Novak Djokovic Crushes Andy Murray In Shanghai; Rafael Nadal Sent Off By Jo-Wilfried Tsonga
by Staff | October 17th, 2015, 4:25 pm

Novak Djokovic kept his foot on the gas pounding Andy Murray today 6-1, 6-3 in the semifinals at the Shanghai Masters. It was one of Djokovic’s best performances against his longtime rival who he now leads 20-9 winning 8 of the last 9.

“It’s the best match of the tournament at the right time against a player who was in form and one of my biggest rivals,” said Djokovic. “He’s a player I lost to a couple months ago in the Montreal final. Obviously there was a lot at stake. Whenever we play against each other, it’s always exciting. It’s always a huge challenge. But I was ready. I came in from the very first point with the right intensity, played great, on a very high level.

“I had a very high first-serve percentage throughout the entire match. He had a very low one. I think that also made a difference in terms of the scoreline.”

Murray wasn’t terrible, he just couldn’t compete with the Serb.

“It was tough,” said Murray. “I’m obviously disappointed with the way I played. I served poorly in the first set especially. You can’t afford to do that against Novak with the way he’s playing just now, the amount of confidence he has in his game, and the conditions over here. You have to do better than that.

“I made it extremely difficult for myself. I just couldn’t get myself in it. Even the second set, got that break at the beginning and was hoping to kick on a little bit. Just didn’t serve well at all tonight. It was tough.”

In the final Sunday, Djokovic will test Jo-Wilfried Tsonga who ended Rafael Nadal’s hopes with a 6-4, 0-6, 7-5 victory.

“I’m really happy to work hard because I know I can count on my body,” said Tsonga. “It’s something great for me because it was not always like this. Today I’m a lot stronger than I was maybe a few years ago.”

Despite the loss, Nadal had a good run in Asia reaching the Beijing final and beating Top 10 players this week.

“I lost against a player who played very well,” said Nadal. “I congratulate him. He was a little bit better than me and that’s why he is in the final.

“In general, it has been a very positive two tournaments, [reaching the] final and semi-finals in tournaments that are not easy for me. I was able to win a lot of matches, but not only win matches, but play at a very good level again. I think it has been one of the most positive two tournaments in a row on hard court of the year without a doubt. The feelings are that I am getting better and better.”

Tsonga, though, is just 6-13 against Djokovic. He did beat Novak in their most recent meeting at 2014 Canada.

“I feel good. To be honest, the season was difficult with a lot of ups and downs,” Tsonga added. “This surface is one of my favourites. I know I’m able to play good tennis. Before I came here, I didn’t know if I will be able to play that good. I hope it’s going to continue.”

Djokovic has won his last 16 matches and 20 straight sets. And he’s seeking a 25th Masters title and 57th of his career. It’s his seventh Masters final of the season and 13th straight final in a tournament.

“He’s a very enthusiastic player. He feeds on the energy of the crowd a lot. He’s very powerful, big serve,” said Djokovic of Tsonga. “I think his game heavily relies on the serve. If he has a high first‑serve percentage, he’s managing to get some free points there. Then he’s dangerous.”

Djokovic is 9-0 lifetime in ATP finals in China and he’s won 37 of his last 38 in the country. The “Big Four” of Djokovic, Federer, Murray and Nadal have won 46 of the last 50 ATP Masters 1000 tournaments, which dates back to Nadal’s triumph at Monte-Carlo in 2010.

Tsonga’s appearance in the championship match moves him into contention for a spot in the ATP Finals in London next month. He is bidding for his 13th career title, third at the Masters level.

STADIUM start 1:30 pm
[5] S. Bolelli (ITA) / F. Fognini (ITA) vs [6] R. Klaasen (RSA) / M. Melo (BRA)

4:30 pm
[1] N. Djokovic (SRB) vs [16] J. Tsonga (FRA)

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144 Comments for Novak Djokovic Crushes Andy Murray In Shanghai; Rafael Nadal Sent Off By Jo-Wilfried Tsonga

Humble Rafa Says:

I guess we have a new hero in the carpet/useless surface season. Somebody must be crying somewhere.

Angel Says:

I think you must be the one who is always crying.

mat4 Says:

There’s something that should be noted:

Novak and Rafa, win or lose, always first speak of their opponents first, how they played well, or how they had a bad (serving) day, etc.

Giles Says:

Sean Randall. Am just wondering if you should open a thread along the lines of ” Poll : who thinks tennis has become a bore fest with joker winning everything?”

Emily Says:

This is not looking good for Jo, unfortunately doesn’t look like I should stay up to watch

FedExpress Says:

just retire tsonga ffs

thank god stan saved tennis by winning RG

FedExpress Says:

worse than a wta final

poor quality. shows how much of a strong opposition nole faced this year

Travis Bickle Says:

“just retire tsonga ffs”

Come on federina!
At least Tsonga made a final and wasn’t beaten by a #70 player.
Cut him some slack.

Wog Boy Says:

No1e’s Asian swing


Vami Says:

Novak made Jo look like a servbot in the 2nd. Jo had to serve like crazy just to keep up.

mat4 Says:



Wog Boy Says:


BTW, this is Nole second triple double this year, IW/Miami and Beijing/Shanghai… what about indoor triple double, Paris/London ;)

Michael Says:

It is Master Series Crown No. 25 for the irrepressible Novak, the relentless Tennis Machine that is haunting the Tennis World as a colossus.

Well, Tsonga didn’t really play badly, but what can he do against a player on the other side of the court who is so much consistent and playing with so much passion, intensity, grit and determination ? The result ofcourse was a foregone conclusion and Tsonga really needed a miracle to beat Novak by playing outstanding Tennis. But, that is easier said than done and doesn’t happen often !!

Right now, Novak is miles ahead of the field and the distant No.2 is Andy who is more than 7,000 and odd points behind. There is no challenger in sight either and Novak pretty much dominates the field as no other player has done before and sky will be the limit for this Champion. His main worry right now is not in worrying about the competition which he has tamed in a very emphatic fashion, but only in keeping up his fitness levels which he has been successful so far and if he can do that on a consistent basis, then sky is the limit for him and he might even surpass Roger’s grand slam record if everything goes well !!

Michael Says:

Tsonga had to heavily rely on his serves to keep pace with Novak and once he missed the first serve, he was always in trouble. In these fast courts, if his serve is under such constant threat, then it just goes to show the returning prowess of the player who is in the opposite end. I think Novak is the greatest returner in the game – amateur as well as modern era considered !!

FedExpress Says:

“then sky is the limit for him and he might even surpass Roger’s grand slam record if everything goes well !!”

nothing will go well from next year on. but day dreaming is allowed.

Wog Boy Says:

Somebody needs a hug..

Michael Says:

FedExpress @ 6.44 am,

Are you so prescient ?? I also only used the word might, but you say quite authoritatively from your end to negate it !!

J-Kath Says:

Well, Noel Fans – well done for Nole – another stunning success – I like both Nole and Jo – so was quite tranquil today. Nole’s having a tremendous year – in doing so it actually will be Nole v Nole in 2016!.

Wog Boy – I take it you are supporting Scotlannd this afternoon – after all Gypsy Gal has chosen!!!

Wog Boy Says:

Can I tell you tomorrow morning when I wake who I was going for;) it is almost 11pm now and I am really tired.

Wog Boy Says:

These two things don’t go together”

“poor quality. shows how much of a strong opposition nole faced this year”

“nothing will go well from next year on. but day dreaming is allowed.”

If first axiom is right than who is going to stop him next year? Make up your mind, you can’t have both, first axiom is negating second one, no?

mat4 Says:


In the name of the Auld Alliance… yes. I will even watch the match.

J-Kath Says:

I like it Mat 4. Unlikely that Scotland will win, but…we’ll see.

What happened to France? I used to love watching them in the 6-Nations – they had such verve and style + success…….

mat4 Says:

62-13 happened. Don’t remind me.

If at least they lost like men… fighting. Jo, today, in the second, he gave his best shot. It wasn’t enough, but at least he fought.

brando Says:

Lmfao: I don’t root for Novak at all nor am I fan of his but IF he somehow managed to surpass or match Federer the meltdowns on here would be priceless. The guy who was supposed to stop rafa from passing dearest rog and you rooted for him for that reason ended up being a naughty boy and usurped Fed himself. Lmao: it would be priceless. But that’s just a thought. Reality tells us asking a pro to win 6-8 slams after age 29 in men’s tennis is just idiotic. Novak will do well but ultimately: everything counts. And his years 2009,2010 and the underwhelming 2012, 2013, 2014 (slams count wise) will be a point of regret.

brando Says:

PS: just to be clear. The reason I say 2012,2013 and 2014 are underwhelming slam wise is since he won ONLY 3/8 finals which really is 9 since RG 13 SF was de facto final for virtually everyone. It’s undeniable he had a plethora of chances to win majors there and all he did was win one AO title aside from 2012 which was of the back of 2011 hurricane season and one more major where he faced a 33 year old in finals. Now I’m not knocking him for it. But truth is: he had some unbelievable chances to win atleast 4 more slams in that time. Add 4 now he’s on 14. All of a sudden Federer 17 looks a very, very, very achievable target. Hence why I say: EVERYTHING counts. He’ll do well but ultimately his past might come back and stop him from achieving his major targets.

Daniel Says:

Wow, if you look at Novaks breakdwon in the ATP page he has finals in all 500 and above tourneys, Holds 3 Slams and 1 final, WTF, 6 Masters and 2 finals, 1 500 and 1 final. Only Doha not a final. Best 52 weeks of all time. If he wins Paris and WTF best year of all time.

But in 2006 Masters finals and WTF were best of 5 finals which made ot harder tomwin back to back titles. Fed had 12 titlea and 92-5 for the year. Novak can only reach 83-5 and 11 titles. But even so, if he wins 6 Masters I rate 2015 better.

He can end the year with 1 masters shy of Nadal’s 27 record, 1 WTF shy of Federer’s 6 record and postoce HxH versis both Fed and Nadal if he draw Nadal in his quarters in Paris and facing one more time in London (at worst one more match with him to tie HxH).

Super year with 13 straight finals, how many more can he reach?!

Daniel Says:


Novak may not need to reach 17, maybe with 15-16 Slams amd other recorda of hos resume may will consider him GOAT over Fed.
I don’t have a problem with that at all because I like his game and he has the complete package.
Nadal OTOH, was targetinf 17 only by winning double digits RG titles. The argument that he is “second best” in other Slams outside Fed doesn’t hold anymore due to Djoko and even if Murrya start winnint outside RG will chamge that as well.

Giles Says:

Daniel does indeed talk sh*t. The same sh*t over and over again. Give it a rest man!

peter Says:

@brando, “Reality tells us asking a pro to win 6-8 slams after age 29 in men’s tennis is just idiotic.”

not sure, given the average age of the current top 10 is 29, implying novak (28) will be outlasting pretty much everybody except kei/raonic in this group. It also means players nowadays are peaking at 29, and novak at 28 could actually still be on an upward trajectory (very scary).

if you based predictions on historic records, then federer wouldn’t have 17 slams, and nadal wont have 9 RG. its impossible for a 29 year old to win many more slams just becoz nobody has done it before???

federer could have easily won 6-8 slams after 29 if nadal and djokovic didn’t exist. the biggest reason he hasnt won much these few years is due to strong competition in nadal/nole. Unlike federer, djokovic doesn’t have anybody of his calibre to supplant him. so as long as he stays healthy, 2-3 slams per year for the next 3 years is quite possible.

peter Says:


if nole takes year end no.1 record from sampras, and wks no.1 from federer, get positive h2h against nadal/fed, then he is probably the goat, even without getting to 17.

the above scenario is quite likely given how he is maintaining his health, and the current crop of young players. nole may well just win 1-2 slam per year next few years, but staying no.1 will be easier given no up and comers.

brando Says:

Lmfao: so many IF’s. IF’s this, IF’s that. Let’s just wait and see how it unfolds shall we? It’s not even 2016 yet, and already some are giving predictions for 2017, 2018. Idiotic thinking. Out.

jalep Says:

” Unlike federer, djokovic doesn’t have anybody of his calibre to supplant him. so as long as he stays healthy, 2-3 slams per year for the next 3 years is quite possible.”

In other words, in the context of the Federer weak era theory…we are heading into another weak era – the Djokovic weak era.

I disagree.

Gypsy Gal Says:

Hi Jalep left you a post on the other thread,just to say,when i replied to Mat4 on the night shift thing,i wasnt been rude,but just saying that i know how it feels,anyway congrats to Novak on another title….

jalep Says:

Came here to say Congratulations Nole!!

(But I get lost in the quagmire)

Gypsy Gal Says:

Congrats to Novak and fans on another title,Jalep,Jane,Mat4,Courbon,Michael etc etc,didnt actually see the final because of work,to say the guys having an amazing year is quite an understatement,nothing more to add really….

Gypsy Gal Says:

Forgot Wogboy sorry Wogboy ha ha….

jalep Says:

Ah Gypsy. We’re good as always :D
I’ll go read the other thread. Think I just slept 12 hours, if my clock is right.

Was dreaming about tennis though — sort of. lol, I was on a private jet with Fognini and Bolleli, he, heh..


Gypsy Gal Says:

Jalep he he nice dream the Sexy Italian,i wouldnt know what to name Bolleli hmm(scratches head)….

courbon Says:

I guess there is unhappy girl somewhere in Norfolk….
Thanx, GG
Jalep-I have almost identical tennis dreams!
It’s just on my private jet, air hosteses are Ana and Marija…while I drink bottle of Petrus with Novak and Nadal, playing poker together…Off course, Federer is a pilot ( steady, precise and safe-all you want from the good pilot! )

jalep Says:

Not making it up, courbon :D

I was there to be a nanny to Bolleli’s baby. Don’t know where his wife was or Flavia, for that matter.

Fognini was shocking!
Not the kind of dream you like waking up during. Immediately tried to get back to sleep in hopes of the sequel :D

Federer flying a jet? That could end badly.

Gypsy Gal Says:

Courbon your welcome,your dream saucy the blonde and the brunette….

skeezer Says:

Congrats to Nole and his fanbase. The guy is a Stud.

chris ford1 Says:

“FedExpress Says:
just retire tsonga ffs
thank god stan saved tennis by winning RG”

If Stan saved tennis by winning RG, surely you light votive candles to Nadal for saving tennis by blocking Fed from getting a Grand Slam.

J-Kath Says:

Giles – Now I know why I don’t have a Twitter account -comments belong in the fly squatting

Giles Says:

J-K .You mean like some of the comments on here?

courbon Says:

Jalep-Maybe you should cut down on tennis watching…
I disagree.Fed would be a great pilot!
Now, Monfils would be scary to fly with…( lets go up, lets go down, lets go up, lets go , this is fun!, lets go up, lets go down…ups! mountain…….merdaaaaaaa )

jalep Says:


What I take away from clicking on Giles’ link is Ian Somerhalder on Song’s twitter page. Sure loved him in “Lost”.

courbon Says:

J-kath-If I’m correct, twiter is design to have a limited number of words (140 characters, about 30 words right? ).Memory on internet is pretty much unlimited, so that is not a reason for that rule. I think most of twiter users could not put together more than two sentences, so Twiter could not be bother to increase memory rule…

jalep Says:

Not a chance of me cutting down on tennis, courbon.

If sleeping while having the tennis channel on inspires a subliminal tennis dream (woke up and Fognini Bolelli dubs match was on), I’ll stay tuned :D

Daniel Says:

brando, “for me your a clown poster regarding rafa who does nothing but just talk sh-t so save the tosh for others interested in that bile”

Replace “rafa” for Novak in your above post and it’s my sentiments towards you exactly.


No more s-%^t than you do ref Novak over and over again dude!

Daniel Says:


Agree, maybe he doesn’t even need to pass the #1 total weeks. For example, if he wins AO (he sure is the ultimate favorite there) and RG next year, he will have 4 in a row, something nobody did in 40+ years. That’s why posted that combined with his other results. But he sure is on a great path with balanced results everywhere.

Gypsy Gal Says:

Cant we all just get on,and just agree to disagree,its just a game when alls said and done….

J-Kath Says:

Giles – Would have replied – but Courbon said more or less what I would have said – in 2 words “twitter = litter”.

J-Kath Says:

Gypsy Gal – Hope you felt proud of wee Scotland who won but then didn’t win………….Wog Boy was most gracious – a good winner/loser as one might/might not say…

Gypsy Gal Says:

J-Kath yeah true lol….

courbon Says:

No GG, we cant.Lets have a war!It’s fun…

J-Kath: You should work for advertising companies.Great wording. Obviously, Twitter would not employ you but their rivals for sure…
Well, at least Scotland was fighting, not like my Frenchies….
Wog boy=gracious…? For some reason, those two words just do not go together,…(-:

jane Says:

why does discourse on here have to devolve into name-calling? can’t people just talk about tennis?

peter Says:


Lol if a person with 135 IQ has idiotic thinking, then 99% of the world are idiots. The whole point of these discussions are predictions and that’s what’s fun. Espescially predictions based theories drawn fron stats.


Yes we are heading into a weaker era, unless you think 2015 Djokovic has improved heaps this yr to explain why he won 3 slams instead of only getting 1 in the past 3 years. To me his improvement has been minimal compared to 2011~2014, while his biggest rivals decliNed a notch.
If you agree his rivals’ tennis declined, this implies weaker competition. Easy concept. Dominating a weaker era is just a fact and doesnt discredit a player, at least I don’t see it that way.

Gypsy Gal Says:

Jane exactly,so much for the moderation….

mat4 Says:

1. Novak has improved “heaps”… Just look at his movement, his court positioning. He has improved his serve, his FH, his transition game. He plays 5% better at least.

2. Luck factor: in 2012, 2013, 2014 — he missed 2 (or 2+) seasons by a few points. This year, he won those few points — because he improved just as much as he needed. A better serve at BP, no deaths in his family, no wind in the Ashe, more luck in the draws… it all helped.

The differences are so tiny. But even when we take luck in account, this was a really great season, and his level of play at Beijing and Shanghai was outstanding.

He is the best returner ever, the best mover ever, he has the best bh ever… and he’s good at everything else. He doesn’t need a weak era. And he didn’t benefited from a weak era anyway.

Wog Boy Says:

Daniel is a (witty) poster that have never ever used bad language in the years I am reading and posting on TX. I don’t necessarily agree with Daniel but I like his way of posting.

mat4 Says:

Then, there is this fixation with Novak place in the history of the game… As a Novak fan, I honestly believe that he is the best ever, and he doesn’t have to win 17 slams to be the best ever for me. But I understand that Fed fans don’t agree — why should they? And even if Novak wins 18 slams, it doesn’t make him better than Fed — like I wrote the other day, tennis has changed in the last 10 years so much, that comparisons are without much meaning.

The only thing we can compare is the level of dominance they showed at their respective peaks. The ELO, here, is a good indicator — they were at about the same level.

But it’s so irrelevant. They both played some outstanding brand of tennis, and made the game of tennis change, evolve and improve. Can’t it be enough?

elina Says:

For a fedfan, Daniel drags Nadal into more threads than any other. First one to do it on this thread too.

Not a Rafan? mmmmmmm….

Methinks he doth protest tooooo much!

Brando Says:


IQ scores? LOL Chief: let’s not get ridiculous and venture down that road.

Predictions? Crystal ball guessing games of the future?

To me that kind of crap is as wise as taking a p-ss out in a storm: The p-ss could land all over the place! Hence:

IF this, IF that= i’m not interested. Let’s just see how it unfolds:

Maybe Novak dominates. wins more slams.


Maybe he keeps having his fans saying how crap he’s playing pre final, then when he lands a 33, 34 year old in the final for 3/4 of his last slam wins its:

Incredible Nole. This guy is the truth.


Maybe the field up their game, produce the goods like a streaky wawrinka showed. It ONLY takes one event, one top tier performance to take a Slam. Who’s to say other’s cannot?


Maybe a few tough losses bring out the old wimpy novak. We’ve heard the saying: a leopard never changes it’s spot and it’s fair to say Novak isn’t exactly shy from cracking under the pressure.

Facts tell us he’s cracked 8 times in major finals, 8/13 in none-AO finals and when not playing pension age pros in finals:

6/8 last slam finals! That’s fact. And his meager reality is he was only talking of his mental woes a meager 15 months ago of his mental woes.

That’s his personal history.

Tour history tells us it gets tougher to win slams after age 29.

And someone ALWAYS emerges out of nowhere. Just look at Wawrinka: 2012= no one cared about him. Fast forward a few years= he’s clutching 2 slams.

A new guy can emerge (one eventually will anyhow), a elite player can find his form, a lesser player might pull a wawrinka, Novak might get injured, have a dip in form, whatever etc.

People do this ALL the time.

Fans, commentators, public are notoriously reactionary. They go OTT over the slightest development and start assuming because of A= z will occur.

It ain’t like that. So like I said:

Let’s just wait and see how it unfolds.

elina Says:

mat4, if he continues for just a bit longer, I tend to agree with you.

Winning the next two slams and holding all four at the same time, something that hasn’t happened since Laver and never with three slam surfaces, is the quickest shortcut to do so IMO.

Brando Says:

‘I honestly believe that he is the best ever’:

BOOM: puberty just hit mat4 age 90!

He finally got the balls to say what he really thinks rather than talk sh-t as per usual! Give this dinosaur a cookie, he’s earned it!

Brando Says:



The guy is fraud. A phony with pretensions about being impartial, yet the facts of his posting history show him to be nothing other than:

A whiny b-tch with a unabated hard on for Rafa.

He doesn’t like Rafa though. But something stirs him up to post 24/7 about him.

LMAO: dude’s a walking embodiement of self delusion.

Brando Says:

‘never with three slam surfaces’:


Rafa is the only tennis player to win 3 majors (clay, grass, hard), on 3 different surfaces and he did it all in a row, consecutively within the same calendar year:


mat4 Says:


Here, my bad English has probably distorted my view.

I wanted to say that, as a Nole fan, I am not impartial, not objective.

Yes, I am certain that the game has improved and changed lately, but “the best ever” is such a complicated question.

I wrote here a lot of posts about different angles of the evolution of tennis, about the technological shifts, the changes in organization (just as an example: the finals of the masters were played in the best of five format — how much did it impacted the results? we can’t really know), that it is a bit illusory to chase for the “best ever”.

A few players, when we watch from all the angles, are over the pack, but to decide among them… it’s difficult.

As a Rafa fan, I am certain that you could build a good case that Rafa is the GOAT. I wouldn’t agree, certainly, but some points would certainly be quite good.

If Novak wins four in a row… Let’s wait a bit. He hasn’t yet won three in a row. I don’t believe he will win more than three slams more, at most four, with some luck. But let’s wait and see.

There is a core of five, six players in the Open Era that could be the “GOAT”. Federer, Nadal, Borg, Djokovic, Laver, perhaps Sampras. Among them, it’s very difficult to chose.

You can always find a limitation, or a positive argument:

Sampras didn’t adapt enough to the new technologies and was inefficient on clay, Laver decided to play exos for money, Borg retired too young and never won the USO, Nadal wasn’t efficient enough on fast courts, Djokovic won less trophies, Federer has a bad H2H against Nadal, etc.


Sampras was 6 years no 1, Federer won 17 slams, Laver won the Grand Slam, Borg was utterly dominant when he retired, Nadal had a positive H2H against anybody…

But they all give us a lot.

elina Says:

Out of context Brando. Don’t be so quick to call somebody wrong.

I said holding all four slams at the same time on three different surfaces.

Never done before.

elina Says:

mat4, it depends on how you define best.

For me there will always be new GOATs as technology, training, technique evolves and improves.

It’s evolution baby!

mat4 Says:


It was a weak year in a strong era: Djokovic played without a serve, Federer had an abysmal year and was trying to change his game… So it was pure luck for Rafa, who, btw, has always been the luckiest player in the top. Not to mention that the draws were rigged, and the speed of courts at the USO slowed down just for Rafa to win it (both things are proven).

So… pure luck, and it doesn’t count, and weak era, and so forth, etc.

elina Says:

I for one believes that Nadal has a very strong argument for GOAT.

So does Roger and soon Novak within two years (but as soon as eight months) IMO.

I respect all of these opinions.

Markus Says:

How do you guys enjoy watching tennis when you overanalyze everything?

elina Says:

Yes draws were proven to be rigged according to a Serbian student who claimed it was done to benefit Roger.

ESPN also had a story that proved rigging for the Top 2 players (usually Roger and Nadal) at the US Open.

The speeds of all courts except the French slowed in the early 2000s.

All of Rogers slams were won on slower courts.

mat4 Says:


If the best isn’t a relative category, but an absolute one, I guess that — 1. Novak is the best ever, and that 2. in a few years, we will have another best ever.

But if the ITF imposes some limits to the development of new racquets and strings, perhaps we could be at the limits of the development of the game.

We will see.


You seem to be dyslectic.

jane Says:

c’mon brando: so far on this thread you’ve called other posters b*tches, nincompoops, & dinosaurs at least. can you please try not to call people names?

mat4 was very clear that novak is the best “for him”. what has that got to do with puberty? he’s merely saying that for him novak is goat, regardless of what else he wins. because, after all, our tastes are subjective. and fyi, he’s said it on here before.

and about 2010, rafa had only 11 top 10 wins in a year when he won 3 slams. that’s 11 for the whole year. and he played only 16 top 10 matches. that’s kind of amazing. he had two non-slam winning finalists (soda and berdych) and one 1-time slam winner at that time (novak). if we want to nitpick we can nitpick. he capitalized and won. all the power to him.

Daniel Says:

I posted rpobably the same amount ref Fed, Nadal and Djoko, who are the three top playera of the last 8 years so don’t understand the fuss about.

Seems I touched a nerve because from my perspective brando post a lot of Novak for a no fan. And by the cheer amount of linea he posta you probably outdated me since 2005 on how manu times I posted negative remarks ref Rafa. Haha

Thanks Wog Boy, I never understand why people have to resort to losing manners and personnel attacks on internet, must be some way of venting frustration…

And you elina, how many times have you posted on Fed or Djoko lately?! This hipocrisy amuses me sometimes.

I love tennis and they are the main focus, I will post about them as much as I want specially when I read something I disagree here or thinks worth posting. There is always someone interesting in way or another. This is democracy and unless you go under moderation you are allowed to post and discuss, this is the whole point of a forum.

mat4 Says:


You missed the irony of that post addressed to Brando.

But a few points: Katarina Pijetlovic is not Serbian, nor of Serbian origin. I am certain of that. WB, who knows better, will certainly confirm it.

And since you’re a newcomer, the “regularity” of the draw was noticed here, on this blog, already in 2009.

The courts of the USO were slowed down since 2011, and you can find the data on heavytopspin.

And, fyi, the draws are… directed, some schedules are… generous, etc. Tennis is not of sport of gentlemen.

Daniel Says:

Who brought Nadal to this thread and an attempt to dig at Fed fans was not me, I just responded to it.

Seems the tone of some rafa fans shifted this year, they are more “agressive” and the more diehard ones like Nadalista, Steve27, mem vanished completelly, wonder why?!

mat4 Says:


Don’t waste your time with Brando. Every single time I try to read any of his posts I think of Shakespeare, and one of his comedies — “Much ado about nothing”, of course.

It’s not that we are all geniuses here debating about the faith of the world, but we still can exchange the same opinions and chat a bit about tennis. A sequence of monologues, but it works.

mat4 Says:


What happen to Toninho Cerezo? He was one of my favourite players.

The team of Brasil from 1982 was the best team I ever watched, and I was so deceived when they didn’t win the Cup.

elina Says:

mat4, no I got the irony. It was hard to miss! :)

This Heavy Topspin article argues that there has been no convergence or homogenization of the courts as so many like to claim.

Tennis is a business first.

jalep Says:

Thanks for the response, peter @ 5:28 pm.

Very much as I guessed you’d answer, too.

just checking.

Not all posters use “weak era” in your manner. It’s been used as an intentional put-down for quite some years to diminish Federer’s prime.

Have been wondering if Djokovic dominates the same would apply to diminish his prime.

Same with Rafa’s domination of Clay Season – weak era on clay, yes. Ended in 2015.

Weak Era can be redefined as neither a good or bad thing and not used against a player who dominates, utterly dominates.

peter Says:


put it this way, i see some improvements in noles game, but not suffice to get 2 extra slams (compared to 1 in 12-14).

murray has not been the same player as the lendl years 2012-13.

nadal is nowhere near slam winning form this year.
he’s won 4 slams 2012-14.

federer, he’s still playing as well as say, 2012 WB, but nole improved and has a better grass game since 2014.

stan, same performance 2014-15.

so out of the big 4 rivals, 2 are down, and nole has got a little better, resulting in a dominating year.

elina Says:

I’m with Peter.

With random variability, it is completely natural that some stretches of years, eras or whatever you want to call it have differing levels of competitiveness.

mat4 Says:


I read it, of course.

I really don’t remember when, but it was decided to play with 6% bigger balls. It slowed down serve a bit. It didn’t really slowed down the baseline game — with new strings, you could hit much harder, but you could also control the ball better, so it simply changed the game.

I just found an article with links about the balls:

elina Says:

Sorry mat4 but I find articles written on Bleacher Report are largely written by fans and skewed by their abnormal bias that causes them to write tennis blogs.

Ball size is but one variable.

I trust Jeff Sackman’s Heavy Topspin much more. He just analyzes the numbers and presents the facts.

Wog Boy Says:

“proven to be rigged according to a Serbian student who claimed it was done to benefit Roger.”

To my knowledge, Katarina Pijetlovic is University professor, though she was a student before she became professor.

To my knowledge she is not Serbian nor she ever said she is of Serbian backround, you we all have same names but different ethnicity, Djokovic (Serbian), Raonic (Montenegrin), Cilic (Croatian) and so on.

Brando Says:


Go out for a while, return, check what’s going on in the madhouse and lo behold: Sh-t hits the fan and the inmates are throwing a hissyfit! LOL’s.

I won’t respond to all but on a general note:

It seems clear some are obsessed about these guys way more than I could ever be doing so. It seems like they live through vicariously through the feats of strangers who do not know them, and if they did would say ‘f-ck what a bore, get out of my sight you creep’.

They take this way, way too seriously to fill in the emptiness in their lives. I won’t mention names but:

Many here have in the past talked of how depressed, frustrated, sad in their lives they are. The way they deflate after a loss a few here through such a ridiculous fit that it makes one think how empty, tedious their lives really must be. So banal. Like I said, I won’t mention names but I honestly see that as true with facts of admission by some here, behaviour that strongly indicates as much also.

I’ll bear that in mind for future posts.

As for my foul few posts, honestly:

I just could not care less hence I posted foul.

Worst that can happen? I get banned. Oh, what a pity, what a shame, boo hoo, tears for Brando he doesn’t get to post with the dross on show here!Truth is:

This site hardly gives much good information. The writers don’t give a much insight. And then we have the posters:

the real draw.

So many here have meltdowns, post in cliques, are deluded and genuinely full of sh-t that honestly speaking:

I come here for the amusement they provide.

It amuses me seeing how ridiculous they get when their fav losses, how OTT they get when a player they detest succeeds, how b-tchy most of them generally are.

It’s just a laugh seeing their nonsense at times. Sue me for liking a chuckle. Now to address a few of the lightweights.

mat4 Says:

@peter, elina:

I started an extensive answer, but I wrote so much about it, it doesn’t make sense any more. You can find my previous posts here and there on this blog. Just a few comments:

“put it this way, i see some improvements in noles game, but not suffice to get 2 extra slams (compared to 1 in 12-14).”

The presupposition is that one has to improve to win more slams against the same opposition which is false. While there is a correlation between craft and results, the presupposition that the correlation is straightforward is also wrong.

“murray has not been the same player as the lendl years 2012-13.”

It’s false too. He is about at the same level since the beginning of the year.

“nadal is nowhere near slam winning form this year. he’s won 4 slams 2012-14.”

Same presupposition as above. Then, another presupposition is that winning depends ONLY on tennis level and form. Luck is a factor too.

“federer, he’s still playing as well as say, 2012 WB, but nole improved and has a better grass game since 2014.”

It’s also false. Federer played better both in 2014 and 2015 at Wimbledon.

“stan, same performance 2014-15.”


“so out of the big 4 rivals, 2 are down, and nole has got a little better, resulting in a dominating year.”

Out of four rivals — no one is down. Federer never played better on grass. He even improved. But his age is indeed a factor. Murray is at his peak. He didn’t improve compared to 2013, although this is debatable. Rafa — Novak just broke him in the war they wagged for years. But now he plays near his best again — anyway, he wasn’t injured for the FO, nor later, and his bad form is not an argument — at least, in 2013, Roger had back problems, but nobody puts an asterisk on Rafa’s results that year.

elina Says:

Thanks WB. My mistake. I thought I had read where she was from but couldn’t recall her name.

However my bad guess was successful in terms of mat4 knowing who I was talking about so mission accomplished!

elina Says:

mat4, not sure why you addressed that to me. None of those quotes came from me.

I agree (I think?) with your post (as far as I understood it).

mat4 Says:


I didn’t find a better article about the balls, but they were indeed changed about the beginning of the century. But racquets were changed too, strings too, and the overall aspect of the game.

What does it have to do with Jeff Sackmann’s article about surface conversion?

mat4 Says:


Sorry, I started a different answer then I changed it. Should have deleted your name, but forgot.

elina Says:

A funny and timely tweet from the interwebs…

elina Says:

Everything I’ve read from Heavy Topspin has always suggested that the slowing of the courts is a myth.

skeezer Says:

^Stop reading, start playing. You’ll learn more truths.

skeezer Says:

^Stop reading, start playing. You’ll learn more truths.

peter Says:

“While there is a correlation between craft and results, the presupposition that the correlation is straightforward is also wrong.”

never said it was straghtforward, but 3 slams instead of 1 is a huge leap, you can fluke 1 slam but you cannot fluke 3 slams. 2015 shows a great gap in ability between nole and fed/nadal/murray.

“murray has not been the same player as the lendl years 2012-13.

It’s false too. He is about at the same level since the beginning of the year.”

so my statement is false just because you said so? lol. 2015 Murray has only reached 1 slam final, while 2012/13 each year he reached 2 slam finals and converted once.

“nadal is nowhere near slam winning form this year. he’s won 4 slams 2012-14.

Same presupposition as above. Then, another presupposition is that winning depends ONLY on tennis level and form. Luck is a factor too.”

you have to admit you AGREE nadal’s level is significantly lower than previous years. well known fact. then, i also never said luck is not a factor, so you are implying Nole won 3 slams by luck?????

“Out of four rivals — no one is down.”

i must give up on explaining further since you are a bit delusional. even novak himself said rafa is down this year. nobody in their rational mind would think rafa played well enough to win a slam this year.

since rafa is nole’s greatest rival 2012-2014, beating him in 4 slam encounters, removing rafa from the equation means easier life for djokovic.

elina Says:

Yep down year for Nadal. Hard to debate that one. I thought mat4 meant down for good.

skeezer Says:
^Stop reading, start playing. You’ll learn more truths.

Sadly, I’m only playing club tennis and it’s neither been made faster or slower.

Wasn’t aware you were playing slams and can speak from experience skeezer.

Maybe you might want to read a bit more it seems. A mind is a terrible thing to waste. No fedfan left behind and all that?

Travis Bickle Says:

It is obvious Rafael Nadal’s frequent losses took its toll on his “less stable” worshipers. Some of them are even starting to post messages that clearly cross the line of good taste and personal insults.
Being sarcastic or have a bit of irony in a banter with other fans is perfectly fine, but some take it too far. There should be medication available nowadays for such folks. As of why they don’t take them is beyond me…

And finally, allegations of Mat of being too invested in tennis fandom and not having a life are truly comical, coming from a person who consistently break this site’s records in terms of long posts.

Wog Boy Says:

I think it is about time for Sean to step in, somebody is high on “ice”, aggressive, agitated, abusive and behaves completely irrationally.

mat4 Says:


I am not delusional.

The gap between three slams and one can be just a handful of points.

Yes, Novak was lucky in 2011 — at the USO especially. Rafa was lucky in 2013 at the FO. Andy was also lucky at Wimbledon in 2013. Fed had some luck at WB 2012.

On the other side, Novak was clearly unlucky at the FO 2012, 2013, 2015, at the USO 2012. Andy was unlucky in the AO 2011 final, Rafa in the AO 2014 final, Fed in the WB 2014 final, and the USO 2015 final.

Luck has his word, and it’s normal, when the differences between the top players are so tiny.

Three slams instead of one CAN be a huge lap, but DOESN’T HAVE to be.

Novak has improved a lot. It’s something you can see when you compare his matches, let’s say in 2011 and 2015. You can notice that he serves better, that his transition game is better, that his FH is clearly better, and his shot selection is better to. I forgot to mention the lob, btw.

But A LOT, at this level, is not 50%, it’s 5%, perhaps even less. And it doesn’t have to correlate with results.

About Rafa. Here, Brando is right: I am a Rafa hater. I don’t have to cut him some slack because he has “a mental injury”. Novak was in a very bad patch of form in the Summer of 2013, but nobody said that Rafa won the USO because Novak had a “mental injury” after RG 2013. So, no excuses. He is in excellent form right now, playing a semi of one of the fastest surface on the Tour. He didn’t play well in the first half of 2015, but the news of his decline are a bit premature.

Daniel Says:

mat4 @7:01,

Was a baby back them. Don’t know about him much, but a lot of great players of the past had poor ending in life. Back them pro soccer players were not the smartest in their finance, something that caged a bit this days. Will ask my father and let you know what I found out later.

Travis Bickle Says:

Brando, if you keep up with the length of your post your keyboard will explode…

Being a douchebag is one thing, but losing the only weapon (keyboard) you have available in your mom’s basement would be a disaster for you.
And your mom, since in that case she will have to interact with her middle-aged son who lives in her basement and his ‘Nadal in underwear’ posters all over her basement that confuse the poor woman.
I would paraphrase your advice to Mat and say “find a woman and have an affair” and your mom would welcome the idea of her son finally losing his virginity, but unfortunately that is impossible – women stay away from psychos…

elina Says:

You guys I’m checking out now as this has degraded to a very low level from both sides. Insulting posters and personal attacks are for those without a good argument. Comes from frustration.

And a Nadal hater? As in actual h-a-t-e.

Tell me mat4, who was your favourite player before Novak.

Never mind, it was a rhetorical question and I likely won’t see it anyways.

Daniel Says:

agree mat4, a few points can change Salam results, but what surprised me most about Novak’s evolution is that he is winning more “easy”. If he wins AO in similar fashion like USO than he’ll be scary good. Also let’s see if he keeps this form for next 2 tournaments, Paris and WTF.

mat4 Says:


Connors, Wilander, Mecir, some others, too, like Gildemeister (because of the name), Orantes (he wear a handkerchief and was so elegant on a court), after that, Agassi, Safin, and I liked Hewitt too. Basically a similar kind of players. I was impressed by Federer, I had great hopes for Coria.

I am often accused to be a Rafa hater, so, OK, I confess.

elina Says:

No you avoided my question.

Today I believe that Novak is your favourite player,

Who was it in say 2004-2005 for instance?

elina Says:

Danny, I do think Roger will put the kibosh on Novak’s streak at least once in Paris or WTF, both pretty fast surfaces.

Ol’ Rog is 2-0 vs Novak on the quicker surfaces in Dubai and Cincy winning both in straight sets

mat4 Says:

No, I didn’t avoid your question, I just misunderstood it. It was Safin back then, and Coria was my second fav.

Is it important?

elina Says:

Oh I hope not.

Is anything here?

If you say so mat4.

elina Says:

So Roger was never your personal fav then, hmmm?

Really mat4?

I find that odd.

Wog Boy Says:


They are not really fast and they have higher bounce than Shanghai, Dubai, Basel, USO, Cincinnati and Canadian masters, but that doesn’t mean Roger can’t beat Nole, of course he can, have a look:

Paris Masters Greenset Grand Prix Category 4: Medium-fast
ATP World Tour Finals Greenset Grand Prix Category 3 – Medium

Keep in mind that you can change the speed and bounce that is classified by manufacterer by laying it differently, as they did with AO IN last two years, it plays faster than before plus Wilson replaced tennis balls in the last two years, last longer and more importantly, fly faster and stay lower. If you look Paris and London are using same surface but speed is different.

Wog Boy Says:

Just to make eisier for you, this the speed table:

Category Court Pace Rating
Category 1: Slow ≤ 29
Category 2: Medium-slow 30-34
Category 3: Medium 35-39
Category 4: Medium-fast 40-44
Category 5: Fast ≥ 45

mat4 Says:


If you analyse all the players I mentioned, you’ll see that all were aggressive baseliners, usually with great two-handers. My first favourite player was Connors (he had a different racquet, he was American, and he was a handsome man), so I continued to like a similar kind of game. The Wilander from 1988 impressed me very much too.

No, Roger was never my favourite, although I respected him. I enjoyed very much when he lost to Safin at the AO, or to Nalby at the Masters.

I liked Novak and Andy when they arrived, in 2007, but Andy remained too defensive on the court for my taste, and after that, I didn’t like the fact that he was the chouchou de la presse.

I also had great hopes about Tsonga, in 2008, but he later just didn’t work hard enough.

So — if you want to know my type of players:

– aggressive baseliners,
– great backhand,
– no great talent but work intelligence.

elina Says:

Gotcha mat4.

My favs were Connors and Sampras.

mat4 Says:

I didn’t like Sampras game, but he was also a handsome man, and, when you read La Rochefoucauld, you know how important it can be.

So I was often between a rock and a hard place: I prefered Sampras to Agassi, but I prefered Agassi’s tennis to Sampras’. Go figure. I didn’t know who to root for.

Daniel Says:

Also, Paris and WTF arei indoors and Federer like this conditions. Maybe he has a shot against Novak in one of those, but I kind pretty much bet that Djoko wins one of the next two.

The guys has won last 22 sets he played going back to last 2 in USO and the one he lost to Fed was a 7-5 set. So people will need to gets sets of him first, let alone a win this restive the year.

peter Says:


I find it really funny to have so maNY matches classified as being lucky or unlucky, seems like most matches are determined by luck rather than skill.

“Novak was lucky in 2011 — at the USO especially. ”
no. You don’t win the match by hitting two shots. Federer lost the match because novak played BETTER last 3 games. Even though Novak saved two match points, Federer was still serving for the match at deuce. No excuse.

“rafa was lucky in 2013 at the FO”
Same reasoning for above…

“Andy was also lucky at Wimbledon in 2013”.
Beating Nole convincingly in straights and still called lucky?? Omg.

“Fed had some luck at WB 2012.”
No idea what you are referring to, fed beat Nole and Murray back to back convincingly.

There are some lucky slam wins, but most of those in your list are not. Again, you can’t win 3 slams in a year just because you are feeling lucky.

now its obvious u are a nadal hater, given that u can’t admit he’s had poor form at slams this year. Admiting this breaks ur entire argument. Whether nadal does well in china is completely irrelevant to grand slam play earlier this yr, poor logic.

Matt Says:

Come on over to my site, have a read and see if you can take a few swings. Maybe we agree on more than not; can’t tell since you seem pretty hysterical. Whatever points you’re trying to make are getting undermined by your ad hominem bullshit.


mat4 Says:


“Andy was also lucky at Wimbledon in 2013″.
Beating Nole convincingly in straights and still called lucky?? Omg.”

No, Andy was lucky to avoid both Nadal and Federer, who were in his half, and to win that match against Verdasco, from 0-2. His draw opened, while Novak played a tough semi.

I don’t have to explain the concrete reasons for other “lucky” cases, although I can. You missed them.

“seems like most matches are determined by luck rather than skill”

The difference in skill was very tiny in those finals.

Eventually, my arguments are quite clear: you can’t make direct inference about game improvements from results, since results don’t depend only on skill, craft, but on circumstances and form.

So, you can’t take form in account — nor for gauging results, nor for assessing improvements.

Novak won 3 slams in 2011 already, so he didn’t have to improve his game to won 3 in a year again.

And, enough about that hate story. I don’t care about Rafa.

skeezer Says:

Since you seem to know by “reading” what topspin is all about, tell us what grip do you use(and does surface matter) and what is the proper arc of the swing, and is it better to take the ball below your knees, at waste high, or chest high, or does it matter. Furthermore, does sitting down or standing up prior and during the follow through matter at all. What are the “zones” for one who hits topspin, in regards to their target and in what circumstance? All ears towards your “reading”…..or “google it and yes you too can be a professional tennis player”.
Btw I do not play Slams but can speak from experience. Like I said, from what authority you seem to tout on opinions, you need to play more and read less.

jane Says:

“Whatever points you’re trying to make are getting undermined by your ad hominem bullshit.”


Ngentot Says:

Wow, Brando is losing it. He’s angry, irritated and talks long nonsense on and on and on. I can’t imagine any other reason than the fact that his beloved king of clay can no longer compete with the best. But of course he will deny it.

I sincerely hope that the great Nadal will soon find his mojo back, so that people like Brando and Giles can smell the coffee again. AMEN.

elina Says:

The web site not the shot silly.

You haven’t played those courts but you speak from experience?

Jeff Sackmann speaks from hard measured irrefutable data, something I’m confident I know more about than you.

Not experience on courts you’ve never played on before.

Say whaaaaat?

Can I get a shaaaaaaamon.

skeezer Says:

I responded to this, hace NO idea what you are talking about. Websites? Sackman?

“skeezer Says:

^Stop reading, start playing. You’ll learn more truths.

Sadly, I’m only playing club tennis and it’s neither been made faster or slower.

Wasn’t aware you were playing slams and can speak from experience skeezer.

Maybe you might want to read a bit more it seems. A mind is a terrible thing to waste. No fedfan left behind and all that?”

Take a lesson from a pro at your Club. Ask him/her to teach ou topspin.

skeezer Says:

Oh by the way, from your “read” of that article.
“but the available data is very limited…..”
If data is VERY limited,….it leaves the door open for “flawed”.

Be careful on accusing me of courts I may or may have not played… have no idea.

There is some data out there that is not very “limited”. Like what player has the top Slam count in all of Tennis and the most all time records. Shammmooon!

Wog Boy Says:

I like your article about Tsonga.

Gypsy Gal Says:

What the hell is going on with this forum?too many personal insults been thrown about,posters calling other posters names ,and yet Sean and the staff dont seem to care or want to do anything about it,its been going on for months,shame where this forums heading….

Giles Says:

Alison. If you’re not part of it then I suggest you stay out of it. To quote you ” It’s all in good fun”.

brando Says:

“but unfortunately that is impossible – women stay away from psychos…”: I see that your mother still has not informed you on what to your being a b–tard child. Best take the next taxi home Travis, you’re in for a shock.

brando Says:

@Matt: ad hominem? Nah old sport, some here call a pig with lipstick on Scarlett Johansson, I’m just calling it for what it is. There’s nothing personal. Just saying it like it is. As for your website: unaware of it. Post a link. Any decent, I’ll commend it, talk sh-t shall be treated as such.

brando Says:

“his beloved king of clay can no longer compete with the best”: the best? Apparently that includes a 34 year old, a flaky player (wawrinka), a talent with a mental implosion button (AM), birdbrain, no weapons ferru, the short, injury prone samurai and a servebot who ain’t doing anything different any time soon. Long story short: this era is a mess. Its pathetically weak. Hell: everyone knows what a disaster year has had, so many awful losses and yet he’s no.5! Lmfao: it’s pathetic. I rather speak the truth about it than be deluded and consider it a brilliant achievement to dominate this p-ss poor field and then label those who call it what it is “agitated, angry” etc for doing so. Lol: rather be that with a handle on the truth than be a sad, desperate joke who wishes to maintain delusions of greatness when reality suggests: over what? This pathetic field. Stay away sport, you don’t want me delivering the truth and piercing the bubble you live in.

Matt Says:

Hey, Einstein, you missed the link. FYI, the “LoL” and “Lmfao” every other line, again, renders you a kind of teenage head case with a big time crush on . . . is it Rafa? Again, not really reading your hysterical garbage, but if you’re going to go postal on everyone with Nadal on your back, I wish you well.

Matt Says:

Thanks, Wog Boy.

J-Kath Says:

Courbon – “twitter=litter” – glad you got a chuckle – prefer novels, short stories – but am open to offers……Yah.


WogBoy = gracious….? For some reason those two words just do not go together.”

Ah, Courbon, I know WogBoy will pump out his chest and achieve parity with my estimation of him.

J-Kath Says:

I note the War and No Peace session is on-going – how about calling a ceasefire and play rugby, football or knock-out tennis.

I hope the latest session on “How to lose friends and not influence people” will be over soon – or there won’t be anyone left on TX but protagonists.

J-Kath Says:

Brando @ 5.19pm

,,,,but, but, but – chicken sh-t is fertiliser, what farmer would not welcome it? I sell all my chicken s— to my local farmer and all my used coffee grains to the local mushroom grower et al.

No need to reply, in fact I’d prefer you not to reply – just thought you’d like to think it through for next time.

Gypsy Gal Says:

Matt im actually a Rafa fan that doesnt believe hes perfect,however i dont hate Roger or Novak personally,and i dont care for the personal insults been thrown at fellow posters either,but i did look at your blog,and i does seem heavily predjudiced against Nadal,just a question as i havent had the time to read the comments section,do you get any feedback from his fans,or would you prefer they didnt leave you any anyway, if so i just thought blogs were supposed to be a bit more neutral than that??….

kriket Says:

Katarina Pijetlović’s suggests Montenegrin origin, and half of them consider themselves Serbian while the other half consider themselves Montenegrin (as of late).

Religiously though, they all belong to autocephalous Serbian Orthodox Church.

kriket Says:

^her surname*

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