Henin Back at 2010 Australia!; Tennis-X Notes

May as well, with millions of dollars basically up for grabs at the moment in the womens game hell I’m thinking about giving it a try.

September 22nd, 2009 at 3:37 pm

Is that Hewitt story true? Wow if it is. I hope he gets to play that little pipsqueek someday before he gets too old.

September 22nd, 2009 at 3:41 pm

Thank you for that last comment about the timing of the foot fault call. I couldn’t believe how many commentators said that the call shouldn’t be made at such a critical point in the match. Just dumb!

As for Tomic, he should have a little humility. He could learn a lot from Hewitt, who may no longer be at the top of his game, but certainly knew how to win grand slams and be ranked #1, and still knows how to win a 5-setter.

September 22nd, 2009 at 5:20 pm

The comment about the timing of the foot fault not mattering on whether it should be called is one of the most wrong-headed things I’ve ever read from the staff, and I really like the “staff.”

What do you mean no other sport has that kind of situational application? Did you actually write that? In basketball, referees swallow their whistles at the end of games all the time because they don’t want to determine the outcome. In football, refs who make questionable interference calls at the end of games get ripped for determining the outcome of the game rather than letting the players decide it. In hockey the refs rarely call a penalty in overtime because they don’t want to determine the outcome. In soccer, they rarely award penalty shots at the end of tie games because they don’t want to determine the outcome.

Serena’s behavior was awful, but the foot-fault call was absurd. Anyone who thinks that call was appropriate is letting their dislike of Serena cloud his or her judgment. I’ve watched a ton of tennis and never, ever have I seen a foot fault called on a second serve in the deciding game of a match.

If this had been the first point of the match, it would have been a marginal call. No replay showed whether Serena’s foot touched the line, and if her foot did touch the line, it was by a centimeter at most. If the same call had gone against Clijsters, some of the same writers saying the call had to be made would be saying the U.S. Open organizers wanted Serena in the final and that the foot-fault judge should never be allowed to work another match.

September 23rd, 2009 at 12:16 am

Geez, and I hadn’t even read RZ’s post when I made mine.

You cannot be serious.

September 23rd, 2009 at 12:19 am

funches: “Serena’s behavior was awful, but the foot-fault call was absurd. Anyone who thinks that call was appropriate is letting their dislike of Serena cloud his or her judgment.”

And is a racist too, isn’t it? LOL :-) What absurd? Yeah, it came at an unfortunate time for Serena, that’s true. But if it was a foot-fault, it was a foot-fault. Deal with it. Comparing tennis to the sports you mentioned doesn’t make sense either. Tennis isn’t a contact sport where you can take a dive or fake a foul. If that lineswoman saw a foot-fault, even if by a centimeter, it was a CLEAR evidence of a player breaking the rules.

But then again, not that any of that matters now. What does matter is that another xy of Nike shoes, T-shirts or Wilson racquets will be sold thanks to that Serena’s outburst, the media all around the world will have something to write about, and all what Serena will have to do is to pay some negligible fine – and that’s it. Everyone will be happy, as the wolf will be sate & the goat will remain in one piece too…

September 23rd, 2009 at 4:01 am

“They were his words: ‘Lleyton’s not good enough’, and we just about dropped on the spot. We were pretty dumbfounded. Lleyton just could not believe it, and the more he thought about it the angrier he got about it.”…”

HAHA. I am really starting to like this guy now. This is gold. Anyone who can show up Lleyton deserves props in my book.

“FED GETS NASTY – Roger Federer speaking to the chair umpire during the US Open final: “Don’t tell me to be quiet, OK? When I want to talk I’ll talk. I don’t give a (bleep) what he said…Don’t (bleeping) tell me the rules.””

Many people are not aware of this, but he got fined for what he said just like Serena did. There are no double standards here, so lay off him Serena supporters.

Funches says:

“Serena’s behavior was awful, but the foot-fault call was absurd. Anyone who thinks that call was appropriate is letting their dislike of Serena cloud his or her judgment. I’ve watched a ton of tennis and never, ever have I seen a foot fault called on a second serve in the deciding game of a match.”

I’m with Staff here. As far as I care, the linesman shouldn’t even be keeping score. Being within a point from the match does not excuse a person foot faults. If the line judge shouldn’t call what she saw (or believed she saw) because it would have brought up match point, should the line judge on the other side of the court also ignore a double fault if the ball lands outside of the service box?

“never, ever have I seen a foot fault called on a second serve in the deciding game of a match. ”

That’s because footfaults are rare among competent players, especially at the end of a match.

“If this had been the first point of the match, it would have been a marginal call. No replay showed whether Serena’s foot touched the line”

The fact is, no replay gave you an angle of the baseline where you could actually judge this for yourself. You only saw the view from behind Serena, not in front of her or from a side view, which is a bit asinine for US Open standards. You can’t make this call based on the replay they gave you. This is the US Open’s fault for not having a baseline camera. That was the best footage they had.

“and if her foot did touch the line, it was by a centimeter at most.”

Doesn’t matter. If it touched by a cm or mm it’s still a footfault, just as a ball that catches 1 mm of the line as judged by Hawkeye is a good ball, and a ball that misses it by 1 mm is OUT.

“If the same call had gone against Clijsters, some of the same writers saying the call had to be made would be saying the U.S. Open organizers wanted Serena in the final and that the foot-fault judge should never be allowed to work another match.”

That is possible, but it’s conjecture. I think most Americans would not be criticising the line judge if the call went against Kim, because most Americans would want an American to win (except Cindy Brady perhaps). That’s just how it is. It’s the same in Australia when an australian is playing or in France when a Frenchman is playing. People are biased and have nationalistic pride. Belgian fans on the other hand would be as outraged as you claim they’d be.

September 23rd, 2009 at 4:33 am

The Tomic story continues (from SMH):

When Juan Carlos’ Ferrero’s coach was told of Hewitt’s treatment, he said any young player acting like that in Spain would be ‘strung up from a tree by his balls’.

Tomic’s agent says any suggestion a colleague of his denigrated Hewitt is “laughable” and explained the reason for the snub.
“From what I understand the kid he was playing the next day had a different style to Lleyton and Team Tomic felt that by playing Lleyton, it wasn’t beneficial for the next day’s match.”

————

If I was Ferrero, I think I would have had a hit with Tomic. If Hewitt is asking for a hit, then he is the one asking for a favour. Tomic is not obliged to grant it, so while he was rude, he didn’t actually do anything wrong. Ferrero has no place judging the kid for turning down a hit.

September 23rd, 2009 at 4:39 am

I didn’t give a complete quote up above (I left out the first paragraph so context was missing):

To make matters worse for Hewitt, Tomic had apparently asked to practise with The Mosquito instead, only to be rebuffed.

When Juan Carlos’ Ferrero’s coach was told of Hewitt’s treatment, he said any young player acting like that in Spain would be ‘strung up from a tree by his balls’.

Tomic’s agent says any suggestion a colleague of his denigrated Hewitt is “laughable” and explained the reason for the snub.
“From what I understand the kid he was playing the next day had a different style to Lleyton and Team Tomic felt that by playing Lleyton, it wasn’t beneficial for the next day’s match.”

September 23rd, 2009 at 4:41 am

Giner Says:

Doesn’t matter. If it touched by a cm or mm it’s still a footfault, just as a ball that catches 1 mm of the line as judged by Hawkeye is a good ball, and a ball that misses it by 1 mm is OUT.

Yes but the problem here is that unlike shotspot – calling a foot fault involves a human making a JUDGEMENT call. The baseline person is sitting something like 30 feet away – and I believe its not enough for the shoe to actually brake the invisible plane of the baseline – it actually has to be touching the court surface in order to be deemed a foot fault. That linesperson better be pretty damn sure they saw what they think they saw to make that kind of call at that juncture in the match. If the shoe was only a mm or even cm over the baseline I doubt the linesperson could say if the rubber of the sole was actually touching the court surface. Its the one scenario where the linesperson’s call is completely independent of oversight from the Umpire or anyone else. Its the one occasion where the linesperson has as much authority on a particular call as the umpire does. I think its pretty common for Umpires to refrain from overruling calls at critical junctures in the match. The problem is linespeople are trained to simply do what they do knowing that the Umpire has final authority and will ultimately correct their mistakes if need be. They aren’t trained to be cognizant of the importance of calls at a particular juncture in a match. Williams had the opportunity to show Federeresque class but instead she resorted to throwing a temper tantrum.

September 23rd, 2009 at 10:51 am

Funches,
I am serious. The linesperson’s job is to call a foot fault whenever it happens regardless of the score. It would be a flagrant violation of ethics if she purposefully didn’t call it. And as much as people argue that it’s unfair to call it on Serena at that point in the match, it would have been equally unfair to Clijsters *not* to call the foot fault.

September 23rd, 2009 at 4:21 pm

Vulcan:

“Yes but the problem here is that unlike shotspot – calling a foot fault involves a human making a JUDGEMENT call. The baseline person is sitting something like 30 feet away – and I believe its not enough for the shoe to actually brake the invisible plane of the baseline – it actually has to be touching the court surface in order to be deemed a foot fault.”

You can say the same thing about calling the service line when Andy Roddick is on the other end hitting 150 mph bombs. Can you be certain it didn’t hit 1 mm of the line? Only difference here is that you’ve got hawkeye backing you up whereas with footfaults you don’t. Up until 2006’ish, this technology wasn’t available, and the difficulty linesmen faced then was no different to the foot fault judge now. Blink and you’ve missed it, and you’ll get heat for it. How long can you stare at a line on a hot day without blinking? They do an amazing job as it is, as imperfect as they may be.

For me, the call stands until proven incorrect. She may have got it wrong, she may not have. If she saw it, she saw it. There’s no way we can tell.

We just have to trust that they are doing their job.

“Williams had the opportunity to show Federeresque class but instead she resorted to throwing a temper tantrum.”

That’s ironic because he got into a tantrum a couple of days later in the men’s final. It was nowhere near as dramatic but he used the ‘s’ word and actually got fined for it no less than Serena, though it didn’t get much press because he didn’t threaten anyone’s life.

September 23rd, 2009 at 11:11 pm

RZ: “And as much as people argue that it’s unfair to call it on Serena at that point in the match, it would have been equally unfair to Clijsters *not* to call the foot fault.”

Amen to that!

September 24th, 2009 at 6:11 am

I am glad that after Clijsters, Henin is coming back. We all want to watch some beautiful tennis and Henin has got all the strokes. Nowadays there are very few women players who have complete games like Henin. It is disappointing to see top ranked players such as Safina or Sharapova figuring how to serve during a grand slam match or competitive players such as Serena Williams just hitting winners with sheer might and no grace at all.

September 24th, 2009 at 8:19 am

What Federer did was unsportsmanlike and he got fined rightfully and there’s not much else to it. Serena made a HUGE scene and threatened someone’s life. Think about how Roddick sometimes goes after the umpire by belittling him and telling him he shouldn’t have dropped out in second grade. Hilarious right? What if he said “I’ll kill you because you dropped out of second grade,” that changes things.

Outbursts happen but I kinda feel that if Serena had not reacted and kept her composure, and then lost the match point normally, the foot fault would’ve been talked about as her demise for a week or so and then people would just forget about it. Also, it did look she foot faulted from the angle they showed but maybe that’s just me (honestly, though, I’d make the worst line judge).

September 24th, 2009 at 8:54 am

As in many other sports, line judges and umpires could occasionally make mistakes because the calls are always very close. However, the bottom line is that they make a call according to their judgment. The foot fault in Serena Williams/Clijster match was so close that nobody could really tell if it was a right call or not, except the line judge herself who definitely should be given with the benefit of doubt. The last person who could tell if the call had been right or wrong was Serena herself, but yet she acted like the call had definitely been wrong. That was triggered by her emotion. But her refusal to apologize during the post-match interview was an expression of arrogance and lack of sportsmanship. I wish Serena had known how to respect those calls and appreciate the hard work done by these unknown volunteers.

September 24th, 2009 at 10:16 am

sensationalsafin Says:

Think about how Roddick sometimes goes after the umpire by belittling him and telling him he shouldn’t have dropped out in second grade. Hilarious right?

Hilarious…wrong…I personally find it disgusting. The big difference between the way I perceive Federer’s actions is that he was expressing himself in a SINCERE way, and I’m sure that later he regretted his behavior. I’m sorry but Roddick doesn’t come across as being sincere. He acted like a spoiled, arrogant brat who seemed to think the whole tirade was just a fun way of killing some time at the expense of the umpire. I seriously question his integrity in terms of whether he himself even believed that he was in the right over the whole thing at AO. The replay confirmed how wrong he was and that either he was an utter buffoon or a manipulative, spoiled brat.

September 24th, 2009 at 10:42 am

Giner Says:

For me, the call stands until proven incorrect. She may have got it wrong, she may not have. If she saw it, she saw it. There’s no way we can tell.

We just have to trust that they are doing their job.

I agree, I was mainly trying to point out the fact that it was in all likelihood not an easy, clear case of a foot fault…Williams’ service motion does not involve moving her left foot forward by taking a small step but rather involves pivoting on the ball of her foot…so it is very possible that the shoe could have broken the invisible plain of the baseline without actually touching the court.

“Williams had the opportunity to show Federeresque class but instead she resorted to throwing a temper tantrum.”

That’s ironic because he got into a tantrum a couple of days later in the men’s final. It was nowhere near as dramatic but he used the ’s’ word and actually got fined for it no less than Serena, though it didn’t get much press because he didn’t threaten anyone’s life.

I wouldn’t call it a tantrum…he used a couple of expletives but was calm and civil throughout the entire exchange. I have seen many ocassions where players uttered expletives and were not fined. The difference here is that Federer was talking directly to the Umpire, which in my opinion makes all the difference. It makes a big difference whether one is speaking to a Security Guard, Police Officer, or Judge. You might be able to speak an expletive to one of the former but if you do so to the latter you might find yourself sitting in a jail cell for contempt of court. Respect for the umpire should be a paramount thing in the world of tennis as they are the ones who are tasked with keeping order on the court.

September 24th, 2009 at 11:03 am

Linda, yours seems like a measured and fair post @10:16 am.

It must be difficult for players to contain their emotions when playing in a grand slam semifinal or final. I thought Fed’s swearing was unusual as he doesn’t show his testiness often – except towards Hawkeye, lol. Serena tends to be much more emotional than her sister, but imo she crossed two lines (besides, ostensibly, the foot fault line): the threat she made toward the lines-person and the first unapologetic apology.

—————————-
Vulcan, I find it difficult to judge a person’s sincerity sometimes, but it did seem to me that Roddick thought he was in the right there, and like Serena was in her match (e.g., code violation for racquet smashing), Roddick was already upset with earlier calls in the match, so that “out” call just incensed him further. I don’t think Andy should’ve belittled the umpire, but it seemed like there were honest or sincere emotions driving his comments. I don’t think he was “killing time” either; Roddick is known as a fast player. Finally, I also don’t think it’s okay to excuse Federer’s swearing and telling the umpire, “when I want to talk, I’ll talk” while critiquing Roddick’s outburst. In their own ways, both guys overstepped the boundary and both were driven by their emotions during that particular point in the match. With Serena it was different as she threatened the lineswoman. Roddick and Fed just expressed their anger – inappropriately perhaps – but no threats so not as out of line, imo.

Interestingly, in all cases mentioned above, the player who got angry lost the match…

September 24th, 2009 at 12:00 pm

Jane,

Please read what I wrote above again…I was not excusing Federer…on the contrary…I pointed out how serious a thing it is (or should be) to disrespect the Umpire by making a real world analogy. As far as comparing the two incidents though I think that there is no comparison between what Federer did and what Roddick did. The Umpire pretty much instigated the Federer incident by first telling Federer to “be quiet”. I think the Umpire was out of line for saying that. Now that doesn’t give Federer the right to be disrespectful, but lets keep things in perspective. Roddick unleashed an all out barrage of disrespect with absolutely no provocation. As far as judging his sincerity, that is a skill that we all have to develop which involves making a judgement call based on a person’s track record….and there are just to many things Roddick does on court that point in the wrong direction to me (ie whining about let cords as if he were somebody special and let cords shouldn’t apply to him)

September 24th, 2009 at 12:26 pm

Vulcan: “Roddick unleashed an all out barrage of disrespect with absolutely no provocation.”

First of all, how does Roddick come into this situation? No where is Roddick mentioned here, but as per usual you can’t let the opportunity pass whenever another player, especially your fave is involved to try to make a comparison by using Roddick and your famous YouTube exhibit. How do you know what motivated that outburst from Roddick? Are you a mind reader? And how many times have you not proffered that YouTube as evidence with respect to your comparisons in the past on this site? Let’s mark that as Exhibit No. 6, because that’s about how many times you’ve introduced it here and talked about that incident. I think you most probably have that one at your fingertips, or on speed dial. LOL. BTW, what expletives did Roddick shower on the umpir, I’d like to know.

Question: Do you have a background in law? You keep talking about contempt of court, do you know how that happens? And, pray tell me, how and when is a tennis court compared to a court of law? I won’t even bother to dignify the other stuff with respect to time wasting, because to me it’s like stuff pulled out of the air to make a statement and frther give leverage to your criticisms.

It’s alright if you try to dilute what Federer did, but please leave other players out of it, as they are not the topic on this thread. Maybe your hate for Roddick is clouding your judgment.

September 24th, 2009 at 1:06 pm

It’s not Roddick’s fault that the umpire dropped out of second grade. That’s just the way things are sometimes.

September 24th, 2009 at 1:08 pm

In that AO match, the umpire was an all out jerk and he deserved what he got, but I don’t understand why Roddick has to be brought into this topic because he didn’t use the ‘F’ word or any other expletive.

September 24th, 2009 at 1:11 pm

Von, I have to take the blame for bringing Roddick into this. Whenever someone talks about an outburst, I think back to Roddick’s outburst in that Kohls match. It was an outburst of epic proportions. If players were ranked by awesome outbursts, Roddick would be the undisputed number 1. It was just great. I think class is overrated in this sense because tennis, like any sport, is emotional and I like seeing the players’ emotions. Roddick is just really good at expressing his in an amusing way.

September 24th, 2009 at 1:14 pm

Vulcan, I respect your opinion. I may’ve misinterpreted your comments about Fed’s altercation with the umpire.

I agree that sincerity is a judgement call, and after years of watching Roddick play tennis and give pressers, he strikes me as a very straight-up and honest person. He lets his emotions get the best of him sometimes, and when he goes too far, he is penalized like anyone else. In that particular incident, as mentioned above, I think Roddick’s frustration with the calls and the umpire was building throughout the match, and that out call was the proverbial straw that broke the camel’s back. So I think there was provocation in so far as Roddick felt there’d been other unfair treatment.

Anyhow, that incident notwithstanding, he simply doesn’t strike me as spoiled or manipulative at all. If anything, he is a hard worker who exhibits immense respect for the game in his efforts to constantly improve and try to compete with the best. He always gives credit where it is due. Moreover, I really don’t mind the demonstrative players – Roddick, Mcenroe, Safin, Gonalez etc. – which may be down to personal proclivities, in which case, we’ll probably just disagree. Which is fine.

September 24th, 2009 at 1:16 pm

SS: You didn’t bring it into the discussion. Vulcan did so a few days ago, and as per usual he just couldn’t wait to launch it. I was thinking and laughing to myself that Vulcan has not posted here for several months and his first post featured Roddick and his famous YouTube exhibit. LOL. How can anyone hate a player like this is beyond my understanding. sheesh

I’m like you I love an emotional player because they add some spice on the court — electicity is my word for it, but to each his own isn’t it?

September 24th, 2009 at 1:19 pm

I don’t like Serena but I still think what she did was pretty funny to watch. But if you’re gonna determine how bad it is by comparison, then it’s awful considering she actually threatened to kill the poor tiny asian woman. If she hadn’t done that and been able to keep her composure and maybe even win, then that’d be super respectable. Either way, I like what I’m seeing (except I did want Clisjters to win). I don’t know why this is still a big deal anyway. I’m tired of writing about it.

September 24th, 2009 at 1:57 pm

Von – I really don’t want to get into any more arguments with you as you seem to have self-appointed yourself as some sort of a moderator or something on this site. I’m not sure why my Roddick video seems to get under your skin so much but I should be allowed to express my opinion about Roddick as often and emphatically as I like without having to check with you first. I respect that youre a hardcore Roddick fan but please note that I am not bringing up Roddick’s behavior for the sole purpose of offending you.
Here are some responses to your comments above to clarify things for you though:

Von Says:

No where is Roddick mentioned here

Scroll up and you will see that SS mentioned him “here” initially

Von Says:

what expletives did Roddick shower on the umpire

Non, nor did I suggest that he ever did…just because Federer used expletives does not however mean that he was more disrespectful.

Von Says:

You keep talking about contempt of court, do you know how that happens?

Here is an excerpt from the Wikipedia article:

A finding of contempt of court may result from a failure to obey a lawful order of a court, showing disrespect for the judge, disruption of the proceedings through poor behavior, or publication of material deemed likely to jeopardize a fair trial.

note the part about “showing disrespect for the judge”

September 24th, 2009 at 2:01 pm

Von Says:

And, pray tell me, how and when is a tennis court compared to a court of law?

OK, this one is really important.
In all areas of life respect for authority figures is important. From a very early age we are taught this. I bring up the example of a court room because it epitomizes this respect. A tennis court is different but only by degree.

September 24th, 2009 at 2:12 pm

Vulcan: I’m by no means a moderator nor do you have to check with me to write or show anything. However, how many times do you need to make the same point on that AO incident? You’ve introduced that YouTube video several times in the past, and you did so on another thread, I believe on Monday, when you referred to that incident, even though it was not mentioned by anyone else, and no one responded to it, and now you’ve mentioned it again. Therefore, all I’m saying that there’s no need to belabour the point, I think we all know about that incident and it does not nullify what Federer did. I personally don’t care what happens between the players and the umpire, and I stated such when the incident initially occurred during the USO final.

I have a background in law and I know what contempt of court means, and I can safely say without blinking an eye, that no way does a tennis line judge equal in comparison to a Judge in a court of law. Law Judges have years of education in their field, as compared to a line judge who probabaly attends a couple of hours of training, so the respect thing is a bit over-blown IMO, and the comparisons is again ridiculous. We’re talking a decison on a person’s life as compared to a tennis match. Further, a tennis match cannot be compared to a trial in a court of law whereby a player can disrupt the proceedings and cause a mistrial or jeopardize a fair trial. On a tennis court a match is being played by two athletes and no one is on trial. And, there are disruptions all of the time, as in when a fan is trying to move behind a player to get to his/her seat. Also, when the player stops to get balls, towels, etc., taking too long to serve between points, and time wasting, those are disruptions. However, those disruptions do not determine the fairness of the match as compared to a fair trial and/or jeopardize the outcome of same. In sum, the two are like North and South in comparisons. Anyway, it’s your prerogative to make the comparisons, but I do think that you are reaching and trying to lambaste Roddick more than is necessary in an effort to dilute Federer’s actions.

September 24th, 2009 at 2:25 pm

jane Says:

Vulcan, I respect your opinion.

Jane thanks. And yes we probably are diametrically opposed on the topic of Roddick’s character. For the record, I think Roddick has alot of good qualities. But he’s human like the rest of us.
What bothers me the most about the AO incident is not that it was just an example of Roddick’s bad traits, but that he was allowed to get away with it scot free….it just sets the wrong precedent in my opinion almost to the degree that it is indicative of a double standard on the tour when somebody like Federer gets fined for basically just defending himself.

September 24th, 2009 at 2:48 pm

Vulcan: “I’m not sure why my Roddick video seems to get under your skin so much but I should be allowed to express my opinion about Roddick as often and emphatically as I like without having to check with you first.”

If I were to do the same with respect to Federer, I can assure you ‘d have 20 of his fans chasing me around and yapping at my heels with the most derogatory name calling. Fortunately, there aren’t many Roddick fans here so the lambasting goes on.

FYI: Roddick does not get away with anything scot free, he’s fined. He tells them to take it out of his pay check. I suppose he has a running tab. LOL.

September 24th, 2009 at 2:53 pm

Von Says:

Roddick does not get away with anything scot free, he’s fined

Your a very articulate writer from what I can tell. You did however convolute quite a bit of what I said above…the comparison was between Umpires and Judges not linespeople and Judges. And Roddick was never fined for the AO open incident to my knowledge (if he was believe me I would not be harping on this incident nearly as much as I do).

September 24th, 2009 at 3:09 pm

Vulcan: “Your a very articulate writer from what I can tell.” Gee, thanks, all compliments are never turned away. I’lll be your friend for life now. LOL. Seriously though, I think the reason, if it’s true that Roddick was not fined, could be that he didn’t use any expletives during his outburst. The use of expletives is the basis for being fined as in Serena’s and Fed’s case.

I’ll concede to a small degree that an Umpire is the presiding official on a tennis court and acting in a similar capacity as a Judge in a court room, but not quite. One is an informal proceeding while the other is formal and a lot more is at stake. Anyway, I rest my case.

September 24th, 2009 at 3:19 pm

Vulcan: Sorry for the convulution. I was writing in a hurry and got the Serena lines judge case mixed up with the umpire in Federer’s altercation. Talk about a comedy of errors. LOL.

September 24th, 2009 at 3:32 pm

I’m glad that Henin will be back in 2010. Is there a sweeter shot in the entire sport than her killer one handed backhand? Maybe Fed’s forehand, but that’s the only comparable I can come up with.

As for Serena, her disgusting behaviour doesn’t deserve one ounce of attention.

September 24th, 2009 at 7:51 pm

…other than expulsion from the 2010 AO.

September 24th, 2009 at 7:57 pm

I can’t believe people are actually excited to see this cheater back on the court? It’s mind boggling. People forget that she quit weeks before the French Open where she was defending champ and heavily favored to win … none of it made any “sense” at the time … but now it does.

Let’s not forget that Henin was a known cheater and decidedly bad sport on the court – that is just a fact.
I mean is this the type of behavior we have to look forward to?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bb8w5_i6wms

September 24th, 2009 at 10:38 pm

Well Federer has pulled out of Tokyo and Shanghai, another opportunity to see a Federer v Nadal hardcourt encounter falls by the wayside.

September 25th, 2009 at 9:44 am

in a lighter note i see fed’s decision to pull out of these 2 events as handing the torch to dePo:) or at least letting the 4 kids fight out and decide among themselves who belongs where at the end of the year.
seriously fed did the math and concluded that all he needs is the London win to finish the year as number 1. he’s going for the bigger prize.

my interest in seeing fed-nadal final has slightly tapered off, except maybe at the grand slams. so i’ll be missing nothing.

September 25th, 2009 at 10:03 am

Hmm handing the torch? let us not forget what it takes to be #1 or #2…it’s not about about how your game matches up with a couple of the best players its about how your game matches up with everybody’s and perhaps more importantly how tough you are mentally. Del Potro had a great run at the US Open but one slam is not enough to anoint him a champion (think T. Johansson winning AO)

September 25th, 2009 at 10:33 am

Did Fed say why he pulled out of those events?

September 25th, 2009 at 10:39 am

http://sports.yahoo.com/ten/news;_ylt=AqkqSx7ssNUetCKp3RQ2oyY4v7YF?slug=ap-japanopen-federer&prov=ap&type=lgns

No particular reason, apparently just worn out from a long season…Tokyo I understand but it seems a little early to withdraw from Shanghai

September 25th, 2009 at 10:42 am

j,
“After consultation with my team and doctors, I decided to take the difficult decision to withdraw from both tournaments,” Federer said in a statement. “This will allow me a chance to give my body a chance to rest, rehabilitate and recover from a physically challenging year.”

http://sports.yahoo.com/ten/news;_ylt=AiKa9hs7f3r7juwn0_3shrg4v7YF?slug=ap-japanopen-federer&prov=ap&type=lgns

September 25th, 2009 at 10:43 am

WOW! Really Vulcan? You’re comparing JMDP to Johansson? Wow! Most shocking thing I’ve read on this site all year.

Federer is basically citing fatigue. He said he talked to his team and doctors and concluded that he should rest his body. He is 28 after all and has played a lot of tennis in the last few months. I don’t think he wants to be getting treated for his back in his final match of the year AGAIN. I’m disappointed as a fan but whatever extends his career is fine by me.

I don’t think he needs to win London to keep number 1. He doesn’t have a lot of points from last year’s YEC so he’s not defending much. It would help widen the gap if he can atleast make the semis this time.

September 25th, 2009 at 10:46 am

sensationalsafin Says:

You’re comparing JMDP to Johansson?

In the sense that he could be a one slam wonder yes I am.

September 25th, 2009 at 10:52 am

There are degrees of One-Slam-Wonders. You have your Johanssons and Gaudios, then you have your Roddicks and Ivanisevics. 2 totally different categories. Even if JMDP ends up a one slammer, you gotta think he’d be more like Roddick than like Johansson. It’s just insulting to JMDP. It’s not like he didn’t beat 2 of the greatest players of all time on his way to the win. Who did Johansson beat? A nervous selfdestructing retarded Safin? Big friggin deal.

September 25th, 2009 at 10:56 am

Yep I agree with all of that. The main thing with anybody who wins their first slam is that they are immediately thrust into a situation where everybody is gunning for them. Its a steep learning curve from that point on and maybe that’s the point at which it becomes evident whether they are a true champion or not.

September 25th, 2009 at 11:01 am

I think Del Potro will prove to be more than just a one slam wonder. But considering his age, it’s not like he doesn’t have time to deal with that learning curve. Sampras was 19 when he won his first slam and it took him 3 years to deal with expectations and he did so pretty well. Safin was 20 when he won his first and it took him 5 years to win his second and last. Either way, Del Potro has plenty of time to shed the “one slam wonder” label and considering how much room for improvement he has, I think he’ll be winning his third slam in 2011.

September 25th, 2009 at 11:15 am

Well he’s already doing one thing that is necessary to be a champion and that is he actually has the audacity to say that he is eying the number one ranking. As humble and soft-spoken as he is he does seem to have the desire and belief to do it. But whether he has the day-in day-out mental toughness is a whole other story. The other thing is how well will his game stand up once people really start to dissect it and figure out what to do against him.
With that said I don’t recall the commentators in the Nadal and Federer matches mentioning ANYTHING that they could have done differently. DP simply played lights out tennis that would’ve beaten anybody…he was in the zone for most of those matches.

September 25th, 2009 at 11:23 am

Along the lines of DP’s playing style and the level of tennis he was playing I would submit that his game would be much more likely to have “off” days than a Nadal or Federer. Even with the added margin due to his height the trajectory of his shots leaves little margin for error. Like alot of players that hit flat and deep they are spectacular when they are on but when they’re off it can make for a quick loss. Agassi was one of the most consistent of this type of ball striker.

September 25th, 2009 at 11:32 am

Well Nadal could’ve tried to play his shots deeper and I think mixing up his serve more woulda helped, too. Some body serves would’ve made it difficult for DelPo.

As for Federer, well besides just serving better, tennis.com made a good point that Federer deployed a losing strategy. Instead of playing the angles and trying to outplay DelPo at his own game, Federer should’ve played down the middle more and taken away the angles. I also think Federer coulda sliced more, I don’t understand why he kept hitting his backhand with top spin against DelPo’s ground game.

That said, DelPo has a decent B game in his defensive skills but an almost nonexistant C game. That’s why I think he has plenty more slams in him considering how much he needs to improve. And I’m sure he wants to win Wimbledon. Everyone wants to win Wimbledon. And that means he’s gonna have to improve his footwork a lot. The kid has a lot of potential.

September 25th, 2009 at 11:33 am

yeah, “handing the torch” is bookended with “lighter note” and :).

that’s what they said when fed won his first sw19 in 2003 by beating only one top ten player on his route. see what fed has achieved !

it is more relevant to focus on the 1st major win when you compare a young rising star and history’s one of the best.

johansson did not have to play any top ten in his single AO title win in 2002.

dePo’s first major win ranks ahead of theirs. he beat 3 GS titlists and 2 of the history’s all time best on his route. he did not just have a great run. he gave rafa his worst defeat at a slam, and he beat fed miserably in the 5th set and won the title in the greatest style, probably the best in last 2 decades. to give credit where it is due, i’d defer records and future speculations for another occasion. and yes, one win was enough to anoint dePo the us open champion for this year:-). you cannot win 15 at the age of 20, can you?

dePo-johansson comparison is unfair.

as far as i can think, dePo is closer to Lew Hoad and Ellsworth Vines, two best flat-hitters of the entire tennis history. both young, tall and big shot makers. Vines won US Open the first time when he was only 19 but was limited to 3 slams. the same could be said about Hoad who won 4 slams and about whom poncho gonzalez said, “I think Hoad’s game was the best game ever. Better than mine. He was capable of making more shots than anybody.”
the only difference is dePo will be more consistent and will have a better record than Hoad and Vines’, granted he stays physically fit. at least i can hope.

September 25th, 2009 at 11:48 am

sensationalsafin: “He doesn’t have a lot of points from last year’s YEC so he’s not defending much. ”

For some reason I had thought Fed lost to Murray in the semis, but I guess that was the quarters?

vulcan: ” maybe that’s the point at which it becomes evident whether they are a true champion or not.”

“True champion”: what does that mean, exactly? I take issue with that moniker, in that ANY player who’s won a grand slam, regardless of whom they faced along the way, deserves accolades and imo is already a “true champion”. I also don’t like the “one slam wonder” label personally. It’s derogatory towards those players who are lumped into that box.

vulcan: “The other thing is how well will his game stand up once people really start to dissect it and figure out what to do against him.”

Well I’ve said this before: JMDP almost always goes cross court with his forehand, and I think backhand too. He doesn’t use the geometry of the court as much as he could, or as much as Murray and Djok do, imo. He makes up for that in power, though. But to me this could be something that player will eventually tap into and exploit. That said, JMDP has a lot going for him and he’s not going to be easy to beat going forward. He will continue to improve.

i am it -thanks for the update on Fed’s pull outs; I had assumed it was fatigue considering his comments after his Davis Cup matches (i.e., everything hurts; I need a holiday).

September 25th, 2009 at 12:10 pm

jane Says:

“True champion”: what does that mean, exactly? I take issue with that moniker…It’s derogatory…

Jane I definitely don’t want to denigrate DP’s accomplishment. But the whole reason there is a Hall of Fame in Newport is to pay homage to those that have that special something…the ability to hit aces on breakpoint (or matchpoint as Federer did against Roddick at Wimby 04)…the ability to figure out a way to win when others would just give up…the tenacity to keep fighting even when losing is certain…the class to overcome adversity when others would have a meltdown…its how a player reacts under the rarest of occasions…say match point down of a slam final. There’s no way to know how DP will respond when confronted with those situations because so far hes only been in one slam final.

September 25th, 2009 at 1:16 pm

j,
fed has only 2 round robins to defend at London.

if rafa wins Beijing, shanghai, london, and equals his own or fed’s paris points, which is quarter final, and if fed wins basel, keeps paris points, and reaches london semi, rafa will become no. 1.

there are too many ifs. possible but not probable.
————-
that hall of fame determining the champion is a joke. i can give you more than a dozen examples who have accomplished nothing on court but are hall of famers. take bud collins. what did he achieve on court? nada.

a few pos players like Donald Dell are famers.

and a lot of one-time slamers have been inducted as hall of famers, from herbert lawford (1887) through michael chang (1989).

September 25th, 2009 at 2:10 pm

Vulcan, apologies; the word “true” before anything makes me bristle since it’s so subjective. I tend to hate “glittering generalities” like “true champion” or a politician who says “I will restore hope and freedom to our city!!” — yes, but will you make sure there are enough garbage cans on the East side? : )

i am it, your points about the Hall of Fame kind of prove my point. There are all myriad of factors as to who decided who gets in there and so forth, and some of those “factors” involve “vested interests”.

Don’t get me wrong: I am not a full on relativist; I believe in some truths, and certainly there are qualities that make player “A” a more successful champion than players “B” or “C”. But in my opinion, a player who has won a slam is already a champion. That was my point. In fact, players who’ve won any titles are champions of a sort. But since slams seem to be the ultimate measurement, then surely winning one warrants the title “champion”.

Besides which, is there such thing as a “false champion”??

LOL.

September 25th, 2009 at 5:17 pm

let me add this to the hall of fame being the criterion for champion.
yes, there are 2 groups: contributors and players.
but look at the player inductees like Karl Behr. there are a few far worse than Behr.

http://www.tennisfame.com/famer.aspx?pgID=867&hof_id=52

http://www.tennisfame.com/famer.aspx?pgID=867

September 25th, 2009 at 7:23 pm

blah: for you. Richard made it to the SF in Metz where he lost to Monfils. It seems as though Richard is finding some semblance of his old form. Perhaps he would have gotten to the finals had he not met up with a hot Monfils.

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/26092009/58/atp-metz-monfils-sets-kohlschreiber-final.html

September 26th, 2009 at 2:53 pm

Ivanovic got knocked out in the first round at Tokyo:

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/27092009/58/form-ivanovic-flops-tokyo.html

Monfils wins his second career title at Metz:

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/27092009/58/monfils-wins-second-tour-title.html

September 27th, 2009 at 7:31 pm

Was very happy to see Monfils win a final after four years of fruitless sweating. Allez! Hopefully this will give him the confidence to go deeper in other events…hold concentration while playing…pleeease! & win some more.

In other non-related matters, seeing that Federer has now withdrawn from the upcoming two events, it’s time for Soderling to fully capitalise, go deep, gain some ranking points & *finally!!* break into the top10. It’s been a long time coming. :) His confidence is sky high, the ‘enemy’ is out resting; according to him, he’s got the game to beat any other player except the mentioned nemesis…time to make big big gains. lol. Will be very happy were he to lift one of the two trophies.

It’s very tight between #7-#11. Will be interesting to see who makes it to the WT finals.

Re Ivanovic: No comment. ok, just a little…very sad for her.

September 28th, 2009 at 12:17 pm

I see that Söderling is actually playing this week in the Proton Malaysian Open….so depending on how he performs, he has an opportunity to break into the top10 as early as next week. (wohooo-with crossed fingers)

Won’t be easy though as I notice that Davydenko, Verdasco, Gonzalez & Monfils are also playing in the same event. The race for the top10 positions is truly on. Gonzo trying to break back in, the Sod & Monfils on a mission (though monfils is far out), while Davy & Verdasco battling for a top8 spot for the TMC. Poor Gilles Simon is sideline with injury, so can’t even try to defend his top10 position.

Seeing that Davy is trying so hard, I now doubt that Verdasco will make it to TMC…many more matches ahead though.

September 28th, 2009 at 12:46 pm

been there,

First, I like the abbreviated handle; it’s easier to type. :)

Second, congrats to Monfils; you must be happy to see one of your fave-Frenchies break through and take a title!

Finally thanks for the update on the “top ten” and “top eight” & c.; I hadn’t been paying it much attention but I guess ‘the race is on’ so to speak.

September 28th, 2009 at 12:50 pm

On the topic of top 10 I see that Paradorn Srichaphan is returning to the tour…great to see guys like him and Taylor Dent make comebacks. Dent doesn’t seem to have lost any of the zip on his serve either.

September 28th, 2009 at 12:57 pm

jane Says:

But since slams seem to be the ultimate measurement, then surely winning one warrants the title “champion”.

Really just semantics we’re arguing over I think.
I would say that from what I have seen of TV commentators I get the impression that the word “champion” is reserved for someone who is going to go down in history as one of the greats. Winning one slam by itself doesn’t seem to result in that kind of label by commentators from what I’ve seen. As far as the Hall of Fame goes…will it suffice to say that all of the champions in history are in the Hall of Fame but not everybody in the Hall of Fame is a champion?
In any event, I appreciate your approach of inclusivity and wanting to give as much credit as possible.

September 28th, 2009 at 1:22 pm

It occurred to me as I was writing that that the criteria for being accepting on the “Champion’s” legends tour is winning at least one slam…which supports your argument of how the word should be defined.

September 28th, 2009 at 1:28 pm

Jane,

yeah, nice results from Monfils. He lost his ways during DC against Netherlands but seems to have found his form again. Maybe his brains were geared towards his photo-spread in French Vogue during DC. lol. I question the man’s state of mind at times….actually, all Frenchies, maybe except Santoro. lol. Even with the women, Bartolli, despite having a good game, can be on-off as she pleases. The good thing is that they are all entertaining characters.

September 28th, 2009 at 1:57 pm

Hey everyone!

Been reading up on all your posts. As expected a rollercoaster ride through a myriad of tennis related topics. And a lot of deviations from the main topic addressed in the thread’s articles.

Especially concerning Serena’s behaviour, Fed’s use of expletives and how on earth did it get sidetracked to Andy Roddick?

Anyways, moving along….I attended Davis Cup last week and although the Netherlands put up a good fight, there was never any real hope of pulling an upset.

Looking at the first round draw for DC for 2010 I tend to lean towards a seeding(of place 1-8) of the best teams(say construed of the results of the past 3 years) to avoid a first round like this one.

I for one would love to see Fed go for a DC win, but at the same time, he must do what he and his team deems best in preparing for the gruelling season that constitutes ATP tennis.

Von!!! Good to see you defending your man with never diminishing passion and resolve! Good for you!

Hi Jane, gotta give you the trophy of most participating poster :)

I’ve been extremely busy with work, tough times to get through at the moment.

Well, Spain’s a lock for retaining the DC title.

Great to see La Monf win another tourney in 4 years….way too long a time coming.

Things heating up for the last stretch to the YEC.

Fed, Rafa, Muzzah all have ailments. Hope they’re all fresh soon. Good time for A-Rod, DelPo and Nole to step it up and get some good titles.

Also Soderling could be a real force and it would be nice to see him break into the top 10.

everything concerning the WTA: “no comment”
More drama there than in a Verdi Renaissance Opera

They should start a reality WTA show, could make a killing! Call it: “The WTA Tennis House Of Cards Come Crumbling Down”

@Margot: if I have given you the impression I was unfairly critical of Andy Murray, I just want to state, that was not my intention. I just said that the longer it takes him to break through it the higher the threshold will get mentally.

Of course he’s young, has plenty of time and as I have said “muchas veces antes” he’s just too good to not win one.

i am it, vulcan(explain the name my friend….) and been there….Nice to read your posts also!

September 28th, 2009 at 2:02 pm

Veno: Hello, mon ami. Nice to see you around and keeping up with all the tennis related news. Of course I’ll defend my Andy at all costs, but only when I feel that the accusations are unwarranted.

I’ve not been posting here much as I’ve begun posting on another site keeping in line with what I mentioned during the USO. I still read the comments here and add my two bits worth when I feel the urge to do so. I think I’ll eventually stop altogether when I become more accustomed to the other site, but I’ll miss you dearly, when that happens.

Take care of yourself mon ami, and remember, je t’aime bien!

September 28th, 2009 at 3:56 pm

NEW YORK (AP)—Sam Querrey cut his right forearm in a freak accident after practicing for the Thailand Open in Bangkok and will be out at least four to six weeks, the U.S. Tennis Association says.

USTA spokesman Tim Curry says the 21-year-old Querrey sat on a glass table after practice Monday and fell through, hurting his arm. The injury required emergency surgery.

A right-hander from Thousand Oaks, Calif., Querrey is No. 25 in the ATP rankings.

September 28th, 2009 at 5:22 pm

Von – that’s sad news about Sam! Hope he heals up soon. How weird, though, to fall through a glass table!

September 28th, 2009 at 7:13 pm

I suppose all of the talk and speculation with respect to Nadal cutting back on his schedule can now be put to rest, is now being brought to light, and some questions will at least be answered in part. According to Yahoo Sports, Nadal plans on playing doubles in Rotterdam, therefore, I think it would be logical to assume, he’ll be playing singles as well. Is this deja vu or what? OY

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/30092009/58/nadal-djokovic-confirm-rotterdam.html

For Nadal fans: Nadal’s absence on the tour causes a replle effect:

http://app.bronto.com/public/?q=ulink&fn=Link&ssid=10573&id=57o1b1va0vjpmp8d20ijkjqeckzv3&id2=4i3jnd637s5ysjyyjk5ahbtmjya87

**************
I am it: On the same page as the Nadal article there’s a slide show of DelPotro’s holding his USO trophy, with some other slides. Take a look if you’re interested.

September 30th, 2009 at 6:49 pm

ooops: “For Nadal fans: Nadal’s absence on the tour causes a replle effect:”

s/b *ripple* not ‘repple’. OY

September 30th, 2009 at 6:58 pm

Do tennis players need sabbaticals? read about it:

http://app.bronto.com/public/?q=ulink&fn=Link&ssid=10573&id=57o1b1va0vjpmp8d20ijkjqeckzv3&id2=dvupiqq1lax8ej7qtlsy0h8lerirh

September 30th, 2009 at 7:12 pm

Hingis discusses her cocaine charges with SI:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/jon_wertheim/09/30/martina.hingis/index.html

October 1st, 2009 at 5:58 pm

Once in a while I indulge myself. Below is an article on Andy Roddick’s booming serve. Way to go puddle ducks!!

http://app.bronto.com/public/?q=ulink&fn=Link&ssid=10573&id=igr0jle0y6de8rhob3tmjybanuk10&id2=ec2f2lwxu64lo5azsqj5gee0hyyly

October 1st, 2009 at 7:20 pm

Addendum @ 10/1/09 @ 7:20 pm, the above was an analysis by John Yandell. His, is always a good read.

October 1st, 2009 at 7:23 pm

i read that one on dePo a couple of days ago. they had it on the main page. i had never been to the yahoo tennis Blog page in particular before. just checked it out. interesting stuff. thanks. thanks also for verifying the Kramer stuff and the post.

October 1st, 2009 at 8:21 pm

Glad you liked the Yahoo blog, I am it, and you’re welcome! I love to read the comments, which at times, can be extremely hilarious. Talk about some cat and/or dog fights, they have it there. I have found the USA Today and NYT blogs to be somewhat more edifying, but when I want laughs, the Yahoo blogs aptly hit the spot.

October 1st, 2009 at 9:12 pm