Sorry, I’m Going To Rain On Andy Murray’s No. 1 Parade
by Sean Randall | November 8th, 2016, 6:55 pm
  • 235 Comments

Sick of the election B.S.? Ready for a different kind of B.S.? Let’s go! Let’s talk about Andy Murray’s ascension to No. 1. First, as I said this weekend he deserves it and congrats to him for his perseverance and hard work the last 10 years to finally make it, BUT…

Let’s be real here. The only reason he’s on top is because a perfect storm happened:

Novak Djokovic – family issues (more on that tomorrow)
Roger Federer – injured
Rafael Nadal – injured

And, right now there’s no one who’s a threat otherwise to the top than Murray. Stan Wawrinka? Kei Nishikori? Milos Raonic? Not really. So it’s advantage Murray, and he’s taken advantage.

That said, there’s a famous quote in sports, “To be the best, you have to beat the best,” which brings me to my issue with Murray.

I know that you can only beat those who you play in the draw, but gosh, during this recent 18-match post-US Open win streak Murray hasn’t even faced anyone in the Top 10!!! Full credit to him, it’s not easy putting together an 18-match win streak at any level – Futures, Challenger or Tour, so it’s quite an accomplishment – but Murray hasn’t faced anyone higher than No. 11 Tomas Berdych who unremarkably gagged a 6-1 first set tiebreaker lead this past weekend in Paris.

Not interested, you say? OK, what if I told you Murray hasn’t beaten a Top 5 player since defeating Wawrinka in the French Open semifinals. Heck, he hasn’t even played anyone in the Top since the French! That’s five months! Go head, look it up, it’s true.

Again, to be the best you have to beat the best? Is that what Murray’s done? Um, not exactly.

So here we have the best player in the world – and right now, honestly he is – who hasn’t even beaten a Top 10 player in two months or a Top 5 player in five months.

How can a guy play a full schedule for five months and reach No. 1 without facing anyone in the Top 5? Incredible, right?

Of course he can prove me wrong next week in London. But to me bottom line is I don’t think he’s that great of a No. 1, nor do I even think he’s as good as he was a few years ago when he won the Olympics, the US Open and then Wimbledon the following year. He has the ranking yes, but he doesn’t have the wins like he did back then.

And I think deep down Murray knows he didn’t exactly beat his rivals to earn No. 1 like many before him did. Then again, not his fault Federer and Nadal got injury or Djokovic no longer puts tennis first.

But in sports, timing and luck can be everything. We know that.

Anyway, so what’s this say about the state men’s tennis? Well, it says it’s clearly not a strong as it was four, five years ago when all the Big 4 were in form and close to, if not at the peak of their powers.

Look at today, we have Milos Raonic on the verge of the Top 3!! TOP THREE!!! Think about that, is Raonic really the future when the Big 4 fully fade? No offense to Milos, but that sounds truly horrific.

It also quite telling that 8 players in the Top 15 are at career-highs this week. That’s right, Eight! And that’s a product of the tour at the top not being as strong as it once was.

So we’ve been spoiled the last 10 years or so and sadly it’s coming to an end, Murray rise is almost a perfect bookend.

Federer and Nadal aren’t getting back to No. 1 ever again. Djokovic and Murray will play hot potato with the top ranking a little longer (maybe another year), but right now the tour is there for the taking. Slam titles are up for grabs again. So who’s going to take them? Who will take advantage?


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235 Comments for Sorry, I’m Going To Rain On Andy Murray’s No. 1 Parade

Markus Says:

Murray is number one. It could be as short as one week but still, he got to number one. No amount of rain can wash that fact away.


Khb Says:

I agree. Tennis is dead without Novak being physically strong & selfish.
I thought the Trump haters would ruin Djoker.
Fed still hates Novak, but no one cares about Fed lies. Too bad…

Just because Novak destroyed the fake Fedal rivalry doesn’t mean Murray is the real #1. Without Fed, Murray gets to win Year End Championship.


Michael Says:

I humbly disagree. Keep in mind that all the greats beat each other, at some point or the other. Andy has beaten Djokovic in two grand slam finals, including the US Open and Wimbledon. He also played Novak in the last Australian Open finals and was close to beating him in the first of those two finals, when Djokovic suddenly developed a mysterious health issue that threw Murray completely off his stride (as he later stated). Some observers even thought that Novak had faked this. Andy was thus one of only a handful of players who had, until then, actually beaten Novak in such an important match.

The difference between their abilties and skill levels is much less, then, than people realize. Everyone has their streaks, and Novak had his. Now it’s Andy’s turn.

Keep in mind, too, that Andy has improved slowly but surely, and so it may not have been obvious to all just how far he has come. Novak’s rise may have been faster, but the higher they rise, the harder they fall, as the saying goes.

I don’t rate Nadal in the same league. He was always primarily a clay court player. He was never as good as, say, Federer (at Roger’s peak) on other surfaces. He was also a pastmaster at coming up with injuries whenever he was losing that threw his opponents of their stride.

I also question whether Novak and Nadal’s falls have anything to do with them no longer taking drugs that have been recently added to the list of prohibited substances.


RZ Says:

Few thoughts here:
- Murray didn’t pick his opponents. He played the guys who were left standing at the end of each tournament. It’s not Murray’s fault that Djokovic, Wawrinka, Raonic, and Nishikori lost early in these tournaments or weren’t fit to play.
- Some of the other top guys are injured, but shouldn’t we credit Murray for working so hard on his fitness, which helps prevent injury?
- The #1 ranking is a points game and while it’s worth looking at the context behind the points and how those points were gained, at the end of the 52-week period the points don’t like. Murray has the most points over the last 52 weeks, so he is ranked #1.
- In some ways it is fitting but also ironic that Murray got to the #1 ranking with only 1 slam while Djokovic holds 2. In July 2013, Murray held 2 slams (2012 US Open and 2013 Wimbledon) and Olympic gold (they gave points for the Olympics in 2012), and had been runner up at the 2013 Australian Open. Up to that point in 2013 he had also won the Miami masters, Brisbane, and Queens, and in the last few weeks of 2012 he had a runner-up showing in Shanghai and a semifinal showing at the year-end championships. Yet despite all those tournament victories, runner up showings and semifinal showings, and the wins at those tournaments over quality opponents, he still was not ranked #1. Yet he was the only man at that point in time who held 2 grand slam titles. The reason is because Djokovic and Nadal were winning a lot of the masters and 500 tournaments during this time period. It’s ironic and fitting to me that Murray gets to #1 with only 1 slam and without any points to show for his Olympic medal.


RZ Says:

^ Should be “the points don’t lie” not “the points don’t like.”


Farah Diba Says:

I knew it!!I knew this issue would come out..I just don’t expect this soon..Well,i think..

1]Sean liked to provoke..always came up with a controversial issue..i can’t help but think he and staff enjoy it so much when there’s going to be a heated discussion here.

2]How can we explain something that is totally out of our controls?

Did you know Sean?If it’s something were meant for us..It’s going to happen anyway..No if,no how,no what..It is what it is..Just accept it..


Wog Boy Says:

Ar least Sean is consistent with his opinion and if anybody is about to have pot shots at Sean because of this article remember one thing, in 2013, after Andy won Wimbledon, Sean declared Andy Murray the Best Player in the World, even Andy never reached #1 ranking. Considering that was the time of Rafa, Nole domination and their peak form and not so Roger, that was a big statment and huge compliment.
I can vouch for that one since I was here then.

Now, I am waiting for your article about Nole and I am not guaranteeing that I will be so kind to you after reading that one;)


Farah Diba Says:

WB..I still pissed at Tom gainey for the article about Nole and his marital status that was put here for all of us to discuss.No respect whatsoever..


Wog Boy Says:

FD,

I am not so pissed, after all this is a forum (and business), more hits they have more money they make. Nole is partly to blame himself for speculations, even I speculate about “what’s going on with Novak Djokovic”, let’s be honest, besides Andy’s consistency it was actually Nole’s inconsistency (possible injury) and lousy play since FO that handed #1 to Andy, nothing wrong with that and none of Andy’s business to think about that, he saw the opportunity to become #1 and grabbed it with both hands, and he is rightfully the best player in the world atm, weak or not weak era, good on him.


Farah Diba Says:

WB..I agree with most of your points but still..This is a very educated tennis site where we discussed almost everything in this world, but when he put up a thread as personal as Nole’s marital status here,it’s like we read a TMZ or E!news or PageSix..If we want that kind of stuff,we can easily find it ourselves right?I don’t like something as personal as our marriage were display for all everyone to read and discussed.I’m sorry,i can’t accept that..And,it’s our job as a fan to voiced our opinion about that,maybe they will think twice next time when they want to do that again..As far as i know,i can’t recall anything like that were put up here before..But maybe i’m wrong..


Wog Boy Says:

Just wait for tomorrow’s Sean’s article about Nole “marital problems”, I bet it’s going to be “hot potato hot potato”:), and Sean is not Nole fan.


roy Says:

In ideal conditions it’s really a competition between Nadal and Djokovic. And when Nadal is healthy, it’s very close on all surfaces, as shown a few years back. The slightest drop from either results in the other getting on top. In fact, Nadal is more steady when he’s on top, where as Djoker has more ridiculous streaks (off clay) but can crash harder mentally.

And don’t forget Federer’s success the last few years has relied heavily on Nadal’s physical problems, much like Murray’s situation. That’s conveniently overlooked.


Wog Boy Says:

It could be that Nole based his game and career on Rafa and Roger game and overthrowing them from their, best in the world position, ones he fully achieved it and they disappeared as his major opponents (beaten, injured, old…) he suddenly found himself full filled as tennis player and without motivation? Now being #2 and having Andy infront of him things might change and motivation might come back…though I am doubtful.


Sean Randall Says:

Markus, he’ll have No. 1 for life. It will never get taken away.

Michael, that’s my point. Murray beat Djokovic, beat Federer in those big finals in 2012-13. This year, who’s he beaten? So I think he was a better player back then.

Farah, I accept it. I just don’t think Murray’s a very good No. 1.

Wog Boy, I don’t think you’ll be disappointed.

Roy, yup. When Nadal goes down (and Federer, Djokovic), everyone benefits. The only reason Federer won that French Open is due to Nadal dealing with the divorce of his parents.


Farah Diba Says:

Sean My Man…Then we have to agree to disagree..I think it is too soon to came up with that statement Sean.He’s just been No 1 for only for a couple of days now,why don’t we wait until next year to make a conclusion like that.Somehow,i sensed that he will prove you wrong next year Sean..And i promised you,if that day come,i will paste the link of this thread and show it to you just so you know how wrong you were..Okay?


Danica Says:

Michael,
Please. If Novak took drugs, so did Andy. There now.
With such a holistic life approach and saying years ago (after retiring in a DC match with Davidenko due to illness) that health always comes first, I hardly doubt he was doing anything suspicious.

As far as Andy’s #1 is concerned, yes, he didn’t have strong challengers, he played some tight three setters, he didn’t face and beat RoNaNo, but… He amassed the highest number of points and was the most consistent. The strongest. Tough luck for others. Andy deserved it. In ten years, no one will be talking about his opponents but the #1 spot will remain forever.


Margot Says:

Excellent posts on here…….so far lol, no need to add anything at all. Let’s just see how 2017 unfolds.


RZ Says:

I’ll add that we’ve gotten uaed to very dominant #1s. Fed became #1 and starting winning everything. Then Nadal started cleaning up as #1. Then we had that with Djokovic. But really such dominant #1s isn’t the norm. Take a look at who Hewitt, Roddick, Ferrero, Moya, Rafter, etc. played and beat and the number of titles they won to become #1. Andy is a much stronger #1 than those guys even if he isn’t the dominant #1 in the mode of Fedalovic.


Wog Boy Says:

I would like to congratulate Americans for being brave and getting rid of Clinton dinasty and choosing Mr Donald Trumpovic know as Trajče in Serbia for the next President of USA.
So many European governments have eggs on their faces for openly supporting Mrs Clinton and getting involved in her campaign, I fa..en love it:))


Margot Says:

Lol! Didn’t take long for the “weak era” card to be played did it, regarding Andy?
Bernie Saunders should’ve won! :( Good luck USA you’re sure gonna need it, unfortunately so will the rest of us.


Wog Boy Says:

I don’t know if traditon in America is the same as in Australia, but here losing candidate after election always addresses followers to thank them for support and help in campaign etc.
I heard Mrs Clinton declined to make losers speach, that is unthinkable here, but maybe it is ok in America.


J-Kath Says:

Wog Boy

I think they are still expecting Clinton to make a loser’s speech – evidently she did prepare one.


Wog Boy Says:

JK,
I was surfing sites and all what I found that John Podesta appeared in Javits Center, wherever that is and told people to go home and she won’t be coming and addressing her followers, if she does it from somwhere else later or next morning that’s is not the same, at least not here, you do it same night at designated place (hotel, some center etc).


J-Kath Says:

While I agree that there are some excellent opinions presented here, my problem is I disagree with the concept of this article, namely: It simply is not true that Andy Murray got to no.1 because of the following:

“Novak Djokovic – family issues (more on that tomorrow)
Roger Federer – injured
Rafael Nadal – injured”

The contest was between Nole and Andy Only. The other two, great players as they were and still almost are, were not in the contest. (Not to say they can’t revive and challenge again – but never like they could in their hey-days).

Nor should anyone assume to know that if Roger and Rafa had been present, had not been injured, that Nole and Andy would not be in a race for no.1 but would have been a 4-man race.


J-Kath Says:

WogBoy

Yes, there is that.


Willow Says:

I Seem to remember last year, a thread on Novaks amazing stats, then we had another with Sean saying that his year was overated because of Nadals fall, Federer being old, Murray still trying to discover his form, no Delpo blahdy blah, he also said Nadals year in 2013 was great but overated, we get a thread on Murray being number 1, and then another saying about raining on his parade, it all gets somewhat confusing to say the least, players getting credit for their achievements, then in the next breath been knocked down, so i do sometimes think threads are used for clicks like this one, bearing in mind its a slow week before the WTFs start ….


Willow Says:

I Dont think thats our usual Michael, hes not a poster that ever talked about drugs, so i have my doubts ….


Willow Says:

Ill refrain from discussing anything political, last time i did it was when i said i wanted out of the EU, and it didnt go down too well at the time ….


theDA Says:

lol, time for the customary clickbait article undermining Andy’s achievements. He has been second guessed his entire career, why should things change now ;)

@Wog Boy – you’ll be disappointed to learn that over half the popular vote rejected the misogynist, racist, homophobic, serially bankrupt, KKK-backed, sexual predator. Rather revealing that you think it’s hysterical. But politics should stay off tennis forums imho.


Martin rivkin Says:

any one but joker sick at top of mens game a big big relief, when dominating mens game became utter bore, since jokers gone iffy mens game fun again and unpredictable, longer joker sick off form the better….


J-Kath Says:

Fans of Nole, Fed, Rafa and Andy

This is a tough article on guess who? However, it cuts across a lot of crap – but is it fair?

http://www.livemint.com/Leisure/MiBV6UMiH6lwndDgRJReLL/Andy-Murray-as-world-No1-is-a-celebration-of-imperfection.html


lakie Says:

Not fair. Andy’s game is not limited. The writer doesn’t know tennis obviously.


courbon Says:

I think I live in parallel universe…
First Andy becomes No1 in the world, then Trump becomes a President of USA…what’s next?
Raonic playing one year without injury or Giles becominf Novak’s number 1 fan???
It all looks like a twilight zone these days…


Farah Diba Says:

JK..A very touching article.Thanks for posted it.


RZ Says:

@J-Kath and Lakie, I think the article’s author makes too much of the visuals of how tennis is played, which doesn’t quite prove the point he is trying to make.


RZ Says:

@Wog Boy – she conceded last night (without a speech) and made her speech this morning. Traditionally it is done the same night, but considering how close some of the states were and how late it was on the east coast (3 am by the time it was called for Trump), I think making the speech in the morning made sense.


Margot Says:

Awful article, Kath. I’ve seen Andy play perfect tennis on many many occasions,against Roddick at Queens, against Rafa at a tournament one Autumn, against Fed for first Olympic gold and at many other times. Often too he will play a “perfect” set and then have a wee relapse.
Are you playing devil’s advocate by posting this link?
@ lakie 10.24
Agree.


Giles Says:

Courbon. Hahaha still as witty as ever. :)


J-Kath Says:

Devil’s advocate? Not deliberately – it emitted so much to reach a pre-planned conclusion – as I said it was pretty tough. It took the worst of Andy without showing any of the best of Andy.


Margot Says:

Yes it did Kath. I suppose we’ve got to expect detractors and deniers now.
#toughatthetop
;)


Daniel Says:

Courbon,

Next is Le Pen as president of France come April. Ultra rights in power in a suppose to be globalized world, but not!

Even here in Brazil we have a moron as pre 2018 presidential canditade who idolises former Military regime. Scary times with ultranationalism and “hidden” racism, hate speach everywhere.


Daniel Says:

Courbon,

Next is Le Pen as president of France come April. Ultra rights in power in a suppose to be globalized world, but not!

Even here in Brazil we have a mor€%*£ as pre 2018 presidential canditade who idolises former Military regime. Scary times with ultranationalism and “hidden” racism, hate speach everywhere.


RZ Says:

Re: the tweet that Giles posted, at Indian Wells this year my friend and I ended up sitting right behind Gunther Bresnik while we watched Thiem play on a small court. Once the match was over (Theim won in 2 tiebreaks), he turned around and offered his extra water bottles to us. Small gesture but generous and very welcome considering how hot it gets in the desert during the day session.


Dennis Says:

Don’t forget that Murray also got lucky in the way the 52-week ranking calendar played out this year due to scheduling changes. Instead of dropping next week when this year’s tour finals begin, the points from last year’s finals dropped off in the same week as the Paris masters this year (along with last year’s Paris points), so Djokovic lost an unheard of 2300 points last week. Had last year’s WTF points not dropped until next week during this year’s finals (as they normally should), Djokovic would still be ahead of Murray going into the finals after Paris.


Wog Boy Says:

the DA,

I am not disappointed at all since popular vote doesn’t count in America. Trump might be all of that what you said but he is not war criminal and pure evil as Mrs Clinton is. It would be embarrassing for America if war criminal entered white house, besides, Democrats lost on all fromts, Senat, Congress and Presidency nothing to be proud off. It wasn’t the Trump that divided your nation, it was Mrs Clinton with aggressive scare campaign that came back at her as a bumerang, plus what they did to Sanders, the only normal and positive person in this year presidential charade in America.
Trust me this not just my opinion, but the opinion of lot Australians I know, some of the very educated, anyway, it was fan to watch if you were an outsider like us, at least you will have the most attractive first lady:))


J-Kath Says:

Dennis: Sorri – the clock was off.

Margot: We’ve never had Andy No. 1 before – we are having new experiences….ahm.!


chrisford1 Says:

Daniel – I guarantee you will see the centrists and right take over in country after country if the left persists in branding anyone concerned about the economy or mass immigration of the traditional enemy of Christians into christian lands as “racists, haters!!, uneducated deplorables” who fail to get in line to what self-righteous leftists in each country demand.

In America, part of this shift away from Democrats was revulsion on a level of corruption in Democrats of the like, sadly to say, you see in countries like Brazil with Lula and Dilma Rousseff. And how the Ruling Elites, inc the Republican half of Wall Street, has been merrily destroying industries and jobs right and left the past 25 years and muttering platitudes about how Ricardo’s 300 year old free trade theory ensures that everyone is in a win-win situation.

A big part of our Mexican problems with it’s instability, mass invasion of the USA of it’s least educated and skilled people, violent cartels – is driven by China mass destroying manufacturing jobs in that nation as well.

I wouldn’t call Trump a “ultra rightwinger hater Nazi” or whatever hysterical accusation the left and racist blacks made for 2 years to no effect. He is not a social conservative. He wins and at the same time the populace in 4 more US States votes to legalize pot.


Wog Boy Says:

^^^ “it was fun to watch”


Willow Says:

Give the guy a break, hes only been world number 1v for a few days ….


Wog Boy Says:

@RZ,

Here is the same, Australia is big country, four hours (?) time difference between east and west coast, goes well after midnight, but yet never ever you will see losing candidate to leave without making speach to his followers, that’s the custom here, it looks like she was shattered not prepared for defeat. I had a group of high ranking American businessmen last night, they said the same about her not making the speach, I mean if she phoned Trump she was awake:)


Daniel Says:

Agree in parts CF1,

That’s why the democrats willhave to find a way to target that demographics again. But to me it still shows it is a blame you speach. Blame the mexicans, the chinese, the niggas, the latin and so on.

And sorry, I am a chemical engineer with a masters degree in environmental engineering: I can not take a guy who thinks global warming is a gimmick. I just can’t. Seems people are getting more fanatical by the day and it scares me


Wog Boy Says:

Sean,
Where is Nole’s article, “family problems” one, come on man, you are late with it.


Margot Says:

Spooky it’s 9/11. Germans call it “day of fate.”
Apparently reversing it is also spooky.


J-Kath Says:

Just learned that Donald Trump’s mother was Scottish! Wogboy from now on you need to drink our whisky and make Andy Murray your second favourite Tennis player.


Wog Boy Says:

JK,

Agree on all, actually not long ago my next door brough me two bottles of Chivas, special one, from overseas for minding his house (and feeding his big parrot) while he was away, I thoroughly enjoyed it…on the rocks.
I heard Trump has German blood too?


courbon Says:

Giles, just yesterday I spoke to one French tennis player that was hitting and training with Nadal last year.He said, you could not meet nicer guy on the tour….

Daniel, Le Pen will be most likely president…but why blame people?
Liberal politics betrayed people for the years, globalisation failed Europe and USA working class, while Chinas and Indian middle classes are growing 4% a year, in Europe are shrinking 4%…people want change.Bankers srewed up everybody and nobody is in jail ( apart from Iceland-bravo!)…
to vot for somebody who will keep status quo it means nothing will change, until one day we are all poor…so people want change, however shocking will be ( and possibly not good?).


chrisford1 Says:

Sean, on tennis – I believe “a healthy Roger and Rafa!” would have had no impact on the outcome.
Yes, Roger handed Andy his head with a serving display at Wimbledon in 2015..but I believe Andy was already better than Fed on all surfaces that year. Roger just got lucky and zoned it. Simply, Roger has slowly and gracefully faded, while Andy has slowly and patiently risen with a game he works daily to improve.
With Rafa, the record is 17-7, but Andy split the matches with him in 2015-16, winning 2 on clay from Rafa, losing on clay once. Now Rafa has been way subpar a long time, but Andy played him hard in a 2014 French Open Semi when Rafa was still, Rafa….I do not expect Nadal to be back ever, in 2008 or 2010, 11, early 2012, or 2013 form. Even 2014 form. But assuming Nadal had been healthy, you still had the fact Andy was competitive with Nadal in 2014, and has improved noticeably (obviously to all, even Andy’s biggest detractors).

But there is the deal with Djokovic…and you could say if Roger and Rafa were still around to fight him, Novak would still be #1 and have kept his warrior mindset going no matter what issues were hitting his family short of a looming divorce or family member gravely ill. NO Nole funk..Because Novak Djokovic relishes being good enough to take out Rafa and Fed when they are in good form and do it in high visibility, center court battles. And gone out focused on beating everyone else to get to another QF, Semi, or Final with Roger and Rafa…


Wog Boy Says:

^^^ but I am sure Angela Merkel is not happy bunny after last night, her days are numbered too..


Wog Boy Says:

courbon,

What’s wrong with Le Pen, I love her, hope she wins..somebody has to fix France.


J-Kath Says:

Gosh Margot – so it is.


courbon Says:

Wog Boy-I hear the best story about state of France.
France is like a frog in bowl of wather.If you keep ading bit of hot water she stays in it and slowly dies ( at about 30 celsius ). But if you ad sudenlly hot water in one go, then she jumps out!
France needs a schock, otherwise it will die out…
I did not say anything is wrong with her but I would personally not vote for her.On the other hand, the rest of the field is pathetic…( Alan Jupe-convicted for coruption-imagine Jaque Chirac but less honest?, and the Holland…don’t even go there )


chrisford1 Says:

Daniel, you do share one great fault of the leftists. Assumption people that disagree with them are less educated. You have a Masters in Env Engineering, Chem Engineering undergrad. My prime undergrad degree was mechanical with a minor in nuclear, plus an undergrad degree I got in history a few years later, plus an exec MBA as my work sort of migrated over to the management side then to activities to analyze my industry and change things at a few firms.
Now Chem is probably the toughest engineering major (maybe quantum EE, ceramics eng, bio mech-comp science engineering these days) – but I would say our educations are roughly at the same level – yet we disagree on some politics and probably disagree on the severity of climate change as the models. IMO, they point to human activity playing a role, but unable or willing to quantify how much human resource use is as a percent of the whole “change per any unit time observed”. And the models have been so off that it appears our big upcoming crisis is not that, but lack of adequate fresh water in overpopulated lands reaching a breaking point. Ad it galls me when the Ruling Elites jet into Davos or Copenhagen for yet another “Global Climate Change Summit”, surrounded by flowers flown in from Columbia and Romania, with security running around burning enough hydrocarbons to heat a German town for a year. And telling Westerners that it is their obligation to change lightbulbs, recycle plastic, and ban the use of coal though coal exports to China to run Ruling Elites factories are fine.

For now, remember for every educated Leftist there is a wildly enthusiastic to the point of violence member of the less intelligent underclass in the West and lands like Brazil that is ardently in love with every liberal goodie shoved at them…which means they don’t have to change a bit of gangsta culture and scorn for education. And remember for every ignorant goober who doesn’t believe in evolution, you have a high tech farmer with a High School education and a 130 IQ who finds running a successful big farm takes all his time and thoughts and attention. And tens of millions of centrists like me with degrees that hate PC and other imposed authoritarian aspects of liberalism – more than we hate right wing neocons, Rambos, dumb goobers, Ted Cruz, and those Wall Street bankers that are liberal buyers of pols like Hillary but conservative buyers of pols like Ryan and Cruz.


Willow Says:

Courbon i think thats the whole problem with Rafa, the fact is hes become too nice, too accepting, i miss the ruthless killer instinct, fluffy ducks are nice, and nice doesnt win you matches, trophies or GS, Grrr eff nice ….


Willow Says:

Is this a tennis forum or a political one ?, does anybody have any thoughts on Andy and the number 1 ranking ? ….


J-Kath Says:

Yep Wogboy heard the German connection with Trump too. The only grudge I have with the Germans is that they book all the best sun-chairs at holiday spots and seem to be prowling at dawn to do so…rather Trumpish perhaps.


J-Kath Says:

Willow: The self-appointed moderator who complained about non-tennis exchanges, and was guilty of same, seems to be missing at the moment. Make hay while the sun shines.


Wog Boy Says:

JK,

I hear you JK, when we were little kids going to Adriatic coast (long time ago), my mothers duty was to go early (I mean early early) to beat Scandinavians and Germans for the place on the beach, after that she had to prepare all the meals, pure woman:(

When I grew up and starting going down to Adriatic coast by myself, I didn’t mind Scandinavian and German women taking all the best spots on the beach, I was happily helping them to invade beach and even helping them to rotate their bodies in order not get sunburned but evenly tanned ;)


Wog Boy Says:

Yes, and Andy is #1 in the world!


Willow Says:

J-Kath i said i wanted out of the EU, and i remember at the time it didnt go down too well, i was called racist by CDP, i wouldve prefered Clinton the lesser i believe of the two evils, although i think its a much of a muchness, ill leave it at that ….


J-Kath Says:

Try going to Madeira today – it’s usually the men (with instructions from the women to place personal bags (empty) and towels on best chairs.


Wog Boy Says:

How the times changed, even the men are not what they used to be:(

I am lucky here, plenty of beaches (officially around 90 beaches in Sydney region, but really around 50), nobody fights for the place, to be honest I don’t remember last time when I went to the beach, unless it is business connected, like Bondi or Manly and northern beaches.


Willow Says:

^And no offence J-Kath, but when i talk politics in the real world, it usually ends up in me having a row, even with friends^ ….


Wog Boy Says:

Frenchie,

I was thinking about that hot water treatment, I think Nole needs one too..


J-Kath Says:

WogBoy

I was talking roof top swimming pools in holiday hotels – never liked them – kids in the pool – doing….ah well

Willow:: Why should I take offence? I’m the one who broke the “tennis only” rules. Tennis talk often leads elsewhere – and why not? I was also pro-Brexit. Relax gal – all is wellchez moi.


J-Kath Says:

Wogboy:

I also have lots of beaches where I live (closest 5 minutes walk away) but alas not your weather to go with it as often as one would like.


Daniel Says:

CF1, I agree with you in majority I just think DT is a douch unfit to rule. And no matter how one spin it, I can’t digest it. The things he said is preposterous, misogynistic, no respect for human beings. T’just beyond politics. Heis just a bad human being and shouldn’t be in this position. And the wore thought is that people vote for him. The only consultation was that he lost in the popular vote, at least this.


Daniel Says:

only consolation…


Wog Boy Says:

Don’t tell me Daniel that this woman was fit to rule and be in command of the strongest army in the world? We have seen what she has done while being Home Secretary:

https://youtu.be/vqYJRc0TJkQ


Daniel Says:

Don’t like her either WB, but to me he represents the bigger treat to the world and this recent tendency: Brexit, USA, Le Pen growing, A Nazy sympathizer almost winning in Austria. Some speculating extreme right also growing in Germany. It’s like the world is going backwards.


theDA Says:

@wog boy – from some of your comments above it sounds like DT is right up your street. Seems you share his attitude towards women too. Do you give Melania an 8 or a 9 or how many for the Scandinavian & German women? That you even consider this disgusting example of a human being, with all the vile values he represents, as worthier of the office of president speaks volumes. Most of his prejudices are those I have fought against my entire life and to see someone make light of them makes me nauseous.

BTW, a friend today tweeted screen captures of several FB pages belonging to serbian nationalists rabidly celebrating Clinton’s loss which were littered with foul misogynistic insults. Now that I’ve had a brief glimpse at some of your beliefs let us politely agree to only discuss tennis and never politics again.


Ronn Says:

Thank you, thank you, thank you. I’ve been saying the same thing about Murray and I got shouted down every time by the Anglo fan base and even the Fedatics. It’s about time someone other than me came out and put this “run” of Murray’s in its proper perspective…


Wog Boy Says:

the DA,

Whether you like it or not DT is the President of USA, the proven war criminal is the history!

The Serbian people has all the reasons to “love” Clinton’s, thousands of inocent people killed and country destrojed by 78 days of maniacal and relentless bombing. What is you problem with peple disliking war criminal and being happy that she didn’t became President.

Now take a deep breath and stop behaving like you are above others and your opinion is only one that maters. As far as I am concerned you don’t have to discuss even tennis with me, you can do that with mat4 since you are obsessed with him.


chrisford1 Says:

Daniel, many voted with the belief that Trump was being bombastic, over the top in things he said to drive the energy. He is a showman…like Obama. And Obama had his fill of outrageous BS coming from his mouth that the media in America gave him a pass on…
So expect a mellower guy. He’s had women execs, black friends and partners, he doesn’t “hate” Latinos – just wants to address the Open Borders situation and the illegals that all sorts of countries have similar problems with and expulsion or heavy workfines is the way to remove them. Pakistan and India deport Bangladesh illegals all the time. India built a “wall” to keep them out of Assam. Nigeria boots out poorer country Africans all the time. Singapore and Hong Kong have for 70 years. Canada boots illegals..


Wog Boy Says:

And, it wasn’t Serbian nationalists who voted DT into office, it was American people, deal with that!

BTW, what’s wrong with Melanija, I am giving her strong 8, happy.


jane Says:

this is a dark day (for me anyhow), and i am very happy to be in canada right now, although no one around the world is safe with this radical, impulsive, misogynistic, racist, power-hungry demagogue in control.

and while i understand serbian people’s reservation and distrust of the clintons for obvious reasons, and cannot fault them that, trump is an atrocity and not the answer to this world’s problems. his family are vacuous, based on the words i have heard them speak and the actions i have seen them partake in (like trophy hunting, disgusting!).

anyhow, while we may not all agree on our politics, or our faves, or whatever, i would hope that at the least we all agree on our basic humanity. all of us – all human beings – deserve fair and equal rights & treatment, and our planet deserves our conscious care, or we have nothing.

(stepping off soapbox now)

here’s hoping for an exciting WTF contest to take our minds off all this. tennis can save the world? <3 take care.


Farah Diba Says:

Oh no M!Our “Chappie” is back!Over to you M..


theDA Says:

@Jane – Bravo! Well said. It is shocking to me that people don’t see the difference. This election has exposed a level of ugliness I have rarely witnessed in decades of elections. I thought it was just ugliness in my fellow citizens but clearly it’s international.

As you say, here’s hoping an exciting WTF. Hopefully this feeling of deep dread and mourning will pass in time.


Farah Diba Says:

@Jane…Thank you for your very good post up there..RESPECT MUCH!


Farah Diba Says:

I gotta say this..i am a Muslim,and i’m very scared atm..in fact all Muslim in Asia are scared.What’s going to happen to all Muslim in the world after this?Not all of us are bad people..


Farah Diba Says:

Oh!Sorry Sean..Promise,no more okay?


Wog Boy Says:

Sean,

You were late with Nole thread, we had to talk about something and what is more interesting than American election..and the outcome, no?


Sean Randall Says:

Wog Boy, apologies. It’s been an interesting 24 hours in the US of A.


Margot Says:

Darling Farah of course you’re not “all bad people.” That’s one of the many things that’s making me sad at the moment, a wave of prejudice and hatred seems to be sweeping this world and if we’re not careful we’ll all drown.
Kind of puts CC into perspective doesn’t it? Bet he supports shhhh you know who…;)
@ the DA: Certainly happening in Europe. Liberal values of tolerance, empathy and inclusivity being swept away.
Sorry Sean, but some things must be said, even on a tennis web site. And I’m sure once the WTF starts we’ll all be talking about far more important things than the end of the world.


Farah Diba Says:

@M..I only can say..I love you more and more..Thank you so much for your sympathy and kindness..If only ALL the people in this world have a golden heart like you…..

Bout CC..yeah M,i know who..but shhhh!!


theDA Says:

@margot – True. Very troubling times indeed. I have faith however that no matter how dark it becomes we always somehow manage to find the light again.


Margot Says:

the DA
Hope you’re right, but the hatred that has been unleashed on the back of these populist movements, makes it hard for me to agree. Pandora’s box and all that.


theDA Says:

@Margot – hope is the only balm for me right now. I need something to cling to ;) In the meantime we’ll have to endure crass discourse like Nigel Farage (on his way to the USA to visit Trump) referring to Obama as a “creature” and joking that Donald will grope Theresa May :0 I’m also seeing heartbreaking videos of 12 yr old kids shouting “build a wall” at their latino classmates. But enough!

Tennis, WTF, hope ;)


RZ Says:

@Jane – there are many of us in the U.S. who are jealous of you Canadians. I would have voted for Justin Trudeau. :-)


jane Says:

he’s better, certainly, rz. better hair! haha
although he’s not perfect (who is?); he just invited trump here… : /
i guess they have to “work” together? it’s like when a unqualified person is hired and you have to deal with them: no choice. i wish the usa all the best; you’re the neighbours after all.


J-Kath Says:

Ronn, Ronn – You haven’t got over it yet….as they say “Try, try and try again and in the end you will succeed”. (PS: Like Andy – notwithstanding how long it lasts.)


Willow Says:

Yeah i mean for the love of god Ron, the mans only been number 1 for not even a week yet, for goodness sake give him a bloody break, its not as if anybodys predicting a second coming or anything, i think Murrays fans are merely happy he got there, no matter how long it lasts ….


skeezer Says:

First woman Prez? Michelle Obama would have made a great President. But Club Clinton wanted another shot at it. Ugh. Now we all got this. Ugh. Game, Set, Match.
The Sun did come up though, Murray still is #1, and Tennis is alive and well on planet earth.
May all your serves be aces and your returns be winners.


J-Kath Says:

My one and only political comment on the Presidential race in USA. All Americans need to listen and find a route for the future by going back to the Gettysburg Address. The political system under which they currently operate is not democratic.


Wog Boy Says:

Well unthinkable happened, interesting that 42% of women votes went DT besides being labeled..well whatever..

“a onda je mrmot zavio čokoladu” :)

https://youtu.be/V0pN1PpfIag


Ronn Says:

the DA, you’re a total clown and a hypocrite. You just couldn’t help yourself, could you? Just had to take a swipe at PRESIDENT Trump and then in the same breath say that politics should stay off this tennis blog. But since you started this, I’ll just say that Trump is none of what you just said. Wanna talk about sexual predators then that would be Bill Clinton whose sexual abuse (including RAPE) of women is well documented with most of the abuse happening while he was married to Hillary and she even knew about it. Oh, and let’s not forget he’s the first president in American history to be impeached having sex with a young intern in the White House. Does Monika Lewinsky ring a bell? And racist? Oh, that must be Hillary who was quoted as saying black men were “super predators”. Everything you say Trump is is what the Clintons excel at so you make yourself look like a sore loser and a fool. It’s time to drain the filthy swamp in Washington and that’s what Trump is gonna do! Now let’s get back to tennis…


Ronn Says:

And Wog Boy, thank you. You’re one of the most sensible people at this blog and it’s nice to know there are good intelligent people out there who are aware of the cesspool that American politics has become and The Donald is gonna change that. Go America! Go Djoko!


Ronn Says:

Margot, you can blame the DNC for that as it essentially helped Hillary steal the nomination from Bernie. No doubt Bernie would have been a formidable foe for Trump and it’s a shame that he was treated like he was by his own party. This whole mess came down to Americans not wanting, but DEMANDING change and they weren’t gonna by screwed by the political process this time around no matter what. Bernie was sincere and represented change too and I can’t for the life of me see why the Dems didn’t go with Bernie. Hillary was the worst person the the Democrats could have put out there and they will feel the sting of this stupidity for years to come. It’s time to clean up politics in Washington, and so many of us chose Trump because we really had no choice and we knew exactly what we would get for the next 4 to 8 years with Hillary and we just can’t afford that.


Ronn Says:

ChrisFord, the left has been playing with fire for a long time and using this “evil white” card for way, way too long and white people are sick and tired of it. It’s a shame that it has come to this, but the left has it coming and this is what happens when you alienate whites and tell them either directly or indirectly time and time again that they don’t count and that they need to “move aside”. The left grossly overestimated its strength and grossly underestimated the strength of whites and that’s why we’re seeing what we’re seeing. And in the US, anyway, if the left doesn’t concede defeat and go down peacefully the doo doo is going to hit the proverbial fan, believe me…


Ronn Says:

Daniel, if any political party was seriously interested in improving the country as a whole, why would it have to deliberately target certain populations just to get voted into office? Know what I mean? As per your global warming “gimmick” thing, I never discount anyone’s opinion. After all, science is not bulletproof and has a habit of “evolving” over time as the data available changes…


Ronn Says:

ChrisFord, how right you are. Funny how quickly people tend to forget that Djoko always slumps whenever there’s no Rafa or Federer to ply for whatever reasons. I think he loses motivation a little bit to continue playing at the highest level against the very best. Yes, Djoko is in such a slump now but do you know what? If he had to play Rafa or Federer (or Murray) tomorrow he’d find way to up his level because that’s just the way he is. So in a way I’m glad rafa and Federer will be back next year because they keep Djokovic in check and they motivate him. It’s like Djoko is one of those kids who likes to goof off when the teacher is out of the room but when the teacher comes back it’s back to the books…


Ronn Says:

Ok, I’ll lay off. It’s just a hard pill to swallow to see my boy slumping and so disinterested while Murray takes advantage of him when he’s down. Not Murray’s fault, tho. And as for Djoko, if this is all about an affair you had then set things right with your woman and move forward. To hell with what anybody else thinks! Get things right with Jelena because ultimately this is about you and Jelena and no one else…


Van Persie Says:

“It’s just a hard pill to swallow to see my boy slumping”

Agree, Ronn. Is hard for all his fans…


Willow Says:

My boy!, your boy! as Jane once said before these are tennis players, not people we know personally, Novaks still ranked number 2, im sure he will go on to win the WTFs next week, regain the number 1 ranking, and all Novak fans will sleep easily in their beds easily again ….


Willow Says:

Novak lost the number 1 ranking, nobody died, unlike all those heroes that lost their lives all those years ago, people should remember that, and today of all days ….


Margot Says:

Well Ronn, knock me down with a feather, you voted for Trump. And why is Bil Clinton being brought into the conversation anyway? Didn’t realise he was standing for president. Oh wait, is this the new mantra in the age of Trump, “Blame it on the wife?” Shall I start blaming Kim because Andy hasn’t got enough slams? Much as Jelena has been blamed by some on here TBH.
And another “knock me down with a feather moment,” our very own Neanderthal CF1 also voted for Trump. Jeez Louise what a shock, think I’m having an attack of the vapours.


Wog Boy Says:

Good on Farage for standing his ground, couldn’t be more right:

““I’m the catalyst for the downfall of the Blairites, the Clintonites, the Bushites, and all these dreadful people who work hand in glove with Goldman Sachs and everybody else, have made themselves rich, and ruined our countries,” Farage replied. “I couldn’t be happier.”

“That Obama creature – loathsome individual – he couldn’t stand our country. He said we’d be at the back of the queue, didn’t he?”

Can anyone tell me what for Obama got Nobel peace prize for, I am sure he even doesn’t know, but he took it anyway.

What is impressive in DT victory is that he fought not only against Clinton clan and their clones, but against American press, against people from his own party who were publicly against him, against most of European governments who openly took Clinton’s side and got involved in American election, unprecedentedly so, and yet he won, nobody in my memory that goes back to Kennedy was in that situation, that’s for respect.
Mrs Clinton had so many match points, like Roger against Nole in USO final, but yet Mr DT won, respect Mr President.


Wog Boy Says:

How can you not like this man, Farage, he is so passionate and he believes in what he is preaching, for the difference of others..even if he is wrong, bit he is not:

https://youtu.be/2gm9q8uabTs


Willow Says:

Politicians are all as bad as each other im afraid ….


Wog Boy Says:

I just hope that the DA is not going to blame Serbian nationalists for hanging the banner, few hours ago, on Arlington Memorial Bridge in DC with a message “Goodbye Murderer”:

https://fr.sputniknews.com/international/201611111028649288-banderole-obama-action-desapprobation-politique/


Margot Says:

Wog Boy: Farage’s father was a stockbroker. Farage started life in the city as a commodities broker. “Man of the people” my a**e. He is a hypocrite. Oh and a disgusting little racist too. Next.


J-Kath Says:

Wogboy: DA may not blame Serbians but somebody in the Guardian hands out a fistfull – there’s blame for a few others too from the past ….in favour of Rog. over Rafa.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2016/nov/11/andy-murray-novak-djokovic-tennis-partisan-fans


Wog Boy Says:

Margot,
That speach in EU Parlament (my link), was around five years ago, tell me where was he wrong? The man had a crystal ball, everything he said eventuated. You people call everyone you don’t like racist, sexist, myso…something, that usually happens when you don’t have any valid arguments, slow down with labeling the people you dislike and tell me where was he wrong in that speach five years ago?


Wog Boy Says:

JK,

Few tweets, that’s not big deal.
Should we try to find out negative tweets of British fans agains Nole in the last couple of years, not to mention British press? I am sure you would be able to write the book out of them, not just an article in The Guardian, accidentally British press again. Better don’t go there.


Van Persie Says:

Agree with Margot here, they are all hypocrites, Trump and Hillary included. Will Trump change something on Wallstreet? Very much doupt that. He is also a successfull businessman.
He will change something on foreign policy, but not much. He hast to get also the approval from the congress in order to do everything he has promissed.
Hillary knew well, she was not pupular. How did she expect to win the whole thing??
As Ronn suggested, it is only her fault on this.

P.S. for WB,

Please do not compare Djoko to any politician :)


Wog Boy Says:

VP,

I won’t do it again, please forgive me:(


Van Persie Says:

I also do not blame Americans for voting Trump. It was much more a bote against Hillary, as a vote for Trump. My pov.


Ronn Says:

Margot, if I had a dollar for all the hours I’ve put in researching the Clinton family I could retire now in comfort. The Clintons are a crime FAMILY and it’s hard not to mention good ol’ Billy Boy when the subject of Hillary comes up. But that’s neither here nor there as the list of Hillary crimes is a long one. I just hope that the current Community Organizer in Chief doesn’t give her a pardon because it would be so nice to see Trump carry out his promise and send her to prison where she belongs.

P.S. Oh, and did you know that innocent little Chelsea was using Clinton Foundation money for personal expenses? And that she took 3 million $$$ from the foundation to fund her wedding with that creepy husband of hers? Stop being so naive, Margot. The game’s over. Deal with it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZE74Mdkom4k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFCcDrKqEnQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3_maOArbeg


Van Persie Says:

Correction : a vote, not note.

WB, no worries, nothing to forgive there. I only like Djoko to much :)


Wog Boy Says:

Good, I feel better now, can go to bed, it is 2:30am here.


lakie Says:

The rise of Trump is not unexpected. I am convinced the release of his locker room talk tape motivated many to vote for him because aren’t these types of macho men the ones who made America great? The ones whom women love and feel safe with? The ones whom other men idolize?


Margot Says:

https://twitter.com/i/moments/796417517157830656
The “game” as you put it is just starting. You Americans have to “deal with it” not me. Stop being naïve about the consequences of your vote.


Farah Diba Says:

@M 3:17pm..That was scary!What’s more scarier..THE BIG BOSS gave a green light for people to do ALL that scary stuff to anyone they desire..Can you imagine what’s going to happen in America when this thought starts to seep deep in each of every US citizen?

#Prayerforpeace


theDA Says:

OMG. He’s actually defending Nigel Farage :0 Say no more. That just revealed everything. Ick!


Wog Boy Says:

OMG, she is back, I was worried she committed suicide by the sound of her post after D night, good.


chrisford1 Says:

Margot – ” You Americans have to “deal with it” not me. Stop being naïve about the consequences of your vote.”

====
Apparently that includes issuing Play Doh and coloring books to students at U of Michigan’s “multi-ethnic center”, welfare mommas in Oakland calling up and wanting to know if there would be any delays in the checks and EBT card money reaching them if they moved to Canada.
And we have thousands of protesters getting angrier and angrier that their street protests and threats of violence and assassination have not yet resulting in the vte being cancelled.
And all those non-minority leftists “precious snowflakes” that talk about moving to the UK, Canada, New Zealand, Sweden. You know, a good white country. The lefties and race card players don’t talk of moving to Mexico, Jamaica, China…..the racists!!!

No, Margo some Americans aren’t not dealing with it well. Can the UK take in a million or so? We won’t miss the crybabies and pussies. The former campus PC enforcers…the Democrat insiders that got rich off race lawsuits and green energy scams. They are just the sort of people lefty wacko Jeremy Corbyn wants “enriching” your land.


jane Says:

these being key: “We have come too far as a country in combating discrimination. We are not going back. Rest assured, there is no compromise on racism, bigotry, xenophobia and sexism.”


Ronn Says:

Margot, those are just tweets. And who’s to say these things weren’t happening BEFORE Trump was elected? Guess what, they WERE! And besides, who are the ones lobbying to try to get Electoral College to change the vote so that by some miracle Hillary can still weasel her slimy way into the White House? And who are the ones out rioting and vandalizing everything and causing trouble? That’s right, the LEFTISTS! You know, my lineage is FOWLER and we came from southwestern Scotland although some of us later migrated to Northern Ireland and then later to the eastern US of A. I’m glad most Scots don’t think like you as it would make me disavowal them. The heart of a Scot is about freedom and attrition and bravery to do the right thing no matter how unpopular something may be and you fail miserably. You have become soft and your heart has turned to jelly and that’s a shame. But good luck to you. Now back to tennis…


Ronn Says:

“And all those non-minority leftists “precious snowflakes” that talk about moving to the UK, Canada, New Zealand, Sweden. You know, a good white country.”

ChrisFord, lol! “You know, a good white country”. Hahaha, I had to laugh when I read that. The hypocrisy of the Left is amazing. They’re always for minorities, gays, or whatever (aka “non-white” people) and they say all the right things so they can get that little head rush that comes with feeling they’re morally superior and making the world a better place, and then they pat themselves on the back and retreat to their lily white gated communities with 24-7 camera surveillance and sometimes even armed security guards. Isn’t that just about the funniest thing you’ve ever heard? These people are so clueless that they are beyond reproach. Look, I’ve lived over half my life abroad (Asia, mostly) and I’ve been to dozens of countries and speak 4 languages so I do respect other cultures and all that good stuff, so I’m not some close-minded, uneducated bigot with no tolerance for other people. The reason I have a bone to pick is that experience tells me that the Leftists are some of the most ignorant and close-minded people I’ve ever met and yet they think they are they opposite?!?!?!? And most seldom travel outside the US or even within the US except to hit their favorite vacation spots a few times a year which, by the way, are usually areas where “minorities” hardly ever go to. Seriously, I’m beginning to think that these people are seriously mentally ill in some way or the other. I’m just glad that whatever is ailing them isn’t contagious…


Ronn Says:

And the latest news has it that Djoko really seems to WANT to prove a point at the WTFs which is great news. Just hope he’s physically ready to make his move…


Ronn Says:

“…combating discrimination.”

Umm, Jane? To be honest, how could we even live without discriminating? You get my point? We all discriminate every day, don’t we? What to wear, what to eat, what to say or do. who to befriend…

So why does the left always use words like this that are so broad and unclear in meaning to carry out their agendas? Just more leftist idiocy, as far as I’m concerned…


jane Says:

ronn, the rest of the bernie quote specifies the application of that verb in context: i.e., discriminating against women or minorities.

of course being critical or “discriminating” about what we eat, where we shop, who we feel inclined to friends with, what we watch or read, is just natural. i don’t dispute that. however, conflating those choices with sexism or racism is playing a semantics game. words mean different things in different contexts, obviously. we all know that.

anyhow… i am off to watch a korean erotic thriller by park chan wook.

cheers all.

(ajde noleeeee!)


Margot Says:

Latest count Clinton has 395,595 more votes than Trump. Ain’t Democracy wonderful?


Ronn Says:

Can you speak Korean, Jane? Just asking…


Ronn Says:

Good grief, Margot. Just let it go. She lost fair and square and there’s no going back so leave it alone. But for the sake of argument, what if they somehow found a loophole and she miraculously stumbled her way into the White House into Obama’s waiting arms? Is that what you really want? Don’t you realize that would literally start a revolution and thousands upon thousands of people at the very least would end up dying? Margot, this is the real deal and Americans will NOT allow the democrats to get away with something like that. You seem to be clueless as to how serious this situation really is.


Margot Says:

I had let it go! But you came back at me! And you’ve come back at me again. Take your own advice!


Farah Diba Says:

@M…relax..take a deep breath..go to our shed and listen to our soothing song..don’t waste your energy and time for something unimportant like this..save your energy for Andy..THAT’S much more important.You want to scream at the top of your lung when he kiss the trophy next sunday,remember?


Okiegal Says:

@Wog Boy…..I actually agree with you on the political front. I will admit that our choices for president weren’t the best but I know for sure my religious roots run deeper than my political roots! I don’t believe in murdering the unborn. I realize Trump is not perfect by any means but on some of the issues I agreed with him. We need a conservative justice on the supreme court and Obama care needs to go away. I like Ben Carson and hope he will be what we need for the health care issue. Did I vote for the lessor of the two evils?? Nope, I voted for a person that thinks like I do on certain issues! Americans wanted a change especially on healthcare. I know people whose insurance was going up from $800.00 a month to 1300.00 to 1500.00 dollars a month. The abortion issue ran high too…….


Okiegal Says:

Margot….you have a right to your opinion on political issues worldwide. I voted against her…..just couldn’t get past the abortion issue and thinking it’s OK to kill a 32 week old fetus or full term baby. I did some research on planned parenthood…very enlightening and very racist…….she is a big supporter of that too. I don’t know if he will be good or bad. He will get ridiculed by the democrats just like Obama did from the republicans…..neither side is really ever happy……but you are lucky you live in the UK since you didn’t like the outcome. I have a bunch of very unhappy friends and a bunch of happy ones! 🍻🍻 Cheers Okie!!


Khb Says:

I believe Trump will be good to all races.
The racists that live with skin color labels will love him. Lmao
Yes, he was unlikable with the childish mockery of the writer with fetal alcohol syndrome, but he never allowed clueless killings. He is loud and sarcastic and sometimes extremely funny.
Alec Baldwin & SNL only made him even more entertaining. Poor nutjob Dems.

Hillary & Obama are war criminals & lame ducks, similar to the Bushes.
The word deplorable describes them. War murder victims are considered collateral damage that they soon forget.
Hillary thinks the late term fetuses are just things. She doesn’t realize that there are bad abortion doctors that kill the mother & baby.
Trump humiliated the Dems and even the bitter Republicans, as the voters did. 90% of rural voters voted for him.
She only squeaked by in traditional Dem states and he even came close to demolishing her with popular votes. California, Oregon & New York saved her from losing by over 100 electoral votes. The violent harassing Dems caused the opinion poll takers to say they voted for Hillary.
CNN, MSNBC & foxnews’ Megyn Kelly had a bipolar breakdown.


Wog Boy Says:

Okie, it is good to agree something.
The thing that annoys me is those armchair leftists from the west that never really lived in the world of country ruled by really left (socialist/communist) government, but enjoyed fully blown liberal capitalism, fighting eastern (left) block, but yet pretending they are leftists (socialists), that’s what I called hypocrisy.
I am swinging voter, was never member of any party, not even in Yugoslavia when it was almost compulsory to be member of communist party (no other party existed), but I can distinct good from bad and Mrs Clinton is very very bad person, Mr Trump is person who will depend on the people who will surround him during his presidency, hopefully smart people (the first names I saw are very encouraging) meaning he will ask qualified people for certain matters for advice, meaning again that he will be supervised, so to say.
The first interview he gave yesterday about Syria is very encouraging, he said what Mr Obama never said nor did, he said that he won’t attack Syria since he is allied with Russia in a fight against ISIS and his aim is to destroy ISIS and not to remove Asad since as he stressed “we are helping Asad opposition, but we don’t have a clue who they are, they might turn out much worse than Asad..”
Interesting part that Democrat supporters are “forgetting” is that ISIS was directly made by Mr Obama and Mrs Clinton while she was the Secretary of State from forme Iraqi soldiers and officers in Iraq and send to Syria to overthrow Asad, we can all see results of that policy, same as the results of killing Gadaffi (by the order of Mrs Clinton).

I’ll finish with all those leftists union leaders that great women Margaret Thacher, who saved UK from collapsing but Labor fans will never admit it, kicked out of UK and unfortunately for us they ended up in Australia and took over Unions (meaning over Labor party too) and did the damage to Australian economy as Labors always do by giving mone away to numerous social benefits, to dole bludgers and junkes who don’t have one day of work experience, like the ones (by the look of them) who are now protesting and destroying properties in America.


lakie Says:

Oklahoma voted overwhelmingly for Trump and I doubt that all of them did research on abortion or anything else. Sheer misogyny and intolerance of the beliefs of others. If they think abortion is wrong let them not do it. Why impose their ideas of right and wrong on others? Hindus think killing of cows is a mortal sin. How come these holier than thou guys eat beef? They think it is ok to gun down unarmed innocent teens of color but killing an embryo/foetus which is legally not a person is wrong? Sheer hypocrisy. Those who think even an unborn child’s life is precious shouldn’t be carrying guns.


Ronn Says:

Khb, Trump is not and never was a racist. Yes, he can be blunt and uncouth when speaking but saying that Mexican illegals are raping US citizens isn’t a lie because it is happening and protecting the border (like almost all other countries do- duh!) isn’t racist either. And they even call him an Islamaphobe (a new word, I guess, lol!) just because he wants to put a temporary ban on muslims so we can sort out our immigration system which would better allow us to properly screen these people when they are applying for a visa. It’s hard enough to screen visa applicants anyways (lots of bogus documents and “genuine” documents that can be bought under the table (and over it, lol) back in the applicants’ home countries. The point is that if you don’t follow the liberal agenda they will label you as an overall bad person and that includes all of us and not just Trump…


Ronn Says:

Okiegal, I have to agree with you. I’ve heard of fetuses who, for one reason or the other, were born at 20 weeks and still survived, so yes, these are conscious human beings at that age. I myself and my twin brother were born at 6 months at barely 2 Ibs apiece and we survived so I’m glad as hell I wasn’t born in Hillary’s world or my brother and I could have easily ended up getting cut out and thrown thrown in a garbage can…


lakie Says:

Van Persie November 11th, 2016 at 10:20 am

“Hillary knew well, she was not pupular. How did she expect to win the whole thing??”

Hillary won the popular vote. Trump got less number of popular votes. But he won the whole thing. So your reasoning is faulty.


Okiegal Says:

@Ronn……The thought of it makes my blood run cold! Can’t imagine a doctor who takes an oath to preserve life could do a procedure to squeeze the life out of a little precious baby…..I can’t wrap my head around it……makes my heart hurt……Glad you and your brother survived at two lbs…the odds were against you guys!


Okiegal Says:

@Ronn….The guys that flew planes into the twin towers were here on visas. They took some flying lessons in Oklahoma. Don’t you know the instructors were in a state of shock when the ones who did this faces appeared on the news?? I also think Florida was another place they did some training……I think some Americans are forgetting about this…….They need to get a handle on this border thing asap!


Okiegal Says:

I think an unborn child is precious and I also believe in toting a gun…..in fact I am planning on getting a concealed gun permit……I was given the opportunity to cast a vote for Trump or Hillary…..chose Trump. I am not imposing my beliefs on anyone else. They have their right to believe what they want to and cast their vote accordingly! I have done tons of research on abortion and seen videos on how they do this…it is inhumane! People go nuts when someone shoots a dog that is mean and vicious and turn around and think it’s OK to kill a little baby who was known by God at conception….the scriptures tell me this…….I didn’t say this God did through his inspired word……


Okiegal Says:

BTW I am so proud to be an OKLAHOMAN!!


Okiegal Says:

@Jane in a comment above you said all human beings deserved fair and equal treatment…an aborted baby who is a human being deserves fair treatment too, just saying…..


Wog Boy Says:

The question is why are they conceiving them if they don’t want them, for the five minutes of pleasure one unborn life destroyed (killed), who is to blame, unborn child or selfish mother or doctor who forgot what the oath, Hippocratic oath is about?
This excludes extreme cases when pregnancy has to be terminated due to health risk for mother, or similar, even then lot of mothers take a risk in favor of unborn child, just saying!


Danica Says:

Lakie,
If you happen to kill a pregnant women, you will be most likely charged with double murder. Just sayin’.


Danica Says:

PS: refused to vote but am glad the bloodthirsty ________ (fill in the blank) failed. Anyone but her.


Okiegal Says:

@Danica ^^^^ That very thing has been brought up during all of the political hullabaloo on abortion. The fact that aborting a baby isn’t murder but if you kill a pregnant woman…..you are so right, the killer is now charged for a double homicide…..

@Wog Boy….Tim Tebow’s mother was told to abort her son Tim because of the pregnancy being a danger to her and him. She chose not to listen to the doctors and have her son. What a wonderful young man he is and an amazing athlete. I know there are instances where abortion is necessary for the health of the mother, but I always think of the Tebow story……doctors don’t know everything. Birth control is the answer….why it isn’t practiced more I can’t answer that question…..it is a sad situation. Then there are parents who want desperately to have children and can’t. Adoption is a wonderful thing.


Danica Says:

Okie,
Agree with you. Abortion cannot be a means of contraception.


Okiegal Says:

@Danica…I started not to vote but was afraid she would win and I did not want that to happen…….


Okiegal Says:

Wog, I couldn’t have said it better! I too hope he surrounds himself with knowledgeable people of issues he might not be as qualified for as he is regarding financial issues, I truly believe he can handle that. I don’t think anyone with any sense at all could say he is dumb……wealthy people aren’t usually stupid, just spoiled and want their way. He did let stuff roll out of his mouth that made me cringe. Obviously that didn’t bother the ones that voted for him. It bothered me and I started to not mark my ballot, but I DID NOT WANT HER!! It is done and dusted and it’s the younger set that are all upset and rioting…..they want to have stuff given to them without working for it……ridiculous what is going on here…….I am disgusted!


Okiegal Says:

@Danica 2:18 I agree wholeheartedly!


Margot Says:

How can you be against abortion and against gun control?
Are all foetuses innocent and all victims of gun crime guilty?
Seems to me it is a morally indefensible position.


Wog Boy Says:

“Seems to me it is a morally indefensible position.”

That’s exactly right, only “seems”, but it is very (morally) defensible, you are mixing oranges and apples and you know it.


Okiegal Says:

@Margot you asked the question how could you be against abortion and against gun control. I am not against gun control. Did you say that right or did you mean not against gun control? Whatever….I’m not against gun control. My second amendment says I have the right to bare arms. I do agree that there are people that shouldn’t have them but trying to enforce that would be futile. The criminal is going to get guns. It is just like during prohibition. Illegal whiskey and moonshine was still being made and not being taxed. The Fed’s could not control that either…back then or now. Criminals will be criminals…..they will get guns and should that fail they will make bombs or get a knife. Trust me I will defend myself with a gun should someone try to break in on me. It is my right…..at least it is now. IMHO I think it is morally OK. At least if you got gang bangers out on the streets shooting at each other they each have a chance of coming out alive….a little innocent baby getting ready to be aborted has no defense at all……


Okiegal Says:

BTW…..This was the first time in my life I voted for a republican president…….


Okiegal Says:

The four men in Benghazi stuck in my craw too….and she had the nerve to say “What difference does it make”??


Wog Boy Says:

Okie,

I had Australian army officer, high ranking one, few weeks ago helping me with the group of one Asian country army officers who came here to do technical visit to Australian Defense College in Canberra, who said exactly the same as you just said using different words “..no army personnel can forgive her for sending those people in certain death..” I didn’t know what he was talking about until he mentioned Benghazi, and he was Australian and not American, but through and through army man who despised her..Mrs Clinton.


Okiegal Says:

@Wog……Yes the Benghazi incident turned off a lot of people……Obama care was a big factor too. Hopefully Dr. Ben Carson can be of big help with that issue! Social media was hammering the insurance issue in the last days before the election. People were posting what their insurance was going to increase next year and I really believe that is what turned it around for Trump. You get into people’s hip pockets and that gets their attention! There was also you tube videos of the men in Beghazi being tortured on Facebook and also live abortions….pitiful!!


theDA Says:

People are defending a guy who groped women and laughed it off, is due to stand trial for rape of a 13 year old girl, due to stand trial for fraud. Has a VP who believes in electro shock therapy for gay children to convert them. And you’re taking the moral high ground? Please. You’ve lost that right. And understand this, I’m not accusing you of misogyny or homophobia or racism. I’m accusing you of enabling it. My conscience is clear. Good luck with yours.

And @Margot, correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t the above Aussie gentleman’s nickname a racist term in the UK. It certainly used to be when I lived there. Again, very telling.


Ronn Says:

Okiegal, did you know that 14 of those terrorists came here with tourists visas? And that at least 1 of the “pilots” came to the US on a tourist visa and applied for a visa extension several times? For what, to tour the Grand Canyon? And how many foreign nationals come here on tourist visas to take flying lessons? And when they did take flying lessons, no one found that a little bit odd?Trump is right. We have to have stricter controls on who comes to this country and WHY the come and what they do when they come here. We simply have no choice. This broken system has to be fixed.


Margot Says:

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/president-elect-trump-says-how-many-immigrants-hell-deport/
Lol. Lol. Lol. The chump is planning to deport “2 or 3 million.” Well I mean, what’s the odd million matter to bigots? Do hope for his sake he finds a “terrorist” or two amongst them.
@the DA
Yep.


Margot Says:

And you lovely Canadians as there’s really only two places he can dump these “undesirables,” I’d go about building your own wall if I were you.


Willow Says:

The DA I wanted to stay away from all things political, but i just wanted to say well said, not that would want either running the country though i have to say, rather like chosing if you want to be hung or shot ! ….


Willow Says:

Choosing not chosing BTW, Before the spell police start, and FYI Im tired because ive had a hard working day ….


Wog Boy Says:

I have to explain (an educate) American lady that meaning of “Wog” in Australia and UK is probably different. In Australia Wog used to be derogatory name for Mediterranean and Eastern European people (namely Italians, Greeks and Eastern Europeans) and due the course of time became joke, I am proudly wearing my Wog name since I am Wog, so do all Italians and Greeks I know here and there is plenty of them and my Aussie (anglosaxon) friends don’t mind when I call them convicts sometimes, since ancestors to some of them are convicts.
So I can’t be racists if I am Wog and if I am ok with that, capish? Anything else I can educate you?


Wog Boy Says:

And this is how us Wogs, make jokes on our expense, enjoy it and have a laugh, you need some, since you sound like you are going to commit suicide:

https://youtu.be/vsY503E88I4


J-Kath Says:

My goodness, some very strong opinions here. At least they are varied. On Grandstand they read as if they were collectively cloned. All favour Hillary.

Before my (American) husband’s accident and subsequent death earlier this year his view was “A plague on both your houses”…the USA deserves better than these two.

Off to the tennis – seeyah!


Willow Says:

Im not suicidal far from it, i have an amazing quality of life, im tired as ive had a hard working day, still thanks for the link it was funny, youve shown it before, CHEERS ….


Wog Boy Says:

I wasn’t talking to you, are you the DA?


Wog Boy Says:

Are you “American lady “?


Willow Says:

Sorry fair enough, its just my post was above yours, and no im from GB, and id rather not get involved in the election stuff, and i just agreed with the DAs post in part ….


chrisford1 Says:

I do not believe it is “bigoted” for the citizenry of any nation to decide what non-citizens who barged in uninvited gets to stay, and which that took jobs from the natives, did significant crimes, has to leave.

This disease of Leftists seems to be abating in lands where it has been a problem – the West. Mexicans themselves have no problem robbing Guatemalan invaders of everything on them then frog-marching them to the Border Gate. The Asian countries have long blocked immigration as a threat to their ethnic purity and cultural values without any crybaby hysteria from the US or EuroLeft.

Outside the hysterically righteous PC of universities, some companies, racist black activists, government when Democrats are in charge – the general tone in America mirrors what Wog Boy sees on a local level in Australia. People note other peoples differences, try to get along, and don’t mind some humor directed at differences.


Danica Says:

Wrote quite a long essay here why I cannot support a Clinton again in WH but decided against posting it here. Intetestingly, only the West with their “democracies” seem to cry over this result while for peoples elsewhere this is a welcome news. Personally, I’m supporting friendlier relationship with Russia (“keep your friends close, but your enemies even closer”, if in fact Russia is an enemy) and disintegration and getting out of NATO. Everything else that people are so, oh, disgusted with is pure trash talk on DT part and nothing more. Hillary has a pretty gruessome, bloody trail behind herself. I’ m not giving my vote for no Clinton who brought ecocide to the Balkan region by using the illegal depleted uranium bombs. The incidence of cancer in Serbia is 1000% higher than before. Never before did such a huge amount of young people and children die, not to mention the birth defects. I am proudly on my way to Hell where Mad Albright sent me and the rest of women who do not support HRC.

So,


Khb Says:

I don’t support the Mckinnon hillary on snl, but this Ellen and Kate McKinnon sketch is hilarious. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uRKB4OnLmdg


Wog Boy Says:

You are talking about same Mad Albright whose parents were Czechoslovakian diplomats in Belgrade when Germany invade Yugoslavia in 1941. Same Mad Albright that was shifted to safety by Serbian resistant movement hours before Germans came to take them to concentration camp since they were Jews. Same Mad Albright that was hidden in the village in Serbian mountains and the people risking their lifes to protect them. Same Mad Albright that was shifted safely across occupied Europe to London, just to come back 50 years later and drop the bombs on the very same village that saved her life and life of her family?


Danica Says:

Yes, same Mad Albright who is saying: “What’s the point of all these weapons if you can’t use them?” Same Mad Albright who told Barbara Walters that yes, it was worth killing half a million Iraqi children for their interest. Same Mad Albright who said: “We put the bar for Serbs too high, so that they had to refuse (the propsed deal and get bombed)” (she was suggesting total occupation of Serbia with impunity). Same Mad Albright who said: “There’s a special place in Hell for women who don’t support HC”. Now, imagine if DT said that.


Wog Boy Says:

There is a hope Danica, few months ago she was booed in California on graduation ceremony by students and some teacher and called “war criminal “, students and teachers were filthy that she was invited for graduation ceremony, you can google it.


Danica Says:

I know, I remember that incident. I was quite pleasantly surprised.


Okiegal Says:

I said from the get go way up on this thread somewhere that our choice for a president this election year were not the best choices imo. I had to vote for one or the other and I chose Trump because of his stance on the abortion issue MAINLY! The majority of people complaining on here on this forum don’t even have a dog in this
fight. I’m confused why you even care??? You all can think and feel whatever you want to about me……had to make a choice……..I am not homophobic. I have friends that are gay. I’m not racist either. I do think we should be aware of who we let get visas to come to our country and set up housekeeping because of ISIS. I haven’t forgotten 911 by a long shot…..

@Ronn 12:13….Yes I am aware of that……I am sure they weren’t touring the Grand Canyon…..more than likely touring Washington D.C……HRC had an ulterior motive on her tenure as the president should she have won…..I am so ever thankful she didn’t. I will say again neither one of them would have been my choice but that is not the way it came down. Maybe I chose the lessor of the two evils by my estimation……but I will stand by it. If he disappoints me well so be it! Her platform disappointed me too….The bottom line was that the citizens of the USA wanted change and was sick and tired of the Washington “establishment” and voted as such.

@Danica…..Sounds like you did your homework on Mrs. Clinton……so glad you did!

I hope that politics hasn’t separated me from some posters on here that I have had a good relationship with in the past……you know who you are. I will say no more……hope I still have friends across the vast pond!

It is time for me to get to church for evening services……that should make everyone happy! 😉😉😉😉 Toodles! – Okie


chrisford1 Says:

As a non-Serb, I deeply opposed Kosovo and before that casting the Serbs as the only problem vis a vis Bosnia. I bucked a lot of military vet friends and conservatives when I said that America restarted the Cold War over Kosovo. When a weakened Russia, Serbia’s traditional protector, begged to US to back off and consider Russia’s humiliation, we gave them the finger. And as a reward, got Putin, Medeved, and a massive nuke and conventional forces upgrade.
But the Serbs did some nasty stuff impossible to ignore – concentration camps, massacres, the stupid war with the Croats where America saw the fairy tale perfect city of Dubrovnik being shelled and parts destroyed over a couple of weeks. And Slobbo and Radak sure were not ideal for national PR.

Madeline Albright, Hillary, and the loathsome Dem and Republican neocons cast their lot with the same Muslims that had worked with the Nazis and Ustase rounding up Jews, Serbs and Gypsies for slaughter. I have always wished that some good people who died in WWII had lived, and people like Albright, Soros, the doctors of Japan’s medical unit 731 had not, died in their stead if people had to die. Albright, with herself and family members saved from extermination by Serbs risking their lives to keep them safe, is a particularly loathsome ingrate.
Hillary irks me just as much. While she was braying about her glass ceiling and her rise means the rise of all women and women’s rights, she was notoriously silent about treatment of women by her Saudi benefactors, and worse, looked the other way on ISIS and their butchery of Christians and enslavement of women not butchered as sex slaves gifted to select terrorist fighters and leaders. Hillary was part of the cabal that supported ISIS as a balance against Iran and Syria’s leaders, helping create a monstrously evil entity orders of magnitude worse than Assad’s side, funneling arms to ISIS (think Benghazi), and resisting bombing the snot out of the cancer in the early stages for fear “innocent ISIS wives” might be hurt or Assad would gain if ISIS people were targeted by our USAF.


Okiegal Says:

Oops moderation……have been wondering if that would happen…..


Khb Says:

Obama & Hillary preached about great USA.
Clueless, divisive Obama bitched about skin color when his father was absent from his life.
These 2 could live 3 life times off the money donated to them for campaigns. Of course, they smile at your face.
Many people who escaped Vietnam to live in the usa were treated like they were beneath human. It’s disturbing & ironic that the school kids were taught to ridicule the immigrant classmates when their family members & ancestors had killed innocent lives in foreign countries as well as the US. It’s doubly hard when the immigrant kids unluckily had abusive, psychotic relatives, and faced nasty strangers. The usa concentrates on rewarding politicians & Hollywood brats with money & non-public people are expected to feel guilty if they don’t work all day & aren’t making many millions of dollars.
Trump shouldn’t get paid & he wouldn’t take the money.
Greedy Obama & other awful presidents can golf and go away.


J-Kath Says:

Okie:

You still have a friend here in Bonnie Scotland. I’m also confident that everyone else who was/is your friend remains your friend no matter if they disagree with you.

The majority of posters here appear to be for Trump. If not, at least there is the opportunity to disagree – unlike at least one other social network, e.g. “Grandstand” which reads like a coven – expressing real venom. There is even a call for other countries e.g. UK to take to the streets and protest. This made me think the unthinkable: Trump may need a bullet-proof vest.


Wog Boy Says:

“Trump may need a bullet-proof vest.”

Actually JK, I was thinking the same, seriously so!


Okiegal Says:

@J-Kath…..thanks so much! Means a lot to me. We just have to agree to disagree. My worries were with you, dear Margot, the lovely Willow and the forever bouncing about Mira! I will get the message really quick if my TX acquaintances have left me….probably by not getting any messages! That will be my first clue……the proof is in the pudding…..the Yorkshire pudding!! Lol

To those on the forum who share my same feelings…..a big THANKS…..appreciate your input. I can also look at the others input with an open mind…….but as to abortion my mind is closed…….


Okiegal Says:

@WB and JK……the bullet proof vest has crossed my mind. As to gun control, the Obamas and the Clinton’s were surrounded by arms. If the White House was in jeopardy there would be guns a blazing…….just saying.


Okiegal Says:

@theDA

If you wanna get down to brass tacks……we had two immoral candidates running for president……my conscience is clear……if he screws up as president of the USA he won’t be the first one. I have had to eat humble pie before……….lol!! I have voted in every presidential election since I was old enough to vote. My guy didn’t win many times but I didn’t get out and start rioting in the streets…absurd……


lakie Says:

The trouble with self righteous people is that their conscience is always clear!


Danica Says:

Okie,
Isn’t it ironic though? If H had won and DT supporters wanted to challenge and change the electoral college, there would be all kinds of ugly language and insults. There would be this rhethoric how we should all accept the democratically chosen president. I despise hipocrisy and double standards.
Look what’s going on on the streets – organised riots and destruction of property. By the same ones who claim not to be violent. And much more in the background…


Okiegal Says:

@Danica ……That is exactly what would have happened had Hillary won. What did rioting ever prove? I will lay my head on my pillow tonight and yes I will have a clear conscience. I really don’t care who thinks I’m a self righteous person. I will be an advocate forthe unborn child……if that makes me self righteous, so be it!

Danica, it is being said that people are getting paid to participate in those organized riots. It is rumored George Soros is the driving force behind this movement and it’s being funded by him. True or not, don’t know but he helped Hillary financially with her campaign……


Danica Says:

Oh yes. And the Saudis so well known for their human rights spirit.
I’ve read about people being paid to protest and if true, it wouldn’t surprise me. I’ve seen it many a time in old country for sure.

J-Kath,
I love the diversity of opinion here. It just so happens that Tenngrand has posters who share the same view. I respect their choice and their obvious disappointment. If I am called misogynist for not approving of abortion or ignorant because someone thinks they know better, so be it. I certanly don’t feel and think anything less of people that disagree with me. But I do think that I have certain experiences as well as hours upon hours of reading and research that shaped my view of the world. That is also why I will never vote. I did it once in Serbia and once in the States in 2000, and that’s it from me.

Have a good morning or afternoon y’all around the globe, or a good night you on this side of the map ;)


Margot Says:

@Okgiel
I am probably as far away from you on the political spectrum as it’s possible to be but that certainly wont stop me “chatting” to you, or Danica for that matter
I hate internet bullies, trolls, grudge bearers and posters who play the ball not the person. And you dear OK and Danica do none of that.
In fact yours and Danica’s are usually among comments I enjoy
the most on here.
Heck, one of my best friends here voted BREXIT and I still talk to him……just ;)


lakie Says:

Thanks for educating me. I did not know that Hillary is the ONLY Democrat who supports abortion and that the other Democrats who had stood for election to the Office of the President were all against abortion.
Support for women’s right to choose means Hillary is personally orchestrating all the horrific abortions in the US, wow she is a demon.
Opposition to gun control doesn’t mean Trump is personally orchestrating all the horrific deaths which took place of kids in kindergarten, school, college, or people in post offices, clubs etc.
Gun control means everyone has to disarm including the security detail around Clintons and Obamas otherwise they are hypocrites!!! Also of course the armed forces must disarm, otherwise whoever advocates gun control is a hypocrite.
Thank you so much dear friends. I am sure you can sleep now with a clear conscience just as did your religious forebears who dealt with Galileo, Socrates etc!


Okiegal Says:

@Margot…..So glad you finally addressed me. I guess it would be a dull world if we all agreed on everything all of the time. We are far apart but we are mature enough to respect each other’s opinion. I started to bring up Brexit and the views on that subject. I believe you and J-Kath were far apart on that issue. I don’t know enough about that to even choose a side. But I googled the UK Brexit guy and it seems he and Donald agree on that. Anyway I enjoy your posts too……never skip them like I do some of the others. You and I will trudge on agreeing and disagreeing but never losing sight that we are two mature, resilient and passionate individuals……taking a stand on what we believe! Cheers Margot and have a great week!


Danica Says:

Margot,
We probably agree politically more than disagree ;)

Lakie,
“We came, we conquered, he is dead, hahaha!” Sorry, not my president. Warmongers are more on line with those who dealt with Bruno, Galileo or Socrates.


lakie Says:

Sorry Danica you apparently missed the point Many women in the US voted against the women’s right to vote in the early part of the century. The antis are alive and well. More power to their regressive anti female values. Did you know the person who voted against Hillary because of abortion, claims to have voted Democrat in earlier elections ? Shades of the antis of the past! What is sauce for the goose is not sauce for the gander?


Okiegal Says:

@lakie ……I did not say she was the only democrat who supported abortion. The democratic party as a whole support abortion. You are right about one thing……she is a demon! Thanks for pointing that out! When she and Bill left the Whitehouse they were stealing things. What American citizen holding the highest office of our nation does that?? There are a list of other reasons that I won’t get in to, but she isn’t a nice person. On gun control, the criminals will always have guns, bombs, knives etc. Taking away our second amendment right won’t change a thing……..but the little precious unborn baby is my MAIN CONCERN! If that makes me a bad person, so be it!


Ronn Says:

Well, Margot, the “Basket of Deplorables” fought back and they won. As for those 2 to 3 million, I hope it’s more like 10 to 20 million tbh. They DO have homes back across the southern border, you know, because that’s where most of them remit a good chunk of the money they make while working illegally in the US. Laws, laws, laws…what a waste of time, eh, Margot? Who needs laws anyway, huh? Let’s just do what the heck we wanna do and to hell with those bothersome laws. And if anybody says anything about it then to hell with them too. Right, Margot?


chrisford1 Says:

I believe having firearms is a right, unless significant problems problems exist with the gunbearer that contravene that right. Like being underaged, have a felony conviction, mental health issues so bad guns are a bad idea, and maybe reckless use of a firearm inc threatening by pointing at a person when no defense situation exists.
The democrats fail badly on this because they falsely believe that draconian restrictions and penalties will cut down on urban mayhem, they propose regs that come from total ignorance – ban scary looking black guns, flash suppressors, etc. Democrats resist locking up thugs caught with guns for a decade or more. And are entirely too cavalier that they can ignore sections of the Bill of Rights, but libertarians and Republicans that want to end Miranda rights for terrorists or create a line item budget veto power to shrink government – are “shredding the Constitution”. Democrats never learn – gun control advocacy in a Presidential campaign hurt the hell out of Hillary Clinton. Like it did Dukakis, Kerry, Gore, and cost Bill Clinton both houses of Congress when he reversed himself on gun banning after being elected. Obama’s people were smart enough to position Obama where he denounced stuff like gun show loopholes – but did not drectly threaten gun owners in key swing States like Hillary and other candidates did.

As a longtime gun owner, someone with marksmanship medals from military service, the one thing I wish everyone had to do to obtain a firearm is pass a very tough course. Where they are vetted they can use a weapon, and understand all the safety rules and understand the tremendous responsibility and potential vast legal liability that attaches to threat of use, or actual use – of lethal force. Hunters and concealed carry need an extra course for understanding yet more rules and regs. And just as friends don’t let friends drive drunk, sometimes you find people that have personality, judgment problems, a degree of self-destructive depression, and/or temper challenges that make gun possession ill-advised. And you have to have the courage to confront them and ask them to get other people’s view on them having weapons handy.


Okiegal Says:

@lakie…..Yes I did vote democrat for a long time and one time I didn’t cast a vote for president because I didn’t like either one. The abortion issue was hammered on heavily in this last election and I guess I wised up……won’t support any party anymore that is for abortion……it makes me sick to my stomach……the way they do this is inhumane…..and people who think it’s fine and dandy, well they make me even sicker! I am not gonna change your mind nor will you change mine! We are at an impasse, my dear………..

@chris Agree with the last paragraph of your last post. I worked in the court clerk’s office, county government level. I have done many record checks on individuals who were buying new guns. If they have a felony or a protective order we could report that by law. But we could not report a mental health case should the person have one. Those records are concealed like adoption, juvenile and guardianship cases are. So if you have a mentally unbalanced person wanting to buy a gun, there is no way to keep him or her from it. This is the law in Oklahoma not sure about other states


Wog Boy Says:

Guns are not killing, but people are killing. Australia has strict guns laws, it is almost impossible to obtain gun, and even then you can’t keep it home but in the shooting club, but yet every day the people are killing each other with a guns Sydney, Melbourne…and Australia has only 23 million people. Where from do they get those guns? Australia doesn’t have common boundaries with any countries, like in the Europe where it is easy to smuggle even tank, but you can buy the gun if you know the right people and if you have the money, people who want to have a gun will find a way to get one, no problem whatsoever. You ban the guns in America and I can see new trade going across south border, not just drugs, but guns too. Haven’t you, Americans, learned the lesson from the prohibition period? You can’t just ban the things, rather educate the people.


Margot Says:

Oh dear, Ronn, do stop ranting now. If you look at my first post on this topic I said it was a shame that Bernie Sanders wasn’t in the race.
There now, you stop laying all that Hilary hate on my doorstep.
Meanwhile, now here’s an interesting appointment:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/14/steve-bannon-white-house-racism-fear


Okiegal Says:

@WB u r spot on about the gun issue too. I made the same comment about prohibition! It didn’t work for whiskey nor will it work for guns. Moonshine is still being made to this day and not being taxed.There are just some things that can’t be controlled because of the criminals that are running rampant! Can’t you see the mafia not having guns or the gang bangers?? It ain’t gonna happen. Thanks for the info on the gun laws in Australia. You say they’re very strict, but yet people are still being killed.


Miles Says:

I’ve always thought that Djokovic got quite lucky (as good as he undoubtedly has been) over the past 3 years in particular, in that the player who would’ve been his main rival, DelPotro, was sidetracked by injuries. Murray, too, lost 18 months of peak play owing to his back injury, his operation and recuperation. Nadal’s form fell off a cliff 3 years ago. That left Djokovic’s main rival to be Federer – almost 6 years older and well past his peak. Even then, on fast surfaces, Federer was beating him until the age of 34!


sinha71 Says:

Not really an advantage with Fed as Fed had same aeg advantage at his peak when Djoko was still young.

Injuries are not all luck. Djokovic an Federer playing style and physique has contributed to their long health.

Nadal and Del Potro are to some degree victims of their technique as opposed to bad luck with few exceptions.


lakie Says:

Injuries are not all due to playing style. Rafa has a foot deformity which almost ended his career. He uses special shoes which in turn cause knee, hip and back injuries. Andy has a split right knee cap. Both players live and play with constant pain. For Andy, clay is a real challenge because of his split knee. Otherwise Djokovic would not have won FO this year.

Djokovic did indeed get incredibly lucky with all his chief rivals simultaneously down with injuries or age. We saw what happened when one of them, Andy, came into form. Djokovic lost the # 1 ranking.

I have a feeling Milos or Del Potro may win a slam next year. I very much doubt that Nole will have Rafa’s 2013. Andy may win AO. About Rafa, I think it unlikely that he will win slams again but neither Fed nor Rafa can ever be written off because of their talent and mental strength. So maybe Rafa will win FO 2017. Now that Nole has the FO monkey off his back, he is a strong contender for FO. Milos or Andy or Del Potro or a nextgen for Wimbly. USO wide open. If Fed does win his 18th, his best chances are at Wimbly and USO.


Van Persie Says:

Reading the above, I just can conclude , that there is no Golden Era. Roger had an easy path from 2003 til 2007 that his best contenrs were guys with deformities and one who could not really play in the heat until 2011, when he found out, he was gluten sensitive.


Van Persie Says:

contenders, not contenrs.


Van Persie Says:

We can also say, that Andy became Nr. 1 when Djoko was got out of form, but it really doesn’t matter.


lakie Says:

Losing form is normal. No one can be in form forever. But chief rivals undergoing surgery/injured/out of form/ past prime at the same time was lucky for Nole. Fed’s 2003-2007 cannot be compared with Nole dominating a weak era. Fed was new and introduced a new level of talent and dedication. So he dominated. But Nole has been around for ages so his domination was because his rivals were injured/old, not because he introduced a new level in tennis.


skeezer Says:

There never has been a weak era, unless you all want to talk about the current one.


skeezer Says:

“I’ve always thought that Djokovic got quite lucky…”
He was also quite lucky Fed got old.


Willow Says:

Fed got old, and Nadal and Delpo were always injured, and it took Murray 3 years after winning


Willow Says:

Sorry hit the submit post by accident, it took Murray 3 years after winning W in 2013, and back surgery before getting back to his very best, in that time Novak made hay, i think we can all use weak era arguments to suit our own personal bias for or against our own personal favorites ….


sinha71 Says:

Van Persie, remember that Fed could only play who was on the other side of the net but yes you have a point.

As Djoko is lucky today, Fed was quite lucky before 2011 when being older was to his advantage.

So we have to be fair with balance in our comments!

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