain or else all elite sport competition is tainted. All elite athletes train extremely hard and devote years to their sport so that they may compete with the best. We must maintain the principle of fair competition for all; otherwise these important events will be forever tainted.”

The above quote is taken from the comment section under this well referenced write-up on meldonium:
https://jakegshelley.wordpress.com/2016/03/03/what-is-melodoniummildronate/

And those are the goals. But how to get there? That’s the question.

March 10th, 2016 at 3:15 pm

I don’t believe a level playing field is even remotely possible. Especially in tennis, when only a handful of the top players make a lot of money (strictly focusing on prize money, not endorsements) that affords them giant entourages of coaches and physios and doctors and so on. Then the rest of the tour is left fighting for scraps, barely breaking even with flights and hotels let alone being able to afford the best physios and doctors to surround themselves with.

Federer tears his meniscus and immediately has surgery, no problem. You think Dustin Brown, currently ranked 100, could afford that so easily? He regularly plays challengers, the 100th ranked player in the world! Is that a level playing field?

March 10th, 2016 at 3:29 pm

I took a Performance Enhancing Treatment once:
I was having pain & stiffness in my leg, and was slow to recover from matches.
So I saw a good doctor who cut into my knee and inserted a substance… What was it now, a ‘popliteal tendon’ taken out of a dead person’s leg… Screwed it into the spot where my ACL ligament should have been, and lo & behold 12 months later my tennis game was better than ever!
Actually, I’m ashamed to say I’ve now had the same Performance Enhancing procedure done twice, one on each knee…
I guess that would make me a repeat offender, No?
;)

March 10th, 2016 at 3:46 pm

Nadal put it succinctly and correctly, “Sharapova should be punished.” No need for any additional qualifying statements. If you want a clean sport, punish those who break the rules.

March 10th, 2016 at 3:48 pm

Yeah, I meant idealistically on both points, yours and other one, Ben.

But I think the author of that link I posted, Jake Shelley, not only explains Meldonium well but has some good points on what to do at the end of his write-up:
“I hope this article goes some way into showing how a substance can be added to WADA list of prohibited substances. It is clear to me that WADA is underfunded and is currently fighting a losing battle. They need a better network of intelligence so that they can more quickly identify the new substances that athletes are using/misusing. There should be better channels for anonymous athlete informants. Then they need more manpower in the laboratories so that tests can be developed more quickly. Adding substances to the banned list just once a year, on January 1st, is not enough. They should be added as soon as there is even an indication of a performance enhancing effect, or else the drug cheats will always be one step ahead, in their ever-changing, ever-expanding “grey area”.”

The way it is, nothing is fair. The richer you are; the more you can buy in marginal gains or buy your way out of a jam, if needed. You can afford doctors, therapists, chefs, trainers, 3 coaches…ect… But a guy like Dreddy is a purist, artist, existentialist — and doesn’t play the same game or think as the usual competitor! And I’m glad of it.

March 10th, 2016 at 3:58 pm

that’s true ben. there will always be unfair advantages.
especially in today’s day and age,
when sports is – perhaps above all, to some anyhow – big business.
let’s not fool ourselves.

March 10th, 2016 at 4:32 pm

J-Kath “Sorri to contradict you but ignorance of the law is never a justification. (4 Detectives in my family).”

===================
Sorri from a different perspective. What you said is a slogan beloved by cops the world over. It is a slogan about a condition that is legally enforceable on both sides of the Atlantic. But doesn’t stand up well to scrutiny.
Lawyers make a handsome living prosecuting and defending against law violation questions when the laws and regs are so complex and numerous and often contradictory that lawyers themselves err. And those lawyers need several rungs of appeals courts set up basically because law and regs are not universally known and agreed to by lawyers extensively educated in the law.

You will note that the State does not scrap math and sciences to use the time to educate students in all the tort apps, small business laws and regs, zoning regs, criminal law, labor law, international law, etc.. And they would need all that time over 12 years gained by scrapping math and science to produce students NOT ignorant of the law.

Lavrenti Beria, referencing the early Soviet way to make a law or reg to cover everything and in consequence making it so complex a system it was incomprehensible to the average person – told Comrade Stalin this “ignorance of the law is no excuse” was a great advantage to the power and control of the masses. “Show me the person, Comrade, and I simply have to find the laws each person violates applies to your target. They will be in jail or in the ground and no problem to you again – all done legally.”

Maria’s case is more straighforward than Troicki’s or Cilic’s – it’s banned, its banned – but still illustrative of the individual to fully understand each and every law, task, reg government, their employer, and their employer’s regulators expect each person to know perfectly – or they are culpable.
And authority loves the power it gives them. I got told by a small business inspector that he expected full obedience to his outside the regs whims, or he would find a couple dozen laws and regs most businesses are guilty of not following – and shut us down. A cop gets ticked off at a motorist and writes up 37 vehicle violations. Mini-Stalins in action.
It goes on outside drug testing – in 2012 Djokovic had his shoes, racket, color code compliance all checked on and passed a week before Wimbledon. After a week of practice, a 2nd official came in day before Djokovic’s 3rd round match and said his shoes were “illegal” though they were used the year before and passed one official who ruled OK – because he was a higher ranking official and was acting on a complaint about Addidas having rubber on a portion of the shoe size after a fan complained seeing a picture.
Djokovic complained, to no avail, then went running around to find an alternate shoe. A buddy had same size feet and wore Nikes Djokovic thought might work, called Addidas and they blessed off him wearing substitute Nikes as long as the swoosh was taped over. The replacement shoes didn’t work well, Djokovic took a lot of slips and falls and lost his confidence he could play at his best.

With Sharapova, as others have said so well, she wasn’t trying to hide anything, somebody failed to do their job and tell her to stop. Apparantly, drug use forms the players detail and sign are not read by anyone. Apparantly, with all her other demands, and the complexity WADA has created – she like most top players relied on a team member to track WADA requirements and ensure Maria was OK. That person failed.
Now we are hearing that her use was at such low dosages that doctors are saying it would have no PED effect.

March 10th, 2016 at 5:43 pm

Chrisford1

I’m off to bed…read tomorrow…(11.28pm my time).

March 10th, 2016 at 6:29 pm

Rafa don’t have to justified himself anymore..he did that a lot in the past..if anyone got something against him then bring it forward..it’s coward to only fired empty bullet..and it happened for years now..

March 10th, 2016 at 8:20 pm

Both Sharapova and WADA know what happened and they know what they are doing. The way this announcement was allowed, nicely packaged etc. looks to me like something to allow Sharapova not to look too bad. This packaging looks too good to be that true and that simple (forgetting to click a link). I wonder if this would have been the same route for some other people.

March 10th, 2016 at 8:31 pm

Andy’s “take”:
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/mar/10/maria-sharapova-andy-murray-ban-drugs-test-meldonium

Very similar to Rafa’s.

March 11th, 2016 at 1:45 am

@ ChrisFord1

Precedent plays a large part in the law as combatants can move from conciliation services to court and several layers of appeals….and can go all the way to the EU Supreme Court and/or its equivalent in other areas of the world….goes way beyond what the police say or do.

You have introduced a whole melee of situations and possibilities and outcomes to use as a measurement in Maria’s case when in fact the main component of it is relatively simple.

She confirmed she had been taking a banned “drug” for close to one month. What penalty should she receive? 3-6 months ban? End of story.

However, taking he same drug for ten years on a regular basis, allegedly for health reasons, is where the situation becomes complicated. Other posters have commented, for and against – 4 out of 5 top players have given their view: Serena and Nole sympathetic. Rafa and Andy are not.
K

March 11th, 2016 at 4:57 am

I wonder what Roger thinks,as he said anything yet?….

March 11th, 2016 at 5:18 am

^Has not as duh^….

March 11th, 2016 at 5:18 am

^^ it is indeed very interesting, that Roger did not say anything yet. He’s the most diplomat in that matter at the moment.

March 11th, 2016 at 5:28 am

Read your response. J-Kath, you are right in the things you said or they were opinions that were backed in solid logic.
I’m thinking min 6 months, more likely a year..what Troicki got. If they give her less than the little fish who got nabbed (and there are not many of them), it would create a lot of rancor about favoritism.
Federer hasn’t commented, but last time he was harder on Troicki than Muzz was, and Andy thought Troicki deserved more than a year suspension.

******’One thing I return back to is what I think is a valid observation that on top of she and her team somehow being oblivious to this – Sharapova’s social isolation might have been a factor. I say this because from the people I’ve known, the grapevine at firms just about always picks up the important changes and colleagues discuss them – with many if not most who “missed the email” from the boss, budget director, on austerity, bonuses, layoffs, new national regs.
Sharapova had no circle of players or staff she was tight with that might have had her back in this. Given her a heads up,

March 11th, 2016 at 5:45 am

@ Chrisford1

Thanks for your response. Yes, Maria does not appear to have the friendliest of relationships – Grigor should have stepped in…(for the sake of auld lang syne).

The missed email from the “Boss” – oh yes, sometimes so bombarded with information that the brain goes on cruise control.

Cheers, K.

March 11th, 2016 at 6:40 am

I dont really know what to make of all this TBH,i really dont?….

March 11th, 2016 at 8:17 am

I consider PRP as a valid therapy Nadal has used his own blood components to help himself. It is not anything that is exogenous So i support PRP

March 11th, 2016 at 9:18 am

Moreover PRP is just only a promising therapy for treatment of sports related injuries. It is still a promising therapy not a proven one.

March 11th, 2016 at 9:20 am

Nits, what makes PRP different from blood doping then? PRP uses your own platelets and blood doping uses your own blood, so technically you’re not adding anything extra to yourself in both cases.

Also, I don’t think PRP being unproven matters in regards to whether it is unethical or not. If anything, that’s something that should be watched carefully or banned all together because the side effects are unknown. Again, anti-doping needs to focus on player health as much if not more so than just preventing cheating or creating a false sense of a level playing field.

March 11th, 2016 at 9:45 am

Blood doping increases the amount of red blood cell(RBC) in your system. RBCs carry oxygen so, the more RBCs the more oxygen, the more endurance you get. You don’t get that from PRP because it only has plasma where RBCs have been removed. It has the capacity to heal the disease but has nothing to do with enhancing physical performance. Nadal is fine and is not a doper. Sharapova, on the other hand, does not even have a disease that necessitates taking any medication for. Sharapova is a doper.

March 11th, 2016 at 10:48 am

@Markus at 10:48 am,thank you so much for your statement up there..you don’t know how relief i am when i read it..

March 11th, 2016 at 11:07 am

Markus, do we know for sure she doesn’t have a medical issue??

March 11th, 2016 at 12:11 pm

Interesting article, why did they put meldonium on the list of banned substances when there is no scientific evidence it is PED, just because WADA spent millions of dollars monitoring the effects of meldonium and wants to justify it or…?:

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/maria-sharapova-creator-meldonium-ivars-kalvins-quite-sure-other-athletes-are-using-it-1548769

March 11th, 2016 at 1:11 pm

J-Kath,

J-Kath Says:
@ Madmax

Sorri to contradict you but ignorance of the law is never a justification. (4 Detectives in my family).

That said, an honest mistake may mitigate the consequences of breaking the law.

I learned that personally on a rainy, blowy day when I legally parked outside a building where Walter had to go for an appointment. I locked the car and did a couple of fast bits of shopping nearby. When I got back I had a parking offense ticket on my window (totally soaken) for £100 offense because my Tax Disk wasn’t displayed clearly.

It had slipped out of the pocket and was lying on the ledge and you couldn’t see it because it had dropped on to the ledge.

I appealed, was told I ought to have ensured my disc was secure….irrespective of conditions…finally I got a reduced fine.

March 10th, 2016 at 2:20 pm

I didn’t say that ignorance of the law is no defence. :-)

I said there is the defence of honest mistake. That is, when you read it carefully, entirely different to ignorance of the law.

It depends whether the crime hinged on intention. Can it be proved that Maria INTENDED to take the drug for ENHANCING HER PERFORMANCE?

The dosage she took is crucial here, bearing in mind we know that between 1000-2000mg is the amount required for the drug to have any effect in terms of performance.

If she was ‘honest’ in this, then she has the ability to rely on this defence.

Criminal statutes often require a defendant to have a particular state of mind. Some crimes, such as statutory rape, require no state of mind and are punishable no matter what the offender thought. Other crimes require a defendant to have acted with reckless disregard for the safety of others. For example, a reckless state of mind might be required for a charge of involuntary manslaughter. Where, however, criminal laws require that a defendant must have acted “willfully” when violating the law, a defendant unaware of the legal prohibition may be able to claim ignorance as a defense to the charge.

March 11th, 2016 at 2:11 pm

Wogboy, your above post, I quickly read, and I think it is extremely interesting.

I will look at it again in the morning.

Are you saying that WADA are just trying to come down on anyone and everyone, regardless – just because they can?

My head is fuzzy right now, so I might be entirely off the mark.

March 11th, 2016 at 2:13 pm

madmax,

Something is very fishy and doesn’t add up, I do have my opinion, which is almost identical to my friend’s that pointed to me this artical and she has nothing to do with that part of world, where these particular medicine has been invented, and it is medicine that helps people, it is cheap, it is afordable to everyone over the counter and that is where problem starts..besides being from one backwood country that used to be part of the Soviet Union, as she put it nicely.

March 11th, 2016 at 2:33 pm

Re; WB link. That is the inventor trying to defend his invention. Hardly obective.

March 11th, 2016 at 2:45 pm

^^. Just to stress once more, I am no fan of Maria, never was, this is just a matter of principle, same as I am going to defend Kyrgios if I feel like it and I am not his fan either.

March 11th, 2016 at 2:47 pm

And WADA is objective? Where are the scientific evidence that meldonium is PED, after being 32 years on the market, suddenly it is PED?!

March 11th, 2016 at 2:50 pm

…and that’s why I have the most respect for Aggassi-if you going to take a drug, then at least do it properly with A-Class drug- cocaine.
…and here is music to accompany this..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwRvafqi_-U

March 11th, 2016 at 2:56 pm

Frenchie,

What would we do without you, you make every conversation much more enjoyable, good on ya Frenchie:)

March 11th, 2016 at 2:59 pm

BTW, how is your music going, did you give on it?

March 11th, 2016 at 3:02 pm

WB-Hi there-I had a bit of a break ( you know, life with 3 women, work….) but I just start doing it again.Doing music for some documentary film.
You know, there is Australian group called Tame Impala-it’s my favorite at the moment-very good
Other day you have been talking of Tasmajdan and remember disco club that use to be there..ah, sweet memories my brother…I miss hot summer nights in Belgrade

March 11th, 2016 at 3:18 pm

I could also assume, that they wanna destroy some drug factories in Est Europe, so they can impose the western ones…perhaps I am paranoic, but it is possible….

March 11th, 2016 at 3:21 pm

Frenchie,

I don’t know that group but my girls do, I’ll have a look.
Yes, that disco club was called “Cepelin” I was regular in late 70s, my friend was bouncer and we were getting in for a free, his nick name was Umpah pah, like that cartoon dude.

March 11th, 2016 at 3:25 pm

VP,

You are not paranoic.

March 11th, 2016 at 3:27 pm

@ Madmax

Too many drinks Madmax?.

March 11th, 2016 at 3:33 pm

WB, I Romania (donot know how it is with other countries) the “old industry” in almost each area is dead…People there have to rely on corporacies with leathership in the West. EU destroid it…so I would not be surprised

March 11th, 2016 at 3:35 pm

Correction: In Romania

March 11th, 2016 at 3:36 pm

Courbon – One of the nicer stories in tennis was how two tormented prodigies – with very different personalities and sorts of torments – moved past their demons and forged a solid life together.

On dose – we ingest or create by metabolizing it, minute quantities of poisons/drugs like cyanide, natural opioids, epinephrine….without consequence, or hampering or improving performance. Except perhaps the natural “speed” at the core of the endoctrinal system of most lifeforms that evolved to aid the fight/flight option needed to survive long enough to reproduce.
Our routine existence is to have this stuff ingested, made by metabolism, broken down by metabolism.
There is no such thing as zero tolerance in nature.

One big problem of athlete drug testing is it was created with a 1980s Zero Tolerance mindset. A swimmer loses two gold medals and a silver because he took a cold decongestant with active drug levels far below that which could conceivably impact performance. WADA insisted on “dirty test” numbers for cocaine, that were 200 times lower than workplace testing limits. Gasquet and Hingis would have passed drug tests for coke in just about any other workplace. And even at higher levels, it is not a performance aid…it is actually a liability to performance in competition.
There should be threshold levels that are realistic in testing…not the present WADA system, If Sharapova was taking a drug that would not assist her unless levels were 15 times higher, what is the ‘foul’ in real terms????
Yes, I know the hoary old comebacks, “Rules are rules”, ‘Ignorance of any law is no excuse’
She should of course pay for failing to heed notices that she had to comply with to keep working, just like Viktor Troicki paid for being clean but violating a testing rule.
But that does not mean that testing rules that are badly laid out shouldn’t be changed in the future and test thresholds that fall below any PED level during any projected competition should not be raised.

March 11th, 2016 at 3:44 pm

VP,

That’s called “Globalization ” and “New World Order”, it is same everywhere, handful of people will control the rest of the world, we are all going to speak the same, to dress the same, to think the same, to celebrate the same…what an paradise is awaiting for our grandchildern, I am glad I won’t be around to see that… like in the movies, difference is that this is real life and not a movie, sadly:(

March 11th, 2016 at 3:49 pm

“Courbon – One of the nicer stories in tennis was how two tormented prodigies – with very different personalities and sorts of torments – moved past their demons and forged a solid life together.”

Very true, always loved Agassi, with all his highs and lows, not so much Sampras.

March 11th, 2016 at 3:56 pm

CF1,

I still think that Troicki might had a few puffs with his coach Jack Reader, who is know for disappearing in the bush and enjoying it;)

March 11th, 2016 at 4:00 pm

I loved Ivanisevic….I allways was a fan of underdogs, Nole is the first Nr.1, which I really love

March 11th, 2016 at 4:07 pm

WB,

@3:49,
Yes, but at least those, that are from the “Western civilized world” should suck it up and stop complaining and crying that we come for their jobs…if they were greedy, destroid our industries and made us work for their corporations, then they should suck it up and support the consequences…emigrants, and refugees included

March 11th, 2016 at 4:14 pm

CF- So true.

WB: Viktors coach is Crocodile Dundee of tennis…

March 11th, 2016 at 4:19 pm

“And WADA is objective?:”
There not selling Drugs, that guy is.

“Where are the scientific evidence that meldonium is PED, after being 32 years on the market, suddenly it is PED?!”

I imagine its coming, as this is not the end of the story on BOTH sides.

March 11th, 2016 at 4:21 pm

Courbon,

Not wrong, that’s him, Jack Reader..

March 11th, 2016 at 4:30 pm

Van Persie,

Are you 1% er?

March 11th, 2016 at 4:31 pm

I loved during Sydney open this year, Viktor was defending champion and no one single time they put him on main court, Ken Rosewall Arena until final match with Dimitrov. That was huge and unseen disrespect so Jack, being an Aussie, gave them mouthful publicly and finished with “thank you for being so nice and allowed us to play entire tournament on the court next to VIP Bar, that was a privilege to play there.”

March 11th, 2016 at 4:35 pm

^^ for Courbon

March 11th, 2016 at 4:36 pm

Skeezer,

Hells angels await me ;)

March 11th, 2016 at 4:46 pm

“There not selling Drugs, that guy is.”

That guy, who is scientist btw, doesn’t depend on sportspeople but on tens and hundreds of thousands of patients who are using it for medical reasons, sportspeople are less than 1% of his market, and this is actually good advertising for him. It might be illegal for sportspeople from 1. January but it is not illegal for ordinary customers, see the difference?

On the other hand WADA depends on who ever gives them a money and has to justify it’s existence and probably to please pharmaceutical mafia because some minor pharmaceutical company from the middle of the nowhere is making quolity product that is much cheaper and more afordable than theirs.

March 11th, 2016 at 4:52 pm

VP,

Go with BANDIDOS, Hells Angels became too soft;)

Bandidos is the way to go, they have their chapter here, I might be able to enroll you as probation member, Finks are the second option:

http://youtu.be/OXX83InR3gQ

March 11th, 2016 at 5:06 pm

Lol WB, liked the link and comment.

If you would see me…I would look like a minion on a scooter

March 11th, 2016 at 5:16 pm

The strongest poison is kept in the small bottle, you know the saying VP?

March 11th, 2016 at 5:25 pm

Yes WB, this expression is globalized ;)
I guess WADA would approve me .lol

March 11th, 2016 at 5:34 pm

Good one VP:)

March 11th, 2016 at 5:39 pm

I doubt that WADA will put any medication on its banned list without any legitimate reason. Somebody mentioned that there have been no studies that show that Meldronium (Mildronate) has performance enhancing properties. That is false because there are: Here are a couple of those studies.

Dzerve V, Matisone D, Kukulis I, Romanova J, Putane L, Grabauskiene˙V, Skarda I, Berzina D, Strautmanis J (2005). “Mildronate improves peripheral circulation in patients with chronic heart failure: results of a clinical trial (the first report)” (PDF). Seminars in Cardiology 11 (2): 56–64.

Dzerve V, Matisone D, Pozdnyakov Y, Oganov R (2010). “Mildronate improves the exercise tolerance in patients with stable angina: results of a long term clinical trial”(PDF). Seminars in Cardiovascular Medicine 16: 3

March 11th, 2016 at 5:54 pm

By the way, you’re welcome AndyMira. Nadal is being maligned by doubters who don’t have proof.

Okiegal: I have explained before why I find Maria’s explanation very flimsy. This drug is marketed and prescribed legally for cardiac failure and myocardial ischemia. Does anybody really think that Maria suffers from those serious ailments?

March 11th, 2016 at 6:01 pm

@Markus,

First of all, ask yourself a simple question: How is your exercise tolerance when you have Angina? Second of all, ask yourself another simple question: How is your peripheral circulation when you have chronic heart failure? If you are posting medical articles you should at least read between the lines.

March 11th, 2016 at 6:09 pm

Pizza boy should stck to one sentence posts to save himself of embarrassment. If he/she only read the titles of the articles and what for, when and where they been used, he/she wouldn’t shoot her/himself in the foot, stupidity doesn’t have boundaries.
Those studies are about benefits of Mildronate on patients with cardiovascular diseases not about performance enhancing, otherwise WADA would use them.
Stick to one sentece, please, pizza boy/girl.

March 11th, 2016 at 6:11 pm

You beat me VP, too fast for me:)

March 11th, 2016 at 6:12 pm

You explained him better. My post confused him more ;)

March 11th, 2016 at 6:14 pm

@Markus……Still watching lots of basketball…getting behind on reading the comments. I am sure I have missed a few, sorry……

I still can’t see she has cheated for 10 years as some are alluding to……only from January 1st forward….

March 11th, 2016 at 6:23 pm

“…probably to please pharmaceutical mafia ..”
Ok, now its getting silly I am outta-here

March 11th, 2016 at 6:41 pm

Pharmaceutical mafia exist, fact, it is silly to deny its existence.

March 11th, 2016 at 6:53 pm

Yes U’re right Skeezer – is now OTP…

March 11th, 2016 at 6:54 pm

@Markus..can i ask you something?As i know you’re much more knowledgeable than me..a couple of days ago a former french health and sport minister Roselyne Bachelot said/accused that rafa stopped playing in 2013 because he was tested positive..i quote what she said “We know that Rafael Nadal’s famous injury that stopped him for seven months is certainly due to a positive drug test.When you see that a players stay away for months is because he is positive,not every time but very often”..can you explain to me what is she talking about?Or does she has a solid ground to said such a serious accusation?Thank you..

March 11th, 2016 at 7:14 pm

AndyMira, let me handle this self-declared smart guy who is condescending to other people who he presume to be poorly educated. Not all pizza delivery boys are stupid.

Have you read the whole articles yourself? Most likely not. I don’t want to spoonfeed you by telling you all about those articles.

Anyway, about the studies that you want: How do you want it done? You will need subjects to put into 2 groups. All subjects should be equal to reach a valid conclusion. One will take the the medicine, the other will take a placebo. It is fine for the control group on the placebo. But how about the other group that will have to take the Meldronium? There will be ethical issues that that any ethical medical board will not approve because these healthy subjects will be taking medications that may subject them to adverse reactions from the drug. That is not possible. If you review the pharmacology of this medication, you will realize its positive inotropic effect on the heart. It does not matter whether your heart is diseased or healthy. In fact, this positive effect if manifested through the healthy cardiac muscles because they are the ones that can respond to the medicine. Infarcted tissues are dead and cannot respond to the medicine. As such, this medicine will have the same effect on the cardiac muscles of people who have no intrinsic cardiac pathology.

Van Persie: People with angina from coronary artery disease will naturally have poor exercise tolerance. Do you think Maria has coronary artery disease? People with chronic heart failure do not necessarily have peripheral artery disease. There are multiple causes of cardiac failure, among them, myocardial infarction from coronary artery disease. Another will be cardiomyopathy which is also multifactorial. It can be due to a virus or alcohol or an auto-immune disorder. By the way, when you read medical journals, you should never read in between the lines. You have to look at the data and analyze them. Every conclusion you gather from a journal should have valid data that is included in the report. You don’t read in between the lines when you read a medical journal. It is exact. It is not prose and poetry.

My contention has always been that Maria has no reason to take Mildronium because she does not have an illness that will justify taking this medication. She is young and so active that if she indeed has those illnesses that need this medicine, she will be disallowed by her physician to continue to play competitive professional tennis because she will die.

March 11th, 2016 at 8:34 pm

Now to AndyMira: If Bachelot indeed said those exact words, she better have the documents to prove it because if she does not, and if I were Nadal, I will sue the h*ll out of her.

March 11th, 2016 at 8:38 pm

interesting piece from the NYTs

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/11/sports/tennis/effects-of-meldonium-on-athletes-are-hazy.html

one thing they note is that science can be biased, limited and misinterpreted. they imply this in the case of russia, but i think it stands to reason that it could happen anywhere.

the piece lays out that there’s a lot to be learned about this drug.

it will be nice when WADA publish their findings.

March 11th, 2016 at 10:18 pm

Yes Markus..i think this thing is getting to rafa and his uncle who called bachelot “an imbecile”..what i don’t understand is,why frenchie[some of it]and sorry mat4..very forward and has a very antagonised attitude towards rafa..they even did it in a manner that they were sure that rafa was involved in this..if you remember they even insult rafa in caricatur version that shown rafa was attached to the gas pump to his nose..but at the same time,nothing was going on to rafa..he led his life as usual..and he passed every test that he has to take..so..yeah..

March 11th, 2016 at 10:28 pm

jane,
Thanks for sharing, pretty much says that it is not quite clear why it ended up on ban list. The writer tried to be objective and factual.

March 11th, 2016 at 10:35 pm

pizza boy,

The internet is great, isn’t it? You can google, copy/paste and pretend that you have a knowledge of an university professor;)

Now let’s get back to business, can I have one large pizza capricciosa, one large napoletana, large margarita, one garlic bread …for delivery, please….and no oregano on any of the pizzas, I hate oregano..

March 11th, 2016 at 10:44 pm

I forgot to give you delivery address:

No1 Novak Djokovic avenue,
Mob 0111 632 526

March 11th, 2016 at 11:08 pm

@Wog boy,
man,you are spot on..this markaus dude delivers pizza for a living for god’s sake!how on earth this poor,poor fella know anything about tennis or doping?we need sophisticated,knowledgabe fella like you,skeezer,giles,sienna etc. On this site..not some illiterate,poor guy who delivers pizza,no?

March 11th, 2016 at 11:54 pm

@El_matador,

You sound like bulls horn ended up in your back side, it must be painful, no?

BTW, I don’t like the company that you are puting me with, I am slightly different..

March 12th, 2016 at 12:08 am

Yeah,of course you’re slightly different..that’s why you and your troll competitor skeeze used to stick one’s forehead in other’s back side when rafa was novak’s primary challenger,no?..ah the good old time when skeeze and wog were buddies..

March 12th, 2016 at 12:46 am

El-matador,

You are obviously in pain, go and see the doctor, he’ll your back side up, though it will never be the same, that is the risk of matador job.
Now I remember you and your nice posts about Nole, when you and your mates were running wild on TX, was it 2013? Well I was always my own man on TX, if I felt like joining Federer fans in 2013 I did so, since you were behaving so “nicely” towards Nole, you and your mates from that disused forum, not so permanent Rafa fans from TX.

March 12th, 2016 at 1:02 am

^^ ..he’ll stitch your back side up..

March 12th, 2016 at 1:06 am

Man,you’re just rambling now..what disused forum,what mates?..it feels painful being exposed as the lifeless pathetic soul who seeks life in virtual world you are and finding nothing else but back side(surely your most favourite topic) to counter with,no?..take deep breath,it may help..

March 12th, 2016 at 1:43 am

You are really losing it, go see the doctor, your brain is bleeding now, not just the back side, that one is gone, too late now.

March 12th, 2016 at 1:47 am

“felt like joining federer fans in 2013”..and rafa fans whenever he was injured and roger was novak’s ‘enemy’..coincidence,no?…

March 12th, 2016 at 1:55 am

No, that is called being pragmatic, but you wouldn’t understand that, you sound badly hurt, emotionally and physically and you need somebody to talk with, you need a hug. I promise I’ll get back to you later, so don’t do any stupid things meanwhile, promise? It is saturday night here and I am going out.

BTW, I noticed you are my big fan, you’re been following me closely on TX all those years, I love you too;)

March 12th, 2016 at 2:04 am

I follow tennis-x since 2007(when there was insightful discussion here instead of the garbage you provide here nowadays) long before you started trolling..truth really hurts,no?

March 12th, 2016 at 2:39 am

I will be kind to you, and try to open your eyes…
“Do you think Maria has coronary artery disease?” – this I don’t know, but this is not the subject, the subject is the articles you posted, and they covey essentially two things:
1. Studies that were done in
2. Certain conditions!
Now the results of these studies are valid only in those conditions, if you begin to generalize from something that is so specific you will find yourself falling in what is known as Hasty generalization (see link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hasty_generalization)

“People with chronic heart failure do not necessarily have peripheral artery disease” – I never said that, as I specified above the article refers exactly to “Mildronate improves peripheral circulation in patients with chronic heart failure: results of a clinical trial (the first report)”- this is the exact title, as you posted.

“As such, this medicine will have the same effect on the cardiac muscles of people who have no intrinsic cardiac pathology.” – not true, this is exactly an example of Hasty generalization Fallacy

“ you should never read in between the lines” – again data is to be analyzed in the context it was generated in (), not poetry nor prose but reason, not reading between the lines is mindless assimilation, not coming to a conclusion based on your reasoning after reading the article is mindless assimilation. Taking article as is just because it was done by academics is called Authority Biass.

March 12th, 2016 at 3:07 am

@jane

You are perfectly right! :

https://www.ted.com/talks/ben_goldacre_what_doctors_don_t_know_about
_the_drugs_they_prescribe#t-788222

@skeezer 6:41 pm & @ J-Kath 6:54 pm

Please refer to the link above, you can call it Stupidity or Bias, but the facts are known for a long time and nothing has been done to put things in order, for this matter and the fact that most academic journals and peer reviews are directly or indirectly sponsored by pharmaceutical companies, it is more likely to come to the conclusion that we are dealing wit h Fraud or some kind of a Pharma mafia.

March 12th, 2016 at 3:08 am

Markus,

My post from 3:07 is for you.

March 12th, 2016 at 3:10 am

J-Kath Says:
@ Madmax

Too many drinks Madmax?.

March 11th, 2016 at 3:33 pm

haha – no J-Kath, fuzzy head from too much working this week.

Coming onto TX with the Maria break out is a relief, of sorts. Until I read Vps comments.

VP,

Look at my post on the other thread – read this – then make an informed decision. FYI

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/03/11/opinions/maria-sharapova-banned-drug-vox/

Wogboy, for once, you and I may be singing from the same hymn sheet – that must be a first.

WADA have a lot to answer for – not just Maria.

March 12th, 2016 at 5:12 am

and like you, I am NOT a fan of this player – I have grumbled many times about her gruntings – can’t stand it.

Just feel the unfairness of this situation – and if they can prove the dosage, then I don’t see that WADA can ban her – certainly for something – recklessness or negligence in not reading their emails, but looking at how they present them – in her inbox – seems a minefield to get to the information in the first place.

Can be argued she should have a dedicated person in her team checking these finer details. Can’t imagine that tennis players have the time to do this – so contributory negligence yes – but not cheating.

We will see though, won’t we?

March 12th, 2016 at 5:16 am

Madmax,

I was only speaking of pharmaceutical industry and academic and peer-review articles, not about Sharapova.
It is not my responsabillity to make an informed decision, as long as everything is under investigation and therefore there is no concrete information

March 12th, 2016 at 5:34 am

^^ for now it’s only speculation

March 12th, 2016 at 5:35 am

@Markus..hey..guess what?I’ve just read the article that rafa & uncle toni wants to take a firm steps against this accusations..and i quote”We are very tranquil,we will take legal actions against Mrs Bachelot,who is aware of what she says..nadal has never used doping..what she said is very serious,it’s always surprising to see such wickedness,it’s strange that a person can speak liberally knowing that what she says is not true and has no proofs.She may look for prestige,a former minister saying that it’s just awful..i hope she does not go unpunished,now stop,we are tired to always listen to the same music”..there..it seems they listen to you after all markus..can’t wait to see what will unfold after this..

March 12th, 2016 at 6:24 am

Anyone that acussed Maria lacks heart and understanding. And if any drug that is used for medication is legal ever since then would suddenly be included in list banned drug for so short a time, Nadal and Murray are just lucky. The medicines they take were not included, bec Nadal is number one in taking kinds of medication.

March 12th, 2016 at 1:28 pm