Propsecting: What is the Value of Gold, Silver and Bronze for Tennis Pros?
by Dan Martin | August 11th, 2008, 6:19 pm
  • 75 Comments

After an amazing opening ceremony, I came around a bit on tennis in the Olympics. If this is the biggest sporting event, why not have the best sport represented? The Olympics also have me thinking about where Olympic Medals stand in terms of career accomplishments for top players. Questions such as these popped up:


Where does Agassi’s Gold figure in when evaluating his career?
Would your rather be Mardy Fish or Mal Washington?
How much are Goran’s 2 Bronze Medals worth to him?
Do doubles medals matter more to guys who primarily play singles than Grand Slam doubles titles?

Gold: A gold medal is likely as valuable to a top tennis player as any title not among the 4 Grand Slams. The Masters Cup or a Masters Series event with deep history such as Rome might be deemed more valuable than gold by various top players. Depending on the nation and mindset of a player Gold may or may not be as valuable as winning the Davis Cup. I got the sense that Carlos Moya was extremely happy to win TMS Rome and the Davis Cup in 2004. Those are accomplishments a player can share with family, friends and fans. So too is an Olympic Gold medal.

Silver: I do not think a Silver Medal quite measures up to a Grand Slam runner-up finish, but it has to be the 5th best runner-up finish in tennis. If Mardy fish is talking over his career with a sports reporter or casual sports fan, the 2004 Silver Medal is immediately recognized as a major achievement. His runner-up finishes at Cincinnati 2003 and Indian Wells 2008 would not make nearly the same impression. Having said that, I think a Grand Slam runner-up is still a better addition to the trophy case than a medal from a personal standpoint. From the standpoint of representing your country and contributing to a medal count, the Olympics are peerless when it comes to valuable 2nd and 3rd place finishes.

Bronze: This medal really out paces most if not all semifinal paces in the tennis world. A Grand Slam semifinal still makes sense to a lot of people as being a big time achievement, but a Bronze Medal is a tangible demonstration of national and personal achievement. Tim Henman was celebrated for his various Grand Slam semifinal appearances, but I am sure a medal in singles or doubles for Andy Murray would help a the mental outlook of many British fans by offering a tangible award to Murray or the Murrays.

Doubles: If a player has focused most or all of his/her career energies on doubles then I believe the above distinctions still hold. If a player is primarily a singles competitor, I would bet that an Olympic medal is held in higher regard than most if not all comparable finishes in Grand Slam doubles events. Patrick Rafter’s Australian Open doubles title likely meant a great deal to him since he is from a country that understands and values doubles and because he won on home soil. If Rafa or Roger bring home Gold, Silver or Bronze in doubles, I am not sure they would trade that medal for a first place finish at any of the 4 Grand Slam doubles events. Doubles Olympic medals are worth just as much as singles medals to a nation’s medal count. They are just as valuable as singles medals to a casual sports fan who may not follow tennis closely. In short, the reason we see top stars playing Olympic doubles when they tend not to play Grand Slam doubles is a product of both the way the Olympic field is selected and of the way players view the value of these medals.


Also Check Out:
Federer Grabs Olympic Gold in Doubles; Djokovic Beats Blake for Singles Bronze
Bravo/NBC Olympics Tennis TV Schedule
Tennis-X Wrap: Beijing Olympics, New Haven
Juan Martin Del Potro Will Return To Argentina To Celebrate Bronze Before Cincinnati
Roger Federer Wins Epic Olympic Marathon, Will Play For Gold On Sunday; Withdraws From Toronto

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75 Comments for Propsecting: What is the Value of Gold, Silver and Bronze for Tennis Pros?

zola Says:

Dan,
very interesting article.

I think olympics is a broad concept. The whole world is concentrted on different athletes who compete for their country. so it goes beyond the GS or MS. Also it is not always guaranteed to have the best field like a GS or MS. It is a personal experience more than anything and winning a medal for their country might mean more than a MS and sometimes a GS. because it is more patriotic and it happens every 4 years.

So, comparing GS and MS to the medals in the Olympics might be comparing apples and oranges. I think they each have their own special flavor.


Dan Martin Says:

Zola you are no doubt correct that they are different animals.


jane Says:

I like the prospecting metaphor; after all, they are in Bejiing mining, whether it be for gold, silver or bronze.

I think the Olympics might mean different things to different players as well: some might like a medal for a sense of personal glory or accomplishment (i.e., if s/he wants that coveted “golden slam”) and it would mean something in that regard. But more patriotic players might value a win because of what it will mean to their country. In other words, a fairly patriotic player might be in it for less personal reasons. Depends on the athlete, I suppose.


Shital Green Says:

Dan,
Fed said something nice in the post-match interview yesterday, “It is different here because it is only every four years, so you feel the pressure. It would mean as much to win the gold medal as a Grand Slam, and I couldn’t ask any more than to have started like this.”


Dan Martin Says:

I agree and I think perhaps Sampras and Courier’s poor experience in 1992 and the weak men’s draw in 1996 may have colored my perception that a Gold just does not mean as much to these guys as say a U.S. Open title. However, I think the stage of one’s career could very well make the Olympics a very important event. I would not be shocked to see Roger and Stanislas or Rafa and Robredo make a serious attempt at a doubles medal as well.


Von Says:

“It would mean as much to win the gold medal as a Grand Slam, and I couldn’t ask any more than to have started like this.”

Fed is holding true to his previous remarks after losing at Toronto and Cincy, that for him, at this time, the Olympics Gold and the US Open mean more to him and are his main focus for this year.


TD (Tam) Says:

quote-”Where does Agassi’s Gold figure in when evaluating his career?”
I think winning the gold means more to your career if you already have the four slams because then you become one of the very few elite to have won “the golden slam”

quote-”Would your rather be Mardy Fish or Mal Washington?”
Fish

quote-”Do doubles medals matter more to guys who primarily play singles than Grand Slam doubles titles”
I dont think so but I dont play either singles or doubles so I wouldn’t know!


Dan Martin Says:

Andy Murray may have been saving gas for NY. I can’t explain the first round loss otherwise. Ferrer lost to a giant killer.


Dan Martin Says:

I’d rather be Mal (assuming Fish never reaches a slam final). To play on the final Sunday of Wimbledon is a dream for most tennis players. Even if you lose, wow the final Sunday at Wimbledon. I did play junior tennis (poorly I might add never getting beyond a marginal ranking at the state level so no regional or national ranking for me). When I was younger, the Slams and the #1 ranking struck me as the ultimate prizes for tennis. Therefore a slam runner-up trophy would be pretty sweet once the immediate sting of losing subsided. From a patriotic standpoint, it is not like Marcos Baghdatis did not do something cool for Cyprus in his runner-up down under in 2006. Mal Washington did something no African American male had done since Arthur Ashe – reach a Wimbledon final. Hats off to Fish for getting a Silver in 2004, but does anyone give Tim Mayotte the same credit for a silver in 1988 that Boris Becker got for losing the 1988 Wimbledon final or Lendl for losing the U.S. Open final? I don’t think so.


JCF Says:

Hey t-x, did someone pressure you into deleting your blog ‘Roddick: Can He Compete for Top 3 Anymore?’ ?


Von Says:

JCF:

“Hey t-x, did someone pressure you into deleting your blog ‘Roddick: Can He Compete for Top 3 Anymore?’ ?”

I see you have the same problem. I thought something was wrong with my computer or they blocked my posts. I posted a comment in response to TD’s at around 1:30 a.m. and then the thread disappeared. There were 7 posts on the thread.


  Bowling,Education,Games,Personal,Sports,Tennis,Uncategorized | Propsecting: What is the Value of Gold, Silver and Bronze for … — Recycle Email Says:

[...] Propsecting: What is the Value of Gold, Silver and Bronze for … Tennis-X.com – Whitehall,MI,USA by Dan Martin After an amazing opening ceremony, I came around a bit on tennis in the Olympics. If this is the biggest sporting event, why not have the best … See all stories on this topic [...]


jane Says:

I’m curious where the Roddick article went too; when I googled the title it took me here, but then I got an “Error: not found” message. Weird.


jane Says:

The LA Times has an article “F


jane Says:

Opps (hit submit by accident) – that article is called “For Tennis Players, Olympics Lack Luster” – it speaks to Dan’s questions in the article for those who are interested.


Shital Green Says:

Reason for removal: Junior had to listen to Sean the Boss Man, who does not like anything that gets Von high.

That’s that.
Poor Davydenko crashed. PH Mathieu did him real bad. Wawrinka and Tipsy decided to go home.
Simon, Berdych, Youzhny, Nalby, Monfils all advanced to the next round. Gonzu is up a set against Cilic right now. Time to watch.

As the top 3 players (and a couple of other big challengers) are advancing to a 3rd Rd now, the Olympic weight is getting heavier. They are now 1 game (oopps, match, I Von-ned again) closer to the Gold/Silver/Bronze.
Nadal brutally crushed Hewitt (6-1, 6-2) and shut up critics who were raising eyebrows about the 1st game.
Compare Rafa’s last two matches: 1st Serve % 63 to 64; 1st Serve Points Won % 32-64; 25 winners in 3 sets (21F, 4B, 4V)to 25 in 2 sets (20F, 5B, 3V); UEs 43-28; Break Conv.% 31 (4 out of 13) to 56 (5 out of 9). Temperature was cooler by about 20F.

Both Djoko and Federer the future No. 3 played pretty well in dispatching their opponents: 6-4; 6-2, however in a flip order. Strange name coincidence, Fed beat another Rafa (Rafael Arevalo). In the future, he may just have to satisfy the desire for beating the Real Rafa through this (and other) substitution(s). Soon, he will be heard expressing his fondness for this 2nd Rafa like he did Roddick (“I like to play Rafa 2, not because I beat him”).


Shital Green Says:

Looking at the next round, one or two of the three could exit.

Rafa vs. Andreev (safe and safe in the Qtr. against Melzer or Lu)

Djokovic vs. Youzhny (upset possible; not safe in the Qtr. against Nalby or Monfils)

Fed vs. Berdych (upset possible; not safe in the Qtr. against Simon or Blake)

Nalby vs. Monfils (can go either way)

Looks like the 20 year “trend” will be broken this year.


jane Says:

Shital Green,

Judging by your above summation (11:22 post), you expect Rafa (#1) to go home with Gold? or at least Silver?


Dan Martin Says:

If Federer avenges 2004 and beats Berdych, I think he would prefer to play Blake than Simon. Blake just is unlikely to be consistent enough to beat Roger. Simon is very consistent – Simon is kind of an updated version of Mats Wilander (?) or a poor man’s Murray.


jane Says:

I agree – Simon has stick-to-it-ive-ness; Blake doesn’t. He’s too uneven, and he often chokes against Roger in particular. It’s a belief thing as well as a consistency thing. With Simon, he not only stays in matches and rallies patiently, he has no fear or awe.


sar Says:

Blake doesn’t. He’s too uneven, and he often chokes against Roger in particular

Jane, how true.

“This is where we lose to Roger.” Even his own brother said it in the stands.


Mary Says:

Yesterday, I came across an article (I’ve been searching in vain for it today) about how the powers that be in the Olympic world are none to happy with the WTA/ATP and are looking into fraud charges.
The Olympic people feel that some of the players that withdrew never planned to participate in the first place. It came out after Ana withdrew.
I’m trying to find the link b/c it was quite interesting.


Voh Says:

Shital Green:

“Reason for removal: Junior had to listen to Sean the Boss Man, who does not like anything that gets Von high.”

On what do I get high? Do you mean anything that makes me fight for the truth? Or am I too controversial?


JoshDragon Says:

James Blake, has yet to beat Roger Federer. He’s 0-8 against him and in all of those meetings he’s only been able to take one set. Blake, struggled today against Hrbaty and if he can barely beat Hrbaty then he has no chance against Federer.


Von Says:

Shital:

“They are now 1 game (oopps, match, I Von-ned again) closer to the Gold/Silver/Bronze.”

Sorry for that, I was trying to be facetious yesterday. :)


Dan Martin Says:

Simon may be the next Mecir – I am trying to think of who he reminds me of, but I was up close in Indianapolis and he really impressed me with his mental toughness and adaptable game.


Von Says:

Early this mornirng., NBC attempted to broadcast some tennis for a few minutes. Serena Williams v. Stosur.Serena won. Has anyone seen an entire tennis broadcasted match on NBC for the present Olympics? NBC covers volleyball,gymnastics and swimming more than any other sport. They’re giving tennis the same haphazard type of coverage as they did during the MS and slams. Unbelievable.


Shital Green Says:

Von,
“On what do I get high?”
Maybe, on Shroom.
But the Boss man did not want to get “lifted feeling so gifted.” He wonders, “Suga, how you get so fly.” You may want to watch the Baby Bash’s “Suga Suga” video on youtube.

About getting Von-ned, no need to feel sorry. Your correction protected me before being ambuscaded by hostile elements. Thanks for watching my back.


Shital Green Says:

Von,
Some of the NBC Olympic coverage stretches to USA, CNBC, MSNBC, Oxygen, Telemundo, and Universal HD. Consult NBCOlympics.com for the complete daily listings.


Von Says:

Shital Green:

You have me kafuffled.

“But the Boss man did not want to get “lifted feeling so gifted.” He wonders, “Suga, how you get so fly.” You may want to watch the Baby Bash’s “Suga Suga” video on youtube.”

I don’t know this kind of hip stuff, and I’m not into watching the modern day movies. You gotta help me out here with a translation.

“Thanks for watching my back.”

I’m always watching your back (haven’t you noticed) and I sometimes try to remove the darts, but then I get myself into a word scrimmage.


Shital Green Says:

Von, it’s not a movie; it’s a music video. I am not good at translation, sorry ! Music is a “free floating signifier”: you can skim whatever good you want.


jane Says:

Shital – “Music is a “free floating signifier” – so is money, at least on Wall Street; I wonder what tennis is?


JCF Says:

Von says:

“I see you have the same problem. I thought something was wrong with my computer or they blocked my posts. I posted a comment in response to TD’s at around 1:30 a.m. and then the thread disappeared. There were 7 posts on the thread.”

At first I suspected you had something to do with this… guess not. There weren’t any comments when I read the story, and I didn’t add any myself.

I think Tennis-x should grow a spine if they’re going to publish blogs like this. If they have the courage to write it, they should go all the way, despite any objections a fan might have. Otherwise, don’t write it in the first place.

I don’t think the article was too inflammatory or offensive anyway.

Shital: (how did you get a name like that anyway?)

“Both Djoko and Federer the future No. 3 played pretty well”

I’m pretty sure Fed would feel pretty incensed being called the future #3. While he’s obviously fallen from the top spot, I for now don’t see him dropping to #3. Even though he hasn’t won any big titles, he’s produced more consistent results and had an overall slightly better season than Djokovic has. Mind you, I would not be trading Djok’s season for Fed’s.

I’m glad Rafa survived the Hewitt test (if you can call it that). He was going to be a tough opponent and plays a style not unlike Rafa’s. I do wonder why Hewitt decided to play the Olympics this year. He didn’t play in Athens because he tennis wasn’t an olympic sport and he said it was worthless. Roddick is the reverse, playing Athens but not Beijing. Why the change of mind? Maybe Roddick knew he’d be breathing the exhaust fumes of the most populated country in the world…

“Poor Davydenko crashed. PH Mathieu did him real bad. Wawrinka and Tipsy decided to go home.”

What do you mean they decided to go home? Did they lose, or did they pull out?


zola Says:

The Roddick article is removed? Why?

About the Olympic experience, sure it lacks lust for some players, but those are in minority. From the top 54 accepted, only a few chose not to go or withdrew ( Roddick, Fish, Karlovic)….so, for the rest, it means something.

Fed talks about the Olympic experince in his postmatch interview posted here ( Aug 11)and this is the third olympic in a row for him. Rafa is having the time of his life. The same with Djoko. and the top 3 are all playing great.

Again, I think it is just apples and ornges. GS,Ms, Davis cup and the olympics are totally different experiences. I don’t think they can be compared.


JCF Says:

“I do wonder why Hewitt decided to play the Olympics this year. He didn’t play in Athens because he tennis wasn’t an olympic sport and he said it was worthless. Roddick is the reverse, playing Athens but not Beijing. Why the change of mind? Maybe Roddick knew he’d be breathing the exhaust fumes of the most populated country in the world”

Something further to note, Hewitt who skipped Athens and won Long Island and Washington (with a depleted field) decided to go to the Olympics this year, and lost early. Mardy Fish who won a silver medal in Athens didn’t go this year, and instead lost early this week. I do have to wonder why they change up what worked well for them last time.


Cut the green sheet, all you critics out there Says:

Too bad, Fed’s fellow players keep pooping on the critics face, everytime they try to tear them down.

“I guess he’s going to be No. 2, but I don’t think that he’s No. 2,” said Tursunov. “I still think he’s a better player [than Nadal]. Not a better athlete, maybe, but a better player.”

The crappy thing on your face, is your name sake!


jane Says:

zola,

That article is an interesting take on things – surely the points would count for something, maybe even a lot, especially because they’re “free” points and not attached to the annual rolling ranking system like the rest of the points. So for the top guns, winning gold can potentially mean the difference between a ranking spot. Makes perfect sense; thanks for posting the link.


Shital Green Says:

JCF,
“Shital: (how did you get a name like that anyway?)”
This is your second question about the name. I answered the first one last time. You did not respond to my answer.
This time you sounded like the high school bully that often appears here under various guises. The basis of my comparison: your question precedes before your negation of my opinion, and the question has the bullish undertone of intolerance.
The question lacks authenticity and gesture of friendship. Why would I want to answer your question if that is not a question at all in the first place?
If I am wrong in my assumption and if you provide good reason why I should answer your question, let me VERIFY your identity and qualification before I address your question. Could you care to tell me how I can do that? Do you have a website? Are you listed anywhere? Are you with a reputable organization? By your own rule, take the personal things to email. You can google me up and email me directly from my website if your curiosity is genuine.


Von Says:

JCF:
“At first I suspected you had something to do with this… guess not. There weren’t any comments when I read the story, and I didn’t add any myself.”

Sorry to disappoint you, I don’t have that kind of clout and/or influemce. The article was most probably removed because it’s unrelated to the Olympics. However, I’m curious though, as to why you’d think I would go so far as to request its removal? Enlighten me, please.


Von Says:

Hopefully, someone can answer and/or educate me on the following:

What happens next year regarding the ranking points that the athletes receive for participating in the Olympics? Will the points be deducted from their ranking points considering there will not be a tournament to defend those points? Thanks in advance for an answer.


Shital Green Says:

Von,
Olympic point is treated as extra and will not be deducted next year.
The bigger puzzle is about the different point system from next year. They have not worked out yet how they are going to synchronize 175, 200, 225, 250, 300, 500, 1000 points of this year with the three flat points for 1000 Series, 500 Series, and 250 Series next year.


Von Says:

Shital:

Thanks for the above info and your prompt reply.

I sincerely hope ATP comes up with a solution quickly with reference to the new tournament designations and the points awarded, respectively. Considering the chaotic mess ATP has created with the MS tourneys, I sincerely hope they have some semblance of where they’re going, or hope to be, before January, 2009. It would have been benefical to them if they had a concrete plan in mind before announcing their intention to change all of the tourneys. They’ve put the cart before the horse! So what else is new? I’m not surprised, are you?


Fedex Says:

Green Sheet :

You are a funny dude.(?) I am assuming you have updated your name to remove any tiny traces of subtlety you had before *WINK*


zola Says:

Jane
You are welcome for the link. I didn’t get the “free points”. Fo you know long do the athletes keep the points from the Olympics?


jane Says:

zola,

I don’t know how long the players keep their Olympic points; at least until the end of this year, and probably until next year at this time? Makes sense since it’s a yearly rolling ranking system that they’d roll off next year. But it’s difficult to say. Maybe they keep them for 4 years??

Anyone else know how long players will have their Olympics points?


Sean Randall Says:

Jane, by rule Olympic points or points from any event will stay on for 52 weeks, the only exception being the Masters Cup. So points earned in Beijing this week would be removed around August 18th of next year. At least that is my understanding.


jane Says:

Thanks for the info Sean.


jane Says:

zola,

What I meant by “free points” is that the players aren’t defending any points from last year, so the points they get at the Olympics are like gravy, or icing on the cake.


Mike de Paris Says:

On the points tip, anyone know how many ATP points players are picking up for getting to the 2nd round? That wild card entry could really be a major ranking boost for the El Salvadoran Arevalo, who I believe is currently ranked somewhere in the high 400s!


Shital Green Says:

Mike de Paris,
Arevalo will get 25 points for his 2nd rd.


JCF Says:

“Shital Green Says:

JCF,
“Shital: (how did you get a name like that anyway?)”
This is your second question about the name. I answered the first one last time. You did not respond to my answer.”

Oh? In that case, I must have missed it. My apologies. Messages can be buried deep in long threads, and Von knows that I do miss them sometimes, thus why there was no response to your answer. I know it had been on my mind to ask you for a while now, but I had forgotten that I already asked (Von understands my memory problems). If I can remember what thread I asked it in, I would go and search for it myself.

“This time you sounded like the high school bully that often appears here under various guises. The basis of my comparison: your question precedes before your negation of my opinion, and the question has the bullish undertone of intolerance.”

You’ve completely misconstrued my tone and intent behind the question. I asked before my response and placed it in parentheses because it was an off topic aside that had nothing to do with the discussion at hand. If I did ask it before already (which I don’t doubt your word on), I would have placed the question in the exact same place. I am not some bully, and any intolerance you perceive is a complete misunderstanding. To be honest, it puzzles me how you even arrived at such a conclusion based on my question and where I placed it.

“The question lacks authenticity and gesture of friendship. Why would I want to answer your question if that is not a question at all in the first place?”

You don’t have to answer it. I will reiterate again that I missed your reply the last time I asked it as these threads can get pretty long and I am forced to skim them. Von is a person I have exchanges with and she notices quite a lot that I miss some of her replies, or re-ask questions that she already answered and thus seemingly ignore her posts.

“If I am wrong in my assumption and if you provide good reason why I should answer your question, let me VERIFY your identity and qualification before I address your question.”

This question comes at a rather incidental time. In another thread (the one where Federer defeated ‘Rafael’) there actually was a person who posted under my name, but any astute observer would have noticed that I don’t write like that. I like to think I’m a bit more intelligent than that (most likely teenage) poster. I can assure you however, that there was only one instance I have seen of a person using my screen name, and it was that time. This is the real me, and the post you are responding to was also posted by the real me.

As for why I asked the question. It is inconsequential whether you answer it or not. It was an innocent question borne of curiosity. I DO remember once asking how you pronounce the name, which I asked in the same manner — in parenthesis before my actual reply — as an indication that it was a digression from the real discussion. I don’t recall asking where you got the name however, but again, I admit that my memory is very unreliable at times.

“Could you care to tell me how I can do that? Do you have a website? Are you listed anywhere? Are you with a reputable organization? By your own rule, take the personal things to email. You can google me up and email me directly from my website if your curiosity is genuine.”

I guess you’ll have to take it on faith that I am who I claim to be. But a good detective like Von will always be able to spot frauds. I think she is familiar enough with my writing style to tell when it’s me or not. And I think if I posted under a different name, she’d be able to figure out it was me. I suck at trying to be someone else.

No I don’t have a website, or know yours or your email address, nor do I want to share mine.

You are making a big deal out of a such a trivial matter. If you don’t want to answer the question, it is fine by me. Like I said, it is of no consequence to me, but merely a minor curiosity. It’s not often I meet someone with a name like yours. That you dismissed the actual discussion (whatever it was) in my post after the question tells me you’re quite miffed by this.

If you remember what thread it was that I last asked the question, that would be fine by me. I’m more than happy to just dig it up. Not to bring Von into this again, but in the past whenever she noted that she’d replied to me before about something, I immediately go and dig up what I’ve missed. I just don’t know where to look for this one, but I will try google later.

I apologize again for the misunderstanding.


JCF Says:

Hi Von,

“Sorry to disappoint you, I don’t have that kind of clout and/or influemce. The article was most probably removed because it’s unrelated to the Olympics. However, I’m curious though, as to why you’d think I would go so far as to request its removal? Enlighten me, please.”

Your name just came to mind first when considering fervent defenders of Roddick as of late. I recall you taking things quite personally about his criticism not long ago and while you’re not the only Roddick supporter here (admittedly there haven’t been a great deal of them) you were just the one I thought of first. You seem the most passionate of them. I know there are a few others, their names just escape me at the moment.

“What happens next year regarding the ranking points that the athletes receive for participating in the Olympics? Will the points be deducted from their ranking points considering there will not be a tournament to defend those points? Thanks in advance for an answer.”

I would expect that the points will be removed in 52 weeks, and there will be no chance to defend the points. I doubt the ATP would let a player keep a free 400 points (gold medal) for four years. This is bigger than a small ITF title, and the 400 points is enough to keep you in the top 100 for four years without doing anything (direct entry to all GS tournaments for four years).


JCF Says:

Shital,

“This time you sounded like the high school bully that often appears here under various guises. The basis of my comparison: your question precedes before your negation of my opinion, and the question has the bullish undertone of intolerance.”

I have gone and re-read what I actually posted in that message in reply to yours (I have quoted it below). The ‘negation’ of your opinion is purely coincidental and me asking where you got your name had nothing to do with it. If I was posting in agreement, I would have asked the question just the same.

This was a misunderstanding on your part.

*********************************
Shital: (how did you get a name like that anyway?)

“Both Djoko and Federer the future No. 3 played pretty well”

I’m pretty sure Fed would feel pretty incensed being called the future #3. While he’s obviously fallen from the top spot, I for now don’t see him dropping to #3. Even though he hasn’t won any big titles, he’s produced more consistent results and had an overall slightly better season than Djokovic has. Mind you, I would not be trading Djok’s season for Fed’s.

I’m glad Rafa survived the Hewitt test (if you can call it that). He was going to be a tough opponent and plays a style not unlike Rafa’s. I do wonder why Hewitt decided to play the Olympics this year. He didn’t play in Athens because he tennis wasn’t an olympic sport and he said it was worthless. Roddick is the reverse, playing Athens but not Beijing. Why the change of mind? Maybe Roddick knew he’d be breathing the exhaust fumes of the most populated country in the world…
*********************************

That was the quote, but only the first paragraph was in reply to your post. The second was an aside. I think even from reading the first paragraph it can clearly be seen that there was no hostility or ill intent in it.

I am tempted to say that I’ve learnt something about you today that I didn’t know about you, but I won’t be so quick to jump to conclusions. You say that you suspect that what I had wrote was not actually written by me. On the contrary, I don’t see anything I wrote as being out of character. On the other hand, your reaction to my question looks even more out of character with the SG that I’ve been reading than my question. I will not suspect as you did me that you are an impostor however. You’ve always seemed like a pleasant chap. This is an angle of you I can’t recall seeing, though again, I do miss messages a lot.

I’d like to clear up again, that I am not the high school bully posting under different names. You can’t hide who you are. I have too many idiosyncrasies I can’t hide it. If I tried it, a good detective would not be fooled. For me to convincingly be someone else, I would have to deliberately introduce spelling and grammatical errors that I don’t normally make, and sound dumber or post opinions that I do not hold. Why would I want to do that? It just isn’t natural. The only reason I can think of for someone to use multiple aliases is to slam another player or commenter without repercussion, but I have enough balls to do that with my own alias and regularly call out on those who don’t.

I did see one very recent instance of another poster using my name, but I will be sure to in future point out every instance of a message written by ‘JCF’ not penned by me. I made several posts in a row in that thread. All were made by me. I should have merged them into one single post, but I didn’t because I was too impatient to scroll up and down (between comment and comment box) every time.


JCF Says:

“Sorry to disappoint you, I don’t have that kind of clout and/or influemce. The article was most probably removed because it’s unrelated to the Olympics. However, I’m curious though, as to why you’d think I would go so far as to request its removal? Enlighten me, please.”

Oh sorry, I misunderstood your question again. I noticed the blog post criticizing Roddick was removed rather quickly, and couldn’t think of any reason why it would have been removed, since these kind of blog posts are commonplace around here. My only guess was that it offended someone, who obviously must have complained about it. I can think of no other reason why it would have been removed (not that there mightn’t be one). Reflecting upon your impassioned ire the last time Sean slammed Roddick, you were naturally my first suspect. Just a gut suspicion.

Someone suggested that it might have been deleted because it had nothing to do with olympics. That doesn’t sound plausible to me. This blog doesn’t stick to just one event.

Please don’t take this the wrong way… I didn’t mean much by it. The internet has a way of making it easy to misconstrue one’s words.


jane Says:

JCF,

If I may be so bold as to interject, if you look at the postings following your inquiry, you’ll notice that two posters – “cut the…” and “fedex” – comment directly or indirectly, but in both cases definitely rudely, on Shital Green’s name. Therefore, it’s certainly understandable that Shital may’ve been irritated by any references to or questions regarding his given name – he is still, nevertheless, a very “pleasant chap”.


Shital Green Says:

JCF,
“That you dismissed the actual discussion…tells me you’re quite miffed by this.”

There was no discussion to resolve an issue. I expressed my opinion; you did yours. End of the story.

About the name, you first asked how it was pronounced. I provided you with a make-shift phonetic transcription. I know the 2nd question is not the same as the first, but your muteness to the first rendered my answer “non-consequential.” This time, your placement of the question, regardless of parenthesis, invited mis-perception, in a similar manner my questioning of your question did about your misreading of my orneriness. Most significantly, you asked the question at a wrong time when a bullish kid was making fun of my name (see above “green sheet”). And the effect went beyond your intention.

About the question regarding your identity, you may be who you say you are (“me”). But that does not tell me anything about your real name, profession, qualification, etc. Unlike me, you are unverifiable and safe. I use my documented/ official name here as elsewhere the same way, and anyone in the web can google up “Shital Green” to track me (it will take you to my website and university, etc). We are not on the level playing field. Other posters can say random things and disappear without a trace, but I don’t have that privilege. This is my irreversible mistake.

Name Origin: I am one third German Swiss Jewish, one third Nepalese-Tibetan Indian, one third Spanish. My name has duel origin: Hebrew (Shittah= shittim, a tree from the wood of which the ark and fittings of the Hebrew tabernacle were made) and Sanskrit (= cool as in temperature; sensation of morning dew).

My answering should tell you that I don’t consider you bullish any longer. We are good.


Noel Says:

JCF,
I am equally perplexed by the removal of that Rod post.It talked about whether Rod could go back to top 3 in the rankings and by and large was pretty ‘harmless’.It was more realistic than critical and only some points could be contested.Hardly the “Rod stinks up wimby” or the “Fed craps out” type.These headlines were in poor taste.This Rod article was written by Richard Vach and afaik,hardly any Rod fan ‘retaliated’.As you said,pretty average and commonplace.The Olympic argument is simply implausible because we have had the L.A. event mentioned here.I can’t think of a logical reason behind the removal of that post.I think there must have been some technical error like a database error or accidental deletion etc.I am surprised that no ‘official’ explanation has been given.


Shital Green Says:

Thanks, Jane. I had not read your interjection until I posted my response.


Noel Says:

Shital,
I actually used to think that you were a female of Indian origin when I first started posting here.Shital is a very popular name for Indian girls.That gender thing got resolved when you talked about your resemblance to Agassi and I actually saw some of the pics.I read that reply to Jcf about your name’s pronunciation and that was obviously different from the way the Indian HIndi/Sanskrit name is pronounced.I concluded therefore that my hunch about your origin was wrong.Its like ‘she’ as in the pronoun and the ‘tal’ is like the one in brutal although the t sound is not the normal English sound.This ‘t’ is pronounced the way a lot of people in the Caribbean do.Anyhow,I am,for some strange reason,quite happy that my initial hunch about your origin was at least partially right.


Latent Talent Says:

As far as I know, Olympics points will be counted in the “best 5 tournaments” category.


zola Says:

Jane, Sean,
thanks for clarification.

********

these are the olympic ranking points:

Men’s ATP ranking points

Gold Medal – 400
Silver Medal – 280
Bronze Medal – 205
Loser 3rd/4th – 155
Quarterfinals – 100
Round of 16 – 50
Round of 32 – 25
1st Round – 5

Women’s WTA ranking points

Gold Medal – 353
Silver Medal – 245
Bronze Medal – 175
Loser 3rd/4th – 135
Quarterfinals – 90
Round of 16 – 48
Round of 32 – 28
1st Round – 1

(its on itftenns page. if I give the link this post will be published next week!)


Latent Talent Says:

My cousin played a prank on me.

It was an impostor.

My dog used my username because it did not know it had to change the information.

3 stooges who become jackasses every single time.

Entertainment unlimited on these blogs.


Von Says:

JCF:

“Someone suggested that it might have been deleted because it had nothing to do with olympics. That doesn’t sound plausible to me. This blog doesn’t stick to just one event.”

I wrote that comment. My reason: All of the other articles were Olympics themes, and the Roddick article not so. That’s the only logicl explanation I can find. Also, if they had kept that article in the featured articles column one of the Olympics articles would drop off. Who knows, your guess is as good as mine, but that’s how I see it.

______________
“Your name just came to mind first when considering fervent defenders of Roddick as of late…..while you’re not the only Roddick supporter here (admittedly there haven’t been a great deal of them) you were just the one I thought of first. You seem the most passionate of them.

JCF: You’re correct — it seems like it’s a one person defense for Roddick. He has a few more supporters on this site, but they post infrequently. It appears to me, and I have remarked on this before for both Roddick and Djokovic, several of the posters have moved on away from Tennis.X. I wish those who are still around would be more pro-active with the rebuttals on Roddick, because I’m a bit worn out from the tussles, and most of all, being reprimended by Sean for speaking up on Roddick’s behalf. As a result of the foregoing, I would be the last person to influence Tennis.X’s decision with respect to the deletion of the Roddick article. Thanks for the reply.

_______________
Shital & JCF:

I’m commenting because I was mentioned in JCF’s post to you, Shital. I’d like to state that both of you are on my list of favourite male posters on Tennis.X. You’re both great guys, and I enjoy exchanging ideas and discussing tennis topics with you both. Shital, I can vouch for JCF with respect to his memory. He does not remember too much. I sometimes have to remind him and repeat myself if I need an answer from him. I’ve made a joke out of this whenever we exchange posts. That said, I believe him when he said his oversifght in not answering your posts is genuine. I used to be somewhat miffed about this in the past, but now that I’ve gotten to know him some more, I realize that he forgets quite easily. He’s the type where he’d be arguing with another person, gets to the middle of the argument, and then out of the blue asks ‘what was it we were arguing about, refresh my memory’. At that point the other person would want to smak him. :) :) I find it to be humorous. Additionally, I do not think he would engage in posting under different names. It would be out of charcter, OCD yes, different names NO. With poor memory problems, he’d probably forget to change the fictiitious name.

JCF wrote: “For me to convincingly be someone else, I would have to deliberately introduce spelling and grammatical errors that I don’t normally make, and sound dumber or post opinions that I do not hold.”

He wouldn’t remember what he originally wrote, period. And, JCF, you do make two blatant spelling errors (1) definitely — you write “defin[a]tely; and (2) assinine — you write “asinine”. So there. I normally wouldn’t point it out, but these are special circumstances, so don’t hold it against me.

All in all, I don’t think JCF’s a bully or tries to be one. He has a tendency to jump in prematurely, but he later steps back and tries to remedy his actions.

Shital, you stated:

“Other posters can say random things and disappear without a trace, but I don’t have that privilege. This is my irreversible mistake.”

This is so very true and it places you at a huge disadvantage, but then again why would anyone want to so vicious. I’ve used the same post name continuously over the period I have been posting on this site. Only cowards and mentally disturbed people would want to use different post names, but, if we enjoy posting, we have no choice but to ignore them. Easier said than done.

“Name Origin: I am one third German Swiss Jewish, one third Nepalese-Tibetan Indian, one third Spanish.”

It’s the Nepalese Tibetan Indian heritage that gives you that Agassi look alike features. Agassi’s Armenian.

“My answering should tell you that I don’t consider you bullish any longer. We are good.”

This is very true. JCF, from what I’ve observed from Shital during the time I’ve been posting, viz., he would ignore anyone and refrain from any discussions if he’s still angry with that person. However, he’s very kind and forgiving. Sporry for being so late with my comments, but I’m working under the gun or working by the light of my burning bridges. I think in this case, the bridge is 90 percent burnt down. And, this too shall pass!! :)


JCF Says:

Shital,

“About the name, you first asked how it was pronounced. I provided you with a make-shift phonetic transcription. I know the 2nd question is not the same as the first, but your muteness to the first rendered my answer “non-consequential.” This time, your placement of the question, regardless of parenthesis, invited mis-perception, in a similar manner my questioning of your question did about your misreading of my orneriness. Most significantly, you asked the question at a wrong time when a bullish kid was making fun of my name (see above “green sheet”). And the effect went beyond your intention. ”

Sorry I guess. Bad timing. I didn’t read their messages and this was a giant misunderstanding.

You did answer my question the first time, about how it’s pronounced, and you told me. There was nothing further to comment on, so I didn’t comment. I’m not good with foreign names, my guess (without yet reading the rest of what you’ve written) is that this is your real name rather than some alias and that this might have had something to do with you taking exception to my curiosity.

“About the question regarding your identity, you may be who you say you are (”me”). But that does not tell me anything about your real name, profession, qualification, etc. Unlike me, you are unverifiable and safe. I use my documented/ official name here as elsewhere the same way, and anyone in the web can google up “Shital Green” to track me (it will take you to my website and university, etc). We are not on the level playing field. Other posters can say random things and disappear without a trace, but I don’t have that privilege. This is my irreversible mistake.”

Ok, that confirms it. Looking back on the question I asked about how you got the name, knowing now that it is your real name, I realize that the question was inappropriate (my perhaps unreasonable assumption was that you made up the name or got it from a fictional character, thus prompting the question). I sincerely apologize for that misunderstanding on my part.

As for my identity, I don’t feel it’s necessary for people to know the identities of another person in order to have meaningful discussions on the internet. This problem would be alleviated somewhat if blog comments required registration and login in order to prevent impostors and people who use multiple names. I have not looked you up, because I don’t feel that I need to know who you are in order to have a good discussion with you on a topic we’re both into.

“Name Origin: I am one third German Swiss Jewish, one third Nepalese-Tibetan Indian, one third Spanish. My name has duel origin: Hebrew (Shittah= shittim, a tree from the wood of which the ark and fittings of the Hebrew tabernacle were made) and Sanskrit (= cool as in temperature; sensation of morning dew).

My answering should tell you that I don’t consider you bullish any longer. We are good.”

I know it’s too late now, and I wish I had said it yesterday, but if I had known it was your real name, I would have withdrawn the question. I was actually hoping you wouldn’t answer, because the question was only a curiosity to me if you made up the name or got it from an existing character.

Thank you, and I’m glad this didn’t get worse.

Noel,

“I am equally perplexed by the removal of that Rod post.It talked about whether Rod could go back to top 3 in the rankings and by and large was pretty ‘harmless’.It was more realistic than critical and only some points could be contested.Hardly the “Rod stinks up wimby” or the “Fed craps out” type.These headlines were in poor taste.This Rod article was written by Richard Vach and afaik,hardly any Rod fan ‘retaliated’.As you said,pretty average and commonplace.The Olympic argument is simply implausible because we have had the L.A. event mentioned here.I can’t think of a logical reason behind the removal of that post.I think there must have been some technical error like a database error or accidental deletion etc.I am surprised that no ‘official’ explanation has been given.”

I agree. The post was not inflammatory or offensive in any way, certainly not beyond the standards of this site. If it was a technical error, they would have fixed it by now and put it back up. The silence on the matter from Sean, Staff, Dan, et al only exacerbates the mystery.

Von,

Thanks for teaching me some more new words. I’m a prolaterian too.

“JCF: You’re correct — it seems like it’s a one person defense for Roddick. He has a few more supporters on this site, but they post infrequently. It appears to me, and I have remarked on this before for both Roddick and Djokovic, several of the posters have moved on away from Tennis.X. I wish those who are still around would be more pro-active with the rebuttals on Roddick, because I’m a bit worn out from the tussles, and most of all, being reprimended by Sean for speaking up on Roddick’s behalf. As a result of the foregoing, I would be the last person to influence Tennis.X’s decision with respect to the deletion of the Roddick article. Thanks for the reply.”

Maybe they’ve just been bullied away. There was a lot of talk about him in 2003 when he had an excellent year by those standards (the bar was raised in 2004 obviously). I think if he can return to that kind of form, defense would be a lot easier. The Fed fans think they’re being persecuted due to his recent results, but actually they’d just gotten too used to every blog post being full of superlative praises, like his ‘ability to reduce the explosive Andy Roddick and combative Lleyton Hewitt to earnest spokesmen for his brilliance.’

“Shital, I can vouch for JCF with respect to his memory.”

I enjoyed this bit. Sadly everything you said was more or less without exaggeration. I do indeed forget the point (I don’t re-read posts) when they get long.

“He wouldn’t remember what he originally wrote, period. And, JCF, you do make two blatant spelling errors (1) definitely — you write “defin[a]tely; and (2) assinine — you write “asinine”. So there. I normally wouldn’t point it out, but these are special circumstances, so don’t hold it against me.”

Youch! Thanks for that. Now if you see some new poster making those exact spelling errors, you’ll know wouldn’t you? ‘definately’ is something I’ve always gotten wrong. Asinine – I believe the spelling depends on where you come from. I know you’ve always been observant about a person’s posting behavior, but to even remember particular misspellings is scary… American english is killing me by the way. I live in Australia and am expected to use British english, except all my spellcheckers and pretty much the entire internet, is americanized, and I end up with a mishmash of american and british spelt words, which my teachers used to have a field day with (they mark american spellings as incorrect spelling). Basically, if I type the way I’m meant to, maybe 3 words in every sentence will get a red squiggly underline. So I’ve tried to just americanize everything. Sometimes I lapse. I’m not sure if ‘surprize’ is an american word. It doesn’t look like one, though it ought to be. ‘Revize’?

“JCF, from what I’ve observed from Shital during the time I’ve been posting, viz., he would ignore anyone and refrain from any discussions if he’s still angry with that person. However, he’s very kind and forgiving.”

Thanks again. All’s well that ends well.


jane Says:

Von,

You’re quoting Eliot here, yes? “And, this too shall pass!!” I say this to myself all the time, especially while marking. LOL. Good luck with those burning bridges. Get to the other side!


Von Says:

jane: “Von,You’re quoting Eliot here, yes? “And, this too shall pass!”

No, not Elliott, albeit he’s stated the same. That quote is from the days of the reign of King Solomon, and there’s a story behind it. Find a robot to read the papers for you; and the rest will be history.

“Good luck with those burning bridges. Get to the other side!”

My case should be over in a week, in the meantime, I’ll have to rely on 5 hours of sleep nightly. And, this too shall pass. :)


jane Says:

Von,

Well here’s T.S. Eliot for you as well, from his poem “Little Gidding”:

“And all shall be well and / all manner of living things shall be well”

Including you! And guess what? Roddick is up a break in the third set.


jane Says:

Von,

What do you think is up with Andy’s serve; he still is throwing in a lot of aces, but too many double faults. Schwank just broke back and there was at least one double in that game from Andy. I wonder if it’s related to the shoulder/back not being completely well?


Von Says:

JCF: “Von, Thanks for teaching me some more new words. I’m a prolaterian too.”

You’re welcome. I thought you were Howard Hughes’ son and you didn’t work, the OCD thing. :) My mother refers to the big words as $1 words. :) While we’re on words etc., how about sticking a capital “A” in from of “american”. It’s sort of sacrilegious to use a lower letter for people’s nationality. OK Mr. Aussie? :) Just kidding around, but all names of countries should be spelt with a capital letter too.

“Maybe they’ve just been bullied away.”
Oh, yes. I’ve had to deal with several of those bullies and wanted to quit posting many times. Those were some hellish times. It’s gotten better, or maybe, I’ve toughened up, but some of it still happens.

“Youch! Thanks for that. Now if you see some new poster making those exact spelling errors, you’ll know wouldn’t you? ‘definately’.”

Giner, your roommate, is guilty of that misspelling of ‘definitely’ too. About finding out an impostor, by misspelling; Yes, and No. It could be a typo for another person. Usually, you can see an impostor from the tone and writing style of their remarks.

“I’m not sure if ’surprize’ is an american word. It doesn’t look like one, though it ought to be. ‘Revize’?” Surprise, surprise, No, wrong. Funnily, the Americans spel both with an “S” like the British. To master the difference you have to do what I did, go to school in both countries.

“Thanks again. All’s well that ends well.” You’re welcome!! Now behave yourself, and stop getting so fixated about people’s names. I remember how fixated you were about my name. You checked out baby names, websites, et al., and then you found out your dog had the same name. That was so funny. :) :D

“All’s well that ends well.” Did you read or study this Shakespearean play? Don’t worry, be happy!! :P


Von Says:

JANE:

“what do you think is up with Andy’s serve; he still is throwing in a lot of aces, but too many double faults. Schwank just broke back and there was at least one double in that game from Andy. I wonder if it’s related to the shoulder/back not being completely well?”

I believe his timing is off. It was visible last week, even Pam Shriver said she noticed it. It’s all related to the shoulder/back. The shoulder problem will hinder the serve, especially the toss. Too bad, but he should take some more time for the shoulder to heal. Playing with a bum shoulder will only complicate matters and the more he loses, the more his confidence will plummet. When a big server loses his important weapon, his serve, then it’s lights out. I hate this!


Shital Green Says:

Von,
Can you stop by JMac thread, please?


jane Says:

Von,
Well I am happy, at least, that Andy won easily in the tiebreak. He showed real mettle to fight back from match point for Schwank! And then he held and forced a tiebreak, which he won. So all-in-all, at least he came through. It’s just a shame that his shoulder and back haven’t totally healed in time for the hardcourt season.


Von Says:

jane:

“It’s just a shame that his shoulder and back haven’t totally healed in time for the hardcourt season.”

It’s very disappointing. One positive though, it should put an end to the statements made by those who feel he’s lying. Or maybe, I’m just hoping for miracles. I remember a poster stating a few months ago that nothing’s wrong with Andy’s shoulder; he’s just faking it. It’s unbelievable that someone could be so emphatic about another’s injury. I prefer to give the player the benefit of the doubt when it comes to injuries and sickness. Unless you are a person’s doctor, you shouldn’t make such statements.


fornetti Says:

I do not believe this

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