Roger Federer, Andy Murray Lead Favorites Into Wimbledon QFs; Nick Kyrgios Show Over

C’mon Fed!

July 4th, 2016 at 9:13 pm

I’ve been in the bush for a few days. Did I miss anything? ;)

July 4th, 2016 at 9:36 pm

Tennis Vagabond Says:
I’ve been in the bush for a few days. Did I miss anything? ;)
—
Whatever bush you were in must be a special kind of bush. The members of this forum will pay to stay there for the duration of every grand slam for the next 10 years.

#profitablebush

July 4th, 2016 at 10:20 pm

Men’s bracket update: Kimberly has taken the lead! But it’s a tight race with Dave just one point behind in 2nd, and Mat4 and Nikola one point behind Dave in a tie for 3rd.

So far the pic of Andy rolling his eyes at mum Judy is working its magic.

July 4th, 2016 at 11:02 pm

RZ – Did you see the vid reaction snippet of mum Judy seeing the final Djokovic score and doing a Cersei Lannister smile?
TX ought to have that reaction snippet in their “Murray junk images and vids” besides the bathtub shot they always run – pile.

July 4th, 2016 at 11:58 pm

the bush? what are you, tennisvagabond – canadian?

July 5th, 2016 at 12:59 am

Mac giving us a wave from the moral high ground? Don’t make me laugh. Nick played great in the first set, missed a volley and gave the set to Andy. Then he had a melt down. I’ve seen many, many players do that, including Andy at Wimbledon against Rafa.
Then Nick regrouped and played fine, just Andy was too g0od.
Jeepers people are so quick to be judgemental. And, for some insight into Nick, you can read Andy’s thoughts:
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/tennis/wimbledon-2016-andy-murray-vs-nick-kyrgios-defends-good-friend-fourth-round-manic-monday-a7117566.html

July 5th, 2016 at 2:13 am

Nick did not play brilliantly well at atll. The first set was close, and Andy was gracious to say so. These BBC commentators need to retrain with some of their comments.

I am pleased that Andy taught Nick a lesson. Sorry, but Nick was sub par in this match. He did not show the tenacity he has shown the previous matches and why?

One word.

Arrogance.

He thought he would win. What professional tennis player, goes to watch Leyton Hewitt in doubles BEFORE he is due to play his match against Andy? What tennis player, then plays snooker before his match with Murray. Argue all you want about relaxing.

This man is arrogant. He thought he would win, said as much and then his interview after being beaten, said, he was ‘too soft’, he lost the will to play – he lost his balls. He gave up. First set, great, but it was a huge anticlimax and Nick should be ashamed of his sub par performance.

Someone needs to coach Nick in Manners, hard graft and working for your craft to get to the top of the game. Why is he wasting his time otherwise?

He thinks he has a natural talent, and he does. But he is a waster at times. At this point in his career, he probably believes that he will, by some miracle, beat everyone out on court, due to his self-belief.

He needs to wake up. Fast.

Well done Murray for teaching him a lesson in how to play tennis. Some of the shots were breathtaking.

July 5th, 2016 at 6:17 am

Well done to Federer, so good to seem him coming into form. Now for the big tests to come.

Such a joy to watch Roger.

July 5th, 2016 at 6:21 am

I think Novak’s exit is a blessing in disguise for Roger and he should grab this opportunity and make the most of it. But still he has a mountain to climb in the form of Andy who will be a major stumbling block to thwart his ambitions in becoming the 1st Tennis player both in the Professional and Amateur era to hold 8 Wimbledon titles, a feat which would solidify his place even further in the annals of Tennis Legends.

But it must be admitted that so far, Roger didn’t face any major test and has cruised with relative ease. I do not think we can come to any firm conclusion on his current form based on this showing. May be, the match against Cilic will give us an indication as to where Roger exactly stand ?

July 5th, 2016 at 7:57 am

Michael, I don’t think that blessing was very well disguised.

Also, though Roger hasn’t faced much competition, we would have said the same had he gone through Querrey. Johnson is ranked higher than Querrey and is a player still moving up, where Querrey’s best days are (or seemed to be!) long behind him.

July 5th, 2016 at 8:56 am

TV,

Yeah, I do tend to agree with you. But Novak’s loss to Querrey was just a shocker and was never anticipated. It was just a bad day in Office combined with lousy play which spoilt Novak’s dreams of achieving a Calendar slam.

July 5th, 2016 at 9:16 am

I have always been of the opinion that these young(ish) players who misbehave frequently look for a way out of having to compete because they can’t handle the pressure expectations – particularly of these large and unhealthy entourages. It’s one thing if you’re already a committed professional and have a bunch of hangers-on egging you on – it would have little effect on what you would do anyway because you’re already a serious committed professional.

But when you’re not there yet AND there are about 10 people whose livelihoods appear to depend on your results, it’s easy to look for excuses to tank because the prospect of giving your unadulterated best and STILL losing is hard to face for someone…especially when you’ve been pushed into it.

Did anyone else see the clips of Kyrgios excoriating his entourage for not giving him enough support, and then suddenly they were giving him standing ovations every time he won a point. It was like watching over-eager parents at a pee-wee soccer game.

July 5th, 2016 at 9:43 am

MMT – I agree. How can you love a game when so many people are feeding at the trough you supply. And the trough feeders are yes-men (and yes-women).

I forget which announcer said that Richard Williams was underestimated as a coach. That’s true in any event, but in this context particularly – he convinced his kids they could walk away from the game at 26. And here they are, 10 years past that, still loving what they do.

July 5th, 2016 at 9:49 am

Michael sorry Novak lost, and i know your dissapointed, but life goes on im afraid, and theres still alot of great players left, and a alot of great tennis still to be played, maybe we will get a new champion, or an old one, but tennis doesnt revolve around any one particular player ….

July 5th, 2016 at 9:53 am

BBB: I’m so glad that you mentioned Richard Williams because he has often been held out as the quintessential over-bearing parent. In light of his contemporaries (like the Stefano Capriati, Damir Dokic and Jim Pearce), it is understandable that he was viewed in that light. But his approach and execution of managing his daughters’ careers has stood the test of time, and passed with two different World Champions.

He does deserve credit for laying a foundation that has lasted a lot longer than probably anyone expected (except maybe himself). I suspect that this is due (in no small part) to removing himself from the day-to-day of his daughters careers. I am not exonerating him of all his tresspasses (nor is it my place to do so) but two things must be said of Richard Williams: he didn’t drive his daughters into the ground and they have intrinsic competitiveness that he either contributed, or at the very least didn’t stifle.

July 5th, 2016 at 10:22 am

Margot — in full agreement with you and Andy about Nick.

But I think we are a minority on here 😉

July 5th, 2016 at 10:25 am

I have hope for Federer but I’ll only start actually believeing he can win the while thing if he beets Cilic and on no more than 4 sets. It’s jos first real test and agaisnt Rainic we know is a different ball game because he will have pressure to hold and try to put as many returns back as possible. Usually he delivers in semis but lost to Tsonga dn berdy before exactly in this stage, QF when he was favorite.

Hope for the bestbuy he needs a good win versus Cilic. Once in semis, you just need 2 good matches and anythingcan happen, including opponents onthe other side not handling pressure as wel. Fed will be the msot experienced one and after him Murray who may startfeeling the pressure as well seeing the end line with no Novak.

July 5th, 2016 at 10:32 am

Agree MMT,

It os as of nowadays players think they need a huge entiurage just like top players before avtually getting there first. I know Fed was increasing his camp year by tear but for some seems it work. Nadal always had a buncg of people from theget go, his manager is always present in matches, more so than any other I’ve seen.

Maybe we are also finding excuses for the young one andthey simply just don’t hve in them. A bit spoiled kind of wanting things to come the easy way. This seems like a pattern in modern society, last 10 years or so. This generation don’t want to eork for anything and they arr raise to reach the star and they don’t even know what they want, just that have to BE sometging big.

July 5th, 2016 at 11:22 am

MMT, great comments about R Williams. He’s raised and built two of the most endurable athletes in tennis history, and perhaps the GOAT, as both parent and coach. I remember he loved to talk about himself- I wonder if there is any extended commentary or insight into his coaching and parenting tactics.

July 5th, 2016 at 11:31 am

jalep: never minded being in a minority, after all I am an Andy Murray fan…;)

July 5th, 2016 at 11:39 am

does nick k. have “yes men” and a big entourage? as far as i know, he has no real coach. i guess the aussie tennis federation might be part of it – they seem to have issues with the younger players coming up, i.e., both tomic and nick. maybe they put pressure on them too young? i don’t know.

i stuck up for nick a lot when the majority of fans were criticising his “bad behaviour” on court. it didn’t bother me.. but what i don’t get is when he says things like “i played videogames this morning; probably not the best prep for a big match, but whatever, it was fun.” saying this is sort flouting against professionalism and sounds a bit petulant. does he just loathe press and so he says these things to shock, or is there a truth there, that he’s not very motivated?

he also said “some days i am motivated and other days i want to do nothing” or something to that effect. well, someone needs to tell nick that this is completely normal! who isn’t like that about work? he was suggesting he can’t find a coach who could understand that, but i don’t see why not. i am sure murray and nole and rafa all have days when they aren’t motivated but they practice anyhow. that’s just life.

perhaps he needs to simplify things, get a key person or two who can guide him, and distance himself from the rest of the people around him. i wish him the best. his talent is immense and his rebellious side is interesting – especially in this world of “corporate” sports (mind you he’s immersed in that with nike). but i’m not sure about the sort of “casual indifference” he shows sometimes; it might hurt him in the long run. then again, not all players are cut out to be top 10s or champions, and he’s been hyped a lot very young. all things considered, i’m sure he’ll be fine, whatever he decides.

July 5th, 2016 at 11:39 am

“But I think we are a minority on here ”

A minority but not as small as you might imagine 😉 Margot and I have seen eye to eye for quite some time. Unlike her I can only bear intermittent visits to this blog because of the tribalism.

July 5th, 2016 at 11:39 am

jane – there has been quite a lot of discussion about his brother in particular as someone who encourages Nick to be impervious to criticism. If you can’t handle constructive criticism, you won’t improve.

July 5th, 2016 at 11:43 am

MMT – what RW did is extraordinary. He didn’t follow the normal rules. He didn’t want them to be tennis robots yet they are champions. When Serena – with little formal education – got out on Center Court in Paris a decade ago and started speaking in French I nearly fainted. These are women with varied interests.

Oracene also deserves a lot of credit, but she’s not vilified the way RW is.

July 5th, 2016 at 11:45 am

jane: he was actually filmed sitting with Lleyton’s kids watching Lleyton’s veteran doubles, prior to his match with Andy. Smiling and happy. Perhaps he was playing vid games with them?
As Andy pointed out whatever Nick does, he’s subjected to an almighty media spotlight. He wins matches but all the press focus on is his bad behaviour.
DA: Minorities rule OK. :)

July 5th, 2016 at 12:00 pm

i can’t tell if nick is impervious to criticism BBB. he seemed unhappy with his own performance in the 2nd and 3rd sets, which he called “pathetic” so i get the impression he wants to do better.

there are a number of factors involved.

part of it is that he’s up against murray on centre court at wimbledon, so there is that.

another part of it is that this was nick’s 4th day in a row playing a match! why is no one discussing that? how come no one in the press asked him if he was fatigued? the weather and concomitant scheduling has been difficult for a lot of players this wimbledon.

and maybe the third part is his own issues.

but it’s not all down to nick’s motivation or whatever. there are many factors that go into wins and losses besides talent and motivation. context is important. match ups, etc.

July 5th, 2016 at 12:10 pm

margot, perhaps. i don’t know. i just know what he said about the videogames and the tone in which he said it sounded sort of apathetic. however, perhaps that was a bit of an “FU” to the press and their questions.

July 5th, 2016 at 12:15 pm

His behaviour is massively improved but no-one, except Andy it seems, is acknowledging this, so very likely it was a FU response. I mean, heaven forbid, he could admit to enjoying being with Lleyton’s kids, a macho Aussie boy ‘n all. ;)
Also eg Troicki’s outburst the other day, looked far worse than anything Nick’s done recently. And I could list many more examples.

July 5th, 2016 at 12:23 pm

his behaviour overall never bothered me. i like difference.

love berdych’s answer to the press

Q. You reached the finals six years ago. What is the difference for you?

TOMAS BERDYCH: I’m six years older.

ha ha, just the facts. ;)

sometimes it’s better to give the press less the way they spin stories these days!

July 5th, 2016 at 12:34 pm

So, Jane and Daniel bring up a good point – what about the technical analysis of Kyrgios’ game? In my view in the 6 key areas of the game, he is very strong in 2 of them (serve & forehand), average in two (backhand & movement) and poor in the last two (his return and his volleys).

He may have the best serve in tennis – aside from Federer, nobody is as accurate, harder to read and consistent in the serve. I give him a slight edge over Federer in pace, but Federer is more accurate – they’re equally hard to read. His forehand is a flamethrower, and one area I would adjust is for him to develop a court positioning and shot selection that allows him to control the points with his forehand (like Murray adjusted his game in his first stint with Lendl to do the same). He should be dominating with his forehand and he doesn’t, in part due to his shot selection, but also because of his average movement.

If you watch his footwork, he frequently sets his feet long before the point of contact and as such he can’t run around the backhand like the best players, nor can he always effectively hit his forehand without taking an enormous cut – that diminishes his consistency. He would be better off daring players to hit to his forehand, but he’ll need to move better to do that. His backhand I think is fine – it doesn’t have to be great if the forehand is good enough and if he hits enough forehands/few backhands.

As for his weaknesses – his return is frankly, pathetic. And I’m not just talking about him tanking – I also feel he doesn’t get enough balls in play on the first serve, and goes for too much on the second. He doesn’t create or convert break points at a good clip, and that will only get him so far. Finally, aside from some clever volleys, if he has to defend the net or work his way into a second or third volley, he usually has neither the court sense nor the technique to do so. That is a no-brainer: at 6’4″ he ought to be putting pressure on his opponents with a consistent net game, but he’s content to try to hit bombs from behind the baseline and that’s not going to get it done.

July 5th, 2016 at 12:39 pm

Kyrgios is still pretty immature. He has talent that we’d all love to have but he doesn’t appreciate it yet. As he gets older, I think he’ll realize what he has to do.

I’m not a fan of Kyrgios. Particularly after the nonsensical thing he pulled with Stan in Canada. The guy has some behavior issues. Rationalizing what he does because another player does something worse doesn’t sit well with me.

I think a guy like Andre Agassi would be the perfect coach for Kyrgios. Andre went through the rebellious faze. He didn’t go to Wimbledon. He wore crazy things and said some pretty dumb things too. It took him a while to appreciate the talent he’d been given and get to work. Sounds like a familiar story to me. Nick…get Andre on the phone, pull your head out of your butt and get to work.

July 5th, 2016 at 12:49 pm

Wayne Gretzky once said that he always gave 100% because there may be fans in the stands that will never seen another game and he wanted to make sure they got their money’s worth…or something to that effect. It’s a lesson Nick could stand to learn.

July 5th, 2016 at 12:51 pm

jane – that seemed to be Nick’s problem with Rafter, among others.

July 5th, 2016 at 1:00 pm

@SG1
I’m not “rationalising” his behaviour in relation to what others do at all. I’m merely pointing out that Nick is subjected to far more scrutiny for what he does, compared to the scrutiny other players get for similar or worse behaviour.
I think MMT makes excellent points about his game and, if a coach helped him to improve in some of areas, perhaps he would behave “better” on court.
I don’t think he “tanked” at all in the 2nd set. He seemed more bewildered than anything and clueless about what to do next.
But of course few players have the ability to change their game mid match to outwit their opponents, as Andy can.

July 5th, 2016 at 1:30 pm

I like Nick. I think it was fun that he stirred the pot in Canada, though I understand why it bothered people.

I hope he finds some good folks to help him figure things out.

July 5th, 2016 at 1:58 pm

Agree with bits of this and bits of that re. Nick. Some of us take a long time to acquire sense…only problem for Nick is that a tennis career is a lot shorter than most careers…

July 5th, 2016 at 2:15 pm

PS: Nick is waiting for Andy Murray to retire….then he’ll have a celebrity coach.

July 5th, 2016 at 2:16 pm

“Nick is subjected to far more scrutiny for what he does”

true margot, but he also has the whole aussie federation and the money of nike pushing him to the forefront. he’s been marketed since at least last year’s USO, where he was at promos with fed, rafa and serena.

nick is 21. thiem is 22. but we see very little about thiem by comparison.

as for troicki, in the tennis community’s and/or marketing’s eyes, he is nothing, except when he refused a drug test, so his outbursts means little — except to his own pocketbook.

same with gilles simon. he said some contentious things at wimbledon, but all of that floated away likely into obscurity, much like the rain floated away off the grass, ha ha.

more public eye frequently means more criticism, alas.

July 5th, 2016 at 2:49 pm

^ p.s. to be clear, “I” don’t think that about troicki or gilles at all, both of whom can be super fun to watch, and both of whom have a lot of talent! but neither is a favoured son and neither has a lot of financial backing (that i know of anyhow).

July 5th, 2016 at 2:52 pm

If it is of interest:
Victor Troiki is worth US$5 million. Used to be sponsored by Adidas, now sponsored by Lotto.

Gilles Simon is worth US$13 million. Is sponsored by Adidas.

July 5th, 2016 at 3:55 pm

thanks j-kath. all of that background info is of interest. when you say “is worth” do you mean the sponsorship deals or prize money or perhaps both? also, where do you find said info?

July 5th, 2016 at 4:02 pm

Kyrgios just showed HORRIBLE temperament on court. He has a lot of talent, no doubt, but very poor application. Seems like he is too cocky on the court, doesn’t want to apply himself, work hard. So often he did not move his feet, or even bend down to get the ball properly, was just hitting casually. No wonder he lost at least 15-20 points due to sheer LAZINESS.

These kind of players come and go. there are tons of people with talent. Very very few succeed – only the ones that are willing to work hard and persevere. Nadal is one prime example of that – plays every point like his life depended on it. Kyrgios is the complete opposite of that.

July 5th, 2016 at 5:33 pm

Jane: The figure given is purportedly total income. I got the sponsor info. from Wiki. Just took the basic facts. T

July 5th, 2016 at 6:36 pm

PS: Troiki probably less because of his ban….time away from tournaments.

July 5th, 2016 at 6:38 pm

I think part of the reason that Nick is subjected to more scrutiny than other players is because he is on probation. Eyes are on him to see if he behaves badly enough to get a suspension.

In terms of the actual match, I think for a player like Nick who play first-strike tennis, an opponent like Murray or Djokovic is tough because the ball keeps coming back because they are so fast and have such good anticipation. The 2nd set wasn’t Nick’s best showing, but frankly he just got beat in the 3rd.

July 5th, 2016 at 7:09 pm

Sorry, peeps, but Nick is just not that interested in tennis……he’s a hot mess and oh so talented! It seems to me that he is more interested in showing out for the crowd……and when something he does stupid on the court…..like a crazy unnecessary shot for instance, should it happen to work out for him then he gets the wild crazy reaction from the crowd……this is what he likes! I just bet he would be impossible to coach…..wouldn’t pay attention to anything said to him….just my take, but he has the potential to be a real tennis star!!

July 5th, 2016 at 7:14 pm

I think nick just really thinks very high of himself and can’t accept a loss..if you aren’t dedicated enough,you don’t have to gloat about it after you loss(surprise,surprise) every time..your action will show that..against andy he was really clueless and the limitations in his game were exposed(as MMT nicely pointed out)..my GOAT(!) in tennis is one David Nalbandian and he didn’t really have to tell anybody that he was never dedicated to be successful enough(whatever that means)..but he really didn’t give a fuck about what people or even his fans thought..when he decided to play,he could essentially rape the great roger or rafa in a tennis court..and he could also tank a match to watch his beloved Argentina’s football match:-)

July 5th, 2016 at 9:02 pm

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/tennis/2016/07/05/much-maligned-nick-kyrgios-owes-us-nothing-but-gives-us-plenty/

An excellent article and I agree with every word.

July 6th, 2016 at 1:02 am

There is alot of talent there no question, but also alot has to be changed between the ears, to be a top tennis player or even a sportsman / woman , needs hard work, dedication, disipline, and the right mind set, nothing that was ever worth while ever did come easy, would be a shame to see a guy with such potential, that goes to waste ….

July 6th, 2016 at 2:03 am

Lol peeps, Nick is 21, at No 18 he’s the youngest player in the top 20.
God help them all if he starts bothering! ;)

July 6th, 2016 at 2:11 am

Ah your link’s a gem, Margot:

“Kyrgios could hire a coach, knuckle down, start eating right, start building bridges with the public, perhaps even win a few slams. Or he could do all of those things, lose something essential in the process, and watch the likes of Dominic Thiem, Milos Raonic or Alexander Zverev overtake him.

Tennis’s innately conservative fan-base – the sort of people who make their own jam and buy sovereign gold coins off the telly – would never learn to love him, and he would still end up winning nothing. Either way, would it be worth it?

Only Kyrgios can answer that question. But personally, and selfishly, I would urge him not to change for anyone. Public opinion will take care of itself: Murray and McEnroe could tell him that the passing of time converts even the most unloved of pariahs into the darlings of Centre Court. And meanwhile, I would rather pay to watch Kyrgios giving 80 per cent than the despairingly tedious Raonic – “the CEO of Milos Raonic Tennis”, as he describes himself – giving everything.”

And I could paste the whole thing — hard to decide for the best parts of that write-up! Thanks, for the “other” perspective, Jonathan Liew 👍

Only Kyrgios can answer that question. But personally, and selfishly, I would urge him not to change for anyone. Public opinion will take care of itself: Murray and McEnroe could tell him that the passing of time converts even the most unloved of pariahs into the darlings of Centre Court. And meanwhile, I would rather pay to watch Kyrgios giving 80 per cent than the despairingly tedious Raonic – “the CEO of Milos Raonic Tennis”, as he describes himself – giving everything.

July 6th, 2016 at 10:36 am

Oops, Oops!! double pasted/posted a paragraph! Dang it. Shoulda just copied an pasted the whole thing.

July 6th, 2016 at 10:38 am