Murray Beats Djokovic To Win Wimbledon, Ending 77-Year British Drought
by Sean Randall | July 7th, 2013, 1:28 pm
  • 277 Comments

The long wait is finally over, Andy Murray has won Wimbledon ending a 77-year drought for British men at their home event. In unseasonably hot conditions on Centre Court Wimbledon, Murray outlasted world No. 1 and longtime rival Novak Djokovic 6-4, 7-5, 6-4 in a grueling 3-hours, 9-minutes.

“It feels slightly different to last year,” joked Murray about his teary finish a year ago. “Last year was one of the toughest moments of my career. It was a tough match and an unbelievably long final game. I don’t know how I managed to come through. I’m just so glad.

“I understand how much everyone wanted to see a British winner at Wimbledon. I tried my best. I’ve played Novak many times. He’s going to go down as one of the biggest fighters. That made it extra tough; I just managed to squeeze through in the end.”

I said going in the leader at the end of the match in aces might win it, and Murray dominated in that category finishing with nine, Djokovic just four. But there was more to it. A whole lot more.

Right from the very first point of the match – a tone-setting 20 shot rally won by Murray that signaled the Scot had came to play – we knew what to expect. And that trend of long, physical momentum-shifting rallies continued. At times to me, Djokovic looked weary from his marathon semifinal win over Juan Martin Del Potro on Friday.

But all credit to Murray who played aggressively, moved beautifully, served well and then hung on in a very nervy finish.

All told there were a surprising 11 total breaks of serve so it wasn’t the best tennis I’ve seen, but the end had some nice drama with Djokovic making a last push.

For the Serb, though, it was too little too late. Djokovic led by a break in the second but it wasn’t a convincing lead as Murray soon proved thereafter. Novak had other moments – he led in the third also – just by not enough as Murray just wouldn’t go away, wouldn’t give in.

“Congratulations to Andy. He absolutely deserved this win,” said Djokovic. “He played incredible tennis. Congratulations to his team, I know how much it means to them, all of you guys and the whole country.

“That makes his success even better, I’m aware of the pressure he gets. There was a lot of expectation on him to win the tournament this year after reaching the final last year. It was an absolute honor and pleasure to be a part of this final.”

Murray, who becomes the first British man to win since French Perry in 1936, and the tour now turns its collective attention to the hardcourts (well, everyone except Federer) and with two of the last four Majors in his pocket maybe Murray is the man to beat this second half of the season.

And what a turnaround.

A month ago a back injury left Murray wondering if he could even play Wimbledon. Now he’s on top of the world.


Also Check Out:
Andy Murray: Ivan Wanted To Do Other Things, It’s A Shame, It’s The Best Part Of My Career [Video]
Federer Beats Down Murray, British Hopes, for 7th Wimbledon Title
Wimbledon Men’s Final Open Thread: Novak Djokovic v Andy Murray
Wimbledon Frenzy Begins as Murray Wins Queen’s Title
Murray Beats Ferrer, to Face Pal Djokovic in Australian Open Final

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277 Comments for Murray Beats Djokovic To Win Wimbledon, Ending 77-Year British Drought

1328941 Says:

At last! Congratulations to Murray for having wiped out an impressive Djokovic so far in the tournament.


Giles Says:

Many congratulations to Andy Murray and all his fans. Great day in tennis history. You did it Andy and in straight sets as well! Huge!!


Fedster Says:

Djokovic is extremely over rated.
He has got his ass handed to him by the other big 4 a total of SIX times in GSs in his career peak (since 2011). His record against them before 2011 is a big embarrassment.


Fedster Says:

Even that 2011 run was extremely lucky. He should have lost the USO 2011 semis and 2012 AO semis and finals.
He has run out of luck now.
#Karma.


Debo Says:

Commiserations to the true Nole fans.
Middle f1nger to the fake ones like skeezer !!! LOL
You go are so quick to annoint him as the true successor of Federer. The only part he has succeeded in emulating Federer is losing grandslam finals as a world No.1….he will soon surpass Federer.


tennismonger Says:

Congratulations, Andy Murray!!

Very, very impressive!

Keep working w/Team Murray & may there be many more!


Debo Says:

The retards like skeezer, danny morris will soon be here to give excuses for their fake hero.


skeezer Says:

first since ’36, congrats Murray!!


steve-o Says:

It was lot like the WTA, with the multiple breaks of serve. Very odd for a grass-court match. Usually a great serve is needed to win on grass, but this time great serving played a fairly small part.

Last year, in the final three of the four sets were decided by one break. This year, many breaks.

Pretty much all of it was baseline hammering. Thankfully it was over in straights, otherwise we might have seen another five-hour war–and on grass! Each set took an average of an hour and 3 minutes.


skeezer Says:

debo,

nice try. never said he was the true successor of Fed, just like his game. no one will ever surpass Feds legacy, no in this generation anyways.

stick to congratuling Murray. its his day and he deserves it.


Margot Says:

Love you Andy. You threw off the dead weight of pressure today in some style.
I am so bloody proud of you.


Gordon Says:

Andy -

Attaboy!!!

If a single athlete from a single nation has ever been forced to perform under so much scrutiny and pressure I can’t think of whe that would have been.

You worked incredibly hard and you deserve all the accolades.

Good on ya!


SG1 Says:

Murray fought for every inch, every point and he deserved this win. He faced down the pressure of the occasion and produced some incredible tennis. If there was any doubt he belongs in the upper echelon of today’s game, that doubt has now been erased.

As for Novak, he looked a little spent. Also, he seemed a little tentative on some of Murray’s 2nd serves. Novak has fought a lot of wars the last couple of years. It may be catching up to him a little bit.


bstevens Says:

Congrats to Murray and his fans. I have always had my doubts about him, as I felt his defense-first mindset wouldn’t be enough to win the big prizes in tennis. But kudos to him on a well-earned Wimbledon title.


Long Live The King Says:

Sean, great write-up! Very astute analysis. Murray is indeed the man of the moment.

The no.1 race just got hotter. I will be surprised if Novak and murray do not complete the end of the Fedal era by finishing as no.1 and no.2 this year. I am not sure if Novak can end the year as no.1 He has really taken some tough losses at the last 2 slams.

The USO and the indoor season is already very interesting. We might just get a real year end race. Last year we had one till Paris, but once Federer decided to focus on the big picture, the race ended.

Murray’s next goal will be being no.1 I have to look at the possibilities, but I hope he continues playing like he did at Wimbledon.

Long Live the King, indeed. Can Nole cement his status as the no.1 or will Murray be the new king?

We will have to wait and see.


SG1 Says:

It takes an incredible amount of physical and mental strength to win a major these days. I think that tennis players are definitely among the best of all athletes competing today.


suzette Says:

Congratulations to Andy Murray . He played inspired tennis and deserves the win. Nole just didn’t have it today but that’s life and sport. To the tacky posters like Debo and Fedster, you feel better to be a poor sport ? You can’t call out other posters for their behavior and then mimic it. That is called hypocrisy.


El Flaco Says:

Delpo did the same thing to Djokovic this year that he did to Fed in the Olympics. He softened them up for Murray in the final. Those matches were emotionally draining.


Brando Says:

Thanks Sean for the great write up. And huge well done to Andy for the win! Immensely proud of him! He showed true mental strength and grit by winning a match his entire home nation was eager for him to do so. What bottle he showed in carrying everyone’s hopes, expecatations and slugging it out with the world no.1 in blazing 30 celsius heat for the win. He’s the real deal. Go Muzza!


Tennis x hippy chic Says:

Quick post been a Brit im delighted for Murray and his fans,Margot,The DA,Raquet,Colin etc,sorry to the pound for pounders Jane,Wogboy,Mat4,Courbon,Harry and Bada Bing the only Nole fans that i actually like.
Danny Morris no offence but in case you hadnt noticed Andy actually won Wimbledon in straight sets no less,could you not find it within your heart to swallow your pride and congratulate the man and his fans,for actually winning the title and deservedly so too.


Okiegal Says:

Sorry for Novak fans…….know how you feel. I’ll have to hand it to Andy, however, he played amazing tennis today. The pick ups he made on Novak’s drop shots in that last game were over the top. Great play from Novak but I think Andy wanted it more. Congrats to Andy and his fans…..and in the meantime……Vamos Rafa!!!

Rafa, get healthy. please!!!!!


tfouto Says:

Djokovice is right…

Murray had a incredible game today. He was suberb.
Who will win US Open?


harry Says:

Congratulations to Murray and his fans!


Bada Bing Says:

I think Novak should tank one of the HC masters before USO -preferably Cincinati. Show up and move on in round 2


harry Says:

@hippy chic — just saw your post (3:07). Thanks!

Congrats to you for the Andy win… Any plans of treating yourself to a good “scotch” :-)? Pun definitely intended on “scotch” :-)


Eric Says:

Man, and I used to think Rafa was good at chasing down balls. Murray is like a freaking cheetah…


grendel Says:

@SG1 ” he seemed a little tentative on some of Murray’s 2nd serves”
yes, I noticed that. Everytime Murray leaned up for a 2nd serve, my heart was in my mouth. But very rarely did Djokovic give it the treatment. On a few occasions, he was actually bamboozled by it – which suggests that Murray’s 2nd serve is not always the harmless thing it can look to be. For one thing, although slow, it can have a very high bounce, and presumably there is a fair degree of spin not obvious to a spectator.

It was noticeable that in that final knee trembler of a game, Murray did not serve an ace. It was kind of surprising he got it together to serve at all….


Eric Says:

Djokovic showed that when he is playing his game perfectly, he’s still untouchable; hitting 40 UEs or whatever showed that he can’t really do that consistently anymore… he lost so many points going for a tiny-percentage winner and missing, while Murray was busy playing flawless, mature tennis.


Nativenewyorker Says:

Congratulations to the great Murray fans who have supported him all the way. This is your day so enjoy! Well done by Murray to beat Nole in straight sets.


Polo Says:

suzette @ 2:49

Very well said. There are indeed some fans that give being a tennis fan a bad name.


Colin Says:

This season I have been collecting choice postings from the more absurd of the anti-Murray brigade and now, feeling mean and unforgiving, I am going to remind everyone – especially the loons themselves – just how silly people can be on a forum.

Remember a person called Trufan? On March 23 he informed us “Murray doesn’t have a shot at being No 1 – he will always choke”, following up on March 31 with “he doesn’t have it mentally to win big matches.”

The next pundit to come out of the woodwork called himself – appropriately – WTF. On May 19 he told us “Nole will win calendar grand slam this year”. He finishes with “You heard it here first”, a phrase which generally accompanies a spectacularly wrong prediction. Federer, he continued a few days later, would be Nole’s only challenger at Wimbledon.

Now we come to the man himself, the guy who, if he carries out his threat to post for many years, will be my reason for abandoning this forum. Good ol’ Dunny Morris.

“Murray can barely win a GS title, please leave the tennis analysis to people who can analyse and process information better than you”. Meaning, of course course, Dunny himself. Then he indulges himself in gratuitous insults about Andy’s lack of a “fun life”. I bet Andy, the millionaire with a bunch of staunch friends and a beautiful girlfriend, cringes with fear at these witty shafts from the Dunster!

On July 3 we learned that “if lady forehand makes the final, we are looking at … a Wimbledon final bagel.” Oh dear the crystal ball was wrong again.

The flow of DM’s eloquence was interrupted briefly by Ty, who attacked Murray with everything but facts, calling Kim Sears an actress, which she’s not, and – hilariously – calling Andy upper-class!

Next up, more Dunny gems. On being aggressive:”The day mandy does that he will win a wimblesdon – not this year, for sure.” Poor Dunny can’t even remember to use capitals when they’re needed, but then, his English is distinctly slipshod. As he may not be a native English speaker, I wouldn’t bring up such matter, were it not for his continual boasting about his intellectual prowess.

Yesterday, on the eve of the final, DM predicted “murray will get one set if nole takes some pity and throws him a bone, else nole will crush him”. My, my, Dunny you do hate capitals, don’t you, though you love split infinitives and other solecisms.

In sum, you were spectacularly WRONG, and it would be nice if you were man enough to admit it. But you won’t. You’ll try to spin the reality to make it fit your fantasies.


dari Says:

Forehand was fantastic from Murray today! And damn can that boy run.
Congratulations ANDY MURRAY and to all his major fans, Margot of course and there is another guy from a long time ago, that I can’t remember the name maybe it was racquet? Anyhow, GREAT day for Murray and Brits!


Guest Says:

Would have been happy for both players under different circumstances. Felt strongly that the draws were fixed, as well as the grass. Usually tennis players need extra rackets or bottles of water, but not extra pairs of shoes. Wondering what would have happened if Andy had Novak’s draw and played against Juan. Andy is a great player, but I do not think it was a fair win today.


Long Live The King Says:

“Delpo did the same thing to Djokovic this year that he did to Fed in the Olympics. He softened them up for Murray in the final. Those matches were emotionally draining.”

Great post El flaco. If you look at it, though murray won the olympic gold, Federer and Delpotro won the silver and bronze, which they richly deserved because they gave us the best match of Olympics 2012.

Unfortunately Djokovic and Delpotro do not get any medals for the match they played on Friday. As a tennis fan, that is easily the match of the tournament for me and I hope Del Potro builds on it and wins more slams. To me he is an all-court player in the Fedal mould. He has the potential to win multiple slams and unline Novak/Murray, he does not have a weak surface. Grass used to be, but I doubt many will doubt the guy can win a Wimbledon one day.

All said, this Wimbledon did not fizzle out like 2002 Wimbledon with hewitt and nalbandian playing the final. We had a final that Wimbledon and our sport deserved and a result that will forever be etched in every one’s mind.

Guys who are criticizing Danny Morris – I know the guy personally and believe me he achieved his purpose here. You will be surprised to know the guy actually is a Federer/murray fan and he is starting his own tennis/sports site where he is going to allow my own blog. I hope some of you will comment on my blog too. I will be able to start writing at the end of this month, if all goes well.

If nothing, he got people to talk about tennis and I believe that is something this site is lacking with too much to talk about petty fights and less talk about tennis.

Danny, I told you this was going to happen. You have to be humble about things. Good for you that you made a few thousand euros with your emotional betting. As someone said, there is a difference between confidence and arrogance.

Thinking “I can do it” is confidence. Thinking “Only I can do it” is arrogance. I hope you realise the difference between the 2.

Stick around and be nice to others. You will be surprised how well the same people will respond to you.

Last but not the least – I am very happy for Andy. As I said, I know how it is to support someone who is no good in the eyes of media and experts even though he achieves a lot. If Andy keeps up this form, he will be winning more slams and the number 1 ranking.

Today and this month belongs to Andy. as a headline said “on 7/7 77 years of wait has come to an end” I hope Andy will rule the tennis world or at least Wimbledon with his gifted abilities and all the shots that only a few like Laver, Mcenroe, Federer and Andy himself are blessed with.

Margot:

Thanks for your nice words regarding Tendulkar. I am sure you understand how much he has had to endure in the last 25 years. The funny thing is, he still faces the same pressure from the media, fans and everyone, everytime he walks out to play. Even today.

You must be enjoying this wonderful moment like all other British fans. Are you interested in The Ashes?


Long Live The King Says:

“You can’t call out other posters for their behavior and then mimic it. That is called hypocrisy.”

Well said Suzette. I think you make a great point. I think a lot of users in this virtual world can learn from this.

I will add this – let us stick to the topic and I hope the moderators will not let people deviate from the topic and not allow abuse of a player and his personal life.


Polo Says:

LLTK if Danny Morris purpose is to insult and be condescending to everybody, he did achieve his purpose.


Long Live The King Says:

“This season I have been collecting choice postings from the more absurd of the anti-Murray brigade and now, feeling mean and unforgiving, I am going to remind everyone – especially the loons themselves – just how silly people can be on a forum.”

Kudos to you Colin. Danny, you have met your match. You asked for intelligent posters and you have got one in Colin.

Celebrate this historic day in tennis, everyone. Soon the hard courts will be upon us. For Roger, it will be clay to try and make the journey back to no.1 and this time, next year he might get the no.1 from Murray. I hope this will not be just a thought and with the top 4, you write them off at your own peril.


Brando Says:

@Colin: Excellent post and a completely reasonable one too considering the BS directed towards Muzza by Danny boy.


Polo Says:

Re: Colin’s post: Like


Long Live The King Says:

Polo:

Don’t kill the messenger. I know he did not lie about his education and career. I do not support everything he does but he does have a lot of tennis knowledge and information.

He is helping me with my dream of being a sports writer and I may be biased about his reasons for his posts but I have always made it clear I do not support his rudeness and arrogance. He is a different person outside this forum – like most of the internet users are.


Brando Says:

Re Dummy Morris: I’m sorry but: what a waste of life IF all he intends to do is agitate fans of other players with ridiculous BS. And TBH: that’s all he does here. Attacking, harassing fans of players he dislikes with sheer idiocy! IF that was his purpose: then he has fulfilled it with ease. But what a truly sad, pathetic and riddled with sheer lunacy it is for someone to hold such a purpose. A free tip for the Dummy: get a life or better yet: some psychiatric help!


WTF Says:

I missed it. How the hell did that happen?

I thought it was a possibility, but didn’t expect Djoker to go down in a straight setter. I don’t remember when he last lost a GS match in straights.

I totally expected Murray to allow the occasion to get to him as he always does.

Props to him for banishing those demons.

Nadal and Federer (who’ve both had his number at Wimbledon) going out early was the kind of luck he needed. I always felt that the stars needed to align for this to happen, and they kind of did, because I couldn’t see how either player would have lost to him.

Congratulations I guess to Britain for having a local champion at long last? Although was a Scot that won it. Guess you can’t have everything.


courbon Says:

@ LLKT: I’m sorry but I can not agree with you.Danny Morris is pretensious, arrogant and really bad tennis analyst because he got almost everything wrong.He is making a Tennis website?I wish you all the best with your blog (sincerely ) but bloke with that attitude will not attract any decent people to log in…you putted nicely-confidence and arrogance-two different things.
Anyway, I don’t know the guy so I will not rubbish him-enough of that.Lets us know about your blog.


WTF Says:

Before someone says I’m sour graping over Djoker’s loss, I actually wanted a Delpo vs Janowicz/Verdasco final.


Steve 27 Says:

Who said Andy had no balls?
after the “curse” that no British man since Fred Perry (they could not get English as Roger Taylor and Tim Henmann himself), ironically a Scot from Glasgow, gives immense joy to the whole nation and ends once and with the Nostalgia and the ghosts of the past.
Congratulations Sir Andy Murray, a whole life effort are rewarded with a day to remember, one afternoon for all eternity. My sincere congratulations to the followers of this great champion.


Polo Says:

LLTK, you do admit that Danny Morris has been rude and arrogant in his postings here. I am surprised that he is starting his own tennis/sports site, well maybe not too surprised considering how he fancies himself to be better that everyone. He is too biased and abusive to opinions contrary to his that I doubt how good that site is going to be. Who would want to go there just to get insulted?


Steve 27 Says:

Wimbledon Champion Andy Murray talks to the media
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAZBtnAuRh0


Fedkovic23 Says:

Well done Andy Murray. What a great achievement!


Okiegal Says:

Watching a replay, Joker just kicked his water bottle after getting broken. Missed that the first time. He show a bit of a temper at times.


Giles Says:

A hearty “well done” to Sean Randall as well. His curse/ jinx worked big time! Lol


andrea Says:

congrats to both players….and we finally have the whole ‘drought’ conversation over and done with, right?


M Says:

” ironically a Scot from Glasgow, gives immense joy to the whole nation and ends once and with the Nostalgia and the ghosts of the past.”

Isn’t AndyMur from Dunblane?

*throws hat in air*


Long Live The King Says:

Courbon:

Thank you for your nice words. As for my blog, I will also be looking at other venues. I do not place all my eggs in the same basket. I would definitely like nice posters like you to regularly visit my blog.

Polo: If you know him personally, you will realize he is a very different guy and at the risk of opening myself to abuse from others, he is a very successful person. He is 2 years younger than me and he has achieved much more than I can achieve in my lifetime. The guy is not yet 30 years and his knowledge extends over a lot of domains.

As I said, he is arrogant regarding certain topics but he is definitely very prudent regarding business and profession. I met him on another tennis site and he does post true to his self on that side and says good things about Murray. Like a lot of Federer fans, he does dislike Nadal.

Giles Says:
A hearty “well done” to Sean Randall as well. His curse/ jinx worked big time! Lol

July 7th, 2013 at 5:18 pm

Someone had to say it. I was waiting to see who will say it first. Sean jinx overpowered Britain jinx.


DC Says:

Its surprising that Nole could not recover from the simi final with Delpo to give a tougher fight.
Murray got all the luck he needed – Fed & Nadal out of the way, a relatively easier semi – final and an exhausted opponent. But all credit to Murray for getting the job done. His performance in the finals was awesome and even if Nole wasn’t exhausted, Murray would won the match.

Nole has played a lot of tennis and some very long & exhausting matches this year and will probably have a tougher HC season.I wont be surprised if Fed or Andy win US open this year.Fed seems to be preparing to peak at the US open and will probably have a good remaining year.


Polo Says:

LLTK, I’ll take your word about Danny Morris. You know him better. I only know him from this site. I hope that being older, and probably more mature, you can help temper his disposition so that all his talent could used for a better purpose instead of alienating people.

Good luck on your new endeavor.


Elena Says:

Great victory for Andy. Nole will be back at the US Open.

Wish Andy will win more Wimbledons.


Elena Says:

Danny Morris – You should listen to what Courbon or LLTK are saying.

You say lot of good things but it is also important how you say it.

I like some things you say like posters should talk about tennis and not other stuff on a tennis site. I agree with this point.

Everyone abusing Danny, read what Suzette said.


El Flaco Says:

DC Says:
Its surprising that Nole could not recover from the simi final with Delpo to give a tougher fight.
- – - – - – - – - – - – -

On another thread I commented how Djokovic should be fine physically for the final. He has proven before that he can recover from a 5 hour match(2012 AO semi) and win a 6 hour final. However, I didn’t realize what a mental toll the Delpo match took on Djokovic. His 2012 AO semi didn’t have the same stress level. There is a psychosomatic component to recovery so if the mind doesn’t fully recover the body won’t perform at its peak.


courbon Says:

@ LLKT: I’ll take your word for it.He just pissed me off today-that’s ALL.Tomorrow new day, I don’t hold the grudge..Good night, time for bed.


DC Says:

@EL Flaco – maybe its the Age factor creeping in . Nole is now 26 years and 2 months, same age as Fed when Fed won US Open 2007. Feds decline started in 2008.

Murray is also the same age, but has lot less miles.


steve-o Says:

El Flaco: Djokovic came back from two sets to love down, and two match points down, against Federer in 2011 USO semis, and then pounded Nadal down in four very physical sets for the title. Recovery, mental or otherwise, was not a problem for him then.

No, I think Murray simply wanted it more this time after being denied last year by Federer. He was hungrier, Djokovic perhaps a fraction less so after having won it already in 2011.

Then too, Murray’s slice and changes of pace bother Djokovic more than Nadal’s game does. He started trying to charge the net too often, and it didn’t work.


Elena Says:

@El Flaco and @DC

Nole has done so many comebacks in past, we think he is magician. He has limits.

He will try to do well at US open and finish year no.1


Steve 27 Says:

M, read this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Murray

Anyone who has seen the level of tennis on grass of Andy, do not understand how anyone has doubted the British victory. The Serb is good but not quite. In clay he is superior and the only reason he have not gotten a title in RG so far: Rafa Nadal.


Kimberly Says:

the only thing that is not ideal for Murray is his “date” for the champion ball is Bartoli. I bet he would rather it be Kirilenko or Ivanovic!

Kidding, I know he is with Kim, but at least for the pictures.


DC Says:

@ Elena – looks like Murray is playing more intelligent tennis. Nole for some reasons looks like a downgraded version of Nole 2011.Nevertheless, hope for an exciting HC season ahead and look forward to the big 4 gang returning to the best of their abilities and giving their fans for something or the other to cheer for.


Steve 27 Says:

ATP Race 2013
1 Rafael Nadal 7010
2 Novak Djokovic 6230
3 Andy Murray 5160
4 David Ferrer 4440
5 Tomas Berdych 2775
6 Roger Federer 2515
7 Jo Wilfried Tsonga 2455
8 Juan Martin Del Potro 2370
9 Stanislas Wawrinka 2150
10 Richard Gasquet 1855


racquet Says:

I had to travel so only just caught up with the wonderful news. I’m so proud of Andy. Lendl deserves a bonus. I’m also moved by Novak’s graciousness in defeat.

Judging by all these front covers I think this is kind of a big deal in the UK-

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BOmpKHwCAAA5j7W.jpg:large


Kimberly Says:

A good day for the Brits: Tennis X Hippy Chick has won the bracket challenge, I placed second, my son third, and Margot a close fourth.


Wog boy Says:

Congrats to Andy and his fans, well deserved win.

As for my man, he didn’t have it last night for whatever reason, still proud to be Nole’s fan, he reached 11th GS final and lost to better man on a day.

He will be back ready for HC season, I have no foubt about that. Last year he had four tough losses this time around (FO, Wimbledon, Andy and Delpo Olympic games) and he finished the year strong. Looking forward for the rest of the season. Are we going to have four different GS winners this year too?


Steve 27 Says:

Are we going to have four different GS winners this year too?
No, Andy will win UO said Jamie and I believe Murray is the favorite.


skeezer Says:

Congrats Alison on the Bracket!! Today must be a great day ;)


skeezer Says:

Greatest thing that ever hapeened to Murray in regards to Tennis is L E N D L. Best move for a Coach he ever could have done.


El Flaco Says:

Not all 5 set matches are created equal Steve-O. Djokovic said the Delpo match was one of the most drama-filled of his career comparable to the AO final against Nadal. He didn’t compare it to the consecutive 5 setters against Federer at the USO or the AO semi against Murray.

Right on Skeezer. Lendl was the missing link. It’s not a coincidence that Murray has won 2 slams and a gold medal since hiring him. Before that he had a goose egg.

Lendl wasn’t going to change his playing style, but there is no question he has beefed up his forehand. I didn’t see it for many of these matches, but he brought it out for the final. He wasn’t brushing up the back of the ball and following through behind his head like he did constantly in the Janowicz and Verdasco matches. He was hitting through the ball and following through across his body in the final. For me that was a sign he was relaxed.


NYC Says:

Well done by Murray. But as I watched the final set it struck me that the best volley players are long gone. There were missed volleys in today´s final that never would have been missed by some of the past volley experts. I guess that´s how it is in today´s tennis.


El Flaco Says:

“Andy and Lendl joined forces in 2011 after they were introduced to each other through former professional Darren Cahill, now a coach and commentator.”

“Andy is the one who has made the decision to hire Ivan, to listen to Ivan and to hire a sports psychologist.”

“What’s changed for Andy is what he is hearing from Ivan as well as his ability to be a little bit more resolute out on the court.”

“Both mentally and tactically, he is playing a different level of tennis than he was before.

“He showed his old self in those first two sets against Verdasco, but then he looked as though he
remembered what he had been told by Ivan about shutting up and putting up, and getting on with the business of what he had to do.”

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/tennis/revealed-secret-behind-andy-murray-2034268


Tennis Vagabond Says:

An amazing win for Andy, he played superbly. But this was Championship by Moonball.
Any shots off Andy’s racquet with any resemblance to a winner was purely accidental.
This was the most passive Slam final since, well, the USO final between these two.
These are two incredible tennis players; their record in the last year of Slams is absolutely dominant.
But they don’t pair well, in my opinion.

Djokovic, somehow just looked like he didn’t want to be there today. Every once in a while he’d dig in and play some incredible gritty tennis, then he’d sit back and shank a few. It was a rare off day in a finals for him.

This tournament has really cranked up the storylines. Great to have Murray absolutely established as an all time great, at the top, with not only the expected rearguard action from Rafa and Fed, but from Del Potro and Janowicz from below, and maybe Berdych and Tsonga will challenge with less fear now too.


Tennis Vagabond Says:

NYC, very true. Even the best volleyers today are not in the class of the 80′s and 90′s players. Watch McEnroe, Edberg or Sampras matches (there are Edberg/Sampras and Edberg/Mac on youtube), the quality of the volleying is insane. Today’s players almost always hit soft volleys, and basically go short or deep. Edberg’s volleys were lasers into the corners. And all with old racquets and strings too.
You have to assume that evolution has been by necessity and volleyers can’t survive today. But it would be neat to see if say, Rafa could beat Edberg at the net the way he beats Fed.


Wog boy Says:

This what Nole said on his FB:

“I had two amazing weeks here in London. I really enjoyed on court and I thought i played really good tennis. Unfortunately, not today. Andy was a better player and all the credit to him. This is fantastic achievement for him and his country. On the other note, I will take some rest and start preparing for the US Open tour. With my charity foundation, Novak Djokovic Foundation i will host a fundraising event tomorrow in Roundhouse in London. We hope to raise a lot of funds for unprivileged children. Good times are ahead :)”

As one good friend of mine said:

“He always conducts himself with such dignity.”


Paradox Says:

Dumby Morris, are you lying and crying somewhere ,maybe you are fast asleep on your ”beloved” clay with full of sworrow.What a creep!


Fedster Says:

I am very delighted to see the chest thumping, shirt tearing, yelling guerilla put in his place.


Fedster Says:

Thanks to Murray….we are saved from the shirt tearing guerilla style celebrations.


Nadal Says:

Congratulations to Murray !

The thing is, this Wimbledon was so open anyone could have won it. However, had I been there……


Tennis Vagabond Says:

Murray and Novak will rack up a few more Slams in the next few years, no doubt about it. Even if Del Potro joins the mix, I can’t see him surpassing those two.

In history’s cycle, Murray and Novak are Edberg and Becker to Rafa’s Lendl and Fed’s MacEnroe.


Polo Says:

Would anybody be interested in supporting Danny Morris’ planned tennis/sport site?


skeezer Says:

Rafafanatics finally come out of there Gopher holes…only when its safe to either toot Rafa or condemn Fed in the usual indirect way. I don’t support all DM, but you guys are so predictable and you encourage these types by your posts of all Rafa, all the time, no one else matters. NOw coming out proves and shows they will never get over the history of losing to Nole 7 Finals in a row. Too bad.

Me? I hope Andole battle it out for Slams in years to come, it will be sweet ;). But something tells me there is some new guys this next year that are going to make there mark.

In the end of this generation, the all time GOAT will be more respected than ever!

____

El Flaco
Great post on the Lendl factor :)

TV,

Agree it only takes a back in time you tube look to see the volleyers of today just don’t know how to play the transition game. And the top 4 complain that the ball moves too fast. Pfft! On your approach shot, try hitting the ball deep for once!


Nirmal Kumar Says:

Last two weeks has been fantastic story line for tennis. Hopefully a new star was born (Janco) and a great competitor (Del Po) getting back to his top form again. These two guys can get into lot of injuries, because of their height and power hitting. Del Po had shown he is already a victim of it, need to see about Janco how he shapes up. Berdy is one of the very few tall players who had been immune to injuries, but he plays quite compact tennis and generate much easier power then these two.

I’m not a big fan of tennis Andy has been playing in this tournament, but he really showed his skill in the finals. Still this is not grass court tennis which is a pity. He moves great on grass, but that’s it. Everything else is slow hard court tennis here.

Obviously the last match has taken too much toll on Novak. This is what happens with the kind of competition we have today. People have started criticizing Novak for his few losses in the final. But people forget that he has been the most consistent top player for past 3 years. Already he is the 2nd best in the consecutive semis played and only player capable of beating Nadal on clay and Roger on USO. These are great abilities which Murray may never posses.

Let’s not count Novak out. He has won a lot against all time great champions, not just against one time slam champions.


skeezer Says:

NK,

Now that was a good post, and thanks for the objective contribution. I think this Wimby just showed how important physical and mental fitness is. You cannot win on talent alone anymore. Murray imo was ready mentally, and he flatly put a beatdown on Nole physically, which was a shock honestly. This is a guy(Nole) who was the only guy to take it too Rafa physically.

Nole and Murray played very physical Tennis in the beginning, with very long rallies. For what ever reason, Murray was up to the ask and Nole wasn’t. Murray in my imo just wore him down. A tribute to coach Lendl and Murrays commitment to top shape. Nole? He’s there, he just needs to rewind his performances back in 2011. He hung in there no matter what and created big shots when it mattered. Frankly, he looked a little spent.

If you are a complete power hitter, you can hit through this stuff( Rally Tennis ), but you must be on. The danger of the power hitter is that you have to be consistent every match at it, a tall order. The Rally hitter, is way more consistent, but can be upset to the power player ( Birdsh!t, Tsonga, JJ, etc ). As TV mentioned, for the global tennis fan, this is not the most exciting Tennis to watch.

Todays game is the Rally hitter. The next Gen I suspect will bring the big power back with and consistency. When that happens, the next shift in tennis begins. We can all see a peek of it with the likes of JJ and Delpo’s awesome FH….


skeezer Says:

BTW a side note, to the fans that are already saying who is the greatest this and that with this generation. I know this is a Murray thread and rightly so, he performed miraculously with all the 77 years of pressure no doubt, and deserves all the glory and adulation.

But to the riding horse fans, and they know who they are, this must be noted.:

What is the age average of the top 3? 26.5? Murray, Nole and Rafa? How many Slams do they have as of now?

At 27, Rafa has 12. Murray at 26 has ….2. Nole has at 26…..has…..6.

Fed…at 27…..had 15.

Seeing these factual numbers, where do you think any of these players will have in GS titles @ 31?


Bada Bing Says:

Skeezer,by then Nole will have a career slam. Is there any doubt about that? What do you think Nole will have?


Bada Bing Says:

Polo
I might be interested in supporting DMs sport site. What are the particulars? Do tell.


Bada Bing Says:

Novak Djokovic spoke very eloquently after the match, great sportsman that he is. Novak is a winner whether he actually wins a match or loses it because of his generous attitude toward his opponents. What a guy! What an inspiration! Go, Noleeeeeeee!


skeezer Says:

@Bada Bing,

There is no reason why Nole will not have a crack @ FO. He is so very close. If I was a betting man, I would put dinero on him. HIs style of game suits Clay imo more than Grass.

Yes, his PR team and him have represented the Tennis game fantastic. Now, his respect to all players and the game when he speaks is representative of a worlds # 1 player. His maturity has showed since the old days of trying to make his mark on the tour. It is refreshing, articulate, and head and shoulders above others who cannot communicate with the world when representing the Tennis game globally.

Representing the Tennis game as #1 is a tall order, and there is more to just saying “almost impossible” and “always difficult”. Paying homage to the past, the present, and realizing the moment when Andy won and complementing his country, his fans, and his team was a worthy value of the top player of the sport. Hats off to Novak, and a big bow and salute to Andy Murray, winner of the most prestigious tennis tournament in the world


Nirmal Kumar Says:

skeezer, problem with big hitters is going to be their health. I have not seen a power hitter able to sustain without getting injured frequently. If Safin had stayed health we might have been talking of a guy with 6-8 slams already. Lot of people think he just mentally went away from tennis. That’s not entirely true. He was marred more by injuries and he did not have the mental strength to come back and have the commitment required.

We may be seeing the version of Safin in Janco, if he can put together few things. He may not be as talented as Safin, but we never know where he can end up with.

Can these guys remain injury free? That would be the biggest question mark, not just the still.


moam Says:

It only took 77 years but the deed is done. Congrats to Andy Murray, Ivan Lendl and all of UK. As a tribute to Murray’s great journey, if you find yourself in the mood to read, below are posts from “martins take” which tracked Murray’s progression from wannabe progression to champion.
http://martinstake128.wordpress.com/2012/02/03/ivan-lendl-and-the-maturation-of-murray/

http://martinstake128.wordpress.com/2012/06/24/wimbledon-the-proving-ground/

http://martinstake128.wordpress.com/2012/07/06/mature-murray-on-the-verge/

http://martinstake128.wordpress.com/2012/09/12/murray-moves-the-mountain-the-brits-are-finally-free/

http://martinstake128.wordpress.com/2013/07/01/2013-wimbledon-a-haunting/


Andrew Miller Says:

Unbelievable from Murray. Maybe the most significant win in tennis we’ve had in a long time. Probably the next biggest one will be when we have a new U.S. slam champ on the ATP ledger of things.


skeezer Says:

“Maybe the most significant win in tennis we’ve had in a long time. ”

Couldn’t agree more AM…btw…nice initials ;)


Colin Says:

Both Nole and Andy looked tired for much of the match, but Andy was just a bit fitter on the day. Regarding the lack of successful volleying, they were both trying to volley,but maybe fatigue took the edge off their sharpness at the net.

Nole’s amazing ability to recover quickly from long matches has been something we all took for granted. If – and I emphasise “if” – he is losing this resilience, the upper reaches of the men’s game will see big changes, starting at the USO.


skeezer Says:

To the Murray / Nole fans… most excellent write up on the match;

http://espn.go.com/new-york/story/_/id/9456649/wimbledon-andy-murray-ends-national-nightmare


Bada Bing Says:

Andrew Miller
The US is starving for a winner. I used to think Isner/Querrey could do something big for the red, white and blue but it’s just not happening. I don’t really see anyone on the horizon except Sock or Harrison and they are not showing much. I fear the drought will last a few years longer.


TennisZod Says:

I feel so bad, my boy lost a GS final in straight sets as world no.1 like Federer. The main reason Murray won was because my boy wasn’t moving too well on grass without those pimpled shoes. They shouldn’t have banned his shoes. Maybe they decided all was fair in love and tennis.


skeezer Says:

^well there was some intelligent conversations going on here but whatevers….out.


TennisZod Says:

Now I can almost understand how Federer fans must have felt when Roger got the beating of his at RG 2008 final. Well, at least my boy Djokovic fought hard like he always does. Still proud of him. No bagel for him in GS final. I know he will win USO and remain no.1 this year. Ajde Nole!


TennisZod Says:

The beating of his career


Michael Says:

Hearty Congratulations to Andy, Mission Lendl and his legion of fans. It is an emphatic victory and also unprecedented in the sense he becomes the first British Player since Fred Parry eight decades ago to kiss the Wimbledon crown. You have to appreciate the gall and guts of Andy even if you are not his fan. Here was a player who has been unsuccessful in most of the finals of majors and last year his title bid was thwarted by the silken skills of Roger who played near perfect Tennis. Shrugging aside those disappointments he came into this match as an under dog where Novak was fancied as the favourite to win it. But Andy had other plans. He played probably the best match of his life with his unbelievable retrieving skills, superior return of serves and controlled aggression combined with perfection. Novak was truly outsmarted from the back of the court by Andy and even his first serves were not working against the returning power and ability of Andy. Andy played strategically and beautifully to execute his first win and thereby cornering the glory of achieving what is considered as the pinnacle in this sport. I think Andy’s game is best suited for grass courts and it would not be a surprise if he wins here twice more.


Michael Says:

Poor Novak. He was thoroughly demoralized after that French Open shock semi final defeat where he was 4-2 up in the final set and was about to complete the most difficult task in this sport of beating Rafa at Rolland Garros. But he couldn’t complete the task and was visibly disappointed. He came into Wimbledon as the favourite and he shrugged aside his disappointment at the French and was rediscovering his form although grass court was not his cup of tea. Till the quarter finals he didn’t lose a set and his first serves were razor sharp and helped him in all his matches in the most important moments. Against Del Potro, it was a gruelling contest which Novak finally came through courtesy his serving prowess which acquired a new dimension and became a potent weapon. However, against Andy, things became difficult. Nothing was working in favour of him. His oncourt demeanours didn’t look that he was positive and he wore a very tired look when he came to the court and I could see his hands shivering when he was touching his kit and shaking the racquet. It seemed that he was more nervous than Andy was and that is unusual about Novak. His first serves didn’t work and the winning percentage was just under 50% which gives an idea as to about how effective it was. His groundstrokes were missing the lines and finding the net often. He made uncharacteristically a lot of UEs. Adding to the misery, some of the line calls were outrageous and going against him. He couldn’t even volley properly the few times he came to the net. All in all, his game was shaken mostly by Andy’s brilliance and partly by the draining out his match with Del Potro. He showed glimpses of how a big fighter he is in the last stages of the match when he thwarted three championship points but when it seemed that he was going to extend the match somehow he once again a backhand error which gifted the match to Andy. For Novak, he has to fight another day. Best luck to him.


Michael Says:

The officiating by the Umpire was horrible to say the least. He overturned a linesman call when clearly was out as showed by the hawk eye and made many silly errors and unfortunately Novak was at the receiving end. It came about when Novak was so much agitated by the spate of Umpiring and line call errors that he literally vent out his frustration at the Umpire and asking him as to what was really happening. He was thoroughly justified in his outburst. There was also an outrageous call in the breakpoint of the first set when Andy was serving where Novak seemed quite unlucky when the hawk eye showed that the ball was clearly in. All in all, it would be in the fitness of things if Umpires become more professional like the players.


metan Says:

Michael.

Great post as usual.

Last night we watched incredible Andy’s game that we had never seen before. But as you said great credit to his coach who is the one brings out the best of Andy after so many years.


Bada Bing Says:

Michael;
Novak said it himself in an interview after a match….Grass is not my preferred surface. I’m so glad he achieved it when he did and Gencic got to see it. He’s doing a slow creep to a RG win. I have to keep hoping he will get one within three years.


Michael Says:

Metan,

Thanks.

I agree. It was brilliant grass court Tennis executed by Andy akin to what Roger used to do here in his hey days. Lendl should surely get the credit for he made Andy what he is. Not that Andy was a bad player before he came to the scene. But be transformed Andy to become a Champion at the US as well as the most coveted trophy in Tennis – Wimbledon.


Michael Says:

Bada Bing,

Novak will surely make a come back. He is a fighter to the core.


skeezer Says:

Well, how many times do we hear of the singular moment of 2008 final (on Clay no doubt). Really, who the f&uck cares?

If i lost that match but had 17 Slams even I, the lowly skeezer would be laughing in your face! Like that matters!! ROFL!

——-
Thanks all for not recognizing the TennisZod aka RFF aka HR aka Legend, who’s main goal is to mock tennis fans and the game.
Hope you would join in that “it” should be banned from this site, as the contrIbution is for what? Humor is all good, but constant mockery is not and disrespectful to the game and fans. Admin knows who is posting what.

Be forewarned, a mockery Murray fan will soon take effect……do you really think its stops with HR, RFF and TZ?

Just send an email to the admin at the front page of this site…..if not, enjoy the mockery of your posts as fans.


James Says:

In an era of Roger Federer and Rafael Nadal, it is an incredible achievement for both Novak Djokovic and Andy Murray to win multiple Slams. It indeed is a golden era of tennis with 4 great champions.

Rafa Nadal with his 7 titles, including the French Open, is the best player of 2013 so far, but it is Andy Murray who is the best player in the last two years with the Olympic gold, US Open and now Wimbledon.


Nirmal Kumar Says:

It was brilliant grass court Tennis executed by Andy akin to what Roger used to do here in his hey days

Michael, Please stop here. I have seen Roger play tennis from 1999. You think this is how Roger played at Wimbledon the way Andy played. What Andy played was never a grass court tennis. He won and it was great, but to say it’s akin to type of tennis Roger played is a huge embarrassment to Roger.

Roger did play grass court tennis and no one after him is playing it. Let’s not get carried away.


Nirmal Kumar Says:

James,

The biggest problem for Murray is his consistency and capabilities on all surfaces. Good thing is he is winning more big title, which was opposite before for him. Once he was king of HC masters, but came up short at big ones. Now is the reverse, and he consistently fails on clay tournaments.

He needs to find balance the way Novak has. Novak can have a successful season winning from Jan to Nov in a year. He can beat Nadal on clay and Roger / Murray on HC’s. Murray has not shown it yet.

For me he looked much fresher in the finals than Novak. That mostly sealed the deal for him. Ofcourse he played some good tennis too.


James Says:

@TennisZod,

That RG 2008 final changed the Fedal rivalry forever. Roger could never beat Rafa again in Slams. But to be fair, Nadal was a different animal that year. Many Federer fans don’t call him the beast for nothing. He would have beaten the 2011 Djokovic in straight sets that day on the Paris dirt. This was a Nadal without his knee problem and determined to win the world. The Nadal you see now is not as fast as he was back then. Like some posters have said, Roger was kind of unlucky to be the one facing the clay GOAT at his best on that final. But since then you’d know that Roger and Rafa met again at another RG final in 2011 which Rafa won in 4 sets, not 3 and no bagel. Also regardless of how many times Rafa has beaten Roger, no one can take away his 17 Slams which is 3 more than Samprass’ 14, 5 more than Rafa’s 12 and 11, yes 11 more than your idol Djokovic’s. Roger Federer simply is the most successful male tennis player ever.


holdserve Says:

Great win for Muzza!!!
Now on to US Open! So far the 3 slams this year have been shared by Djokovic, Rafa and Muzza. If one of these players wins US Open he will likely end the year at No. 1. So far Rafa is leading the race to London.


Michael Says:

Nirmal,

It is not getting carried away. I stated the obvious. It was near perfect Tennis from Andy which is similar to what Roger used to do on Grass in his hey days. I never compared their respective styles. You say Andy has not played Grass court Tennis. Then what did he play ?? Do you mean to say that the players of today serve and volley in Grass courts as they were doing in the 1990s and early 2000s. Those days are dead. Even Roger is hesitant to come to the net these days even on Grass. Now it is all about the ground strokes from the back of the court and how healthy you are in that department will steer your destiny.


James Says:

“Roger did play grass court tennis and no one after him is playing it.”

Not true, @NK. There are grass court specialists playing grass court tennis, including the guy who beat Roger in the 2nd round of Wimby. It’s just the baseline players are playing their game better and are more successful in the last few years, maybe decade. But I agree, Andy did not play like Roger used to. Andy played more like Rafa albeit with better serve and less forehand power. His ball retrieving skills display in the final was what I thought Rafa used to do.


Michael Says:

James,

“He would have beaten the 2011 Djokovic in straight sets that day on the Paris dirt”

Well, I cannot agree to this. This is preposterous. Novak was in incredible form that year and having beaten Rafa both at Indian Wells, Miami, Madrid and Rome, he was having the momentum on his side and had he been in the finals, we cannot speculate now about the result. But what I can say for sure is that it would not have been very easy for Rafa since he doubted his ability against Novak after those losses. Also, he was not in the best of form too.


Margot Says:

@Colin
Do you think Andy might come out of permanent residence in the trunk and get into the funk now?….No, probably not..;)
@michael 12.19
Gr8 post, you summed up A’s play beautifully. He was so gutsy wasn’t he? First person he hugged was Ivan, very significant.n
For the records Andy was born in Glasgow.


James Says:

@NK, I agree that Andy isn’t as successful on all surfaces as Novak. Novak has reached all the Grand Slam finals which Andy is yet to do. But after seeing his performance this tournament, I get a feeling he’s gonna be more successful on clay now than before. And I won’t be too surprised if we see him reach the RG final next year. But I also have to say that Andy needs to be a little more aggressive with his groundstrokes if he is to achieve more success against Rafa. You don’t beat Rafa with your defense. Having said that, Andy always had the game to win multiple slams and I think he’s gonna be very hard to beat for anyone from now on. The Rogers cup in Montreal is gonna be so exciting with Roger and Rafa also there with Andy and Novak and Delpo. This is exciting.


Michael Says:

Margot,

Congratulations. You should also be on top of the world. Your man won and he played incredibly well. My hats off to him. He deserves it. I was just in amazement of what he produced on court. Yeah, he hugged Ivan, but forget to hug his Mother in the heat of the moment. Finally, he made amends by hugging her. The way he played convinces me that he is not going to stop with just one Wimbledon.


James Says:

True @Michael, Andy played near perfect tennis. Even Novak said that he threw everything at Andy but it wasn’t enough. Novak at times looked clueless as how to deal with Andy in the final yesterday.


Michael Says:

James,

Somehow I get a feeling that Novak looked totally out of sorts yesterday. Andy’s brilliance too played a role. However, I still cannot understand why he was not in the good of moods. Even that aggression that he normally shows on court was lacking. His traditional adrenaline fist pumping and that chest thumbing was nowhere to be found. He was leading in both the second and third sets but he squandered it with some uncharacteristic UEs and Andy’s exquisite tennis in moments. All in all, he looked pretty jaded and couldn’t inspire confidence that would make a match out of it.


Nirmal Kumar Says:

Michael,

Have you seen Roger break Rafa in the 5th set in 2007 finals. That’s the real grass court tennis. First thing a decent grass court player would do is to protect his serve. If you look at the number of times he got broken in the finals, that’s atrocious. Basically you need not S & V to be a grass court specialist. But you should be a best second shot player to be good grass court tennis player, which is what Roger is.That’s what Sampras was. People have to look back at Sampras tennis than carried away by comments on his great serve. You should know how good these guys were then the ball came back to them and how they treated their second shot.

Just because Roger stays back, you think Murray can be compared to him is not fair. In fact every top player stays back today, that does not make them good grass court player. Even DelPo ran excellently against Novak. You don’t run around the grass courts the way Andy does, it was more a slow hard court tennis he was playing.

Grass court is all about 1st strike tennis, not just S & V tennis.


James Says:

@Michael,

I don’t know why but yesterday Novak looked as nervous as Andy, perhaps even more. Watching him, I got this feeling that he was trying to control his aggression as not to turn the crowd against him completely. From what I’ve seen of Novak, he doesn’t seem to perform too well when the crowd is against him.

Apart from Andy’s brilliant serves, I thought his return of Novak’s serves was very impressive. The stats show that Novak got 65% of his 1st serves in, while Andy got 64%. Andy’s 2nd serve was also not bad while Novak’s 2nd serve was really put to test by Andy.


Michael Says:

Nirmal,

If Grass court Tennis is all about first strike Tennis, then today it is only Del Potro and Berdych who can be classified as good grass court players. Tennis has evolved and much water has flowed since then. I am happy that you have high regards for Roger as a Grass Court player and his style is quite different from Andy. I do not differ on that. But today Grass court Tennis is not only about serving and flat hitting. It is also about the art of retrieving and staying in the rally. I never compared Andy to Roger. I only said that he played near perfect Tennis like him. Style is different and may vary.


Michael Says:

James,

Andy’s was not so successful on his second serves and the conversion percentage was quite low. What mattered was that he aced on crucial moments of the match or hit a bang on serve which makes all the difference.


James Says:

I agree with Michael that grass court tennis isn’t all about first strike. I don’t think any player could do it against the likes of Rafa, Novak, Andy. They are so good on the return game that you can’t do without playing your baseline game.


Margot Says:

@Michael
Still pinching myself.
As far as Nole is concerned, the match with Delpotro was the most terrific match imaginable, but to me Nole looked out of sorts in that one too eg his backhand DTL was off and also he was shanking his forehand. His amazing do or die attitude got him through, but for me, he was not his best.
Just my take.


Michael Says:

Margot,

Agree. Novak was not at his best. Something was wrong with him. I can only spectulate what is the exact problem ??


James Says:

In other news, Roger Federer has dropped to no.5 in the ATP ranking for the first time since 2003.


Nirmal Kumar Says:

Michael,

I agree style has changed today. I understand what it takes to win these days on grass. But that’s not grass court tennis, which is what my point is.

Also to say Murray played flawless tennis is wrong. You don’t get broken close to 5-6 times on grass by playing flawless tennis. He was down every set except maybe the 1st one. He was made to look better by Novak, since he was sub par by his standards.

I have no problem in giving credit to Andy. If there is one player who deserves a Wimby, it has to be him. He is a great example of never say die attitude. After having so many brutal losses, he never went away from competing. He came back again and again, took right decisions, improved his tennis, which only few great competitors can do. Hats off to him for that.

I’m still reluctant to put him along with Roger on grass.


Nirmal Kumar Says:

James,

It’s wrong to say they cannot play. Roger showed it last year you can play 1st strike tennis against Novak and Andy. He was losing against andy when he was playing behind baseline. When he let is lose, I don’t think Andy broke him even once.

Even Roger lost in 2nd round to a proper grass court tennis, just that the guy is not good enough to maintain it for match after match.

I believe things would change and good grass court tennis would come back. Remember lot of people written off grass court tennis in 2002 when we had Hewitt and Nalby in finals, but next year it was S & V tennis in the finals. Even till 2005 it was more a S & V tennis played by Roger at Wimbledon.


TennisZod Says:

Congratulations Margot! As a proud No1e fan I must swallow my pride and give credit where its due. Your guy played amazing and it helped that my boy didn’t play his best. Me and my friend Danny boy had cockily predicted a straight sets win for No1e but it wasn’t to be. The reverse happened :( I hope you understand that right now me and Danny Morris are busy wiping the eggs off our face *sigh*
congratulations again. Go celebrate it. I’ll pretend I’m happy for you and other Murray fans.


Michael Says:

Nirmal,

Obviously you cannot league Andy with Roger. One cannot equal 7 as simple as that.

I tend to agree with you on the sub par quality of Novak’s game which has something to do with the result.

However, today play on all courts look quite similar. There seems to be little difference except with the bounce.


Possum Says:

Congrats to Murray. Well deserved. The final underlined that these two are either at their peak or not far off and during the first set both were playing high quality tennis, but in the end the final was nothing special (for viewers other than Brits). Heavy groundstrokes were the order of the day but what was missing was variety and that element of magic. Only one player can provide those elements and he lost in the second round. Fed’s days are numbered and tennis will be the poorer when that day sadly arrives.


grendel Says:

Before the tournament began, I wondered how Djokovic would react to his loss in Paris – a match he should have won. Tim Henman again pointed this out yesterday, and it is clear enough to almost everybody. But even if you want to make the opposite case, it doesn’t make any difference, because in this matter of morale, perception is all. Djokovic, along with most people, will certainly have felt that he should have won.

Given the huge importance he attached to winning the French, the question which was in my mind two weeks ago was how would this defeat, and in particular the manner of the defeat, impact on Djokovic’s mentality?

Arguably, we have our answer. Many have noticed that Djokovic did not seem quite himself yesterday. Maybe the draining delPo match was to a degree responsible, but Djokovic has played 5 set semis before without it noticeably tiring him for the final. I can’t help suspecting that the shadow of that massive banana skin slip is still haunting him. Proper exorcism is unlikely to take place until RG 2014.


Long Live The King Says:

Roger losing to a S &V player at nearly 32 years proves nothing. Does anyone believe Stakhovsky would have won a set against Federer at Federer’s prime? I am sure even Roger’s biggest critics might give a set or 2 in 5 matches, but surely not a match.

The truth is – a power hitter like Janowicz or Delpotro got worn down by counterpunchers or relatively defensive players – Djokovic/Murray.

This would not have happpened in the faster conditions at wimbledon in 90s. The game has tilted in favour of the baseliner. There are a number of reasons – that is an entirely different topic.

Till I see a player S and V their way to a slam win like Sampras, I am not going to support the claim that S and V will do the same magic it did in 90s.

No one is preventing Berdych/Janowicz/Tsonga from serve and volleying. Yet these guys have done 0 damage so far. Even Janowicz who is the best bet for the future is a power baseliner who is aggressive – like Federer/Agassi. Yes he’s got some touch but surely Federer has much more touch in his game than Janowicz. Check Federer’s win over sampras in 2001 Wimbledon. Show me a youngster who did that in the last 3 years? No one.

Serve and Volley is a dinosaur in our sport. That is the harsh truth.


grendel Says:

In the middle of the Stakhovsky/Melzer match, when Stak was playing some exhilarating tennis, I wondered why S&V could not make some kind of comeback. A poster kindly told me that on today’s surfaces, the S&V player would end up being endlessly passed. Well, not being entirely ignorant, I knew of course that this was the received wisdom – the question is, is it true – without qualification?

I can’t help suspecting a mindset comes into this. Occasionally, almost every player does a S&V by way of surprise, and it frequently works. Take the surprise element out, the argument goes, and it wouldn’t. But what constitutes surprise? How often may you execute and still catch your opponent napping? Not obvious. But more: since the consensus is: S&V doesn’t really work, why bother acquiring the skills to make it work? Any technique, to function effectively, must be honed, and obviously this is particularly true w.r.t. the great players. But it is precisely them who refuse to really try. The best serve and volleyers – Stakhovsky, Stepanek, Llodra – are all relatively minor performers. Actually, Llodra was not born to play S&V – this was a deliberate decision he took, and he consciously transformed the baseline techniques he had been brought up on.

It follows, the top rank players could, up to a certain point, do the same. If they don’t, arguably this will not be a rational decision but an automatic one. “Nobody important does S&V so why should I waste precious time learning difficult and questionable techniques” would be the trend of thought. There is an innate conservatism at work here which takes a kind of genius to break through.

At the heart of S&V is uncertainty. There is an element of the gamble which is unacceptable to players who spend endless hours mapping the positions on the court into their playing arm so that, in theory, they can never be surprised. One day, a great player will arrive who will intuitively grasp that the S&V is a real weapon, not just a surprise bullet, which deserves real attention and which, properly learnt, can lead to glory.


Nirmal Kumar Says:

It’s a general consensus that today players cannot play S & V tennis, which most likely to be true. But what could be the reason for the change. I could think of following reasons.

1) Strings – people comment mostly on the surface being the reason, but along with surface it’s the strings which are making the big difference. Even slowing down the courts are mostly due to the strings which are being used, where players can hit the kind of winners from 20 feet behind the baseline. Some of Novak’s retrieval against Delpo in the semis and winners Rafa produced in the semis against Novak would not have been possible without the strings.

2) Bad bounce at grass courts : I remember Laver commented on why they played S & V tennis. It was more because of the bad bounce in the grass courts. There is no way they could play baseline rallies when they have no clue how the ball is going to bounce. And most of the tournaments were played on grass. The obvious goal was to hit the ball before it bounces. But that’s not the case in today’s tennis. Most of the tournaments are played in HC where the bounce is even and it’s the same even in Grass courts.

So it’s understandable today’s players cannot play S & V consistently because they have not learnt that skills. They learn tennis on HC, where the bounce is pretty even.

I was surprised when commentator stated that Janco never played S & V entire tournament except for one point against Murray. I’m not too sure about this, as I have not seen his matches except the SF match.

When people question why can’s players like Berdych and other power hitters cannot play S & V, that’s because they were not taught to play them. They are HC players and not grass court players.


jamie Says:

If Djokovic is letting his losses at RG in 2012 and 2013 damage the rest of his year like we saw in 2012 and we will see in 2013 since he won’t win the USO this year either(Murray will) then that sucks for him because he won’t win RG in 2014 either(Nadal will)….

2015 is the year Djokovic will finally win RG….


Danny Morris Says:

“One day, a great player will arrive who will intuitively grasp that the S&V is a real weapon, not just a surprise bullet, which deserves real attention and which, properly learnt, can lead to glory.”

Keep dreaming.


Ben Pronin Says:

I have to say, big big big congratulations to Andy Murray (and all of his fans and the entire UK). As upset as I am that Djokovic lost, I am quite happy for Murray. It’s simply huge.

It’s too bad Djokovic couldn’t extend the match, but I can’t be too upset. Years ago I said that these two would eventually have an all-time rivalry. It took them a little while to get started but in the past 2 years they’ve split 4 slam meetings. They’re 2-2 in slam finals alone. And they’ve given us several classic matches both at the slams and outside of them. If the Fedal era is truly over, the future looks pretty bright with a Murrovic (Djokurray?) era. Not to discount Nadal or Federer, of course, but I really feel like these two are natural rivals.

It’s been a tough month for Djokovic fans and I’m emotionally spent. I’m probably going to take a little break. But again, big congratulations to Murray and Lendl. It’s really awesome to see dreams come true like this.


Long Live The King Says:

I think I would really be convinced that SnV will do this magic, if a person actually puts up the results and then talks.

The overwhelming proof from the last decade is that power baseline trumps SnV. Wimbledon officials are on record stating they have made efforts to slow down conditions. ATP uses heavier balls, if they want to go back to the serve fests of 90s, they can just take a small step and use lighter balls.

Let us not forget SnV was never this elixir which champions used to win on all surfaces. Sampras, mcenroe edberg, becker achieved squat on the 2 slowest slams – AO and FO. I would be surprised if Federer/Nadal lose more than 1 in 10 matches at AO to these players employing SnV on today’s courts and at the FO, they will be lucky to win a match.

Remember, Sampras never beat Agassi at AO or FO.

As I said, ATP/ITF intentionally made a move towards power baseline. I am not complaining. The tennis I have seen in the last 10 years has been of the very highest quality. I am certain Federer/Nadal would make great SnV players if they had to play in the 90s. I am not sure the players from that era can make the transition to today’s game so easily.


ckr Says:

Congratulations to Murray. This is great for the sport in general.

I just hope that John McEnroe doesn’t say that Murray is “the greatest ever” now.


Michael Says:

The difficulty in learning serve and volley is because no body tends to practice it with the fear of discomfiting your practice partner. All that you tend to do while you practice is to hit the ball from the back of the court. It is where the difficulty starts in honing your serve and volley skills. Afterall, it is the most difficult shot to be perfected in Tennis and require tremendous skills and artistry. People have varied reasons as to why the serve and volley Tennis is today dead as dodo. Some attribute it to the slowness of courts, the high tech racquets, the tension in strings, the make up of the balls etc. Considering all these reasons as relevant, it is still a puzzle as to why the players of today just refuse to come to the net even when it is warranted. They just fear to tread near the net. They only come to the net to shake hands at the end of the match. As regards Grendel’s contention that Serve and Volley Tennis is here to stay. Well that might happen if some players boldy adopt this dying art and become a success. Nothing succeeds like success and once players realize that serve and volley is an effective and surprise weapon, it will get entrenched in the psyche of players and will tend to get popular in today’s competitive Tennis. Now that is not becoming possible because players are cynical about its utility to win points. Yet you need a booming serve to follow it up with serve and volley. Not many can have the comfort of having a big serve because it doesn’t come by mere practice and is operative mainly by instinct.


grendel Says:

“I think I would really be convinced that SnV will do this magic, if a person actually puts up the results and then talks.”

Fair point. No harm in speculating, though. That isn’t serious, but it is quite enjoyable. There are some straws in the wind, even if only small. Gilles Simon, in the final at Eastbourne, was being trounced by F.Lopez. Towards the end, including the tiebreak, he came back strongly and almost took it to a 3rd – playing s&v. Imagine, Simon playing s&v! It was effective, though.

Also, when Tsonga beat Nadal at the AO, he was playing a fair bit of s&v then wasn’t he? Of course, for the reasons people say, there cannot be a reversion to old style s&v – and good thing too! All I am hoping for is that it becomes a much more accepted part of a good tennis player’s armoury, and not simply whipped out, rabbit out of the hat like, to catch the opponent unawares.


grendel Says:

” As regards Grendel’s contention that Serve and Volley Tennis is here to stay.”

Hey, wait a minute, Michael, I didn’t say that. I live in hope, not expectation. I did like the rest of your post, though.


James Says:

If tennis was played on grass at least 30% of the time in a year, you’d see more SnV players. But grass as of now is just Wimbledon, and a couple of warm-up tournaments. So why would players spend countless hours practising their SnV game when most of the time they are to play on the hardcourts and clay? It’s good to have some volleying skills but if you aren’t good from the baseline, you ain’t gonna be highly successful today.


Jazzcomedian Says:

Watched the Murray/Djokovic match yesterday, and while I’m really happy that Murray won to get the British fans, and media monkey off his back, I don’t find their matches entertaining (including their recent US and Australian Open Finals) due to their similarity in style. It’s just a war of attrition, as they play another version of themself. I found both their Wimbledon semi-final matches far more entertaining, and compelling, because Djokovic and Murray had to use all their amazing defensive capabilities, and counterpunching skills to diffuse the great power of both Del Potro and Janowicz. The Djokovic/Haas match also was more enjoyable as Djokovic defeated the elegant stylist. In fact, I often changed channels periodically, and then came back to the Murray/Djokovic match. Often to find them playing the very same point.

Contrast in style is what makes for entertaining tennis for me. I own on DVD, a large collection of matches from the ’60s to now, and as great as Edberg, Rafter, and Sampras were as serve and volleyers, I find their matches against each other somewhat boring, when I try to watch them. The same with the Becker/Stich, and Becker/Edberg Wimbledon matches I own. The 1989 McEnroe/Edberg Wimbledon semi-final is an exception due to the creativity of their volleying. But Sampras, or Rafter against Agassi is a totally different story due to the contrast in style. Very entertaining. The Agassi/Rafter Wimbledon semi-final matches of 2000, and 2001 are scintillating viewing, while the historic Sampras/Rafter final of 2000, where Sampras won his 13th slam title is not.

So if Murray/Djokovic, Murray/Nadal, and/or Nadal/Murray turn out as they appear to be the predominant tennis rivalries of the future, I probably won’t be watching many of them, and catch the highlights on Tennis Channel. I can only hope that Del Potro, Tsonga, Janowicz, Dimitrov, Tomic, Dolgolpolov, or somone else with a different style gets into the grand slam mix to provide some contrast against them.

The good thing about Murray now becoming another legitimate grand slam contender for titles, is that he and Djokovic will probably win enough of them to stop Nadal from breaking Federer’s grand slam title record.

BTW, though Murray’s victory is certainly the more historic story of Wimbledon, I found Bartoli’s completely unexpected victory more emotionally moving. There’s no way I ever thought that would ever be possible given all her quirks, and athletic deficiencies. Talk about an underdog rising to the occasion.


sienna Says:

2001 was the last year snv could dominate grascourt.
Fed beat sampras the king playing snv .
Wimbledon slowed down the next year because the ground for new gras of 2001 was hardened.

Fedhaters often make the mistake of pointing at 2001 as the year conditions slowed down . It is not look at semie finalists of that year. Roger beat sampras at his best tournement when he wasnt even finished winning slam.


Fedkovic23 Says:

“The good thing about Murray now becoming another legitimate grand slam contender for titles, is that he and Djokovic will probably win enough of them to stop Nadal from breaking Federer’s grand slam title record.”

I agree with most of your post but I just wanted to say, thus far, Djokovic has helped Federer’s cause the most – hence the support for Nole from federer fans. Murray would most probably have layed another egg against nadal if nadal was not knocked out by darcis.

With Rafa struggling to play slams and having trouble advancing past the early rounds in the off-chance he plays them, I doubt federer needs murray’s help.

I would count on Janowicz or Dimitrov or Tomic more than Murray. dude is already 26 and has never consistently dominated.

@James:

Serve and Volley can be used at USopen, Cincinnati and indoor tournaments. So your reason doesn’t sound like a factor. Post Wimbledon, all courts except Canada, are fast surfaces with pace comparable and sometimes more than Wimbledon Grass courts.


Fedster Says:

Good discussions…


Michael Says:

Grendel,

Prior to 2000, I remember people were getting bored with mere Serve and Volley Tennis. All they needed then was back court Tennis with players hitting 20-30 shots at a stretch. Today, times have changed. Ironically, people are getting bored with mere back court Tennis and they aspire for variety and visualize the Classical Tennis of Serve and Volley to break the monotony. Thus, things have turned full circle with the passage of a generation. So what it goes to prove is that too much of anything is a poison. All that Tennis needs today is a bit of variety which would make the game even more interesting. It would be the case if players use the serve and volley tactic as a surprise weapon whenever they are necessitated.


Fedster Says:

My take on the death on S & V is mainly attributed to the advancements in the raquet and string (spring) technology:

1. The returner can see where the Volleyer is and tap it in the gap with little fuss. The accuracy of the baseline shots these days are faaaaaar better compared to even 15 yrs back. The baseliners these days need not impart huge power. Just giving the direction is enough. People are using more of wrists and less of shoulder compared to the yester years.

2. The returner can impart spin and make the dip at the feet of the incoming volleyer.

3. If the ball was hit back with huge power the volleyer will not be able to control the volley because of his own sling type strings. The wrists and hands should be absolutely soft…else the ball would just fly out of the court. Those days with the wooden raquet with conventional strings rarely people hit the ball out of the court while volleying.

In short what we are witnessing is not same game which guys laver played…..its entirely different.


Nirmal Kumar Says:

It’s pretty much understood that players of today cannot play S & V game. But i would be really surprised if we conclude that they cannot play all court game.

They could still finish the points coming to the net at appropriate moments.

I believe the best tennis played by Roger was when he was coached by roche. Roger improved his net game under his coaching and some of his breathtaking tennis in 2006 and at 2007 AO was possible due to his ability to come to the net and finish the points.

Even in last year Wimbledon, most of the key points by Roger were actually won by him by coming to the net. Best example was the point be broke Novak in the 3rd set on set point. He broke Murray to take the second set by playing one of the best spinning drop volley. His number of attempts to the net on the finals were amazing. He was able to do it successfully.

So there is enough room for players to come to the net and close the points at the appropriate time. I believe this is what the next generation would learn to do, as they believe the attrition tennis these guys are playing today would break their body.


Fedster Says:

Nadal is also kind of a factor in top players doing away with S & V.
Nadal has by far the best EVER game against S & V. Because of this the top players were not so keen in working on improving their S & V skills.


Kimberly Says:

the next question for Murray is will and can he get to number one. He is holding two slams and still trails. However, if he has a strong showing in the two masters, defends USO and Djokovic falters a little I think he will take it. As Nadal leads the points race, he’s still in the conversation but he would have to put in a great summer hardcourt season and at least a respectable fall season.


SG1 Says:

I think player’s reticence regarding S&V comes down to the surfaces that are played on today. In the 60′s and part of the 70′s, when 3 of the 4 majors were played on grass, most players used S&V and employed the one handed backhand. The grass rewarded aggressive play.

As tennis moved away from grass, the number of players using S&V has steadily declined. It’s hard to convince someone to commit themselves to an S&V style when there are only 3 or 4 tournaments on the whole calendar are played on grass.

Since the power game really kicked in (mid ’80′s or so), there have been very few successful pure S&V players that take that style to all surfaces. Only Edberg was able to do it. Becker and Sampras were all courters more than pure S&V guys (at least in my opinion). Mac, with all his considerable talent, couldn’t win another major after ’84.

There has to be a pay off when a player makes style choices. With so many tournaments played off of grass, there just isn’t a reason to commit to S&V. Better to be a versatile all courter with a chance to win every week. S&V is really high risk. Even if you’re phenomenally gifted there is no guarantee you’ll translate the S&V style into good results.


TennisZod Says:

I hate the fact that Murray is also the reigning Olympic champion. He’s turning into a real threat to my boy’s path to goathood. I hope next time they meet, my boy Djoker hands him a double bagel.


SG1 Says:

I’d like to see more S&V but I don’t think that players are comfortable with it. Even the technology is counter productive. I think that if you really want to play S&V, you can’t do it with Luxilon. You need a real feel for the ball. All the technology has evolved to promote blasting the ball with a ton of spin from the baseline. There’d have to be a concerted effort to design a racket and string technology specifically for the S&V player.


SG1 Says:

Djokovic is a truly great player but I don’t think he was ever on the path to goathood. He showed up at the wrong time. Too many great players all playing at the same time and dividing up the big trophies. He’d need at least 15 majors to be in the discussion and I don’t think he’ll get anywhere close to this. Perhaps 10 or 11 majors, tops.


the DA Says:

Here’s a lovely pic of the new Wimbledon champs together at last night’s ball:

http://siusopen.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/173116618a.jpg?w=610&h=755


TennisZod Says:

Murry would have lost the final if No1e wasn’t too tired from his 5 hour match with Delpo. Fatigue cost him his second Wimbledon crown. When No1e brings his A game, no Rafa, no Roger and certainly no Murray can beat him.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/tennis/23221398


Brando Says:

@the DA:

Great Photo to see. Thanks.

Nice to see to see first time Wimby winners who were prior finalists: much deserved win for both.


Long Live The King Says:

I agree with you SG, Djokovic will win around 11 slams. If Murray can build on this, he might get to 8 slams himself and restrict Novak to below 10.

Realistically, I think Novak will have 11 slams, Murray 5 slams. It will be exciting to watch how things unfold. I hope Fedal will still remain relevant to give the tennis scene a “Legendary” feel.

As much as Novak/Andy are great, Fedal have set the bar very high for achievements and being an ambassador for our sport.

Long Live The King of Tennis and The King of Clay!


Brando Says:

John McEnroe thinks Andy can win 6 or more slams.

And I personally feel the same regarding Muzza.

I hope he can get 7 slams so that he has multi-slam status, all time great status and a genuine case for top 10 in the game ever.

He has everything in place to turn Wimby into his fortress. And I can see him winning another 2 there, maybe even more.

Either way: he’s already an all time legend here in Britain! :-)


James Says:

Brando,

Murray may not win 10 Slams but I hope he wins at least 1 AO and 1 F0 and join Rafa and Agassi in the ‘Career Golden Slam’ club.


WTF Says:

Murray is a long distance behind Djoker in the rankings despite holding 2 slams to Djoker’s 1. This is because Djoker has 2 runner ups and 1 SF plus titles outside of the slams. Murray will have a lot of points to defend coming up, and can’t gain much.

If he can’t reach #1 with 2 slams, he can’t, period. If he doesn’t defend his US Open title, he drops.

Nadal is doing surprisingly well despite having no points from Wimbledon or AO.

Federer I think, well, not much to say about him after that shock loss. I’m not surprised he got upset, but I am surprised he lost to someone I’ve never heard of. Same with Nadal.


WTF Says:

James, Murray is not going to win a French Open. His game isn’t good enough on the clay.

Does he have any clay titles at all? Has he reached any finals? We need to take baby steps first.


mike Says:

So happy for Murray and us Brits

greatest moment in tennis for a long time (since Federer won 2009 French Open)

see how better tennis is when Nadal/Djokovic are getting extinguished.


Elena Says:

WTF (July 8th, 2013 at 2:25 pm)

Good post. Nole is in best position to end the year no.1 – 3 rd year in a row.

Brando:

Gulbis is a legend in Latvia and Jerzy in Poland. This is Murray’s moment, but he still is the 4th wheel in this generation. 2 slams in Great Britain are still 2 slams in Serbia or Spain. I hope Andy has greater understanding of his accomplishment than the British who think they have found the cure to cancer or found another planet that supports human life.


Elena Says:

Andy has no titles on clay – I don’t know if he has beaten a top 5 player on clay.

I think he made 1 final or 2.


Fedkovic23 Says:

“Nadal is doing surprisingly well despite having no points from Wimbledon or AO.”

Huh? He is doing good if he was Ferrer. For a 12 time slam champion to spend almost an year out of the top 3 at his prime inspite of winning 2 slams shows a career that is winding down – where the focus is not on week-in week-out domination but focus on slams – which most Champions do after they hit 30.

In some ways, it is increasingly looking likely that Rafa will call his career off prematurely like the last great FO champion before him Kuerten.

I think Novak has a great chance of getting to 12 or maybe even more slams. He is on a 12 -slam semi-final streak. He is a factor on all surfaces and does not have a weakness like Nadal or Murray.

Who will stop him? If Murray is going to be his nearest rival, I feel very good for Nole’s chances.

Right now, the sport is going back to the 90s with surface specialists. Nadal on clay, Murray/Federer on grass and Djokovic/Murray on hardcourts, Federer/Djokovic on indoors.


skeezer Says:

I think all this talk about will Murray do this or that is all good. But I am sure the true Murray fans and Brits care only about this right now;

“Murray Beats Djokovic To Win Wimbledon, Ending 77-Year British Drought”

At the moment, that is all that really matters. He’s made history, regardless if he ever wins a title again.


Brando Says:

@Elena:

‘than the British who think they have found the cure to cancer or found another planet that supports human life.’:

LMFAO, Elena, love, how the hell did you come to such an understanding?

Let’s not exaggerate my calling Andy a all time legend in Britain since news flash hon: he is.

And besides: When Nole won his 3rd career slam, Wimby title in 2011 didn’t a reported million or so Serbs gather together when he came back to Serbia as if it was the 2nd coming or something?

Did they exaggerate his win then?

I don’t know and TBH: I don’t give a monkeys if they did or not.

Point is:

I know it’s a bummer when on’e fav loses. Heck: it was colossal bummer seeing Rafa out for 7 months.

But just because you are in a sour mood over it, one should not piss on the parade of the winner and knock those celebrating their fav’s win as guess what: had your fav won you would be here doing the same.

So:

Sh!t happens.

Deal with it.

I said Andy is a legend in Britain for this win. And guess what: he is.

Save the exaggerations for your fav rather than talking hyperbolic nonsense when their isn’t any reason for it!


Brando Says:

@Skeezer:

Awesome post.

A excellent and timely one.

You recognize that for him and Britain this win is a huge deal.

Whatever he does from here is a bonus as he has nailed the holy grail for him and British folks: winning Wimby!

Hence my:

‘Either way: he’s already an all time legend here in Britain! :-)’

Kudos to non-Murray fans such as you who are able to recognize what he has done for himself and his nation: it seems that some cannot fathom it, sadly.

He’s a legend here for this win. Anything else is a just a bonus.

Period.

Great to see that others can pick up on such a point!


Daniel Says:

SG1, agree completely with your take on strings.

People go on and on on this site about the volleyrs of the past, but those guys wouldn’t be able to volley because by the time they reach the net, the ball would be flyiing by them. The passing shots Murray and Nadal can produce on the running outside the court are insane and were never done in the old days, not even close.

I remember that Pete Sampras trade mark (apart from his serve) was his forehand on the running. A shot that nowadys every John Doe has and it his days looks unique and usually was a winner, today they play 8 more strokes after that shot, all top 10, routine shot.

The volleyrs of yesterday wouldn’t stand a chance today wiht the racquet technology and strings.
The bench marck is Federer, to me a great volleyr. Somebody with his talend he was able to do the best he could consideirng the scneario he was playing with, just watch that 2011 Wimbledon match versus Pete. If he couldn’t serve and volley, no one will, not consistanlty enoug to be a top 5 player. The problem is, he got rusty as he didn’t aplly that game anymore to survive and we get the sense that he is not a great volleyer.
Last trully great volley display I watch was Tsonga versus Nadal in AO 2008, but you just can’t play that level in today’s conditon all the time.


Fedkovic23 Says:

“At the moment, that is all that really matters. He’s made history, regardless if he ever wins a title again.”

Who is denying that? Most of the murray fans dont even know about tennis other than SW19 and Tim Henman and Andy Murray.

The problem is with pseudo-murray fans – rafa fans who have jumped the ship to Rafa, because let us face it, rafa is not achieving anything more. Not with Delpotro, Murray and Janowicz and Dimitrov and Tomic and Raonic and Paire starting to step up.

Elena is Right. In Argentina, they loathe any one English or British – because of the British-Argentian wars and football rivalry. Except the British, the rest of the world sees Murray as a 2 time slam champ. Nothing more Nothing less.

If you go by British press, they will claim EPL is the best football on earth. That is far from truth. La Liga and Serie A are much better. To them Henman was the dominant force at Wimbledon. They even named a place after him and not Sampras, who is the biggest Wimbledon Champ in 2009.

I say, players should boycott Wimbledon so that Murray and his brother can play the finals every year and the British press can claim them to be the best siblings who played tennis ahead of the Williams sisters.

How small is your mind that you don’t think there is a world outside Britain. Even allowing for the British fans, it is extremely short-sighted to say Murray is greater than Djokovic or Nadal or Federer.

Here is the pecking order for anyone who has lost their marbles like Murray does in the big tournaments:

1Federer

2Nadal

3Djokovic

4 Hewitt

5 Safin

6 Murray.

This is just the last decade. Murray is a small speck in the ocean of tennis. There are colossus/giants who have played this wonderful game. To deny that does not reflect well on your ability to understand how tennis works or how the world works.

Murray is a legend in Britain, but even there he will see Federer and Nadal higher up the ladder on him. I am sure Nadal fans are just trying to get over what happened in the last 2 Wimbledon matches that Rafa played. If that is where they are coming from, they can tell us so and we will let them make statements like “Murray WILL win 30 slams” and let them dance around in their ignorance, much like we let insane people walk around in the public making a mockery of themselves.


andrea Says:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/gallery/2013/jul/08/wimbledon-2013-winners-ball-in-pictures#/?picture=412363553&index=11

the loser at the bbc who trashed marion for her looks, should take a look at this photo.


the DA Says:

lol. How many monikers does one person need? Couple of points:

1. some Murray fans here aren’t British
2. some fans have been following tennis long before Murray (or you) were born


grendel Says:

Daniel

Granted about racket technology. All the same, Tsonga did apply s&v, successfully, against Nadal. Stakhovsky did beat Federer using s&v. And he did go on to give the very skilful Melzer quite a beating for a set and a half.

You say:”you just can’t play that level in today’s conditon all the time.” Sure. There will be no reversion to the Tim Mayottes, the Paul Annacones, the Roscoe Tanners (thank god for that!).

But who is to say that s&v won’t make a measured comeback of some kind? A game can evolve, can’t it? And nobody quite knows in advance how that might happen.

Even racket technology – perhaps new developments will accommodate a degree of s&v. Don’t ask me how – I know squat all about these things. But is it beyond of the realm of possibility?

There is an innate tendency to think that everything will stay just as it is now. Somehow, right now, tennis has reached its apogee.

History suggests this is implausible. Plenty of surprises await us.


Elena Says:

Good Post Daniel. It is good seeing the discussions on why Serve and Volley is not possible. I agree with what you write. Federer used to volley very good and now he makes so many errors – all basic mistakes that I would be embarrased to make on a tennis court. He still makes some amazing volleys and sometimes when the pressure is on.

We need to get lebron james to play tennis and I think he will be able to volley and win 1 or 2 Wimbledons.

Fedkovic:

Thank you for explaining things. Some poster mentioned Federer and Djokovic fans are similar and Murray and Nadal fans are similar.

Brando: Novak already won a Wimbledon, in any case he is not my favorite, but I still think Federer, Nadal and Djokovic are bigger legends than Murray – if it is ok with you and your fellow Murray fans.


Elena Says:

Andrea, Bartoli is such a happy person. She sure deserves a better date than Murray. I say Delpotro or Janowicz or even Haas.

The British had to bring disrepute on themselves in their biggest moment in 77 years. They seem to live in the stone age.

When has Wimbledon been awarded to the “looker”. I am glad they actually play and win. The British should be too. Murray or another British player will not be winning Wimbledon if it is about good looks.

Are teeth evaluated in the good looks?


Brando Says:

@Elena:

‘if it is ok with you and your fellow Murray fans.’:

LOL, come on now: let’s get real.

As if you need my permission to hold any beliefs.

Look: it’s cool.

I only responded to your post due to the hyperbolic reaction you gave to my calling Andy a British legend.

It’s fine and done with.

Moving on.


grendel Says:

@Fedkovic

“If you go by British press, they will claim EPL is the best football on earth. That is far from truth. La Liga and Serie A are much better. To them Henman was the dominant force at Wimbledon. They even named a place after him and not Sampras, who is the biggest Wimbledon Champ in 2009.”

Well, some British press. I imagine (but don’t know) that every country has its version of the British tabloid press, in which a fairly mindless chauvinism is encouraged. That’s just the way of the world, I am afraid. But I don’t think anyone seriously claimed Henman was a dominant force. On the contrary, he rather tapped into the British psyche with all his “heroic” losses and “near misses”. The British do love a chap who gets knocked to the canvas and gets up and asks for more. Something to do with the Dunkirk spirit.

As for “Henman Hill”, well, I think that’s only natural – it is, after all, England. It would seem strange to name this piece of turf after Sampras, say, or Laver, or Federer. They were indeed great champions, and you wouldn’t really want to name a patch of non-descript hill after any of them. In a way, naming it Henman Hill is a kind of self-deprecating thing. Henman never won anything and it’s just a bit of non-playing scrubland – the two kind of suit each other, like an old couple cuddled together on a comfy sofa.

Note that the actual courts are soberly named as Centre Court and Number 1 and so on. Note also that in the three other countries that host grand slams, the courts are named after local heroes.


Fedkovic23 Says:

Yes, plenty of surprises await us like they have awaited us for the last 10 years.

Federer won 17 of the last 41 slams. Nadal won 12. Novak 6. Murray 2. Delpotro, Roddick, Safin, Gaudio won 1.

Repeat same for 1000s

No.1 – Only Federer, Nadal, Djokovic and Roddick have been ranked no.1 in the last 10 years. No other player even had a sniff. Not even that British Legends SIR MEGALOMANIACS Tim Henman and SIR 2SLAMS Andrew Murray


Elena Says:

Grendel:

Maybe they should call Center Court – Federer-Borg arena, they are the most revered of Wimbledon Legends who come from non-Grand Slam nations.


Elena Says:

Fedkovic23, that does sound very predictable. We need young blood. Janowicz, Dimitrov – come on, get your game together.


Polo Says:

Brando @ 3:38 pm

Thank you for reponding to Elena’s sour grape, insensitive and narrow-minded post about Murray at 3:03 pm. That is indeed what sour grapes do, rain on someboby else’s parade because her own parade did not materialize.


puckbandit Says:

I haven’t posted here much, but had to come in to say Cheers! to Murray’s win.

Winning that last game alone is worthy of a little trophy in itself.


Bada Bing Says:

July 8th, 2013 at 2:25 pm

Thanks so much WTF for reminding me of the points and rankings.


Wog boy Says:

grendel @5:04pm

Just one correction, those “local heroes” were actually world best players, not just the local heroes. Australia had a problem (for difference from UK) who to chose without insulting the other greats in naming tennis courts. I don’t think any other countries but USA can come even close when it comes to GS titles and champions, that includes female tennis players, best ever Margaret Court (if we stick with numbers and records) and first black woman to win Wimbledon, Evonne Goolagong, BTW great life storry worth making good movie.

Before people come to me about Margaret Court and numbers of AO titles that she has, it wasn’t her problem that some American and Europeans didn’t bother coming Down Under to play then, it was legitimate GS and it counts as such. She has other records against her name that no other male/female player has, such as seven year #1 in ten years period and yes, also giving births while winning GS titles.


grisham Says:

Djokovic will win AO again, he’s on a tear there. Nadal will win the French Open, Murray will win Wimbledon, and Djokovic will win US Open

Jamie
In January you said the above. Why are you always changing your predicitons? Is it planetary?


jamie Says:

@grisham

I found out something that I didn’t know in January….

Murray will win the USO this year.


volley Says:

@ wog boy

one correction. althea gibson was the first black woman to win wimbledon, in 1957. evonne goolagong was only 6 years old that year.


Margot Says:

Skeeze @3.38
Excellent post. Right on!
@Brando
I for one have thoroughly enjoyed wallowing in Murray mania!
Did u c the revised documentary? How brilliant to see that again in this context. Andy’s “journey” has been amazing.
Johnny Mac and Ivan talked about the pressure that Andy has been under but I’m not sure that many people outside the UK can really understand the extent.
Fed/Rafa/Nole got very lucky not having the Wimbledon slam, arguably the one the players/media/public rate the highest, in their home countries.


James Says:

wow! Why are some posters acting like such losers? Andy Murray isn’t gonna be a Nadal or a Federer. I don’t see any Murray fan claiming that. FYI I’m not a Murray fan. But, this is Andy Murray’s moment. Not Nadal’s, not Federer’s and not even Djokovic’s. One of the things I admire a lot about Nadal and Djokovic is that after a defeat, they swallow their pride, accept defeat and give credit where it’s due, no matter how painful the defeat. That’s something the fans can learn from these great players.
Andy himself on Twitter, when asked if he thinks he can win 10 slams, said “no, I don’t think so.”I don’t think either. But then who are we to say Murray will not win 6-7 slams? Or a career golden slam? It’s a possibility and Murray has proven himself. I say he can. Will he? No one knows. But at the moment, what’s important is that he’s won his 2nd slam, Wimbledon, a great achievement in the British sporting history. It’s Murray’s moment. Well done, Murray!


Wog boy Says:

volley,

Thanks, I didn’t know that one. Bad on me for not chevking facts before posting. Next time I here Aussies claming Evonne was first black woman to win Wimbledon I will correct them.


Wog boy Says:

“checking”


the DA Says:

@ James – It’s the way things are now unfortunately (it never used to be when I started following tennis). The tribal mentality which exists in team sports such as football, basketball and hockey has infiltrated tennis. For every achievement a player makes there’ll be fans of other players whose sole intention is to crap on the moment in any way possible. Best to scroll past and not give any weight to their remarks.


Margot Says:

@ the DA
NOBODY can rain on my parade.:)
@James
Well said :)


TennisZod Says:

O Danny Morris, where art thou? Lady forehand fans are having fun. Maybe claydal fans too because No1e lost. Please do something about this with your stats and predictions.


the DA Says:

@ Margot – You tell ‘em girl. BTW did you see this lovely pic of Andy with his dad and Judy?

http://24.media.tumblr.com/b74d414c205c48dd3c12c43be1775210/
tumblr_mpnhrrdapQ1qb2wsio1_500.jpg

Being someone who had divorced parents, it gave me a lump in my throat.


the DA Says:

@ Margot – Also I can’t forget this cartoon in today’s Times. It truly made me LOL. It’s so true.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BOtk4xSCUAAZ6sI.jpg


Tennis x hippy chic Says:

James a great post,i agree as you say a career golden slam could be on the cards at some point,hes won the USO,Wimbledon,i can actually see him winning the AO too at some point, as he has been in a few finals there ,the big question mark would be the FO,as hes not done so well there,Rafa,Novak and Roger are all better CC players IMO,Ferrer actually beat Andy at the FO,i would hope all that will change in the future,and anyway nobody thought Rafa would ever win the USO but he did,so its not out of the realms of possibility i suppose,never has does not necassarily mean never will,i would also like to see Novak winning the FO at some point,i think it would be fantatic to see all the top 4 players with a career GS,making history too,however thats not to say that they havent already done that anyway.


Margot Says:

@the DA
I burst out laughing at that! And had similar thoughts when I saw them in the royal box …;)
Brilliant article by Mark Steele in yesterday’s Indy, “We’ve suffered with him-now let’s toast a humble champion.” Dunno if you can access, very funny line in it, I can’t possibly repeat here…
Yes, photo with both parents was very moving. I think the divorce cut both boys up.


MM Says:

SG1 Says:
Djokovic is a truly great player but I don’t think he was ever on the path to goathood. He showed up at the wrong time. Too many great players all playing at the same time and dividing up the big trophies. He’d need at least 15 majors to be in the discussion
_________________________________________________

Bjorn Borg is a GOAT candidat and he won 11 slams. So, no, Djokovic does not need at least 15 majors to be in the discussion.


Fedkovic23 Says:

Here are some gems from murray fans – includes rafa rats that have deserted the sinking ship.

“Fed/Rafa/Nole got very lucky not having the Wimbledon slam, arguably the one the players/media/public rate the highest, in their home countries.”

Yes. Fed/Rafa/Nole were lucky. Thank you for your very astute insight.

and some genius proclaiming career golden slam for Murray? This is just hilarious. The guy has not won any title of importance. Yet, we are to believe that he will win a FO. This is not surprising since it is a deluded rafa fan who would have told us Rafa would be 2013 Wimbledon Champion.

How can anyone who knows compare Rafa’s USO 2010 to claim Murray has a shot at FO? Rafa has won masters titles on hardcourts and nowhere near as bad as murray as clay. I don’t know if Murray ranks even in the top 10 clay court players currently playing.

The insanity that is being presented as facts on this forum is very shocking. I wish moderators could moderate posts for stupidity, but I guess that would be insulting and politically not correct.

Murray will have a chance at career golden slam if LTA could somehow sneak him into the WTA draw in french open. I am sure they would have, if he did not win it this year. I am not sure he might have been able to beat Serena/Sharapova/Li Na at their best, though.

One more thing. The greatest achievement by someone outside top 3 is Nicolas massu’ super-human effort in the land of Olympics – Greece. Please read about it and realise Murray’s legend fades in comparison. In the same tournament, Fernando Gonzalez won a bronze in singles along with the doubles gold. How is Murray’s achievement more legendary? Or Gaudio who won a FO from 2 sets to 0 down in his only slam final. He did not need 7 attempts like Murray nor did Argentina have to shell-out 100s of millions of dollars for either of these LEGENDARY players to achieve bigger results than Murray.

What the British/LTA did is take a billion$ and buy themselves a bicycle. They are now trying to sell it to the world as if it is some miracle. Unfortunately the rest of the world has seen some great champions who achieved far more than Sir 2slams.

Margot/Deuce : You run down the other site into the ground with your wonderful tennis insights about Murray’s tennis. Please do not do the same.

Skeezer: I hope you and contador will celebrate this. The rafa-rats site is shutting down for good. LOL!


TennisZod Says:

And my friend Danny boy is BACK!! As Fedkovic23 this time. Great post btw. Take that, Murray/Rafa fans or rats!


grendel Says:

@Wog boy 9.22

That’s an excellent point. It makes sense to have an Arthur Ashe court or a Suzanne Lenglen court etc – it would be kind of embarrassing to have a Tim Henman court. I doubt if modesty, however, was the sole criterion in the minds of whoever arranges these things. Not having a famous name attached to a court gives it a kind of formalism in keeping with the idea of Wimbledon being the home of tennis and therefore above mere tribal considerations. “Centre Court” – I think it’s rather wonderful, it leaves everything to the imagination.

Of course, the perfidious English – as the French called them – have, in the want of a genuine champion to celebrate, slyly slipped in their own brand of boasting: namely, the tournament of Wimbledon itself. As an Englishman, I confess to a sort of baffling pride in the mere fact of Wimbledon, although when I hear people like Andrew Castle going on about it, I just want to crawl under the nearest table and slowly shrink to about the size of a pea.

Meanwhile, now that Britain does have a worthy tennis champion, if not (yet) anywhere near the stature of Federer,Nadal and Djokovic, one wonders how this will alter perceptions – in the eyes, at any rate, of reasonable people.

@TennisZod 6.16

Yes, there is no doubt that Fedkovic is Danny Morris. I actually suspected this before his most recent effusion – but that was conclusive.


gonzalowski Says:

Congratulations to Andy, his fans and Brit supporters!
Djokovic was a gentleman in the defeat, as the champion he is.

About FO/Murray, he has not won anything on clay, but I remember him giving a hard test to Nadal at Montecarlo (semis?).


the DA Says:

“is Nicolas massu’ super-human effort in the land of Olympics”

haha..so superhuman he only met one player from the top 10, and beat the #24 seed in the SFs and the #35 seed in the final. Legendary!

“I wish moderators could moderate posts for stupidity”

A wish for self-immolation?


Wog boy Says:

grendel,

It is joy to read your posts, as usual:)
Since I lost a track who is who on Tennis-(se)X, I think it is time for me to have a break too, like some other genuine Nole fans. Before I go I thought you, and others, might be interesting to find out more about redevelopment of Melbourne park (AO) and first stage where already couple of hundreds of millions of dollars were invested. Great place, great venue, great sport fans in Melbourne. HAPPY GS.
I guess you can spare few minutes and check this video, you will not regret,, stay safe, cheers.

http://youtu.be/fjC18jVUghU


grendel Says:

Wog boy

Yes, nice video. I’m really pleased they are taking into account the aesthetic side of things. Australians are much better at that than they are generally given credit for. Or perhaps I am out of date here. Incidentally, I always hear that the AO tends to be the most popular of the grand slams from the players’ point of view simply because of the relaxed and friendly atmosphere.

Have a good break, and don’t forget to come back and bring jane along with you.


Margot Says:

Just lol, lol lol. Another non de plume I’l have to happily skip past.
BTW no-one’s raining on my parade :)
What was it again: Nole will bagel Andy? Andy has zero chance of winning? Such extraordinary tennis insight, no?


Margot Says:

@ grendel 7.59
Hear re Wog Boy and Jane :)


Margot Says:

Aaah, Hear, hear of course! Drat!


Long Live The King Says:

Why are people obsessed with who is the poster and not the post itself? I am curious. It is only the moderators who will know who is really who.

Why don’t people object to specific things a poster has said and leave the identity investigation to the moderators?

A few months back Margot/Jane/Wogboy and other Djokovic fans accused a poster of being Von because the poster had called Djokovic a counterpuncher. Later we learnt that poster was NOT Von. The poster has been successfully seen off by the Djokovic fans. Now I see rafa/murray fans doing a similar thing to Fedkovic23. Do we have confirmation from moderators that Danny Morris is Fedkovic23?

How has an elite tennis discussion about strings/volleys or slowing down of conditions succumbed to such menial stuff? Does it really matter whether X or Y says or makes a statement? If you disagree with the statement refute it, without personal attacks. If you have a hunch they are violating forum/internet rules, mail the moderators and let them handle the issue. The moderators can make the handling of the issue transparent so that no one will cry foul play.

Above all, just ignore if you cannot do either of the above. That is the golden rule on internet discussion.

I am sorry if anyone is offended, but I really liked the discussion on the strings and the future of Serve and Volley.

Fedkovic23 made some good points on that topic and even his other posts have very good points. Now go ahead and brand me as Fedkovic 23 as well. Or I am some other poster who you do not want posting here.

Grendel and Tennis Zod:

Could you please present us proof that Danny Morris and Fedkovic23 are the same. I do not know about Fedkovic23, but I know Danny Morris – not his real name, personally as a friend and I really do not like him being dragged into your personal agendas for things he has not done.

Grendel, were you not personally embarrased when you did a similar thing with Von and she came here and called you out? Why do you want egg on your face again? What use is your age if it does not give you wisdom? You behave worse than teenagers I see on some of the other interenet forums.

I will vouch for Danny Morris. If you guys can prove to us Danny Morris is Fedkovic23, I will stop posting here. If you cannot, can Grendel and his friends who are so confident about this promise the same? I assure you I do not use multiple IDs or monikers. Even my blog will be called “Long Live The King” – A tribute to the greatest tennis player I have ever seen, Roger Federer.

So, who is willing to put their money where their mouths or keyboards are? I would like to settle such petty issues for once and all, so other posters who are making very insightful posts do not get discouraged from posting here.

As was mentioned – very good posters like MMT, Voicemale, and a lot of posters have been driven off and it is sad to see a blog like tennis-X which I enjoy reading encourage such petty discussions over relevant discussions.

We need better moderation and posters with better judgement who can put aside personal attacks and discuss tennis matters.

I hope Daniel and SG will continue their wonderful posts as I like to read them talk about tennis.


skeezer Says:

TT?

Well, thats weird, but not surprising. Always thought it looked like a betting site.
Cheryl and Ricky are good writers of the sport…..can Tennis X pick them up?


WTF Says:

Fedkovic:

“Huh? He is doing good if he was Ferrer. For a 12 time slam champion to spend almost an year out of the top 3 at his prime inspite of winning 2 slams shows a career that is winding down – where the focus is not on week-in week-out domination but focus on slams – which most Champions do after they hit 30.”

Err… He’s doing great in the race despite having no points at AO or Wimb. If we’re talking about entry rankings, he has no points at USO either. So in other words, what little tennis he’s played, he’s dominated so much that when the entire season is evaluated including the parts he’s missed, he’s still among the top.

Everything you argued is the exact opposite to reality. If he was focusing only on the slams, he wouldn’t have won 5 non-slam titles the last few months, and he wouldn’t have 0 points to defend in 3 of the 4 slams. If anything his focus is on everything but the slams.

“In some ways, it is increasingly looking likely that Rafa will call his career off prematurely like the last great FO champion before him Kuerten.”

That’s a possibility. It remains to be seen. But if he calls his career prematurely, I don’t know of any player that did that and still managed to bag 12 slams in a shortened career. Borg had 11 I think. Kuerten only had 3, and they were all FOs.

“I think Novak has a great chance of getting to 12 or maybe even more slams. He is on a 12 -slam semi-final streak. He is a factor on all surfaces and does not have a weakness like Nadal or Murray.”

This “weak” player Nadal has won all four majors by the way. If a player with weaknesses like that can do it, it must be easy.

“Right now, the sport is going back to the 90s with surface specialists. Nadal on clay, Murray/Federer on grass and Djokovic/Murray on hardcourts, Federer/Djokovic on indoors.”

Everyone except you is saying that the differences between surfaces are not big in this day and age. The specialist idea is stupid. For one, Nadal and Federer have won all 4 slams, and Nole has won 3 and made the final of the 4th. Murray has won 2, and made the final of a 3rd several times, and a SF at the 4th. You aren’t a specialist if you can do that.


WTF Says:

“The problem is with pseudo-murray fans – rafa fans who have jumped the ship to Rafa, because let us face it, rafa is not achieving anything more. ”

LOL. Where were you the last 3 months?


Giles Says:

WTF. Just one correction to your post at 11.08 am. Rafa has won 6 non-slam titles.


Kimberly Says:

wow I just went and saw that, apparently tennis talk is good bye. Never posted there but read the site and the posts occasionally. I agree the writers were very good. And the posts, same as this, some good, some petty stuff. But I don’t know anyone there and I sort of have “friends” here.


Elena Says:

LLTK:

What a wonderful post. Some of the posters here should tear up the idols/posters of their favorites and stick this post on their walls and read it everyday. Some of them maybe every hour and a bunch of them even every minute.

Please give me the link to your blog. I know you will make a great writer and journalist. All the very best and please do not stop posting here because of all the drivel. I have come here from TT and I have seen how such drivel has brought that site to an end. I hope I have better luck with this site. ;)


grendel Says:

Long Live the King says:

“Grendel, were you not personally embarrased when you did a similar thing with Von and she came here and called you out?”

Long Live the King, are you not embarrassed to get a story so absolutely plum wrong? Von and I had many a scrap, and in retrospect I am not proud of this, but never once did I accuse her of being other than she was and nor did she ever call me out on that. i am it decided that Von and Mindy were the same person – a conflation I found absurd at the time. They were nothing like.

“Why don’t people object to specific things a poster has said and leave the identity investigation to the moderators?”

The post of Fedkovic23 at 5.55 – which made it clear to me that he was Danny Morris – was the usual bundle of vituperation, ad hominem attacks as substitute for argument,banalities and vicious attack on a particular poster. All this is quite standard, the style very familiar. There is nothing to reply to. I am completely willing to stand by my identification of Danny Morris with Fedkovic 23. If the moderators say I am incorrect, I will certainly withdraw from the site. You may count on it. I will be deservedly subject to mockery if I don’t.

It is I suppose possible that there is someone imitating Danny Morris, and it would have to be a deliberate imitation – a very clever one, too. The simpler and less convoluted explanation is that Danny Morris and Fedkovic23 are the same.

I will take no lessons from you, Long Live the King, on wisdom. Mind you, I certainly lay no claim to wisdom, but at least I am not quite so self-deceiving as are you. You have consistently apologised for a mean spirited bully – and tried to have it both ways, too.

And how dare you imply I am not interested in matters of tennis, how dare you, you silly man?

All the same, this might be a good place to make one confession. Several months ago, enraged by a particular poster who was another bully, I accused him of being Superman. I cannot confidently claim I was right about that. That is the only other time I have done this – loads of other posters do it all the time.

I am completely confident of my identification. And therefore, if I am shown to be wrong, I must certainly go.


SG1 Says:

MM,

Borg is no longer a true GOAT candidate. He never won a USO or an AO. His major count is behind Federer, Sampras and Nadal. Even his claim to being the best male clay courter ever is no longer valid.

Borg was a great player. One of the all time greats to be sure (somewhere in the top 10). Federer, Nadal and Sampras have pushed him down the list. Perhaps Novak will do the same. Given the exploits of Novak’s contemporaries (Nadal and Federer), it does not seem reasonable that 10 to 11 majors gets Novak into the GOAT discussion. He would be in a similar realm to Borg, Connors etc. Not bad company. I’d take it right now.


SG1 Says:

Oh yeah…Laver is right at the top of the list with Fed, Nadal and Sampras.


SG1 Says:

Now that I think about it, nobody would have to twist my arm to have Andy Roddick’s career.


Steve 27 Says:

I don’t know why but yesterday Novak looked as nervous as Andy, perhaps even more. Watching him, I got this feeling that he was trying to control his aggression as not to turn the crowd against him completely. From what I’ve seen of Novak, he doesn’t seem to perform too well when the crowd is against him.

Watch US Open 2011. Classic Djokovic!


metan Says:

@ grendel.
Don’t go please!!!!! Keep posting.

@ Long live the king.
You always defend Danny Moris whom you admitted you knew him personally.
My silly question are one why did you tell us about your relationship out of OL ???? two is why did you defend him?????? Why are they mattered for you????? Just saying. !!


MM Says:

SG1, Borg is considered a GOAT candidate by most tennis historians.


SG1 Says:

I’m not sure tennis historians (if there is such a thing) get hung up on this GOAT stuff. I like it because it’s so damn subjective and as such, makes for interesting debate.

Things have changed a lot in the past 5 or 6 years. I don’t believe that Borg can be considered a GOAT candidate any longer. Too many guys have achievements that exceed his.


the DA Says:

I agree with Grendel. Why would anyone defend an internet bully?


the DA Says:

@ Kimberly – “apparently tennis talk is good bye”

Seriously? Oh no, I shudder at the thought of a migration. Not the reasonable posters but the handful who are sheer troublemakers.

#funwhileitlasted


Steve 27 Says:

Before the tournament began, I wondered how Djokovic would react to his loss in Paris – a match he should have won.

No, grendel, Rafa should have won in 4sets. This is the truth. In fact,in the match of AO 2012 in the fifht set 4 to 2 a favor of Rafa 30 15 that infamous bh decided the match. but talk of parallel universes is best left to science fiction writers. What was not fiction and you can see it in the statistics that Rafa was higher in the match: more winners, less unforced errors, more break points made, best percenteage in the serve. Anyway, mourn over spilled milk does not work and it’s best to see what happened.


sienna Says:

There will always be a Goat.
And untill he gets cought in slamcount FEDERER is it.

Always he is referred as the best player ever, so I am not sure why people try to steal his title.


Tennis x hippy chic Says:

Fedkovic23 i was only examining Murray completing a career GS as a possibility thats all,he has done very well at the AO and i can see him winning it,obviously his results have not been that great at the FO or on the CC so theres much room for improvement,which i already stated in my post,and can i just state i am a Rafa fan,but not one thats deserting a sinking ship,and to be quite honest it gets tiring been put up on that pedestal,Murray is and always has been as i am a Brit and also part Sottish my second favorite player,hes also Janes whos 1st and foremost a Nole fan,theres also two regular posters called Kimmi and Dari who are both diehard Federer fans,both are very clever and knowledeable ladies whom both know their stuff when it comes to tennis,but both have Murray as their second favorite,both admire and respect the achievements of Rafa and Novak but are not fans of either player,so its a matter of preferance,thing are not always that cut or dried.


TennisZod Says:

Long Live The King (I hope he does),

Danny Morris and Fedkovic23 same person? Similar writing style, cheap pot shots at Nadal/Murray (which I enjoy nonetheless as No1e fan;)). Are they the same person? I don’t give a damn, man! This Danny boy always accused me of being HR, RFF, Giles, Brando! :D NOT TRUE. Those are Murray/Nadal fans.

You feeling for him, boy? Danny boy’s big virtual mouth has brought this upon himself. I suggest you go read his posts. Of course you could say the same about me and that’s fine. My boy Djoker lost the Wimbledon final. What worse can happen now? *sigh*


Tennis x hippy chic Says:

The DA/Grendel also why you want to blog on a site thats run by an internet bully?having each and every post belittled or critisised because you dare to disagree or have a difference of opinion,i have to ask myself what would be the point in that?


Giles Says:

http://alturl.com/moe5y
Josh Berry impersonations. This kid is great!


TennisZod Says:

Murray will never win the FO. Murray was lucky No1e was too exhausted from the semifinal with Delpo and couldn’t play his A game. He himself said so. When No1e plays his best game, nobody can beat him. The Djoker will win the FO next year and dethrone Nadal on clay.
#NoleSlam


Elena Says:

SG1 and MM:

Great discussion. GOAT is a very interesting concept and it is not just tennis, but every sport they discuss it. I dont know if any other sport calls it GOAT.

Re: Borg, SG1 you are mixing up GOAT with BOAT [Best of All time]

Greatness includes on-court as well as off-court achievements. Look at it as who was the most influential tennis player of all time. One example would be Althea Gibson or Arthur Ashe, whose contribution to sport cannot be mentioned only in terms of slam wins. In such a list, Borg will be comfortably ahead of any player in the open era other than Ashe, Laver, Federer, Billy Jean King.

BOAT is what people really are talking about, but they confuse it with GOAT. Borg will also be BOAT because his hardcourts/indoor/carpet record is much superior to Nadal’s indoor/hardcourts record. Nadal made 3 hardcourt finals and he won 2, but he did not beat Federer/Djokovic at their best. Borg ran into Connors/Mcenroe – 2 of the greatest USopen/hardcourt players.

Another knock against Nadal is he did not play a dominating American Champion in New York. As we have seen on sunday, even Murray with his relatively less impressive record can be intimidating with the crowd behind him. I am sure Nadal might not have had it so easy against connors/mcenroe who Borg had to face in 4 finals not just 2 like Nadal did in US open.

Federer/Borg/Djokovic are the most complete players across all surfaces. Ofcourse they have weak and strong surfaces, but their weak surfaces are no way as bad as Nadal on indoors or Sampras on clay.


TennisZod Says:

Great post, Elena at 2:00 pm
No1e and Federer are the most complete players of this generation unlike Rafa and Murray who are only good one surface like clay and grass. Nadal was very lucky to win USO when No1e was not at his best. No1e is so dominant on all surfaces, he may well be the best of all time.


MM Says:

SG1, GOAT discussion is discussion about tennis history. I respect your opinion but there is consensus that Borg should be in the GOAT conversation.


Daniel Says:

Steve 27, Also Djoko souldh have won AO 2012 in 4 sets. Each one won the match they should and were favoured to win anyhow.

But people say that that BH was the deciding moment and me and Michael mentioned a few times that that net touch Djokovic had when 4-2 40-40 in a point he vurtually had won already but Nadla eas able to send it sky high and the ball landed in a few inches from the net changed RG final. Had Djoko won that point he would be adv 1 point away from 5-2, other than facing BP. He won the next point even after that shot and lost the game later, which ony highlith ho would have close the 5-2 lead and I bet he would not lost after that.
Very similar matches, where the loser was abe to force a fifht in a match the other was superior and both had shots are winning and match was decided in 2 odd points.


skeezer Says:

re; Borg

instead of analyzing whay be didn’t do, how about what he did do that many players didn’t. A Clay court master who won Wimby 5 times. he for sure is in the top 5 all time.


Tennis x hippy chic Says:

Seems this thread has been hijacked by the tedium of GOAT talk,i thought it was supposed to have been about Murrays Wimbledon win,OK it might not seem relevant to some posters and thats fair enough,but this is Murrays moment for him and his fans to enjoy,not Rogers,Rafas or Novaks,god knows the man has eaned this surely?could we not save GOAT talk for another day?JUST SAYING(sigh).


Elena Says:

Hippy:

Andy Murray/Britain are very small compared to Tennis/World.

No one stopped murray fans from posting about him. If GOAT talk makes you murray fans insecure, you will have to ignore.

Go read LLTK’s post. It is directed at posters like you who want to talk about everything except tennis.


Elena Says:

MM :

“SG1, GOAT discussion is discussion about tennis history. I respect your opinion but there is consensus that Borg should be in the GOAT conversation.”

Skeezer:

“re; Borg

instead of analyzing whay be didn’t do, how about what he did do that many players didn’t. A Clay court master who won Wimby 5 times. he for sure is in the top 5 all time.”

LIKE! Good posts on Borg and I agree.


Tennis x hippy chic Says:

Elena GOAT talk does not make me insecure,i just thought it could have be left for another day is all,and FYI i do talk about tennis with many long term posters,most of which i have a good raport with,they seem to know me alot better than you do,ok i may stray off topic at times as we all do,but hell nobodys perfect.


Long Live The King Says:

Grendel:

The rest of your post has too many lies. I wish we could actually get Von/ther posters you have ganged up against, to say their opinion but I do not want to contribute this petty topic moving any further.

I will take you on regarding Danny Morris not being Fedkovic23 and why do I support a internet bully – because the world is much larger than the internet and I know him as a person, friend and a very successful person who has helped many people achieve their goals. He does not take discussions with everyone on the internet as the only thing in his life. As anyone can see, he has only bullied bullies. Even stevens I will say.

I am not apologetic nor condone what he does, but I know where he is coming with his rudeness to select people, but he has not been rude to Martin Luther King / Nelson Mandela/ Gandhi /Dalai Lama.

This is my last post and I hope moderators can show us the IP address or the IDs of those 2 posters and I am willing to stop posting here if my friend Danny Morris is Fedkovic23.


Tennis x hippy chic Says:

Elena also was my post to Fedkovic23 not tennis related?thats what i believe i was doing examining a possiblity silly as it may seem ;)..


skeezer Says:

This site used to be for the most part a site where there was not multiple monikers. I don’t know who is hiding under whom(never been good about that), or who felt the need to change there monker and why. Felt it strange that anybody would do that unless there was a insecurity problem with that poster.i only see for the most part using multiple monikers to “play” with posters, at times creating another screen name to agree with there own argument. Really stupid child stuff, and nothing really positive nor a contibution to the Tennis scene.

My 2 cents.

——–

i do not agree with the take on grendel. For the most part, his posts have been very mellow, fair, informative, non threatening and well written. Everyone here seems to be given a right to there opinion, no?
If I ever had dreams of becoming a journalist, He would be one of the first persons I would call to school be in writing technique.

My 2nd cents


AD Tennis Says:

Great posts on GOAT discussion. Borg is definitely a GOAT candidate.


Brando Says:

LMFAO: Oh sure Nadal beat a Novak not at his best in USO 10 final.

Novak hadn’t hit his tennis puberty by then right?

Let’s just disregard the fact that:

1- Nadal faced him in a slam final

2- Novak had beat a certain RF in the SF- MP down

What a colossal load of BS some fans are spouting as fact regarding certain players.

Novak reached his first slam final in 2007.

He finished inside the top 3 that year if I am not mistaken.

The reason why he didn’t experience much slam success until 2011 was because: he was NOT good enough at the time.

Period.


James Says:

@hippy chic, welcome back. And congratulations on Murray, a Brit, winning Wimbledon after 77 years! :-)
Hope you enjoyed your holiday.

Re career golden slam, I’m not saying he will but I think he can. I wouldn’t have said this before seeing his performance in the Wimbledon final. His energy, ball retrieving skills, he was all over the court and put a lot of pressure on Novak. Watching his fine performance I was thinking, Murray can do well at the FO. I don’t know if he will but I think he can. And you’re right, just because he’s never made it to the FO final before doesn’t mean he won’t ever. Rafa had never made it to the final of the USO before 2010 and AO before 2009. So, let’s see how Andy performs next year on clay.
For now I think he and Novak are the favorites for the USO.


Brando Says:

Re Borg:

ONLY a fool would not consider him inside the top 5 of all time: and a definite part of ANY GOAT talk.

By the age of 26, when he walked he away he did many things that few can even compare against:

- CLAY: EASY no. 2 to Nadal on the all time list.

- GRASS: 5 time Wimby winner in a row. ONLY Fed and Sampras have more titles there.

- INDOOR: 3 YEC and 20 plus titles overall. Exactly how many can claim better by the age of 26?

- HARD: He went to the AO ONLY once. He reached 4 USO finals by the age of 26. One final on HC went to the 5th set v MCENROE.

Hardly a amateur on HC.

He was the most iconic, popular champion of a celebrated era. MANY of his peers felt that had he continued he would have certainly won the USO.

He also is a godfather type figure to how the modern day game is played: especially when one see’s players such as NADAL plying their trade today.

Long story short:

You have to be a muppet not to recognize Borg is a solid top 5 of all time!


Sean Randall Says:

The waters are turbulent here (and everywhere I’m sure) these days. There was so much “calm”, as Rafa would say, at the start of the year on these “boards”. Now with Rafa’s red-hot start, Federer’s fade and Murray’s rise, Djokovic still No. 1, it’s one for all and all for one.

So if you have any issues with posters, comments and alike, just drop me/us an email. The link is below.

But when tennis gets crazy so to do the posters. And it’s already been a crazy year! I can’t imagine what’s next.


James Says:

@Brando,

Nadal won the USO in 2010 winning all his matches, except the final, in straight sets. He was also clocked serving at 135 mph.

@Elena,

“He has the capabilities already now to become the best player ever. I think he’s playing the best tennis that I ever seen him play on hardcourts. He has improved his serve drastically. The speed, the accuracy, and of course his baseline is as good as ever,” Djokovic, also the 2007 US Open runner-up, said of Nadal.

Perhaps, Nadal did play very good tennis at USO 2010, no?


Brando Says:

@James:

Great post and timely one too.

This is Muzza’s time, his thread.

And yet some have hijacked it by coming here randomly out of nowhere on their BOAT and kick started this whole GOAT nonsense.

It’s a whole load of rubbish IMO.

Let’s stick to the present and Muzza’s win: not engage in the GOAT charade as there is always time for that latter on.

Let alone this idiotic BOAT nonsense!


the DA Says:

@Brando – Are you suggesting we sink the GOAT BOAT? ;)


Tennis x hippy chic Says:

James i still am on holiday till Sunday,but i have a nice brother in law whos allowing me access to his computer, i was saying exactly the same about the golden slam,merely recognizing it as a possiblity,before some people started to get their knickers in a twist,i believe he stands a good chance of retaining the USO and i think he has a good chance at the AO,the only GS i would question for Murray would be the FO,as he has never done that great there,and Rafa(obviously),Novak and Roger are all better CC players.


grendel Says:

@Long Live the King

“Grendel:

The rest of your post has too many lies. I wish we could actually get Von/ther posters you have ganged up against, to say their opinion but I do not want to contribute this petty topic moving any further.”

This is a typical slur. You make the accusation of a lie without in any way being able to back it up. That is the coward’s way. I do not lie. I do many wrong things but I do not lie. You produce the evidence that I “did a similar thing with Von and she came here and called you out?”. If you can’t do that – and, since it is untrue, obviously you can’t – bringing it up is a calumny and when you’ve been caught out, not admitting to it is gutless. If you had had the grace to admit to your, what shall we call it, error, I would have been quite forgiving. But you’re a poor judge of character.

I do not gang up on people. I do not have friends on the internet, although there are plenty of posters I admire. So far as Von is concerned – and I have said this before, by the way – I believe we were both out of control a lot of the time. I am quite ashamed of how I carried on – but I did not gang up with anyone else.

What Danny Morris is in private is neither here nor there, nor is your friendship with him. All that matters so far as this site is concerned is how does he treat other posters. He has “only bullied bullies” is feeble. If you are referring to me, he hasn’t said a lot. He has said plenty about others, though, who have done him no harm at all. “A lot of posters have been driven off,” you say. In the context of what Danny Morris has done to jane, she’s not around, have you noticed, this is sad stuff.

Before this business, we have had just one exchange. You disagreed with one thing I said and, to keep the peace – for I sensed your hostility – I replied “fair point”. You are obviously carrying a lot of baggage about me from some time ago. Grow up, I would suggest.

skeezer

I appreciate your comment. I am not always mellow, of course.

metan

you are a sweet natured girl. Your earlier comment “the entire British is in the cloud 9″ made my day.


Brando Says:

@the DA:

Damn right I am!

LOL!

It’s a colossal load of rubbish IMO: and exactly why is it necessary to discuss that nonsense right now?

There’s no reason for it!

Let’s stick to the present, Muzza’s win, and the upcoming USO swing which is delicately placed after recent events.

This GOAT crap can get on the BOAT it came from and adios out of here for my liking!


skeezer Says:

Sean,

You nailed it and thanks ;).


courbon Says:

After Wimbledon final I was thinking-why Novak lost the match? Apart from Andys brilliant tennis there is obviously something wrong in the Novaks game.And then I’v seen Jamies and Tooties post:
Jamie predicted that Andy will win!( this time without my favourite-You heard that here first!)and Tootie says that Novak will be loosing Grand slams because he is not married and lives in the sin and his parents do not approve of his girlfriend!And I came to realise -THAT IS TRUE!
So, Novak did not lost because his BDH is not working for some time, his serve did not click, he did not recovered well and obviously because Andy played great.No, no my friends he lost, because Jamie predicted he will lose and he is with the wrong girl…
Ok, then I said to myself-Hey, I can help Novak!I have a plan.Firstly I need to contact all my Novak fans and do the following thing:
We need to persuade Jamie to predict that Novak will win US Open.Easy-I think we can bribe her with couple of Wimbledon tickets-Jane, you are in charge of that.
Second task is bit harder-we need to kidnap Novaks girlfriend and keep her imprisoned until he is 30- ( and wins more slams )I promise we will treat her well.So, I thought we get her far away from the civilised world…hmmm…AUSTRALIA! Right, for this task Wog Boy will be very helpful and I need one bady to help me with kidnapping. Bada Bing ( well if you gonna call yourself after Sopranos hangout, then you should be up to task) will be right person.Mat4, you can help us by writing all this down so we can make money on the book when we sit in the jail later…If any other Novaks fan wants to help-very welcomed!
So, here we go-Novak will win more slams with help of his loyal fans.I feel so much better now…


James Says:

“Let’s stick to the present and Muzza’s win”

Well said @Brando. As @The DA says, we can sink the GOAT BOAT for now.


Tennis x hippy chic Says:

Courbon LMAO at your post :D..


Polo Says:

Grendel,

LLTK said earlier that Danny Morris is planning to put up a tennis/sports site. LLTK wants to work for him. That is why LLTK is a staunch defender of DM and tries to build up DM’s image. He also admitted that he may be biased. He was correct about that part.


Margot Says:

@Sean
You seem to have removed an especially nasty post and, in the context of what’s gone on, that’s saying something.
Cheers.


Bada Bing Says:

Bada Bing ( well if you gonna call yourself after Sopranos hangout, then you should be up to task

Ya talked me into it. “Everytime I try to leave…they pull me back.”


DC Says:

I really don’t understand what the GOAT debate is about. In any sport, there are only 2 records. i.e. time at no 1, and the number of major tournaments one. All other so called records are just statistics players collect as part of their career.

In Tennis, Federer holds both these Records, 17 GS & 301 weeks at # 1. Pete comes second.


skeezer Says:

^thats a wrap!


Steve 27 Says:

No Daniel, Nadal was in all the match the superior player. He had bp in the second(3-2)and in the fourth(6-5, serving for the match).
I recommend you let your subjectivity aside and tell it like it is. In Australia 2012 at the second and third set, Nadal returned to play defense favoring the Serb to take the lead. When Nadal plays his outdoor hc maximum he can beat anyone.

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