Sean,

That was quick! But then again, you always are fast off the draw.

Your title makes it sound as though Rafa isn’t *already* number 1, which, of course, he is. I know you mean year-end number 1 after reading the article, so that’s a quibble.

Djoko doesn’t seem to be playing in Vienna (which is surprising since he won the title there last year), but this may be because he added Bangkok this year. I thought he was a lot further behind Roger than 22 points, but I am probably thinking of the rolling rankings, wherein Roger seems pretty comfortable at number 2 for the moment. The race, however, is different.

Does year-end race ranking affect anything? Seeding at tournaments or the like? Isn’t it only the 52 week rolling rankings that are any consequence? Just curious.

jane,
“Does year-end race ranking affect anything? Seeding at tournaments or the like? Isn’t it only the 52 week rolling rankings that are any consequence? Just curious.”
The thing is, year end race rankings are supposed to be exactly the same as the regular ranking at the end of the year.. year end is the one time they are the same… not in points but in position…. otherwise it wouldn’t make any sense.

This is so weird… he decides not to play when he looks healthy but keeps on traveling and playing tournaments when he looks tired and sick….. Federer makes such wild decisions.

“Does year-end race ranking affect anything? Seeding at tournaments or the like? Isn’t it only the 52 week rolling rankings that are any consequence? Just curious.”

well, its a nice feeling to #1 going into off-season and you are guaranteed to enjoy that for like 6 weeks. Usually the sponsor bonuses are tied to the year end rankings, so Rafa can count on some extra $$$. besides the cash, historians do keep track of these things, esp after Sampras’s 6 year run.

But yeah, I think Roger will skip madrid too. I am glad that he is taking the break and not chasing the rankings in short run.

Sean,

It will be costly for Fed to pull out from Madrid. He has 350 pointd to defend there. But he has nothing (almost) to defend in Paris.Maybe he plans to rest and come back and sweep Paris and Shanghai, which is not impossible for him.

This is what the big three have to defend by the end of this year:

Rafa:675
(Madrid: 125+Paris 350+ Shanghai 200)

Fed: 1325:
(Madrid 350+ Paris : 75+ Shanghai 650 + Basel 250)

Djoko; 480:
(Madrid: 225 + Paris : 5+ Shanghai:0 + Vienna:250)

Current ATP points:
1-Rafa:7000
2-Fed: 5930
3-Djoko: 4960

if Fed drops Madrid and Djoko drops Vienna the ranking points will be:

1-Rafa:7000
2:Fed: 5580
3-Djoko:4710

If Fed withdraws from Madrid but wins Paris and Shanghai and Basel and if Rafa withdraws from Madrid, Paris and even Shanghai and if Djoko just defends his points, the ranking points will be like this:

1-Rafa: 6225
2-fed: 5855
3-Djoko:4710

and the race points will be:

1-Rafa:1265
2-Fed: 1070
3-Djoko: 945

I think it is very likely for Rafa to finish the year as number 1.

Djoko has 5 points to defend in Paris and 0 points to defend in Shanghai. This means that a good performance in Madid and Paris by Djoko and a slip by Fed, can bring Djoko to no 2.

Nacho: I think he wanted to wait until after the US Open.

If he’d pulled out before the Open, the press would have had a field day crying up the “fall of Federer.” There would have been speculation that this break was really a prelude to early retirement and that his confidence was totally gone, etc. etc.

Having won Grand Slam #13 and silenced the critics for the time being, he can take a couple weeks off without being absolutely hounded by the media.

He did say he didn’t feel he was playing his absolute best at the US, that he could play a bit better. And I’d say that was accurate–he was at about 80% in the semi and the final.

I heard somewhere that his usual training regimen was to block off three solid chunks of practice time during the year, at precisely scheduled times. My guess is that his mono and the Olympics really disrupted his schedule, and that he’s the kind of person who has to have a regular training routine or he’s going to be off during match play. It’s also possible his confidence was dented early in the hard court season, but we’ll never know for sure.

I’m sorry, but does this seem like a bit of a cop out to anyone else? Have a shaky start to the year, announce your mono diagnosis, claim you’ve recovered, win Estoril & Halle, but lose every match-up you have with Rafa this season (including 2 Grand Slam finals), have a so-so hardcourt season (up until the US Open of course), lose the No. 1 ranking, mention your battle with mono a couple more times and your suspicions that you likely had it once before during your career, lead the Swiss team against Belgium in the World Group Davis Cup play-offs, and then bail out on the rest of the year? What?

Come on, Fed. I don’t know, it just doesn’t seem right to me. But maybe that’s because I know what will come of this (assuming this is not just a pull from Stockholm): he will forever have an “excuse” for why he didn’t end 2008 as the No. 1 ranked player. “Oh yeah, I had mono that year. And I didn’t play much after the US Open.” Ugh, own up, you’re not the best player this year and it’s NOT just because you got mono and you’re tired. I’m sorry, but I’m irritated. I feel like more and more these days his attitude is that of finding reasons to explain why he lost, and not why someone else won. I don’t think he’s as humble and gracious and classy as seemingly everyone claims him to be. I think people thought that because he used to “win everything.” I think he’s pissed off. I think he’s irritated for having a so-called crappy season (by Fed standards, as people have been saying). I think this is a cop out. And I think it’s pretty lame.

steve Says:
“He did say he didn’t feel he was playing his absolute best at the US, that he could play a bit better. And I’d say that was accurate–he was at about 80% in the semi and the final.”

This is exactly what I’m talking about. I read elsewhere that he said he was playing the kind of tennis where he felt invincible again, unbeatable. Well which is it, Fed?? Are you tired and dragging yet so amazing that you can win a slam playing sub par tennis (the very same year that you had mono, by the way - cool!)? Or are you fit and confident and capable? What gives?

Guess he didn’t silence all the critics.

judging by Rafan’s username, I suspect he’s looking for every opportunity to cast aspersions on Federer, in the misguided hope that it will boost Nadal’s stock.

He made it to one Slam semifinal (while he unknowingly had mono!) and three Slam finals, one of which he won. For any other player, that would be an excellent season.

Nadal’s the first player to win the French and Wimbledon back-to-back since Borg, the #1 player, and has a great chance to finish @ #1. His incredible accomplishments this year speak for themselves. I didn’t see anything in Federer’s statement to disparage those achievements.

It’s a pity some of Nadal’s fans can’t simply enjoy his success this year, but have to pile on Federer to get any pleasure out of it.

I’m not going to parse Federer’s statements with a microscope trying to look for consistency.

I don’t really care what he chooses to say in public to keep his spirits up. We all know athletes, especially in a sport like tennis where the responsibility rests on one person’s shoulders alone, have to fool themselves sometimes to keep going when things are tough. I’m not going to begrudge him that.

Federer’s smart enough to know that the trophy is what matters at the end of the day, not what narratives people may or may not feel compelled to construct for reasons of their own.

Oh Steve, calm down. Being a fan of a particular tennis player doesn’t mean you hate everyone else. Nadal doesn’t need any stock boosting from me or other fans, he’s had a great season. All I’m saying is that it’s unfortunate that Federer looks to be bailing on the end of the season, where all the top players will be looking to compete with each other. And I’m confused by his wishy washy statements, and the way he chooses to explain his triumps and defeats.

And for the record, I referred to his season as a so-called crappy season (by Fed’s standards) because I agree with you, he’s had great results this year.

The most probable cause is that the adrenalin effect is gone after the Olympics, US Open and Davis Cup, and that he now feels the fatigue again…

Federer realize that if he wants to start 2009 the right way, he needs to take a break and rest, otherwise he will not be at 100%.

Just a thought…

Someone mentioned in a previous article that they judge Federer’s year not by the results but by his actual play, and I completely agree with that. Federer has not been the same all year. Mono or old age or just champion’s fatigue, doesn’t matter. He hasn’t been the same Roger Federer. If he was, would Nadal be number 1 right now? Impossible to tell. I think if the old Federer had been in that Wimbledon final, he would’ve won. The FO final would’ve been closer, straight sets still imo, but closer sets. Maybe he would’ve still had a crappy summer and still had lost the number 1 ranking, but it’d be a closer race than it is.

Rafan, you’re accusing Federer of copping out. It’s funny, people have been giving Federer all types of advice from how to beat Rafa to what to do with his mono. He’s never really listened. So when I first read Sean talk about Federer taking time off, and then saw Jim Courier say the same thing, I thought, no way will Federer do that either, even if it’s a good idea. But he’s doing it and it is a good idea. He’s not the only saying he should be taking time off. I’m a little disappointed because I’d like to see Federer add a few titles to his name this year, but I’d rather see him win 100s of more titles in the next few years than 2 or 3 more in the next few months.

The one thing that should be taken away from 2008 is that Rafael Nadal is one of the best players in history. No matter what happened or was happening to Federer, Nadal has been incredible this year. I’m not a fan but I have the utmost respect for everything he’s accomplished. I think Federer is still a lot better but Nadal is clearly the best player of 2008. If there’s any excuse for Federer not finishing this year number 1 it’s Nadal. No matter how bad or good Federer played, it was up to Nadal to win all those matches and he did. When Federer was losing in the 2nd and 3rd rounds of every tournament during the summer, it was up to Nadal to steamroll his way to every title and he did. And Nadal’s win at Queens had absolutely nothing to do with Federer, it was all Nadal.

So yeah, Federer was sick and has all these excuses, but Federer’s always given Nadal the credit he’s due. Federer has admitted to knowing Nadal would be amazing and after last year’s Wimbledon final, Federer knew his time was limited and Nadal was going to take over soon. Federer said he wanted someone to really have to dominate the game in order to take the number 1 ranking from him (which is kinda weird because that means Federer expected to dominate…) and he was glad Nadal was able to do it. Not glad that he wasn’t number 1 anymore but glad that it was Nadal and not some other shmuck who did it and did it in an incredible way.

You’re a fan of Nadal so you give Federer all this shit. It can be argued that Federer is a better player thanks to Nadal because of how much of an obstacle he’s been. But what about Nadal. For so many years Nadal has dominated clay, gotten close on grass, and had some good results on hard. Still not enough. And no matter how many times Nadal beat Federer, Federer was still 1000 points above Nadal in the rankings. So all these years, Nadal has worked on improving his game on every surface. He dominated the FO like it was nobody’s business. He dug as deep as he could to claim the most prestigious title in tennis, Wimbledon. And he dominated the summer hard court season almost as much as he dominated the clay. 1 MS, the Olympics, 1 MS semi, and 1 GS semi. He’s been number 1 on every surface this year and it’s because he had to be in order to dethrone Federer. So before you criticize the shit out of Federer like he’s some sort of demon, say thank you to him for helping Nadal achieve more than anyone ever thought he would.

Rafan:

“Being a fan of a particular tennis player doesn’t mean you hate everyone else.”

You said:

“I don’t think he’s as humble and gracious and classy as seemingly everyone claims him to be. I think people thought that because he used to “win everything.” I think he’s pissed off.”

How is this not a personal attack?

Federer was blindsided a bit by the media’s readiness to shove him aside after one less-than-perfect year.

They needed a new narrative to hype up and keep interest high after four years of praising Federer: the fall of Federer. And that narrative they sold ad nauseum, all year long.

I think Federer was a bit annoyed by how mercenary it all was, and how efficiently and seamlessly they switched from praising over him (like in David Foster Wallace’s ridiculously over-the-top piece in the NYT) to burying him.

After Wimbledon, McEnroe mouthed off about how he thought Federer was done, that he’d never win another major, never be number one again.

If you’d won five Wimbledons in a row, wouldn’t you be just a little pissed at hearing that kind of talk? And he talked about how he got tons of letters and voicemails and even self-help videos from people, telling him what he should do to recover. It can’t have been easy for him to hold his tongue in the face of all that.

As for Federer’s temperament, I think he’s got a realistic appraisal of his abilities and his place in tennis history. He’s not going to go around boasting and putting down other players, but he is confident of his prowess and proud of his accomplishments, and rightly so. He certainly isn’t going to put on a phony show of fake humility to make people think he’s a stand-up guy. That’s even more obnoxious than outright arrogance.

Recall James Blake saying that the only tennis player who paid him any attention at all while he was in hospital, recovering from a broken neck and wondering whether he’d ever have a career again, was Roger Federer. That, to me, is the conclusive proof of Federer’s class and graciousness.

Whether that’s enough for you, is of course, up to you. But your comment certainly showed neither class nor grace.

It’s really annoying to hear fans say Federer isn’t classy and this and that. I’ve read dozens of his interviews and I still don’t know where the hell he came up with so much bull shit in most of those interviews. Even in his dominant days, Federer was never one of those players who was just like “I lost because he was so great and blah blah blah, I was helpless…” Except for against Nalbandian last year when he said he really felt he could do nothing against him in the rallies. But that doesn’t make him an awful person. Blake is one of the players who’s always praised Federer. Ljubicic, too. And even Roddick, who has always had great things to say about Federer. Roddick’s defended Federer this year JUST LIKE Federer defended Roddick back in 2006 when everyone was giving Roddick shit. And even the almighty Rafael Nadal has always had great things to say about Federer. Besides Roddick and Blake, these players aren’t all best friends who came together and said “Let’s pretend we love Federer for whatever reason”. Federer doesn’t always come off as the classiest guy but he’s gotta be at least somewhat decent for all these players to love him so much.

Jane, according to the front page of atptennis.com, Djokovic’s next tournament is Vienna. That’s what I’m going by.

Zola, I’m not looking at the 52-week rolling system, just the 2008 Race points which eventually will match the 52-week points following the TMC.

Rafan, Fed’s withdrawal doesn’t give him an excuse for not finishing No. 1. Fed has no excuse. And remember, right now he’s only withdrawn from one event. And like I said my guess is he’ll play Basel then Paris. Rafa on the other hand will play Madrid then maybe Paris. So who knows, maybe Fed will play more events ahead of Rafa pre TMC. Who’s really the one bailing if that happens?

sensationalsafin, good point. Had Roger just been just an also-ran kind of player, would Nadal be where he is today? It’s debatable.

…What’s an “also-ran” player?

WOW! You guys are crazy pissed off that someone has something to say about Fed’s decision. And what is this demon talk? Demon? Demon?! Can’t people have opinions anymore? I’m not demonizing him. I’m question the reasons behind his decision! I’m not calling him a demon! My GOD. So, judging from these posts, you guys are apparently allowed to express your opinions. But what about everyone else? Do we just have to accept what you say as truth, as fact? Is that how this works?

Steve, you of all people should be aware that people have opinions. Man, look at you unload here! Why can’t I?

I have my own opinion on his announcement. You have your own impression. Fine. Deal with it.

Rafan:

Why so defensive? If you think Federer is an arrogant prick who’s always making excuses for himself, own up to it! Don’t weasel your way out–yell it from the rooftops as loud as you can! Why shouldn’t you be proud of your opinion? It is, after all, as valid as the next person’s.

Saying you aren’t a fan of an athlete is one thing. Saying he’s an asshole and a fraud and lazy is something quite different and you oughtn’t to be so shocked that people respond strongly to that kind of personal attack.

Well finally, Federer is listening to his body and doing what should be done, he’s taking a sabbatical. I’ve mentioned previously that I would have liked to see him culminate this season at the USO, and forget the ranking, then start fresh in 2009. What he’s doing now is close to that and hopefully he’ll have the much needed rest his psyche craves. His overall feeling of reclaiming the No. 1 ranking is still upper-most in his mind, per his statement in this article, and he’ll only be able to attain that with the appropriate R&R. I’m in favor of anyone treating his/her body with respect and not abusing it for the sake of money or glory. My respect for Federer has gone up some notches to see that this man cares about his log-term prospects and his longevity in the sport, and has thrown caution to the wind by doing that which is most necessary. Good for Fed, and his fans should feel happy and relieved that he’ll be back with renewed vigor and purpose in his game. Who knows perhaps the old Roger Federer will again, be more prominent/visible in his game when he returns — shades of mastery. I’d like to see that spark return for him and several athletes who are just burnt out from stressing over their ranking and the publlic’s opinion.

There are some comments about the defense of the TMC points. I had asked this question previously as to what happens to a player’s ranking points if he doesn’t qualify for the TMC and the answer I received from Noel, was to the effect that the points are usually taken off, hence there’s nothing to defend. With this scenario in mind, coupled with the small amount of points Fed has to defend, at Madrid, it would appear that Fed doesn’t have anything to be concerned about, due to the fact that whether he defends or does not defend those points, he’ll still end the year as the No. 2 player. Considering the foregoing, and Fed’s statement: “At this point, I am not sure when I will be ready to play again, but I hope to be back at some point before the end of the year,” it’s obvious that he’s hazarding some thoughts to return to playing at the TMC while skipping Madrid and Paris, rest for another 6 weeks and be fresh for the ‘09 AO. If I were Fed that’s the scenario I would be mulling over in my mind. He’ll be rested, relaxed and eager to go on, keeping as the focal point in his mind’s eye the No. 1 ranking, which he is determined to regain.

______________
An “also-ran” is one who is in the race but has not won the coveted first-place prize. It’s a term mostly used in the equestrian field with respect to thoroughbred race horses. “Come on Rover, move your bloomin arse”. This is what Eliza said to her favored horse at Ascot in “My Fair lady”.

It’s funny how fed’s fans and rafa’s fans pull each other out with arguments when neither of these two arguably classy players dislike each other. Much the opposite.
I guess they would be really LTAO if they happen to read what fans at both sides of the spectrum are saying about them.
At the same time, I do believe a large number of fed fan’s have been spoiled for so long due to the unquestionable domination and “best ever” status roger deservedly won over the last five years or so. It seemed he couldn’t lose at all to ANYBODY, because, well, he was so much better than ANYBODY it is simply unacceptable. The other guy got really lucky or roger was so unfortunate to be injured!!
On the other side, it seems to me an escalating number of rafa’s fans see their guy as the one who brings justice to this world, tired of the King of Everything who couldn’t find a proper kryptonite to his forces. It seems Superman can’t possibly get a blister!! So what mono??
Me, I’m hoping and wishing Djoko and Murray, and possibly Del Potro and Cilic, and who knows who else make them both run for they money at the Majors pronto. And with consistency.
I say this because the fights and arguments over this two can become really annoying sometimes.

Steve, you don’t have to keep trying so hard, I get it - you’re obnoxious and like to cuss on posts in order to “really get your point across.” Well done.

Never weaseled out. Never called Fed an arrogant prick or an asshole. Those are all your lovely words. I maintain my valid opinion.

interesting discussion.

Sean,
so you are saying that Rafa would not be no 1 if Fed didn’t have mono?

Is there a beginning and an end to the mono strory? or is it going to be there forever?

Fed played an excellent match in Wimbledon. did he have mono there? Did he have mono in FO? US Open? the olympics? MonteCrlo? Indian Wells?
You have to decide on the mono story.

According to Fed, it was at the beginning of the year. he has never used it as an excuse for losing. So I hope his fans follow the example. Rafa is no 1 because he worked hard on his hard court game and he is now a better player.

All these aside, I think it is wise for Fed to take some time off. It was a grueling season and he has played lots of matches. Same goes for Rafa who has played at least 20 matches more than anyone.

My guess is that Fed wants to put his schedule back in place and get ready for Paris and Shanghai and 2009.

About the ATP points,
I know you are talking about ATP race. If Fed drops out of Madrid, he will lose a potential 100 race points and won’t be able to get to no 1, unless he plays and wins some other tournaments.

Steve
***Saying you aren’t a fan of an athlete is one thing. Saying he’s an asshole and a fraud and lazy is something quite different and you oughtn’t to be so shocked that people respond strongly to that kind of personal attack.****

where exactly rafan said those words? can you provide a link please?

fernando - I hope the same sorts of things, that others continue to rise and challenge the top two, not because of the arguments over the two top guns, however, but because it’ll make tennis more and more exciting, the more who can challenge for and win major titles.

————–

Sean, thanks for the clarification; I could’ve sworn after Bangkok I read that Djoko’s next up was Madrid in those same little boxes at the ATP website, but maybe I misread.

————–

Thanks, too, to NachoF and tennisontherocks for your replies to my question re: end of year race versus rolling rankings.

Steve , first of all many thanks for defending Roger! I see Rafan seems to b doubtful about Fed’s sportsmanship,honesty and integrity.So wat? I also honestly believ dat except Nadal,most of d other guys may lose 2 Fed even when he’s at his 80%.

rafan, you are getting a taste of what I’ve experienced on this board. That is one of the reason why I didn’t return. fact is, its pro-federer. woe unto anyone who points out any kind of weakness in federer. don’t take my word for it, read the day-to-day comments carefully. according to the majority, there is always a legetimate reason for what federer does or doesn’t do. the concenus is, how dare you speak negatively of the great federer! federer fans just might rip your head off and feed it to the wolves! you’re right! federer is not the classy and gracious player that everyone exalts. he disguises it well!. revisit the 2008 wimbledon finals, check out federer’s facial expression toward rafa doing the presentation. truth be known, he’s envious of nadal because rafa pursued his dream of becoming #1 during a time when federer was declared king. do you actually think this didn’t devastate roger? matter of fact, roger was reported saying earlier this year that being ranked #2 or #3 didn’t mean anything, the only thing that mattered was #1. he leads everyone to believe that its ok that he’s #2, but its far from being ok. I’ve observed him for a long time, and I don’t take anything away from him incredible ability, but my goodness, there are other players who deserve credit when they perform well! tennis is not all about roger federer. if everyone played like roger, how boring do you think the game would be. differences in styles is what makes tennis exciting! thank goodness that a player like rafa nadal is in the mix, as well as djokovic, del potro, murray, verdasco, nalbandian, and others! by the way, don’t waste your time blasting me about my comments, it won’t change a thing!

Zola, as I’ve said before we’ll never know the full details/timeline/story of Fed’s mono until his “book” comes out. Until then it’s all up for debatable speculation. But I’ll call it from the start of the year until the start of the clay season.

As for No. 1, no I’m not saying that Rafa’s No. 1 because Fed had mono.

And yes, mono has really affected Fed from d beginning till now. Yet Fed’s classy enough not 2 hav taken d excuse of mono during any of his losses.Yes,I mean try in ur imagination 2 put urself in Roger’s position as then only u will understand him!

Jane

Isn’t it funnier? I’m old enough to pick my “best time ever” as a tennis fan. It was circa 1983 trough 1987. There were like five, six or seven candidates to take slams. Seven!!

And I don’t mean the laughable smorgasboard that has become the WTA today, with even Dementieva with a chance to take over at year’s end (no offense to her, mind you)

I mean five or six or seven legitimate, consistent players with a chance. Although Lendl dominated a great part of that span, he was as far as a “sure thing” a winner in slams as Fed has been the last few years in almost anywhere (but the French)

Of course, you’ve got Lendl. But then you’ve got Becker, and Edberg and Wilander winning time and again over him in slams. And refreshing surprises like Noah and Cash (again, over Lendl). You’ve got bohemian artists like Mecir, throwing some corpses when he cared and his body let him, entertaining the hell out of everyone. And even erratic ones like Leconte. And don’t forget about the old Connors and McEnroe who were fading but still threatening.

If a seem like a nostalgic, I could’ve pick the 70’s too. But that span in the 80’s was the best in variety and styles. And consistency too! All the players I mentioned were consistent top-tenners and multiple tournament winners (or at least davis cup winners in the case of Cash), but not flashes in the pan or opportunists. They won over each other quite a lot (nobody was like 2-13 against the other. -Hello Andy?:-); not at that level.

Of course, no “best ever” were throw in at that time and, believe or not, tennis as a whole was so much entertaining for it. At least for me.

Because…What’s so funny about two cats fighting alone? Or one pummeling all the “competition”? Their fans?

I can certainly enjoy a match like this year’s Wimbledon final. And who wouldn’t?

But I wish we had more people in the fight.

Mem, thanks for the support! It’s crazy up in here

fernando - ah, I see were both “old enough” to remember the mid-80s in tennis lore. I recall that time well, and like you, I enjoyed it thoroughly. I loved the Lendl vs. Mac battles - classic baseline versus serve and volley affairs. But Mac wasn’t the only volleyer - you had Edberg too. And then the workmanlike efforts of Connors. Variety in talent, styles, and winners - that was what I liked too. But I am not nostalgic; there are a number of great players now, and I want to see more of them winning.

“More people in the fight” - excellent last words. Let’s hope for precisely that in the next few years of tennis.

Rafan:

These are your words:

“But maybe that’s because I know what will come of this (assuming this is not just a pull from Stockholm): he will forever have an ‘excuse’ for why he didn’t end 2008 as the No. 1 ranked player. ‘Oh yeah, I had mono that year. And I didn’t play much after the US Open.’”

You read highly unsportsmanlike motives into Federer’s withdrawal.

He could, of course, just be tired after a tough year. But you’d rather assert–with no evidence, of course–that he’s just doing it to provide himself with an “excuse” why he’s not going to end the year as #1.

“I don’t think he’s as humble and gracious and classy as seemingly everyone claims him to be. I think people thought that because he used to ‘win everything.’”

Two aspersions there: one: that Federer’s really a jerk, and that his offcourt reputation as a nice guy is a fraud perpetuated by Federer himself, the media, and/or his fans. Two, that his fans are so shallow that they only support him and think well of him because he’s been so dominant.

“I read elsewhere that he said he was playing the kind of tennis where he felt invincible again, unbeatable. Well which is it, Fed?? Are you tired and dragging yet so amazing that you can win a slam playing sub par tennis (the very same year that you had mono, by the way - cool!)? Or are you fit and confident and capable? What gives?”

You’re implying that Federer’s either deliberately talking out of both sides of his mouth or is confused and inadvertently contradicting himself. I don’t see any other interpretation of your statement, though I am willing to be enlightened, should you care to explain yourself.

Your opinion of Federer, as a person and sportsman, is clearly very poor. You’re welcome to it, but don’t fault me for saying what you would obviously love to say but don’t have the guts to say.

And by the way, the word is “curse”, not “cuss.”

“It’s funny how fed’s fans and rafa’s fans pull each other out with arguments when neither of these two arguably classy players dislike each other.”

I love it! As a tennis supporter, and one who is not a fan of the top 3, this is fun for me to watch this scenario and absolutely enjoy the fireworks emanating from this comedic play. Now we’ll see the true personalities of those who were play-acting to win friends and influence people and towing the line, while speaking from both sides of their mouths — absolutely hilarious. This is the real deal!

“They won over each other quite a lot (nobody was like 2-13 against the other. -Hello Andy?:-); not at that level.”

I’m a Roddick fan and believe me I’ve had my share of disappointments, which were so many, that I feel I’m now marinated in the sauce of it all! In all fairness to Andy, who seemed ill-fated 80 percent of the time to be placed in Fed’s side of the draw, his lopsided H2H against Fed is a lot more attributable to the weak competition Fed faced en-route to his matches against Andy. It was the weak competition that is responsible for Fed progressing to the QFs, SF, and finals in the MS and GS tournaments. Not one of those competitors were able to challenge Fed, and had the competition been stronger prior to Fed’s match-up with Andy, where one of Fed’s opponents had beaten him, then there would not have been so many Roddick v. Fed matches, and Roddick’s H2H would have been considerably more respectable than what it is at the present time. Anyway, such is the nature of the draws and the competition as it was then, but hopefully, this will be changed due to the emergence of the younger crop of players who are probably not viewing Fed with his past aura. I’ve been harping that 2009 will be a revolving door in the Top 10 with unpredictability, and in view of what we’re seeing, this will realistically be the case. Furthermore, I don’t see either Nadal or Djokovic becoming dominating players as Fed was, which is due mainly to the present crop of players who are all-court players, and also are more conscientiously working toward improving their game — they are hungry. I see tennis reverting to the ’80s era where every player in the top 10 will be a force with which to be reckoned — there’s a sort of expectancy and unpredictability in the air as opposed to the days of yore of predictability which were devoid of anticipatory pleasure.

steve:

‘You’re implying that Federer’s either deliberately “talking out of both sides of his mouth”

Gosh, darn it, I used those exact words “talking out of both sides of your mouth”. I’m sorry, but please don’t think I’m guilty of plagiarism. I wrote my post probably while you were writing yours. It’s something I conscientiously try to avoid, not using another’s speech or writing style — we should be original, but it’s an accepted fact that when we put out our style of writing on a forum then it loses it’s originality — it’s fair game for others to use. sorry, but I’m not guilty.

A footnote to my post, as I’ve already stated, I’m not a fan of the top 3, I’m a Roddick fan, and am unbiased in my opinion, ergo, I can emphatically state, that both Federer and Nadal fans are equally guilty of the type of behavior they they abhor in each other. You are all on the same rung on the ladder. So go for it!!

I need to quality my post, viz: “You are all on the same rung on the ladder.” Not ALL, BUT SOME of the Fed and Nadal fans. In both categories there are SOME very nice fans of each player.

Dear Von, I m indeed happy 2 know dat Fed’s takin a break. I’d love him 2 b fresh n revitalised before d next year starts,so dat he may again play carefree.
Nice post by u w.r.t. Fed pullin out of St.Open.
BTW,r u able 2 watch Tokyo match telecast?

gulu: Thanks for getting my back. I don’t see why so many of the Nadal partisans in this thread have to personally attack Federer. One can be a fan of one (or both, or neither) without doing so.

As far as the mono goes, it clearly did disrupt his whole season, especially when combined with the Olympics. A lot of people assume that simply because Federer’s play appears so effortless, that he must not put any effort into it. But he’s human too, and if he doesn’t put in the work, his level will drop. His usual practice schedule was severely disrupted, and I think at one point he said he just hadn’t practiced enough. But of course, it’s on him to find the time.

It remains to be seen if this year’s poor form was mostly due to the mono + Olympics + some other factors, or if he really is slowing down slightly because of age. The fact that he beat Djokovic and Murray, the world’s two best hard-court players after Federer himself, in back-to-back matches, reassures me a bit, but it’s still too soon to tell.

von: No offense taken, no apology needed. It’s inevitable that people are going to use the same expressions once in a while.

Regarding your previous post: I hope you don’t think of me as one of those “comedic” fans. I’ve never unduly slagged any player’s sportsmanship or insulted them personally; certain posters on this thread, however, show no such restraint.

I agree with you that the men’s game is very fluid for next year. The newer players to watch include (besides the top three) Murray, Tsonga, Gulbis, Cilic, Del Potro, and Nishikori. Of these, I would give Murray and Tsonga a credible chance of winning a hard-court Slam next year.

It’ll be interesting to see how it all pans out. As long as Federer and Nadal remain, however, I don’t see the #1 and #2 rankings changing hands every week, as is happening in the women’s tour.

gulu:

Did you see my post to you on the other thread? NOOOO, I can’t find anything on the Tokyo matches for live streaming. THIS IS AN ABOMINATION!! I have not been able to see OUR Andy, hope you note the emphasis on “OUR” Andy — you’ve been adopted. I’m beside myself with disappointment at not being able to see the Tokyo matches — this is preposterous. I scheduled my work day to accomodate the viewing of those matches and now there’s nothing. Can you tell that I’m angry?? That’s putting it mildly. I’ve yet to see one of A-Rod’s matches. For both Wednesday and Thursday his matches were played in the evening Tokyo time, and JustinTV stopped streaming just before his matches, so I was relegated to watching live scores and was sweating bullets from the scoreline. It’s the worst feeling trying to envision what’s happening. Oh well, I guess I’ll just have to go to sleep, but now I’m full of tea caffeine and can’t do so. Who said life was fair? Was it you? Well, enough of my complaints, let’s talk about YOUR Rogi.

It’s a good move on Fed’s part with respect to his sabbatical. He needs it big-time. Nothing like some R&R to enhance the immune system. I don’t know how much you’ve read in the past of my posts, but I’ve been stating that Fed needs to rest and forget the whole business of ranking points, No. 1 and playing tennis, period. Now that he’s doing this, it appears to me that he’s come to terms in his mind, that this is the best course of action to take. He’ll be revitalised and one of two scenarios will emerge and/or be manifested: (1) He’ll be revitalized and inject new energy into his tennis, which will be demonstrably visible in his level of play and his enjoyment; and/or (2) he’ll do a Sampras after Pete won his final USO GS, and think to himself, “this is good, why bother”. I don’t think he’ll do a Sampras or a Borg scenario, but one never knows does one, what his feelings are on the whole matter of playing competitive tennis, and how much he’s saturated, but to coin a phrase: “Only time will tell ….”. What do you think? Now you don’t have to suffer through Stockholm, Madrid, etc. I had enquired about the TMC points a while back, and one of my adversaries mocked me for so asking, because he thought I was scared for A-rod, but the truth of the matter is, I was thinking about Fed if he were to end his season at the USO. Isn’t that hilarious? Which just goes to show we shouldn’t jump to conclusions because we don’t know what another is thinking. I had picked Fed to win the USO, and I had stated it would be wise for him to culminate his season with the USO, which is somewhat akin to what he’s doing. Good for him and happiness for you, gulu. Keep smiling, and here’s the usual smiley for you.

I’m going to try to find some live streaming which is a chore for me because I’m not computer savvy on this sort of thing. Call me a slacker, et al., it’s just that I prefer TV viewing any day to sitting at my computer. Some time this week I’m going to go shopping for the largest LCD/HD computer monitor I can find. Bummer, this tennis thing is becoming too addictive and expensive at the same time. I wish I were rich instead of a proletarian, but again, who said life was fair, eh?

You guys are full of crap. I don’t wanna say I’ve never done this, but after the years I’ve spent commenting on this blog I’ve learned not to overly criticize the players I don’t like, and there are plenty of them. Nadal is one of my least favorite players but I’ve been praising him pretty much all year because of what he’s accomplished. I don’t have a problem with Nadal fans who are just proud of their guy. They have every right to be. But then there are people, I don’t care who’s fans they are, who constantly bash Federer for this or that. Quite frankly, when you’re 27 with 13 Grand Slam titles to your name, you have every right to be an arrogant piece of shit that everyone hates. Yet most people don’t hate Federer because he’s not that. Federer spins his words so much and so often that I don’t even care what his motives are. I think he does it so that people don’t know what they are and have no idea. So of course there are gonna be people who think his motives are good and others who think they are bad. It’s none of our business. If you’re a Nadal fan then you should feel happy that Federer isn’t going to try to overtake him in the rankings before the year ends. But of course this makes Federer classless. What about your precious Nadal? He’s so perfect right? Always makes himself the underdog and whatnot. I don’t say anything, though. He can do whatever he wants if it makes him play his best tennis because in the end that’s what really counts.

Von, you’ve always thought Federer was arrogant and I’ve always defended him. But lately I’ve been thinking Federer’s pretty arrogant, too. Although, in his defense, again when you have 13 slams you have every right to be. I think you compare him a lot to Roddick, which is why you see Federer as such an arrogant person. I can’t blame you. If I knew Roddick personally, he’d probably be the most genuinely good-hearted person I’d know. It just amazes me with all his charities and fundraisers and giving away $25,000 after winning a tournament. He started his foundation at 18, I’m 18!!!! I have no intention of doing anything like that but he did it and it’s just amazing. At the same time, Roddick doesn’t have those 13 slams to fuel his would-be arrogance.

steve:

On the use of the same words, I suppose the phrase “great minds think alike, and fools seldom differ.” I suppose it’s inevitable people will use the same words, i just don’t want to be labeled as as a plagiarizer.

Don’t worry, you’re not one of the comedic bunch. My words were carefully chosen, and I know those who are. As a matter of fact, I haven’t seen you posting frequently, that said, I haven’t formed an opinion as to who or what you’re like. I love humour and these situations make me laugh, because the true personalities of the slaggers cannot be restrained when they’re arguing over their faves — it’s funny. Believe me, as a Roddick fan, I’ve suffered from both groups of posters, so now it’s my time for just sitting back and watching as it all unfoulds and to learn some more about those who enjoy shredding and blowing A-Rod to smithereens.

I don’t think the top 10 will change like the WTA, but I do think there will be movement, and they can’t be cited for “moving violations”, because it will happen. Nadal won’t be able to sustain his current form over 4 years like Fed did, and Fed is not going to be the dominabt force he once was, but still very, very dangerous. He’ll still cause knees to quiver. That’s my humour you’re seeing. However, I feel that the competition will be very strong from the younger players, especially, those you mentioned. I’ve yet to be bowled over by Nishikori, Cilic and Gulbis. Nishikori seems to have a fitness problem. His run at Del Ray was impressive and he did beat Ferrer at the USO, but now he’s out of Tokyo. Both Gulbis and Cilic are big, flashy hitters, go for broke guys. I love to watch the ball bashers, but to me, they expend so much enegy bashing the ball, which renders them bereft of sustaining focus and then wilting in the final stages of the match, and that’s where they’ll be vulnerable. The UEs will pile up as the energy wains. However, Murray is on a different rung of the ladder all by himself with respect to his game — he has so much unexplored raw talent that it’s mind boggling to envision the sort of player that will eventually emerge when he matures a bit more. He’s on my list of faves BTW. I suppose I love the Andys. Del Potro, I don’t know why I’m hesitant to give the green light on his game in my mind, because he’s demonstrated he can hang tough by his results thus far, but I still want to see some more to place him as a fixture in the top 10.

“It’ll be interesting to see how it all pans out.” You’ve said it, and now, go for it in your defense. I’m a protester BTW, and a very controversial one at that, with humor injection.

sensationalsafin:

Yes, I’m guilty as charged, and it’s the arrogant bit that has kept me from being a Fed fan, together with the vacillation. However, he’s not the only one who’s guilty of that type of behaviour. It’s not a characteristic I like that’s all. His tennis is another story, and that’s where I’ve been able to disassociate my thinking about him. I’ve come a long way baby, that much you can give to me, and I’ll tell it like it is. I’ve been told many, many times, I’m honest to my own detriment, but I hope I’ll never be accused of speaking from both sides of my mouth or kissing butts, as I’ve seen demonstrated here. I suppose that’s why I like you — we’re similar in that respect and we love the same guy, Marat Safin. That bloody big lug nut has broken my heart so many darn times and has equally disappointed me, but I love the guy and always will. Which brings me to my Andy Roddick. I refer to him as ‘my Andy’ because there aren’t too many of his fans here — they’ve high-tailed it outta here. No, I don’t always compare Andy to Fed, only in the speech department. How could I their H2H in the slams department is ridiculous. All Fed has to do is be consistent with what he says, and when he says it. You’re correct that Roddick hasn’t won 13 slams, and damn Roger Fedder for stopping Roddick. Fed’s been the only one who could have done that, and more power to him, but he’s broken my heart many times too on account of that factor. BTW, Andy stated his foundation at 17 — that’s one for the books for the Roddick bashers — he’a a class act. I don’t think Roddick would be arrogant, because he’s a different personality from Fed, but different strokes for diferent folks. What I’ve seen of Fed recently is that he’s a kid at heart and not as matured in his thought processes like Andy. Moreover, underneath that facade there lies a little boy who is just asking to be noticed and accepted, and that is why he has won 13 grand slams. He’s winning fans by his work ethics and when he realizes that, he’ll understand there’s no need to be arrogant or be a bit of a braggadocio, his tennis is talking for him. It’s been that way all of the time, Fed has to understand that. You’ll see some shades of his past magic when he returns from his sabbatical. Hey, he listened when you asked him earlier in the year, Rog, just one big one. He did iit!! Now be happy and don’t worry; he’ll be back stronger and more relaxed/happier.

Hi Sensationalsafin! I think u r cool ! U got n interesting nickname I must say. U made a good point in ur post. Sometimes I also think dat Fed’s been
arrogant.May b his great achievements hav made him a bit more proud.Yet I’d say he’s a nice guy.

Oh dear Von,u r so sweeeeeee…..t ! Sending me lots of smiles! Well I think it’s difficult 4 Fed 2 play as wel as he used to.Still I hv confidenc in his ability 2 entertain us with his classic tennis n I hope all his wishes r fulfilled b4 he quits.

17, my bad. Even more incredible. I agree that Roddick and Federer are different and I’m not saying Roddick would be arrogant like Federer if he had all those slams. I’m just saying he doesn’t have those slams to really know if he’d be arrogant or not. It’s like getting a lot of power. You think you’d use it for good and not become power hungry, but you don’t know until you actually have that power.

I find it hard to agree that Federer’s just a kid beneath everything and Roddick’s more mature. I mean I’d see it as Roddick has had to go through a lot of hardships in his career that would make him mature whereas Federer was just a struggling young gun who eventually came into his own, nothing unusual there. But Federer’s coach died back in 2002 which definitely made Federer think about things. In a way, maybe that made him mature too much. Like he had to face reality at such a young age and he became so focused that he never got the chance to enjoy his youth as much. He became a workhorse and did everything in his power to achieve his goals.

Think of these people as a part of your group of friends. You have Roddick, the hard working honest guy who everyone likes. Then you have Federer, the hard working, super achieving guy who everyone likes to hang out with, but don’t like certain things about him or the way he carries himself. Lots of players have said Federer is a funny guy who jokes around a lot and likes to pull pranks. When you start playing a sport like tennis at a young age and are sent away to play in academies and stuff, I think it’s easy to lose out on some of your childhood. So if Federer’s a kid underneath, it’s not his fault. The thing is, though, Federer has matured. The guy’s a perfectionist, you can see it in a lot of the things he does. And the reason he used to be a hothead on the court was because he’d play imperfectly and that drove him nuts. He was quoted saying in an interview when he was like 15 “I should always be able to play perfect”… Or something to that affect. It’s in the prologue of The Quest for Perfection (I don’t have it on me). You can see this quest for perfection in his tennis. When he’s playing his best, everything is working in sync. He plays perfect tennis. When he’s off, well, we know what happens then and although he controls himself, it’s gotta drive him nuts. He deserves some time off the tour. He’s been so consistent over all these years and he’s played in so many tournaments and matches, he needs a little extra break.

Can somebody explain to me why it’s more prestigious to be year-end-#1 than #1 at any time of the year (I’m talking ATP ranking, not Race)? Since it counts points accumulated from the last 52 weeks, no matter what the date is, it encompasses a full tennis year (4 Slams, all Masters Series events, etc).
December 31st ranking has the same representativity as, say, March 15th!
Maybe they can do stats on month-end rankings: which player has been the most (total and cumulated) month-end-#1?

Dear Steve,you are always welcom.I’d say u expressed ur view honestly n without prejudice.I think u did d right thing.Nobody can question d credibility of Fed overlookin his situation/plight.At times I really feel we should hit back.Keep posting.

Why look at month-end rankings? That seems artificial. Plenty of stats are kept on weekly rankings. Federer is #1 in consecutive weeks at 236 while Sampras is #1 for total at 286.

I would guess that year-end #1 is just prestigious because it is the natural breaking point in the season. Also it fuels the whole end of season points race promotion the ATP does.

Thanks Jeff. I was just being scarcastic about month-end rankings, to illustrate how arbitrary it is to consider year-end rankings.
The ATP race exists just for that reason, even though it would mathematically possible to have a different year-end ATP Race winner and year-end #1 (because the ATP race/ranking points are not awarded in the exact same proportion for a given tournament).

sensationalsafin;

“I’m just saying he doesn’t have those slams to really know if he’d be arrogant or not. It’s like getting a lot of power. You think you’d use it for good and not become power hungry, but you don’t know until you actually have that power.”

True, we’ll never know if Andy would have been arrogant. But you are correct about power — power corrupts. Power causes an avarice in some people which is akin to that of money, and it never becomes enough. They want more of it and become so insatiable that it will drive them to destruction. Look at the lives that have been destroyed by power and the unquenchable thirst for it, and there you have a prescription for destruction if you’re seeking one. Power causes a heady feeeling, where people begin to think they’re invincible. This is where one’s spirituality helps to put things in perspective and gives us a reality check. It’s as though the Almighty steps in and says enough, no more idolatry and wrong use of power. However, we can only realize this if we’re believers that there’s someone greater than we humans. It’s a very deep topic.

“So if Federer’s a kid underneath, it’s not his fault. The thing is, though, Federer has matured. The guy’s a perfectionist, you can see it in a lot of the things he does.”

I didn’t mean it as anything derogatory when I stated Fed’s a kid underneath the facade. It’s meant as a compliment, and a fact that I think people overlook when discussing him. People tend to see him as an elder statesman or something to that effect, but in reality he’s only 27. He’s old in terms of tennis years, but so young in terms of growth. He still has developmental stages through which to pass to match his tennis maturity. My mention of Roddick being more matured in mentality, hinges on how clearly defined his parameters are and his outlook on his life as a whole. I don’t see that in Fed as yet, but he’ll get there. I’d say part of Fed’s problem could be due to his separation from his family at such a young age. Roddick on the other hand has had his parents and his older siblings to help mould his character and nothing can replace that in a child’s formative years. That’s where I see the deficiency in Fed and this is so clearly exhibited in his seeking out older friends such as Tiger Woods and Pete Sampras. Fed misses that bonding and security of having a strong family unit around him — he wants to be coddled, and that’s the kid showing through. A young person feels secure when they’re nurtured by an older adult. This is also the difference between Fed and Nadal, who’s had a similar lifestyle in terms of family closeness like Roddick. There’s no doubt that Fed lost out on that bonding in his formative years, and then the loss of his coach was the greatest blow of all. This is where Fed can identify with Sampras who lost his coach at an early age too. And, both these guys took their losses and used it as the energy force that has driven them to greater heights and what has made these guys the great champions they’ve become. It’s sad and yet profound at the same time. We’re all kids underneath. Fed’s pranks are a testament to him being a kid and playful at times. I’m a big kid at heart, and I wouldn’t want it any other way; it a characteristic that keeps us young at heart instead of becoming stodgy old farts.

With regard to perfectionistic tendencies, if astrological signs are benchmarks for our qualities, then I can say it’s true to a cetain extent for Leos. I’m a Leo, the same as Fed, and a perfectionist that could drive people crazy. I’m a work-horse, and expect others to perform equally the same. So believe me, I can understand his frustration. I’m glad we both agree he needs some time off the tour, and I hope he’ll not change his mind and come back sooner — he absolutely needs that R&R. I hope this doesn’t mean you’ll be taking a sabbatical from posting too, hope not, cause i’ll miss you. I won’t have anyone to keep me on my toes.

Well, from the scorecard Roddick’s in the QFs of Tokyo. I need to watch a few comedies to calm down my caffeine high and get some much needed sleep. TGIF tomorrow, and enjoy.

gulu:

News flash — Andy won his match against melzer and is now in the Tokyo Qfs. Have been able to watch anything on TV — none from my end and I’m so mad. Anyway, I’m happy Andy won. I don’t know who’s his next opponent.

“At times I really feel we should hit back.Keep posting.”

Are you trying to cause trouble? That’s my department. Shame on you. That was meant to be funny. I’ll talk to you later — this is it for me. Smile.

Federer is arrogant……it is true but he acts like he is not.I really agree with that.But thats what champions are and always will be.If u want to be a champ u have to believe that u r the best and everyone else is below you.Frankly I like djok’s arrogance and the way he walked but the public didnt.Nadal is also arrogant…its just that he disguises it well and keeps saying his opponent is the best and he is nothing when everyone else knows he is faking it.If he really believes that then he is not going to win a single match.

Von, it’s nice to that Rod’s is in
QF of Tokyo open. But I’ll b fully satisfied only if Rod goes all the way to win it. Best of luck Rod, go n get it !

If no longer protecting a #1 ranking, and your closest #2 competitor isn’t playing particularly well or consistently, what better time to take a break?

If Federer follows the top prize money, he will be at Madrid and the two year end masters tournaments.

I don’t know if it is significant, but the remaining tournamants are indoors. Federer was last seen outdoors on the USO hard courts.