2015 ATP Finals London Seedings: Novak Djokovic, Andy Murray Will Be In Separate Groups

Clearly Djokovic is the player to beat. After that, just like last year, his biggest challengers will likely be Federer and Wawrinka. Murray has never made the final of the masters, he may have a chance of making the final, but that would require a bit of luck. The big question going forward, is who else can start challenging these top four players, and specifically Djokovic? Berdych played a tight match with Djokovic in Paris and Nishikori has challenged him in the past, but it doesn’t look like anyone but Federer or Wawrinka in this field has the game to do it. At least not at the moment.

November 9th, 2015 at 10:23 am

I think playing in the Davis Cup final is a distraction for Murray. It wouldn’t surprise me if he doesn’t get out of the round robin. He will give his best for sure. The extra rest would help him prepare better for the davis cup finals.

November 9th, 2015 at 10:49 am

As thrilled as I would be for Andy to win it (though I’d prefer he and team GB win Davis Cup if it’s an either/or situation) or for Fed to win another time, I hope Novak wins. After the amazing season he’s had, he deserves to end the year in style.

November 9th, 2015 at 10:55 am

I totally Agree. I think the surface at the 02 suits Nole more. He seemed uncomfortable with the Paris surface for most of the week.

November 9th, 2015 at 11:02 am

Dave, did you see this?
https://www.perfect-tennis.com/tennis-court-surfaces-and-court-speeds/

I found it very interesting.

November 9th, 2015 at 11:05 am

I did actually see it before. It seems to me that Paris plays slower than the 02 court in London. It is rated as faster according the the charts on that article. I would say it’s slower though. It is really hard to measure the speed accurately. Just watching the matches give us an idea each year. It was a different surface this year as well in Paris.

November 9th, 2015 at 11:17 am

Margot-thanx for the link-very interesting indeed.
( by the way, that lock of hair is in the post-I did not know right adress so I just put :Margot, Wales…it should be OK )

Dave- I think you are absolutely right.While we like to catetegorized players in simplictic terms-Fed like fast, Novak like slow ), I think Novak prefers medium speed courts the most. And as his game is getting more offensive over last two years ( learning from Fed how to play well in to long age ) and with his serve becoming real weapon he will lake more and more faster surfaces…

QUESTION to Nadal, Murray and Andy fans:
What would be a dream ( easiest! )WTF group for you favorite?
For me, and assume most Novak fans would be:
Wawrinka ( or Federer? Tough choice… ),
Bedrych
Ferrer

November 9th, 2015 at 11:58 am

@Courbon
Ta for that. I am very well known in this tiny country, so that’ll do fine…;)
I’d fancy Andy’s chances against “Bedrych” any day. He’s way passed his prime….
However, like someone else on here, I’d be very surprised if Andy gets out of his group. He’s already practising on clay.
@Dave
I was more interested in the suggestion that surfaces can be manipulated to get a certain result. This raises conspiracy theory to a whole new level. I mean, we all remember the “blue clay” controversy regarding Madrid, which unravelled in front of our eyes. However, changes can be made far more subtlely.

November 9th, 2015 at 12:07 pm

Well Margot dear,

He better f**ing win the DC and that means just about kill himself if he has to!
Can you IMAGINE if he doesn’t after all of this?!
I think he will however.
Oh I mean, I think GREAT BRITAIN will win
;0)

November 9th, 2015 at 12:21 pm

`I was more interested in the suggestion that surfaces can be manipulated to get a certain result.’

Then why haven’t they speed up more surfaces for Fed?
Everything’s too slow now and needs to sped up a bit now.
If the AO is now faster these last couple of years that’s good but more and they never should have slowed Paris down like that
Although Novak also won it on the fast court too.

November 9th, 2015 at 12:27 pm

*sped up

November 9th, 2015 at 12:30 pm

`Novak Djokovic, Andy Murray Will Be In Separate Groups’

Thank goodness for that!
Novak can wait till next year, he’s had enough fun with Andy this year anyway :)

November 9th, 2015 at 12:38 pm

Are you saying they won’t meet in the semis or finals?

November 9th, 2015 at 12:44 pm

I think it was 2008 when Andy beat Roger in the World Tour Finals. To be fair, Fed was not fully fit I think. Andy had a long battle for his win, and was tired in the next round, losing to Davydenko. Andy was criticised in some quarters for tryng so hard against Roger, as he (Andy) had already qualified for the semis. I hope I’ve got that right.

Anyway, the thing is, Andy loves to compete, and he wasn’t going to pass up the chance of a win over Roger. So, I can’t see him losing early on account of lack of effort, for Davis Cup reasons. I won’t mind too much if he exits early, but I don’t think it’ll be deliberate

November 9th, 2015 at 1:11 pm

Well, yes.
He never really seemed to care about the WTF before.
So he is certainly not going to start now with a historical DC coming up rapidly.

November 9th, 2015 at 1:12 pm

No, he won’t purposely bomb, but he won’t leave it all out there on the court either.
It’s an 80% job at best and see how it all plays out.
He is preparing for one thing now (and for the past few months really)
And one thing only.

November 9th, 2015 at 1:14 pm

@CDP
Being cynical I suspect it’s all to do with making money and I presume longer matches make more money?
I’m sure Andy wont bomb on purpose but I’m equally sure he won’t break his back, to coin a phrase, either.

November 9th, 2015 at 1:36 pm

Yes, agree CDP @ 1.14pm

November 9th, 2015 at 1:36 pm

Margo – on the “perfect-tennis” link – sorri if I “joked” – it was a hesitation on my part re. Jonathan – nice guy yes – but runs the Fed. popularity thread and I couldn’t quite see it as a complete academic assessment. Maybe I should have read it more closely.

November 9th, 2015 at 1:45 pm

Where does this idea that Murray never cared about WTF come from?

I agree with Colin. Murray is too competitive to not play hard, especially against the top players.

November 9th, 2015 at 1:46 pm

Margot-I know.It’s-You, Charlotte Church, couple of blokes and 6 million sheep’s…easy for postman.

November 9th, 2015 at 2:15 pm

I cant be bothered with another pointless debate with you Pronin
Colin used the 08 as an example, well I rest my case with every other one since then, bar one, where he has blown hard rather than played hard!
Feel free to believe what you want however….

November 9th, 2015 at 2:33 pm

`I’m sure Andy wont bomb on purpose but I’m equally sure he won’t break his back, to coin a phrase’

Well, as I said.
But as you said I would be shocked if he got out of the group stages after his craptastic shanking on basically the exact same surface when under a bit of pressure.
Well quite a lot but still.
He was unbelievably poor against an opponent where only the best will do.
And this Idea that its okay for him to do this because he was trying to be aggressive doesn’t wash with me.
He knows fine well how to be aggressive, its like we’ve gone back to 2009 or something.
I hate it but then everything makes me aggressive so perhaps I’m not the most sympathetic to this mindset. Again I see him doing very well at DC indeed.

November 9th, 2015 at 2:41 pm

cdp I’d recommend against it.

I do expect Roger to be placed in Andy’s half.

Nadal and Stan in Novak’s half.

The last three don’t really matter much but if I had to guess, I’d say a banged up Nishikori in Andy’s half.

So:

Andy
Roger
Nishikori
Ferrer

Novak
Stan
Nadal
Berdych

November 9th, 2015 at 2:44 pm

J-Kath

That exactly what I think about anything from Tenngrand…Ricky Dimon runs Rafa popularity sites. Not exactly an unbiased tennis journo.

But seedings seems a strajghtforward topic for him.

November 9th, 2015 at 2:51 pm

Margot, interesting link.

“My advice – judge with what you see with your eyes, not what the ITF, ATP or tournaments tell you about the court surface.”

That sounds about right. Plus, what the players say after playing on it.

November 9th, 2015 at 3:00 pm

elina,

You are basically assuming Nike is making the draw to make it as easy for Federer as possible. Sadly, you are probably right and I think this is exactly how the draw will look.

Looking from the Federer’s prospective:
1st seed – choices are Novak or Andy – who do you think Fed prefers?
3rd seed – choices are Nadal or Nishikori – who do you think Fed prefers?
4th seed – choices are Berdych and Ferrer – Berdych could beat Fed on a hard court, Ferrer has proven to be Fed’s pigeon.

So, if Nike is making the draw for its ‘sacred cow’ the draw will look EXACTLY as elina suggested above. We will find out in a couple of days…

November 9th, 2015 at 3:17 pm

In 6 appearances, Murray has reached 3 semifinals. He lost to Davydenko after a long match. He lost to Nadal in an epic. And he lost to Federer, which isn’t unusual. Another time he went 2-1 in RR play and barely missed the semis. Another time he pulled out after 1 match. And last year he was knackered after an insane fall season.

But that same fall season proves how much Murray values the WTF. Why kill yourself to lay an egg, anyway? Oh that’s right, because he cares about the event.

Nothing he’s ever said or done proves otherwise. Only this year where he has a chance at DC is WTF taking a back seat. But it’s largely for health reasons.

November 9th, 2015 at 3:28 pm

Ben – Yes – largely for 100% fitness reasons.

November 9th, 2015 at 3:45 pm

Really hope you are wrong, Travis Bickle – but I’m too cynical to argue with that.

I like this group: Novak, Federer, Nadal, Ferrer

That way, Novak gets a chance to play both Federer and Nadal at least x1 each. Was hoping for a Rafole in Paris but have high hopes for it at WTF — Nole evens h2h with Rafa the next time they meet. Pulls ahead of Federer.

November 9th, 2015 at 3:54 pm

@Courbon @ 11.58 – You asked:

Who would be my favourite draw for Andy @ WTF:

Well – firstly
Nole is (1) so:

Andy as (2):
Berdych
Ferrer
Nishikori

My choice reveals I consider Federer, Stan and Nadal stronger.

I dream on.

November 9th, 2015 at 4:07 pm

Conspiracy theories aside, what would be considered the most even groups?

Here’s my guess, kinda? I think it’s fair to say the top 5 are all formidable so one group is bound to be unfair on paper. I’m also assuming Nishikori’s injuries continue to plague him and he could also be rusty. Ferrer and Berdych, while pigeons, at least showed some promising form the last few weeks.

Djokovic
Wawrinka
Ferrer
Berdych

Murray
Federer
Nadal
Nishikori

November 9th, 2015 at 4:18 pm

Yeah…Federer and Stan can’t be in the same group apparently, per what I read on that TG link you posted, J-Kath.

Andy, Stan, Berdych, Nishikori, still isn’t too bad for Andy. The only match he lost v Kei was last year — a RR match at the WTF. Positive h2h with all of them.

Very fair groups, Ben. But all combinations do favor Nole.

November 9th, 2015 at 4:25 pm

It depends on what you consider fair, too. I mean, is it most fair to have equal balance or would it be more fair to give Djokovic the toughest possible group? Because then you put 2 of Stan/Fed/Nadal in his group.

I was going for balance. So Ferrer/Nishikori/Berdych are strength 1. Fed/Stan/Nadal/Murray are strength 2ish. And Djokovic is strength 3. So basically 7 points per group.

November 9th, 2015 at 4:32 pm

@BP,

Make sense in general, except that Murray’s strength will be circumstantially modified for this tournament – so he will be strength 0.5 next week, meaning (for instance) if he played Ferrer (strength 1) Murray would lose to save his energy and minimize the risk of injury.

My strength scale for London (refined from BP’s) is as follows:
0.5 (Murray)
1.0 (Ferrer/Nishikori/Berdych)
2.0 (Federer/Nadal)
2.5 (Stanislas)
3.5 (Novak)

However, all this may be a moot point since the draw will likely look like elina predicted at 2:44pm above…

November 9th, 2015 at 4:56 pm

J_Kath:Interesting choice.Considering last metting between Andy and Fed, I though you would go with Wava…well, we will now in 2 days.

November 9th, 2015 at 4:59 pm

J Kath-
Excuse my previous post_I have not read yours properly.It’s wrong.You have to have
Fed or Wavrinka
Nadal or Berdych
Ferrer or Nikishori
in your group,
.Try again (-:

November 9th, 2015 at 5:04 pm

Ah well, Courbon, —as you say, we’ll know soon. I’m not expecting Andy to GO for it – if he takes 400 points OK…and then lives up to expectations UK-wide re DC. – PS God help him if he doesn’t win DC for GB – he’ll never be forgiven – or will he forgive himself.

Ugh – am off to bed (when I finish my glass of wine).
Cheers
K

November 9th, 2015 at 5:16 pm

This is from the link J-Kath posted; the Nadal fansite, Ricky Dimon writes:
Draw format
1) Novak Djokovic – in pool A
2) Andy Murray – in pool B
3) Roger Federer – cannot be with Wawrinka
4) Stan Wawrinka – cannot be with Federer
5) Rafael Nadal – cannot be with Berdych
6) Tomas Berdych – cannot be with Nadal
7) David Ferrer – cannot be with Nishikori
8) Kei Nishikori – cannot be with Ferrer

November 9th, 2015 at 5:17 pm

In that case I would prefer Nole/Roger/Rafa/David ..I just hope I won’t regret it:)

November 9th, 2015 at 5:23 pm

What some people here are saying is that Federer will get preferential treatment and land in Murray’s group. We don’t know that, for certain. It should be as you say WB, Nole/Rog/Raf/David.

But, it doesn’t matter, imo, for Nole. He’s in command, #1 mode.

This has to be a stressful end to 2015 for Andy fans, though.

November 9th, 2015 at 5:52 pm

As usual since 2007, Djokovic is finishing up the year as one of, if not THE youngest, players in the Top 10. This year, Kei returns to the WTF, with Nole the 2nd youngest player.
Other years, we have seen Raonic, Dimitrov there for a little while as well, and Delpo for a longer time periods.

This is mentioned to show the level of talent Federer, Nadal, Djokovic, and yes, Andy has – is not usual.
We cannot count on another Nadal or “even Andy” (Sorry!! in NextGEN.
19 for Rafa, 20 for Nole, 21 for Murray and Fed. Ages when they made Top 5 and except for blips, haven’t left it.
NEXTGEN?? None have even come up, age 18-23, and stuck in the Top 10 for long.

November 9th, 2015 at 6:09 pm

elina,

Ferrer and Nishikori can’t be in the same group as one is 7 and the other 8, so they will be split per group. Nadal in one, Berdych in the other, Stan and Fed and Djoko and Murray. These are the pair that won’t play each other for sure in round robin.

An “easy” deaw for Fed would be Murray, Berdych and Ferrer. Although rught now on a faster court with the form Berdych showed versus Djoko (the one who pushed him the most last 3 tourneys) I guess Nadal would be easier. It will be first match, not hometown final as Basel so Fed will be more relaxed.

November 9th, 2015 at 6:18 pm

Thanks Daniel. Not a big difference. Let’s go with:

Andy
Roger
Nishikori
Berdych

Novak
Stan
Nadal
Ferrer

November 9th, 2015 at 6:29 pm

Remember Top 10 predictions for this year?

http://www.tennis-x.com/xblog/2014-12-26/17876.php

I did miserably. Must stop reading so much and get a top spin.

Poor Gasquet. Nobody picked him. Most picked Dimitrov LOL.

Most common score was 7/10. About a dozen 8/10s.

And the winner is…..

Colin09 with an amazing 9/10. He missed Gasquet like everyone else and had Dimitrov.

Well done Colin09!!!!

November 9th, 2015 at 7:07 pm

It’s funny from this perspective to read some predictions and opinions….and the winner is, who else but…Cilic fan:)

November 9th, 2015 at 7:45 pm

CF1, here’s one, maybe.

This kid could make a WTF by 2019 @ age 19. Incredible court coverage, depth of shots bossing the 43 shot rally for just 15. He’s at the far end of the court. Kid serving is older and ranked in the 200’s.

http://www.atpworldtour.com/en/players/felix-auger-aliassime/ag37/overview

I like Aliassime even more than Taylor Fritz or Stefano Tsitsipas.

November 9th, 2015 at 8:01 pm

Auf…this is the 43 shot rally

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjVKCwq_YSk

November 9th, 2015 at 8:08 pm

jalep, agreed, I noticed FAA earlier this year,

Lots of potential and a great attitude. Where has Canada dome up with all these great players over the last 4-5 years.

Peliwo is another who had showed great potential winning two junior slams in a year but at 21 and still 471 in the world, is slow to do well professionally.

November 9th, 2015 at 9:07 pm

The Canadian girls look promising too, elina.

http://www.wtatennis.com/singles-rankings. Input Canada or whatever country — and search. Czech Republic’s stock is rising too.

several in each year 1997-1999, a couple 2000

November 9th, 2015 at 9:40 pm

Yes am familiar with a couple of them.

November 9th, 2015 at 9:54 pm

Really bored, I think, elina. Trying to look into the future of tennis and what do I find?

Spain is hurting for young male tennis talent – Spanish girls…lotsa them.

http://www.atpworldtour.com/en/rankings/singles?rankDate=2015-11-09&countryCode=ESP

November 9th, 2015 at 9:58 pm

ATP future for France is looking as good as ever. France #1! Only a matter of time.

November 9th, 2015 at 10:16 pm

I know what you mean jalep. At least you’re not the one who found the winner of this year’s year end Top 10 prediction contest.

November 9th, 2015 at 10:21 pm

@jalep
Not “stressful” at all. I have no expectation regarding WTF and high expectation re DC. I only hope GB wins for Andy’s sake as he seems to have invested so much in it.
Would not be too bothered otherwise.
@chris
Lol! For a mo. I thought you’d invented a wonderful new hashtag: #yesAndy! Then you went and spoilt it.
@courbon
Hair arrived safe and sound and I am verrrrry busy…

November 10th, 2015 at 1:55 am

I pretty much agree with most of the comments above regarding Andy being a competitor through and through regardless of DC (he just can’t suppress that desire to win). If he gets Berdych, for example, there’s no way on earth he’s going to not give 100% to beat him or make (another) statement. I’ve never given much credence to the WTFs so all I’m hoping is that he gets 2 RR wins, which I think will lock up the #2 for next year?

Every time he reaffirms how important DC is to him, I get more nervous on his behalf. Also, you just know that the schadenfreude junkies are going to swarm around like vultures waiting to celebrate if he fails. It’s going to be a nerve jangling experience for many reasons.

November 10th, 2015 at 3:10 am

I think they will slide Federer into Andy’s half because they know what we all know that Andy won’t be there at the final — it will be Nole v Roger and this year it should take place.

November 10th, 2015 at 4:09 am

JK,

Thanks for the link about Nole, though I think the author got little bit carried away with Nole’s amazing results this year.

November 10th, 2015 at 4:46 am

U are welcome Wog Boy. PS: Sent you comment re. an author on another link – think it is probably gone now….

November 10th, 2015 at 5:48 am

I think if Andy gets to the semis he will probably give it a good go as there is only one more afterwards, but remember everyone, that the arch competitor Fed had an ‘injury’ or whatever last year and dropped OUT of the WTF at the last minute so it is a VERY important tournament for them to win.
There will be other WTF and it’s just a glorified exho anyway.
Andy will not kill himself to get to the semis though, 80% at best.
Britain haven’t won DC since the 30’s!
Think about it for a second, that’s before the Munich Agreement, WW2, Hitler and the rest.
1936, 6 years before Casablanca was filmed lol.
Also, and I’m just being honest here, I don’t think he has it to win this, at all. Novak will take care of him again should they meet, and probably EVEN Fed too……
;0)
You can’t multitask your prep for big tournaments!
It’s one or the other, hard or clay, and Andy ‘the error machine’ Murray has most definitely made his choice mentally.
And I agree with his reasoning on it completely.

November 10th, 2015 at 8:23 am

@jalep, so glad someone else has noticed how biased Tenngrand is. I’ve had to call out Rick Dimon out in the past and he had to admit I was right, though it was passive aggressive.

Everyone is talking about Fed/Nole/Andy, but after Stan took a set off of Novak, he was asked “Do you also have this feeling that he has more solutions against you than have most other players?” Answer: “Yes that’s true. Stan is really one of the few players who happen to make me back down…he pushed back anyone. They are not likely to be capable of that.”

Just something to consider while everyone makes their dream draws.

November 10th, 2015 at 9:46 am

Reading what Andy said today makes me think he won’t be a factor. Here is the link to the article. https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/news/murray-multi-tasking-eye-london-ghent-133003847–ten.html

November 10th, 2015 at 10:20 am

Multi-tasking!

Thanks for that one Dave, and there you all go!

November 10th, 2015 at 10:31 am

Emily, that is exactly why Stan will be in Novak’s half.

November 10th, 2015 at 10:47 am

Emily, The posters and those who write articles on that site haven’t changed in years. Tennistalk folded, I forget when it was, but RickyD’s Tenngrand is Tennistalk 2.0. It’s Rafa-centric – all roads and threads there lead to Rafa.

Interesting what Novak says about Stan. Stan certainly can be too much. Hope the Stanimal shows up, Emily :D

November 10th, 2015 at 11:11 am

Margot: Are going to the O2 this year? Evidently Andy has requested that his first match be on the Monday – not sure why…..

November 10th, 2015 at 11:22 am

thanks for the link on court surfaces margot. weird, i always thought miami was slower than indian wells. but i think it’s because the ball flies through the dry desert air whereas in miami it’s always so humid that it has the opposite effect. that’s the thing about court speeds – balls and weather conditions can affect rate of play too.

also that link is from 2012, and this year the paris court was redone, with the new/renovated stadium so i think it’s slower since that chart/analysis was done.

but it’s definitely informative. thanks again for sharing.

——————-

as for what will happen with WTF draw, if it is novak/fed/rafa/ferru on one side, that’s a rather tough group. but we’ll see. it’d be cool if novak could get a win over rafa and even that h2h. and yet, i’m not so sure.

to me nole looked so-so in paris overall except for in the final. maybe he’s running out of steam by now, which to me would be understandable given his season.

November 10th, 2015 at 11:25 am

@Jalep and @Margot – No stress here either in terms of the WtF. Murray will have other chances to win/do well at the WTF (even if they move out of London) but I can’t see him and Team GB having the chance to win DC again. So for the first time I won’t care if he goes 0-3 in round robin. More interested in him bringing the Davis Cup home.

November 10th, 2015 at 11:39 am

@J-Kath – Andy is probably trying to get more matches in early so he wouldn’t be as tired going into Davis Cup.

November 10th, 2015 at 11:40 am

`Andy has requested that his first match be on the Monday – not sure why…..’

To try and get used to the surface after preparing for Davis Cup would be my rather obvious guess.
If Tuesday was on offer Im sure he would have taken it.
It will be quite hopeless however.

November 10th, 2015 at 11:51 am

`but I can’t see him and Team GB having the chance to win DC again So for the first time I won’t care if he goes 0-3 in round robin. More interested in him bringing the Davis Cup home’

We have a winner!

November 10th, 2015 at 11:52 am

it’d be cool if novak could get a win over rafa and even that h2h. and yet, i’m not so sure.

Are you serious?
Nadal (sadly) has NO chance against him at the WTF.
None, nada, zero.
Let’s see what next year brings for Novak.
I still think 2011 was more impressive than 2015 due to the level of competition he faced then, although no Wawa to take up the slack but it was also of benefit to him also. Andy and Roger were more ready & able for him and he had to earn his wins against Rafa. Big time.
I don’t think he will have it his own way again next year though.
What goes up!

November 10th, 2015 at 11:58 am

Agree would really love Rafa to go all out and win the whole thing,but thats more down to my wishful thinking,my hope would be that he doesnt suffer a whitewash,i think the Novak/Rafa match up is pretty much a foregone conclusion these days,i mean Rafa hasnt even won a set against Novak since who knows when,so i dont see this Rafa beating this Novak on this surface,when he cant even do it on clay anymore,and i think Novak wins the WTF without losing a match or a set to be honest,the best any player can do is only hope to keep matches close….

November 10th, 2015 at 12:37 pm

Wawrinka has a shot if he isn’t pooped

Not much of one however.

November 10th, 2015 at 12:42 pm

I think the rest are simply playing for RU spot….

November 10th, 2015 at 1:02 pm

SO dull!
I wont bother watching most of it.
Although i never did anyway.
Roll on 2016 and the hope of a more balanced, less dysfunctional tour.

November 10th, 2015 at 1:09 pm

Agree with the opinions of most,in that i doubt Murray will kill himself over this WTF,i think his minds on winning the DC now….

November 10th, 2015 at 1:12 pm

No thread for this but just saw that Ivan Lendl will be working with the USTA on player development. Mardy Fish and Jill Craybas will also be involved. http://news.yahoo.com/8-time-slam-champ-ivan-lendl-helps-usta-075433575–spt.html

November 10th, 2015 at 1:19 pm

maybe not cdp. maybe not. i just never count out nadal. i can’t. he’s too good and he’s come back too many times. but who knows if they’ll even meet anyhow. for sure novak is in a good place, though, confidence-wise. and game-wise, he looked amazing in china, and good in paris too, so no complaints. :)

November 10th, 2015 at 1:22 pm

Jane but Rafas getting too long in the tooth now to keep making come backs,i dont want to sound negative but….

November 10th, 2015 at 1:28 pm

To add i think hes a long way to go before hes at the level to compete for big titles….

November 10th, 2015 at 1:30 pm

Wawrinka has reached the semis both times he’s played in London. I’d say he makes it a third time regardless of what group he’s in. I also think Nadal will do well. One thing for sure is he’s not running on fumes.

November 10th, 2015 at 1:30 pm

Andy will be the comeback story of 2016
Mark.My.Words.
And I think Rafa will go out with a Bang at the FO!

November 10th, 2015 at 1:31 pm

CDP Agree with your post @1.09pm….

November 10th, 2015 at 1:31 pm

@ RZ — I have no stress over ATP WTF. It would be like – who do you think wins WTA tour final if a healthy Serena is there.

DC Cup – full on cheering for Andy and GBR, despite loving Belgian beer and chocolate so much!

November 10th, 2015 at 1:38 pm

Jalep love Belgian chocolates,not so much the beer though lol….

November 10th, 2015 at 1:41 pm

@Jalep
Good grief, I love their beer too!
Big fan of Antwerp also.
I use it as a base if I have to escape from Amsterdam rather quickly…..
;0)
But yeah, so many varieties and many over 8% too.

Sadly however the Belgians are going D.O.W.N.

November 10th, 2015 at 1:44 pm

Yes Dave – I also saw that article – he won’t be a factor – my worry is that if he tries to be he’ll end up failing twice!! It isn’t a pleasurable thought that you have to win 3 5-setters to win for GB…..your country expects (bull s-it).

I’d wish Andy to go into AO as 2nd seed more than winning DC – I appreciate the whole of the GB fans will not agree – better leave commenting full time.

November 10th, 2015 at 1:46 pm

“I’d wish Andy to go into AO as 2nd seed more than winning DC”

@J-Kath: He can do both!

November 10th, 2015 at 1:51 pm

I’ll go with Belgian chocolate and British Davis Cup champions! :-)

November 10th, 2015 at 1:54 pm

On the other note, Lendl scored the job with USTA, he and Mardy Fish will work with young and talented US players.

November 10th, 2015 at 2:35 pm

@Ben, agree that Stan will make the semis (hopefully he’ll make it one step further this year after the disappointment in his semi against Federer).

Even if some people think WTF is a foregone conclusion, I still enjoy watching the best play each other. Last year, the round robin was such a disappointment, but we should get some more interesting match ups this year, including some we haven’t seen in a while.

November 10th, 2015 at 2:45 pm

Emily, 100% agree. I have no idea why people rag on this tournament. Every slam we hype up the big match encounters like crazy. Here, we are guaranteed these matches. What’s not to enjoy? And yeah, this year most of the guys are playing better.

I guess with DC coming up no one cares but I’d love to see Wawrinka vs Murray. Haven’t seen that in a long time and both are in very different places since the last time they played.

November 10th, 2015 at 2:48 pm

J-Kath to understand the British press means they build someone up to knock them down again,remembering W when he won that it was we still havent had a true British champion since Fred Perry,all of a sudden he was Sottish then not English,it will be the same if/when he wins the DC,damned if you dont and damned if you do….

November 10th, 2015 at 2:49 pm

If I sound to be complaining about WTF, sorry, I don’t mean to be. I love the RR format and top 8 match-ups, and think it’s a great end to the season.

What I’m saying is, well, like Paris, it looks like Novak has this; I feel no stress, and plan to sit back and enjoy London.

For me, I’m more nervous for Kvitova/Safarova/Czech team vs Russia Fed Cup; also, DC.

Cheers cdp for Belgian beer — maybe I’ll buy some for DC weekend. Harder to find will be Belgian chocolate here.

November 10th, 2015 at 3:09 pm

If Nishikori is 100%, I wouldn’t write him off. Not saying he will win the whole thing or anything. But he could get a big win against one of the top guys. Ferrer doesn’t have the fire power to beat Federer or Djokovic. He has been able to beat Nadal on indoor hard courts in the past though. Berdych always seems to win at least one match in the WTF. So things can happen for sure. It’s exciting.

November 10th, 2015 at 3:15 pm

I think Stan would be the only player with a chance against Novak,and probably Federer with it been best of three,although Stan blows hot and cold and can lose to other players,you can see the possibility if only slightly of Novak losing to Stan but not losing two matches in this format,and not twice to the same player if he meets them twice….

November 10th, 2015 at 3:16 pm

Absolutely GG.

In addition, as CDP says “You can’t multi-task your preparations for big tournaments.”

And I somehow feel that everyone is forgetting the fact that Kim is expected to have their baby in February – can Andy even share his worries with her at this time? A time when he needs to?

November 10th, 2015 at 3:17 pm

Sorry Jalep it seems like im the one complaining,but im only putting my point across as i see things….

November 10th, 2015 at 3:18 pm

I thought it was “when Murray wins, he’s British, but when Murray loses, he’s Scottish”.

Ha, always enjoyed that. I can’t imagine the British media would find reasons to complain if Murray brings back the cup.

November 10th, 2015 at 3:24 pm

I temrmber the year Nole had to play Delpo, Andy… and final with Roger, every single match was a cracker and that last BHDTL point against Roger in the final when Roger was rushing to net was just wow.

November 10th, 2015 at 3:26 pm

Ben – give it a week and they will have forgotten – unless he suddenly does a Nole and wins 90% – even then it won’t be enough.

November 10th, 2015 at 3:35 pm

I Didnt say that there wasnt good/great matches in this tournament,just that i dont particulaly care for this format,and that i think this year it could be a bit too predictable….

November 10th, 2015 at 3:53 pm

J-Kath, yeah but they can’t complain on that same weekend, right?

…Right?

November 10th, 2015 at 4:06 pm

@Ben – that was put to rest once Murray won Wimbledon. The official meter is no longer changing his status from 100% British.

http://andymurrayometer.com/
https://twitter.com/theamo

November 10th, 2015 at 4:13 pm

If you had to rank the top 8 in terms of likelihood of winning the WTF, how would you do it? Here’s mine

1. Djokovic
2. Federer
3. Wawrinka
4. Nadal
5. Murray (thought of putting him higher but I think his mind will be elsewhere)
6. Berdych (would have put him at 7 but he Kei is so injury prone)
7. Nishikori
8. Ferrer (last only because he seems least likely to get a win over the top 5)

Now that I’ve put this in writing, it’s very likely that Berdych, Nishikori, or Ferrer will win the whole thing.

November 10th, 2015 at 4:16 pm

Ben

The week after, I’ll have to assume it’s wishful collective Almheizer?

November 10th, 2015 at 4:37 pm

RZ – The “meter” resulted in a welcome grin – however, if shove comes to push – Scotland is on a separate course than its Big Brother – aint going to affect Andy’s UK popularity (or lack of) – won’t matter as he’ll be a tennis senior citizen by the time it happens….

PS Ben Sorri about spelling above – got my pre-bed glass of wine…yummph.

November 10th, 2015 at 4:50 pm

@ J-Kath – “collective Almheizer” that’s good…hehe

November 10th, 2015 at 4:53 pm

Agree with the order of your list, RZ.

Now watch Andy win it!!

November 10th, 2015 at 4:56 pm

That link is hilarious.

What was he before Wimbledon?

RZ, in Ferrer’s defense, he’s made a final at the year end championships before (in 07). I can’t even remember if Berdych ever made the semis. The guy just likes to show up, I guess.

November 10th, 2015 at 5:07 pm

@Ben – I would definitely move Ferrer up if it was a list of likelihood of making it out of RR play. But as a list of likelihood to win the tournament, I have to have him down at the bottom. He can get to finals, just can’t seem to knock off the top guys to win those finals.

November 10th, 2015 at 5:13 pm

The best i ever saw Berdych play was W in 2010,by beating both Federer and Djokovic back to back,he caused Federer problems once or twice in the GS,hes just never repeated that form though….

November 10th, 2015 at 5:16 pm

Is it a case of not hitting that same form? Or is it that the top guys have adjusted better?

Chicken or the egg?

November 10th, 2015 at 5:26 pm

@GG – and I have yet to forgive for that! I was winning the fantasy grand slam tennis challenge that tournament until Berdych screwed that up.

November 10th, 2015 at 5:33 pm

Berdych winning WTF would be shocking. Might be a sign he’d win AO.

November 10th, 2015 at 5:39 pm

Nole is relaxing with family, not worried to much about WTF, there is nice tweet from him with Stefan clapping while watching violin concert, I wanted to post the link for Nole fans, but it is one of those long ones that will bugger the thread.

November 10th, 2015 at 7:53 pm

Wog
I saw that. Very nice violinist too

November 10th, 2015 at 9:27 pm

django,
You are not wrong

November 10th, 2015 at 10:07 pm

Rafa will win WTF…..You heard it first from Okiegal…… :)

November 10th, 2015 at 10:40 pm

Rafa and Juan Monaco are dating… You heard it first from Travis :)

November 10th, 2015 at 11:43 pm

Good grief! Checked in to read your all erudite comments. Read last two….
#roadrunner

November 11th, 2015 at 1:16 am

Okie good to see you here girl ;)….

November 11th, 2015 at 1:48 am

11.43PM Totally unfunny,and totally uncalled,yet no moderation yet again, i see some posters get away with murder….

November 11th, 2015 at 2:19 am

@GG……It’s 1:45….haven’t batted an eye. I guess I’d better get the sleeping aid out…..I’m wide awake…thank goodness for forum chats!!

November 11th, 2015 at 2:40 am

WogBoy
You own me at least one (Did manage to get to Nole resto for a pict. Thks again)… So I hope you will regret this choice: Nole/Roger/Rafa/David…

;-D

This is more balance draw IMHO
Nole/Stan/Berdych/Kei
Andy/Roger/Rafa/Ferrer

November 11th, 2015 at 9:01 am

^You think putting the big 3 out of 4 guys in one half of the draw is “balanced”?

This makes more sense:

Nole/Stan/Berdych/Rafa
Andy/Roger/Ferrer/Kei

or something like that…split up the big 4.

Of course if your a Nole fan then it should look like this:

Nole/Kei/Ferrer/Bird
Rafa/Fed/Stan/Andy

If your a Rafa Fan it should look like this:

Rafa/Fed/Fed/Fed
Andy/Nole/Stan/Bird/Kei/Ferrer

And if your a Fed fan it should look like this:’

Fed
Doesn’t matter.

And finally if your a Andy fan it should look like this;

Andy/Ferrer/Kei/Bird
Fed/Rafa/Nole/Stan

November 11th, 2015 at 11:51 am

lol skeezer…
i say, it doesnt matter too much.
but agree that splitting the big 4 in half would be good.
stan’s the 5th who throws things off.
he could win it imo.

November 11th, 2015 at 12:02 pm

It doesnt both me whos in whos half either,still can only see one winner….

November 11th, 2015 at 12:25 pm

Bother me….

November 11th, 2015 at 12:29 pm

LMAO at Rafa/Fed/Fed/Fed.

It’s not fair to just say split up the “Big 4” since Wawrinka is probably in better form than Nadal and Federer.

Here’s the great thing, though. We have 5 players who could potentially win it and the other 3 are capable of putting up fights. It’s as stacked a WTF as you can dream of. Mouth watering stuff for tennis fans.

November 11th, 2015 at 12:52 pm

Stan has a relatively poor indoor career record at just above 50%.

November 11th, 2015 at 12:55 pm

Worst out of the top 8.

November 11th, 2015 at 12:57 pm

Here’s an interesting read for Rafa fans:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/tennis/article-3312691/Rafael-Nadal-clay-O2-courts-knees-break-Spaniard-returns-England-rediscovered-joy-sport.html#ixzz3rCGfRdzm

And what he thinks of WTF from same link:

“I am not sure if it is 100 per cent fair that we qualify for the World Tour Finals playing on grass, hard, clay and indoors, and since 2005, when I qualified [for the first time], it is already 11 years that every single time [it has been] on indoor hard,” says Nadal.

November 11th, 2015 at 1:02 pm

Yes, elina. Don’t you think Stan might like WTF on clay too?

November 11th, 2015 at 1:05 pm

Nadal has a better record against every other player iindoors so I think they’d prefer Stan.

November 11th, 2015 at 1:07 pm

Rafa’s really no slouch on any surface. elina. The way he’s been progressing on indoor hc, he could win this year, if not for Nole, imo.

November 11th, 2015 at 1:13 pm

But Kei’s is possibly being underrated using those indoor hc stats, elina. When he’s healthy Kei could be dangerous. At this point this season. there’s not a lot of reason to hope for more than a RR win.

November 11th, 2015 at 1:28 pm

Nadal is the only player who’s ever complained about the surface of WTF.

Murray was contemplating skipping WTF to prepare for his clay court DC final. But yeah, let’s put WTF on clay after 4+ months of hard court tennis. The logic is astounding.

November 11th, 2015 at 1:43 pm

That’s true, Ben. Same thing every year.

November 11th, 2015 at 1:59 pm

Didnt actually read the link,didnt have to to know the gist,Rafa says and does alot of things that get up even my nose from time to time,i really wish he would STFU sometimes,and just play….

November 11th, 2015 at 2:04 pm

Jalep left you a reply about handfasting on the other thread,just wondering if you read it?….

November 11th, 2015 at 2:11 pm

Jalep @ 1.05pm

Think Andy would like it very much this year!!!
LOL

November 11th, 2015 at 2:17 pm

Alison. I really wish YOU would just STFU and stop jumping on the bandwagon of the Rafa critics. The players have to play on 4 different surfaces throughout the year and 8 players qualify for the year ending finale which is called the WTF although I have a different interpretation to what it actually means. Why not rotate the surface every 2 or 3 years for example? They can play on Indoor grass or indoor clay. Why does it have to be indoor HC? What happens after the FO? Until this year the players had to transition from clay to grass without a break. So why can’t the WTF be played on indoor clay? Even Andy Murray has to play on clay after playing indoor HC!!

November 11th, 2015 at 2:22 pm

For sure, Kath… and I’m scouting this week…

Ward and fellow GBR teammates are working the Challenger clay in South America. Practice, practice…

Bemelmans down there too. No sign of Steve Darcis.
Bemelmans not winning more than a round here and there.

November 11th, 2015 at 2:32 pm

i don’t get why rafa complains. he’s not bad on the surface at all.

and that’s not even the main point. remember when rafa started out, how he was such a dynamo on clay in particular? sure, he could get a win off fed here or there early on, like at dubai or something. but largely it was on clay that he excelled.

but the admirable thing about rafa – under toni’s tutelage no less – is that he set about FIRST getting better on grass. and you could literally *see* the intermittent steps he took in this by his results at wimbledon 2006 (getting a set from fed), 2007 (getting 2 sets), and 2008 (winning).

then, after having won that battle, we saw him work to improve on hard courts, winning AO 09, perhaps at the expense of FO that year; winning USO 10, by revamping his serve, such that it came and went in the blink of a tournament practically, and then taking his grand old time to come back to the tour in 2013 and then dominating the latter summer hardcourt season.

so this is what i don’t understand – why don’t he and toni just set about the same approach to the latter quarter of the season, and try to win shanghai or paris and WTF? instead, it’s been a complaint. why not do what you did with all the other big titles rafa? it’s clear you can!!

having written all this, watch him win this year. ;)

i agree jalep; i just never count him out. i always consider him a contender, and it’s clear he’s coming back into form, so those who count him out as a potential winner here, imo, aren’t taking all matters into hand.

November 11th, 2015 at 2:35 pm

You people just do not understand Rafa’s problem playing on indoor HC. The ball bounces too low and we all know about his dodgy knees so ………..Nuff said.

November 11th, 2015 at 2:40 pm

Jane thats a great post,but realistically he hasnt won a big title all year,so i think hes some way of doing that at the WTFs, and as Daniel pointed out he couldnt even win it in 2010 or 2013 which were two of his best years,how will he be a factor in one of his worst years ever, so i wont be holding my breath anyway?….

November 11th, 2015 at 2:43 pm

thanks gypsy. imo, one factor he has going for him is freshness. in 2010 and 2013, he was coming off very successful seasons where he had played deeply in a bunch of hard court events already. it’s arguable that he didnt arrive at the WTFs in those years with energy and hunger. this year is different in both senses. he is hungry to reassert himself against his peers and he is basically fresh from not over-exerting himself during the season.

November 11th, 2015 at 3:13 pm

I said this on a different thread a few days ago but I like the fact that the WTF is on an indoor court as there are no indoor grand slams. Also (in theory), the French ends the clay season, Wimbledon ends the grass season, and the US Open ends the outdoor hard court season. So it makes sense that the WTF could close out the indoor season.

November 11th, 2015 at 3:13 pm

Fed fans like wtf staying indoors and nadal fans don’t.

The rest of the reasons are just rationalizations of their respective foregone conclusions.

Same old every year lol.

November 11th, 2015 at 3:42 pm

Hi lapinroyal,

Glad to hear from you, I hope you enjoyed rest of your stay in Belgrade and Serbia, I also hope you enjoyed that night out in Belgrade, “little ” bit of food and wine as much as we did. We declared you honorary Serbian after seeing you eating those hot chili papers. Remember, next meeting is Melbourne and AO.
This link is just remind you of our outing and Belgrade nights:
http://youtu.be/3oE5Opx-y0A

November 11th, 2015 at 4:10 pm