Rafael Nadal Is The First Player To Qualify For The London Finals, Leads Djokovic In 2013 By 2K Ranking Points

Gap between your Humble Highness and the Egg Lover is amazing, considering I still have a bum knee.

I notice that jockeying for the Swiss No. 2 position is still on. Stan’s position is in trouble.

June 10th, 2013 at 11:39 pm

What a fabulous year Nadal has had in 2013 and his comeback is wondrous. He did prove that he was not a one court wonder by comprehensively winning Indian Wells. He is leading in 2013 points table and is in the top in race to WTF.He deserves it so far.

June 11th, 2013 at 12:28 am

Vamos King. Good luck in Wimbledon. Stay healthy

June 11th, 2013 at 3:48 am

Here we go again.
Rafa isn’t top in the race because he “deserves” it. It’s because he’s got the points.
If the ranking were a value judgement, surely Ferrer would “deserve” a very high ranking for his determination and sheer effort.
But the ranking is arithmetic, not judgement.

Regarding Rafa’s comeback, what impresses me most is not his physical recovery, it’s the remarkable lack of technical rust after such a long lay-off. True, he ended the FO playing better than he started, but I think most players, after half a season out of the game, would have lost early in Paris. Murray would, for one, which is why I shall be nervous watching him at Queen’s Club!

June 11th, 2013 at 4:47 am

@Colin, what a lot of people don’t realise is that Nadal had prepared hard for over a month, hitting the gym, practising every day on the tennis court, before his first tournament in over 7 months. If you followed him on Twitter or FB you’d know what I’m talking about.

June 11th, 2013 at 5:36 am

Qualify first, finish last. Yawn, seen this routine a number of times.

Once he is off clay, the guy gets beaten by dodig, rosol and florian mayer and a lot of journey man.

It will be a miracle if the guy plays both Wimbledon and US. Already rumours abound that the guy may not be fit for Wimbledon. No one will be surprised if he withdraws or even worse gets Rosoled or Branded!

June 11th, 2013 at 7:42 am

^^^ Hey calm down and don’t spread rumours. Rafa will be competing in Wimbledon whether you like it or not. Rafa will arrive in London next Tuesday to start his prep on grass
Vamos King!

June 11th, 2013 at 8:11 am

^^^and then they will all start obsessing about whose quarter Rafa will fall in. I’m betting Sean Randall will even write a blog about that….

June 11th, 2013 at 8:20 am

hey contador if you’re around. the penny just dropped as to who our new poster is. i should have spotted it earlier: surly, imperious, proxy pr supremo for federer. the signs were there all along.

June 11th, 2013 at 9:01 am

I am watching tennis before work, volley. seeing if anyone else is. it sometimes is fun to have watch a match with others but now it is mostly a rafa nadal fan club – not many of those are interested in anything other than him – as tennis goes.

There are a growing number of posters around these threads I have to ignore but simon is a welcome relief to me. so sorry, we do not exactly agree there volley.

June 11th, 2013 at 9:21 am

Good to ‘see’ Simon congratulating Rafa on being the first to qualify for the WTF! :D

June 11th, 2013 at 9:31 am

Not getting into it with you this morning, James. I am too happy watching tennis. You are not interesting with your everything is about Rafa world – already found that out days ago.

June 11th, 2013 at 9:41 am

Whoa la Monf clobbered Milos.

Ernie/Baggy about to begin!

June 11th, 2013 at 9:47 am

Colin, after the finals / losing to Rafa at IW, Delpo said similar. He didn’t think many, if any, players could come back after such a long injury layoff and win almost every tournament. Rafa’s been on quite the run.

I guess Andy is back playing tomorrow. Hopefully the rain lets up.

June 11th, 2013 at 9:55 am

I have to find a stream for Ernie-Baggy, @jane!

Jerzy lost to lucky loser – a kid named Basic from Sarajevo. Basic blew Jerzy off the court

Thinking this is a nadal thread. Going to that thread where Halle and Queens are.

June 11th, 2013 at 9:55 am

I saw that – not so basic after all I guess? Will join you on other thread.

June 11th, 2013 at 9:56 am

@contador, harsh but true :D

June 11th, 2013 at 9:57 am

This is for @Simon and the like :
Nadal today –
“I want to make it clear that I never said I am not going to play at Wimbledon but I won’t be playing in Halle” he explained.

June 11th, 2013 at 11:57 am

I never knew there was a rumor going round that Rafa was not playing Wimby. Where did this come from?

June 11th, 2013 at 12:44 pm

Nadalista, Rafa was talking about his knee again and he said the following, which could’ve been interpreted as Wimbledon being in doubt?

“”I will check all my body, and I really hope to be ready for Wimbledon. I won’t play a tournament before Wimbledon, so that’s not the ideal situation before a Grand Slam like Wimbledon that is on grass and the conditions are very different.

“It’s a tournament that is more unpredictable for that reason. But I am going to try to arrive in good shape to Wimbledon. And if not, I am going to look at the rest of the season.”

The link is here:

http://www.breitbart.com/system/wire/CNG—b0644699aad940ff35c204b6791e69d2—01

June 11th, 2013 at 1:03 pm

The part “I really hope to be ready for Wimbledon” may’ve been interpreted as he may not be, although the rest of the statement seems to clarify that.

June 11th, 2013 at 1:05 pm

Nadal today –
“I want to make it clear that I never said I am not going to play at Wimbledon but I won’t be playing in Halle” he explained.

—
Arrotards are spreading unnecessary rumors about my health.

Some people play on grass to prepare for the grazing season. Others just talk to cows.

Uncle Toni has ordered 2 cows and they will teach me all I need to know about grass. Apparently, they have been eating grass since they were born.

June 11th, 2013 at 1:48 pm

Good to ‘see’ Simon congratulating Rafa on being the first to qualify for the WTF!
—
First birdsh*t, now gilles. WOW.

I must be really good/

June 11th, 2013 at 1:54 pm

Nadal is supposed to be ahead in the points race after the clay court season. This year he lost Monte Carlo and was down a break in the 5th set on a hot, dry, high bouncing ball day. His comeback has been tremendous, but a little perspective wouldn’t hurt.

June 11th, 2013 at 2:00 pm

In the French, it should say.

June 11th, 2013 at 2:01 pm

He lost a game on serve to the best returner in the game. WOW, time to call it quits Rafa, as such a thing surely is reason enough to do so. #clutching for straws!

June 11th, 2013 at 2:06 pm

You are clueless, enjoy your Rafa postered rubber room.

June 11th, 2013 at 2:11 pm

Jimmy im a Rafa fan,and im only pleased about the hear and now,im only taking his comeback step by step and not getting carried with what will happen in the future,and im not a fan whos arrogant enough to expect him to win everything out right either,as far as i can see though reading teletext and reading between the lines,Rafa says hes targetting his 3rd Wimbledon crown(ok obviously that doesnt mean he will get it),he also said Wimbledon will be his next destination,the oporative word been will not might,or might not,so im seeing this as a possible sign he will play,untill i hear otherwise,but i agree in that some of his fans should put things into perspective,and not to take anything for granted,IMO i think it was a smart move pulling out of Halle,he needs the rest.

June 11th, 2013 at 2:14 pm

^Positive sign he will play,not a possible sign he will play^.

June 11th, 2013 at 2:17 pm

Rest is a good idea, on grass you have to get lower for your shots and the lower body really feels it. He is such a great competitor you can never count him out of anything.

June 11th, 2013 at 2:19 pm

Hope Rafa doesn’t run away and hide cause its Grass. All of the sudden after winning the FO running around in fantastic shape his knees hurt? What has he done since then, play Golf?

Seriously, he sounds like he should be ready. My guess is he’ll play….with excuses of course.

June 11th, 2013 at 2:19 pm

“There are a growing number of posters around these threads I have to ignore but simon is a welcome relief to me. so sorry, we do not exactly agree there volley.”

I second that too, he reminds me a lot about Dave, whose posts I used to enjoy, being a Federer fan. I can understand anti-federer fans not liking him, but the guy always puts up numbers and proofs to back his comments, which is more than we can say for most posters over here.

Congrats on Rafa qualifying. What is the earliest any player qualified for WTFs? My be would be Federer 2006 or Nole 2011. Any tennis experts know the answer to that one?

June 11th, 2013 at 2:53 pm

Danny Morris i dont know what happened to Dave,your right he was a very clever and knowledgeable man,im a Rafa fan but im not antiFed im not anti anybody,however Dave did say some rather offensive things to a number of fans on this forum,including Fed fans,Ajet was a lovely Fed fan who crossed swords with Dave about a year ago,and hasnt posted since,Dave IMO could come across as been a bit of a bully sometimes with some of the things he said to people who dared to disagree,but i agree in that this forum has become a bit Rafa heavy lately,and it even annoys me as a fan,i would hope im more of a fan of tennis as a whole,and not just a Rafa fan,im sure it will pass soon enough,but also can i ask did you not think that Daves posts were a little Federer biased sometimes?or do you not think some Federer fans are little bit like that?just wondering surely we all are a bit biased sometimes?no harm or foul or anything.

June 11th, 2013 at 3:11 pm

Thanks @jane. I read those statements from Rafa but never construed them to mean he is doubtful for Wimby.

Anyway, here is the latest statement, from rafaelnadalfans facebook, on Rafa, translated:

“The left knee of Rafael Nadal is “a little better every day,” as explained by the doctor of the Royal Spanish Tennis Federation, Angel Ruiz-Cotorro, which today has visited eight times Roland Garros champion in Barcelona.

Nadal has passed a medical this morning at Medical Clinic Tennis Maphre of the Catalan capital where he has spent “routine tests,” explained Dr. Ruiz-Cotorro.

Specifically, the Spanish tennis has undergone ultrasound and resonance control, which confirmed that the left knee injury that kept him standing over seven months has “a good outcome”.

The Balearic tennis today return to Mallorca, where a couple of days rest before returning to training on the track.

Nadal’s intention is to use these weeks without competing-reappear later this month in the Wimbledon Open for muscle strengthening treatment with your therapist, Rafa Maymo, and his trainer, Joan Forcades.”

@skeezer, I am sure you will be happy to hear confirmation that your favourite player, now that Fed is on the wane, Rafael Nadal will be playing Wimby!

June 11th, 2013 at 3:17 pm

@nadalista. That’s great new, no?
Vamos Rafa!

June 11th, 2013 at 3:29 pm

Even better news is the following, @Giles:

RAFA PLANS TO PLAY ON TILL 2018 :)

Eight-time French Open champion, Rafa Nadal revealed exclusively to MARCA that he places great value on what he has achieved after seven months in which he started to have doubts about his physical fitness.

“I had a limp three months ago. My knee hurt a lot when I started playing again, but that pain didn’t worsen over the course of the tournament, in fact it subsided. That’s great news,” Nadal explained.

Wimbledon is just around the corner: “I’ll have a check-up on my knee over the next few days, having not had one for many weeks. I’ve held up very well. I don’t plan on having any injections for the pain in order to play in London.”

With 12 Grand Slam titles to his name, he is now looking, to a greater or lesser degree towards the world’s greatest ever player: “Roger Federer’s 17 Grand Slam titles seem light years away to me. I’m not even thinking about that right now.”

One of my main objectives is the 2015 Olympic Games in Rio de Janeiro. I’ll work as hard as I can to make it in tip-top condition. Hopefully I’ll continue afterwards and continue playing until 2018,” said Nadal.

Hmmmm, how many Frenchies are in there???? I’m counting 5! Hehehehe!

June 11th, 2013 at 3:36 pm

Thanks for that @nadalista. Wow!
Vamos King!

June 11th, 2013 at 4:29 pm

Jon wertheim RT
@SportsDroppings….I quote Kornheiser “Nadal has now removed Federer FROM THE DISCUSSION OF G.O.A.T”

June 11th, 2013 at 4:40 pm

@jon_wertheim @SportsDroppings Nadal is obviously the best claycourter of all time & I think he is a fantastic champion & a great guy. But..

LOL, 2 can play this game.

Alison, I am a little Federer biased myself. We all have our favourite players. Dave was Federer biased but he had the numbers to back up his statements. If people can counter-debate showing he was wrong with the numbers as such power to them, but I know a lot of posters go by their “opinions” and try to pass them as facts with 0 proof.

1 example is how Giles selectively posted from Jon’s twitter messages to cover up the general opinion regarding Rafa. He still needs to establish himself as the top player outside clay. To me he is more surface reliant than Sampras, at the moment. As most tennis pundits know, Rafa is 3rd among the current generation when you compare records at AO, USO and WTF. He is 2nd in wimbledon and 1st on clay. He looks more likely to be overtaken by Nole at wimbledon than him overtaking Federer.

June 11th, 2013 at 4:52 pm

Richard Ingham Evans ‏@Ringham7 11m
@jon_wertheim @SportsDroppings Without question the best player I have seen since Lew Hoad & I know about Nadal’s record against him.”

Guess who the best player since Lew Hoad (Laver’s idol) is?

Let me complete the quote in its entirety that, Giles selectively and cunningly posted only a part of:

Jon Wertheim ‏@jon_wertheim 28m
RT @SportsDroppings:…I quote Kornheiser “Nadal has now removed Federer FROM THE DISCUSSION of G.O.A.T.” Lifetime ban from tennis talk?

LOL! I think cunning people like Giles who twist posts/facts are more dangerous than the stupid kornheiser. I wonder what the punishment should be for cunning/manipulative/racist posters like Giles or his friend Steve27?

June 11th, 2013 at 4:56 pm

Here is the extract from the article by Bruce Jenkings comparing Federer and Serena in GOATdom

“The numbers. Before you start wondering if Nadal should be the man in this conversation, remember that between the 2003 Wimbledon and the 2010 Australian Open, Federer won 16 of the 27 majors. That’s astounding, especially considering the ever-burgeoning globalization that has brought such depth to the men’s tour. Federer is also working on a streak of 36 consecutive quarterfinals in the majors, and as colleague Jon Wertheim noted, only five other players even competed in all of those tournaments. Federer’s numbers require a separate book, something to last through the ages, ideally crafted by fountain pen on seasoned parchment paper.”

You can read the full article at SI

June 11th, 2013 at 5:01 pm

Alison:

You and Kimberly are good and sane Rafa posters. Sadly, I cannot say the same for the other rafa fans.

Keep posting and supporting the King of Clay.

June 11th, 2013 at 5:04 pm

“With 12 Grand Slam titles to his name, he is now looking, to a greater or lesser degree towards the world’s greatest ever player: “Roger Federer’s 17 Grand Slam titles seem light years away to me. I’m not even thinking about that right now.””

LOL. I love to see how they say he’s “looking towards it” even though by his own words he’s “not even thinking about that right now”.

I can’t imagine I’m the only fan who remembers Rafa plays “one match at a time”. Have all the journalists had a collective lobotomy or something?

I am also hoping that 2015 is a typo. They won’t have Olympics in Rio till 2016.

Nonetheless, I am thrilled that Rafa is contemplating staying with us till at least 2018. That means I have time to save to go see him play in Paris. I’d hoped to go this year, and when it didn’t happen I started to fret. For anyone who supports Rafa, this is unqualified good news. Vamos!

June 11th, 2013 at 5:05 pm

“Sadly, I cannot say the same for the other rafa fans.”

*sticks tongue out at Danny Morris*

June 11th, 2013 at 5:06 pm

“You can read the full article at SI”

@Danny Morris

Not without a link, we can’t.

June 11th, 2013 at 5:07 pm

@Jimmy: Clueless? You are right I am, as to why I even bothered responding to your attempt to knock rafa’s outstanding return. I should know better: haters can hate, go ahead knock yourself out at it!

June 11th, 2013 at 5:10 pm

Re Rafa: Agreed, that is most excellent news. At the end of the day: Rafa has ZERO left to prove in the game right now. IF he were to retire today he would easily go down as a top 5 all time great player. Comfortably. Tennis players- present and former- critics, analysts placed him 5th in the all time list for men and women in April of last year for tennis. Com. Since then he has won another 2 slams, had a successful return that has been unprecedented and broke all time records for: most RG wins, single slam wins, most consecutive years as a slam winner etc etc. Long story short: his stock has gone up and he is an even more celebrated legend. And he’s just turned 27! Phenomenal stuff! He doesn’t have to break Fed’s record to prove anything: he’s already done enough in his career to already be long remembered after he’s gone. ANYTHING from here onwards is a just a bonus for him and his fans. Nothing more and nothing less. A undisputed legend of the game, Vamos Rafa!

June 11th, 2013 at 5:18 pm

Danny Morris fair enough,ive never myself said Rafa was the GOAT,id be an idiot if i said that,Rafa is simply one of the best ever and im happy with that,Novak may go on to win more GS than Rafa,and if he does that then fair enough again im happy with that,for me its never been about Rafas records or catching Federers records,i have always been a fan of Rafa and Rafas tennis,pure and simple as that,and Dave as you said always had the facts to back up his knowledge,no two ways about it,but as i say he came across as a bit of a bully sometimes with anyone who dared to disagree with him.

June 11th, 2013 at 5:24 pm

Thank you for proving my point, Brando.

June 11th, 2013 at 5:25 pm

The records don’t tell the whole story, Roger and Andre won a French but Novak’s loss last Friday is a superior result, in my opinion.

June 11th, 2013 at 5:35 pm

@M

DM’s link. Not hard to find if one is/was interested enough. I was.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/tennis/news/20130611/roger-federer-serena-williams-best-players-ever/

June 11th, 2013 at 5:38 pm

@Danny Morris

Great post @4:56. Required readin for the Rafafantic.

June 11th, 2013 at 5:51 pm

Brando,

Rafa has a magnificent ROS, one of the best! (Although, he needs to stand 30 feet behind the baseline to “retrieve” it). Problem is, and is exposed on more normal surfaces, you can’t get away with that position on ROS.

June 11th, 2013 at 5:54 pm

“*sticks tongue out at Danny Morris*”

Now there is the typical answer from a Rafanatic. Watch out DM, next comes name calling, bad racist jokes, a Rafa chant, a link to his twitter account or facebook page, and something about 2 cats…..

June 11th, 2013 at 5:57 pm

” What is the earliest any player qualified for WTFs? My be would be Federer 2006 or Nole 2011. Any tennis experts know the answer to that one?”

Did anyone know the answer to Danny Morris’ question? I am curious but I googled and couldn’t find it.

June 11th, 2013 at 6:54 pm

Main article: 2011 Novak Djokovic tennis season

On 14 May Novak Djokovic became the first qualifier, after reaching the finals of the Rome Masters.[16]

So we know that was earlier than Nadal this year.

June 11th, 2013 at 7:09 pm

Nadal qualified June 7, in 2010, again after he won the French Open

June 11th, 2013 at 7:12 pm

On 19 May 2009 after reaching his 7th final of the year at the 2009 Mutua Madrileña Madrid Open, 2009 Australian Open champion Rafael Nadal of Spain was announced as the first qualifier.

June 11th, 2013 at 7:14 pm

wilkepedia doesn’t say when Federer qualified for the 2006 Tennis Masters Cup, or 2007.

June 11th, 2013 at 7:19 pm

Thanks Kimberly; you looked at the actually player’s links then. I was searching the WTF, YEC, etc. rather than the players’ seasons themselves.

June 11th, 2013 at 7:55 pm

Ah, skeezer gave me a much needed laugh @ june 11, 5:57 p.m. :) thanks much.

June 11th, 2013 at 9:44 pm

I am really a jaded fan. I don’t even get a charge out of Federer, Nadal, Nole, Muzza, qualifying for WTF; I take it for granted and assume they will. Sure will notice when one of the top 4 doesn’t qualify though! Federer will still scrape by picking up just enough crumbs this year and likely next…my guess.

It would be cool to see EG at the tour final but…I don’t count on it. My, he played a solid match this morning – only one racket sacrificed. :D

June 11th, 2013 at 10:10 pm

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/tennis/news/20130609/rafael-nadal-wins-french-open-david-ferrer/index.html

Wertheim ends with “Ultimately Nadal’s place in history will be determined by how well he performs at the other three majors. Here? They may have named the place for an aviator. But if they ever want to rechristen it in honor of an actual tennis player, there’s no doubt who rules the Kingdom of Clay.”

I think, with Nadal’s current slam count, and since I don’t take pre-Open era results seriously, Nadal is the third greatest player of all time, after Federer and Sampras. A lot of people say that Nadal doesn’t even need to get to Federer’s slam count, just close enough so that the h2h will really matter, and he gets the call. But if Nadal only continues to win French Opens, then he simply can’t be the greatest overall. I’m not trying to diminish clay or the French, but Nadal has only 4 slams outside of the French Open. And it doesn’t matter that 2 of the other slams are hard courts, they’re still 2 separate events. Nadal doesn’t have anything to prove on clay, hasn’t for a while. But I completely agree with Wertheim here, his historical status will be determined by his results every where else. Win 1 or 2 more Wimbledons? Maybe an extra US Open or Australian Open? Then yeah, the picture becomes murkier between who’s the greatest.

June 11th, 2013 at 10:17 pm

Nadal could catch up in slam count if he continues to be healthy. He says he’s not thinking about it “right now” but that doesn’t mean that he and Uncle don’t know how close they are.

Rafa was in all those slam finals where Nole stopped him – Wim 11, USO 11, and AO 12 – if he’d’ve won those he’d have 15 slams already.

But it’s really difficult to know about his health and tough to predict.

———————–

contador, Ernie gave his racquet away to a fan, did you see? She seemed amused. ^_^

June 11th, 2013 at 10:26 pm

^^^^uh boy. I spend most of Sunday and Monday on all topics in the above post (especially h2h) hashing it all over with James.

Doubt you will mind if I pass, Ben Pronin :)
Going to go check out early morning matches at Halle and Queens.

June 11th, 2013 at 10:29 pm

no jane, I never came back home! very long day.
going to see if I can find it somewhere.

June 11th, 2013 at 10:35 pm

Oh Ben, what have you done!
Now expect tons of posts from fans of x and y players. Not Coldplay’s X & Y.

June 11th, 2013 at 10:47 pm

I was waiting for you guys for a nice discussion on the grass court thread but I see we are back to the rafa love thread which is great with me!

The heat are sucking by the way.
#wadeisadefensiveliability
#lebroncantdoitalone

June 11th, 2013 at 10:51 pm

Players likely be there for WTF:

1. Rafael Nadal
2. Novak Djokovic
3. David Ferrer
4. Roger Federer
5. Jo-Wilfried Tsonga
6. Andy Murray
7. Stanilas Wawrinka
8. Tomas Berdych

June 11th, 2013 at 10:57 pm

Hey Ben, just a reminder, Sampras couldn’t play on clay to save his life I don’t think he even made a Roland garros final. As much as I like Pete, when the clay neutralized his serve he wasn’t anything special. The grass he played on and hard courts he played on were much faster and suited to his weapons.i would argue him and nadal can already be in the same conversation as pete since nadal has a career slam, a gold medal. Pete has two more but Pete was a fast court player like nadal is a clay/slow hard court player. Neither was dominant on all surfaces like federer (let’s face it, if rafa didn’t exist federer would have montecarlo, Rome and several more FO). In short, to some degree I think Sampras and nadal’s titles show they lack balance but nadal is more balanced than Sampras who couldn’t even begin to succeed on clay.

June 11th, 2013 at 11:00 pm

@Kimberly, sorry, I haven’t started watching grass court tennis yet. I might from tomorrow as Murray is to play at Queen’s.

June 11th, 2013 at 11:00 pm

@james
What about del Potro, we are coming into his part of the season, the North American hard courts where he does so well. And maybe haas wouldn’t that be awesome

June 11th, 2013 at 11:06 pm

On Fedal:

I don’t know if Nadal can get to Roger’s 17. Doubtful. I’d like him to win a few more non clay Slams though. Maybe another Wimbledon. If he wins 1 more USO and 1 more AO, he’d have a double Career Slam, something even the Swiss great doesn’t.

I think Roger has another Slam in him. Wimbledon? That should make it 8 for him, like Rafa’s 8 FO.

June 11th, 2013 at 11:10 pm

@Kimberly, you’re right, Delpo should make it to WTF. I should have placed him above Wawrinka. Sorry Stan, Delpo stands a better chance.

June 11th, 2013 at 11:13 pm

@skeezer – I’m a FEDAL fan.

But you seem to be foaming at the mouth a bit too much to have done sufficient research to glean that before just leaning on in.

Check in with grendel next time he’s around. He knows me.

:-)

June 11th, 2013 at 11:54 pm

@Kimberly – JMDP won a tight 3-setter against the X-Man today. I would’ve preferred a 2-setter, but the X-Man, though a longtime vet, is good on grass.

I hope Juan Martín gets an opportunity to face someone special from the top half — Tommy, or Roger (of whom he’s an admitted fan).

June 11th, 2013 at 11:56 pm

X-man had gimpy fed on the ropes last year at the big W until his gimpy back loosened up.

June 12th, 2013 at 12:43 am

Kimberly

Warned you about Wade….if the Heat are going to win…sadly in a way…they need him. Think he’ll be around next year?(SA;16 3 pointers, you kiddin me?)

Btw nice post @11pm

June 12th, 2013 at 1:33 am

The Spurs’ role players shoot like that when they are front running, wait until there is real pressure …

June 12th, 2013 at 1:56 am

What an unpleasant game

Bye never liked the 2 3 2 finals format

June 12th, 2013 at 7:10 am

Kimberly, I think there is a pretty good debate between Nadal and Sampras due to their “unbalanced” resumes. But Sampras does have 6 years in a row ending number 1, which, it seems like, no one will ever reproduce. Turns out that record is significantly harder than his slam record. I wouldn’t say he couldn’t play on clay “to save his life,” but yeah that hurts him. I mean, it’s kinda weird, but really Nadal is just the greatest number 2 ever. His greatest results have come when he WASN’T number 1. He’s great at the ascent, but not so great at the top (relatively speaking, of course). That’s where Sampras definitely holds an edge. Him and Federer are probably the best number 1s ever. But this is why it’s so hard to just say “this guy is the best and these guys are 2, 3, 4, etc.” Lots of different factors. As Nadal adds to his resume, he could flat out over take Sampras, or maybe they’ll always be interchangeable. Who knows?

As for the Heat, Lebron is playing horribly. Wade shouldn’t be allowed in during the second half. But at least Bosh is at his personal baseline of consistency. It was an all around horrible game. I hope it doesn’t carry over.

June 12th, 2013 at 8:22 am

@Ben and Kimberly: Great, great posts and I fully agree. IMHO: 1- Fed: without a doubt. 2- Sampras: Records have to be respected and IMO even though Rafa has a arguement v Sampras to this spot, 14>12. Should Rafa ever hit 14 himself, then I would argue in favour of him however. The tennis community unanmously picked Rafa as the 5th all time great in the tennis.com ranking. But that was both men and women. IMHO in the open era he is arguably the 3rd best of all time. Laver and Borg never ever won a HC slam, and I think should Rafa win one more non-clay slam, then no.3 on the all time lis would be his without great dispute. Either way: he’s a certified legend!

June 12th, 2013 at 9:07 am

^What do you mean a “tennis community poll”? Please provide a link.

June 12th, 2013 at 10:23 am

This list was made in 2012 before Nadal’s 12 GS, 8 FO

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/100_Greatest_of_All_Time

June 12th, 2013 at 10:29 am

^That is just to an already known published link to Tennis Channel’s 100 GOAT>

June 12th, 2013 at 11:23 am

I know. Just saying they placed him just behind Roger, Laver and Pete last year when had just 11 Slams.
Roger definitely is the GOAT though.

June 12th, 2013 at 11:38 am

@skeezer: yep, the link James provided is what I was referring to. My memory failed me again: Rafa was 6th. Since then he has added 2 more GS slams.

June 12th, 2013 at 11:49 am

I wish he could surpass Sampras. 1 more RG, 1 more Wimbledon and 1 more HC major and thats it, 15 majors and a second gold medal and 1 WTF. Vamos!

June 13th, 2013 at 1:41 am

“I mean, it’s kinda weird, but really Nadal is just the greatest number 2 ever.”

Good that someone knows their tennis stats. There is a very realistic chance that Nadal would be 3rd in his own generation in terms of weeks at number 1. Not to mention Pete’s 7 Wimbledons will always be a huge trump card.

In that tennis channel list, Becker/Edberg with lesser slams are ahead of Wilander. Agassi/Mcenroe with inferior records at FO are ahead of lendl. I would say Nadal needs 16slams and atleast a couple more Wimbledons and 60-100 more weeks at number 1 to even overtake Pete.

As for Roger, his on-court records are one thing, but he dwarves everybody other than Borg/Agassi in his off-court Iconic status, which again seems to factor a lot into the GOAT discussions.

June 13th, 2013 at 2:29 pm

8 FOs > 7 Wimbledons

June 13th, 2013 at 4:37 pm

I see Nadal as better than Sampras. Just my opinion. Rafatard maybe but that’s how I see it.

June 13th, 2013 at 5:23 pm

8 is bigger than 7, that’s for sure.

But 7/14 looks better than 8/12 in terms of variety. But if Nadal wins 1 more US Open and 1 more Australian Open, to complete a second career slam, then he’s definitely a greater grand slam champion than Sampras.

However, and I can’t stress this enough, it’s simply unfair to overlook the fact that Sampras finished 6 straight years at number 1! In the 80s, slams weren’t even regarded as highly as they are now. But nowadays, I’d say the slams are regarded TOO highly for their own good. It’s somewhat an easy way to compare players, but to overlook all of their other accomplishments is simply blasphemous. Another example of this is Nadal’s Masters record. It’s simply epic. And you know it’s going to keep growing. That’s something that he obviously holds over everyone and definitely helps his cause (at least it should help, but it doesn’t because everyone only cares about slams) when determining his place in history. The debate rages on…

June 13th, 2013 at 5:42 pm

^Agreed. Rafa’s Master titles(How many on Clay? just saying….) at only 27 ( you know he is going to get more ), Feds Slam count AND many other records. And Sampras 6 yrs @ #1 and arguably the Greatest Grass Court PLayer ever.
Slam counts, however to carry the most weight, no doubt.

———

@James…fuzzy math. There aren’t just 2 Slams.

Its more like this;

8 FO, 1 USO, 2, Wimby, 1 AO < 7 Wimby, 5 USO, 4 AO, 1 FO

June 13th, 2013 at 5:56 pm

“8 is bigger than 7, that’s for sure.
But 7/14 looks better than 8/12 in terms of”

Agree, which is why I wouldn’t put Nadal above Sampras yet. Not only the no. of Slams but also year end #1 for six straight years like you mentioned. Also agree about the Masters. They’re big achievements but don’t count as much as they should.
If Nadal wins 2 more non clay Slams, he’d go passed Sampras imo. Sampras’ record on clay just doesn’t help his case when/if Rafa gets 14 Slams. A WTF would help Rafa’s even more.
I definitely see Nadal achieve more Slams than Pete before he retires.

June 13th, 2013 at 7:26 pm

“8 FO, 1 USO, 2, Wimby, 1 AO 12.

June 13th, 2013 at 7:37 pm

“8 FO, 1 USO, 2, Wimby, 1 AO < 7 Wimby, 5 USO, 4 AO, 1 FO"

agree @skeezer. What I meant was that 7 Wimbledons don't trump 8 FOs. But yes, in short 14 is more than 12.

June 13th, 2013 at 7:39 pm

Well, the masters weren’t so highly regarded in the 90s. Sampras would have won more than 11 masters if they really were important.

It is Slams and no.1. The weeks at number 1, factors in all other tournaments. If you include masters, you should also look at year end championships, as they are the 5th biggest tournament in tennis. Definitely one can argue a 500 like dubai has had better fields than a 1000 like monte carlo or paris.

One cannot argue that the Slams have more history and impotance than masters. It is also quite obvious that the Wimbledon is the holy grail of tennis. It is the place where the greatest champions ply their trade. People who do not win it like wilander/lendl are condemned to a rung below players who get their best resutls at SW19. Simon’s point is very valid. All slams are not the same. Agassi never cared for AO in his first 8 years on the tour, but over the last 10 years AO is comparable to a FO open, if not the USO.

June 13th, 2013 at 8:18 pm

I agree that slams are more important than Masters.

But, having said that, I think it’s really cool that Nole has 8 of the 9 and will likely complete the set as he’s come so close at Cincy on several occasions. I also love that he won ALL the clay masters by beating the King of Clay: Madrid & Rome 11, Monte Carlo 13.

What’s missing, and what needs to be added imho, is a grass masters. This is sorely lacking in the ATP tour and they should add one soon as prep for Wimbledon and just because it would be exciting to see a little more grass tennis.

Some people have made the argument here that winning a Masters can be even more difficult than winning a slam, since players have to play day-after-day and it’s seeded players (sometimes) from the get-go in round 1 or 2 – not to mention that it’s often played out over a week and not 2 weeks. However I still think it must be more difficult to win a slam or more players would have them! I think that Masters allow for a little more surprises because they are best of 3. Best of 5 really takes acumen and perseverance.

June 13th, 2013 at 8:32 pm

@jane,

Yes! Grass Masters, and more than one!

June 13th, 2013 at 10:44 pm

@Jane and Skeezer, agreed, a grass masters or two would make the year a lot more balanced. I think Wimbledon is being shifted back a week as of 2015, which will hopefully allow for Queens and Halle to be played in different weeks. Having Wimbledon towards the end of July would be even better, allowing for a couple more tournaments and making a proper lead up to the grass GS. Possibly more reliable weather, too! I guess that’s too much of a break with tradition for the AELTC though.

June 13th, 2013 at 11:31 pm

Kimberly is going to have a nicefyl peaceful sleep tonight ;)

#heatwin

June 14th, 2013 at 12:01 am

You can’t disregard Year End #1 and weeks as #1. They arebthe other 2 most important stats along with Slam titles and in this regards Sampras is record holder in the first (consecutive and may not be matched ever again) and second in the latest, behijd Federer.

If Nadal doesn’t get #1 this year, Djoko will already have more weeks spent as #1 and more Year End #1 than him winhalf his Slams. The fact that he has closer Slam count to Sampras doesn’t tell the whole story. If he wins 2 more RG, no other Slam and no #1 related stats, no way he is better than Sampras just because he tied 14 with 10 French Open. He needs to balance his stats outside clay to have a case.

June 14th, 2013 at 12:52 am

^absolutely!

June 14th, 2013 at 12:55 am

Well said Daniel. Unfortunately some fanatics are weak at statistical analysis and want to boil down GOAThood to 1 or 2 statistics.

Get this – Hrabty should be a goat candidate because he retired with winning H2Hs against both Roger and Rafa. LOL!

June 14th, 2013 at 3:23 am

“– Hrabty should be a goat candidate because he retired with winning H2Hs against both Roger and Rafa. LOL!”

How many Slams does Hrabty have? And did he play Roger and Rafa minimum ten times each?
If Hrabty has played Rafa and Roger more than ten times each and had a winning H2H then he really must be something.

June 14th, 2013 at 4:46 am

RT “@christophclarey Only one man in the top 30 in #tennis has a
winning record against everybody he’s played in the top 30. That’s Rafael #Nadal”

June 14th, 2013 at 5:42 am

You know why he has those winning records? because he is one-surface pony compared to Fed/Nole

Fed has superior records than Rafa at all majors except French. He has the disadvantage of being 5 years older too.

Nole has superior records than Rafa @ AO, USO and indoors – WTF.

They end up playing rafa more often on clay than on other surfaces, because

a) rafa is busy faking injuries during the 2nd half of the season.
b) they play a complete season and go deep on all surfaces including their weakest [2nd weakest for nole]and rafa’s strongest surface.

June 14th, 2013 at 6:06 am

Djokovic could have more weeks at number 1 and more year ends should he finish this year number 1. And he could even have 8 slams by the end of the year. A FULL calendar year behind Nadal.

This is why this stuff is so debatable. You can’t say Nadal is so bad because he hasn’t done what Federer and Sampras have done. Because the fact is he’s done a lot of things they haven’t. One trick pony? Unlike the two guys ahead of him in the slam count, he’s the first and only player since Laver to win 3 straight slams in 1 year, all on 3 different surfaces. Not even Federer could do that. However, Federer won 3/4 slams 3/4 years between 04-07. Nadal has only done that once. Whereas Sampras was never able to do it. So is Djokovic better than Sampras because he was able to? Not even close, maybe yet.

I do think it hurts Nadal that he has 0 year end titles. Not as much as the Fedfanatics, though. I don’t know. I mean I do consider it the 5th biggest title and I love that Djokovic has won a couple and Federer has the record. But Nadal has the Olympic gold, Federer and Djokovic don’t. He has won several Davis Cup titles, Djokovic 1, Federer 0, Sampras 2.

Also, Sampras is considered the greatest fast court player. There is a debate between who’s better on grass between Sampras and Federer. And yet neither one dominated grass the way Nadal has dominated clay. Djokovic is inching his way towards being one of the greatest hard court player, but right now it’s Federer. And, again, neither one dominates hard courts the way Nadal dominates clay.

And right now, everyone is going nuts about Nadal’s 9 finals to start the year. I mean, it’s incredible because he’s doing it after a long layoff. But really, all of it is on clay except for 1 tournament. Compare that to Djokovic’s 2011 start where he reached 7 straight finals, won them all, including 2 on clay. And of course one could argue 1 on hard vs 2 on clay isn’t a big difference. But there is a huge difference when you look at the individual events. Especially since Nadal’s Indian Wells is sandwiched between a bunch of clay tournaments. And 3 of those tournaments were fluff events. Djokovic didn’t sandwich clay anywhere, he moved onto it. But this is sorta nitpicking.

The real impressive finals run is by Federer. 17 in a row starting from Halle 2005 until Cincinnati 2006 (second all time list behind Lendl’s 18). That includes every big tournament, every small one he played, and all 3/4 surfaces (carpet was still a surface back then, I believe). And he went 12/17. And after he lost to Murray, he rebounded by winning the US Open and going undefeated for the rest of 06. Djokovic, also, bounced back well after losing in the French Open semi. But we don’t know how well Nadal will bounce back once he has a bad tournament. Especially during the second half of the year where he typically struggles.

Again, the point is, each of them have done a lot of things the other hasn’t. It’s not necessarily a sign of weakness, more like a sign of strength for the other guy. And that’s why it’s so hard to determine who’s greater.

June 14th, 2013 at 11:20 am

Ben great post brilliantly put,summed up very well,especially the last paragraph,in short really they should all be given credit for their different achievements,there is no right or wrong answer when it comes to the grand scheme of things,one GOAT and two all time greats.

June 14th, 2013 at 11:32 am

Great post, Ben. You’re one of the most unbiased posters around.

June 14th, 2013 at 2:26 pm

James i agree with that about Ben,however i have to say there is another poster who doesnt post often enough for my liking, whos exactly the same called Tennis Vagabond,no emotional bias towards any particular player,no name calling of any one particular player,no name calling of any one poster,just a refreshing type of honesty about the love of the game,and always giving credit to all the players for their own achievements.

June 14th, 2013 at 2:44 pm

Should have put another poster in there,the very wise and hilarious Grendel,his posts this past week would have been a welcome relief from all the bickering,very funny and also quite the gentleman too.

June 14th, 2013 at 2:48 pm

Fed does have a gold medal. regardless of some who try to ridicule it, a gold medal is a gold medal in olympics. anyone would be estatic to get one. besides, who else in the top 4-5 has a doubles gold medal? 0

June 14th, 2013 at 2:53 pm

Skeezer i think the point was that that they all have their very own achievements in different ways,and that shouldnt take anything away from the others achievements,its always seen as so and so aint got this,and so and so aint got that,so so and sos achievements are better than so and sos,if you see what i mean,so Rafa fans shouldnt take anything away from Roger,likewise the same about Rafas or Novaks etc etc,and yes indeed Roger is the only player to have a doubles gold medal.

June 14th, 2013 at 3:07 pm

@hippy chic, always good to have such posters around. You’re a very fair poster yourself, one of the few Rafa fans to be so on this site.

June 14th, 2013 at 3:13 pm

@hippy chic, exactly. They all have their own unique achievements. Rafa’s resume is much more impressive than people give him credit for. Roger has the most impressive of all though imo.

June 14th, 2013 at 3:16 pm

But where is Fed’s singles gold medal? Oh dear, he has to wait till 2016 to TRY AGAIN!!! Lol

June 14th, 2013 at 3:31 pm

It’s actually kind of funny. The singles Gold is regarded higher than the doubles Gold because singles is generally regarded higher than doubles. But the Olympics is definitely different. A Gold is a Gold. And Federer does have a Silver in singles, which means he has 2 Olympic medals. And 2 Olympic medals is 2 Olympic medals. I’m sure he’d love the singles Gold, though. But what Wawrinka and Federer pulled off in 2008 is incredible. Neither one is a doubles specialist by any means but they really dominated that event, beating the Bryan brothers along the way, as well as several other top doubles teams. It’s not a singles, but to me it’s a more impressive feat in and of itself. Doesn’t mean I didn’t want Federer to beat Murray last year, though ;)

June 14th, 2013 at 3:42 pm

James thats all i ever try to do.
Giles for crying out loud,the point is that they all have their own personal achievements that sets them apart,but that doesnt mean theres any need to p*ss on anothers(sigh).

June 14th, 2013 at 3:42 pm

alison. What’s your problem girl? I made a comment which rings true and you interpret the same as p*ssing on another. You are completely out of order making that comment. The only fans that do the p*ssing round here are the notorious fed fans and sometimes others who jump on the joker band wagon. You come across as a bit of a trouble maker. Geez!!

June 14th, 2013 at 3:57 pm

Giles true Fed doesnt have a singles gold medal,so what does it matter when he has achieved so much more,you highlight it and then make some sarcastic remark with a have to try it again in 2016 lol type of comment,im not making trouble,im just responding to your post.

June 14th, 2013 at 4:13 pm

Giles,

Leave her alone already. What a piece of crap you are. You types even turn on your own kind for the sake of the Clan. Ever watched a Preying Manits mate?

—

Ben,

Thanks, exactly my point. That said, Fed has made it very clear he wanted that singles Gold. He didn’t get it. Sometimes you can’t have everything. But he has accomplished in totality more than anyone. 2 Olympic medals, Silver and Gold, goes along nicely with 17 Slams, and other records, etc, etc.

June 14th, 2013 at 4:18 pm

alison. Why did you take it upon yourself to respond to my post in the first place. There are plenty of fed fans who could have responded, but no, you have to play godmother to every player and offer a nonsensical comment. Save it, am not interested in anything you have to say!!!

June 14th, 2013 at 4:21 pm

skeezer the geezer
#20-10
#MassacreInRome#
#GoldMedal2008

June 14th, 2013 at 4:24 pm

^^^ Singles Gold Medal

June 14th, 2013 at 4:25 pm

Giles forgive me i thought this was supposed to be an open forum.
Skeezer thankyou.

June 14th, 2013 at 4:26 pm

^^^ Blog away. As I said not interested!

June 14th, 2013 at 4:32 pm

^The feelings mutual,your becoming a real bully^.

June 14th, 2013 at 4:35 pm

http://www.forbes.com/profile/rafael-nadal/
Nadal makes the Forbes list.
Vamos King

June 14th, 2013 at 4:44 pm

alison. No name calling!!

June 14th, 2013 at 4:45 pm

Talking about bullying: A great short film about that

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XLcfdkkHQE&noredirect=1
This is important for education, authorities, parents and our society. It’s time to reflect to counter abuse in schools.

June 14th, 2013 at 4:45 pm

@Steve 27. That film was a bit disturbing to say the least.

June 14th, 2013 at 5:07 pm

Ben,

It will always have one thing the other do best and the point with Federer and GOAThood is that he just have more than everybody else, period. If you wnat to find a blind spot is only the HxH with Nadal other than that he has all that matters the most losing only to Sampras in Year End #1.

Another thing people like to highlight the RG-Wimby double beacuse innthe oast was so hard to do it, still is, only Fed and Nadal did, but Federer won Wimby-US Open double 4 consecutive years. I do ‘t know what is more difficult to repeat but this and win 8 RG out of 9 years looks unrepeatable. Also, sorry Nadal fans but they are the 2 hardest Slams to win and more prestigious, not because I am a Fed fan, but perception of the tennis comunity as WTF is the 5th most important tourney of the year.

Nadal also wll have a chance next yar to win RG 5 straight times, whihc he was going for in 2009 and we all know what happen. That can be another great record of his own.

June 14th, 2013 at 7:01 pm

Also, sorry Nadal fans but they are the 2 hardest Slams to win and more prestigious, not because I am a Fed fan

Fail, ask Mc Enroe, Connors and whatever you like it, and no way Wimbledon and especially Us Open is the hardest majors to win.
Is subjective, after all, they are both Anglophone helps give more emphasis to all but not true as is the case.

June 14th, 2013 at 7:17 pm

Wimbledon is the most prestigious tennis tournament in the world, but the French Open is the most difficult to win. Ask Roger and Novak. In the last 9 years only Roger has won 1 and Nadal (who happens to be the clay GOAT) the rest. FO has always been physically the most demanding tennis tournament in the world. Just because Rafa happens to dominate it (and chances are you may be a big fan of Nadal) doesn’t mean it’s easier to win than the Wimbledon or USO.

June 14th, 2013 at 7:31 pm

The US Open may be is the most difficult Slam for Rafael Nadal? For every other tennis player it’s got to be the French Open.

June 14th, 2013 at 8:13 pm

“Just because Rafa happens to dominate it (and chances are
you may* be a big fan of Nadal) doesn’t mean it’s easier to win than the Wimbledon or USO.”

*not

June 14th, 2013 at 8:14 pm

Borg in an interview admits he would not change any Wimbledon, for his elusive US Open

June 14th, 2013 at 8:32 pm

Geez, I don’t understand what the hell’s going on with my posts on this site. Several novak fans ganged up on me, including ben, calling me several names and then my comments were put in moderation.

How about someone letting me know why this happened and why the disgraceful treatment towards me? What did I do wrong for this unfai treatment? everyone who does not like Djoker is being run off byh his fans.

Are the administrators aware of the bad reputation this site has in the blogoshere? i guess not.

June 14th, 2013 at 9:19 pm