Andy Murray Confirms He’ll Play The London ATP Finals

that’s good. he’s had a bit of time off, and given that it’s in london, it’s not surprising he’ll play. i kind of always assumed he would.

November 2nd, 2015 at 11:06 am

Jamie Murray is playing too. Hope their participation won’t screw up team GB’s chances.

November 2nd, 2015 at 11:36 am

i don’t see why it should RZ, unless they’ve been playing a lot, which andy hasn’t, esp compared to his packed schedule last fall. not sure about jamie’s restedness though.

November 2nd, 2015 at 11:45 am

@Jane – he hasn’t been playing a lot now, but who knows what will happen in Paris or what kind of matches he’ll have in London. If there’s anything like the Fed/Wawrinka match, it could really screw up Team GB’s chances.

I’m keeping my fingers crossed that neither Murray brother has long matches or gets injured. Both are likely to have chances again at the year-end finals in the next few years, but I doubt Team GB will have this opportunity again in the near future.

November 2nd, 2015 at 11:52 am

that’s true RZ. well, in the end, it didnt stop fed/wawa from winning DC, so there’s that.

November 2nd, 2015 at 12:28 pm

Team GB hasn’t got a chance without Andy Murray. If Andy withdraws from WTF he would not only be fined a huge sum of money (which I doubt he cares about) but he could be penalised throughout 2016 by having to qualify for ATP tournaments – not good, not good at all. He has a quandary – no doubt at all.

Unfortunately he hasn’t got a Stan Wawa to back him up for singles.

November 2nd, 2015 at 12:46 pm

“he could be penalised throughout 2016 by having to qualify for ATP tournaments”

Can you explain this? I haven’t heard about this. Do you mean they’d stop giving him direct entry?

November 2nd, 2015 at 12:53 pm

Agree with J-Kath. Unless James Ward can pull off another miracle, but those only seem to come against the U.S.

November 2nd, 2015 at 1:13 pm

On a not very related note, I saw this on the ATP site today. “Peya and Soares improved to a 6-2 mark against Murray and Peers as they claimed victory in one hour and 33 minutes, breaking serve four times. Both teams will end their partnerships at the close of 2015, with Soares and Murray due to join forces for the 2016 season.” I just don’t understand the constant doubles partner switcheroo that all the top plays (except the Bryans) participate in. These are 2 highly successful teams. Murray and Peers were making major headway in their partnership (2 GS finals). Why switch now?

November 2nd, 2015 at 1:22 pm

Ben – I did explain this way back – can’t remember how far back though (probably when Belgium won and went for clay for the final – GB had been hoping they’d have the home tournament) – but I looked it up on all the rules-of-tournament sites – and it was quite clear he would not have direct entry………..if he simply said he wouldn’t play — it was to do with the conflict between the two main organisations , essentially the ITF and ATP (I think)…it was quite clear when I looked it up which really irritated me, as you can imagine.

Andy has also had a few warnings in this respect.

November 2nd, 2015 at 2:57 pm

There’s no way the ATP goes through with that. They’d probably slap him with a fine at worst. If they half-assedly penalize Kyrgios, do you think they’re going to full on penalize the world number 2 and member of the “Big 4” and a guy who’s just generally been a great ambassador for tennis with no other mishaps? It’s a half-baked threat if that.

November 2nd, 2015 at 3:37 pm

Not to mention when Andy bailed the ATP event out by appearing at the last second to play an exho with Novak when Roger pulled out of the final to rest his back for Davis Cup where he was practising two days later on the French clay.

November 2nd, 2015 at 3:55 pm

I hope you are all right re. Andy – but when 2 organizations are stating their claims who knows the levels of politics that may turn the screw as far as Andy is concerned. When this first became news, Andy’s fans were sayng “Why doesn’t he keep his big mouth closed and suddenly find he’s got a sudden injury that prevents him from appearing at the O2” – unfortunately because he’s British it is judged he is a big draw for the O2 – even though, even at the best of times, he’s unlikely to win it. Certainly if he does appear, he ain’t going to put all on the line to win – without doubt his goal is a British victory at Davis Cup.

November 2nd, 2015 at 4:32 pm

Murray hasn’t made much headway at the O2 arena in past years. (Same with Nadal – His 2 best years, 2010 and 2013, Rafa made the Finals, but was beat pretty good by Federer, then Djoker).

Shame with the scheduling and the ATF/ITF not being on the same page and certain players caught in the middle – because Andy deserves his spot – he earned it. One of these years, he might win it. But no one would blame him if he only plays at 80% and exits in the round robin so he can get out there on clay as soon as possible.

November 2nd, 2015 at 8:11 pm

Its great hes playing with it been in London yada yada,but im just wondering how much of a factor he will be if his minds on the DC?last year Roger was injured and ended up pulling out of the final because of the DC, and the WTFs actually ended up been an anti climax….

November 3rd, 2015 at 6:54 am

Meant to add,as we didnt even get a final in the end….

November 3rd, 2015 at 6:59 am

Hope Rafa is in Andy’s group. Lol

November 3rd, 2015 at 7:00 am

Murray currantly has 7870 pts and Federer 7250 pts. Only way for Fed to pass Murray and get #2 seed for WTF is if he wins Paris and Murray doesn’t make the final. If Murray makes final he will second seed and lead group B in round robin avoiding Djoko. Fed will be 3 and Nadal can go beyond 5 so there is a big possibility Fed and Nadal are in the same group together with either Djoko or Murray. That would be the group pf death for sure. If Fed does win Paris and Murray loses before finals than he will be seeded 2, Murray 3 and he avoid Djoko but Murray and Nadal could land in his side or in Djoko’s side. Either way there is a big possibility of 3 of Big 4 in the same group this year.

November 3rd, 2015 at 7:18 am

The best matches might all be in just the one group,then the other group might end up been duds,i just hope we actually get a final this year,lasts years event was a bit of a dissapointment to be honest, and i make no secret about my feelings on the topic,and im not about to change my stance either, dont get me wrong i still understand the importance historically of the WTFs the top 8 players,but when it comes to sport i dont like this type of format,groups and losses yet your still there,can still win the title hmm,still JMO and i doubt many would agree with it anyway….

November 3rd, 2015 at 7:40 am

Murray will be in the WTF final versus Nole and then a couple of hours before the final he will pull out and Federer will do the “Exhibition” match with Nole…IN MY DREAMS…..

November 3rd, 2015 at 8:08 am

Rafa and Andy will face each other in the WTFs,and all the GS finals next year,…YEAH RIGHT IN MY DREAMS….

November 3rd, 2015 at 9:25 am

GG – Your dream has at least a percentage of possibility to it – mine was taking the utter mickey…trying to laugh and not cry…

Seeyah
K

November 3rd, 2015 at 9:37 am

J-Kath i think yours has a better chance of happening than mine….

November 3rd, 2015 at 9:40 am

GG

You are pulling my leg – Federer agreeing to a freebie exhibition because that spoilsport Murray withdrew at the last minute????

November 3rd, 2015 at 9:56 am

GG

Isn’t it nice – we’ve got this thread all to ourselves…..Who else shall we privately discuss?

November 3rd, 2015 at 9:58 am

Re. GB v Belgium – Davis Cup

https://betting.betfair.com/tennis/davis-cup-betting/davis-cup-2015-final-betting-great-britain-belgium-031115-201.html

November 3rd, 2015 at 10:07 am

J-Kath lol to both posts….

Who or what/should we discuss?GOAT err dear god no that was a joke?erm the football off side rule never did understand it anyway?who was more popular/bigger Elvis or The Beatles?Marmite love it or hate it?….

November 3rd, 2015 at 10:22 am

GG

Marmite – hate it. Favourite sandwich Avocado and real tasty tomatoes OR Beetroot and tomato.

The Beatles cos there were 4 of them – bound to be the bigger.

….better stop while Myself is not ahead of itself…

PS: If you have a mo. have a gander at the article I posted …it is a bit unusual..

November 3rd, 2015 at 11:05 am

GG exactly.

WTF should be treated like an all star game in most other professional sports. For big prize money only.

Winning a tournament by losing up to two matches is crazy and the points are doled out to the top 8 giving them an unfair point cushion in the seedings for the following year.

It’s a joke.

November 3rd, 2015 at 11:12 am

daniel – has this ever happened before – “Either way there is a big possibility of 3 of Big 4 in the same group this year.”??

November 3rd, 2015 at 12:02 pm

@J-Kath – thanks for the article. I agree it’s a bit unusual, but that would give something for Team GB to consider. However, with the tie being on clay I don’t see how they go with anyone else other than James Ward.

November 3rd, 2015 at 12:37 pm

Why do you say that, RZ? Is Ward’s clay record that good? (not too familiar with Ward)

Bedene just reached #49 – have not checked his clay record – but was wondering why they didn’t use Bedene before.

November 3rd, 2015 at 12:59 pm

@Jalep – Ward’s record isn’t that good (on any surface, sadly) but he did pull off the big upset against Querrey on red clay last year.

I looked up both men’s activity this year on clay and they are actually pretty similar. TBH I’m not sure it makes a difference which one of these guys plays, as I don’t see either beating Goffin. But I think Ward deserves the spot based on the fact that it’s due to his clutch wins over Querrey last year and Isner this year that Team GB even had a chance to be where they are.

November 3rd, 2015 at 1:11 pm

As for why they didn’t use Bedene before, it’s because he switched to playing for GB this year and based on rules (ITF, I think) once you’ve played Davis Cup for another country, you can’t switch. He has appealed that, which is what the article that J-Kath posted is about.

November 3rd, 2015 at 1:12 pm

Wondering if you would a couple of you might feel differently about WTF if it was held on outdoor clay. They could hold it in South America – pretty nice there this time of year in many places.

I like the RR format for the top 8. Just think there needs to be several other year end opportunities for others to pick up points. WTA now has Zhuhai (though can’t even find a livescore) – it’s great for those not in top 8. Itf tournaments are ongoing opportunities for way lower ranked players this time of year.

Atp has the Challenger year end final which I’ve followed and ITF tournaments are almost non-stop. Those ranked on the cusp of getting or losing a direct draw entrance (94-114) into AO can take advantage of challenger year end opportunities. But I’d like ATP to offer a Zhuhai-like Final.

If the year end final was an exho with no points and simply money for incentive — that’s pretty pointless (literally) because top 8 already have ridiculous piles of money. Not saying they wouldn’t all show up for the money. But I would rather watch the challenger tour final in that case because it actually means something significant for those really needing it.

November 3rd, 2015 at 1:15 pm

@jalep
They’re still arguing whether or not Bedine can play Davis Cup for GB as he has already played DC for Slovenia and, as far as I know, this disqualifies him.
As far as WTF is concerned, I don’t care too much about Andy’s seeding there, but really care about his seeding at AO.
I don’t care too much about the WTF either TBH. Oops, there, I’ve said it now!
Usually it disappoints, and not just because a certain Mr Murray doesn’t do very well either.

November 3rd, 2015 at 1:16 pm

Alright, thanks, RZ. Wasn’t sure about ITF/Davis Cup rules for Bedene – and he has not been all that impressive until lately. Haven’t looked at his profile but since I follow tournament results and ranking movers, Bedene has caught my eye recently.

Interesting article, J-Kath.

November 3rd, 2015 at 1:22 pm

But don’t you go, since it’s close-by, Margot? I thought you did enjoy it. My favorite year there will remain 2009 – but I was such a Davydenko fan.

November 3rd, 2015 at 1:27 pm

@Jalep – I like the fact that the WTF is held on an indoor court because there are no indoor Grand Slams (though Shanghai and Paris are indoors masters).

I’m okay with the RR format but sometimes it does get a little surreal (we saw that with the women with Radwanska losing her first 2 matches and then winning the whole shebang). They could expand it to the top 12 or 16 and have 4 groups of 3 or 4 players, and whoever wins the group gets to go to the semis.

November 3rd, 2015 at 1:35 pm

Yes, RZ. Trying to recall, maybe dreamed or imagined this…didn’t Year End Final try the 16 format once or twice, do you know?

Well, Agnieszka was able to turn water into wine :D She’s magic like that. Actually love those upsets possible within RR. But they usually don’t happen.

Why I think of South America — isn’t WTF due to move somewhere else next year? Also like indoor hard court in London. Just know there are some who have complained about it never being on clay.

November 3rd, 2015 at 1:49 pm

What happened in Singapore was pretty crazy. But I don’t think the system is broken.

The round robin format is perfect for this event. You have the 8 best players in the world. Why wouldn’t you want to see as many match-ups as possible, especially before an extended break? Expanding it also doesn’t make sense because you can’t do 10 players in a round robin and having top 12 kills some of the prestige.

I also don’t like this extra tournament the WTA has. The WTF is supposed to be the cap on season. Play challengers, sure, but the ATP season ends in Paris, a Masters event no less, and the top 8 end it at the WTF, in which qualifying is a reward for being one of the best 8 players in the world.

November 3rd, 2015 at 1:53 pm

Yes, I do go, but Andy has missed a couple and generally performed poorly, but other matches have disappointed as well. Last year I saw Andy lose to Kei, which haunts me still.
And when I say 2009 is probably my favourite year too, love giant killers, says it all really.

November 3rd, 2015 at 1:55 pm

And PS
I’ve already seen everyone whose qualified play before. I was really hoping to see someone new, but alas no, so it gets a bit predictable.

November 3rd, 2015 at 1:58 pm

And PPS
I’ve been to a lot of “live” tennis this year and the very best match I saw was Rafa v Dolgopolov at Queens, because the tennis was brilliant and you really didn’t know who was going to win until the very last ball was struck.
And no exceptions to that, even tho. I’ve seen Andy play twice!

November 3rd, 2015 at 2:06 pm

Thanks for reminding me, Margot! Dog v Rafa at Queens was right up there with my favorites of the year – even from my couch across the pond. Still envious about the live matches you’ve been to this year ;)

Fognini v Rafa at US Open also stands out.

Coric beat Verdasco – good win for Borna — nice to see he’s not slacking. Yep, it’s more interesting when new faces make WTF, agree there too.

Sock lost but suspected he might lose to Troiki. Might be a good thing too because he and Vasek are playing doubles in Paris. Vasek didn’t make it into Singles main draw or qualifying. It’s a last chance to make alternate to London.

November 3rd, 2015 at 2:19 pm

Ben, the problem is: WTA doesn’t have an equivalent of Challengers, that I know about, anyway. Very low level ITF event has been all that’s left over and I’m not sure about the rules and who they allow play those.

The only thing that struck me as fishy was Zhuhai offered those wild cards…based on what?

I feel in that case, they should stay with those waiting in the ranking line (but maybe they did offer a WC to Azarenka and didn’t publicize it)

Cheering for Vika to get back to a better seeding for AO. Bencic and Bacsinzsky didn’t go due to injury.

November 3rd, 2015 at 2:29 pm

Jalep, what do you mean? Of course the women have challengers. I’ve been to them.

“I was really hoping to see someone new, but alas no, so it gets a bit predictable.”

Agree with you there, Margot. But that’s what happens when only the top 5 are any good.

November 3rd, 2015 at 2:35 pm

Ben …Yes
Jalep – loved water into wine
Jalep & RZ – appreciated your comments.
Margot – so there you are – Agree only want Andy to be seeded high at AO – don’t care about WTF (as long as he handles it right – and I don’t mean trying to win). PS: Last year he nearly killed himself getting into it….daft, daft and more daft.
….Gypsy – what You Thinking|?

November 3rd, 2015 at 2:43 pm

http://www.wtatennis.com/all-about-rankings

This is what I’ve been looking at Ben. Just not called challengers here – and where I follow WTA ITF and ATP Challengers on my phone, this:

http://www.flashscore.com/tennis/

If there were challengers of any sort nearby – geez, I’d want to go!

WTA had that 125K – but thought that was new this year.

November 3rd, 2015 at 2:46 pm

I don’t mind the second tier tournament that is held by the WTA, but I don’t like or understand why it’s held after Singapore. It would make more sense to hold that tournament first, and then the women’s year-end finals. Agree that who gets in/doesn’t is always a bit sketchy.

November 3rd, 2015 at 2:49 pm

I’m not sure, Jalep. I don’t get why all these events have so many different names/categories.

J-Kath, I don’t know what you’re saying yes to.

November 3rd, 2015 at 2:49 pm

RZ, yeah I wouldn’t mind if it was before the year end championships, but hosting it after makes no sense.

Remember in the 90s when the ITF came out with their “Grand Slam Cup”? It was basically a full slam, featuring the “top slam performers” of the year. The first few rounds were best of 3 and the semis and finals were best of 5. On paper, it’s an interesting idea, but looking through the draws and you can see why it’s silly in execution.

November 3rd, 2015 at 3:02 pm

You guys, the format is ok for an all star exhibition showcase for entertainment like all star events as in most other professional sports.

Players show up all over the place for appearance fees. Look at IPTL last year and this year again.

In tennis, when you lose, you should be out. Not some sets/games won lost/ points differential.

That is crazy for 1500 points and points not available for anyone outside top 8.

Tennis needs to take itself more seriously. No other sport does something like this so out of place as the rest of the season.

November 3rd, 2015 at 3:47 pm

And yes jalep exactly. Should be rotated indoors and outdoors on clay and hard court. Maybe even Australia for grass!

It would be more interesting.

November 3rd, 2015 at 3:48 pm

I like the WTF format. I think it’s a big achievement for those 8 players and players fight hard to get those spots (especially when it was more unpredictable then it has been the past few years).

You see other players in the 9/10 spot really start to fight and qualifying can change their whole perspective about their place in the sport. Happened to Delpo in 2009 and Stan’s first qualification in 2013 is followed by a slam at the beginning of the next season.

It just has to be better than last year, which had multiple blow outs, exactly one good match, and no final.

Also, London seems to have a lock on hosting, which makes me wonder if we should have a change up at some point?

November 3rd, 2015 at 3:54 pm

The Masters was one of the biggest sporting events in the US during the 70s and 80s and no one complained.

1500 points is only awarded to an undefeated winner. If you go 1-2 and somehow win the title, you still don’t get 1500 points.

Why should it be available for players outside the top 8 if the whole point is that you have to qualify for it? All tournaments have direct entry cut offs. This one just doesn’t have a qualifying event tagged onto it.

This format has been around since its inception. But now tennis doesn’t take itself seriously? There’s nothing out of place about it. Why should it be rotated on different surfaces? Why don’t we rotate all of the slams, too? The WTF is the culmination of the fall/indoor season like the slams culminate their own surface specific seasons. Playing it outdoors would be fine, too, since a few fall events are outdoors. But the surface should be similar to those events (medium to fast paced hard).

November 3rd, 2015 at 3:59 pm

Ben

Saying “yes” to the “vein” of your comments at 1.53pm.

November 3rd, 2015 at 4:13 pm

J-Kath – if only I had those powers! I’d open a high quality, low cost, distribution business :D

What’s worse, Ben, is trying to remember points given for each round at different WTA tournaments — you get numbers like: 585, 470, 185, 60, 30…

But yeah it’s nearly a different language for WTA compared to ATP.

At least I see flashscore does have Zhuhai scores today which weren’t there yesterday. Venus won her RR match.

November 3rd, 2015 at 4:22 pm

Interesting Jalep:

Think you could do whatever you set your mind to do.
Best would be high quality, low cost, zero distribution business….i.e. product bought & distributed by others – let me know if you want some ideas (no cost)…

November 3rd, 2015 at 5:01 pm

It’s an unfair buffer of points for the elite eight that other players can’t compete making chances of breaking top 8 the rest of the year more difficult as all else being equal they get a lower seed.

Also, as explained losing up to two matches and still winning and earning 1200 points is not right.

There are already two out of dour hard court slams. We don’t need another big tournament on hard court indoors or out.

Rotate it and make it for the money prizes.

It’s always been a strange arrangement for a sanctioned competition. Didn’t say otherwise.

November 3rd, 2015 at 5:21 pm

Well as i said,i didnt expect many to agree with me anyway lol….

November 3rd, 2015 at 5:34 pm

Thanks J-Kath and Jalep for the links….

November 3rd, 2015 at 5:49 pm

Murray threatened to skip the event because Davis Cup is on clay. Federer skipped the final last year because his DC final was also on clay. But you want to make the WTF a random surface every year even though it’s played right after numerous hard court events? Yeah, that makes a whole lot of sense… if we lived in a world run by monkeys.

It’s not an unfair buffer. It’s the top 8 players in the world, not 8 random players that the ATP decided they like. They earned their spots by being the best all year. It’s not like they have any special leg up the following year. Yeah they get a cushion points-wise which helps their seeding the following year, but I still don’t see anything unfair about this. You earn your rank/seed. You earn your spot in the WTF.

If you go 1-2 in RR and win the title, you get 1100 points. That’s 100 more points than a Masters. I don’t think a regular fan would be thrilled about such an occurrence, but overall the player would have to go 3-2 against the TOP 8 PLAYERS IN THE WORLD.

November 3rd, 2015 at 6:19 pm

Did I say every year? No I don’t believe that I did.

Also there are other ways. We need to keep an open mind and think outside the box.

The ITF, for example, could decide that for the benefit of the players and Davis Cup, that the DC final could be played on the same surface as the WTF.

Not rocket science. Well they did send a monkey into orbit.

In terms of the isolated buffer of points, we are going round and round with no new points so I will just disagree and leave it at that. We have a difference of opinion. For me, it just makes more sense for reasons given.

3-2 can define a champion. meh…if we lived in a world run by presumptuous monkeys.

November 3rd, 2015 at 7:35 pm

“3-2 can define a champion. meh…if we lived in a world run by presumptuous monkeys.”

I guess we do.

November 3rd, 2015 at 7:59 pm

Ah, so you do agree that WTF being played on different surfaces makes sense!

Well done Ben Pronin.

November 3rd, 2015 at 8:39 pm

Ben,

Agree with you to the core here.
It’s fixed, everybody knows it will be indoor and it creates a sense of hurting in top 10 as only the cream of the top qualify early, the others from 5 to 8 only in last 2-3 events.

You have be good enough to win all 5 important tourney all year: AO slow HC in the heat, RG clay in spring, Wimbledon grass in summer, US Fast HC end of summer and WTF indoors end of te year (against only fellow top 10nners). The system is perfect.

And elina, even if you go 1-2 and win tournament, you end up with 1100 pts, not 1200pts: 1500 – 2 (200) = 1100 pts, basically equivalent to a Masters, where sometimes you beat less than 3 top 10, sometimes 2 and others none. This scenario never happened before, only a few cases of players winning after losing 1 match but majority of times the winner goes undefeated.
Anyway, beating 4 out of 5 top 10 is bigger than anything achieve in Masters where you can only beat 3 for a fellow top 8, Quarter, semis and finals.

Jane,

No, it never happened before because Nadal skipped last year when he was outside top 4 and 2013 Murray didn’t play. This will be the first year since 2012 all 4 play and they are not ranked 1, 2, 3 and 4.

November 3rd, 2015 at 10:26 pm