I hope he remembers the last time he won a slam!

June 21st, 2016 at 12:15 pm

James, it’s been so long ago that he’s probably forgotten that too, lol…

June 21st, 2016 at 1:36 pm

Guys, let’s lover the bar for a has-been, slams are too much these days:
Does he remember the last time he won a tournament? Nothing in 2016 and half year is already gone.

Despite all the efforts to make him more relevant, such as this ATP feature, he is slowly but surely fading out from casual fans memory because the only think that can keep you relevant are results – something Federer is lacking… unless you count two semifinals in a row recently (nothing to sneeze at)…

June 21st, 2016 at 2:48 pm

AWW Those two little girls are adorable, i see more of their father in these pictures, cutie, tootie, fruitie ….

June 21st, 2016 at 2:57 pm

And best of luck at SW19 ….

June 21st, 2016 at 3:02 pm

I have some issues with “some things Federer”, but no one can deny he loves the sport as much as anyone who ever played.

June 21st, 2016 at 4:51 pm

travis – nasty nasty… “Does he remember the last time he won a tournament? Nothing in 2016 and half year is already gone.” did you forget that he has hardly played this year at all? Wow!!! At least you gave him credit for his two semis… Coming in to the Stuttgart I think he had played 5 matches to everyone else who had played all season. Not to mention, let’s see where some of the others are when they are 35….play nice travis.. give a little respect to someone who not only loves the sport as chrisford1 said, but also because he has played all these years and he is #3 (more b/c he had not played or he would still be #2.. not bad for a “has-been”

June 21st, 2016 at 7:10 pm

@Pam,

My sincere apologies if my post has hurt you personally! It was certainly not my intention.

I based my “has-been” assessment on Federer last GS match played, i.e. AO 2016 semi. The trashing he received in the first two sets could not be rationalized differently than someone who used to be competitive and now is being humiliated in a match that matters, hence my “has-been” assessment.
It was further solidified by losing on his favourite grass surface by two relatively mediocre grass players (Thiem and Zverev). I believe Roger Federer is now firmly in the Hewitt territory of has beens.

You are, of course, free to disagree and shower Roger with all love and respect. Demanding it from others, however, is a bit self-centered.

June 21st, 2016 at 7:44 pm

Federer has nothing left to prove Pamela so dont worry, he stills loves and enjoys the game, its all gravy ….

June 22nd, 2016 at 1:46 pm

Thanks Willow, I agree. @ Travis, your post did not “personally” hurt me, but thank you for that (I think you’re sincere. hard to tell in a posting) I again say that Federer had hardly played and honestly…. at one point when he was not going after balls that went to the side lines I was hoping he was not feeling back pain. I don’t think you can say Thiem is a mediocre grass court player. I think we saw he has stepped up. He did get his ass kicked in the final last week, but I think he was probably exhausted. Anyway, both Thiem and Zverev will be forces to reckon with and I think it will be fun watching them get to be top players. Travis, I do disagree and “shower Roger with all love and respect”… not my style (although I do give the man a great deal of respect) and I don’t think I “demanded” anything.. Just asked for a bit of respect for someone who has been an amazing player for years and years. The man is 35 years old… I don’t think “has been” is an accurate term, nor do I think he is anything like Hewitt, but we are all entitled to our own opinions. I am on this site often, and I read everyone’s comments, yours included (and I always enjoy yours, whether I agree or not).. I like to contribute, but only do so when I feel I have something to say. Travis, the difference of opinions is what makes these sites so much fun, not to mention what makes the world go round. I do however, agree with Willow… excellent comment Willow and very true…I do wonder where Novak, Rafa and Andy will be in the ratings in another 5 years… will be interesting to watch what their rankings are at Roger’s age…in the meantime I am looking forward to Wimbledon.

June 22nd, 2016 at 2:26 pm

On the article topic itself, I find the diet and everyday work and rec differences between players interesting.

Federer never cooking is a surprise. Heard he likes simple video games. Fashion. Summer hikes n the Alps though Mirka isn’t able to walk very far. Much of his life is walled off from the public, in many ways, a enigma.

Venus is a vegetarian, and a fashion stylist.
Serena is a true omnivore and fast food buff, who said she has to limit herself to 3 Chik-Fil-As when in cities that have that chain..
Sharapova’s entourage includes a full time stylist and a private chef, or it did pre-Meldonium ban.
Rafa enjoys cooking for his family, which also has the superstar doing dishes. Sliced his finger up pretty good on food prep once. Favorite is seafood. Obviously. Disagrees with Djokovic – diet not important – its just enjoyable fuel. Maniac for golf and football.
Djokovic has as many off court diversions and interests as Nadal has tics, superstitions, rituals. Big time foodie, all parts of the craft, as anyone knowing a little about his bio knows. Turned down millions in endorsements from sponsors that insisted on a no-skiing clause. A lot of his hobbies and passions are well off the beaten path.

Andy with diet goes in phases..sushi for a few years, skinless chicken and rice another year. Protein shakes and regular fare another. Anything he thinks can help him catch up to the other three.

Many players are devoted pet lovers, leaning on the dog side, not felines.

June 22nd, 2016 at 6:08 pm

Oh, I left out Andy is a boxing devotee.

June 22nd, 2016 at 6:11 pm

CF1:………”I find diet, work and rec differences very interesting.”
No you don’t, you’re just our resident Nolepedia who’s too lazy and biased to research diet, work and rec of other players and sees this header as another opportunity to do a less than subtle bashing.
‘Anything he thinks will help him catch up with the other three.’
”Simple video games.’
‘Mirka isn’t able to walk very far.’
”Fashion stylist.’
Your dismissive attitude to anyone not named Novak is a result of fiction rather than fact.

June 23rd, 2016 at 5:36 pm

Oh, pray tell, Purcell, enlighten us on all I have missed on things Federer. You twit.
And as I am interested in many players, I look for and remember biographical details on them.
Since you are a proud acolyte of Federer, and given no notice of caring about Andy, the Williamses, Rafa, Ferrer, Vika, Garbine, etc, etc., – lay on some pithy stuff about Fed’s life off court if that is the only thing you know.

June 23rd, 2016 at 9:00 pm

I dont often agree with Purcell, but when Chris Ford 1 talks about any player not named Novak the posts sound all very complimentary to begin with, but there always seems to be some hidden snark or dig in there somewhere, and somehow it doesnt matter who the the thread is about, he steers the conversation around to Novak, painting him in glowing colours ….

June 24th, 2016 at 5:24 am

‘You twit.’ Can’t believe you wrote that Fordy. Unike genuine tennis fans here who give due attention to a range of players, you show scant regard for other players or the opinions of their fans. I’ve written many times about my favourites from many eras and although Roger is my preferred player I have chosen not to suck the life out of every damned thread, with tales of his life and times.

June 24th, 2016 at 7:02 pm

Willow….it’s enough to make you weep is it not?

June 24th, 2016 at 7:04 pm

Purcell,
Typical posts from church of novak. Don’t think they’ll ever get over the jealosy they have towards the GOAT Maestro. Name callng is what they do “special”, comes with the superior “iq”. ;)

June 24th, 2016 at 7:49 pm

Willow, I think CF1 is writing for the those here that share his devotion to stay on the topic of Novak and share his humor, obsessions, anti-pc gig, and appreciate his snarks. CF1 does have quite a fan base here.

But I totally agree with your description of his posts and try not to read him too often – if it’s a short enough post sometimes I can’t help it. But it’s better for me not to. He’s someone who writes an opinion in a way that says there’s no way but my way. He’s an incredibly wise and knowledgeable man — just ask him.

June 24th, 2016 at 8:16 pm

My posts strive to be polite. They show my bias on rooting Nole, Delpo, Cilic and up on Raonic and Kyrgios/Thiem/Zverev. And liking of Rafa and Andy and David Ferrer. What Monfils does as an artiste. But I don’t go after other posters. Until they go ad hominum 1st, as Purcell does. Then I am quite fine dishing it back in that twit’s face, for example.
Others, shall we say, are unable to differentiate between other’s opinions being expressed honestly, and themselves being Offended! Outraged! at some comment like hoping Rafa can minimize his OCD issues as he grows older. Or that Fed is not as authentic as Andy, Rafa, and Nole as a person.

Jalep and Willow, if they are not the same person changing monnikers regularly with some overlap, fall in that group. But I really don’t care if they feeeeeel Shocked! Outraged! Highly Offended!! – unless there is some legit basis to be wrongfully butthurt other than just reacting to sentiments, facts, opinions they do not like pertaining to tennis. Or peripheral matters. Many times, I just think of Willow or Jalep venting as laughable squawking . Credit Jalep with a good effort at clumsy sarcasm in her last post. Not on mark, but she tried hard and I’d giver her a self-esteem trophy for that!

Skeezer is in that awful emotional place where his guy Federer was saved by Djokovic from being eclipsed by Rafa – Nadal got hurt playing Nole twice and lost the chance to win three Slams, and 2011-2012 full prime Rafa coming off his great 2010 – lost 4 straight Slam finals facing Djokovic. Now old Skeezer is getting anxious and cantankerous that it’s about 50-50 odds at present that Novak may be considered the best player in the Time of the Big 4. Djokovic was fine when he was guarding Feds records dispatching Rafa in matches, but now he is threatening to show he is as good or better than the one-time ‘Maestro’ and that is tough for Skeezer to deal with.

June 24th, 2016 at 10:34 pm

I think that respect shall be given where respect is due. I admire Federer for what he has achieved, fighting against two greats of their own, one against he had a terrible match-up because of the evolution of strings technology.

Novak also merits respect, but somehow, because big corps like Nike, Wilson and Adidas made the error to sign other players and lost the Chinese market — and the fact the Chinese first lady recently visited his training facilities in Belgrade show Nole’s popularity in the most populated and richest country in the world — he doesn’t get it.

The fact that Nolefans write about these double standards does not make of them a “cult”. Everything Novak achieves is… just normal, nothing special. For years, four in a row was officially a Grand Slam. But when Novak was on the verge of making the Grand Slam, in 2012, the definition of “Grand Slam”, in the ITF constitution, reverted to “Calendar grand slam”. His 28 wins in a row against consummate professionals are “less” than Laver’s 25 wins, and, by Laver’s own admission, he played club players in the first rounds of slams.

Fedfans don’t believe in “weak eras” when Fed is in question, but “weak eras” tend to reappear when Novak wins slam after slam: he beat “an old man”, the unfortunate Murray (unfortunate, because he played in the era of Federer, Djokovic and Nadal) becomes “a choker” — after fighting for hours for every point and succumbing to a player whose built is more fitted for tennis, probably, and who is better — 1%, but that 1% counts. Rafa, whose mental fortitude, steely will has been broken in his 50 matches against Novak, suddenly is in decline because his body is suffering — although he has shown time and time again that he was able to come back from any injury he had.

So, it’s very strange to see that CF1 is attacked time and time again, for things he tries to explain coherently. It’s OBNOXIOUS that he is attacked by another nolefan, jalep, who defends Giles racists posts, posts filled with hate against her own fav. Let’s just remind that, while Willow is not jalep, jalep used other monikers time and time again, sometimes she can’t deny.

I don’t always agree with CF1, but his views are a whole, and he’s always the same poster.

June 25th, 2016 at 1:06 am

Mat4 i did apologize twice for calling Novak fans a cult, and also for reffering to this forum as Novak-x, and going off on some mad rant the other day, and i said some complimentary things about the guy on his London tube thread, and also when it comes to the GOAT debate, i would give that to Novak, as for me hes had it tougher because with most of his GS wins he beat two or three of the top 10 players, but i stand by everything else ive said regarding the Novak / Murray final etc, and what i say above, i cant keep apologizing for having an opinion on any of that though surely ? ….

June 25th, 2016 at 2:04 am

Jalep right on ….

June 25th, 2016 at 2:08 am

TBH Im considering calling it a day here anyway, nothing to do with tennis or any fans here, but like BBB said although im sympathetic to both sides of the argument, i voted to leave the EU, and now i wish id never said anything, as i didnt want to offend anybody, i think sometimes its best to keep schtum, and keep some opinions to oneself ….

June 25th, 2016 at 2:15 am

You haven’t offended ME in the least Willow. I think you were wrong and will come to regret your decision, but that’s beside the point. You are entitled to vote whatever way you want and as entitled to your opinion as I am.
The End!

June 25th, 2016 at 2:40 am

Abnoxious is calling a poster a “twit”. That is not trying to explan things coherantly, thats being ignorant.

June 25th, 2016 at 2:48 am

@Willow:

You were not mentioned and you don’t need to apologize. I just made clear that you were not jalep, something CF1 seems to believe. And “cult”, in fact, really doesn’t bother me that much — we’re all fans here, and “fan” means something. Perhaps the word “cult” is appropriate for what we all do.

But, it’s also difficult not to remember, begin quote “when I want to be obnoxious, I go to Tennis-X”, end quote, written by somebody presenting herself as a nolefan, but defending Giles, lakie, and perfidiously provoking disputes among fans on this very site.

Ask yourself if that poster is not also obnoxious toward you.

June 25th, 2016 at 3:01 am

“Abnoxious is calling a poster a “twit”.”

No it is not, it is calling a spade a spade, she asked for it with her ignorant and smarta$$ posts having a dig exclusively at Nole fans all the time, typically for cult members whose lider is nobody else but you! What you sow is what you reap.

June 25th, 2016 at 3:11 am

@Skeezer:

How many times were you provoked, insulted on this pages, and how many times did you cross the borders in your answers? Many times. But still, I thought you deserved to be defended, and I knew what made you wrote things that you probably wouldn’t in other circumstances. It happened to me (and Rafans raised his voice against Brando, e.g.), it happened to almost every one of us.

I guess it’s worth for CF1 too. I had to check what a “twit” means, and it’s not a word we should use among ourselves, but let’s cut some slack here.

I am sure that you have noticed how much fake fans started posting on this blog lately, just to spark quarrels and feuds. Rafans became Fedfans, Fedfans are suddenly Nolefan, Nolefans act like Rafans. You are too clever not to see that we have delegates from other places who make fun of us.

June 25th, 2016 at 3:15 am

“when I want to be obnoxious, I go to Tennis-X”

I’ve seen that one on the other forum, I don’t post there but I read it, she posts there, you are telling the truth.

June 25th, 2016 at 3:15 am

… and no Rafans raised…

… I guess it applies for…

June 25th, 2016 at 3:17 am

Finally, this: it’s legitimate to brag when our fav wins. It was very legitimate for Andy’s fans to celebrate his victory in Rome, and it will be also very legitimate for Fedfans to be proud of a potential victory at Wimbledon.

So I hope nobody will be offended if Nolefans brag a bit if Novak wins again.

June 25th, 2016 at 4:30 am

@Wog:

Hi, old boy. Of course I am telling the truth. And it was a thread about the RG final, and when Rafans congratulated her, she conceded not to be too happy about Novak’s victory.

Anyway, I am happy to see you posting again.

June 25th, 2016 at 4:38 am

It’s clear that many of you don’t “get” that being a Rafa fan, a Nole fan, an Andy fan, a Federer fan, a Kei Nishikori fan all at the same time is possible. And yes to me it becomes obnoxious when there’s a need to pull out a history and an experience of loving and appreciating all these favorites and their opponents at one time or another. Appreciation for the competition Rafa Nadal has provided this sport strikes me most when he’s missing! Consider me a Rafa fan!

And say what you like. It won’t change a thing. I love tennis more than one player or another. It only makes sense that a proponent of weak era who uses it to denigrate a legend’s achievements would become insecure about the lack of competition at this time and find ways to deny its existence. But there’s truth also that Novak has had a hand in creating that monster, Federer did it too, Rafa did it as well, subduing the competition by brilliance is fairly common in sport.

Also it follows, reading the emotions here, that too many take all this far too seriously. It’s a sport blog, the stakes here don’t involve truly serious problems.

June 25th, 2016 at 5:28 am

Margot, I’ve been awake most of the night reading about the sides of this debacle and need to go back to sleep but I wanted to check here to see if you had posted. I’m with you all the way.

June 25th, 2016 at 6:04 am

Mat4 –
Please reconsider “twit”. Twit is the word that is very acceptable to use in mixed company on both sides of the Atlantic. Essentially, it is an annoying idiot. A bothersme person.
A usage that may put it in context would be Justin Bieber being dismissively waved off by DiCaprio for trying to horn in for photos with the “Revenent” cast at an Oscar party. ‘Flit away, shoo, shoo..away, insect’..and director Inarritu saying “Sad little twit, yes? Who is he?” as Bieber went away looking for other photo ops.

Whereas if you substitute an “a” for an “i” in that you have a stronger misogynistic dismissive noun, that definitely fits your convention of being best not used among ourselves. Maybe that is the word you were thinking of.

June 25th, 2016 at 8:42 am

Margot – what would you consider the best source for a description of the economic consequences of the Brexit? I’ve discounted most of what I’ve seen because it’s hard to find anything that seems objective/impartial.

June 25th, 2016 at 9:14 am

BBB:
The Bexit politicians have absolutely no economic plan whatsoever and looked pretty low key and sheepish in interview, so who knows? And many voters are now saying they only voted Brexit as a protest vote and never expected to leave. But hey!
Meanwhile the politicians are already back peddling saying they didn’t really mean it about controlling immigration or extra funding for the NHS. Just lies, lies, lies.
As you’ve probably guessed my sources are mainly The Guardian and The Independent but The Financial Times and The Economist would be OK I guess and the up marked US financial press.

June 25th, 2016 at 9:36 am

Thanks M. To be honest, I consider the FT and the Economist (and the upmarket U.S. press) to be not so good at questioning conventional wisdom (which is sometimes spot on, but still) so I’ve taken their positions with a grain of salt. They’re the sorts who prefer stability to instability and believe every trade agreement is good no matter what’s in it. I’m looking for something that methodically spells out why this would be bad for the UK, economically – e.g., will banking be routed through Paris instead of London etc.

What you say about people being surprised doesn’t surprise me. I thought that people would get into the booth and lean remain, precisely because nobody has any idea what the consequences of a Brexit really are.

Cameron is an infamous individual. The irresponsibility is breathtaking. And I say this as someone who took the FT poll and ended up right down the middle on remain/leave.

I will not be totally surprised if some package is put together that leads to another vote, but I’m not sure what the legal framework is in the UK for that.

June 25th, 2016 at 9:53 am

Don’t forget twitter as a source: Boris Johnson = Donald Trump

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CluHwITXIAA2YbV.jpg

June 25th, 2016 at 9:56 am

CF1:

“Twit” is just one word — it means “crétin” in French, which is not something… really nice. I don’t know English well enough to know if it is acceptable to use it.

But the point stands — from time to time, everyone of us has crossed the line, and nobody is innocent enough to throw the first stone. Your posts are usually well articulated, and even when somebody disagrees, arguments and a correct debate are the way.

I know that your arguments displease many posters here, but they should demonstrate that there are fallacies in your thinking, not attack ad hominem.

June 25th, 2016 at 9:57 am

The Brexit won’t have any negative consequences on the UK. Many countries have treaties of free circulation of goods and people with the EU, I don’t see why it would be denied for the UK.

On the other side, you should know that most banks “too big to fall” are broke — from the Deutche Bank to JP Morgan and Credit Agricole or BNP. An economical Armageddon is already at our doors. And it has nothing to do with the UK and the EU.

The French people voted against the European constitution in 2005, but our will has been betrayed by Sarkozy. I hope that we will soon have the same referendum, and that we will leave too the prison that the EU has become.

You have Stiglitz’, Sapir’s, Todd’s books on different aspect of the EU. It’s easy to find literature about the financial crash of 2008 and the financial bubble of today. Just do some research.

June 25th, 2016 at 10:08 am

“What you say about people being surprised doesn’t surprise me. I thought that people would get into the booth and lean remain, precisely because nobody has any idea what the consequences of a Brexit really are.”

It’s a desperation vote, imo. A “hail Mary” vote — we can’t trust the establishment so let’s go with the anti-establishment candidate or referendum in Brexit’s case, and see what happens. It can’t get any worse. (But yes, it can)

A link from ed earlier this morning:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/24/leavers-take-control

June 25th, 2016 at 10:11 am

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215
Margot. Have you seen this? Would this be valid?

June 25th, 2016 at 10:13 am

BBB: From Bella Caledonia (prior to voting results)
2016 European Referendum
Whatever happens, Britain has already left the building by
Gerry Hassan

Scottish Review, June 22nd 2016
The UK has already left Europe. It never really joined in any real sense.

National debates like this reveals much about the psyche of a country, and how it sees its collective hopes and fears. For one, it illuminates a lot about the ghosts of the past that haunt a country. In the Scottish indyref, for example, a great deal of this focused on the perceived legacy of Thatcherism and deindustrialisation.

In this European debate, the ghosts seemingly ever-present are those of the spectre of German dominance of the continent and the dark empire of the Nazis, Hitler and World War Two. Further proof, if it were needed, that this has a vice-like grip on the British imagination, was given by the recent controversy over anti-Semitism sparked by Ken Livingstone, which revolved around Hitler’s relationship with Zionism, lacking any sensitivity or interest in historical accuracy.

The 1975 referendum campaign, 41 years ago and 30 years after World War Two, had little to no references to the Nazis and Hitler. People were too close then to the horrendous, murderous events of the war, and careful to not appear tactless or make offensive comparisons.

Then, a whole swathe of British politicians had fought in the war. To give a couple of examples: Ted Heath, leader of the Conservatives until February 1975 was involved in the D-Day landings; Denis Healey, Labour Chancellor, landed at Anzio, south of Rome in 1944; Fitzroy Maclean, a Scottish Conservative MP in the 1960s and 1970s, had been British ambassador to Tito’s partisans in Yugoslavia.

The rise of fantasy Nazis in our culture has occurred as we have got further removed from World War Two. As the generations who fought in and experienced the war have passed away, our culture has got less deferential; in places more democratic, but in other ways coarser, and literary and historical references thinner. Compare the great parliamentary debates of Britain declaring war on Germany in September 1939 or the Norway debate in May 1940, the last of which brought down Chamberlain as Prime Minister, and laid the ground for Churchill entering Downing Street.

Then turn to recent big House of Commons debates such as the Syria debates of 2013 and 2015. Previous occasions are rich with historic and cultural references such as in May 1940 Tory MP Leo Amery calling out to Chamberlain ‘In the name of God, go’ – a direct quotation from Oliver Cromwell’s words to the Long Parliament. No such evocations are evident in the Syrian debates, but the shadows of ‘appeasement’, Munich and fascism are ever present.

So many things have been missing. One is a proper understanding of the UK economy. Both Remain and Leave have parroted the mantra that ‘the UK is the fifth richest country in the world’ – without any depth or economic literacy. What unites both camps is a belief in ‘the Great British economic miracle’ from the 1980s onwards. This argues that whereas in the 1960s and 1970s the UK was ‘the sick man of Europe’, Thatcher halted economic decline and ‘put the Great back into Britain’.

Therefore, the underlying weaknesses of the UK economy go unmentioned. The huge debt overhang as a percentage of GDP, the Balance of Payments structural deficit, the ‘crowding out’ which the City of London’s dominance does to any real economic activities, the lack of corporate investment, the long term productivity gap, and the model of cannibalistic capitalism which produces such vandals as Philip Green (BHS) and Mike Ashley (Sports Direct). The British economic bubble of the last thirty years is taken as a real, sustainable transformation, despite all evidence to the contrary. The difficult truth is that irrespective of Remain or Leave winning, future economic storms are already gathering for the UK.

Also absent, posted missing, has been the British Labour Party. Jeremy Corbyn has not gone out and campaigned for the EU, leaving it to Alan Johnson. He has done one TV question and answer with a live TV audience. He has faced much criticism for this non-presence, even taking a holiday in the middle of the campaign.

However, Labour’s ambivalence underlines its wider malaise as the party’s traditional working class supporters have shown little enthusiasm for an overt pro-EU message. Absolutely critical is the point that in a binary referendum, one legitimate approach is to sit it out. This debate has not been of Labour’s making or calling, and isn’t on Labour’s terrain of a social Europe, so it has for internal party dynamics, and to maximise the pressure on Cameron and Osborne, left them to front most of the Remain case.

Similarly, but much less pronounced, the SNP have in many respects, gone through the motions. Nicola Sturgeon has made several pro-EU interventions, but the party know this isn’t their battle, and that Remain or Leave – indyref2 is a fair while away. Sturgeon has had to undertake a careful balancing act, of keeping the increased party membership happy with the future prospect of independence, while playing a longer game, of not alienating those floating voters who have to be won over in any indyref2. It has seen a bit too much of trying to have your cake and eat it, and without any clear, strategic leadership.

There is still a chance that Britain will vote to Leave. But then the UK has always been at best semi-detached. A close vote to Leave would see a Scottish sizeable Remain vote. Then Sturgeon is faced with a difficult situation. Does a pronounced Scottish Remain on a 55-60% turnout over-turn an explicit pro-union mandate on an 85% turnout? Her most passionate supporters will say yes; she will remain canny and try to play a longer game. This is the dilemma that the SNP and Sturgeon have done all they can to avoid. Why would approximately one million or so Scots voting to remain in the EU, trump two million Scots explicitly voting to endorse the UK union?

This week is more than likely to not end the conundrums and choices flagged up in the referendum. A narrow result either way doesn’t conclude the debate or decide anything. It is even possible that a narrow Remain vote represents the worst of all worlds: with Cameron’s qualified Euro position hardly endorsed, and England’s Leave constituency either narrowly winning or just losing. This could leave it, in the former case, being over-turned by a mixture of the Celtic nations, and in particular, Scottish and Northern Irish Remain votes. Similarly, a slender Leave vote, particularly on a low turnout, may not be seen by the UK Government as an absolute mandate for an unconditional Brexit.

Everyone has denied this during the campaign, but say, a 54:46 vote for Leave, on a turnout of, about or under 60%, may not be the end of the matter. Instead, it might lead to the negotiation of a different, more formally distanced, British relationship with the EU, while in name remaining a member. The EU post-vote in such circumstances will do all it can to not lose the UK, with the blow to reputation and status it entails, along with years of instability. All of this would require in all probability, a second referendum, which would not be plain sailing. And that’s without even touching on the Scottish ramifications.

This brings us to the state of what passes for British democracy. For most of the existence of the UK, British elites have believed their political system is close to perfect – ‘the mother of all Parliaments’, the right mix of checks and balances, combining the will of the elected, with the restraint of the unelected Lords.

That self-assuredness was already beginning to wither by 1975, hence the recourse to the first ever nationwide referendum. Things haven’t gotten any better today, and large parts of British public life, institutions and professions, are viewed with scepticism, bordering on (in places) suspicion and contempt.

This is where the conduct of the European referendum has become part of the problem. The denigration of experts and facts is widely commented upon. Less is the partisan use of bodies such as the IMF, OECD, Bank of England and others to sell back to us what is, in effect, UK government propaganda. Whereas in 1975, Prime Minister Harold Wilson stayed mostly above the fray, today Cameron and the main organs of the UK Government have churned out endless pseudo-campaign facts and assertions, to try to boss a wary electorate to vote for Remain. In so doing, it has cost them and the respective institutions dear.

This has been an awful campaign. The rise of populism, the emergence of post-truth politics, the vulgar nature of much of Nigel Farage and UKIP’s politics, are self-evident, but equally appalling is the misuse of government and public agencies by Cameron and Osborne, something seen in the indyref, but now reaching hyperdrive out of desperation.

The referendum has come about because of the decline in trust in politicians and the political classes, and sadly, their behaviour in this campaign has merely added to the sense of corrosion and disbelief people have in party politics. Where that leaves us is somewhere not very pleasant and rather ugly, and to which, the immediate solutions aren’t very clear. This is the world of the neverendum. In the country of Neverland

June 25th, 2016 at 10:23 am

BBB : Apologies…meant only to paste the intro.

June 25th, 2016 at 10:25 am

Mat4, thanks, but I am very knowledgeable about the financial crisis (professionally), just wrote a white paper on today’s bubble, and have met Stiglitz. I don’t find him objective either, though I like some of his work.

Whether there’s a bubble or not, France has been trying to siphon financial services from London for a long time, and that has driven some of the policies coming out of Internal Markets. As we know that we won’t allow banks to go under, however much we think we’ve addressed TBTF, the financial services industry isn’t going away. To me, the only dire consequence I can foresee is the loss of the City as Londoners currently know it, but I can’t tell if that’s really going to happen or not. I had shared your view that ongoing free circulation would be the likeliest outcome, but a colleague yesterday said that Brussels may try to take a hard line in order to forestall further defections, a legitimate counterpoint. And thus it could be that the EU has free circulation with Turkey but not the UK. We don’t know, do we?

In any event, I’m looking for neutral analysis on the consequences of Brexit.

June 25th, 2016 at 10:27 am

@jalep:

You can’t be a true fan of “many players”, but it’s true one can respect many players, I agree on this. And you don’t have to be a fan of a certain player to have friends. In fact, nobody cares for this if you are articulated and friendly.

But you can’t defend haters (by your admission — I can quote these posts too) against somebody who thought you were his friend, and who vouched for you.

It was the question, remember? Why defend Giles and lakie who were insulting me, while I didn’t insult them in my answers? You accused me of double standards, but what about you?

And then… I searched more than an hour through old posts to prove that you were not lakie… but the more I read, the more it was obvious that you were the main suspect. Just a few posters knew that I don’t like to be called Mat4, or Mat, that mat4 isn’t a name, but lakie knew it. An old friend. And there was a certain error, made only by you and lakie, very peculiar. Some words, too. lakie answering for you.

So, I gave you the chance to clear yourself. A reasonable, short answer was enough, and the question was formulated as a joke — but you missed it, on the contrary, you made all your game obvious.

You’re obnoxious. Just like you said it yourself.

June 25th, 2016 at 10:36 am

Thanks all for the links/articles. It’s only confirming my suspicion that none of this was thought out. Outrageous.

I do think it’s a mistake to write things off as “populist” and have that be the end of it. Populism comes from somewhere, and if we don’t address the root cause (and the EU is not the root cause), we are in for ugly days.

June 25th, 2016 at 10:43 am

BBB:

Of course that Stiglitz is partly biased. But who isn’t. But you are well aware that what I wrote is the real danger for our economy.

On a shorter term, Bruxelles is without power now — there are too many countries who will oppose any retaliation against the UK. The Brexit was a bad blow, and the EU will have to reform.

London won’t lose the City. It’s simply impossible.

June 25th, 2016 at 10:46 am

Mat3, you are showing real signs of paranoia. I’m not lakie – lakie I think was Nadalista and no one can imitate her. She’s a formidable poster – very bright in ways I’m not. And I miss her. Yes a Rafa fan but I liked her wit very much. And wish she would come back.

I’m obnoxious to you, and there’s nothing I can or am willing to do about it. It’s up to you to build that bridge and get over it.

Posting on Tenngrand during the FO final was great. Had I been here, it would have felt obnoxious to be because of YOU!

You are a quintessential “know-it-all” and I find that obnoxious.

June 25th, 2016 at 10:50 am

mat4, how do you know London won’t lose the City as we know it? That’s not knowable. This is what I’m resisting on both sides – confidence in future outcomes that aren’t predicated on any analysis. It’s the analysis that I’m looking for.

June 25th, 2016 at 10:59 am

PS – I could care less if I fit YOUR definition of a “true fan” LOL

As if you are the authority on it.

June 25th, 2016 at 11:00 am

Sorry, jalep. I just quoted you. No harm intended. You said it all yourself.

June 25th, 2016 at 11:12 am

mat4,
Your starting to draw some battles lines in the sand, why?
“You can’t be a true fan of “Many players”.wtf? jane is a fand of Murray and Milos, what does that make her?
—
Starting to see more and more unnesssary animosoity from Novak fans here, he has won the last 4 Slams, #1 in the world, that in itself speaks respectand the highest recognttion. If you all don’t think he’s getting it, your not seeing straight. These continual posts about how sh!ttty everyone else is if hour not Novak or from the church just sounds insecure and buffhurt.

June 25th, 2016 at 11:19 am

Last time he had twins. Oh not those twins.

June 25th, 2016 at 11:33 am

skeezer, the problem is, I flit between several different blogs looking for people interested in talking about current matches, the draws, tennis other than the top ATP. I get very bored with that.

It was a really good match between Pliskova and Cibulkova this morning and nobody anywhere noticed.

Blame it on Brexshit

June 25th, 2016 at 11:35 am

BBB, not sure if you’ll find this useful or objective but it does seem to present different scenarios, even just going by the first sentence: “The UK vote yesterday to leave the European Union will have widespread consequences for financial markets, creating both opportunities and problems”

http://wallstreetpit.com/111292-on-the-financial-market-consequences-of-brexit/

June 25th, 2016 at 11:52 am

Mat4 ive never found Jalep to be obnoxious toward myself or anyone, i have spoke to her a number of times about the WTA, and on, the bracket challenges, and also on Tenngrand which is actually a very diverse site, and not all Rafa talk at all, some here say that and its an absolute falacy, she has alot of passion for the game, for both the WTA and the ATP, but is not obsessed by just one player, she loves the French players, and likes to see up and coming players breaking through, shes a very clever and knowledgeable lady when it comes to tennis, i know she can speak for herself, but Grendel once said (miss Grendel BTW) he he enjoyed reading her posts, that goes for me too ….

June 25th, 2016 at 11:55 am

Jalep i missed the match as i was working, wouldve loved to have seen it who won ? ….

June 25th, 2016 at 11:57 am

Willow, thanks. But wouldn’t it be fun if you were here having coffee or tea with me and we were mulling over the bracket in real life?

That’s why I post – for fun. And thank goodness you are here and interested. Real life friends (boyfriend included) can only take so much of this before it becomes…wait for it…OBNOXIOUS 😲 lol…

Cibulkova won. She outwitted and intimidated the 6’2 or taller, Karolina Pliskova. And I’d just taken Karolina to the SF. Now have to rethink the whole section. Or, maybe it’s just a weakness she has vs Cibby?? What do you think?

June 25th, 2016 at 12:06 pm

Jalep you would be welcome around my flat anytime, sipping coffee with sandwiches and biscuits, looking at the sea view, while my hubby watches football lol, anyhow sports a funny thing, sometimes you have to expect the unexpected ….

June 25th, 2016 at 12:34 pm

BBB, i am not sure where you are and thus which press you’re getting but here’s another very rudimentary recap:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/25/world/europe/overwhelmed-by-brexit-here-are-the-basics.html

June 25th, 2016 at 12:48 pm

Roger Federer addresses fitness, rumours of withdrawal at Wimbledon press conference

?????????????????????????????????????????
?????????????????????????????????????????????

June 25th, 2016 at 1:16 pm

Above on “Sportskeeda”

June 25th, 2016 at 1:17 pm

did you read the article j-kath? it ends as such: “but now appears to be fit to play.”

June 25th, 2016 at 1:31 pm

I Doubt it very much that he would miss another GS in a year, bad enough losing Rafa but Fed ?, and both were missing for RG, to miss two of the elite players, two GS in a row, would be a great loss ….

June 25th, 2016 at 1:55 pm

Anyway they have just shown Federer on Sky news already practicing, laughing and smiling, so unlikely i would say ….

June 25th, 2016 at 1:56 pm

Yes Jane, but they still left ????? for me. Or maybe I’m naive to think no “no flame without a fire” via a journalist report.

Margo: Wales 1 – NI 0. No harm in a bit of luck. We all need it.

June 25th, 2016 at 2:04 pm

@Skeezer:

No, I am not drawing lines in the sand. And I didn’t start anything. The sentence you quote ends with: “but it’s true one can respect many players”.

All my posts (but one) in this thread appeal against drawing lines, against conflict, and for tolerance among fans. In a few years, we will have perhaps other favs, and we will perhaps still be here. Why wage wars?

There is no animosity toward you from my side. Quite the opposite. That’s why I want all of this to stop, among other things. I feel bad when Willow apologize when there’s no need to do so — she can write anything she wants about Novak, I don’t care. Friendship, good communication with other posters is to me, more important than tennis players. But, on the other side, I will defend my fav, like you defend yours.

That’s the reason why I didn’t insult posters who insulted me — like Giles, Brando, etc. I defended you when you crossed the lines of good taste. It happens to everybody. I just ask from you some flexibility too.

I beg you not to interfere in the quarrel I have with jalep. It has nothing to do with fandom, but with trust.

June 25th, 2016 at 2:53 pm

LOL, jalep/lakie and trust…

Like Federer and #1, never again in the same sentence!

But, yeah, let’s talk about tennis and not top players, there was a great match today at Milan Challenger where Djere beat Gimeno-Traver 7-5 in the third… I’ll let our resident true tennis lover, and overall self-proclaimed great person jalep/lakie elaborate on the match, and perhaps send a link to it to our apologetic/name changer friend, Willow ;-)

June 25th, 2016 at 3:05 pm

Thank you Jane! Very helpful. The one thing the Wall Street article doesn’t address is the fact that, as Members of the WTO, the EU must allow UK financial firms access. So I am not sure the argument that the UK will automatically be required to adopt EU regulations in order to compete there holds. But the attempt at balance is most welcome.

June 25th, 2016 at 3:26 pm

” I think was Nadalista and no one can imitate her. She’s a formidable poster – very bright in ways I’m not. And I miss her.”

BS, you are not missing her, she posts in Tenngrad where you post too, and she is very “respectfull” and “nice” in her posts towards Nole, that’s why you respect and like her? No real Nole fsn fan would have that kind of words for that bit€h, but fake one like you ..yes!

June 25th, 2016 at 5:15 pm

Giles @ 10.13
Already signed it and sent it to all my equally despairing, sorrowful friends.

June 25th, 2016 at 5:26 pm

As for Brexit, short term pain for the long term gain, more damage, irreparable one, has been done to EU than to UK by the result of referendum. EU has to reform or disappear, UK will always be part of Europe, significant one, now they will be free to do the trade with who ever they want without being dictated from EU who to do the trade with and how. Europe is not the biggest nor the best market to do the trade with…oh and yes, Russia is more accessible now, who says that Brits are not pragmatic, it is old saying that “Brits (English) are planning 100 years ahead” minimum:)

June 25th, 2016 at 5:48 pm

Travis Bickle its called having passion and enthuiasm for the sport in general, and not just been obsessed by one players or the top players, Van Persie is actually the same following lots of players, even though Nole is their favorite player, they are on the look out for new talent, and the new up and coming players are the future of our sport , and some will maybe be the stars of tomorrow, its where all the top players started off before making it big, Nole, Roger, Rafa etc school and practice with some of these young players, probably using their experience to help these players hone their skills ….

June 26th, 2016 at 2:26 am

WB,

please note, that the UK was more against Russia, then Germany. Mercedes is negociating at ghe moment with Moscow.

June 26th, 2016 at 2:32 am

For WB,

UK was the most vocal from EU countries for sanctions against Russia after the Crimeea thing.

June 26th, 2016 at 2:41 am

@Margot,

I usually agree with your reasoning on Tennis X, but this time you have me confused with your eagerness to sign this petition…

Isn’t this petition an attempt to repeat the vote until you get the result you want?
And is that your idea of democracy?

I’ve got no horse in that race, but am simply curious regarding this petition to repeat the referendum… I would think once voting is over and ballots counted, one should simply accept the result of democratic process.

June 26th, 2016 at 2:55 am

WB,

Note what Sergei Sobyanin said:

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/683100/Russia-reacts-Brexit-Putin-victory-Moscow

I hope that with Brexit the “Cold War” will end, honestly…

June 26th, 2016 at 2:59 am

VP,

Thanks for the link, great reading and yes, you are right, I know who was pressing hard for the sanctions against Russia, but they came back to bait Europe, and of course now they are looking for the way out of sanctions, but have to save some pride..

June 26th, 2016 at 4:00 am

TB,

I had excatly the same thought, good point.

June 26th, 2016 at 4:03 am

@Travis
1) registers my dismay
2}puts MPs, the majority of whom favour Remain, on the spot
3)Brexit lot lied and lied to the voters and, as I write these lies are being exposed.
4)the level of debate on both sides was awful, needs to be re-visited in a calmish manner in the HOC
PS no need for the referendum anyway, why we have MPs. Pity we didn’t have one prior to Iraq war TBH. A huge miss-calculation by that idiot Cameron.

June 26th, 2016 at 4:14 am

@VP
Not “UK” bloody right wing government. A difference.

June 26th, 2016 at 4:16 am

@Margot,

I thought referendum is highest form of democracy and not (possibly) corrupted elected politicians (MPs)? You just repeated the words of new Serbian ruler from few days ago (after Brexit) who said after he was pressed to orginize referendum about whether Serbia should to join EU “There is no referendum while I am in power, you voted me in office and I am for EU”, the problem is people voted his party for various reason and not just EU reason, but he sees it differently.

June 26th, 2016 at 4:34 am

“Not “UK” bloody right wing government. A difference.”

Was it right wing govermant that destroyed Irak and pressed hard for bombing of Serbia? I wouldn’t say so, wor criminals Toni Blair and Robin Cook were members of left wing party if I remember right?

June 26th, 2016 at 4:42 am

Margot,

I apologize. Of course, it was the governement. I did not use the proper words.

June 26th, 2016 at 4:43 am

Margot,

Some good news for you and me ;)

http://news.sky.com/story/1717406/brexit-wont-hurt-game-of-thrones-production

June 26th, 2016 at 4:49 am

^^ Conservative John Major never caved in to request to bomb Serbia, neither American Republicans, they knew the truth, but left wing Democrats and Labors, as soon as they came to power, did a deal and bombed independent country that did not attack any other country, just fought terrorist on its own soil..that were financed by who, those left wing governments. Facts, sorry.

June 26th, 2016 at 4:49 am

@VP
Could do with some good news :) Yay!
@Wog Boy
That is not correct. Robin Cook, an honourable man, resigned over the Iraq War.
Tony Blair was an opportunist. After John Smith died, he took his chances. He was a Tory at Uni and he had a Tory heart. He has virtually destroyed the Labour party with his decision to back Bush. He lied about WMD. He was determined to go to war, whatever. Please don’t insult the Labour Party by calling this war criminal “Labour.”

June 26th, 2016 at 5:58 am

And Wog Boy, of course it was the Tory vote that secured the bombing of Iraq. There were many Labour dissenters and millions, like me, marched against it.

June 26th, 2016 at 6:02 am

@Margot 5:58 am..very true about iraq..

June 26th, 2016 at 6:32 am

Of course he lied about WMD,because there is no WMD..it’s only projected by Bush and his cronies just to invade iraq..for what?for BLACK GOLD!That’s the main reason..

June 26th, 2016 at 6:41 am

@Travis:

I fully deserve the “LOL”.

June 26th, 2016 at 8:02 am

Wog Boy and paranoid mat4

Nadilista is not posting anywhere right now. Maybe it’s because Rafa isn’t playing and she has better things to do. If she’s reading she’s no doubt having a laugh about your obsessions and paranoia at a time like this when foremost in you mind and emotions could be celebrating Nole and talking about Wimbledon. Why you concern yourselves in such pettiness? I don’t like you. So what? Get over it. Move on. :)

June 26th, 2016 at 8:30 am

I took part in the anti-war march in Hyde Park …my anger can still rise. If I remember correctly there were close to 2 million people…and still it was ignored.

Margo: As well as Robin Cook resigning there was Clare Short (and somebody else…???).

June 26th, 2016 at 8:38 am

‘Brexit lot lied and lied to the voters and, as I write these lies are being exposed.’

They all lied.
Imagine not being capable of even registering THAT.
Cameron was out of control at one point (there will be a WW3!!!!!).
You’re not getting another Ref Margot; your side lost.
Despite the absolutely disgusting exploitation of a poor woman’s death to shore up their vote they still lost and in England by nearly 7 points.
It is time to cut the apron strings and make the most of it!

June 26th, 2016 at 8:56 am

Margot,
Robin Cook, together with Tony Blair and Albright was major force in requesting bombing of Serbia, maybe he is honorable for you, but he is definitely not honorable for thousands inocent victims and destroyed infrastructure in maniacal bombardment of one sovereign country. At least Albright got what she deserved month ago when she was called right name, war criminal, by student and teachers at California college:

https://www.rt.com/usa/343061-albright-war-criminal-protest/

June 26th, 2016 at 9:13 am

@jalep

Didn’t write a word about Nadalista. I even didn’t insult you in any manner.

And if you had the decency to answer why you were defending haters (that’s the way you defined them yourself), the decency to describe on TG how it all really happened (I read your posts there — not only those about me, but about nolefans and T-x in general), if you had the honesty to say frankly that you still are a fedfan, nothing would have happened.

Can you deny that you wrote: “If I did wish to be obnoxious, I’d be over on Tennis-X.” Do I need to post a link?

Anyway, it’s over now. I will act as if you don’t exist, and I ask you to do the same.

June 26th, 2016 at 2:56 pm

Mat4
Your wish is to ostracize me and you are trying hard to demonize me. Recruiting help from Bickle and whoever will help you in your goal. But I don’t think it’s going to work with everyone here. There will still be some that will talk to me even though they might be under pressure to ignore me because of Your Majesty’s wishes. Anyone who likes you pressure people to choose a side. Geezus, that really is a petty and creepy thing for a grown man to do. Pleading to Willow to have a bad opinion of me. There’s desperation in your posts. Dictating who gets to talk to whom here – I definitely know that! So it’s control, control…and more control issues with you.

Nothing short of public humiliation of me will suffice for you. And understanding is possible, at least while you are in this paranoid and unreasonable condition. I doubt very much you can ignore me. But it would be GREAT if you could!! Come out of your lurking and post on Tenngrand if you can keep it to tennis. I have no problem ignoring you anywhere!! And Ricky is quite nice. But he doesn’t like soap opera dramas among the posters going on like this one. He’s very clear on that. It’s strictly tennis except on the non-tennis forum.

June 27th, 2016 at 1:07 am

should say: And coming to an understanding is NOT possible ….

June 27th, 2016 at 1:11 am

Lakie I think was Nadalista. She’s unique. I could never fill her shoes.

June 27th, 2016 at 1:20 am

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/jun/26/city-of-london-expecting-further-post-brexit-losses-when-trade-reopens

Happy now CDP?

June 27th, 2016 at 1:39 am

Not in my name, Wog Boy.

June 27th, 2016 at 1:44 am

Fnal PS
Only trolls have exceptionally long, elephantine memories about what tennis fans said, or didn’t say, here or elsewhere. Most sane, normal people talking tennis to each other:
let….things….go.

June 27th, 2016 at 1:59 am

I just got email from my English friend about Brexit, I reckon it is pretty accurate, have a look:

_____
FW: Here is an explanation for Brexit – MUST watch

https://youtu.be/lScVfwe-Rp0
_____

June 27th, 2016 at 2:27 am

Wog Boy-That is brilliant.One of my favorite series ( with Falty Towers and Fools and Horses )

June 27th, 2016 at 8:14 am

Please keep the politics out of tennis.

It’s wimbledon.

June 27th, 2016 at 8:48 am

‘Happy now CDP?’

Delighted dear!
Spare me your concern about the economy Margot.
No one who votes for Corbyn/Socialism can possibly give a monkey’s about the economy!
hehehe
You should know that markets have been lower already the last 12 months.
The pound will help for exports too.
Swings and roundabouts.
We’re in a holding pattern for the moment.
Markets don’t like uncertainty, therefore the sooner we are out the better in my view for investment flows.
(For the EU/World economy as well).
Onwards and upwards!
Anyhoo, for once I agree with the risible housewife Madmax
It’s Wimbledon now and Wardy is not embarrassing himself.

June 27th, 2016 at 9:41 am