Rafael Nadal Withdraws From Wimbledon Due To Wrist Injury

Too bad for Nadal. I read that the tv viewing of the FO final was the lowest since 1998. Guess a match up between Djokovic and Murray was just not able to draw in the casual tennis fan. And also we have to remember that the millions of Nadal/ Fed fans would have skipped it altogether.

June 9th, 2016 at 1:36 pm

Disapointing but not surprising, it was always a tall order to expect him to be fit so soon after pulling out of RG, anyway hes said nothing of pulling from Rio, as some seem to think, well not at present anyway ….

June 9th, 2016 at 1:38 pm

@Frankie: Please, provide the source for tv viewing figures you cited for FO2016 final. I am little bit surprised as AO2016 final viewing figures were the highest ever.

June 9th, 2016 at 1:44 pm

Get well soon Rafa.
Vamos Champ!

June 9th, 2016 at 1:45 pm

Maybe he will be back for Canada to practice, test his wrist and than decides to go for Olympics. He sure won’t want to skip that, next one he will be 34.

Now time to focus and healing and recovering.

June 9th, 2016 at 1:58 pm

I so hope he can play at the Olympics. He deserves the chance to carry the flag.

June 9th, 2016 at 2:23 pm

Sad news.

@Frankie, though I agree that the players have something to do with it,one also has to consider that in the US, ESPN dropped their coverage of the French, and most casual (and even serious but busy!) tennis fans simply aren’t going to seek out tennis on the internet. Either it’s on for them or it’s not. You build viewership by getting people excited about the tournament, and that takes lots of airtime. NBC is not able to do this with their few here-and-there hours of non-live weekend coverage. Still, you’re probably not going to get the kind of numbers you got with Fedal in the near future. It was just the perfect yin and yang drama, made for TV.

June 9th, 2016 at 2:37 pm

1. Knew this was coming since he withdrew from his customary warmup event that Uncle Toni called “critical” for Rafa to get his legs and timing on grass.

2. Rafa is selected as Spain’s flagbearer. Wants that experience. But he already has a gold medal from narrowly beating Djokovic in the semis on hardcourt, then a fairly easy Final against Gonzalez in 2008 at Beijing. Doesn’t need a second gold like some are going to be there and kill for their 1st. If his wrist is still bothering him, show up, play a couple rounds, go out honorably w/no Tomic style tanking sounds good. I think the surface is going to be close to Aussie plexicushion.

3. FRankie – Ratings low? Maybe it is time to have Nike, IMG, the tennis writers, and the general media build up the other stars since Rafa and their especially loved Federer are at the end stage of their days as top competitive players. Don’t see either wanting to do the Leyton Hewitt route of qualies. Seems they have other options these days than riding Fedal into the Hewitt stage as the marquee attractions.

June 9th, 2016 at 2:42 pm

Frankie informs us:
“I read that the tv viewing of the FO final was the lowest since 1998.”

Wow, since 1998! Where did you read that, dear Frankie? Could you please provide a link? I guess not… never mind…

This is the problem with Fedal fanatics – they resort to lies to justify their sick and hateful narrative, i.e. without Federer/Nadal nobody watches tennis.
Frankie who never posts here, posted today to tell us he read this… and his comment is conveniently placed first of all!

Tennis X lets this kind of garbage through… And I am being moderated?!?

Never mind! Most importantly, Djoker keeps inflicting pain to all haters, despite their small-minded tricks. It should not be that way, you guys should be happy you’re witnessing history with Djoker and will be able to tell your grandkids one day that you saw it all. Why lie about lowest TV numbers just to make yourself feel better? In a sense of “I hate Djoker so let’s pretend nobody watched RG final, meaning that the rest of the world is like me – meaning I am not hateful and sick – that is a norm – nobody watched it”, etc…

Tell us what else you’ve read Frankie, please.

June 9th, 2016 at 2:42 pm

He only said he was pulling out of W, nothing about missing the Olympics, god its bad enough as a fan that he missed RG, and now missing W, isnt that enough ….

June 9th, 2016 at 2:43 pm

Was curious by Frankie’s post, found this link:

http://www.sportsmediawatch.com/2016/06/
french-open-ratings-down-nbc-lowest-overnights-1998-serena-djokovic/

June 9th, 2016 at 2:54 pm

@Daniel: This is just viewing for NBC and saying that it reflect tv viewings is grossly misleading.

June 9th, 2016 at 3:21 pm

Its best for him just to rest the wrist and perhaps he’ll be able to play at other major tournaments soon and maybe the Olympics.

June 9th, 2016 at 3:29 pm

Agree, here in Brazil everybody loves RG, i was wathing online on my phone because the same network also had live stream.

Just posted because the news was almost exaclty what he posted, maybe this was the news he read.

June 9th, 2016 at 4:03 pm

Can you recognize Frankie and other haters in this old but good one:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CUcmzeRU
sAADi5b.jpg

June 9th, 2016 at 5:17 pm

TB,
More for ya:
“Considering that both matches featured a world #1 seeking a historic achievement, the 18-year lows are notable.” From the link daniel posted. No garbage, no sense blaming on those Fed fans you love so dearly, you know who played in the finals.
@George
NBC had the broadcasting rights for the semi’s and finals so yeah that is right. They posted comparable numbers going back to 2010 Mens finals…..

June 9th, 2016 at 5:25 pm

this is from another article about the clay swing pre-FO

“The fans obviously enjoyed the clay swing with record attendances at Monte Carlo(133,282), Rome(196,697) & Madrid (244,660)”

http://gulfnews.com/sport/tennis/inside-the-atp-world-tour-the-chris-kermode-column-1.1842843

part of the issue is the coverage of slams is ABYSMAL! i had to watch a lot of it on streaming because it either wasn’t shown on any cable channels i have or NBC was hoping between matches like a jumping bean, or only 1 match was on and it wasn’t the one i wanted to watch. add to that all the brutal rain delays at this FO and you have the makings of a lot of watchers tuning out.

finally, it doesn’t help that the tennis media and tennis establishment pushed basically only two players for over a decade that they shot themselves in the foot by suggesting to casual fans of the sport that only two players are worth watching – when several of them are!!

when novak went on his streak in 2011, some of my family who aren’t tennis fans but who watch slams were like “who is this guy?!” “his initials aren’t RF or RN!” but their interest was piqued anyhow because of the streak.

go to a site like this one or tennis.com and what do you see? at tennis.com you have a piece on federer’s zero tolerance, a piece on murray, a piece on rafa’s withdrawal, and a piece on the evil maria. nothing on the biggest achievement in tennis for half a century. no article was dedicated to that here, either.

so yeah.

you reap what you sow as far as interest in the sport, its promotion, and it’s evolution.

June 9th, 2016 at 5:29 pm

NBC gave ratings for America not for the rest of the world, there are 300 million people in America and how many outside of America… “only” six or so billion..?

June 9th, 2016 at 5:31 pm

pls ignore “its not it’s” and other typos like hopping i/o hoping.

June 9th, 2016 at 5:31 pm

excellent point wog boy, but then again, there are a lot of north american or western “centric” perspectives when it comes to so many things.

June 9th, 2016 at 5:32 pm

Skeezer,

I thought you were intelligent enough to pay attention to Frankie’s quote above “TV viewing of the FO final was the lowest since 1998”.

Do you think that NBC viewing is the proxy for whole world TV viewing? Even your cats should know that’s not the case. I know that most of our fellow Americans think this is the center of the universe, but sadly it is not – Chinese and Europeans have TV devices too, and …. newsflash… they do not follow the NBC broadcast.

June 9th, 2016 at 5:32 pm

“NBC gave ratings for America not for the rest of the world..”
As TB demanded, please show the link for that.
Regardless of if you can or can’t show a link that there Broadcast numbers are only from America or not, it is still the lowest rating in 6 years. That speaks volumes.
And for saying it is all about America, Serena was in the Finals and the ratings were down significantly from the two previous years.

June 9th, 2016 at 5:40 pm

jane,

Can you imagine the ratings of American football or Baseball outside America, I can tell you for Europe and Australia, next to none, do Americans care about that? No, they love it and they watch it.
Do I care about NBC ratings? No! I loved it and I watched it and it is Non-calendar Grand Slam, do painful to hear if you are Nole hater, like few on this thread.
Good to have you back TB, no moderated:)

June 9th, 2016 at 5:43 pm

Everybody with just little bit of common sense (brain) knows that NBC ratings are given for America, not SA, Europe, Asia since they don’t telecast, operate or whatever outside America so they can’t speak on behalf of other continents, but their own, you know, there is the life outside the village you live in..I know, it is hard to comprehend, but there is life.

June 9th, 2016 at 5:51 pm

So what is the point? Both Serena and Novak were last year in the finals and raiting went down this year.
There is other reason why it went down not because of Serena or Novak.

June 9th, 2016 at 5:53 pm

Lack of Support for FO?
For people in the UK who were enjoying terrific days of hot sunshine, watching, or should I say trying to watch, the FO was
a pain in the rear. Because of the rain, the timetable was shot. You hardly knew when you would see any match, never mind the matches one wanted to see. The only semi-decent day weather-wise was the Sunday finals.

Perhaps this is not the tournament this particular year to assess how much interest there is in tennis.

June 9th, 2016 at 6:18 pm

This is also the first year that, in the US, the French Open wasn’t on ESPN at all. You have to subscribe separately to the Tennis Channel – where I am, at least, it’s not part of your basic cable package. Wertheim has argued for a long time that this hopscotch approach to showing tennis matches is hurting tennis’ popularity in the United States.

June 9th, 2016 at 6:21 pm

skeezer is clearly trolling; no one who can type can be that stupid. Frankie tried to deceive readers of this blog by forgetting to mention that these are NBC figures alone.

June 9th, 2016 at 6:25 pm

The US flat out didn’t cover the French Open this year. Tennis Channel doesn’t count since it has contract problems with what feels like every big cable provider. And who watches NBC on the weekends unless you’re one of the handful of people who actually knows the final is on?

The US has straight up given up on clay. No contracts with the Masters, either. Nothing.

June 9th, 2016 at 6:52 pm

BBB
For your interest, this was the first time that I recall for the FO to be broadcast live in the UK and the TV programme was supposed to run from 11.00 through to 9.00pm – and the channel was a commercial channel as opposed to the BBC.

June 9th, 2016 at 6:56 pm

Here the coverage was awesome, from 6 am to the end and everyday when I got back from work I could watch the main matches without the rest time, so I can’t complain. But the best to watch here is USO because two networks have the rights and they cover almost alll matches.

June 9th, 2016 at 7:01 pm

In Canada, TSN has good decent coverage of all the majors. Everyday throughout the French this year there were 4 channels/courts to choose from. I’m sure that the weather had an impact on ratings as well.

June 9th, 2016 at 7:14 pm

kjb, but only if you buy and extended package and get TSN2, 4, etc…

June 9th, 2016 at 8:03 pm

regular tsn in canada varied in it’s feed too: one day it had a network with an aussie-sounding commentator, but for the men’s final they had NBC coverage, but they actually stayed with the boys junior final until it was over because a canadian boy was in it.

June 9th, 2016 at 8:05 pm

durrr “its” not it’s

June 9th, 2016 at 8:05 pm

@Jane

In BC on Telus TV, TSN 1 -5 are all included in the regular sports package. I pay $109 for TV, Internet and Home phone service. They do tend to show the Canadian players more for obvious reasons. But for the most part Grandslam coverage is great. Sportsnet One used to air all the Masters 1000’s but they don’t anymore.

June 9th, 2016 at 8:45 pm

i have shaw kjb.
maybe i should switch?
but i was waiting for the de-bundling.

June 9th, 2016 at 8:53 pm

Also, Just to give everyone a heads up, I was house sitting for some people who had an American dish. This was 2 years ago. If I recall, the dish had hundreds upon hundreds of channels and didn’t cover the French Open or Wimbledon. So my point is, If it’s not the U.S. Open, America doesn’t care about Tennis. I also agree with the comment about the weather being a major issue. For the casual viewer, I’m sure they were fed up and had packed it in for good by the beginning of the second week. And it’s true about Tennistv. I have Tennistv and they don’t cover any of the 4 majors.

June 9th, 2016 at 9:17 pm

Dave,
Dish this year provided for free the entire FO until NBC took over.

June 9th, 2016 at 9:25 pm

I have Cox cable and a few of the channels I was getting were taken away. Much to my surprise, the Tennis Channel was added to my package. I was excited…..I can watch tennis all day long if I choose to, but don’t since Rafa is out of commission………however I did watch Fed today, but to watch him is a pleasure……I will always watch Andy…..

June 9th, 2016 at 10:33 pm

Nadal is well and truly done. His body is older than his age of 30 years.

June 9th, 2016 at 11:02 pm

Sorry Skeezer. I didn’t specify. I don’t know what kind of dish it was. But the American dish that was being used at the house didn’t have either major as I was house sitting for the whole summer.

June 9th, 2016 at 11:22 pm

There was no debate here regarding rating, when the audience for the AO final from 2016 beat the records. Interesting

June 10th, 2016 at 12:18 am

This is a tragedy but was quite expected. Rafa just isn’t ready to compete in tournaments and the healing in his wrist is bound to take time.

I think ahead of the hard court season, we can look forward to a fresh Rafa yet again making another come back. How successful it would be remains to be seen ? But Rafa always relishes rising up in challenge and I hope he comes out with flying colours.

Tennis needs Rafa today very badly and he cannot afford to wither away.

June 10th, 2016 at 1:25 am

jane,

Re: your post @ 5:29 p.m.

on the other hand, it doesn’t help that the media, commentators, journalists, novak’s supporters, & others have gone to great lengths to disrespect roger & rafa by constantly suggesting that they are done; that novak has replaced them. that’s total disrespect and an insult to the contributions these two players have made to this sport, while they are still active. last I checked 14 & 17 slams were greater than 12. you people should show some respect. at least wait until novak accomplish these things, then talk.

let me be clear, doesn’t matter to me how many slams novak end up with because I have come to realize that there is a lot of undermining & ditch digging in this sport. it’s no longer the sport that i started out following. as a result, there are very few matches that i watched depending on who the player is and what tournament it is.

truth is, I didn’t watch the final, my family didn’t watch the final, my friends didn’t watch the final, nobody I know watched the final. we had no intentions to do so. we don’t appreciate how roger and rafa are discounted as if their contributions mean nothing and their careers are over. I expect fans to cheer for their favorite player, but novak’s fans should show some respect. no one knows what tomorrow will bring. things can change in the blink of an eye. how does anyone know for sure that novak is going to win another slam? how does anyone know for sure that rafa and roger won’t win another one? my point is, if the ratings were low, maybe novak and his fans need to examine themselves. you can’t just lay the blame on others, you guys have done your part, directly and indirectly to contribute. it’s hardly a surprise that the ratings were so low. there are various reasons why a lot of people including sponsors are not going out of their way to market or support a player who has won just about every big title for the last 5 years as has novak. there are reasons for it. the way i see it, you guys want novak at the top and he has shown he will do anything to stay there, so you have to accept that he is not rafa or roger; he doesn’t have their presence and he never will. you can’t blame others because he is not getting the support you think he deserves; it is what it is! that’s the reality!

June 10th, 2016 at 1:47 am

Mem,

With all the respect. In a few decades, nobody will care, that you, your family and friends did not watch the final. Novak is the only one among the guys from Big 4 , who won 4 slams in a row and that is a huge achievement. He made history.
Ok, perhaps Roger will go down as the most loved tennis player, but not as the greatest!
In cinematography “Gone with the wind” had more audience then “Dr. Strangelove”, but it does not mean, that the first one is a better movie than the second.

June 10th, 2016 at 2:09 am

Van Persie

I don’t recall asking anyone to care. I’m quite sure you are a novak fan because everybody wants to jump on the bandwagon of a winner. so why don’t you and your fellow novak fans dig up some support for him and spare us your whining about poor novak not getting the support rafa and roger get.

btw, do you think I care about who you guys think is the greatest. it is a subjective topic. you are allowed to choose whomever you like. what you think means absolutely nothing.

June 10th, 2016 at 2:39 am

“I don’t recall asking anyone to care.”..not tru, since you mentioned it on this site, you thought it were relevant and important.

“I’m quite sure you are a novak fan because everybody wants to jump on the bandwagon of a winner.”. I never was a Rafa or Roger fan

“so why don’t you and your fellow novak fans dig up some support for him and spare us your whining about poor novak not getting the support rafa and roger get. ” You and others Roger or Rafa fans should do the same, and spare us the “Novak is not liked and loved” thingy :)

“what you think means absolutely nothing.”: Dito

June 10th, 2016 at 2:46 am

Nole is very much loved and has great fan base, thank you very much. I don’t hear Nole fans complaining. Suddenly the poster who had running battles with Roger fans is worried about how not enough respect is shown towards him, really? Some of us are long enough here to remember how the very same poster was writing “respectfull” about Nole and Roger for that matter.
I can smell sore grapes, I almost pity her, she is giving up on tennis… o no, how can tennis survive without such great and respectful fan?!

June 10th, 2016 at 2:49 am

VP,
Don’t worry about her, everybody on TX knows her well, she hates Nole’s guts.

June 10th, 2016 at 2:52 am

WB,

I am not worried. I am having my fun during coffee break ;)

June 10th, 2016 at 2:56 am

@mem:

1) Tennis is now bigger than ever and brings more money than ever. Federer and Nadal played their roles and now Djokovic and Murray will play theirs. Tennis goes from strength to strength and it is economically healthier than ever.

2) Novak is doing just fine. He is 6th highest-paid athlete in the world for the last 12 months (~56M USD); Federer is 4th (~68M USD) and Nadal is 21th (~38M USD) (source Forbes). Taking into consideration that contracts are usually for 5 years, it is likely that you will see Djokovic going up and others going down.

3) I understand your cry for respect. However, you have to appreciate that you would not have this issue now if respect was shown when Djokovic struggled. If nobody said “SARS, anthrax,..”, “This guy is a joke” Djokovic fans would be more sensitive towards Federer. Nadal is a different story and I think that most Djokovic’s fans are OK with Nadal.

June 10th, 2016 at 2:59 am

to all Serbian speaking fans please have a look at this you tub clip on Srbikosi – Himna Djokovicu, it is very funny

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y70lGTUH-dk

June 10th, 2016 at 3:06 am

Exactly George,

I never had a problem with Nadal…well, I was a bit jealous, because he had 9 RG titles and Nole had 0 until last Sunday. That “wound” is healed now ;)
Rafa will miss the Wiimbledon, but I guess he did not expect great results there. I am sure he will return on hard courts for his fans

June 10th, 2016 at 3:16 am

Even Pete admits, that Novak is playing the best tennis of all times ;)

http://www.tennisworldusa.org/Pete-Sampras-Novak-Djokovic-is-playing-the-best-tennis-of-all-time-articolo33485.html

June 10th, 2016 at 3:54 am

@AndiMira…..if you are keeping up with TX hope you see this…..I can’t get my messages to be sent or received on my Kindle….don’t know what the deal is. I can on my PC….but rarely use it anymore….that is why u haven’t heard from me…..just wanted you to know……🆗ie…

June 10th, 2016 at 4:10 am

I saw the final, and from what i can gather, when both men walked onto court, Novak got the loudest cheers, so much for him been unpopular eh ? ….

Anyway i think you have to bear in mind, that audiences might differ in some places or parts of the world, as not all matches or tournaments, are actually screened on terestrial channels, and not everybody has sky tv, SW 19 is the only GS in Britain where you dont need a digital or sky box to watch it ! ….

June 10th, 2016 at 4:47 am

maybe nadal serving silent ban,his form in first 2 rounds of rg was so impressive,he is not eastern european like sharapova to get 2 years ban….they will lift ban on sharapova if vladimir putin return crimea to ukraine…politics

June 10th, 2016 at 6:00 am

IMHO There hasnt been what i would call an amazing final at RG for years, theres was plenty of great shot making, rallies etc etc, but it wasnt what you would call a really meaty contest, war of attrition type match, in fact the best matches have been semis, but thats JMO ….

The history that was made by Novak was amazing, the match itself was a dissapointment ….

June 10th, 2016 at 6:49 am

This is what I don’t get, when you say “most Novak fans are ok with Nadal”.

As far as I am concern on this blog, most of the poster who “hates” Novak are Nadal fans. Be son for year ever since Djoko start beating them. I find it odf tgat most of you are so “resentful towards Federer”

But my theory is simple, deep down all Djoko fans knows Novak is better than him already on every department bar (the 2 Slams, which Novak will tie or suprass in a tear time) so is like Nadal is not “in Djoko’s” way to greatness. Only Federer is because still it is not sure that Djoko will catch 17.

I was wondering about this latest months. Why many Djoko fans seema so agrevated by Federer and suddenly a new found love to Nadal, it kind of amuses me. Maybe is pitty…don’t know.

June 10th, 2016 at 8:35 am

Reagrsing popularity of sport / fan.

Tennis interest seems fine be me. Still see a lot of people playing regulalry.

As for fan, there is no denying, Fedal has the most fan base and it shows, no matter of Djoko ends up with 20 Slams, at this point it just won’t change. But it is not a popularity contest, what matters are the titles.

For example this site alone, we use to have threads with 400 + commments, no so anymore because the majority of Fedal fans / fanatics / whatever disapear.

Their bad, some people are more attached to a player specific than the sport itself.

June 10th, 2016 at 8:43 am

Lol Daniel. The last 2 lines of your post at 8 35 am are really pathetic as are most of your posts. Joker fans will hate fed cos right now fed has 17 and joker 12. Quite simple really. Nadal doesn’t need pity from the scumbags who call themselves joker fans.
Here’s hoping joker does not win another slam. He has too much already, undeservedly so.

June 10th, 2016 at 8:49 am

Personally as a Nadal fan, i have no issue with Novak surpassing his achievements, after all records were made to be broken, and not any one players personal property, or what they have some sort of god given right to them either, im happy with Nadals achievements no matter what, and besides it was never about records as a fan, only the man himself, but thats just me, im cool, but i guess some wont see it that way ….

June 10th, 2016 at 9:06 am

@Daniel: You don’t get it at all. Nadal never said anything against Djokovic while Federer was a leader and instigator of Djokovic gang-bang when Djokovic was a baby. Disliking Federer has nothing to do with his success.

June 10th, 2016 at 9:19 am

@Willow: Nadal is a great tennis player (or the greatest if you wish) and, much more importantly, a decent human being. His statements were always measured.

June 10th, 2016 at 9:23 am

Roger, Rafa and Novak have all their unique achievements, and their place in the tennis history books will remain unique, not only because they are already at the top of many statistical categories, but also because they played at the same time.

Yes, I don’t like Rafa, but part of Novak greatness is the fact that he faced Rafa so many times. Their rivalries just add to their greatness.

And the GOAT discussion? They all could be GOATs. Everyone of them has arguments for, arguments against. No records can change this: Novak could well win 20 slams, but it won’t change his dimension, nor the dimension of Fed and Rafa. For Skeez, Fed is the GOAT. For Okie, it’s Rafa, For me, it’s Novak. But is it so important? their craft, their will to win, their achievements are exceptional.

And we really should be happy to have been witnesses of their era. At least, I am.

June 10th, 2016 at 9:23 am

Anyway, now that Novak is the GOAT, it’s so easier to be nice toward Fed and Rafa…

;-) Just kidding, of course.

June 10th, 2016 at 9:25 am

Geroge,

Now I get it. So its all a personnel thing because they don’t like each other.

Interesting, it’s different how people work, for example, I could care less what they say off court, they are my two favorite players and I even like they are not “pretend buddies”. My thing is with their tennis and as long as they play the best I have ever seen I am fine.
For example, I have no issue with Nadal off court, think he is a nice guy. But I dislike his tennis and on court antics.

June 10th, 2016 at 9:27 am

Hey okie..thank God i got your msg..you’re always manage to put me on high alert!last week you manage to be ‘missing’ for 2 days without any news..but this time i’m not worry coz i can see it on my fb that you’re still active..that’s okay okie,anytime your kindle can function normally again..you msg me okay?

June 10th, 2016 at 9:29 am

@9.23 am CHEERS, but GOAT is actually one caveat of tennis that i care little about, i prefer the idea of a number of all time greats instead, but thats just me, each to their own ….

June 10th, 2016 at 9:30 am

@Willow:

That’s what I said, although I believe that the fact that their careers overlapped adds to their achievements. How many more tournaments would any two of them would have won without the third?

June 10th, 2016 at 9:40 am

Okie,i forgot to add..if your kindle still can’t function in a couple of days..just smash it to the floor and buy a new one..coz i want to share something with you..you must be thrill to know this!

June 10th, 2016 at 9:44 am

@Daniel: I am more about what these players represent. Ali vs Frazier in 1971 had nothing to do with box and everything to do with politics. Ali was anti-establishment outcast and Frazier was representative of the USA establishment. If you are for large multinationals, for reach and powerful it is normal that you support Federer. If you are underprivileged, for those who struggle, it is normal that you support Djokovic.

June 10th, 2016 at 9:49 am

“dislike his tennis and on court antics”

Translation: Owning Roger

George, nailed it 9:19, 9:49

That’s what it’s all about – everything else is rationalization.

June 10th, 2016 at 10:02 am

Don’t agree with your latest George.

Let’s see who here is a diegard Djoko fan and has no relationship woth serbia?

The knly one I can think of is Jane. Anybody else that supoorta Djoko and os not from serbia, married to one, children etc..?

It’s not as bleek as you point.
I like Federer due to his tennis and Djokovic now for the same reason.
Liked Agassi and Smapras the same even then being rivals.

Have my patriotic share sipporitng Guga due to what he represent to Brazil and because he is such a lovable character.

But overall all main star today are basically all hole models now outside court. All have charity, fundations, supoor the sport and have “polianna” lifes bar a few young ones.

And you are gonna come here and say Djoko who just earned 56 miis agaisnt the “system”?! Give me a break.

June 10th, 2016 at 10:13 am

Ali made millions and was definitely anti-establishment ICYMI.

June 10th, 2016 at 10:15 am

Daniel,

I am not a Serbe and have no Serbian relatives.

June 10th, 2016 at 10:16 am

I don’t see anything in Djoko’s behavior off courr or what he says that is antiestablsihment. Just because he beats the two most loved players pf past 15 years doesn’t mean he is antiestablishment. He basically behave excalty as those two.

June 10th, 2016 at 10:17 am

VP, you are the second. I bet if all come outwe can count in one hand.

June 10th, 2016 at 10:18 am

Difference is Daniel that joker has no class. He can win 100 slams but he will still be the same barbarian that he is.

June 10th, 2016 at 10:26 am

Indeed..Rafas routine before the serve is very classy

June 10th, 2016 at 10:31 am

I am no Swiss, never even visited there. Is it in Eastern Europe?
___

Ali was anti establishment and eventually won over the establishment. He went way beyond his sport and went on a self sacrificing battle over a war that needed to be brought to light.

June 10th, 2016 at 10:32 am

Elina,

Comaprimg Ali, qhich wa aone of the worlds most controversila characters to Djoko is too much.

Ali fougjt agaisnt racism, had religion implications and always had somethign to say.

These tennis players, Djoko included, the munte they say something tgat could have perceive as out of line they retarct and or have a PR response.

Excption is Tomic, if he wasn’t such a prick, and a quiter you could almost like him because he has no filter at all.

I think you guys are way out here, one thing is not liking Federer and rooting Djoko who come frok a small vountry and fougjt adversity to become one of, if not the greatest male tennis players bit another is pretend he is antiestablishment when all hos actions shows that he just want to be loved and celebrate and respected, as he should be.

June 10th, 2016 at 10:35 am

Skeez man, you keep on impressing me. You can google and find out. Or are you 10 years old?

June 10th, 2016 at 10:36 am

@Daniel
I much prefer Roger to Rafa.
There’s too much circumstantial evidenced that the latter is a doper to ignore it. Roger’s recent firm stance on zero PED tolerance has something to do with him being pissed off that a guy who’s developed his muscles by cheating leads him 23-11 h2h.

People claim Rafa hurt his body by his style of play. That’s the biggest BS I’ve heard in tennis. You don’t hurt yourself by your playing style, injuries are related to how you train your body. Anybody who ever played anything semi-pro knows that. People who suffer injuries are those who don’t train properly or more often those that don’t train enough (in rare cases by overdoing training, but that’s related to not doing it properly). And some people are “injured” because of silent bans. Than they walk beaches with silly casts on their hands so paparazzi can make their money. I guess the cast is there to protect the wrist when holding an ice-cream.

The truth about Rafa will sooner or later come out. There’s too many people involved, somebody will talk when the money runs out. Even the Spanish court that ordered to burn evidence from Dr. Fuentes won’t be able to help.

June 10th, 2016 at 10:38 am

The establishment MADE nole anti-establishment. They vilified him. US Open final vs Fed prime example. Also Wimbledon.

But nole has finally owned the role quite comfortably and wins despite the bias.

June 10th, 2016 at 10:38 am

daniel, all I did was challenge your statement that you must be poor to be anti-establishment.

Comparisons can always be made.

June 10th, 2016 at 10:40 am

John McEnroe was anti-establishment and he did quite alright financially.

June 10th, 2016 at 10:41 am

@9.40 am Yes you did ;-) ….

June 10th, 2016 at 10:43 am

^Post for Mat 4 ^….

June 10th, 2016 at 10:45 am

Now elina,

I din’t say you need to be poor, but you need to be an agenda. I just said that somebody who wins 56 mi a year and never ever made a single controversial comment or foughtcivil rights, LGBT community as BJK, racism as Ali and etc.. Is not antiestablishment.

What he did and does is bring more awareness to Serbia which is the country where he came from.

But there is notging in his run that us agaisnt system. He is titally part pf the “system” whatever that is as anybody else. He gets all the accolades that come with being part of it.

June 10th, 2016 at 10:46 am

McEnroe was controversial,

Think you and I have very different views on what is considered antiestablishment.

June 10th, 2016 at 11:00 am

Daniel,

Before you ask how many Nole fans on TX are not Serbians you should ask yoursef another question, “How many Nole fans are on TX?” Your first question doesn’t make any sense knowing that it is only handful of Nole fans on TX (even now) compare to Roger’s and less so to Rafa’s fans.

June 10th, 2016 at 11:04 am

mat4, you must be joking man not to understand that the term anti-establishment has a wide range of context.

It simply is not limited to the context of which you’ve subjectively limited it to. Yous is but one example.

an·ti·es·tab·lish·ment
ˌan(t)ēiˈstabliSHmənt,ˌan(t)īiˈstabliSHmənt/
adjective
adjective: anti-establishment
against the establishment or established authority.

That is all. It can have a wide range of contexts.

In Nole’s case the established authority is the advantaged pro-Fed US Open crowd for example. Nole has learned to deal with it, almost revel in it, for the sole purpose of reaching his goals and not let them stand in his way.

June 10th, 2016 at 11:05 am

Anybody (non american) who played agaisnt Federer in last years final would have sufger the same. Plus peiple were drunk.

Being less cheered by a crowd doesn’t make you antiestablishment.

June 10th, 2016 at 11:06 am

Novak can have whatever love he wants,
after espn’s pat mcenroe
and the so-called gentlemanly warriors of tennis insulted him.
It’s not like anyone will care when Novak dominates
2 years from now.
What the weak ex-players and 2003 players say means nothing.

Fed and his colleague/”rival” Roddick
admit that they knew nothing about
Novak but then again, they only cared about
their golden boy images!
They went beyond having healthy competitive fire.

They were desperate for love & support, for trying
to distract and ridicule Novak.
Novak wasn’t a greedy pig that whined and looked
for verbal fights.
Fed knew Roddick was a money hungry sycophant that couldn’t
compete like Novak did.
Roddick was a spoiled boy stuck in a man’s fat body.
He tried to punch Novak in the locker room
after he failed to
create an espn troll fangroup against novak,
but he knew he’d get a nasty beat down
and humiliation at the U.S. Open, his “home turf”!
Wasn’t he happy that Novak couldn’t focus in the 2008
U.S. open vs. Fed and threw the match away like he did in 2007 U.S. open?
Fed & Roddick never once thought thoroughly
that their behavior came back to bite them
against the GOAT Novak, no less!👏👏👏👏

June 10th, 2016 at 11:09 am

And Daniel, Nole wasn’t part of tennis establishment, he was more of an outcast, he was never meant to be where he is now, he didn’t have a right to be where he is now, or to use the language of certain one.. “he was a joke”.

June 10th, 2016 at 11:09 am

WB,

Latelly, to me at least, it seems there is way more Nole fans than Fedal’s.
And the regular Murray when he is playing. As I said, majority of Fedal fans were vanishing week in week out.

My point is vecause George made a paralel implying that most Djoko fans cheer him because what he “represent” and I thibk majority cheers him on nationality and a few due to hos tennis/persona.

Also, thinking on the fan thing and the ones who disapear, I was very curious to see what Brando would say now after Djoko’s RG, when he had those essays on how Djoko is not in Fedal tier level and bla bla. Funny how things change pretty fast.

June 10th, 2016 at 11:13 am

Elina,

That goes with interpretaion and cultural as wel, you use it to me kind of arbitrary. To me anti-establishmente has more weight and more relevance in the bigger picture.

WB,

Don’t agree that Novak was not “meant” to be where he is.
He, Murray and DelPotro were the most talented players of their generation and many said they would be multiple Slam winners.

Djoko was an young prodgy, I thibk he holds tge record for younger to reach all semis in all Slams. He was always due for greatness.

Agree, he may not be thought to be THE GOAT and the one to challenge Rogers’s 17. But if we think like this, Nadla also wasn’t meant to be where he is now. This happens, some underachive (safin, murray, delPo as of now, Nalbandoan, Coria)and others “overachive” (Nadal, Djoko). But even so, the potential with them was always there.

June 10th, 2016 at 11:19 am

I’m divorced from a Serb who treated me poorly. I suppose I should be an anti-Djoker fan, but not at all. I think he’s fabulous. He’s funny and determined to overcome impediments and philosophical about it all. Admirable.

One thing we haven’t discussed as far as I can tell – when the crowd was angry with the umpire in the first set of the FO final, in a pro-Djoker way, and wouldn’t calm down, Djokovic waved his arms to get the crowd to be quiet. This is exactly why I have become an anti-Federer person: I’m tired of hearing about what a great sportsman he is, and Djoker isn’t, when I see nothing sporting in what Federer does. Does he quiet the crowd when they’re rooting for him at the expense of an opponent? Not that I’ve ever seen. He milks it for all it’s worth. Does he clap for opponents’ good shots? Not that I’ve ever seen. And so on.

And Murray is equally sportsmanlike, not just his very gracious comments in the FO ceremony, but disputing a time violation for Novak in Rome that was due to Andy’s own delays etc.

June 10th, 2016 at 11:20 am

The unloved #1. Poor joker. His demented fans coming forward to try and justify his presence. 👎👎👎👎

June 10th, 2016 at 11:21 am

Hey BBB. Lol. You ain’t seen much then?

June 10th, 2016 at 11:25 am

BBB,
Can I have a contract details of your former husband, I would like to have word with him and some of my friends would like too..;)

June 10th, 2016 at 11:26 am

^^ “contact” not “contract”

June 10th, 2016 at 11:27 am

Ha, WB! Well, he’s not a bad guy. He behaved immaturely.

June 10th, 2016 at 11:31 am

BBB,

I thibk that examole eas very unique, i don’t recall seeing it last for that long and it was starting to disrupt the whole mtahc, both for Djoko and Murray. One thing is a creod pro a player, another was that incident agaisnt the umpire.

June 10th, 2016 at 11:33 am

Ok BBB, but if you need anything, just let us know..

June 10th, 2016 at 11:33 am

http://www.vavel.com/en-us/tennis-usa/656987-is-there-a-double-standard-for-novak-djokovic.html
This type of article is going to gain momentum IMO.

June 10th, 2016 at 11:38 am

VP,
Your waaayy too serious. I thought you like sarcasm?
—
“The establishment MADE nole anti-establishment.”
Poppycock.

June 10th, 2016 at 11:40 am

Skeezer, I like smart sarcasm

June 10th, 2016 at 11:46 am

@Daniel: Djokovic is not an anti-establishment by choice or actions, but by sheer fact of his existence. Why Lendl and Navratilova were barely tolerated although they were more Americans than Americans themselves? Why Djokovic’s non-calendar Grand Slam is rarely in the title when describing his RG win? Would the coverage be the same if the same thing was done by Federer?

June 10th, 2016 at 11:48 am

vami,

I’m sure you are suffering from an incurable case of devastation because rafa nadal put his test results where his mouth is and chose to have them made public for everyone to see, including you. yeah I know, for garbage trucks like you, what nadal has done in an effort to improve antidoping controls doesn’t matter. in your mind he’s still a cheat. I understand, but

nonetheless, maybe you can use your spare time to insist that maybe novak djokovic can public his antidoping test history to help us curious fans figure out how he came from one of the tour’s weaklings in a matter of a couple months to the strongest player on tour for more than 5 years. to my knowledge, I haven’t heard him say anything about making his tests public. don’t you think it would help in the fight against potential drug cheats? I’m sure novak fans wouldn’t have a problem with it. at the same time, he might want to share his training routine if it’s not a secret. gluten free alone doesn’t exactly make players physically strong and enduring like novak has demonstrated. I’m sure other players would love to use his routine,( if they knew exactly what it is) to get stronger & better. so instead of swallowing in the sewer, use your time wisely and start a campaign to get novak and other players to do the same. you guys do want transparency don’t you? I’m so proud of rafa nadal. he couldn’t have made a better decision. I for one love transparency.

thank you!

June 10th, 2016 at 11:52 am

Now danny, I use it according to it’s broad definition in the English dictionary, hardly arbitrary.

Ironically, you’ve put your own arbitrary constraints around it. That’s your subjective choice to narrowly define it but it has a wider definition in the english language.

Hope this helps.

June 10th, 2016 at 11:52 am

I don’t know where you get the idea that everyone who supports Djokovic must be a Serb. I think he has more followers than all the people existing on the planet who happen to be Serb – and obviously not all Serbs are into tennis..

June 10th, 2016 at 11:54 am

George,

Don’t know ref Fed, maybe more.

But I remeber when Serena did in 2002 RG the hupe was no more different than now.

I think for the average viewer the Grand Slam is easy to “sell”. Hence why the hype was huge with her last year. It starts in a year and end in the same year.

I think if Djoko wins Wimbledon the hype will be higher than now because as he win hos first RG, the focus were more on it, hos career Slam.

Let’s wait and see…

June 10th, 2016 at 11:55 am

P.S. for Skeez: I remember I told here I am Eastern European. Note that my mother is a German Ethnic, have a look how many Germans were in Timisoara before 2 WW, what happened to the most afterwards. My mother tangue was more German then Romanian, and I am still rooting for Nole, and not for another German speaker.

June 10th, 2016 at 11:58 am

” I like smart sarcasm”
sarcasm is sarcasm. Google it.
I am not swiss. You are not Serbian, correct? We have something in common. What do ya know?
I like Fed and Novak, you like Novak…..wait…..uh never mind.

June 10th, 2016 at 11:59 am

Ok Elina,

Just different interpretations.

CF1,

I was refereing to this website. I first mentioned the feud between Djoko fans agaisnt Fed vecause in my eyes as we are dealing with peiple here on a daily basis the people supporting Nadal onthis site are the ones who act the worst towards Djoko. George explaimed and it actually makes sense. Most of the Djoko fans who don’t loke Federer don’t care about Nadal fasn bitching about Djoko. Fair.

But when he mention the “antiestablishment” thing like anybody who supports Djoko is “agaisnt the system” I have a problem with, because here on this site, the majority of Djoko’s fans are Serbs. Similar to Murray fans, almost all are from Britain.
No problem with it, I started cheering Kueeten because he was Brazilian, won RG and ascend to #1. Was he antiestablishment because he was agaisnt the Agassi – Sampras domination, hell no?! Not to me at least.

June 10th, 2016 at 12:00 pm

mem. Excellent post.

June 10th, 2016 at 12:04 pm

Djokovic have ~6.9M facebook followers. I don’t know how many would are Serbs; few hundred thousands maybe?

June 10th, 2016 at 12:05 pm

Just different interpretations.

CF1,

I was refereing to this website. I first mentioned the feud between Djoko fans agaisnt Fed vecause in my eyes as we are dealing with peiple here on a daily basis the people supporting Nadal onthis site are the ones who act the worst towards Djoko. George explaimed and it actually makes sense. Most of the Djoko fans who don’t loke Federer don’t care about Nadal fans making bad mouthing about Djoko. Fair.

But when he mention the “antiestablishment” thing like anybody who supports Djoko is “agaisnt the system” I have a problem with, because here on this site, the majority of Djoko’s fans are Serbs. Similar to Murray fans, almost all are from Britain.
No problem with it, I started cheering Kueeten because he was Brazilian, won RG and ascend to #1. Was he antiestablishment because he was agaisnt the Agassi – Sampras domination, hell no?! Not to me at least.

June 10th, 2016 at 12:06 pm

Guys, this site.

So far only Jane and VP have no Serb relation, even BBB had one.

June 10th, 2016 at 12:08 pm

https://mobile.twitter.com/Wimbledon/status/741245334609920001

June 10th, 2016 at 12:10 pm

@Daniel: I don’t know answers either. I asked Sean Randall to explain why he did not put NCGS in the title of his piece, but he did not respond to that. I am puzzled why most journalists insist that this is a career grand slam in the title and not NCGS.

June 10th, 2016 at 12:13 pm

Daniel, give me a break. I was a Djokovic fan before I met my now-ex husband. I am no more related to my ex-husband than Djokovic himself.

June 10th, 2016 at 12:19 pm

The overachievers, the mcenroes, Roddick + fed were
bitter and desperate to keep the fake fed “classic matches”alive.
Laughable quote from fed:
“I want Rafa & I to be #1 and #2…”
Roddick was practically begging for novak to go away.
How dare tennis lovers hate simpletons that serve 150 mph and
choke away matches to fed?
Roddick moaned at espn people for
mocking his rich, dull helpless self.
Pam Shriver finally admitted that poor Roddick stunk!

When Nadal creamed fed on clay and novak win 41 consecutive matches, these espn nuts couldn’t believe their Fed was ignored.
John stalked novak like novak would rub off
champion’s aura on him again.
The mcs professed their undying love for Fed
on tennis channel & espn/internet.

A new talking head, one precious, pathetic xenophobic espn dude
claimed On TV, like it was
A FACT, that the English fans wouldn’t warm up to novak. Lmao

Novak was just well, refreshingly decent.
This caused jealousy, as well as violence from fedtards.

June 10th, 2016 at 12:21 pm

I am surprised as well, thougth it qould have more coverage.

I sarted thinking it was strange because during Roland Garros was not being highlighted constantly. Rememebr when Fed and Nadal webt for it there were threads before the slams and even in Djoko’s first attempt in 2012 there wer more mention pre it.

June 10th, 2016 at 12:23 pm

Daniel, I had an affaire with a Serbe once. Am I spoiled? Sorry for the nastyness but you require such answers

June 10th, 2016 at 12:23 pm

BBB,

I was making fun as you mention your immature ex husband😉

June 10th, 2016 at 12:25 pm

VP,

I was just highlighting what is pretty clear for anyone here, majority of pro Djoko posters here are serbs not the whole Djoko fan base. I follow him on fb and I am no serb.

Also a few seems to have an ugly duckling syndrome going on.

June 10th, 2016 at 12:30 pm

Sisai is Ethiopian

June 10th, 2016 at 12:32 pm

Back to tennis, Ferrer lost, seems he will not be back to top 10 anytime soon and his best days are gone. This year we’ll start seeing a switch, Thiem already in and if Kyrgios compaoe himalef a bit more he could be on it this year still. I thibk Berdy will have his last seaosn as top 10 as well.

June 10th, 2016 at 12:34 pm

Daniel – “I just said that somebody who wins 56 mi a year and never ever made a single controversial comment or foughtcivil rights, LGBT community as BJK, racism as Ali and etc.. Is not antiestablishment.”

To be anti-establishment, you do not need to be a leftist SJW or a gay transexual activist or a community organizer. In fact, right now, it is the right wing in many countries fighting a leftist establishment that has been entrenched for decades that best fit that label, at least politically.

MacEnroe was anti-establishment, but in a liberal, stalwart Democrat lace curtain Irish/Scots way (as Dad was a Wall Street lawyer). Connors and Agassi were more bona fide “rebels” though Agassi was marketed to excess as a rebel. Both came from humble roots, hated the suits, warred with them endlessly.

But in tennis, we are not talking ‘political’. The players and the organization, so to speak, are in a more classic labor vs. management establishment clash.

Djokovic does not totally fit the “rebel” image, just because he is a more complex than usual athlete with talents off court. He wants the support of wealthy people to support his foundation and has found he and his wife move well in those circles they for sure did not grow up in. He wants to be a champion loved by all, but also un-PC, and willing to risk endorsements and wrath of the drug testers to pull out a manifesto at a news conference after he trashed Roger in the semis at the 2013 championships to then trash the suits. at WADA, the ITF, and ATP. Much of his training and diet defies previous convention, he is typically aligned as a change agent who wants to see the sport evolve and grow. Loves the O2 Arena and how brilliantly managed it is but believes that the Championship needs to relocate to function as intended – to be
in areas where it can help the sport grow. He is happy to say the stuff many avoid. Why shouldn’t Indian Wells be 1500 points? Experiment with some rules changes at lower level events (like ending the ‘let’) and if they work, bring them to tour. Get rid of towel boys and girls – have a towel stand.

I lump him in with fellow stars Rafa and Andy Murray as guys with good hearts, perceptive, down to earth, mostly unscripted. Federer is not that bad a guy either, but is more scripted and aloof, and spouts the Establishment line more often than not.

June 10th, 2016 at 12:36 pm

@elina, 11.05 am:

I don’t know which post of mine you are referring.

@all:

I don’t want to be part of this dispute, which I really don’t understand. I wrote what I had to write, said what I had to say. I am a Novak fan, and for me, he’s the best. For others, somebody else is the best. I agree not only to disagree, but, even, not to disagree. I just want to have nice discussions about tennis and trivia with posters I respect and I like, and there are numerous here.

@Daniel:

I was a die hard fan of Connors, an American, of Wilander, a Swede, of Mecir, a Czech, of Safin, a Russian, of Djokovic, a Serb. Since it’s not written on their forehead, I don’t care where they are from.

I also liked the Brazilian football team, Toninho Cerezo and Roberto Falcao, and yes, I would have gladly married a Brazilian in those years, but it was not to be.

June 10th, 2016 at 12:38 pm

mat4,

I believe elina confused your name with mine, she was referring to me in that post.

June 10th, 2016 at 12:45 pm

Some people want to belittle Novak fans and say
they are desperate, ugly and self segregating.
“Novak was and is nowhere
as good as ballet Fed”. They repeat to themselves.
It’s not like they worship an angelic Fed or Nadal.

June 10th, 2016 at 12:47 pm

OK. It’s sometimes very confusing. I tend to confuse Willow with Green lady myself.

June 10th, 2016 at 1:02 pm

Damm it, DelPo lost first set breaker to Simon, this a very winnable match for him and Kohls semis. Was hopong for him to go deep this week.

Hope he also gets a wildcars for Halle or Queens, draw should be out tomorrow.

June 10th, 2016 at 1:11 pm

Mat 4,

Will U watch football tonight ?
I will. Have a lovely evening ;)

June 10th, 2016 at 1:13 pm

mat4, june 10th @9:23 – very much agree with the overall sentiment of your post. and again at 12:38.

daniel, @9:27 – indeed, it is super interesting how much some people care almost as much about what happens off court while others care only abut on court, and others still are interested in a bit of both. it makes for different types of fans on some level, perhaps.

for me, it’s both, but more on court than off. novak is a warrior. he’s so tremendously focused and mentally tough that it’s inspirational. i love how he fights through adversity.

but i have to tell you; i know loads and loads of novak fans who are not serbian, married to a serbian, etc. and i think it’s perhaps not right to narrow a player down to just nationalism. he’s a very appealing person and player! lots of people love so many things about him: how kind and generous he is, how fun-loving he is, how dedicated and ambitious he is, how complete his game is, what a fighter he is, how he had to overcome both fed and nadal to achieve what he has done (as well as andy in many slam finals), how he always looks to improve has game.

in short, there are many many reasons to be a nole fan besides national ones.

i would say that there are also many reasons that novak has been treated as or preceived as anti-establishment, as an outcast, if you will. one might be because he was the third wheel who rose up in 2011, broke up the fedal duopoly, and didn’t go away. that year didn’t turn out to be a fluke as many thought it would be. another might be that novak is an outspoken person. a third might be because he’s from a small eastern war-torn country. there are many reasons why people could see him as being an outsider or why he’s been portrayed as such. and these narratives are perpetuated in the media.

you’re the type of fan who pays attention to the on court TENNIS itself, so maybe you miss a lot of those types of stories. for example, i loved how you asked people to live post about the final because you couldn’t be here. we always used to do that here, no matter who we were cheering. but it happens less and less now. i am glad you recognized how little mention novak’s achievement/ or potential benchmark was getting during roland garros. that’s typical with nole. and it’s another reason why some fans see him as marginalized. for others, the hype would be greater.

but it doesn’t matter in the end. things are changing bit by bit. novak is getting more fans all the time. and he is doing wonderfully both on and off court. really, it’s quite an idyllic time for him and his fans.

so it’s all good. interesting discussion though.

June 10th, 2016 at 1:17 pm

@VP

I don’t watch football for years, and I definitely stopped after the final in 2006. Zidane hit the Italian on purpose, for France to lose that final, but he was welcomed as a hero instead of punished. I just couldn’t understand it, neither then, neither now. So I decided that enough was enough.

June 10th, 2016 at 1:19 pm

I’m American and I am a huge Djoko fan. Sorry to burst some people’s bubbles…

June 10th, 2016 at 1:21 pm

Mat 4,

Well, sorry yo hear this. …and hope 1 of the French team will act as Zidane in 2006 tonight ;) Just kidding. Byeees

June 10th, 2016 at 1:22 pm

VP

Don’t you worry. Many members of that team don’t like France at all, I am sure of that.

June 10th, 2016 at 1:26 pm

Jane,

Agree with everyhing you posted I just had an issue with antiestablishment and highlighted that in this forum the establishment with him is more related to nationality. My family all likes him, father, Mother, sister and a female cousin who play as well. We all like Federer as well and me and father don’t like Nadal’s game. My father can’t stand Murray which I don’t get it.

My mother is unique, she loves Fed and Nadal equaliy and when they play she just smiles from face to face, more so when Nadal was winning (most of the time) and seeing how I reacted. I used to argue with here how can she loves them just the same, to me is conundrum.

TV commentors in Brazil are all in awe with Djoko as well, former tennis olayers Maria Ester Bueno (who says techniqie wise Djoko is the most perfect), Meligeni, Flavio Saretta. And the main commentors. All are vert unbiassed towrds the big 4. Different from what some of you guys experience.

But I get the “hate” thing. Heard in a club somebody bad mouting him due to him being serb. There is always these types.

June 10th, 2016 at 1:30 pm

daniel, that’s cool about your family. mine are mostly hockey fans so they don’t really watch too much tennis. guga seems to be a great supporter of novak, so maybe that wins him some brazilian fans. i loved their “road to roland garros” spots on t.v.

June 10th, 2016 at 1:44 pm

Daniel @ 12.06pm
There are only 3 and a half Andy fans on Tennis X.

BBB @ 12.21pm
The English fans rarely warm to Andy unless he wins the Davis Cup single-handed.

June 10th, 2016 at 2:01 pm

who j-kath? margot, rz, yourself and colin is four. but also CDP and the DA are murray fans who sometimes post. in addition, most rafa fans (and some fed fans) cheer for andy over novak all the time, for various reasons, which means that, pre-FO final, you had more (or as much) support on here for andy as you did for nole. so he gets some tennis-x accolades too, lass. ;).

June 10th, 2016 at 2:05 pm

Jane and cf1 (as do probably 99%) understand anti-establishment in the context of sport perfectly.

Daniel Says:
Ok Elina, just different interpretations.

No, just the difference between the definition of the term and your subjectively confined application of it.

June 10th, 2016 at 2:32 pm

Giles,

thanks! nice to hear from you. point is, I’m sick of novak djokovic’s arrogance, not to mention his fans and their failed attempts to shove novak down everybody’s throats.

when i first visited this blog a few years past, the vast majority of the fans here were roger Federer fans; namely, skeezer, mats4, Dannie, sean randall, & some others. fast forward to 2011 when novak made his overnight transformation, beating rafa 6 or 7 times in a row, at which time the same roger’s fans decided since roger was never going to beat rafa more than rafa beat him, they should combine their efforts to protect roger’s grand slams record & his overall legacy; to do that, they felt it would be in their best interest to jump ship and claim novak djokovic as their favorite player as long as he keeps rafa from becoming greater than roger. that is what this is all about! they are lying when they claim they have always admired & supported novak. so much for loyalty to roger!

I believe that all kinds of dirty underhanded things have gone on against rafa nadal, from digging up clay courts changing the speed of them so that other players would have more chances to beat him on clay, to changing balls; to God only knows what else has been done to stop rafa nadal. think about it! what’s the probability of novak getting a high school draw at every tournament. they justify it and then feed their crap to gullible people.

nadal was never in a decline the way they claim; that’s just a smokescreen that commentators, journalists, etc. use to have fans believe that the reason he is not winning tournaments as before is because he is just not the same anymore; bull! nadal can beat any player, anywhere, anytime when he’s on form. sure, he’s had injury problems & struggles to deal with, but any blind man can see he’s a better player than novak djokovic when both of them are at their best. that’s what they are afraid of. if you notice, those in the commentary booths are always putting nadal down and making negative statements about him not being the same nadal, while lifting novak. just another tactic to ensure that nadal & his fans become doubtful and start believing their crap. how many slams does novak have? when has he won 9 majors titles at any tournament, when has he won 8 consecutive titles at any one tournament, when did he win Olympic gold, or dominate any surface the way nadal has dominated clay. when did he win three majors on the three different surfaces in the same season (nadal, 2010). can novak lay claims to an 82-match winning streak on any surface? they don’t discuss nadal’s achievements, which i think is very deliberate. of course, novak has his achievements and nadal has his, but they seek to diminish nadal & his achievements in order to exaggerate novak’s greatness. that’s another one of their sneaky tactics!

bottom line, they don’t want nadal to ever gain his full confidence. they know what a fully confident nadal is capable of doing with a racquet. so they constantly tell the public he’s basically done. they tell novak’s fans & others what they want to hear. right now, they are all hoping and praying that nadal will withdraw from the Olympics. they want him out completely! that’s the only way they can be sure he won’t make another comeback. they assume they are so clever until no one can see through their agenda.
anyway, I don’t expect my opinions to win a popularity contest, but I don’t mind voicing them.

thank you for not being swayed by popular opinion. your endless loyalty to rafa nadal is admirable. he is an extraordinary champion. he deserves it!

June 10th, 2016 at 3:06 pm

mem raises a good point about the number of nole fans (and the odd Monfils fan) that conveniently “forgot” that they used to be fedfans.

June 10th, 2016 at 3:22 pm

Mem,

Classic projection post, go to a psychologist and he will explain.

I don’t have a problem with Djoko beating Federer’ record because if he does so he will
be deserving one. He has a complete game (the flawless techinique I have ever seen in basically all aspect bar smash;-), has no flaws and is not one dimentional. 9 out of 14 Slams on clay is not GOAT material.
I had a problem if Nadal passes Federer because I never saw his gane and how h okays to ve associated with the standard as greatness, it is not suppose to be the game of the GOAT in my view. Fed and Djoko have what it takes and in the end, justice is prevailing. If Novak will be the GOAT, which I think he has a 50% chance I will be more than happy. I am a tennos fan first and O don’t think i have to be “loyal” to a player. The sport I love and practice is bigger than individuals, even tough they reaching new griunds is what makes it so special to watch.

If Nadal was that great as you and many other think he would ve winning more majors, more consistent, win major after 30 and be a dokiant numebr 1. Guess what, he isn’t his time is gone and to me ge already achieved way more than he should and sheer will, mental fortitude, whatever. For this you have to give laud applause to him.

June 10th, 2016 at 3:35 pm

mem. June 10th 3.06 pm. Nailed it.

June 10th, 2016 at 4:08 pm

Rafa distinguished himself as a guy with speed, powerful high spin forehand, endless reservoirs of heart, guts, stamina, will to win.
It worked, he conquered all save Davydenko by some quirk of fequent hardcourt scheduling matchups and Nickolay not seeing him on clay that much. Otherwise, positive H2Hs against the whole Tour Inc. Djokovic until this year. But the 2010 season, Rafa’s greatest and 2011 when Nole 2.0 emerged was the turning point. Djokovic was there after the Nadal slaugherfest left them facing one another in Finals or semis. And Djokovic beat him 6 straight times. At Rafa’s peak.
Nadal calls Djokovic a “nightmare” to play. Djkovic already had equal or better speed, the best backhand vs. Fed’s exploitable 1-hander and inability to hit balls on the rise on his backhand side. Djokoic was never easy pickings for Rafa. Uncle Toni said Novak was the one player he feared playing Rafa on clay, and he said that back in 2008. But it was the mental strength and stamina that was the thing Novak got at the end of 2010 that erased the margin.

Still, Rafa is a true Legend. And Novak fans know while he credits Nadal and Fed equally in forcing him to up his game, Nole 2.0 is 50% Rafa (heart, guts, focus, will to win, stamina) 20% Fed, and 30% his own doings outside those two role models.

I also believe that a good part of Novak’s fans are longtime ones. Like me. It is great fun to pick a player early on, hope they will do well. I picked Novak after his Miami win in 2007 then Delpo and Cilic a year later. Two years ago I picked Milos Raonic not to be a superstar, but capable of winning a big tournament if his serve was red hot a la Tsonga. Wimbledon was my guess.
I am happy with my 1st 3 picks of the last 10 years. All met my expectations, and Djokovic obviously more than met my wildest expectations on top of that. And it is so much more fun when you pick a promising newcomer and follow them until they reach glory, hopefully. Then really enjoy what follows. With Nole, it has been 6 years of glory. I am happy Delpo at least had some opportunities to show his A game and ability to beat Novak, Rafa, and Fed on the bigger stages at times. And Cilic got his Major..

June 10th, 2016 at 4:30 pm

Some continue to confuse facts/definitions with opinions such as G0AT which makes their position flawed from the outset.

They readily dismiss someone like Nadal (or try to) because he has too many French Opens but just three hard court slams and two grass.

But this is just opinion.

Federer, for example has just a single clay slam and, unlike say Novak, when coupled with his losing records (one of which is total domination let’s be honest) with two of his main rivals which might, for some (not necessarily me), dismiss him as compared to say Djokovic and Nadal or even Laver.

June 10th, 2016 at 4:52 pm

My personal criteria for GOAT are:

1) Number of weeks at No1 (No1 is crucial for me as it takes into account every match played)
2) Number of majors
3) Number of WTF
4) Number of masters
5) Other extraordinary achievements

However, there are some deal-breakers:

1) GOAT can’t lose more that 60% of matches against any player that he played at least 15 times.
2) GOAT has to win career slam.
3) GOAT has to win at least one WTF.

June 10th, 2016 at 5:39 pm

mr. Daniel,

if novak djokovic was as great as you claim, he wouldn’t have to use a hyperbaric chamber, and lie about it,add to that, all the other secrets & everything else he has probably done to beat rafa nadal. you & I both know that’s the only way he way he was going to beat him consistently, so save your sermon for Sunday. you are fake, I know it and you know it.

June 10th, 2016 at 5:42 pm

Fed has 7 Wimbledons in his pocket, with 4 AO’s and 5 USO’s. Ok, and 1 FO. I beloeve no matter how you do the math its still the all time Slam leader.

June 10th, 2016 at 6:17 pm

George that’s a pretty good set of criteria!

Mine wouldn’t be far off but I wouldn’t necessarily require all three but certainly some combination and would add some combined DC or Single Olympic golds for instance.

But you and I aren’t far off.
TBH, the margins are slim between the Big 3 IMO but I suspect that Novak will separate himself from the pack before the end of the year

A Wimbledon win would do it for me. No man in the open era has ever won five straight slams. That would be incredible and he’s in a great position to pull it off!

June 10th, 2016 at 6:20 pm

George,
So you said one of your deal breakers is:
“GOAT can’t lose more that 60% of matches against any player that he played at least 15 times.”
So, when he/she has met all of your other criteria, then this criteria(1-5 and deal breakers 1 and 2) is moot as #1 in deal breakers negates GOAT status? Just want to make sure that is what you are saying.

June 10th, 2016 at 6:29 pm

mem, i don’t know if you know this, but just f.y.i.

http://www.10sballs.com/2011/12/03/spanish-davis-cup-team-using-medical-device-to-aid-their-breathing/

June 10th, 2016 at 7:01 pm

???

How could he tell?

June 10th, 2016 at 7:03 pm

Jane @ 2.01

Oh yes, Jane there are a number of posters who support Andy as their No.2 “to support” – and I don’t think Okiegal will mind if I mention her as an example.

However, at the risk of sounding very parochial, I’m Scottish, Margo is Welsh, think RZ may be English and BBB said English”. Not fair? Yes..we are really talking British.

Didn’t know Andy was Colin’s favourite and don’t know who DA is? Not too bothered as Andy is a bit of a Jekyll and Hyde and appreciate that those of us who have been caught by his tortured soul can’t escape.

I am more shocked by venom directed at Nole, even if only by a handful than the lack of Tennis X support for Andy.

I confess I am a bit cynical in the case of Federer while admiring his grace and results. I do have great admiration for Nole and Nadal. While not quite in the same category I also like Stan and Monfils and Tsonga.

The younger players: With memories of MacEnroe I quite enjoy the antics some of them bring. However, none of them ready yet, althouth Thiem seems the most serious.

June 10th, 2016 at 7:08 pm

hey j-kath, i am a fan of monfils and tsonga as well. both have suffered way too many injuries unfortunately, and monfils is a bit of a, hmmm, shall we say, not very focused? at least tsonga, when he sets his mind to it, can really make is way through a draw, which is why he’s one of very few players who has beaten all of fed, rafa, andy, and novak at a slam.

indeed there is some serious venom thrown around in general within tennis fandom, which is so different that team sports, where the anger is diffused and less targeted.

June 10th, 2016 at 7:23 pm

Yes Jan

If possible, let me know what your friend says re. the No. 2 placement at Wimbledon if possible (on another thread). Off to bed. Stay Well.

June 10th, 2016 at 7:43 pm

Meant “Jane”.

June 10th, 2016 at 7:44 pm

Jane,what to say to You, I used to say many times:You are the best Nole,s fan and for long time now.I am sure Nole is proud of fans like You and other his fans from this site.It look like some people are not happy that he has more and more fans.
Cheers dear Jane,mat4,wog boy,chrisford1, VP, Daniel,George,TB,Ben Pronin, and many others…..

June 10th, 2016 at 7:44 pm

“if novak djokovic was as great as you claim, he wouldn’t have to use a hyperbaric chamber, and lie about it,add to that, all the other secrets & everything else he has probably done to beat rafa nadal. you & I both know that’s the only way he way he was going to beat him consistently, so save your sermon for Sunday. you are fake, I know it and you know it.”

I don’t know how the rock bottom of depression looks like, but this looks like it, this is critical stage when you have to look for professional help or else..

As for Daniel being fake, can’t be further from truth, since I am here (around seven years), he was honest in showing his like and respect for Roger and Nole, and dislike for Rafa. Do I agree with Daniel, not necessarily, but I like to read his posts and how he puts nicely facts and stats to suit his cause, you can’t blame him for that ;)

June 10th, 2016 at 8:05 pm

JK: “I am more shocked by venom directed at Nole”

Unfortunately, I am not shocked by this at all. It’s happened before, to Rafa.

And now Nole is just doing too much for some posters’ comfort. It doesn’t help that tennis legends like Rod Laver and Pete Sampras shower Nole with much appreciation.

But as a Nole fan, I enjoy it. Nole might not, but I do.

On the other hand, some fans are reasonable and are fans of tennis in general. Like the guy in this youtube video. I don’t know him personally, but he professes to be a Fed fan…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHJQrCn5zBk

June 10th, 2016 at 8:15 pm

jane,

how nice to hear from you.
I am completely aware, but does the breathing machine give players the same effects as does the hyperbaric chamber? correct me if i’m wrong, but it is my understanding that the hyperbaric chamber is very powerful and performance enhancing. in fact, it is said to have twice the potency of blood doping. it is used to increase stamina and endurance, promote fast recovery. I’m not sure the same can be said of the breathing machine. you probably already know all of this, but if you have more information, particularly about the breathing machine, please share. i may have missed something! thanks!

June 10th, 2016 at 8:28 pm

thanks bojana!! xx

June 10th, 2016 at 8:29 pm

Is hyperbaric chamber illegal or banned?

June 10th, 2016 at 8:34 pm

wogboy,

whether it’s legal or illegal doesn’t lessen its’ effect on the human body? in other words, it’s still performance enhancing, and for me that is equivalent to an unfair advantage.

June 10th, 2016 at 9:10 pm

Giles, by all means, post links to matches where Federer exhibited affirmative sportmanslike behavior. Clapping for another opponent’s shot, quieting the crowd when they were raucous on his behalf at another player’s expense. I have not seen it; it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist, but youtube should make it easy enough to prove me wrong.

There are those like Tennis Vagabond who like Federer while acknowledging that the hype of his sportsmanlike behavior is overblown, to put it kindly.

J-Kath, I am an unabashed Anglophile, but half American half Canadian. I admit to not really liking Andy Murray at first, but his authenticity and true decency have won me over.

June 10th, 2016 at 9:35 pm

mem, performance enhancement is permitted unless it’s not. Where do you draw the line? The way you write, the line seems to be on the other side of whatever Nadal does.

June 10th, 2016 at 9:36 pm

BBB,
Fed does not clap, thats his thing, so?
He’s not a whiner either like u know who.
So? Just win baby!

June 10th, 2016 at 10:10 pm

George,

You forgot to add in number of year end number 1’s. Sampras has the record with 6. Federer has 5. Djokovic 4. Nadal 3?

June 10th, 2016 at 10:14 pm

Question, if comes to choose between weeks as #1 and number of years finishing as #1, what would you value as more important. Example, Nole finishes next two years as #1 (that’s 6 years) but doesn’t beat Roger’s number of the weaks as #1?

June 10th, 2016 at 10:36 pm

BBB,

like i said, performance enhancing is performance enhancing which amounts to unfair advantage, which amounts to taking away an equal playing field for all players.

btw, the way you write, your lines seem to be on the other side of whatever djokovic does. i guess we have something in common.

June 10th, 2016 at 10:58 pm

Wog Boy,

I believe with Nole that if he finishes this year and next year as the year end number 1, he will also end up with the most total weeks at number 1 as well. He is such a complete player and is good on all surfaces. The only player that can realistically take away his number 1 ranking for any period of time at this point is Andy Murray. But after watching the French Open final, what I said before the match hold true. I have not seen Murray be able to stay with Nole in a best of 5 set match physically in a long time. He got tired in the 2015 Australian Open final. He ran out of gas in the French Open semi-final last year. He can’t keep up with Nole playing such intense physical tennis. He started getting a second wind in the fourth set again. But he needed that sustained in the 2nd and 3rd sets. Nole can wear Andy out and he knows it. Thiem is the only one of the young ones that could do it and it’s not happening yet. He needs more time. Federer and Nadal can’t do it all year round to take it away even for a few weeks. Wawrinka is to inconsistent. Nishikori will never be able to do it. Raonic just can’t match up against Nole period. It’s a huge matchup issue. So I just don’t see that being an issue. I think they will go hand in hand if Nole is to accomplish year end number 1 in 2016 and 2017.

June 10th, 2016 at 11:15 pm

As far as your question goes, the media seems to talk a lot more about total weeks at number 1 more than year end number 1’s. You almost forget that Pete is the one with that record and barely has less weeks at number 1 than Federer. I might be wrong but it seems like the media seems to put the weeks at number 1 as more important. But to me I would say the 6 year end number 1’s beats 5 and a few more weeks at number 1 still doesn’t even it out.

June 10th, 2016 at 11:19 pm

Thanks for the 8:05 post WB!

June 11th, 2016 at 1:08 am

Daniel,

I enjoy your posts as well. And often tend to agree with much of what you have to say. We think the same on a lot of topics. You seem real to me as well and respectful.

June 11th, 2016 at 1:13 am

Geroge,

Basically, from your list, you just claim Federer is the GOAT because he only doesn’t fill 1 item of your deal breaker list.

As I said before, if we go by elimination, the one with most and the least gaps, it’s Federer.

Nadal can’t be GOAT by your list due to all items 1-5, there is always someone ahead of him and Djoko neither as well at this point.

So, if their three careers end today, Federer is still the GOAT, because Federer is on top of Djoko and Nadal in anything apart from total Masters.

It’s what mainly are saying for years, the body of work and less gaps is Federer and Djoko now is in a very good position to overtaking him, because he, different from Nadal, is filling all the main criteria (weeks as #1, year end #1, Major titles, career Slam, WTF titles, Masters leader).

he needs 2 more titles to have the most complete resume ever: Olympics and Cincinnati. There will be no flaws. If he wins USO again, he will have like Federer, defended all major titles, and next year he will have a chance on the double career Slam and defend his RG title having defended all majors. I think if he does this 2 things I will consider him GOAT even if he doesn’t tie or surpass 17. This year USO and next year RG, and he will a complete package, also having won 3 or more Slams in three different Slams, something only Federer has.

People overlook it but the balance of Federer Slams is astonishing and only Djoko can match that.

Also Djoko is on current streaks in QF, Semis and Finals in Slams, and when all is said and done we will see Federer and Djoko’s name on top of every list regarding consistency in majors plus number of matches won as well.

Late, as Dave mention in other thread, if his body permit Djoko will also target the longevity records and total titles (top 3) as Federer is doing now.

It’s getting clear and clear that debate will be between only between the two pretty soon.

June 11th, 2016 at 1:22 am

Also like your posts a lot, as well Dave,

Agree regarding Sampras, that’s why to me he is on top of Nadal if Nadal remain with 14 in the infamous GOAT debate, because even tough Sampras doesn’t have French Open (career Slam), he is leader and second in number 1 records, Year End #1 and Total weeks. Tome that is way moreimgportant than career Slam, which only grew in popularity because Fedal did it back to back years.

June 11th, 2016 at 1:26 am

Also, Djoko’s only vulnerability this season will be Wimbledon R16 or Quarters depending who he faces when the grass still is “new” and he can have a scare like Anderson match last year. Once in semis he will raise his level and maybe only Murray in a final could have a chance.

So the risk for him is facing a serve bomb or somebody having the match of his life in one of this 2 rounds. He won’t lose first week because mainly low ranked players.

This year #1 rank is almost locked (that would tie him in second with Federer), Murray would have to win next 2 majors and minimum 2 more Masters to have a chance.

Wog Boy, I think total weeks has more impact because is the number that comes to mind. For example the 6 year end by Sampras is only mentioned after somebody brings the total weeks record. It means more because it showed that you dominated for more weeks. Sampras played a bunch of small tourney and indoors (back in the day) to get back to #1 in time for year end. He got 6 straight but he didn’t lost ad got it back as Fed, Nadal and Djoko, who could be seen as an even more difficult achievement.

Also I am curious to see how will be Djoko’s consecutive weeks as number 1, he is reaching half of Federer 237, if he can get closer to that he will basically break all #1 records.

June 11th, 2016 at 1:36 am

Deal-breaker is a deal-breaker. You can’t be “owned” by another player and be GOAT, you have to win on all surfaces to be GOAT and you have to win Top8 competition at least once. Out of those who overcome all 3 conditions, the one who has most No1 weeks/end of the year, majors etc is the GOAT.

June 11th, 2016 at 2:03 am

Just to make clear that I didn’t tailor these criteria to suit a specific player; it is just my honest opinion what a player needs to be considered GOAT.

June 11th, 2016 at 2:07 am

Ive just come out of my time machine, which has gone back 5 years, to the year 2011 ….

June 11th, 2016 at 2:18 am

George Says:
Deal-breaker is a deal-breaker. You can’t be “owned” by another player and be GOAT, you have to win on all surfaces to be GOAT and you have to win Top8 competition at least once. Out of those who overcome all 3 conditions, the one who has most No1 weeks/end of the year, majors etc is the GOAT.

June 11th, 2016 at 2:03 am

Not sure i understand your post George. As it stands, Federer is the GOAT, but oh this argument has been thrown around for years and is done to death.

We all have our own opinions on this, of course. But with Fed also consistently beating top 8 players 6 times at WTF, that counts for a lot too, outside of the slams. Remember also that last year, Roger broke Novak’s winning streak – it is certainly a great talking point but where no one will agree.

June 11th, 2016 at 3:25 am

Federer is the first player to win more than 5 titles at the World Tour Finals. Federer is the first and only player to reach 10 finals overall and 13 semifinals. He has appeared in the 8-man year-end tournament 14 consecutive times and is the only player to achieve this feat in the open era.

Time Span Records Accomplished Players Matched
2003–2011 6 titles overall Stands alone
2003–2015 10 finals overall Stands alone
2002–2015 13 semifinals overall Stands alone
52 match wins overall Stands alone
14 appearances overall Stands alone
14 consecutive appearances Stands alone

WTF should not be underestimated by any means.

June 11th, 2016 at 3:30 am

i belive rafael nadal will be same player again like in his best years….if he admits publicky that he is gay…i am sure all his fans and people will accept and understand his sexual orientation…there is nothing wrong to be homosexual those days….come on rafa get some balls and say it and get ur mojo back we need competition in tennis at this moment

June 11th, 2016 at 3:33 am

@madmax: OK. According to my criteria:

1) At the moment, Federer can’t be GOAT due to 11:23. However, if he comes to 16:23, he can be GOAT.

2) At the moment, Nadal can’t be GOAT as he never won Top8 tournament (WTF). If he wins it, he can be GOAT.

3) At the moment, Djokovic can be GOAT. However, if it happens that he ends up with <40% wins against any player he played at least 15 times, he can't be GOAT. As an example: if Federer ends his H2H with Djokovic 35:23, Djokovic is not GOAT, or if Thiem ends up with his H2H with Djokovic 10:5, Djokovic is no GOAT.

June 11th, 2016 at 3:45 am

A definition of “deal breaker” as I use it here:

“A deal breaker is ‘the catch’ that a particular individual cannot overlook and ultimately outweighs any redeeming quality the individual may possess.”

June 11th, 2016 at 3:49 am

Another term to describe deal breaker it would be to say “Conditio sine qua non”, meaning “[a condition] without which it could not be”.

June 11th, 2016 at 3:52 am

While I don’t care about GOAT debate, I would like to write a few words about HB chambers.

There are two effects of HB chambers: first, it helps healing microinjuries, since our skin breathes. For this effect, you use a hyperB chamber, for a short time, helping muscles to get more oxygen.

It can help with blood, simulating high altitude training. You have to use it for a longer period of time, like a hypoB.

All rich sport federation have a HB chamber. Generally, athletes sleep in it for a month before big competitions.

The Zoneair3D company produces a pure air bubble, but the pressure can be changed, despite the troubling marketing where it is not stated.

Djokovic can’t own a HB chamber in Monte Carlo, although he could have one in Serbia. It has to do with regulations in most countries in EU. One could reasonably ask why players go to exotic countries, or the US for preparations, when in Europe they can get the same facilities for training. Some even go to Kenya…

It’s much simpler to have a HB chamber in the US and Australia. We know that Novak and a few other players openly used one for helping recovery in Australia. As I wrote before, a few Australian players own a HB chamber.

The use of HB chambers is widespread, although Novak, as so often, seems to be the only culprit, despite being one of the few players that goes for altitude training. I wrote that Sam Stosur, LLeyton Hewitt, Rafa Nadal had their own, but it’s not repeated in the press. I wouldn’t be surprised if many other players had their own, especially in countries where you can legally own one.

June 11th, 2016 at 4:51 am

@mat4: There are people on this forum who are beyond any discussion. Revealing use of HB chambers is like revealing use of vitamins, high altitude training, eating food or drinking water. Nadal openly use stem cells, which rebuilds you de novo, and this is not a problem and I don’t think that it should be a problem.

June 11th, 2016 at 5:07 am

@George:

I agree. And I am really tired of it. I hoped that a forum of this kind is to root for your fav, but also to develop friendship in your “computer time”.

Certain topics are very sensitive, and are a rich soil for dispute. I regret that many times I felt provoked to answer, in a way I don’t like myself. On the other side, I met here many sensible and nice posters, and I enjoy interacting with them.

June 11th, 2016 at 6:43 am

mem, how old are you? I’m not criticizing anything Nadal has done to enhance performance. You are blessing what Nadal does, while distinguishing it from what Djokovic did. Hence your most self-interested line drawing.

Skeeze, that’s fine – as people here know, my beef with Federer is that tales of his sportsmanship are greatly exaggerated, and the sportsmanship of others greatly underappreciated.

June 11th, 2016 at 7:06 am

“..my beef with Federer is that tales of his sportsmanship are greatly exaggerated, and the sportsmanship of others greatly underappreciated.”

I’ll buy you a drink for that one BBB.

BTW, mem is not a spring chicken, actually she stopped laying the eggs..

June 11th, 2016 at 7:16 am

Daniel is right that it’s down to two (not for much longer as soon as Wimbledon).

George is right that it can’t be someone with such a poor record against one player.

Well said guys!

June 11th, 2016 at 7:43 am

I agree that Nole’s most vulnerable in the 4th round or QF’s of Wimbledon. I might be one of the only ones here that thinks he should have played 1 tune up tournament for that very reason. Exhibition matches aren’t real matches. These Anderson type matches are very dangerous. I agree that once Nole gets to the Semi-Finals, I don’t see him losing, as he will up his level, which always seems to be the case lately. On the flip side, Nole really would do well mentally to rest for 3 weeks, without needing to be in any official tournaments. So in the long run of the tournament it serves him well, in the short run he is more vulnerable to an upset. Another difference with Wimbledon is even though it’s best of 5 sets, big servers can breeze through their games faster. So Nole’s fitness doesn’t always play a part in the match, which again can make him more vulnerable. At the U.S. Open, he can use his fitness as an advantage over 5 sets. The pressure might end up being more at the U.S. Open. But if you take the pressure out, winning the title in my opinion will be harder this year at Wimbledon. Kyrgios could be very dangerous on grass this year. Raonic as well. Theim. Karlovic, Isner. Wawrinka. There are lost of dangerous matches that could happen, depending on how the draw plays out.

June 11th, 2016 at 9:15 am

Also, the RG win may have placed him in a state of satisfaction that he may not be in the same urge for Wimbledon as last 2 years. I think at this point he is more favorite for USO (even there having more threats) than Wimby.

But of course, he will want the channel Slam (RG-WImby back to back) in a year, another feat of FEDAL and he knows what it will represent, Grand Slam this season.

But the thing on his side is that I can only see 3 players winning Wimbledon: Djoko, Murray or Federer. Big 4 dominate it since 2003 and it will remain so a few more years to come.

This is the place Murray has best shot against Novak, actually, is the only Slam HxH match that Djoko doesn’t have, a win over Murray in Wimby. He beat all over Big 4 in all Slam.

June 11th, 2016 at 9:48 am

I agree Daniel. Federer didn’t look that great today. But I won’t use this week as an indicator for Federer, as he is just coming back into action. He will play himself into shape during the early rounds of Wimbledon. For some reason though, this year at Wimbledon reminds me more of 2014 for Federer, where he struggled a bit more to get into the final. Where 2015, his form was brilliant to get to the final. Do you think if Federer is on Murray’s half that Murray can beat Federer? The only thing about this year is that Federer doesn’t look physically like he is in top shape at the moment. He looks like he gets tired easier. I think this year will be similar for Federer as well, where Federer will be more vulnerable to a 3rd, 4th or QF upset this year. I still would pick Federer over Murray in a SF match. I would rather Murray won, but would pick him to do it.

June 11th, 2016 at 10:05 am

I think Murray is due for a big win over Federer, last year Federer played the best match e played in almost 2 years.

But I will only fancy Fed’s chance if he wins Halle. And have tools this draw in Wimby too. He needs a confidence boost.

June 11th, 2016 at 10:15 am

Might just be that GOAT has to dispensed with and we just go with best in their era, best at a certain skillset, best in a selected grouping of relevant statistics.

Maybe the solution for the Federer Djokovic question , which isn’t easy because of overlapping areas and the huge impact of Rafa on both, would be;

1. Federer is the most decorated player of the 2000s.
2. Djokovic is the best player of the 2000s.
3. Nadal is the toughest player of the 2000s, and the King of Clay.

June 11th, 2016 at 10:25 am

“Federer is the first and only player to reach 10 finals overall and 13 semifinals.”
“WTF should not be underestimated by any means.”

Did Roger play 10 finals? Or did he play 9? He excused himself from playing Nole on one occasion and made his announcement on the morning of the match.

June 11th, 2016 at 10:29 am

Only one Big 4 player dominating tennis for the last two years ICYMI with no visible sign of change in the foreseeable future.

Hope this helps!

June 11th, 2016 at 10:49 am

@7:16 post
Yeah yeah same ole stuff from the minority. Thats why he has the all time record of sporstmenship awards. Oh wait, its your opinion? Ooops, sorry.

June 11th, 2016 at 11:29 am

If H2H was such a big detrmining factor you wouldn’t have to have GS or masters or weeks being #1 in the world, etc. Where in the records do you see that H2H IS the defacto deal breaker that determines GOAT? Its the minority few here that keep pounding that failing song. Roger is going to lose many more matches before he retires, and so will Novak, when he gets of age. Mouth off now, pay up later.

June 11th, 2016 at 11:33 am

Nope. Wrong.

Sampras and Agassi both on record saying that fed being owned is a BIG factor otherwise there’d really be little argument.

But it so obviously is to anyone not a fedfan (and it is to them as well even more except they won’t admit it publicly).

Won’t matter much longer as Novak will likely soon pass them both as soon as wimbles. Five in a row. Harder than the calendar slam.

June 11th, 2016 at 11:50 am

Nope. Wrong again. Sampras and Agassi were not wrong, you just twisted it, as you do your stat findings. It can be a factor but is not the overall determing factor if someone has better all time records than the others. Just face the facts and hope someone other than Federer breaks those records. It is ridiculous to say that on e player is better than the other, this is not listed anywhere in the record books of all time records.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-time_tennis_records_–_men%27s_singles

—
“Won’t matter much longer as Novak will likely soon pass them both as soon as wimples..”
Now your talking…..IF. I’ll be here to congratulate Nole if he surpasses Feds GS titles.

June 11th, 2016 at 12:31 pm

Nope. Ironically you twisted it.

No one including myself said it was the main factor to determine g0at.

But it is the one factor that Sampras and Agassi bring up against Roger being g0at.

Reading comprehension not your forte. Lmao.

June 11th, 2016 at 12:36 pm

“Might just be that GOAT has to dispensed with and we just go with best in their era, best at a certain skillset, best in a selected grouping of relevant statistics.”

From your lips to God’s ears.

June 11th, 2016 at 12:39 pm

Mem hopped on the Novak hate bandwagon.
Novak fans are actually increasing because there’s special
substance in tennis, more than the demeaning rubbish from 2003-2004.
People are so used to low intellect from 2003-4 that
they believe novak was being propagandized, like the Fed propaganda.

Novak wore down fedalray so no matter how many A+ comebacks
they had, they couldn’t push him down.
July-September 2007, January 2008-may 2008,
2011, January-June 2012, 2014-2016 Novak with B game
still beats peak 2004, 2006-2009, 2011, 2013-2016 fedal.
Even murray had good matches against fed in 2006-2009.
Fed cursed at him because murray destroyed fed’s 5 set record.

Tennis still is not depressing at all to the big 4.
Nadal may be jealous of Novak’s 4 straight slams but
he’s still a nice guy.
Fed did a bizarrely realistic acting job in a video
where he “pretended” to be
belligerent, disrespectful + hateful in a Novak Skype chat.
That didn’t take GOAT talent to do so.

Strange because fed had no problem with the crappiest
players in history in 2004.
He called Roddick his great “man”. Lmao

Fed clearly said he ENJOYED “Roddick playing the joke on Novak”
with the vile bandwagon hating that Roddick was accustomed to
during Pat McEnroe’s espn desperate sycophantic, deluded commentating…

Roddick was a real “symbol” of usa tennis
in 2008. He believed he was fake mcenroe,
fake tennis superstar
and “wrestling” psycho!
Terribly dimwitted & pointless.
Tennis fans were cheering for him,
but the self-aggrandizing deceitful clown was only out for the $$$$$!
He was always injured by his 50 mph serve motion
in 2008, but he mocked Novak’s health problems.
He claims his insults were the same as Novak’s funny imitations on court of fed’s arrogance plus Roddick’s predictable serve rushing/buttock protrusion.
Being a “joke” to tennis and humanity with
his sycophant need for appreciation of his
violent hatred toward tennis & Novak,
his fake ‘fed love’ during fed matches, his bipolar disorder,
bulimia, faking injury, lack of game plans
in fed matches, and whatever plague-like disaster that wasn’t mentioned!

I guess you can blame novak for causing nadal’s mental and physical
breakdown which resulted in Nadal taking
time off if tennis and getting superpower in his
serve to conquer novak who had played countless matches
during Nadal’s “refreshing” injury lay offs in 2010 & 2013.
Let’s face it, Nadal was resilient but he wasn’t the best player of 2013.
He just added more unrequired clay matches just
before ”13 year end championship to get him to #1 in points rank.
At least Nadal won several slams against Novak, who was lackluster,
putting too much pressure on himself then not focusing on serving better
in 2012-2014.

June 11th, 2016 at 1:11 pm

@skeezer: H2H is indeed a minor factor if it is not lopsided over large number of matches. No GOAT can be regularly beaten by any player.

June 11th, 2016 at 1:29 pm

BBB,

age has nothing to do with facts!

June 11th, 2016 at 2:47 pm

skeezer says:

“Now your talking…..IF. I’ll be here to congratulate Nole if he surpasses Feds GS titles.”
(June 11th, 2016 at 12:31 pm)

I guess in the same way you were here to congratulate Nole for winning for majors in a row – by posting some basketball drivel (‘go warriors’) and not mentioning history in making.
Spare us your hypocrisy, man!

June 11th, 2016 at 3:30 pm

Baa,

i assume you are saying because I’m bold enough to state the facts, I’m suppose to be a hater. well, I can’t control your thoughts nor do I want too. however, I will explain some things to you.

why would I hate novak’s accomplishments when I don’t believe achieved them on his own merit? you & others like you are free to paint whatever color picture you like but the facts still remain novak djokovic would not be able to consistently beat certain players without the help of the hyperbaric chambers among other things. he’s a good tennis player, but he’s is not that good. I also consider the impact of the physical & mental side of sports which I am very familiar with.

like I said, you guys are free to believe whatever you choose, but as for me, and I’m not the only one, it’s highly unlikely that he won 24 masters, etc. in 5 years by his own talent & skills. you may buy it, but don’t try to sell it to me. call it hate or whatever suits your fancy, it doesn’t change a thing.

you may even justify by it saying other players use the hyperbaric chamber as well. that maybe true, but don’t you think it’s strange that none of them can compete anywhere near the level of novak. it is public knowledge that andy murray tried the gluten-free diet after novak claimed that it was the reason for his tremendous success. ask murray what happened to him? he was weak and without energy & losing weight until he could bearly stand. andy wasn’t the only player who tried it, unsuccessfully. so why is it that out of all the players who have tried to follow novak’s gluten free diet, it only works for novak? my theory is, it’s because novak is not telling the whole story of his methods. gluten free is just a small part of what he is doing.

also, if you noticed, commentators, journalists, sportswriters in general will not touch the topic of what novak is doing to remain on top. other players want to know, fans want to know too. the way he stretches his muscles, almost week in and week out takes a toll on the muscles and the body overall. doesn’t matter how good you are as a player, the human body has a limit. what players you know are able to go an entire season, constantly winning as he does, but does not suffer a physical and/or mental down period at some point. not to mention, that same player starts all over in January doing the same thing. you don’t have to be a brain surgeon to figure out there has to be something else going on.

why do you think, everything gets quiet, hush, hush, every time someone brings up the possibility of novak publicizing his antidoping test history. why does everybody refuse to discuss it. prior to nadal authorizing the release of his, the same fans on this blogs and blogs across the internet were constantly complaining about something more needs to be done in terms of antidoping controls. all of sudden, after nadal made his decisions, it’s no longer a topic for discussion. they are no longer interested; my guess is they fear that something may be revealed about their favorite player. these fans make a lot of noise but when it come right down to it, they are nothing but hot air. they wanted to used nadal as the scapegoat, so everybody else can hide behind him. they can make him the poster body for cheating & that would devert attention away from novak, sharapova, whoever. nadal handled his business by filing a lawsuit & having his test history publicized. since they can no longer hide behind him, everybody is quiet when the topic arises.

bottom line, novak fans are free to believe whatever they choose. as for me, things are not always as they appear.

June 11th, 2016 at 3:34 pm

I have got to learn to take time to proof. should be, “poster boy”

June 11th, 2016 at 3:40 pm

Exactly George. That was Andre and Petes point along with nadals other accomplishments.

Even laver no longer thinks Roger is defacto g0at.

June 11th, 2016 at 3:42 pm

Skeezer – “If H2H was such a big detrmining factor you wouldn’t have to have GS or masters or weeks being #1 in the world, etc.”

===============
You do realize, my friend, that tennis tournaments do not exist to frame GOAT quals as the sine qua non of their reason for being, right?

The sport exists to make money at tournaments, create competition, get corporate sponsors and media broadcast deals, maybe even inspire kids on the odd day here and there. The infrastructure, rankings system was not put in place to find the solitary GOAT.

GOAT-talk is just a parlor game and endless open ended debate argument. Half the fans don’t believe a GOAT is possible. Just best in era overall, or at a particular thing and perhaps technology and technique won’t change enough to make some comparisons to worthies across eras.

Within his era, though, Fed and everyone else on Tour came up short against Nadal in his best years except Davydenko and then Djokovic. Novak was the only player Uncle Toni feared would seriously challenge Rafa back in the 2008-09 time period. And the stats say Novak has been a better player than Rafa for the last 6 years – but who still needed years to catch up on his H2H with Rafa. Fed and Andy I believe will end up being considered as owned by Rafa. Djoko will not be. And part of the Big 4 legacy will be the close rivalries Novak had with Rafa and Fed. He will likely have a positive H2H against each of the other Big 4 guys, may be credited with “owning” Andy – but not remembered as thoroughly outclassing Fed or Rafa. The rivalries were too good, and to close, to call it that way.

June 11th, 2016 at 3:44 pm

@mem: Problem is that Djokovic is protected by Super-Powerful Serbian Political Lobby. He is so globally popular that riots would happen if he goes down. Washington, London, Paris would be in flames. Nike, Moet, Rolex and other multinationals also protect him. They all conspire to make Novak Djokovic GOAT. It is long-lasting ATP dream that a Serbian guy is GOAT and they will not stop until this has happened.

June 11th, 2016 at 3:52 pm

I have just realised that my comment is to be moderated. As I do not intend to endure this form of discrimination, I will stop commenting and reading this blog. This is my last comment.

June 11th, 2016 at 4:00 pm

Baa – What is the thing you have about Roddick. Certainly not an all-time great, but far more than a servebot and he was the guy that kept the torch lit the Americans for 10 years in Top 10 as the only Yank of real consequence.
Only thing I can think of that could give you such a hard spot about Roddick is him being the only player of note with a positive H2H against Novak. Andy is a fairly glib, bright guy, and though he has obvious flawa, he does well in humorous give and take chat. His joke on that H2H is that it forced him to retire before Djokovic could level things. He also jokingly credits himself with forcing Novak to get a great return of serve after their early encounters in 2006, 07.
These days, they get along, USO frictions claimed to be, long in the past. On his show, Roddick also said in his later years he had some hard but really entertaining practice sessions with Novak.
And no – Roddick was not in one of the American warplanes that bombed Serbia.

June 11th, 2016 at 4:05 pm

“…came up short against Nadal in his best years except Davydenko ..”
So Davy must be the GOAT. Got it.

June 11th, 2016 at 4:26 pm

George,

if you say so!

June 11th, 2016 at 5:54 pm

Mem, it is true that age has nothing to do with facts. However, in your little squabble with me, you are not marshalling facts but rather making kindergarten-like retorts. “I know you are but what am I!” Is that the best you can do?

June 11th, 2016 at 6:06 pm

George don’t do that, we were all moderated at certain stages, of course Nole and Rafa fans are moderated very rarely if ever the GOAT ones. Stay here.

June 11th, 2016 at 6:24 pm

BBB

the only squabble that you think is going on between you and me is in your mind.
you have a huge misunderstanding sweetheart. what squabble with you? I responded to your post. you can hardly call that a squabble. i needed to break some things down to you, it is obvious you have a hard time understanding why i don’t respect novak’s achievements post 2011. it’s just that, i don’t think he obtained them through fair play. i believe that titles and records should be achieved through hard work and individual merit, fair play. simple as that! hope that clears up your concerns.

June 11th, 2016 at 6:27 pm

andy roddick background is from serbia his grandparents are serbian…his father was into biznis so he changed his surname to sound more american to be more sucesful and accepted in his work….novak reminded him of his origin but andy didnt like it cos he grow up like real proud american…there is no shame to accept where ur real roots are…but such gay primadona like anddy didnt take it well…..i cant stand him…..i gladd his playboy bunny gf cheating and making idiot of him…he certainly deserves it

June 11th, 2016 at 6:42 pm