Will Andy Murray Ever Win A Grand Slam?
by Sean Randall | July 12th, 2012, 11:37 am
  • 213 Comments

Watching a replay of the Wimbledon final last night on the Tennis Channel, the question inevitably comes up, Will Andy Murray ever win a Grand Slam?

Murray won over the hearts and minds of a lot fans Sunday with a strong(er) performance followed by an emotional post-match ceremony, but unfortunately a good start and a few tears won’t propel him over the top. Often in sports, just because you might deserve it doesn’t mean you get it.

After four misses in Major finals Murray deserves one and he’s the kind of player that I think should get one – If Thomas Johansson and Andy Roddick have Slams why shouldn’t Murray? Murray’s problem, though, is that he plays in a suped-up era with three of the all time greats who don’t seem to want to share the riches with anyone but themselves. How selfish of them!

The good news for Andy is there doesn’t appear to be any future Roger Federers, Rafael Nadals or Novak Djokovic’s on the horizon. Yeah, three is enough! Milos Raonic has a booming serve, monster forehand and an impressive tennis IQ, but a future double digit Slam winner? Doubtful.

Ryan Harrison, Bernard Tomic are going to be Top 10 type players, but they too don’t have that standout next level of game we see from our current Big Three. There is Juan Martin Del Potro and a few other players Murray will have to deal with, yet they too are beatable.

At 25 Murray’s also in the middle of that 24-26 peak window. Federer just won at almost 31 so I’d give Murray at least 4-5 years to win that maiden Slam. Plus, Murray’s game isn’t reliant on one big shot or one skillset. His versatility and his durability – apart from his whinging – should serve him well late into his 20s and early 30s. And he can continue to “learn” to become more offensive minded.

The bad news, however, is the 800 lb. gorilla: The presence of Djokovic, Nadal and Federer. If one of them opposes Murray in the final of a Slam I just don’t see how Murray’s going to win a first one against them anymore. And none of them seem to be going away anytime soon, not even Federer.

I remarked on Murray’s expansive game, yet against any of the Big Three – even though he did a lot right on Sunday – that game falls short. And mentally, in Slam finals Murray’s just not there. Not yet, at least.

Murray came out so well against Federer on Sunday, like he was shot out of a cannon. Eventually he came down to earth but he still hung on to win the first.

With the match in the balance in the pivotal second, Murray had an excellent chance at a passing shot on break point. I believe it was 15-40, 2-2 in the second when Federer duffed an approach shot giving Murray a sitter forehand pass for the break. Andy basically gagged, hitting what should have been a winning shot right back to Federer who eventually won the point with a smash.

Had Murray won that point, gone up a break in the second 3-2 maybe he rides that momentum taking the set and with it a 2-0 lead, and likely the title. It’s a big Maybe. But bottom line when the opportunity presented itself he flinched.

Murray had another chance early in the fourth to pull ahead 2-0 with a break, but again he just couldn’t covert the passing shot.

Credit to Federer who served, volleyed and hit his backhand extremely well. Roger won the match. Murray didn’t lose it.

But those misses to me is a sign Andy still doesn’t have it between the ears. It’s those moments like he had on those break points that you have to capitalize on. To be a Slam winner and to beat a great like Federer, in those situations you have to convert easy opportunities.

Had it been a match in Cincinnati or Miami, he probably makes those shots. But on that stage he couldn’t get it done.

No surprise, Federer is now 3-0, winning 9 of 10 sets, against Murray in Grand Slam finals while in ATP-level events Murray leads 8-5. That’s a striking difference.

At least Murray did bring out a more offensive game, one that put him in position to win. Now he just needs to somehow get it right upstairs in the head.

Coach Ivan Lendl lost his first four Slams before embarking on a Hall of Fame career, so there is hope. (Kim Clijsters also lost her first four.) But Lendl in his day brought power, force and mental toughness to the table. I’m not sure what makes Murray stand out that much above Federer, Nadal and Djokovic. That’s the hard part, getting that first Major by having to beat a Big Three.

After all, the Big Three had it easier in their first final wins. Federer beat Mark Philippoussis to win his first Wimbledon. Nadal took down Mariano Puerta at the French and Djokovic outdueled JW Tsonga in Australia.

Where’s Murray’s luck?

That said, I do think eventually things will break right for Murray and one year, likely in Australia I think, he’ll come up with that big win. And we can finally, almost mercifully, put this storyline to bed. Andy Murray Grand Slam champion? Sure, why not.

ADDENDUM: Where’s Murray’s best chance to win?
1. Australia: Best surface for Murray, 2-time finalist, less pressure being so far from England, maybe Big Three are off their game early in year, heat factor
2. US Open: Big Three tired/injured from summer battles, good surface, fan support, Nadal’s worst surface(?)
3. Wimbledon: Too much pressure, would need a lot of luck in the final playing someone like Berdych, Monfils or Lukas Kubot
4. French Open: Too much Rafa, might beat Federer in a SF but couldn’t beat an in-form Djokovic on clay in best-of-5


Also Check Out:
Juan Martin Del Potro Targets A Grand Slam Title This Year
Andy Murray Is Excited For His First Grand Slam Defense
Andy Murray Hits New York, Visits Charlie Rose, Adidas [Video]
Jo-Wilfried Tsonga: “This Year I Want To Win A Grand Slam”
Andy Murray: I Can Have A Year Like Novak’s!

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213 Comments for Will Andy Murray Ever Win A Grand Slam?

dinah Says:

Just maybe Murray win a Grand Slam


Humble Rafa Says:

Mr. Lady Forehand is a mental midget. He can choke against Ryan Harrison, if it’s a grandslam final.


Sean Randall Says:

HR, that’s terrible. Murray would beat Harrison, if it were in Australia.


tfouto Says:

Sean,

I think what you wrote is reasonable. But in tennis suprises do happen, a lot. So maybe Murray will get a 2.0 version or maybe not. Who knows?


andrea Says:

andy has played some of his best, competitive matches in australia. he is in that awkward age range though where he’s up against novak and rafa. but maybe it will all come together one day.

when you read about the players that are coming up the ranks, it’s a little depressing. no real stand outs.


V S Manian Says:

I also agree that Andy Murray has the capability to win a Grand Slam or two. However, as long as Roger Federer, Novak Djokovic and Rafael Nadal are around, he will find it extremely difficult to win, though I am not saying that he will never win a Slam. Hence, it is very important for him to prolong his career as long as possible.

The longevity of Federer is mainly due to his smooth and silne style, with minimal strain to his body. However, players like Nadal and Murray are literally running behind every ball, straining their legs a lot. This will, in due course, endanger their chances of a longer career. That is why already a debate like “Who will retire first – Federer or Nadal’ started making rounds. If Murray continues his mad run behind every ball (similar to Nadal) he will find it difficult to sustain till his doors are opened.

Nadal has no variety or alternative game plans. He is capable of simply hitting the ball from one corner to another and simply running faster to just touch the ball (his luck will bring the ball back to court). There is no variation in Nadal’s bag. So, his running is somewhat understandable. However, Murray’s game and skills are certainly superior than Nadal’s. So, Murray should ensure fitness and wait for his chances in future.


El Flaco Says:

“With the match in the balance in the pivotal second, Murray had an excellent chance at a passing shot on break point. I believe it was 15-40, 2-2 in the second when Federer duffed an approach shot giving Murray a sitter forehand pass for the break.”

This is typical of Fed when he is nervous. He prematurely rushes the net on a less than stellar approach shot. Nadal would have said thank you very much and dipped a cross court backhand winner on that play. Murray should have used what used to be his favorite passing shot which is when he rolls over that cross court forehand. It would have dipped more and Fed probably wouldn’t have reached it or would have volleyed it off the ground. Murray uses the new flat Lendl forehand too much now. He did the same thing on championship point. If he had rolled over that forehand it would have been a winner or shoe string volley for Fed. Use the string technology in that situation.


jane Says:

Yes, he will win one, definitely. And soon. That’s what I think.


Sienna Says:

He’ll win one next time he doesnot meet Fed in final or semi and it is not Garros or AU Open.


The Great Davy Says:

Even if Murray play me in next final (US OPEN) I will crush him. The Great Davy is making a great return these Summer !


jane Says:

I think his best slams are AO and Wimbledon, and the consistent results he’s had at both bear that out. He has said, however, that he really likes the USO, but at the same time, he’s had some early losses there over the years (to Cilic, to Wawa). I actually don’t see the “pressure” at Wimbledon as a problem, and neither does Andy. He’s said on numerous occasions, including in his post match speech at this year’s final, that the support he has there actually helps him. I think his team do a good job of shielding him from day to day press too. Still, I think his best slam is Australia; he’s already reached two finals there, and he was very close to beating Nole there last year. I can easily see him winning it in 2013. And who knows about this year’s USO? He is a contender for sure. I kind of feel like Rafa is going to come back with something to prove though.


jamie Says:

AO 2013.


alison Says:

I hope Rafa can come back,after that early wimbledon loss,as regards to Andy i think its a question of when not if,hes getting closer all the time,it would be an absolute travesty if he doesnt win a GS at some point,and i also believe that he can beat any of the top 3 on his day,he just needs an element of luck,and surely no one can be that unlucky everytime,my late father used to say that luck evens itself out eventually.


alison Says:

Hope your right Jamie thanks.


Fot Says:

When Nalbandian made that Wimbledon final and lost, people said “He’ll be back and will win one 1 day”. Nalbandian hasn’t even made another grand slam final.

When Andy Roddick kept making those Wimbledon finals, people said “he’ll win it one day”. He never has, and is going backwards in the rankings. (at least he does have 1 US Open).

I’m saying this to say that, sure, Murray might win a slam, but history doesn’t say he WILL win one just because so folks want him to, or think he will. I do know the longer he goes without winning one…the harder it will probably be for him to actually win one. The pressure keeps building up as each grand slam passes that he doesn’t win.

Personally, I’m happy with the results from Wimbledon. It couldn’t have happened better for me. Roger’s my favorite (Men’s Champion); Serena’s my favorite (Women’s Champion); and my favorite double’s team of (Venus/Serena) won the doubles. Perfect Wimbledon for me!!!!!


Chris Ford Says:

It is wrong to say yes or no. (Just like it is wrong to say Federer, Djoker, or Nadal will win X Slams (save perhaps Rafa with his dominance at the French Open).
It is better to say that there good prospects for Andy Murray to win one. He is still improving..while Rafa and Nole are at peak and Fed is now still amazingly formidable but not the untouchable player he was 2005-2007.

And this year, there is one special opportunity for Murray that would be as big as winning a Slam. That being the Brit who won the Olympics in Britain.


jane Says:

Nalbandian made only one slam final so it’s different. And Roddick has a Federer match up issue, as is clear from their H2H. Murray is a much different case, imo. Firstly, look at his H2Hs versus the top three: only the Rafa H2H is lopsided.

Murray/Fed: 8-8
Murray/Nole: 5-8
Murray/Rafa: 5-13

One could compare Andy’s career thus far to Lendl or Agassi as much as Roddick or Nalbandian. Lendl lost 4 slam finals before winning one, and Agassi lost 3 slam finals before winning one. Both Lendl and Agassi, like Andy, were “expected” to win a slam long before they did and so faced pressure too, which they eventually overcame. With Roddick it was quite different. He burst onto the scene, like Hewitt, and won a slam early in his career, but then he could never back it up because he could never figure out a way to beat Fed; he wasn’t short on motivation. He just didn’t have the game to match up with Fed and could never find it – though he came incredibly close in the heart-breaking loss on 2009 at Wimbledon. Nalbandian, by contrast, never had the discipline and perhaps the motivation of Andy to go with his talent, which is too bad, as he actually matches up well against both Fed and Rafa.


Fot Says:

It also depends on Murray’s body. Looking at the final on Sunday, it was hard press to say which one of those players were ‘younger’! It was Murray who was having issues with his legs; it was Murray who was ‘huffing and puffing’ after shots. JMac even said “now who is the 30 year old out there?” So Murray has to take care of his body first. He has the talent, but talent along don’t really win slams. There are several talented players who are slamless. Things have to work out right in Murray’s favor and so far, they haven’t. But…who knows what might happen in the future.

I’m not a Murray fan, but if he wins a slam – more power to him.


RZ Says:

Sean, do you really think Lukas Kubot could take out Murray in a Wimbledon final? Or did you mean Lukas Rosol?


MMT Says:

“After all, the Big Three had it easier in their first final wins. Federer beat Mark Philippoussis to win his first Wimbledon. Nadal took down Mariano Puerta at the French and Djokovic outdueled JW Tsonga in Australia.”

I don’t think this is a valid argument – first of all Nadal and Djokovic both beat Federer in the semi-final of their maiden majors, so there’s no reason Murray can’t do it as well. Federer beat Phillipousis in the final, but that was the Pou’s second major final and his game (at the time) seemed tailor made for grass – after all he gutted out a tough one in the 4th round against then Australian Open champion Andre Agassi – nobody at the time knew it would be his last major, and by then he already had 8.

He did beat Roddick in the semi-final, which in retrospect seems obvious, but at the time Roddick was one of the biggest hitters on tour (right up there with Safin and the Pou), with certainly the biggest serve (again on par with Phillipousis), and considered to be a shoe-in to win Wimbledon eventually. Not convinced? Just watch the 2004 final and see how Roddick looked in that first set – it’s like a different player to anything we’ve seen since. And Roddick won the US Open and went on to reach 2 more Wimbledon finals and 2 US Open finals in his career (winning his first and only 3 months after losing to Federer at Wimbledon).

The bottom line is, nobody has it easy – it only looks easy in retrospect. At the time they all had mountains to climb. And take the example of Lendl – he lost, in succession to Borg, Connors, Wilander and Connors in his first 4 major finals (McEnroe in his 6th, although he had won the French that year already).

And who did he beat for his first and second major? None other than John McEnroe. It wasn’t until he was the established #1 that he got Michael Pernfors at the French open and Miroslav Mecir in the US Open final in 1986. So I don’t buy this argument at all.

I think any player who wants to win his first major has to have the game to beat the top players at a major, and while it’s easy to equate victories at smaller tournaments to having the game to win at a major, that is, in my opinion a big leap of faith. If that were the case, the universe of players who have won majors would be as diverse as those who have won smaller tournaments and it is not. Pressure does affect a player, but mostly it has a physical impact, causing a player’s existing technical problems to be laid bare, whereas it would otherwise go unnoticed when everyone is not equally motivated to play their best. That is what makes the major so important and such a good barometer of who truly has the best game in the game – and that is as it should be

I firmly believe that Murray’s problems are technical – I haven’t done enough analysis to identify what they are, but it strikes me as the easy way out to say it’s all in his head. Even if it is, he’d be better off adding to his game (which to his credit he seems to be doing) so that when he is under duress (in another final perhaps) he has a more solid technique and options to win that can be executed when the going gets tough.


trufan Says:

Only 9 players in history have reached all 4 slam finals (No, Sampras is not in that list). All of these 9 players won multiple slams.

No player has yet to reach all 4 slam finals, and lose all, without EVER winning a slam.

That’s what I call the “Murray Slam”. He just completed the 3rd leg – losing wimbledon. Just needs to reach the French final next year and get his backside whipped, and he will have that record.

Ya, he is 25. But remember, for most tennis players, 26 is the age when they practically fall off the cliff. All of them. So he doesn’t have that much time left.

I am pretty confident he will complete the Murray Slam next year.


jane Says:

Good point MMT. Nole has had to beat either Fed or Rafa – or both – for all of his 5 slams. As we know Fed and Rafa are two of the greatest to ever play the game so imo Nole hasn’t gotten very lucky at the slams. He has had to face Fed in the semis numerous times. And I am guessing but don’t think any player has ever had to compile as many wins or points as he had to in order to climb to number 1.


jane Says:

trufan – can you tell us who those 9 are please?


trufan Says:

As for federer, not even a discussion left about GOAT.

In addition to all the numbers – you have to recognize that NO TOP PLAYER has had to face a 5+slam winner, 5+ years younger, at THEIR prime, for so long.

When the younger crowd came along (primarily McEnroe), Borg wilted and went away.

Then McEnroe wilted (after 1984) with the onslaught of the younger crowd of Lendl, Becker, Edberg, Wilander.

Then 92 onwards, these guys wilted at the onslaught of the “younger” crowd of Sampras and Agassi.

Then Sampras quickly wilted when the next generation came along.

Federer is the only exception!! With Djokovic and Nadal at 25 and 26 years of age, Federer is still going strong at 31, reaching No 1 and winning wimbledon!!!!!! Nadal is an 11 slam winner, Djokovic is a 5 slam winner, both are likely to win at least a couple more slams, so to face this level of younger opposition and beat them, is just remarkable, and unique. Never happened before. Never will.

As for year end No. 1 – Fed has a good chance of retaining No. 1 for at least a couple of months, since he has very few points to defend till the USO. After that, he has points to defend, but its all indoors, in Europe – so I think he has as much chance as the other two to end up no. 1 again, and beat perhaps the only record Sampras has left.

Lets see.


MMT Says:

Djokovic (5)
Nadal (11)
Federer (17)
Agassi (8)
Courier (4)
Edberg (6)
Lendl (8)
Laver (10)
Budge (6)


jane Says:

I disagree with you about Murray, though, trufan; on what basis do you say this? I think he will break through and win slams and there are reasons for that. He is improving, as MMT already points out. His second serve stats from Wimbledon show that he has already worked to improve that one area in his game in which he was vulnerable before. He has also amped up his forehand, and presumably will continue to do so with Lendl tutoring him. He has natural touch at the net, a very effective slice, a wicked first serve, and a great backhand. Not to mention how speedy he can be and how prescient his anticipation is. Plus, he plays well on all surfaces. There is a reason he has been in the top four (as high as number 2) for the past 4 years. It is a matter of small margins at this point, and he is very motivated.


MMT Says:

Wait a minute – Rosewall did it too.


MMT Says:

He won 8 majors


jane Says:

Thanks MMT – nice list :)


dc Says:

The problem with Murray is that he doesn’t know how to finish the point, by hitting a winner of forcing an error.

He often returns the ball without a plan as to how to win the point.

With Fed, you can see a thought behind every shot. You kind of know what he is trying to do in order to win the point. Even when Fed doesn’t have a strategy for a point, he tries to hit pure winners.

With Murray – i rarely can figure out why he hit a shot and how is he planning to win the point.

Unless Murray starts using his Mind and play intelligently, its going to be difficult for him to win a GS.
He may win 1 or 2 with a fair bit of luck, but that’s about it.

Nothing wrong with his shots- he is capable of playing consistently high level of tennis for hours, but his game lacks intelligence.


trufan Says:

Jane,

its not possible to have any basis for predicting the future. Predictions are just predictions. So who knows!

However, given Murray’s age (25 is no spring chicken), the dominance of Federer, Djokovic and Nadal, and some dangerous players in the top 20 – it looks tough for him.

that’s why I suggest he complete his own slam! That one, as we all know, he is well capable of doing!!!!I think if he gets a bit lucky, he could make the french final some day.


trufan Says:

As to why its tough for Murray to win a slam – honestly, do you think Murray has a better / equal / worse chance than Fed of winning one out of the next 5 slams? I would rather bet on Fed than Murray. And we all know how difficult it is even for Fed now. It took him 30 months to win one, after his last one at the AO in 2010 (where he beat Murray, and Murray cried!).

Murray would likely have to beat two of the top 3 players to win a slam. He can’t do it. Federer did beat two of the top 4 at wimbledon….


jane Says:

I know we can’t predict, trufan. I was just wondering what your reason(s) were for thinking that he won’t win a slam (which is competition I take it) and that’s why I shared the reasons for why I think he will. We’ll see…


trufan Says:

For now, Fed is sitting pretty, with the No. 1 ranking and his 17th slam. Since last October, he’s gone an incredible 63-6, with 8 titles, including 1 slam, 3 masters, 1 YEC, beaten every top player repeatedly. Who says he doesn’t deserve the No. 1 ranking?

As for how long Fed will play – as long as he is in the top 4, he has a pretty good shot at slams, since he never has to face the other top 3 players before the semi. Given how he is playing, it doesn’t look likely that he will fall out of the top 4 anytime soon. Just about 6,000 points is enough to guarantee a top 4 ranking. He can do half of what he has done the last one year and still be ranked No 4.

I think he will continue to play till he drops out of the top 10, which may be after the Rio Olympics. He will now go for all the longevity records. And why quit now? This should be his most stress free period of playing tennis. And he can still kick some ass!

At the Rio Olympics, Fed would be 35, but Nadal would be 30. lets see who wins then.


skeezer Says:

@trufan

Can’t believe I am reading posts now and we have to say Fed is the #1 player in the world. It seems just a very short time ago he was #3 and posters saying he’ll contine to drop. Now it is Great times for a Fed fan. Really don’t care how long he holds the #1 title. Thing is he made it back to the top, and deservingly so! Soon he’ll be 31 and #1. Shaammmoooon!


trufan Says:

BTW, in the 63-6 match record – it includes titles on ALL surfaces… unlike Nadal who hasn’t won outside of clay for almost two years.

BTW, in Nadal’s best year, 2010, he had a 72-10 match record. All 10 losses outside of clay obviously.


trufan Says:

I agree Skeezer…

And in today’s physical game with SO MUCH competition, a player being No. 1 at age 31 is incredible. Agassi was no. 1 at age 33 briefly in 2003 – but that was the vaccuum between Sampras and Fed years, with Hewitt and Safin not consistent enough. Not like today, when we have two 5+ slam winners at THEIR peak, both 5-6 years younger.

This has never happened before.

And just for comparison, since Sampras is exactly 10 years older than Fed – after Wimbledon 2002, having lost to 145th ranked George Bastl at Wimbledon, Sampras had dropped to 14 or 15 in world ranking, not having won a single title in 2 years (not even an ATP 250 title).

Sampras winning USO 2002 was a fluke and due to a huge amount of luck (he never had to face the top players of that time in that US Open). Fed winning wimbledon in 2012 is completely different – he is at the top of the game, and beat the reigning world No. 1.

So any comparison to Sampras is totally off base.


Ray Says:

murray will win a slam if he keeps at it! most likely wimbledon/uso – 2013/14.

he just needs to keep working on that forehand and play more like fed/djokovic and not like rafa. rafa won 4slams on that pathetic surface called clay which helped him gain confidence on other surfaces.

unfortunately murray is neither here or there with his game. sometimes it helps to be one-dimensional like nadal. people like safin/gasquet/rios could never put their game together like federer did. people assume it is all easy when you have talent. but as uncle ben said in Spider man “with greater power comes greater responsibility” meaning more things to master if you are multi-dimensional. sampras/rafa had less to worry that way! sampras always played suicide tennis and rafa always plays boring-to-death defensive tennis. they were fortunate that the courts/playing conditions were real fast in 90s and real slow in the last decade.

those 2 are the worst among the goat list in terms of being “multi-dimensional” talents like borg/laver/connors/roseall/federer/gonzalez!

maybe LTA should ATP/ITF to mess around with the courts so that they would all play like hardcourts – which would help murray the most!

if you keep knocking the door long enough, it will break open. murray just needs to keep working hard – the results will follow.

if a clown with zero game and only serve like ivanisevic can win a slam, i am sure murray can!


Ray Says:

sampras is even worse off than nadal when it comes to adapting to different surfaces!

he will soon be out of top 5 GOAT candidates if rafa can win a few more french opens!


trufan Says:

Well said Ray!!

“sometimes it helps to be one-dimensional like nadal.”

“sampras/rafa had less to worry that way! sampras always played suicide tennis and rafa always plays boring-to-death defensive tennis. they were fortunate that the courts/playing conditions were real fast in 90s and real slow in the last decade.”

“those 2 are the worst among the goat list in terms of being “multi-dimensional” talents like borg/laver/connors/roseall/federer/gonzalez!”

Sampras being SO miserable on clay (24-13 at the French, just one semi), and Nadal being so miserable indoors (9-10 at the YEC, no title) and SO dependent on clay – it baffles me when people even consider these two in the GOAT debate.

Even Laver – it was mostly grass court tennis those days, single surface.

Lendl really produced great results under the toughest possible competition, IMHO. But the fact that he never could win Wimbledon is a blotch on his resume.

Agassi perhaps come close to being a complete player. But he too benefitted from lack of serious competition from 2000-03, when he won half his slams.

Nobody’s resume is even near as complete as Federer, especially now.


trufan Says:

that’s true Ray. For all his clay dependence – Nadal has done better on hard courts than Sampras ever did on clay!

But the lack of any YEC is a bit hole for nadal.

As for Federer:
– 17 slams,
– won all 4 slams,
– No. 1 ranking record,
– 6 YEC,
– 18 of 19 slam finals streak,
– at least 5 finals in all 4 slams

I think of ALL his records, these 6 pretty much define him, and make it nearly impossible for anyone to emulate.

The only record that Nadal might end up with is 8 or 9 french titles – so the maximum number of titles in one slam. I don’t see him getting any of the Federer records listed above, except all 4 slams which he already has.

Slams (plus finals), No. 1 ranking, and YEC – that’s what its all about. Nobody else is even close.


Ray Says:

“Slams (plus finals), No. 1 ranking, and YEC – that’s what its all about. Nobody else is even close.”

Agree! Federer a league above the rest.

Other GOAT candidates are 2-legged or 3-legged compared to Federer! LOL!


Goat Galz Says:

Fellow Fed Fans:

Our man did it again. He’s back in it and winning slams, at least for a little while longer. He had a little help looking at Murray on the other side of the net. I am positive it would have been much more difficult with Rafa there. Fed’s been looking to kick Andy’s arse for a long time now due to his trash-talking comments. Oh, and Andy, aiming for the goat’s head isn’t wise if you can’t finish him off. Happy that Rogi managed to get it done.

ta ta


trufan Says:

Nadal’s days of dominating Fed are also done.

First and foremost, Fed is not going to be going that deep into clay tournaments any more, so they are not going to meet on clay much.

On other surfaces, Fed has a winning record against Nadal already, and will continue to improve that, especially now that Nadal is also 26+ in age and not as fast as he used to be.

Lastly, I think Annacone has finally had the effect he wanted to have on Fed’s game – make it even more attacking, more net play, shorter points. Except on clay, he’s going to finish off nadal pretty quickly, especially in best of 3.

It will be very interesting to see how all the top 4 players shape up in the next few months. Will Fed maintain his momentum? Will Andy come back from another heartbreaker? Will Djokovic regain his winning ways again? Will Nadal be able to win ANYTHING outside of clay?

Lets see…..


Nina Says:

Maybe he should do it the Djokovic way… read this article, doesn’t say anything new but it’s worth reading nonetheless. It just explains how Novak fought himself and found the belief and strenght to beat Federer and Nadal to achieve a legendary year. It talks about his health rituals, his fitness, his doctor help… very inspiring.
http://espn.go.com/tennis/story/_/id/8132800/has-novak-djokovic-become-fittest-athlete-ever-espn-magazine


Ray Says:

let’s hope there is no contador kind of secret coming out of tennis!

itf’s drug-testing is a joke!


Brando Says:

‘Nadal’s days of dominating Fed are also done.’

BASED ON WHAT? Roger winning wimby? AS IF that has EVER STOPPED rafa before! LMAO- im sorry BUT THE FACTS ARE:

- All matches: Nadal, 18–10
- All finals: Nadal, 13–6
- Grand Slam matches: Nadal, 8–2
- Grand Slam finals: Nadal, 6–2
- ATP Masters Series/ATP World Tour Masters 1000 matches: Nadal, 9–4
- ATP Masters Series/ATP World Tour Masters 1000 finals: Nadal, 6–3
- Best of five set matches: Nadal, 10–3
- Five-set matches: Nadal, 3-2
- Best of three set matches: Nadal, 8–7

Results on each court surface:

- Clay courts: Nadal, 12–2
- Outdoor Hard Courts: Nadal, 5–2

- THE ONLY ASPECTS IN FED’S FAVOUR:

1- Grass courts: Federer, 2–1: Rafa WON their last meeting after losing a 5 SETTER the previous year- im sure rafa would FANCY his chances here IF they meet!

2- Indoor Hard Court: Federer 4–0

Besides which NOTHING!

I AM SORRY TO have to say and do this, BUT BAR indoor hard court rafa HAS AS GOOD A CHANCE IF NOT BETTER THAN FED for the win WHENEVER THEY MEET!

BOTTOMLINE IS, IF the 2 were to meet in a final ANYWHERE OUTDOOR which set of fans do you HONESTLY believe will be most worried about thier guy?

LOL, THIS IS BORING BUT IF rafa were to meet fed, ESPECIALLY at ANY GS SLAM, then ONLY the FOOLISH WILL ARGUE THAT HE’S THE ONE WITH THE BIG PROBLEMS!

IT IS WHAT IT IS: in the nadal- federer matchup rafa has ALWAYS had the upper hand!


SG1 Says:

I have no doubt Murray will squeeze out some majors somewhere. He’s considerably better than Roddick and Roddick reached 4 or 5 slam finals.

Murray has to hit the ball a little bigger and hit some nastier 2nd serves. For a guy with a 130MPH serve he’s just too damned passive. He has to work too hard out there.

Him and Lendl are almost perfect parallels. When Lendl got more fit and hit the ball harder, he began to win slams. If Andy does this, he’ll end up in the winner’s circle at some majors.

Del Po is (or maybe was) a guy who could hit through Fed and Rafa. Murray isn’t DelPo but if he can add some more pop to his game, he’ll have a good Murray 2.0.


Brando Says:

re: can murray win a slam? OF COURSE HE CAN.

Will he? NO ONE knows, BUT he’s got as good a chance as anyone OTHER than the BIG 3.

He NEEDS to build on what he did in set 1 and 2 in the final- TRY TO EXTEND THAT level for 5 sets.

IF he can somehow find the form he showed against novsk in AO SF and set 1 and 2 in wimby final- then in my mind he DEFINATELY will win one. probably more than one.


steve-o Says:

Goodness me, I have no idea.

I’ll say that Murray gave his best ever performance in a major final this time. But Federer in turn produced one of his best ever performances, which meant that Murray was going to lose.

Don’t think you can blame the pressure; the crowd helped him much more than it hindered him.

As I said before, Murray is an example of a player who made it very far purely on the basis of talent. He’s so good with his hands and has such great anticipation and variety that he’s sometimes a bit lazy.

Footwork and fundamentals, he neglected comparatively. He can baffle a lot of opponents with his weird mix of spins and crafty counterpunching. The very best of the best are another matter, though.

Clearly he is working on the art of point construction under Lendl, but 24 is a little late in the day to be starting on that. Still, he might be able to win several majors if he ever wins that first one.


jane Says:

Brando, one thing I’ve noticed is that Fed and Rafa have met a little bit less now that Nole has been making the clay finals for the last couple of years (exception RG 11).

2009-12, Fedal have met 10 times: 6 on hard, 4 on clay. Interestingly, they’ve split those meetings pretty evenly 6-4 for Rafa, 3-3 on hard, and 3-1 on clay.

Between 2005-08, Fedal met more often at 17 times, with 9 of those on clay.

2009-12, Rafole have met 19 times, 9 of those on clay. (10-9 Nole) and Fedole have met 13 times since 09 (7-6 Nole), and 4 times on clay (3-1 Nole).

So maybe with Nole becoming Rafa’s main rival on clay of late, it will change the dynamic of Fedal’s rivalry? It would be interesting to see them in the semis at the Olympics on grass or the semis at the USO on hard court.


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anthony Says:

while not the biggest andy murray fan he has reached multiple slam finals and lost to great opponents every time so it’s not like he is a head case that he’s being made out to be. It’s not like he had dinara safina mental breakdowns in those slam finals and his most recent slam final that would be wimbledon the last slam was one of his finest slam final performances. i think he’s doing fine.


Brando Says:

@Jane:

yes, that’s a true and valid point.

PERSONALLY, as a rafa fan i see NOLE as rafa’s main rival going forward- no direspect intended to fed or his fans.

would i prefer rafa to draw fed or nole at SF for olympics or USO?

TOUGH ONE- honestly speaking i think it’s BETTER for rafa to face nole in a SF than a final- less pressure, and should he win then MASSIVE CONFIDENCE BOOST.

on the other hand, out of the 2 rafa would DEFINATELY prefer to face fed in a big stakes match since of the matchup.

IMHO, i probably am in the MINORITY HERE, but as a rafa fan I MUCH RATHER rafa face nole in a SF than a final- and IF he were to meet him at that stage then as a fan i believe that IF he were to win then he would face an easier opponent going forward since he would have passed his toughest hurdle.

Strictly my opinion, and like i said i maybe in the minority with that thought.


Lisa Says:

Murray to win ‘Silver’ and Nadal for the ‘Gold’ at the Olympics….my bet…


Brando Says:

@Lisa:

MY DREAM SCENARIO- HOPE IT IS LIKE THAT! :-)


al Says:

French Open: Too much Rafa,
———–
That is funny. :-)


Daniel Says:

Brando,

If Fed plays Nadal on Cincy final, I will be pretty confortable on Fed winning. The problem is, I can’t even see Nadal reaching a Cincy final, beacuse of best of 3 in THE most fast surface on tour.

If they meet n the US Open final as well i fancy Fed’s chance 55-45. But it has to be this year, otherwuse Fed will be too old.


Robert Says:

Federer wins with talent, not effort.

Federer hates Nadal’s style (playing every point like match point) and would rather not play that style.

Federer’s “play 75% effort, turn it up for the big games” has contributed to his career longevity, and may be worth more in the long run than to chase every ball down, as Nadal does.


Robert Says:

I started off a Roddick fan and so was anti-Federer. I became a Federer fan, really, when he turned it on against Agassi at the US Open 2005. Wow, that was impressive.

I do not like Nadal’s game, but I respect it. One thing that bothers me, however, about Nadal is the unfair advantage of “serving lefty”. In baseball, there are right-handed batters, left-handed batters, right-handed pitchers, left-handed pitchers. Only a few hitters try switch-hitting.

Tennis, however, has no mechanism to counter the effects of handedness on building natural biases into the game.

Nadal matches up so well against Federer for a few reasons.

1. Lefty serve
2. Two-handed backhand
3. Ability to run down balls
4. Depth of topspin shots
5. Fighter mentality

On clay, there is more time to run the ball down. Since Nadal likes to run down shots, he can negate the offensive weaponry and even the chess-like mentality of playing an opponent out of position. As much as some may hate it, I like that Nadal brings consistency to clay. My only regret is that Nadal came along in the same era as Fed. It would have been nice to see a calendar-year Grand Slam. Federer has the skills and could have won it in 2006, but didn’t.

The rest of the season will see Federer and Djokovic battle for the #1 ranking. Nadal won’t have much chance to return to #1 until Wimbledon 2013, when he’ll have the chance to regain the massive points he lost when Rosol upset him in the second round.


trufan Says:

Brando,

ALL the stats you show for Nadal – are purely based on his clay results. Take out clay, and ALL are in favor of federer. That’s a fact.

Nadal’s dominance is purely a clay thing.

When was the last time he won ANY title outside of clay? Almost two years ago.


Kimberly Says:

Trufan, why should we take out clay. It is a decent chunk of the tour with three masters, a grand slam and countless other tournaments. It’s like should we take out indoors. Info however, believe the head to head might tilt on Rogers favor as I doubt they will meet much on clay from here on out. And I think Roger has a decent shot of ending the year number one. The Olympics and cincinatti are key IMO. Roger is the favorite for Cincy with the fast surface but did not do well there last year. USO if he defends his semifinal or reached the final would be enough if he gains the points from Cincy and the Olympics. As much as it pains me, unless rafa wins Toronto and the US open he’s toast. He has no chance on the indoor swing or cincinatti.


Brando Says:

‘ Take out clay, and ALL are in favor of federer. That’s a fact.’

‘Nadal’s dominance is purely a clay thing.’

LMFAO- WOW, impressive arguement!

So i have now made up the OUTDOOR Hardcourt h2h?

OK, let me now MAKE UP ANOTHER STORYthis one is on GRASS:

Once upon a time in 2006 rafael nadal played in his DEBUT slam final in wimby at AGED 20. His opponent, Roger federer was in his 4th final in a row as a 3 times winner, aged 24!

The great federer had NEVER ventured beyond the QTr final stage at age 20 himself- in fact he was more used to 1st round exits!

A GREAT ACHIEVEMENT by nadal, not only to get to the final BUT ALSO TAKE A SET, be in a TIE BREAK in another- where he was LEADING at one point!

NOT SHABBY for a 1st wimby final! He walked away with some measure of RESPECT! BUT the story gets EVEN better!

nadal would be BACK the next year, 2007- aged 21 now- and not only would he now TAKE 2 SETS of the great federer (6-4, 6-2) he would ONLY lose in the TIE BREAKS (9-7 in set 1, 7-3 in set 3), before going into the 5th set- where he had CHANCES to break himself!

The legendary federer would then say to Sue Barker (BBC presenter) ON COURT in front of 15,000 people and millions at home that ‘HE WAS VERY LUCKY TO WIN’!

Shame for rafa,wasn’t it? Oh well, i’ll COOK UP another fairytale for him.

This one is in 2008- and in this one he wins!

ACTUALLY hold on, i think these tales i am writing up ACTUALLY OCCURRED!

POOR RAFA!LOL!

12-2 on clay
5-2 on outdoor HC
1-2 on Grass with losses that are HARDLY one way traffic.

18- 6 IN OUTDOOR MATCHES!

AND YET, people dispute that in OUTDOOR matches rafa hasn’t proved ANYTHING!

SURE, whatever suits yourself- please tell yourself that and believe it. As the TRUTH points otherwise as to rafa and his outdoor record v federer!


Brando Says:

‘When was the last time he won ANY title outside of clay?’

POOR Rafa- HOW TRUE!

I mean he is 26 years old now- how can he even compare with the GOAT, when he is in such a predicament!

PRETTY AWFUL for a 26 year old! I mean what about fed when he was 26:

-12 GS TITLES won, to rafa’s pathetic 11 TITLES (inc. a career slam)!

- 138 GS matches won, to rafa’s 157 MATCHES WON- we all know rafa won 99% of those on clay!

- Fed’s awesome 53 titles on tour to rafa’s MEAGRE, EMBARASSING 50 TOUR TITLES!

- Fed had shown his MIGHT against the tour by winning 551 matches. rafa on the other hand HAS A WIMPS TOTAL OF 583 WINS! LAUGHABLE!

- Fed was no.1 for 204 weeks, rafa on the other hand a total of 102 WEEKS! WHAT A JOKE- more than wimps like AGASSI, HEWITT, EDBERG- 7 LESS than BORG! PFFT- as if that is something to write home about!

SO YES- you are right! i think rafa should PACK IT IN, as he is doing AWFUL for a 26 year old isn’t he?

i mean WHAT CHANCE has a BULL got infront of a GOAT, right?

let’s ask mats wilander………


Andrew Miller Says:

Murray’s Wimbledon final made me a believer, I think he can do it. I think he fixes his body language, gets in even better condition (he looked just a tad winded vs. Federer – no surprise, but still room for improvement), and he’s got it.

I even think he can beat Djokovic (who for some reason to me seems more vulnerable than a Nadal) and Federer, given that Del Potro did it once and Murray is better than Delpo (I like Delpo a lot, but Murray is better). So what if he can – it’s doing it.

I would also agree that Australia is the place to do it. Nadal plays well in Oz and Djokovic does also, but Murray’s one of the world’s best hardcourt players. Maybe US Open also.


Brando Says:

@Andrew Miller:

COMPLETELY AGREE- HE’LL WIN ONE FOR SURE.

his best surface, IMHO, is OUTDOOR HARDCOURTS, USO and AO are definately in range.

i think in the wimby final, he showed he has the GAME, BUT unfortunately the reality is there are 3 players better than him!

Roger, nole and rafa- are a DEADLY TRIO for andy for sure!


Michael Says:

I do not like Sean’s language here. Calling the top three as Gorillas. That is not in good taste.


Michael Says:

I think Murray has the game to win a Slam. But as Sean rightly said, he should not face the top three in either the semis or finals. That is a tall order. You need to beat atleast one in the worst scenario. This applies to Wimbledon and French. The best chance for Murray will come in the hard courts where he has the game to beat even the top three. But he would tremendously benefit if he is not facing Fedal or Novak in the finals.


Michael Says:

If Murray had made that passing shot. If he had hit that forehand winner blah blah. In the same manner, if Roger had made that drop shot. If he had hit an ace. If he had broken Murray when he had those break points in the first set. Ifs and bufs if they become real, salt can become sugar.


Margot Says:

For the tiny number of Andy fans on here:
http://the-slice.com/2012/07/murray-on-bbcs-mock-the-week/


jane Says:

Love that video margot – so sweet when Andy gets the ovation, and good jokes too. :) Looks like he and Kim are enjoying themselves.


Sienna Says:

Branda
Just keep metioning the flauwed h2h between Roger and Rafa.

Roger is already turning their h2hand you are still using it for your sole claim to comming sligthly closer to Fed.
On fast surfaces Rafa is 3-7 in h2h against Roger and then we can count Madrid as a fast surface.otherwise it is 1-6.

So them meeting more on slow courts has really helped Nadal in establishing the current h2h.

With Rafa’s decline it is more them likely that Roger will pick away on Rafa’s lead the next year or two. If rafa’s decline is not so much that he cannot meet Roger in semies or in finals now that Roger is again the #1 in the world.


Sienna Says:

Branda
So 1-6with the only victory Nadal has over Fed on a fast surface comming in th eyear Fed was hampered by the mono. It is impossible for Nadal to beat Fed in US Open.


metan Says:

Awesome post brando,


Lisa Says:

@Brando….Nice post on Rafa…:)

I think people give him less credit because at 26, he has 11 slam!( People forget that!)

Federer at 26 had 12!?? Wow! We have to seriously rethink the GOAT issue here…IMO…


Lesco Says:

You wouldn’t believe the article was about Murray if you read the comments first hey?

Murray has the game to trouble Novak and Rafa. The reason he hasn’t done so thus is because of his mental fragility. Federer’s game and the pace he plays it at is a problem for Andy.

Murray beats Rafa/Novak at a Wimby/USO final, provided he has found a way through Federer in a semi final or if Federer loses early.


Lisa Says:

Look….what Federer has achieved is beyond believable!

Federer is certainly one of the most impressive people to have lived!

Federer has nothing to prove anymore….Federer playing now and onwards is because of “His Love For The Game”….Nothing more….

Heck he could retires this year and make $50-70 millon annually for the rest of his Life….


Lesco Says:

@Lisa but 7 of those slams are French Opens.. People do give Rafa his due: he is the greatest of all time….on clay.


Everyone is entitled to my opinion Says:

Brando Says:

‘Nadal’s days of dominating Fed are also done.’

BASED ON WHAT? Roger winning wimby? AS IF that has EVER STOPPED rafa before! LMAO- im sorry BUT THE FACTS ARE:……………

Well said.


Lisa Says:

@Lesco

No doubt….Federer is GOAT….but give a few more years for Rafa…

Rafa may have (17+) slams in his pocket before 30 years of age….

Tennis is a very unpridictable game….you just never know…:)


Lisa Says:

@Lesco

No doubt….Federer is GOAT….but give a few more years for Rafa…

Rafa may have (17+) slams in his pocket before 30 years of age….

Tennis is a very unpredictable game….you just never know…:)


tfouto Says:

Lisa

I think that GS is the only record that Nadal might surpass Federer apart from FO titles…

Its totally possible for Nadal ending with more GS then Federer…


Lisa Says:

@tfouto

agree…:)


Michael Says:

tfouto/Lisa,

Who knows how much more majors Roger will win ?? I am pretty sure that it is not going to stop at 17 seeing the way he was playing at Wimbledon. He will be the defending champion at next year’s Wimbledon and surely I give him another chance for his 8th Wimbledon title. That said, I am not pretty sure about other majors


trufan Says:

Brando/Lisa,

Do try getting out of Nadal’s ass – it might be that he is picking his butt so often because you guys are in there irritating it!

Now as the next generation starts to build itself up (21/22 year olds), Nadal will get his butt kicked more often by a young player on fire. Even djokovic, just 1 year younger at 25, was enough to kick his butt out into space last year.

Age doesn’t stop for anyone. Nadal made hay from 2008 onwards (when he was 22), beating down on a 5 year older opponent (Federer was 27 in 2008), until a younger opponent kicked his last year. Now its only downhill for Nadal.

As for Fed, at this time, he had 12 slams. So he has won 5 slams since turning 26 – an incredible achievement in itself – I don’t think anyone has won 5 slams past their 26th birthday.

Everyone agrees that Nadal’s longevity is likely to be much less than federer, given the toll his game takes on his body. So imagining that Nadal will win more slams past 26 than Federer is pure imagination, that’s all it is. He will probably win 1 or 2 more French titles, max. On other surfaces, his days were over in 2010 – wasn’t that the last time he even won a 250 title outside of clay?????????????/


tfouto Says:

trufan? Who do you think that next generation will be on top? I am not seeing anyone… Raonic i dont think so… Del Potro who knows…


Ben Pronin Says:

How is Nadal on the decline?


tfouto Says:

@Ben Prodin

This blog is full of non-sense…


Sienna Says:

To even question a thing that Nadal is not in decline outside clay is absurd. Of course he is. very much so.


Angel Says:

There is no way Nadal wins more slams than Fed, you can see right now how he is not winning as consistently as he was before. He always was the first to achieve more slams than Federer at a sooner age until last year and that’s mainly because he is not talented enough to win multiple slams for several years as Federer did. Nadal’s best chances are to win a couple French Opens more and maybe one more Wimbledon. That’s about it, guess where he is right now, well I’ll tell you if you don’t know, he is receiving treatment for his tendinitis on his knees right now in Madrid so it doesn’t look too good for him. In a couple of years he won’t win anything big again that’s for sure and when he turns 30 he’ll need a wheelchair to move.


trufan Says:

Ben,

You can look at virtually any statistic (slams won, matches won, titles, clay record, non clay record, record against top 10, ranking, etc. etc.) – they ALL show that Nadal’s record in 2010 was superior to all prior years for him, and his record in 2011, and now in 2012, is below that in 2010.

Isn’t that the very definition of decline?

Some players peak early – look at Becker, 1989 was clearly his best year. He was 22. So Nadal, with all the miles on his body and the relatively younger start (won his first slam before he turned 20), peaking at 24 years of age is pretty understandable.

federer was one of the late “peakers”. Everyone would agree 2006 was his best year – and he was 25. Most male tennis players have peaked before age 25.

And can you tell me a SINGLE tennis player who peaked AFTER age 25?

So what comes after peak? Decline, naturally.

That’s where Nadal is.

If he isn’t, why can’t he win even a 250 event outside of clay? Since Tokyo 2010, he must have played nearly 25 non clay tournaments, for zero wins. Yup, that’s what happens in decline – you win less and less on your less favored environments.


Brando Says:

‘and when he turns 30 he’ll need a wheelchair to move.’

fed is SO LUCKY to have such classy fans!

STAY CLASSY!


jamie Says:

2010
Shanghai
ATP World Tour Finals

2011
Doha
Australian Open
Indian Wells
Miami
Queen’s
Wimbledon
Cincinnati
USO
Tokyo
Shanghai
ATP World Tour Finals

2012
Doha
Australian Open
Indian Wells
Miami
Halle
Wimbledon

===========================

Since winning Tokyo in 2010, Nadal has played at 19 tournaments off clay. ZERO wins. He’s on a 19 tournaments losing streak. Ouch.


jamie Says:

Montreal 2011 as well.

20 tournaments losing streak.


trufan Says:

Thanks Jamie.

Yeah, 20 tournaments and counting. Nadal has lost the last 20 tournaments he has played off of clay. To ALL sorts of players. This includes grass, outdoor hard, indoor hard – everything.

That’s quite a GOAT candidate I would say, since this is supposed to be his “peak” period. Or are we all in agreement now, that he is in decline?

THe lawns at wimbledon will be lush green again in 3 weeks – not good news for Nadal. And if his knees are REALLY under treatment and he didn’t play for several weeks – he’s got to be rusty, since he lost early at Halle too.


Wheeler Says:

LOL no Murray is WEAK and will never win a Slam. He’s the tennis player who cried wolf about winning a slam but could never deliver.


metan Says:

@ jamie,
At least rafa try and never give up
, people always success if they never give up,


trufan Says:

That’s true – nobody tries as hard as Rafa. He may be short on talent (compared to Federer, Djokovic, etc.), but he beats everyone on will power, hard work, and desire. The guy plays every point like his life depended on it!


metan Says:

@trufan,

rafa is human not deity like roger.


tfouto Says:

those discussions are so childish, sorry everybody.

my idol is better then yours, no mine is better.

Nadal is not declining. He will more non-clay GS, sooner than everybody here thinks.

Federer was from 2008 not going to win more GS, and he proved everybody wrong and wrong. Nadal will prove everybody that he’s far from finish.

He might not be at his prime success, but he far from declining yet…


trufan Says:

Federer has been in decline since his peak of 2006. Just that his decline was slower than anyone else’s, and he has had flashes of brilliance in between that has helped him win several slams since then.

Nadal is also in a similar decline. He did win the french title last year and this year, but the decline is clear. He could certainly win one or two more non clay slams, though the chances are remote. And given the condition of his body and his style of game, his decline is likely to be steeper.

And nobody is a deity. Though Nadal certaily plays like a beast!


Dan Martin Says:

I agree with Sean, Murray is better than a lot of players who have won slams. Fed and Nadal are in the top 3of Open Era players and Nole is probably on the cusp of being a top 10 Open Era player as well. That does not leave Murray a ton of room, but I think he’ll punch through Down Under either in 2013 or 2014. Just a hunch, but I think if Rafa’s knees and age make Fedal a little less daunting on hard courts in the coming years (a big IF) then Murray is maybe only needing to slay one dragon. I think Lendl had him close in Oz and at SW19 this year. Maybe a medal even if not a gold will help Murray feel like he has done something permanent in the sport and take some pressure off of him going forward.


Dan Martin Says:

That should read Rafa’s knees and Fed’s age* BTW here is a review of Tennis Channel’s documentary on Rod Laver – http://tennisabides.com/2012/07/13/review-of-signature-series-rod-laver-by-the-tennis-channel/


jane Says:

“Murray has the game to trouble Novak and Rafa. The reason he hasn’t done so thus is because of his mental fragility. Federer’s game and the pace he plays it at is a problem for Andy.”

But the H2Hs suggest otherwise; against the other top 3 Murray’s had the best record vs Fed and worst against Rafa.

Murray/Fed: 8-8
Murray/Nole: 5-8
Murray/Rafa: 5-13


SG1 Says:

I don’t think Rafa has to win more slams than Roger to be considered the GOAT. Rafa has to have a comparable number of slams (within 1 or 2 or Roger) and he has to end up with a winning record against Fed, Rafa and Murray. Having won all the slams and having a winning record against all his contemporaries would, in my mind at least, put Rafa up there in the GOAT department. His game may not be as pretty as Roger’s to watch, but it’s damned effective.


SG1 Says:

I don’t believe that Rafa is in decline quite yet. Novak has really stepped it up the last 15 months. Novak is a tough match up for Nadal. If Nadal can duel it our for almost 6 hours as he did at the AO final, I don’t see how this can be defined as decline. Tennis, like boxing, is all about match-ups. Nadal matches up well against Fed, not as well against Novak.

I don’t expect anyone to outright dominate the majors for the next little while. Particularly with Fed back in the mix.


Brando Says:

‘But the H2Hs suggest otherwise; against the other top 3 Murray’s had the best record vs Fed and worst against Rafa.’

AGREE, i don’t know WHY people feel andy has his best SHOT against rafa when the h2h suggest otherwise:

OVERALL: 13-5 to rafa
NON- CLAY OVERALL: 9- 5 to rafa

CLAY: 4-0 to rafa
GRASS: 3-0 to rafa
INDOOR: 2-1 to rafa
OUTDOOR HC: 4-4 (1 murray win inc. a rafa RETIREMENT)

So NOWHERE does andy lead on ANY SURFACE against rafa!

the ONLY surface where he is level, OUTDOOR HC, he is 5-5 against fed and ONLY 5-6 against NOLE!

So it’s NOT LIKE rafa is the obvious gimme for him on outdoor HC now is he?

LOL- another MYTH that seems to be cooked up by some and believed to be true!

IMHO, it’s OBVIOUS that they are ALL EQUALLY tough for andy to face and he has had his MOST SUCCESS against FED!


trufan Says:

SG1

Rafa also needs to win at least couple YEC, and hold the number 1 ranking for at least something close to Fed, to be even in contention.

That’s unlikely.

Even if he wins a couple more French titles, he still needs 4 more to reach 17. Tough task after age 26!!

And the H2H are misleading – Nadal’s H2H against Fed, Djoke, AND Murray are all skewed due to repeated clay meetings. If Sampras had been playing in this era, Nadal wouldn’t have had a winning record against him, since they would have hardly met on clay, because Sampras would have rarely made a clay final or even a semi!


trufan Says:

Murray is hitting his peak now – he played Nole pretty tough at the AO, and gave fed a fight at Wimbledon.

Given that he is younger than Nadal, is at least equally fit, and is now attacking more, the next time they play on hard courts, its Murray’s match to lose.

Oh boy, it was fun watching the 5th set of the Rosol match!


Mark Says:

http://0.tqn.com/d/tennis/1/0/_/J/06_roger_federer_australian_open_2009.jpg. @ trufan. At least Rafa is not a cry baby when he loses.


MMT Says:

Hold on a second – Lew Hoad also reached all for major finals, and that makes 11. Sorry, trufan was that list referring to the Open era only?


tfouto Says:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATP_World_Tour_records

All four finals in the same year. Federer is the only player that managed to do that. Not only once, but three times.

I wonder why people never talk about this record… It’s one of the most impressive imo.

Nadal is one the best to break other records and making others player dont manage to winning four slams on a row. (28 games on a row on GS).

Federer has 3 times 27 games in a row, and Djokovic has one time 27 in a row. Nadal is like a wall on FO.


Brando Says:

‘And the H2H are misleading – Nadal’s H2H against Fed, Djoke, AND Murray are all skewed due to repeated clay meetings.’

ERM, OKAY. Let’s have a look at this notion:

1- Murray:

NON- CLAY H2h v rafa: 5-9 to RAFA! WHAT- has rafa won against murray MORE THAN FED or NOLE on NON- CLAY SURFACES? those results must be doctored as it is IMPOSSIBLE for it to be true!

2- Federer:

NON- CLAY h2h v rafa: 8- 6 to FEDERER!

WOW- CLEARLY rafa is getting thumped here.

I mean he was 2-0 up in MIAMI FINAL 2005, which under the present system he would have won in straights sets. Fed EVEN SAID rafa should have won there.

A 5 set losss to fed in WIMBY 2007 FINAL, where fed says ON COURT he was lucky to win!

INTERESTING- CLEARLY rafa has NO CHANCE against fed off clay- ESPECIALLY in non- clay GS meetings where he is a poor man’s 3-2 v fed, POOR RAFA!

He’s 5-2 AHEAD IN OUTDOOR HARDCOURT matches, BUT just like clay, we know they don’t count either!

3- Djokovic:

NON- CLAY h2h v rafa: 7- 12 to nole.

POOR RAFA- prior to novak’s amazing run 13 months run he was a PATHETIC 7-7 with nole on this front!

This silly sally EVEN had a CHANCE to win in Miami 2011, and AO 12 on NOLE’S BEST SLAM and MS- he could have made it 9-10 had he done so!

BUT EVEN then, we all KNOW a 9-10 is a ONE WAY STREET h2h!

In summary, i FEEL SORRY for my guy!

He leads murray 9-5 on non clay surfaces, which is JUST RUBBISH EVEN though he’s won more than fed OR nole in that REGARD!

He’s a SOUL DESTROYING 2 WINS behind roger on non- clay surfaces- poor guy, HE’LL NEVER TURN that around!

And finally he’s 5 BEHIND nole, EVEN though he LEADS on grass, is TIED on indoors, and BEAT him in olympics 2008, USO 2010 final and was A GAME AWAY from beating him at his BEST OUTDOOR HC masters ( Miami) and 2 GAMES AWAY from winning at AO 12 (nole’s BEST SLAM)!

Your RIGHT, CLAY ISN’T A REAL TENNIS SURFACE, and outside that rafa has NO CHANCE AGAINST THESE GUYS!

I mean he was 7-7 agnist his toughest opponent, NOVAK, LESS THAN 18 MONTHS AGO- NO HOPE FOR THIS GUY AT ALL!


skeezer Says:

“SG1 Says:
I don’t think Rafa has to win more slams than Roger to be considered the GOAT. Rafa has to have a comparable number of slams (within 1 or 2 or Roger) and he has to end up with a winning record against Fed, Rafa and Murray. Having won all the slams and having a winning record against all his contemporaries would, in my mind at least, put Rafa up there in the GOAT department. ”

Really? Well I for one am happy its in your mind, and not Feds tennis professional peers who crown him otherwise.

———-

Notice who always says Fed is a diety? Not a Fed fan, comes from the anti Feds. Diety? LMAO. Fed is farrrrrr from perfect. C’mon, he is just a human being like everyone else. He is just the best at what he does….


Sienna Says:

WOW- CLEARLY rafa is getting thumped here.

I mean he was 2-0 up in MIAMI FINAL 2005, which under the present system he would have won in straights sets. Fed EVEN SAID rafa should have won there.

A 5 set losss to fed in WIMBY 2007 FINAL, where fed says ON COURT he was lucky to win!

WOW WHAT AVE YOU DONE FOR ME LATELY TALKING ABOUT 2007, 2005.

When did Rafa beat Fe on a fast HC or grass I am asking?

Rafa is in decline he was blown away in the 5th by #100. WHne does Rafa lose a 5th set? This year he is in decline there is no otherway about it.


jane Says:

Brando, lol. :)

When do the Olympics start – or … oh wait – is there actually tennis being played right now?!

Yes! In fact, there is.


Brando Says:

‘When did Rafa beat Fe on a fast HC or grass I am asking?’

rafa has NEVER BEATEN FE ON ANY COURT, BUT HE HAS BEAT FEDERER ON VARIOUS TENNIS COURTS!

GREEN CLAY: WIMBY FINAL 2008 (some call it FOOLISHLY A grass court)

SLIPPERY CLAY: DUBAI FINAL 2006 (again, some fools, call this a QUICK HC surface).

And YES he is in decline, EVEN THOUGH he won a GS SLAM LESS THAN 2 MONTHS AGO!

As a fan of his, I LOVE HIS DECLINING WAYS!:-))))))))))


Mark Says:

@squeeeeeezer. “C’mon he is just a human being like everyone else”. Absolutely! So tell your fellow fed fans to stop regarding him as some sort of god!


Brando Says:

@Jane:

Yes, there is the mercedes cup and newport going on at the moment- some good players too!

P.S: On a side note, my FINAL point about rafa and his DECLINE is that it’s my BELIEF, somewhat crazy belief admittedly, that it’s mainly due to the phenomenal performances he was FACED with when meeting your guy, NOLE, in finals.

I DON’T CARE, who the GOAT, MULE, CAMEL of all time is in tennis at the moment- BUT the ONLY guy i have ever seen to REALLY WORRY and TROUBLE my guy on a big stage, consistently, almost rendering him hopeless, is your FAV, the awesome: NOVAK DJOKOVIC!


Humble Rafa Says:

The Arrogant One wins 17 slams to become GOAT. I have a winning record against him. Can I claim to be the GOATest or at a minimum, GOAT “owner”?


jane Says:

Yeah Nole was kinda awesome last year Brando, ^_^. Less so this year, but that’s okay. They all have their ups and downs. Did you see that “Mock the Week” video of Andy? He looks relaxed and happy, which to me is a very good sign after that loss. I think he is going to bounce back well from this one and take away all of the positives.


Brando Says:

@Humble Rafa:

‘ or at a minimum, GOAT “owner”?’

LMAO!

in the real world, USUALLY ONLY farmers own goats- so i would say NO.

HOWEVER, put a GOAT INFRONT OF A BULL… well we ALL KNOW how that one turns out, don’t we? :-)


Brando Says:

@Jane:

‘I think he is going to bounce back well from this one and take away all of the positives.’

COMPLETELY AGREE- i can see him walking away with EITHER one of the olympics or USO.

BOTH THOSE events are TOO CLOSE to call imho.

AMAZING TIME for us tennis fans!:-)


andrea Says:

amazing how consistent fed has been, week in, week out over the years on tour. no one comes close.


Ray Says:

LOL! rafa’s fans are as disgusting as rafa’s game.

I hope nole wins some more slams and pushes this clown to 3rd in this generation! nole is a better player than rafa outside clay. shot for shot, nole has a better game than rafa! if nole really wants to he can overtake nadal in a lot of statistics.

how badly does nole want these titles?

did you guys read the blog about steroids in tennis? guess who is the most talked about player in that blog? LOL! even rafa fans who are the dumbest of tennis fans, must be able to answer that one!


alison Says:

Brando some great posts there,all of them,ever the voice of reasoning,to be honest its all us Rafa fans have heard for days,Rafas in decline blah,blah,i dont care anymore if thats what the haters want to believe let them,in fact let them say it till their typing fingers bleed and fall off,it doesnt change anything,thank goodness for sensible fans who are willing to be more objective than that,ive never been worried about Rafas loss,and hes had plenty of rest so should be fresh for the olympics,despite Andys loss i feel hes in a great place too,and i think he could also spring a surprise at the olympics.


alison Says:

Do we actually have any moderation anymore on this forum,to critisize his game is one thing,but to accuse him now of taking drugs,is really below the belt,this used to be a pleasant forum with people talking tennis,just lately its gone right down hill.


skeezer Says:

@HR lol ok ok u are the minimum GOAT.


skeezer Says:

“Will Andy Murray Ever Win A Grand Slam?”

YES! And it will be in this generation of players. You heard it here first!


Brando Says:

@Alison:

thanks for the generous comments :-)

And YES i do have to AGREE re the ‘steroids comment’.

It is ‘below the belt’, BUT can anyone honestly expect otherwise from those with NOTHING but petty natured hatred in their heart for someone who has committed the CARDINAL SIN of beating their fav?

I THINK NOT.


alison Says:

Andy has a lot of talent,and i believe hes getting closer,i think alot of its between the ears,and he needs a little bit of luck,at the AO at the begining of the year,he was very close againgst Nole,who was there for the taking IMO,just that missing piece of the jigsaw,but i believe its a matter of time before he makes that break through.


alison Says:

Brando yeah completely agree,they are not even worth bothering with.


Ray Says:

LOL! so rafa fans crying mommy? it is the 10000lb elephant in the room.

If ATP/ITF did drug testing with any amount of seriousness we would know the real truths!


Daniel Says:

Brando,

To the statement that Novak is the one and only to have give REAL trouble to Nadal as you putted some food for though:

- Djokovi never bageled Nadal. He had that 8-0 game strecth in 2012 French Open final, which is one of the biggest achievements in recent tennis:) The best victory he ever had he conceeded 5 games in Paris Master. Usually the matches are always competitive.

- Federer destroyed Nadal on some ocasions (WTF 2011, Hamburg 2007 and IW 2012 and also won 6-0 set in Wimby 2006) making him look ordinary, winning matches in 1 h on 2 ocasions. The same thing happened the other way, Nadal destroyed Fed in RG 2008 and Miami 2011).

My point is, Djokovic only once did to Nadal what Fed was capable of doing more times even with more loses.


Sienna Says:

Great post Ray.

If Rafa was a cyclist I bet he would have been demasqued long a go.
The cheater would have been stripped of alla clay titles .


Brando Says:

@Daniel:

NO OFFENCE but as a rafa fan I’d say when rafa faces nole i feel way more tense about my favs chance than when he faces federer.

And like i said in the post nole has CONSISTENTLY done well against rafa (7-0) on big stages and made my guy feel HOPELESS.

With Fed, BAR INDOOR COURTS, i have NEVER really felt worried about my guy at all. Sure he lost the 1st set 6-0 to fed in his debut wimby match, BUT what happened next?

Het took a set, took another to the TB where he had a chance to win- ALL in his debut wimby final at age 20! NOT BAD for a debut final- in fact i was really PLEASED with my fav’s showing there!

ONLY on INDOOR courts do i feel my fav is staring up against it- ALL OTHER courts? i feel COMFORTABLE about his chances.

Sure he can lose to fed on grass, outdoor HC and even clay- BUT it’s NEVER been something to get nervous about since rafa is ALWAYS in with a chance.

As federer HIMSELF said post this years SF at AO, rafa’s PERFORMANCES SEEM TO RISE when he faces fed.

fed fans should take that as COMPLIMENT.


Kimberly Says:

Brando-I don’t know if his performance rises as much as his game is a bad match up for Federer’s on slower courts and especially on clay. Piece of advice, just ignore half of these comments. Not worth it. You are talking about Haters just because Nadal dare challenge their god.


Brando Says:

@Kimberly:

‘You are talking about Haters just because Nadal dare challenge their god.’

pretty much is the TRUTH of the matter. Rafa decided NOT to bow down to fed and go for the win. He showed fed wasn’t as invincible as people made him out do to be.

THAT meant he was going to be endlessly hated by some.

Oh well, a small price to pay in comparison to the success that came his way. VAMOS!:-)


andrea Says:

SOME people on this BLOG have way too MUCH time on their HANDS. simmer down with the rhetoric and idolatry.


Andrew Miller Says:

Beating a combination of Federer/Djokovic/Nadal in semis and final on way to a slam title is extraordinarily hard. Only 1 player did it: Del Potro.

Basically, I think Murray needs the same setup this year, but with a different finalist – meaning he needs to play only 1 of the top 3, and only in the semifinals, on the way to a slam title and needs to meet a non top-3 player in the finals.

Blasting through two top three players on the way to a slam title is almost impossible (again, save Del Potro).

All that said – and I know we have heard this forever – durability is an issue for the triumverate. Federer may be on top of the world now, but I can’t see him there even through the US Open (not for me to write his future – he could prove everyone wrong again and win it!).

Nadal can be an outstanding hardcourt player when he’s grooved (hitting the best ball possible) but Nadal’s showed signs of strain this year. He was gracious at Wimbledon and charitable, but he’s been a bit of a brat for a lot of 2012, and that’s calling on traits that we don’t normally attribute to Nadal and don’t necessarily help him.

And Djokovic is losing this year (compared to last year).

All things considered, Murray is well placed for a slam win. He loves the US Open.

The big question mark though is the Olympics. I don’t know what kind of wrench it will throw in the plans of the top 3 players . All Murray needs is for one of them to become “somewhat less himself” on the day they play in a semifinal and to play someone else like Tsonga or Berdych in the final. And the Olympics might (asterisk) be harder on Nadal, Federer etc than on Murray (just their being a tad bit older).

Who knows.


jane Says:

“Beating a combination of Federer/Djokovic/Nadal in semis and final on way to a slam title is extraordinarily hard. Only 1 player did it: Del Potro.”

Well, that’s not quite true. Nole beat Fed and then Rafa to win the USO just last year. Also, Rafa beat Nole and then Fed to win the FO in 2007 and 2008.


Ben Pronin Says:

Nadal might be heading towards his decline, but then so is Djokovic and Federer and, hell, maybe even del Potro. But he’s not necessarily declining in overall. He’s still winning slams, Masters titles, and basically everything he’s always done to be the great player that he is.

But I don’t agree Nadal can overtake the GOAThood from Federer just by getting within 1 or 2 slams. It depends on where those slams are. If he wins a ton more French Opens, then it’s a moot point. He wasn’t number 1 for even close to as long as Federer, and he doesn’t have the overall consistent results in just about every category that Federer does. Nadal is already the clay GOAT, but that doesn’t mean he’s the overall GOAT.


SG1 Says:

I think Rafa’s results to this point have been reaonably consistent on all surfaces. While I agree that Federer has been the benchmark for tennis consistency, I don’t think it would be fair to necassarily hold this against Nadal. Rafa’s game is perfectly suited to clay. This being said, he’s made his game portable enough to win on grass and hardcourts. Weeks at number 1 is an interesting statistic that in my mind, is overhyped. I think we’d all agree that Serena Williams is the best womens player on the planet, irrespective of her ranking. When Rios was number 1 back in the late 90′s, I don’t think anyone really considered him the best in the world.

Rafa has beaten Roger on pretty much every surface and on almost every big occasion. And, when Rafa came into the picture, Fed was pretty much right in his prime. So, Rafa has been Roger at his very best when Rafa had yet to reach his prime. This has to matter. Rafa beat Roger at his own game. He stayed back and out rallied him, even if it was on clay.

Rafa is the best competitor the game has ever known. Roger’s competition early in his dominant period has fluffed up his numbers a little.


Ben Pronin Says:

But here we are with stern competition, Murray, Djokovic, and Nadal in their primes, and an old Federer is Wimbledon champ AND number 1.

Mentioning Rios in regards to weeks at number 1 is hugely unfair to every great number 1. Weeks at number may be a little irrelevant, but years ending number 1 is very important. As of now, Nadal hasn’t been able to do it more than twice, whereas Federer has a reasonable shot to do it for a 6th time. The rankings exist for a reason, even if Serena decided to make a mockery of them.

Are you trying to compare Serena to Nadal? Nadal plays week in, week out. Only ever taking time off for injuries and even then, he’s never gone for long. If we need to look for a staple of consistency besides Federer, Nadal is certainly the next best bet. But he’s failed to be number 1 more often than not when compared to Federer, or even Sampras. That says that he isn’t/wasn’t winning as much as the guy above him. Federer at number 1 isn’t Woznkiacki at number 1. This is only the second time ever, I believe, where Federer is number 1 with only 1 slam to his name.

And again, Nadal beating Federer doesn’t mean he’s overall better. Tennis isn’t about beating one guy, it’s about beating everyone. And Federer has done that better than anyone ever has.


El Flaco Says:

Andrew Miller Says:
Basically, I think Murray needs the same setup this year, but with a different finalist – meaning he needs to play only 1 of the top 3, and only in the semifinals, on the way to a slam title and needs to meet a non top-3 player in the finals.
—————————————–

If Murray gets a draw like Nadal at the 2010 USO where he only has to beat one high ranked player(Djoko) that would certainly increase his chances.


Steve 27 Says:

Ray, What a pathetic claim!. If you have proof show us. You don’t make yourself seem anymore smart, tough, or cool by saying that but get another angry child to argue with you. That only makes you a child as well. THINK more before you said typical nonsense.


JimboJones Says:

The only exercise some posters on tennis-x get is stretching the truth and jumping to conclusions.


The Great Davy Says:

Jimbo Jam is right. I have new exercise for you. Stretch truth. Jumping conclusions. But most important, Jog your memory to the 2009 when I prove I am better than ALL your idols!

And leap your faith against me on betting site you will be a very happy with results!


laslo Says:

Andrew Miller Says:
Basically, I think Murray needs the same setup this year, but with a different finalist – meaning he needs to play only 1 of the top 3, and only in the semifinals, on the way to a slam title and needs to meet a non top-3 player in the finals.
___________________
Why does your guy need to have all of these conditions and help to win? Isn’t he good enough to beat two of them? If not, why not? What’s wrong with him?


Lisa Says:

Federer may have won Wimbledon….However he isn’t a gareenteed opponent for the rest of this season;

Here are my predictions for the remaining half of the season….

1) 2012 Olympics: Nadal

I think Rafa is more motivated to play on this very surface again and step up after that dissapointing loss to Rosal…..I think people Forgot that Rafa could have won, it was that close a match par the 5th set….

The 2012 Olympics is like ‘Life has just suddenly thrown Rafa an early second chance in Wimbledon again’.

He will want to do well this time….

You like to think his going to make sure they’ll be no more ‘Rosol Effect’ again….

He his also the ‘Defending Olympic Champion’….How much more motivation and drive for a person of his calibre can get?

2) 2012 US OPEN- Djokovic

I think compared to other Major Slams this year(2012), in particularly….I just think Nole will not only bring his Mojo….but would bring his ‘Very Best Tennis’

He his the defending champion….that will also help him a bit….

3) London, WTF – Federer

I think Federer’s record at WTF events is just incredible….

Roger is undoubtably the ‘World’s Best Indoor Player’….Enough said there….

All in all said….Tennis is very unpredictable these days….The (Top 4) players will mainly prove my predictions wrong….or do we have an outsiders??

But nontheless, Im sticking with my picks….


Steve 27 Says:

Lisa, my pics
Olympics: Murray or Nadal
Us Open Nadal or Djokovic
WTF Djokovic or Murray


Lisa Says:

@Steve 27, Fair enough….

But I still think Federer is the favourate at WTF, no matter what happens this year….


Michael Says:

It would be pretty useless to make predictions. Before this Wimbledon, very few Tennis Commentators and Critics gave Roger a chance to win the title. But he still won despite a bad back beating the World No.1 in the Semis and No.4 in the finals. Therefore, anything can happen. But I am hoping that with the momentum in Roger’s favour, he would go on to win the Olympics especially since they are playing on Grass court where Roger is the KING.


Michael Says:

And again, Nadal beating Federer doesn’t mean he’s overall better. Tennis isn’t about beating one guy, it’s about beating everyone. And Federer has done that better than anyone ever has

Many Rafans have to read this.


Michael Says:

Beating a combination of Federer/Djokovic/Nadal in semis and final on way to a slam title is extraordinarily hard. Only 1 player did it: Del Potro.

If it recollect, Del Potro beat Nadal in the Semis and Roger in the finals at the US Open 2009. But did be beat Novak ? I would say NO.


Sienna Says:

Lisa and Steve 27 clearly have not been paying attention this tennis year.
Even if Rafa resorts to the same antics he was doing in 2010, he was still not among the fave’s to win on a fast court.
Not eventuali when out of the blue his serve morphse inexplicably into Karlovic’s.


Lisa Says:

@Micheal

Im not saying Federer cannot win the ‘Mens Singles Gold’ at the Olympics….There is a good prospect he can given his current form and confidence….But I just think Nadal would have the upper hand here(Given what I’ve said above)….

Even if Nadal is the defending Olympic champion….Note that he is more a ‘underdog’ then compared to Federer….


Michael Says:

Lisa,

Let us wait for four more weeks to know who is the Champion. Roger has already done much this year by winning the prestigious Wimbledon, 2 Master events, 2 ATP 500 Masters and so Olympics will be an added Bonus. Nadal too has done very well on Clay as he usually does and to defend it successfuly would be unique as not many have done that before. So, interesting times ahead for Tennis buffs.


alison Says:

Michael i completely agree,tennis is not about match ups,its what you do against the overall field,and you dont actually here the sensible Rafa fans arguing the toss about that,i think the only thing we get fed up of hereing about is what he hasnt achieved,when it would be nice if he got credit for a change for what he has achieved,which is a damned sight more than many players out there,so please dont pigeon hole all Rafa fans together.


alison Says:

Michael sir Steve Redgrave won 5 consecutive olympic gold medals,now how about that for a mark of concistency.


Michael Says:

Alison,

I never tried to deny the greatness of Nadal in this forum. I have always maintained that he is an all time Great. At such a young age, he has achieved so much in Tennis which is a source of wonder. But the problem comes when many haters of Federer are on a mission to degrade Roger and upgrade Nadal based on the H2H. I do not think that is in good taste and Roger needs to be defended from such vituperative attacks.

That being said, Alison, you are one of the very few posters who maintains decorum in this forum. I never for once have seen you lose your temper and going on a offensive mode. Although you are a fan of Nadal, you respect the achievements of Roger too similar to mine but in a opposite way.


Michael Says:

Alison,

Steve Redgrave won 5 consecutive olympic gold medals

I am not aware of this mammoth achievements. Thanks for briefing me about this. There are many Sport personalities whose achievements amazes us with wonder.


csebig Says:

I guess there is no way Nadal will winn the Olympics.

It will be only best of 3 sets and just one week. Grass will be still green at the end of the week when Nadal will face tougher competition, not like in the second week of Wimbledon when it is already green clay.

And if it rains and the roof is closed… he has no chance!


jamie Says:

I can’t see Nadal defending the gold.

Remember he has never defended a title off clay.

LOL.


Mark Says:

@ Jamie. When will you get the psychic’s predictions for the Olympics?


jamie Says:

@ Mark

I suppose when the Olympics begin. On July 28.


alison Says:

Michael i always try to be as fare as i possibly can,its not always easy though,when your favourite stomaches so much negativity,but then again all players have their fare share of haters,so i find the best thing to do is not to give them the time of day,i do pretty much the same thing in the real world,anyway about Sir Steve Redgrave it wasmething i read in a newspaper,and when interviewed about it he said,factually im not going to disagree with you,however im not really the one to talk about it,so there you are,pretty much like Roger not only a great sportsman but very humble too.


rogerafa Says:

@csebig

As far as I know, the center court will not be used for the Olympics tennis event. Hence no roof.
The best-of-three format till the final makes it very open. I think big servers have a very good chance of reaching the final. As good as the top four are, I think they will be vulnerable on grass in the shorter format even though the better return games of players like Novak, Rafa and Andy could ultimately prove to be the difference. I think someone like a Tsonga has a very good shot at reaching the final. The draw will be very crucial because no player will fancy their chances against big servers on grass in a best-of-three format. If the groundsmen are somehow able to restore the court conditions to resemble the start-of-wimby conditions and the weather remains moist, there could be a lot of upsets early on.


Polo Says:

I always thought 2011 was a fluke year for men’s tennis. I doubt if Djokovic has enough confidence in himself. He was so pleased with 2011 but when he said that it may be hard for him to have the same year, I take that not as a sign of humility but rather a lack of confidence. That is the difference between him and Federer. Even in Federer’s best years, he always looked forward to having an even better season the following year. That is what a true champion is.


Sienna Says:

Idont know what you eaxactly mean with fluke year.
But I found 2010 somewhat of a fluke year by Nadal.
It is quite obvious he got very lucky that Roger hit a lun infection after his dominating start at AU Open. Come to think of it so was 2008.

Rafa got very lucky with Fed’s mono and lung infection.

the year 2009 shows exactly what I mean. Rafa saw that there was no chance of him winning Wimbledon title and chose to withdraw instantly after he saw his draw.

Rafa was very lucky that he took advantage of Fed being slightly off and Novak was not ready yet to take over.


jane Says:

“Before this Wimbledon, very few Tennis Commentators and Critics gave Roger a chance to win the title.”

That’s not true, actually – lots of pundits/writers picked Fed to win before Wimbledon even started.


Brando Says:

‘That’s not true, actually – lots of pundits/writers picked Fed to win before Wimbledon even started.’

COMPLETELY AGREE- as i saw the same.

Fed winning at wimby WAS NOT a shock result by ANY stretch of the imagination.


Steve 27 Says:

I guess there is no way Nadal will winn the Olympics.

It will be only best of 3 sets and just one week. Grass will be still green at the end of the week when Nadal will face tougher competition, not like in the second week of Wimbledon when it is already green clay.

And if it rains and the roof is closed… he has no chance!

You don’t know anything about the power of motivation, the privilege of chase a medal for your country is unmatched!.


Steve 27 Says:

Sienna, more excuses for you idol. Everyone knows that 2009 was a bad year for Nadal and Federer opposite to that took advantage of the advantage of having injured his opponent. But we know that your lack reasoning makes the Swiss is all good and the Spaniard is all bad . Only black and white, no grays. Emotion clouds the true facts.


laslo Says:

Winner: Any of the top 3 + Tsonga


alison Says:

ATM Im just hoping as a fan of Rafas that hes actually able to compete at the olympics.


skeezer Says:

^alison
Barring any knee issues he should compete just fine. Remember, he has 2 Slams on Grass…..the dude has procen he can play on better than most others.


alison Says:

Thanks Skeezer as long as hes fit enough to play,is all im bothered about,he has a fortnight to be ready,so fingers crossed he will be fine.


Daniel Says:

Somebody posted im RF facebook page:

287 weeks as #1, 1 day to go
2+8+7=17

It was planed:)


Daniel Says:

Somebody posted im RF facebook page:

287 weeks as #1, 1 day to go
2+8+7=17


Lisa Says:

If your an ‘Anti-Nadal’ fan(also Nadal fans included)….This is good read I got from an article….

Nadal is not the GOAT….nor will he ever be in the same greatness/ralm as Federer….

But….But….Nadal might just be the ‘Greatest Role Model’ ever. And heres why….

[He has given us hope. And he has done that through pure hard work, dedication and a never say die attitude.

You see, in real life, very few of us have the kind of genius that a Federer possesses. In fact, at work or at play, we often come up against that kind of genius. But Nadal has proven to us that such genius can be beaten.

Nadal does it by his incredible tenacity. The man is a machine. He needs to focus much harder then Federer every moment in a game simply because the game deosn't flow as naturally to him as it does to Federer. The game isn't played in his prefered hand. He's honed his craft over many years. His build a physique which is probably second to non in men's tennis. He is relentless. Absolutely relentless. You know he's ging to come at you and keep coming at you till you're worn down.

Federer practically coasted through to semi-finals. Nadal on the other hand already by averge spends 12hrs on court compared to Federer's usual 7-9 hrs. That would be enough reason to give up for normal men. But not Nadal. His mental strength seems to be in excess to his physical strength. So much so that he just simply overpowers Federer in the mental game. He is the only player who manages to make Federer human. He is the only player who manages to make Federer go an entire game not looking sublime.

And that's why I hate watching Federer play Nadal. He feels human. It's easy to forget that Roger Federer is a 30 year old man who still makes getting to Grand Slam semi-finals look easy because of the incredible talent he posseses. Many call it a day at that age. But not Federrer. He still looks in prime taking people apart. And he's earned it. But Nadal makes him look every bit his age. And he's done so since that fateful day at Wimbledon in 2008 when Federer conceded grass court supremacy.

But that's also why I think Nadal my be the greatest role model ever. When I step on the tennis court, I never think of playing like Federer. Who am I kidding? But Nadal, he gives me something to aspire to. He has shown from time to time that you can overcome the odds by fighting hard. Really hard. He's shown that you dont have to be a natural or a born genius or to even look god or stylish when doing your thing to do great things.

He's given many people hope. And he's done that by walking the talk and proving his point again, and agin and again.

Isn't that what great role models do?]


Brando Says:

@Lisa:

THANKS- and EXCELLENT ARTICLE!


skeezer Says:

Lisa,

Don’t know if I agree Rafa is a great role model(for kids especially)but it was a good post, and I get the part about his tenacity and hard work on the court. On the court, his fighting spirit is well admired.


metan Says:

@ Lisa, excellent, I LOVED IT
Thats the only reason I idolize RAFA, VAAAAMOS


metan Says:

@steve 27, thank you for the link of Andre Agassi

I am dummy but at least not rubbish like ray, I just checked rafa n roger achievements when both 26, rafa is just AMAZING and rafa still 26 and 1 month, still has 11 months to add some collections title n prize n money,,,

@ brando,
You have forgotten to add gold medal in rafa record compared to roger when he was 26.


metan Says:

I don’t understand why olympic is less important as said by some of Roger fans based on the point atp given,,,,,,,but why Roger put his hands n head into it since he turns pro 1998 n Roger failed to pocket medal except for double gold in 2008. What rubbish are you guys talking, if all those top 5 has loaded with P of atp,,,,,,,,,means money why can’t it be as prestige tour where there is a chance to contribute small think for your own country n put your own name to zealot it.


Michael Says:

I don’t understand why olympic is less important as said by some of Roger fans based on the point atp given

According to ATP, Olympics is less important than majors, WTF and Masters in terms of points. Till recently when Nadal won that Olympic Gold, the prominent players in the Tour boycotted Olympics. It was only when Nadal won, every player participated in that Olympics and it was truly a deserving win. If I remember rightly Nadal beat Novak in the Semis and Fernando Gonzalez in the finals. So, the Olympics is gaining in importance from the players point of view only recently. It is most played for pride and prestige as you say. It is not fair to say that Roger hasn’t won the Olympic medal. He has won it in last Olympics partnering Wawarinka. That is also a significant achievement. But so far a single’s Gold is eluding him. Who knows, may be this is his Year ?????


Michael Says:

am dummy but at least not rubbish like ray, I just checked rafa n roger achievements when both 26, rafa is just AMAZING and rafa still 26 and 1 month, still has 11 months to add some collections title n prize n money,,,

So far, Yes, Rafa has done very well. But who knows how long he is going to last with the knee troubling him ? Even a fanatic Rafa Fan will not give him durability on the tour as Roger just because the style of Rafa takes a toll on your body. I give him just 28 to win majors. Afterwards, he might still be a force on Clay, but not on other surfaces.


Michael Says:

Lisa @ July 14th, 2012 at 9:53 pm

Good post.

But every player in the Circuit works very hard with only some succeeding. Rafa has extraordinary talent, hard work as well as some element of luck which is paramount for success. See a guy like Ferrer or Murray. Does anybody know the kind of hard work they put ? Are they rewarded well ?? So it all depends. Finally, nothing succeeds like success.


metan Says:

Positive mind is better then negative mind, and I believe that rafa can make it. I am going to ask him personally, don’t worry,


metan Says:

@Michael,

Your post @2:22am
One of many reasons why there’s no GOAT imo.


Sienna Says:

metan Says:
Positive mind is better then negative mind, and I believe that rafa can make it. I am going to ask him personally, don’t worry,

July 15th, 2012 at 2:34 am

Metan.

Rafa is not first or second favorite for the next few tennis tournements.

Him winning either olympics, US Open or 1 of the masters is a long shot.You should not keep your hopes up it puts unfair pressure on rafa. He just cannot handle several player including #1 and 2 on the faster courts. Also there are to many loos canons to hit their zone when rafa enters the fast tourneys.

I am not saying impossible but hardly is the best describtion of rafa doing well and reach a final on thos tourneys.

Better not keep your hopes on it is for your own benefit.


Michael Says:

One of many reasons why there’s no GOAT imo.

What do you exactly mean by this ? I said that every Tennis Player gives his best, but only some succeed partly due to their talent, temperament during big points, consistency and above all element of luck. Roger is the most successful Tennis Player of all time and therefore there is no reason why he should not be conferred with the GOAT title??


metan Says:

@sienna

Thank you very much for your advise, I will consider it when my Vamos Rafa hangs his raqcuet .


metan Says:

@Michael,

Pleasssssse REREAD CAREFULLY your post, the meaning n answer is there. THANK YOU,


Lisa Says:

Glad you guys liked the post…:)

I felt pretty much the same way as you guys, when I read the article….


Ray Says:

I dont think Rafa is the greatest role-model.

his win by hook or crook method is the worst example you can set for others. Sport is not about winning. It is about playing it the right way. We all know about how Rafa breaks so many rules in the rule book. you pull that kind of crap in foot ball, the refree will kick you out.

I think Federer, djokovic, sampras and maybe even murray make better role-models.

With rafa, you hope for the sake of the sport, that the only rules he is violating are the ones on record so far. it would be very harmful for the sport if he has violated even more rules.


WTF Says:

I think he’s capable and has a few good years left, so time is on his side. However, I’m getting increasingly more and more doubtful as each slam passes by him. There are players at least as good as he is that will be around for at least as long as he will (Djokovic and Nadal come to mind). He usually lives up to his seeding, but nothing more.

His game is pretty capable but he does lose his cool and when that happens it’s over for him. He needs to work on the mental side of things.

His record in GS finals is abysmal and I feel it is down to not being able to handle pressure, because 3 of those 4 finals he lost were against Federer, a guy he has beaten before and held a winning record against. So we know he’s capable of beating Federer. He just can’t seem to do it when it counts most. He can’t handle the enormity of the occasion.

If he wins one, all the pressure will be off and he will have experience. The second one will come easier because dealing with the situation successfully won’t be new to him.


laslo Says:

Wish List OG:

Nadal
Novak
for the Gold


courbon Says:

@Brando.
Hi, don’t lose your cool with provocators on this blog.You don,t have to justify nadals achivments.You know I’m Novaks fan but Nadal is surely one of the greatest tennis players ever.Like you pointed, the numbers say it for themself.I hope you guy recovers for the next battle and we will have great matches to watch this season.All the best
@Jane
Hi, actually Novak has also great motivation playing for Serbia-You never know.But I have to admit-Wimbledon,grass-Federer is favorite.


jamie Says:

Andy Murray is in the current SR *****Jupiter conjunction sun*****. That is a promise of something “GREAT”, a slam win under that SR. Andy began his SR in May 2012. So far he lost at RG and Wimbledon under that GREAT SR. Perhaps like Federer, he will have to wait until the last slam played under that GREAT SR, the AO 2013, to finally win a slam. Federer had a GREAT SR which began in August 2011 and had to wait until the last slam played under his GREAT SR, Wimbledon 2012, to finally win a slam again.

===================

This prediction concurs with that of the Argie psychic that Murray will win AO 2013, the last slam under his current SR.


Brando Says:

@Courbon:

Thanks for your kinds words. Like you mentioned, and wisely so, i am through with the trolls. NO POINT in engaging with them at all really, is there?

You come to this website, you notice a post with a username, IF its a troll- you SCROLL DOWN. pretty EASY stuff really!

Re rafa: im more than COOL with my fav position in the game. I mean IF he were to never win a title from here onwards in his career, the record books would STILL have his name next to Rod Laver and Bjorn Borg in the main category, GS wins- how cool is that?

IT’S AWESOME! His legacy is more than secure, with nothing left to proof really- LEAST of all to the pathetic, spiteful haters!

LMAO- his life is good for sure, there’s……..


WTF Says:

“Nadal took down Mariano Puerta at the French”

To be fair, I think Nadal would have won no matter who the opponent was. At the time, the best other players on clay were Federer (whom he beat in the SF) and Coria (whom he’d already beaten twice going in, at Monte Carlo and Rome).


SG1 Says:

Lisa…I wouldn’t be so quick to downgrade Nadal’s talent in comparison to Federer. Nadal has his own set of unique talents that Federer cannot match.

When I first saw Nadal, I thought as you did. Here’s a tenacious guy with an ugly game. He’ll win some FO’s, but that’s it. I was completely wrong.

I can’t think of too many players who win Wimbledon (..let along winning it twice and in the finals 5 times), who are short on talent or greatness. Wimbledon rewards talent. Nadal is a considerably better volleyer than Federer to just to name one aspect.

Federer may glide around the court, but it’s Nadal that has the more savage strokes. Only the fact that Federer serves much better than Nadal keeps the matches as close as they generally are.


skeezer Says:

Don’t know if you can compare the talents of Rafa/Fed.

They are both very talented, but have different styles of game and approach the game differently. How can u compare FH’s?

As an example, one has a liquid whip, the other a never been see before beastly topspin? They both move very differently, but both do so in a way that enhances there own game.

Put it another way, would love to move and serve like Fed, and have Rafa’s FH, and Nole’s BH……sweeeeet! (i’d have 30 slams by now)


Daniel Says:

“Nadal is a considerably better volleyer than Federer to just to name one aspect.”

This is one of the most over the top notions around in the last couple of years. Nadal is a good safe volleyer. The guy only goes to the net scared to death, when forced to. I think I only saw him serve and volley 3 times since 2005.
Federer has superb volleys, all volleys, Nadal could never do what Fed did in this year Wimby final.


Manny Says:

Thanks@ Lisa 14 July 9.53pm great post. @ Ray u have some serious issues, and this coming from a Federer fan. Lest we forget that Rafa’s rivalry with Fed has made tennis ever more interesting. Why is it so many ‘salivate’ over a possible fedal GS final? And how can you possibly forget the 6hr AO open ’12 final? Even though Nadal lost, you can’t help but appreciate his effort & never say die attitude & yet humble in defeat just like when he lost to Ferrer in the QF, saying he lost to a better player when we all know he played below par because of his problem knees. That said: Nadal is the king of clay, and Federer the master of grass and indoor surfaces. Who is the GOAT? We can debate that in 5 years time, when fedal have both retired. For the remainder of the year I’m going for Fed to win Gold at London & win a record 7th WTF. The US open? I’d hate to say but most likely Djokovic.


skeezer Says:

“Who is the GOAT? We can debate that in 5 years time, when fedal have both retired”

Uh? Who is the GOAT in 5 years? 10 years? 20 years? This has been beaten death. You’re inventng a moving target. So does the tennis world forever wait to acknowledge someones accomplishments as the greatest ever? I am sure if we wait another 100 years MAYBE some of Feds records wil lbe topped. But what do you say in the meantime? Wait?
Fed is the undisputed GOAT NOW, and until further notice. He has been for some time……


Manny Says:

When will Murray win a grand slam? Well besides the big 3 getting in his way, there is also the Delpo factor. Prior to his career threatening injury at the end of ’09 it seemed like he was on his way to being a legitimate #1. he still hasn’t reached that level again, but if he does get back there (& I hope he does), then Murray stands no chance. And besides that, he’ll also have to contend with another upcoming threat: Raonic!


Manny Says:

@Skeezer in 5 years time both Fed & Nadal would have both retired, They both have probably another good year or two to add to their credentials. Unless Rafa can add to his GS tally other than RG, then the Goat will go to Fed, no matter how lopsided their h2h is. This is between Fed and Nadal, not what happens in 20 or 100 years time.


wazatron Says:

I think this is a decent article.

My OPINION is that Andy will NEVER win a GS. He has had his opportunities and has failed. He just isnt good enough and does not have enough NATURAL talent to beat the top 3 and no amount of training will change this.

With regards to the GOAT. Today it is fed. 7 Wimbledon, 6 ATP finals (i think should be considererd a GS), 5 US, 4 Aus, 1 french.
in my opinion Nadal is a great player – thats it. Roland Garros is the only reason why people argue he may be the GOAT.
People are delusional to even consider Novak as the GOAT, what is it only 5 GS?!

when i watch the top 3 play all i can see is…..
Novak – is a machine who just gets everything back.
Rafa – is a raging spanish bull
Fed – is an artist.
Murray – pah.

I also now think Tsonga will win a GS soon.

Top story: Coric Ends Nadal's Season In Basel, Federer Overwhelms Dimitrov; Ferrer v Murray In Valencia
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