Djokovic, Murray Survive Scares In Cincinnati, Nadal Doesn’t; Federer Flies Past Anderson
by Staff | August 21st, 2015, 12:55 am
  • 176 Comments

It was a memorable round of 16 at the Cincinnati Masters today with seven of the Top 8 players in the world in action. And the top guys had their share of troubles.

French Open champion Stan Wawrinka began the day having to beat the dangerous Ivo Karlovic in a three tiebreak affair 6-7(2), 7-6(5), 7-6(5).

Top seed and 4-time finalist Novak Djokovic was next on center and figured to be the heavy favorite against David Goffin who had never beaten a Top 5 player. But the Belgian wouldn’t go away after dropping the first set. In fact, he took the second 6-2 and then led Djokovic 3-0 in the third before the wheels came off and Novak won 6-4, 2-6, 6-3.

“Credit to him for playing some solid, consistent tennis, always making me play an extra shot,” Djokovic said of Goffin who turned his ankle late in the match. “Luckily for me, I managed to bounce back, dig myself out of this hole I was in… I will try to take the positives out of this match.”

Last week Djokovic saved two match points against Ernests Gulbis. Now a tough afternoon against Goffin.

In the evening, more drama for the top seeds. 2013 champion Rafael Nadal was pushed to the brink and then over it by countryman Feliciano Lopez who took down Rafa for a fourth time in his career 5-7, 6-4, 7-6(3).

“It means a lot when you beat such a good player like him,” the 33-year-old Lopez said. “It’s not a normal match. It’s something different and the atmosphere there when you play against Rafa, it’s always something special.

“I think he’s playing better, getting better and better. He played good today. I mean I was playing really my best today. Doesn’t matter the way he played because I was playing so good today.”

Nadal hasn’t won a Masters event since Madrid last year and the last time he played a Masters in the US he lost to another lefty Spaniard, Fernando Verdasco in Miami.

“I was there during the whole match with the right intensity, with the right attitude, doing the things that I have to do, trying to be more aggressive, trying to go to the net more often,” Nadal said. “That’s what I did. But today I played against an opponent that he played a fantastic match, I think. He played the best match ever against me, without a doubt … For me it’s a tough loss because I was playing better and my feelings on court were better than they were before.”

Nadal will go into the US Open with just a 3-2 summer hardcourt record with more question marks.

And while Rafa was playing, so too was 2-time Cincinnati champion Andy Murray. The Scot got down early to Grigor Dimitrov 6-4 and two breaks 4-1 before somehow battling back to take the second. But after getting out front with a break in the third, he fell behind 5-2. Surely Dimitrov would finish Murray off.

Not to be.

Murray once again rallied winning the last four games and saving a match point en route to take the match 4-6, 7-6, 7-5.

“If you want to win the big competitions, you’ll have to come through difficult situations,” said Murray. “Last year, I didn’t come through enough of them. I lost a lot of matches from winning positions, and this year I managed to turn that around, which was very positive.”

Six-time champion Roger Federer was having none of the drama handing Kevin Anderson one of his worst career losses beating the World #15 6-1, 6-1.

“Definitely felt better than other days. Felt good on the return, felt good on the serve, seeing just the ball really well,” Federer said. “It’s a pleasure to play that way because it doesn’t happen very often that you feel this good. So you’ve got to enjoy it, but then, unfortunately, you have to quickly put it behind you and look forward.”

Federer will now face Lopez tomorrow in the quarters. He leads the Spaniard 11-0. And Murray meets Richard Gasquet who won easily over Marin Cilic. Murray has won five of eight from the Frenchman.

“Played a lot against him in my life. We go way back to the European Championships, under-16 and under-18 where I lost both times against him,” Federer said of Lopez.

“Then on the Tour I don’t think I lost against him, but we played on all different conditions, and we know each other obviously very well because of that. It was a tough match for him tonight; played a good ’breaker. Obviously everybody knows how well he can serve. He also beat Raonic here, now Rafa. Clearly he’s on a run.”

Alexandr Dolgopolov duels Tomas Berdych – the big Czech leads 4-0 – and in the first match of the Djokovic and Wawrinka resume their rivalry. Djokovic leads 17-4 but Stan has two recent Grand Slam including the French Open final.

“It’s going to be the first time we’ve met [since] the French Open final,” Djokovic said of his next match against Wawrinka. “Both of us, we are still not playing our best, but hopefully we can rise to the occasion and have a good match.”

Wawrinka also went the distance with Borna Coric a round earlier, plus all of his off court news with Nick Kyrgios may have taken its toll.

FRIDAY CINCINNATI SCHEDULE
CENTER start 11:00 am
ATP – [1] N. Djokovic (SRB) vs [5] S. Wawrinka (SUI)
Not Before 1:00 pm
WTA – [1] S. Williams (USA) vs [6] A. Ivanovic (SRB)
Not Before 3:30 pm
ATP – [12] R. Gasquet (FRA) vs [3] A. Murray (GBR)

Not Before 7:00 pm
ATP – F. Lopez (ESP) vs [2] R. Federer (SUI)
Not Before 8:30 pm
WTA – A. Pavlyuchenkova (RUS) vs [3] S. Halep (ROU)


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John Isner Doesn’t Care That There Are No American Men In The Top 20
Wawrinka Escapes, Nadal Strong, Loaded Schedule Thursday at ATP Cincinnati Including Murray
2014 N. American Hardcourt Schedules: Where Will Federer, Nadal And Djokovic Be This Summer?
Andy Murray Is Now Out Of Cincinnati, Will Lose No. 1 Ranking; Hopes To Play US Open

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176 Comments for Djokovic, Murray Survive Scares In Cincinnati, Nadal Doesn’t; Federer Flies Past Anderson

Margot Says:

OMG that match sounds like one it was very good to have missed. EEK! EEK! EEK!
So glad Andy remains “positive”..;)
Let’s Go Andy! Let’s Go!


Michael Says:

Well, the Rafa Vs Lopez was a quality encounter where both players played their best. I think
Rafa would have been pretty disappointed to lose this match considering that it seemed that he rediscovered his mojo after some time. But, Lopez had other ideas and he just unleashed the beautiful dying art of serve and volley to near perfection which some what unsettled Rafa. But there were instances when he executed brilliant passes too out of reach of Lopez. All said and done, Lopez through his exploits denied us the pleasure of watching a Roger Vs Rafa encounter after a long time !!


Matt Says:

The Nadal collapse continues. Pretty serious and a big reversal of fortune/form seems pretty incredible. I’ve been fairly outspoken on this. Seriously doubt another 2013 is around the corner. Watch him play. It’s pretty remarkable.


RZ Says:

@Margot – definitely a close encounter and good escape for Andy. Hopefully he won’t cut it so close in his next matches!


wilfried Says:

The article has some content errors.
Goffin did only lead the third set by a score of 6-3, a double break in fact, but he lost his own serve afterwards.
If he would have won that service game, he would have led by 6-4 and probably ‘d have won the match. But he lost his nerves and precision at that very moment and as a consequence of this the match.


wilfried Says:

correction to my comment: would have led by 4-0 (in stead of 6-4). Fatigue I guess.


Margot Says:

@RZ
So YOU were watching eh? And THAT Markus too, I’ll be bound…..;)


SnotNosedKid Says:

I actually think this is smart move by Nadal & Uncle Toni. He sucks so bad right now, it makes sense to lose to a tomato can like Lopez, and avoid a sure loss in the next rounds to Fed or Djoker, which would only improve their head-to head against him.


Charlie Says:

@Matt, I wouldn’t say it’s a collapse. Indeed he was playing better and actually increased his world ranking recently. And he’ll be a top 8 seed a the US Open.
However, something must be done with his team. This match aside (he could’ve won that match, it went either way), he’s continuously been ill prepared in some matches this year. And the game plans he’s had against some opponents have been weak. I had previously resisted the call for Uncle Toni’s head, but something has to give.


skeezer Says:

Great line up coming up. All the best players still in.


FedExpress Says:

Snotnosekid, if that is the case then he would be a coward

3 times we were denied a fedal match this year by a whisker

IW, rome and cinci. I will ignore the h2h argument cause its irrelevant and screwed


jane Says:

“Goffin did only lead the third set by a score of 6-3″

erm, if goffin “led” by that score he’d've won the match since he’d won set 2. ;)

he was up 3-0 serving second in the third set: broke, held, then broke. but then novak won the next 6 games straight to win the set 6-3.

dimitrov’s collapse was even worse, considering he’d won the first set, was up a double break in the second and just 2 games from the match, and then again in the third set he was at 5-2, one game from the match. just couldnt get over the finish line.

but there you go. that’s maybe what separates the guys who won; they can come through even when playing badly. sometimes, only, of course. even they can go out, as we saw with rafa. but rafa was very close to the win.

i think he’s just hiding from fed. ;) just kidding!


Jock-KatH Says:

Golly, golly, golly – How on earth did Murray manage to overcome Grigor after what seems like so many break-points? One nwsp. heading says “Magic Murray” – possibly they should have said “Miracle Murray”.

Anyway, Andy’s through as are Djokovic and Stan and Fed. well done everybody – really hoped Rafa would make it as well…but not to be just yet.


wilfried Says:

@ Mat4,
Interesting take here by Patrick Hameau on his blog as far as Novak’s match against David Goffin is concerned (article written in French).
http://blog.lesoir.be/amortieetlob/2015/08/21/peur-de-gagner-mais-non-voyons-montee-precoce-demotion/
Shows a much milder point of view than calling David a choker.
Patrick was competing on the tour himself for a while, so he knows what he’s talking about.


wilfried Says:

@ Jane
Sorry. I’m very tired at the moment and making some errors in my own comments.
Watched the entire match yesterday between Novak and David and cursing like Courbon does in front of his Tv.
Anyways.
Should have written “Goffin only lead by a score of 3-0″ instead of 4-0.


jane Says:

wilfred, no; i was just teasing. seems we were all cursing, us nole fans, lol. or sigh…


madmax Says:

Some fantastic matches on show.

Two players on tour who show, more than anything, what it’s like to be facing defeat, and then somehow, (but how)?), really, HOW? Just HOW? do they turn it around.

How do they find that confidence, when they must feel like jacking it in, but they turn it around so quickly, as if it’s easy.

Murray and Novak. Both of them in their previous matches, did just that.

Awesome play. Awesome reserve and self-belief.


Gypsy Gal Says:

Its dissapointing seeing Rafa fall away like this even from winning positions now too,i know he enjoys playing still,but surely he wont be enjoying playing like this,its not what i want as a fan,but i think id rather he retire than become a shadow of the player he once was,the haters will be having a field day….


Frankie Says:

By the way Fed beat Anderson 6-1 6-1,

Anyways if Nadal can no longer win or enjoy the sport he will quit on his own terms. Imagine his heartbreak. He plays as well as he can and still gets beat…I feel bad for him but that is how sport plays out.


Tennis Vagabond Says:

Fed has definitely had bad luck on the H2H front this year, as was pointed above: he keeps missing nadir-Rafa by a hair.

Anyway, it sounds like he played a solid match, but if you keep losing solid matches, you’re still not winning trophies. Novak and Murray showed the opposite (current) tendencies, having the resilience to find the moment and sprint to the finish.

It will take me some time to believe Rafa’s really done as a contender, but this feels different. Losing on all surfaces. Losing to the best regularly, and the lesser-players too regularly. Hmm. Maybe I just talked my way into it.

Hope for a great match between Stan and Novak, but I expect Novak is going to want this too much to let Stan in.

Hoping for a Novak/Fed final, but Stan/Fed would be great too. Heck, have we seen Murray against Slam Stan? That could be neat.


Humble Rafa Says:

Disappointed that I cannot make it to the GOATvalry. But these things happen.

As the record will show, I am far superior than the Arrogant One.


Felipe Says:

This tournament proves that head to head is crap…by his standars…Federer 2008 and 2013 can be counted as down years, and two of Nadals best. They played 4 times each year, with Nadal dominating 8-0. This year, the worst ever for Nadal..they have played…ZERO times…and 3 times they were 1 match away, Indian Wells (Raonic beats Nadal), Rome (Wawrinka beats Nadal) Cincy (Lopez beats Nadal). Interestingly, on 2013, they faced at Indian Wells, Rome and Cincy, meaning that eventough Federer clearly was having a subpar year, he was still beating people he was suppose to beat and playing Nadal against all odds.
People tend to forget that when Nadal is not firing on all cylinders, Federer tends to routine him (Hamburg 2007 / Master cup 2007 / 2010 and 2011 / Madrid 2009 / Indian Wells 2012), so the chances of 3 tirumphs for Federer this year were very high.
In other subject…Dimitrov is back to his 2012 – 2013 self….which means…leading matches against top palyers only to give them away. At least he can gain some self confidence by the fact that he is improving and that he has the tools to start beating those guys.


dapris Says:

hi tennis fans on tennis-x.I’ve been loving this site and the love between rival fans.I will like to get involve in such discussions.its usually amusing.lots of funny nicknames:wogboy,gypsy gal e.t.c.well, and I am a djokovic fan.hope I get some love


Jeez Says:

Its matches like these that Dimitrov has not many takers(NOW) as Future PROSPECT !!

He should stop his WTAish play on the ATP tour if he is to CAPITALIZE the opportunities that come his way..


Gypsy Gal Says:

Its not a site for Nadal fans anymore,and the more he loses the worse its getting,probably nice pay back for 2013,when due to the closure of tennis talk they ran riot here,everyone seems to have dissapeard,no Kimberly who said she cant stand the sight of this forum,Nadalista,Brando,Giles seldom now and the rest,people come and go with the success of their favorites,probably cant stand the negativity that goes with their favorites,its only tennis shame some people have to hate so much….


Gypsy Gal Says:

Snotnosekid what a load of rubbish,yeah sure right Nadal lost to Lopez on purpose to avoid Federer,honestly people spout some crap on this forum at times,but that really takes the cake….


Gypsy Gal Says:

Dapris Djokovic has a large fan base on this forum,so you will fit right in,hes very popular….


jane Says:

“Heck, have we seen Murray against Slam Stan?”

nope. the last time they played was almost 2 years ago, us open 2013. stan won in straights then pushed novak to 5 in the semi.

since their really tight battle at AO 2013, novak and stan have played 7 times.


Okiegal Says:

@Gypsy Gal……Hate is a powerful word and it’s sad that it shows up in a tennis forum, of all places! I have noticed that some posters rarely post until Rafa loses and then here they come spewing venom. I hate to think about Rafa retiring but I’m rather falling in with the Federer fans when he was in his decline and losing more than winning, calling for him to retire. But he rose up out of the ashes and crawled his way back to the top….. maybe Rafa can to! The difference between Rafa and Fed, Fed has the confidence he can and Rafa doesn’t. Arrogance exudes confidence. Does Rafa need more of that characteristic that Roger possesses?? Probably, but I like him just like he is…… ever so humble!! I’m ready for retaliation…..bring it!!! Lol


jalep Says:

Gypsy, I know it’s tough, really do.

The thing that will drive me from this place and what is strictly enforced on that place where I post on cycling is that they do not allow personal insults or bullying – which is what has been allowed here.

I’ve learned from that forum the guidelines that work and it’s: “Attack the post, not the poster”.{ meaning it’s fair game to disagree with what someone is posting and have a discussion about it. But, whatever it is you are saying don’t use insulting the poster, calling them idiot, stupid, ect…that get’s a ban of weeks, months or permanently.

What is fair game is being critical of a rider, a team, their tactics , ect. So, it still takes a thick skin to post but no one gets personally bullied. Does that make sense? Instead of being able to say – ” you are full of bull shit, you raging idiot” a poster has to go after the content of the post, not the poster. In other words: ‘Play the Ball, not the Man’ — Go after the content, not the poster.

Vuelta a Espana is going to be starting so I’ll be spending more time there and a favorite of mine, Vincenzo Nibali gets slammed often and hard. But I take it and like the posting guidelines. At least when I go after Sky’s tactics and Christopher Froome, he is fair game – his riding style, the tactics, ect.

It’s loaded with fanboys and girls but it’s not somewhere that fanboys and fangirls can go to worship, though. My favorites are going to get slammed and I know it. LOL…it’s sport!

However I may feel about a poster – I can disagree and say, ” Froome will lose 3 minutes to Vincezo on the wet cobbles” but not attack poster ‘SkyFan’ personally and call him a wasted life, loser, sycophant idiot …bla bla bla


jalep Says:

And by the way Gypsy, you are a great poster. Keep posting.


jane Says:

exactly jalep. no ad hominem attacks should be tolerated. mainly i’ve learned to expect & ignore trolls and haters, sometimes even to laugh at them.


elina Says:

h2h missed opportunities is a two way street statistically speaking.

Roger bowed out before he would have met Nadal many times on the big stage as well including French Opens in 2010, 2012 and 2013 , Wimbledon in 2010 and 2011, US Open in 2010, 2011 and 2013.

Not to mention the numerous times this happened in Masters events including Monte Carlo in 2005, 2009-13, Miami in 2008 and 2014, Rome in 2005, 2007-12, Madrid 2013 and 2015, Canada 2005, 2008 and 2013, Cincy 2008, Shanghai 2005 and 2009, and Paris in 2007,

So no less than 32 times to be exact.

No, I suspect there are other reasons that h2h is so readily claimed to be dismissed.


jalep Says:

jane, exactly – no ad hominem attacks. And the posters themselves are quick to call those attacks weak and cheap. But it’s still very lively without the ad hominem’s!

There big stars themselves and their teams are fair game – but if you just say Nibali is undeserving crap and his wins were with weak competition – you better back it up.


jalep Says:

See, Elina’s post is a perfect example of a fair post – she goes after the content.

It’s debatable. H2H in tennis doesn’t really hold the importance it does in other sports.


Ben Pronin Says:

I don’t believe in the ducking theory, not to this extent, anyway. If you had to pick 1 tournament where it is more than acceptable for Nadal to not just lose but maybe even get routed by Federer, it’s Cincinnati. Barring the 2013 miracle year, Nadal has always struggled on the quicker surface here whereas Federer has 6 freaking titles. Not only that, but when they played in 2013 on this same surface, a supremely slumping Federer still pushed Nadal to 3 sets. I’d say the surface had a big hand in that.

Meanwhile, Nadal had no problem showing up and getting thrashed by Djokovic at the French Open this year. Nadal had 13 extra wins over Federer. Is 23-11 really too hard for Nadal to stomach instead of 23-10? Does anyone really think that if Federer would have played and beaten Nadal today then at some point the h2h would end up 23-23 or something? Meanwhile Djokovic is like 2 matches behind in his h2h with Nadal.

That said, Nadal is really really not great right now. He’s literally OK. I think that’s what’s been so weird about his season. He’s simply fallen in with the pack. Lopez pulled off some great shots in the tiebreaker and he served well throughout the match, but Nadal, I don’t know, you just expect him to play better. Not even in the tiebreaker but at some point in the third set you just expect him to make some good returns and grind out some points. There were very few rallies on either guy’s serve in the third set. He basically let Lopez dictate the proceedings. I have no doubt Federer would have destroyed Nadal today. And I think that’s saying a lot because I’ve basically given up all hopes of Federer being able to beat Nadal over the past few years. But the way they’re both playing right now, it just seems like that’s the reality.

Elsewhere, Dimitrov is a terrible player. No knock on Murray, I thought he played a solid match throughout. But Dimitrov’s ridiculous up and down levels of play is just laughable. Instead of trying to be steady for 5 minutes he needs to blast a 500 mph winner off everything. He’s the Colin Kaepernick of the ATP.


Felipe Says:

Come on elina…following your theory…they miss a chance at heah to head every tournament that both enter and dont play each other. By your logic we should add USOPEN 2004-2008, AUS Open 2005-2007, etc.Im talking about what a down year can do head to head speaking to a player against other. In Federer case, 0-8 against Nadal…Nadal case 0-0. FACT.


Ben Pronin Says:

What other sport does h2h really hold importance besides boxing? H2H, or rather, rivalries are just fun tidbits for fans. It creates a narrative, it creates drama, and it adds importance to marquee match-ups. But if the Steelers lose both regular season games to the Ravens and then win the Super Bowl in the same year, it doesn’t matter. How many times did the Bulls sweep the Heat in the regular season only to lose to them in the playoffs? And despite losing to Nadal more often than not, Federer still has more slams and overall titles. So in the grand scheme of things, h2h doesn’t matter. It’s just fun.


Felipe Says:

Ben pronin….Nadal tough luck draw forced him to play Djokovic…its Roland Garros for Christ sake..the king of clay, 9 time champion going for an historic 10th…how can in heaven will Nadal want to tank against Sock??. He tried against Djoker, and after set 1 he gave up.


Ben Pronin Says:

I know, but everyone thinks Nadal tries to duck Federer. It just doesn’t make sense to me. Nadal’s overwhelming h2h over Federer can’t be overturned. And the 3 matches where he “ducked” Federer this year were all Masters events. So what if he had played and lost all 3? The h2h would be 23-13. That’s still a ridiculous margin. And they’d all be best of 3 at Masters. So it’s not like they carry all time importance like their slam finals or even semis. Couple that with the fact that Nadal tends to pick up his game against Federer and a lot of Nadal fans believe that playing Federer would be a great medicine for him. So I just don’t see the logic in ducking Federer, especially on surfaces that favor Federer anyway.

Ok so he won’t tank against Sock at the French but why wouldn’t he tank against Ferrer in Monte Carlo? Losing to Ferrer is mildly acceptable anyway, he lost to him last year. And then he gets straight-setted by Djokovic again. Why feed Djokovic’s confidence like that and let him get closer in the h2h? Again, ducking Federer makes no sense.


elina Says:

jalep, I find no need to insult posters. It just shows the admittance of lacking a solid argument.

Ben, great post at 10:29. I couldn’t agree with you more on everything you said.

Especially 2013 Cincy when Rafa was at his very best and Roger was struggling with his back and still using the smaller frame and still Rafa just barely won.

Roger would have embarrassed Nadal had they played today.


Jock-KatH Says:

GG – “Sticks and stones will break your bones but words will never hurt you”. That’s what I want to think, but it doesn’t always work – (although it should).

If the source of your disappointment centres around Rafa and how various posters negatively assess him – just ignore it – remember Andy Murray was “absent without leave” since he won Wimbledon and is only now showing signs of his previous form – no reason why others can’t — and yes I mean Rafa. Despite the gloomy and sometimes harsh forecasts – He Is Definitely Improving – and the pace of the improvement is accelerating. Very soon, Rafa will have the last laugh and you’ll have a good, hearty chuckle with a secret pat on the back because you really knew he would all the time.

Until then, why not become an honorary member of the “Murphy club”?


skeezer Says:

great post @ 10:38, and agree with most here no way no how Nadal was trying to duck Fed…c’mon.


skeezer Says:

I meant 10;46 =Ben. Sorry Felipe.


jalep Says:

Not sure if that would have been the case, elina.

H2H in their case is important, not in the great goat debate – not a belieber in goat, too subjective. In terms of their match-up, without going into forehand to weak backhand and all that, I do think it’s a bit of a psych-out for Federer. A little PTSD there.

In Cincy, it’s Roger’s turf more than Rafa’s but a confident Rafa, even a less than confident one could get him. I was actually looking forward to this Fedal. Would have been a boost for Rafa had he won it.


jane Says:

the notable thing about the fedal match misses this season is that each time they were set to meet, nadal lost one match before. it’d probably less noticeable, perhaps not even commented upon, had it been earlier. it’s just a weird coincidence. plus people always highly anticipate their matches.


Daniel Says:

GG,

Many of us Fed fans and others stick around even during 2011 and 2013.

Nadal fans oddly disappeared in bucket with the exception of you and Oky and Giles.

Hang in there, is part of their careers have ups and downs, and If it is only downfall, I am sure the fans will still enjoy them playing.

And nobody had ore back slash (or praise) than Federer, so it is not going to be different for Nadal.


Angel Says:

Nadal last chance to win a Grand Slam for me is Roland Garros 2016, and probably the last chance for Novak to win the French as well. I cannot see Nadal winning slams with 30 years old, I’m pretty sure about that.


sienna Says:

Nadal doesnot duck federer. he is just not good enough. but it explaines great why h2h is no meassure for greatness.

Elina
youre missing the point. you talk about Rafa slamwins where the argument is for h2h. fact is Nadal bowed out many more then federer before facing eachother on their favorite courts.


Daniel Says:

It’s not like Nadals “avoiding” Fed, it’s more that we are un lucky to not see them play (specially for Fed fans as Nadal is in a slump). We already are with 70% of the season gone and no matches between them. 5 more tourneys left and the best chance is WTF London due to round robin 50% chance of them land int the same group.

Fed is not turning HxH around but he sure can (as proven in past) win on fast conditions and judging by his form and Nada’s some wins by Fed won;t hurt at all.

Their HxH will always goes like Nadal wins 2 out of 3, that was always their average. So at 23-10, ending this year 24-12 would be expected.


Daniel Says:

Ben,I think the HxH only gets more attention in tennis (as in boxing) due to being one on one sport, and usually is associated with bad match up or a mental advantage. Sometimes with a technical superiority as well. You can’t say that a Fed, Djoko, Murray, Nadal are equal to a Robredo. But that’s why there is other factors to support it: surface, form, injury, age, momentum and etc…


Daniel Says:

Djoko paying much better today, but so is Wawa as well. Both hitting the ball well.


jalep Says:

Does anyone realize that Nole v Stan is on?


Ben Pronin Says:

Daniel, I agree.

Dominik Hrbaty ended his career 2-1 over Federer and 3-1 over Nadal. So is he the GOAT?

Interestingly he was 1-0 against Murray and 0-1 against Djokovic. So Dominik Hrbaty a combined 6-3 over the Big 4. Definitely the GOAT.


elina Says:

Small sample size plus without looking it up I suspect age advantage.


sienna Says:

nobody talks about wawa djokovic Let alone Murphy.

Fedal is the name of the game.


RZ Says:

Nadal has nothing to lose by playing Fed. (And I don’t see why he would forego ranking points and prize money by losing a round early to avoid this). Even if he loses, it would be viewed in the context of Fed as the #2 or #3 ranked player and Nadal going through a slump. But if he wins, it would prove his ongoing domination over Fed. The person with something to lose in that match-up would be Federer, because if he loses to a slumping Nadal, the talk would be how he can’t beat Nadal even when Nadal is going through a tough time.


Angel Says:

elina, Roger Federer is the GOAT whether you like it or not. We can have different likes but the two most important records in tennis Federer has them. 17 Grand Slams and 302 weeks as number 1. Get over it.


dapris Says:

Stan vs nole should be a great indicator for new York.too bad both don’t look fully fit.hope nole wins though,if he gets cincy,flushing Meadows will be next


elina Says:

Angel an argument for Federer as GOAT is quite valid. Did I say otherwise?


dapris Says:

nole taking the first set 6 4. stan got a mountain to climb.already a break down in the 2


Ben Pronin Says:

Classic. If Rafa is ducking Federer then Wawrinka purposely plays horrible against Novak in best of 3 set matches so that he can surprise him in the slams. When is the last time a best of 3 between them went 3 sets? And yet every slam meeting is 5 sets EXCEPT FOR THAT ONE GD TIME.


skeezer Says:

Stan has to be more consistent with his service games. 50% first serves in is no going to cut it against the likes of Nole.


dapris Says:

at least stan takes a game in the second. Nole looks fired up for this.bring on dolgo or berdych.


Daniel Says:

Djoko won in just a little over 1 hours 6-4, 6-1, 2 wins away from a historical Cincy title. Wawa missing too much.

Can’t see him “finding”his form for US Open. Plus he will have a top8 rankings, so he has a 75% chance of playing either Djoko, Murray or Fed in Quarters. If he draws Kei, he would be lucky, to possibly meet on of them in semis.

Right now they are all playing better than him and USO is a fast court,not clay where he can find his range and goes to the draw.

Week by week and contenders for US Open is dropping. Can’t see now anyone other than top 3 taking it,just like Wimbledon.


Ben Pronin Says:

Daniel, look at Wawrinka’s results prior to the French Open. If there’s one thing I learned in the last few years, it’s that previous tournaments give no indication as to how well Stan will perform in the slams. He’s either going to lose in the first round or he’s going to at least the quarters or better. And I’d say he’s probably not going to lose in the first round.


dapris Says:

Common feudal fans crying about h2h and who bowed out early or when.history will remember those who won more important trophies. I won’t mind if Novak has a losing h2h against everybody so long as he wins 18GS and 29 masters 1000


jane Says:

Yay so glad Novak had an easier match today, even if Stan didn’t play his best. (Didn’t see it but that is what a friend to me)

Agree with Ben though that this is not a good indicator of how Stan will do at USO. I really think he and Magnus care only about slams at this point in his career. Expect Stan to do well at USO


kriket Says:

Goffin choked so badly, I don’t remember seeing such a choke in recent years. To get dismatled after running away 3-0 last set, and superior performance thus far can only be a choke of epic proportions. Good for Novak, bad for Goffin.


Daniel Says:

Agree that Stan is “unpredictable” but that was clay, where he has time to adjust and can even go better navigating thorough the draw. US Open is fast court and his movement was a bit of. Plus his serving is bad. And most of his unforced errors were when trying to be aggressive, which indicates lack of confidence, hence the score.

Will see. I think depending on his draw he can go out early, but let’s see in which side he lands and who he will be schedule for R16 and Quarters.

Can’t believe draw for USO will be out next Friday, time is flying. Next thing you know and the new Star Wars movie will be in theaters;-)


Gypsy Gal Says:

Thanks for the heads up Jalep and Daniel,i have the flu at the moment,so im too ill to think clearly to be honest at the moment….


Ben Pronin Says:

Kriket, you really think Goffin’s was worse than Dimitrov’s?


Daniel Says:

Dolgo never beat Berdych, so expect Berdych to be in semis, were he will lose to Djoko whois virtually in another final. The question is who will he face, Fed orin Murray will have anything left in the tank still.

Murray needs a clean two set win against Gasquet, preferably not having his serve broken, which was broken a lot already this last 2 matches.

Can’t see Fed losing to Lopez, only if he play two terrible tiebreaks as I don’t see Lopez breaking him the way Fed is serving.


jane Says:

Daniel, Stan beat Murray in straights in 2013, took Novak to 5 sets that same year, and last year barely lost to Kei. What could have happened if he won vs Kei. Definitely he could’ve reached the final if Nole played like he did vs Kei. And then could he have beaten Cilic and won the USO? Yep, possibly at least. My point is that I don’t think the surface bothers him one bit, though I agree that AO & FO are probably his best slams. I just think he can win on any surface including grass. Again, both last year and this year, Stan lost in QFs at Wimbledon but they were close, esp this year! Don’t count him out at USO until he is out, imo regardless of the draw.


jane Says:

One positive about Novak having to play all his Cincy matches in daytime heat/humidity is that he will be acclimatized to court and weather conditions should he reach the final (don’t agree he is a shoe-in for that)


Daniel Says:

Dolls leading 4-2. This fast courts makes him dangerous but even so, a return like Djoko could handle him.


RZ Says:

Margot – I read that after his match win yesterday, Feli wrote “Marriage works” on the camera. Andy is such a trendsetter! :-)


FedExpress Says:

Why is nole playing all the day session and fed all the night session?


Giles Says:

Lol. Feli won’t be muttering those words after his match with fed.


jane Says:

Kriket did you watch Dimitrov? Way worse. It happened twice in one match! 😵


Nikola Says:

@FedExpress

Because Fed have to feed the twins during the day.


FedExpress Says:

i have seen some chokes. dimis was one of the best.

i watched corias choke live on tv. poor fellow. that loss destroyed his career.


Fed Says:

ivanovic goating against serena hahaha


skeezer Says:

Dolgo closing out out Bird? Wow..


Fed Says:

marriage doesnt work for berdych somehow


Fed Says:

dolgo better u repeat this tomorrow


Matt Says:

@Charlie It’s a big time collapse from what was a membership of the ATP elite. He’s plummeting. Losing to Lopez is an awful sign, one of many at this point.

How can you see Nadal in any other way, other than a collapse?


Margot Says:

And Dolgopolov just banged, bonged, bounced and busted Berdych out of Cincy!
Woezer!


Daniel Says:

Another Masters with a surprise finalist, Chardy last week and now Dolgo. Djoko thanks!.
Can’t see Dolgo beating him, Djoko will put too many balls back and Dolgo will rush and miss.


Gypsy Gal Says:

Jock KatH thanks for your kind words,and rest assured im always on the Murray bandwagon when Nadal isnt in a tournament ;)….


FedExpress Says:

dont choke ana. dont choke


FedExpress Says:

hahahhaha serena in clown mode. i like that. but after so many choking moments i am not sure


jane Says:

I think Ana’s beaten Serena here before, or at least she’s had some good results here before


courbon Says:

I would love Ana to win but she is a Choke Princess…


FedExpress Says:

wtf is up with invanovics ball toss


FedExpress Says:

rebreak NID


FedExpress Says:

ana is mentally done


FedExpress Says:

u wonder how players like azarenka, kvitova and ivanovic won GSs


Okiegal Says:

C’mon Serena!!


Okiegal Says:

Sun is ferocious today…..


Margot Says:

Always struck by how beautiful Ana is.
Agree her tennis is flaky tho.
come on Ana.


Okiegal Says:

Exciting point!!


Colin Says:

@ Jane:

Not “shoe-in”.
It’s “shoo-in”. Look it up.

I agree with the general condemnation of ad hominem
attacks, but we could perhaps make an exception in the case of Sienna, whose obsession with Roger is becoming ineffably tedious.


Okiegal Says:

WTA…be like “You break me, I break you back”!! Lol


FedExpress Says:

some players need a brain surgery


jane Says:

thanks colin.

isn’t ineffably tedious and oxymoron, or is it just the degree to which she’s tedious ineffable? ;) just playing…

okiegal, lopez vs nadal be like that, last night!


jane Says:

*an oxymoron not *and


FedExpress Says:

dont tell me serenas mental strength got her through. it was the mental instability of her opponent.


courbon Says:

Some posters here, also need a brain surgery…


FedExpress Says:

had one. didnt work out. irreparable damage.


Jock-KatH Says:

Margo – definitely one of your best – the 5 B’s.

We need you now GG – Andy v Richard!!!


courbon Says:

Fair enough (-;


FedExpress Says:

richi plays murray tough. if he hadnt been for the chokes at wimbledon and FO i would have made him fav cause of the match up.
55-45 in favor of murray


Gypsy Gal Says:

KatH im with you,and will be watching,but i havent much energy,as i have the flu and feel dreadful….


Okiegal Says:

C’mon Andrew!! We will see if Reeeshard has enough gas in the tank to beat you!! Hope not!!


Okiegal Says:

Nice come back Serena…..Stop getting yourself in those jams…..can be a very sticky situation……


Margot Says:

Let’s Go Andy! Let’s Go!
Come on Murrt’s gals, as Jalep called us!
Dunno how much gas he has left in the tank tho.
Sorry you is poorly GG. Hate Summer colds/flu.


Tennis Vagabond Says:

Okie, I wonder if its finally the beginning of the end for Serena. She’s coming from behind more than she’s dominating this year. Its like she’s winning on pure guts.


Jock-KatH Says:

GG – really Hot Toddy (i.e. Whisky and Honey) – if less alcoholic than me – Honey and Lemon………plus 2 days of self-indulgence including sleep.


FedExpress Says:

which BH u prefer? stans or richis?


FedExpress Says:

richis FH clicking


Matt Says:

Stan’s when he’s Stanimal ala FO.


RZ Says:

@FedExpress – I don’t think Gasquet gets the same amount of power/pace on his BH that Wawrinka does.


Daniel Says:

Seems Murray wants to play another three setter


Margot Says:

Damn Andy should’ve got that break at 4-3. Let chances slip amd G gets set.
G playing well tho.


Ben Pronin Says:

It’s not just the backhand, but Stan’s forehand, when clicking, looks like it travels in a completely straight line that’s angled down. When it clips the tape I think “yeah that makes sense” just because of how the angle looks and how flat it is.

Gasquet’s backhand, imo, is overrated. What else does Gasquet have besides his backhand? His forehand is weird. His serve is like a really poor imitation of Roddick’s. And most importantly, his footwork and court position are atrocious. So his backhand looks all kinds of fancy. It’s a good shot and he’s certainly a flashy player, but give me Stan’s backhand every day and twice on Sunday!


Okiegal Says:

I was wondering if Gasquet had enough gas in the tank to beat Andy……I’ve reversed that thought….then I look up and boom baby, Andy just broke him! I don’t understand the game of tennis?? But that’s no surprise to anyone!


Margot Says:

Better from Andy, more aggressive and “ripping” his backhand as RK says.
Agree with Ben. Stan’s backhand looks much more powerful and has a wow factor about it. Richard’s is very pretty but…


Okiegal Says:

@Tennis Vagabond……Don’t know what to think about Serena. She has been winning on pure guts…..but she wants Steffi’s slam count to be broken by her. Can she gut it out to get that stat on her resume?? I really think she can. We will see. Should be interesting. Her coach spoke to Darrin Cahill about that very thing today courtside.


van orten Says:

I love controversy. I love Tennis . Us open is again wide open this year. Don’t rule out the old spices . Ruling for a fedal final with one final punch and a bit of redemption for fed after all. 18 . After that I wish rafa wins more slams and possibly ties fed at 18. Djoker deserves more slams too. In the end we are fans of all of them including muzza and the rest of the pack.


Jock-KatH Says:

Set 3 – Margo – clutching the crystals.


skeezer Says:

“I won’t mind if Novak has a losing h2h against everybody so long as he wins 18GS and 29 masters 1000″
Voice of sanity.


RZ Says:

@Margot – if it makes you feel better, I don’t have a stream for the match and need to be “off the grid” to get some work done. That usually bodes well for our guy. :-)


Travis Bickle Says:

If Murray is struggling like this against Dimitrov and Gasquet, it doesn’t bode well for his match with Fed tomorrow.


chris ford1 Says:

And despite losing to Nadal more often than not, Federer still has more slams and overall titles. So in the grand scheme of things, h2h doesn’t matter. It’s just fun
——————
Slamcount, h2h, and trying to decipher ability across generations and weak and competitive eras are all just parlor game fun.

Borg had 11 Slams and like many in his time, didn’t bother with the Australian Open. Long travel, low prestige, and prize money less than rival events staged at the same time. Borg retired at 26. 11 Slams does not define how good Borg was.

Laver was barred from Slams by going pro in his peak years. 6 years – bracketed by two Grand Slam seasons. Had he been allowed to play – how many more Holy Slams and such would he have won???

Roger had 4 years when competition was weak and before Rafa and Nole grew into full form (and Andy, too) to get 12 Slams without great struggle. A time when the level had dipped enough that prior to Fed becoming #1 ranked and grabbing his Slamcount, Leyton Hewitt was #1 ranked for 75 straight weeks and won 2 Holy Slams…


courbon Says:

It is like watching Murray from 5 years ago-whinging, complaining, talking constantly…


Jock-KatH Says:

Travis Bickle

We ain’t going there…………..


Daniel Says:

I don’t think this Murray will stand a chance agaisnt Federer. Too up and down and his serve is way to vulnerable. Everybody broke him more than twice. Plus he has to feel tired eventually.


Daniel Says:

And Murray wins. Hope we got a Fed x Murray blockbuster tomorrow night.

Fed needs to win this title if he wants to be #2 seed for USO.but i got confess that another Djoko x Murray final would be awesome as well.


Jock-KatH Says:

HE WON. Yes He is Tired so may not defeat Fed. But he won tonight. One thing at a time eh?


Margot Says:

Yay! Took the scenic rout!
Let’s Go Andy! Let’s Go!
@Kat
Didn’t look as knackered as I feared.


Jock-KatH Says:

Margo – Your grin is lighting up the night sky and crossing the border – I can see it out my window…….Yes, Yes, Up there’s!
Sleep well.


mat4 Says:

@Wilfried:

I often read Amortie et Lob. I like Goffin. He still has space to improve — but he’s a very good player, and I enjoyed the few times I watched him this year. He’s of a kind I like: the one without exceptional physic, with no big weapons but his work ethic and his intelligence.

Somebody repeated what I wrote recently — he’s a kind of Djoko for the poor. Not completely, but the philosophy is about the same, although Novak started earlier, and had the luck to work with great coaches from the beginning of his career: Pilic, Piatti, Vajda… and now, who would have thought it, Becker.


Margot Says:

@Kat
You too m’dear and watch out for those flying turds…just seen one in the night sky..;)


Jock-KatH Says:

Excuse – “Up theirs”


mat4 Says:

About today’s match (I mean Novak Wawa). On a fast court, where Djokovic serve is more efficient, the result is usually similar. Stan can’t get much rhythm, and he’s usually a little late on his best shots.

He made a few big FH errors — easy approach shots — but it was the kind of surface and the kind of day when he just doesn’t feel comfortable.

On the other side, Novak wasn’t exceptional but he didn’t have to be exceptional. He served well, was very consistent (16 UE), didn’t face a BP, and converted all his BP but one. He managed to make Stan run, defended very well, made his smashes, and played often wide on Stan’s BH to open the court.

I thought that Fed and Novak had the best FH on the run, but Stan’s is great too, so Novak avoided that side and played more IO, a shot he has improved greatly.


jalep Says:

OMG, just woke up, checked scores and realized that DOG beat Bird! Wooot!

wow, made the semi’s – gets the chance to play Nole next. So happy for Dolgo! 360 pts.

He will jump about 25 places up the ranks. Should be around #40 or something.

Was Berdych just off his game or Dolgo amazing?

Very proud of him. :)

Thought Nole was looking very smooth and in control v Stan – did see that one. Missed Murray – Gasquet. Have to watch it after work.


Adam Says:

Why do people keep saying that Roger can get the no.2 seeding back off Murray if he wins the title?
He can’t.
Even at the start of Cincinnati.
Murray leads Fed currently by 595 ranking points.
And it’s still a 12 month cycle the rankings.
As Roger is the defending champion at Cincinnati.
He lose the 1000pts he gained last year for winning the title.
So if he does win it he adds 1000 and loses 1000.
So best case for him his ranking remains unchanged.
Andy is only defending 90 points.
He’s in the semi’s so gain at least 360pts.
By my calculations if Fed wins title he will still be 775 points behind Andy
Andy currently leads Fed by 595
take 2014 points off – 1000 for Fed 90 for Andy.
Andy’s lead becomes 595 + 1000 -90 = 1505 pts.
Andy has already earned 360 points for making semi;s.
Andy leads by 1865 points.
Even if Fed wins title he can’t catch Andy.


Daniel Says:

Adam,

Murray will drop 180 pts from Beijing Monday due to extra week this year. Cincy will replace his worst 500 which is since. Right now ge only gaines 180 pra. If Fed wins Fed add 1000 and Murray adds only 180. 820 pta difference which is bigger than there current difference.


Daniel Says:

Go to the atp points breakdown. Fed’s and Murray’s point from Cincy last year already dropped.


mat4 Says:

Currently, Andy has 8840 points.

If Roger wins the title, he will have 9065.


jalep Says:

@Adam

It’s the 52 week thing. Cincinnati points dropped off already.

Let’s see if Federer gets past F-Lo first. Fed has a ways to go yet to win Cincy.


skeezer Says:

Fed with a sick BH to close out the first set. Is this the same (FLo) guy who just took down a 14 slam winner? Fed so far us makn him look very journeyman.


Daniel Says:

Lipez pressuring Federer, 0-30 second serve


Daniel Says:

Triple BP, all saved. Crucial game for Fed at 2-3


jane Says:

fed/murray and novak/pogo.
should be good cincy semis.


jalep Says:

Federer has gone all nutty troll with the net rush return, lol..

jane out the door for another 7-7. Semi Nole v pogo :)

Fed v Andy … intense.


mat4 Says:

There just was in interesting situation in JJ QF match. She waited for the public to stop talking and the umpire gave her a time violation.

JJ complained, and the umpire answered in Serbian that, while she was aware that part of the public was disturbing Jankovic, it wasn’t a reason to

P…, je n’arrive pas à me rappeler un traitre mot d’anglais.


mat4 Says:

Sorry. I’m tired, I guess.


Rishi Says:

Loved what Lopez said to Roger at the net….something about flying all around the court. And Roger replying something on the lines of “we’ve still got a few more years….”


Daniel Says:

Lopez saying “is too fast for me” was priceless.

Fed wants to break a record of shorter time spent on court to win a tournament. yesterday it was 54 min, today, 1 hour and 2 min. WTF?!


skeezer Says:

Fed cruises. He needed it. Andy won’t be so easy, and probably looking hard for revenge. Marquee matchup tomorrow!,
Fed wasn’t that fast, although he moved well. FLo looked slow.


Okiegal Says:

Fed was coming in on the serve like he’d been shot out of a cannon!! I thought he looked fast. I hope Andy has legs left to beat him. Andy has had some tough matches leading in to the semis. C’mon Andy!!


Okiegal Says:

@Adam…….Everyone on TX took you to the wood shed regarding the ranking points…….


mat4 Says:

@Okie:

“Everyone on TX took you to the wood shed regarding the ranking points”

Personally, I just wanted to help.


Okiegal Says:

@Mat4…..These mistakes need to be brought to light, that’s how gossip starts…..with untruths. I believed Adam……he seemed so knowledgeable, but apparently not! You can’t get much past the TX group, always on their toes! :) Appreciate your help!


Okiegal Says:

@Gypsy….Trying to learn something about the London Gallery…..3 hr documentary on PBS. It’s very interesting and I’m enjoying it so far! I’m gonna be so well read regarding the arts……


Okiegal Says:

@Gypsy……Sorry you are under the weather. Hope you’re not sick all week-end…… :(


viki Says:

@Gipsy, Elena and other posters

I know, Roger win over Nadal will not change the H2H. But if it happens, later on, history will be king on Roger.
When next generation will read that Roger has won 17 grand slam and have h2h 23-10 with his main rival and no federer fan to defend him. It will be deduce that Nadal is best player.
But if one more line is there that, after turning 33, Roger has beaten Nadal X number times then it will really give a different impression to future casual tennis lovers.

Otherwise, lets wait for Cincinnati open and US open. If these two goes to Djokovic favour, he will have a 80 percent of change becoming the greatest of all time.


madmax Says:

been spending the morning reading all the posts on this thread, my guilty pleasure. Really enjoying the discussion everyone – contains all the elements of the best film award:

Great direction
seriousness
lightheartedness
fact
opinion
humour
sarcasm

Does that mean everyone is compatible this morning? Surely not!

Great fun tennis.x posters!


Adam Says:

You can’t get away from the fact that if Roger wins Cincinnati his ranking stays the same.
Murrays ranking already goes up 360-90 = 270
And currently he is 595 points ahead of Roger


wilfried Says:

Roger Federer’s ranking points absolutely won’t stay the same, Adam.
On the contrary, Roger’s Cincinnati-points will be taken into account for its entirety when the new rankings will be published on monday, and make his total points raise accordingly, because his current total ranking points are only based on WTF points + 16 other tournement results (4 slams + 6 Masters + 6 remaining event resutls).
ANdy’s case is entirely different though.
The break-down of Andy’s current total ranking points (cfr. ATP site) reveals us that his current total ranking points are based on : WTF points + 4 slam results + 7 master results + 7 best remaining results. Indeed, only 7 master results, as his Cincinnati points from last year already dropped at the start of this week.
By taking into account his new Cincinnati points on monday, Andy’s total would consist of WTF points + 19 results (instead of 18 results, like the Rule book imposes in its chapter IX).
So, wHen they publish the new rankings points on monday, Andy’s new total ranking points will include the new Cincinnati points of this week, but will exclude one of his current 7 best remaining results ouside the slams and the MAsters.
Conclusion. If and only if Roger wins Cincinnati this WE, Roger will be seeded Nr. 2 in the US OPen draw.


madmax Says:

Adam,

I think you just have to accept that your calculations are wrong, though I can see what you were driving at, they are wrong.


Georgy Gal Says:

Adam, why don’t you go to ATP site ( http://www.atpworldtour.com) , click on rankings tab, choose ” singles” from the drop down box. The players and their rankings would appear. In the Roger Federer row, click on his points which is currently 8065. You will see how that 8065 is arrived at and you will find last year’s Cincy points are not included. So this year’s Cincy points will be added to 8065.


Georgy Gal Says:

Adam, if you want to be an expert on rankings, go to ATP site, click on “Rankings” tab and then select Rankings FAQ in the drop down box and it will clarify many of your doubts.


Jock-KatH Says:

Adam

Originally I also had a struggle -.

SO you said:

“Murrays ranking already goes up 360-90 = 270
And currently he is 595 points ahead of Roger”

For the moment Andy is No. 2 seed because all the points related to Cinc. have been removed.

But, Roger gets his 1,000 points back if he wins and in doing so will leap-frog Andy and be the No.2 seed again.

As Wilfred said:

Conclusion. If and only if Roger wins Cincinnati this WE, Roger will be seeded Nr. 2 in the US OPen draw.

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