ATP London Race (13 Oct 14): Roger Federer Closes In On Novak Djokovic’s No. 1 Ranking

The number 1 ranking will be between Roger and Novak,i doubt Rafa will be a factor in that one,especially with his health been the way it is,regaining number 2 would be more realistic for him ATM IMO….

October 12th, 2014 at 10:54 am

It’s interesting that the 6 guys ranked #6 through #11 are all either the top or second seeds at the 3 ATP250 tournaments this week – Moscow (Raonic and Cilic); Stockholm (Berdych and Dimitrov; Vienna (Ferrer and Murray).

Also – being #1 in the Race to London is not the same as being #1 at the end of the year. Federer still has a shit, but it is a long one. I covered that in detail in the previous thread.

October 12th, 2014 at 11:21 am

Gordon,

“Federer still has a shit, but it is a long one”

:D Man, you and daniel need to spell check once before you post!

October 12th, 2014 at 11:28 am

It is quite possible that Roger can become the year end No.1 and his victory at Shanghai has cemented it. But still the race is wide open and Novak can clinch the issue if he fares well from now on.

October 12th, 2014 at 11:32 am

Sirius, thanks for pointing that error out, the “long shit”, it made me laugh out long and loud. Thanks to Gordon for that accidental most humorous typo error?

October 12th, 2014 at 12:07 pm

Oops! 😳

October 12th, 2014 at 12:12 pm

@ polo/sirius/gordon: lmfao, rofl…

gordon almost killed me with that typo error….i was standing on the edge of my balcony while I read it. “long shit”….lol….yup, I m sure everybody has it from time to time ;))….lol-lol-lol !!

October 12th, 2014 at 12:17 pm

^^ plus what more is hilarious….gordon adds,
” I covered that in detail in the previous thread.”

ROTFL..LOL !

October 12th, 2014 at 12:21 pm

Quite strange Fed is in this position considering he only won his 4th tournament of the year, and only reached one slam final. I still think Djokovic will do everything he can to keep that No.1. It’s pretty important to him. Originally I thought he would maybe leave out a tournament when the baby is due, but now he can’t afford this anymore. Of course Rafa is out of this race, it was quite an unlucky year for him. Concentrate on the next year.

October 12th, 2014 at 12:24 pm

“London (1,5000 points)”
Fix it, please.

October 12th, 2014 at 12:39 pm

The Race to London starts in the first week of January with everyone at zero. It concludes with the Paris Masters 1000. At the end of that tournament whoever has the most points has won the race, and is seeded number one in London.

Fed could be seeded 1 in London, but by winning the previous year’s Barclay’s Final Djokovic would still be ranked #1 in the world in the Emirates ATP rankings.

Technically the race is over once the seeds are determined but if you wanted to add in post-Barclay points like the Davis Cup then yes they would be the same once all tennis had been played in a calendar year.

October 12th, 2014 at 1:14 pm

well my guess is that the race ends after Londen final on sunday. 500 points could enough for either of them to clinch it.

and remember DC final where Roger can win points for this years race
….

October 12th, 2014 at 1:26 pm

and besides the race starts december with 250 tourneys

October 12th, 2014 at 1:31 pm

LOL On the above posts….

October 12th, 2014 at 1:52 pm

sienna –

There are no December tournaments.

Doha, Chennai and Briscane are the 250 tournaments that kick off the new year in January.

And as I said, the race for London is exactly that; to determine who gets to play in the ATP year end championships. Any Davis Cup points get added on towards the Emirates ATP rankings. Once London’s year end tournament is over you can’t still accumulate points for it.

October 12th, 2014 at 2:26 pm

they start in december

You van qualify organisatie los 2nd round and You still have earned youre points for the race 2015 while 2014 is the year.

doesnt matter the race for year end #1 could end after Londen.

October 12th, 2014 at 2:35 pm

Bookies Odds on y/e #1 :
Joker 1/8
Fed 9/2

October 12th, 2014 at 3:56 pm

Humble has strong feelings on this.

Non-grandslam champions for the year don’t deserve number 1. It is an insult to the game that players win minor tournaments and clinch the year end ranking.

These Kings of the Minor League can get the KML title but not the number #1 ranking.

October 12th, 2014 at 4:37 pm

To Humble Rafa: No play, no say.

October 12th, 2014 at 4:46 pm

Humble Rafa,

Claiming that only the Grand Slams are important is akin to someone claiming to be a baseball fan but only watching the World Series.

So in addition to you being nothing more that an insult spewing troll you are also a part time tennis fan.

Interesting.

October 12th, 2014 at 5:19 pm

@Humble Rafa: Nah. But it’s a embarrassing stat for the Slam winners and the likes of Nadal and Djokovic especially since they’ll likely think: WTF have you we been playing at to let a non-slam winner end up no.1? How the hell did you we let a player who all would rather face in 2015 than us 2 finish at no.1? How can we honestly let a player who’s entire fan base look at every draw and think: gosh I hope he avoids Rafa, and Nole to end up no.1? How can we let a guy who in all likelihood will be 3rd fav in 2015 Grand Slams be no.1? Letting a player who’s success depends to large extent on how inform Rafa and Nole are in? Honestly speaking: Nadal and Djokovic should and likely will be embarrassed if a none Slam winner ends up no.1 since both would know deep down: I’m better than him! Rafa would be thinking: damn Nole I would his butt when I was in form in straight sets in AO infront of Sampras and Laver with Edberg post match saying when Rafa plays like that there’s jack my guy can do, all the while with the blister- how the hell did he get to number one without a slam? Nole would respond: —- Rafa it true! I was playing average at best and even I could have kicked his butt to the curb with a straight sets win on his turf Wimbledon when he was in form too! Rafa and Nole would seriously be embarrassed if they let a none slam winner who depends on them faltering sneak in to the top on their watch. Seriously embarrassed! With that in mind: ajde Novak for the top spot, ajde Slam winners coming out on top!

October 12th, 2014 at 5:45 pm

giles, as i am not the betting type, could you clarify what those odds mean? thanks.

October 12th, 2014 at 6:11 pm

@ Humble Rafa

Exactly – and players who specialize in just hit one type of shot ( moonball to the backhand of a FH. Player) should not win matches.

October 12th, 2014 at 7:02 pm

Jane – it means Nole is a heavy – read VERY heavy favourite according to the oddsmakers.

If you bet 8 dollars on Djokovic to finish #1 you would get 9 dollars back if he does it.

If you bet 2 dollars on Federer to finish #1 you would get 9 dollars back if he does it.

October 12th, 2014 at 7:18 pm

So to the geniuses in here who would deny Federer the number 1 ranking because he had not won a GS in 2014 – how would you envision changing the rules? and before you answer think of this scenario – what if Murray had won Wimbledon and Nishikori won Roland Garros; ie: 4 different winners of the slams but none of them Fed, Rafa or Nole?

October 12th, 2014 at 7:23 pm

I don’t think it’s good for the game that a non-slam winner ends number 1. But a little perspective is needed. Federer isn’t Wozniacki or Safina or even Marcelo Rios. He has 17 slams. He’s proven himself more times than any other male player in history. Should the year end number 1 hold a slam? Ideally. But if Federer manages to get the top spot without a slam, it’s not really the end of the world. Especially if he does so winning after winning the year end championships. That’s not exactly a minor event.

October 12th, 2014 at 7:57 pm

Djokovic would probably end up as the year end number one. That’s well and good. But if Federer overtakes him even without a major, that’s fine with me, too. It’s not like Federer played all kinds of minor tournaments just so he can accumulate enough points to be number one. At this point, I don’t think Federer’s main concern is to become number one. He wants to win tournaments, that’s all. If he becomes number one this year and many people are unhappy with that, then let them be unhappy. There will be many more who will be happy.

October 12th, 2014 at 8:13 pm

Before we all start discussion on whether it’s good for a non-slam winner can become no 1, it’s important to understand the objective of the ranking system.
One of the major objectives of the ranking system was and is to increase participation in the atp. 250,500 and 1000 events. The calendar and points were devised such that a player could win all slams in a year and still could end up behind a player who won nine masters and no slams.
One could conclude, based on , that 9 masters trophies is more important than 4 grand slam trophies

October 12th, 2014 at 8:19 pm

thanks for clarifying that gordon!

October 12th, 2014 at 8:32 pm

Regarding moonballing:
A tennis GOAT should be able to hit any type of shot that comes across the net……shouldn’t he??

October 12th, 2014 at 8:37 pm

@Jane…..Thanks for asking the betting question, I don’t bet either and don’t have a clue about “odds”.
Gordon helped me understand a little better.

October 12th, 2014 at 8:44 pm

Okiegal Says:
Regarding moonballing:
A tennis GOAT should be able to hit any type of shot that comes across the net……shouldn’t he??

October 12th, 2014 at 8:37 pm
—————–

Not necessarily – just like the GOAT scientists Einstein cannot solve every problem..and that doesn’t make Einstein any less of a genius than whet he truly is.

October 12th, 2014 at 9:11 pm

moonballing is fine.. just wait until he meets Roger’s RF 97.. Roger is almost done maximizing the output.. it sucks that Roger played with a 90 last couple of years.. stubbornness has its toll.. just ask Sampras on the same topic..

October 12th, 2014 at 9:14 pm

And okiegal – it’s just not moonballng.
Fed just did not have one skill – how to consistently return a high moon balled shot to his backed, Most of the other top players don’t have a variety of tennis skills such as chip n charge, serve and volley etc and cannot consistently apply these techniques. Using running to compensate for variety of tennis skills is in my opinion not considered worthy of greatness.
If Fed did become no 1 this year , which is highly improbable , would make the most highly skilled player the number 1 , which is very fair.

October 12th, 2014 at 9:19 pm

@Polo
It’s not like Federer played all kinds of minor tournaments just so he can accumulate enough points to be number one.
———

Fed did add Miami this year, but he also dropped Madrid and then crashed out of Rome in his first match back after his wife had twins. In a way, I count that as subtracting a tournament for Fed. So yeah, he definitely did not add anything this year. I won’t feel bad for Nole (from a tennis perspective) if he misses a tournament this fall for his own personal reasons, since Roger already did that earlier this year.

Having said that, I’m amazed that Roger continues to win and stay focused, not only at 33, but with FOUR KIDS. I can barely take care of myself, never mind one kid, or four!

October 12th, 2014 at 9:22 pm

Bottom line – for Federer to finish year end at number one he has to win the last Masters 1000 and then the year end final. To do that he will have to go through Djokovic twice more. Djokovic is the current number one, but if he were to lose 5 of 7 times to Federer this year (which is what it would be) would you really be upset that Fed was ranked ahead of Nole?

It is so unlikely that the above scenario could take place I think we are musing a little too much.

October 12th, 2014 at 9:35 pm

@Dc…….i am well aware that Roger is a highly skilled player and Rafa does other things besides moonball. If the moonball shot is Roger’s Achilles Heel, then all power to Rafa for hitting the shot and winning the point. I just don’t understand why everyone makes a big deal about it, that’s all. Is the moonball shot the reason for the lopsided h2h??
You tell me because I don’t know that much about the game having never played. I’m sure you have more insight about that than I do. Rafa has been doing something right against Fed. Nobody has any reason to argue about that…..the record tells the tale!

October 12th, 2014 at 10:12 pm

@Dc…..I disregarded your comment on Einstein….he’s so far over my head…..wonder if he liked tennis?? Lol

October 12th, 2014 at 10:39 pm

this is “moonball”.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEvq8ybeyzg
but tards will always tards. to mention Einstein in a post of tennis is worse than the djokovics forehands of yesterday.

October 12th, 2014 at 11:47 pm

What if Novak enters Paris and his wife goes into labor during the tournament? Can he just leave?

October 12th, 2014 at 11:58 pm

It all depend of Djoker. Does he really wants badly to finish year-end No. 1 and equal Rafa for a third time or prioritize his recent fatherhood and stop playing Paris Bercy to focus on his family at the expense of being the best of the season?
It would be shocking not to see the Serbian as number 1 in 2014, however, what bigger motivation for him to win the Masters Cup for a third time in a row as Nastase and Lendl, Nole can still make history this season.

October 13th, 2014 at 12:13 am

@Steve 27 Says:
this is “moonball”.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEvq8ybeyzg
but tards will always tards. to mention Einstein in a post of tennis is worse than the djokovics forehands of yesterday.
————————————————
but not worse than the injury excuses …

October 13th, 2014 at 12:33 am

It all depends on Basel right now. Don´t know if Djoko will enter there to compensate possible Paris withdraw due to Babyvic.

If Fed wins Basel than the difference will be 500 its and that can be compensate in WTF if Feds win there and Djoko run up, plus Fed´s DC points, this assuming both perform the same in Paris.

With have the intangibles now:
1 – Will Djokovic play Basel or Valencia next week?

2 – When will the baby be born and will Djoko withdraw mid Paris or not even play?

3 – Will the baby affect London for Djokovic, will he play?

4 – How well will Fed perform in Basel?

Maybe if Fed does;t win there Djoko can decide his next steps accordingly.

It is in both palavers racquets as they will only meet in final, but 1000 its can be gain for Fed if he goes undefeated in London and Djoko uses in semis, not out of the possibilities at all.

Unless Djoko opens the gap by 1700 (only achievable if he wins Paris and Fed loses R16) points before London (with DC for Fed), it seems this year it will be decided in London.

October 13th, 2014 at 12:41 am

@Steve 27 11:47………I agree, Rafa’s shot that is being called a moonball is nothing like the Woz shot…I didn’t quite understand the Einstein comment either. As I commented above, obviously my fav is doing something right when he plays Fed. How could anyone argue that point??

October 13th, 2014 at 12:42 am

To add to this heating up topic of whether federer (without holding a slam this year) wud be a worthy holder of the YEN1, if that happens:

# If he has to do that, he probably has to clean sweep the fall indoor swing….considering nole doesn’t misses out on the remaining tourneys.

# If that happens, fed will end up with the most no. of titles….the most no. of match wins….plus the year end championship which is no joke, a 1500 pts. tourney.

# He vl have one of the greatest post-slams season like nole had last year.

# None of the slam winning guys this year had an outstanding season….like winning multiple slams or a consistent show through out. Had rafa or nole won 2 or more slams….i could have understood, heck! he wud have already sealed the deal probably.

So taking all the pts above, I believe if roger reaches thr and takes the YEN1….he absolutely deserves it. PERIOD.

But having said that….roger still has to work his @ss off for that….which is a long shot, and could be the end of discussion in a single match from here on. such is the tightness of the situation.

But being a avid tennis fan….i wud absolutely love this suspence to go the distance. Imagine nole n fed fighting it out in the YEC finals….won’t that be a sight :))

October 13th, 2014 at 12:56 am

for Fed Basel still is way more important then paris. He might skip it and Djoker too.
By winning Basel and YEC he will probabily fall short only a few points..DC final could be the decider for the race.

the first meaningfull DC IT would be.

October 13th, 2014 at 1:30 am

dont be ashame Okiegal, disrespecting Rafa is a must for mononeuronals and worshippers fans of their “god”, they know deep inside that Rafa is much more than the moonballing thing.
they talk about the injuries, but they mention countless time age, surfaces, mono, match up problems, mental problems, back problems, and i dont know how more when their favorite lose a match.
Excuses! Get real folks!

October 13th, 2014 at 1:35 am

@Steve 27……They’re not gonna cut Rafa any slack at all. Maybe it’s jealousy cuz Rafa has been more successful against Roger than the other way around…..don’t know. I just know they are both amazing, Joker too….Love to watch those three play each other……always a real physical battle!! I want them to play 4 ever!!

October 13th, 2014 at 1:44 am

@Steve 27……They’re not gonna cut Rafa any slack at all. Maybe it’s jealousy cuz Rafa has been more successful against Roger than the other way around…..don’t know. I just know they are both amazing, Joker too….Love to watch those three play each other……always a real physical battle!! I want them to play 4 ever!!

October 13th, 2014 at 1:44 am

Don’t know much about odds, but that seems rather inconsistent. If “9/2” is the way to express that you get 9 dollars back if you bet 2, then “9/8” should be the way to express that you get 9 dollars back if you bet 8. “1/8” does not make sense to me.

October 13th, 2014 at 1:54 am

if a slamwinner should be #1 it has to be Cilic.
His win was the most excellent of all 4.
The level he managed was the future. he dominated like Roger in TMF mode or RAFA AT Garros.

October 13th, 2014 at 2:17 am

I can understand much wrangling going on as to how a player can become No.1 even without winning one major this year. Well, being No.1 just doesn’t depend on the consistency quotient this year, but also relate to the performance of last year and in this way it is a tad unfair to a player who has accumulated much success over last year which he needs to follow up this year too to remain No.1. That is how crude the point system works which puts enormous pressure on the defender of points. In the light of this, it is relatively easy to be No.1, but difficult to sustain it. Regarding this assumption of agitation by Novak and Rafa over Roger becoming No.1 without winning a slam rather undeservingly, well the ATP point system is very clear and if Roger becomes No.1 by virtue of meticulous manoevuring of the points table by craftily planning and scheduling his tournaments in such a way which places him at a comparative advantage, then there is nothing much to be blamed. Even if Roger becomes No.1 without winning a major this year (which I feel is highly unlikely) it is not the first time it would be happening. Marcello Rios was No.1 before and on the Women’s side we had Safina and Wozniacki who remained No.1 for longer periods without winning a major. Therefore, there is nothing unique about this and if Roger becomes No.1,he would deserve it.

October 13th, 2014 at 2:42 am

@sienna,

Please stop the nonsensical posts. Cilic is not even in the contention for YE no.1.

But if you compare Federer’s to Novak’s achievements this year, it’s not only about Grandslams. So far this year Novak has won 5 titles (1 GS, 3 Masters 1000, 1 ATP 500). and Roger has won 4 titles (2 Masters 1000, 1 ATP 500, 1 ATP 250).

Now tell me, who do you think deserves to be no 1: Roger or Novak?

October 13th, 2014 at 3:19 am

Ngentot wrote,

But if you compare Federer’s to Novak’s achievements this year, it’s not only about Grandslams. So far this year Novak has won 5 titles (1 GS, 3 Masters 1000, 1 ATP 500). and Roger has won 4 titles (2 Masters 1000, 1 ATP 500, 1 ATP 250).

Now tell me, who do you think deserves to be no 1: Roger or Novak?

Well… Novak so far. But if you add another 500, another Masters 1000 and the YET to Fed, there really is a strong argument for the Swiss.

October 13th, 2014 at 3:36 am

I belive that Federer will try to win Basel, play a couple of consistent matches in Paris, and go for broke at London. By winning both tournaments, even if djokovic wins Paris, he will have the chance to secure the world number 1 by winning davis cup. Lets be honest, if Federer cannot win the WTF he will not finish as world number 1. But if your 2014 resume is: WTF, Wimbledon RU, 2 masters 1000 (3 RU), 2 atp 500, 1 ATP 250 AND davis cup, i think that nobody should argue that the year en number 1 is well deserved.

October 13th, 2014 at 8:09 am

The player that ends the year,will be the player thats accumulated enough points and been the most consistent player throughout the year,if Federer does it without winning a GS then fair enough,why hold it against him when the WTA have many players that have done exactly the same thing,and Fedderer is not exactly Wozniaki,Safina,Jankovic etc,it would be unusual for him,the press one year asked Serena if she saw herself as the real number 1 and she said no,i see myself as number 2,as she didnt care about the ranking,i saw that as her saying what have i got to prove,IMO same with Federer really 1 or 2 hes got nothing to prove either….

October 13th, 2014 at 8:36 am

Wozniacki said when asked about the world number 1 ranking without the benifit of winning a GS,and she said well dont blame me as i dont make the rules….

October 13th, 2014 at 8:38 am

Ngentiteit.
excuses me.

the nonsens is in you.

People are claiming year end#1 should be a slamwinner.
if so there are four candidates. I happen tot find the Cilic slam the most complete andere impressive performance.

October 13th, 2014 at 8:42 am

Like “Humble Rafa” – Nadal is fake too. In Nadal dictionary
“out of form” means knee injury, wrist injury, appendicitis and probably Ebola for his retirement.

October 13th, 2014 at 8:46 am

Off topic but Stan impressed me more than Cilic,as he went through both Djokovic and Nadal to win his first GS,although Marin beat a 17 GS champion,still not the issue here….

October 13th, 2014 at 8:56 am

Is the moonball shot the reason for the lopsided h2h??
—
The so-called Arrogant Goat can’t return moonballs. Imagine that!

October 13th, 2014 at 9:19 am

All slam winners are impressive but anybody who beats 2 or more of the top 3, especially # 1 & 2, is a more difficult proposition. Wawrinka’s win is more impressive. Which will give you more confidence competing against in your first slam finals? Nishikori or Nadal?

October 13th, 2014 at 9:24 am

Polo exactly,Cilic i would say at it easier,not easy but easiierr….

October 13th, 2014 at 9:28 am

Federer leads the tour this season in match wins (61), Top-10 wins (13) and final appearances (nine) So it’s not surprising he is where he is in the ranking.

If he does get to #1 I’m sure if asked he will say that he would have loved to have won it with a slam but things are what they are. If anything it will spur on the others to not take this 33 yr old for granted in 2015.

Talent like Roger’s is not something we are going to see for quite a while . Embrace the spectacle , it will be gone soon!

October 13th, 2014 at 9:44 am

an injured Nadal is not so impressive.

October 13th, 2014 at 10:15 am

Humble Rafa Says:
Is the moonball shot the reason for the lopsided h2h??
–
The so-called Arrogant Goat can’t return moonballs. Imagine that!

October 13th, 2014 at 9:19 am
—————–
The so called excuse master cannot chip n charge, cannot serve and volley , doesn’t posses many tennis skills and makes up for the lack of variety by running.

October 13th, 2014 at 10:31 am

@DC yeah Rafa has beaten the GOAT of infinity and the larger universe 23 times by moonballing constantly. and the said GOAT of the entire universe hasn’t got wise to that one stroke sabotaging his infinite genius. Oh ha,ha, ha (and I like Roger by the way..but your comments really are a joke). As for Sienna, am SO impressed by your clairvoyance, astonishing medical credentials and so on which clearly weigh on you so heavily that they affect your ability to spell the simplest word or construct the simplest sentence. why not lie down for a while as all that brainpower is clearly getting you down.

October 13th, 2014 at 10:38 am

Lmao: a whole lot of justifications being flung around lol! I see it like this to be honest: Fed gets number one it’s only because the maths worked out in his favour. That’s what determines the ranking. Simple, all move on. Do I think he’ll be number one? It depends on 2 things: 1- what Djokovic does till end: that’s never good when you depend on others, especially your direct rivals results. Who knows: this might motivate Novak to clean sweep at Paris and WTF. He’s done it before is extremely capable and I think if he’s switched on he’s the main to beat in both. Like he was in Shanghai. 2- fed achieving great results wins or finalist at least: that’s not a given. He’s playing great but as USO showed: only takes one match to come crashing back down at this stage of his career. To put a streak of A grade results is not easy or a given at 33. Period. He had to only win 2 matches at USO post Djokovic’s exit to win a slam without facing a single top 10 player. He won none. Got straight setted. Shows you that just because a great opportunity exists it does not mean Fed takes advantage of it. Who I reckon will nab it? Too many variables and not something I am too fussed about. IF Fed takes it though I hope he has done so by winning at least 2 of Paris, WTF or DC since for me- personally speaking- a none Slam winner or major title winner being YE no.1 is crappy look for the tour. It’s WTA stuff not ATP. Just my own opinion on that, especially when you consider for many a year now the YE no.1 has not only won a Grand Slam in the season but most of the time genuinely dominated it would be a bum note should the number one have not done either. Novak though has won a Slam and also won 3 Master series: should he perform like he can he’ll be a fantastic number 1. Lets face it: had it not been due to personal reasons we would all back him right now for a reason: he’s the better player out of the 2 on a general basis right now.

October 13th, 2014 at 10:42 am

Now that I read so many resentful remarks if Federer becomes number one this year, I really hope Federer does end up at number one for 2014. It would be a hell of a discussion here if that happens. The sour grapes will be even sourer than usual. The sourer it is the sweeter it will be for Federer and his fans.

October 13th, 2014 at 11:22 am

@Polo
‘The sour grapes will be even sourer than usual.The sourer it is the sweeter it will be for Federer and his fans.’

so Federer is so childish he gets off on other fans’ misery? I really don’t think so and I don’t think he would thank you for taking his name in vain by making these silly claims. It really has been a privilege to watch the extraordinary matches between Rafa and Roger and the great spirit and friendship between 2 great people and champions. I find the level of vitriol expended by some ‘fans’ truly extraordinary. Why should appreciating the genius of one exclude the appreciation of the other? If Roger gets the number one ranking fair enough…but it really stinks when people make snide and derogatory comments about the injury and suffering of others. Oh and moralising about these injuries as if they were the ‘fault’ of the person involved is pretty dubious and isn’t exactly borne out by long-term history. Players of completely different playing styles have suffered injury and most of it is down to luck. Moralising the relationship is pretty unpleasant in itself.

October 13th, 2014 at 11:36 am

I think a big factor in the year-end ranking may be when baby Djoker is born and how much Papa Djoker wants to play around the time of his first born. At least the tournaments around then will be in Europe so it would give him more options to play.

October 13th, 2014 at 11:38 am

@dc
Lol @ 10:31 post ;)
—
Moonballing? Rafa’s moonballing tactic failed big time against Nole during a period of frustration during the time when Rafa lost 7 finals in a row to Nole. Fed hasn’t lost because of Rafa moonballing him. Never saw that. What he does do consistently over and over again is hit one shot high to Feds BH, which Fed has diffficulty with at times, thus opens up the court. Rafa also can pull Fed out wide on the add side with his serve. Those 2 shots usually gives Rafa the edge.
Fed has won some matches against Rafa also, and given him a few bagels in the process, so?
Its all about matchups when it comes h2h for these types, cause thats all they got. Too bad for these types…. h2h doesn’t win you titles and tournaments. Being ABLE to play and then win against a FIELD of players does. And no one has done it better than the Maestro over a career.

October 13th, 2014 at 11:45 am

@Dc……….You say: “The so called excuse master can’t chip and charge, can’t serve and volley, doesn’t possess many tennis skills and makes up for the lack of variety by running”……Are you kidding me? Then you tell me how this guy won 14 grand slams and countless other titles if he’s such a bad player. Your comment is one of the funniest I’ve ever seen regarding Rafa’s prowess on the tennis court……I can see why Skeezer laughed out loud at the comment, I did too…….it was rather funny.

October 13th, 2014 at 12:21 pm

@Skeezer 12:21

Appreciated your explanation of “moonballing” and how it impacts the game of both Fed and Novak. Mechanics of the tennis I’m at a loss on…..so thanks!

@Alice

Good posts at 10:38 and 11:36…..I get you!!

October 13th, 2014 at 12:30 pm

A wimbledon final,US open semi-final,Australia open semi-final for a 33 is more than enough for me.For those who said other players are suffering of injuries, or no matter what,and RF is taking advantage of such situation I would said they’re (these players) building there skills on force nothing more or less so they just can’t be on top for a long time like RF did for a 4 consecutive years.If you’re not enjoying federer playing and coming with insane points and incredible improvisations you’re having a serious problem.

Just enjoy him playing and keep silly ideas for your selves,it’s gonna be a terrible loss once he retires

October 13th, 2014 at 12:33 pm

Rafa is far from done. he will get more slams then Fed if he can get 2 next year.
when he only gets Garros then they might draw. if Garros doesnot happen then Rafa wont reach 17 slams.
So AU OPEN is gigantic because I feelaten Nadal is planning for that slam.
he and his team want to bring home AU Open followed by Garros……

Of course that means he could not give a sheit about year end and it’s #1.
Roger must be aware. ….

October 13th, 2014 at 12:35 pm

@Okiegal. thanks for that. what is your take on Rafa’s situation at the moment? I am so worried about him and it really has been one hell of a year for anxiety and worry. and that so soon after the last long lay off. I really wish he would have the surgery now…he’s not going to win any matches playing in this state and it will surely jeopardise his capacities for preparing for AO if he waits. I was delighted when he pulled out of the exhibition matches to prepare for next year but this situation is far far worse and I can’t understand his thinking..seems like pure stubborness on his part.

October 13th, 2014 at 12:37 pm

and considering h2h he needs foothsoldiers like Cilic to blow Rafa out of AuOpen or can he somehow stop the Bull himself.

October 13th, 2014 at 12:46 pm

@sienna :I thought we’re watching tennis not a task force for Slams!!when watching a tennis match I’m expecting amazing points,genuis onces also (the thing that differs Roger from the others) not only hitting a ball with force and running behing it like a fool.

October 13th, 2014 at 12:48 pm

Tennis is an art more than anything else, in fact that’s the way I’m taking it.

October 13th, 2014 at 12:51 pm

@Alice…..I think we have to know and realize that Rafa is in the best of hands. Apparently he must have had a CT scan and the appendix didn’t show to be too swollen that surgery was immediate. He will have to have it done at some point, but I do feel like you, I think he should do it now so he could be healing in time for Australia. I guess the end of year is most important for him. We will see. Yeah, he’s had his ups and down this year, but he is resilient and has the ability to bounce back! Gonna be interesting, no?? Nice chatting with you!

October 13th, 2014 at 12:54 pm

@Abdelhak.

‘not only hitting a ball with force and running behing it like a fool.’

I take it that by ‘behing’ you mean behind?
how are you supposed to run in relation to a ball? in front of it? that would be pretty difficult. even the mighty Fed hasn’t mastered that art. as for the ‘fool’ part which by definition if you include the running behind it has to include everyone – it takes one to know one doesn’t it, so congratulations.

October 13th, 2014 at 12:55 pm

@Okiegal. thanks for that. yes I guess I should try to stop fretting so much but it is difficult.
I do like other players…Nole, Fed, Delpo..really longing for Delpo to be back..but Rafa lights up the game so much that his loss is very very hard to bear. Maybe he will change his mind after taking stock at home..it just doesn’t seem rational to jeopardise his preparations for AO by playing tournaments which are of little importance by comparison and which he’s not going to win anyway. Nice chatting with you as well!!

October 13th, 2014 at 1:01 pm

tennis is more then moonballing or attacking tennis.

nadal won 4 slams and played finals in slams out of his comfortzone.
which is only possible when you have attained skill and greatness.

October 13th, 2014 at 1:04 pm

@alice. I’m sorry that you don’t know how to read. Should I explain to you my post about sour grapes in detail or would you ilke to try and figure it out yourself first?

October 13th, 2014 at 1:06 pm

@Polo. I can read fine thanks..if I did need lessons in grammar, syntax and semantics I wouldn’t be going to you.

October 13th, 2014 at 1:11 pm

What’s the big fuss over year end #1? However it plays out, it will be according to the rules, won’t it? There’s nothing that can be done about rules. If it is Fed, so be it…..well deserved, but I think it will be a tough task. Novak’s baby will be born soon, and trust me on this, that will come into play big time, especially if Jelena has a post pregnancy condition called “baby blues”. I hope not…some new mothers go through it and some don’t. I did and it was not fun. But good luck to both of them on the impending birth…..it’s a life changer for sure. Fed mixes fatherhood with career so I’m confident Novak can do the same……babies are precious, but they don’t belong at a tennis match……I remember how a crying baby can bring out the worst in a person……David, are you listening?? LOL

October 13th, 2014 at 1:13 pm

@Alice…..I’m supposing Polo is a man, and you know how some think they have to explain everything to a woman, like we don’t have enough sense to come in out of the rain…..I live with one that is just like that, but I do love him in spite of it. He’s got so many other great qualities that overrides that. I wonder if Polo does?

October 13th, 2014 at 1:22 pm

@alice, you may be able to read but how is your comprehension and interpretative skills? Because if they were any good, you would have been able to understand the meaning of my post instead of unnecessarily blowing off your gasket. Firstly, find out what sour grape means then reflect on my comment you were enraged at. If you would follow my advice, you will be a happier person.

October 13th, 2014 at 1:24 pm

People please.

You’ve turned into a bunch of trolls in here.

Can you not just acknowledge that Rafa and Roger are both brilliant players?

As for predictions, who really knows? Did anyone pick Wawrinka to win the Australian Open? Could anyone have come up with Cilic as the US Open Champ?

If you go back over the threads and the posts the only thing one sees more idiotic than the countless drivel about who is going to win what is the continuous drivel about how inferior Nadal is to Federer or vice versa (which means the other way around, ie: how inferior Federer is to Nadal).

Nadal trolls are going in about how Federer should not be #1 at year’s end because he doesn’t currently lay claim to a Slam Trophy?

Really? If slams are so important then until Nadal passes Federer in total slams shut the hell up. You can’t have your cake and eat it too.

Meanwhile Federer trolls in here criticize the style and tactics Nadal uses to win matches, especially against right handers with one handed backhands.

Really? So what? Rafa uses whatever he needs to win and he should be applauded for it. Variety is part of the game and winning is what matters. So what if “moon ball tactics” work? They also worked for a guy named Borg a few decades ago.

Give it a rest, h8ers. It is REALLY tiresome.

October 13th, 2014 at 1:27 pm

@Gordon

I appreciate everything you posted @1:27. Both fan bases have trolls…..Good post! Why can’t we just all agree to disagree and move on…..both are amazing players!! Dread it when they hang it up. This rivalry has been fantastic…..I’ll throw Novak into the mix too. When these three compete with each other, you know you are in for some of the best tennis ever! Love to watch them play, and Andy too, when he’s on target!

October 13th, 2014 at 1:42 pm

I always cheer for any member of the Big 4. Federer first, of course. If Roger cannot win, I want any of the other 3 to take it, preferably Andy so he can inch closer with the rest. I want those four to stay on top forever. (Hopefully, no reader will take that last word literally)

October 13th, 2014 at 1:55 pm

“a whole lot of justifications being flung around lol! I see it like this to be honest: Fed gets number one it’s only because the maths worked out in his favour.”

This doesn’t make sense. The math worked out in his favor? As in, he won a lot of matches and several tournaments while making it deep in most of the big events therefore accumulating a lot of points that puts him in a position to have more points than anyone. There’s no way around it. Federer didn’t trick the system. No one added anything extra or subtracted from Djokovic and Nadal for no reason. Yes the math is certainly working out in his favor.

I just want to be clear that I don’t think it’d be good if the year end number 1 didn’t hold a slam during that year. And I think it’s crazy that Federer is ahead of not one, not two, but three players who HAVE won slams this year. But it’s not his fault they haven’t put up consistent enough results. It’s the “ATP Tour”. Not “Only the Slams Matter and Everything else is Irrelevant”.

Federer has played extremely well all year. He’s been consistent and has a few big titles as well as a lot of semis and finals. And, even though we all know h2h isn’t the most important stat, he does have the most top 10 wins on the year. He’s simply done as well as he could and if he’s rewarded for it more than we think he deserves, that’s not his fault.

It’s not his fault a prime Djokovic can’t take advantage of a weak field and dominate on his best surface. It’s not his fault Murray is recovering from back surgery. It’s not his fault Nadal can’t play a full season. The “math” didn’t work out in his favor, he simply won the most matches and accumulated a ton of points as a result.

October 13th, 2014 at 2:01 pm

@Polo…..I don’t need to follow your patronising advice about anything thank you. Are you a man who gets off on talking down to women as a matter of course because that’s what you sound like? oh and I don’t like blowing my own trumpet but I think my aptitude in relation to hermeneutics is sufficient to keep up with your razor like wit and observations.
being a happier person for following your advice is so superior as to be utterly laughable. how on earth can you write such rubbish with a straight face..or is that you being a card? if so many congratulations.

I think I’ve made it more than clear also that I like both Rafa and Roger and also Nole and Delpo. I don’t care about the number one ranking much..just want Rafa to be healthy and well.

October 13th, 2014 at 2:02 pm

ben, there was an article at tennis channel about not having a slam and being #1. i’m just posting the link; don’t shoot the messenger!! :)

http://www.tennischannel.com/news/NewsDetails.aspx?newsid=14495

personally way back when safina was #1 sans slam, i defended her because on the year, she was the most consistent, had the most points, and thus was #1. it wasn’t down to just winning a big event, i.e., a slam. but a lot of people didn’t feel that way.

October 13th, 2014 at 2:10 pm

some here are speculating about nole’s baby, the so-called “x-factor,” ha ha. from what i know, jelena is due soon and should deliver the baby before end october. nole will not play basel as far as i know, but he will likely play paris and london. paris depends on the date the baby is born, though. the way i see it, there’s a very good chance nole will lose number 1. but he’ll gain a daughter or son. life’s all about trade-offs.

October 13th, 2014 at 2:13 pm

Good article. And I agree. It’s through consistency and not supremacy that Federer could get number 1. But it’s not like anyone else was particularly supreme throughout the year. Djokovic had just enuogh spurts and should end number 1. But if he doesn’t it’s his fault.

October 13th, 2014 at 2:27 pm

“So what if “moon ball tactics” work? They also worked for a guy named Borg a few decades ago.”

LOL, Borg a moonballer? Sorry Dude, Borg wasn’t a moonballer. You’re confused. To add, the those “tactics” Rafa used did not work when he attempted it.

October 13th, 2014 at 2:36 pm

yes, and clearly the distraction of the wedding/baby would be a big factor if nole can’t make it. he said himself that post-wimbledon win and then wedding he was not mentally “in it” for the north american masters, and now he has the birth of his child to think about and prepare for. it’s also his first year with boris and i think there are still issues there; it’s a good partnership but not great so far.

October 13th, 2014 at 2:38 pm

@Ben
Perfectedly said @ 2:01

October 13th, 2014 at 2:39 pm

It is odd that with the exception of Rios, all year end winners had won at least one slam.

But that just goes to show how well balanced the weight is for scoring points for each of the tournaments.

You want to ensure a GS winner is #1 at the end of a year then add more points to the slams, but to the winners total only. Instead of 2000 points make it 3000 points while keeping the RU at 1200. If you increase the RU points you run the risk of one player being the runner up in all 4 slams, losing to 4 different guys.

Hmmn – you know what? In my above scenario the runner up would have 4800 points while each of the slam winners would have 3000 each.

I know, let’s keep the RU at 1200 points but award the slam winner 1,000,000 points. That would do it.

Better yet, let’s leave it the way it has been for decades. If Fed winds up at number 1 at year’ s end he will lose it when points are tallied at the 2015 AO, unless he wins that, in which case everyone except the trolls will have no problem with the ranking system that’s now in place. 😊

October 13th, 2014 at 2:58 pm

Skeezer – the term “moon ball” was invented during the Borg Solomon era. Borg could – and did – use it on grass and on carpet.

I’m not confused; I’m old. I won’t change your diapers, but I will correct tennis revisionism.

October 13th, 2014 at 3:06 pm

The best article of the moon ball you will find closes with this –

“I would argue that this shot is effective on almost all surfaces. The only exceptions may be carpet and/or grass, although the great Bjorn Borg was able to hit effective, high, topspin groundstrokes off this latter surface with ease.”

http://www.tennisserver.com/turbo/turbo_09_02.html

October 13th, 2014 at 3:10 pm

Rafa and moon balling: seriously the ignoramus need to give it a rest on that one. So he did it a few times and now apparently it’s all he does. Are folks really that ridiculous in their slurs? Federer’s shanked some shots in a ridiculous manner on some big points in his time: are we now going to say he bottles it on the big points v certain players? Of course not. At the end of the day: Fed is seen as GOAT in the game: it’s idiocy to criticise him. Rafa has won 14 Grand Slams at worst- by major consensus- by the time he’s done he’ll likely be no.2 by popular consensus, already being regarded as top 5 of all time. And the one guy infront of him: he’s universally seen as atleast being his equal when out on court with him considering the results between them in matches. So again: it’s close to buffoonish to knock his status. Going forward: Rafa good luck with the appendicitis issue- get it dealt with. Roger: good luck in the fall. Folks here: chill out, let the BS slide!

October 13th, 2014 at 3:21 pm

tennis has nothing to do with art or beautifull points. winning/losing is the name of the game.

and the funny thing you have to win in order not to loose.
and it so happend the game of tennis has created aan platform where those aspect wanting to win but als not wanting to loose brought by the dominators in tennis.
otherwise Fognini would be aan top 3 playboy.

October 13th, 2014 at 3:26 pm

People have problem with moonballs? Go out there and play. If moonballs can make you win points, you’ll be stupid not to use them just because some people don’t find them beautiful. If an spectator wants to look at art and beauty, a museum is the place to go.

October 13th, 2014 at 3:34 pm

Sienna – can you reread what you type before you post? Your comments are unreadable.

October 13th, 2014 at 4:04 pm

“A moonball is a groundstroke that is hit with massive topspin, passes over the net a very high “altitude,” and lands usually close to the opponent’s baseline. In a very real sense, the moonball is a topspin lob, but when hit properly, the moonball has more spin and more pace.”

@Gordon,

Sorry dude, that was not Borgs “persona”. Could he hit it? Yes. Was he known for it? No. He was known for heavy topspin of both wings, balls safely clearing the net with pace, and the ball ripping down into the court with the force of the topspin. Like the guy said ( USPTR…really? ) the moon ball is more like a topspin lob. Soloman…yeah I agree that was what he was known for primarily…but Borg? Time to change your diapers, and your on your own with that one..
BTW, this guy never mentioned once Borg was a moonballer, and no way Borg won 5 Wimbys by “moon balling. ”
This all really goes back to my initial statement, Rafa used it and failed. Thats it. Now it elevates to h “who invented Moonballing?”
Geez..

October 13th, 2014 at 4:19 pm

Michael Jackson?

October 13th, 2014 at 4:25 pm

Skeeze will be happy to lead a forum to define “moonballing”. That session will be followed by a session on “Hero Worship”, also by his Skeezeness.

October 13th, 2014 at 4:25 pm

Polo – Awesome 😛

Skeezer – Wow! You get insulting if anyone doesn’t agree with you. No wonder your comments had to be moderated a while back. Learned my lesson. Let Skeezee say whatever she wants and never contradict her. Amen.

October 13th, 2014 at 4:40 pm

@gordon,
Insulting? Your the one who mentioned diapers ;)
I am just firing back at your posts.\…hey we all can’t agree with every topic, can we? It’s all good. Maybe I just don’t like watching moon balling …but moonwalking….not that’s exciting!

October 13th, 2014 at 4:58 pm

Alice have to say Polo is one of the nicest and fairest fans on this forum,he might disagree with posts sometimes,but always does it in a respectfull manor.
Gordon your right there are trolls and nasty posters coming from both fan groups.

October 13th, 2014 at 5:32 pm

Alice have to say Polo is one of the nicest and fairest fans on this forum,he might disagree with posts sometimes,but always does it in a respectfull manor.
Gordon your right there are trolls and nasty posters coming from both fan groups.

October 13th, 2014 at 5:32 pm

Have to say i nearly fainted when i heard Sienna actually defending Rafa….

October 13th, 2014 at 5:34 pm

Thanks, Hippy Chick. You are a most pleasant person to deal with and I don’t want to make a liar out of you, so I will try to be nicer. If you read the post that Alice was not happy about, it was clearly directed towards sour grapes who would always complain when something good happens to somebody other than the player they admire. In that particular context, those who resent the possibility that Federer could end up as number one without a slam. She made me sound like a mean person who would even drag Federer’s name “in vain”. Those who deal with players fairly should not have been bothered by it. But that’s in the past now and I’m back to square one.

October 13th, 2014 at 5:56 pm

Now let’s move on to the next topic. Anything ineresting going on?

October 13th, 2014 at 5:57 pm

I’ll start a new topic.

I think all will agree that Federer – based on his play this year – belongs in the “Big X”. But… What number should X be?

I am almost afraid to say Big 3 (with Nadal and Djokovic) for the Murray supporters will accuse me if being excluding. But with his mediocre play gees past 15 months, does Murray deserve to be a part of a Big 4, with Fed, Nole and Rafa?

Thoughts?

October 13th, 2014 at 6:56 pm

Thoughts? If you’re happy and you know it, clap your hands. (clap, clap)
If you’re happy and you know it, clap your hands. (clap, clap)
If you’re happy and you know it, and you really want to show it,
If you’re happy and you know it, clap your hands. (clap, clap)

October 13th, 2014 at 8:03 pm

What’s with this moonball thing going on here out of nowhere ?
I think we all can agree with ” There is kryptonite for every Superman ” :)
Meanwhile, who wants to see roger vs rafa in Basel ?
I certainly do. At least they are certain to meet each other somewhere in tour finals hopefully.
I hope rafa can play well in rest of the tournaments. It could be a 3 horse race for world no. 1 mathematically as well :)

October 13th, 2014 at 11:46 pm

@jatin

Dc started it on a post Oct 12 at 7:02 pm…..putting Rafa down and it grew from there! I learned some things about moonballing I never knew….a guy named Solomon used it in his game…..whoever he is, never heard of him……one poster said Rafa had failed in using it….that really was news to me because I watched AO 2014 SF between Rafa and Roger just last week and Rafa was killing Roger with it. It’s just always pick on Rafa day on here…..My 2 cents. One more thing, if the moonball was in Roger’s bag of tricks it would be the greatest thing since sliced bread….My 4 cents worth (total)……LOL

October 14th, 2014 at 12:10 am

@Gordon
Fed had back problems last year and even some of his fans were writing him off. Now look at him! Let’s resume this conversation, re Andy, this time next year :)
@Okiegal
There was I thinking “moonballing” was just a way of getting the ball over the net and winning the point…silly me ;)

October 14th, 2014 at 2:09 am

@Margot ^^^^^ tee hee….yeah, silly of bofus (do you like my 3 words all rolled into one?) LOL. You’re funny, I do appreciate your humor…..not a lot on here these days.

Your remark about Fed and his problems last year and a lot of his fans writing him off…..you are so right. I brought up the same thing and you’d have thought I made it up…..not one fan admitted to it. I decided I had dreamed it! So thanks for bringing that point up, at least I know I haven’t totally lost it!! Lol

October 14th, 2014 at 2:45 am

@ Hippy Chick. What is respectful about telling someone they can’t read and patronising them? If he thought I had misunderstood him then he could just have said so. I am not just a Rafa supporter…I like Nole, Roger and Delpo…and if Roger gets the #1 ranking then fair enough!!

October 14th, 2014 at 8:30 am

Alice fair enough,i cant speak for Polo as only he knew what he meant,hes a Federer fan thats respectfull of Rafa,Novak and all the other players achievements,as i say he can speak for himself,buts hes always very fair as are you,and i do enjoy your posts too,sorry didnt mean to interfere….

October 14th, 2014 at 9:03 am

@Hippy Chick…thanks and no need to apologise!! It’s good to talk to Rafa fans who like other players and don’t police one for doing so. I heard that Rafa is practising for Basle!! I really wish he would just consign this part of the year to the proverbial dustbin and have the operation so he can get ready for AO. This is the worst part of the year for him even when healthy so I can’t see it being anything other than a disaster for him. Sorry to be negative..I am just so worried and miserable on his behalf.

October 14th, 2014 at 9:11 am

You guys! I go away and come back after a while and find Bizarro world here on Tennis-X!

What has happened?

Rafa fans arguing that you cannot be the best without winning slams and Roger fans arguing being the best is not just about slams!

It just goes to show we make up our own rules to suit our personal fan bias.

Leave it to the amazing Roger to turn the world upside down!

Congrats to his amazing year I would say, and to the haters?

mew

Can’t we all just get along? What fun would it have been without the Great Roger Federer or PhenomeNadal?

Cheers to both champions! May their greatness continue for as long as possible! It will be sadly missed when it is gone.

October 14th, 2014 at 10:25 am

Fed didn’t win a slam but he came awfully close. Given his tenni pedigree, I’d have no issue with him being the year-end No.1, even if he couldn’t punch his GS ticket. I actually thought he outplayed Novak at Wimbledon but in a fifth set, it’s anyone’s ball game.

October 14th, 2014 at 12:33 pm

@Gordon – since you started a new topic…It depends on how you want to define “Big 4.” The term Big 4 was in use before Murray ever won a slam, due to his consistency in making the semis and finals in Masters 1000 tournaments (and winning a bunch of those) as well as the grand slams. If you compare his record against other members of the top 20 (not counting Fed, Rafa, and Djoker), his number of titles, runner-up finishes, and semifinal appearances are way higher than those of Ferrer, Tsonga, DelPo, Berdych, etc. Also, that use of the term Big 4 takes into account that Murray was consistently part of the last 4 in the big tournaments along with the other 3 guys.
Now if you are just looking at title wins, sure, Murray is not that close to Fed, Rafa, and Djoker. But he still has a lot more titles than the other guys in the top 20. So really, for me, it’s either Big 4 and the rest, or Big 3 and Murray and the rest.

Of course, this year has been different than the past several years, due to Murray’s return from back surgery. I may re-evaluate my opinion next year depending on how he performs in 2015. (Hopefully, he’ll come out of his funk and be back in the top 4 rankings).

October 14th, 2014 at 1:14 pm

Not sure where to post this……the Italian dubs team of Bracciali and Starace in trouble for match fixing….the article said “once again”….

October 15th, 2014 at 2:00 pm

Stronzos!

October 17th, 2014 at 6:32 am