Serena Williams Wins Wimbledon, Ties Graf, Targets Court’s Pseudo-Record

Congratulations Serena!!! Now on to #25 so I don’t have to see that homophobic, narcissistic mug-shot of Court at the top of some GS lists (“pseudo-record”…well said!).

July 9th, 2016 at 12:43 pm

>>> Court’s Slam titles occurred in 1960-1973, eight years of winning Slam titles when only a select group of players were allowed to contest Slams.

Not so. Only the top men turned professional. The women didn’t.

Margaret Court’s 24 titles includes 11 Australian Opens. Back then nobody of any consequence travelled to the other side of the world. The AO was a glorified Challenger.

Billie Jean King only played there 3 times in a 20 year period.
Bueno and Ann Jones played twice.

One year (1963??) not a single player from the Northern hemisphere competed.

The telling statistic for Court is that when she faced real competition on grass i.e. at Wimbledon she only won 3 Wimbledon titles.

July 9th, 2016 at 1:14 pm

For Okie if shes reading, as i know your a Serena fan, history was made 22 GS WOW amazing, and i would bet and i wouldnt put it past her to catch Margaret Courts 24 ….

July 9th, 2016 at 2:42 pm

Here we go again. a writer unnecessarily belittling another person’s achievements qs a way of heaping praise to another. It is a record because it is the most number of slams. Just explain that it covers both open and non-open eras. There’s no pointin making Court’s achievement sound phony.

July 9th, 2016 at 3:36 pm

Markus well thats Jeremy Davis for you ! ….

July 9th, 2016 at 3:37 pm

Markus,

Stephen is not making Margaret’s achievements sound phoney – he is simply explaining facts to folks like you who obviously do not know details about non-open era. And these facts themselves point to the truth that Margaret won all those slams in numbers but not in real achievements (as in beating top players in the world). Stephen’s post was actually very informative and full of factual info!

That is why tennis forums exist – for folks like Stephen to educate folks like you. You should be grateful to Stephen instead criticizing him. I said ‘should’, but of course it is your prerogative to be obnoxious – completely allowed here.
Also, if you are easily annoyed by post such as Stephen’s above, may I respectfully suggest you slowly drift away from this “bad” blog towards the best website in the world (RF.com) where everyone thinks as one…

July 9th, 2016 at 3:44 pm

Travis, I thought Markus was referring to the original post, which called Court’s record a “pseudo-record.”

July 9th, 2016 at 3:48 pm

BBB,

Regardless, I kind of agree that Margaret’s record is a pseudo-record, when the facts stated by Stephen above are considered.

July 9th, 2016 at 3:56 pm

Court’s 24 slams may be a pseudo record but Graf’s 22 is not. Calendar Golden Slam with Martina and Chris Evert still in the mix. For this reason, I’m inclined to put Graf above Serena. At least for the moment. Graf was more dominant in her teens and 20’s. Serena more dominant in her 30’s. Some of Serena’s dominance late on her career is due to a lack of depth in the women’s game for the past few years. Graf played in a golden era of women’s tennis.

July 9th, 2016 at 4:59 pm

I also think Steffi was a better athlete than Serena.

July 9th, 2016 at 5:00 pm

SG1,
Don’t know about if she was a better athlete than Serena. There are different kinds of athleticism. But Steffi and those legs. She floated across the court with speed and grace, loved those legs ;), would have out run Serena on the court though for sure.

July 9th, 2016 at 5:21 pm

TB, if you weren’t such an ornery boor, I would have been offended. If you can read with any degree of comprehension, you would have picked up on what my message was all about. My only mistake was thinking that the articles written here represent true journalism instead of the trashy which they mostly are. That also explains why shallow people like you lap them up.

July 9th, 2016 at 6:33 pm

…trashy tabloid…

July 9th, 2016 at 6:34 pm

SG! at 4:59pm
“..Calendar Golden Slam with Martina and Chris Evert still in the mix…”
Chris was 15 years older than Steffi and Martina was 13 years older…They might still have been playing but……

July 9th, 2016 at 6:52 pm

A discussion of the athletic merits of Graf and Williams would be an interesting one. Graf having much more of a traditional female tennis players body type. As the saying goes, by all measures, a bumblebee should not be able to fly, but it does. And Serena should not be able to play championship level tennis for 17 years, or have any longevity with the stress her large body mass puts on her joints..but she does.

Graf – her two best attributes, IMO, were the speed she had and that forehand.
Serena – her serve, driven by an upper body strength 50-100% greater than a typical WTA player, and the intimidation factor.

July 9th, 2016 at 7:25 pm

Golden era of women’s tennis tarnished big time by the disposal of Monika Seles.

Graf would have never achieved the 22 slams if it was not for her crazy fan that attempted murder. Sorry, had to add this as it is simply true. One of those things that have to be put in to context. I am sure there will be those who will say that
ifs” do not count. There are no “ifs”. Monika was beating Graf regularly and was #1 in the world until that incident in Germany.

July 9th, 2016 at 8:48 pm

danica,
Good point. Very sad about that for Monica, if that incident never happened, who knows? Monica was her equal or better before all that.

July 9th, 2016 at 8:57 pm

Yes. It was indeed sad. I remember watching that on TV. Cannot imagine anyone getting hurt like that in a sport arena. I cringe when a player falls, I hate when injuries occur, but this was something unheard of. Too bad.

Steffi was amazing. Her father claimed she could run 100 m in 12 seconds sharp. Hard to believe but she was quick and strong. That forehand…!!!

July 9th, 2016 at 9:29 pm

What happened to Monica was a tragedy waiting to happen. If it hadn’t happened to her, it might have happened to the next big star who threatened to unseat a huge fan favorite. I can’t imagine how they could have such slack security.

July 9th, 2016 at 10:58 pm

@Skeezer….you ought to see my legs! Steffen wouldn’t have a chance!! Lol She was a good player…..my favorite back in the day!!

July 9th, 2016 at 11:27 pm

Oops…stupid spell check…Steffi….not Steffen…

July 9th, 2016 at 11:28 pm

BIGGGGG congrats to serena for her 22nd..that was AMAZING!And she’ll tie MG 24th in the future..and even BIGGGGGGGGG congrats for ANGELic for her stunning display of sportsmanship..when they displayed the same amazing affectionate hugs and warmth towards each other at AO..the world stunned by their action..sad feeling or frustration were pushed aside replaced by respect and joy for opponent..credit to both of them for this stunning sportsmanship..and i admire both of them even more..

Oppss..one more thing,congrats also to OKIEEEEE!!!for serena’s big win..VAMOS!!

July 10th, 2016 at 2:19 am

Amazing from Serena, what an athlete she is and Angie too! Like AM I admire them both very much.
However, my all time favourite has gotta be Martina.

July 10th, 2016 at 2:24 am

Have to agree with SG1, sorry Okie, its fantastic to see Serena get her 22 GS, but where is the decent competition, which is really lacking in the womens game ?, since Henin and Clijsters retired theres no real meaty challenge, Sharapova never was, Kvitovas too inconsistent, Aga cant live with that type of power, theres some pretty decent players on the WTA dont get me wrong, but someone really needs to step up to the challenge, still early days for Kerber and Mugaruza after their GS wins i suppose, so hopefully they will step up now, and give the WTA some much needed competition ….

July 10th, 2016 at 5:31 am

So with that in mind i would say Stefis 22 is better than Serenas, as the competition was better, great shame about Seles, same with Martina and Chris who had a really competitive rivalry ….

July 10th, 2016 at 5:41 am

Serena’s achievements seems too far ahead seen from the competitiveness perspective. Steffi was simply being owned by Monica Seles, similar to what Nadal has done to Federer. It was a shame to see her being robbed of her magnificent career by a bigot. Who knows, may be today Serena might have been equalling Seles’s record of 22 GS. Also mind that Venus Williams herself had been Serena’s tough competitor

July 10th, 2016 at 6:26 am

AM, love your post at 02.19 am btw. Second that.

July 10th, 2016 at 7:22 am

Thanks Dani..btw i’m also a BIG fan of yours..always loved read your fair and wonderful comments here..you and dave actually..

July 10th, 2016 at 7:26 am

AM, thanks, I am positively blushing now ;)

July 10th, 2016 at 7:58 am

No prob Dani,you deserve it and that is my honest compliment from across the pond..i just hope Dave have the guts to blush as well..

July 10th, 2016 at 8:39 am

As Willow stated, the absence of Seles for Graf is roughly equivalent to the early retirement of both Henin and Clijsters. Henin at her best would be a handful for any player from any era.

July 10th, 2016 at 4:12 pm

Well…that’s not exactly what Willow said but it’s what I think :). Mentally speaking, I think that Steffi, Monica and Chris Evert are all pretty much tied at No.1. Even Sharapvoa is way up there mentally. I think all of them were/are stronger than Serena between the ears.

July 10th, 2016 at 4:17 pm

Someone told me yesterday that Graf objected to Seles’ efforts to have a protected ranking when she came back from the injury. I don’t know if that’s true, but if it is, it’s a mark against Graf in my book.

I’m never persuaded by weak/strong era arguments. Too subjective. In any event, the opposition Graf faced in major finals was not always of the highest quality.

July 10th, 2016 at 4:24 pm

It’s not a mark against Graf…but she was wrong for thinking that Monica’s ranking should not be protected. Players at this level are fiercely competitive which can occasionally blind their judgment.

July 10th, 2016 at 4:53 pm

It’s a mark against her for me, SG1. If true. I can’t find any confirmation of it on the interwebs.

July 10th, 2016 at 4:59 pm

In the year she won the golden slam, she beat Evert in Australia, Zvereva at RG, Martina at Wimbledon and Sabatini at both the USO and Olympics. Zvereva is a soft one but she beat 9 time singles champion Martina N. at Wimbledon. That’s as tough a match up for Steffi as there can possibly be. Serena never a played a opponent of Martina’s caliber at Wimbledon. Her sister is the best one she ever played at Wimbledon…quite a few years ago.

July 10th, 2016 at 5:02 pm

It is unfair and totally wrong to vilify anybody based on hearsay. This seems to be where the thread of conversation is going about Seles’s protected ranking issue. Here is an article about it which shows that Graf was not against it. She was not even concerned about the ranking issue.

http://www.nytimes.com/1993/05/30/sports/tennis-seles-struggles-with-injury-and-wta-decision.html

July 10th, 2016 at 5:02 pm

Serena was full marks for the win yesterday. Not trying to take anything away from her. I just don’t think she’s the best ever at this moment. But can the argument be made? Sure. Her tennis portfolio is incredible and undeniable.

July 10th, 2016 at 5:08 pm

Actually, Markus, the article doesn’t say how she voted. There’s another article that says the only one who abstained was Sabbatini, and the others voted against preserving the ranking. But that doesn’t mean Graf voted, so to me it’s still unconfirmed one way or the other.

You seem a bit overwrought on this topic. Nobody is vilifying based on hearsay – we are discussing the implications with an explicit caveat that it’s not clear what Graf’s position was.

SG, you make a fine point, but there also counterpoints, which is why I think strong/weak era is a waste of time. Confirmation bias – people usually have a view as to who’s the best and then cherrypick the information that supports their argument.

July 10th, 2016 at 5:19 pm

Sorry, SG – I didn’t your most recent post before I posted mine.

I agree with you.

July 10th, 2016 at 5:24 pm

BBB…agreed.

July 10th, 2016 at 5:25 pm

If it is unconfirmed, then there is no reason to presume that she voted against it. Overwrought or not it is still not correct to vilify anybody based on presumptions.

At any rate, Seles never “owned” Graf is a misconception. Prior to the stabbing incident, their head to head record was 6-4 in Graf’s favor. They were tied in majors meetings almost all of Graf’s losses were in three sets while Monica lost easily in two sets to Graf in their 2 Wimbledon meetings. Graf had a lot of physical injuries and at one point skipped the Australian due to illness/injuries.

Their total head to head record is 10-5 for Graf.

July 10th, 2016 at 5:38 pm

BBB says:

“SG, you make a fine point, but there also counterpoints, which is why I think strong/weak era is a waste of time. Confirmation bias – people usually have a view as to who’s the best and then cherrypick the information that supports their argument.”

oh dear, hope CF1 doesn’t read that.
Of course, I completely agree.

July 10th, 2016 at 5:52 pm

It would have been very difficult for Seles to own Graf at the majors as the speedy USO and Wimbledon surfaces favored players with more athletic ability. Steffi would have likely owned Seles on grass and it’s also equally likely that Seles would have gotten the better of Graf on red clay. All the other surfaces would have been pretty a push…IMO.

July 10th, 2016 at 5:55 pm

LOL jalep. That’s the thing – I no more agree with strong/weak discussions when they’re used to support someone I like as when they’re used against someone I don’t.

SG, it’s interesting to me that both Seles and Bartoli are thin now that they’ve retired. (Bartoli looks like she may have taken a bit too far, actually). No time machine available, and maybe they wouldn’t have been as good at lower weights (Ivanovic?). But you wonder.

July 10th, 2016 at 6:22 pm

Can’t speak for Bartoli but dietary knowledge (gluten etc.) has evolved quite a bit since Seles played. She may have been a little thinner today. Nonetheless, she was a great player even with a few extra pounds. Tough as nails between the ears. The best pure competitor of her era. The female version of Rafa.

July 11th, 2016 at 12:55 pm