So great of Nadal to spend time for poor kids in India.He has a heart of gold.He is a genuine example for kids to follow.Tennis is lucky to have him as its ambassador.He is conscious of the fact that he is in a position to help others.Carry on Rafa!

October 18th, 2010 at 12:38 pm

Despite all the hectic scheduling, it’s so nice to see Nadal taking some time out to help children. It should be really satisfying to help put a smile on children’s faces and provide them with opportunities, especially in poorer countries. Well done Nadal and keep it up!

I know Federer is also very active in all these things. Sports world, esp. tennis, is blessed to have these two at the helm right now. Hope the trend continues.

October 18th, 2010 at 1:01 pm

God bless you Rafa and all those players whose compassion inspires them to enhance the lives of those in need.

wishing you much success in your efforts to ensure the academic and physical well-being of the disadvantaged. God bless the children and your school.

October 18th, 2010 at 1:04 pm

Good job Rafa. This is a great cause.

October 18th, 2010 at 1:05 pm

Thank you, Rafa !

October 18th, 2010 at 1:10 pm

Thanks a lot Rafa for helping our kids.

Vamos!

October 18th, 2010 at 1:12 pm

Yep, Both Federer and Nadal are really good with these things. Gr8 stuff.

October 18th, 2010 at 1:17 pm

It is amazing to see Rafa promoting tennis with under privileged kids in India. Being Indian it is a very heartwarming gesture for my country. Thanks Rafa.

October 18th, 2010 at 1:30 pm

Kudos to Rafa for doing this!

October 18th, 2010 at 1:59 pm

I think our indian cricketer must appreciate how foreign players are concerned about india and they should also follow this trend

October 18th, 2010 at 2:08 pm

Generally sports stars are extremely generous with their time and money.

October 18th, 2010 at 2:25 pm

It’s been a lifelong dream of mine to visit India, and I plan on visiting that same area in India next year, so maybe I’ll se the school.

I often wonder why the Bollywood movie stars in India don’t do more for the country’s poor. They make so much money but I never hear of them helping the needy and/or underprivileges children and people, in general.

October 18th, 2010 at 4:45 pm

correction: se s/b see, and underprivileges s/b underprivileged

October 18th, 2010 at 4:46 pm

The courts look to be clay, of course :P

This is more than just a cute footnote: Indian tennis players have historically been bred on the lawns of hoity-toity private tennis clubs, following from the British tradition. This selects for players who play serve-and-volley, and who predominantly end up playing doubles at the ATP level (e.g., Paes, Bhupathi, Bopanna).

October 18th, 2010 at 7:04 pm

Hypnos – VJ Armritrage (spelt right), he was like that, wasn’t he? Didn’t he do a spell in Hollywood? He was fun to watch at Wimbledon – Jimmy Connors paid him tribute, remarking that he was a “dangerous” player. I suppose he may have been “hoity-toity”. He had a great smile and looked like he was thoroughly enjoying himself on the tennis court. Mind you, there were a lot like that then. Tim Mayotte, the tall American serve and volleyer. They’re all terribly serious today. Improve yourself – that’s the motto. Times change.

October 18th, 2010 at 7:22 pm

grendal / Hypnos

Actually played against the Amritraj bros ( Anand & Ashok, not VJ ). Very classic form and nice guys. Ashok got into movie producing, and was quite successful. He produced one of my favorites comedies with Steve Martin and Q. Latifah “Bringing down the House”. A must see if you haven’t seen it!!

October 18th, 2010 at 7:57 pm

VJ Amritraj did a few special appearances in a couple of movies, small roles.

Last year he was doing come interviewing and commentating for the WTA championships at Doha, and I suppose he’ll be there this year again. His son looks a lot like him.

skeezer: Way to go, you were in the big leagues!!

I think most of the Indian players are nice guys. The only player that hasn’t done much, even though she’s been on the receiving end of a lot of attention and endorsements, is Sania Mirza.

October 18th, 2010 at 8:24 pm

Good Job Nadal …I really appreciate your help on Anantapur, AP . God bless Anantapur.

– Girish

October 18th, 2010 at 9:38 pm

HEY RAFA HUGELY THANKFUL FROM INDIAN FANS TO HELP POOR PEOPLE AND IT INCREASE INTEREST OF PEOPLE IN TENNIS AS WELL……….
HUGELY THANK FOR UR VISIT

October 18th, 2010 at 11:26 pm

Rafa…I am the biggest fan of you…You are awesome in all the aspects..You are my life’s biggest example and for everyone in this world..
You are amazing…All the very best Nadal…

October 19th, 2010 at 12:11 am

Good cause. Kudo to msms Nsdsl, who heads the Rafael Nadal Foundation. Shw’s probably the one who picked the project. She raised a very good son.

This is an article about Nadal’s charity act. I found it curious that some posters felt the need to bring Federer into this as in: “Federer does charity too”. These two were not joined in the hip. Could we praise Nadal and Nadal alone when he does something good and praise Federer alone when he does something good? Why do we have to mention Federer in a thread about Nadal? Is Federer slighted everytime someone praises Nadal?

October 19th, 2010 at 12:34 am

Oops. I’m typing while snacking. It should be “Mama Nadal”.

October 19th, 2010 at 12:36 am

JCK,

A little chip in the ole shoulder we have?

Ok, how about Rafa is GOAT? Happy?

Look at all the posts previous? Montecarlo is an avid Rafa fan ( a good guy who is on your side ) who is one of the only “TWO” guys who mentions Fed? So you must be attacking the Fed guy, blank, right? WTF?

blank givin Rafa due props. He didn’t have to post, he is an avid Fed fan taking the time to give Rafa some serious kudos to his cause. What is wrong with saying Fed does it too? A little to close to the vest for your love?

Maybe you forgot to read the first part

“It’s so nice to see Nadal taking some time out to help children. It should be really satisfying to help put a smile on children’s faces and provide them with opportunities, especially in poorer countries. Well done Nadal and keep it up!”

out

C’mon !

October 19th, 2010 at 12:58 am

And if that post stopped right there, I wouldn’t find it curious. I don’t care who posted it, Fed fans or Nadal fans. I just find it curious. I asked a question. No need to use profanity.

October 19th, 2010 at 1:06 am

JCK,

“I found it curious that some posters felt the need to bring Federer into this as in: “Federer does charity too”. These two were not joined in the hip. Could we praise Nadal and Nadal alone when he does something good and praise Federer alone when he does something good? Why do we have to mention Federer in a thread about Nadal? Is Federer slighted everytime someone praises Nadal?”

Insecurity.

October 19th, 2010 at 1:07 am

You guys have the security problem, geez, one poster and you go off a cliff,,,,,,,whatever……..: now your just makin stuff up…. Goodnight and have fun with it the historical posts on this topic are for all to see :)

October 19th, 2010 at 1:18 am

JCK,

absolutely! you’re not being insecure at all, what you are saying is a fact!

that happens in just about everything roger and rafa do; just to point out another example, almost always when nadal makes an unbelieveable shot, i notice he can’t be given credit unless roger is given credit for making a better shot. someone mentioned the exact same thing at tennistalk. the fan commented that when nadal does something that has nothing to do with roger, she noticed that rogers name has to be included anyway.

it has always been that way! i think its done just to remind everybody that roger is the leader and nadal is following in his footsteps. it’s petty and unnecessary, but i can live with it. it’s not going to change!

i guess there are those who want to make sure nadal doesn’t steal the spotlight from roger, but whose competing for the spotlight? this is about touching lives and creating possibilities for deprived children and i’m happy to see any player care enough to make that happen!

ignore skeezer, he is always “the pot calling the kettle black.” he can’t help it!

October 19th, 2010 at 2:00 am

What are u saying is FACT based on this topic with the factual posts given mem, bring it,

October 19th, 2010 at 2:14 am

Going to an idium to call me out of course continues to show your ignorance on this forum, but I for one think better of you .

May I suggest a better one for me as your kettle thingy is getting old.

“A chicken can’t see its own back.”

October 19th, 2010 at 2:29 am

Rafa, can you visit my tennis store.? It will really make my staff happy.

October 19th, 2010 at 3:00 am

Why this unnecessary mud slinging.It is a topic concerning human welfare.Nadal is doing a great job.If Federer is also doing his part,then let us acknowledge both for the sake of humanity and tennis.This pettiness is not needed in the scheme of great positive things done by whomever concerned.

October 19th, 2010 at 3:24 am

skeezer,

too old, maybe! it’s just that the metaphor fits you perfectly!

October 19th, 2010 at 3:33 am

Bobby,

Exactly!

October 19th, 2010 at 5:55 am

mem – jackson and johnson. Hard to know which is kettle and which is pot…..

Skeezer (and Von) – I knew I’d got the spelling wrong. 3 brothers, eh? I’d thought there were 2. I know VJ and one of them used to play doubles. Didn’t play triples by any chance, I don’t suppose..Sounds like you’re a man who knows his way around on the tennis court. Occasionally, you give us a good lesson – I remember you having v.interesting stuff to say about doubles. You should give us the benefit of your inside knowledge more often – whilst still remaining the inimitable Skeezer, of course…

October 19th, 2010 at 7:11 am

I remember Vijay Amritraj playing at Wimbledon. On grass, he was almost unbeatable for the first set, but couldn’t seem to sustain the level.
The grass courts in India were a leftover from the days of the Raj, but surely they couldn’t have been all over the country? Britons resident in India often lived (or maybe had second homes) in the hill country where it was cooler, and that’s where most of the grass courts would be, I imagine. Could a grass court be maintained on the baking hot plains?

October 19th, 2010 at 7:56 am

JCK Says:

“Mama Nadal”

I like that one. I’m sure a big part of why he heads back to Mallorca so often is for his mom’s cooking. Nadal’s family is still a big part of who he is as a human being and tennis player.

About the tit-for-tat that goes on here…yes you are correct…the diametric opposition that you see between SOME Federer fans and SOME Nadal fans is real…and it get’s very difficult to keep things straight in your head sometimes with people occasionally getting caught in the crossfire. There is no shortage of passion on this site, which is great, but for the newbie it might be appropriate that the site have a disclaimer pointing out the fact that for someone who respects BOTH Federer and Nadal and seeks to increase the cognitive dissonance in their minds it is nirvana.

When Rafa’s half a million dollar watch turned up missing I speculated what other people might think of it…I wondered if some might accuse him of being stupid for not taking care of it better…others might accuse him of being a hypocrite for wearing it in the first place given his humble demeanor…still other’s would praise him for getting over the embarrassment so quickly.
In the final analysis I don’t think that he really gave a damn about that watch and that he treated it as if it was just another material object no better or worse than any other…I think that shows where his priorities are and why he showed up for what was probably an event that he had a lot of fun doing.

October 19th, 2010 at 10:01 am

Vulcan: my rules of engagement (I am it;))are:
1)never to write something I wouldn’t say to someone’s face
2) If My favourite gets dissed I will not retaliate in kind. I am not in a playground, though it often feels like it.
3) If I don’t like a player’s game, I must keep in mind that I must not infer anything about their personality. That would be very silly.
4) Conversely, if I break no 3 and start to dislike someone’s perceived personality, this will not interfere with my enjoyment of their game.
Generally, this keeps me out of trouble….!

October 19th, 2010 at 11:04 am

Margot…great list…but didn’t you forget:

5. What would ***insert name of favorite tennis player*** do?

October 19th, 2010 at 11:47 am

margot, Good list. I agree with it and would like to try to adhere to “margot’s rules” myself. : )

October 19th, 2010 at 12:48 pm

If anyone has any problems with me acknowledging the good things done by other sports men & women, including Federer, in this thread, then just deal with it. You ain’t getting any help. Geez, talk about feelings of insecurity…sure can’t beat this crap!

Skeezer,
Thanks for the support! :-)

October 19th, 2010 at 12:55 pm

Margot,

You sure your not a Libra? LOL….great list!

May I add on also, which some of us here do more with words than on the court, I am sure ( I am exclusive of course, lol )

“Never lob short and rush the net”

Something some of us do more often than not in our words up here, me included :)

October 19th, 2010 at 1:02 pm

ugh…scratch the last line. forgot to delete

“Something some of us do more often than not in our words up here, me included :)”

redundant skeez, point penalty

October 19th, 2010 at 1:04 pm

blank,

no prob. WTF? ;-)

October 19th, 2010 at 1:06 pm

grendel,

thanks for the reminder, but it’s not necessary. skeezer and some others might benefit from it! some posters seem to excel in dishing things out, but have a tough time receiving them when they return. they might need your help in that department!

October 19th, 2010 at 1:08 pm

Back to the schoolyard…

October 19th, 2010 at 1:16 pm

adding to skeezer’s line:

…but never to learn anything ever!

lol

October 19th, 2010 at 1:27 pm

This thread started out as Tennis-x gem but it’s trajectory is slowly evolving into a flat spin headed out for sea(note the idiom)

Skeezerweezer: I must say you are a very complicated guy:

You start out by using an obscure idiom to criticize someone, after which someone points out the fact (using an idiom to make it abundantly clear) that you often do this, after which you respond that the person is “ignorant” for using an idiom in their pointing out your predeliction for using idioms, after which you continue to inject idioms into a thread that was originally a feel good thread about Rafa…do you not find it reasonable for someone to at least speculate that you might be a troll.

October 19th, 2010 at 1:27 pm

Margot–great rules. I guess disliking a player because of their looks and mother violates several of them!!!!but I don’t really dislike andy. He’s just not my boy.

I defintely can sink to schoolyard level but we must remember, the existence of all of these players, our favs and our least favs provides us the ability to come here and discuss them. What would we do without this enjoyable diversion. Hang out on facebook? Actually attempt to concentrate at work?

October 19th, 2010 at 1:43 pm

Ahhh Kimberly a breath of fresh air! Thank you

Vulcan

Troll? Back to name calling, hey Vulcan? “Racked” for schoolyard tactics. You made more sense talkin DNA. Move on

October 19th, 2010 at 1:51 pm

Skeezerweezer, there’s a lot I could say but I see no point, maybe a Rafa video will get the “train back on the tracks”:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4T3fKSKXzeA

October 19th, 2010 at 3:01 pm

Vulcan.

That was hilarious. Thanks. Peace….out

October 19th, 2010 at 4:02 pm

Kimberly:” Hang out on facebook? Actually attempt to concentrate at work?”

OY, facebook, if you only knew what tales are woven right there. It’s fast becoming the biggest gossip forum. LOOL

October 19th, 2010 at 4:09 pm

That was such a great commercial; I remember when it first came out, and also when J-Mac donned his Rafa-look of capris and muscle shirt, replete with headband. Of course he looked ridiculous, but I love that he can poke fun at himself. :)

October 19th, 2010 at 5:06 pm

margot: 1)never to write something I wouldn’t say to someone’s face.”

Well, marketing/psychology tells us that we hear the most truthful answers when doing a phone interview, with respect to someone else’s feelings on a controversial matter, than when we talk to them face to face. That eye contact thing you know.

Further, with the advent of email, one can be more brutally cruel about revealing their perceptions of the other, as they don’t have to deal with a two-way conversation, tone, inflection, et al., and the other defending him/herself. Additionally, I’ve found that talking on the phone with a very nasty person eliminates the harshness I’d be subjected to in emails. It’s amzing how different the same harsh/cruel email writer could change on the phone.

October 19th, 2010 at 5:29 pm

Kimberly: “I defintely can sink to schoolyard level but we must remember, the existence of all of these players, our favs and our least favs provides us the ability to come here and discuss them.”

I forgot to address the above. It’s why these blogsites exist as their main purpose is for people to state their opinions, regardless of whether they are liked or disliked for so doing. However, many don’t seem to understand this, as the don’t have an inkling of what ait means to blog on a forum, and/or some forget the main reason for the forum’s existence. Instead, they endeavour to turn these blogsites into a friendship/fraternity club. And, anyone deviating from these unwritten *rules* and is not part of the fraternity, is ganged up on, and shunned — personal friendships end in lieu of one’s popularity. That’s not what it means to blog on a forum. Whatever happened to freedom of speech? The last time I checked, here in America, that Amendment still exists. Anyway, to each his/her own, isn’t it?

October 19th, 2010 at 5:51 pm

hey, what’s this #&*%?

there are a number of anti-fed fans i consider tennisx trolls. they troll this site knowing fed fans are here and post with intent:

1) to vent their fed hating spleen.
2) knowing venting their spleen HERE has the distinct gleaming bonus to their microscopic troll brains of provoking trouble with federer fans.
3) trolls are easily identified in their posts as their posts consistently dis fed and hardly say anything else about tennis. now THAT would be a troll and of course…
4) one can insert another player name, rafa’s for example, where i use fed’s above for “troll” id’ing.
5) even if a troll is id’d, have a little troll-love. they can spice up a blog…wondering, as a couple obvious anti fed poster nicknames come to mind. last but not least…
6) it takes one to know one? sure, uh maybe. but i’ve had a make-over, i think. i cut my pink hair and put on clothes.

yay rafa! yay federer and ALL tennis players who make tons of money and take time to give back by contributing to society in a meaningful way!

and btw, i was not intending to post on this thread at all…LOL

loved the youtube rafa / jmac commercial though. : )

October 19th, 2010 at 6:06 pm

Contador,

Do you always step into a teepee, grab the peace pipe, and use it to burn the place down or is this just an opportunity to remind us of how the world revolves around Federer?

I don’t seek to pollute this thread any more with our bickering but because you seem to sincerely be concerned about my leveling a very serious accusation against Skeezerweezer I feel compelled to make sure things are transparent as possible.

Your definition above is very lean on the most important aspect of what trolls do and that is that they disrupt things by provocation, as is stated in the Wikipedia definition:

Troll (Internet), an internet term for a person who, through willful action, attempts to disrupt a community or garner attention and controversy through provocative messages (“trolls”).

In real world terms it’s the guy in the crowd who, when there is a dispute between two individuals, is the one saying, “I wouldn’t take that &^%$, I’d kick his a**”. Note that these individuals really could care less who wins or loses a fight they just want to see disorder.

I have never stated that Skeezerweezer was a troll I have only stated that on this blog his statements “come across” as such and that a reasonable person, particularly in this thread, would speculate that he might indeed be a troll.

For why this is I suggest you read my comments above (which you seem to have completely disregarded) in reference to the way he is inconsistently and in a duplicitous fashion flip- flopping for the apparent purpose of provoking others. Also note that I am not the first person to accuse him of deliberately making provocative statements on this blog. Arriving at the conclusion that someone is a troll is more like a deductive process than it is a judgment call about ones character…all we have to go on here is words on a screen and the context with which they are written. (For all I know Skeezerweezer is a real world Andy Griffith)

Regarding number 5. on your list: could be if your an innocent bystander in the crowd, but then again if you are the guy who gets stabbed by some lunatic because he was provoked by the idiot who gets his kicks off of seeing other people suffer than I doubt it. Words, and specifically, certain patterns of words can be very offensive and can indirectly result in serious consequences.

October 19th, 2010 at 8:05 pm

Vulcan: “In real world terms it’s the guy in the crowd who, when there is a dispute between two individuals, is the one saying, “I wouldn’t take that &^%$, I’d kick his a**”. Note that these individuals really could care less who wins or loses a fight they just want to see disorder.”

Thank you, and if I might, those people are just in it to gain favour. Just a few days ago, I was subjected to that kind of instruction from another poster to the Djokovic fans because I dared to express my opinion regarding his draw.

____________
contador: My post to Vulcan, has nothing whatsoever to do with your post and Vulcan’s arguments against. I happen to like both of you, and does not signify any partiality for and/or against. The quoted part I picked out resonated so deeply because of the lacerations I was subjected to, a few days ago by another poster, who IMO was seeking kudos, nothing else.

Anyway, carry on guys, I’m checking out.

October 19th, 2010 at 8:27 pm

nah. this is the second time i have read your “suggestion” that skeezerweezer is a troll. i read your comments.

i disagree with your “suggestion.”

and got tired of it. that’s all.

October 19th, 2010 at 8:59 pm

contador,

you sound like you are just waking up! what on earth are you talking about? what trolls? did you name yourself among them. i consider you a troll but then i don’t waste my time pointing it out because it doesn’t matter with me what your comments are; i understand freedom of speech and i dont’ cry and whine when someone make a comment i don’t like. i address it if i choose too; if not, i move on! posters are free to voice opinions, you don’t have to like them. matter of fact, you don’t have to respond. people like you can quickly write up a list of what everyone does, show us the list of things you do.

blogs are places for debates, not for falling in love! the world is not made up of one big happy family; neither is this forum; people disagree; they get angry; they argue; they don’t like what someone has said; they are sarcastic; they make rude comments and on and on; it’s a part of life!

is this blog opened to fedfans only or is it open to the public? you have a choice to post or not to post, but you are certainly not the one to point out the faults in others or call others trolls.

the trolls you so are strongly convinced you can identify is probably you! i despise when someone point fingers at others when they do the same things and then act all innocent! i call them hypocrites and you are certainly on that list!

October 19th, 2010 at 9:05 pm

Grendel/Von:

I see two effects of learning the game at an upscale Indian tennis club:

1) You develop a classic attacking style, because you learned on grass.

2) Because you’re around a bunch of wealthy recreational players, you don’t learn to go to war to win a match, like the Spanish and Argentine players do from a young age.

On today’s tour, these are negatives.

It seems that you guys have more firsthand experience with the Amritrajs, please feel free to correct me.

October 19th, 2010 at 9:18 pm

Hypnos: “1) You develop a classic attacking style, because you learned on grass.”

2) Because you’re around a bunch of wealthy recreational players, you don’t learn to go to war to win a match, like the Spanish and Argentine players do from a young age.”

_____________
Correct me if I’m wrong, but the sport of tennis, was mainly begun by the genteel Brits in India, somewhere in the nineteenth century, as Lawn Tennis, and it’s the reason grass was the chosen surface. I mean, the use of the word lawn, does signify that it’s to be played outdoor and on one’s lawn, doesn’t it? So what type of surface do we find on a lawn? Grass. Also, it was seen as a form of entertainment for the aristocracy. It was never meant to be a competitive sport, but indulged in for good fun, which is the reason the sport was never played by the poor who had to earn a living. For example, you’d never have seen a poor Indian guy playing tennis at those country clubs would you? He’d be busing tables and cleaning up after Sahib, as it’s the only way he could support a family, but certainly not by playing tennis.

Eventually, as the Indians showed more interest and some were fortunate to be favoured by their beneficent masters, they too, began playing tennis, but they continued in the adaptation of the Colonial mentality, a classic, attacking style, as you mentioned. However, that breakthrough didn’t occur until somewhere in the late 90s. All citizens of British crown colonies have adopted that style of playing tennis, for fun, and not for competitive purposes. Also, I’ve never seen a clay court in most of the crown colonies I’ve visited, only grass.

“On today’s tour, these are negatives.”

I agree. Unfortunately, or should I say fortunately, The Spanish players don’t view tennis as a genteel sport, but a mano e mano type of gladiatorial battle, and are extremely fierce competitors — as in, the fittest will survive!

I happen to admire the Amritraj family because they used Tennis to break down the barriers that prevented the poor Indians from progressing in a world of sport and country club life that was mainly reserved for their English sahibs.

Cricket, has also helped the Indians to break down those barriers, thus engendering a feeling of equality among the Brits and the lowly native Indians. I must say the Indians have done an excellent job in both sports and are now looked upon as fierce competitors.

To reiterate my earlier comments on this thread, I would like to see the Bollywood film stars do more for their fellow countrymen, the poor, instead of reaping the wealth but not giving back much. I’m a firm believer of reciprocity.

October 19th, 2010 at 10:10 pm

Von,

I do love the classic attacking style, and wish it were rewarded on tour with more grass-court events, especially a Masters.

As far as tennis being relaxed and recreational, that’s fine — I just hope nobody thinks that will develop future tour players. Are the British currently making this mistake?

October 20th, 2010 at 1:04 am

jane: u do 1 ans 2 and anyway. Like me 3 and 4 are works in progress. How I struggle with Soderling…
kimberly: no sweat, these r my rules, not anyone else’s. Not liking Andy’s hair or his mum are way down on the mild scale on internet horrendousness!
skeezer: For u rule 5- if someone makes me laugh forgive them almost anything. Confess therefore a totally non-pc small crush on superman ….shh…
von: never mind argument/debate/disagreement etc, that’s what we’re all on a supposedly neutral tennis site for; not what I mean at all.However, my breath is continually taken away by the sheer gobsmackingly, awful, rude nastiness that some people can write seemingly
with no, old fashioned word coming up here, conscience whatsoever.

October 20th, 2010 at 1:17 am

Skeezer,

What proof? Your using of profanity? What does the F in WTF stand for? Is the F word acceptable language on this blog, especially speaking toward a woman and a new poster?

Respond to other posts, if I’m the insecured on by stating an observation, what would you call someone who couldn’t let a praise to Nadal go by without stating: “Federer does this too”? Are you afraid of upsetting the army of Federer fans by praising Nadal? Or maybe you’re afraid of Nadal’s overshadowing your idol Federer? Either way, it doesn’t strike me as confidence.

Mem, thanks for the support. I found many things on this blog curious so I lurk but don’t post much. This seems to be a fraternity that’s very unwelcoming toward newcomers. I also found the judging-people’s-opinion-by-whose-fan-they-are amusing.

Once again, Nadal and Federer are not joined in the hip. We could talk about one without mentioning another. Plus, this is not a zero-sum game. Praising one doesn’t mean a slight toward another.

October 20th, 2010 at 2:34 am

margot,

i’m guessing that you are alluding to my comments to contador and since i know you are not going to respond to me directly allow me to make it easy for you and respond to you. actually, you have opened my eyes because i didn’t know that blogs were places where fans gather to agree with each other. i didn’t know that debates and disagreements about things that happen in the world of tennis etc. were not allowed on “neutral tennis sites”; goes to show how much i know about tennis blogs. nonetheless, i’ll keep that in mind! in the meantime, don’t let what i say bother you so much, it’s not healthy!

October 20th, 2010 at 3:47 am

JCK,

you’re welcome!

i’m used to the regulars here; they live here and make a whole lot of noise, but i can deal with it. i’m not here frequently, nor do i intend to be. the moment dictates my visits! if i’m in a commenting mood and see an article that interests me or read comments that i agree or disagree with, i might hang around and make a few comments ., if not, i’ll pop in every now and then. judging by the comments, i’m not sure, but I think i have been voted the HEAD TROLL for this site; i’m honored to be the leader of the trolls,but do they get paid? i hope so! LOL

you are absolutely right, it can be very unwelcoming here for a newcomer! the same happened to me on my first visit, especially after i made comments; you have an idea what happened from there. anyway, you make some great points!

October 20th, 2010 at 4:16 am

mem: What???? Of course I’m not alluding to you! In fact I can’t even remember reading what you wrote. I try to stay out of private quarrels, makes life easier. But please don’t assume I am afraid to challenge directly, if I feel the need, because I’m not.

October 20th, 2010 at 4:47 am

JCK says “Respond to other posts, if I’m the insecured on by stating an observation, what would you call someone who couldn’t let a praise to Nadal go by without stating: “Federer does this too”? Are you afraid of upsetting the army of Federer fans by praising Nadal? Or maybe you’re afraid of Nadal’s overshadowing your idol Federer? Either way, it doesn’t strike me as confidence”

Apparently you are the one who can’t tolerate Federer being mentioned in the same context as Nadal. You are feeling insecure, along with maybe one other poster. Trying to put a spin is not going to cut it. When talking about good things, no one can tell me what I should talk about and what I shouldn’t.

You also say “Praising one doesn’t mean a slight toward another.”.

Who is slighting the other? You are the one taking slight at the mention of the other. Practice what you preach yourself first. I like what both Federer and Nadal do outside of the tennis court and I will mention the two in the same sentence. If you have a problem with that, you can cry and whine all you want. You will also get support from couple of other insecure fans to join in the chorus. Remember schoolyard…?

October 20th, 2010 at 7:29 am

Thanks blank….

October 20th, 2010 at 9:29 am

Margot ,

Love your vocabulary “gobsmackingly”, lol. Thanks also., :)

October 20th, 2010 at 9:32 am

Wow—i somehow missed this amusing discussion. I lament to have not been part of it. But as it seems to have passed, I will say nothing more except thank all participants for a great read.

October 20th, 2010 at 9:45 am

Von Says:

For example, you’d never have seen a poor Indian guy playing tennis at those country clubs would you? He’d be busing tables and cleaning up after Sahib, as it’s the only way he could support a family, but certainly not by playing tennis.

I agree, and anybody can look up the historical per capita GDPs of the colonizers and the colonized to see why that would be the case. Even though the grass at Wimbledon for ages IMO did not produce the most interesting tennis to watch there is no question that it is regarded by MOST players on the tour as the crown jewel of achievement. The reason for this has more to do with the legacy of the sport than it does with the tournament itself representing the pinnacle of achievement. This is why Nadal winning Wimbledon was such a paradigm shifter…achieving a goal and breaking a stereotype requires a lot more mental toughness than achieving the goal alone. The collective pressure of everybody looking at you and saying “nah he can’t do that, it’s never been done before” requires a lot of inertia to overcome. As I mentioned in another thread clay courts are regarded as the trenches of the tour whereas Wimbledon is regarded as the Officer’s HQ.

October 20th, 2010 at 11:58 am

margot, I didn’t know that Soda is a struggle for you. Also agree with your comments about the internet; the anonymity can breed all sorts of contempt and misunderstand, but, as with most things, the opposite is true as well. I’ve “met” numerous interesting, intelligent posters in various places, including on this site. The variety is great too.

Did you see Andy M.’s art at the ATP site? If not, here’s the link:
http://www.barclaysatpworldtourfinals.com/News/Tennis/2010/Pretournament/Art-Of-Tennis-Murray.aspx

Love Murray’s running cross-court forehand; one of my fave aspects of his game.

October 20th, 2010 at 12:10 pm

*oops meant “misunderstandings” @ 12:10

October 20th, 2010 at 12:15 pm

jane: thanx for that! Gr8 fun! As Andy says, stick to the day job. There’s a very nice interview in Guardian sorts by Kevin Mitchell where Andy talks about “staying humble” and his gran’s hip operation. Bless.
Of course, I agree with your comments about the positives of the internet. Nobody I know is such a tennis nut as me so where else would I go to chat?
I love the rich variety of the net too. And I really believe that it’s a liberal force in the world. Just wish people weren’t so rude, is all.

October 20th, 2010 at 12:30 pm

Thanks, I looked that up margot; sweet what he says about his gran’s hips feeling better after his win, and also his hopes she’ll be up and at em for Jamie’s nuptials.

October 20th, 2010 at 1:33 pm

@Von 10.10 pm. Thought provoking post. If I might enter a slight quibble:” All citizens of British crown colonies have adopted that style of playing tennis, for fun, and not for competitive purposes.” I’m not sure when Australia stopped being a colony, and of course they (succeding the British) in effect became colonisers w.r.t.the Aborigines. Certainly because they were white they did not suffer the degrading conditions of most British colonial subjects.

Nevertheless, there was a good deal of resentment of England by Australians, as I found out for myself when I lived there as a very young man for 3 or 4 years. I remember once, when I was working in a factory and I was sat next to an Australian at tea break, there was a Test match going on at the time at the Sydney Cricket ground, and England was giving Australia a hammering (believe me, in cricket, this is very unusual). I watched some of this live, with great delight. Anyway, we were talking about cricket in fairly sulphurous tones, when the Australian suddenly remarked:”I’d like to go to war with England.” Immediately, I began to envisage aeroplanes flying across the oceans and so on and it was actually a bit of a trial for the old imagination.(tanks? how would you move the bloody things 12000 miles, and so on)

What is my point, you must be asking. Almost forgotten it myself as I traipsed down memory lane. Ah, yes. The Australians were obviously a-typical as colonial subjects and perhaps this ambiguity is reflected in their tennis style. In the fifties and sixties when they strode the world stage as a tennis colossus, the Aussies both played for fun AND were highly competitive. It’s a pity you don’t get much of that now. But the world moves on. Still, there are cycles, and maybe things will change again.

mem

certainly you are not a troll, even if your proclivity to the exclamation mark is a touch questionable. But nor, believe me, is contador. She’s a great, great poster with a lovely light touch, and tennisx is lucky to have her. So what if she doesn’t like Nadal? She’s honest about it and absolutely does not make a song and dance about it. I think, anyway, this idea of “the troll” as such, as if you could define it in the way you can define, say, “concrete” is suspect, particularly when applied to individuals. Anyone can behave like a shit sometimes, few all the time. For the record, contador NEVER comes across as a shit, though few of the rest of us can say the same. Certainly not me.

October 20th, 2010 at 1:36 pm

grendel,

Re; contador……a diamond in the rough :)

October 20th, 2010 at 1:45 pm

margot,

my mistake, however, it’s good to know that you are so direct! thanks!

October 20th, 2010 at 1:45 pm

grendel,

it’s a ;matter of opinion and my comments to conty are based on my opinion. yours may differ; it’s expected! however, it’s not important enough to declare war over.

you misinterpret the context; it’s not about nadal; quite the contrary; whether someone likes nadal or not is certainly not something i would expend energy on. people have a right to choose. i’m not hung up on trivial stuff, like who likes which player, that’s beyond my control!

about the exclamation marks, i can understand how they would seem questionable. strangely enough, i can’t help it! i’m in love with the exclamation point; maybe a bit out of control; it’s habit; i should rehab by trying to use some interrogative or declarative sentences and mix in a few imperatives; anyway, they makes my sentences sound more emphasized and look more important, especially since i’m among intelligent posters like you who don’t miss a beat; it’s fun, you should try them!

October 20th, 2010 at 2:09 pm

margot: I understand what you’re saying regarding your rules of engagement. I just wanted to share mine. I hope you understand that it was NOT (OOHHH I shouldn’t use CAPS they’re rude, per my critic) meant as a criticism at all, but just to explain how I feel about blogging on any site.
____________
Hypnos:

Von,

“I do love the classic attacking style, and wish it were rewarded on tour with more grass-court events, especially a Masters.”

So do I. I also wish there were a couple of masters tourneys before Wimbledon similar to the lead up to the FO. I believe that a lot of the good grass-courters, my fave included, could rack up some hefty points, similar to what the Spaniards do in the clay season. To me, that would make the tour a balanced one, as it’s more comprised of HC, clay, and just a smidgen of grass intermingled, take tenn is back to its roots! However, that can only be done if Wimbledon were to be moved from its time slot, and that I think would NEVER HAPPEN.

“As far as tennis being relaxed and recreational, that’s fine — I just hope nobody thinks that will develop future tour players. Are the British currently making this mistake?”

I don’t think that’s going to happen, as they are cognizant that tennis has evolved from what and how they deemed it to be as a sport and how it should be played nowadays.

Thanks for the discussion, I enjoyed it!

October 20th, 2010 at 2:29 pm

Grendel: Yes, the Aussies wanted to be different. I mean they changed the National Anthem as the first order of priorities, didn’t they? They, however, they didn’t divest themselves of all British customs, only some, not the beneficial ones, as they did use the Aborigines in the same manner as the Brits did to the Indians/Chinese, as well as to the natives of the other Crown colonies. Some things are ingrained and exploited when its beneficial to those doing it, isn’t it?

October 20th, 2010 at 2:41 pm

Vulcan: “The reason for this has more to do with the legacy of the sport than it does with the tournament itself representing the pinnacle of achievement.”

Well, we ARE (I’m am/was Brit) a people who are stuck and/or steeped in our traditions, pomp and circumstance, et al., so give us a break, will ya. LOL. Humor aside, the Brits view Wimbledon as the holy graile of tennis, and to them no other surface will be as satisfactorily fulfilling as grass. Strawberries and cream, anyone.

October 20th, 2010 at 2:47 pm

JCK: First of all, let me say welcome! I take it you’re a Nadal fan. You’ll find a lot of them here on this site, which boils down to, you’ll have many to interact with on the topic of Nadal.

BTW, as with all forums, the initial growing pains are there, you just have to show your face (in this case name) more often, and from then on it shouldn’t be too difficult. I can tell you that it’s a lot easier now than it was a few of years ago when I initially made the decision to post on this site. But that’s another story.

On another note, Blank, is a very fair poster. He’s very courteous and respectful of all on this forum. I’ve never seen him being nasty and biased towards any player, albeit Fed is his fave. That said, maybe you two can patch up your differences and start again. If you can do that, you’ll see what I mean with regard to Blank’s fairness. I can’t vouch for too many posters, but I can for Blank. I happen to like him a lot, and it’s due to the fact that he’s ALWAYS treated me with courtesy, and/or not taking sides.

October 20th, 2010 at 2:59 pm

“i can’t help it! i’m in love with the exclamation point; maybe a bit out of control;” – that’s pretty funny, mem (!)

October 20th, 2010 at 3:28 pm

von: I realised that, and I agree about the phone as well. So much more difficult to be nasty than by email. I was just on a bit of a rant :)

October 20th, 2010 at 5:11 pm

margot: You’re entitled to rant. BTW, I speak about the phone from a horrible experience I had with email, and decided I’d rather talk on the phone than communicate by email.

The study also revealed that the truest answers are (1) by email, and (2) phone to a lesser extent. Face to face produces a lot of insincere answers as people try to be guarded, but put them on a keyboard, and WOW, I mean WOW, then you get to see how nasty they can really be. sheesh.

October 20th, 2010 at 6:39 pm

Von

“that can only be done [i.e. to have a couple of Masters grass before Wimbledon] if Wimbledon were to be moved from its time slot, and that I think would NEVER HAPPEN.” Yes, I’m sure that’s true. As I understand it, this has to do with the peculiarities of the – wait for it – English social season, which entail various sporting events heavily engaged in by the Upper Classes; for instance, Ascot, Cowes, and there are probably others. If you move Wimbledon, apparently this could clash with one of these august events. Are there any other reasons? There’s always the weather, I suppose, a more or less permanant trial where grass and England is concerned.

b.t.w., w.r.t to what Vulcan says, I always like to quote John Newcombe, the great Aussie tennis player. He said he always regarded the Centre Court (gotta have capital letters)as a Cathedral. I think I know what he meant, and found it rather moving actually. When that very first men’s match is played on Centre Court, with the defending champion taking the field, there is an odd sort of hush and feeling of reverence. Is this absolutely absurd? Probably. All the same.

October 20th, 2010 at 7:56 pm

Thanks for the kind words Von :-)

October 20th, 2010 at 9:21 pm

grendel: How could I ever forget the Social Season. I mean, is there any other country on the face of this earth whose horse racing enthusiasts dress with such finery as tails, top hat and frills?? Do they still do that? I haven’t been there for quite a while. All that’s needed is Eliza Doolittle chirping “Come on Dover (pronounced Dov-ah) move your bloomin arse,” then I’ll be watching My Fair Lady again. LOL. Isn’t that the same reason why the Queen’s Birthday is celebrated in June and not April, to coincide with the Social Season?

Anyway, laughs aside, Wimbledon, as I said, is never going to move. It’s so steeped in tradition, the grass season, social season, and everything else, would cause for a huge problem, not to mention the rainy days. I understand it fully, and it’s similar to the NA HC season in March, which coincides with a lot of other stuff as well, such as Spring Break. Each country has it’s own preferred time, so tennis, which is not high on the totem pole of preferences for most sports fans, will have to be content with the present schedule, and tournaments.

Re: Centre Court being thought of as a Cathedral by John Newcombe, it all ties in to Wimby being on hallowed ground, and I can fully understand his meaning. Let’s not disturb anything. I personally love the pomp and circumstance, and I do get goose bumps just remembering it all.

____________
Blank: You’re welcome — straight from the heart!

October 20th, 2010 at 10:24 pm

von: ah, but Wimbledon actually got round to putting on a roof. The tradition of rain soaked, miserable spectators and twitching, miserable players is no more.;)
BTW yes, Waterloo Station on Ascot Ladies Day is still one of the 7 wonders of the world…

October 21st, 2010 at 1:30 am

Von,

Thanks for the welcome. I’m not sure why everything has to be seen through “whose fan you are” glass in here. Does everyone have to wear a badge with our favorite player’s name on it to enter so people can neatly put us into a certain groups? As in “Fed fans go here” and “Rafa fans go there”?

I’ve been watching tennis since the days of Chang, Edberg, Wilander, Sampras, Becker and Agassi. I have my favorites, currently it’s Nadal, but I don’t feel the need to lead the cheers online for my favorite or defend him. Contrary to what Blank said, I’ve been reading here for a while and I let quite a few comments critical of Rafa go without commenting because I don’t usually work myself up that much for my favorite athletes and I don’t really have that much time to argue online with strangers. I made an observation and the level of nastiness it triggered told me everything I need to know about the insecurity, the lack of civility and the illogical way of thinking of a certain posters. Sorry, we have to agree to disagree on Blank.

I’m not sure how often I’ll post here, considering my schedule and my interests outside of tennis. I missed the US Open Final entirely because I was working late in office. (I’m considering buying a DVD.) But don’t you think it’s a shame when an internet blog is limited to a small group of regulars because all the new comers are driven away by the unwelcoming wagon?

October 21st, 2010 at 1:38 am

mem Says

blogs are places for debates, not for falling in love! the world is not made up of one big happy family; neither is this forum; people disagree; they get angry; they argue; they don’t like what someone has said; they are sarcastic; they make rude comments and on and on; it’s a part of life!

Debating tennis is one thing. Criticizing a player’s remarks is another. Engaging in a campaign of character assassination is a whole different story. The Internet is very fertile ground for seeding rumors and spinning things in such a way as to constantly question the integrity of someone for the purpose of discrediting and otherwise sabotaging the public perception of who that individual really is.
People who seek to generate destructive memes are like a kid in a candy store when they stumble upon how misinformation can spread like wildfire on Internet.

October 21st, 2010 at 12:00 pm

Vulcan, you have a strong biological and/or anthropological background don’t you? “Memes” is such interesting idea with relation to internet culture.

mem, I looked up “blog” just for fun:

“blog |bläg|
noun
a Web site on which an individual or group of users produces an ongoing narrative”

Some fashion blogs I have been to are definitely about “falling in love” (with purses, shoes and the like, ha ha).

Anyhow, just wanted to say that of course people can choose to argue or debate here; many do it all the time. Nothing wrong with that. I like reading the discussions most times. But some may choose, since they’re doing this in their free time, to enjoy themselves discussing this sport, the players, the matches, and sometimes even side topics (lately there’s been a few of those, I guess in the lull), without doing a lot of debating or arguing. Both seem fair enough.

Forums seem a little different than blogs in my experience; forum users often have to login with a password, and then they have threads based on a specific topic/player. Often a question is asked to which posters have to specifically reply, and thus in which case it is clearly centered around debate (“do you think x…”? I’ve seen that at hockey forums, for e.g.), whereas blogs seem to be more free-flowing and open, with updates, pics, and opinion pieces but very rarely specific questions, so threads will more often go off topic.

JCK, posters here aren’t always categorized by faves (though inevitably a large portion are Fed or Rafa fans). Most seem to enjoy tennis regardless of their faves and some’ve been watching tennis as long as you (or longer), so faves may change and/or grow (I’ve been watching a little longer, since Jmac/Lendl days, though I was quite young). Some posters have great knowledge of tennis history (MMT) or technical aspects (NELTA) or are resident stat experts (Gordo, i am it), so there is a large variety. Anyhow, maybe you will give it another go? :)

October 21st, 2010 at 1:04 pm

JCK: You’re welcome!

With respect to the fan classifications you’ve alluded to, I’d say that’s usually the norm on most of the tennis blogsites I’ve visited. This site is no different from those other blogsites, whereby the majority of the posters are Nadal and Fed fans, and to a lesser extent a handful of Djokovic fans. But to be honest, it’s mainly comprised of Fed and Nadal fans, which is understandable, as they are the Nos.1 and 2 players in the tennis world.

As I mentioned to you yesterday, as a Nadal fan you shouldn’t have any problems hooking up with other Nadal fans with whom to discuss and share your opinions. Be thankful for that. I’m a Roddick fan, which is somewhat of a problem for me because there aren’t any of his fans who post regularly on this site. Sometimes I feel as though I’m in no man’s land. I think the division you speak of is understandable.

Furthermore, let’s not forget that as human beings, we have an innate need to belong and as such we seek out others who share our passion for those things and/or people we like and value. Additionally, there is a natural psychological need for inclusion. When a majority of people are included and made to feel a part of anything, be it a discussion, business venture, organzation, et al., they find purpose — common ground. It is this common ground on which effective social and working relationships are built, thereby increasing our comfort levels and hopefully, allowing us to better accept those who might be different from us. In this case, on this blogsite, it could be the Fed fans’ acceptance of the Nadal fans, and vice versa. When this is understood and/or accomplished, people take the focus off themselves and learn to appreciate and value each other’s opinions and ideas, so all’s good.

JCK, I hope you’ll be able to find common ground with your fellow Nadal fans, and the fans of other players. As I mentioned previously, the division is there, but it’s not just here, it’s everywhere. There is a blogsite I post on infrequently, but I have great difficulty adjusting and/or finding common ground, as it’s predominantly visited by Nadal fans, and to a lesser extent Fed and Djokovic fans, with about 3 Murray fans. That said, could you see me a Roddick fan fitting in there?

In view of the foregoing, I hope you will reconsider your decision to post here by putting the stuff over which you and I have zero control out of your thoughts. Hopefully, we’ll see you around and posting regularly. Take care.

October 21st, 2010 at 3:05 pm

jane,

you did all that just for me! i appreciate it, but since i don’t spend most of my time here, it wasn’t necessary; i guess a blog is whatever you, i, or anyone else wants it to be. just in case you are wondering, i have no intention of disrupting the bond of love and harmony that is ever so present on this site. it’s good to see a group united for a common purpose! i’m a person who believes in freedom of individual expression and i respect the opinions of others, but at the same time i call them out when they are guilty of doing the same things that they accuse me of doing. in other words, i don’t beat around the bush! on blogs people exchange and share different ideas, perspectives, opinions, preceptions, observations,etc, in doing so, disagreements, debates, etc occur. just think, all this time i have had all wrong! thanks for going out of your way to clear that up!

with all due respect, you need to understand something, and i’m putting it bluntly, you are a “people pleaser” and i’m not; it’s your personality, it’s not mine! that doesn’t mean that my intent is to create fury, but when i engage in discussion, i don’t think in terms of whether this poster or the other poster will accept my opinion or get upset or will like me any more or any less. quite frankly, i don’t care! but for what it’s worth, you guys have no need to feel threaten by my presence; like i said, this is not a blog that i would spend a lot time on; for one thing, it’s far from what you guys pretend it is! most people here are unaccepting of any views outside of their own or their friends/buddies. in fact, there are those who simply don’t want certain people with differing views here and i happened to be one of those people not wanted here, mainly because you guys cannot muzzle or bully me. i get it!

take you for example, for you to be such a peacemaker, where are your peacemaking skills when certain posters regularly make backhanded comments about certain players or make nasty remarks about certain posters or use profanity toward others or call certain people trolls. i suppose you miss those comments! i don’t remember reading a single line ever where you let it be known that you disproved of that kind of behavior and that it was rude and unnecessary. so, either i’m the only one that make derogatory comments and stirs up wrath or you singled me out because you are a fixture on this blog, people don’t have a problem with you because you say and do exactly what others want you to. i have no problem with you personally, but i do have problem when you point at me and fail to see the offenses of others. nonetheless, i get your message!

again, if it makes you feel any better, rest assure this blog is not my life and i can certainly do without listening to adults whine and cry like children over something that they feel shouldn’t be said to them. i definitely want you guys to feel happy and free to engage in an ongoing narrative. i’m sure you get the point!

October 21st, 2010 at 5:11 pm

Vulcan & JCK,

Have thoroughly enjoyed your posts on this blog/thread today. Your exactly what the Dr. ordered and I for one truly hope you’ll visit often. Some of these posters do run in packs and it can be overwhelming for someone with a different perspective. Grendel, Conty, Skeeze are quite protective of each others position. You guys have been spot on with your observations and comments.

I think Mama Nadal put her heart into this project and the payoff seems huge for everyone involved. As the head of his foundation I can’t wait to see what she comes up with next.

October 21st, 2010 at 5:12 pm

“Grendel, Conty, Skeeze are quite protective of each others position.”

Really, Anna? let me say how I see that. I’ve always assumed Skeeze slightly disapproves of me, but on the other hand he is an amiable sort of person who doesn’t want to harbour any unpleasantness – a rather admirable trait. Skeeze and I come from, to say the least of it, very different points of view. We do both like Federer – but, come on. As JCK wittily said, must it really be Fed fans here, please, Nadal ones there?

Conty could scarcely be more different from me either, she is jokey, spontaneous, writes like someone talks (which is very clever imo) – but with a very generous mind that can accomodate a quite different sort of person such as myself. Again, we both like Federer. Is that it? Not really, you know. There’s plenty of Fed fans here who wouldn’t give me the time of day, and that’s ok. Contador rides with Kimmi and Kimberley – 2 Fed fans and a Nadal fan.

So there you are , Anna. Personally, I like reading almost everyone’s posts. It’s the variety I like. It’s a strange sort of club….

October 21st, 2010 at 5:35 pm

Grendel,

I’m not saying your all cut from the same cloth. I’m just saying your very quick to jump in if you think one of your “friends” is under attack. Not exactly what the reason is for that, but the common thread does seem to be Fed. Hey, maybe I’m wrong but Skeezer does seem to applaude your everyother post so to think he disaproves of you is just wrong. Conty is everything you say, but can be condescending when she feels the need arise. There are worse things to be than condescending. As for Skeeze, I thought he was an amiable sort myself until he went awol around the time of the USO exhibiting the sort of character assasination remarks toward Nadal that Vulcan described above. I’m pretty sure you were commenting on those blogs at that time, or is that the sort of thing you just skim.
There are some great posters on this site. Jane especially has a good word for everybody. Kimmi is great as well as Kimberly. But Kimberly has expressed her disappointment a few times regarding negative comments made toward Rafa on this site. When I began posting here a year ago, I too was all about peace and love, but learned very quickly that if you want to say something nice about Nadal, it’s best to temper it with a little Federer as well. Wish that wasn’t ALWAYS the case, but it apparently makes Rafa a little easier to swallow for some. By the way, there were days when I use to scan the blogs just to read your posts because I thought they were great.
Haven’t done that for a while, but there ya go. A Nadal fan seeking out the words of a Federer fan.

October 21st, 2010 at 7:54 pm

Anna – well, these things are relative. i would say Skeezy can be a bit of a jokester and it’s not very sensible to get too upset by his occasional forays into Rafa-fandom, which is usually defensive I’d guess. There was a guy called Tennis Bullies something who seems to have stopped posting. Now he never posted on anything except Federer, and his “deluded” fanclub. Some people thought it was vicious, and I once stupidly allowed myself to be provoked, but really, you know, he was a prankster – like a court jester, almost, – and it just wasn’t sensible to get cross with him. Daniel, for instance, one of the staunchest of Fed fans, used to enjoy him. b.t.w. Skeezer has certainly criticised me, and furthermore applauded somebody else who launched quite a thorough attack on me. And that was his perfect right.

I defended Conty once and only once, and even then I was worried that this was presumptious; this was when she was called a troll. I doubt if Conty would want to be defended by me or maybe by anyone, it wouldn’t surprise me if she found that an attention drawing thing which would simply embarrass her. But, what do you do if somebody calls you a troll (and yes, I once called someone that when I was very angry), do you say:”no, not all, you’ve got that wrong guv,I am not a troll”. I mean, it’s silly, isn’t it? The person is put in an impossible position, and dignity suggests silence is the best option. But that is unfair, which is why I felt impelled to do a bit of defence, although it was not my place to do so, and possibly it was resented. Have you thought of that?

I always thought you overated me. Puts a sort of pressure on you, glad that’s lifted! I don’t think you’re quite right, though. I’ve seen plenty of praise for Nadal without it eliciting any contrary comment. You’re always going to get twits – but if I were you, I’d either pay them no attention, or have a laugh.

October 21st, 2010 at 8:27 pm

Grendel,
Glad the pressures off. I admit I was a little smitten, partly the English vernacular and partly your knowledge of tennis and tennis history and the ability to be utterly objective in your analysis of the players, especially Rafa. When I started posting several months ago I felt certain that it was all for amusement, but as you stated above it’s hard not to take a position (or get sucked in) when someone is battering a player (Rafa or Roger) who is giving his best to the sport. My family says I’m almost impossible to rile, but once pushed to the edge watch out. They then blame it on my Sicilian blood line, but I’m equally Irish so who’s to say. Anyway, I seem to remember reading one of your posts in which you admit your rather protective of a few posters. You’ve stepped into a couple of my conversations in the last month, one with Max and another with Conty that left me feeling as if I’d been reprimanded. I’m pretty sure the only thing those two have in common are Fed. I guess I find it odd that you would describe Skeeze as a jokester when in fact there’s nothing funny about insinuating or accusing Nadal of being on peds or cheating.

October 21st, 2010 at 10:39 pm

“i suppose you miss those comments! i don’t remember reading a single line ever where you let it be known that you disproved of that kind of behavior and that it was rude and unnecessary.”

Oh no, the person was thanked for her “nice words”. I was subjected to that abuse by Madmax on jane’s behalf.

October 22nd, 2010 at 12:18 am

mem, I had not intended to single you out – I was responding only to your comment that blogs are meant for “debate.” I’m merely saying that from what I have experienced, even from a definition standpoint, they are more open than that.

I used to get into plenty of arguments in the past at this very site, trust me. But upon reflection, I decided it wasn’t worth it. It would really linger with me because I am a sensitive type, and I thought to myself, “why get worked up, fighting over tennis players in my free time with people I have never even met”? So I resolved to stay out of it for the most part. Sure, i slip up now and then, but I try. Perhaps I should have stuck to that instead of commenting on your view about the purpose of blogs. However, I thought then and still think now that a different view was worth expressing, and so I did.

My choosing to stay out of debates and arguments for the most part has little to do with “pleasing” others, or defending others, or being a “peacemaker” (how can i be called a peacemaker on one hand and accused of not defending against rude behaviour on the other?). but of course you can think what you want about me.

The truth is that I took the decision to feel better when I come here, *the purpose of which is to enjoy tennis and chat with smart people about a sport i enjoy watching, with the occasional digression.* That’s why I like TX. Others can come here and debate, make rude remarks if they choose, etc. It’s freedom speech and I am not here to moderate rude posters; there are staff for that. I try to keep my comments to issues raised in posts, matches, players and/or friendly banter and asided.

And unless there are blog rules against being “friendly,” or whatever, then I’d prefer that “calmer waters” laidback route. Maybe you prefer a different one, which is great; I like reading the strong posts of others, including the exclamations! That being said, I still don’t see that blogs are meant only for debate. They can also be a fun place to discuss a common interest in a friendly way.

In the end, i guess it’s up to the site moderators, who are free to give me the boot whenever they wish. I will leave if and when I am asked to.

October 22nd, 2010 at 1:20 am

I can see that my invoking the “t” word has unfortunately had the same repercussions as someone in a group suggesting that there is an infiltrator in their midst (as in the movie “The Thing”). The result is a heightened paranoia which increases the suspicion cast on all members of the group including the person who originally invoked the word. Unfortunately, unlike the movie there is no quick litmus test to determine who is actually being deceptive. The best anybody can do is point out statements (or series of statements) which are not self-consistent.

There are of course myriad of other ways besides trolling that individuals or groups of people use to try to manipulate the perception of what is actually happening and someone who is interested in shielding someone else from these fraudsters will find them self in for a round of whack-a-mole. All of the usual scams found in real life are infinitely easier to implement in their logical counterpart.

The issue of people attempting to spawn rumors about a public figure via Internet is dead serious. Anybody with any inkling of an understanding of how information propagates knows this. It’s why Wikipedia changed it’s rules with respect to the insertion of negative content in the articles of public figures to limit the mudslinging that some unscrupulous editors were engaged in.

October 22nd, 2010 at 1:28 am

jane Says:

Vulcan, you have a strong biological and/or anthropological background don’t you? “Memes” is such interesting idea with relation to internet culture.

Jane, although I had made my mind up that I was not going to give away any of my key patterns of identification on this blog, because I respect you so much and in particular the way you carry yourself around here I will, at the risk of being trampled upon, say that no I don’t have a background in those areas…I actually studied nuclear engineering in college.(which explains my penchant for intellectual vanity). There are a few concepts in the realm of information theory/psychology/philosophy that I find fascinating and like to juggle mentally to see if some sort of a confluence can be found.

October 22nd, 2010 at 1:56 am

Anna Says:

Your exactly what the Dr. ordered and I for one truly hope you’ll visit often.

Anna, thank you for the kind words of welcome.

October 22nd, 2010 at 2:28 am

Von,

I like your writing. I think I can sit down watching a tennis match – Nadal vs. Roddick ? – with you over coffee. I can sympathize with your loneliness but not so much about your taste in tennis players. :-)

I don’t watch as many tennis matches as some people here. One reason is my work schedule; another is my cable TV which doesn’t carry Tennis Channel or too many tennis matches outside of what the networks do. I don’t get online to find a place to belong. I get online for information so I read comments but generally don’t feel compelled to post much. One thread I did post here was the one about PED supposedly being the reason for Nadal’s improved serves.

I’ve been online for a long time and joined in various message boards/forums through the years. Two things I learned are that arguing online with strangers is not the most productive way of using my time and any relationships/bonds/comadarie formed in cyber space should not be taken seriously. I learned keeping a more detachment attitude for my sanity sake.

I do enjoy reading various opinions posted by knowledgable posters online. That’s why I read here from time to time. I’ll comment only if something catches my interest. Don’t expect to see me near a GOAT debate with a 10-foot pole though. :-)

October 22nd, 2010 at 3:33 am

JCK: So agree with your last paragraph :)
Anyway everyone knows it’s Andy Murray ;)

October 22nd, 2010 at 4:22 am

Anna, I vaguely remember saying about feeling “protective of a few posters”. But that has nothing to do with whether I agree with them or not. It could well be a Nadal poster, for instance. It’s simply a feeling that they either don’t necessarily have the words to express easily what’s in their minds or hearts, which must be frustrating, or they come across as very young, and you know, at my age, you can feel a bit protective. Odd. I’ll leave it at that.
” You’ve stepped into a couple of my conversations in the last month, one with Max and another with Conty that left me feeling as if I’d been reprimanded.”. Don’t remember, but if you say so, it must be the case. That’s pretty appalling. I’ll keep a better watch on myself in future.

Listen, about tennis and tennis history. I very much do not claim to have much knowledge. What I do have is a lot of years of watching and so plenty of funny or peculiar or interesting memories. I have no systematic knowledge of tennis, and don’t wish to have. That’s for others.

October 22nd, 2010 at 12:34 pm

Anyone have any idea why good Indian professional tennis these days is so bare? Since the Krishnan and Armitraj families nobody has done anything good in singles in a long time, and Paes and Buphatti are great in doubles, but they’ve been on tour for 10 years?

You’d think with all this new wealth in India and a billion people they coulf find or develop a few that can play on the ATP?

October 22nd, 2010 at 1:30 pm

Vulcan thanks for filling me in. Wow – nuclear engineering eh? Admittedly the word “nuclear” is a little scary to me; I don’t know anything about it! Lots of mines in Northern Canada have maybe had negative ramifications. What to do with the tailings? I know it’s clean energy though. Anyhow, no wonder you like intellectual debates/conversations. Although my background is in literature and film, as you say, “There are a few concepts in the realm of information theory/psychology/philosophy that I find fascinating”. In particular, I did some undergrad work in communications theory. And the internet is such a fascinating phenomenon, perhaps especially to those of us who weren’t born with it already around; it’s hard to resist ruminating about it’s uses, evolutions, meaning. Thanks, too, for the supportive words, reassuring to hear.

grendel, you do have a great store of memories about past matches; your accounts are always fun to hear. Hope you’ll continue to share as the occasion arises.

Anna, you should post to your hearts content. :) There are lots of Rafa fans around – Kimberly, zola, montecarlo, Mindy, mem, Rafafan, Voicemale1, Vulcan, and others I can’t name for the life of me because I’ve had only one coffee. Thanks for nice words (embarrassing really :)); there are tons of great posters here, and such an interesting variety, from all over. You have Irish and Scilian blood? Fun and feisty combination!

October 22nd, 2010 at 1:47 pm

grendel,

You seem to have me mostly right, and your words about you and I were mostly right rather than mostly wrong, and appreciate your post.

JCK,

Sincere apologies for the calling you out. Posters write often here using mutiple identities to get there comment in, and I mistakened you for that. When you continued to post that was obvious you weren’t one of those. If you had posted before, it missed my eyes. My bad.

I hope you continue to post, you have a lively spirit like “mem” who I am in love with.

October 22nd, 2010 at 2:04 pm

MMT: the Indian have their new star, somdev Devvarman.

I think the young people are probably torn between cricket and tennis.

October 22nd, 2010 at 2:31 pm

JCK: Thank you. Maybe one day we’ll have the pleasure of watching a Nadal/Roddick match and sip virtual coffee. I hope you contine to stop by and post whenever you can. Try the live streaming in lieu of TV broadcasts for the tourneys, considering you don’t have the Tennis Channel. But, even if you had it, not all the tourneys are broadcasted by them. See you around.

_____________
skeezer: “I hope you continue to post, you have a lively spirit like “mem” who I am in love with.”

OOOOOhhhhh, Skeezer’s got a cccrrrruuuussshhh!!!
_____________
Vulcan: so you like to dab in psychology and philosophy, eh? Well, that’s my first love, so maybe we can share some ideas. don’t like Nietsche though. I Probably just turned you off. LOL.

October 22nd, 2010 at 2:38 pm

Margot: thanks for filling me in on Ladies day. I went on two field trips when I was in boarding school to ladies day. At that time I was 13, 14, respectively, and to a young girl, that was a comical sight. Anyway, I’m glad to hear they still have their traditions. As I said, put eliza doolittle in tere, and I’ll be watching My Fair Lady all over again, hearing “just you, wait Enry Iggins, just you wait.”

BTW, why would you want poor Andy M to be a Goat?

October 22nd, 2010 at 2:48 pm

Von,

Yeah, virtual coffee. Too bad Starbucks doesn’t have one online. I’ll be one of its biggest customers. :-) I’ve not tried online streaming. I’m not sure my computer can handal it. Can’t do it in office though. Do you know whether the World Cup Final will be broadcasted and by whom? I am curious to see how Rafa will play. Hopefully he’ll be in better form this year.

Margot,

History will tell who’s the GOAT and history is always written way after the fact. What a waste of time to debate that now. Rafa doesn’t need my help in asserting his status in the sport. He has to do it on the court by himself.

Skeezer,

Your appology is accepted. Do you always jump on new posters, assuming they’re guilty before they prove their innocence? That’s not the way to make friends, as I’m sure you learned.

October 22nd, 2010 at 10:22 pm

JCK; I’m not a Starbucks customer as I don’t drink coffee, but I love a nice hot cup of tea with some scones. Yummy. We’ll find a way to incorporate an on-line Starbucks for you.

Re: The World Tour finals, oh most definitely it will be broadcasted on the Tennis Channel, and ESPN2. I think it’s split between the two; ESPN2 shows the singles matches and the Tennis Channel will broadcast the doubles. There’s also live streaming. On the ATP website, they also offer live streaming. Here are some links that you can try out, if your computer can handle them:

http://www.fromsport.com
atdhe.com
thetennischannel.com

On the GOAT stuff, I’m like you, I won’t touch it with a ten foot pole.

JCK, take care and continue to post.

October 22nd, 2010 at 11:38 pm

JCK,

Well here we have a group, its’ true. We need to welcome more newcomers, and maybe I need help with that. The problem is that I have found out some regular posters who post with one name will suddenly post with a new identity and post something with mean intent. How do we know? I don’t. But with you I have learned to let go of that and let it be. Can’t stop it. If you post here awhile and kinda keep track of the regulars you’ll see. It’s highly unlikely that a newbie will post something like “rafa sucks” and then leave. If they post, they usually will stay awhile. Just my observation.

I tend to trash talk and sometimes I realize people take me seriously and I am really joking. I like that mysteriousness about my posts but it offends people sometimes:(. I post on football, baseball sites where there is more guys, so the trash talking is waaaaaaaayyyy worse. Really bad language is the norm, and leave your feelings at the door, ha! Even I get offended :)

Thanks for your grace, again, my mistake…just so you know if we get into it its nothing personal, you can call me out anytime. If I feel I am wrong, I will apologize.

Post on! :)

PS; I love your take on Rafa,

“Rafa doesn’t need my help in asserting his status in the sport. He has to do it on the court by himself.’

And he has.

October 22nd, 2010 at 11:39 pm

Von: totally tongue in cheek re Andy ;) because the GOAT argument just does my head….round and round and round…it goes….
BTW posted a wee story on “Maria S engaged to Boyfriend Sasha V?” Don’t know if u picked it up, some of these threads disappear so quickly.
skeeze: actually was beginning to think you and mem were married…;)

October 23rd, 2010 at 1:20 am

skeezer,

Maybe this advice will help you: Not all trolls need to be shut down and dragged out. Internet is full of trolls. Can you really can kick out every single one? So why bother? Ignoring them and they will go away. Trolls want attention. You’re feeding them when you pay them attention.

Maybe after learning that, you’ll be kinder and gentler toward other newcomers. :-)

October 23rd, 2010 at 6:26 pm

Not sure whether this is within the protocol. I greatly enjoy this article on the Bleacher Report:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/497454-roger-rafa-and-the-weak-era-idea

The writer appears very knowledgeable. He’s a former player/coach. Of course, Rafa fans will enjoy this better than others. :-)

October 23rd, 2010 at 6:32 pm

JCK,

Thanks for the advice, well received :)

Actually I thought the writer did well of the Maestro. Although the article is well written I disagree with it’s ending conclusion.

So how does Borg rate in the discussion? He only rates him as a “game changer’?

Shouldn’t he be there? He most probably played in the greatest of all time competitive era, along with the Rocket man. Think about it: Johnny Mac, Connors, Ashe, Lendl, Nastase.

The “weak” or “strong” field is a tough argument imo. If Rafa gets 25 GS titles and the field is extremely weak History won’t care. He will go down as the GS title holder, and that is what he will be remembered by…

Side note: I do take offense to the writers take on Roddick “Andy would never have touched the number one ranking at any time other than he did.”

If there was no Fed during that time Andy would have touched #1 a little more than he thinks, imo.

October 23rd, 2010 at 7:33 pm

The writer is a dreamer. If there weren’t any Federer, Roddick would have had many Grand slam titles. 19-2, shows who was the one meeting Fed in the Finals, SF and later on due, his drop in ranks, the QFS. RFed got lucky in ‘/04 w3imby as roddick was winning and then the rain gave Fed the respite he desperately needed to go on and win the match. The others weren’t any threat, but Roddick was, and it’s why Fed always brought his best tennis whenever he played vs. Rodick.

Also, it’s the reason why Fed has so much admiration for Andy, who never backed off, and showed up for each and every match, took his beating and moved on. There are others who retire against Fed, and gave him walkovers, Tommy Haas comes ot mind, and/or took medical time-outs, not Roddick. He just put his head down and played. It’s one of the reasons I like rolddick as he’s got guts. Roddick was always in the top 10 during those years, hence why wouldn’t he have have been No. 1? he laso won his GS at a younger age than Fed.

October 23rd, 2010 at 8:03 pm

JCK: I don’t know if you read my post, but I’ve put in some live streaming links for you.

October 23rd, 2010 at 8:04 pm

I agree with you on the era Borg competed in. I don’t think the writer was putting down Borg. The writer was focusing on the current era to discourage the GOAT talks around either Fed or Nadal. He probably didn’t have the space to go into details about previous eras.

The writer evaluated each player’s tennis talents on a stand-alone basis. All he said about Roddick was that he didn’t have the talents to be #1 in a more competitive era such as the Borg’s or the Sampras’s era. The fact that he made it to #1 in this era is a proof how weak this era is. Without Fed, yes, he probably would have been #1 in more weeks. But that is exactly the point the writer tried to make.

October 23rd, 2010 at 10:02 pm

Who decides who has what degree of talent, what eras are weak in relation to others? Sounds as if this is a purely factual question. Ha! Is it buggery, as my Australian friends used to say….

October 23rd, 2010 at 10:29 pm