Rafael Nadal Destroys Stan Wawrinka 62, 61 In Shanghai For First Top 5 Win In 14 Months!

It’s not arguable.

October 16th, 2015 at 10:11 am

No way no how.

October 16th, 2015 at 10:13 am

i’ll tell you what actually happened with stan in this match. after the first set when nadal was playing quite forcefully and stan couldn’t bully him in rallies, he basically spat the dummy. second set stan was trying to ‘one swing’ winners on every return and in the rallies, spraying the ball everywhere, rushing every serve too. it didn’t look like fatigue, but mental, like he was just ditching the match when it wasn’t going his way.

October 16th, 2015 at 10:20 am

When he had the season he had in 2013 he beat all the top 10 players,aside from Murray whom he didnt play,yet he was called overated,now people are pontificating about how its 14 months since he beat a top 5 player,ive come to the conclusion that whatever this guy does he wont win either way….

October 16th, 2015 at 10:50 am

Very relieved..rafa seems to find his mojo back..i knew he will bounce back..and watch out other guys!

October 16th, 2015 at 10:53 am

GG, the excuses made for Nadal in 2013 are pretty much the same ones being made for the Djokovic now. There are a million factors for everything. Depending on who you root for will determine which factors you will emphasize and pay attention to.

October 16th, 2015 at 11:16 am

Ben i have never called Novak overated,or said that any of his years are overated,IMO that does a diservice to him and his rivals….

October 16th, 2015 at 11:22 am

I agree, but others have. It’s the same thing for everyone.

October 16th, 2015 at 11:35 am

“Ben i have never called Novak overated,or said that any of his years are overated,IMO that does a diservice to him and his rivals….”

Id vouch for you, GG. You get it.

Spot on post, Ben.

Winners, winners, chicken dinners!

happy about those posts :D

Being an anti-Fan of Rafa, Roger, Nadal, ect, is as blinding as being a he/she “only ______ for me” die-hard fan. Nothing wrong with either…but it messes with reason and sensibility for most that find themselves there. my opinion.

The GOAT thing – I give up. It’s not going away.

October 16th, 2015 at 11:43 am

Thankyou Jalep ;)….

October 16th, 2015 at 11:46 am

lol, I’m nearly comatose, GG…meant Rafa, Roger, Nole, should add Andy if he’s going back to his level pre-injury. Kinda looks like it.

Tell me to go back to bed…!
And stop procrastinating – gots to study, GG ;)

October 16th, 2015 at 11:58 am

Jalep lol go to bed then,and ill go back to studying lol,anyway yeah when they are all on top form it certainly makes the game more intersting,NOW AS MY MUM USED TO SAY TO US WHEN WE WERE LITTLE TIME FOR BED LOL,zzzzz night night Jalep….

October 16th, 2015 at 12:05 pm

Nole 2015 is mostly luck and overrated..Cushion draws in slams… His 2011 season was steller.

October 16th, 2015 at 12:56 pm

Thang, I wish Novak has another lucky and overrated year in 2016.

October 16th, 2015 at 1:06 pm

i missed all the matches but apparently the umpire accused stan of tanking?

“According to SKY chair umpire Cedric Mourier just told Stan he wasn’t trying hard enough… (@nadalnews)”

October 16th, 2015 at 1:39 pm

ha ha, yeah, novak’s draws are so easy. slam finals versus murray, stan and fed. all slam winners.

this year novak’s played 27 matches versus top 10 players. he’s won 23 of them.

rafa’s 2010 slam draws were easier. he played non-slam winners in 2 of the finals. and at that time a 1-time slam winner in the other.

for the year, he had only 16 top 10 matches – winning 11. that’s 11 top ten wins in a year that he won 3 slams.

so please: enough with the lucky stories. novak has had to work hard to accomplish what he has. credit where it is due.

October 16th, 2015 at 1:54 pm

what…no one thinks it’s interesting that stan got accused of tanking?

October 16th, 2015 at 2:24 pm

Jane I think Mr BE was actually suffering from some sort of physical injury, which he picked up against Cilic,it was the ump that suggested he should try harder,which IMO has nothing to do with him he is there to do his job which is umpire the match,its a bit of a grey area,even Barry Cowan said they should report it to the ATP or words to that effect,i was surprised there was no thread on the topic TBH,id too would be interested on other peoples feelings on the issue….

October 16th, 2015 at 2:35 pm

who is mr. be? i take it you mean stan, but i am not aware of that nickname. i too think it warrants further discussion gypsy. the ump actually does have the right to say that to a player, because they can charge them with “Tanking”; i think it happened once with davydenko? and i did read that stan has a shoulder injury too, and he just won tokyo last week, so there’s a number of factors for why it could appear he was not trying. but a lot of people on twitter were saying he was tanking and that it was super obvious. as i noted, i didnt see any of the matches so i can’t comment. but the fact that the ump weighed in suggests it was noticeable.

October 16th, 2015 at 2:42 pm

Jane i do mean Stan,Jalep nicknamed Stan Bedroom eyes,i have a few of my own like Mr Sexy Smile which is Tsonga,Charlton Hestons love child which is Andy,Mr Unbeatable which is Novak,these will do for starters,anyway yeah i remember the Davy one,in my opinion he was carrying an injuring,he played and finished the match,whether or not he was just going through the motions was difficult to tell hmm….

October 16th, 2015 at 2:55 pm

I didnt realise the ump had that sort of power?Barry Cowan intimated it has nothing to do with the umps,i dont know?….

October 16th, 2015 at 2:57 pm

jane, I don’t see that anywhere on @nadalnews.

October 16th, 2015 at 3:03 pm

tomorrow will be novak’s 28th match against a top 10 opponent this season. i wonder if he’ll break a record this year? i think he’s got to be close to setting one. by year’s end, he’ll be at 30(+) top 10 matches, presuming he can play out the season and remaining events, because at WTF he’ll have at least a couple i should think.

daniel do you know the record re: matches vs top ten in 1 season?

October 16th, 2015 at 3:08 pm

elina that was a tweet. i quoted it exactly. so i have no idea. maybe the tweet was address to @nadalnews?

October 16th, 2015 at 3:10 pm

Jane, thanks for the FT.com interview with Djokovic link. People who like tennis and want to know more about what makes Djokovic tick shouldn’t miss it. People outside tennis may enjoy it because it is a window into the world of a champion. Djokovic is better than most star athletes in illuminating that world because he is an unusually bright articulate man who wants to express himself on tennis and the larger world around him outside his sport. Unscripted, though groomed by IMG so he can get ten’s of millions more a year by passing for an acceptable endorser of what they want to sell. Reporters may worship Federer, but they find Djokovic gives them the goods they can write on or broadcast.

Part of that interview was another revelation on the quality of his character. Nole mentioned stars of the future possibly being Coric and Kyrgios and the reporter interrupted and asked bout Nick’s naughty behavior. Which Djokovic revealed that after Kyrgios slimed Nole’s pal Wawrinka and dragged Stans GF into it – Nole went to him face to face and said he was one of the people that criticized Nick. Then told Kyrgios he made his own blunders at Nicks age and its all part of life and learning the ropes. And offered an ear anytime if anything was bothering Kyrgios or he requested advice.
And told the reporter that he likes Krygios, thinks he will be a true future star, and enjoys his practices with Nick and looks forward to time with Nick on or off court.

October 16th, 2015 at 3:24 pm

“Nole 2015 is mostly luck….”

I want this Luck. Where can one find it?

October 16th, 2015 at 3:24 pm

There’s a so-called “tall poppy syndrome” which commonly is understood as: when an individual stands (obviously) above his/her peers – it results in a level of resentment – i.e. the downgrading (in various ways)of an individual’s very superior success.

I’d like to think on TX we can manage to support our favourites in a realistic and fair way without degrading/insulting he/she whose “star” is higher . Maybe let’s aim for a bit more humour?

October 16th, 2015 at 4:31 pm

J-Kath spot on,best post all day….

October 16th, 2015 at 4:37 pm

Oh thank you GG -very kind of you – thought nobody would be interested.

October 16th, 2015 at 4:59 pm

I think in terms of Cedric Mourier talking to Stan, they don’t have the best relationship. He was the umpire during the WTF semi last year and went to the press about what happened w/ Stan and Mirka, which Roger criticized as completely unprofessional. No bedroom eyes for him ;)

I admit I couldn’t watch most of the match b/c of Stan’s poor play, but he did the opposite of tanking against Cilic. He fought tooth and nail for that win when he could have easily let that third set go. I do think he was tired, but he didn’t throw the match. Who wants to lose w/ a scoreline like that?
@J-Kath, never heard of that phrase, but it definitely happens on these boards. I prefer it when we are happy for each other when a fave does well and people don’t feel the need to attack anyone, player or fan.

October 16th, 2015 at 5:10 pm

J-Kath your welcome we are on the same page,i prefer the idea of a talking about all the players, and discussing them in different areas of achievements in the sport,and a number of all time greats,but your quite right it all falls on deaf ears for the most part….

October 16th, 2015 at 5:12 pm

Emily no tanking from BE,he was struggling physically you could see that against Cilic,i guess some people wont be completely happy unless the rest of the world are completely miserable….

October 16th, 2015 at 5:18 pm

I’m happy for Rafa on this occasion, altho’ I am always usually bias for the Swiss!…Rafa needed this quick, short, sharp victory sooo much more against a ‘big’ current player like Stan….it’s good coz we need some ‘underdogs’ to never give the usual, top-of-the-tree big guys the win!….it’s what keeps the sport true, beautiful and great!….and so a big ‘Hurray’ for Rafa the struggling underdog of late, as today he got the bone! :) H x

October 16th, 2015 at 5:20 pm

@GG, unfortunately that is often the case

October 16th, 2015 at 5:35 pm

J-Kath – In Asia and the USA it is called the “crabs in the bucket” syndrome. It applies to both the necessity of shared values and jealous resentment on a scale of sabotaging a standout person..

The crabs can fill a bucket to inches from the top, even get their legs on the rim – but none escape. If the crabs were in harmony, they could all escape. Much of the insect world and arthropod world is hard-wired to cooperative behavior. Crabs are not.

All the crabs could escape if they climbed on top of one another, most left, and the group then pulls up the ones that made up the ladder out of the bucket. Ants do that sort of thing frequently.
The biggest and strongest crabs could escape on their own in some cases, but the weaker smaller ones pull them down every time.

I guess this is a commonly used example. It crops up in business. The tallest poppy in the field is a new one I will use instead of the crab cliche.

Relevant to tennis because most fans and media audience wants a contest, not a predictable coronation of a dominant player or team each and every time. Many are tired of Serena. Many were tired of Federer as The One – then Spanish Kryptonite arrived. If Nole has two more straight years like this one, fans will be begging for his own nemesis to arrive.

At least Roger, Stan, Rafa, and Andy can beat him at times. Fed had only the perpetually hurt or recovering Haas and Nalbandian to fret about, and Safin when he wasn’t barking at squirrels.

October 16th, 2015 at 5:53 pm

“Nole 2015 is mostly luck….”

“tomorrow will be novak’s 28th match against a top 10 opponent this season.”

Hmm, something doesn’t add up here.

October 16th, 2015 at 6:45 pm

@jane:

http://secondserb.blogspot.rs/2015/07/djokovics-2015-continues-to-be-best.html

You have here the stats about top ten win, although it’s in percentage. But Novak’s 2015 is already the toughest season — in terms of avg ranking of opponents — ever.

October 16th, 2015 at 7:23 pm

I think 2016 will be another good year for Nole, lucky for him, unlucky for others LOL.

Speaking of luck reminds me of RG. In my book, Stan the man is the LOAT, luckiest player of all time. In the two slams that he won his opponent was playing well below their best, an injured Rafa at AO14, then a depleted Nole who actually had the toughest ever draw at RG 15, king of clay in quarters then a best ever Murray RG performance in a five setter semi over two days.

Seems to me that Nole was actually unlucky not to win the calendar slam.

October 16th, 2015 at 7:24 pm

Just watched the HL of the match Nadal-Wawrinka. Stan definitely changed his behaviour in the game at about 4-2.

Since I don’t believe he tanked, it could be injury, or a malaise of sort. But he played in slow motion.

October 16th, 2015 at 7:42 pm

@Peter, got to disagree w/ your LOAT theory. I believe that winning a slam is not just about who’s in the final. You do have to beat other quality players. Don’t know if you remember who his QF opponents were or what happened…oh, that’s right, he beat Novak in 5 sets in 2014 AO and Federer at the French in straight sets w/o being broken himself.

I guess for you, winning a grand slam is all about who you meet in the final, not that you might have to take out the #1 and #2 player in the world in order to win (which he did in both his slam runs and something none of the big 4 has done). What a lucky guy indeed, complete cake walk.

What is w/ all the Stan hate today? He had a bad match after winning a brutal encounter the night before. Insulting him is taking credit away from Rafa

October 16th, 2015 at 7:45 pm

Emily you just answered your own question I’m afraid.

October 16th, 2015 at 8:03 pm

“Insulting him is taking credit away from Rafa.”

Actually I think that Stan took credit away from Rafa by playing the way he did in the second set, since most of the peole think now that he tanked the match, including chair umpire, think about that. He could ask for MTO, he could retire, anything else but not what he did, so it is not the hate just discussing the match, and besides, it is not the first time that player plays three set match in masters format and comes back next day, it is actually rule and not exception. We are quick to crucify Tomic, Kyrgios and others for tanking and want them to fined, but then find excuses for our favorites, double standards, no?

October 16th, 2015 at 8:10 pm

mat4, thanks for that. i am curious though about novak setting a record in terms of the number of top 10 match opponents and the number of top 10 wins in a season. already novak has matched rafa’s best ever season for top ten wins.

here are rafa, fed and novak’s top 10 wins for their best seasons, excluding 2015.

From 2004 to 2007 when Fed was in his prime and won 11 grand slams, he beat top ten players as follows:
2004 – 16
2005 – 15
2006 – 17
2007 – 16
For a total of 64 Top 10 wins in 4 years.

During his best years of 2008, 2010, 2011 and 2013, during which he won 8 GS, Rafa beat top 10 players as follows:
2008 – 17
2010 – 11
2011 – 16
2013 – 24
For a total of 68 Top 10 wins in 4 years.

From 2011 to 2014, during which time Nole won 6 slams, he had top ten wins as follows:
2011 – 21
2012 – 24
2013 – 22
2014 – 20
For a total of 87 Top 10 wins

so even before this year, novak had the most top 10 wins in his best years.

but he’s already matched rafa’s best with 24 top 10 wins in a season, and rafa’s total matches vs top 10s, which was either 27 or 28 that year.

and he still has paris and WTF.

———————————————-

emily, just to be clease, i wasn’t expressing “stan hate” at all. i was only inquiring about his performance in that match since he lost so badly and since i’d read those comments about “not trying” from the umpire.

October 16th, 2015 at 8:11 pm

Just for the record, I said yesterday that Stan wasn’t playing that well so I’m not making excuses or trying to rationalize the loss.
Wog Boy, I’m glad you did a poll and found out that most people think he tanked. I personally have never accused anyone of tanking a match so this isn’t really an example of a double standard.
@elina, it’s a shame if you’re right

I don’t like conflict w/ other posters or player bashing of any kind, which is why I don’t partake in either, so people can draw their own conclusions about this match, and I’ll look forward to Basel. Ok, no more drama

October 16th, 2015 at 8:51 pm

@jane:

I have seen those stats somewhere, but I can’t find them now. Just did a check, but nothing came out. Usually, you have most stats about Novak on Seconserb or heavytopspin, but this time, I guess that I saw that particular stat on Yolita’s thread about Novak.

October 16th, 2015 at 9:12 pm

Emily,
I didn’t do any poll, I read the posts on TX and listened to chair umpire (don’t you think he is more qualified than you or me to judge the situation on the court) and it wasn’t rocket science to conclude what is some other people opinion, so need to be sarcastic, it is just discussion, nothing more and nothing less. Don’t forget, you are the one that used “hate” word since some of the posters had opinion that you disliked and disagreed with.

October 16th, 2015 at 9:13 pm

^^ “so no need to be sarcastic” should say

October 16th, 2015 at 9:14 pm

But you can always check on tennisabstract:

Rafa was 24-5 in 2013, 17-6 in 2008,

Novak is 23-4 so far in 2015, and if he wins this tomorrow, he will join Rafa with most top ten wins in a year. In the last 52 weeks, btw, he’s at 30-4. It could be a record of its own.

October 16th, 2015 at 9:17 pm

mat4, as you can see from my notes above, novak has already had a year with 24 top 10 wins in 2012. in fact he may have had 2 years already. a friend of mine said he compiled this list from wikipedia of most top 10 wins in a season:

1. Djokovic, 24, 2012
1. Djokovic, 24, 2013 (i had counted 22)
1. Nadal, 24, 2013
4. Djokovic, 23, 2015 current
5. Djokovic, 21, 2011
6. Federer, 19, 2006
6. Djokovic, 19, 2014
8. Federer, 18, 2004

that means novak is likely to set a new record for top 10 match wins this year, assuming he wins 2 more top 10 matches.

but i am curious about even matches facing top 10s, i.e., if he’ll set a record for that too.

October 16th, 2015 at 9:58 pm

I have those numbers for Novak (and all the matches’ results):

last 52: 30-4,
2015 so far: 23-4,
2014: 19-5
2013: 24-6
2012: 21-4

Now, Fed’s best result is 19-4 in 2006, and 18-0 in 2004 is outstanding.

Rafa’s best is 24-5 in 2013.

Career for the three players (there is a result on the wiki page, but I checked on tennisabstract); I also added a “best period”:

Roger: 192-101 (66%) (2003-2007: 78-15 (84%))
Novak: 150-79 (66%) (since 2011: 111-29 (79%))
Rafa: 133-68 (66%) (from 2008-2013: 93-40 (70%))

October 16th, 2015 at 10:20 pm

thanks mat4. apparently both wikipedia and the ATP show 24 top ten wins for 2012 for novak. amazing how many top 10s he’s faced since 2011.

there’s also this:

Titles won by beating at least one Top 10 player:
Djokovic 47/56 = 84%
Federer 63/87 = 72.4%
Murray 25/35 = 71.4%
Nadal 45/67 = 67%

October 16th, 2015 at 10:46 pm

@emily

Stan has been extremely lucky in both his slam wins. The quarterfinals win over Nole was a close five setter where Stan could have easily lost, the qtr over fed? Well is fed even good on slow surfaces these days??

Ao2014, if you let nadal and Stan replay that match 10 times, do you really think Stan would have won more often than not? NO.

Same goes with RG 2015. Let Nole and Stan play against each other 10 times, chances are Stan would lose 6,7,8 times out of 10.

The fact that in both instances he played his best tennis, and the opponent, injury/tired or not, was having one of their worst days, shows Stan has won by chance. You rarely see this in some other sports, eg. NBA when the best team nearly always wins, given they have to perform well over 7 separate days, not 1.

It is astounding that Stan has achieved nearly as much as Murray, while Murray has been a much better player for almost their entire careers. The best explaination is Stan is a hell of a lot luckier comparing these two, while Murray peaked most often he ran into in form big 3s, while Stan peaked he ran into out of form big 3s.

October 16th, 2015 at 11:16 pm

@emily

And tbh, Nole deserves to win RG a lot more than Stan does given their performance there over the years. PPL feel Nole has been unlucky in this regard, the flip side of which Stan has just been luckier.

Swap Nole and Stans RG draw, and I bet Nole would have won it easily.

October 16th, 2015 at 11:27 pm

Another interesting stat could be the number of top 5 wins:

Roger: 11-0 in 2004, 10-4 in 2010; career: 93-65; 9.3 per year;
Novak: 13, twice (2011: 13-3, 13-8 in 2012); career: 69-55, 12.4 per year;
Rafa: 12-5 in 2013; career: 68-43; 8.5 per year.

October 16th, 2015 at 11:39 pm

mat4, and all this started because novak was called “lucky.”

Career Finals W/L vs. Top 5:
Djokovic 29-21
Federer 27-29
Nadal 27-22

Career Finals W/L vs. Top 10:
Djokovic 37-23
Federer 31-23
Nadal 36-25

October 16th, 2015 at 11:45 pm

As we can see, Novak had a very easy path so far in his career — it could be the “weak era” effect.

And he was extremely lucky: he was in Federer’s half of the draw on grass and hard, how many times?, 15 in a row?

He won three slams finals against Federer, three against Nadal, three against Murray — when they were ranked 1,2 or 3 in the world. And in his first slam win, he had to beat the no 1 in the semi.

He beat two members of the “fab four”, to win a slam, three times, and once more but without winning the title. Of his 8 lost finals, he lost 4 to Rafa, 2 to Murray, 1 to Federer.

So much about luck…

October 17th, 2015 at 12:10 am

touche mat4, and precisely.

October 17th, 2015 at 12:17 am

one last one, for the road. ;) i think it’s from pre-bejing but i am not sure:

Wins inside Big Four:
Djokovic 62
Nadal 61
Federer 45
Murray 26

October 17th, 2015 at 12:29 am

Wog Boy,

Once Kyrgios and Tomic have produced the kind of indecent tennis that clobbers everything in its path — twice — I doubt many will have any qualms with their petulance, even though I must say, the Aussie kids are such brats its hard to like anything about them (for now; although one gets the sense Kyrgios is just trying real hard to be “divergent”).

By the way, Wawrinka v.Enlightened has always been inconsistent in smaller tournaments and even he himself has confessed he should not ever be compared to the big-4 due to this. If it helps him prime better for the grand slams, I’m all for it. For the sake of a decent competitor to Djokovic (God bless Federer and that genius’ ability to harry potter the tennis racquet) in 2016 grand slams, we need Stan.

October 17th, 2015 at 1:10 am

Gee, I feel a need to defend Stan having just read some of peter’s dialogue. Mercy and forgiveness requested ahead of the sermon.

Peter, you make fantastic points, no doubt inspired by the law of large numbers, however, even the law of large numbers cannot account for fat or weird tails in a distribution (as we know from the capital markets for example, where experience of losses is more akin to conflagration risk in insurance). Statistics and drawing inferences from chance studies has its limitations (we also know this given how much insurance companies, having in their employ some of the most brilliant statisticians, lose when there is a calamity they knew well enough to insure against).

Coming back to Stan’s grand slam wins. I’d first like to address his matches against Djokovic. From 2013-2015, they’ve met 5 times, 3 for Novak, 2 for Stan. More interestingly, all matches have gone down to the wire, except for Stan’s demolition job in FO2015. When Novak beat Stan in AUS2013 12-10 in the 5th, one could have said he was lucky, right? And the USO2014 match, 6-4 in the 5th? Anyone watching that match knew that Djokovic narrowly escaped that one, Stan slowly fading away. The only decisive match really was this year’s FO.

And that’s where the law of large numbers reveals its limitations. Just like in the NBA when the Nash-Stoudemire Suns had those heart-wrenching loses to the Spurs year-after-year: a simple matchup problem. The Suns would destroy the Spurs during regular season, but yet come up short during longer, more focused play. We may not see Wawrinka as being a player that benefits from a tough, long duel, but I’d take Severin Luthi’s opinion over the pundits when he said during the Davis cup that they’re not worried about Stan, he simply gets stronger as the duel goes on and he believes he can win.

To even suggest luck is hubris. A better point would be that Stan’s game matches up pretty damn well against the variegated talents of tennis’ top players when it comes to the big stage. If a top player gets nervous or is tired, why should the other guy be to blame? After all, he got to the final going through the very same tournament. No, tennis is ruthless capitalism: winner takes all, and the loser (I’m looking at you Guillermo Coria in FO2004), loses. The sample means of all possible outcomes that could have been is useful on average, in lesser tournaments and players whose abilities/games are predictable, but notice how it is useless when trying to describe a player of say, Kyrgios’ ability when matched up in a grand slam.

October 17th, 2015 at 1:35 am

Peter im afraid the world doesnt quite work like that,ifs,buts,wouldves,couldves,shouldves mean doodle squat in the real world,anything can happen on any given given,Stan was just better than Novak on both of those occasions pure and simple….

October 17th, 2015 at 2:10 am

Ulysses great post summed up perfectly….

October 17th, 2015 at 2:11 am

mat4, just would like to reiterate that your post at 12:10 summed it up perfectly too.

October 17th, 2015 at 2:39 am

ulysses:
” From 2013-2015, they’ve met 5 times, 3 for Novak, 2 for Stan. More interestingly, all matches have gone down to the wire, except for Stan’s demolition job in FO2015.”

they’ve met 9 times between 2013-15, 7-2 for novak. i realize you are maybe referring to slam matches, but i wanted to clarify.

and also i don’t know if you can call a 4 set slam match a “demolition job” with all 6-4/one 6-3 sets.

not am i sure you can call a bagel in the 5th set at this year’s AO “going to the wire.”

definitely the 2013 and 14 AO matches went to the wire and beyond and were excellent matches.

October 17th, 2015 at 2:45 am

*nor not “not”

and it was USO 13 that novak and stan played.

October 17th, 2015 at 2:47 am

I was done w/ the drama today, but just had to post a thanks @Ulysses for expressing so well what I wish I could and presenting this informed and interesting explanation of why Stan “deserves” his two slams (a word I’m taking from Peter since he does not believe that Mr BE is the deserving winner)

Thanks @GG too for so often being on the same wavelength, I’m starting to think maybe some people just got a little jealous about these new complimentary nicknames. Not all slam winners have bedroom eyes ;)

October 17th, 2015 at 2:50 am

Ulysses – I also felt peeved at Peter’s broad strokes versus Stan – goodness Stan really really won the matches – his 2 GS’s were stunning – Wow what power – that said I do have a couple of niggles with part of your “thesis” but what the heck, you’ve put the marker down for STan – where it belongs.

Cheers to Emily.

October 17th, 2015 at 4:47 am

Demolition job? A 4 set victory where the opponent was visibly tired after playing for the third day in succession? Not to take anything from Stan, he deserved the win, produced an amazing match on that day where everything fell in place for him but, a demolition job is what Nole did to Cilic in the semis of the USO this year.

October 17th, 2015 at 5:26 am

Demoliton job? The dude got carried away with his writing , though I agree, demoliton job was fifth set of AO 2015 and the and WTF 2014 and all 20 wins out of 24 matches they played against each other.

October 17th, 2015 at 5:59 am

@WB, Danica, jane:

To quote J-Kath — I am very thankful for that expression — the “tall poppy syndrome” is indeed an endemic disease.

October 17th, 2015 at 6:36 am

Cheers Mat4.

October 17th, 2015 at 6:50 am

mat4, j-kath, that is the perfect expression.

btw, mat4, just saw this tweet:

Greg Sharko ‏@SharkoTennis 5m5 minutes ago
3rd time in 4 yrs @DjokerNole has 24 wins vs Top 10 on @ATPWorldTour:
2015: 24-4
2013: 24-6
2012: 24-10

October 17th, 2015 at 9:30 am

ahh thanks for pointing those out Jane. Yes I meant they met 5 times in grand slams.

The reason I called this year’s RG final a demolition job is simply because for long stretches of that match, Stan was almost unplayable. He won so many rallies one expected Djoko to win. The scoreline was kept close because of Novak’s genius and fight, but it a few points here and there was the difference between routs in the 2nd and 3rd sets.

And in AO2015, I agree, I retract my classification of that match as going “down to the wire.” Still, if we recall that match, both players were nervous until the 4th set, and played great tennis. The 5th set may as well have not happened.

October 17th, 2015 at 9:45 am

chrisford1, you’re welcome for the link.

i understand what you were refuting, ulysses: the luck argument. it’s the same reason i took such offense with thang’s comment about novak’s 2015 season, which i think is even more resoundingly ridiculous to call “lucky”.

October 17th, 2015 at 9:52 am

Wog Boy / Danica,

Those are great points about the demolition description and perhaps the RG final because of how sensational it was, is jaundicing my recall of the AO2015 match. But the latter was such a seesaw nervy battle (I take back my earlier statement that 4th set was great; no, the entire match wasn’t great by professional standards) that by the end, no one knew quite what to make of the match. That said, Djoko was seemingly in bagel mood all tournament long since if I remember, he did the same to Murray in the final?

Anyway, some match stats from both matches:

RG2015 Final
Points Won: Wawrinka (137) d. Novak (117)
Winners/Unf: 60/45 d. 30/41

AO2015 Final
Points Won: Novak (154) d. Wawrinka (139)
Points Won Set 5: Novak (30) d. Wawrinka (17).
Winners/Unf: 27/49 d. 42/69

Once again, it’s hard to classify the latter as being a demolition seeing as how low-quality/nervy the tennis was overall.

October 17th, 2015 at 10:18 am

Novak is an amazing player that has won his GS and other titles through damn hard work and perceverance,but i think the point is what Ulysses was making was to take credit away from other players that won GS or titles is doing him a complete diservice,and is unfair on Stan or any other player that beats him,its a silly argument….

October 17th, 2015 at 11:36 am

Jane i will reiterate the above post to you too and use the exact same standard for Novak,there was no luck involved in Noles achievements either,its as i say hard work,guts and determination is what got him the success hes had/having….

October 17th, 2015 at 11:41 am

Luck is involved in every single facet of life! #Fact

October 17th, 2015 at 11:57 am

There’s always a little luck involved.

October 17th, 2015 at 11:57 am

Ben i dont know personally,the thing is its annoying when posters use this as a way of taking away credit from an opponents win,its completely unfair and it makes no sense anyway….

October 17th, 2015 at 12:04 pm

Look Novak fans you can go on all you want..

No one (SANE) is saying Novak isn’t an AMAZING tennis player, and I personally do NOT think it’s quite like Fed’s weak era situation, not yet anyway.
Wawrinka at the RG disproves that for a start (although that might confirm things another way)
But you have got to admit that he doesn’t have any real opposition at the moment and he is simply making hay while the sun shines.
And it’s been shining for him for quite some time now!
But it wont last forver
Tjese things never do

October 17th, 2015 at 12:12 pm

*these things
oh lalala

October 17th, 2015 at 12:13 pm

“you have got to admit that he doesn’t have any real opposition at the moment”

——————-

The opposition is real. Novak is unreal.

October 17th, 2015 at 12:48 pm

Oh yeah Mat4

And Thanks SO MUCH for that objective opinion…

October 17th, 2015 at 1:00 pm

CDP:

You’re welcome. At least you know it’s objective. Did you figured it out by yourself?

October 17th, 2015 at 1:21 pm

Wow, if you are trying to be clever, I think it’s safe to say you’re failing…
Again :)

October 17th, 2015 at 1:29 pm

Oh, my dear CDP, please don’t think… You could hurt yourself…

October 17th, 2015 at 1:36 pm

Emily@2.50am your welcome,and you a very nice lady,and a vert sweet Stan fan err sorry Mr BE fan lol ;)….

J-Kath@4.47am great post,and you too are a very sweet Murray fan err sorry Charlton Hestons Love
Child lol ;)….

I love both of your posts ;)….

October 17th, 2015 at 1:46 pm

Mat4 and CDP LOL,seconds out round 20 ding a ling….

October 17th, 2015 at 1:47 pm

Gypsy-Girl:
I am delighted to recline in the warm glow of your approval – but don’t know which of my forgettable ponderings brought me to such acclaim

– seriously, do appreciate your comments – very kind of you and thank you.

October 17th, 2015 at 3:47 pm

J-Kath your welcome,and i hope Emily sticks around shes a great poster,so looking forward to the DC,no offence to his fans,but its a bit like Novak overkill ATM, tennis-x needs a different topic of conversation….

October 17th, 2015 at 4:33 pm

Gypsy gal, I’ve been here this long so I can’t leave now ;) I was just frustrated by what people were saying yesterday, but it turns out there are always a few other posters who get where you’re coming from. It’s hard not being part of what I might call specific player armies (not that there’s anything wrong w/ that), but I like discussing tennis w/ other fans. Just prefer to avoid the bickering and bad mouthing that shows up sometimes

October 17th, 2015 at 6:51 pm